The Minton (D19, 99 years leasehold, Kheng Leong) [Archive] - Page 4 - Condo Forum Singapore Property Review Mortgage Loan Buy Rent Sell Real Estate

DC33_2008

14-04-11, 17:11

This project is good for own-stay not so much for investment for rental yield.
Yes, that is one drawback for this project. I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too. It's a trade-off. Lesser residents in a project means lesser facilities available since no economy of scale or maintenance fees will be high. Just have to wait and see how it turns out. My feel is that the swimming pool and spa are novelties that will wear out after some time. The library, shops and badminton dome will be utilised most of the time. Most importantly, the units are all quite good facing with ample space between the blocks. Hardly can find such projects nowadays if privacy is an important consideration.

fclim

14-04-11, 17:25

Agree, more for own stay now. But, things may change in the future. The HDB lease for the whole of Defu industrial estate will be up in 2 to 3 years time. Not sure what the authorities have in mind. If they convert to business park to complement the Paya Lebar Industrial development, then maybe got potential for rental yield.

DC33_2008

14-04-11, 17:42

It has to compete with other developments that are close to mrt stn and yield may not be attractive.
Agree, more for own stay now. But, things may change in the future. The HDB lease for the whole of Defu industrial estate will be up in 2 to 3 years time. Not sure what the authorities have in mind. If they convert to business park to complement the Paya Lebar Industrial development, then maybe got potential for rental yield.

Petertan123

15-04-11, 08:03

Just bought a 3 bedder + study at near 900psf. Now kinda worry am i overpaying liaoo, given the bland location with little investment upside.. :doh:

Anyone can kindly advise ?? Thanks..

land118

15-04-11, 09:00

Just bought a 3 bedder + study at near 900psf. Now kinda worry am i overpaying liaoo, given the bland location with little investment upside.. :doh:

Anyone can kindly advise ?? Thanks..If buy to stay, no worries la. For investment, I personally think the are a few condos closer to MRT than this development there will be competition for rental from project itself and from surrounding development. Take heart, nearby Urban Residence is already launching at about $900++. Since committed already, no point worrying.

azeoprop

15-04-11, 10:31

Just bought a 3 bedder + study at near 900psf. Now kinda worry am i overpaying liaoo, given the bland location with little investment upside.. :doh:

Anyone can kindly advise ?? Thanks..

Good for own stay and eventually there will be demand for people looking for own stay if u want to sell next time. The so called investment properties these days all are downsized, cramped and overpriced units.

mantrix

15-04-11, 11:04

Good for own stay and eventually there will be demand for people looking for own stay if u want to sell next time. The so called investment properties these days all are downsized, cramped and overpriced units.

agree - no regrets if buying to stay...

bargain hunter

15-04-11, 13:07

14 sold in mar at 885psf median.

Ultroman

15-04-11, 13:15

Hi all Minton buyers, jus check if anyone has started their loan for 1st 10% of progress payment

fclim

15-04-11, 13:56

Just bought a 3 bedder + study at near 900psf. Now kinda worry am i overpaying liaoo, given the bland location with little investment upside.. :doh:

Anyone can kindly advise ?? Thanks..

I don't think the location is bland at all. Although it is not next to MRT like Kovan Melody or Kovan Residences, the MRT is still reasonably close by and there is a free shuttle service for the first 2 years. If it is next to MRT with amenities, you wouldn't be paying <$900psf.

It is in quite a mature area, served by bus services and schools. Better than some other location where you are the pioneer in the estate.

For own stay and can safely afford the mortgage, there should be no worries. Any investment upside will be a bonus.

The question I ask myself is this. Are there any other new developments in the same area with this kind of price? If the answer is no, then you are not overpaying. Even H2O in Sengkang is selling above $900 psf. When the developer increase price which I think they will, then you will say, "Heng ah".

Petertan123

15-04-11, 18:33

dtrax

15-04-11, 18:50

Petertan123

15-04-11, 18:58

vinlow

15-04-11, 19:04

Thanks all for your feedback.

Now the next question is that which bank is better for loaning ? I have two main consideration in mind when choosing banks :
- competitive rate
- less likely to ask for property value topup when in crisis time

Any recommendations ? heard that "O" and "U" local bank are quite good lehh... not sure true or not... :)

I'm looking at a 3 rm unit but yet to sign on the dotted line. Thinking whether should I wait after GE. Any advise on this?

About the rates, below is what I gather:

CIMB - 2yrs locked in no free conversion
1st yr - 0.65% +3m SOR
2nd yr - 0.85 + 3m SOR

UOB - 2 yrs locked in with one time free conversion within 3m after TOP
1st yr - 0.68%
2nd yr - 1.37%
3rd yr - 1.98%

or

1st yr - 0.65% + 3m SOR
2nd yr - 0.75% + 3m SOR
3rd yr - 1% + 3m SOR

OCBC

1st - 4th yr - 0.75% + 3m SIBOR

current SOR rate = 0.25%, SIBOR = 0.44%

dtrax

15-04-11, 19:13

How about the top up part ? did they ask for top up during the previous two crisis ?

What I really fear is where got few hundred thousands to cough out when the property value drops ? :scared-1:

I heard local banks are safer bet than foreign...

Usually local banks more "compassionate", how true is that I am not sure, have not encounter that before. But at 60% LTV, the banks are actually in a very safe position even if prices do drop so I would say top up unlikely

dtrax

15-04-11, 19:14

I'm looking at a 3 rm unit but yet to sign on the dotted line. Thinking whether should I wait after GE. Any advise on this?

About the rates, below is what I gather:

CIMB - 2yrs locked in no free conversion
1st yr - 0.65% +3m SOR
2nd yr - 0.85 + 3m SOR

UOB - 2 yrs locked in with one time free conversion within 3m after TOP
1st yr - 0.68%
2nd yr - 1.37%
3rd yr - 1.98%

or

1st yr - 0.65% + 3m SOR
2nd yr - 0.75% + 3m SOR
3rd yr - 1% + 3m SOR

OCBC

1st - 4th yr - 0.75% + 3m SIBOR

current SOR rate = 0.25%, SIBOR = 0.44%

What are the rates there after?

wacko

15-04-11, 19:35

Usually local banks more "compassionate", how true is that I am not sure, have not encounter that before. But at 60% LTV, the banks are actually in a very safe position even if prices do drop so I would say top up unlikely60%? are you assuming everyone has a 2nd property?

DaytonaSS

15-04-11, 20:05

fclim

15-04-11, 20:39

Try not to stretch to max 80%. Initial mortgage payment quite low for uncompeted projects and gets progressively more as the units are being built. So, take 80% first is ok. Upon TOP take advantage of free conversion and reduce loan to 70% or 60%.

DC33_2008

15-04-11, 23:11

ANZ 0.75% + 3 mth SOR throughout no lock in.
I'm looking at a 3 rm unit but yet to sign on the dotted line. Thinking whether should I wait after GE. Any advise on this?

About the rates, below is what I gather:

CIMB - 2yrs locked in no free conversion
1st yr - 0.65% +3m SOR
2nd yr - 0.85 + 3m SOR

UOB - 2 yrs locked in with one time free conversion within 3m after TOP
1st yr - 0.68%
2nd yr - 1.37%
3rd yr - 1.98%

or

1st yr - 0.65% + 3m SOR
2nd yr - 0.75% + 3m SOR
3rd yr - 1% + 3m SOR

OCBC

1st - 4th yr - 0.75% + 3m SIBOR

current SOR rate = 0.25%, SIBOR = 0.44%

Petertan123

16-04-11, 19:22

HSBC / DBS not bad.. juz redid mine at 0.7% + 3mths sibor no lockin for entire loan tenure.

Yup... DBS is higher at 0.75%+SIBOR... but the concern on top up part lehhh for foreign bank like HSBC.. hmmmm

fclim

16-04-11, 20:20

I thought DBS has a lock in period? If you sell prematurely, there is a penalty on the portion of the loan that is not disbursed. No penalty on the portion of the loan that has been disbursed though.

azeoprop

16-04-11, 22:51

Hi all Minton buyers, jus check if anyone has started their loan for 1st 10% of progress payment

I think our stack 52 block not so soon, still pilling I think. Those 4 bedders ones may have started paying liaoz as they are doing level 1 now. :beats-me-man:

fclim

17-04-11, 01:51

I think our stack 52 block not so soon, still pilling I think. Those 4 bedders ones may have started paying liaoz as they are doing level 1 now. :beats-me-man:

Seems to be progressing quite fast. One floor every 2 to 3 weeks? At this rate, maybe TOP end 2012 or early 2013? Still have not launched the other 50% yet. The first 600 units I think about 87% sold.

Petertan123

17-04-11, 11:02

I thought DBS has a lock in period? If you sell prematurely, there is a penalty on the portion of the loan that is not disbursed. No penalty on the portion of the loan that has been disbursed though.

From what I heard is that DBS has two packages,ie, one for BUC and one for completed.

For BUC, there is no lock in except 3 yrs clawback for legal subsidy..

hmm..have to check with DBS again on this...

fclim

17-04-11, 18:18

yeosp

17-04-11, 18:36

new2mondrian

18-04-11, 00:23

There are 6 shops in The Minton, one of which is a child care centre. What should the other 5 be?
1. Convenience store like 7/11.
2. Small cafe/McDonalds?
3. Hair salon.
4. Bookshop selling stationeries like Popular?
5. Laundromat/Tuition centre/4D betting outlet(ha ha)?

