Property market sentiments 2011

[rattydrama]

with 6 or 6.5m population working figure, pap govt will likely resume lax foreigner immigration after GE...


from 2001 to 2010, Spore's population increased by almost 23%
of this increase, just 7% is from citizens, while PR jumped 75% and Non-residents increased 60%

today Spore's population is made up of:
citizens = 63.64%
PR = 10.6%
non-residents = 25.71%

I think quietly there will be more PR converted citizens judging from the hearsay from different circles of friends.

[taggy]

I think quietly there will be more PR converted citizens judging from the hearsay from different circles of friends.

may i know why they wanted to change? for more childcare leaves? buy landed?

from PR turn to citizen... actually no affect property market much?
the most i can think, some can sell hdb resale and buy BTO/DBSS/EC?

[patricia]

may i know why they wanted to change? for more childcare leaves? buy landed?

from PR turn to citizen... actually no affect property market much?
the most i can think, some can sell hdb resale and buy BTO/DBSS/EC?

The garmen threaten/reconsider their PR application/renewal

[taggy]

The garmen threaten/reconsider their PR application/renewal

hmm... convert liao, if do not vote ruling party, become worst off right ?
(ok i m only joking here)

[rattydrama]

may i know why they wanted to change? for more childcare leaves? buy landed?

from PR turn to citizen... actually no affect property market much?
the most i can think, some can sell hdb resale and buy BTO/DBSS/EC?

they are in their 40s. If they lost their job as PR, they will have to go back to where they came from. Its more harder for older person to get a job and my friend doing managerial role yet have this thinking.

Living here for 20 years, they have already got use to Singapore lifestyle and big pay.

[hopeful]

The garmen threaten/reconsider their PR application/renewal

the government asking them to burn their bridges.
But then again, IMO, more to do with CPF withdrawal.
Once population hits 7million and the proportion of citizens and PRs fixed.
Incoming and outgoing PRs same.
Imagine if 100k PRs withdraw the CPF at 1 lump sum per year, while incoming PRs contribute monthly.
Outflow of capital from Singapore. And until how long can government stretch retirement age.... until 80 years old????

they are in their 40s. If they lost their job as PR, they will have to go back to where they came from. Its more harder for older person to get a job and my friend doing managerial role yet have this thinking.

Living here for 20 years, they have already got use to Singapore lifestyle and big pay.

Different issue between voluntarily becoming citizens and being forced too.
If they lived here for 20 years, and gotten used to it, won't they have already taken up citizenship when PR for 10 years instead of 20 years?

[Antz621]

can somebody help? Most expensive property in Singapore edition?

Most of people here, if not all, are property owners/investors/speculators?
How do you get your kids interested in property investment?

You should get your kids to play the board game "RAT RACE". It goes beyond property investment and will inculcate you to be a wiser investor from a more holistic point of view. Rules of Monopoly do not subscribe to fluctuating property cycles; it assumed a positive return on your investment which is never that ideal in the real world.

[rattydrama]

to hopeful:
nope cos they aren't forced to do that and they are happy to enjoy the flexibility of being a PR and SG and citizens in other part of the world. But now times change.

Why? their age is catching up and Singapore government might not want them if they're getting too old.

see the point?

[hopeful]

You should get your kids to play the board game "RAT RACE". It goes beyond property investment and will inculcate you to be a wiser investor from a more holistic point of view. Rules of Monopoly do not subscribe to fluctuating property cycles; it assumed a positive return on your investment which is never that ideal in the real world.

Thanks for the tip. I will check it out.
Just want the kids to know how money makes money. No need to work hard as employee. Be smart and prudent investor enough already. Street smart, not academic smart.

[Antz621]

valuation are bullshit. I buy below based at transcted price,not based at valuation

Yes. Valuation is bullshit. This bank don't valuate at the price you wana sell some others will. I just experienced this bullshit 2 weeks back and I must say the Malaysian banks are very aggressive nowadays!

[Regulators]

You should teach your kid to learn how to take the fall before you teach him to rise. A lot of investors out there cannot accept failures and later retreat into oblivion.

Thanks for the tip. I will check it out.
Just want the kids to know how money makes money. No need to work hard as employee. Be smart and prudent investor enough already. Street smart, not academic smart.

