Bring in FT to help aging population?

[westman]

李光耀公共政策学院七周年对话
李光耀：可先尝试每年引入2万5000移民

source: http://www.zaobao.com.sg/sp/sp110915_006.shtml

每年引进6万名外来移民以补充我国人口的做法，国人恐怕消化不来。前内阁资政李光耀提出，我国可先尝试每年引入2万至2万5000名外来移民，再随着人口的老龄化作出相应调整。

　　他昨天首次以李光耀公共政策学院卓越院士的身份，出席庆祝学院成立七周年的对话会。他说，政策研究院日前公布的调查结果让人意识到，我国每年需要6万名移民来替代居民人口的增长，但这是新加坡人觉得难以消化的。
　　他相信随着人口老龄化，导致更多人需要外来者提供医疗等服务时，国人将对外来移民改观。
　　“或许开始时，引进外来移民的人数可以是2万至2万5000名。随着人口老龄化，民众意识到没有足够的人在确保经济增长的同时，又要照顾老年人，大家或许更能接受引入更多移民的做法。”
　　这是李光耀在一个多星期内，两次针对人口政策的提问发表看法。他上星期一同南洋理工大学的学生对话时，同样引述政策研究院的数据说，新加坡每年须引进6万人，才能维持劳动队伍的活力并推动经济增长，但这是个“政治上消化不来”的数字。 　　按照这项研究，即使我国能提高生育率，只要不引进新移民，我国人口还是会萎缩。但假设我国每年引入6万人，总居民人口到了2050年预计可达676万人，几乎是2005年的一倍。


After reading above news, my wife asked me the following:

"Dear, how will FT help both of us ah? Are they going to give us monthly allowance izzit? In addition, they will pay for our hospitalisation bill when both of us get old? If not, what does government means "helps"?

I'm speechless and wonder anyone here can help advicing what does "helps" means?

[gn108]

'Help' in the sense statistically we have a more balanced demographic profile - at least temporarily.

Also 'help' in the sense more working adults means more taxes collected (Income, Property, GST) - hence the desire to cramp more and more into the same amount of space. It's the Singapore Inc way. A portion of these will of course be used for the aged - the rest tucked away for our Reserves.

The root problem is not addressed though and I reckon primarily there is none and secondarily, collecting more taxes is more preferred over raising fertility through the native population.

李光耀公共政策学院七周年对话

李光耀：可先尝试每年引入2万5000移民

source: http://www.zaobao.com.sg/sp/sp110915_006.shtml

每年引进6万名外来移民以补充我国人口的做法，国人恐怕消化不来。前内阁资政李光耀提出，我国可先尝试每年引入2万至2万5000名外来移民，再随着人口的老龄化作出相应调整。

　　他昨天首次以李光耀公共政策学院卓越院士的身份，出席庆祝学院成立七周年的对话会。他说，政策研究院日前公布的调查结果让人意识到，我国每年需要6万名移民来替代居民人口的增长，但这是新加坡人觉得难以消化的。
　　他相信随着人口老龄化，导致更多人需要外来者提供医疗等服务时，国人将对外来移民改观。
　　“或许开始时，引进外来移民的人数可以是2万至2万5000名。随着人口老龄化，民众意识到没有足够的人在确保经济增长的同时，又要照顾老年人，大家或许更能接受引入更多移民的做法。”
　　这是李光耀在一个多星期内，两次针对人口政策的提问发表看法。他上星期一同南洋理工大学的学生对话时，同样引述政策研究院的数据说，新加坡每年须引进6万人，才能维持劳动队伍的活力并推动经济增长，但这是个“政治上消化不来”的数字。 　　按照这项研究，即使我国能提高生育率，只要不引进新移民，我国人口还是会萎缩。但假设我国每年引入6万人，总居民人口到了2050年预计可达676万人，几乎是2005年的一倍。


After reading above news, my wife asked me the following:

"Dear, how will FT help both of us ah? Are they going to give us monthly allowance izzit? In addition, they will pay for our hospitalisation bill when both of us get old? If not, what does government means "helps"?

I'm speechless and wonder anyone here can help advicing what does "helps" means?

[westman]

'Help' in the sense statistically we have a more balanced demographic profile - at least temporarily.

Also 'help' in the sense more working adults means more taxes collected (Income, Property, GST) - hence the desire to cramp more and more into the same amount of space. It's the Singapore Inc way. A portion of these will of course be used for the aged - the rest tucked away for our Reserves.