The commercial use of the retail shops are as stated in the specs package from the developer received shortly after we exercised the option. Go and take a look. The retail shops comes with very specific specs. One laundromat, one childcare, one minimart and so on. No 4d shop sighted.

I haven't got billed for my 10% as well.

Azeoprop, thanks for the pics! Very helpful.

fclim

18-04-11, 14:03

I see, thanks.

ysyap

20-04-11, 06:25

Seems to be progressing quite fast. One floor every 2 to 3 weeks? At this rate, maybe TOP end 2012 or early 2013? Still have not launched the other 50% yet. The first 600 units I think about 87% sold.Waiting for the best time to launch the remaining units.. Maybe soon coz data released have been suggesting that market is holding on the escalating prices, though slow but steady.:scared-4:

fclim

20-04-11, 10:34

Waiting for the best time to launch the remaining units.. Maybe soon coz data released have been suggesting that market is holding on the escalating prices, though slow but steady.:scared-4:

I think waiting for Terrasse@Hougang Ave 2 to launch, If at $950psf and good take up rate, then Minton might possibly launch the remaining units at the same price.

devilplate

20-04-11, 10:43

I think waiting for Terrasse@Hougang Ave 2 to launch, If at $950psf and good take up rate, then Minton might possibly launch the remaining units at the same price.

this hougang one aso far from MRT wor.....i tink 8xxpsf more likely.....9xxpsf, buyer better go for 8court/hedges

ysyap

20-04-11, 11:14

It is interesting to note that Urban Residence just 100m from Minton is asking for 1100+ psf. Given a choice between tenure, cost and size of project, which would be preferred? I think I might be tempted to go for Urban Residence.

devilplate

20-04-11, 11:19

2824

20-04-11, 11:20

Think terrasse will be capped by waterline still selling after more than a year?. slightly better location (in the middle of landed) & 999 years

I think waiting for Terrasse@Hougang Ave 2 to launch, If at $950psf and good take up rate, then Minton might possibly launch the remaining units at the same price.

mantrix

20-04-11, 11:31

Think terrasse will be capped by waterline still selling after more than a year?. slightly better location (in the middle of landed) & 999 years

i almost bought waterline but realised the land is sunken (flash floods jia lat) and developer no good

ysyap

20-04-11, 11:43

i almost bought waterline but realised the land is sunken (flash floods jia lat) and developer no goodWaterline is overpriced... :scared-4:

ysyap

20-04-11, 11:44

I would have gotten the 4 bedders in Minton if it is slightly nearer to MRT and if there are less than 600 units...

2824

20-04-11, 12:58

i also like the 4 bedder @ minton after viewing the showflat..:) .

I would have gotten the 4 bedders in Minton if it is slightly nearer to MRT and if there are less than 600 units...

fclim

21-04-11, 17:23

i also like the 4 bedder @ minton after viewing the showflat..:) .

I thought the second balcony at the rear for the 4 bedder is quite useful. Can't find this in many other new projects except Clover by the Park.

azeoprop

21-04-11, 17:49

I thought the second balcony at the rear for the 4 bedder is quite useful. Can't find this in many other new projects except Clover by the Park.

Their 3+ study also got this feature. :)

fclim

21-04-11, 18:39

Their 3+ study also got this feature. :)

Oh yes, those too. ;) There are 1145 units in the project and 1151 carpark lots. There are also some open carpark lots (I counted 57 lots from the siteplan). If assume 6 visitor lots are open lots, then there are only 1,094 basement carpark lots. Not sure if that is enough and some may end up parking in open lots (which are not sheltered).

ysyap

21-04-11, 20:20

6 visitors lot for 1100+ households, that's miserable. Rio Vista has only abt 600 units but has about 20 visitor's lot. My friend's condo has at least 60 visitor's lot. :doh:

DC33_2008

21-04-11, 20:33

It will be a problem during festive season or when you throw a party.
6 visitors lot for 1100+ households, that's miserable. Rio Vista has only abt 600 units but has about 20 visitor's lot. My friend's condo has at least 60 visitor's lot. :doh:

azeoprop

21-04-11, 21:03

Nowadays most new condos have 1:1 carpark lots. :(

DC33_2008

21-04-11, 21:14

Some even has 3:1 for some. Some condos in town are the opposite with about 40% of their carpark lots empty and lease out. With redevelopment of market street carpark, they can up their parking fees now.
Nowadays most new condos have 1:1 carpark lots. :(

land118

21-04-11, 21:24

This condo I reckon should have many buyers who buy to stay, so many will own a car or 2. weekend and festive season may not be enough. Hope that their parking lot signalling system is good and informative becos sometimes to find the only empty lot among the 1k may be tough and frustrating.

DC33_2008

21-04-11, 21:36

Worst scenario when two cars waiting for one lot. Who will park? Size, model, make,etc ?Can be rather ugly.
This condo I reckon should have many buyers who buy to stay, so many will own a car or 2. weekend and festive season may not be enough. Hope that their parking lot signalling system is good and informative becos sometimes to find the only empty lot among the 1k may be tough and frustrating.

land118

21-04-11, 21:49

Worst scenario when two cars waiting for one lot. Who will park? Size, model, make,etc ?Can be rather ugly.
Come to cars, driving on the road and parking, we are very competitive. See who's car bigger, flashier, and who more gungho....

azeoprop

21-04-11, 22:59

Come to cars, driving on the road and parking, we are very competitive. See who's car bigger, flashier, and who more gungho....

Then u will start seeing people put tissue paper packs on the parking lots haa haa.... :rolleyes:

Petertan123

21-04-11, 23:18

Hi all,

I just gotten the SA from the developer.. Can share with me if there are anything to watch out for in such document ?

Thanks.

mantrix

21-04-11, 23:59

Waterline is overpriced... :scared-4:

yes true, at that time.

not now though :im-a-gonna-get-u:

land118

22-04-11, 00:11

Then u will start seeing people put tissue paper packs on the parking lots haa haa.... :rolleyes:
Good one, super ks residents will use big tissue box!:D

fclim

22-04-11, 11:12

Surrounding HDBs got ample lots and free parking on Sun and PHs. So maybe the developers took that into consideration.

fclim

22-04-11, 11:17

Hi all,

I just gotten the SA from the developer.. Can share with me if there are anything to watch out for in such document ?

Thanks.
It's a standard agreement that is quite fair to both parties. Your lawyer should be able to advise you. I didn't find anything unusual or against the buyer.

Petertan123

24-04-11, 07:45

Anyone knows how many units Minton has sold so far ?

azeoprop

24-04-11, 09:02

Anyone knows how many units Minton has sold so far ?

According to ura data, 535 units sold so far till end of March. :)

teddybear

24-04-11, 09:11

Terrible. That is why I say if nobody buy condo estate with <115% car park lots to units, developers will not be able to rip you off!
My estate has about 135% car park lots.

6 visitors lot for 1100+ households, that's miserable. Rio Vista has only abt 600 units but has about 20 visitor's lot. My friend's condo has at least 60 visitor's lot. :doh:

devilplate

24-04-11, 09:19

Terrible. That is why I say if nobody buy condo estate with <115% car park lots to units, developers will not be able to rip you off!
My estate has about 135% car park lots.
Only luxury homes provide more lots nowadays

Petertan123

24-04-11, 10:22

According to ura data, 535 units sold so far till end of March. :)

arghh.. so only near 50%.... wonder what thee big boys r thinking... shld launch early.. sell finish early, and finally TOP early mahh... :tongue3:

cant wait to TOP... think up to now the first 10% not even collected yet...

kane

24-04-11, 10:41

Considering they have 1100 units, being able to sell 500 units so far is a nice achievement.

edwinleeap

24-04-11, 10:48

I reckon the developer will sell 20 plus units each month and the momentum may pick up as the disparity in prices between newer launches grows. Very likely, Kheng Leong will gradually up the selling price to be closer to current launch price.

fclim

24-04-11, 10:55

Only 600 units launched so far. So, 535 units sold is 89% which is not bad.

moshimoshi

24-04-11, 11:15

Do you guys find the Specifications in the brochures?

vinlow

24-04-11, 16:37

Only 600 units launched so far. So, 535 units sold is 89% which is not bad.

The URA number has a lapsed time of a few months.
My agent told me the total unit sold till date is more than 640.

edwinleeap

24-04-11, 16:51

That's pretty good. If prices remain flat for this project, it can sell out soon.

azeoprop

24-04-11, 18:17

Btw, they released a stack of 2 bedder that comes with the white theme finishing of the 3 bedder. That stack is 20.

e.g. #05-20 980sqft $851k

kingkong1984

24-04-11, 20:57

Wow, cheap by today's standard liao

devilplate

24-04-11, 21:05

Wow, cheap by today's standard liao
Not really....850k quantum got limited upside

kingkong1984

24-04-11, 21:11

Not really....850k quantum got limited upside
Agree, as said way way earlier, up graders market only.

Need 1k psf to break even in first year.