[hopeful]

to hopeful:
nope cos they aren't forced to do that and they are happy to enjoy the flexibility of being a PR and SG and citizens in other part of the world. But now times change.

Why? their age is catching up and Singapore government might not want them if they're getting too old.

see the point?

Sometime back in 3rd or 4th qtr 2009, SM Goh brought up the issue of forcing PRs to convert to SCs.
Not sure whether it is being implemented now

Actually if you don't leave Singapore, you are forever considered a PR.
What government doesn't renew is the Re-entry permit.
If government doesn't renew Re-entry permit and a PR leave Singapore, then that person loses PR status.
However if government doesn't renew Re-entry permit and that PR doesn't ever leave Singapore, then that person remains a PR.

What would that do to CPF funds if 100k PRs withdraw their CPF funds annually, after accumulating for 20-30 years?
Why else keep extending the retirement age?

Singapore government think very long term. IMO, they are much concern about cash flow out. Hence they force PR to convert to SC.

[Antz621]

Thanks for the tip. I will check it out.
Just want the kids to know how money makes money. No need to work hard as employee. Be smart and prudent investor enough already. Street smart, not academic smart.

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4479/ratrace

http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Cashf...4641121&sr=1-1

You can't get this game in Singapore; not even Toy R us. You gotta get it online via ebay or amazon. I played it once and I won on the first try. Introduced to do so by my insurance friend. I think it really helps to bring the message across on prudent investment!

Last but not least; yup be street smart.

[hopeful]

You should teach your kid to learn how to take the fall before you teach him to rise. A lot of investors out there cannot accept failures and later retreat into oblivion.

Don't worry, I am a believer in the School of Hard Knocks. But first, have to interest them in investing first. Show them what to live in poverty means (not Singapore poverty but 3rd world poverty) so they themselved develop the internal drive to succeed.

Haha, just like some top students from lousy primary schools, when they go to top secondary schools, they are at bottom of class. They never met real competition before.

[Regulators]

i grew up playing Risk and Romance of the 3 Kingdoms

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4479/ratrace

http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Cashf...4641121&sr=1-1

You can't get this game in Singapore; not even Toy R us. You gotta get it online via ebay or amazon. I played it once and I won on the first try. Introduced to do so by my insurance friend. I think it really helps to bring the message across on prudent investment!

Last but not least; yup be street smart.

[Antz621]

i grew up playing Risk and Romance of the 3 Kingdoms

Me too + Cluedo, Monopoly and of course Mad Magazine. Are you from Gen X era?

How I wished I had a chance to play Cash Flow aka Rat Race since young!

[taggy]

Me too + Cluedo, Monopoly and of course Mad Magazine. Are you from Gen X era?

How I wished I had a chance to play Cash Flow aka Rat Race since young!

i dun noe did my memory fail me or not, i remember in primary school, somebody brought this rat-race boardgame to play ( days after exam, but before school holidays)... still remember the game is something like, need to move to the centre.... ok i admit, i dun remember it thought me property investment (or maybe i didnt absorb it)

[taggy]

i grew up playing Risk and Romance of the 3 Kingdoms

anyone play this pc game, ultima 3,4,.... now dun now until what number liao

[Antz621]

i dun noe did my memory fail me or not, i remember in primary school, somebody brought this rat-race boardgame to play ( days after exam, but before school holidays)... still remember the game is something like, need to move to the centre.... ok i admit, i dun remember it thought me property investment (or maybe i didnt absorb it)

Yes that's the aim of the game; to elevate yourself socially and financially via a series of investments using the various tools and vehicles (not just property investment also got financial investment as well as business start-ups). As you moves towards the center of the board, it means you are closer towards attaining a higher level in the social class; all part of the RAT RACE that all of us are in right now

[hopeful]

Played Robert Kiyosaki's Cashflow 101 computer game. won't recommend it to my kids. So ridiculous once get out of the rat race, the earnings just kept on multiplying.

[Antz621]

anyone play this pc game, ultima 3,4,.... now dun now until what number liao

Only know Digger and Pac Man

[Antz621]

Played Robert Kiyosaki's Cashflow 101 computer game. won't recommend it to my kids. So ridiculous once get out of the rat race, the earnings just kept on multiplying.

Is it? software bug?

[hopeful]

Is it? software bug?

