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Thread: New EC next to Mass Market Condo

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    Default New EC next to Mass Market Condo

    From the land sales announcement, 4 EC sites are available. The EC sites are near MRT stations which is rare in the past.

    I would like to ask experts here on the impact of new EC next to a underconstruction condo or ready built condo. Views please.

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    http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyingNewFlatModeEC?OpenDocument

    Overview

    Executive Condominiums (EC) were introduced to cater to Singaporeans, especially young graduates and professionals who can afford more than an HDB flat but find private property to be out of their reach. ECs are comparable in design and facilities to private condominiums as they are developed and sold by the private developers.

    ECs from Developers

    ECs are developed and sold by private developers. You can contact the developers directly for more information on EC projects

    Sales of ECs in Open Market

    EC owners may sell their apartment in the open market after complying withthe minimum occupation period from the Temporary Occupation Period (TOP) date.

    Eligibility conditions for buyers of ECs in the open market

    The TOP dates for the various EC projects are given below.

    EC Project Location TOP Date

    Eastvale Pasir Ris Drive 3 27 Jan 1999

    Westmere Jurong East Street 13 27 Feb 1999

    Simei Green Simei Street 4 28 Apr 1999

    Windermere Choa Chu Kang Street 64 16 Sep 1999

    Chestervale Bangkit Road 20 Mar 1999

    Pinevale Tampines Street 73 28 Jul 1999

    Yew Mei Green Choa Chu Kang North 6 01 Sep 2000

    Summerdale Boon Lay Drive 08 Sep 2000

    The Rivervale Rivervale Link 28 Jun 2000

    The Florida Hougang Avenue 7*18 Feb 2000 30 May 2000

    Northoaks Woodlands Crescent 03 Oct 2000

    Woodsvale Woodands Drive 72 05 Aug 2000

    The Floravale Westwood Avenue (Jurong West) 13 Oct 2000

    The Eden Tampines Street 34 16 Apr 2003

    The Dew Bt Batok Street 21 19 Jul 2003

    Bishan Loft Bishan Street 11 26 Sep 2003

    Lilydale Yishun Avenue 6 29 Mar 2003

    Nuovo Ang Mo Kio Avenue 9 #31 Aug 2004

    Park Green Rivervale Link 30 Sep 2004

    Whitewater Pasir Ris Street 72*31 Jan 2005 01 Mar 2005

    The Esparis Pasir Ris Drive 4 # 22 Jun 2005

    The Quintet Choa Chu Kang Street 64 23 Oct 2006

    La Casa Woodlands Drive 16* 22 Feb 2008


    * Project received phased TOP:
    • Florida (TFD)
        • Phase 1 consists of Blocks 70 & 78, TOP 18 Feb 2000.
        • Phase 2 consists of Blocks 72 & 76, TOP 30 May 2000.

    • Whitewater (WEC)
        • Phase 1 consists of Blocks 27, 29, 31, 33, TOP on 31 Jan 2005.
        • Phase 2 consists of Blocks 21, 23 & 25, TOP on 1 Mar 2005.

    • La Casa
        • Phase 1 consists of Blocks 50, 52, 54, 56 & 58 on 22 Feb 2008.
        • Phase 2 consists of Blocks 60, 62, 64, 66 & 68 on 25 Apr 2008.
    # Certificate of Statutory Completion (CSC)
    Last Updated on 19 Jan 2010
    Last edited by kingkong1984; 30-11-10 at 13:05.

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    Default 30% Gap is correct?

    http://sbr.com.sg/property/news/exec...ve-year-hiatus

    PROPERTY | Tony Chua, Singapore
    Published: 13 Aug 10


    | More





    Executive Condominium market makes comeback after 5-year hiatus


    Yet HDB upgraders looking for new projects below $900 psf had fewer choices in the first half of 2010.

    The Executive Condominium (EC) market looks set to stir when new EC projects are launched over the next three to six months. Four new EC projects in Compassvale Bow, Punggol Field, Buangkok and Yishun yielding some 1,400 units will be launched in the next three to six months. These sites were awarded in the first half of 2010. The government will also be selling another five EC sites later in the year – at Jurong West, Punggol Drive, Elias/ Pasir Ris, Tampines and Segar Road which are expected to launch about another 2,600 EC units.

