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Thread: Smaller flats have not lowered quality of life: HDB CEO

  1. #1
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    Default Smaller flats have not lowered quality of life: HDB CEO

    With comments like that, this CEO is encouraging couples to have fewer babies

    http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore...-life--HDB-CEO

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    if ceo himself staying in 3rm flat then he can talk...

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    That jacket she is wearing, I also got !
    Can wear both ways, ie turn inside out and you get a different print.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    That jacket she is wearing, I also got !
    Can wear both ways, ie turn inside out and you get a different print.
    alamak, another turncoat .

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    Here is the jacket......

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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Here is the jacket......
    look like ah soh wor....opss....

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    look like ah soh wor....opss....
    Depends on who wears it.....
    IMHO, I think it is a bit too young on her.
    Btw it is cheap one, which means to show she is frugal.
    Then I think the bag she was carrying in the picture, from what i remembered in the straits times picture the last time, I think it is a Coach bag.

    Also not very expensive.
    Shows that she does not splurge on expensive stuff.

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    So u also ceo or coe material?





    B]
    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Here is the jacket......

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobrainer32007
    So u also ceo or coe material?





    B]
    Jacket very cheap one....i got it at half price during a sale.
    No, I not CEO, but I want COE leh.

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    I think the size is not the decider for having more babies. it's true that the older generation have squeezed more people in a 3 room flat.

    it's when both husband and wife need to go out and be economically productive and come home all tired, that's the quality of life that's being traded off, and having children would be much harder when you don't have the mood nor energy for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kane
    I think the size is not the decider for having more babies. it's true that the older generation have squeezed more people in a 3 room flat.

    it's when both husband and wife need to go out and be economically productive and come home all tired, that's the quality of life that's being traded off, and having children would be much harder when you don't have the mood nor energy for it.
    rising expectations adds to it as well.....poorer countries birth rate very healthy.....

    Last time parents dun mind having babies as long their salary enuff to feed the whole family and practically not much savings left every mth end.....but not the case now.....yng couples wants to have regular savings.....took up bigger debts once they started work......buy hse....buy car......

    In the 80s, yng couples will stay wif parent first and still make babies....den after 5-10yrs later den buy own hse and move out......

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    i'm not so sure about that, if you took today's hdb prices, set a 10 year repayment schedule (which was the norm back then), then you'd probably find one income cannot manage the load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kane
    i'm not so sure about that, if you took today's hdb prices, set a 10 year repayment schedule (which was the norm back then), then you'd probably find one income cannot manage the load.
    high hdb px is conveniently being used as an excuse over these few yrs for having low birth rate

    Remember hdb px only shoots up in early 07 but our birth rate haf been declining for more den a decade

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    Quote Originally Posted by radha08
    if ceo himself staying in 3rm flat then he can talk...
    Using figures to confuse people lah.
    It's not the number of people living in the house, it's the size of the bedrooms, living and kitchen.

    MBT commented about hdb size some years back that although the size of flat is smaller but with creative interior design you can make full use of the space and the room can looks spacious.
    Like that also can?

    So it mean that inorder to make a small living room looks bigger, install mirror on the wall.
    And becasue the living room is smaller, buy smaller sofa. Cannot put 3 seaters, buy 2 seaters.
    Becasue the bedroom is smaller, don't buy king size bed. Buy queen size instead.


    Hmm.. All these got nothing to do with quality?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PN
    Using figures to confuse people lah.
    It's not the number of people living in the house, it's the size of the bedrooms, living and kitchen.

    MBT commented about hdb size some years back that although the size of flat is smaller but with creative interior design you can make full use of the space and the room can looks spacious.
    Like that also can?

    So it mean that inorder to make a small living room looks bigger, install mirror on the wall.
    And becasue the living room is smaller, buy smaller sofa. Cannot put 3 seaters, buy 2 seaters.
    Becasue the bedroom is smaller, don't buy king size bed. Buy queen size instead.


    Hmm.. All these got nothing to do with quality?
    comparing with full time hsewife in the earlier days with modern wives now.....whose life is better?

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    In the old days, we may have more people in our flats, but there were less people outside......

    IMHO, in order to be comfortable, each member of the family should have a room to himself/ herself which should be large enough to put a bed, a study table and wardrobe.
    In that way, you have private space to yourself, which is extremely important to me.