The root problem is not addressed though and I reckon primarily there is none and secondarily, collecting more taxes is more preferred over raising fertility through the native population.

So, how will these "helps" helps old Singaporeans?

[gn108]

Re-read my post ...a portion of the enlarged tax net will co-finance the aged (subsidy of related services/health/hospice/out-patient/etc)

But really, it's not a solution of the root issue.
Perhaps at wits end, no solution for that so take this route and well, the by-product is revenue generating rather than subsidy-sucking.

So, how will these "helps" helps old Singaporeans?

[wenqing]

Re-read my post ...a portion of the enlarged tax net will co-finance the aged (subsidy of related services/health/hospice/out-patient/etc)

But really, it's not a solution of the root issue.
Perhaps at wits end, no solution for that so take this route and well, the by-product is revenue generating rather than subsidy-sucking.

1970s and 1980s, with no Great Foreign Influx, PAP spend more on health subsidies. Those times no need Private Medishield Plans.

But ironically 1990s -2010s when Great Foreign Influx came, PAP spent lesser and lesser on health subsidies.
Now,Singaporeans with no Private Medishield plans are at huge risk of bankruptcy if a major illness or months of hospital stay strike them.

Khaw Boon Wan as Health Minister once proclaimed loudly that under him, Government spent only 1% of GDP on Health Care.

There is a shift to get Singaporeans to pay more themselves and rely less on the government in healthcare expenses.

This explains why more and more daughters are prostituting themselves to pay for their parents healthcare just like in the TV dramas. You proud of this ??

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2011/03/...thout-answers/


Healthcare subsidies: Reply without answers?


Posted by theonlinecitizen on March 7, 2011


by Leong Sze Hian




I refer to the article “More uses for Medisave, greater subsidies”(Today, Mar 5), the Ministry of Health’s (MOH) advertorial “Healthcare madeaffordable” (Sunday Times and Zao Bao, Mar 6) and MOH’s response which is on its web site, to mediaqueries about the increase in Class C wards’ hospitalisation bills.

The former states that :

“Wider Medisave coverage, a biggerMedifund budget and a doubling of the Medication Assistance Fund to pay forexpensive drugs. These were part of several measures Health Minister Khaw BoonWan announced on Friday to keep healthcare costs affordable”.

The Health Minister went on to claimthat since March last year, Singaporeans have been able to use their funds fornon-urgent treatments overseas. Since then, only 58 patients have used it foroverseas treatment, withdrawing S$125,000 in total. The low utilisation“signals confidence in Singapore’s healthcare system”, he added.

The low utilisation may be due tothe issue that Medishield and all the CPF-approved private insurers’ medicalinsurance plans do not cover overseas treatment. So, why would anyone choose tobe treated overseas at perhaps less than half the cost compared to Singapore,when his or her insurance does not cover the medical fees?

Patients ask for it?

The MOH’s response that manysubsidised patients are now well-read and often come with internet printoutsabout alternative treatment options, does not answer the question raised as towhether non-subsidised drugs and implants are in the treatment guidelines ofhospitals, which doctors are duty-bound to inform their patients.

Most Class C patients not poor?

As to more than 42 per cent of alladmissions to restructured hospitals opting for Class C wards, with manyclearly not from low-income families, the reason why many Singaporeans may beopting for Class C may be the fear that only about one per cent of those whoapply for down-grading to a lower class ward were successful.

Instead of just citing the averagehousehold income vis-a-vis the average Class C bill size as evidence that ClassC wards are highly affordable, we should also look at the lower-incomestatistics.

In this connection, the bottom andsecond decile of employed households had an average monthly income perhousehold member of only $354 and $675, respectively in 2010, and there are400,100 residents earning $1,200 or less, about 1 in 8 resident workers earnless than $1,000, 64,400 unemployed and 10,900 discouraged unemployed.

More non-subsidised drugs?

I think the question as to whetherthe number and proportion of non-subsidised items in Class C has beenincreasing over the years, remains unanswered.

According to the MOH’s web site:

“In 2008, Singapore spent aboutS$10.2 billion or 3.9% of GDP on healthcare. Out of this the Governmentexpended S$2.7 billion or 1.0% of GDP on health services”.

According to the Budget, our publichealthcare spending dropped by 0.6 per cent to remain at about one per cent ofGDP, which is one of the lowest in the world.

