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Thread: Which TK devt is still considered a value-buy now?

  1. #1
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    Default Which TK devt is still considered a value-buy now?

    Hi, I need some advice. I'm looking to get a unit in TK lor N area as I wish for my boy to study in Tao nan pri. However, it seems most of the TK units around there seem to be asking for very steep prices, as compared to caveats lodged recently.

    If I pay 1.1m for a small 3-bedder (@ probably 900psf) in this current market, do you think there will still be any upside to it? What devt would you recommend which is nice to stay, and yet still priced within reasonable value?

    My instincts tell me prices may drop a little next yr, but there are mkt sentiments which predict prices to continue to head north. Should I get it now, or wait till mid of 2011? Any experts here, pls shed some light?

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    Quote Originally Posted by penguin
    Hi, I need some advice. I'm looking to get a unit in TK lor N area as I wish for my boy to study in Tao nan pri. However, it seems most of the TK units around there seem to be asking for very steep prices, as compared to caveats lodged recently.

    If I pay 1.1m for a small 3-bedder (@ probably 900psf) in this current market, do you think there will still be any upside to it? What devt would you recommend which is nice to stay, and yet still priced within reasonable value?

    My instincts tell me prices may drop a little next yr, but there are mkt sentiments which predict prices to continue to head north. Should I get it now, or wait till mid of 2011? Any experts here, pls shed some light?
    Hi,
    'The Lucent' and 'The Ambrosia' are very nice development along Lor N, within 1km from Tao Nan and also adjacent to the Park Connector.
    The Ambrosia should be TOPing very soon and The Lucent should TOP mid next year.
    The Lucent has more unit size ranges (from 2bedder to 5 bedder) but I think the Ambrosia has only 3 bedder and above and priced higher.
    Both are developed by 'Roxy Land'.
    Price should range between $950 to $1100 PSF now.
    Have you considered renting instead of buying?

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    If you're buying solely for Tao Nan - then "value creation" is not a primary objective. In short, just buy the cheapest unit. Lots of MM there at very affordable absolute quantum. Please note Tao Nan has no affiliation - so in my mind, not worth the trouble. To each his own.

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    rambo,

    Yes, The Lucent did catch my eye, but its fully sold out and the resale is flipping at a much higher psf than last caveat lodged. So I do not think it's worth it, or there will be any more upside to this devt, thought its nice. I am looking at resale units about 5yrs old, but many are so small (less than 20 units) that worries me, as I stayed in one before and didnt like how the devt was run by own residents.

    I won't rent as I never liked the idea of renting without a roof over my head. Never know how the property market will go, plus this is for own stay, so no point taking this gamble, am I right? Unless you have very strong instincts the market will drop by at least 20-30% after 1-2yrs. But no one can predict so far ahead.

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    Wildfalcon,

    Seems you dont have a very good impression of Tao Nan eh? But its a good school, esp the way the school is run by this current principal.
    Well, since we are going to move back to the east (stayed there before and liked it), plus we need to get a good school for our boy, so thats why we narrowed down the search to TK Lor N area. Don't like the St patricks area.
    And how to squeeze one family into a MM? haha...i don't think I can survive for long. I am already down sizing from 1400+sqft house to 1200+ sqft. But seems like many devts in TK have 1000-1100+sqft 3 bedders, which I thought seemed quite pathetically small.

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    Penguin,

    Have you read that the 2nd top PSLE student this year was from Tao Nan? That school is definitely one of the top primary schools in Singapore with good reputation. Unless you are going for affiliations with the fear that your boy needs that relationship later to get into a good secondary school (then go for ACS schools), Tao Nan will be a good choice around the East side.

    I read your comments and feel that you need to distinguish your priority amongst your needs. If it is all about your son, then you should just get the most affordable/cheapest unit available that allows you to continue to live your lifestyle. Why not get a HDB here? The HDBs in Marine Parade and Marine Terrace are all good units. Why not buy a typical 5-room resale flat and renovate it?

    If investment is your priority, there is no question where the main block of the potential is - go for anything around the block defined at 4 corners by Parc Seabreeze (SE), Katong Mall (NE), Shore Residences (NW) and Seaview (SW). The recent collective sale of Paramount Hotel in that block indicates a possibility of that area appreciating to $2,000psf if it is a freehold property, in the near future. Unless they demolish Parkway Parade and the entire Marine Parade Central, this area is very attractive to live in because of the proximity to all the amenities, including a new cinema at Katong Mall. If the price is too steep, you can also check out Joo Chiat/Tembeling area as long as it is not way too far from the Marine Parade area, taking Katong Mall as the epi-centre.