    Executive Condominiums are making a comeback after a hiatus of five years as the government steps in to ramp up flat supply for middle-income home buyers. The last new EC launched was La Casa in Woodlands in 2005, which was completed in early 2008. Its comparatively less expensive pricing is expected to attract a large number of HDB upgraders, according to a CBRE Research report.

    Li Hiaw Ho, Executive Director, CBRE Research said, “Given the tender bid prices for the residential sites in recent months, developers are not likely to reduce prices of the new private homes. HDB upgraders looking to buy affordable new homes can look to the new supply of EC units within the next 12 months. Assuming the historical 30 percent gap between private suburban homes and new ECs remain, median prices of new ECs are likely to stay around $650 psf to $750 psf. The prices of ECs will match those of comparable private apartments in the same locations after five years, as they will be treated as private properties.”

    Currently, the non- landed, private home market is attracting a lower share of HDB upgraders compared to 2009. HDB upgraders accounted for 36.1 per cent of private non-landed new home purchases in 2Q 2010. At its peak in Q1 last year, the proportion of HDB upgraders reached 63.6 per cent but it has steadily declined below the 10- year average of 44 per cent. In the first half of 2010, HDB upgraders’ share of non- landed private homes was 36.9 per cent compared to 45.4 per cent in the whole of 2009.
    The median price of a newly launched, 99- year leasehold private home in suburban locations grew by 26.7 percent from a year ago to reach $824 psf in Q2 2010. The official URA price index also registered a 30 percent gain for overall private condominiums during the same period.

    HDB upgraders looking for new projects below $900 psf had fewer choices in 1H 2010 compared to last year. Mass-market projects launched in 1H 2010 were mostly in outlying suburban locations such as Tree House at Bukit Panjang (Q2 10), The Minton at Hougang (Q2 10) and The Estuary at Yishun (Q1 10). In 1H 2009, HDB upgraders had a wider range of mass-market projects to choose from, such as Caspian at Lakeside, Double Bay Residences at Simei, Livia and Oasis@Elias at Pasir Ris, The Quartz at Compassvale and Waterfront Waves at Bedok Reservoir,
    8@Woodleigh at Woodleigh, Oasis@Elias at Pasir Ris, Rosewood Suites at Rosewood Drive and Mi Casa at Choa Chu Kang. Other mass-market projects launched in 2H 2009 included Optima@Tanah Merah, Waterfront Key at Bedok Reservoir, The Gale at Flora Road and Wembly Residences at Yio Chu Kang.

    Mr Li explained “With the steep rise in prices of new private homes, more HDB upgraders face a bigger burden of servicing huge mortgage loans. The lowering of the housing loan limit from 90 per cent to 80 per cent since March this year also meant that HDB home buyers need to pay more cash upfront. Despite this, potential HDB upgraders can find a less costly alternative with the upcoming Executive Condominiums.”

    Executive condos were introduced in 1996 when private home prices were at their peak, to cater to the needs of the “sandwich class”. This group of “sandwich class” refers to buyers who could not afford private properties, but whose household incomes exceed the income ceiling set by HDB for new flats. An EC is similar to private condominiums in terms of facilities and amenities. Buying requirements are similar to those for new HDB flats, except that the monthly household income must not exceed $10,000.

    Since 2007, the government has made it easier for first- time buyers and HDB upgraders to own an EC unit. 95 percent of the EC supply will be set aside for first- time flat buyers during the first month of sale. Families who have previously bought a new HDB flat will no longer have to pay a resale levy – ranging from $15,000 to $50,000 – when they buy a new EC flat.

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    no one really replied.

    Anyway my conclusion is this.

    After 10 years, EC deflates nearby pte properties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkong1984
    no one really replied.

    Anyway my conclusion is this.

