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devilplate
30-07-10, 18:52
hey guys...it is better to start a thread on landed rather den toking about it at scala thread...yay?

i thinking of getting a old old single storey landed with land size min 1800 max 3000sqft....semi D or corner terrace...

however, how much do i goto fork out on rebuilding....wat r the steps of doing it? anyone did it recently? mind sharing ur precious experience?

and most imptly....wats the reasonable land PSF guide in D16/D13/D19 for old old single storey?

i realised very hard to find such houses leh....if got..also not cheap...only like 20% discount compared to brandnew ones:doh:

devilplate
30-07-10, 19:31
looks dead...realised got another thread which mentioned about 250-300psf..:scared-1: SO DAMN EX!!!!!!! like building condo!! but without swimming pool etc :doh:

den how about the loan ? many landed sellers nvr do proper valuation one...take it or leave it kind of attitude....all ask me to check with my own valuers blah blah....den how about the cost of construction? can take loan too? wats the interest rate?

looks like a HUGE INVESTMENT! one wrong move...DEAD:scared-3:

DC33_2008
30-07-10, 20:04
Reasonable construction cost should be between 180-200psf. It all depends on the quality, site conditions, design, etc.

focus
30-07-10, 20:06
Think bank can offer you construction loan.

Or you can just draw a credit facility with your bank to get COF+x% that you can renew monthly, weekly, yearly. Up to negotiation with bank and you.

land118
30-07-10, 21:00
Reasonable construction cost should be between 180-200psf. It all depends on the quality, site conditions, design, etc.

Few months ago, my contractor asked me to pulled down my single storey and build 2 1/2 sty, he say 4K sqft, can charge me $550k include design, submission etc - it's for very basic furnishes, no basement, no difficult access - in terms of construction , etc. I asked him sure or not, he say confirmed. I tell so low price maybe too basic to stay, maybe sell can. I asked him why so cheap, as i thought it will be about $700k for 4Ksqft, he say because the design is standard. He is building one now. so architectural fees if not much deviate, his cost not much changes.

anyway...you work out. Even if $700k for 4k sqft - will be $175psf - more reasonable.

my place - land is 2800sqft, single storey, last transacted at same lane for $2mil , damn old condition. Opposite neighbour bought by small niche developer - land 2650, tear down, rebuilit, with 4k sqft build-in, asking for $3mil now. So if one were to buy land, built...sell , maybe can make $300k-500k not bad, but need to go thru hassles.

I confirmed this with my contractor, ask him why he don't go into small time developer, just do A&A and rebuild for others, he tell me he not enough cash/bank loan to buy land. Need Partner to support him.

Just some comments from what i heard.

jlrx
30-07-10, 21:51
hey guys...it is better to start a thread on landed rather den toking about it at scala thread...yay?

i thinking of getting a old old single storey landed with land size min 1800 max 3000sqft....semi D or corner terrace...

however, how much do i goto fork out on rebuilding....wat r the steps of doing it? anyone did it recently? mind sharing ur precious experience?

and most imptly....how is lanf PSF is considered reasonable in D16/D13/D19 for old old single storey...

i realised very hard to find such houses leh....if got..also not cheap...only like 20% discount compared to brandnew ones:doh:

That is because landed folks have penetrating eyes like the Merlion.

http://www.focusgallery.nl/albums/TonyHelsloot/merlion_laser_eyes.thumb.jpg

Their eyes can see through the hot air from Miele ovens.

http://www.ivstatic.com/files/et/imagecache/636/files/slides/oven-fire-645.jpg

because they know that 100 years from now, the ovens will become worthless ...

http://home.arcor.de/r.kemmler/grafik/je_bama_oven.jpghttp://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/content/images/2005/03/08/4_oven_150x180.jpg

but the land will become more valuable ...