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    Penguin I fully understand ur situation. Trying to buy a home for the child, and at the same time as a reasonable home to live. Life is not just abt money.

    TK area, over the years, has been transformed into a collection of tiny projects with MM units. 1100 sqft 3bd is not really livable for a real family with growing kids. I'm afraid u have no choice but to look at better and bigger projects. Those will cost more right now. However if u can afford, I think since u will be there for 10 yrs, it's still worthwhile. It's a home after all. They keyword is affordability though. Dun stretch too much. But dun be over conservative. U r still young. Consider your future earnings.

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    It's good to give the best to the children. But staying next to a good school does not guarantee a place in the school. I know someone who bought Duchess which is in front of Tao nan when their child is only 3 years old. One will still have to ballot unless they have siblings, old boys or old girls. There are always weaker students in good schools. These weaker students who do not do well in their PSLE will be worst off if there is no affiliation to any secondary school. Even some with affiliation to secondary school but do not meet the minimum score will also be caught. Bottom line, know the children capacity and make the best choice for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    It's good to give the best to the children. But staying next to a good school does not guarantee a place in the school. I know someone who bought Duchess which is in front of Tao nan when their child is only 3 years old. One will still have to ballot unless they have siblings, old boys or old girls. There are always weaker students in good schools. These weaker students who do not do well in their PSLE will be worst off if there is no affiliation to any secondary school. Even some with affiliation to secondary school but do not meet the minimum score will also be caught. Bottom line, know the children capacity and make the best choice for them.
    It is true that staying next to a good school does not guarantee a place in that school, but as parents, we will always want to maximize the chances for our children. The chances of them doing better in studies in good schools are higher. If you feel that your son/daughter is at the bottom of his cohort, I will be surprised if you prefer to put him in a lousy school to 'keep him in his place', rather than try to put him in an environment for him to catch up with others. I believe that good schools are successful because they have good teaching/learning environments and can offer better chances of our children to get good grades. This might sound selfish but I prefer to have the last laugh when my son aces in a good school than to ace as a dark horse in an average or below average school. Not only do I want him in a good primary school, I will move if it helps him get into a better secondary school later on, and will move again if this helps him get into a good jc.

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    I do not mean lousy schools. You should look for good schools from primary to college. The affiliation does help students to progress to the next level as they are required less points as compared to those who have no affiliation. I agree that good school offer better chances but it depends on the raw material, ie. child's capacity. Some very good schools will indirectly ask parents to get tutors' they could not keep up with the class. At the end of the day, both the parents and the child will be stressed.
    Quote Originally Posted by reuters
    It is true that staying next to a good school does not guarantee a place in that school, but as parents, we will always want to maximize the chances for our children. The chances of them doing better in studies in good schools are higher. If you feel that your son/daughter is at the bottom of his cohort, I will be surprised if you prefer to put him in a lousy school to 'keep him in his place', rather than try to put him in an environment for him to catch up with others. I believe that good schools are successful because they have good teaching/learning environments and can offer better chances of our children to get good grades. This might sound selfish but I prefer to have the last laugh when my son aces in a good school than to ace as a dark horse in an average or below average school. Not only do I want him in a good primary school, I will move if it helps him get into a better secondary school later on, and will move again if this helps him get into a good jc.

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    Hi Reuters,

    Yes, I agree with you. I do not need affliations to secondary schools as I think it would be better to peg that to my boy's results. Tao Nan is ranked 5th based on number of high scorers for PSLE, plus this principal is the very 'on' type which I like. I actually think the devts near Katong mall still have upside potential, and am also considering them. Parc Seabreeze is out of my budget. I did consider HDB too, but thought that would be my last choice if I am priced out of all the private properties there.

