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View Full Version : Horzion Residences@Pasir Panjang hill.Coming Your Way Soon!!



Sea
12-03-10, 00:19
Details as Follows:

Freehold

No of Towers : 4

No of Storeys ; 5 + 1 Attic

From 1 to 4 bedrooms/

Waking distance to the future Haw Par Villa MRT/

Near Resort World Sentosa and Universal Studio

Close to Singapore Prestigious Local NUS

Located atop a Hill

Only 72 Exlcusive units

Choice units with Breath Taking Sea View

For more details..

Sms at 90686016 now!!

stalingrad
12-03-10, 08:56
breath taking sea view? breath taking cranes at work view is more apt description.

Reporter
12-03-10, 10:44
Just heard that Horizon in Pasir Panjang will be launching at more than 1500psf ! I banged my head for not grabbing a unit in Maylea

Is this true ??? :doh: :doh: :doh:
So when is this $1,500-psf Horizon Residences launching?

Sea
14-03-10, 23:26
Latest Updates:

Booking Start now!!

Private Presentation for Clients will be done this week.

Interested Buyers, Sms at 90686016 to register now~~

richwang
19-03-10, 11:00
I've got a price of S$1.4M for a 2 bed room.
I will need to borrow money to invest.
Is it worth it?

Thanks,
Richard
The Peak is only selling at S$1.2M for 2 bed room in the open market. (The MCL initial price was S$0.9M).

PropertiesHunter
21-03-10, 07:44
One set back about this project the entrance is on top of the pp hill. No small gate along pp road according to the draft. Need to walk a long way to mrt & busstop unlike peak@belmeg and parc imperial.

DC33_2008
21-03-10, 10:10
Will have good leg muscles staying there. How about cars then? It is rather steep to pay such high $psf.

gohsoonk
21-03-10, 21:51
What is the % are you borrowing?


I've got a price of S$1.4M for a 2 bed room.
I will need to borrow money to invest.
Is it worth it?


Thanks,
Richard
The Peak is only selling at S$1.2M for 2 bed room in the open market. (The MCL initial price was S$0.9M).

chestnut
21-03-10, 21:58
One set back about this project the entrance is on top of the pp hill. No small gate along pp road according to the draft. Need to walk a long way to mrt & busstop unlike peak@belmeg and parc imperial.

Was at west coast plaza today and those FEO staff are there. there is a side gate to pasir panjang road.

richwang
21-03-10, 22:58
What is the % are you borrowing?

The new offer is S$1.3M for 2 bed room. But all the 2 bed rooms are facing uphill. Sea view 3 bed room would cost S$1.7M. I need to borrow 70% - 80%. That's too risky.
China property market is peaking - most state-owned companies are ordered to exit property market by the Government. That normally hints a near peak.
If China property market starts to come down, it will ripple to Hong Kong, and maybe Singapore.

I really don't feel comfortable to buy now. If the interest rates start to hike, a 2 bedder could be prepared to drop to S$1M.

... or maybe I will miss the boat and will NEVER get a chance to buy in future. Anyone believes a 2 bedder can cost S$2M in 5 or 10 years' time?

It's so hard to find bargain now - be it property or stocks.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. I am sure there will be a side door to access the train station. Just look at West-N, etc. There must be members in the family not driving. So that's not my concern.

Reporter
21-03-10, 23:23
The new offer is S$1.3M for 2 bed room. But all the 2 bed rooms are facing uphill. Sea view 3 bed room would cost S$1.7M. I need to borrow 70% - 80%. That's too risky.
China property market is peaking - most state-owned companies are ordered to exit property market by the Government. That normally hints a near peak.
If China property market starts to come down, it will ripple to Hong Kong, and maybe Singapore.

I really don't feel comfortable to buy now. If the interest rates start to hike, a 2 bedder could be prepared to drop to S$1M.

... or maybe I will miss the boat and will NEVER get a chance to buy in future. Anyone believes a 2 bedder can cost S$2M in 5 or 10 years' time?

It's so hard to find bargain now - be it property or stocks.

Thanks,
Richard
PS. I am sure there will be a side door to access the train station. Just look at West-N, etc. There must be members in the family not driving. So that's not my concern.
"... China property market is peaking - most state-owned companies are ordered to exit property market by the Government. ..."
Do you mean "ordered to exit" or "ordered to enter"?

What you mentioned differs from what is happening on the Chinese ground.

http://www.reuters.com/resources/images/logo_reuters_media_us.gif
Land prices smash records in Beijing property frenzy
Aileen Wang, Zhou Xin and Simon Rabinovitch
Reuters
Beijing, China
Tuesday, 16 March 2010, 6.45 pm CCT

2 land sales in Beijing have shattered price records and both buyers were state-owned companies, sparking outrage and astonishment at the city's frothy property market.

The soaring land prices came as worries have mounted about a housing bubble in China, though economists said that the latest auction prices reflected peculiarities of the Beijing market and did not necessarily point to nationwide trouble.

China has tweaked taxes and stiffened mortgage rules in recent months to cool housing prices and analysts think it may hold off on further property curbs for a while amid signs that these earlier measures have had some success.

But many in the market think the country's 3rd increase this year of banks' required reserves is imminent to counter broader inflationary pressures.

A plot of residential land in Dongsheng, a 15-minute drive from the center of Beijing, was auctioned for 28,000 yuan (US$4,100) psm, the highest price ever paid in the city -- and just a fraction below the area's average house price.

At a separate auction, a 185,000-sqm block of residential land deep in suburbia in Yizhuang went for 5.25 billion yuan (US$769 million), the most ever paid in a single land transaction in Beijing.

An added wrinkle was that in both cases the buyers were state-owned enterprises (SOEs).

China Ordnance Equipment Group Corporation, a military company, bought the Dongsheng land. CITIC Group, the country's largest financial conglomerate and one which is directly led by the State Council, China's cabinet, bought the Yizhuang plot.

"The SOEs get even wilder. A crazy day for the Beijing land market" screamed the headline of the Chinese-language 21st Century Business Herald.

Private developers have complained that the deck was stacked in favor of state-run firms in Beijing's land auctions because the city required bidders to have registered assets that far outstrip those of some of the biggest listed property companies.