    After 10 years, EC deflates nearby pte properties.
    I think the mm condos will help the ec to appreciate faster...to me a bad deal for those mm as their neighbours..nowadays features of ec almost quite on par with mm..so buyers don' t really sense much diff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chonngpang
    I think the mm condos will help the ec to appreciate faster...to me a bad deal for those mm as their neighbours..nowadays features of ec almost quite on par with mm..so buyers don' t really sense much diff
    actually EC's are better. The best ones are the 1 bedders in full condo dev with proper swimming pool. That will kill the MMs that are not near to MRTs.

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    30% gap for new ECs versus Private new launch. $950 psf after discount of 30% is $665psf. I think it's what is being priced now. When the ECs came to the market by the government, the developers use this opportunity to launch their private condo at higher prices.

    Deflate? I don't think so. Just look at The Quartz, it drives the price up for The Rivervale and Park Green.

    Why Eight Courtyards flew off the shelves is because it is price much lesser than the 30% gap.

    Look at the other launches, they are all price 30% higher than the new ECs.

    In summary, ECs actually made developers price their new private launches even higher due to historic benchmarking.

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    Its very subjective... when demand is there, EC's presence will simply drive private condo prices up. However, when the market is not doing well, EC's presence can effectively drive private condo prices down! However, this can only be true for ECs which are > 10 years old. New ECs still have relatively low threat or influence on private condos!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkong1984
    no one really replied.

    Anyway my conclusion is this.

    After 10 years, EC deflates nearby pte properties.
    no need 10 years.. 5 years mop can liao.. not many foreigners are into ec's locations, so no need to wait for full 10 years..

    Anyway, EC might not necessarily deflate PC prices. In generally good economy, both EC and PC should appreciate but EC's appreciation will be much faster. Eg, in sengkang, park green (EC) prices are now 7xx psf.. Rivervale crescent (pc) prices are also 7xxpsf.. Both are near LRT and not MRT.. rivervale crescent is 2-3 years older but it is 10metres away from a shopping mall.. so conclusion is their prices will converge to become same, but EC will appreciate a lot..

    Let's talk about the ECs that are hot in the market now.. For the respective neighbouring pte condos, they should be divided into 2 categories, (1) launched before news of EC site tender by hdb/ura
    (2) launched after EC

    For (1), egs are properties like livia, quartz.. so far, there are no signs of them dropping in prices.. maybe because it is still a good 8 years before the MOP finishes, so livia and quartz buyers still can't be bothered..

    For (2), will developers take into account of this and bid lower for the land, thus lower launch price??? So far evidences seem to indicate no too.. Recent land bid beside austville is 391psf.. At that price, i feel it is quite a reasonable bid as that piece of land is worse than austville because it is further away from lrt station, amenities plaza, punggol park and it's surrounded on 3 sides by main roads.. But it got an almost similar psf land bid as MCL's Jalan Loyang Besar / Pasir Ris Drive 4 site which has seaview! So, again, there is no evidence yet to suggest neighbouring condo sites are suffering in land bids..

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    Quote Originally Posted by solsys
    30% gap for new ECs versus Private new launch. $950 psf after discount of 30% is $665psf. I think it's what is being priced now. When the ECs came to the market by the government, the developers use this opportunity to launch their private condo at higher prices.

    Deflate? I don't think so. Just look at The Quartz, it drives the price up for The Rivervale and Park Green.

    Why Eight Courtyards flew off the shelves is because it is price much lesser than the 30% gap.

    Look at the other launches, they are all price 30% higher than the new ECs.

    In summary, ECs actually made developers price their new private launches even higher due to historic benchmarking.
    ur examples are current peaks. Go look at last massive supply of ECs prior to crash in 97 cycle.

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    I think those that is near MRT should grab since after 10 years, sure have sufficient takers. On top of this, you are buying at price which is 15% cheaper.

    The design of the new ECs is comparable to mass market condo. Those older ECs looks not much dif from HDBs design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rattydrama
    I think those that is near MRT should grab since after 10 years, sure have sufficient takers. On top of this, you are buying at price which is 15% cheaper.

    The design of the new ECs is comparable to mass market condo. Those older ECs looks not much dif from HDBs design.
    Good point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkong1984
    ur examples are current peaks. Go look at last massive supply of ECs prior to crash in 97 cycle.
    I look at it in a different way from you. EC prices serve as a support level such that private condo prices won't fall below it.

    If ECs don't exist, when crash happens, u will see private condos correct to jet above HDB prices. That will be very awful.

    ECs act as a support and buffer when the awful thing happens.

    Deflate is too harsh a word to use. Pressured by ECs or influenced by is more appropriate.

    There are exceptions for the older ECs as some of them are better designed and does not sound as bad as some of you mentioned.

    If you we look at the recent ECs launched, they match the standard of private condos launched few yrs ago, but if you compare them to the more recent private launches, you can see that there are more distinctive theme to justify the price premium over ECs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solsys
    I look at it in a different way from you. EC prices serve as a support level such that private condo prices won't fall below it.

    If ECs don't exist, when crash happens, u will see private condos correct to jet above HDB prices. That will be very awful.

    ECs act as a support and buffer when the awful thing happens.

    Deflate is too harsh a word to use. Pressured by ECs or influenced by is more appropriate.

    There are exceptions for the older ECs as some of them are better designed and does not sound as bad as some of you mentioned.

    If you we look at the recent ECs launched, they match the standard of private condos launched few yrs ago, but if you compare them to the more recent private launches, you can see that there are more distinctive theme to justify the price premium over ECs.
    Good observation.. EC is to OCR what OCR is to CCR, a buffer and a price check! The new EC launches also have strong themes now. Check out Austville and Esparina! Its probably just that private condos have more defined and distinctive themes which stands out more!!! Well, developers certainly won't spoil their own playground when they launch ECs. They will certainly ensure its a tier below private condo lah!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkong1984
    Good point.
    its difficult to time the market and we have only few bullets.. so only focus on the real good deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solsys
    I look at it in a different way from you. EC prices serve as a support level such that private condo prices won't fall below it.

    If ECs don't exist, when crash happens, u will see private condos correct to jet above HDB prices. That will be very awful.

    ECs act as a support and buffer when the awful thing happens.

    Deflate is too harsh a word to use. Pressured by ECs or influenced by is more appropriate.

    There are exceptions for the older ECs as some of them are better designed and does not sound as bad as some of you mentioned.

    If you we look at the recent ECs launched, they match the standard of private condos launched few yrs ago, but if you compare them to the more recent private launches, you can see that there are more distinctive theme to justify the price premium over ECs.
    u got see b4 thin man support big man before? The heavy dudes are usually below man. EC only so few, how to support the whole OCR market? When OCR drops, EC just drops also lah. More like to see HDB price supporting the OCR condos. When they converage enough, pple buy in Condo for HDB upgraders.

    some more got MOP, how to support? Wanna ran also cannot lor

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaytonaSS
    u got see b4 thin man support big man before? The heavy dudes are usually below man. EC only so few, how to support the whole OCR market? When OCR drops, EC just drops also lah. More like to see HDB price supporting the OCR condos. When they converage enough, pple buy in Condo for HDB upgraders.

    some more got MOP, how to support? Wanna ran also cannot lor
    Its not so much thin man big man concept lah! EC's number may be way way below number of private condos or HDB but it's price is artificially enforced! Income ceiling already tells the story le. It is priced between HDB and private condo. Its that bridge between HDB and private condo. This is govt's idea. Anyway this is only true for new launches. After 10 years, when ECs can be sold to foreigners too, its a common playing field le so not much different by then...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    Its not so much thin man big man concept lah! EC's number may be way way below number of private condos or HDB but it's price is artificially enforced! Income ceiling already tells the story le. It is priced between HDB and private condo. Its that bridge between HDB and private condo. This is govt's idea. Anyway this is only true for new launches. After 10 years, when ECs can be sold to foreigners too, its a common playing field le so not much different by then...
    3+10 is 13 yrs. Mkt already go thru 2 cycles maybe. 3+5 also maybe miss first cycle to ran or huat. . EC merely let pple whom cannot comfortably afford OCR Private condo to buy n stay. There is min effect in price supporting as u can't react to market. If can find EC gems near to MRT faster grab Loh. Best if far east is nearby

