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mcmlxxvi
03-03-10, 12:40
http://i2.propertyguru.com.sg/images/thumb/a/1/1/6/a116e11409651_1_V550.jpg

A Rare Jewels??? :doh:

Developer: TAIPAN INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATES PTE LTD
Property Address: 201 & 203 JALAN PELIKAT
Property Type: 5 STOREYS + ATTIC
Developers' Track Record: ESPADA, LUCIDA, LUMA, BLUWATERS, MURANO, THE CLAYPSO, PLANTINUM EDGE, ATELIER VILLAS, VANADIUM, ATRIUM RESIDENCES
Tenure: FREEHOLD
Total No. of Units: 64 UNITS
Expected T.O.P Date: 31 DECEMBER 2013

Facility (Recreational): SWIMMING POOL, WADING POOL, AIR-CONDITIONED GYM & CHILDREN'S PLAYGROUND
Car Park Lots: 17 LOTS MECHANIZED PARKING & 47 LOTS (Surface carpark inclusive of 2 nos of handicapped carpark lot)
Estimate Maintenance Fee: $150 to $200
Payment Scheme: NORMAL PROGRESSIVE PAYMENT

Condorich
04-03-10, 07:31
A Rare JokeS

mcmlxxvi
04-03-10, 08:05
Interestingly, if my observation is correct, this is the first Fragrance/World Class Land style low-rise development by Novelty.........

Sinclone
04-03-10, 21:55
New Launch Property coming to Hougang/Charlton Area

http://www.propertylaunch.sg/images/primo/logo.jpg

Primo Residences @ Jalan Pelikat

http://www.propertylaunch.sg/images/primo/main.jpg

Launching Very Soon
Register for 1st Priority Private Preview Invitation, Early Bird Discount and Updates

Beautiful Rare Development by the Park
Quiet and Cosy for your Family Well Being
Excellent High Quality finishes few can Compare

64 units of Luxurious Spacious Condo Units
Consist of Spacious 1, 1+Study, 2, 3 units and Penthouses

Affordable Low Quantum Prices...
1 bedroom starting from $5xxk
2 bedroom starting from $7xxk
3 bedroom starting from $1.1mil
Penthouse starting from $950k

Exclusive Freehold development with just 64 units
Located in a Quiet and Cosy residential environment
Bold and Trendy Architectural design
Very nice Layout with Beautiful High Class Interior
Rare Development by the park offering lush serenity and greenery
Peaceful and Relax Harmonious Living Environment
Mins walk to Heart Land Mall and Kovan MRT station
5 mins drive to Serangoon Garden
20 mins drive to Marina Bay Sands Integrated Resort
20 mins drive to Singapore Changi Airport
Within 1 km to Xinghua Pri School and Yuying Sec School
Many Amenities and Eateries within 1 km of Development
Easy access to Major Expressway, CTE
High Quality Finishes and Branded Appliances with every unit
High Capital Appreciation and Rental Yield
Developed by Reputable Developer

Register for preview now
Call 6100 8090 / 8181 1129 / 97999 757 for enquiries
for brochures, floorplans and registration visit www.propertylaunch.sg/Primo%20Residences.php

mcmlxxvi
10-03-10, 08:10
Interestingly, if my observation is correct, this is the first Fragrance/World Class Land style low-rise development by Novelty.........

Oh I correct myself - there is Murano.

sleek
10-03-10, 08:20
Believes they are handling out flyers to traffic along their Serangoon Ave 1 Sales Office. :p

mcmlxxvi
10-03-10, 09:07
Believes they are handling out flyers to traffic along their Serangoon Ave 1 Sales Office. :p

Who marketing it? Huttons?

Last year end I even saw Huttons agents station outside Beacon Heights super ulu nobody around handing flyers. ...

ocoloco79
17-03-10, 14:57
Heard response is good at it is only preview but more than 50% sold. 2 brm phse at less than 1 mil!! The place is really quite quiet and we tried to walk to mrt, which is not reali far. Think it is a good buy for a freehold project! 20 years down the road price should increase and can sell at a profit, hopefully*finger crossed* :)

mcmlxxvi
17-03-10, 16:58
Heard response is good at it is only preview but more than 50% sold. 2 brm phse at less than 1 mil!! The place is really quite quiet and we tried to walk to mrt, which is not reali far. Think it is a good buy for a freehold project! 20 years down the road price should increase and can sell at a profit, hopefully*finger crossed* :)

So you bought it I presume...

ocoloco79
17-03-10, 19:13
yah... but you sounded like it was a wrong choice?:confused:

ocoloco79
19-03-10, 21:52
By the way today I went to the showflat to take a look. Left only 5 units as of today. four penthouses and one 2 bedroom unit left. Those are units without good view. :scared-2:

DC33_2008
19-03-10, 21:58
By the way today I went to the showflat to take a look. Left only 5 units as of today. four penthouses and one 2 bedroom unit left. Those are units without good view. :scared-2:

What type of good view do we get at this place?

ocoloco79
20-03-10, 16:10
pool view? park view? it is beside the park.. My friends all say expensive cos units are small :( but dunno why still sold out..

2824
20-03-10, 21:05
all 64units sold out or vip priew sold out? If all 64 units sold out then it will be quite something given the other alternatives in D19. :eek:


pool view? park view? it is beside the park.. My friends all say expensive cos units are small :( but dunno why still sold out..

ocoloco79
21-03-10, 09:18
No not all sold out, left only 4 penthouses out of 12 penthouses. Other units all sold. So consider good respond ma?

2824
21-03-10, 09:32
wow 60 units sold, that is indeed a good response. :cheers4:

When is the expected TOP for this development?


No not all sold out, left only 4 penthouses out of 12 penthouses. Other units all sold. So consider good respond ma?

ocoloco79
21-03-10, 09:45
It is stated dec 2013, but agent told me it will be much earlier though. I tried walking leisurely to the kovan central and it took abt 5 mins, walk another 3-4 mins to the MRT while you shop at the central. So it is considered good walking distance.

DC33_2008
21-03-10, 09:47
It is a landed property area with new ambience. There is an international school nearby. It is about 8 minutes walk to the MRT stn but with markets, hawker centre, shopping mall, etc.

ocoloco79
22-03-10, 15:26
Actually to be honest, I kind of regretted.. But it is too late unless I am willing to lose 25% of my booking fee. I can't imaging I am actually paying $983.5psf for a 969sqf 2 bedroom penthouse even though it is freehold and not far from MRT.. After much thought it is way overpriced and I should have waited for the market to cool down for a mass condo project.. The price should drop by next year and stabilised at a lower psf range.. Today's pricing is simply ridiculous and will not sustain! Heart pain and bleeding....:banghead:

ay123
22-03-10, 17:16
Actually to be honest, I kind of regretted.. But it is too late unless I am willing to lose 25% of my booking fee. I can't imaging I am actually paying $983.5psf for a 969sqf 2 bedroom penthouse even though it is freehold and not far from MRT.. After much thought it is way overpriced and I should have waited for the market to cool down for a mass condo project.. The price should drop by next year and stabilised at a lower psf range.. Today's pricing is simply ridiculous and will not sustain! Heart pain and bleeding....:banghead:

believe in your choice, since you have committed you should have faith in your choice. your price is below $1k psf wat and it is freehold. i think is quite reasonable price. looking at today's market every new project can easily hit $900psf and is LH & mass mkt. looking at the response of this project i think u did not make a wrong choice. once this project is fully sold, you will see the result......not to worry CHEERS :cheers1:

DC33_2008
22-03-10, 17:32
Actually to be honest, I kind of regretted.. But it is too late unless I am willing to lose 25% of my booking fee. I can't imaging I am actually paying $983.5psf for a 969sqf 2 bedroom penthouse even though it is freehold and not far from MRT.. After much thought it is way overpriced and I should have waited for the market to cool down for a mass condo project.. The price should drop by next year and stabilised at a lower psf range.. Today's pricing is simply ridiculous and will not sustain! Heart pain and bleeding....:banghead:

It is not too bad! Look at the bright side. Which facing is your unit?

ocoloco79
22-03-10, 22:12
my unit facing is south east. it is facing another unit in front, got pool view and park view, but pool and park is not thoise big kind lor..

sleek
22-03-10, 22:20
At least own Penthouse right? ;)

Anyway, Residences Botanique already pass $1.3Kpsf liao. :cool:

Condorich
22-03-10, 23:07
my unit facing is south east. it is facing another unit in front, got pool view and park view, but pool and park is not thoise big kind lor..

Got park view... that's a premium.

Near MRT, another premium

Got small pool view.. better than nothing.

FH... less $200 psf over what you paid... so effectively, you are paying somewhere around $780 psf for a near MRT project. A good choice if you compare it with other LH developments launched after Jan 2010. The difference will be clear after 10 to 20 years.

Plus Nearer to CBD... that's a winner.

For self stay... why bother... just sit on that pot of gold until retirement. Milk the cash cow then. Unless it is sick. Just be prepared for the margin calls or the interest rate hikes when it comes, if ever. Otherwise, earn your buck to keep your roof. Gd Luck!

bargain hunter
23-03-10, 01:47
you still have a few weeks to think right? lose 12k if you decide not to exercise your option, or simply exercise it as many others have advised you to. there is still time, so just sit back, calm down and think clearly what you want. balance the 12k against all the risks and benefits.





Actually to be honest, I kind of regretted.. But it is too late unless I am willing to lose 25% of my booking fee. I can't imaging I am actually paying $983.5psf for a 969sqf 2 bedroom penthouse even though it is freehold and not far from MRT.. After much thought it is way overpriced and I should have waited for the market to cool down for a mass condo project.. The price should drop by next year and stabilised at a lower psf range.. Today's pricing is simply ridiculous and will not sustain! Heart pain and bleeding....:banghead:

jlrx
23-03-10, 03:01
Actually to be honest, I kind of regretted.. But it is too late unless I am willing to lose 25% of my booking fee. I can't imaging I am actually paying $983.5psf for a 969sqf 2 bedroom penthouse even though it is freehold and not far from MRT.. After much thought it is way overpriced and I should have waited for the market to cool down for a mass condo project.. The price should drop by next year and stabilised at a lower psf range.. Today's pricing is simply ridiculous and will not sustain! Heart pain and bleeding....:banghead:

"wait" is the most dangerous word when buying properties.

The most interesting thing about this game called "PROPERTIES" is that the fools become geniuses, and geniuses end up as fools.

NEVER TRY TO TIME THE MARKET!

In front of PROPERTISM, we have to be humble and admit that there is no way we can know the future.

The only thing we know is that property prices always go up in the long term, so JUST BUY IT!

Read this inspiring story of 34 "fools" who bought a property at the worst possible moment, just before the market crashed in 1985, and lost 38% of their investment. :doh:

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=82902&postcount=12

Condorich
23-03-10, 08:40
It is a simple decision... if you need some objective criteria... just use the take up rate...

25% sold, think over 21 days
50% sold, think over 14 days
75% sold, think over 7 days

ALL SOLD OUT???....what is left to think about? The only thing to consider is affordability which ought to be sorted out prior to getting the option. Unless you have problems with loans, you have that option to exercise within 3 weeks. Gd Luck!

DC33_2008
23-03-10, 08:58
It is quite a nice environment. Better than those so close to the main road with the noise and dust. This place has most of the things a famly need. They have very good laksa, teochew fish noodle and wanton noodle at the market. Chin Chow and Soya bean drinks store selling at amazing cheap price of 30 cents. YOu can even take a direct coach to KL just at the bus terminal. What more to ask for!

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 09:01
Got park view... that's a premium.

Near MRT, another premium

Got small pool view.. better than nothing.

FH... less $200 psf over what you paid... so effectively, you are paying somewhere around $780 psf for a near MRT project. A good choice if you compare it with other LH developments launched after Jan 2010. The difference will be clear after 10 to 20 years.

Plus Nearer to CBD... that's a winner.

For self stay... why bother... just sit on that pot of gold until retirement. Milk the cash cow then. Unless it is sick. Just be prepared for the margin calls or the interest rate hikes when it comes, if ever. Otherwise, earn your buck to keep your roof. Gd Luck!

Hi, Thanks for the insights, btw why less $200psf over what i paid? Dun get it leh...:beats-me-man:

ay123
23-03-10, 09:22
Hi, Thanks for the insights, btw why less $200psf over what i paid? Dun get it leh...:beats-me-man:

with all experts' view. now you should rest assure u did not make a wrong choice.......

Condorich
23-03-10, 11:13
$200 psf is just a rule of thumb for the price difference for FH versus LH, some would use $100 psf. No right answer but there's really a difference between LH and FH pricing right? I use the range of $100 to $200 psf as the premium.

which in your case, $200k extra for that FH status. What is a $200k after 10 to 20 years? When LH 99 is depreciating and FH is safe. Inflation will push up your $200k. Remember to hold long long and all you need is another willing buyer.

Gd Luck! :)

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 13:01
Thank you so much experts!!! I had sleepless nights and had also pressured my hubby to give up 25% booking fee cos I am worried that in future the loss will be greater. Now I felt much better and peace to my family again. I will keep it, thank you!!!!

gfoo
23-03-10, 13:43
In the grand scheme of things, $12000 is nothing really, think of it as a fee for one to buy time to decide.

Have you driven round your surroundings, walked around a bit to see the environment during work week and weekends?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1487&stc=1&d=1269322674

First, for own stay properties you must always always be very comfortable with the area that you will be staying in - the traffic, the environment, the amenities etc. Do not get taken in by agents until you really check out the area for yourself.

If you're comfortable with it, then look at the pricing. Go to Streetsine.com or other places to get a historical benchmark of prices of properties close to your location. From this, you will be able to tell if you are paying at the peak, or median, or below value. Find out how much premium you are paying, then discount the historical median PSF for the area. That is the amount of money you risk in a downturn.

If you can afford that gap, and this is for own stay and you love the locality, then by all means there is never a wrong choice in such scenarios.

Blue
23-03-10, 14:17
Just to share my personal experiences, when I bgt my first property in D19 during 2003 (7 years back), it was at a peak. Thereafter, market correction, and prices went down by as much as 17%. I thought it was a foolish act and will be stucked with it till I RIP. But just last year, I sold it at a proft of 60%!!! If I have waited and sell this year, profit margin will be 70%!!! :banghead:

So think on the bright side, maybe a few months / years down the road, you won't even find a private property below $1000 psf or $1M. Property prices will always go up in the long term amidst short term corrections. The price gap between public housing and private housing will widen further given our government is more focused to protect public housing prices to make them affordable for newly weds / new graduates who do not have the income / savings capacity for private housing.