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    Babyopolis

    Money or Babies – You can't have both

    Since its birth as a nation in 1965, the government of Singapore has focused on ensuring broad-based economic prosperity and, when compared to most countries, has succeeded spectacularly. They had the foresight and long-range planning discipline to reclaim land from the sea, build highways, airports, schools, hospitals, underground subways and entire communities long before they were needed.

    Over 96% of Singaporeans are literate1, GDP is among the highest in the world2, infant mortality is the lowest globally3, and low tax rates allow people and corporations to keep most of what they earn. Despite extreme automobile taxes and the island's cautious maximum speed limit of 90 km/hr, the roads are surprisingly full of exotic supercars that can accelerate from zero to 100km/hr in less than 4 seconds. Singapore has the highest proportion of millionaires globally (15.5% of households) beating out Switzerland, Qatar, Hong Kong, Kuwait and the U.A.E.4 Eighty-seven percent of residents own their homes.5


    A country can have economic prosperity or baby prosperity, but not both. This is a relatively new phenomenon in the historic perspective of the world. Once the per capita GDP of a country exceeds USD$18,000, the fertility rate (babies per woman in a lifetime) drops below 2.1, the level needed to replenish the population. And if your baby bounty is higher than 2.8, your GDP is less than $6,000. There are only two exceptions6.

    "We Begin With the Future"

    In a preface to an interview with Lee Kuan Yew, the founder of modern Singapore, Charlie Rose said "we begin with the future, which has always been his [LKY's] subject."7 While many global leaders have been unable to see past their noses, Lee Kuan Yew has indeed been a progressive visionary.

    But one aspect of the future was unforeseeable. In the mid 1970s, fertility rates in most developed countries, including Europe, North America, Singapore and Japan, fell below replacement level for the first time. This was the beginning of what would lead to shrinking populations of economically developed countries early in the 21st century. No government expected fertility rates to fall below replacement level and stay there. There was simply no precedent (save perhaps ancient Rome).

    We now know that increased urbanization & rapid economic growth leads to lower fertility. No country has been able to escape this eventuality. Governments that pursued policies of increased birth control and reduced fertility may have accelerated the fertility decline, but they had a negligible impact on the ultimate result.

    In any heavily urbanized and economically advancing country, the momentum of falling fertility becomes almost impossible to arrest. As evidenced by Taipei (0.9), Beijing (0.67) and Hong Kong (0.9), Asian urban fertility does not stop falling until women bear an average of less than one baby during their lifetimes9.

    GDP is a function of people and productivity and future Singaporeans are missing. The logarithmic nature of Singapore's 1.15 per woman fertility rate suggests that in just three generations, the number of babies born will fall to 19% of current levels if the fertility rate remains constant. (Assume 100 people; 50 men and 50 women. A fertility rate of 1.15 leads to 57.5 babies for generation one, 33 babies for generation two and just 19 babies for generation three).13


    Planting the Seeds

    A story is told that Oxford University's great hall roof was faced with rot in the 16th century. Fortunately, "the founder of the college foresaw this event 500 years ago and planted a spinney of oaks to provide replacement timbers when needed." Said the head woodsman, with pragmatic foresight; "We will have to fell the trees now and of course plant more in case this happens again during the next 500 years."8

    Singapore, and most Western countries, didn't realize they were facing the human equivalent of deforestation. By neglecting to plant seeds for the future, they must now rely on foreign imports to provide the missing foundations for the productivity of the country.

    When asked by Charlie Rose if he was worried about the declining birth rate, the former Prime Minister said, "Nothing can be done about it. It's a lifestyle change. The women are educated, they are completely independent [and] they don't marry until they are in their late/mid thirties."10

    Mind the Gap

    It is relatively simple to calculate how many births per year are required to replace the resident population. As a rule of thumb, take total resident population and divide by 70% of life expectancy. For example, 3.8 million residents divided by 70% of 80 years = 68,000 babies per year. There were 38,000 births in 20105. The production gap of 30,000 babies must be closed by immigration or increased fertility. To date, immigration has been the answer.

    The following chart shows how the resident population of Singapore has increased at a low rate of 1.6% per year since 1971 (right hand side), while the non-resident population has expanded at a rate of 8% per year. If these rates of growth continue for another 18 years, Singapore's population will swell to 10 million and non-residents will outnumber residents.