Recently, the Health Minister wroteon his blog “Confronting hard truths” (Mar 6):

“I meet Health Ministers regularly.They are often intrigued by our healthcare system, delivering first worldstandards at only 4% of our GDP. Many OECD countries spend more than 10%. TheUS is the biggest spender, with 18% of their GDP spent on healthcare.”

Perhaps we should spend more onhealthcare, instead of allowing Class C hospital average bills to almost doublein the last four years, and having more drugs and treatments as non-subsidised.

Support TOC! Buy Leong Sze Hian’sbook here!

--


Be part of the community! Join our Facebook Page!

[westman]

Re-read my post ...a portion of the enlarged tax net will co-finance the aged (subsidy of related services/health/hospice/out-patient/etc)

But really, it's not a solution of the root issue.
Perhaps at wits end, no solution for that so take this route and well, the by-product is revenue generating rather than subsidy-sucking.

I understoond that part, however, my question is:

1) with more FT coming and with greater competition in employment market thus putting a glass ceiling for us to garner higher pay (which inevitably putting a dent for us to build our personal retiring funds).. Is that consider helping?

2) Since we will have lesser income (projecting) during our "useful work life", we may have to beg for helps...for which I think we need not have to...

3) Going with the garment's approach (similar to Rasing GST to help the poor"), I think this is not going to work!

[gn108]

Help yes ...but i didn't say this will help us and I didn;t say help in the long run....

But it will help some groups and defer the aging demographic issue and push it back by some years.

I understoond that part, however, my question is:

1) with more FT coming and with greater competition in employment market thus putting a glass ceiling for us to garner higher pay (which inevitably putting a dent for us to build our personal retiring funds).. Is that consider helping?

2) Since we will have lesser income (projecting) during our "useful work life", we may have to beg for helps...for which I think we need not have to...

3) Going with the garment's approach (similar to Rasing GST to help the poor"), I think this is not going to work!

[rattydrama]

we have to be more productive then the foreigners - its a competition. If Singaporeans loose out in the race, lower their standard and change their life style to the min. Thats what we can see for now.

Maybe right now the only way is to embrance the foreign talents and buy more property.

I understoond that part, however, my question is:

1) with more FT coming and with greater competition in employment market thus putting a glass ceiling for us to garner higher pay (which inevitably putting a dent for us to build our personal retiring funds).. Is that consider helping?

2) Since we will have lesser income (projecting) during our "useful work life", we may have to beg for helps...for which I think we need not have to...

3) Going with the garment's approach (similar to Rasing GST to help the poor"), I think this is not going to work!

[mygeemeel]

Garmen should encourage us local men to have more wives so that we can have more children. There should also be a scheme to guarantee free education.

[gn108]

As a society, we have lost sight of what is (equally) important...
Competition ...yes but do we need to win such that we sacrifice other non-monetary joys and values?

Buy more, own more, have more, earn more = less time for time to have a family and children...hence low fertility rates

And soon, the FT that become PR and citizens will internalise these values and the cycle continues ....round and round ...

we have to be more productive then the foreigners - its a competition. If Singaporeans loose out in the race, lower their standard and change their life style to the min. Thats what we can see for now.

Maybe right now the only way is to embrance the foreign talents and buy more property.

[rattydrama]

Garmen should encourage us local men to have more wives so that we can have more children. There should also be a scheme to guarantee free education.

vice versa.......hahaha.. welcome to Singapore ! heaven and hell ! all wishes come true.

[rattydrama]

Singapore is small and when you are small its fearful.........its no turning back now.

if the issue now is fertility rates .. then import more smarter people ... technically it can be solved...


at the rate we are going, better buy something and hang on there cos the island cannot afford to fail and it will be getting more expensive to stay at the rate we are going.

stay put is not the solution.

As a society, we have lost sight of what is (equally) important...
Competition ...yes but do we need to win such that we sacrifice other non-monetary joys and values?

Buy more, own more, have more, earn more = less time for time to have a family and children...hence low fertility rates

And soon, the FT that become PR and citizens will internalise these values and the cycle continues ....round and round ...

[howgozit]

.

This explains why more and more daughters are prostituting themselves to pay for their parents healthcare just like in the TV dramas. You proud of this ??

Wah.... really ah, prostituting themselves to pay for healthcare.. zun bo? Where did you get this info from?