Thereafter will be much better.

teddybear

24-04-11, 21:40

Private properties need to use HDB facilities? :doh:
Might as well buy HDB instead! :banghead:
Rally can't understand these buyers! :beats-me-man:

Surrounding HDBs got ample lots and free parking on Sun and PHs. So maybe the developers took that into consideration.

azeoprop

24-04-11, 22:02

Not really....850k quantum got limited upside

Yah many would prefer to buy a compact 3 bedder with the same size and same price instead. :beats-me-man:

moshimoshi

24-04-11, 22:23

Btw, they released a stack of 2 bedder that comes with the white theme finishing of the 3 bedder. That stack is 20.

e.g. #05-20 980sqft $851k

Do you know if they have released any new stacks of 3 bedders?

ysyap

25-04-11, 07:49

Do you know if they have released any new stacks of 3 bedders? No worries even if its not released. There are actually several unreleased units already sold. Just tell the agent you want this particular stack and unit number. They can check with developer then you might just grab that unit before its even launched. :D

ysyap

25-04-11, 07:50

Only 600 units launched so far. So, 535 units sold is 89% which is not bad.Bear in mind that the 535 units sold include units which are not launched yet. Think its about 5% of that figure so its actually lower than 89% but still it is impressive. However, this project is already 1+ year in the market already... :spliff:

fclim

25-04-11, 20:58

Private properties need to use HDB facilities? :doh:
Might as well buy HDB instead! :banghead:
Rally can't understand these buyers! :beats-me-man:

Was refering to visitors lah, since only 6 lots provided.

azeoprop

25-04-11, 21:10

fclim

25-04-11, 21:35

I believe this project will eventually be in demand from real families wanting to find a true condo to stay.

Those newer projects with 'compact' sized apartments simply will not be people's preference for long term stay. :tsk-tsk:

I believe so too. Its comprehensive facilities and larger sized units are unique and will be the selling points. It is not ideally located, but bearable enough. Currently, projects next to MRT or those with reservoir views are hot and on many people's radar. This project is probably not the type that you will immediately write a cheque on the first visit, but after a while, you will get to appreciate it's potential.

teddybear

25-04-11, 21:54

It is really ashame to be living in condo and then ask hold a party and ask my relatives and/or friends to go park at the HDB car park 500m away and walk to my house! :banghead:
Why buy such such condos? Ops! Better buy HDB instead, as they can just park downstairs. :beats-me-man:

Was refering to visitors lah, since only 6 lots provided.

DC33_2008

25-04-11, 21:58

This is likely to be the case with most condos, especially new ones.
It is really ashame to be living in condo and then ask hold a party and ask my relatives and/or friends to go park at the HDB car park 500m away and walk to my house! :banghead:
Why buy such such condos? Ops! Better buy HDB instead, as they can just park downstairs. :beats-me-man:

fclim

25-04-11, 22:09

It is really ashame to be living in condo and then ask hold a party and ask my relatives and/or friends to go park at the HDB car park 500m away and walk to my house! :banghead:
Why buy such such condos? Ops! Better buy HDB instead, as they can just park downstairs. :beats-me-man:

Better than nothing. Landed and cluster houses also got this problem. Don't see those landed/cluster house buyers prefering HDB instead so that all their kampung folk can park downstairs?

DC33_2008

25-04-11, 22:13

Depends on the type of landed property. Not sure what of type of landed are you referring to.
Better than nothing. Landed and cluster houses also got this problem. Don't see those landed/cluster house buyers prefering HDB instead so that all their kampung folk can park downstairs?

fclim

25-04-11, 22:19

Depends on the type of landed property. Not sure what of type of landed are you referring to.

Normal terrace houses or semi-Ds. Not GCBs. When throwing party, mostly friends/relatives need to find somewhere to park. Sometimes can be quite far away.

ysyap

26-04-11, 05:43

I believe so too. Its comprehensive facilities and larger sized units are unique and will be the selling points. It is not ideally located, but bearable enough. Currently, projects next to MRT or those with reservoir views are hot and on many people's radar. This project is probably not the type that you will immediately write a cheque on the first visit, but after a while, you will get to appreciate it's potential.One huge factor that prevented me from writing a cheque was the fact that with 1000+ household using those interesting facilities in the development, its like staying in HDB where 1000+ household using the swimming pool, gym, spa, and going to the provision shops, etc. No difference! Condo price without exclusive condo feel.

devilplate

26-04-11, 08:35

One huge factor that prevented me from writing a cheque was the fact that with 1000+ household using those interesting facilities in the development, its like staying in HDB where 1000+ household using the swimming pool, gym, spa, and going to the provision shops, etc. No difference! Condo price without exclusive condo feel.

for me....the px and quantum is just not right.....(big balconies/planter and baywindows)

fan

26-04-11, 13:09

Btw, they released a stack of 2 bedder that comes with the white theme finishing of the 3 bedder. That stack is 20.

e.g. #05-20 980sqft $851k

Say if you aldready bought a unit in this stack 20 which was not released officially previously, now that developer "upgrade" the finishing to that of the 3 bedder, will you be getting the upgrade too?

bargain hunter

26-04-11, 13:13

no u won't. for e.g. kovan residences previously 4+1 bedroom units, towards the end of the sales they carved out another bedroom to make it 5 bedroom, surely the earlier 4 bedroom units cannot all request to be converted to 5 bedrooms right?

Say if you aldready bought a unit in this stack 20 which was not released officially previously, now that developer "upgrade" the finishing to that of the 3 bedder, will you be getting the upgrade too?

azeoprop

26-04-11, 14:15

Say if you aldready bought a unit in this stack 20 which was not released officially previously, now that developer "upgrade" the finishing to that of the 3 bedder, will you be getting the upgrade too?

That one I am not sure, but the agent said this stack has a slight premium over the normal finishing types. Maybe can write in to the developer and ask. :beats-me-man:

ysyap

27-04-11, 07:49

Developer may use you as a promoter for them by agreeing to your request then you will tell others they are good so its a cheap advertisement.:spliff:

azeoprop

28-04-11, 18:04

Update 28 April 2011. :)

Petertan123

28-04-11, 23:09

wah... at this rate any chance of TOP at ed 2013 instead ?

or remain still at 2014 ?? :tongue3:

fclim

01-05-11, 12:14

wah... at this rate any chance of TOP at ed 2013 instead ?

or remain still at 2014 ?? :tongue3:

Quite possible.

azeoprop

08-05-11, 15:15

Update 8th May 2011. :D

vinlow

09-05-11, 12:19

Any advice on whether the price for Minton will drop now that it is under the opposition's ward?

fclim

09-05-11, 12:54

Any advice on whether the price for Minton will drop now that it is under the opposition's ward?

Of course not. Aljunied has the best of both worlds. The PAP will fight to win back Aljunied over the next 5 years. New developments and plans (maybe even new MRT or LRT line) will be unveiled at the next GE to entice voters. A heavyweight Minister will need to stand in Aljunied to win it back. The WP on the other hand, will do everything within its means to ensure that Aljunied will not become a slum. So, what do you think is the result of all these?

To win back Aljunied, the PAP cannot hope that it becomes a slum after 5 years. It cannot depend on the WP doing worse as that is tantamount to leaving it to chance. It will have to come up with better programs for the estate at the next GE.

Property owners are advised to hold on to their properties as there are better things to come.:D

ShadowSG

09-05-11, 13:16

Any advice on whether the price for Minton will drop now that it is under the opposition's ward?

It's too early to say now and will depend hugely on how quickly WP can set up their base and put in place the processes and systems to manage the ward.

It will definitely be an uphill task for them as it will be setting up things basically from scratch.

proud owner

09-05-11, 13:20

Any advice on whether the price for Minton will drop now that it is under the opposition's ward?

are you already an owner ?
or looking to buy ?

does it matter if its under PAP or Opp ?

if it does matter to you .. then yu should buy Tajong Pagar ...

so are the condos in Tajong Pagar the most expensive >? since its been under PAP for the longest time >?

ay123

09-05-11, 13:31

Of course not. Aljunied has the best of both worlds. The PAP will fight to win back Aljunied over the next 5 years. New developments and plans (maybe even new MRT or LRT line) will be unveiled at the next GE to entice voters. A heavyweight Minister will need to stand in Aljunied to win it back. The WP on the other hand, will do everything within its means to ensure that Aljunied will not become a slum. So, what do you think is the result of all these?

To win back Aljunied, the PAP cannot hope that it becomes a slum after 5 years. It cannot depend on the WP doing worse as that is tantamount to leaving it to chance. It will have to come up with better programs for the estate at the next GE.

Property owners are advised to hold on to their properties as there are better things to come.:D

dilema leh, if aljunied grow better under WP. WP will be re-lected then how is PAP going to win back? pap rather it become slum and rebuild. tot george yeo already quite heavyweight, if not at least middleweight :D

fclim

09-05-11, 14:03

dilema leh, if aljunied grow better under WP. WP will be re-lected then how is PAP going to win back? pap rather it become slum and rebuild. tot george yeo already quite heavyweight, if not at least middleweight :D

Dilemna for PAP. Already scratching head to find a new foreign minister. At next GE, which minister to contest Aljunied? May lose that minister as well, thereby creating more problems, unless PM himself contest there. If put junior minister, then it's as good as telling Aljunied residents to "repent" for the next 20 years and showing everyone PAP has no fighting spirit. So, Aljunied must be won at the next GE at all costs. New creative and daring strategies must be thought out. It is too big an area to be allowed to become a slum. In any case, there are numerous private properties in the area and most of the HDBs have already been upgraded. So, that strategy may not work. It will take a some years before Aljunied becomes a slum. In the meantime, how many more ministers can they afford to lose?