Due to increasing number of working parents and graduates + influx of foreigners. On the average, most household can make >$8K per month after working for several years. Therefore, with CPF, for them to service a housing instalment of $4K per mth is going to become popular. These translates to purchases of above $1M properties at normalised interest rate of 3 to 4%.

In fact, I think our public housing is still lowly priced. Most of my friends staying in HDB don't even need to use cash to service HDB loan. CPF itself is enough to pay for the monthly instalment. There will come a time when people need to wake up to face reality. The reality of paying cash (or one may call it a permanent pay-cut) to service housing loan if they want to stay in private housing vs public housing.:2cents:

So don't waste your deposit, go ahead to complete the purchase, then just need to hold onto your balls and don't let them slip. ;)

Condorich
23-03-10, 15:43
balls and boobs....

Business Times - 25 Nov 2009


Buying a home: freehold vs leasehold
NICHOLAS MAK examines how both tenures perform in rising and falling markets as well as in collective sales THE question of whether to own freehold or leasehold property seems a perennial one, with pros and cons shifting with market cycles and new trends. Here, we examine the issue from the perspective of both a home owner and investor, and see how both tenures perform in rising and falling markets as well as in collective sales.

The chief attraction of 99-year leasehold property is that it is typically priced lower than a comparable freehold property. As a result, they are popular with HDB upgraders as entry-level private properties. Most mass-market homes are 99-year leasehold condominiums, with prices ranging from $500 per sq ft to $900 per sq ft. A typical family-size apartment could cost anything from $600,000 to $1.2 million.
For investors, leasehold properties usually offer a higher rental yield because of their lower capital cost. However, the higher yield merely compensates the owner for the decaying lease.

One of the more apparent disadvantages of owning a 99-year leasehold property is that the length of the lease is contracting daily. All else being equal, this would result in falling property value. However, certain external factors could slow the decline in value, such as if the property is sought after by tenants or buyers. This could be due to a prime location, improving infrastructure (such as a proposed MRT station nearby), or good amenities or popular schools in the vicinity.

When it comes to collective sales, there are usually fewer opportunities for them with 99-year homes. One reason is that many of them are still relatively new and in good condition. Thus, the owners do not feel any urgency to sell their homes collectively.

A more pertinent reason is that the premium payable to the government to top up a 99-year lease is quite high, based on the existing formula. And since developers factor the premium as part of the total land cost, the higher the premium the less the owner of the ageing leasehold would get in any collective sale.

As such, collective sales are not attractive to many owners of 99-year leasehold apartments unless the expense of maintaining their ageing properties are so high that a collective sale becomes the cheaper alternative.

A key benefit of owning freehold real estate is that the land value does not generally depreciate in the long term. Although all properties are subject to market fluctuations, the price of freehold land tends to be more stable than that of leasehold land over time. However, the value of a freehold property could still decrease over time due to the depreciating value of the ageing building. Over the long term, while the value of freehold land may increase or remain little changed, the value of the building would decline.

One factor that supports the value of freehold land in Singapore is its scarcity. Since all the land sold by the government is leasehold, the amount of freehold land would not increase. In fact, it might shrink over time if the government makes acquisitions of such land.
Another advantage of owning a freehold property is the potential of a windfall from a collective sale. If the value of the freehold land increases while the value of the ageing building declines, it could reach a stage where the redevelopment value of the property is worth more than the utility value of the existing building. As a result, the property owners may find a collective sale of their property to a developer to be highly profitable.

Some developers looking to acquire residential land for development may also prefer freehold land to ageing 99-year leasehold property because freehold land would not require the payment of a hefty premium for extending the lease.

For all these reasons, freehold residential properties are generally priced higher than 99-year leaseholds. The price range of freehold non-landed properties is also wider than that of comparable leasehold properties. Depending on the location, freehold property prices could vary from $600 psf to $4,000 psf or more. The majority of high-end residential properties are freehold.

For investors, one disadvantage of freehold property is the lower rental yield, a function of the higher cost of the property.
Also, while freehold properties have a higher likelihood of a collective sale than their leasehold counterparts, that can prove to be a double-edged sword. The property boom of 2005 to 2008 whipped up a collective sale frenzy. But some property owners who sold for a windfall found they could not get a replacement home in the same location from their proceeds. As the collective sale boom was powered by surging property prices, by the time en-bloc property sellers received their proceeds, the prices of comparable replacement homes would have moved out of reach.
Now, we look at the price performance of freehold and leasehold properties. Although freehold properties are usually priced higher than their leasehold counterparts, their rate of appreciation does not always outperform.

There were two property cycles between end-1998 and mid-2009. The first market boom, which started at end-1998 and ended in mid-2000, was a bottom-up price recovery. Demand started in the mass-market sector and moved up to the mid-tier and finally the high-end segment.
During this 18-month period, the average price of 99-year condominiums rose faster than that of freehold homes. The average price of freehold condominiums grew by 38.2 per cent, while the average price of 99-year leasehold condominiums surged by 46.2 per cent.
But on the way down, leasehold home prices also fell more steeply. On the downcycle between mid-2000 and the first half of 2004, the average price of leasehold condominiums fell 26.1 per cent, steeper than the freehold price decline of 17.6 per cent.

The most recent boom that lasted four years from mid-2004 to mid-2008 started with high-end property and gradually filtered down to the mass market.

Even when the mass-market sector started to pick up in 2007, the momentum in the high-end segment did not let up. As a result, freehold condominium prices jumped by an impressive 64.7 per cent on average, while the average leasehold property price rose some 50 per cent.
When the property market here started to contract in mid-2008 due to the global financial crisis, freehold condominium prices fell 26.5 per cent year on year, just slightly more than 99-year leaseholds, which dropped by 23.8 per cent.

What this study shows is that if the upswing in the property market is bottom-up, leasehold condominiums could outperform freehold ones. Conversely, if the boom is top down, freehold condominiums would deliver superior results. However, this study also illustrates that the faster the rise, the harder the fall. So in a top-down property boom, owners of freehold condominiums who had enjoyed a sharper price appreciation should be nimble enough to lock in their gains before the downtrend sets in.

In comparing freehold and leasehold residential properties, there is no conclusive evidence to show that one is better than the other. Ultimately, the decision boils down to budget and preference.

can talk so much with this kind of conclusion? Feel like kanna lectured!

:tongue3:

The writer is a real estate lecturer at Ngee Ann Polytechnic



Copyright © 2010 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.

jitkiat
23-03-10, 15:48
Price psf is not excessive as Casa Merah 2br already asking for >900psf and unlikely u are buying at the market peak. The key thing u should ask is whether you can afford it. Check you liabilities (how many children, how many cars, credit card loan) vs family income/asset (likelihood of better income etc, inheritance, other assets) ... if border line case (e.g. family income 8k but borrowing 800k with lots of liabilities) may be buying LH99 150-200psf less is a more prudent choice.

gfoo
23-03-10, 15:54
The problem with today's so-called FH apartment property is that they take 2 semi Ds, tear it down, and build 30-50 units on it and call it freehold. After you input plot ratio potential, and/or the actual amount of freehold land you strata share, I would rather go for old FH condos with low plot ratios and wide tracts of land (ie covered carparks), or stick with condos with excellent location regardless of tenure.

Take landed for e.g... once upon a time is was sold on a basis of land area, with built up area playing a small component. Today it's entirely advertised on built up area.

Reporter
23-03-10, 16:13
Thank you so much experts!!! I had sleepless nights and had also pressured my hubby to give up 25% booking fee cos I am worried that in future the loss will be greater. Now I felt much better and peace to my family again. I will keep it, thank you!!!!
Nobody here can tell the future.

Did you pay higher than low-mid-level CSR's $1,306 psf? If not, I believe you have made the right choice in buying a home for your family and yourself.

1˝ months later, City Square Residences has a nëw hďgh of $1,306 psf!


City Square Residences
Address ........................ psf ............... Area ........ Price ......... Contract Date
6 Kitchener Link #13-07 .... $1,306 psf .... 570 sqft .... $745,000 .... 9 Mar 10

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 17:42
Nobody here can tell the future.

Did you pay higher than low-mid-level CSR's $1,306 psf? If not, I believe you have made the right choice in buying a home for your family and yourself.

City square residence is considered prime district ma, of course expensive! Honesty I m reali grateful to you guys:)

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 17:57
Price psf is not excessive as Casa Merah 2br already asking for >900psf and unlikely u are buying at the market peak. The key thing u should ask is whether you can afford it. Check you liabilities (how many children, how many cars, credit card loan) vs family income/asset (likelihood of better income etc, inheritance, other assets) ... if border line case (e.g. family income 8k but borrowing 800k with lots of liabilities) may be buying LH99 150-200psf less is a more prudent choice.

We are actually HDB upgraders. Not sure of we reali can sustain in terms of liabilities in the long run. Initially my budget is $600K for min 2 brm, anything above is considered out of reach to me. I had been searching around for sometime but nothing matched my budget and price kept increasing like crazy. So we increase our budget to $800K max which could be a little tight on us, but it is easier to find. Then suddenly for dunno what reason we actually committed to this particular unit after the agents sweet talk. Both my hubby and I are civil servants with monthly household income of 10K plus abit only. Our liability would be our HDB flat loan at abt $800+ per month deducted from cpf, plus car loan at abt $600. No other liabilities unless you consider giving parents abt $800 a month is counted as one. Our current monthly savings is abt 3 to 4K per month, which can fluctuate...Once we paid the initial 20% downpayment in cash, we become poor le:scared-5:

Condorich
23-03-10, 18:07
We are actually HDB upgraders. Not sure of we reali can sustain in terms of liabilities in the long run. Initially my budget is $600K for min 2 brm, anything above is considered out of reach to me. I had been searching around for sometime but nothing matched my budget and price kept increasing like crazy. So we increase our budget to $800K max which could be a little tight on us, but it is easier to find. Then suddenly for dunno what reason we actually committed to this particular unit after the agents sweet talk. Both my hubby and I are civil servants with monthly household income of 10K plus abit only. Our liability would be our HDB flat loan at abt $800+ per month deducted from cpf, plus car loan at abt $600. No other liabilities unless you consider giving parents abt $800 a month is counted as one. Our current monthly savings is abt 3 to 4K per month, which can fluctuate...Once we paid the initial 20% downpayment in cash, we become poor le:scared-5:


Assuming monthly combined income of 10k... it can be quite risky for both of you.. work your sums right.. should have at least $50k or $100k cash after the 20% to be on the safe side... unless you have fairy god mothers to bail you out in case of emergencies.

I presume that you have a HDB to finance.... the sums could be right if you sell your HDB and transfer the loan liability to the new purchase. However, you have to bear with the rental cost for 2 to 3 years before TOP. Not to mention reno expense.

Think carefully.. one wrong move and you could be trapped for life. As always.... buy within your means... a fire sale is a costly mistake.

ay123
23-03-10, 18:13
We are actually HDB upgraders. Not sure of we reali can sustain in terms of liabilities in the long run. Initially my budget is $600K for min 2 brm, anything above is considered out of reach to me. I had been searching around for sometime but nothing matched my budget and price kept increasing like crazy. So we increase our budget to $800K max which could be a little tight on us, but it is easier to find. Then suddenly for dunno what reason we actually committed to this particular unit after the agents sweet talk. Both my hubby and I are civil servants with monthly household income of 10K plus abit only. Our liability would be our HDB flat loan at abt $800+ per month deducted from cpf, plus car loan at abt $600. No other liabilities unless you consider giving parents abt $800 a month is counted as one. Our current monthly savings is abt 3 to 4K per month, which can fluctuate...Once we paid the initial 20% downpayment in cash, we become poor le:scared-5:

i think u should keep yr purchase. maybe few years down the road u will be thankful to the agent who pushed u. thou i am not an expert but i do believe that property price will increase in long run. furthermore yours is a freehold. i believe when u decide to put down the downpayment u must have like it in the first place since u are buying for own stay. trust yr first instinct and keep it. don worry too much and have sleepless nite. buying a pte property is everyone's dream. now u have realise yrs....so be HAPPY!! CHEERS!!!

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 18:14
Assuming monthly combined income of 10k... it can be quite risky for both of you.. work your sums right.. should have at least $50k or $100k cash after the 20% to be on the safe side... unless you have fairy god mothers to bail you out in case of emergencies.

I presume that you have a HDB to finance.... the sums could be right if you sell your HDB and transfer the loan liability to the new purchase. However, you have to bear with the rental cost for 2 to 3 years before TOP. Not to mention reno expense.

Think carefully.. one wrong move and you could be trapped for life. As always.... buy within your means... a fire sale is a costly mistake.

Agree on the risky part. We are thinking of renting out our 5 room hdb instead of selling it away. It seems more worthwhile to do so.. That is why I am worried these few days.. alot of things on mind.. however after hearing all experts view, I decided to keep it and try to hold it as long as I can...

cheerful
23-03-10, 18:17
We are actually HDB upgraders.... Both my hubby and I are civil servants with monthly household income of 10K plus abit only. Our liability would be our HDB flat loan at abt $800+ per month deducted from cpf, plus car loan at abt $600. No other liabilities unless you consider giving parents abt $800 a month is counted as one. Our current monthly savings is abt 3 to 4K per month, which can fluctuate...Once we paid the initial 20% downpayment in cash, we become poor le:scared-5:

Hmm ... your hdb not yet fully repaid coz the installment only $800 correct? So using cpf for both hdb (for any balance if keeping it) plus the condo? If you sell your hdb maybe not so tight - would that help?

chestnut
23-03-10, 18:22
Agree on the risky part. We are thinking of renting out our 5 room hdb instead of selling it away. It seems more worthwhile to do so.. That is why I am worried these few days.. alot of things on mind.. however after hearing all experts view, I decided to keep it and try to hold it as long as I can...

You worry too much. Reason is because you have not done your h/w.

Work out how much is your monthly installment - assume 800k loan with 2% interest - works out to be 3k.

Work out how much cpf you can use.

Work out if you rent out your hdb, how much income you will get (based on todays' rate and worst case senario.

Once you have worked out all this, you will find that you have no problem in paying for your house.

The only thing left for you now is to save as much as you can - in the event the property drops and banks do a recall of the loan and you are able to fund them. During the down turn, we were fortunate that the bank did not get us to top up. But be prepared for such events.

Buying a property should not give you too much stress if not it is not worth it. Stress will be overcome when you work out your sums - then things become clearer.

Condorich
23-03-10, 18:25
Hmm ... your hdb not yet fully repaid coz the installment only $800 correct? So using cpf for both hdb (for any balance if keeping it) plus the condo? If you sell your hdb maybe not so tight - would that help?