PROPERTISM Rule No. 2 - Land is more valuable than air.

teddybear
30-07-10, 22:10
A friend did that, and took 1 year to re-build completely. All in, including interior fittings & furnishings, >$300 psf (have to factor in Architect costs). Not many people have the time & bullet to re-build. Need a lot of time to choose architecture, contractors etc and still have to supervise (otherwise sure get Kotok! Pay for high-quality materials get swopped with low-quality materials etc).


looks dead...realised got another thread which mentioned about 250-300psf..:scared-1: SO DAMN EX!!!!!!! like building condo!! but without swimming pool etc :doh:

den how about the loan ? many landed sellers nvr do proper valuation one...take it or leave it kind of attitude....all ask me to check with my own valuers blah blah....den how about the cost of construction? can take loan too? wats the interest rate?

looks like a HUGE INVESTMENT! one wrong move...DEAD:scared-3:

DC33_2008
30-07-10, 22:20
However, it is the feeling of satisfaction after doing it. My house took about 13 months. I was also involved in the design of my place. I enjoyed doing it just like property investment. I am able to have substantial saving as I engaged only the Main contractor, structural engineer plus ID. You can develop the brief for the Architect if you want to get one. Aki fee is at least $40k. From there, you can develop the tender document and the Architect will help you to develop the detail and call for tender to look for a reasonably price project cost.
A friend did that, and took 1 year to re-build completely. All in, including interior fittings & furnishings, >$300 psf (have to factor in Architect costs). Not many people have the time & bullet to re-build. Need a lot of time to choose architecture, contractors etc and still have to supervise (otherwise sure get Kotok! Pay for high-quality materials get swopped with low-quality materials etc).

devilplate
30-07-10, 22:48
looks like ppl usually buy landed for own stay...i dun find it worthwhile to invest 2mil land+700k construction cost to make merely 300k 13-15mths later...inexperienced somemore...tio 'TOK' also duno:o

i did a few massive reno for old old resale condo b4....oredi got so angry ...frustrated with ID..contractors etc...all wana 'TOK' till the max....u goto find and liase with main con which can saves up nrly 50% compared to those ID designer if u let them handle everything....:scared-3:

so i can imagine ppl spending 200psf and another spending 300psf or more to rebuild house....

tks for precious inputs...i noe who to PM if i nid further assistance:D

proud owner
31-07-10, 00:03
looks like ppl usually buy landed for own stay...i dun find it worthwhile to invest 2mil land+700k construction cost to make merely 300k 13-15mths later...inexperienced somemore...tio 'TOK' also duno:o

i did a few massive reno for old old resale condo b4....oredi got so angry ...frustrated with ID..contractors etc...all wana 'TOK' till the max....u goto find and liase with main con which can saves up nrly 50% compared to those ID designer if u let them handle everything....:scared-3:

so i can imagine ppl spending 200psf and another spending 300psf or more to rebuild house....

tks for precious inputs...i noe who to PM if i nid further assistance:D


rebuild is 200-250 psf at least those cheaper ones .. i am not sure .. but they are cookie cutter ... 1 design for all .. so they save on many items ... but risk is the whole lane ..use the same contractor ..and all look the same ...

if u do AA ..thats about half the psf .. so like 100-125 psf .. but you can only increase the size of by 50 pct of the existing house ..

jlrx
31-07-10, 01:18
looks like ppl usually buy landed for own stay...i dun find it worthwhile to invest 2mil land+700k construction cost to make merely 300k 13-15mths later...inexperienced somemore...tio 'TOK' also duno:o

This $300k is compensation only for your time and effort. It excludes capital gains hence you cannot compare this with your flipping profits from condos.

To compare apples with apples, if you include capital gains on land price over the past few years which is easily over $1 million on average (for doing nothing but just holding the land), total profits can come to around $1.5 mililon to $2 million per project.

So if you want to undertake this type of redevelopment, you have to ask how the $300k for 13 to 15 months compare with the opportunity cost of your time after taking into account the risk of your capital.

proud owner
31-07-10, 01:32
This $300k is compensation only for your time and effort. It excludes capital gains hence you cannot compare this with your flipping profits from condos.

To compare apples with apples, if you include capital gains on land price over the past few years which is easily over $1 million on average (for doing nothing but just holding the land), total profits can come to around $1.5 mililon to $2 million per project.

