Freehold Penthouse vs Leasehold landed, your choice?

[devilplate]

Penthouse difficult to rent out at good price, but it may not be a bad idea to rent out the lower level 1 bedder while occupying the upper level assuming it is a 2 bedders and above PH. Provided owner don't mind sharing with tenant though. At least no need to see tenant if owner just stay upstairs.

Better to get dual key

[devilplate]

would take a FH landed anytime. do what you want and whenever you want. ie can tear down walls and put up anything. No real need for any permission with regards to building facade. also save on monthly maintenance to condo management. the money save can be used at anytime for various upgrades. imagine the 400-500 for monthly fees for penthouses will work out to 120k over 20years and this is assuming there is no increase in the price. my parents place over the last 20years did not even spend 10k on extra maintenance.

Did not even repaint the house for 20yrs?

[ysyap]

would take a FH landed anytime. do what you want and whenever you want. ie can tear down walls and put up anything. No real need for any permission with regards to building facade. also save on monthly maintenance to condo management. the money save can be used at anytime for various upgrades. imagine the 400-500 for monthly fees for penthouses will work out to 120k over 20years and this is assuming there is no increase in the price. my parents place over the last 20years did not even spend 10k on extra maintenance.

10k for 20years is an achievement! My parent's place, after staying for 10 years, toilet leak and we did some basic reno at toilet, contractor demanded $10k. Neighbor did reno and changed their wall structure abit and now rain was poured into our front yard. We paid another $5k to construct a rain water shield. Then again roof got a bit of problem and repaired with another $5k. It is the small little repairs here and there and the contractor sparing no thought to charge super high price when they see its a landed property that makes staying in a landed very expensive! Even laying cables from outside into the house cost money! Very impressed that your parents hardly spent 10k over 20years.

[wind30]

I think staying in landed is cheaper than condo lah. Not as cheap as 10k in 20 years but should be cheaper than Condo monthly maintenance fees.

[devilplate]

I think staying in landed is cheaper than condo lah. Not as cheap as 10k in 20 years but should be cheaper than Condo monthly maintenance fees.

Stay hdb ...cheapest!

[ysyap]

Stay hdb ...cheapest!

If HDB is super old, it may not be that cheap anymore to maintain the place and to repair the leaks and attend to complains from neighbors about your toilet leaks, etc. Its a headache. LOL!

[devilplate]

If HDB is super old, it may not be that cheap anymore to maintain the place and to repair the leaks and attend to complains from neighbors about your toilet leaks, etc. Its a headache. LOL!

We r toking about exterior maintenance and maint fees

Interior reno is not included in our discussion rite?

[ysyap]

We r toking about exterior maintenance and maint fees

Interior reno is not included in our discussion rite?

Cost of staying in landed include both interior and exterior maintenance. Condo maint fee deals with exterior only and yes interior of condo is not included in the discussion. I would expect when our dear friend mkl22 spoke about $10k extra maintenance, it includes both inside and outside? So if we talk about landed's interior and exterior, we must also include interior of condo and for that matter, HDB too!

[Rysk]

I think staying in landed is cheaper than condo lah. Not as cheap as 10k in 20 years but should be cheaper than Condo monthly maintenance fees.

On the other hand, will property tax for landed more expensive than non-landed? Or the calculation is still base on value of the property determine by IRAS..

[gn108]

Like Insurance...condo got 'pooling of risk' by paying premiums of monthly fees. Landed can escape this and if lucky, maintenance can be much lower than Condos.

But when roof leaks/gives way eg termites, etc...then owner pays all his own. Painting also - big difference...

To each his own...

[Rysk]

Stay hdb ...cheapest!

Think in this topic.. we are like compare between C-Class, 3-series, A4.. so dun bring in a Altis lah.. is out of the topic liao

[devilplate]

Cost of staying in landed include both interior and exterior maintenance. Condo maint fee deals with exterior only and yes interior of condo is not included in the discussion. I would expect when our dear friend mkl22 spoke about $10k extra maintenance, it includes both inside and outside? So if we talk about landed's interior and exterior, we must also include interior of condo and for that matter, HDB too!