Yup.. that is wiser...

Anyway good that you share...

Normally, HDB upgraders would upgrade after that existing HDB is fully repaid or the arrears is $100k or less... with corresponding cash of $100k or above.

If you can afford the downpayment in cash... since CPF is already tied up to finance HDB or dried up.. you should be alright.

However if you are too stretched.... it is not wise...

If you are comfortable to share your outstanding HDB loan amount, it is easier for us to give some assessment. However, it is really your call and it depends on your risk appetite.

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 18:52
We made a mistake by investing part of our cpf balances to fortress A fund which is making a loss now. hence our cpf do not have the min sum of 60K hence we cannot use cpf to fund the condo. However after TOP or slightly later, we will be able to accumulate enough min sum so that we can use cpf to fund both condo and hdb together. But still have to top up with cash. We bought our hdb 5 years ago, paying only $800 per month with 30yrs loan, so confirm have high outstanding loan. We are very gullible, as this is our first time buying pte property and we realli know nothing about properties. We actually do not even know that interest rate is consider so low now and can rise as high as 4%. We did our homework by calculating at current low interest rate of slightly lower than 2% and thought that this is the norm. So stupid! We also didn't know that we need to get a banker to assess our financial status before we purchase our property and we did it by ourselves using simple maths, which is ALL wrong. When we begin to know the real facts slowly, we panicked. we calculate all over again and realised that it could be tight, but we can still manage by sacrificing leisure. But we were hesitant on losing our booking fee.. Now upon hearing that it is not a wrong buy, I do not wish to give it up. We may struggle abit. Hope that there will never be margin calls... if not DIE!

bargain hunter
23-03-10, 19:25
actually, i feel that for civil servants earning combined more than 10k salary, you shouldn't have problems financing this purchase. depending on circumstances, it may be tight, but the options are there. i assumed your jobs are very safe even if pay increase from hereon is minimal. :)


We made a mistake by investing part of our cpf balances to fortress A fund which is making a loss now. hence our cpf do not have the min sum of 60K hence we cannot use cpf to fund the condo. However after TOP or slightly later, we will be able to accumulate enough min sum so that we can use cpf to fund both condo and hdb together. But still have to top up with cash. We bought our hdb 5 years ago, paying only $800 per month with 30yrs loan, so confirm have high outstanding loan. We are very gullible, as this is our first time buying pte property and we realli know nothing about properties. We actually do not even know that interest rate is consider so low now and can rise as high as 4%. We did our homework by calculating at current low interest rate of slightly lower than 2% and thought that this is the norm. So stupid! We also didn't know that we need to get a banker to assess our financial status before we purchase our property and we did it by ourselves using simple maths, which is ALL wrong. When we begin to know the real facts slowly, we panicked. we calculate all over again and realised that it could be tight, but we can still manage by sacrificing leisure. But we were hesitant on losing our booking fee.. Now upon hearing that it is not a wrong buy, I do not wish to give it up. We may struggle abit. Hope that there will never be margin calls... if not DIE!

jitkiat
23-03-10, 19:37
Agree with bargain hunter, both civil servants then the risk is lower. Selling away HDB near TOP at very good price might reduce your risk further. But you must have enough INSURANCE coverage !!! Buy 5-10y term insurance for both of you for accident, PTD, critical illness (min 300-600k depends on whether u have children), health / hospitalization & mortgage insurance is a must.

mantrix
23-03-10, 19:41
We made a mistake by investing part of our cpf balances to fortress A fund which is making a loss now. hence our cpf do not have the min sum of 60K hence we cannot use cpf to fund the condo. However after TOP or slightly later, we will be able to accumulate enough min sum so that we can use cpf to fund both condo and hdb together. But still have to top up with cash. We bought our hdb 5 years ago, paying only $800 per month with 30yrs loan, so confirm have high outstanding loan. We are very gullible, as this is our first time buying pte property and we realli know nothing about properties. We actually do not even know that interest rate is consider so low now and can rise as high as 4%. We did our homework by calculating at current low interest rate of slightly lower than 2% and thought that this is the norm. So stupid! We also didn't know that we need to get a banker to assess our financial status before we purchase our property and we did it by ourselves using simple maths, which is ALL wrong. When we begin to know the real facts slowly, we panicked. we calculate all over again and realised that it could be tight, but we can still manage by sacrificing leisure. But we were hesitant on losing our booking fee.. Now upon hearing that it is not a wrong buy, I do not wish to give it up. We may struggle abit. Hope that there will never be margin calls... if not DIE!

how about using CPF to pay for your monthly instalments? There is no minimum to that (apart from your OA existing balance) - that should lessen your burden monthly

Condorich
23-03-10, 19:45
We made a mistake by investing part of our cpf balances to fortress A fund which is making a loss now. hence our cpf do not have the min sum of 60K hence we cannot use cpf to fund the condo. However after TOP or slightly later, we will be able to accumulate enough min sum so that we can use cpf to fund both condo and hdb together. But still have to top up with cash. We bought our hdb 5 years ago, paying only $800 per month with 30yrs loan, so confirm have high outstanding loan. We are very gullible, as this is our first time buying pte property and we realli know nothing about properties. We actually do not even know that interest rate is consider so low now and can rise as high as 4%. We did our homework by calculating at current low interest rate of slightly lower than 2% and thought that this is the norm. So stupid! We also didn't know that we need to get a banker to assess our financial status before we purchase our property and we did it by ourselves using simple maths, which is ALL wrong. When we begin to know the real facts slowly, we panicked. we calculate all over again and realised that it could be tight, but we can still manage by sacrificing leisure. But we were hesitant on losing our booking fee.. Now upon hearing that it is not a wrong buy, I do not wish to give it up. We may struggle abit. Hope that there will never be margin calls... if not DIE!

Dear ocoloco79

I presume you are born in the year 1979. I read your earlier post that you have set aside the cash for the full 20% for this purchase. So you+partner are able to buy if the loan is approved by the banks. If you want to exercise the option, do get the loan sorted out first before executing it. Which means loan approval from BANKS!

Next, if you have high outstanding HDB loan.. why did you commit to a new purchase when you could use the cash to settle the outstanding or to wait until prices correct.. no harm waiting at the side lines.... bite only when the prices are attractive.

Interest rates can go higher than 4%... nothing to compared to top up calls by banks or loan suspension.

12k is nothing compared to 120k or above 240k losses... beware... they do happen.

I am inclined to advise you to consult your financial planners on your affordability. My gut feeling is they would advise you to let your option lapse simply by virtue of affordability.. sorry to say that and its not that I look down on you or your partner. But if you have rich parents to fall back on... go ahead. If they depend on you, think doubly hard.

You might want to consider some scenarios of
1. Either one of your is out of job, call it quits
2. New arrival babies
3. Aged parents falling sick
4. No rental from HDB
5. Severe Market Correction
6. Others

A good buy is only a good buy if you and your partner can afford it.
A good buy is a bad buy the moment installments are defaulted.

I wish you GOOOOOD LUUUUUCK! :scared-4:

gfoo
23-03-10, 20:49
i'll prob get flamed but i am the eternal pessimist.

based on your situ, i would not go ahead with this. $1k psf for a ph in this location, apt status, is too risky for my appetite

always remember that in an upmarket like now, everyone is a guru and everyone is proven right

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 21:00
Yes, you are very observant:) .I am born in 1979. Bank loan has been approved already. I will be meeting the banker tomorrow and I will seek his advise. After hearing so much from the experts, I realli hope that I can keep the property. But if the risk of servicing is high, I may reali give this dream a miss. I thought of paying the hdb in full, but since it is so cheap at $800 per month, we decided to continue the loan.

Possible scenarios of
1. Either one of your is out of job, call it quits
In our employment sector, there is always shortage of manpower and we are performing OK, so i pressume we are quite safe in that sense.
2. New arrival babies
Not possible, we do not want kids.
3. Aged parents falling sick
Possible, but our siblings can share.
4. No rental from HDB
Unlikely, if we are renting cheap. 5 room hdb should fetch at least 1.5K?But we can break even at 1K rental to cover monthly payment.
5. Severe Market Correction
Biggest risk would be margin call. but we only borrow 763000, not much compared to many other property owners, so this can only happens if the economy is hit very very hard?

august
23-03-10, 21:03
buying for investment or ownstay?

can always sub-sale it out, no need forfeit deposit.. or wait until TOP and try to rent it out ~

edwinleeap
23-03-10, 21:05
You can consider staying in your HDB and renting out the condo. When things become more affordable, you may then do the reverse. If you can afford the 20%, you always have the option of selling when you find the going tough.

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 21:10
You can consider staying in your HDB and renting out the condo. When things become more affordable, you may then do the reverse. If you can afford the 20%, you always have the option of selling when you find the going tough.

I think it will be difficult to rent out without making a loss.. We bought a penthouse with only 2 brms. Who will be in the right mind to pay $5K for rental? Max I think can only fetch 3K.. That is why I prefer to rent out hdb.. This purchase is bought for own stay...

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 21:19
i'll prob get flamed but i am the eternal pessimist.

based on your situ, i would not go ahead with this. $1k psf for a ph in this location, apt status, is too risky for my appetite

always remember that in an upmarket like now, everyone is a guru and everyone is proven right

May i know why an apartment status is inferior? You mean condo more superior?

gfoo
23-03-10, 21:20
I think it will be difficult to rent out without making a loss.. We bought a penthouse with only 2 brms. Who will be in the right mind to pay $5K for rental? Max I think can only fetch 3K.. That is why I prefer to rent out hdb.. This purchase is bought for own stay...

2 bedder PH? how big is your PES?

august
23-03-10, 21:22
We made a mistake by investing part of our cpf balances to fortress A fund which is making a loss now. hence our cpf do not have the min sum of 60K hence we cannot use cpf to fund the condo.

i thought for property purchase there is no need to set aside amt in ordinary a/c? sorry just asking bcos i not familiar with paying with CPF...

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 21:29
i thought for property purchase there is no need to set aside amt in ordinary a/c? sorry just asking bcos i not familiar with paying with CPF...

Hi, for my case is different as this is my 2nd property so there is a min sum..

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 21:32
2 bedder PH? how big is your PES?

What is PES? I only know that the whole unit is 969sft, non livable space include balcony, a roof attic and a jazcuzi..The exact dimentions are not stated in the brochure so i dunno..

taggy
23-03-10, 21:38
Hi, for my case is different as this is my 2nd property so there is a min sum..

i m stating the obvious (most salaried ppl already noe this ;)):

minimum sum can be make up of ordinary acct + special account. So, if special account have 30k liao, then ordinary acct only need another <30k to make up the minimum sum.

If between husband and wife, one of them have higher special acct amt, then use that guy's cpf for 2 properties first... And also switch to make the 2nd person to pay higher percentage to the hdb loan.....

teddybear
23-03-10, 21:40
City Square Residence is not considered prime district. Luckily you didn't buy there thinking that it is prime and paying a 'prime' price...


City square residence is considered prime district ma, of course expensive! Honesty I m reali grateful to you guys:)

gfoo
23-03-10, 21:48
May i know why an apartment status is inferior? You mean condo more superior?

not necessarily, but the trend of new launch apartment status max out the plot ratio, and then some what with the planters/bay/balconies. Unlike apartments of yesteryear, today's apartments take 2 semi Ds, tear em down, and build 30-40 apartments over that same land area, throw in a small pool either on the roof or at the car park area, add in a small gym, and charge condo prices.

not all apartments are like that tho. Ola in Mountbatten is apartment status, but has a huge huge pool and its plot ratio is not maximized with a lot of room to grow

Kenshinto80
23-03-10, 21:50
I think it will be difficult to rent out without making a loss.. We bought a penthouse with only 2 brms. Who will be in the right mind to pay $5K for rental? Max I think can only fetch 3K.. That is why I prefer to rent out hdb.. This purchase is bought for own stay...

Haha...Penthouse ar...cool! Put up the floorplan to share lah. :)

I don't think you should be too worried about the financing. You will be rewarded in the long run. Many people in 2008 were saying property prices will crash and all waiting for firesales....and look what happen. With the IR opening up and helping to boost tourism and hotel industry as well as the world wide economy slowly recovering.....the chances of falling prices in the long term are low.

If land is so easily available in Singapore, then why are apartments get taller and smaller these days? And in future, at the same price, most likely you can only purchase a smaller unit.

cheerful
23-03-10, 21:51
Possible scenarios of
1. Either one of your is out of job, call it quits
In our employment sector, there is always shortage of manpower and we are performing OK, so i pressume we are quite safe in that sense.
2. New arrival babies
Not possible, we do not want kids.
3. Aged parents falling sick
Possible, but our siblings can share.
4. No rental from HDB
Unlikely, if we are renting cheap. 5 room hdb should fetch at least 1.5K?But we can break even at 1K rental to cover monthly payment.
5. Severe Market Correction
Biggest risk would be margin call. but we only borrow 763000, not much compared to many other property owners, so this can only happens if the economy is hit very very hard?


Well, you appear to know what you're doing although some of your posts don't seem to reconcile with one another ... pardon me for asking this, but are you doing some tests here or juz wanna get some assurance huh?

About pt 4, so you did consider renting out the hdb & do know a little about the mkt lah? On the other hand, you r also rite to question who would rent this pte at $5k .... :)

gfoo
23-03-10, 21:52
What is PES? I only know that the whole unit is 969sft, non livable space include balcony, a roof attic and a jazcuzi..The exact dimentions are not stated in the brochure so i dunno..

ie what proportion of your 969sqft place is actual livable area excluding roof attic/jacuzzi/balcony?

Note that during the downturn in 08/early 09, banks only value PES area at half livable PSF, and that is a big reason why traditionally penthouses with big PES have significantly lower PSF rates.

My advice is to use this forum's search function, and filter 2008 posts and have a slow read. today's exuberance must always be weighted and balanced with the fear and true stories of how banks treated fellow forummers during the downturn. Have 2 sides of the story, then make your own decision

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 22:06
Well, you appear to know what you're doing although some of your posts don't seem to reconcile with one another ... pardon me for asking this, but are you doing some tests here or juz wanna get some assurance huh?

About pt 4, so you did consider renting out the hdb & do know a little about the mkt lah? On the other hand, you r also rite to question who would rent this pte at $5k .... :)

Erm I dun understand what you mean by test? Of course i need assurance if i am on the right track or not, if not I won't be so stressed! Still have time to pull out before my 20% cash is in.

