Tulip Garden relaunched for en bloc sale

[stalingrad]

Indeed, I have seen numerous freeloaders who do not add value to Singapore like you which is why I have feedback to ICA to tighten the approval criteria for PRs and re-entry permit

As for those PRs who has already taken citizenship, congrats!

Btw, my mom pat my back when she saw how I retort your weak argument

Seriously, you should examine the matter between your ears....I'm appalled at the kind of posts you conjure, reflects on your inability to control yourself, even in front of a computer screen. That's why without even asking what sort of contribution you made to Singapore, I rather thrash like you be barred from entering Singapore. No wonder the quality of FTs has gone down the doldrums...

haha, go ahead. you are just a minor accountant with no status in the country to speak of. you think that the government would give a hoot as to what you have to say?

jerk, moron, and asshole all rolled into one.


"gone down the doldrum?" that is a choice piece of singlish. I guess that is why foreign talent is needed here. to correct your gibberish.

[Geylang OKT]

Honest mistake, let's move on

[stalingrad]

Honest mistake, let's move on

no, we cannot move on until this jerk is taught a lesson and back off. he has been hounding me since god knows when, all because I am a foreigner. there are a lot of people that point up the shortcomings of many condos and no one hounds them like this jerk HP65 old fart has hounded me. He has bias against foreigners.

but we are not afraid of jerks like him. HP65, you want a fight, you got it.

[CCR]

So you mean they rather buy higher when the luxury high end market boom? Developers do land bank somwhy not buy now? Plus its reasonable pricing? Anyway no matter how fastnthe enbloc processnthat, the developer will need at least 1-2 years to make the enbloc site launch ready.....
So I am surprised, coz in 2 years, the pricing sure can support...

So why you think they don't buy? Maybe they think property prices will drop?

Any comments?

[land118]

So you mean they rather buy higher when the luxury high end market boom? Developers do land bank somwhy not buy now? Plus its reasonable pricing? Anyway no matter how fastnthe enbloc processnthat, the developer will need at least 1-2 years to make the enbloc site launch ready.....
So I am surprised, coz in 2 years, the pricing sure can support...

Somwhy don you think they don't buy? Maybe they think property prices will drop?

It's about price, timing, even if want to buy for landbank, there is a cost to holding this landbank - need to raise funds, cash, pay interest, etc. CapitaLand already sweating on the d'Leedon, another 1k+ units to sell. Who else have the might to come in? FEO? CDL? FCL? or Ho Bee team up with MCL again? Developers with the mu$cle for S$650mil with cooling measures just implemented, not many. Developers also have to check their other projects on hand, cashflow, etc.

At $650m asking price, developer would have to sell @S$1700-1800 psf...At this price, not many will "tikam". In the last 2 years since 2009, how many enbloc more than $200m? i can't think of any. May be if price is lower, some developers may bite.

"At the minimum price of S$650 million, Credo said the per square foot per plot ratio works out to S$1,250"

[gn108]

Glad that we are back on track.

We have Tulip Gdns, Whitley Hts and Hawaii Twrs that are higher profile projects and had their official tenders over.

Even Whitley, which is asking for less than 200m is not done through the official tender. Maybe there are on-going talks but it's going to be lower than the RP - as in MarinePoint.

I think developers might want to assess how sales go from here first before bidding in tenders.

[Allthepies]

no, we cannot move on until this jerk is taught a lesson and back off. he has been hounding me since god knows when, all because I am a foreigner. there are a lot of people that point up the shortcomings of many condos and no one hounds them like this jerk HP65 old fart has hounded me. He has bias against foreigners.

but we are not afraid of jerks like him. HP65, you want a fight, you got it.

how abt both of you take the squabbling offline? can exchange email and thrash out offline....

[tericia]

So you mean they rather buy higher when the luxury high end market boom? Developers do land bank somwhy not buy now? Plus its reasonable pricing? Anyway no matter how fastnthe enbloc processnthat, the developer will need at least 1-2 years to make the enbloc site launch ready.....
So I am surprised, coz in 2 years, the pricing sure can support...

Somwhy don you think they don't buy? Maybe they think property prices will drop?

Sorry if this question sounds silly but what are the stamp duty charges for developers as well?

