CCR vs RCR vs OCR

[rockinsg]

Just have a grand bedroom,more grand bathroom, lots of nice handles strategically place with bathtube for 2 with see thru glass panels with switch to select clear or opaque. Wall mount LED 60" TV hidden with BOSS cube speakers hidden in corner. Add a stylo fridge and comfy 2 seater designer seat .

Designed for the bachelor in mind.

That would be a sellout

[Wild Falcon]

That I agree as Singapore is such a small country and transportation links is key. As transportation links improve and new regional centers are formed, the distinction becomes increasingly insignificant and obsolete.

Having said that, I dont think all segment of properties look promising. Unless one really has to buy a place for own occupation, its best not to buy any property (be it CCR or OCR or RCR) today purely for investments. It is already quite close to the top of the market liao. And watever capital gains might be limited.

I honestly think it is pretty meaningless to compare investment gain of CCR RCR ORC property. At the end of the day, all our property investment gain is not dependent on location but rather the health and diversity of overall Singapore economy.

At the moment, I think all segment of the properties are very promising, all we should hope for is that Singapore economy is developed to quickly adapt to changes

all for singapore, all for love

[teddybear]

Sometimes, they don't move in tandem, sometime more, sometime less, sometime in step, sometime out of step in terms of price acceleration & deceleration. Below are latest comments from analysts' reports for reference:

Residential Property Sector: OCR prices decelerate
Continued moderation in price increase. URA released 2Q11 real estate
statistics last Friday which showed a seventh consecutive moderating in
the private residential price index to a 2.0% QoQ appreciation versus 2.2%
in 1Q11. Note that pace of moderation appears to be slowing with only a
0.2% drop in the rate of appreciation versus a more hefty 0.5% drop seen
last quarter. By region, we saw the price index of the core central region
(CCR) accelerate to 2.0% appreciation in 2Q11, and the rest of central
region (RCR) and outside central region (OCR) decelerated to 1.1% and
1.7% for the quarter respectively.

Basically, it shows price increase for OCR and RCR has decelerated significantly while for CCR has accelerated (expected since CCR is the only one below 2007 peak while OCR & RCR has gone up significantly above 2007 peak!).
CCR is expected to continue price upside to 2007 peak and above while OCR will become stagnant with the rate of deceleration.

I honestly think it is pretty meaningless to compare investment gain of CCR RCR ORC property. At the end of the day, all our property investment gain is not dependent on location but rather the health and diversity of overall Singapore economy.

At the moment, I think all segment of the properties are very promising, all we should hope for is that Singapore economy is developed to quickly adapt to changes

all for singapore, all for love

[Jadey]

Sometimes, they don't move in tandem, sometime more, sometime less, sometime in step, sometime out of step in terms of price acceleration & deceleration. Below are latest comments from analysts' reports for reference:

Residential Property Sector: OCR prices decelerate
Continued moderation in price increase. URA released 2Q11 real estate
statistics last Friday which showed a seventh consecutive moderating in
the private residential price index to a 2.0% QoQ appreciation versus 2.2%
in 1Q11. Note that pace of moderation appears to be slowing with only a
0.2% drop in the rate of appreciation versus a more hefty 0.5% drop seen
last quarter. By region, we saw the price index of the core central region
(CCR) accelerate to 2.0% appreciation in 2Q11, and the rest of central
region (RCR) and outside central region (OCR) decelerated to 1.1% and
1.7% for the quarter respectively.

Basically, it shows price increase for OCR and RCR has decelerated significantly while for CCR has accelerated (expected since CCR is the only one below 2007 peak while OCR & RCR has gone up significantly above 2007 peak!).
CCR is expected to continue price upside to 2007 peak and above while OCR will become stagnant with the rate of deceleration.

We will need to look at 3-5 years average growth rate to confirm if there is a big disparity of growth between the different region. Quarterly result can be misleading due to he high transaction price of new launches and MM apartment etc.

I think that in order for CCR to move back to 2007, banks and bankers will first need to find a something profitable to replace the subprime mortgage CDOs.

[CCR]

We will need to look at 3-5 years average growth rate to confirm if there is a big disparity of growth between the different region. Quarterly result can be misleading due to he high transaction price of new launches and MM apartment etc.