No. Once out of rat race track, I got into another track where each time, passed something, collect money like crazy

[hopeful]

Only know Digger and Pac Man

Haha, you played on apple 2e compatible.

[Antz621]

No. Once out of rat race track, I got into another track where each time, passed something, collect money like crazy

I see... That is because once you reached the highest level in the society your assets kick starts to work for you and you sit there collect $?

[Antz621]

Haha, you played on apple 2e compatible.

Ya. IBM X086 with 5.25" Floppy Disks! (<-Note not Discs!)

[hopeful]

I see... That is because once you reached the highest level in the society your assets kick starts to work for you and you sit there collect $?

yup, something like that. Dont know true or not, since not UHNW yet

[richwang]

their age is catching up and Singapore government might not want them if they're getting too old.

see the point?

My friend who is 62 has just converted to Singapore citizen. He was Malaysian and Singapore PR. He has been working here for 20 years. Plenty of CPF and own a fully paid HDB in Singapore. All his 3 daughters are working in Singapore now. The main reason he gave was medical subside given to PR is reducing very fast.

Age is not a problem if you have enough net assets to take care of yourself.

Thanks,
Richard

[rattydrama]

PR decides to be Singaporean for different reasons.
In my friend’s case, she is single and only owns a HDB. She is very comfortable to stay in Singapore and is not thinking of going back to her home country for retirement.

In your colleague case, it is because of health care cost and family.

I have a couple of friends converted purely because of family and better future for the kids and their confidence in Singaporean economy.

But the fact is if the garment decides to close the gate for older PR as it is deem that older people is a cost burden to the country, I do think that it will be difficult for this group to be Singaporean. The choice is from the SG garment and its immigration policy and not the individual. Take Australian for example, it was fairly easy until sometimes later they tighten the immigration rule. That will be the case for Singapore in future.

In most cases, most country will accept citizen for special skills set. They can help the economy rather than old sick person contributes the raising high care costs. For older worker, how much they can contribute? Not unless u are rich enough but for the general mass, I think still need to go through the normal channel to be a citizen.

My friend who is 62 has just converted to Singapore citizen. He was Malaysian and Singapore PR. He has been working here for 20 years. Plenty of CPF and own a fully paid HDB in Singapore. All his 3 daughters are working in Singapore now. The main reason he gave was medical subside given to PR is reducing very fast.

Age is not a problem if you have enough net assets to take care of yourself.

Thanks,
Richard

[hopeful]

PR decides to be Singaporean for different reasons.
In my friend’s case, she is single and only owns a HDB. She is very comfortable to stay in Singapore and is not thinking of going back to her home country for retirement.

In your colleague case, it is because of health care cost and family.

I have a couple of friends converted purely because of family and better future for the kids and their confidence in Singaporean economy.

But the fact is if the garment decides to close the gate for older PR as it is deem that older people is a cost burden to the country, I do think that it will be difficult for this group to be Singaporean. The choice is from the SG garment and its immigration policy and not the individual. Take Australian for example, it was fairly easy until sometimes later they tighten the immigration rule. That will be the case for Singapore in future.

In most cases, most country will accept citizen for special skills set. They can help the economy rather than old sick person contributes the raising high care costs. For older worker, how much they can contribute? Not unless u are rich enough but for the general mass, I think still need to go through the normal channel to be a citizen.

How is the elderly a cost burden to society? Is there a social security net in Singapore?
Let's say if elderly from abroad decide to retire in Singapore, they would bring in funds. Please look at conditions attached for Long Term Visit Pass.
1) own properties at least S$500k
2) savings S$400k park in Singapore rr
3) monthly min income S$7k or, if no income, combined 5 year equivalent income S$400k.
4) buy medical insurance in Singapore.
to renew at the end of 5 years, must satisfy point 1 to 4.

Please la, Singapore government not so stupid.
If PR remains within Singapore, his PR is permanent.
Only re-entry permit is renewed, not PR.

Look at CPF withdrawals. If population 7m is reached and outflow and inflow of PRs constant per year.
100k withdraw 200k worth of CPF funds each is S$20billion ouflow from Singapore. I believe if work for 20 years, 200k is easily achievable.
So why should they force PRs out when they are old, if PRs are forced out, they bring their CPF funds with them.
Singapore govt are trying ways to convert PRs to SCs.