Property market sentiments 2011

[chiaberry]

CCR is self sufficient coz effects of cooling measures not hitting them as hard as OCR yet with the influx of rich foreigners coming in. However, I understand that developers in OCR are on the one hand, raising their prices cautiously, on the other hand, handing out lucky draws of winning a car (Benz). So they raise price and collect up to additional $100k per unit (from raised price) over say 20 units = $2m additional profit at the expense of one car say $180k. This is their back up plan. Market is still filled with demands waiting and watching and might just succumb to such promotional gimmicks... especially in OCR.

I note that in recent OCR launches there is a tendency for developers to put in less costly finishings in their units compared to before yet still selling at high prices and increasing their margins. PPl beware and take a careful note of your showflat and the type of tiles/cupboards/etc so that you are aware of what you are getting. I only noticed because I was renovating my old resale condo and therefore have a better idea what is the quality finishings. And MM OCR units are (seriously) small.

[mightyleftfoot]

Developers are not stupid when they bid for the land.
Somemore they have deep pockets to tahan any sharp downtrend.
But one bad call from small timers can make or break their whole life.
Buyer beware!

[devilplate]

stocks chiong again!!!

looks like the episode of japan nuclear crisis had ended???

abit too fast isnt it....sentiment is the strangest thing in the world

will STI able to hit 3500pts by end of yr? hehe....if so, ccr owners 3Xcheers!

[bargain hunter]

not been to any showflat nor been keeping track. but even those ppty consultants estimate mar sales to be less than feb. if that's the case, then the cooling measures are really starting to take effect?

just wondering how come mid flr skysuites not moving....

any latest update...

[azeoprop]

Just found out that streetsine.com don't provide free transaction data anymore!

[devilplate]

Just found out that streetsine.com don't provide free transaction data anymore!

i tink 3days ago oredi no more!

[devilplate]

not been to any showflat nor been keeping track. but even those ppty consultants estimate mar sales to be less than feb. if that's the case, then the cooling measures are really starting to take effect?

yes....latest cooling measure definitely got impact....4yrs SSD is the killer!

the strange thing is: HDB COV aso falls.....

[phantom_opera]

stocks chiong again!!!

looks like the episode of japan nuclear crisis had ended???

abit too fast isnt it....sentiment is the strangest thing in the world

will STI able to hit 3500pts by end of yr? hehe....if so, ccr owners 3Xcheers!

Thanks to drop of unemployment rate in the US to 8.8%, but resistance of Dow at 12,400 still not overcome yet ... till then, still range bound.

[amk]

stocks chiong again!!!

looks like the episode of japan nuclear crisis had ended???

abit too fast isnt it....sentiment is the strangest thing in the world

will STI able to hit 3500pts by end of yr? hehe....if so, ccr owners 3Xcheers!

today so far not much volume lah. will skid back easily.
although personally I'm positive on STI. 3500 by yr end, yes ! deeply vested.
pty not much fun now. measures this, measures that. dun even bother to sell/buy already. collect rent and just leave it. a friend of mine wanted to long some more last Dec. Then MBT killed the interest entirely.
Nowadays so much cash around, even finding some asset to invest also difficult.

[Laguna]

Nowadays so much cash around, even finding some asset to invest also difficult.

Ya, also looking around, US, London, HK, NZ, Aust...even Sri Lanka,

anyone has some stuff to share about overseas investment?

[ay123]

today so far not much volume lah. will skid back easily.
although personally I'm positive on STI. 3500 by yr end, yes ! deeply vested.
pty not much fun now. measures this, measures that. dun even bother to sell/buy already. collect rent and just leave it. a friend of mine wanted to long some more last Dec. Then MBT killed the interest entirely.
Nowadays so much cash around, even finding some asset to invest also difficult.

the best investment with so much cash now is loan shark. 20% return for every 6 weeks. no wonder lecturer also want to do.......

[azeoprop]

How to be a legal loan shark?

[teddybear]

You are right. D'Leedon is one one of them but in CCR!
But anyway, what do you expect when they are doing at $1600 psf? Give you high quality materials they will have to sell at $1900 psf!
So you know what have been ripped off when they buy at >$1000 psf with those cheap-skate materials (where you can total reno a resale to make it look like new at $60 psf!). Why pay for new so much vs resale for lousy materials which you have to totally replace 2-5 years later anyway?
Some more with people comparing OCR new vs CCR new with no regards to quality of materials and furnishing and said OCR better deal & cheaper (with cheap-skate materials) vs CCR with quality materials?

I note that in recent OCR launches there is a tendency for developers to put in less costly finishings in their units compared to before yet still selling at high prices and increasing their margins. PPl beware and take a careful note of your showflat and the type of tiles/cupboards/etc so that you are aware of what you are getting. I only noticed because I was renovating my old resale condo and therefore have a better idea what is the quality finishings. And MM OCR units are (seriously) small.

[chiaberry]

You are right. D'Leedon is one one of them but in CCR!
But anyway, what do you expect when they are doing at $1600 psf? Give you high quality materials they will have to sell at $1900 psf!
So you know what have been ripped off when they buy at >$1000 psf with those cheap-skate materials (where you can total reno a resale to make it look like new at $60 psf!). Why pay for new so much vs resale for lousy materials which you have to totally replace 2-5 years later anyway?
Some more with people comparing OCR new vs CCR new with no regards to quality of materials and furnishing and said OCR better deal & cheaper (with cheap-skate materials) vs CCR with quality materials?

Yeah....at least if you totally reno a resale you can select yr own materials. But with resale you have to cough up cash (or expensive reno loan) whereas with new unit it is included with the total sale price. Maybe that's one of the reasons why new units are so popular.

But sad to say it appears that cheap China tiles will find their way into new units.

[teddybear]

Whether you pay cash or in total sale price is still your money isn't it?
So why? Possible reasons may be:
1) Many of these buyers have no cash to do a renovation on a resale property, so they die die want to buy a new property (which they don't have to come out with so much cash for reno) and have everything in total sale price which they can take 80% loan.
2) Many are just flippers, new easier to flip, as long as nobody stay inside yet, haven't TOP better! Furthermore new launch takes almost 4 years to build, by then 4yrs SSD expire already. Also upfront if 2nd property don't have to come out with 40% (since on progressive payment depending on speed of construction, so come out only 20% first, just like with 80% loan).

Is it any wonder that I believe many OCR buyers buying at sky high $Psf prices are over-leveraging or/and flippers?

Yeah....at least if you totally reno a resale you can select yr own materials. But with resale you have to cough up cash (or expensive reno loan) whereas with new unit it is included with the total sale price. Maybe that's one of the reasons why new units are so popular.

But sad to say it appears that cheap China tiles will find their way into new units.

[JuzMe]

If there is currently genuine demand and everyone is holding back, expecting prices to drop, wouldn't that result in a pent-up demand situation 2 to 3 years later?

The current situation is that developers are cautious in raising prices due to the cooling measures and people's ability to fork out 40% cash/CPF. But, neither are they willing to lower prices since borrowing cost is low.

Perhaps developers have back up plans? If overseas buyers from say, China, form a significant part of the buyers pool, wouldn't that crowd out the Singaporeans in the future?

Exactly. 2-3 years down the road, you'll have Indian/China buyers staying in condos and Singaporeans staying in HDB

[ysyap]

Exactly. 2-3 years down the road, you'll have Indian/China buyers staying in condos and Singaporeans staying in HDB

HDB's initial goal 40 years back was to provide affordable and decent housing for every Singaporean. Objective met ... somewhat!

[fclim]

Exactly. 2-3 years down the road, you'll have Indian/China buyers staying in condos and Singaporeans staying in HDB

It's a 2 billion population market combined! The mass market property landscape will change with more middle income foreigners eyeing the cheaper mass market condos which they feel will give a better value for money. Since HDB rules no longer allow private ppty ownership, mass market is the next best thing.

This explains the higher percentage of foreign owners at the two extreme end of the market segments; mass market and luxury.

Mass market may no longer cater only to upgraders.

[bargain hunter]

yah. after the friday caveats were released! so sad.

i tink 3days ago oredi no more!

[ysyap]

It's a 2 billion population market combined! The mass market property landscape will change with more middle income foreigners eyeing the cheaper mass market condos which they feel will give a better value for money. Since HDB rules no longer allow private ppty ownership, mass market is the next best thing.

This explains the higher percentage of foreign owners at the two extreme end of the market segments; mass market and luxury.

Mass market may no longer cater only to upgraders.

Oh when they come and buy properties in Singapore pushing prices up. Then they sell back to Singaporeans at even higher prices. Just like Singapore buying water from our neighbor then selling that water back to the same neighbor after purifying it at higher cost to recover initial cost. . Welcome to the real world...

[JuzMe]

Oh when they come and buy properties in Singapore pushing prices up. Then they sell back to Singaporeans at even higher prices.

True. That's the scary part. Injection of foreign money driving property prices to sky rocket. Locals get caught in herd factor and end up paying and holding properties at peak of cycle. Sonner or later, foreign money will pull out of Singapore and locals will end up holding inflatted properties. Sad

[devilplate]

True. That's the scary part. Injection of foreign money driving property prices to sky rocket. Locals get caught in herd factor and end up paying and holding properties at peak of cycle. Sonner or later, foreign money will pull out of Singapore and locals will end up holding inflatted properties. Sad

so morale of the story.....follow the tide and earn a small portion of the smart $$$

[chiaberry]

so morale of the story.....follow the tide and earn a small portion of the smart $$$

These days, it is more risky to try and earn $$$ from flipping. There could be no buyers. It's like musical chairs. When the music stops (ie property market down-turn), I hope you are not the one holding it.

[devilplate]

These days, it is more risky to try and earn $$$ from flipping. There could be no buyers. It's like musical chairs. When the music stops (ie property market down-turn), I hope you are not the one holding it.

tats scary...y always tink of flipping prata?

ppty is for wealth accumulation.....gd and cheap...just keep

when px hit to a stage till cant resist...den perhaps offload one and spend the fruits....hehe

[chiaberry]

tats scary...y always tink of flipping prata?

ppty is for wealth accumulation.....gd and cheap...just keep

when px hit to a stage till cant resist...den perhaps offload one and spend the fruits....hehe

It's hard to resist though....greed.....always think prices will continue to go up until it's too late.


If offloading. don't spend. Wait patiently for next down turn and then you will have some capital to chiong.

[devilplate]

It's hard to resist though....greed.....always think prices will continue to go up until it's too late.


If offloading. don't spend. Wait patiently for next down turn and then you will have some capital to chiong.

paper money intrinsic value of ZERO if u not gona spend it....

[chiaberry]

paper money intrinsic value of ZERO if u not gona spend it....

Nope it's not zero if you cash out. You have the money (cash). You can invest in "safer" instruments (eg bonds) that can continue to give you interest until the next down turn. Then can pick up some bargains (hopefully).

haha if you want to spend it, it's up to you. Doing yr part to keep the economy buoyant.....But once you spend it (assuming it's pure spend and not investment) it really will be ZERO and you won't have any left for a down payment should a good opportunity come along.

[ysyap]

Nope it's not zero if you cash out. You have the money (cash). You can invest in "safer" instruments (eg bonds) that can continue to give you interest until the next down turn. Then can pick up some bargains (hopefully).

haha if you want to spend it, it's up to you. Doing yr part to keep the economy buoyant.....But once you spend it (assuming it's pure spend and not investment) it really will be ZERO and you won't have any left for a down payment should a good opportunity come along.

Your mentality traps u in this cycle... As much as u keep to strike when next chance to buy comes, use some for family or self, entertainment, etc... otherwise what's the pt of saving so hard and investing so much? Unless u saying save and invest for children....

[sh]

there's a saying, money is not yours until you spend it.....

Coming back to the issue of cashing out. How do you know if the market has topped? you don't. The market can continue to cheong after you sold.... Value of cash shrinking due to inflation.

So how? hang on property lor.... propertism.... the high will go higher... eventually.... Just make sure you have enough reserve for top up call from banks....

[DaytonaSS]

You are right. D'Leedon is one one of them but in CCR!
But anyway, what do you expect when they are doing at $1600 psf? Give you high quality materials they will have to sell at $1900 psf!
So you know what have been ripped off when they buy at >$1000 psf with those cheap-skate materials (where you can total reno a resale to make it look like new at $60 psf!). Why pay for new so much vs resale for lousy materials which you have to totally replace 2-5 years later anyway?
Some more with people comparing OCR new vs CCR new with no regards to quality of materials and furnishing and said OCR better deal & cheaper (with cheap-skate materials) vs CCR with quality materials?

marble on wall n floor will be $300 psf difference ah..... so much? So bros say in this thread or another $60 psf can renovate to sui sui le. how much to do up marble on floor?