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 22:12
Haha...Penthouse ar...cool! Put up the floorplan to share lah. :)

I don't think you should be too worried about the financing. You will be rewarded in the long run. Many people in 2008 were saying property prices will crash and all waiting for firesales....and look what happen. With the IR opening up and helping to boost tourism and hotel industry as well as the world wide economy slowly recovering.....the chances of falling prices in the long term are low.

If land is so easily available in Singapore, then why are apartments get taller and smaller these days? And in future, at the same price, most likely you can only purchase a smaller unit.

This is the floor plan..

gfoo
23-03-10, 22:18
deja vu - layout almost exactly the same as Buckley Residences i was about to buy in Jan 09 - but wife found it a little too small sighz. nice layout

cheerful
23-03-10, 22:24
Erm I dun understand what you mean by test? Of course i need assurance if i am on the right track or not, if not I won't be so stressed! Still have time to pull out before my 20% cash is in.

So have you gotten the assurance that you want from this thread? Or feeling more confused? By the general standard (civil svc = plastic rice bowl), some already said you shld be quite safe. But like what some other here have also advised, search through more sources within & beyond this forum.

chestnut already pointed out mah, the anxiety or 'stress' could be due to the lack of homework (which does not equate to getting assurance) ............ maybe it's still not too late to do leh?

cheerful
23-03-10, 22:27
deja vu - layout almost exactly the same as Buckley Residences i was about to buy in Jan 09 - but wife found it a little too small sighz. nice layout

oso somewat similar to poshgrove east which i missed ... sama sama apt kinda :) but PGE is condo status lah, but with external staircase (wat if it rains?!!) ...

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 22:30
So have you gotten the assurance that you want from this thread? Or feeling more confused? By the general standard (civil svc = plastic rice bowl), some already said you shld be quite safe. But like what some other here have also advised, search through more sources within & beyond this forum.

chestnut already pointed out mah, the anxiety or 'stress' could be due to the lack of homework (which does not equate to getting assurance) ............ maybe it's still not too late to do leh?

I have been doing homework, that is why i logged in so often to search, but the search function is so general, everytime i type something eg: interest rates/ freehold/ income etc, whole list will come out and with many threads, cannot find much info. maybe I use wrong method? Or could be that i dunno what I should search or what I dunno...Am still doing homework though..

gfoo
23-03-10, 22:34
oso somewat similar to poshgrove east which i missed ... sama sama apt kinda :)

yah those were the days. PGE went for $800psf, same psf as buckley. but PGE had full facilities, low plot ratio, and great land size. Buckley had a small pool suitable for dogs at best, but is in true blue newton. i remember the pge penthouse going for $675psf due to the large PES. back then, banks will never support full rate PES

cheerful
23-03-10, 22:35
got try to google on streetsine which someone already told u? at least some reference for benchmarking?
:2cents:

gfoo
23-03-10, 22:37
I have been doing homework, that is why i logged in so often to search, but the search function is so general, everytime i type something eg: interest rates/ freehold/ income etc, whole list will come out and with many threads, cannot find much info. maybe I use wrong method? Or could be that i dunno what I should search or what I dunno...Am still doing homework though..

you still haven't answered the most impt qn - do you like the place that much or not? ie truly fall in love with the place w/o justifying your decision, and can picture yourself living very well there. coz only u can answer if you like it enough to take this risk

cheerful
23-03-10, 22:37
yah those were the days. PGE went for $800psf, same psf as buckley. but PGE had full facilities, low plot ratio, and great land size. Buckley had a small pool suitable for dogs at best, but is in true blue newton. i remember the pge penthouse going for $675psf due to the large PES. back then, banks will never support full rate PES

yeap, PGE is full condo status but not exactly full facilities .. at least the tennis court is obviously missing :D

ocoloco79
23-03-10, 22:48
I like it, but my hubby loves it much more than I do. But if I decided to let it go, he will respect my decision. Now the thing is if we give this a miss, how likely is it to find a top floor unit below 1 mil in future? If there is likelihood, we may want o take the risk of losing the booking fee.. We do not want to come to a situation whereby private properties are beyond our reach.. as you know, our income though stable, are not high... rise very slow too...
Reason for wanting a top floor is that we have been haunted by neighbours above our unit who have 5 young children running about making a lot of noices in wee hours of the night and my health has been seriously affected as I never get good sleep for 5 years. Nothing has changed despite us calling the police for 3 times. That is why we choose penthouse. We are not eligible for EC too.. and it doesn't make sense to for us to sell our hdb and get another resale hdb..

gfoo
23-03-10, 22:55
I like it, but my hubby loves it much more than I do. But if I decided to let it go, he will respect my decision. Now the thing is if we give this a miss, how likely is it to find a top floor unit below 1 mil in future? If there is likelihood, we may want o take the risk of losing the booking fee.. We do not want to come to a situation whereby private properties are beyond our reach.. as you know, our income though stable, are not high... rise very slow too...
Reason for wanting a top floor is that we have been haunted by neighbours above our unit who have 5 young children running about making a lot of noices in wee hours of the night and my health has been seriously affected as I never get good sleep for 5 years. Nothing has changed despite us calling the police for 3 times. That is why we choose penthouse.

don't limit your choices just coz of neighbours - you can always add soundproofing material on your false ceiling when you do you ID.

Have flexibility, and unless you have a good reason to, i would look at already TOPed properties as there is tremendous value still to be found there. It's just a matter of putting in some hard work in househunting.

For example, there was a mixed development in Frankel Ave, FH, 2 storey townhouse, 1300sq ft, about $1kpsf. The special thing about this place is, they 'give 'you 2 balconies and a laundry PES FOC - it's strata titled PES so you only pay for livable/drawn up space. almost 380sqft FOC. My friend just bought it 2 months back.

Douk
23-03-10, 22:55
Agree on the risky part. We are thinking of renting out our 5 room hdb instead of selling it away. It seems more worthwhile to do so.. That is why I am worried these few days.. alot of things on mind.. however after hearing all experts view, I decided to keep it and try to hold it as long as I can...

property investment is about holding power (unless luck is on your side to buy at good timing). At this point, price is high and risk is high. Though there is good chance for break through, this is 50-50 chance.

HDB rental yield is attractive income, but it is only attractive if those are spare $$. it is not worth the risk to hold 2 properties with risk of "margin call".

HDB price is high now, purchase made 5 years ago should have good profit.
Take this profit and move on to your new private apartment than holding it, paying interest for the HDB loan with the rental headache is not worth the rental yield..

proud owner
23-03-10, 23:26
i m stating the obvious (most salaried ppl already noe this ;)):

minimum sum can be make up of ordinary acct + special account. So, if special account have 30k liao, then ordinary acct only need another <30k to make up the minimum sum.

If between husband and wife, one of them have higher special acct amt, then use that guy's cpf for 2 properties first... And also switch to make the 2nd person to pay higher percentage to the hdb loan.....

are you certain on this

i reemmeber the new rule started 1 Jul 2006 .. if one owns mroe than 1 properties .. and the first is already serviced using CPF ..

in order for 2nd prop to also use CPF to pay loans ..each party, husband and wife ..each MUST have 60k in the Ordinary account ..

thats what my lawyer told me

august
23-03-10, 23:26
Erm I dun understand what you mean by test? Of course i need assurance if i am on the right track or not, if not I won't be so stressed! Still have time to pull out before my 20% cash is in.
i can understand some of your anxiety... bcos u are currently living in a 5 rm HDB but looking at the penthouse's size i reckon u will have some getting used to especially for own stay. Your hdb will be more spacious and livable.

and the purchase is a 2 bedder, current suburban rental for 2 bedder i think max 3k but probably less..





in any case i will keep the purchase, low rental yield or wat.. heck lah just do it lol! btw there is someone here who preaches propertism, reading some of his posts may help your conviction ~~

Condorich
23-03-10, 23:28
I have been doing homework, that is why i logged in so often to search, but the search function is so general, everytime i type something eg: interest rates/ freehold/ income etc, whole list will come out and with many threads, cannot find much info. maybe I use wrong method? Or could be that i dunno what I should search or what I dunno...Am still doing homework though..

Good effort... if you need help, please reveal more details on your outstanding HDB loan... and the cash balance after the 20% in full cold hard cash.

As of now, I would suggest that you give it a miss... why buy a burden when you can be debt free... its not that you have fully paid up your HDB. Civil service not iron rice bowl... even teachers quit....

Its your choice. :)

august
23-03-10, 23:33
I like it, but my hubby loves it much more than I do. But if I decided to let it go, he will respect my decision. Now the thing is if we give this a miss, how likely is it to find a top floor unit below 1 mil in future? If there is likelihood, we may want o take the risk of losing the booking fee.. We do not want to come to a situation whereby private properties are beyond our reach.. as you know, our income though stable, are not high... rise very slow too...
Reason for wanting a top floor is that we have been haunted by neighbours above our unit who have 5 young children running about making a lot of noices in wee hours of the night and my health has been seriously affected as I never get good sleep for 5 years. Nothing has changed despite us calling the police for 3 times. That is why we choose penthouse. We are not eligible for EC too.. and it doesn't make sense to for us to sell our hdb and get another resale hdb..

aiya keep it lah.. see how it goes. Worse come to worse sell one of them off, no problemo liao. Whereas if u return your unit, u confirm lose 12k plus end of your pty venture. :o

xtink
23-03-10, 23:39
i agree that government jobs are not iron rice bowl... that is true only IF you continue to stay on for life in the same organisation. Unless u are sign-on as a high paying oficer or similar.

The moment you start to feel fatigue and wants to start looking around, then the bowl will start to crack already.

actually i have been to see primo's site before the launch. i quite like the area also but not willing to part with 1kpsf for that area, although the quantum is ok for those MM units, which is a "rare" find nowadays (if terms of 1kpsf for FH, and relatively near MRT).

teddybear
23-03-10, 23:47
If we look at the market trend, private condos near MRT station and near amenities are unlikely to fall significantly below $1k psf in fore-seenable future. So if you like the place then just keep it for own stay lor. HDB flat can sell (if you don't have cash reserve) or rent out (if you have cash reserve). Property is also a form of investment. In future, if need cash also can downgrade back to HDB because HDB flats no matter what will always be about half price or less than private condos in the same vicinity (otherwise means HDB over-valued or private condos there under-valued).


Yes, you are very observant:) .I am born in 1979. Bank loan has been approved already. I will be meeting the banker tomorrow and I will seek his advise. After hearing so much from the experts, I realli hope that I can keep the property. But if the risk of servicing is high, I may reali give this dream a miss. I thought of paying the hdb in full, but since it is so cheap at $800 per month, we decided to continue the loan.

Possible scenarios of
1. Either one of your is out of job, call it quits
In our employment sector, there is always shortage of manpower and we are performing OK, so i pressume we are quite safe in that sense.
2. New arrival babies
Not possible, we do not want kids.
3. Aged parents falling sick
Possible, but our siblings can share.
4. No rental from HDB
Unlikely, if we are renting cheap. 5 room hdb should fetch at least 1.5K?But we can break even at 1K rental to cover monthly payment.
5. Severe Market Correction
Biggest risk would be margin call. but we only borrow 763000, not much compared to many other property owners, so this can only happens if the economy is hit very very hard?

taggy
24-03-10, 00:38
are you certain on this

i reemmeber the new rule started 1 Jul 2006 .. if one owns mroe than 1 properties .. and the first is already serviced using CPF ..

in order for 2nd prop to also use CPF to pay loans ..each party, husband and wife ..each MUST have 60k in the Ordinary account ..

thats what my lawyer told me
MUST have 60k in the Ordinary account -> this is definitely not true now. Ordinary acct+Special Account (including the amount used for investments) can be used to meet the minimum sum. http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/Home/hybrid/Themes/CPF/related.asp?MesId=5717543&FolderID=0&Selected=6&CSRId=&SourceId=1

But u do strike me on whether both parties must meet minimum sum together.
scenario:
- husband, set aside minimum sum, use cpf for 2 properties
- wife, use cpf for only 1st property
Does the wife need to set aside minimum as well?

my gut feeling is need not, bec my friend's case:
- husband use cpf for condo(1st), no need set aside minimum sum
- wife is not co-owner of the condo, use cpf for the hdb(2nd), no need set aside minimum sum

anyway, due to special acct can be used, then personally, i think actual ordinary acct amt need to set aside become not so big...

taggy
24-03-10, 01:04
ocoloco79, year end NEX opens... D19 become more convenient, cheers :)

jlrx
24-03-10, 02:02
in any case i will keep the purchase, low rental yield or wat.. heck lah just do it lol! btw there is someone here who preaches propertism, reading some of his posts may help your conviction ~~

Are you referring to me? :confused:

Here I come ... :p

PROPERTISM states that property prices always go up in the long term, hence properties should only be bought. Not sold.

Primo Residences at 201, Jalan Pelikat used to be Pelikat Court at 201, Jalan Pelikat before it was en bloced on 1 Mar 2007 for $10.8 million, with each of the 16 owners getting an average of $675,000.

This was one of those "less profitable" en blocs because the owners sold too early in the 2007 bullrun.

Pelikat Court was launched in 1983 at a then "crazy price" of $240,000 for a 1,100 sq ft (2 bedroom) apartment or $218 psf. All units were snapped up, except for 4 which the developer held for "investment purposes" (the developer also practised a bit of PROPERTISM). The TOP was in 1985.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/PelikatCourt201JalanPelikat19850208.jpg

Now imagine you have a time machine which takes you back to 1983 ...

Would you have committed? Especially when you see headlines like these ...

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/SurplusOf3000HousesBy198619830716.jpg

ocoloco79
24-03-10, 08:10
Jlrx,
I am impressed!!!!, Really! We didn't even know that!

Condorich,
My hdb outstanding loan is $162300. Cash after paying 20%, which will be in coming May is as good as zero. However, on a rate of at least $4K compulsory savings per month from May, we should have at least $120,000 by the time TOP, self projection at around the start of 2013. This also means that no more luxurious life from now.. No more shopping at boutiques and no more fine dining :( . REno cost I dunno will need how much, can only know when the time comes.
Erm..... You always hit the jackpot. I am a chinese teacher:ashamed1: , but I love my job. Just ended 1 week holiday.. luckily it all happened during holidays..

Taggy,

Would it be wiser to transfer full HDB loan to me, and then my hubby pay for the condo? So both need not set aside min sum? But if that is the case, would it be a waste as I will have excess of cpf which could have been use to top up further for the condo.