So if you want to undertake this type of redevelopment, you have to ask how the $300k for 13 to 15 months compare with the opportunity cost of your time after taking into account the risk of your capital.


bingo ... .


if one doesnt want to spend that 300k... then just by a old old house and keep the land ..

i am sure between 2007-2010 ..the land value would have gone up at least 300-400 psf

devilplate
31-07-10, 01:34
This $300k is compensation only for your time and effort. It excludes capital gains hence you cannot compare this with your flipping profits from condos.

To compare apples with apples, if you include capital gains on land price over the past few years which is easily over $1 million on average (for doing nothing but just holding the land), total profits can come to around $1.5 mililon to $2 million per project.

So if you want to undertake this type of redevelopment, you have to ask how the $300k for 13 to 15 months compare with the opportunity cost of your time after taking into account the risk of your capital.

can i say it is always on hindsight?

i tink there is some misunderstanding...i assuming ppty price stays the same...if not how to say 300k profit...and tat 300k profit is merely based on a person's perceived profit. tats y i added in someone like me can easily get 'TOK' if i were to undertake such redevelopment for a mere projected 300k profit for the time and effort and again(asuming ppty prices stays the same)

very hard to compare landed vs air...to make a fair comparison...we shd based on the PPI for non landed vs landed and within a certain time frame....mabe let say from 2006 till now? but den also very hard to determine individual ppty rental yield achieved throughout the yrs for non landed vs landed....everything adds up.

anyway, be it landed or air space or hdb...all HUAT ARGH!!!!!!!

smtimes dun take my words on face value....i may be trying to be sarcastic....many ppl say condo prices r high...landed still cheap...:tsk-tsk: ...in fact, landed r facing a bigger bubble if i were to based on the % increase since last yr lows

when ppty market crash...hdb, condo and landed fall together:D

devilplate
31-07-10, 01:37
bingo ... .


if one doesnt want to spend that 300k... then just by a old old house and keep the land ..

i am sure between 2007-2010 ..the land value would have gone up at least 300-400 psf

air space also up leh....plus rental income...how to compare?

even hdb also up...in fact exceed all time high by the highest % compared to landed and non landed:D

land118
31-07-10, 09:59
bingo ... .


if one doesnt want to spend that 300k... then just by a old old house and keep the land ..

i am sure between 2007-2010 ..the land value would have gone up at least 300-400 psf

U are quite right. Best gains i know are from GCB, which is beyond reach of many. I know pple who have double or more for GCB bought only in 2008. Wow

DC33_2008
31-07-10, 10:32
Everyone out there is trying to TOK. Got TOK and gives inferior product is the worst. When I was doing reconstruction of my place, supervisors are local and workers are mainly malaysia. Now, Malaysian becomes supervisor and workers are mainly from India and Myanmar. You have find a trustworthy Main Contractor. In a similar land area around my area, the cost of construction has gone up by more than 50%.
looks like ppl usually buy landed for own stay...i dun find it worthwhile to invest 2mil land+700k construction cost to make merely 300k 13-15mths later...inexperienced somemore...tio 'TOK' also duno:o

i did a few massive reno for old old resale condo b4....oredi got so angry ...frustrated with ID..contractors etc...all wana 'TOK' till the max....u goto find and liase with main con which can saves up nrly 50% compared to those ID designer if u let them handle everything....:scared-3:

so i can imagine ppl spending 200psf and another spending 300psf or more to rebuild house....

tks for precious inputs...i noe who to PM if i nid further assistance:D

devilplate
31-07-10, 11:08
U are quite right. Best gains i know are from GCB, which is beyond reach of many. I know pple who have double or more for GCB bought only in 2008. Wow

like the one who sold his land to FEO at crazy prices recently

we can only dream on....:o

devilplate
31-07-10, 11:10
Everyone out there is trying to TOK. Got TOK and gives inferior product is the worst. When I was doing reconstruction of my place, supervisors are local and workers are mainly malaysia. Now, Malaysian becomes supervisor and workers are mainly from India and Myanmar. You have find a trustworthy Main Contractor. In a similar land area around my area, the cost of construction has gone up by more than 50%.