    Making Babies

    Let's look at this fertility problem as a well educated and highly paid technocrat might. Several European countries have recently succeeded in arresting the trend of lower fertility that began in the late 1800s. Fertility rates as low as 1.3 babies per woman have jumped back up to almost 2.0 in parts of Europe over the past decade.

    Longer maternity leave for mothers, paternity leave for fathers and day care centers that are ubiquitous and well-staffed all support higher fertility. Reports suggest that babies who are breast-fed for the first six months of their lives tend to be smarter and have better eyesight and stronger immune systems than their formula-fed peers11. Not just more babies – healthier babies.

    But better care for babies probably contributes a maximum of 0.2 to the higher fertility rate. The bulk of the increase comes from immigrants. In France, first generation immigrants have an average of over three babies per woman and the second generation manufactures close to 2.5 babies.

    Israel has successfully increased fertility rates. They recognize that their existence as a nation depends on a strong and growing population and have encouraged both massive immigration (with citizenship effective the day of arrival) and fertility. The Haredim, or ultra-Orthodox Jews, qualify for military exemption by engaging in full-time study, and spend their lives learning and reproducing. They are supported by government social assistance. The women have an average of nine babies and this subset now accounts for 15% of the population12.

    Babyopolis – Two Options

    Sentosa, an entertainment island worked. Jurong Island, a petroleum and petrochemical hub worked. Fusionopolis and Biopolis seem to be taking off. Is it time for Babyopolis?

    The first option is to build an island to produce babies. For the inhabiting couples, fund education, housing, child day care, medical care, grant military exemption and pay a cash bonus of $200,000 for every baby in excess of two. Target production = 70,000 babies per year, double the current rate. Expected cost is SGD 7-10 billion per year. Singapore has the financial reserves, which can either be used to buy shares in failing foreign banks or to invest in future Singaporeans. In 30 to 40 years, Singapore would be the only Asian country with an expanding, educated and youthful population. A few Nobel laureates or ping pong champions may lay in wait. Talk about a strategic advantage! What's the biggest potential problem? Babyopolis residents become soft, unproductive and lack entrepreneurial drive due to a pampered life and government largess.

    The second option is to encourage a robust, diversified and international population of the best, brightest and most inventive from around the globe. From a cost perspective, buying beats building (immigrants would be cheaper than home-grown). The downside is that the native Singaporean population would die out and their iconic patois, Singlish, would be lost. The resulting international melting pot would dilute the Singaporean identity.




    Sources:
    1. Literacy. Department of Statistics, Singapore, 2010 data.
      http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/keyind.html#litedu
    2. 6th highest globally in terms of GDP per capita, PPP (constant 2005 international $) as of 2009 according to the UN World Development Indicators 2010 revision.
    3. Mortality rate under 5 years old per 1,000 for countries with a population of at least one million according to UN World Development Indicators 2010 revision.
    4. Bloomberg Businessweek, 26 June 2011
      http://images.businessweek.com/slideshows/20110602/twenty-countries-with-the-highest-proportion-of-millionaires/
    5. Department of Statistics Singapore. http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/keyind.html
    6. UN World Development Indicators 2011 revision. Data as of 2009. Includes only countries with populations in excess of 4 million people.
    7. Charlie Rose Interview with Lee Kuan Yew rebroadcast on 20 May 2011.
      http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11681
    8. Koenig, Chris. The Oxford Times, Home-grown wood, 15 October 2009,
      http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/business/profiles/4683402.Home_grown_wood/
    9. City Fertility rates: Taiwan http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14525525, Beijing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...fertility_rate , Hong Kong (2003 data) http://www.statistics.gov.hk/publica...0XXXXB0100.pdf
    10. Charlie Rose Interview with Lee Kuan Yew rebroadcast on 20 May 2011.
      http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11681
    11. ABC News Medical Unit. 20 Dec 2010.
      http://abcnews.go.com/Health/w_ParentingResource/breastfed-babies-smarter/story?id=12422801
    12. Senor, Dan and Singer, Saul. Start-UP Nation. The Story of Israel's Economic Miracle. Twelve 2009.
    13. Log of Low Fertility

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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    In the old days, we may have more people in our flats, but there were less people outside......