Liu Liyong, a research director at E-House China, a leading real estate service company, said state firms benefit from a close relationship with the government as well as vast capital bases.

"That's why the SOEs can always win the land auctions," Liu said.
Property prices across China rose 10.7 percent in February from a ye
ar earlier, though prices have increased far more steeply in certain segments of the market, such as high-end housing in top cities like Beijing and Shanghai.

Land prices have been even hotter, more than doubling over the past year.

Feng Ke, a finance and property professor at Beijing University, said it was only natural for prices to rocket in the capital.

"Land demand far exceeds supply because of the accelerating progress of urbanization," Feng said.

"Besides, the cost for primary developers in preparing a piece of land, including expenses in relocating residents and land clearance, has also increased in recent years, so it is understandable that land can be sold at such a high price."

But the country's most successful private property developers have been sidelined in the process.

SOHO China, whose avant-garde buildings have made an indelible mark on the center of Beijing, sat out the auctions.

SOHO chairman Pan Shiyi chided Ren Zhiqiang, chairman of Huayuan Property and China's best-paid property tycoon, for his failed bid, saying there was no point in battling against state-backed firms.

"Mr. Ren did not listen to me, and paid hundreds of millions of yuan in deposits to participate in the bidding," Pan wrote on his blog. "It is not spending money for land but for shame."

Ren replied that he would persevere.

"At least, we are still there," he wrote. "Mr. Pan has no guts to even get in. The auction system has killed all of Pan's confidence and courage."

richwang
21-03-10, 23:43
"... China property market is peaking - most state-owned companies are ordered to exit property market by the Government. ..."
Do you mean "ordered to exit" or "ordered to enter"?

What you mentioned differs from what is happening on the Chinese ground.

Your quote is dated back to Mar 16. We are now in Mar 21.
Could you check the latest report and come back again? It should read something like "apart from 12 full time property companies, the rest of 70+ state-owned companies are ordered to exit the property market".

It immediately happened precisely because of the record prices reached mentioned in your "old" report.

Thanks,

richwang
21-03-10, 23:50
Your quote is dated back to Mar 16. We are now in Mar 21.
Could you check the latest report and come back again? It should read something like "apart from 12 full time property companies, the rest of 70+ state-owned companies are ordered to exit the property market".

It immediately happened precisely because of the record prices reached mentioned in your "old" report.

Thanks,

Here we go. You can find lots more.

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90776/90882/6924396.html

Beijing rushes to curb housing bubble



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http://english.people.com.cn/mediafile/201003/19/P201003190904174971596685.jpg
China's authorities, apparently trying to allay rising complaints about housing prices and an urban land selling spree, decided Thursday to close door on State-owned enterprises purchasing land and engaging in property development.

More than 70 State-owned firms are being ordered to unwind their real estate business, once their current development projects are completed, a spokesman from the State Council's State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission told reporters in Beijing.

One day after China's Premier Wen Jiabao vowed at a press conference held upon the closing of the annual National People's Congress on March 14, in the capital city of Beijing, three plots of land earmarked for housing development were auctioned and their prices topped at record highs at the hammer.

The voracious appetite for land in cities like Beijing and Shanghai where housing prices have already soared by strides and are not affordable by most ordinary residents, immediately caused an uproar and fierce criticism on the Internet chat-rooms.

The super-wealthy State-owned enterprises, which are administered by the Beijing Central Government, are blamed for firing up the land acquisition frenzy, which is sure to push up housing prices further.

According to The Beijing News, a local newspaper, the three firms that bid the highest, with an aggregate price tag of 11 billion yuan (US$1.6 billion), are all State-owned large enterprises. One tract of the land, located in Wangjing, northeast the city, sold for 27,000 yuan (US$3,970) per square meter, even higher than the price of finished apartments in the area.

Dangerous Asset Bubbles

Without specifying a date, the State Council's commission in charge of more than 120 mega State-owned enterprises, ruled that 78 state companies, whose main businesses were not property development, will be put under "adjustment and restructuring” as soon as their current projects under development are accomplished, said commission spokesman Du Yuan-quan at a press conference held on Thursday.

However, 16 central government-run enterprises approved by the commission in 2003 to mainly operate in the real estate sector, will remain in the business, Du said. The 16 companies' net profit was 18.8 billion yuan in 2009.

In another government move to curtail land prices, the Ministry of Land and Resources, also under the State Council, decreed last week that realty developers pay a 50 percent down payment on land acquisitions within a month of signing a contract.

China's ordinary urban residents have complained hard that home prices have been rising out of their reach, despite a set of government policies to rein in speculation and asset bubbles. The National Bureau of Statistics said that housing prices increased by 10.7 percent in February from a year earlier.

Some Chinese analysts say that a large proportion of the government's 4-trillion-yuan (US$586 billion) stimulus spending plan has gone to State-owned enterprises, but many of which poured the money into the property market, creating an imminent housing sector bubble in the country in 2009. Some SOEs have grabbed enormous profits in the property sector because their official background makes them easier to obtain land and bank loans.

Economists have cautioned the central government of growing risks posed by the real estate bubbles, which if burst, might trigger the American-style mortgage crisis, dealing a blow to the country's banking system.

People's Daily Online

Reporter
22-03-10, 00:27
http://www.reuters.com/resources/images/logo_reuters_media_us.gif
China's order on SOEs to help key property developers
Lee Chyen Yee
Reuters
Hong Kong
Friday, 19 March 2010

China's plans to ask some state firms whose core business is not property to exit the sector will likely benefit major developers by helping consolidate the industry, analysts said on Friday.

China's latest order came days after a state military company and a financial conglomerate bought two pieces of land in Beijing at record-high prices, sparking market worries that the property market was getting out of hand.

On Friday, Shanghai and Hong Kong property indices inched up. A-shares of China Vanke, the biggest Chinese residential developer by sales, rose as investors welcomed the order aimed at curbing land prices.

"This is administrative interference to the business of the SOEs (state-owned enterprises)," said Lee Hing Yin, research director at Colliers International. "The measure is in response to high land prices."

"This is one way to rein in property prices at their source by controlling land prices," Lee said.