Cuz this stamp duty thing is giving me problems on whether to buy now or wait till government change the regulations to make it more friendly to small buyers like me.

[HP65]

no, we cannot move on until this jerk is taught a lesson and back off. he has been hounding me since god knows when, all because I am a foreigner. there are a lot of people that point up the shortcomings of many condos and no one hounds them like this jerk HP65 old fart has hounded me. He has bias against foreigners.

but we are not afraid of jerks like him. HP65, you want a fight, you got it.

Correction, I'm not bias against all foreigners. In fact I just recently approved and hired a Brit in my firm. Its only junk, free loaders foreigners like you that we want to eradicate. We want to bring in foreigners who can add value and contribute to the real economy. For a foreigner who is able to spend so much time in a condo forum debating and coming up with fantasy stories, I can safely say you are wasting our resources and just adding to the congestion without significantly adding value to the economy. For a local to do such a thing, its perfectly fine coz its our rights, we are born here. But for foreigners, we pay you to contribute to the economy, not come here and debate in a forum.

Unless you are telling me you are now a reformed person, you know fully well why i have been targeting you coz you make yourself easy target with your unsupported, general and subjective comments. Other forumers has challenged you in the Cascadia thread but you couldnt come out with any evidence to support your claim. In a nutshell, its easy to see your real intention is to buy something in CCR or somewhere better located than your crappybelle. Thus you love to bash CCR projects in the hope that prices will fall. Despite your claims that you think nothing of farrer, i believe you would sell your body (although nobody is going to want it) just to get a unit in this area. Unfortunately for you, you will not see prices dip to the level you can afford. Most owners here can afford to wait it out. If developers want a piece of the pie here, we will expect them to pay good money for it.

This is the reason why I love to challenge you coz its quite plain for all to see your intentions. The problem with you is, like some junk foreigners, you talk too much, exposing and contradicting yourself You are such an easy book to read even when you are hiding behind the computer.

[HP65]

haha, go ahead. you are just a minor accountant with no status in the country to speak of. you think that the government would give a hoot as to what you have to say?

jerk, moron, and asshole all rolled into one.


"gone down the doldrum?" that is a choice piece of singlish. I guess that is why foreign talent is needed here. to correct your gibberish.

Pls lah, you think I bother to speak queen's english? And do you think we employ foreigners to correct our english? Do you even see our govt shouting that we need english language experts from UK?

So what if we can't speak properly? Life goes on, we still do business with the rest of the world. The east and the west

And btw, you will be surprised how much the govt values business leaders opinions.

[august]

Correction, I'm not bias against all foreigners. In fact I just recently approved and hired a Brit in my firm. Its only junk, free loaders foreigners like you that we want to eradicate. We want to bring in foreigners who can add value and contribute to the real economy. For a foreigner who is able to spend so much time in a condo forum debating and coming up with fantasy stories, I can safely say you are wasting our resources and just adding to the congestion without significantly adding value to the economy. For a local to do such a thing, its perfectly fine coz its our rights, we are born here. But for foreigners, we pay you to contribute to the economy, not come here and debate in a forum.

Unless you are telling me you are now a reformed person, you know fully well why i have been targeting you coz you make yourself easy target with your unsupported, general and subjective comments. Other forumers has challenged you in the Cascadia thread but you couldnt come out with any evidence to support your claim. In a nutshell, its easy to see your real intention is to buy something in CCR or somewhere better located than your crappybelle. Thus you love to bash CCR projects in the hope that prices will fall. Despite your claims that you think nothing of farrer, i believe you would sell your body (although nobody is going to want it) just to get a unit in this area. Unfortunately for you, you will not see prices dip to the level you can afford. Most owners here can afford to wait it out. If developers want a piece of the pie here, we will expect them to pay good money for it.

This is the reason why I love to challenge you coz its quite plain for all to see your intentions. The problem with you is, like some junk foreigners, you talk too much, exposing and contradicting yourself You are such an easy book to read even when you are hiding behind the computer.

well said ~

[CCR]

It's about price, timing, even if want to buy for landbank, there is a cost to holding this landbank - need to raise funds, cash, pay interest, etc. CapitaLand already sweating on the d'Leedon, another 1k+ units to sell. Who else have the might to come in? FEO? CDL? FCL? or Ho Bee team up with MCL again? Developers with the mu$cle for S$650mil with cooling measures just implemented, not many. Developers also have to check their other projects on hand, cashflow, etc.