2824
24-03-10, 08:43
you can actually still use your CPF to pay the 20% downpayment even if you don't meet the minimum sum, all you need is to sign some letter to say that you will sell off your HDB when the private property TOPs.

taggy
24-03-10, 09:01
Taggy,

Would it be wiser to transfer full HDB loan to me, and then my hubby pay for the condo? So both need not set aside min sum? But if that is the case, would it be a waste as I will have excess of cpf which could have been use to top up further for the condo.

you can proceed to stop CPF monthly repayment for the hdb, but the fact that some of your cpf already went into the hdb does not change.
So, you will still need to set aside minimum sum if you want to use cpf for the condo purchase.

One alternative is, you can pay back cash to cpf "full principal amount withdrawn plus the accrued interest for the hdb", then this way you will not need to set aside minimum sum when paying for the hdb.

Cons:
voluntary refund of the full principal amount withdrawn plus the accrued interest for your exiting property, you are unable to further withdraw any monies from your OA for this property.

Have u double check each of your Special accounts, like i say if already have 35k liao, then only 25k from ordinary acct will be stuck.
And from now till TOP, both of you working, will continue to contribute to your special account. So by the time TOP, if each have close to 60k in special account, then 100% in ordinary acct can be use for the condo and hdb at the same time. :)



you can actually still use your CPF to pay the 20% downpayment even if you don't meet the minimum sum, all you need is to sign some letter to say that you will sell off your HDB when the private property TOPs.

Yes, but also keep below in mind:
If you are buying a property still under construction – you will be given a grace period of 6 months from the issuance of Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP) to sell your first property.

After the grace period, CPF withdrawals will be stopped for your new property purchase, if you do not meet the MSCC requirement.

Condorich
24-03-10, 09:09
Jlrx,
I am impressed!!!!, Really! We didn't even know that!
He is the real guru...



Condorich,
My hdb outstanding loan is $162300. Cash after paying 20%, which will be in coming May is as good as zero. However, on a rate of at least $4K compulsory savings per month from May, we should have at least $120,000 by the time TOP, self projection at around the start of 2013. This also means that no more luxurious life from now.. No more shopping at boutiques and no more fine dining :( . REno cost I dunno will need how much, can only know when the time comes.
Erm..... You always hit the jackpot. I am a chinese teacher:ashamed1: , but I love my job. Just ended 1 week holiday.. luckily it all happened during holidays..

Assuming that the interest rate is at 2.5%... you will have about 20 years left to finance HDB at montly installment of $860... This is ok as one of you can shoulder the burden while the other save. However, with new purchase, loan of around $780 000, assuming that you stretch to 30 years at 2.5%, monthly installments will be around $3k.. cash is involved. Do note that if interest goes up to 4%, it will be around $3.7k... The real nightmare is the fall in your property valuation by more than 10%.... you and your partner might be caught.

When you have near zero cash remaining.. that is something to worry about.. naked. Should anything bad happen, both will be screwed, save for fairy god mothers.

You are almost barely able to afford the purchase. Either choice is alright provided you have luck and things remain constant for you. But they don't always be as planned.




Taggy,

Would it be wiser to transfer full HDB loan to me, and then my hubby pay for the condo? So both need not set aside min sum? But if that is the case, would it be a waste as I will have excess of cpf which could have been use to top up further for the condo.

The 2nd CPF property rule... ask your lawyers. You are doing a switch which may not relieve you from the rule.. excess CPF is not wasted as it sits in the account earning interest at 2.5% and acts as a buffer for unemployment.

As mentioned before... it is very risky for you and your partner and I would deem it as a borderline case... it's really up to you and things can go either way... go in only if you and your partner are ready for the risk... can't say much more.

Condorich
24-03-10, 09:17
you can proceed to stop CPF monthly repayment for the hdb, but the fact that some of your cpf already went into the hdb does not change.
So, you will still need to set aside minimum sum if you want to use cpf for the condo purchase.


:)



One alternative is, you can pay back cash to cpf "full principal amount withdrawn plus the accrued interest for the hdb", then this way you will not need to set aside minimum sum when paying for the hdb.

Cons:
voluntary refund of the full principal amount withdrawn plus the accrued interest for your exiting property, you are unable to further withdraw any monies from your OA for this property.



Not an option for them.



Have u double check each of your Special accounts, like i say if already have 35k liao, then only 25k from ordinary acct will be stuck.
And from now till TOP, both of you working, will continue to contribute to your special account. So by the time TOP, if each have close to 60k in special account, then 100% in ordinary acct can be use for the condo and hdb at the same time. :)



This is why they are buying under construction project and not those ready built. Got some space to save before the real deal.



Yes, but also keep below in mind:
If you are buying a property still under construction – you will be given a grace period of 6 months from the issuance of Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP) to sell your first property.

After the grace period, CPF withdrawals will be stopped for your new property purchase, if you do not meet the MSCC requirement.

Which means either you sell or you pay more in cash... cash cash cash... money money money... solves all the problem isn't it?

A prudent investor would sell HDB and stay in a ready built new condo... when prices correct, they buy back HDB...

A risk taker investor would hold on to both and hope for the best... when they lose, they lose big... either win or lose.

A fool is someone who don't think about all things that could go wrong and at least have some plans for them.

I wish you Gd Luck again :)

teddybear
24-03-10, 10:32
Actually, given your situation, if you had bought another property of the same sale price (that you paid for this yet to be built property) and you can move in immediately (i.e. resale properties) and then proceed to sell your HDB flat, you actually can afford that private property very well and comfortably. What you can't afford is to hold 2 properties at the same time ending up with no cash buffer, made worse by the fact that you bought a property which will take another 2-3 years to build while you immediately need to start to pay the 20% down payment and then further interests on the loan drawn down. Tough decision though. If you have parents to loan you money in case of emergency (though you don't need now), still can go for it as why waste the $12k? The purchase is not that bad anyway (as you are not paying like $1200 psf as like The Vision or Centro in AMK) and if you can hold long enough, it is also good force savings for both of you.
We are like that (me included), too much cash in pocket will start spending on luxury items (but they are really unnecessary).


Jlrx,
I am impressed!!!!, Really! We didn't even know that!

Condorich,
My hdb outstanding loan is $162300. Cash after paying 20%, which will be in coming May is as good as zero. However, on a rate of at least $4K compulsory savings per month from May, we should have at least $120,000 by the time TOP, self projection at around the start of 2013. This also means that no more luxurious life from now.. No more shopping at boutiques and no more fine dining :( . REno cost I dunno will need how much, can only know when the time comes.
Erm..... You always hit the jackpot. I am a chinese teacher:ashamed1: , but I love my job. Just ended 1 week holiday.. luckily it all happened during holidays..

Taggy,

Would it be wiser to transfer full HDB loan to me, and then my hubby pay for the condo? So both need not set aside min sum? But if that is the case, would it be a waste as I will have excess of cpf which could have been use to top up further for the condo.

birdhundter
24-03-10, 10:43
Erm... giving up the car is also an option.

Condorich
24-03-10, 10:59
Erm... giving up the car is also an option.

Can rent out the room or rooms in HDB also... or to rent a room to stay while they rent out their whole HDB.

Basically.. its a matter of cash flow...

It is up to individual's appetite for risk, they are held liable for their own mistakes if any anyway.. jointly and severally.

Hold two properties... let one self finance it through rental and live and pay in another is a good bet. However, it is not always a sunny day... no rental, no job and cash top up, interest rate hikes.. Only they will have the answer... do think carefully over the full 3 weeks period.

:beats-me-man:

BTW.... government released more land... read about it by reporter later on. For now, the headlines

Business Times - 24 Mar 2010


Govt releases 4 home sites in one go
Reiterates supply of land, homes enough to meet demand
By UMA SHANKARI (SINGAPORE) Four more residential sites - on which more than 1,200 private homes can be built in total - were released for sale by the government yesterday.

...

Yesterday, URA said it is releasing three residential land parcels - one each at Boon Lay Way, Simei Street 3 and Stirling Road - for sale. The agency last released three sites for sale at one go in January 2000.

...

draw your own conclusions

greenhorn
24-03-10, 11:35
ocoloco79,

2 factors influences property buying for own stay - affordability and sentiments /feel of the said property.

On affordability, from the figures you have shared, I see that this is a non-issue for you and your hubby. 80% loan with full loan kicking in 3 yrs time, 3 yrs period for saving up, spare cash in CPF for buffer, a high profits 5-rm HDB in the bag, no other loan liability except for car loan, etc....You are in much better shape than many buyers in today's market who have jumped on the bandwagon blindly.

On sentiments/feel for the project, you have said that both you and your hubby love that place. That is a very critical component in your decision-making process. If you have an emotional attachment to the place and are attracted to it and desire to live there with your family happy ever after, then you have answered your own question. The enhanced lifestyle of living in condo vs HDB is well worth it.

Go for it.

The $12K lost could buy you a few pieces of LV bags or good holiday in Europe or that moth-watering diamond ring...;)

Condorich
24-03-10, 11:51
you are a greenhorn for obvious reasons...

Why decide for them? Are you going to bear the losses when their venture turn sour? They will not share their profit with you when they gain.

So Bold some more... What do you gain out of it... be careful as your talk could cost them their future. Could even end up in divorce.

Let them decide for their own good. Money is not just the thing at stake.

:tsk-tsk:

gfoo
24-03-10, 11:55
lol like i said, in an up market, everyone is an instant guru

ocoloco79
24-03-10, 12:01
I am reali grateful for all your insights, and we are very touched by the fact that you guys are so helpful and willing to share. After discussing with my hubby while we went through the posts here, we might consider selling our hdb, but if we can manage with 4K to 5K savings before TOP, we will keep.

By the way, what has new release of homes got to do with making a decision? Sorry I am not good in economics, does it means lower price in future??

Greenhorn,
I have given up my dream bags and holidays for this purchase le:( I used to buy 1 or 2 branded bags each year in the past, no more for me in future...

ocoloco79
24-03-10, 12:11
you are a greenhorn for obvious reasons...

Why decide for them? Are you going to bear the losses when their venture turn sour? They will not share their profit with you when they gain.

So Bold some more... What do you gain out of it... be careful as your talk could cost them their future. Could even end up in divorce.

Let them decide for their own good. Money is not just the thing at stake.

:tsk-tsk:

Condorich,

Dun worry, I know you definitely mean well and I am reali very grateful for all your insights, you are extremely knowledgeable and what ever you said are very real and hard facts of life which we need to take into account in our decision. Greenhorn is just statin his own opinion which in fact is very valuable to us as we need his comforting statement to move on if we decide to remain status quo. In the end we have to decide on our own and cannot blame anyone for whatever outcome.

rainy
24-03-10, 12:51
:cool: are you on progressive payment ?

Condorich
24-03-10, 13:01
I am reali grateful for all your insights, and we are very touched by the fact that you guys are so helpful and willing to share. After discussing with my hubby while we went through the posts here, we might consider selling our hdb, but if we can manage with 4K to 5K savings before TOP, we will keep.

By the way, what has new release of homes got to do with making a decision? Sorry I am not good in economics, does it means lower price in future??

Greenhorn,
I have given up my dream bags and holidays for this purchase le:( I used to buy 1 or 2 branded bags each year in the past, no more for me in future...

You are welcome.. in fact you have the answers... I was being kind to greenhorn as he/she may not know what he is getting into... but I agree with you that he meant well.

Basically it is demand and supply (economics)... all things constant.. more supply would mean cheaper... less supply would mean dearer...

Same goes for demand... more demand would mean dearer... less demand would mean cheaper

This two goes hand in hand and that is why it is difficult to predict.

In simple terms... remember the ever green Hello Kitty/Tamagotchi examples... long long ques... all want it... can resell it at a quick profit.... but things changed.... many hello kitties in the market... sell below cost or even giving it away for free..

Normally I would not share more than what I should but in your case, I shared more. Simply by the fact that you shared more.

In fact... you are fine as long as a life line is available to you... $50k or $100k ... go find your life line and CONGRATS!

Reporter
24-03-10, 13:01
:cool: are you on progressive payment ?
There can only be 1 answer to choose from for this question now.

Condorich
24-03-10, 13:07
There can only be 1 answer to this question now.

80% Normal progressive with 3% - $5400 buyers and sellers duty (if sold within a year)

urban
24-03-10, 13:09
No body can help answer the question for you. But you should know in your gut now, whether to proceed.

The bottom line is always, do you like the property enough to go for it?

And you have to be very clear to your/hubby's minds what is the key reason for buying this property.

That has to be balanced with the risk with buying the property.

You know the answer in your heart. listen to it.

greenhorn
24-03-10, 13:12
you are a greenhorn for obvious reasons...

Why decide for them? Are you going to bear the losses when their venture turn sour? They will not share their profit with you when they gain.

So Bold some more... What do you gain out of it... be careful as your talk could cost them their future. Could even end up in divorce.

Let them decide for their own good. Money is not just the thing at stake.

:tsk-tsk:

Wahh...so hot. Loosen up, man. Why so emotional?

I may be a greenie, but i am condo rich. hehe :D

Live the dream...

Condorich
24-03-10, 13:22
Wahh...so hot. Loosen up, man. Why so emotional?

I may be a greenie, but i am condo rich. hehe :D

Live the dream...

LOL... its your FONTS!... diffference between this and this.

No worries... I am not hot lah... no need to lossen up also... and definitely not emotional.. just feel that we should not decide for others as they really need to decide for themselves, in particular your "Go for it" and nothing else. Balanced views given so they are in a better position to decide.. as they say.. go in with their eyes wide open...

Greenhorn do post more and then you will not be green anymore... you meant well too.

I can see that you are making fun of my nick back. Let's hope for the best for the benefit of all current property owners... Cheers!

:cool:

rainy
24-03-10, 13:26
;) well, since you do not intend to have babies .... then you can take more risk ....

Condorich
24-03-10, 14:08
http://www.asiaone.com/a1media/site/common/a1logo.gif (http://www.asiaone.com.sg/)http://www.asiaone.com/a1media/site/common/blank.gifBusiness @ AsiaOne (http://www.asiaone.com/print/Business/Business.html)
Fire sale: Owners dump condos
Stock market losses have forced some property owners to resort to 'fire sales' for a quick return to liquidity.
Elysa Chen

Tue, Oct 21, 2008
The New Paper

FOR sale: Luxurious multi-million-dollar apartments, not quite for a steal, but with a hefty discount.

Stock market losses have forced some property owners to resort to 'fire sales' for a quick return to liquidity.And because the property market is almost flat, they have had to let go of their property at huge discounts.

Property agent Henry Neo receives one SMS a day from different clients asking him to sell their homes.

Mr Neo, who has been a property agent for close to 20 years, said: 'The Asian financial crisis of 1997 and this crisis are real challenges.
'It's a tsunami of the stock market.'

Two or three of the 50 clients he is servicing now are what he calls 'desperados' - people who had their fingers burnt so badly in the stock market they need to sell their houses.

The situation is worse for those who opted for deferred payment schemes, said Mr Neo, because some are no longer eligible for loans, and cannot meet payments once the developers issue the Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP).'They have to get rid of their properties before TOP, so they would be giving even more discounts.'

Noting that the high-end property market seems to be hit the hardest, Mr Neo said: 'My colleagues who specialise in high-end properties are not doing well. They do not have any transactions at all.'

Mr David Cheang, senior vice-president of the Resale Division at HSR Property Group, noted that two out of every 10 clients are affected by the stock market crash, and are selling their property investments to 'get more liquidity'.

A property agent who declined to give his full name said one of his clients had made such losses on the stock market that he was selling his 27th floor freehold apartment at the Twin Regency for a mere $1.05 million, though its market price is $1.3 million.Last year, he had sold another unit, on the 29th floor of the same condominium, for $1.4 million.

It is the same story for Mr Felix Young, 35, a property agent specialising in high-end condominiums. Some of his clients are prepared to go as low as 20 per cent below their offer price.He had taken out an advertisement for five properties, all high-end condominium units in the city.

Apartments at The Sail at Marina Bay, which were going for $2,000 psf are now being offered for sale at $1,450 psf, said Mr Young.
But even such a huge discount is failing to entice buyers, who are asking for $1,100 psf. That is because even with such discounts, the two-room apartment costs about $1.3 million.

In the current climate, not many people would be able to shell out that kind of money because they could be sitting on huge paper losses in the stock market.Mr Young said: 'Buyers have the sentiment that the property market will cool even more, and prices will drop further.'
And because of this, said Mr Young, there has been a significant drop in transactions - up to 70 per cent for high-end properties that people buy for investments.

Most buyers also know developers' launch price for the condominiums and are holding out until they can get a unit at that price.
He said: 'These days, when buyers call me, they ask me if I have any owners who are 'bleeding'.'

Bleeding is a term that is used to describe owners who over-committed themselves financially and need to sell their properties in a hurry.
Mr Young said: 'Many of my clients' bank loans are kicking in soon, so they need to release the properties quickly, before TOP.

'They are stuck because they can neither sell their property, nor rent it out to cover their mortgages, as the rental market has slowed down a lot.'

This article was first published in The New Paper (http://www.tnp.sg/) on October 19, 2008.

It happened! Even the experts could not predict the crisis... It will happen again... just when.. Though it is more resilient now with the removal of the DPS and the 80% rule.

That's why a lot of people are rushing in to buy thinking that it is not likely to happen again so soon... but who really knows??

The rule of thumb... buy within your means. Sleep peacefully debt free.

Blue
24-03-10, 16:01
We are actually HDB upgraders. Not sure of we reali can sustain in terms of liabilities in the long run. Initially my budget is $600K for min 2 brm, anything above is considered out of reach to me. I had been searching around for sometime but nothing matched my budget and price kept increasing like crazy. So we increase our budget to $800K max which could be a little tight on us, but it is easier to find. Then suddenly for dunno what reason we actually committed to this particular unit after the agents sweet talk. Both my hubby and I are civil servants with monthly household income of 10K plus abit only. Our liability would be our HDB flat loan at abt $800+ per month deducted from cpf, plus car loan at abt $600. No other liabilities unless you consider giving parents abt $800 a month is counted as one. Our current monthly savings is abt 3 to 4K per month, which can fluctuate...Once we paid the initial 20% downpayment in cash, we become poor le:scared-5:

With a household income of $10K+, you are in very good shape to buy and hold your new house for a long long period. I assume for the new house, you are only taking a loan of S$650K...that translates to $2K+ per month only in normalised interest. Your HDB loan will pay for itself via rental and you get to make $1K more to pay towards your new house instalment.

xtink
24-03-10, 16:13
not necessary, some projects still not completely sold are still offering IAS


There can only be 1 answer to choose from for this question now.

Condorich
24-03-10, 16:38
he said now.. after cut off date... some projects which were offered before the cut off date were allowed to continue to offer them.

gohsoonk
24-03-10, 17:25
Agree. Sell and make profit. Rental is a lot of churn.


property investment is about holding power (unless luck is on your side to buy at good timing). At this point, price is high and risk is high. Though there is good chance for break through, this is 50-50 chance.

HDB rental yield is attractive income, but it is only attractive if those are spare $$. it is not worth the risk to hold 2 properties with risk of "margin call".

HDB price is high now, purchase made 5 years ago should have good profit.
Take this profit and move on to your new private apartment than holding it, paying interest for the HDB loan with the rental headache is not worth the rental yield..

ocoloco79
24-03-10, 17:31
With a household income of $10K+, you are in very good shape to buy and hold your new house for a long long period. I assume for the new house, you are only taking a loan of S$650K...that translates to $2K+ per month only in normalised interest. Your HDB loan will pay for itself via rental and you get to make $1K more to pay towards your new house instalment.

ERm no, we are taking a loan of $763000 for 35 years loan.. so not reali 2K plus leh.. But I am reali glad that now we have an even clearer picture of wat risk we could face.. Esp on the article above regarding owners dumping condos.. so scary.. How I wish I can buy a condo during that time.. but cannot because of HDB MOP for 5 years :(

We dun bear to sell our hdb cos we reali hope to stay there upon retirement. It is a dream place to stay minus the irritating neighbous above...But if left with no choice, have to give it up..

Condorich
24-03-10, 17:48
ERm no, we are taking a loan of $763000 for 35 years loan.. so not reali 2K plus leh.. But I am reali glad that now we have an even clearer picture of wat risk we could face.. Esp on the article above regarding owners dumping condos.. so scary.. How I wish I can buy a condo during that time.. but cannot because of HDB MOP for 5 years :(

We dun bear to sell our hdb cos we reali hope to stay there upon retirement. It is a dream place to stay minus the irritating neighbous above...But if left with no choice, have to give it up..

ok.. in case you think that selling HDB is a bed of roses.. it is not.. some units may take years at a huge discount...

and do note that the valuation will go up and down, the way is not always up. See post 1997... 2004... some selling below valuation with no buyers.

If you are faced with a loan suspension for your private apt... most probably your hdb value would fall also. That could spell doom.

I would suggest that you sell HDB NOW and and move in to a ready built condo but that is not possible, you need a roof.. just hope that the prices hold steady at least till TOP. Again, a available life line is all the difference. Gd Luck!

ocoloco79
24-03-10, 18:00
ok.. in case you think that selling HDB is a bed of roses.. it is not.. some units may take years at a huge discount...

and do note that the valuation will go up and down, the way is not always up. See post 1997... 2004... some selling below valuation with no buyers.

If you are faced with a loan suspension for your private apt... most probably your hdb value would fall also. That could spell doom.

I would suggest that you sell HDB NOW and and move in to a ready built condo but that is not possible, you need a roof.. just hope that the prices hold steady at least till TOP. Again, a available life line is all the difference. Gd Luck!

May I know if margin calls is calculated this way? For instance in my case, my property cost $953K, later economic down turn, my pty value dropped by 20% to $762400. Bank will ask for margin call to top up the difference of $190600 in my case? Normally how much do we need to spare aside as cash to prepare for margin calls?? On the other hand, suspension of loan means bank will not lend me money and I need to pay one shot $700 over thousands to developer???:confused: Thanks!!:)

Thanks:)

Condorich
24-03-10, 18:20
Sorry cannot help you with this one because never encountered. What I know is that it happened to some buyers before.

The banks will inform you if you need to top up or when they will suspend the bank payment to developers. That is when you need to pay cash direct to developers. I would say that you will need to top up when the valuation is less than the outstanding loan granted say, valuation dropped to $700k and outstanding loan $800k.. may have to top up $100k (but again, please excuse me here if incorrect)

There's a trigger point when the value falls below a certain trashhold..

Perhaps the other experienced forummers could help you on this.

:scared-3:

ocoloco79
24-03-10, 18:25
A lesson learnt.. never succumbed to hardselling or pressures.. If I had more time to do homework or to ask for everyone opinions here, I will hold back and wait. At most live in hdb forever and be worry free....Haiz...

Reporter
24-03-10, 18:38
not necessary, some projects still not completely sold are still offering IAS
... but those are "old" projects, this is not ... There is no other payment scheme for Primo Residences.

Reporter
24-03-10, 18:52
May I know if margin calls is calculated this way? For instance in my case, my property cost $953K, later economic down turn, my pty value dropped by 20% to $762400. Bank will ask for margin call to top up the difference of $190600 in my case? Normally how much do we need to spare aside as cash to prepare for margin calls?? On the other hand, suspension of loan means bank will not lend me money and I need to pay one shot $700 over thousands to developer???:confused: Thanks!!:)

Thanks:)
I am no expert on this subject.

Based on my understanding, margin calls happened in the past, e.g. Asian crisis, etc.. Did it happen during SAR period? I am not sure.

I believe there is no margin call during US-subprime crisis for those who promptly make their monthly repayment even if their valuation dropped significantly. Why? The banks want your recurring business - not your properties or your bankruptcy.

Nevertheless, you need to prepare for margin call.

Condorich
24-03-10, 19:05
A lesson learnt.. never succumbed to hardselling or pressures.. If I had more time to do homework or to ask for everyone opinions here, I will hold back and wait. At most live in hdb forever and be worry free....Haiz...

Its not the end of the road... really work your sums right.. any insurance policies to fall back on (draw out cash?).. any reserve money from relatives available should there be a need... anything... really have to have a really clear picture of the risk and the solutions..

A quick and good buyer is someone who

1. Study the area that he/she is interested in... maybe years of study.
2. Watch the land being released for sale and the successful bidder or the enblock pricing.
3. Monitor the news of the tentative selling price... not accurate but serves as a guide. Developer will revise their pricing in line with the market demand... they are profit maximisers which means that even if they got the land dirt cheap, they will try their luck to sell it at a high price as long as there are buyers willing to buy
4. Work out the sums right, get an in principal approval from banks on max loan quantum before walking into show rooms, you have a maximum budget that you can commit comfortably.
5. Lastly, register for preview with a blank cheque, wait for developer to reveal the pricing... buy only when it is within your max range for that project and all the pros and cons carefully evaulated.

That's a cool and wise buyer... agents will love you for saving their time. You will not worry as much as the homework is all done.

The reason for the 3 weeks exercise period is for buyers to think through their purchase, some may abort their purchase and lose the option fee. Agents will be hurt and terribly upset but it is your RIGHT. If you want to know... go find out about concourse skyline.... more than 10 buyers had let their option lapse after the lehman saga.... google for it and see if you can find it. They could buy back the units which were released again at a lower price, 10-20% less? you must do your own research on that. Its not that lehman saga will happen again so easily but the point I want to make is that it is alright to let the option lapse... $12k is really nothing.

Lastly, I am not asking the both of you to let the option lapse. I am asking the both of you to consider your means, a decision that you and your husband should make. It may be the biggest decision in your life....

Condorich
24-03-10, 19:18
I must be very bored. Here you go

http://www.update.sg/whatsnew/dec08/whatsNew_dec08_p3.html

The reliable source is URA at www.ura.gov.sg (http://www.ura.gov.sg) they quote it.

Table [7] – Total no. of TOP lapsed in October 2008

Units returned in Oct 2008 Project name
No. of units returned
Beacon Heights 1
Clover By The Park 1
Concourse Skyline 14
Kovan Residences 1
Madison Residences 2
Parc Sophia 2
Silversea 5
Soleil @ Sinaran 2
The Peak @ Balmeg 11
Trasalveo 5
Viva 5
Waterfront Waves 2

new2mondrian
24-03-10, 20:06
deja vu - layout almost exactly the same as Buckley Residences i was about to buy in Jan 09 - but wife found it a little too small sighz. nice layout

gfoo, your wife is right. it really is a mickey mousehole... after deducting the stairwell, the roof terrace, the balcony, the household shelter, the true livable area is approx 550sqft.

i lived in a Novelty Land apt for 2 years. suffice to say that it is the last time I shall endeavour to stay in a Novelty-developed unit. The hallmarks of Novelty are abound.... small liveable space, small kitchen, small bedrooms... everything is small, except for the un-liveable areas. :(

ocoloco79,

Actually your situation is pretty interesting. Based on today's prices, what you've paid is not exorbitant, though your combined pay of $10k per month is not much, esp taking into account of the fact that a large part of the HDB loan is still outstanding. How are your savings/other investments like?

Having seen (and invested in) private properties for a number of years, there is really a limited upside to your unit. Firstly, it is in a non-prime district, and you paid a huge premium (based on purchase price/real liveable area) for the unit. Secondly, whilst the floor plan looks good, the real product will be only suited for singles and couples (with no kids), which put you in direct competition with the true MM units which cost $500-600k in the area. Thirdly, there are a number of things which investors pay a premium for - a large living room with a nice view (the living room in the floor plan is only large enough for a 3-seater sofa; that gives you a rough indication of its size); and a large MBR (the MBR in the floor plan again only supports the size of an avg 1.6m (approx) wardrobe, again a rough indication of its size. With this, whilst a floorplan looks attractive, the actual TOP product might be tough to rent or to sell.

My 2 cents. As for the decision to have kids, it is never cast in stone. my hubby and I made the same decision not to have kids a long time ago, but nonetheless we still had one before I turned 30. My take is that the place you bought is rather exp.... I bought a 10-years old FH 3-bedder 940sqft unit at Kim Yam road (D9) with no balcony/planter/PES/terrace/bay-window (ie the 940sqft is fully liveable area) 3 months ago for the same price you paid. Look around. There are good deals around, esp in older devts.

gfoo
24-03-10, 20:33
totally agree wid ya N2M. thank god my wife stopped me fr offering and so we ended up wid the current ol' place. layouts are important. my 9XX sqft 2 bedder is totally livable space (no balc, flr-to-ceilg windows) - and we're now building a 3rd bedroom, still retaining a largish living room

ocoloco79
24-03-10, 22:20
I must be very bored. Here you go

http://www.update.sg/whatsnew/dec08/whatsNew_dec08_p3.html

The reliable source is URA at www.ura.gov.sg (http://www.ura.gov.sg) they quote it.

Table [7] – Total no. of TOP lapsed in October 2008

Units returned in Oct 2008 Project name
No. of units returned
Beacon Heights 1
Clover By The Park 1
Concourse Skyline 14
Kovan Residences 1
Madison Residences 2
Parc Sophia 2
Silversea 5
Soleil @ Sinaran 2
The Peak @ Balmeg 11
Trasalveo 5
Viva 5
Waterfront Waves 2

Thank you for the extra miles:) . After much consideration upon reading all advices, weighing pros and cons, we felt that we should take the risk, best reason being the quiet location is something we want and we are very familiar with this area. It is walking distance to our current home. On top of that, we think that a penthouse unit below 1 mil is hard to come by. Penthouse is important for my hubby as he value the roof attic more than livable area becos he loves small scale sky gardening, even though i prefer to have bigger livable spaces. I need a top floor unit too and we find difficulty finding top floor unit or penthouse resale unit that suits our requirement on sale. On top of that, it is near mrt + freehold, so below 1 mil even more difficult in future.
$12K may not be alot, compared to the risk I am taking. But we are kinda hesitant to give up the 12K unless I am certain that my case is a confirm doom case. I share your sentiments, I deem my case as borderline, so hanging mid air, tough decision. Although I do have life line as my family has the ability to help, but prefer to handle it on our own, do not wish to strain relationships because of money.

Kenshinto80
24-03-10, 22:31
gfoo, your wife is right. it really is a mickey mousehole... after deducting the stairwell, the roof terrace, the balcony, the household shelter, the true livable area is approx 550sqft.

i lived in a Novelty Land apt for 2 years. suffice to say that it is the last time I shall endeavour to stay in a Novelty-developed unit. The hallmarks of Novelty are abound.... small liveable space, small kitchen, small bedrooms... everything is small, except for the un-liveable areas. :(

ocoloco79,

Actually your situation is pretty interesting. Based on today's prices, what you've paid is not exorbitant, though your combined pay of $10k per month is not much, esp taking into account of the fact that a large part of the HDB loan is still outstanding. How are your savings/other investments like?

Having seen (and invested in) private properties for a number of years, there is really a limited upside to your unit. Firstly, it is in a non-prime district, and you paid a huge premium (based on purchase price/real liveable area) for the unit. Secondly, whilst the floor plan looks good, the real product will be only suited for singles and couples (with no kids), which put you in direct competition with the true MM units which cost $500-600k in the area. Thirdly, there are a number of things which investors pay a premium for - a large living room with a nice view (the living room in the floor plan is only large enough for a 3-seater sofa; that gives you a rough indication of its size); and a large MBR (the MBR in the floor plan again only supports the size of an avg 1.6m (approx) wardrobe, again a rough indication of its size. With this, whilst a floorplan looks attractive, the actual TOP product might be tough to rent or to sell.

My 2 cents. As for the decision to have kids, it is never cast in stone. my hubby and I made the same decision not to have kids a long time ago, but nonetheless we still had one before I turned 30. My take is that the place you bought is rather exp.... I bought a 10-years old FH 3-bedder 940sqft unit at Kim Yam road (D9) with no balcony/planter/PES/terrace/bay-window (ie the 940sqft is fully liveable area) 3 months ago for the same price you paid. Look around. There are good deals around, esp in older devts.


whahaha....none Prime District so little upside based on other conditions. Please refer to the Stadia post. Folks 2 years back saying 800plus psf is damn expensive and will only pay 600psf for district 19. If one wants big area without balcony/planter and BIG living room.....why don't go for Maisonette? Those are also good deals. The reason for you being able to get same price at D9 is because such apartment design is considered out-dated. I for one will not pay a single cent for such a unit even if it is D9.

Kenshinto80
24-03-10, 22:36
lol like i said, in an up market, everyone is an instant guru

Hehe....only 50% correct, in a property downturn, as we have seen all over various property forum, everyone is an instant guru also. So in whatever market, all gurus.

jlrx
24-03-10, 22:46
lol like i said, in an up market, everyone is an instant guru
Hehe....only 50% correct, in a property downturn, as we have seen all over various property forum, everyone is an instant guru also. So in whatever market, all gurus.

But the gurus in an "up market" and the gurus in a "property downturn" are not the same gurus. :scared-5:

Now is an "up market", so I (and my PROPERTISM) am the guru! :cheers1:

If the market crashes tomorrow, I'll disappear from this forum (like what I have done for one year after the Lehman Crisis :() and then new "gurus" will come to this forum and I can imagine that they will crack jokes like ...

"Do you remember that PROPERTISM joker who said that property prices could only go up and invested 100% of his money in properties? Wonder what happened to him now?"

If this happens, please don't worry. I may be down, but not out. I will come back again one day. Because property prices will surely go up again, in the long term. That's rule No. 1 in PROPERTISM.

tanumy
24-03-10, 23:34
Infact in my opinion you should have consider D18 project Double bay residence which is close to simei mrt, upcoming singapore 4th university and mega developement at changi business park. Further more price is reasonable and govt just release another land for tender for around 200+ units so prices are expected to go up. You could have buy a resale market as all units are sold out. :)



Thank you for the extra miles:) . After much consideration upon reading all advices, weighing pros and cons, we felt that we should take the risk, best reason being the quiet location is something we want and we are very familiar with this area. It is walking distance to our current home. On top of that, we think that a penthouse unit below 1 mil is hard to come by. Penthouse is important for my hubby as he value the roof attic more than livable area becos he loves small scale sky gardening, even though i prefer to have bigger livable spaces. I need a top floor unit too and we find difficulty finding top floor unit or penthouse resale unit that suits our requirement on sale. On top of that, it is near mrt + freehold, so below 1 mil even more difficult in future.
$12K may not be alot, compared to the risk I am taking. But we are kinda hesitant to give up the 12K unless I am certain that my case is a confirm doom case. I share your sentiments, I deem my case as borderline, so hanging mid air, tough decision. Although I do have life line as my family has the ability to help, but prefer to handle it on our own, do not wish to strain relationships because of money.

Reporter
24-03-10, 23:59
Infact in my opinion you should have consider D18 project Double bay residence which is close to simei mrt, upcoming singapore 4th university and mega developement at changi business park. Further more price is reasonable and govt just release another land for tender for around 200+ units so prices are expected to go up. You could have buy a resale market as all units are sold out. :)
Does this "familiar" post mark the end of our fruitful discussion and also serve as the conclusion/closure?

Thank you everyone for your contribution and goodnight!
"ocoloco79", all the best in your purchase.

bargain hunter
25-03-10, 00:24
i really couldn't hold back my laughter when i saw tanumy's post...:im-so-happy: really made my day...oops, night...



Does this "familiar" post mark the end of our fruitful discussion and also serve as the conclusion/closure?

Thank you everyone for your contribution and goodnight!
"ocoloco79", all the best in your purchase.

gohsoonk
25-03-10, 09:39
I am not too sure if the below is correct. In theory, the bank is the owner of the mortagage, so the bank will not stop disbursing the funds to the developer. It is really between the bank and the buyer. The CPF has 1st charge followed by the bank and then followed by the buyer.

If you pay direct to developer, there is no need to top up in the first place. Because you will need to pay all/remaining sum to the developer.


Sorry cannot help you with this one because never encountered. What I know is that it happened to some buyers before.

The banks will inform you if you need to top up or when they will suspend the bank payment to developers. That is when you need to pay cash direct to developers. I would say that you will need to top up when the valuation is less than the outstanding loan granted say, valuation dropped to $700k and outstanding loan $800k.. may have to top up $100k (but again, please excuse me here if incorrect)

There's a trigger point when the value falls below a certain trashhold..

Perhaps the other experienced forummers could help you on this.

:scared-3:

Condorich
25-03-10, 09:52
I am not too sure if the below is correct. In theory, the bank is the owner of the mortagage, so the bank will not stop disbursing the funds to the developer. It is really between the bank and the buyer. The CPF has 1st charge followed by the bank and then followed by the buyer.

If you pay direct to developer, there is no need to top up in the first place. Because you will need to pay all/remaining sum to the developer.

I am not sure and you are also not sure... hopefully someone can be sure and post.

But some flaws in your reasoning... Mortagage... If banks will not stop disbursing the funds to the developer... then I will not pay and just relax when I know that the banks will not stop disbursing to the developer. Banks will never be suckers!

CPF first charge? Used to be in the past... should not be the case now.. ask your lawyers now. http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/buy-house/BH6.htm

b) Private PropertyThe CPF charge will take effect on the property when the CPF savings are released. For private residential properties bought or refinanced after 1 September 2003, the ranking of the charge is shown in the Table below:


1st Charge Outstanding housing loan from your financier


2nd Charge CPF principal sum up to 100% Valuation Limit plus CPF withdrawals used for the legal and stamp fees in the purchase


3rd Charge Equal ranking (pari passu) -CPF principal sum beyond the 100% Valuation Limit plus accrued interest -Repayment of outstanding balance of the housing loan interests


4th Charge Equal ranking (pari passu) -CPF legal costs and expenses -Financier's legal costs and expenses

Pay all remaining sum... if so die liao... more than the cost of HDB, into negative equity... die die

:doh:

Condorich
25-03-10, 09:57
i really couldn't hold back my laughter when i saw tanumy's post...:im-so-happy: really made my day...oops, night...

I was relieved to hear that all sold out... but I have a nightmare yesterday that tanumy's new line will be..

you guessed it ... "go buy DBR from sub sale".... go buy... go buy... like a begger... "4th uni....." "High potential"..."Best choice".... are also possible new lines..

:simmering:

ocoloco79
25-03-10, 10:30
i really couldn't hold back my laughter when i saw tanumy's post...:im-so-happy: really made my day...oops, night...

Sorry ofr being ignorant.. Why is the post funny? You mean all sold out hence he shouldn't ask me to buy? Or too popular and expensive?:confused:

ocoloco79
25-03-10, 10:36
Sorry ofr being ignorant.. Why is the post funny? You mean all sold out hence he shouldn't ask me to buy? Or too popular and expensive?:confused:

ok I got it, he is the agent for this project as I saw him posting adverts all over hee hee...

bargain hunter
25-03-10, 11:00
hey, dun like that leh, at least pple got put in effort wor, this is the longest and most detailed advertising post...unlike the previous one liners. :p


I was relieved to hear that all sold out... but I have a nightmare yesterday that tanumy's new line will be..

you guessed it ... "go buy DBR from sub sale".... go buy... go buy... like a begger... "4th uni....." "High potential"..."Best choice".... are also possible new lines..

:simmering:

bargain hunter
25-03-10, 11:03
not sure if agent or not but most certainly zou huo ru mo...:D invading every other project.



ok I got it, he is the agent for this project as I saw him posting adverts all over hee hee...

august
25-03-10, 11:38
:gun3:DBR ftw !!! lol

Condorich
25-03-10, 11:39
hey, dun like that leh, at least pple got put in effort wor, this is the longest and most detailed advertising post...unlike the previous one liners. :p

Yes.. I was surprised too... normally he/she will just post 1 liners....

But amazingly.... so many lines.... too bad conclusion is the same... DBR

:doh: guess all seen too much postings by him/her on DBR

new2mondrian
25-03-10, 11:50
Thank you for the extra miles:) . After much consideration upon reading all advices, weighing pros and cons, we felt that we should take the risk, best reason being the quiet location is something we want and we are very familiar with this area. It is walking distance to our current home. On top of that, we think that a penthouse unit below 1 mil is hard to come by. Penthouse is important for my hubby as he value the roof attic more than livable area becos he loves small scale sky gardening, even though i prefer to have bigger livable spaces. I need a top floor unit too and we find difficulty finding top floor unit or penthouse resale unit that suits our requirement on sale. On top of that, it is near mrt + freehold, so below 1 mil even more difficult in future.
$12K may not be alot, compared to the risk I am taking. But we are kinda hesitant to give up the 12K unless I am certain that my case is a confirm doom case. I share your sentiments, I deem my case as borderline, so hanging mid air, tough decision. Although I do have life line as my family has the ability to help, but prefer to handle it on our own, do not wish to strain relationships because of money.

Glad that you guys come to a consensus on what to do with the property. All the best and enjoy it! And who knows, maybe a year or two later if prices go berserk, you can sell it for a decent gain too! :)

As a sidenote on top floor PH units, actually in recent years there is a proliferation of such units, and despite their small liveable area, one can be surprised at how people can fit 4-5 pax in the unit. Hence anything is possible. :) I know of this family of 5 (couple with 2 young kids and a maid) who stays in the top floor PH unit at Casa Meya (next to Potong Pasir station), which is really a MM unit with 2 small bedrooms and a roof terrace. They did everything on the roof terrace; the kids play there (and all their toys are stored there), maid does her ironing and laundry and even prepares dinner there, and the dad reads papers there plus waters all his plants in the planter boxes... whenever there are guests, the guests have their meals there as well. So unliveable also becomes liveable space. ;)

new2mondrian
25-03-10, 11:57
whahaha....none Prime District so little upside based on other conditions. Please refer to the Stadia post. Folks 2 years back saying 800plus psf is damn expensive and will only pay 600psf for district 19. If one wants big area without balcony/planter and BIG living room.....why don't go for Maisonette? Those are also good deals. The reason for you being able to get same price at D9 is because such apartment design is considered out-dated. I for one will not pay a single cent for such a unit even if it is D9.

erm, u mean an apartment design with no planters/balcony is outdated? apologies, I fail to see the link. I can think of tonnes of apartment designs that are without such unliveable spaces that are still "in"!

At the end of the day, to each his own. Personally I prefer full liveable space with full height windows, which the Kim Yam unit has for the whole living/dining/study but with no planters/balconies to fully utilise the space and bring in the light. But of course, there are others who love huge planters and even larger balconies.... so well.... no layout is superior than the other as long as it suits one's lifestyle and preference.

Maisonette is of course good... landed even better! but in terms of dollar quantum, if you can find a FH/999yr maisonette with 2000sqft liveable space in river valley area that cost $950k, plse let me know asap. I will buy it regardless its apartment design, dated or otherwise. :)

amk
25-03-10, 11:59
... and you are also not sure...

he's being polite.


gohsoonk] [/B]In theory, the bank is the owner of the mortagage, so the bank will not stop disbursing the funds to the developer

this is correct. When a buyer secures a mortgage, the risk of buyer default is no longer borne by the developer, but rather by the bank. Bank has to pay developer. It's between you and the bank for whatever valuation matters.

ocoloco79 : relax. you take a risk. so what. you both like the place, that's the most important. risk taking is one very important factor in this pty business. Some members here are so risk adverse, there is point to talk abt pty at all. Remember mortgage is the cheapest loan you can take in life. Granted a 10k income paying both a 1m pte and 300k HDB is a bit tight, it's not at all entirely reckless, considering the pte is BUC, so u really just loan 40% for most of the time before TOP. So congrats.