Or is it to buy Iphones, Ipads, LV bags....etc instead?

[wenqing]

Singapore is small and when you are small its fearful.........its no turning back now.

if the issue now is fertility rates .. then import more smarter people ... technically it can be solved...


at the rate we are going, better buy something and hang on there cos the island cannot afford to fail and it will be getting more expensive to stay at the rate we are going.

stay put is not the solution.

What is your definition of 'cannot afford fail' ?

What is failure ? I thought PAP is encouraging people to learn from failures ?

Hiding behind 'cannot afford to fail' to stay in power is an excuse, not a merit.

'Cannot afford to fail' but can afford to make mistakes and be not answerable ??

There is no such thing in this world as 'cannot afford to fail', it is just fearmongering.

[wenqing]

Wah.... really ah, prostituting themselves to pay for healthcare.. zun bo? Where did you get this info from?

Or is it to buy Iphones, Ipads, LV bags....etc instead?

Wanbao and Xin Min heartland sob stories. Go to their websites.

Replicated many times in Singapore, Taiwan, HK, Korean and China dramas. Only Asians daughters will sacrifice for their parents.

[howgozit]

Wanbao and Xin Min heartland sob stories. Go to their websites.

Replicated many times in Singapore, Taiwan, HK, Korean and China dramas. Only Asians daughters will sacrifice for their parents.

Ok sorry I can't comment on the articles in Wanbao or Xinmin as my Chinese not up to scratch (I guess you'll blame that on our education system, minister or something like that )

Can you share what are in those stories? Like, is this very widespread and what kind of illnesses and how the government deny them healthcare that they have to prostitute themselves.

So far I have only heard of teenagers prostituting themselves to buy branded goods. This is new to me.

[Regulators]

The most jialat case is not selling s-x to but branded stuff, it is the china boy who sold his kidney to buy an ipad. Omg what is the world coming to?

Ok sorry I can't comment on the articles in Wanbao or Xinmin as my Chinese not up to scratch (I guess you'll blame that on our education system, minister or something like that )

Can you share what are in those stories? Like, is this very widespread and what kind of illnesses and how the government deny them healthcare that they have to prostitute themselves.

So far I have only heard of teenagers prostituting themselves to buy branded goods. This is new to me.

[Allthepies]

i think it all boils down to 1 question: ask urself this question how may children do u have? and then look around u, how come china pr couple come here happily give birth to 3 children while singapore couple 0,1 or 2? a friend once mistaken my brother's wife is from china becos my brother has 3 children : ) let all do our part and the prolem will be solved.dont always blame the goverment, other people. how about take a look at urself first

[gn108]

You are correct - on an individual level.
But collectively, when your 'neighbour' has 'more' by 'deferring' marriage/children, there is a shift in the thinking of each cohort. And it's reflected by the declining fertility rates.

These Chinese that give birth to 3 children...I'm positive by the 3rd generation it'll be 1.1 children. So, you're not solving anything at the root.

I'm not blaming the Govt - maybe they have been too successful in all their policies (Stop at 2, education, competition, etc). The issue is these values of economic success at all cost is difficult to re-balance (quality of life, children, marriage)

i think it all boils down to 1 question: ask urself this question how may children do u have? and then look around u, how come china pr couple come here happily give birth to 3 children while singapore couple 0,1 or 2? a friend once mistaken my brother's wife is from china becos my brother has 3 children : ) let all do our part and the prolem will be solved.dont always blame the goverment, other people. how about take a look at urself first

[westman]

You are correct - on an individual level.
But collectively, when your 'neighbour' has 'more' by 'deferring' marriage/children, there is a shift in the thinking of each cohort. And it's reflected by the declining fertility rates.

These Chinese that give birth to 3 children...I'm positive by the 3rd generation it'll be 1.1 children. So, you're not solving anything at the root.

I'm not blaming the Govt - maybe they have been too successful in all their policies (Stop at 2, education, competition, etc). The issue is these values of economic success at all cost is difficult to re-balance (quality of life, children, marriage)

I've tried to convine my wife to try the third one and she said this to me...

"huh... you siao izzit? Still not feeling enough from the stresses out for your long hours works izzit? If we have another one, we wil either have to lower our living standard or work even harder to kept status quo"

Can anyone teach me how to counter back this question?