At $650m asking price, developer would have to sell @S$1700-1800 psf...At this price, not many will "tikam". In the last 2 years since 2009, how many enbloc more than $200m? i can't think of any. May be if price is lower, some developers may bite.

"At the minimum price of S$650 million, Credo said the per square foot per plot ratio works out to S$1,250"

Precisely... 1800 psf is fair price for this area right?Glydebourne sold for 2150 psf and lee don residence is rumoured to be selling for at least 2000 psf.... Somdo understand why developer won't take it... In any enbloc sale, developer usually have to pay forwardmpricing or else no one will move especially in CCR... So unless developer wants to keep bidding for GLS 99 years LH land, they must better be ready to bid more...

I feel that tulip and now amber glades is good price..... Hawaii tower is a bit expensive though.... I think if no one wants to bid for tulip amber Whitley etc now, but when in 2 years times when they sell all their CCR units that they are holding now, they will have to bid much higher price...

That's my point.... They should bid now to avoid higher price next time...

Agree?

[westman]

Precisely... 1800 psf is fair price for this area right?Glydebourne sold for 2150 psf and lee don residence is rumoured to be selling for at least 2000 psf.... Somdo understand why developer won't take it... In any enbloc sale, developer usually have to pay forwardmpricing or else no one will move especially in CCR... So unless developer wants to keep bidding for GLS 99 years LH land, they must better be ready to bid more...

I feel that tulip and now amber glades is good price..... Hawaii tower is a bit expensive though.... I think if no one wants to bid for tulip amber Whitley etc now, but when in 2 years times when they sell all their CCR units that they are holding now, they will have to bid much higher price...

That's my point.... They should bid now to avoid higher price next time...

Agree?

May not as LH is bound by time and with each reduction of time, owners might get desperate. TG's used to asked for more before. This round, their indicative price are already lower than previous.

Unless we are seeing changes of property measures or factors for the better, chances are going down than up in near term or wait for another round of bull run (dun't know when especially reports about china property might burst by nex yest looming around...)

[land118]

Precisely... 1800 psf is fair price for this area right?Glydebourne sold for 2150 psf and lee don residence is rumoured to be selling for at least 2000 psf.... Somdo understand why developer won't take it... In any enbloc sale, developer usually have to pay forwardmpricing or else no one will move especially in CCR... So unless developer wants to keep bidding for GLS 99 years LH land, they must better be ready to bid more...

I feel that tulip and now amber glades is good price..... Hawaii tower is a bit expensive though.... I think if no one wants to bid for tulip amber Whitley etc now, but when in 2 years times when they sell all their CCR units that they are holding now, they will have to bid much higher price...

That's my point.... They should bid now to avoid higher price next time...

Agree?

Well, I suppose Developer are more expert and better guru than most in this forum. Am sure if they see a good deal, they would have grab already. So if they don't, what does that tell us? Either they waiting for better deal or they are unsure, expect uncertainty in the mkt like more cooling measures, etc.

[land118]

See this below:

http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011/...ip-garden.html
Thursday, January 27, 2011

Enbloc News 1: No bids for Tulip Garden & Hawaii Tower..?


.
Excerpts from a ST report today:

An unusual quiet has come over the closing of several mega collective sale tenders that were launched amid much fanfare with $500 million-plus reserve prices.

New launches for collective sales, however, have continued unabated.

The lack of news on the closed tenders has stirred talk among some residents that developers’ bids, if any, may have fallen short of reserve prices.

Recent reports, for example, have suggested that Tulip Garden – whose tender with a reserve price of $650 million was launched early last month and closed last Thursday – had received no bids.

If Tulip Garden gets sold for $650 million, it would be the third-largest collective sale by value here and the first freehold one above $500 million in three years.

Meanwhile, Hawaii Tower in Meyer Road, with a $700 million reserve price and whose tender closed yesterday, also got no bids.

Experts say the collective sale market is being tested again with the Jan 13 property cooling measures leaving the market in flux as many were caught by surprise.

The collective sale market had picked up last year with more than 30 sales totalling about $1.7 billion recorded as home prices surged. The strong rebound had been expected to continue this year.

