View Full Version : Nearly sold my condo...
I nearly sold my condo...cheque in front of me for 1%...offer to purchase signed by buyers...Passed the draft of option to purchase to lawyer...
Lawyer jumped...
1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option.
2. 6 weeks to do completion.
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion.
Lawyer asked me if I am mad or what???
To a lay person like me, what is the difference betwen 2 and 3 weeks?
6 weeks...if buyer lawyer can do can oredi...
And renovate, buyer juz sign indemnity lah.
Lawyer asked me...what if buyer ask contractor to hack here and there, burst a pipe or two, create a leak to lower floor, and then dun complete?
Wah...usually I dun like lawyers, but for once, I am very thankful I met up with this one.
So, offer rejected. A little bit heart pain, cos it was a record breaking price psf for this development...
Simple lah. Ask them to complete within 4 weeks and they can do whatever they like after taking over. :cheers1:
I nearly sold my condo...cheque in front of me for 1%...offer to purchase signed by buyers...Passed the draft of option to purchase to lawyer...
Lawyer jumped...
1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option.
2. 6 weeks to do completion.
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion.
Lawyer asked me if I am mad or what???
To a lay person like me, what is the difference betwen 2 and 3 weeks?
6 weeks...if buyer lawyer can do can oredi...
And renovate, buyer juz sign indemnity lah.
Lawyer asked me...what if buyer ask contractor to hack here and there, burst a pipe or two, create a leak to lower floor, and then dun complete?
Wah...usually I dun like lawyers, but for once, I am very thankful I met up with this one.
So, offer rejected. A little bit heart pain, cos it was a record breaking price psf for this development...
rattydrama
23-09-10, 15:28
why reject? nego terms or give abit of discount if target price hit
why reject? nego terms or give abit of discount if target price hit
Agreed, as long as you are protected, don't miss out on good opportunity.
Few years ago when I sold my east coast condo, my buyer requested to start renovation before completion. I make them sign a "indemnity" clause that in case the sales cannot be completed (due to whatever reasons), they must bear the cost of reinstating the apartment back to its original conditions.
Sounds like someone's lawyer should have recommended better alternative...:doh:
Agreed, as long as you are protected, don't miss out on good opportunity.
Few years ago when I sold my east coast condo, my buyer requested to start renovation before completion. I make them sign a "indemnity" clause that in case the sales cannot be completed (due to whatever reasons), they must bear the cost of reinstating the apartment back to its original conditions.
I reproduce the letter for your reference (LETTER OF INDEMNITY AND UNDERTAKING), hope it is not too late. Also, for my case, the seller agreed to pay Ppty tax and MCST chrgs starting from "possession date" (Clause 1).
TO: Vendor
Re: Property address
We, buyers XX YY hereby jointly and severally undertake:-
1) to pay and be responsible for all outgoings in respect of the Property including but not limited to property tax and maintenance charges as from (date of possession) until the completion of the sale and purchase of the Property ("the Holding-over Period") and to indemnify you in respect of such payments;
2) to exercise all reasonable care and diligence when using the Property so as to ensure that no notices and/or orders and/or summons from any government authority is/are issued against you and/or the Property;
3) to vacate and deliver vacant possession of the Property to you in its original state and condition immediately on demand in the event the completion of the sale and purchase of the Property fails to take place on completion date;
4) not to carry out any renovation works to the Property unless the prior written approval from the managment corporation and/or other relevant authorities have been obtained; and
5) to idemnify and keep indemnified you on a full indemnity basis against all actions, proceedings, claims and demands, costs, loss, demages and expenses which may be levied brought or made against you or which you may pay sustain or incur or become liable directly or indirectly by reason of our possession, use and occupation of the Property during Holding-over Period
Dated this XXXXXXXX
Yours faithfully
Sellers
Witness:
Law firm
Geylang OKT
23-09-10, 17:32
I nearly sold my condo...cheque in front of me for 1%...offer to purchase signed by buyers...Passed the draft of option to purchase to lawyer...
Lawyer jumped...
1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option.
2. 6 weeks to do completion.
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion.
Lawyer asked me if I am mad or what???
To a lay person like me, what is the difference betwen 2 and 3 weeks?
6 weeks...if buyer lawyer can do can oredi...
And renovate, buyer juz sign indemnity lah.
Lawyer asked me...what if buyer ask contractor to hack here and there, burst a pipe or two, create a leak to lower floor, and then dun complete?
Wah...usually I dun like lawyers, but for once, I am very thankful I met up with this one.
So, offer rejected. A little bit heart pain, cos it was a record breaking price psf for this development...
Your Option To Purchase can be modified to suit you, the Vendor. Donch listen to agents who tend to say the OTP is always standard or cannot be changed (remember it is draft). You should have asked the lawyer to redraft/negotiate the OTP to ensure that the revised OPT is mutually agreeable to both parties.
And also like some of the other bros in this forum has indicated, have the indemnity form signed by the Purchaser(s).
Maybe your lawyer jumped because he works very slowly, and cannot get all the necessary submissions and/or the bank redemption etc in time :eek: :tongue3: :cool:
This looks like a lose-lose situation to me.
1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option. (standard is 2 weeks)
2. 6 weeks to do completion. (8 to 10 weeks is common, but 6 weeks still do-able)
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion. (get them to sign the Indemnity form lah)
:doh: :doh: :doh:
A reasonable time for early completion can be 8 weeks (from 1% deposit to completion). I have done this a few times before.
Before you sign on the dotted line, please check the following:
1) Sufficient notice period given to your mortgage bank to avoid penalty;
2) Your lawyer has sufficient time to deal with CPF board if you have withdrawn money from CPF; and
3) Your buyer's mortgage bank can release the loan in time.