China's real estate sector is booming, enticing many firms to venture into the business to take advantage of high prices. In February, urban property prices rose 10.7% from a year earlier, the fastest pace in almost 2 years.

Chinese leaders have tried verbal persuasion to try to curb prices over the past few months, with analysts expecting more specific measures to be announced if words had little impact.

On Thursday, the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission said it would require 78 centrally administration SOEs whose core business was not in real estate to withdraw from the business, but did not state a timeframe.

"If the government bans these companies from the real estate business, it will be beneficial to the existing players, especially the listed companies like China Overseas Land, said Adrian Ngan, an analyst at CCB International Securities.

"The impact will be positive because in the future, some of the players will be eliminated and that will mean less competition," Ngan said.

Even though the move is seen as positive for existing developers, the boost in sales or earnings might be muted as property SOEs still make up the bulk of total property sales and assets among state firms.

The commission said there were now 16 property SOEs with total assets of 561.6 billion yuan ($83 billion), representing 85% of SOEs' total property assets. Sales of SOEs dedicated to the real estate sector account for 86% of the total property sales of all government-owned firms.
"richwang", you are right. I just read that piece of news.


Nevertheless, I disagree with your statement "China property market is peaking - most state-owned companies are ordered to exit property market by the Government. That normally hints a near peak.

If China property market starts to come down ..."

The Chinese government is not trying to bring down the market. It is trying to ensure (aka support) that the property market has a stable growth by eliminating (aka kill) any explosive rise which is unhealthy.

While it has every reason to support the market, it has no reason to bring down the market.


Anyway, you have your points and I have mine too. Let's allow the market be our judge. You may be right.

http://static.businessinsider.com/assets/images/logos/logo-tbi.gif
Wen JiaBao Promises To Kill Bubbles While Supporting Asset Prices
Vincent Fernando
Business Insider
Monday, 1 March 2010

http://static.businessinsider.com/image/4b8a83057f8b9a470c1c0200-400-/wen-jiabao.jpg

One wonders if the Chinese government is setting its citizens expectations dangerously high right now.

According to Xinhua, Wen Jiabao staged a chat with Chinese 'netizens' whereby he promised to keep inflation under control and prevent a housing bubble.

Thing is, we're pretty sure that the government is expected to support housing values and stock markets at the same time. While keeping the yuan pegged at a competitive rate vs. the dollar of course.

Obviously China has gotten away with setting pretty high economic expectations for quite some time already, but it seems as if almost every economic variable is now expected to be under the deliberate control of the government.

This is great for public relations while the economy is humming along, but one as to wonder if these government economic guarantees will one day come back to bite, hard. Maybe they should learn the importance of 'under-promising, over-delivering' rather than over-promising and then simply hoping for the best.

pearly
22-03-10, 10:32
Was at west coast plaza today and those FEO staff are there. there is a side gate to pasir panjang road.

not sure how the side gate works. its sandwich between other developments, unless one has to walk down the slope.

hyacinthus
12-06-10, 13:29
One set back about this project the entrance is on top of the pp hill. No small gate along pp road according to the draft. Need to walk a long way to mrt & busstop unlike peak@belmeg and parc imperial.
There's a sidegate along Pasir Panjang Rd. Less than 2min walk to Haw Par Villa MRT station (opening next year) and the bus stop opposite Barossa Gardens. Bus services available are 10, 30, 51, 143, 175, 188, 200.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3074/dsc7827.jpg
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6910/dsc7826.jpg

Personally, I prefer those 2 bedders along Pasir Panjang Hill.

hyacinthus
12-06-10, 13:33
btw, I've also posted pictures of the showflat here (http://www.myhometown.sg/Forum/tabid/84/aff/99/aft/71157/afv/topic/Default.aspx).

There's a 2 level basement carpark. So, take a lift to B2 and walk towards the sidegate to Pasir Panjang Road.

rattydrama
14-07-10, 14:20
I notice that D5 condo especially the Pasir Panjang Areas after the juction of Versity Park, prices up very fast in the last 2 years. This place used to be a deserted area for some while others mistook as Bukit Panjang. Whats the reasons for the fast increase, can anyone share?

Any potential to invest in this area?

cher
14-07-10, 16:48
I notice that D5 condo especially the Pasir Panjang Areas after the juction of Versity Park, prices up very fast in the last 2 years. This place used to be a deserted area for some while others mistook as Bukit Panjang. Whats the reasons for the fast increase, can anyone share?

Any potential to invest in this area?


It is partly due to the 2 IRs that are pretty close, also near to town and the rental yield since near to NUS, Science PK, One North etc.

hyacinthus
14-07-10, 18:15
Further to that, older condos in the area were enbloc-ed and redeveloped resulting to higher transaction prices.

CCL Haw Par Villa station will open next year (Don't think the Government built a station there for fun. There should potentially be plots of land around it for further development. I could think of YESS Centre, the Pasir Panjang Wholesale Centre and Haw Par Villa etc).


Condos around the station are freehold. I think that's a strong point for long term investment.


There's also a high possibility of the extension of CCL from Harbourfront to Marina Bay given the announcement of a masterplan to develop Tanjong Pagar port to a waterfront city. If Tanjong Pagar and Pasir Panjang ports can be consolidated at Tuas in the next 20 to 30 years' time, the upside potential can then be strongly felt.

gn108
14-07-10, 23:01
Horizon Residences set benchmark for the Haw Par area, and pushed up asking prices for condos like Peak @ Balmeg.

Also Pender Court nearer Vivocity went en bloc at over 1k ppr. New launch will have to be over 1.5k psf.
So with Horizon Residences fetching 1.3k+ psf, everything between these two developments will be pushed up.

High rentals (NUS, Biopolis etc), Sentosa IR, and up-coming MRT Circle lines are some of the reasons.

There a few projects along this stretch (P Panjang MRT to Haw Par MRT) that are potential en bloc targets in future e.g. Island View :2cents: , Pepys Hill Condo :2cents: etc

proud owner
14-07-10, 23:15
Horizon Residences set benchmark for the Haw Par area, and pushed up asking prices for condos like Peak @ Balmeg.