If include both interior n exterior, landed cfm most expensive....bigger space equal higher running cost...dun even nid to discuss at all

Hdb cfm cheapest

Landed can b cheap to maintain just like someone mentioned his parents spent less den 10k for 20yrs!

Paint the whole hse on interior n exterior for just a semi d wud easily cost more den 5k oredi....roof maintenance, gate....every 10yrs reno whole hse again wud cost 100k easily too unless u wana continue to stay in a slum.....

[gn108]

Maybe single storey ...do your own painting/1 coat/every 8 years.
Cost of paint - $400. Man-power - Free/cost of vacation time!

Gate - those type you have to get out of your car and use your hand to open? One time cost for 20 years! Paint metallic silver once every 10 yrs.

Roof - if bo tai chi ...no cost there

Many of these ard...more for the lucky oldies who bought before HDB went full on.

If include both interior n exterior, landed cfm most expensive....bigger space equal higher running cost...dun even nid to discuss at all

Hdb cfm cheapest

Landed can b cheap to maintain just like someone mentioned his parents spent less den 10k for 20yrs!

Paint the whole hse on interior n exterior for just a semi d wud easily cost more den 5k oredi....roof maintenance, gate....every 10yrs reno whole hse again wud cost 100k easily too unless u wana continue to stay in a slum.....

[stl67]

Maybe single storey ...do your own painting/1 coat/every 8 years.
Cost of paint - $400. Man-power - Free/cost of vacation time!

Gate - those type you have to get out of your car and use your hand to open? One time cost for 20 years! Paint metallic silver once every 10 yrs.

Roof - if bo tai chi ...no cost there

Many of these ard...more for the lucky oldies who bought before HDB went full on.

normally inter terrace painting is easier and should be cheaper because only paint the front and the back. Corner/semd-d is tough as the side is normally very long + boundary along the side + 2nd, 3rd floor ledges and setbacks.

My in-law stays in a inter terrace, so they paint the ground floor front and back by themsleves together with themaid.

[mkl22]

10k for 20years is an achievement! My parent's place, after staying for 10 years, toilet leak and we did some basic reno at toilet, contractor demanded $10k. Neighbor did reno and changed their wall structure abit and now rain was poured into our front yard. We paid another $5k to construct a rain water shield. Then again roof got a bit of problem and repaired with another $5k. It is the small little repairs here and there and the contractor sparing no thought to charge super high price when they see its a landed property that makes staying in a landed very expensive! Even laying cables from outside into the house cost money! Very impressed that your parents hardly spent 10k over 20years.

the main bulk of the 10k was for repainting. maybe i miscalculated and it was closer to 15k in the end. but still much cheaper than a condo. I DIY and patch up a leaking roof. the exterior was repainted 2 times and interior once. They did add an auto gate later on but this is not really part of maintenance. Other than that nothing much else was done since 1991. and everyone remarks that the place is very well maintained for a 20year old house.

[mkl22]

If include both interior n exterior, landed cfm most expensive....bigger space equal higher running cost...dun even nid to discuss at all

Hdb cfm cheapest

Landed can b cheap to maintain just like someone mentioned his parents spent less den 10k for 20yrs!

Paint the whole hse on interior n exterior for just a semi d wud easily cost more den 5k oredi....roof maintenance, gate....every 10yrs reno whole hse again wud cost 100k easily too unless u wana continue to stay in a slum.....

its no slum la. around 15k and at most 20k is what they have spent.

[ysyap]

Like Insurance...condo got 'pooling of risk' by paying premiums of monthly fees. Landed can escape this and if lucky, maintenance can be much lower than Condos.