The battle for Aljunied has already begun. The stakes have risen.

edwinleeap

09-05-11, 14:48

For all your info, based on the detailed electoral boundaries, Lorong Ah Soo divides the Marine Parade GRC and Aljunied GRC. Minton and the HDB blocks surrounding it just falls outside MPGRC, hence not much of a slump to be expected though. I agree PAP will likely fight hard to win back Aljunied as they are afraid of more GRCs following suit.

devilplate

09-05-11, 14:53

are you already an owner ?
or looking to buy ?

does it matter if its under PAP or Opp ?

if it does matter to you .. then yu should buy Tajong Pagar ...

so are the condos in Tajong Pagar the most expensive >? since its been under PAP for the longest time >?
Of coz.... Orchard is under lky n upcoming marina bay area too... Pinnacle aso under lky baby

Huat argh!!!!!!!

phantom_opera

09-05-11, 15:09

If PAP servants continue to show off their "luxurious" life in the public or internet .... God bless them.

I can understand why Tin Pei Ling is so "hated", I think she represents the "young and super rich" that dine in Marina, wear designer clothes and attend cooking lesson in France for the price of a car + million dollar as a peanut ....

MM said Singaporeans forget about our past, that applies to candidates within PAP as well ;)

This election is about Nicole Seah vs Tin Pei Ling lol

ysyap

09-05-11, 15:10

dilema leh, if aljunied grow better under WP. WP will be re-lected then how is PAP going to win back? pap rather it become slum and rebuild. tot george yeo already quite heavyweight, if not at least middleweight :DBased on the salary scale, George Yeo is definitely a heavy weight. Anyway, Aljunied, once lost to opp, will be difficult for PAP to win back. They will not dispatch ministers to contest it in next GE for fear of risking another office bearer. If they send a small fry, no way can fight unless WP screw up big time. The only option left is to promise something outrageous for Aljunied residents to entice them back into PAP fold. :spliff: I want to move to Aljunied le... Its definitely a win win whether its WP or PAP fighting it back... :p

09-05-11, 15:13

dilema leh, if aljunied grow better under WP. WP will be re-lected then how is PAP going to win back? pap rather it become slum and rebuild. tot george yeo already quite heavyweight, if not at least middleweight :D

PAP lost on strategy. Sun Tzi Art of War. What they need is not any heavy minister which is always busy but full time "servant" that walk the ground and listen to the resident voices. PAP lost not because of George but just too bad WP chose Aljunied. I believe if WP has chosen the other 2 GRCs
led by the two unpopular, same thing WP will win. Because people are hungry for alternate voices in parliament and this WP GRC is one of the best to offer. The only way to win back I think will be the dismantling of GRC at least for Aljunied. :doh:

azeoprop

09-05-11, 15:14

Here is the detail map:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/annex/2011map.pdf

looks like urban residence opposite the road is under marine parade.

proud owner

09-05-11, 15:20

Of coz.... Orchard is under lky n upcoming marina bay area too... Pinnacle aso under lky baby

Huat argh!!!!!!!

so LKY should be answerable also when Orchard flood ...

again he disappeared ...............

ysyap

09-05-11, 15:32

PAP lost on strategy. Sun Tzi Art of War. What they need is not any heavy minister which is always busy but full time "servant" that walk the ground and listen to the resident voices. PAP lost not because of George but just too bad WP chose Aljunied. I believe if WP has chosen the other 2 GRCs
led by the two unpopular, same thing WP will win. Because people are hungry for alternate voices in parliament and this WP GRC is one of the best to offer. The only way to win back I think will be the dismantling of GRC at least for Aljunied. :doh:WP A team chose Aljunied coz they are more confident there than any other GRC although yes they still stand a good chance in other GRCs. Aljunied contain some of the Hougang people that have been unwavering in their support of the opposition. Furthermore, Aljunied is just beside Hougang, WP's stronghold therefore they probably stood a much greater chance in Aljunied GRC than any other GRCs. If WP can deliver their promises in Aljunied, the next GE will probably be more interesting... MPGRC, beware, you are just beside Aljunied....:D

devilplate

09-05-11, 15:53

lets see WP can attract more power talents to form another B team to fight marine parade

i am more hopeful to see goodie policy amendments within the next 1yr
:D :D :D

PAP definitely tio 'slapped' this round and WOKE UP liao!
:D :D :D

vinlow

09-05-11, 16:44

PAP definitely tio 'slapped' this round and WOKE UP liao!
:D :D :D

One of the reason that people "slapped" PAP is because the property price is too high. Do you think the govt will issue a CM5? What could it be?

devilplate

09-05-11, 16:57

One of the reason that people "slapped" PAP is because the property price is too high. Do you think the govt will issue a CM5? What could it be?

my own version of CM5:

income ceiling raised to 10k for hdb bto, dbss/ec raised to 12k (not sure whether this is considered as CM anot....)

more restrictions for PRs to buy resale flats.....very unlikely to ban them from buying.....but mabe can restrict only PR earning less den 10k den can buy resale flats and must convert to citizen within 5yrs(coincides wif 5yr MOP) if not they will have to sell back to HDB at their ORIGINAL purchase px or market valuation whichever is lower.

like it anot, i guess LTV will be reduced further for multiple ppty owners

possible introduction of capital gain tax to replace 4yrs SSD(better den 4yrs SSD imo as it creates less grey areas)

:D :D :D :D

proud owner

09-05-11, 17:04

my own version of CM5:

income ceiling raised to 10k for hdb bto, dbss/ec raised to 12k (not sure whether this is considered as CM anot....)

more restrictions for PRs to buy resale flats.....very unlikely to ban them from buying.....but mabe can restrict only PR earning less den 10k den can buy resale flats and must convert to citizen within 5yrs(coincides wif 5yr MOP) if not they will have to sell back to HDB at their ORIGINAL purchase px or market valuation whichever is lower.

like it anot, i guess LTV will be reduced further for multiple ppty owners

possible introduction of capital gain tax to replace 4yrs SSD(better den 4yrs SSD imo as it creates less grey areas)

:D :D :D :D

i have a strange feeling that the next round of BTO will be CHEAP ....

becos
they hear me complaining ..
they hear me saying construction cost of HDB in woodlands and bkt merah are the same ..why sell so differently
they hear me calling them bad parents
they .....
they....

so to IMPRESS all ...to show that they are serious .... the will sell the new HDB CHEAP

devilplate

09-05-11, 17:10

i have a strange feeling that the next round of BTO will be CHEAP ....

becos
they hear me complaining ..
they hear me saying construction cost of HDB in woodlands and bkt merah are the same ..why sell so differently
they hear me calling them bad parents
they .....
they....

so to IMPRESS all ...to show that they are serious .... the will sell the new HDB CHEAP

i seriously dun tink so:tongue3:

the only way to prevent escalating bto px is to moderate resale flats px....

no way u gona have cheap cheap bto px and high high resale px at the same time

must moderate COV further to around 10-20k:2cents: :D

azeoprop

09-05-11, 17:16

proud owner

09-05-11, 17:22

i seriously dun tink so:tongue3:

the only way to prevent escalating bto px is to moderate resale flats px....

no way u gona have cheap cheap bto px and high high resale px at the same time

must moderate COV further to around 10-20k:2cents: :D

i actually think they will sell new BTO super outskirt cheap ...

that will naturally reduce demand for resale ...
buyers of resale naturally lower COV ...

ysyap

09-05-11, 17:23

i have a strange feeling that the next round of BTO will be CHEAP ....

becos
they hear me complaining ..
they hear me saying construction cost of HDB in woodlands and bkt merah are the same ..why sell so differently
they hear me calling them bad parents
they .....
they....

so to IMPRESS all ...to show that they are serious .... the will sell the new HDB CHEAPDidn't u hear his victory speech? He thanked Singaporeans (actually only 57.22% of Tampinese people) for giving him a clear mandate... meaning he thinks Singapore says his CMs have been well received so he'll not bring down prices but he'll intro more CMs to curb pte sector. :spliff2:

ysyap

09-05-11, 17:24

i seriously dun tink so:tongue3:

the only way to prevent escalating bto px is to moderate resale flats px....

no way u gona have cheap cheap bto px and high high resale px at the same time

must moderate COV further to around 10-20k:2cents: :DCOV already lowered to 21k. It probably will still drop and definitely so if CM5 is introduced. However, the climb in ppty prices more than compensate the COV drop so :banghead: . No practical use!!!

kengyong

09-05-11, 17:33

One of the reason that people "slapped" PAP is because the property price is too high. Do you think the govt will issue a CM5? What could it be?

I always thought the CMs are designed by lazy planners to be like this... At least from CM3 onwards..

CM3 - 3 years SSD, 30% down payment, SSD max at 3%
CM4 - 4 years SSD, 40% down payment, SSD in multiples of 4s (4%, 8%, 12%, 16%)
Hence CM5 would be - 5 years SSD, 50% down payment, SSD in multiples of 5s (5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%). No? :scared-4:

devilplate

09-05-11, 17:34

COV already lowered to 21k. It probably will still drop and definitely so if CM5 is introduced. However, the climb in ppty prices more than compensate the COV drop so :banghead: . No practical use!!!

next GE is 5yrs later.....by tat time, global crisis will caused all ppty in SG to flop.....

so its really dun make sense at all to 'crash' ppty px by introducing more CMs now.....it will only upset existing homeowners:2cents:

just moderate the px increase for resale flats will do for the time being....

teddybear

09-05-11, 17:36

After that, see PAP lose Joo Chiat, East Coast GRC with predominant private estates? :banghead:
All the talk about properties in GE are on new launch HDB prices. Heartlanders in Aljunied GRC send GY out. 1 resident say feel very sad for his son couldn't get HDB flat. Heard many such stories. They better spend more effort to fix HDB prices. :o

Didn't u hear his victory speech? He thanked Singaporeans (actually only 57.22% of Tampinese people) for giving him a clear mandate... meaning he thinks Singapore says his CMs have been well received so he'll not bring down prices but he'll intro more CMs to curb pte sector. :spliff2:

devilplate

09-05-11, 17:42

I always thought the CMs are designed by lazy planners to be like this... At least from CM3 onwards..

CM3 - 3 years SSD, 30% down payment, SSD max at 3%
CM4 - 4 years SSD, 40% down payment, SSD in multiples of 4s (4%, 8%, 12%, 16%)
Hence CM5 would be - 5 years SSD, 50% down payment, SSD in multiples of 5s (5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%). No? :scared-4:

if 5yrs SSD happen....i DUNO WAT TO SAY! STOMP FEET:doh:

gona lose my vote as well in next GE:doh:

phantom_opera

09-05-11, 17:54

ysyap

09-05-11, 18:03

:D
After that, see PAP lose Joo Chiat, East Coast GRC with predominant private estates? :banghead:
All the talk about properties in GE are on new launch HDB prices. Heartlanders in Aljunied GRC send GY out. 1 resident say feel very sad for his son couldn't get HDB flat. Heard many such stories. They better spend more effort to fix HDB prices. :oEven CM4 cannot dislodge Tampines stronghold so maybe CM7 can do the trick? Now only CM4, 3 more to go... :doh:

ysyap

09-05-11, 18:06

I don't think PAP dares to do something drastic to the HDB market. Looks like they are going to increase income ceiling to 10k soon but this will not solve the root cause, as the income of fresh graduates only up by 10-15% since 2000 but flat prices has gone up more in line with inflation.They review income ceiling not because of affordability. Rather it is to silence critics and to help middle income people buy HDB coz of over-affordability. 2 different issues...

azeoprop

09-05-11, 20:32

Welcome to the Minton...One home Two Worlds. Exclusive condo with WP and PAP serving you both at the same time. :rolleyes:

kingkong1984

09-05-11, 20:56

i actually think they will sell new BTO super outskirt cheap ...

that will naturally reduce demand for resale ...
buyers of resale naturally lower COV ...
Easy, go to ulu locations and give bare minimum.

Further up Jurong is a good choice, pioneer for the west.

Further up woodlands is good, Sembawang area for the north.

Further up pasir ris is good, passer ris farmway area in the east.

Further up in the south, safra mount faber area?

Oh make them smaller for cheaper, better and faster.
;)

azeoprop

09-05-11, 23:10

Easy, go to ulu locations and give bare minimum.

Further up Jurong is a good choice, pioneer for the west.

Further up woodlands is good, Sembawang area for the north.

Further up pasir ris is good, passer ris farmway area in the east.

Further up in the south, safra mount faber area?

Oh make them smaller for cheaper, better and faster.
;)

I think they might do the ulu and MM way. They might make new 4 room flat 81sqm(871sqft) and new 5 room flat 98sqm(1054sqft) as standard size. Such sizes were seen in the great wall of toa payoh and the dawson skyville and skyterrace. The current standard size for 4room is 90sqm and 5room is 110sqm.

This will bring down total quantum but psf remain the same, so those who bought bto before the measure will not complain too much that they were cheated.
:beats-me-man:

fclim

10-05-11, 09:40

Passed by PAP's PCF along Lor Ah Soo, last Sun. Saw all the PAP flags outside in limbo and very quiet. Feel so sorry for them.

Will PAP withdraw all the PCF kindergartens from Aljunied GRC?

azeoprop

10-05-11, 09:44

Passed by PAP's PCF along Lor Ah Soo, last Sun. Saw all the PAP flags outside in limbo and very quiet. Feel so sorry for them.

Will PAP withdraw all the PCF kindergartens from Aljunied GRC?

Well, depends on the result of their "soul searching" loh. See if they will take the "soft" approach or the "you will repent" approach. :p

devilplate

10-05-11, 09:48

Well, depends on the result of their "soul searching" loh. See if they will take the "soft" approach or the "you will repent" approach. :p

definitely 'u will repent' approach

if go on soft, PAP will nvr get back aljunied

fclim

10-05-11, 09:50

But, PM said "it is time to heal and move forward -- not just for the parties, but for all Singaporeans....We are all fellow Singaporeans, so at the end of the General Election, let us close ranks to secure our future together,".

If PAP deliberately ignore Aljunied, close all their PCF kindergartens and let it rot into a slum, isn't that dividing Singaporeans instead of closing ranks?

devilplate

10-05-11, 09:58

fclim

10-05-11, 10:02

extremme

10-05-11, 10:04

yes, if they still take the "repent" approach, they will prob lost more votes

if they remove the PCFS from aljunied, just shows their apology is not sincere...abd 5 years later in GE 2016, jialat liao

they need an image consultant!

devilplate

10-05-11, 10:06

if go on soft, will PAP take back aljunied? if yes, why?

devilplate

10-05-11, 10:08

Actually, it is only 60% Singaporeans. Don't forget 40% did not vote for PAP.

For Aljunied, they should change tack and go on soft approach to show that they have really changed. Win the hearts of the people by being humble and sincere. Work the ground hard for the next 5 years.

u got it....40% not happy wif PAP.....how many % r those in aljunied? probably 2-3%?

so their target is to please the 40%-(2-3% from aljunied) :D

fclim

10-05-11, 10:52

u got it....40% not happy wif PAP.....how many % r those in aljunied? probably 2-3%?

so their target is to please the 40%-(2-3% from aljunied) :D

Actually, they are in a difficult position. Hard approach in Aljunied, 40% may become 60% because people (not only Aljunied residents) will say, See, Like Father, Like Son. Talk only. Soft approach, will lend a helping hand to WP.

In the end, might take the middle ground. Leave things as they are, and work the ground quietly. Nation wide, make better policies and change their image.

devilplate

10-05-11, 10:56

Actually, they are in a difficult position. Hard approach in Aljunied, 40% may become 60% because people (not only Aljunied residents) will say, See, Like Father, Like Son. Talk only. Soft approach, will lend a helping hand to WP.

In the end, might take the middle ground. Leave things as they are, and work the ground quietly. Nation wide, make better policies and change their image.

repent can take many form....as u said, leave things stagnant for aljunied. WP will just maintain it....dun expect to have special treatment tats all....

whereas, they can place more carrots for other 'weak' grcs like bishan/east coast or even marine parade to improve their score for the next election

ysyap

10-05-11, 10:57

u got it....40% not happy wif PAP.....how many % r those in aljunied? probably 2-3%?

so their target is to please the 40%-(2-3% from aljunied) :DEven with 60% who voted for PAP, they're still those who were not happy but coz of fear and security, etc, they voted for PAP so the % who are not happy with PAP is probably bigger than 40%. :spliff:

ysyap

10-05-11, 10:59

devilplate

10-05-11, 11:04

Even with 60% who voted for PAP, they're still those who were not happy but coz of fear and security, etc, they voted for PAP so the % who are not happy with PAP is probably bigger than 40%. :spliff:

i aso not happy wif PAP....

PR allowed to buy HDB and 999/FH landed

jobs for faked talents but NS for singaporeans

free sponsorship on the expense of taxpayers

anyway, policies will be tweaked and expect very very slow growth for the coming years:2cents:

devilplate

10-05-11, 11:05

Engage Nicole S, she's in this sort of business anyway...:D

she belong to the thick+black category:D

but i like it:ashamed1: :D

ysyap

10-05-11, 11:19

she belong to the thick+black category:D

but i like it:ashamed1: :DNot really thick, more black... she cried in the arms of her mother so didn't really conceal well. :D She's probably won more votes through her persuasive prowess and marketing abilities as well as her vulnerability when she wept (more than once in public)... :spliff:

fclim

10-05-11, 11:28

repent can take many form....as u said, leave things stagnant for aljunied. WP will just maintain it....dun expect to have special treatment tats all....

whereas, they can place more carrots for other 'weak' grcs like bishan/east coast or even marine parade to improve their score for the next election

Repent only one way leh. That is, removing existing privileges. Otherwise, how to make residents repent.:D

Different generation requires different approach.

devilplate

10-05-11, 11:28

Not really thick, more black... she cried in the arms of her mother so didn't really conceal well. :D She's probably won more votes through her persuasive prowess and marketing abilities as well as her vulnerability when she wept (more than once in public)... :spliff:

Li picked Liu Bei (http://forums.condosingapore.com/wiki/Liu_Bei) (king of one rival kingdom competing with Cao's) as the highly-skilled person with a "thick face". He never thought it shameful to live inside another's fence. He was also a frequent crier, appealing to others' sympathy. There is even a humorous saying, "Liu Bei's JiangShan (kingdom) was obtained through his crying."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thick_Black_Theory

u make me go cut and paste for u:p

devilplate

10-05-11, 11:30

Repent only one way leh. That is, removing existing privileges. Otherwise, how to make residents repent.:D

Different generation requires different approach.

go on soft will not win back aljunied too

lets see Wp's performance from now onwards:D

fclim

10-05-11, 11:34

devilplate

10-05-11, 11:38

You know, KBW also cried. But, he cried because people sent good wishes to him during his bypass. NS cried because she felt sorry for the poor citizens. One cried for himself whilst the other cried for the people. That is the difference.

to me, all actresses and actors:tongue3:

ysyap

10-05-11, 11:39

He was also a frequent crier, appealing to others' sympathy. There is even a humorous saying, "Liu Bei's JiangShan (kingdom) was obtained through his crying."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thick_Black_Theory

u make me go cut and paste for u:pThank you for cutting and pasting. Hmm... u mean her tears all fake? OK... :D. What about LBH's?

devilplate

10-05-11, 11:46

Thank you for cutting and pasting. Hmm... u mean her tears all fake? OK... :D. What about LBH's?

to me, all actors and actresses:p

do u realise y some of us can actually cry while watching a sob drama series even though we know they r acting?:rolleyes:

fclim

10-05-11, 11:47

to me, all actresses and actors:tongue3:

We all are. The World's a Stage.:) http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSW7nQn718QFyeQHvIyAaiBYezZJt3j3_nN0gy0oQLYNBuxKhJtmg Even smiley can cry...:beats-me-man:

ysyap

10-05-11, 11:57

to me, all actors and actresses:p

do u realise y some of us can actually cry while watching a sob drama series even though we know they r acting?:rolleyes:Just good or bad acting???