haiz...nvm...i treat it as a learning process now...just go view landed on and off whenever i am free....when the opportunities comes...make sure i dun miss it again:o

DC33_2008
31-07-10, 11:17
haiz...nvm...i treat it as a learning process now...just go view landed on and off whenever i am free....when the opportunities comes...make sure i dun miss it again:o

There is always undervalued properties either landed, condo or apt which has potential in capital gain. Just got to be patient and find them. It's like oil exploration in the ocean. Becomes richer when find one.

chho
31-07-10, 23:25
Do you stay on brockhampton drive?


Few months ago, my contractor asked me to pulled down my single storey and build 2 1/2 sty, he say 4K sqft, can charge me $550k include design, submission etc - it's for very basic furnishes, no basement, no difficult access - in terms of construction , etc. I asked him sure or not, he say confirmed. I tell so low price maybe too basic to stay, maybe sell can. I asked him why so cheap, as i thought it will be about $700k for 4Ksqft, he say because the design is standard. He is building one now. so architectural fees if not much deviate, his cost not much changes.

anyway...you work out. Even if $700k for 4k sqft - will be $175psf - more reasonable.

my place - land is 2800sqft, single storey, last transacted at same lane for $2mil , damn old condition. Opposite neighbour bought by small niche developer - land 2650, tear down, rebuilit, with 4k sqft build-in, asking for $3mil now. So if one were to buy land, built...sell , maybe can make $300k-500k not bad, but need to go thru hassles.

I confirmed this with my contractor, ask him why he don't go into small time developer, just do A&A and rebuild for others, he tell me he not enough cash/bank loan to buy land. Need Partner to support him.

Just some comments from what i heard.

limfc
31-07-10, 23:28
ermm seems like rebuilding is very effort and capital intensive.... some more, also may get cheated by contractors.... :doh:

why not buy a 'pretty new' (say, renovated 5-8 yrs ago?) FH landed property with existing tenancy (of coz e rent must be >= mortgage+misc expenses), in an area with 1.4 plot ratio and ..... wait :sleep: ..... wait :sleep: .... wait :sleep: .... wait :sleep: .... :sleep: :sleep:

then suddenly :eek:, lotsa $$$$ fall from the skies :rolleyes:, coz got developer wanna buy adjoining units to develop to 5-storey condo... hee...... :cheers6:

nice dream hor? :D

jlrx
31-07-10, 23:55
ermm seems like rebuilding is very effort and capital intensive.... some more, also may get cheated by contractors.... :doh:

why not buy a 'pretty new' (say, renovated 5-8 yrs ago?) FH landed property with existing tenancy (of coz e rent must be >= mortgage+misc expenses), in an area with 1.4 plot ratio and ..... wait :sleep: ..... wait :sleep: .... wait :sleep: .... wait :sleep: .... :sleep: :sleep:

then suddenly :eek:, lotsa $$$$ fall from the skies :rolleyes:, coz got developer wanna buy adjoining units to develop to 5-storey condo... hee...... :cheers6:

nice dream hor? :D

It's not a dream. Singapore simply cannot afford to have landed properties because they're very space consuming and uneconomical.

Hence eventually all landed will be turned into condos like in the major cities London and Hong Kong.

The only exceptions will be super luxurious bungalows like Kensington Palace Gardens aka "Billionaires Row" or Hong Kong's seaview villas costing $100 million and above.

However, when this day comes, we will not be in this world anymore. That's why we must practise the PROPERTISM religion, so that we can ascend to PROPERTISM Heaven and look down happily through the clouds.

http://trdesign.typepad.com/trdesign/images/2007/10/19/city_through_the_clouds.jpg

PROPERTISM Rule No. 1 - Property prices always go up in the long term hence properties should only be bought and not sold.