Also Pender Court nearer Vivocity went en bloc at over 1k ppr. New launch will have to be over 1.5k psf.
So with Horizon Residences fetching 1.3k+ psf, everything between these two developments will be pushed up.

High rentals (NUS, Biopolis etc), Sentosa IR, and up-coming MRT Circle lines are some of the reasons.

There a few projects along this stretch (P Panjang MRT to Haw Par MRT) that are potential en bloc targets in future e.g. Island View :2cents: , Pepys Hill Condo :2cents: etc


island view and pepys hll will be tough to be enbloced

Island view are mostly foreign owners ..they have resisted enbloc internally many many times over .. cos they simply love the size and surrounding and truly understand that they can never find a location in spore like it .. so DONT bang on it .. i have friends in there ..

Pepys hill sits on a slope .. the land itself is very small .. not much chance really ..

these 2 projects are truly one of its kind .. together with The Peak ( not balmeg) ... they are the true gems of pasir panjang

if u are thinkin of enbloc for the 2 u mentioned .. my advise is ... dont bang on it ...

rattydrama
15-07-10, 00:46
Further to that, older condos in the area were enbloc-ed and redeveloped resulting to higher transaction prices.

CCL Haw Par Villa station will open next year (Don't think the Government built a station there for fun. There should potentially be plots of land around it for further development. I could think of YESS Centre, the Pasir Panjang Wholesale Centre and Haw Par Villa etc).


Condos around the station are freehold. I think that's a strong point for long term investment.


There's also a high possibility of the extension of CCL from Harbourfront to Marina Bay given the announcement of a masterplan to develop Tanjong Pagar port to a waterfront city. If Tanjong Pagar and Pasir Panjang ports can be consolidated at Tuas in the next 20 to 30 years' time, the upside potential can then be strongly felt.


20-30 years, like that my neck very long leh. In the case, it could be better to put my money in Jurong Lake District at least is like 15 years.

In 20 years time, Woodlands could also be developed with water front features less the port. ;)

rattydrama
15-07-10, 00:53
island view and pepys hll will be tough to be enbloced

Island view are mostly foreign owners ..they have resisted enbloc internally many many times over .. cos they simply love the size and surrounding and truly understand that they can never find a location in spore like it .. so DONT bang on it .. i have friends in there ..

Pepys hill sits on a slope .. the land itself is very small .. not much chance really ..

these 2 projects are truly one of its kind .. together with The Peak ( not balmeg) ... they are the true gems of pasir panjang

if u are thinkin of enbloc for the 2 u mentioned .. my advise is ... dont bang on it ...

Potentially what are the old projects likely to be en-bloc along Pasir Panjang Road?

I quite like this place becos there is No HDB flats and high rise buildings along the pasir panjang road, it gives an exclusive feel as mostly all condos are low laying about 6 storey high & freehold.

proud owner
15-07-10, 00:55
Potentially what are the old projects likely to be en-bloc along Pasir Panjang Road?

I quite like this place becos there is No HDB flats and high rise buildings along the pasir panjang road, it gives an exclusive feel as mostly all condos are low laying about 6 storey high & freehold.

developers may eye Island view and flynn park

but owners very unwilling to be enbloc


frangrance court .. is possible ..

so is Gloria mansion

devilplate
15-07-10, 01:09
flynn park got gd potential for enbloc...but i cant fish out any gd deals since last yr lows...lol and asking prices up and uppppp

proud owner
15-07-10, 01:13
flynn park got gd potential for enbloc...but i cant fish out any gd deals since last yr lows...lol and asking prices up and uppppp

u know my story right ?

i bought a unit 2100 sqft at 900k .. gave cheque ..everything done ..
stupid agent held on to the check .. couldnt get hold of owner ( as they lived oversea) ...waited 1 week ..by then owner changed their mind ..

somehow they advertised 850k kept moving price ..until i hit at 900k still ran away .. now 2.1 mio

rattydrama
15-07-10, 01:18
ouch! so painful...when was that? judging @2.1m if it is going to en-bloc, how much can pocket?

proud owner
15-07-10, 01:22
ouch! so painful...when was that? judging @2.1m if it is going to en-bloc, how much can pocket?

that was in 06 ...

2.1 mio = 1000 psf ..

u judge ..

to enbloc at least 1500 psf otherwise owner not keen ..

at 1500 psf .. develoerps will have to sell at least 2000 psf ( 300 psf const cost + 200 psf profit margin)

2000 psf for the new condo at pasir panjang ??? then orchard will be 5000 psf ... will take years for PP to reach 2000 psf ...

proud owner
15-07-10, 01:24
ouch! so painful...when was that? judging @2.1m if it is going to en-bloc, how much can pocket?

if u really want to buy for enbloc ..

look at Vista park .. 99 LH ..land huge ..alot of empty space .. very nice surrounding .. i feel that one more potential ...

rattydrama
15-07-10, 01:41
that was in 06 ...

2.1 mio = 1000 psf ..

u judge ..

to enbloc at least 1500 psf otherwise owner not keen ..

at 1500 psf .. develoerps will have to sell at least 2000 psf ( 300 psf const cost + 200 psf profit margin)

2000 psf for the new condo at pasir panjang ??? then orchard will be 5000 psf ... will take years for PP to reach 2000 psf ...

wow that was long ago.. I never/dare not think of going into property during that time cos pocket not deep. Work very hard until these days and realized ppty price really go sky high - very sad.

I guess first owner will not object since they bou at low low price? This will mean that anyone buying now will risk not able to take back their capital if 80% of the owners agree to en-bloc

what if they make MM condos? at least this area dont have many mm units...

so meaning that we have to get condo that is around 600psf then at least got hope to en bloc amongst other things such as locations etc.

Thanks for replying :ashamed1:

devilplate
15-07-10, 01:43
its take more info to noe whether a project enbloc viable anot...its not so simple by just looking at current psf..

nid to look at plot ratio, landsize...mabe last time GFA not fully utilised

btw, anybody knows how to check a land size of a particular condo?

rattydrama
15-07-10, 01:49
ya agree.. also must within walking distance to MRT as well.

gn108
15-07-10, 11:27
I agree it'll be tough to en bloc these developments but not impossible, once the land prices rises over the ever depreciating building structures.
(The old and sickly must give way to the new - regardless of how unique.)