But when roof leaks/gives way eg termites, etc...then owner pays all his own. Painting also - big difference...

To each his own...

Agreed... if you are a very careful home owner, landed maintenance prob cost less than condo!

[ysyap]

the main bulk of the 10k was for repainting. maybe i miscalculated and it was closer to 15k in the end. but still much cheaper than a condo. I DIY and patch up a leaking roof. the exterior was repainted 2 times and interior once. They did add an auto gate later on but this is not really part of maintenance. Other than that nothing much else was done since 1991. and everyone remarks that the place is very well maintained for a 20year old house.

Good job to your parents! You can certainly learn from them and save save save!

[mkl22]

Cost of staying in landed include both interior and exterior maintenance. Condo maint fee deals with exterior only and yes interior of condo is not included in the discussion. I would expect when our dear friend mkl22 spoke about $10k extra maintenance, it includes both inside and outside? So if we talk about landed's interior and exterior, we must also include interior of condo and for that matter, HDB too!

actually i'm talking about exterior only. ie just like the condo maintenance covers the external of the unit.

[devilplate]

Anyway not fair comparison bcoz condo got security guards, cleaners throw rubbish n clean common area for u, maintain pool for u, tennis court, clubhse etc....

U use the clubhse just nid to clear the rubbish urself n cleaning will b done by the cleaners...sames goes to bbq pit usage....

No free lunch in this world n u goto pay for it....if dun nid facilities and wana save money den stay in hdb bestest!

Landed got lots of diy to do....basically, i m a lazy person and dunwan to become a slave to the hse.....same goes to car.....nvr understand those ppl becoming a slave to their car whrby they r willing to wash their cars every alternate days n wax weekly!

Hse n cars r for us to enjoy!

[howgozit]

its no slum la. around 15k and at most 20k is what they have spent.

Hahaha... 10K, 15K.. 20K. number increasing as the thread goes.

Anyway, I don't disagree with you. My experience with Landed and PH is that Landed tend to be lower in maintenance cost.

For the comparison to be meaningful, the interior maintenance costs should be excluded. This leaves only the maintenance cost of the Landed exterior vs the PH conservancy charges. Chances are, Landed is much cheaper.

However, it also depends on the desired level of maintenance by the owner. This is the beauty of landed. Though landscaping (which are initial costs) may cost a bomb, gardening hardly costs anything. Painting is at your discretion, I paint portions of my house as and when I feel like.

As for wear and tear variables like roofing...etc it all depends on your luck and the quality of your builders in the first place. This is no different if you stay in a PH which would be on the top floor, the warranty for the roof/roof terrace is 10 years(if I remember correctly), thereafter its all your own cost as well.

Because Penthouses pay a higher share value than other units, the costs adds up. The upfront conservancy charges pay for both day to day running costs and future costs(sinking fund) as well. And good management practice would require such funds to be in excess so as to cater for contingencies.

So in effect there are 3 components to conservancy costs
1) current running costs
2) future costs holdings
3) contingency costs holdings

That is a bit of triple whammy for a Penthouse because I have to pay a higher share value of these costs.

[ysyap]

Anyway not fair comparison bcoz condo got security guards, cleaners throw rubbish n clean common area for u, maintain pool for u, tennis court, clubhse etc....

U use the clubhse just nid to clear the rubbish urself n cleaning will b done by the cleaners...sames goes to bbq pit usage....

No free lunch in this world n u goto pay for it....if dun nid facilities and wana save money den stay in hdb bestest!

Landed got lots of diy to do....basically, i m a lazy person and dunwan to become a slave to the hse.....same goes to car.....nvr understand those ppl becoming a slave to their car whrby they r willing to wash their cars every alternate days n wax weekly!

Hse n cars r for us to enjoy!

Tot you mentioned before you'd want to stay in landed some time but if you're a self professed lazy person, better think twice. Laziness is one of the biggest factor for me to buy condo instead of landed!