PROPERTISM Rule No. 2 - Land is more valuable than air.

rattydrama
02-08-10, 09:42
can I know for a 1800 land area, can it accomodate 4000 built up?

spikey69
03-08-10, 01:47
can I know for a 1800 land area, can it accomodate 4000 built up?


yes - can. I stay in 1700 sq ft with 3650 built up. But it depends on height restrictions and u may have to create a basement (expensive) to reach your targeted 4000.

proud owner
05-08-10, 23:20
would anyone pay 1000 psf for 99 LH landed at Holland Grove ? TOP-ed 1997

jlrx
06-08-10, 01:34
would anyone pay 1000 psf for 99 LH landed at Holland Grove ? TOP-ed 1997

Seems like quite a number of people are willing to pay that.

The strange thing is that the psf is the same as the freehold Holland Grove Park nearby! :scared-4: (Although Holland Grove Park's are mostly bungalows with larger land areas).

Holland Grove View (99 Years)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/HollandGrove99YearsLanded.jpg

Holland Grove Park (Freehold)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/HollandGroveParkFreeholdLanded.jpg

proud owner
06-08-10, 03:27
Seems like quite a number of people are willing to pay that.

The strange thing is that the psf is the same as the freehold Holland Grove Park nearby! :scared-4: (Although Holland Grove Park's are mostly bungalows with larger land areas).

Holland Grove View (99 Years)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/HollandGrove99YearsLanded.jpg

Holland Grove Park (Freehold)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/HollandGroveParkFreeholdLanded.jpg

what is the draw of that area ? that people are willing to pay at and above 1000 psf for 13 yo 99 LH semi / terrace there ?

when for the same land size and FH ..they are many choices in other districts or even further down at D21

teddybear
06-08-10, 10:44
How to compare D21 to D10? :D
$1000 psf in Holland area still VERY cheap! :cheers1:
considering that Seletar 99LH also can sell average $950 psf! :banghead:


what is the draw of that area ? that people are willing to pay at and above 1000 psf for 13 yo 99 LH semi / terrace there ?

when for the same land size and FH ..they are many choices in other districts or even further down at D21

devilplate
06-08-10, 10:50
what is the draw of that area ? that people are willing to pay at and above 1000 psf for 13 yo 99 LH semi / terrace there ?

when for the same land size and FH ..they are many choices in other districts or even further down at D21

it just shows tat everyone is born differently:D

bargain hunter
06-08-10, 12:13
but 99 year condo easier to en-bloc donkey years down the road but not so easy for landed?


How to compare D21 to D10? :D
$1000 psf in Holland area still VERY cheap! :cheers1:
considering that Seletar 99LH also can sell average $950 psf! :banghead:

teddybear
06-08-10, 13:37
Don't think there is statistics to support that? Anyway, 99 year condo owners have no time to wait (time not on their side)! Properties just like wine, the longer you can hold the better it is! :D


but 99 year condo easier to en-bloc donkey years down the road but not so easy for landed?

bargain hunter
06-08-10, 15:06
just a guess, i mean, landed individual owners, need to buy them one by one then amalgamate to build something of bigger scale while condo can go through once a certain amount of votes go through and developer straightaway has a decent enough plot of land to work with.



Don't think there is statistics to support that? Anyway, 99 year condo owners have no time to wait (time not on their side)! Properties just like wine, the longer you can hold the better it is! :D

DC33_2008
06-08-10, 21:47
D13 FH landed property has reached $1330 psf.

proud owner
07-08-10, 00:40
How to compare D21 to D10? :D
$1000 psf in Holland area still VERY cheap! :cheers1:
considering that Seletar 99LH also can sell average $950 psf! :banghead:

of course in general cannot compared D10 and D21 ..

i am talking about those in holland grove, those 99 LH landed are deep inside .. almost reaching D21 ...

so why pay 1000-1300 psf for these LH landed ?

devilplate
07-08-10, 00:53
of course in general cannot compared D10 and D21 ..

i am talking about those in holland grove, those 99 LH landed are deep inside .. almost reaching D21 ...

so why pay 1000-1300 psf for these LH landed ?

sames goes to sentosa LH99 landed....y those super richies pay so much?:beats-me-man: ....sentosa land scarce?