Always check with your lawyer from time to time for the progress, they tend to put the blame on the lawyer on the other side for any delay.
Not recommend letting buyer to touch your place before completion of the transaction. Anything can happen (e.g. fire), especially things not covered by insurance, and the place is still under your name. Although the buyer signed indemnity, still too much hassle going through a legal case that you might not win in the end.
Prevention is better than cure.
Personally, I will not do it. Yes, many would have this or that experience writing idemnity clause. But how many has actively pursued claims?
The key question you need to ask yourself is whether you are ready for the time and hassle when things go wrong?
With past bad experience, I would not do it. I rather earn a bit less.
regards
I went to another lawyer...he told me...dun let people reno before completion...indemnify you is useless if they run into cash flow problem after they finished hacking, bursting pipes and creating holes...
So, the deal is off.
My children very happy.
Cos they said they want to "inherit" their childhood condo when they grow up.
Wolverine23
23-09-10, 20:51
I went to another lawyer...he told me...dun let people reno before completion...indemnify you is useless if they run into cash flow problem after they finished hacking, bursting pipes and creating holes...
So, the deal is off.
My children very happy.
Cos they said they want to "inherit" their childhood condo when they grow up.
by the time they start renovating, your buyer would have already paid you 5% (+ stamp duty to government).
it would be a waste to let a good selling price go just because of this.
Wild Falcon
23-09-10, 23:29
It it is a good deal, I will take the risk. What's the difference in 2 weeks? If the person has already paid the option premium, he has no incentive at all to sabotage the renovation of his future home. Sometimes it's also a gut-feel thing - whether the person you're negotiating with seems genuine. The worst case is the buyer choose not to complete the deal - but in that case, you take the option premium into the pocket right? Lagi best. What is your downside if you're selling out? An indemnity is not a perfect solution but it would have given me enough comfort that the counter party is bona fide and acting in good faith. Your lawyer should have given u better advice other than a straight "no way". It is a commercial decision, not a legal decision, and lawyer should just shut up.
I nearly sold my condo...cheque in front of me for 1%...offer to purchase signed by buyers...Passed the draft of option to purchase to lawyer...
Lawyer jumped...
1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option.
2. 6 weeks to do completion.
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion.
Lawyer asked me if I am mad or what???
To a lay person like me, what is the difference betwen 2 and 3 weeks?
6 weeks...if buyer lawyer can do can oredi...
And renovate, buyer juz sign indemnity lah.
Lawyer asked me...what if buyer ask contractor to hack here and there, burst a pipe or two, create a leak to lower floor, and then dun complete?
Wah...usually I dun like lawyers, but for once, I am very thankful I met up with this one.
So, offer rejected. A little bit heart pain, cos it was a record breaking price psf for this development...
Wild Falcon
23-09-10, 23:51
And some of the best deals I've cut are the non-standard ones. It's only in desperate cases that you get good deals, i.e. deep discount for those who needs cash urgently (some even structured with higher upfront payment or high option value), or better premiums for those who want to move in quickly. Such non-standard agreements are really not that uncommon in the market place - in fact the good lawyers will have standard boilerplate templates already. Just make sure you get a good lawyer to draft your S&P and option agreement. In your case, the buyer already has siginificant skin in the game (5% + stamp duty?) when he starts his reno. He has no reason to walk. Even if he walks (which is very unlikely because he has no incentive to do so), you take the 5% and can sue for completion. This is something the lawyer should have told you for u make the final decision.
And some of the best deals I've cut are the non-standard ones. It's only in desperate cases that you get good deals, i.e. deep discount for those who needs cash urgently (some even structured with higher upfront payment or high option value), or better premiums for those who want to move in quickly. Such non-standard agreements are really not that uncommon in the market place - in fact the good lawyers will have standard boilerplate templates already. Just make sure you get a good lawyer to draft your S&P and option agreement. In your case, the buyer already has siginificant skin in the game (5% + stamp duty?) whe.n he starts his reno. He has no reason to walk. Even if he walks (which is very unlikely because he has no incentive to do so), you take the 5% and can sue for completion. This is something the lawyer should have told you for u make the final decision.
That sounded like a experienced player. Anyway, it would be hard to get a refund of the stamp duty even if the deal fall through. Almost impossible. Some attempts in court were made to do that based on misrepresentation by seller and was turned down with costs.
When you want to decide, you have to think whether the 5% (if correct) paid to you is worth the risk of restoration. If the risk is small or you are prepared for it, such as in situation where your condo is already in poor shape and you are prepared to take back ownership if the deal fall through, you are actually better off to have them pay to do the demolition for you at their cost. Thereafter sue them for damages if they failed to complete the purchase (if you want to and find it worthwhile to do so - for specific performance as stated). If the selling price is high, you stand to gain more.
Anyway you (thread starter) might have missed out a good deal. Of course your children will be happy to inherited it from you. Strange childen, you are not dead yet and they are thinking about your money and assets. Strange world. How old are they? Are they filial or will be filial?
Your Option To Purchase can be modified to suit you, the Vendor. Donch listen to agents who tend to say the OTP is always standard or cannot be changed (remember it is draft). You should have asked the lawyer to redraft/negotiate the OTP to ensure that the revised OPT is mutually agreeable to both parties.
And also like some of the other bros in this forum has indicated, have the indemnity form signed by the Purchaser(s).
Maybe your lawyer jumped because he works very slowly, and cannot get all the necessary submissions and/or the bank redemption etc in time :eek: :tongue3: :cool:
This looks like a lose-lose situation to me.