I know for a fact that some people can cry coz its acting but I certain cannot cry when my tears are not genuine... just can't squeeze it out... hahaha!!! Guess I am a lousy actor.. :o

devilplate

10-05-11, 11:59

Just good or bad acting???

I know for a fact that some people can cry coz its acting but I certain cannot cry when my tears are not genuine... just can't squeeze it out... hahaha!!! Guess I am a lousy actor.. :o

many such talents r born with such gifts.....

some kids oredi noe how to use their secret weapon to their advantage:D

bargain hunter

10-05-11, 11:59

maybe they will just withdraw all the FairPrice super markets. but that is no longer an issue. sheng siong will gladly move in. :)

devilplate

10-05-11, 12:01

maybe they will just withdraw all the FairPrice super markets. but that is no longer an issue. sheng siong will gladly move in. :)

i totally dun like to shop at sheng siong.....just me:D

quite like to shop at Finest nowadays.....some products still same price tag but their service level r 2 notch up:D :cheers6:

ysyap

10-05-11, 12:02

maybe they will just withdraw all the FairPrice super markets. but that is no longer an issue. sheng siong will gladly move in. :)By doing that, PAP don't need opp to slap them. They are slapping themselves le... :doh:. Anyway, I thought that NTUC prices of many products are at least 20% above what you can get in most other places.... :scared-4:. Did some comparisons some time back... if you want cheap, go to Hong Mao or something.... HEE! Free advert for them. :D

devilplate

10-05-11, 12:12

By doing that, PAP don't need opp to slap them. They are slapping themselves le... :doh:. Anyway, I thought that NTUC prices of many products are at least 20% above what you can get in most other places.... :scared-4:. Did some comparisons some time back... if you want cheap, go to Hong Mao or something.... HEE! Free advert for them. :D

certain stuff like facial cream, shampoo r much cheaper elsewhr...

NTUC sells u the 'convenience' lor.....everything is well organised.....

only cold storage on par lor but at heftier px tag....even giant somehow not as conducive to shop in....

wesing

10-05-11, 13:05

i totally dun like to shop at sheng siong.....just me:D

quite like to shop at Finest nowadays.....some products still same price tag but their service level r 2 notch up:D :cheers6:

Agreed. Can pay by credit cards and got home delivery above certain amount. Prices not much different from normal Fairprice.

wesing

10-05-11, 13:07

fclim

10-05-11, 15:08

maybe they will just withdraw all the FairPrice super markets. but that is no longer an issue. sheng siong will gladly move in. :)

Didn't you hear the rumour. Sheng Siong's boss daughter is dating LHL's son?

focus

10-05-11, 16:25

Didn't you hear the rumour. Sheng Siong's boss daughter is dating LHL's son?

Dating only. No marriage. You must be aware pedigree is very important in mating hor!

ysyap

10-05-11, 17:05

You wan cheap, go JB lah:DNo need lah... My parents' house nearby can le... :o

azeoprop

12-05-11, 22:20

Yikes, new stack release this weekend and price increase! :scared-3:

http://www.the-minton.net/

fclim

13-05-11, 08:15

Any idea by how much? 5%?

ysyap

13-05-11, 08:24

Developers are confident of the market after election? Or they are just testing water...

fclim

13-05-11, 12:36

I think after Terrasse launched at 900psf, they also want to up. In terms of location, minton is better.

ysyap

13-05-11, 12:43

I think after Terrasse launched at 900psf, they also want to up. In terms of location, minton is better.Agreed... Anytime Minton... :)

devilplate

13-05-11, 12:53

Agreed... Anytime Minton... :)
I actually prefer terasse if i were to buy now if both same psf....bcoz i look at quantum....minton got baywindow n planters

If same quantum, go for minton definitely:D

fclim

13-05-11, 14:24

But Terrasse low plot ratio and only 5 storeys high leh. No city view. Wonder why plot ratio so low. Minton is nearer to paya lebar airport than this but has a plot ratio of 2.8 vs 1.4.

edwinleeap

13-05-11, 20:32

Hopefully paya lebar airport will be relocated and plot ratios in paya lebar will be raised! Minton's spacing between blocks are really good at about 50m plus minus.

DC33_2008

13-05-11, 21:25

For security reason, they will no relocate the paya lebar airport. Where can it go to?
Hopefully paya lebar airport will be relocated and plot ratios in paya lebar will be raised! Minton's spacing between blocks are really good at about 50m plus minus.

fclim

13-05-11, 22:17

For security reason, they will no relocate the paya lebar airport. Where can it go to?
Lor Halus? Used to be dumping ground. Hmm.. Must ask LTK to raise this in Parliament. :D

azeoprop

14-05-11, 00:48

Paya Lebar Airport under control of WP now? :rolleyes:

DC33_2008

14-05-11, 08:38

Our airbases have to be widely spread out and emergency runways are also found in different parts of Singapore.

fclim

14-05-11, 10:54

Paya Lebar Airport under control of WP now? :rolleyes:

No lah.. It's government gazetted area.:)

fclim

15-05-11, 14:07

New launch prices up by about 5%.

azeoprop

15-05-11, 14:49

:scared-3: Waaa....so much increase!

kane

15-05-11, 15:37

:scared-3: Waaa....so much increase!

it was res-qued by many other neighbouring developments.

kingkong1984

15-05-11, 16:16

New launch prices up by about 5%.

So little? Clearly a bad sign. Yet units not moving. The roller coaster has just reached the top. When is it going down?.

ysyap

15-05-11, 21:45

Now the market has reached a saturation point when nobody wants to do anything... buyers are waiting for prices to fall while our cute developers are hoping that prices will continue to climb. At this point, I don't think many developers will be having new launches to crowd out the market. All waiting for govt to reveal their next cause of action in the property market. Just a matter of who can hold longer... :D

DC33_2008

15-05-11, 21:47

The real test will come when the interest starts to increase.
Now the market has reached a saturation point when nobody wants to do anything... buyers are waiting for prices to fall while our cute developers are hoping that prices will continue to climb. At this point, I don't think many developers will be having new launches to crowd out the market. All waiting for govt to reveal their next cause of action in the property market. Just a matter of who can hold longer... :D

ysyap

15-05-11, 21:50

The real test will come when the interest starts to increase.Agreed but that will not be immediate. Just look at the US economy... no where near recovery... :)

DC33_2008

15-05-11, 21:54

That is why so many people in Singapore are leveraging on this. Pray hard for it to stay like this for a long while.
Agreed but that will not be immediate. Just look at the US economy... no where near recovery... :)

ysyap

15-05-11, 22:15

That is why so many people in Singapore are leveraging on this. Pray hard for it to stay like this for a long while.My take is this... Obama will definitely want to have positive figures to show in US economy for his re-election next year so he'll work hard. The unexpected plus in his term is the successful assasination of Osama which he can comfortably fall on to win the next election so that means his tension to produce result in the frail US economy can take a temporary back seat. This would naturally translate to a continued low bank interest rate... :D Huat ah...

kingkong1984

15-05-11, 23:30

Can't say much but it will go up by next year.

ysyap

16-05-11, 07:55

Can't say much but it will go up by next year.All signs are definitely pointing in that direction, so we can still enjoy low interest for the next 9 to 12 months. :D Over-commit at your own risk!!!

azeoprop

23-05-11, 18:59

Update 23rd may 2011. :)

fclim

24-05-11, 09:25

ysyap

24-05-11, 09:30

Thanks Azeoprop. Amazing progress. I saw more than the usual crowd at Minton showflat last weekend. Guess people are comparing this project with Terrasse. Terrasse is like going close to $1k psf. This one is only around $900psf now.I won't compare between these two coz one is totally inaccessible while the other still stand a slim chance of accessibility. :D Both are mass market condos so should be very vibrant but I still prefer accessibility above other attractions.

fclim

24-05-11, 09:39

The next jump will be when the Bartley Road project is launched. Being next to MRT, it will be above $1k psf unless CM5 comes along. Then Minton will increase price again.

azeoprop

24-05-11, 10:35

Looks like the 1 bedder blocks will be the last to be built. :rolleyes:

fclim

24-05-11, 10:49

Logically so. Build outwards, to facilitate access for heavy machinery.

ysyap

24-05-11, 10:51

The next jump will be when the Bartley Road project is launched. Being next to MRT, it will be above $1k psf unless CM5 comes along. Then Minton will increase price again.With or without CM5, Bartley road project will be near to $1200psf. At $1k psf, developer barely breakeven... :doh:

fclim

24-05-11, 11:06

ysyap

24-05-11, 11:15

Then Minton at $900psf considered cheap liao. Bartley road site likely for family own-stay types. There may be more 3 and 4 bedders, since these are apparently in demand now as investors shy away from the market.The fact that Bartley road site sits comfortably above the MRT means there can be a significant number of investors coming in too... Minton on the other hand suits the family nucleus more... investors may shy away coz of 4 yr SSD but still there are those who have significant holding power... just not sure how things will pen out in the coming months... hmmm....

fclim

24-05-11, 12:19

ysyap

24-05-11, 13:04

I think the government may leave the private property market relatively untouched this year. Tackle the HDB market first to satisfy the majority. There could be more grants and carrots for first time buyers.Agreed agreed agreed!!! More grants and subsidies coming our way for 1st time buyers...:D

5577

30-05-11, 11:14

devilplate

30-05-11, 11:27

I was at the showroom last weekend. Although the location is not fantastic (no mrt within 5 - 10 min walk) but I must say the finishing & fittings of this development are more than decent compared to another development that was launch in the last 2 weeks.