14 Treasure Island
99 Yrs From 09/01/2006
$1577
11281
$17800k
18 Jun 10
4 Treasure Island
99 Yrs From 09/01/2006
$1613
9268
$14950k
26 Apr 10
6 Treasure Island
99 Yrs From 09/01/2006
$1585
8633
$13680k
22 Apr 10
10 Treasure Island
99 Yrs From 09/01/2006
$1633
8568
$14000k
13 Apr 10
11 Treasure Island
99 Yrs From 09/01/2006
$1609
8579
$13800k
30 Mar 10
12 Treasure Island
99 Yrs From 09/01/2006
$1712
8643
$14800k
24 Mar 10
3 Treasure Island
99 Yrs From 09/01/2006
$1662
8579
$14250k
17 Oct 09

proud owner
07-08-10, 00:57
sames goes to sentosa LH99 landed....y those super richies pay so much?:beats-me-man: ....sentosa land scarce?


sentosa differnt mah ...seafront living ..

i can understand that some LH can command same price as FH nearby .. if the location is really superb ...

but specifically Holland Grove LH ..what is good about it ? when it deep inside, 13 yo , old design ..

when some old ones, FH , at Maryland ..are not much more expensive ,,

i am not trying to be sarcastic but geniunely asking for those who may know ...

devilplate
07-08-10, 01:03
sentosa differnt mah ...seafront living ..

i can understand that some LH can command same price as FH nearby .. if the location is really superb ...

but specifically Holland Grove LH ..what is good about it ? when it deep inside, 13 yo , old design ..

when some old ones, FH , at Maryland ..are not much more expensive ,,

i am not trying to be sarcastic but geniunely asking for those who may know ...

mabe u shd ask y those sellers at maryland selling so cheap:D

teddybear
07-08-10, 13:00
Oh you mean the Mount Sinai area? That area is more Ulu Pandan / Clementi to me (although regarded as having D10 address but I believe many don't regard it as real D10).


of course in general cannot compared D10 and D21 ..

i am talking about those in holland grove, those 99 LH landed are deep inside .. almost reaching D21 ...

so why pay 1000-1300 psf for these LH landed ?

devilplate
07-08-10, 13:27
Oh you mean the Mount Sinai area? That area is more Ulu Pandan / Clementi to me (although regarded as having D10 address but I believe many don't regard it as real D10).

ooo....got the word ULU.....no wonder sell cheaper?

jlrx
07-08-10, 22:53
sentosa differnt mah ...seafront living ..

i can understand that some LH can command same price as FH nearby .. if the location is really superb ...

but specifically Holland Grove LH ..what is good about it ? when it deep inside, 13 yo , old design ..

when some old ones, FH , at Maryland ..are not much more expensive ,,

i am not trying to be sarcastic but geniunely asking for those who may know ...
mabe u shd ask y those sellers at maryland selling so cheap:D

Maryland Drive houses are huge. The quantum very hard to swallow, even if you know the psf is more value for money, being 999 yrs/ 937 yrs properties compared to Holland Grove View which is 99 years.

That's one of the problems in property investment. The quantum.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/MarylandDrive999YearsLanded.jpg

devilplate
08-08-10, 01:16
er...u answer for him liao...no fun

proud owner
08-08-10, 02:20
er...u answer for him liao...no fun


for real value investments, should one look at quantum only?

i may have invested in a few props ...but i am still learning ...any si-fu care to impart more hidden tips ?

devilplate
08-08-10, 11:14
for real value investments, should one look at quantum only?

i may have invested in a few props ...but i am still learning ...any si-fu care to impart more hidden tips ?

die die wana stay in landed for tat particular location but budget constraint...

some die die wana stay in landed and prefer close to town but ended up in ulu sembawang due to quantum

some die die wana stay close to town and prefer landed but ended up staying in condo in town due to quantum

some say buy car liability while other says luxury cars for enjoyment

some say buy 99LH landed/condo got expiry date while others say rental yield/quantum/their preferred location more impt

some say buy FH landed can leave for next generation while others say we will not outlived 99yrs so y bother

Just buy something which u tink is worthy of and makes u happy can liao:D