I think that in order for CCR to move back to 2007, banks and bankers will first need to find a something profitable to replace the subprime mortgage CDOs.

CCR depends a lot on foreign investors... So unless foreign investors come, the increase will be really small.... One small thing to note though is that once the foreign investors comes, the increase will be fast and furious... So must look out for it....

[Jadey]

CCR depends a lot on foreign investors... So unless foreign investors come, the increase will be really small.... One small thing to note though is that once the foreign investors comes, the increase will be fast and furious... So must look out for it....

UBS, Credit Suisse and other big investment banks are announcing major job cut and cost cutting measures, as profit weaken. Not a good sign for luxury properties at the moment as rental income for luxury properties is highly dependent on the demand from banking industry. Rental yield is definitely going to take a hit.

I think the SSD basically kills off any possible return of big foreign fund back to Singapore residential sectors.

[rockinsg]

UBS, Credit Suisse and other big investment banks are announcing major job cut and cost cutting measures, as profit weaken. Not a good sign for luxury properties at the moment as rental income for luxury properties is highly dependent on the demand from banking industry. Rental yield is definitely going to take a hit.

I think the SSD basically kills off any possible return of big foreign fund back to Singapore residential sectors.

Why only CCR? Effect will certainly propogate to RCR..OCR..

But this was a known fact that global recovery is not happening.. its just some people who believe SG GDP keep 7-8% while rest of the world suffers.. and there are still people who believ that..

[teddybear]

You make wrong conclusion lah. By the way, UOB, OCBC, ICICI, and many other Asia banks all expanding and going to employ many many more private bankers in Singapore lei!

UBS, Credit Suisse and other big investment banks are announcing major job cut and cost cutting measures, as profit weaken. Not a good sign for luxury properties at the moment as rental income for luxury properties is highly dependent on the demand from banking industry. Rental yield is definitely going to take a hit.

I think the SSD basically kills off any possible return of big foreign fund back to Singapore residential sectors.

[Condo Kaiser]

UBS, Credit Suisse and other big investment banks are announcing major job cut and cost cutting measures, as profit weaken. Not a good sign for luxury properties at the moment as rental income for luxury properties is highly dependent on the demand from banking industry. Rental yield is definitely going to take a hit.

I think the SSD basically kills off any possible return of big foreign fund back to Singapore residential sectors.

At the same time GS, the biggest and most profitable investment bank in the world is shifting more of its resources to Singapore to be positioned for the rise of China as well as Apac region.

Two sides of the coin.....

[devilplate]

You make wrong conclusion lah. By the way, UOB, OCBC, ICICI, and many other Asia banks all expanding and going to employ many many more private bankers in Singapore lei!

I read goldman sach cut their usa office n expand sg office rite? Hehe

Huat argh!

Count ourselves lucky to be in asia! Can leech on big bro china

[Jadey]

You make wrong conclusion lah. By the way, UOB, OCBC, ICICI, and many other Asia banks all expanding and going to employ many many more private bankers in Singapore lei!

Cannot compare private bankers to investment bankers lah. Different
league.

from what I heard the banks are not as profitable as they were and they are not going crazy with super bonus yet.

[Jadey]

At the same time GS, the biggest and most profitable investment bank in the world is shifting more of its resources to Singapore to be positioned for the rise of China as well as Apac region.

Two sides of the coin.....

There will definitely be some positive effect from this move IF it does materialized. however today's banks are no longer as profitable as they were and they are also becoming more careful about the bonuses.

[teddybear]

They are just black cats, brown cats, siamese cats, different names, almost same lah!

Cannot compare private bankers to investment bankers lah. Different
league.

from what I heard the banks are not as profitable as they were and they are not going crazy with super bonus yet.

[Jadey]

They are just black cats, brown cats, siamese cats, different names, almost same lah!

To a rat, they all look the same.

[teddybear]

Yah lor, so many Rich Chinese coming and more richer ones will come with tightening of property buying in China!

I read goldman sach cut their usa office n expand sg office rite? Hehe

Huat argh!

Count ourselves lucky to be in asia! Can leech on big bro china

[DaytonaSS]

Singapore is financial hub, n Asia is the region of growth, naturally shift more headcounts from US n Europe to Singapore.

[Condo Kaiser]

There will definitely be some positive effect from this move IF it does materialized. however today's banks are no longer as profitable as they were and they are also becoming more careful about the bonuses.