There are many factors to determine if en bloc is practical.
Land size (and shape), per plot ratio of the land (ppr = land price), plot ratio (PR=built-up intensity) and location. (PSF in the area is another story but affects the owners/developers motivation)
Most variable will be the PPR. (Even slopes/hills can be worked by the developers eg Peak@ Balmeg, Flamingo Valley or Sophia Residences)

For eg. Flynn Park is 208,433k sf of land. At 1.4x PR, that gives 291,806 of potential GFA. Key question is what is the ppr or land price? $650ppr? or $690ppr? or more esp with MRT and other indicators mentioned before.
Let's take a ppr of $670, that gives a land value is $196m. With 72 units, thats $2.72m per unit.
But I suspect it'll take more to entice to part with the land - that is the gamble in investing in EB potential properties.

(Benchmarks - Goodrich Park went EB at $629 ppr (Serangoon/with MRT)
Pender Court went EB at $1008 ppr (D4/with CCL coming)
Culford Gardens went EB at $632 ppr (Siglap/with no MRT)

hyacinthus
15-07-10, 19:48
20-30 years, like that my neck very long leh. In the case, it could be better to put my money in Jurong Lake District at least is like 15 years.

In 20 years time, Woodlands could also be developed with water front features less the port. ;)

Would you put your money in Woodlands or Jurong Lake District then?

Posted this image from URA website. West Coast station on the map is renamed Haw Par Villa station and the blue / purple areas are developments like One-north, Mapletree business city etc

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4223/mwsnap17720100613110947.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/mwsnap17720100613110947.jpg/)
--------------------------
Singapore plans to keep coastal engineers busy for the next 20 years

BUILDING & ENGINEERING | Singapore plans to keep coastal engineers busy for the next 20 years

A waterfront city, a consolidated port and more land reclamation could keep Singapore's coastal engineers busy for the next twenty years.


Not bad for a tiny little island. Singapore's Economic Strategies Committee (ESC), has a few plans in the pipeline that will keep the nation's coastal engineering sector busy for the next three decades or so.



The Economic Strategies Committee, whose objective is to develop and recommend strategies to grow the nation as a leading global city in the heart of Asia, has plans to make a waterfront city, a consolidated port and continue to reclaim land according to a report from the committee.



The waterfront city which will be located where the current Tanjong Pagar, Keppel and Pulau Brani port is located may begin construction upon the expiration of the port's lease terminals in 2027. The Economic Strategies Committee decision behind the waterfront city was a "strategic shift to a productivity-driven economy requires us to make bold moves to re-plan our city and recycle land to support new economic activities," the report said.
And the waterfront city will also bring about spin-off industries that will revolve around proposed waterfront city. "With a land area comparable in size to Marina Bay, this area can be comprehensively master-planned and progressively redeveloped as a new waterfront city with the potential to capture international attention. This will potentially allow for a substantial expansion of the business district, integrated with waterfront housing, hotels, lifestyle and tourism uses," the Economic Strategies Committee said in a note.



But where will the ports containers and cargo go?



Tuas. The ESC is considering under Concept Plan 2011 the feasibility of a consolidated port at Tuas in the long term, which will have with adequate handling capacity to ensure continued competitiveness. "If feasible, it will increase port efficiency by allowing the port to achieve greater economies of scale in terms of land and operations, and free up existing port land to support new economic activities in the future," said the ESC.



Finally the ESC has stated that although land reclamation has been an area that Singapore has excelled at in the past, there will be limitations with this process going forward which may force Singaporeans underground.
"While we can expand our land mass through reclamation as we have done for Marina Bay, there will be limits in the long-run. In the next 10 years, the government should seek to catalyse the development of underground space as a means to intensify land use," the ESC stated in their report.



http://www.sbr.com.sg/news/2622

rattydrama
16-07-10, 09:20
I agree it'll be tough to en bloc these developments but not impossible, once the land prices rises over the ever depreciating building structures.
(The old and sickly must give way to the new - regardless of how unique.)

There are many factors to determine if en bloc is practical.
Land size (and shape), per plot ratio of the land (ppr = land price), plot ratio (PR=built-up intensity) and location. (PSF in the area is another story but affects the owners/developers motivation)
Most variable will be the PPR. (Even slopes/hills can be worked by the developers eg Peak@ Balmeg, Flamingo Valley or Sophia Residences)

For eg. Flynn Park is 208,433k sf of land. At 1.4x PR, that gives 291,806 of potential GFA. Key question is what is the ppr or land price? $650ppr? or $690ppr? or more esp with MRT and other indicators mentioned before.
Let's take a ppr of $670, that gives a land value is $196m. With 72 units, thats $2.72m per unit.
But I suspect it'll take more to entice to part with the land - that is the gamble in investing in EB potential properties.

(Benchmarks - Goodrich Park went EB at $629 ppr (Serangoon/with MRT)
Pender Court went EB at $1008 ppr (D4/with CCL coming)
Culford Gardens went EB at $632 ppr (Siglap/with no MRT)


Thanks for sharing. Can I ask how are we going to obtain info on ppr? Is this transparent to us?

Also where to find the land size of each project? Or hopefully the forumer here can compile for D5? :-)

Notice Panjang Panjang's pr is 1.4x set by URA while some other areas is at 2.8x. Do you think there is any potential to up the plot ratio? If no, why not?

rattydrama
16-07-10, 09:46
Would you put your money in Woodlands or Jurong Lake District then?

Posted this image from URA website. West Coast station on the map is renamed Haw Par Villa station and the blue / purple areas are developments like One-north, Mapletree business city etc



Jurong Lake District is a sure thing as it is already in the master plan. However, for Pasir Panjang its still yet to be finalised? I think Pasir Panjang will have a lot of potential. The port issue is a minus point at the moment.

Woodlands will consider if project is next to Woolands MRT. Any idea what is gov's plan on those empty plots of land near the MRT? These empty plots are there for 12 years since causeway point TOP.