    IMHO, in order to be comfortable, each member of the family should have a room to himself/ herself which should be large enough to put a bed, a study table and wardrobe.
    In that way, you have private space to yourself, which is extremely important to me.
    i dun haf the luxury of having my own room till mid 20s

    I just lie mattress on the living rm and sleep liao.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    i dun haf the luxury of having my own room till mid 20s

    I just lie mattress on the living rm and sleep liao.....
    Now you have a few units to choose to sleep in...

    All part of the plan

    Well done

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    At 22, I was still sleeping in the living room with no door for privacy....

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    i dun haf the luxury of having my own room till mid 20s

    I just lie mattress on the living rm and sleep liao.....
    thought lie on hard surface is good for your problematic back .

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    thought lie on hard surface is good for your problematic back .
    all thanks to NS

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    all thanks to NS
    Were you then downgraded?

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    She very funny in her definition that area per occupant = quality of life. Last time flats don't have a/c ledge. I remember the a/c are all built inside the house. No 3 in 1 compressors, etc. Now got big big a/c ledges. Furthermore, each house has basic requirements like dining table, TV console, Refrigerator, kitchen cabinets, beds, etc.

    Also, has she seen the DBSS at Tampines, City View and Simei with 5 room area of 105 sqm to 107 sqm? If a 121 sqm unit has 40 sqm used up on these basic requirements, a 110 sqm unit also will use up about 40 sqm plus another 5 sqm of a/c ledge. So in actual calculation, 81 sqm/4.9 = 16.5 sqm/occupant in the past vs now 65 (use 110 - 45 sqm)/3.5 = 18.6 sqm/occupant is more accurate. In short, there is not much difference between space per occupant but the price of each unit has rose faster than the income of each household. Nice picture she painted but slightly flawed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Were you then downgraded?
    no longer impt....

    Scars can nvr be healed

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    She very funny in her definition that area per occupant = quality of life. Last time flats don't have a/c ledge. I remember the a/c are all built inside the house. No 3 in 1 compressors, etc. Now got big big a/c ledges. Furthermore, each house has basic requirements like dining table, TV console, Refrigerator, kitchen cabinets, beds, etc.

    Also, has she seen the DBSS at Tampines, City View and Simei with 5 room area of 105 sqm to 107 sqm? If a 121 sqm unit has 40 sqm used up on these basic requirements, a 110 sqm unit also will use up about 40 sqm plus another 5 sqm of a/c ledge. So in actual calculation, 81 sqm/4.9 = 16.5 sqm/occupant in the past vs now 65 (use 110 - 45 sqm)/3.5 = 18.6 sqm/occupant is more accurate. In short, there is not much difference between space per occupant but the price of each unit has rose faster than the income of each household. Nice picture she painted but slightly flawed...
    Actually wat she says make some sense but she forget tat nowadays policeman dun wear shorts liao....whahahaha

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    this is call talk cock, learn from her boss one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by august
    this is call talk cock, learn from her boss one...
    Like boss, like subordinate!

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    i dun haf the luxury of having my own room till mid 20s

    I just lie mattress on the living rm and sleep liao.....

    You are luckier than me. I had my own room only when I got married. Nowadays youngers are so lucky, can have their own bedroom at a younger age.

    I stayed in a rented 2 bedroom type of HDB. I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters + 2 of my cousins came from Indonesia and stayed with us. Later all of them moved out after married, except my elder's brother & his wife (together with his 2 children) stayed with us. We let them had the main bedroom but our cupboards were inside their bedroom because we had no place to put. My father build a partition at the living hall and put a double-decker bed. I slept on top while my mother slept below. My father laid a mattress and slept at the living hall. But at that time, I never thought that it was cramped at all, maybe I was brought up in such an environment and get used to that type of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irisng
    You are luckier than me. I had my own room only when I got married. Nowadays youngers are so lucky, can have their own bedroom at a younger age.

    I stayed in a rented 2 bedroom type of HDB. I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters + 2 of my cousins came from Indonesia and stayed with us. Later all of them moved out after married, except my elder's brother & his wife (together with his 2 children) stayed with us. We let them had the main bedroom but our cupboards were inside their bedroom because we had no place to put. My father build a partition at the living hall and put a double-decker bed. I slept on top while my mother slept below. My father laid a mattress and slept at the living hall. But at that time, I never thought that it was cramped at all, maybe I was brought up in such an environment and get used to that type of life.
    tats y we r more acceptable to MMs? Lol!

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