The 4 bedder showflat was to-die for!!!! :D There is a space for everyone and everything at 1755sqft! But I can only drool for the time being as the quantum is really high at nearly 1.6mil for a 14th floor unit!!! And if anyone thinks that not many will pay such price for this space, you are in for a big surprise. There are only 4 such units left!!!!!!!:eek: :eek:

Azeoprop - Congrats on the good buy. No need to suffer from any seller's remorse for 8@w!!!!!

u got the sequence wrong....

azeo bot 8wood, den bot mezzo den bot minton.....den sell 8wood and buy WF Isle

5577

30-05-11, 11:43

u got the sequence wrong....

azeo bot 8wood, den bot mezzo den bot minton.....den sell 8wood and buy WF Isle

ahahahaha.... devilplate, I dun have very good memory lah...

fclim

30-05-11, 11:44

I was at the showroom last weekend. Although the location is not fantastic (no mrt within 5 - 10 min walk) but I must say the finishing & fittings of this development are more than decent compared to another development that was launch in the last 2 weeks.

The 4 bedder showflat was to-die for!!!! :D There is a space for everyone and everything at 1755sqft! But I can only drool for the time being as the quantum is really high at nearly 1.6mil for a 14th floor unit!!! And if anyone thinks that not many will pay such price for this space, you are in for a big surprise. There are only 4 such units left!!!!!!!:eek: :eek:

Azeoprop - Congrats on the good buy. No need to suffer from any seller's remorse for 8@w!!!!!

Most of the 4 bedder buyers probably bought for own stay. So, they are willing to pay for that extra space luxury. Nowadays, most 4 bedders have also shrunked in size. A 1,300 sq ft unit used to be 3-bedder, but is now configured to sell as 4-bedder (maybe because no bay windows) to make it more affordable.

1755 sq ft sized units will be quite rare going forward and only penthouses and ground floor units may have such sizes.

devilplate

30-05-11, 11:47

Most of the 4 bedder buyers probably bought for own stay. So, they are willing to pay for that extra space luxury. Nowadays, most 4 bedders have also shrunked in size. A 1,300 sq ft unit used to be 3-bedder, but is now configured to sell as 4-bedder (maybe because no bay windows) to make it more affordable.

1755 sq ft sized units will be quite rare going forward and only penthouses and ground floor units may have such sizes.

yes!

been seeing so many smallish projects till vy vy sian:doh:

den i revisit interlace.....the space is so luxurious:D

5577

30-05-11, 11:48

Most of the 4 bedder buyers probably bought for own stay. So, they are willing to pay for that extra space luxury. Nowadays, most 4 bedders have also shrunked in size. A 1,300 sq ft unit used to be 3-bedder, but is now configured to sell as 4-bedder (maybe because no bay windows) to make it more affordable.

1755 sq ft sized units will be quite rare going forward and only penthouses and ground floor units may have such sizes.

Yap... space is becoming a luxury in Singapore and I suppose the premium will be higher next time to get something like this......

5577

30-05-11, 11:49

yes!

been seeing so many smallish projects till vy vy sian:doh:

den i revisit interlace.....the space is so luxurious:D

But I find the design of the development very hard to accept leh......

devilplate

30-05-11, 11:51

But I find the design of the development very hard to accept leh......

ya...and choosing a unit there can b very tricky too

but i am sure it will turn out to be vy nice....those units facing depot road can be very nice:D

to those who into fengshui, surely dun like it.....

to those who bot foresta.....y pay 1.4mil for a smallish 721sqft 2bedder at 20xxpsf....top up alittle can get 15xxsqft huge 3bedder at interlace:D

5577

30-05-11, 11:54

ya...and choosing a unit there can b very tricky too

but i am sure it will turn out to be vy nice....those units facing depot road can be very nice:D

to those who into fengshui, surely dun like it.....

Ahahaha...yes... lots of poison arrows going through evey unit....

fclim

30-05-11, 12:10

Maybe the architect got his inspiration from the stacks of shipping containers in nearby PSA.

ysyap

30-05-11, 13:19

Most of the 4 bedder buyers probably bought for own stay. So, they are willing to pay for that extra space luxury. Nowadays, most 4 bedders have also shrunked in size. A 1,300 sq ft unit used to be 3-bedder, but is now configured to sell as 4-bedder (maybe because no bay windows) to make it more affordable.

1755 sq ft sized units will be quite rare going forward and only penthouses and ground floor units may have such sizes.Honestly I prefer the penthouses. Really spacious. There are many different penthouse designs. Spoilt for choice! :spliff: Just that the price is on the high side! Could get a nearby FH landed at those prices. :D

ysyap

30-05-11, 13:22

Yap... space is becoming a luxury in Singapore and I suppose the premium will be higher next time to get something like this......In the past, space used to be preferred so you have huge kitchens and living rooms in the 80s and 90s. Something happened and small was preferred. Even till now, the current trend is MM. However, we see a potential saturation of MM units in the market soon so space is gradually getting popular again! Not sure if that is what the developers think coz they probably prefer MM. Better earnings coz higher psf... :spliff:

devilplate

30-05-11, 13:26

In the past, space used to be preferred so you have huge kitchens and living rooms in the 80s and 90s. Something happened and small was preferred. Even till now, the current trend is MM. However, we see a potential saturation of MM units in the market soon so space is gradually getting popular again! Not sure if that is what the developers think coz they probably prefer MM. Better earnings coz higher psf... :spliff:
Prices crashed by 30% n u will see buyers chiong bigger units again:p

5577

30-05-11, 13:32

In the past, space used to be preferred so you have huge kitchens and living rooms in the 80s and 90s. Something happened and small was preferred. Even till now, the current trend is MM. However, we see a potential saturation of MM units in the market soon so space is gradually getting popular again! Not sure if that is what the developers think coz they probably prefer MM. Better earnings coz higher psf... :spliff:

If cost/price is not a factor, I can't see any reason why people won't take up something that will give them more space. It's mind boggling why some will want to coop themselves up in a small cage.....:scared-3:

5577

30-05-11, 13:34

Prices crashed by 30% n u will see buyers chiong bigger units again:p

Errr.... is there such possibility in the near future???? I don't see how leh.... If it happens, I will glad off load my 8@w now and wait for that to happen!!!! :D

ysyap

30-05-11, 13:37

Errr.... is there such possibility in the near future???? I don't see how leh.... If it happens, I will glad off load my 8@w now and wait for that to happen!!!! :D30% drop? Unlikely lah... govt intervention usually cannot achieve that sort of drop and govt will never want to do that... like slapping their own face... usually its international events or health crisis, etc that will do that. Will it happen? Unlikely!

devilplate

30-05-11, 13:38

30% drop? Unlikely lah... govt intervention usually cannot achieve that sort of drop and govt will never want to do that... like slapping their own face... usually its international events or health crisis, etc that will do that. Will it happen? Unlikely!
If u tink its unlikely, den mm trend shall continue....

ysyap

30-05-11, 13:40

If cost/price is not a factor, I can't see any reason why people won't take up something that will give them more space. It's mind boggling why some will want to coop themselves up in a small cage.....:scared-3:While there is a medical term for fear of small space - claustrophobic, is there one for fear of big space?? Don't think there is a reason why people don't like big space!

devilplate

30-05-11, 13:42

While there is a medical term for fear of small space - claustrophobic, is there one for fear of big space?? Don't think there is a reason why people don't like space!
Too big i m scared.....seen too much horror movies hapening in big houses....lol

One pax staying in a big bungalow....ifnu heard smthing...will u get scared?

5577

30-05-11, 13:47

Too big i m scared.....seen too much horror movies hapening in big houses....lol

One pax staying in a big bungalow....ifnu heard smthing...will u get scared?

devilplate,

Just make sure your house is well lit at all times and stop watching those horror movies to :scared-1: yourself! Afterall, the mind cannot differentiate the difference between real and fake for these sort of things!!!!

I want big space!!!!!!:D

ysyap

30-05-11, 13:48

Too big i m scared.....seen too much horror movies hapening in big houses....lol

One pax staying in a big bungalow....ifnu heard smthing...will u get scared?hahaha!!! That fear is attributed to someone or something causing that it. Not coz the house is big... it can even happen in a small house if you know something is lurking by the corner where you can't see it. Of course large houses have more corners that you can't see what's hidden behind... lol! I still want a big bungalow... at most rent it out a super high rent then retire... :p

fclim

30-05-11, 14:31

Honestly I prefer the penthouses. Really spacious. There are many different penthouse designs. Spoilt for choice! :spliff: Just that the price is on the high side! Could get a nearby FH landed at those prices. :D

Smallest penthouse in Minton 1,991 sqft. About $1.7M.

FH landed of around $1,900 sqft land in D19 is close to $2M and you probably got to fork out another $200K to do some decent renovation.

You can get some FH landed with same built up area of $1,900 sq ft, but the land is so tiny that you probably have to park your car on the road outside.

Some people prefer to live in the biggest and most luxurious apartment in the project than the smallest terrace house in the area.

ysyap

30-05-11, 14:51

Smallest penthouse in Minton 1,991 sqft. About $1.7M.

FH landed of around $1,900 sqft land in D19 is close to $2M and you probably got to fork out another $200K to do some decent renovation.

You can get some FH landed with same built up area of $1,900 sq ft, but the land is so tiny that you probably have to park your car on the road outside.

Some people prefer to live in the biggest and most luxurious apartment in the project than the smallest terrace house in the area.The 1991 sqft penthouse design is not really optimal. Anyway, can get a 1780 sqft land area 2400 built up landed area nearby for about $1.8m. Yes to the extra cost of renovation but its your own land so no need to wory about what others do and can have absolute control over what you want to do with the area! Yes there are great responsibilities involved but to those who enjoys gardening, its a nice getaway at times... :p Having said that, I do prefer condo to landed coz i belong to the slightly less responsible (aka lazier) group. :spliff:

chrisop

30-05-11, 20:26

The 1991 sqft penthouse design is not really optimal. Anyway, can get a 1780 sqft land area 2400 built up landed area nearby for about $1.8m. Yes to the extra cost of renovation but its your own land so no need to wory about what others do and can have absolute control over what you want to do with the area! Yes there are great responsibilities involved but to those who enjoys gardening, its a nice getaway at times... :p Having said that, I do prefer condo to landed coz i belong to the slightly less responsible (aka lazier) group. :spliff:

The design of the penthouses in Minton is pretty optimal and one of the best I've seen, compared to other condos. Usually you have double-storey penthouses with almost the whole 2nd level wasted since it's usually a super big roof terrace. :banghead:

Lovelle

30-05-11, 20:35

can't rent out much

5577

30-05-11, 20:52

can't rent out much

Minton is more for own stay lah.

Oh! Before I forgot, I was told by the agent that the maintenance fee per month is below $300 for 4 bedroom. That was surprising!

kane

30-05-11, 21:43

Minton is more for own stay lah.

Oh! Before I forgot, I was told by the agent that the maintenance fee per month is below $300 for 4 bedroom. That was surprising!

cos the maintenance is shared by 1100 other households. if they get short of funds, they'll tell you when the developer hands over the management to the resident committee.

having said all that, i like the space the 4 bedder confers...

ysyap

30-05-11, 22:03

cos the maintenance is shared by 1100 other households. if they get short of funds, they'll tell you when the developer hands over the management to the resident committee.

having said all that, i like the space the 4 bedder confers...I don't like the master bedroom for the 4 bedder. I actually prefer the 5 bedder in Kovan Residence. Unfortunately the price difference is really huge!!! :D

devilplate

30-05-11, 22:08

I don't like the master bedroom for the 4 bedder. I actually prefer the 5 bedder in Kovan Residence. Unfortunately the price difference is really huge!!! :D
Get a fh landed better

azeoprop

31-05-11, 01:19

Get a fh landed better

FH landed only got 1 world. Minton got 3 worlds. :p

5577

31-05-11, 09:42

FH landed only got 1 world. Minton got 3 worlds. :p

Azeo,

You must remember to invite your brothers and sister from 8@w to Minton when you move in! :D

Of cos, you are welcome to join us when 8@w TOP next year!:D :D

5577

31-05-11, 09:46

cos the maintenance is shared by 1100 other households. if they get short of funds, they'll tell you when the developer hands over the management to the resident committee.

having said all that, i like the space the 4 bedder confers...

True, true.... I was wondering how they are going to upkeep all 3 worlds base on these maintenance rates and the 2 year free shuttle they promise to all buyers actually.....

Me love love love the 1755sft 4 bedder to death!!!!!!!:D :D Got enough rooms and toilets for all in the house plus a yard for the pets and laundry!!!!! Too bad, location and moolah are the problems!

fclim

31-05-11, 10:56

What is Moolah? Location is not ideal, but it is not that bad either. Just have to do a bus/MRT combi. If it is next to MRT, then must pay above $1K oredi. Tradeoff as our govt will say.

5577

31-05-11, 11:14

What is Moolah? Location is not ideal, but it is not that bad either. Just have to do a bus/MRT combi. If it is next to MRT, then must pay above $1K oredi. Tradeoff as our govt will say.

Moolah is $$$$$$$$$$$..... my friend! :D :D :D

devilplate

31-05-11, 11:16

Moolah is $$$$$$$$$$$..... my friend! :D :D :D

i tink 3bedder at waterview aso got a balocny at the kitchen....smaller quantum

5577

31-05-11, 11:35

i tink 3bedder at waterview aso got a balocny at the kitchen....smaller quantum

For me, the main attractions for 4 bedder at Minton are having a junior master and the long yard. If only 3 bedder comes with a junior master!!!!!!!:D

But I believe, long long long time ago, old old old condos may have ensuite bedrooms for all right? I remember going to one old condo when I was very much younger, at Bright Hill drive with 3 or 4 bedrooms with ensuite bathrooms. Anyone can confirm this?

fclim

31-05-11, 11:35

Ah... Me noob. Thanks. :)

devilplate

31-05-11, 11:44

For me, the main attractions for 4 bedder at Minton are having a junior master and the long yard. If only 3 bedder comes with a junior master!!!!!!!:D

But I believe, long long long time ago, old old old condos may have ensuite bedrooms for all right? I remember going to one old condo when I was very much younger, at Bright Hill drive with 3 or 4 bedrooms with ensuite bathrooms. Anyone can confirm this?

u save $$ for ur dream landed better

hf a nice garden for all ur furry kids and usually all rooms comes wif bathrm:D

DC33_2008

31-05-11, 12:28

I wonder if there is a need to have a bathroom for each room? Especially if bathrooms are small ones.
u save $$ for ur dream landed better

hf a nice garden for all ur furry kids and usually all rooms comes wif bathrm:D

5577

31-05-11, 12:52

I wonder if there is a need to have a bathroom for each room? Especially if bathrooms are small ones.

Ensuite bathroom is always good when you have extended family living together.... Elderly parents, siblings, children, etc.... no need to fight for washroom, got personal space for everyone, no argument on cleaning :p

5577

31-05-11, 12:54

u save $$ for ur dream landed better

hf a nice garden for all ur furry kids and usually all rooms comes wif bathrm:D

ahahaha... yes, very true... but like all things, must do step by step...., must be able to afford these condo first then think how to upgrade to nice landed later...

azeoprop

31-05-11, 13:21

My favorite bathroom so far is that 4 bedroom corner bathroom of Clover by the park....imagine having a pampering bubble bath while enjoying the sunset view panorama... :p

ysyap

31-05-11, 13:26

Clover's master bathroom is superb... I don't fancy every room with ensuite... not suitable for my young kids.. wait fall over the toilet bowl in middle of the night and no one knows... :D

devilplate

31-05-11, 13:28

Clover's master bathroom is superb... I don't fancy every room with ensuite... not suitable for my young kids.. wait fall over and no one knows... :D
2 ensuites is gd enuff for multi gen living:D

But i rem minton jr master rm vy small rite...cant put a queen

azeoprop

31-05-11, 13:37

2 ensuites is gd enuff for multi gen living:D

But i rem minton jr master rm vy small rite...cant put a queen

You can put a queen pushed against the bay window and nothing else. Or you will need to slot the bed over the bay window if you want space for a side table.

sleek

31-05-11, 13:46

Cannot liao cos bathroom windows all frosted! :D

My favorite bathroom so far is that 4 bedroom corner bathroom of Clover by the park....imagine having a pampering bubble bath while enjoying the sunset view panorama... :p

DC33_2008

31-05-11, 13:46

Kids may grow up without wanting to share things with others. They should learn how to manage with limited resource and one of the most important values is the art of giving and sharing.
Ensuite bathroom is always good when you have extended family living together.... Elderly parents, siblings, children, etc.... no need to fight for washroom, got personal space for everyone, no argument on cleaning :p

fclim

31-05-11, 17:20

2 ensuites is gd enuff for multi gen living:D

But i rem minton jr master rm vy small rite...cant put a queen

The showflat shows a queen bed. Looks ok. Guess single bed will do if want more space.

5577

31-05-11, 17:56

Kids may grow up without wanting to share things with others. They should learn how to manage with limited resource and one of the most important values is the art of giving and sharing.

Agree with you on this. :)

But if the kids are older, having their own room and bathroom means they have to learn how to take responsibilities for the things they own. I'm happy if they are happy with a stinky room and bathroom... so long as the stench do not reach beyond their space!!! :D

5577

31-05-11, 17:58

The showflat shows a queen bed. Looks ok. Guess single bed will do if want more space.

In this pic, they actually cut the top portion of he mattress to fit it onto the bay window. If you buy a tempur mattress or some expensive 5 figure branded ones, you probably won't do it! :D :D

ysyap

31-05-11, 18:12

devilplate

31-05-11, 18:13

Not so sure about girls but boys will definitely learn to give and share in the army... bo pian... :D
Learn how to wayang n chao keng too
Hahahaha

fclim

31-05-11, 18:27

Not so sure about girls but boys will definitely learn to give and share in the army... bo pian... :D

Ya. Share their backpack with the maid too..:D

Fleur

31-05-11, 18:39