Woodlands is basically a self sufficient town and the roads there are wider, with less traffic density, people not staying in Woodlands will not passby. You can basically work there (alot of food industries, 3M etc at admiralty road west, gambus avenue and even further north Yishun) without coming out of woodlands. There are plenty of lands waiting to be developed and there is no condo near MRT at the moment.

The sad thing is HDB price in Woodlands are cheaper and seems like more PRCs now.

gn108
16-07-10, 16:21
PR and height restriction set by URA.
For Pasir Panjang, I think it's going to be 1.4x for a long time. Reason: I think has something to do with blending of the overall landscape - being there is alot of landed properties there.

If the ports move (20 year time!), then those will be 2.8x. (just like in the East Coast, 2.8x by ECP and 1.4x on the inside roads with landed).

As for PPR, that is the variable question.
You have to gauge from recent nearby launches and work backward or from recent nearby en bloc to get a good guide.

So eg. Balestier, Diamond Twr went for 6xx ppr in q1 2010. Now watch for Melrose Court for q3. Both 2.8x plot ratio and pretty similar in size.



Thanks for sharing. Can I ask how are we going to obtain info on ppr? Is this transparent to us?

Also where to find the land size of each project? Or hopefully the forumer here can compile for D5? :-)

Notice Panjang Panjang's pr is 1.4x set by URA while some other areas is at 2.8x. Do you think there is any potential to up the plot ratio? If no, why not?

wesing
16-07-10, 16:42
PR and height restriction set by URA.
For Pasir Panjang, I think it's going to be 1.4x for a long time. Reason: I think has something to do with blending of the overall landscape - being there is alot of landed properties there.

If the ports move (20 year time!), then those will be 2.8x. (just like in the East Coast, 2.8x by ECP and 1.4x on the inside roads with landed).

As for PPR, that is the variable question.
You have to gauge from recent nearby launches and work backward or from recent nearby en bloc to get a good guide.

So eg. Balestier, Diamond Twr went for 6xx ppr in q1 2010. Now watch for Melrose Court for q3. Both 2.8x plot ratio and pretty similar in size.

If we are expecting the port to move in 20 years - no way. The construction of Pasir Panjang mega container terminal was divided into 4 phase over 30 years. Land reclamation started in 1993-4. So PPT will be fully operational in 2024.

So make you think after spending billions of dollars reclaming land, instaling monster size quay cranes, building highway/flyovers to connect it with Tanjong Pagar, Keppel and Brani that it will relocate in 20 years time:tsk-tsk: :tsk-tsk: PPT has a capacity of handling over 30 million twenty-foot containers a year. If relocate, where to go man? Singapore do not have a very long coastline you know. You also need deep waters to handle the new generation of giantic container vessels so suitable sites for ports are limited. Furthermore, PPT is built with the intention of taking over the volume from Tanjong Pagar terminal so that the latter could be de-commissoned when lease end.

The current talk of a possible port at Tuas is more to replace Keppel and Brani terminal as these two are also sitting on prime land.

wesing
16-07-10, 16:53
I believe PSA sign a long lease with the government for the PPT land. If not, who will divide the construction over 30 years.

I reckon the lease to be at least 50 years from the completion of phase I when the port became partially operational in 2000.

rattydrama
26-07-10, 11:52
It may be a 50:50 case. When PSA sign the long lease, did the government consider the coming of the casinos and 2 IRs, investment on medical science and education hubs which can reap high yields? Probably not, if it was signed long long time ago.

The future aspirations give way to the current. What is planned long time ago may need to be revisited in order to stay relevant.

If after the study by government, Tuas is a more viable choice in terms of proximity to Jurong Industrial Estate coupled with deep water, I think it can be convinced.

Moreover, create jobs for Singaporeans and boost the economy. With such big scale, can justify for their million dollars pay as well.




I believe PSA sign a long lease with the government for the PPT land. If not, who will divide the construction over 30 years.

I reckon the lease to be at least 50 years from the completion of phase I when the port became partially operational in 2000.

wesing
26-07-10, 12:32
Agreed. But then it will take at least another 20-30 years or so to construct a mega container port to fully replace Pasir Panjang if your replacement scenario comes true.

Singapore is still the largest container port in the world. Port operations will remain as the vital pillar of sg economic activity regardless of the IR and other new developments.

If there is a need to shift, I would think that keppel and brani terminals will go first before Pasir Panjang. The land there are definitely more prime.

Btw, photo of the Pasir Panjang container terminal is attched below. Land reclamation is currently underway on the right of the terminal (towards labrador park).

What do you think is the chances of relocating this mega project which costs billions of dollars (probably more than the 2 IRs added together) to construct in the first place?

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae282/SCskysc/Transportation/ScreenShot032.jpg

wesing
26-07-10, 12:36
The extension to the current Pasir Panjang container port (currently still reclaiming land) is show in the photo below.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Vxu_tx5NynY/SEEkjjl7HCI/AAAAAAAAHFM/bsuU1j8AI20/s400/P5310175m6a.jpg

devilplate
26-07-10, 13:04
wow...but we may not live tat long to see it happen...even if it does....oredi too old to enjoy the windfall:D

gn108
26-07-10, 13:18
Nice pictures. Thanks.

I think Pasir Panjang area will remain less crowded with the PSA being there. That's a good think for some and not so good thing for others.

rattydrama
26-07-10, 13:38
Government is going to review this as reported. Don’t have any clue on how much is the relocation cost and the opportunity cost. Is shifting out good for D5 property? Will there be less rental opportunity?

wesing
26-07-10, 13:52
Government is going to review this as reported. Don’t have any clue on how much is the relocation cost and the opportunity cost. Is shifting out good for D5 property? Will there be less rental opportunity?

I dun think there is much existing rental support from the PSA staff. The port is ultra-modern and very automated. Anyway, most employees are Singaporean.

If the shift ever ever materializes, it means more waterfront living for Singaporeans. Condo could line up the wharfs used to be occupied by the gigantic quay cranes and container boxes:D :D :D By then, the reclaimed land should be solid enough to take tall buildings.

gfoo
26-07-10, 13:56
The government has not announced anything. The shift of Tg Pagar was recommendations of an economic subcommittee, and is unofficial till sanctioned.

But that's tanjong pagar.