    I am actually overseas till 2012 June, and just sold my condo at Serangoon central area. So I have to made a decision whether to buy another place now, or wait till 2012 when I am back in Singapore. My instints tell me prices will stabilise or fall slightly, but lately there has been mkt sentiments for prices to rise next yr, which worries me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    I do not mean lousy schools. You should look for good schools from primary to college. The affiliation does help students to progress to the next level as they are required less points as compared to those who have no affiliation. I agree that good school offer better chances but it depends on the raw material, ie. child's capacity. Some very good schools will indirectly ask parents to get tutors' they could not keep up with the class. At the end of the day, both the parents and the child will be stressed.
    I guess I will rather be stressed but have higher chances for good results than not to get stressed and risk my child's potential for good results. But that is just me as others prefer to take their own pace. The topic here started because of Penguin's interest to enroll the child in Tao Nan, so if he agrees that this is not important, he should look at Woodlands/Pasir Ris/Yishun, etc. The apartments there are big and more affordable. But he has to be content and happy with the schools located there and not get stressed by anything, and not employ any tutors - just let his son/daughter learn at his/her pace and only if they want.

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    amk,

    I would love to get a spacious unit, but looking at propertyguru, it seems they are all asking sky-high prices (some almost the same psf as a 1100sqft unit in the same devt) - definitely way way higher than last transaction lodged. I wonder are these sellers just trying to test the market or do they genuienly think property prices are rising so fast that their unit can command that premium.

    Currently, we are taking abt 30% loan, so actually we can afford a larger unit but that would mean stretching our loan tenure. But I am thinking of just sticking to around the same price as what we sold our unit for, as I don't quite like the idea of a huge home loan. If we can find a good value unit - even if it's big and more pricey, I think it's worth the consideration. But if asking prices do not change, I think we have to end up with a 1200+sqft unit.

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    DC33 2008,

    I am all ready to be a Parent-Volunteer or even join GR! (I'm the mummy) haha.. I heard the latter is a sure-get-in, or 99% chance. Anyway, talking abt stress, Im sure Tao nan will have it's fair share of stress, judging from the way the school system is. I have heard of teachers asking the poorer students to get tutors. I am confident my boy will be comfortable in Tao Nan. I believe some pressure will do kids good; make them more ambitious and motivated to excel is a good trait. I never like my boy to be in his comfort-zone for too long. But I have to agree with you - parents who send their kids to top schools have to be mentally prepared for the stress, and must be very involved in their kid's schoolwork.

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    Ok, to get back in track - I really hope I can get some feedback from u guys on whether I should get a unit near Tao Nan now, 2010, or end 2012, when I return back to Singapore. (Considering the sky-high asking prices now in that area. Are devts in TK really worth that much?) Really appreciate your comments here, good or bad.

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    If buying the property is solely for primary school purpose, may want to watch the trend for the phase 2B and 2C balloting for the next 1-2 yr since you can wait. For this year, it is the first that TNS required balloting w/i 1 km for phase 2B. Phase 2B for TNS is open not just for grass root, PV, but also SHHK members. So, with condos sprouting up around the whole of D15, i would imagine that things would only be more competitive. Do you have a backup plan if you don't get phase 2B for TNS ?? NG primary is next door but some developments in TK lies at the periphery of the 1 km radius...

    This primary school business is getting crazier.. too bad no one's going to do anything about it. Most of our political elite hails from "popular" schools and would be more than happy to keep the status quo. MM already said that too bad for you no level playing field in pri school, can try our luck though after PSLE....

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    Quote Originally Posted by penguin
    Ok, to get back in track - I really hope I can get some feedback from u guys on whether I should get a unit near Tao Nan now, 2010, or end 2012, when I return back to Singapore. (Considering the sky-high asking prices now in that area. Are devts in TK really worth that much?) Really appreciate your comments here, good or bad.
    Actually as long as it is a good school, it need not be Tao Nan right? What about Rosyth, Ai Tong, ACS Junior, Henry Park, etc? Of course there is also Nanyang Pri (which I heard is stressful). If you really want an apartment within 1km from Tao Nan, be prepared that the side towards Amber Road will continue to be more expensive. That area is already prime, and there is still potential (let's not forget this is already popular without MRT. By the time you buy at 2012, if an MRT station is really announced there, I don't think you stand a chance to buy anymore). I think if you can find a small development at $900 to $1,000psf along Telok Kurau, you should go for it. But there is a difference between Telok Kurau and the other side so capital appreciation won't be that much. You need to decide if the size and needs are more important or investment potential. If it is about investment, try getting on at Amber/Meyer Road. Or check out those near Joo Chiat area, like Spring@katong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by penguin
    Ok, to get back in track - I really hope I can get some feedback from u guys on whether I should get a unit near Tao Nan now, 2010, or end 2012, when I return back to Singapore. (Considering the sky-high asking prices now in that area. Are devts in TK really worth that much?) Really appreciate your comments here, good or bad.
    i would wait

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    I suppose it is better to have hope rather than no hope at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by reuters
    I guess I will rather be stressed but have higher chances for good results than not to get stressed and risk my child's potential for good results. But that is just me as others prefer to take their own pace. The topic here started because of Penguin's interest to enroll the child in Tao Nan, so if he agrees that this is not important, he should look at Woodlands/Pasir Ris/Yishun, etc. The apartments there are big and more affordable. But he has to be content and happy with the schools located there and not get stressed by anything, and not employ any tutors - just let his son/daughter learn at his/her pace and only if they want.

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    Teachers forcing poorer students to take tuition in Tao Nan? This is depressing.

    I recall for some years, there are students from neighbourhood schools who top the PSLE results. And there are poor-performing students from Tao Nan/good schools as well. Just that they are not trumpeted as much

    If you're confident your child is so smart such that he doesn't need affiliation, then any school will do. Affiliation makes a lot of difference if one's child might be just average academically or are the late bloomer playful type. Getting into say SCGS, St Nicks, MGS, SJI, Catholic High almost guarantee you a place in their secondary school - and these are Band 1 secondary schools even though they take in all their affiliated students with very poor results which means their value-add in secondary school is very high. These schools also provide a all-rounded education and students don't end up too "square". So if one's child is a late bloomer, having affiliation does take away some stress in their childhood. I always believe the secondary school formation years is the most important to ensure the child doesn't go down the "wrong" path - so affiliation to a band 1 secondary school does provide some comfort.

    But then if giving some stress in a tuition environment and results-oriented system is what you're looking for, then Tao Nan may just be right. But you just have to bear in mind if your child end up "average" in PSLE (say 240), he probably will have to end up in mediocre secondary school.

    As for buying a property, I wouldn't buy anything today - anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by penguin
    DC33 2008,

    I am all ready to be a Parent-Volunteer or even join GR! (I'm the mummy) haha.. I heard the latter is a sure-get-in, or 99% chance. Anyway, talking abt stress, Im sure Tao nan will have it's fair share of stress, judging from the way the school system is. I have heard of teachers asking the poorer students to get tutors. I am confident my boy will be comfortable in Tao Nan. I believe some pressure will do kids good; make them more ambitious and motivated to excel is a good trait. I never like my boy to be in his comfort-zone for too long. But I have to agree with you - parents who send their kids to top schools have to be mentally prepared for the stress, and must be very involved in their kid's schoolwork.

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    I concur with you on these points based on past experience. This is like property investment. Go for a win-win strategy and sleep in comfort. I could see there is a different between the true-blue students compared to those come in at Secondary or college level when they come to the University.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Falcon
    Teachers forcing poorer students to take tuition in Tao Nan? This is depressing.

    I recall for some years, there are students from neighbourhood schools who top the PSLE results. And there are poor-performing students from Tao Nan/good schools as well. Just that they are not trumpeted as much

    If you're confident your child is so smart such that he doesn't need affiliation, then any school will do. Affiliation makes a lot of difference if one's child might be just average academically or are the late bloomer playful type. Getting into say SCGS, St Nicks, MGS, SJI, Catholic High almost guarantee you a place in their secondary school - and these are Band 1 secondary schools even though they take in all their affiliated students with very poor results which means their value-add in secondary school is very high. These schools also provide a all-rounded education and students don't end up too "square". So if one's child is a late bloomer, having affiliation does take away some stress in their childhood. I always believe the secondary school formation years is the most important to ensure the child doesn't go down the "wrong" path - so affiliation to a band 1 secondary school does provide some comfort.

    But then if giving some stress in a tuition environment and results-oriented system is what you're looking for, then Tao Nan may just be right. But you just have to bear in mind if your child end up "average" in PSLE (say 240), he probably will have to end up in mediocre secondary school.

    As for buying a property, I wouldn't buy anything today - anywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfoo
    i would wait

    I think nobody can predict for sure if the property price will definitely drop or rise. Even if price drops, the drop rate is not consistent across the island at all because some places will always be more prime than others. Unless the government decides to build alot of public housing in this area making housing very affordable here, the only choice is to go for whatever projects are on sale here (new or resale, private or HDB).

    What we know for sure however, is that the bank interest rates will definitely go up in time to come because we are already at rock bottom. Can we assume that the people in this area will panic and sell their houses/units when the interest rates rise considerably? If that is the reason of them selling at lower price, can you afford it with high bank interest? From the last economy crisis in 2008, it didn't seem like there was a panic to sell and the prices held on, so it may be easier to believe that the people who bought these apartments in this area are wealthy enough to hold onto the houses. They are still very much cheaper than those in River Valley, Newton, Bukit Timah, going at $2,000+ psf.

    I think you should calculate your budget by 2012 and the loan you can/should take with a mind that the interest may be at say 3 to 4%, and wait if that is a better option.

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    Hi Penguin,

    I had the same views as you regarding enrolling my son to Tao Nan. As the bird highlighted a few months back, I am a non-pedigree parent who wish for my son to become pedigreed. In fact, my primary school close down long time ago liao. With this in mind, I bought into the Coralis so as to eligible for phase2B in future. Will also send my worker to do volunteer work on my behalf so as to boost chances by being within 1 Km and with volunteer work. Very Kiasu hor.

    However, I have noticed that its getting increasing hard to enter TNS because of all the new projects sprouting out. Especially the MM developments, notice that the studios sell out with balloting? Parents having the same idea? The bottom line is not to bang all hopes on landing into TNS and looking at other alternatives just in case. Frankly, I can also qualify for NYPS, ACS primary and SJI just to be safe. So I will monitor the situation and register accordingly.

    The above is my personal opinion and could be heavily biased. If you insist on buying into TK area, there is no such thing as a value buy now. Its just sniffing out a unit that is slightly cheaper than the last transacted but still way above the price of 2009. With respect to your timeline, why don't you consider buying a small inter terrace that is about 1500 -2000 sqft and rebuild? When you get back, its about TOP time and you can enjoy a nice new landed unit? Who knows, if property prices continue to climb even till then, I can only imagine how much the landed will be worth.

    Most importantly, just buy what you are comfortable with and you will not need to predict the market. I buy at all times as I do not time my purchases despite reading "Timing the Real Estate Market".

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    Penguin r u 4/5 yrs away from P1 registration ? If yes u could still wait for another 2 yrs. TK area has seen a huge jump in price over the last 10 months. The level now is getting ridiculous, so much so that even FEO's silversea looks "reasonable" now. No one can predict the market, but for this particular area, it looks more peakish than the others.

    Another thing u should take note. P1 registration "phases" system could change. For example a few yrs back there was no 2b/2c half half allocation. As of now, the hottest topic is PVs. Many parents complain to MOE abt PV system, saying it's very unfair, and urge MOE to abolish it. So dun plan too early unless u r really sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    Penguin r u 4/5 yrs away from P1 registration ? If yes u could still wait for another 2 yrs. TK area has seen a huge jump in price over the last 10 months. The level now is getting ridiculous, so much so that even FEO's silversea looks "reasonable" now. No one can predict the market, but for this particular area, it looks more peakish than the others.
    TK looks peakish?? i tink TK area gained too little from last yr bottom....haha...

    1bedder in joo chiat/TK was about 900-1kpsf last yr bottom....now ard 1200psf....whereas clift from 1200psf to 1900psf....caspian from 600psf to ard 800-850psf now....one amber also appreciated more....TK is laggard la....

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    Where got 1200 now ? Just the above poster's coralis is already asking 1500 leh. Now the sellers are benchmarking each other

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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    Where got 1200 now ? Just the above poster's coralis is already asking 1500 leh. Now the sellers are benchmarking each other
    In other words, Penguin should hope that people like Bullman will sell his Coralis suddenly in 2012 at a much cheaper price say... $1,000psf? hehehe

    Bullman, will you accept this generous offer in 2012?

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    Quote Originally Posted by reuters
    In other words, Penguin should hope that people like Bullman will sell his Coralis suddenly in 2012 at a much cheaper price say... $1,000psf? hehehe

    Bullman, will you accept this generous offer in 2012?
    I am 1st in the Q..

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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    Where got 1200 now ? Just the above poster's coralis is already asking 1500 leh. Now the sellers are benchmarking each other
    coralis and those boutique apts in telok kurau r different league....

    coralis NOT in TK la

    latest MM launch espira suites in TK Lor G,H around 1250-1300psf for their 1bedder...and tats new launch pricing....so resale probably cheaper at ard 1200psf

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    He's talking abt 1km within Tao Nan mah. Coralis is one of the decent projects that has livable units. Those MM types dun count lah.

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