Tenders launched before the latest property measures, and closing since, may have struggled to meet ambitious reserve prices, experts suggest, though they say it is too soon to draw conclusions.

Mr Alwyn Low, director of Deans Realtors, said even if bids with no special conditions came in above the reserve price for a collective sale, they would still take about a week to be finalised. There is also 10 weeks after the tender closes for private treaties to be ironed out.

Mr Karamjit Singh, managing director of marketing agent Credo Real Estate, said the tender for the Whitley Heights apartments has been pushed back to March 2, owing to requests from developers to look into the more complex nature of developing strata-landed homes.

The collective sale momentum, however, has carried on to this year. At least 10 collective sale tenders have been launched this year. These include Holland Tower, Newton View and Ying Mansions.

[westman]

May not as LH is bound by time and with each reduction of time, owners might get desperate. TG's used to asked for more before. This round, their indicative price are already lower than previous.

Unless we are seeing changes of property measures or factors for the better, chances are going down than up in near term or wait for another round of bull run (dun't know when especially reports about china property might burst by nex yest looming around...)

oops mistake, should be FH not LH..

[westman]

See this below:

http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011/...ip-garden.html
Thursday, January 27, 2011

Enbloc News 1: No bids for Tulip Garden & Hawaii Tower..?


.
Excerpts from a ST report today:

An unusual quiet has come over the closing of several mega collective sale tenders that were launched amid much fanfare with $500 million-plus reserve prices.

New launches for collective sales, however, have continued unabated.

The lack of news on the closed tenders has stirred talk among some residents that developers’ bids, if any, may have fallen short of reserve prices.

Recent reports, for example, have suggested that Tulip Garden – whose tender with a reserve price of $650 million was launched early last month and closed last Thursday – had received no bids.

If Tulip Garden gets sold for $650 million, it would be the third-largest collective sale by value here and the first freehold one above $500 million in three years.

Meanwhile, Hawaii Tower in Meyer Road, with a $700 million reserve price and whose tender closed yesterday, also got no bids.

Experts say the collective sale market is being tested again with the Jan 13 property cooling measures leaving the market in flux as many were caught by surprise.

The collective sale market had picked up last year with more than 30 sales totalling about $1.7 billion recorded as home prices surged. The strong rebound had been expected to continue this year.

Tenders launched before the latest property measures, and closing since, may have struggled to meet ambitious reserve prices, experts suggest, though they say it is too soon to draw conclusions.

Mr Alwyn Low, director of Deans Realtors, said even if bids with no special conditions came in above the reserve price for a collective sale, they would still take about a week to be finalised. There is also 10 weeks after the tender closes for private treaties to be ironed out.

Mr Karamjit Singh, managing director of marketing agent Credo Real Estate, said the tender for the Whitley Heights apartments has been pushed back to March 2, owing to requests from developers to look into the more complex nature of developing strata-landed homes.

The collective sale momentum, however, has carried on to this year. At least 10 collective sale tenders have been launched this year. These include Holland Tower, Newton View and Ying Mansions.

Looks like the take is for small projects and not major projects given current environment...

[Geylang OKT]

Peace be to All

[land118]

http://www.todayonline.com/Business/...eam-or-reality

En bloc sales: Dream or reality?


In a changed market, there is little, if anything, to be excited about

by Ku Swee Yong
05:55 AM Jan 14, 2011
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Several articles have been published in the media and by property analysts in recent months about the frenzy surrounding en bloc deals and the increasing values of these collective sales.

Some of these are really bullish about the potential for such transactions this year.

I cannot see where the excitement is because I understand the hurdles to en bloc deals have increased.

Several things have changed since the last peak of the en bloc market in 2007. The most obvious one has been highlighted by some of the articles: The average size of residential en bloc deals last year was about $50 million and only one exceeded $100 million. In comparison, more than 20 of the 200 residential en bloc deals in 2007 exceeded $100 million in value, as shown in Table 1.


THE DEVELOPERS

There are several reasons for the current lack of interest in large en bloc offerings - that is, those over $100 million in value - even though many developers are actively building up their land banks.