There are no plans previously, presently or in the future for pasir panjang terminal to be moved, at least not for the next few decades or more. In Fact, PPT will be expanded. Almost a billion has been spent on this expansion to date, with $632m in 2010 alone.

Budget 2010 (http://www.mof.gov.sg/budget_2010/expenditure_overview/mot.html)

$632 million will be spent in FY2010 to expand the Pasir Panjang Terminal. The Port of Singapore has a current capacity of around 32 million twenty-foot equivalent units (TEUs). The expansion of the Pasir Panjang Terminal will raise the total port capacity to around 50 million TEUs when it is completed and operational, providing capacity to support future growth of the port and to maintain our position as one of the world’s leading transshipment hubs.

stalingrad
26-07-10, 14:14
the government is now building a flyover in front of the entrance of PP port. Right at this moment!!!! You guys must be kidding yourself with this silly talk.

rattydrama
26-07-10, 16:08
Sfoo, thanks for sharing with us these datas & info. With such huge investment, its unlikely and almost impossible to shift in the near future. Its reported Tanjang Pagar but earlier post by forumer also mentioned Pasir Panjang so my views earlier was open.

For investors who view port & pollution as a factor, Pasir Panjang price will face some resistance.

tanumy
26-07-10, 16:13
better buy double bay residence in d18 and it is highly undervalued and great chance to go upppppppp due to singapore 4th uni.


Sfoo, thanks for sharing with us these datas & info. With such huge investment, its unlikely and almost impossible to shift in the near future. Its reported Tanjang Pagar but earlier post by forumer also mentioned Pasir Panjang so my views earlier was open.

For investors who view port & pollution as a factor, Pasir Panjang price will face some resistance.

gn108
26-07-10, 16:41
Agree.

The sight of cranes and the flyover give PP a very industrial feel.
Even the buildings there serve a more warehouse-type function.

Not sure if the cranes bring pollution, but PP/East Coast will remain a more rustic environment than compared to its East Coast sister.

There are a few things going for it though which is the CCL and less congestion.

devilplate
03-08-10, 16:12
This project quite gd among the available FEO projects now.

recently peak@balmeg transacted 1300psf for a 2bedder.

nice furnishings at the showflat...big piece marble flooring...coffeemaker, fridge, washer/dryer, wine cellar, dish washer everything in. minimum wastage on the flrplan for the 2bedder...no planter box and only baywindow at the master bedrm. 5th flr and PH not for sale.

left with the last 2bedder unit, 1001sqft and was quoted ard 14xxpsf (still can nego abit more if got loyalty blah blah)....it is not overpriced considering subsale peak@balmeg hit 1300psf....but this one u goto wait till 2013/2014....FEO most likely will sell at higher prices for those 5th flr units later on if u noe their pattern...:D

worth taking a look if u r looking to buy peak@balmeg currently and dun mind waiting for 3yrs.

wesing
03-08-10, 16:48
In lieu of the construction of Singapore's first Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) terminal on Jurong Island with a initial capacity of 3.5 million ton per annum (by 2013) and expandable to 6 mtpa, wonder whether if there is a blast in the LNG termnal, will it also destroy West Coast and Pasir Panjang:D :D

devilplate
03-08-10, 16:51
In lieu of the construction of Singapore's first Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) terminal on Jurong Island with a initial capacity of 3.5 million ton per annum (by 2013) and expandable to 6 mtpa, wonder whether if there is a blast in the LNG termnal, will it also destroy West Coast and Pasir Panjang:D :D

wah...imagine buy horizon...waited for 3yrs and when it almost TOP den suddenly....:scared-1: :D :D

gn108
05-08-10, 10:00
Even less congestion after the explosion - :doh: .

Horizon is not too bad in finishing but 1.4k psf for that area seems over priced. Peak @ Balmeg just riding on FEO pricing.

cher
05-08-10, 10:05
In lieu of the construction of Singapore's first Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) terminal on Jurong Island with a initial capacity of 3.5 million ton per annum (by 2013) and expandable to 6 mtpa, wonder whether if there is a blast in the LNG termnal, will it also destroy West Coast and Pasir Panjang:D :D


In east coast people scare of Indonesia earth quake in west coast scare of this, scare this scare that better still in JB lar! Anything can happen anyway anytime:doh:

cher
05-08-10, 10:07
Even less congestion after the explosion - :doh: .

Horizon is not too bad in finishing but 1.4k psf for that area seems over priced. Peak @ Balmeg just riding on FEO pricing.

Vision 99 yrs already 1100-1200psf this one FH 1.4k not unreasonable lar! AMK 99yrs already how much this one somemore near Vivo and sentosa. Like that better stay in HDB lar:p

teddybear
05-08-10, 10:21
Near Sentosa's another island may house our future Nuclear plant?
May be central part of Singapore is better if anything happen from the surroundings of Singapore will be shielded by those at those at the coasts?


In east coast people scare of Indonesia earth quake in west coast scare of this, scare this scare that better still in JB lar! Anything can happen anyway anytime:doh:

richwang
09-08-10, 10:45
The URA data shows 2 units have been sold at S$1688 psf with total cost of S$2.2M (for a 3 bedder!)
What if the interest rate goes up after 2 years? Are the buyers like the Sentosa Cove type who simply pays in cash?!
Are we entering a bubble now? Can the buyers or agents share with me your thoughts?

Thanks,
Richard

rattydrama
22-08-10, 16:28
Peak @ Balmeg has sold all their pen houses at $1000psf around 2.5m, FH. So I think the buyers for Horizon Residences should be pretty rich, paying $1688psf.

Possibly a win fall from Resort World so dont mind throwing some $ here.

It would be niece for some developers to build some big big pen houses exclusively around D5 area and market to this class of people or re-develop the Peak at Peppy's Hill...... D5 price will set to rocket. Just my thoughts..... why build so many MM units where it is already such a saturated market now? Go for the BIG $$. Tell them freehold, big areas cheaper than HK, China, see view etc.

Sell few units can rest well.

cher
22-08-10, 21:53
better buy double bay residence in d18 and it is highly undervalued and great chance to go upppppppp due to singapore 4th uni.