[proud owner]

i spoke with a friend's FT girlfriend .. who is now a PR ..

and she openly tells me, that she and her friends (also PR) ... will eventually go back to their home country ...

theres no guarantee to opening the gate will ensure survival ..

imagine we add 1.5 mio of foreigners .. and after 30 yrs ... all leave singapore ... wll we be better off or will the vacumn be bigger ?

by which time .. even Lee Junior may not be around anymore ..

so i think senile Lee should not stick his head out now to recommend anything

instead should work on HOW TO ENCOURAGE / CREATE an environment that real singaporeans produce more ...

[devilplate]

I've tried to convine my wife to try the third one and she said this to me...

"huh... you siao izzit? Still not feeling enough from the stresses out for your long hours works izzit? If we have another one, we wil either have to lower our living standard or work even harder to kept status quo"

Can anyone teach me how to counter back this question?

no nid to counter....take it naturally and respect her decision

[devilplate]

i spoke with a friend's FT girlfriend .. who is now a PR ..

and she openly tells me, that she and her friends (also PR) ... will eventually go back to their home country ...

theres no guarantee to opening the gate will ensure survival ..

imagine we add 1.5 mio of foreigners .. and after 30 yrs ... all leave singapore ... wll we be better off or will the vacumn be bigger ?

by which time .. even Lee Junior may not be around anymore ..

so i think senile Lee should not stick his head out now to recommend anything

instead should work on HOW TO ENCOURAGE / CREATE an environment that real singaporeans produce more ...

the key is how to make Sg remain attractive to FTs

one is leaving but 3 more r eagerly waiting to come here.....how abt tat?

[proud owner]

the key is how to make Sg remain attractive to FTs

one is leaving but 3 more r eagerly waiting to come here.....how abt tat?

and once they harvest their goods..they will leave ... endless ...


give more goodies and privileges to local singaporeans can be a good start ..

PRs get as much privileges as singaporeans ...so whats there for sporeans ?
no incentives at all ..apart from buying landed...and still risk kana 'buy back' from govt ..

so really no incentives leh ..

[devilplate]

and once they harvest their goods..they will leave ... endless ...


give more goodies and privileges to local singaporeans can be a good start ..

PRs get as much privileges as singaporeans ...so whats there for sporeans ?
no incentives at all ..apart from buying landed...and still risk kana 'buy back' from govt ..

so really no incentives leh ..

got more incentives la....buy buy HDB BTO mah.....better hospital rates rite?

and ya la....WKS is the man to blame for low fertility rate lah!

[august]

"bring in FT to help aging population" is the same logic as "raising GST is to help the poor".

end of day it is not to help the aged or the poor, it is to boost GDP and some people's pockets.

[proud owner]

got more incentives la....buy buy HDB BTO mah.....better hospital rates rite?

and ya la....WKS is the man to blame for low fertility rate lah!

my friend owns a private condo ..
then got to know a a girl ..to be divorcee soon .. ...

they got married ..she split the HDB with her ex hubby

HDB says my friend need to be registered as co owner of the HDB since they are now married

knn .. HDB then forced him to sell his private condo ...

what kind of stupid law is this ?

you married a girl who owns a HDB and you have to sell you condo ?

[devilplate]

my friend owns a private condo ..
then got to know a a girl ..to be divorcee soon .. ...

they got married ..she split the HDB with her ex hubby

HDB says my friend need to be registered as co owner of the HDB since they are now married

knn .. HDB then forced him to sell his private condo ...

what kind of stupid law is this ?

you married a girl who owns a HDB and you have to sell you condo ?

hehe....so moral of the story...choose a ger tat owns a LANDED instead lor...better rite? hehe

jokes aside, there r more worse cases.....how about ur fren wife's ex-husband? imagine he dun have much $$ and cannot afford to buy a resale HDB flat or worse still he is still under 35yo and cant buy resale flat at all

[taggy]

my friend owns a private condo ..
then got to know a a girl ..to be divorcee soon .. ...

they got married ..she split the HDB with her ex hubby

HDB says my friend need to be registered as co owner of the HDB since they are now married

knn .. HDB then forced him to sell his private condo ...

what kind of stupid law is this ?

you married a girl who owns a HDB and you have to sell you condo ?

hmm... why dun they sell the hdb away?

[wenqing]

Summary is government policies are to blame and they will never admit it is wrong to keep their god-like status.

Vote a new government for changes if you want to see changes to policies. Same as any other countries and companies around the world.