    More than 15years I m not so sure if pple still keen. After 20 years harder to find buyers n bank loan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    Good observation.. EC is to OCR what OCR is to CCR, a buffer and a price check! The new EC launches also have strong themes now. Check out Austville and Esparina! Its probably just that private condos have more defined and distinctive themes which stands out more!!! Well, developers certainly won't spoil their own playground when they launch ECs. They will certainly ensure its a tier below private condo lah!!!
    I beg to differ. The quality of some ECs are way better than some condos. 10 years passed, and they are still highly sought after unlike some PCs which have fallen apart.

    ECs need to have quality on par or higher than that of HDBs, while PCs really depends on how drastic the developer's cost cutting measures are (remember the quality of mass condos built by FEO 10yrs ago?)

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    Yup.. most of these EC owners if after MOP, got cash, will just sell and upgrade to private condos. If no cash, just guai guai stay put and continue to enjoy the cheaper condo (so to speak)!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    Yup.. most of these EC owners if after MOP, got cash, will just sell and upgrade to private condos. If no cash, just guai guai stay put and continue to enjoy the cheaper condo (so to speak)!
    I think they move becos of location. Sell after MOP confirm have cash. Agree, they are the real winners

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantrix
    I think they move becos of location. Sell after MOP confirm have cash. Agree, they are the real winners
    Yes... EC owners are the ultimate winners... prices will sure climb, just like HDB... plus got better finishings than some of the CMI PCs! However, I won't want to buy an EC and then lock myself in for another 5 years. Just don't make sense. Potentially miss the boat within the next cycle!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    Yes... EC owners are the ultimate winners... prices will sure climb, just like HDB... plus got better finishings than some of the CMI PCs! However, I won't want to buy an EC and then lock myself in for another 5 years. Just don't make sense. Potentially miss the boat within the next cycle!!!
    Buy resale...after 5 years can buy
    Then keep for another 5, sell after 10 years to foreigners

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantrix
    Buy resale...after 5 years can buy
    Then keep for another 5, sell after 10 years to foreigners
    Can I buy resale EC if I own a HDB? If cannot, then no point selling my HDB for $600k and pay another $300k to get a resale EC whose rental may only be about $1k more than my HDB flat!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    Can I buy resale EC if I own a HDB? If cannot, then no point selling my HDB for $600k and pay another $300k to get a resale EC whose rental may only be about $1k more than my HDB flat!!!
    Well...if you own a HDB you can't own any pte properties.

    Might as well sell and move into the EC for cap appreciation - besides you are also free to own other pte properties

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantrix
    Well...if you own a HDB you can't own any pte properties.

    Might as well sell and move into the EC for cap appreciation - besides you are also free to own other pte properties
    Selah!!! HDB owners can buy private properties. Its private property owners who cannot buy HDB under the latest CM4 rule!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantrix
    Well...if you own a HDB you can't own any pte properties.

    Might as well sell and move into the EC for cap appreciation - besides you are also free to own other pte properties
    After Hdb mop period, Hdb owner can buy pte property without selling the Hdb.

    The rule that is unclear here is: for buying resale ec that is 5 to 10yr old, does the buyer need to sell away his existing Hdb? I guess he need to, cause I thought this category of ec have similar rule as resale Hdb flats. Only when ec cross 10 yr old, then rule follow that of pte condos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taggy
    After Hdb mop period, Hdb owner can buy pte property without selling the Hdb.

    The rule that is unclear here is: for buying resale ec that is 5 to 10yr old, does the buyer need to sell away his existing Hdb? I guess he need to, cause I thought this category of ec have similar rule as resale Hdb flats. Only when ec cross 10 yr old, then rule follow that of pte condos.
    Can still keep hdb

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    Quote Originally Posted by devilplate
    Can still keep hdb

    hmm in this case, then it make sense for hdb owner to look at 5-10yr old ec for investment or upgrading.

    -> stay in resale ec, rent out hdb
    -> continue stay in hdb, rent out resale ec (i assume can rent out whole unit immediately?)

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