1. 3 and half weeks to exercise option. (standard is 2 weeks)
2. 6 weeks to do completion. (8 to 10 weeks is common, but 6 weeks still do-able)
3. Renovation works start 2 weeks before completion. (get them to sign the Indemnity form lah)
:doh: :doh: :doh:
Actually it might not be lose lose. Let me try to make it win-win
All you need is actually keep to standard period of 2 weeks to exercise option.
They can start reno only upon exercising their option. Completion can be standard while both sides work to speed up the whole thing.
Same risk for aborting the purchase as in any other transaction.
But with the Letter of under taking, your risk is actually reduced and have a stronger ground in claiming for damages should things turn sour.
From that letter, I would infer that the buyers are quite sincere and the deal is likely to be completed. Thus Win-Win. (that is disregarding the price paid). Anyway decision is by owner. Buyer once rejected and walk away is hard to woo back.
OK....
The condo is in good condition...maybe grind parquet, polish marble, can move in oredi. Dun even need painting as paint is new, unless wanna change colours.
I am returning cheque today, rejecting offer.
My children are quite filial, especially the elder girl(P5)...and it is just that they are emotionally attached to the place cos they learnt swimming there, learnt cycling there, and No.3 and No. 4 was born there, which is why we had to move out, cos no more space!!!
Thanks for all the thoughts...
No worries.
In fact, you might be better off keeping it for sale till later.
Anyway the next generation would have to pay alot more to get the same decent sized condo.
Keep it for rental and investment gains if you have no other investment plans or in need of $$.
Proponents of FH would say to keep it till enblocked.
Simple lah. Ask them to complete within 4 weeks and they can do whatever they like after taking over. :cheers1:
Sometimes, is the buyer waiting for fund from his sold house.. but on the other hand wish to takeover the new one earlier to do some renovation etc.. so is not possible to complete early cos need to wait for fund to come in.
Sometimes, is the buyer waiting for fund from his sold house.. but on the other hand wish to takeover the new one earlier to do some renovation etc.. so is not possible to complete early cos need to wait for fund to come in.
If it was juz this...then got such thing called "bridging loan".
I think the buyer was trying to get all the timing right, move out and move in to new, no need to rent first, or bunk in somewhere, and furniture in warehouse...
proud owner
24-09-10, 11:41
Sometimes, is the buyer waiting for fund from his sold house.. but on the other hand wish to takeover the new one earlier to do some renovation etc.. so is not possible to complete early cos need to wait for fund to come in.
i remember when i bought my landed in 2006 .. the owner was a single father whose sons are oversea studying.
hes like 60ish yo ..
he didnt request for late completion, or free stay or anything ..
but i found out that after completion, he would take the $ to make the final payment for his new condo, then do renovation, before he can move in
meanwhile he would move to his in law's place for 2 mths before he move again to the condo ..
since he was a nice old man ..and alone, i couldnt bear to see him move house 2 times within 2 mths ..
so i let him stay for free in the landed that i bought from him, till his renovation was complete ..
we became friends ..to this day
devilplate
24-09-10, 11:43
i remember when i bought my landed in 2006 .. the owner was a single father whose sons are oversea studying.
hes like 60ish yo ..
he didnt request for late completion, or free stay or anything ..
but i found out that after completion, he would take the $ to make the final payment for his new condo, then do renovation, before he can move in
meanwhile he would move to his in law's place for 2 mths before he move again to the condo ..
since he was a nice old man ..and alone, i couldnt bear to see him move house 2 times within 2 mths ..
so i let him stay for free in the landed that i bought from him, till his renovation was complete ..
we became friends ..to this day
tats very nice of u:cheers6:
i remember when i bought my landed in 2006 .. the owner was a single father whose sons are oversea studying.
hes like 60ish yo ..
he didnt request for late completion, or free stay or anything ..
but i found out that after completion, he would take the $ to make the final payment for his new condo, then do renovation, before he can move in
meanwhile he would move to his in law's place for 2 mths before he move again to the condo ..
since he was a nice old man ..and alone, i couldnt bear to see him move house 2 times within 2 mths ..
so i let him stay for free in the landed that i bought from him, till his renovation was complete ..
we became friends ..to this day
That's the difference.
Friends are made when you care. Black and white goes only so far.
I bet the previous owner did not look back at his sold price and the current price. Move on.
so i let him stay for free in the landed that i bought from him, till his renovation was complete ..
we became friends ..to this day
Wah...you are very good and kind...
But got a small difference letting people stay for free, and allowing hacking before completion. Too many issues in hacking, if nothing happen, all OK, if something happens(eg.downstairs ceiling leak water onto expensive carpet)...then very much paper work will arise.
I have ever let tenant stay free after lease up, but for few days only, cos waiting for aeroplane, then no need to stay hotel...
proud owner
24-09-10, 11:49
That's the difference.
Friends are made when you care. Black and white goes only so far.
I bet the previous owner did not look back at his sold price and the current price. Move on.
correct
he did say i bought at a good price
he also said he bought the condo at a good price too
for an old man ... he knows ... buy low sell low ...and never dwell on it
proud owner
24-09-10, 11:51
Wah...you are very good and kind...
But got a small difference letting people stay for free, and allowing hacking before completion. Too many issues in hacking, if nothing happen, all OK, if something happens(eg.downstairs ceiling leak water onto expensive carpet)...then very much paper work will arise.