From the developers' point of view, the economics of an en bloc deal are less attractive today than in 2007 because of the following reasons:



a) The Government Land Sales (GLS) programme was at a record high in 2010. And, given the seemingly-insatiable demand from property investors and upgraders, the GLS will be at least as high in 2011. Developers participate in the GLS as it is a straightforward way to purchase 99-year leasehold land. It is hassle-free compared to the process of purchasing from an en bloc sale (unless there is 100-per-cent agreement from the owners of the en bloc development).

An en bloc sale requires clearance from the Strata Titles Board and the subsequent relocation of the existing owners of the project. Developers do not want to risk their investment cashflow being delayed by potentially lengthy appeals. The Land Titles (Strata) Act was last amended in the middle of last year to improve en bloc rules, making the process more transparent but more onerous.



b) From January 2009, planters within a residential unit and bay windows in all developments are not exempted from gross floor area (GFA). Based on this rule change, the uplift from the en bloc development's current plot ratio to the new buildable GFA is more limited compared to that during 2007.

For example, Tulip Garden was sold en bloc for $516 million in mid-2007 (although the buyer did not follow through the following year). At that time, developers were betting on launching new projects at Farrer Road upwards of $1,600 per sq ft. Additional profit margins for the developers could be derived from the sellable GFA of bay windows and planters (exceeding the plot ratio limit).

Today, without the additional GFA, developers would have to launch at higher prices in order to maintain their 15- to 20-per-cent profit margin. As a comparison, Tulip Garden is asking for $650 million in the current 2010 en bloc exercise.



c) Development Charge (DC) rates have gone back up to just below 5 per cent of the peak levels of March 2008. Average DC rates for September last year are 2 per cent below those of September 2007, 53 per cent above July 2007 and 114 per cent above March 2007.

Given the last few months of strong sales, particularly when looking at prices achieved in the mass market residential segment, I believe DC rates will increase in March this year, possibly exceeding those of March 2008 in many of the sectors.



d) Construction cost estimates, according to RLB, a global property and construction consultant, are higher in Q3 2010 than in Q3 2007, as shown in Table 2.



Developers now face higher costs from the DC impost and with less strata area to sell, even as market prices are about the same as those in 2007 for the Holland Road stretch.

For developers to view en bloc deals as economically viable investments, the reserve/asking prices cannot go too high up. En bloc sellers need to be realistic if they want to achieve a win-win deal for themselves and the developers.



THE FINANCIERS AND LENDERS

However, the biggest dampener to the fever of the en bloc market is the drastically reduced access to financing. This point has escaped the discussion of all the recent articles.

In 2007, there were many sources of financing - debt funds, hedge funds, etc. Developers could also choose to partner with investment banks such as Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, Wachovia or hedge funds such as Citadel, etc. In addition to getting senior debt at up to 70 per cent of the price of the land and construction, developers/investment funds may also avail themselves of another 20 per cent more in junior debt, mezzanine financing or convertible bonds, and so on.

A lot depends on the credit standing of the developer, but it does mean that, to buy Pine Grove en bloc, a top notch developer could require as little as $170 million, or about 10 per cent of equity.

Today, we are left with simple, senior debt (normal straight loans from banks) and the lending ratio may be capped at 60 per cent - which means the developer wishing to buy Pine Grove en bloc would need to invest well over half a billion dollars of equity. And, on top of that, the developer has to put up even more cash for development charges and construction costs, which are now also subject to lower loan limits.

Most real estate consultants will only look at the developer side of the equation. But we cannot forget that the lenders play a big role. Without credit and financing, the real estate market can at best stroll at a leisurely pace. And for the en bloc market to continue to grow actively, we need financial institutions and debt funds, especially the non-bank lenders, to regain their appetite for real estate risks.

Otherwise, the success of large en bloc deals such as Hawaii Tower, Pine Grove, Pandan Valley, Tanglin Park and Tulip Garden will remain a dream.



Ku Swee Yong is the founder of real estate agency International Property Advisor (IPA), which provides services to high-net-worth individuals.

[land118]

Just check all enbloc sales so far in 2011, seem that deals done below initial asking price:

http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011
"
1. Marine Point
Marine Point in Marine Parade Road has been acquired by CapitaLand at $101 million. The owners wanted $110 million when the tender was launched in October.

If an estimated development charge of $12.8 million is included, the price works out to $1,056psf ppr, CapitaLand said.

2. Bartley Terrace
Bartley Terrace, near Bartley MRT station, was sold for $40 million. The tender was launched last year with an asking price of $48 million.

Meadows Investment, a firm owned by Mr Neo Tiam Boon, executive director of local property and construction firm Tiong Aik Group, bought the site in a private treaty, said marketing agent Urban Front yesterday."

3. Robin Star
The BT today reported that Sing Holdings has acquired Robin Star for $47 million.

The 10-unit boutique development at 10 – 12 Robin Road will be combined with previously acquired Robin Court and 1 Robin Drive to make a combined site of 6,027.4sq m (= 64,878sqft).

The total purchase price of $124 million for the freehold sites translates to $1,297psf ppr, inclusive of estimated development costs of $5.28 million, Sing Holdings said.

Sing Holdings acquired Robin Court and 1 Robin Drive last September for $77.33 million.

The three sites were first collectively put up for sale in November 2007 by Credo Real Estate, sole owner of 1 Robin Drive and the agent representing the majority owners of Robin Court and Robin Star.

Credo slashed the asking price 40% the following year, putting Robin Court and 1 Robin Drive for $964-$996psf ppr, down from the initial asking price of $1,500-$1,600psf ppr.

Robin Court comprises 15 apartments, Robin Star 10 apartments, and No 1 Robin Drive is a detached house with a pre-school operating on its site.

Looks like the smaller sites are still having a field-day as far as collective sales are concerned... "

[westman]

Peace be to All

More pleasures sure helps

[gn108]

En bloc deals done in 2010 went thro' coz
a) in PPR terms it was priced to sell
b) property sales environment was healthy
c) quantums were all below 100m

Now the sales environment has changed with all these policy measures.
Also the quantum and PPR rate has increased. With less funding options, only the braver and depleted land-banked developers will bid.

Some of the EB developments have been greedy - there PPR rate is too high. I'm not surprised these are not done.

[CCR]

So tulip 1250 psf ppr amber glades 1075 psf ppr, Hawaii 1400 psf ppr all too high?

[land118]

So tulip 1250 psf ppr amber glades 1075 psf ppr, Hawaii 1400 psf ppr all too high?

Tulip & Hawaii - probably it is the size & quantum of the deal, while Amber Glades just put up for sales - quantum is much lower - personally think will go thru but maybe Developer squeeze abit and buy at slightly below asking price

[CCR]

So tulip and Hawaii must price at below 1k psf before canenbloc?

[land118]

So tulip and Hawaii must price at below 1k psf before canenbloc?

U are asking a million dollar question if MUST, well market forces dictate, only developers who are truely interested will know. Personally, 10-20% below asking price may be able to sell, if no more cooling measures and no sudden increase in interest rate in short term. But dun 4get if too low, resident who voted yes may change their mind and say NO. Are u vested in any if them?

[CCR]

I have a unit at olina lodge and we are in the midst of signing the en bloc deal...

[CCR]

U are asking a million dollar question if MUST, well market forces dictate, only developers who are truely interested will know. Personally, 10-20% below asking price may be able to sell, if no more cooling measures and no sudden increase in interest rate in short term. But dun 4get if too low, resident who voted yes may change their mind and say NO. Are u vested in any if them?

Ya you might be right, why should the residents sell if they cannot get a premium... Might as well keep until the next en bloc bull run when all the CCR land gets sold... Then it will be interesting coz I think during the last enbloc fever a lot of CCR land have been sold so if all those get developednthen not many pieces of land left in CCR to be up for en bloc then the price will be higher lol

[DaytonaSS]

Nice location IMHO, think developer trying to save some $$$$ see can lower abit.

[land118]

Ya you might be right, why should the residents sell if they cannot get a premium... Might as well keep until the next en bloc bull run when all the CCR land gets sold... Then it will be interesting coz I think during the last enbloc fever a lot of CCR land have been sold so if all those get developednthen not many pieces of land left in CCR to be up for en bloc then the price will be higher lol

personally, support level will be price Guccoland bought Leedon Height, which is $1062 per square foot per plot ratio including development charge. Also FH like Tulip. If owners want to sell at same price, think some developer will be quite keen.

http://lushhomemedia.com/2008/01/14/...eights-owners/