Tht is not an "IF".. GS is definitely expanding in Singapore.

Cannot compare private bankers to investment bankers lah. Different
league.

from what I heard the banks are not as profitable as they were and they are not going crazy with super bonus yet..

I think the top private bankers don't make less than the top investment bankers.... PLUS..... we cannot just look at the top earners... it's much easier to be a so-so private banker and make 200k -300k a year... than to be a so - so investment banking associate and make 200k a year... once you move past the 5 years experience bracket... there are A LOT less investment bankers than private bankers....

i feel if singapore can grow into a real private banking hub.... there will be 10 times more RICH people here than now... they might not live here most of the year... but they won't mind buying a unit at Robertson / Ardmore / Paterson just for 3 months use every year... just to pass time during winter in their home country...

[SpinCity]

i feel if singapore can grow into a real private banking hub.... there will be 10 times more RICH people here than now... they might not live here most of the year... but they won't mind buying a unit at Robertson / Ardmore / Paterson just for 3 months use every year... just to pass time during winter in their home country...

Why so? Those wealthy individuals may choose to open accounts in Singapore, but why would they want to buy a property here, or even want to spend a extended period of time here every year?

[DaytonaSS]

Why so? Those wealthy individuals may choose to open accounts in Singapore, but why would they want to buy a property here, or even want to spend a extended period of time here every year?

confirm they are already here. i heard from a SQ friends that she meet a rich china man whom come in here with loads of cash to pick up 2 units at silversea.

also had a drink with a pretty n well educated chinese gal with good family background. Alot of their peers and parents are looking to buy something here or already bought something.

1% of china pple come will flood our property market. If they continue to come, what is 50k unsold units? already the foreign buyers are accounting an increase % of sales done.

but then, that was just b4 the CM4. I m sure CM4 have killed some of those $$.

[3C]

confirm they are already here. i heard from a SQ friends that she meet a rich china man whom come in here with loads of cash to pick up 2 units at silversea.

also had a drink with a pretty n well educated chinese gal with good family background. Alot of their peers and parents are looking to buy something here or already bought something.

1% of china pple come will flood our property market. If they continue to come, what is 50k unsold units? already the foreign buyers are accounting an increase % of sales done.

but then, that was just b4 the CM4. I m sure CM4 have killed some of those $$.

Recently a banker friend told me a "crazy" PRC businessman negotiated with him to get 80% loan to get 28 units. He almost thot he heard wrongly . He didn't get it as this is SGP. In the end he bot 8 units

[evergreen]

Recently a banker friend told me a "crazy" PRC businessman negotiated with him to get 80% loan to get 28 units. He almost thot he heard wrongly . He didn't get it as this is SGP. In the end he bot 8 units

Maybe he paid cash for the other 20 units

[CCR]

SSD and 60LTV move all the demand to OCR.... But demand will definitely return....

[CCR]

Did anyone watch channel five news earlier? Illy wife said there is a segment on property... What did they say o. The program?

[Condo Kaiser]

Why so? Those wealthy individuals may choose to open accounts in Singapore, but why would they want to buy a property here, or even want to spend a extended period of time here every year?

there are so many reasons why would a HNWI buy a property in singapore... i can't even begin to list them...

but one thing for sure is they will not go and buy somewhere like west coast or bishan...

[devilplate]

there are so many reasons why would a HNWI buy a property in singapore... i can't even begin to list them...

but one thing for sure is they will not go and buy somewhere like west coast or bishan...

But the problem is they can afford to b damn choosy

Budget is not a problem for them....they only want the bestest....is urs bestest to them?

[teddybear]

Bestest must sell at much more than $2000 psf mah. You buy OCR can sell at >$2000 psf?

But the problem is they can afford to b damn choosy

Budget is not a problem for them....they only want the bestest....is urs bestest to them?

[Jadey]

Tht is not an "IF".. GS is definitely expanding in Singapore.



I think the top private bankers don't make less than the top investment bankers.... PLUS..... we cannot just look at the top earners... it's much easier to be a so-so private banker and make 200k -300k a year... than to be a so - so investment banking associate and make 200k a year... once you move past the 5 years experience bracket... there are A LOT less investment bankers than private bankers....

i feel if singapore can grow into a real private banking hub.... there will be 10 times more RICH people here than now... they might not live here most of the year... but they won't mind buying a unit at Robertson / Ardmore / Paterson just for 3 months use every year... just to pass time during winter in their home country...

I am not sure where you get those information from, AFAIK, entry level private bankers make less than 100K a year, and you will need to be a VP or AVP to make $200-300K per year. And if you are "so-so", you will never be able to survive to become a VP.

Post financial crisis, banks has also stop giving out massive bonuses and relying more on fixed income salary and this in turn has forced banks to start trimming fats to improve profitability, which I am sure will include unnecessary housing allowance etc.

For Singapore, cost of housing in CCR area have not hit 2007 level, but for US or European banks or foreign investor, it has already surpass 2007 due to strong S$. Like I said, the 2007 housing madness in CCR was possible because banks and investors are making huge load of money selling subprime CDOs which is worth trillions of dollars. And now that the music stops, it will take awhile before things get back to where they were again.

Another factor to consider that is that Singapore has now become the top expat destination in the world, which mean more and more FT, including bankers, will be willing to take up a job offer in Singapore even without having an expat package. So just like taking a plane, when you are not traveling on your company's account, will you fly business or first class?

[rockinsg]

I am not sure where you get those information from, AFAIK, entry level private bankers make less than 100K a year, and you will need to be a VP or AVP to make $200-300K per year. And if you are "so-so", you will never be able to survive to become a VP.

Post financial crisis, banks has also stop giving out massive bonuses and relying more on fixed income salary and this in turn has forced banks to start trimming fats to improve profitability, which I am sure will include unnecessary housing allowance etc.

For Singapore, cost of housing in CCR area have not hit 2007 level, but for US or European banks or foreign investor, it has already surpass 2007 due to strong S$. Like I said, the 2007 housing madness in CCR was possible because banks and investors are making huge load of money selling subprime CDOs which is worth trillions of dollars. And now that the music stops, it will take awhile before things get back to where they were again.

Another factor to consider that is that Singapore has now become the top expat destination in the world, which mean more and more FT, including bankers, will be willing to take up a job offer in Singapore even without having an expat package. So just like taking a plane, when you are not traveling on your company's account, will you fly business or first class?

Actually worse is to come in next years..dodd frank..and continued pain after that with Basel III requirements..
People dont understand that GS is getting people in SG for "Cost cutting"..not for increasing cost base..


I have friends getting recruited by GS and its nothing to shout about.. were assured they will be taken care at Bonus time..but with GS results like this ..can wait and wait..

Make hay while the sun shine.. nexy few years Banking will still "Pay".. After that time for career shift

[teddybear]

Bankers earning >$300k to $Millions a year, what do you expect them to do? Live in HDB flats or OCR condos and rub shoulders with poorer folks to get more business deals? Fly economy class? Drive Kia Picanto? How to instill confidence in their potential clients that they "can make it" rich for their clients (and hence themselves)?

I am not sure where you get those information from, AFAIK, entry level private bankers make less than 100K a year, and you will need to be a VP or AVP to make $200-300K per year. And if you are "so-so", you will never be able to survive to become a VP.

Post financial crisis, banks has also stop giving out massive bonuses and relying more on fixed income salary and this in turn has forced banks to start trimming fats to improve profitability, which I am sure will include unnecessary housing allowance etc.

For Singapore, cost of housing in CCR area have not hit 2007 level, but for US or European banks or foreign investor, it has already surpass 2007 due to strong S$. Like I said, the 2007 housing madness in CCR was possible because banks and investors are making huge load of money selling subprime CDOs which is worth trillions of dollars. And now that the music stops, it will take awhile before things get back to where they were again.

Another factor to consider that is that Singapore has now become the top expat destination in the world, which mean more and more FT, including bankers, will be willing to take up a job offer in Singapore even without having an expat package. So just like taking a plane, when you are not traveling on your company's account, will you fly business or first class?

[Lovelle]

Bankers earning >$300k to $Millions a year, what do you expect them to do? Live in HDB flats or OCR condos and rub shoulders with poorer folks to get more business deals? Fly economy class? Drive Kia Picanto? How to instill confidence in their potential clients that they "can make it" rich for their clients (and hence themselves)?

they will sure stay in D1, near their office. D1 - Sail, Clift, S1, icon, etc