Ya with no amenities except a merserable East Point plua all the ah nai staying at Mervile Park.:D

rattydrama
17-10-10, 16:57
It just puzzled me how FEO can sell such high psf.



Address Tenure PSF Area Sqft Price Contract Date
45 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-15 Freehold $1616 1475 $2382k 20 Sep 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #02-03 Freehold $1379 1001 $1380k 17 Sep 10
45 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-16 Freehold $1598 1475 $2355k 16 Sep 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-04 Freehold $1458 1001 $1459k 16 Sep 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-03 Freehold $1547 1001 $1549k 14 Sep 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-05 Freehold $1457 1001 $1459k 25 Aug 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #05-02 Freehold $1785 2713 $4842k 26 Jul 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #02-04 Freehold $1366 1001 $1367k 08 Jul 10
43 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-10 Freehold $1384 1023 $1415k 07 Jul 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-07 Freehold $1688 1356 $2289k 06 Jul 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-06 Freehold $1522 936 $1425k 06 Jul 10
45 Pasir Panjang Hill #02-13 Freehold $1340 1421 $1903k 06 Jul 10
43 Pasir Panjang Hill #03-09 Freehold $1357 1324 $1796k 05 Jul 10
45 Pasir Panjang Hill #03-16 Freehold $1390 990 $1376k 25 Jun 10
43 Pasir Panjang Hill #01-12 Freehold $1286 990 $1273k 25 Jun 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #02-01 Freehold $1414 1356 $1918k 25 Jun 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #03-06 Freehold $1399 936 $1310k 23 Jun 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #04-08 Freehold $1688 1356 $2289k 22 Jun 10
41 Pasir Panjang Hill #01-01 Freehold $1392 1044 $1453k 17 Jun 10
43 Pasir Panjang Hill #02-11 Freehold $1288 990 $1275k 17 Jun 10

richwang
17-10-10, 23:15
How about those owners next door who have just got their en bloc funds? They need a replacement home, and Horizon is very good for own stay.

By the way, 20 units sold among 72 units is not something to celebrate, and FEO is spending so much on newspaper advertisments. Maybe we should buy SPH stock.

Thanks,
Richard

rattydrama
17-10-10, 23:28
FEO selling at high price and yet people still bite. I would think that 20 sales is not bad either. If FEO reduces their asking price by 15%, I believed all will be completely sold. Coming TOP, more units will be sold at even higher price if current sentiments remains. Even if FEO cannot sell out, the remaining units will be put on lease until the target price met. This area is a private condo enclave, rental should be good.




How about those owners next door who have just got their en bloc funds? They need a replacement home, and Horizon is very good for own stay.

By the way, 20 units sold among 72 units is not something to celebrate, and FEO is spending so much on newspaper advertisments. Maybe we should buy SPH stock.

Thanks,
Richard

gn108
18-10-10, 10:02
Pender court (D4) will be MM. I'm positive, Bkt Sembawang will develop Fairways (D5) with some MM units.

With D5 - the ones with potential will be The Peak, Island View, Flynn Park and possibly Pepys Hill condo. Rest are too new.

I think D4 and D5 has potential as well - RWS, Vivo and later, the Railway station development, Spottiswood and TP in general.


Peak @ Balmeg has sold all their pen houses at $1000psf around 2.5m, FH. So I think the buyers for Horizon Residences should be pretty rich, paying $1688psf.

Possibly a win fall from Resort World so dont mind throwing some $ here.

It would be niece for some developers to build some big big pen houses exclusively around D5 area and market to this class of people or re-develop the Peak at Peppy's Hill...... D5 price will set to rocket. Just my thoughts..... why build so many MM units where it is already such a saturated market now? Go for the BIG $$. Tell them freehold, big areas cheaper than HK, China, see view etc.

Sell few units can rest well.

Ipadbee
19-06-13, 10:36
Im going to get the 1 bedroom unit at the ground floor, please advice is this unit ok? any odd shape?
Please post the 1 bedroom floor plan , if you still have the brochure with you . Thank you

Ringo33
19-06-13, 22:58
Im going to get the 1 bedroom unit at the ground floor, please advice is this unit ok? any odd shape?
Please post the 1 bedroom floor plan , if you still have the brochure with you . Thank you

I have seen this unit. Bad fengshui. It's located at the ground floor corner facing the ramp to the car oark enterance. Every day you will have headlight shining into our unit.

mygeemeel
19-06-13, 23:04
I have seen this unit. Bad fengshui. It's located at the ground floor corner facing the ramp to the car oark enterance. Every day you will have headlight shining into our unit.

Yes. I saw that too. The agent also agreed.

Ringo33
19-06-13, 23:11
Yes. I saw that too. The agent also agreed.


I think its partially below ground so unit will not get sun light.

Ipadbee
20-06-13, 17:34
Thank you so much Ringo33 & mygeemeel
Your comments are precious to me. Please drop me a note if you remember any others cons about this unit.

Ringo33
20-06-13, 17:51
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7486/6vge.jpg
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/374/bhkw.jpg

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4740/tnf5.jpg

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/489/mz9g.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5610/begq.jpg

Ringo33
20-06-13, 18:04
As you can see from the photo, that unit facing is below the pasir panjang hill road and its right near the entrance of guard house. So in the evening you will have car head beams shining into your unit, and you will also hear brake squeaking sound when the go down the ramp.


As you might know that there is only 1 bedder in this project and the reason is because they need to clear some space for ramp to the basement carpark.

Ipadbee
20-06-13, 20:33
Thanks Ringo33 I now have a clear idea of where the unit is positioned and the reasons why it is an odd unit.

Ringo33
20-06-13, 21:37
Thanks Ringo33 I now have a clear idea of where the unit is positioned and the reasons why it is an odd unit.

The model might not do justice to the actually building, if you are really keen, you can do take a look at the site.

this agent has been marketing this property since last year. They must be having problem finding buyer for sure.

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/11283737/for-sale-horizon-residences

Ipadbee
21-06-13, 11:15
The model might not do justice to the actually building, if you are really keen, you can do take a look at the site.

this agent has been marketing this property since last year. They must be having problem finding buyer for sure.

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/11283737/for-sale-horizon-residences
Yes. Same agent. I will spend more time to check other potential property. :doh: