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Thread: Glendale park or hillier

  1. #61
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    stalingrad, you and your rent story.

    you basically believe the value of a house == (a fix multiple) of the rent.

    Is this simple formula correct ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    stalingrad, you and your rent story.

    you basically believe the value of a house == (a fix multiple) of the rent.

    Is this simple formula correct ?
    no no. every house/condo is different.

    but overall, the rental rate should reflect the cost of owning. if not, there is a bubble brewing.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    no no. every house/condo is different.

    but overall, the rental rate should reflect the cost of owning. if not, there is a bubble brewing.
    all along landed and luxury condo rental yield 2-3% average

    u wan high yield? mm lor.....

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    .....the landed has also been bubbling forever...........if according to the iron curtain guy......think the curtain is too heavy so views a bit obscured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    but overall, the rental rate should reflect the cost of owning. if not, there is a bubble brewing.
    that's where you got it wrong. you are valuing it at cost. like a consumable item.

    why do ppl pay xxx times over book value, or earning, for a company ?

    pty is valued as an asset not on cost, value of which depends on many, many factors. supply and demand. locality. desirability. etc. rental yield is just one factor that affects the demand.

    if you think US pty yield is so high, and the value is reasonable, why still no one buys US properties now ?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by danntbt
    .....its too presumptuous to say that he is showing off......unless he can ill afford the purchase...
    even if one can afford something, it is a virtue not to show off like the chinese from PRC. don't be noveau riche and crass by driving Porche or asking your friends to celebrate with you when you move into your $5 million bugalow that smells less than heavenly.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    that's where you got it wrong. you are valuing it at cost. like a consumable item.

    why do ppl pay xxx times over book value, or earning, for a company ?

    pty is valued as an asset not on cost, value of which depends on many, many factors. supply and demand. locality. desirability. etc. rental yield is just one factor that affects the demand.

    if you think US pty yield is so high, and the value is reasonable, why still no one buys US properties now ?
    I am. I am buying one in Seattle. US$500,000. 2,000 sqf in living space with a 10,000 sqf yard. we are paying cash. we will sell in due course.

    to answer your question, if the rental yield is low, the assets has no value. I am not talking about cost alone. rental is a measure of value. if rental is lower, then the cost is to high. or bubble is brewing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    rental is a measure of value.
    alamak u never read my post. there are more factors affecting the "value". read the post above.

    give u a simple example. one factor is supply and demand. 1000 ppl wants to live near this wonderful park. there is only 1 house for sale. what do you think the "value" of this house will be ?

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    in stock you have P/E ratio but very high PE like Apple also ppl buy like crazy, in properties you have price /annual rental income ratio ... very high could be bubble but it also depends on other factors like amk has said

    Japan Price/annual income ratio reached 60 b4 bubble bursting ... SG is at most at 20+ only

    Jim Rogers sold his NY apartment, stalingard bought Seattle, who will have a last laugh
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    alamak u never read my post. there are more factors affecting the "value". read the post above.

    give u a simple example. one factor is supply and demand. 1000 ppl wants to live near this wonderful park. there is only 1 house for sale. what do you think the "value" of this house will be ?
    east cannot meet west as theyre brought up in different environment and thus have different perspective.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    alamak u never read my post. there are more factors affecting the "value". read the post above.

    give u a simple example. one factor is supply and demand. 1000 ppl wants to live near this wonderful park. there is only 1 house for sale. what do you think the "value" of this house will be ?
    but how come these 1000 people are unwilling to rent? Are they all stupid or something?

  12. #72
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    Oh no no! This is the first time I heard comments saying housing loan rates in US and Singapore are the same!
    Tell us, what are the 30 year mortgage rates in US and SG now?
    Tell us, what are the range of 30 year mortgage rates for the past 20 years in US and SG? Please check your facts first before somebody label you as xxxx!
    Who cares about absolute rental yield? If every investors care, then US property prices should be shooting through the roof and not still dropping....

    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    Mas webiste shows, that 10 year bond rate is 1.66%. See https://secure.sgs.gov.sg/fdanet/Sgs...suePrices.aspx

    CNBC shows that 10 bond rate in the US is 1.9%. See http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839203/site/14081545/

    Long term mortgage rates are tied to government bond rates. thus, long term housing loan rates in the US and Singapore are about the same.

    thus, there is no reason for Singaore's rental rate to be lower than that of the US, except for, of course, the housing bubble in Singapore.

    when the bubble burst, you guys will laugh all the way to your grave.

    Don't refute me by quoting the current housing loan rates, which are short term in nature and therefore have no meaning for long term investors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    Mas webiste shows, that 10 year bond rate is 1.66%. See https://secure.sgs.gov.sg/fdanet/Sgs...suePrices.aspx

    CNBC shows that 10 bond rate in the US is 1.9%. See http://www.cnbc.com/id/15839203/site/14081545/

    Long term mortgage rates are tied to government bond rates. thus, long term housing loan rates in the US and Singapore are about the same.

    thus, there is no reason for Singaore's rental rate to be lower than that of the US, except for, of course, the housing bubble in Singapore.

    when the bubble burst, you guys will laugh all the way to your grave.

    Don't refute me by quoting the current housing loan rates, which are short term in nature and therefore have no meaning for long term investors.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Oh no no! This is the first time I heard comments saying housing loan rates in US and Singapore are the same!
    Tell us, what are the 30 year mortgage rates in US and SG now?
    Tell us, what are the range of 30 year mortgage rates for the past 20 years in US and SG? Please check your facts first before somebody label you as xxxx!
    Who cares about absolute rental yield? If every investors care, then US property prices should be shooting through the roof and not still dropping....
    teddy, don't be stupid. the housing loan rates you are paying now are short term, and they can go up any time. if you need fixed rates for 10 or 30 years, the rates would be about the same as those in the US. get it?

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    Hmm lower manhantten 6% yield. Around 60 sqm.
    http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/N.../Rental-Yields
    SG Icon around 3% yield. Around 60 sqm.
    Affordable means small

  16. #76
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    if I am stupid enough to know that 30 year mortgage rates in US is between 4.x-10% for past 10 years while for SG is between 0.9-5.x% and you don't, that makes you idiotic moron?
    And you asking people to buy US properties? You don't know that US mortgage rate is at lowest ever of 4.x% now & that can only be temporary & it will definitely go to norm of 8.x% when US Econ recovers?


    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    teddy, don't be stupid. the housing loan rates you are paying now are short term, and they can go up any time. if you need fixed rates for 10 or 30 years, the rates would be about the same as those in the US. get it?
    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Oh no no! This is the first time I heard comments saying housing loan rates in US and Singapore are the same!
    Tell us, what are the 30 year mortgage rates in US and SG now?
    Tell us, what are the range of 30 year mortgage rates for the past 20 years in US and SG? Please check your facts first before somebody label you as xxxx!

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjcai
    Hmm lower manhantten 6% yield. Around 60 sqm.
    http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/N.../Rental-Yields
    SG Icon around 3% yield. Around 60 sqm.
    I think it is the government and the financial industry's fault that singaporeans think that housing loan rates are low and will stay low. if the banks offer 30 year fixed mortgage rates in Singapore, they would be at least 4% per year. then, singaporeans would wise up and see that rental yield of 3% or even 2% are totally unacceptable.

    then the property craze will be over. and no one will ever pay 1000 psf at punggol, or is it pundog.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    if I am stupid enough to know that 30 year mortgage rates in US is between 4.x-10% for past 10 years while for SG is between 0.9-5.x% and you don't, that makes you idiotic moron?
    And you asking people to buy US properties? You don't know that US mortgage rate is at lowest ever of 4.x% now & that can only be temporary & it will definitely go to norm of 8.x% when US Econ recovers?
    no they will not go up. they are fixed for 30 years. that is why we call it fixed rate. get it?

  19. #79
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    Who wants such long fixed rate at super high rates?
    Few in Singapore will want to lock to such stupid high rates for 30 years except the idiotic morons. Who know, rates may fall further for such fixed rates if they have them in SG?
    If SG have such fixed rates, rental will have no choice but to jack up to >6% to compensate for the costs! SG landlords will understand that they are stupid to rental at such low yields!

    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    no they will not go up. they are fixed for 30 years. that is why we call it fixed rate. get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Who wants such long fixed rate at super high rates?
    Few in Singapore will want to lock to such stupid high rates for 30 years except the idiotic morons. Who know, rates may fall further for such fixed rates if they have them in SG?
    If SG have such fixed rates, rental will have no choice but to jack up to >6% to compensate for the costs! SG landlords will understand that they are stupid to rental at such low yields!
    but if you borrow at short term rates, you will be burnt badly if rates suddenly shoot up. believe me short rates can shoot up very quickly. just look at the blowout of the market in 1979 when paul volcker was appointed the chair of the feds.

    what will cause rates to shoot up. a crisis. a crisis can happen in any country. I am not being fear mongering. in 30 years, US has had at least 5 crises. this can happen in any country.

  21. #81
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    Ha ha ha. Buyers so stupid don't know what are historical range of rates meh? SG max 5.x% so far only lah, but by then rental yield + capital appreciation also up to compensate the higher rate.
    Crisis? Nowsadays best solution by gov is to flood market with cash, so interest rate sure drop like stone to <1%! You think we don't know hah?

    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    but if you borrow at short term rates, you will be burnt badly if rates suddenly shoot up. believe me short rates can shoot up very quickly. just look at the blowout of the market in 1979 when paul volcker was appointed the chair of the feds.

    what will cause rates to shoot up. a crisis. a crisis can happen in any country. I am not being fear mongering. in 30 years, US has had at least 5 crises. this can happen in any country.

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    My main worry for overseas ppty is the collection of rent......will tenants play punk? Wats the tenancy laws over there?

    I noe some european countries, landlords vy hard to chase out tenants even if they dun pay....

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    I think it is the government and the financial industry's fault that singaporeans think that housing loan rates are low and will stay low. if the banks offer 30 year fixed mortgage rates in Singapore, they would be at least 4% per year. then, singaporeans would wise up and see that rental yield of 3% or even 2% are totally unacceptable.

    then the property craze will be over. and no one will ever pay 1000 psf at punggol, or is it pundog.
    But don't forget NYC class 1 tax 0.18 of 6% works out to get rental yield after tax of 6 - 1.x% = 4.xx%. SG rental yield of 10% property tax works out to be 2.7%.. Yes I agree on your side that the rental yield must be greater than the interest on loans.

    On another side, gross rental yields of HDB are actually pretty high nowadays. Rental demand is there, can be 4-5% easily for 4 roomer. So is fully paid HDB too cheap and condos too bubbly. My stance is still semi bear, observing PR and FT influx and interest rates till 2015.

    http://www.joneslanglasallesites.com...dential-market
    Affordable means small

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    but how come these 1000 people are unwilling to rent? Are they all stupid or something?
    They are not stupid. We'd been through this already : our value set is different from ppl like you. Many ang mos live for the day only. Whereas most Asians have a value system that believes assets should be accumulated and passed to the next generation. In the US renting for life is a perfectly acceptable idea. In Asian context, home ownership is a matter of course. That is why ppl like you cannot escape the whole idea of "value of house is the rent". For you living in a pty is a cost, you are trying the best way to minimize the cost.

    I dun call you idiot or anything. But you should try to appreciate why Asians are generally savers not spenders, and we value home ownership, unlike most of the Americans. This is why pty is a very location specific business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    They are not stupid. We'd been through this already : our value set is different from ppl like you. Many ang mos live for the day only. Whereas most Asians have a value system that believes assets should be accumulated and passed to the next generation. In the US renting for life is a perfectly acceptable idea. In Asian context, home ownership is a matter of course. That is why ppl like you cannot escape the whole idea of "value of house is the rent". For you living in a pty is a cost, you are trying the best way to minimize the cost.

    I dun call you idiot or anything. But you should try to appreciate why Asians are generally savers not spenders, and we value home ownership, unlike most of the Americans. This is why pty is a very location specific business.
    Well said. So what my pty $ drop now, I still own the pty, and then when the $ go up again, I can consider sell or not. For the time being, just take it as a saving loh. Am I stupid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    but if you borrow at short term rates, you will be burnt badly if rates suddenly shoot up. believe me short rates can shoot up very quickly. just look at the blowout of the market in 1979 when paul volcker was appointed the chair of the feds.

    what will cause rates to shoot up. a crisis. a crisis can happen in any country. I am not being fear mongering. in 30 years, US has had at least 5 crises. this can happen in any country.
    .....so sit on your USD$500K lot why bother to buy if things do not look good....u can be cash king when the time comes...

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    odd shape living and bed rooms too? hmmm... not too good? anyone know which block/unit has good squarish shapes ones?!

    Quote Originally Posted by danntbt
    Actually browsing through the units available at Glendale, the layout not very good, many odd-shaped kitchens and balconies....did not like what I see in terms of the space and layout, or even views.....cheaper it may be, but to live long term is another thing....not sure about Hillier though, have not scrutinize.....

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    How much ROI from carabelle already?
    Affordable means small

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    Anyone know if there is any internet site that does not require subscription and that show caveat together with the unit number

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    a friend of mine bought a bungalow for a cool $5 million recently. I really could not understand the purchase, other than to show off his wealth. it is dark and dank, and it even smells bad. I would not stay there even for one day.
    you have friends??

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