I have ever let tenant stay free after lease up, but for few days only, cos waiting for aeroplane, then no need to stay hotel...
well i guess what i was trying to say is that ...
buyer and seller SHOULD have a conversation ...everything is negotiable
well i guess what i was trying to say is that ...
buyer and seller SHOULD have a conversation ...everything is negotiable
Must admit I have not spoken to buyer...cos the agent has key to my condo...and this one was co-broked...so another agent's client...so far, only know the names of the buyers.
Al the ding donging was done by SMS, email and fone calls...
devilplate
24-09-10, 11:59
well i guess what i was trying to say is that ...
buyer and seller SHOULD have a conversation ...everything is negotiable
depends on individual and whether can 'click' anot....smtimes can turn out ugly
u guys allow nice tenant to break lease without forfeiture if he is genuinely dismiss by the coy?
proud owner
24-09-10, 12:02
Must admit I have not spoken to buyer...cos the agent has key to my condo...and this one was co-broked...so another agent's client...so far, only know the names of the buyers.
Al the ding donging was done by SMS, email and fone calls...
IF you have to sell, for personal reasons and have a place to move to ..
and IF price is the best in your view ..then i would suggest you talk to buyer ( or thru agent/lawyer)
like fellow forumers said .. you can submit your version of the option ..
lf buyer dont accept then return cheque lor ..
depends on individual and whether can 'click' anot....smtimes can turn out ugly
u guys allow nice tenant to break lease without forfeiture if he is genuinely dismiss by the coy?
Yes. Especially those who are
devilplate
24-09-10, 12:05
Yes. Especially those who are
cool;)
there r many nice ppl around...:cheers6:
IF you have to sell, for personal reasons and have a place to move to ..
and IF price is the best in your view ..then i would suggest you talk to buyer ( or thru agent/lawyer)
like fellow forumers said .. you can submit your version of the option ..
lf buyer dont accept then return cheque lor ..
I oredi moved out more than a year ago, place was rented out, and then left vacant for about a month whilst actively marketing it...
Sometime is really depending on good trust between buyer & seller.. of course there will be some risk in case anything goes wrong..
But seller's lawyer usually try to protect the interest of the client(seller) & maybe the lawyer also do not like to take such "troublesome" case.
If it was juz this...then got such thing called "bridging loan".
I think the buyer was trying to get all the timing right, move out and move in to new, no need to rent first, or bunk in somewhere, and furniture in warehouse...
Usually buyer take "bridging loan" as last option if only a few weeks different. They prefer to ask for some condition to the seller since they already serious by offering a cheque.
Must admit I have not spoken to buyer...cos the agent has key to my condo...and this one was co-broked...so another agent's client...so far, only know the names of the buyers.
Al the ding donging was done by SMS, email and fone calls...
Maybe you should try to see if things can be negotiated with the buyer directly, in a open setting with both side's agent present.
Quite wasteful to throw away the offer. I am surprised that your agent didnt try his best to convince you to sell.
If I were you, I would ask about the reasons for the deviations .
Then make a judgement on which you can accomodate and which you cannot.
Maybe also attempt to moderate his expectations a litte.
In worst case, you could even offer to absord the cost for him and have him put up at service apartment for 3 to 6 months and just follow normal transaction period. It is coming out from the sales prices anyway. Slightly inflated price will solve the problem.
Nego Nego for Win Win, Unless you really don't have intention to sell. Sounds like the sentimental value is holding you back. Memories can be priceless. Good Luck!
if the deal is off, then there is nothing to talk about it
if not, u hv to consider what is the objective of this sale and yr next move?
I think the risk to let the buyer to do reno is rather minimum.
The market is now slow, and buyer is expecting a lower price in the near future.
I oredi moved out more than a year ago, place was rented out, and then left vacant for about a month whilst actively marketing it...
rent the unit out again :D
i also returned a cheque that came after the newly implemented measures...
if the deal is off, then there is nothing to talk about it
if not, u hv to consider what is the objective of this sale and yr next move?
I think the risk to let the buyer to do reno is rather minimum.
The market is now slow, and buyer is expecting a lower price in the near future.
The previous deal is off...but agent says buyer is coming back with different terms...see how...
I not ready to stomach the risk of reno before completion after the scenarios painted by 2 lawyers.
The market is slow, but the asking price is still going upwards, this one, I cannot explain...cos volume is low, but the asking is higher by the week...
I am watching URA transactions with caveats lodged, but they are about one month late...
rattydrama
24-09-10, 16:31
So are you guys getting higher offers after 30 Aug? Are you getting more offers for your condo? High or Low offers? - can anyone share from your experience?
Wild Falcon
24-09-10, 16:53
Totally agree 100%. It's important to talk to the principal (not agent) to assess if this person is reliable and acting in good faith. Cannot rely on agent alone. Sometimes, there are really genuine "desperate" cases that need a place urgently. Just give and take makes life better for everyone :)
Anyway, it appears the threadstarter is still getting better offers? Then no loss at all lah :) Cheers!
well i guess what i was trying to say is that ...
buyer and seller SHOULD have a conversation ...everything is negotiable
Wild Falcon
24-09-10, 16:55
Have a units put up on sale last Sat and immediately got an offer on Sat. But offer still 5% below my ask price. But I think should be able to hit target. Fingers crossed. But I suspect had I put up for sale prior to Aug 30, the unit will be sold very quickly.
So are you guys getting higher offers after 30 Aug? Are you getting more offers for your condo? High or Low offers? - can anyone share from your experience?
Have a units put up on sale last Sat and immediately got an offer on Sat. But offer still 5% below my ask price. But I think should be able to hit target. Fingers crossed. But I suspect had I put up for sale prior to Aug 30, the unit will be sold very quickly.
Current sentiments, wait and see...
Anyway most owners have holding power... unless the economy or the stock market turn bad.
Some offers are just verbal offers by Agent (can say anything right?).. Low ballers. Might not even have buyers but once you agree to consider to reduce price... Serve you like master. I just reject them politely.
The excurberance in the property market has halted. HDB's COV reduced but it doesn't mean their value has fallen. Just that breaks has been applied for the HDB prices not to go further up. If it is going down, it has to be desperate sellers or Govt reducing the prices of New DBSS and EC's. Do you see that? No right?
Do you know that these cooling measures could be removed when the market is too cold? Like air con like that, it will be adjusted. That's why I always preach "holding power is key to success". Market behaves like a cycle. Steer correctly and catch the wind.
So are you guys getting higher offers after 30 Aug? Are you getting more offers for your condo? High or Low offers? - can anyone share from your experience?
Higher...by the week...till this one.
Then I stopped all viewings, cos I thought going to sell...then lawyers say "better dun".
Now, taking a breather.
But my neighbours are oredi asking 5% higher than the offer I got.
Wolverine23
24-09-10, 20:44
i think you shd change your lawyer who does not value add. :)
anyway, if someone who is prepared to pay 5% + stamp duty, he is definitely a serious buyer.
Higher...by the week...till this one.
Then I stopped all viewings, cos I thought going to sell...then lawyers say "better dun".
Now, taking a breather.
But my neighbours are oredi asking 5% higher than the offer I got.
Geylang OKT
25-09-10, 00:32
I think your lawyer should just keep quiet. To me it is a good deal gone to waste. :doh:
A serious buyer who has put down 5% will not want to see his investment gone to waste. Besides, the 5% could be used to offset the uncompleted renovations in the worst case scenario (aborted completion). Here, I am assuming at least $50k for a 1 million property. This should be enough to finish the works and you get a facelift for your condo for free! And you get to sue him too in the process. Win for you, loss for him! :D
My take is that your lawyer might have been thinking of the inconvenience to himself due to the short time frame given. ;)
Geylang OKT
25-09-10, 00:37
Actually it might not be lose lose. Let me try to make it win-win
All you need is actually keep to standard period of 2 weeks to exercise option.
They can start reno only upon exercising their option. Completion can be standard while both sides work to speed up the whole thing.
Same risk for aborting the purchase as in any other transaction.
But with the Letter of under taking, your risk is actually reduced and have a stronger ground in claiming for damages should things turn sour.
From that letter, I would infer that the buyers are quite sincere and the deal is likely to be completed. Thus Win-Win. (that is disregarding the price paid). Anyway decision is by owner. Buyer once rejected and walk away is hard to woo back.
Win-win means seller accepts the high price offer and buyer gets to purchase the house. I don't see this happening in this case :eek:
Lose-Lose is because the seller has rejected the buyer. Seller lose out on a good selling price, buyer lose out on his dream home. That is what is happening now. :D
Geylang OKT
25-09-10, 00:46
Higher...by the week...till this one.
Then I stopped all viewings, cos I thought going to sell...then lawyers say "better dun".
Now, taking a breather.
But my neighbours are oredi asking 5% higher than the offer I got.
Asking prices are asking prices only. Seller can ask for the moon or sky but nobody would make an offer. Recent transacted prices are the ones you should take dressing from. :eek:
Win-win means seller accepts the high price offer and buyer gets to purchase the house. I don't see this happening in this case :eek:
Lose-Lose is because the seller has rejected the buyer. Seller lose out on a good selling price, buyer lose out on his dream home. That is what is happening now. :D
Ouch! pity the buyers and sellers. Don't know how to deal! I agree with you and your message is short but SHARP!
If only both accept and deal successfully, it can be a win win as described (at least for now).
:cool:
Current sentiments, wait and see...
Anyway most owners have holding power... unless the economy or the stock market turn bad.
Do you know that these cooling measures could be removed when the market is too cold? Like air con like that, it will be adjusted. That's why I always preach "holding power is key to success". Market behaves like a cycle. Steer correctly and catch the wind.
agree that sellers need to hold.
if buyers are PRs they have to buy or continue to rent and alot always upset to see hundreds o $'000 big expensed out every year. the longer they wait, the amount the paid as rental would be more thn sufficient to cover the reduction in $psf they wanted..
with the economy on the uptrend doubt that the market will crash. let's await west's action to stop asian countries from growing too fast independently
I think your lawyer should just keep quiet. To me it is a good deal gone to waste. :doh:
A serious buyer who has put down 5% will not want to see his investment gone to waste. Besides, the 5% could be used to offset the uncompleted renovations in the worst case scenario (aborted completion). Here, I am assuming at least $50k for a 1 million property. This should be enough to finish the works and you get a facelift for your condo for free! And you get to sue him too in the process. Win for you, loss for him! :D
My take is that your lawyer might have been thinking of the inconvenience to himself due to the short time frame given. ;)
it all boils down to whether the buyer is genuine or is a con artist
firstly 5 paid..
secondly fast completion time. why?
thirdly = reno before completion - why the urgency?
fourthly - who's the renovation contractor? check it out whether $$ been paid?
if above is checked out..and it makes logical sense, then no reason for not to proceed.
lawyers can quote everything from the book..but we are the ones from experiences will feel whether buyer is real/ fake.
or simple ...add another term in contract
reno can commence provided seller clear the plans and $$$ fully paid to contractor. if the buyer is genuine and understand the law...the condo is not his until full pymt made by bank. buyer runs the risk of renovating and if transaction does not go through the reno will value add to price for seller
but if buyer is con artist. buyer will not agree.
Geylang OKT
26-09-10, 06:43
Out of curiousity, would the TS mind if he/she shares the devt in question? :D
Out of curiousity, would the TS mind if he/she shares the devt in question? :D
HEEHEEHEE...give out my address next tum cannot any oh how scold people...
So did he counter offer anything ?
It does look like the buyer is trying to get his timing right. I also agree with OKT the lawyer is probably not very willing to do this rush job. Lots of paperwork to be done within 2 weeks, especially involving CPF. For me personally if I can feel the buyer is genuine, the risk of renovation is not that high. Maybe u can get him to pay to u directly the 4% at exercise, instead of the lawyer. It doesn't change anything, but u may feel better with the cash at hand. it's a matter of whether u want to help this buyer.
So did he counter offer anything ?
It does look like the buyer is trying to get his timing right. I also agree with OKT the lawyer is probably not very willing to do this rush job. Lots of paperwork to be done within 2 weeks, especially involving CPF. For me personally if I can feel the buyer is genuine, the risk of renovation is not that high. Maybe u can get him to pay to u directly the 4% at exercise, instead of the lawyer. It doesn't change anything, but u may feel better with the cash at hand. it's a matter of whether u want to help this buyer.
He came back with a different date to exercise option, and a different completion date(sooner), and I changed lawyer(one who said "Can do."...and then...that same evening, he said, "Not "SOON SOON"(hokkien), buay song...offer off."
My 2 elder children celebrated noisily. My wife celebrated quietly. My agent collect back the cheque dejectedly.
Me? I am OK either way.
Why? Cos of JLRX's theory...
devilplate
27-09-10, 09:22
i find the buyer very funny actually...
he got his priorities wrong
proud owner
27-09-10, 11:14
He came back with a different date to exercise option, and a different completion date(sooner), and I changed lawyer(one who said "Can do."...and then...that same evening, he said, "Not "SOON SOON"(hokkien), buay song...offer off."
My 2 elder children celebrated noisily. My wife celebrated quietly. My agent collect back the cheque dejectedly.
Me? I am OK either way.
Why? Cos of JLRX's theory...
Following Reporter .... Jlrx has disappeared ....
just like Kong Hee...
JLRX may have gone somewhere else, but his words reverberate thru my mind very often...
Maybe I am the type who is easy to hypnotise! (Some people are impossible to hypnotise)
Anyway, up or down for now , eventually is up, cos we are land scarce, with a population density that beats Hong Kong.
i find the buyer very funny actually...
he got his priorities wrong
My wife said, "His agent kow chee chum, and said sold their flat, got 2 children, need a roof over their heads urgently, hence the shortened period to complete the sale...now he pull back, come back I also dun wanna sell to him."
My wife said, "His agent kow chee chum, and said sold their flat, got 2 children, need a roof over their heads urgently, hence the shortened period to complete the sale...now he pull back, come back I also dun wanna sell to him."
think no need to get too personal, if buyer comes back and the terms are agreeable i say why not ~
think no need to get too personal, if buyer comes back and the terms are agreeable i say why not ~
I think got difference between how guys and gals are wired up.
On the whole, gals are more "heart".
I think got difference between how guys and gals are wired up.
On the whole, gals are more "heart".
just dun let the heart overrides the brain ~ lol
just dun let the heart overrides the brain ~ lol
HAHAHA!
Heart overrides brain very often for the wife.
For men, we allow another part to override the brain.
No wonder so many PRC women can make it in Singapore!!!
Geylang OKT
27-09-10, 16:25
Erm... no offence, but my take is that your buyer thinks he can now get a property at a much cheaper price going forward.... thanks to the ruling gahmen's Aug 30 measures. Truth be told, market is now soft and getting softer :D :D :D
Either that... or he chose his second choice unit when you initially rejected his offer. :cool:
Erm... no offence, but my take is that your buyer thinks he can now get a property at a much cheaper price going forward.... thanks to the ruling gahmen's Aug 30 measures. Truth be told, market is now soft and getting softer :D :D :D
Either that... or he chose his second choice unit when you initially rejected his offer. :cool:
HAHAHA!
He told me he got no more time, need to complete sale quickly, cos must hand over his flat. I doubt he can afford to wait for prices to drop. If he told us the truth, he needs to buy something quickly, or else end up having to rent to tide over whilst searching for a property.
Second choice unit in same development? Maybe. But I doubt so, cos according to agents, my neighbours asking even more cos of their more opulent renovations...
Well...after he took back cheq last week...today, agent SMS me and ask, same price, 6 weeks to complete, no early reno nonsense...CAN?
Problem is, I have viewings today and this weekend...
One bird in hand is worth 2 in the bushes?
I dunno...need to think...
Well...after he took back cheq last week...today, agent SMS me and ask, same price, 6 weeks to complete, no early reno nonsense...CAN?
Problem is, I have viewings today and this weekend...
One bird in hand is worth 2 in the bushes?
I dunno...need to think...
I see you are in pain. Sell and use your time to seek your nivarna.;) ;)
Well...after he took back cheq last week...today, agent SMS me and ask, same price, 6 weeks to complete, no early reno nonsense...CAN?
Problem is, I have viewings today and this weekend...
One bird in hand is worth 2 in the bushes?
I dunno...need to think...
have ur reasons for selling changed? :confused:
devilplate
30-09-10, 12:51
Well...after he took back cheq last week...today, agent SMS me and ask, same price, 6 weeks to complete, no early reno nonsense...CAN?
Problem is, I have viewings today and this weekend...
One bird in hand is worth 2 in the bushes?
I dunno...need to think...
if nid to sell...just sell...dun be greedy:D
if nid to sell...just sell...dun be greedy:D
so simple, cook up some excuse that you are out of town and ask him to deliver cheque after the viewings. Then decide, you can also tell your prospective buyers that offer is at hand during briefing at $xxx. Best of both worlds
Wolverine23
30-09-10, 13:19
This case is very straightforward:
Buyer is very serious and seller is only testing market.
wonder why these kind of person need to seek advice... you need to ask yourself if you really want to sell, if not, it will be a waste of everybody's time.
Wild Falcon
30-09-10, 14:33
Looks like most of the forummers gut feel is correct - he is a more serious buyer than you a serious seller! Haha. Anyway, your choice lah - but don't make life so difficult for him lah, esp when he needs a place urgently. So if u think the price is no good, then just reject and hold out for better deal.
I see you are in pain. Sell and use your time to seek your nivarna.;) ;)
Nirvana sounds good...
if nid to sell...just sell...dun be greedy:D
Actually, there is no "need" to sell, it is 80% paid for, and rental more than cover mortgage and maintenance.
so simple, cook up some excuse that you are out of town and ask him to deliver cheque after the viewings. Then decide, you can also tell your prospective buyers that offer is at hand during briefing at $xxx. Best of both worlds
Buyer wants to skip letter of offer, and go straight to signed option by tonight.
I have not even seen the terms in option yet.
This case is very straightforward:
Buyer is very serious and seller is only testing market.
wonder why these kind of person need to seek advice... you need to ask yourself if you really want to sell, if not, it will be a waste of everybody's time.
I submitted option to lawyer when I got the first offer, lawyer say dun do, coss of reno before completion.
I changed lawyer to one that can do, buyer changed dates, I said OK...then he pulls out.
Serious buyer???
Looks like most of the forummers gut feel is correct - he is a more serious buyer than you a serious seller! Haha. Anyway, your choice lah - but don't make life so difficult for him lah, esp when he needs a place urgently. So if u think the price is no good, then just reject and hold out for better deal.
25% of the development is for sale...no problems buying from my neighbour...juz that their asking is higher than mine, cos their reno is very nice, and mine is very basic...
Geylang OKT
30-09-10, 23:07
25% of the development is for sale...no problems buying from my neighbour...juz that their asking is higher than mine, cos their reno is very nice, and mine is very basic...
You should sell now. The market will be subdued in the coming months and I seriously don't think you can get a higher price than what you are getting going forward. :cool: :cool: :cool:
Geylang OKT
30-09-10, 23:13
Of course, if you use delaying tactics till this weekend viewings, you may get an even better offer (by telling prospective buyers you already have a firm offer on hand at $xxx price). But you wouldn't be fair to your serious and bird-in-hand buyer.
Your choice :D
Geylang OKT
01-10-10, 09:46
Please let us know when your condo is sold. We shall have a virtual celebration. :D :D :D
rattydrama
01-10-10, 09:59
Please let us know when your condo is sold. We shall have a virtual celebration. :D :D :D
I am more interested in how much he made thou........vs how long he hold this property
I am more interested in how much he made thou........vs how long he hold this property
HEEHEEHEE...bought in 2002...no need a degree in maths to say...the numbers look good...
Geylang OKT
01-10-10, 10:14
HEEHEEHEE...bought in 2002...no need a degree in maths to say...the numbers look good...
Huat Ahhh!!!! :D :D :D
rattydrama
01-10-10, 10:16
HEEHEEHEE...bought in 2002...no need a degree in maths to say...the numbers look good...
I started last year so sitting on how many % gain? I kaypo hor... LH or FH
Geylang OKT
01-10-10, 10:19
My conservative guess is that he made a cool $600k profit :D :D :D
Wild Falcon
01-10-10, 10:26
25% selling. My guess is LH.
I started last year so sitting on how many % gain? I kaypo hor... LH or FH
rattydrama
01-10-10, 10:28
My conservative guess is that he made a cool $600k profit :D :D :D
I also make 500K- paper only from last year buys... haha
devilplate
01-10-10, 10:31
all huat liao lor:D
Geylang OKT
01-10-10, 10:34
sfwoo diam diam leow... scare you all go rob / rape / mutilate him :D :D :D
Geylang OKT
04-10-10, 17:48
HEEHEEHEE...bought in 2002...no need a degree in maths to say...the numbers look good...
Please update did you manage to sell to the previous buyer or new buyer? :D
Please update did you manage to sell to the previous buyer or new buyer? :D
Last week, I suddenly got a flurry of calls and offers from "different buyers" through the 3 agents selling for me.
The offers were much lower than the "one that got away".
I told the agents...in order to help me decide who to sell to, I want the profile of the buyers...and ALL the profiles were similar. And fit the previous "one that got away".
Our original buyer posed as different buyers, and tried to buy at a lower price than what he offered before...as I was quite firm about the price I wanted, all his offers thru different agents, all rejected.
Then, one of the agents brought a super keen woman to see, and she arranged second viewing with hubby...in the meantime, the "one that got away" increased his offer till we were back to the start point of this thread...but when he heard about the second viewing of this super keen buyer, he changed agent again,and upped his offer a little bit more, but insisted I signed the option to purchase form immediately, within 3 hours of making his last offer. I asked the agent for the name of the buyer...it was the "one who got away".
To sell, need 2 signatures, wife's and mine, wife refused to be "rushed" and said, "Forget about him, let the new super keen buyer have a go..."
The next day, the "one that got away" gave a cheque for 1% of his renewed(and higher) offer, and a letter of offer thru his agent(his third or fourth agent within one month) and gave us 3 days to consider his offer...my wife said she was "very tired" and said, "Let him have it since he so keen..."
So...the story comes to an end...
Last week, I suddenly got a flurry of calls and offers from "different buyers" through the 3 agents selling for me.
The offers were much lower than the "one that got away".
I told the agents...in order to help me decide who to sell to, I want the profile of the buyers...and ALL the profiles were similar. And fit the previous "one that got away".
Our original buyer posed as different buyers, and tried to buy at a lower price than what he offered before...as I was quite firm about the price I wanted, all his offers thru different agents, all rejected.
Then, one of the agents brought a super keen woman to see, and she arranged second viewing with hubby...in the meantime, the "one that got away" increased his offer till we were back to the start point of this thread...but when he heard about the second viewing of this super keen buyer, he changed agent again,and upped his offer a little bit more, but insisted I signed the option to purchase form immediately, within 3 hours of making his last offer. I asked the agent for the name of the buyer...it was the "one who got away".
To sell, need 2 signatures, wife's and mine, wife refused to be "rushed" and said, "Forget about him, let the new super keen buyer have a go..."
The next day, the "one that got away" gave a cheque for 1% of his renewed(and higher) offer, and a letter of offer thru his agent(his third or fourth agent within one month) and gave us 3 days to consider his offer...my wife said she was "very tired" and said, "Let him have it since he so keen..."
So...the story comes to an end...
glad that you managed to settle, and with higer price tag...so the arrangement is w/o renovation issue. ?
Wild Falcon
05-10-10, 23:42
Congrats! I feel happy for both seller and buyer. Nothing beats selling your beloved house to someone who truly likes and appreciates it. And from the posts, I can tell the buyer really likes your place very very much.
Looks like sfwoo's place not affected by the cooling measures at all! Prices getting higher with lots of serious buyers.
...and they live happily ever after... :D
Geylang OKT
06-10-10, 00:32
Woot! :D :D :D
Last week, I suddenly got a flurry of calls and offers from "different buyers" through the 3 agents selling for me.
The offers were much lower than the "one that got away".
I told the agents...in order to help me decide who to sell to, I want the profile of the buyers...and ALL the profiles were similar. And fit the previous "one that got away".
Our original buyer posed as different buyers, and tried to buy at a lower price than what he offered before...as I was quite firm about the price I wanted, all his offers thru different agents, all rejected.
Then, one of the agents brought a super keen woman to see, and she arranged second viewing with hubby...in the meantime, the "one that got away" increased his offer till we were back to the start point of this thread...but when he heard about the second viewing of this super keen buyer, he changed agent again,and upped his offer a little bit more, but insisted I signed the option to purchase form immediately, within 3 hours of making his last offer. I asked the agent for the name of the buyer...it was the "one who got away".
To sell, need 2 signatures, wife's and mine, wife refused to be "rushed" and said, "Forget about him, let the new super keen buyer have a go..."
The next day, the "one that got away" gave a cheque for 1% of his renewed(and higher) offer, and a letter of offer thru his agent(his third or fourth agent within one month) and gave us 3 days to consider his offer...my wife said she was "very tired" and said, "Let him have it since he so keen..."
So...the story comes to an end...
If I read the story correctly, the "super keen woman" is the 2nd agent engaged by the seller. The seller is very smart to profile the "buyers". Once he has discovered the true buyer is indeed super keen (getting so many agents), he knows the deal will be closed. So let's introduce a "competitor" and make the buyer to pay the highest price he is happy to pay. Happy buyer and Happy seller. Great ending!
Thanks,
Richard
Wolverine23
06-10-10, 07:13
sfwoo...
just very curious, what is it about your unit that made the buyer want to go through all this trouble to get it????
sfwoo...
just very curious, what is it about your unit that made the buyer want to go through all this trouble to get it????
I am also perplexed...but I think it is my lower asking price...my reno is very basic(can tear down without regrets type), and my sell price is below my neighbours' asking price for same type of unit, because my neighbours got beautiful renovation, and they put that into their asking price, I guess...
glad that you managed to settle, and with higer price tag...so the arrangement is w/o renovation issue. ?
No early renovation before completion.
Congrats! I feel happy for both seller and buyer. Nothing beats selling your beloved house to someone who truly likes and appreciates it. And from the posts, I can tell the buyer really likes your place very very much.
Looks like sfwoo's place not affected by the cooling measures at all! Prices getting higher with lots of serious buyers.
My neighbours are still asking for record breaking prices...once someone sells at a record price, they up their asking...
...and they live happily ever after... :D
I hope so, too.
My family strike 4D first price after moving in, and deliver another 2 more babies here!
Woot! :D :D :D
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
If I read the story correctly, the "super keen woman" is the 2nd agent engaged by the seller. The seller is very smart to profile the "buyers". Once he has discovered the true buyer is indeed super keen (getting so many agents), he knows the deal will be closed. So let's introduce a "competitor" and make the buyer to pay the highest price he is happy to pay. Happy buyer and Happy seller. Great ending!
Thanks,
Richard
No...the "super keen woman" is a genuine buyer from another agent.
We had already written off the "one that got away" cos of all his requests like early reno before completion, must sign option within 3 hrs of verbal offer..., and were ready to sell to the "super keen woman".
When the agent told me got a offer with cheque, I had no idea it was the "one that got away"...until the agent told me the name.
but when he heard about the second viewing of this super keen buyer, he changed agent again,and upped his offer a little bit more, but insisted I signed the option to purchase form immediately, within 3 hours of making his last offer.
u know he will bite liao~
shld up your asking a bit just for fun to make him tulan & gan cheong.. just joking :p
anyway buy sell drag too long no gd for both parties imo, gd urs is settled liao :o
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