[Condo Kaiser]

i feel if you are still stressing about how much maintenence you will need to pay then it means you are living beyond your means.

i never hear from any of my friends living in landed complaint too expensive to paint the house or fix the roof and pay for gardener or higher electricity bills... to them they already factor all these into the cost of living in landed... they only complaint they not enough money to move to a bigger house / GCB.

i also never hear from any of my friends staying in condo say he feel monthly management fee too much, to the point that he feel stay in HDB more worth it... i guess all my friends are all living comfortably at different level of wealth (GCB/Landed/Condo/HDB)

if you are already paying few million for the house, what's 5k/10k/20k/30k (depending on type of property) per year for maintenence? if maintenece cost hurts you.. then you are probably staying in a house too expensive for your level of wealth...

[devilplate]

Tot you mentioned before you'd want to stay in landed some time but if you're a self professed lazy person, better think twice. Laziness is one of the biggest factor for me to buy condo instead of landed!

I want to buy landed doesnt mean i wana stay in it

Furthermore, i will hire full time maid or even two, part time gardener etc if i were to stay in landed....so i wud expect my mthly bills to go up...

[devilplate]

i feel if you are still stressing about how much maintenence you will need to pay then it means you are living beyond your means.

i never hear from any of my friends living in landed complaint too expensive to paint the house or fix the roof and pay for gardener or higher electricity bills... to them they already factor all these into the cost of living in landed... they only complaint they not enough money to move to a bigger house / GCB.

i also never hear from any of my friends staying in condo say he feel monthly management fee too much, to the point that he feel stay in HDB more worth it... i guess all my friends are all living comfortably at different level of wealth (GCB/Landed/Condo/HDB)

if you are already paying few million for the house, what's 5k/10k/20k/30k (depending on type of property) per year for maintenence? if maintenece cost hurts you.. then you are probably staying in a house too expensive for your level of wealth...

Totally agree!

Stay landed must enjoy! Mustnt end up becoming a slave to ur house!

[gn108]

Some 'stretch' themselves to get the best apartment - but then can't handle the improvement side. Also mind-set plays a part.
Those who Enjoy/Consume the house = no issue of paying to improve.
Those who see their own house/condo as purely as an Investment = might balk at maintenance/improvement cost.

if you are already paying few million for the house, what's 5k/10k/20k/30k (depending on type of property) per year for maintenence? if maintenece cost hurts you.. then you are probably staying in a house too expensive for your level of wealth...[/quote]

[Condo Kaiser]

Totally agree!

Stay landed must enjoy! Mustnt end up becoming a slave to ur house!

yes... if i really not very rich... then i rather stay HDB which is nicely renovated than to buy a mass market condo 500m away from the HDB and cry every quarter when i pay maintenece.. then buy curtain also need to think which one cheaper... everythin buy from IKEA....

[Condo Kaiser]

Some 'stretch' themselves to get the best apartment - but then can't handle the improvement side. Also mind-set plays a part.
Those who Enjoy/Consume the house = no issue of paying to improve.
Those who see their own house/condo as purely as an Investment = might balk at maintenance/improvement cost.

Agreed... but i still feel your own roof is something you should not be playing with... your own house must make nice... investment properties can let it be (tht's only if you are talking abt non-prime... renovation plays a big part for alot of prime condo)

[gn108]

Another senario is en-bloc potential properties.
Do you reno to the hilt knowing that your improvements are subject to the other 99% of the share value?
What is an EB property then ...Consumption and Investment?
But you don't have control....in this case landed is better...

Agreed... but i still feel your own roof is something you should not be playing with... your own house must make nice... investment properties can let it be (tht's only if you are talking abt non-prime... renovation plays a big part for alot of prime condo)

[Montaigne]

How do they calculate share value? Based on floor area? Who will pay higher of say one is a 2 bedder penthouse, and the other is 3 bedder non penthouse but the 3 bedder is bigger in area??