(read what gfoo/N2M said. the most important thing is not if u overpaid or what. It's " do you really like it ?" Personally I dun like this type. But if you like it a lot, then it's a good buy for you. )

new2mondrian
25-03-10, 12:04
totally agree wid ya N2M. thank god my wife stopped me fr offering and so we ended up wid the current ol' place. layouts are important. my 9XX sqft 2 bedder is totally livable space (no balc, flr-to-ceilg windows) - and we're now building a 3rd bedroom, still retaining a largish living room

gfoo, i am interested in how u managed to partition out another room at your unit (cos I was looking at a 9XX sqft unit at Sail last month). can share where u are carving out the space from?

u are right.... don't touch the living room. it is one of the key strengths of the sail.

ocoloco79
25-03-10, 13:03
Granted a 10k income paying both a 1m pte and 300k HDB is a bit tight, it's not at all entirely reckless, considering the pte is BUC, so u really just loan 40% for most of the time before TOP. So congrats.



Hi amk,

i dun get you in that part which you said I just loan 40% most of the time b4 TOP.. Sorry I am very blur...:confused:

Condorich
25-03-10, 13:19
he's being polite.



Thanks.. anyway qualifier stated. So they have to do their own research or fact finding. You may be right but I would not take it as is unless I have them from credible sources. No doubt the relationship is between the mortgagee and mortgagor, was told that banks might stop payment for progressive payments (their call) and you have to pay directly to developer or breach the Sales & Purchase agreement and lose your 20%.

Risk appetite is subjective and up to individual... you can be all the hero in shame... or live another day in pride. I am sure not all bankrupts wanted to be bankrupts.

The thing about buying everything is the same.. you like it, you buy it. Provided you can pay. Simple as that. Affordability...

Buy LV bags versus cheap china bags.. all bags actually. But what's the difference... I can afford it.

What I am glad to see if that at least it appears that it is a joint decision and they purchased what they really liked. At least, they would have resigned to fate if anything goes wrong. But if they are right, they will be even happier as it was a joint decision. That's all it matters to me. Helping them to decide and not to decide for them.

On the 40%.... it should be on the progressive payment status... if you are interested, orocolo79.. self study.

http://www.ura.gov.sg/lad/HBG/

ocoloco79
25-03-10, 13:23
What I am glad to see if that at least it appears that it is a joint decision and they purchased what they really liked. At least, they would have resigned to fate if anything goes wrong. But if they are right, they will be even happier as it was a joint decision. That's all it matters to me. Helping them to decide and not to decide for them.

Thank you so much for everything! :D

amk
25-03-10, 13:25
Hi amk,

i dun get you in that part which you said I just loan 40% most of the time b4 TOP.. Sorry I am very blur...:confused:

This project is not even started right ? say take 3ys. under progressive payment scheme, after the 1st 20%, the next payments are 10, 10, 5, 5, 5, 5 progressively, then at TOP (right after really) a big 25%, then another 1y plus later for the 15% in diff ways. Before TOP, at most u r loaning 40%.

Blue
25-03-10, 14:00
From what was gathered, as long as you regularly service your housing loan on time, there will not be any so-called margin calls. You should read all fine prints of your bank loan agreement to spot any unusual clauses mentioning this. I couldn't find any in mine. :confused:

Blue
25-03-10, 14:09
ERm no, we are taking a loan of $763000 for 35 years loan.. so not reali 2K plus leh.. But I am reali glad that now we have an even clearer picture of wat risk we could face.. Esp on the article above regarding owners dumping condos.. so scary.. How I wish I can buy a condo during that time.. but cannot because of HDB MOP for 5 years :(

We dun bear to sell our hdb cos we reali hope to stay there upon retirement. It is a dream place to stay minus the irritating neighbous above...But if left with no choice, have to give it up..

With a loan of $763K for 35 years, your monthly instalment is $2.9K (3%) to $3.8K (5%). You can work out how much you can save per household after deducting all other expenses. Your CPF can help to service the monthly instalment for up to $2K. So cash outlay is between $900 to $1.8K. You can still live your life comfortably unless you have other large committments.

As for HDB, you should sell when your penthouse TOP in 3 yrs. Then when you retire at the age of 60, sell your penthouse and buy back a 3 room HDB to cash out for retirement.

Condorich
25-03-10, 14:40
With a loan of $763K for 35 years, your monthly instalment is $2.9K (3%) to $3.8K (5%). You can work out how much you can save per household after deducting all other expenses. Your CPF can help to service the monthly instalment for up to $2K. So cash outlay is between $900 to $1.8K. You can still live your life comfortably unless you have other large committments.

As for HDB, you should sell when your penthouse TOP in 3 yrs. Then when you retire at the age of 60, sell your penthouse and buy back a 3 room HDB to cash out for retirement.

Actually my sense is that they would keep both.. using the rental from HDB to finance their apartment if they want to retire early or to use as a modified form of pension while staying at the apartment.

They can afford the purchase if everything remained the same... just that they need to have a backup plan or a lifeline to be safe. Like wearing life jackets or having insurance. The problem now is that they are naked. Just like a new born baby.. they need more injections (cash) to prepare them for the future.

No need to buy back 3rm HDB... buy a LH30 year old folk studio is better and they can rent out their apartment. Subject to eligibility conditions. If not eligible, consider other options.

gohsoonk
25-03-10, 22:27
BTW, the whole system is well protected. The bank do not release direct to the developers as well. The funds are released into a project account. The developer can only draw the money from the project account at different phases of the development.

At the end of the day, banks are not suckers. If you don’t pay, they just take back the house. The buyer has no rights to the house in the event of a payment default.

You answered it correctly “Pay all remaining sum..die liao”. We will never pay the remaining sum which is why the buyer will never pay the developer directly in parts. The developer is not a bank and they are not interested in loan business.

If the bank can stop disbursing the developer, the whole system will fail. Does not make sense.


I am not sure and you are also not sure... hopefully someone can be sure and post.

But some flaws in your reasoning... Mortagage... If banks will not stop disbursing the funds to the developer... then I will not pay and just relax when I know that the banks will not stop disbursing to the developer. Banks will never be suckers!

CPF first charge? Used to be in the past... should not be the case now.. ask your lawyers now. http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/buy-house/BH6.htm

b) Private PropertyThe CPF charge will take effect on the property when the CPF savings are released. For private residential properties bought or refinanced after 1 September 2003, the ranking of the charge is shown in the Table below:


1st Charge Outstanding housing loan from your financier


2nd Charge CPF principal sum up to 100% Valuation Limit plus CPF withdrawals used for the legal and stamp fees in the purchase


3rd Charge Equal ranking (pari passu) -CPF principal sum beyond the 100% Valuation Limit plus accrued interest -Repayment of outstanding balance of the housing loan interests


4th Charge Equal ranking (pari passu) -CPF legal costs and expenses -Financier's legal costs and expenses

Pay all remaining sum... if so die liao... more than the cost of HDB, into negative equity... die die

:doh:

cashrich
26-03-10, 09:11
Very easy. Ggo ask those firesale ex-owners.. or property agents who are familiar or the friendly bankers! Do you know the term firesale or not?

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/firesale.asp

Same goes for properties. They are like shares but just not as liquid and you can actually touch and stay in them.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Understanding-the-Bank-Repossession-Process&id=1919197

Its the same for completed and uncompleted properties. The banks will repossess when it rains. Give you a umbrella when it is sunny.

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/03/895-hdb-flats-repossessed-since-2003/

Even HDBS are not spared.

When you have money, you are respected. When you have no money... heh heh heh.

Be cashrich is also good if you place them at the right place and the right time at the right country or countries.

Condorich
26-03-10, 09:19
If the bank can stop disbursing the developer, the whole system will fail. Does not make sense.

The system will not fail.. the people will fail... they continue to pay and make each other happy... the loser shall be the owner/debtor who would lose the property and a large sum of money... the banks will put it up for cheap sales... via auction or cheap sales. The real losers will be the owner/debtor and sometimes the banks would lose as well. But the banks can recover it from somewhere else.

gohsoonk
27-03-10, 11:26
Yes, as always. The debtor will be the loser.

The banks might not be able to recover it (depending on the duration of the repayment). I talked to several bank staff (taking care of loans) in the bank during the onset of the crisis. The number of people facing payment issues during Oct 08 - Apr 09 was considerable. Some of these folks bought it at the high of 2007. The interest collected over 1-2 years was not enough to cover the valuation difference in the the property during that time. Hence, for quite a number of cases, the bank had to come up with measures such as mortgage holidays, interest payments for a limited amount of time. If the bank is required to take over the house and sell it during bad times, it is a lose-lose situation. It is executed only when it is necessary.

As long as debtors can keep paying, the bank will not want to kill the cash cow.



The system will not fail.. the people will fail... they continue to pay and make each other happy... the loser shall be the owner/debtor who would lose the property and a large sum of money... the banks will put it up for cheap sales... via auction or cheap sales. The real losers will be the owner/debtor and sometimes the banks would lose as well. But the banks can recover it from somewhere else.

gohsoonk
27-03-10, 11:28
Thank you. :)


he's being polite.



this is correct. When a buyer secures a mortgage, the risk of buyer default is no longer borne by the developer, but rather by the bank. Bank has to pay developer. It's between you and the bank for whatever valuation matters.

ocoloco79 : relax. you take a risk. so what. you both like the place, that's the most important. risk taking is one very important factor in this pty business. Some members here are so risk adverse, there is point to talk abt pty at all. Remember mortgage is the cheapest loan you can take in life. Granted a 10k income paying both a 1m pte and 300k HDB is a bit tight, it's not at all entirely reckless, considering the pte is BUC, so u really just loan 40% for most of the time before TOP. So congrats.

(read what gfoo/N2M said. the most important thing is not if u overpaid or what. It's " do you really like it ?" Personally I dun like this type. But if you like it a lot, then it's a good buy for you. )

tanumy
27-03-10, 13:49
Govt just release tender for new site at D18 due to upcoming singapore 4th uni and high rental potential. buy double bay residence for great investment.:)



Yes.. I was surprised too... normally he/she will just post 1 liners....

But amazingly.... so many lines.... too bad conclusion is the same... DBR

:doh: guess all seen too much postings by him/her on DBR

ocoloco79
27-03-10, 15:40
I chanced into some property threads at asiaone forum.. was amazed that people there are so different from the people here.. they are soooo negative, cursing and swearing the govt to take actions etc and praying and hoping to see a bubble burst.. Am amazed...so scary too..

august
27-03-10, 15:50
I chanced into some property threads at asiaone forum.. was amazed that people there are so different from the people here.. they are soooo negative, cursing and swearing the govt to take actions etc and praying and hoping to see a bubble burst.. Am amazed...so scary too..

we don't have a bubble yet, and if there is a rather tiny one
so bursting it now won't be that painful, and can in fact be healthy :p

teddybear
27-03-10, 16:59
Ha ha ha! Those must be the vocal minorities who missed the boat (or sold their properties too early at a cheap price just to be caught wrong footed) and hoping the price to crash so that they can buy cheap cheap? Since almost 90% of people in Singapore already own at least a property, no one in this 90% in their right sense of mind will hope for property to crash (except those who have not bought yet or hoping to buy another investment property cheap cheap).


I chanced into some property threads at asiaone forum.. was amazed that people there are so different from the people here.. they are soooo negative, cursing and swearing the govt to take actions etc and praying and hoping to see a bubble burst.. Am amazed...so scary too..

gfoo
27-03-10, 18:15
I chanced into some property threads at asiaone forum.. was amazed that people there are so different from the people here.. they are soooo negative, cursing and swearing the govt to take actions etc and praying and hoping to see a bubble burst.. Am amazed...so scary too..

post link leh

Regulators
27-03-10, 21:54
that forum must be for people left by the wayside after missing the boat


I chanced into some property threads at asiaone forum.. was amazed that people there are so different from the people here.. they are soooo negative, cursing and swearing the govt to take actions etc and praying and hoping to see a bubble burst.. Am amazed...so scary too..

jlrx
27-03-10, 22:24
I chanced into some property threads at asiaone forum.. was amazed that people there are so different from the people here.. they are soooo negative, cursing and swearing the govt to take actions etc and praying and hoping to see a bubble burst.. Am amazed...so scary too..

"asiaone.com Complainers' Forum" = "Straits Times Complainers' Forum", which had been around since the pre-Internet days.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/BringDownPropertyPrices19810623.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/SpeculatorsLoseMoneySoCurbThem19810.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/ProMarketForcesLetter19850110.jpg

Wild Falcon
27-03-10, 22:33
Some of these older articles are so more articulate :) And forummers in the past use fundamental analysis like rental yield to support their views. In a developed market like Singapore, rental yield cannot be ignored. Nowadays, the general discussion goes like this "Foreigners are buying - buy now in order not to miss the boat! Our price is cheaper than most expensive city Hong Kong, so buy!" :doh:

jwong71
28-03-10, 01:43
Ha ha ha! Those must be the vocal minorities who missed the boat (or sold their properties too early at a cheap price just to be caught wrong footed) and hoping the price to crash so that they can buy cheap cheap? Since almost 90% of people in Singapore already own at least a property, no one in this 90% in their right sense of mind will hope for property to crash (except those who have not bought yet or hoping to buy another investment property cheap cheap).

Gd luck to these losers.. i got a couple frd,kena ballot for hdb.. but still choosy over the floor level,facing,no balcony for smoking and price too high. no wonder mr mah wanna fxxk them over the national tv for being picky

jlrx
28-03-10, 03:57
Some of these older articles are so more articulate :) And forummers in the past use fundamental analysis like rental yield to support their views. In a developed market like Singapore, rental yield cannot be ignored. Nowadays, the general discussion goes like this "Foreigners are buying - buy now in order not to miss the boat! Our price is cheaper than most expensive city Hong Kong, so buy!" :doh:

The power of PROPERTISM is that the believers who just "buy now in order not to miss the boat!" http://www.travelguru.com/travelguide/images/icon-boat.gif, no matter how inarticulate, had been proven right time and again, whereas the non-believers, no matter how "articulate", ended up having to use their articulacy to write fake letters and astroturf http://www.uwe.ac.uk/aboutUWE/images/astroturf.jpg to try to turn back the boat http://www.travelguru.com/travelguide/images/icon-boat.gif...

The Straits Times

March 27, 2010

Honest feedback welcomed

THE Government welcomes honest public feedback on policies and issues, but is wary of online campaigns that pressure leaders to take certain actions, said Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong on Saturday.

One such campaign took place recently regarding the sizzling property market. A flood of emails called on the government to lower property prices, and threatened to withdraw support for the ruling party at the next general election if this was not done.

The emails, sent to many recipients in and outside government, were 'well-written and cogently argued', obviously by someone with knowledge of the property market, said Mr Lee.

But the identities of the writers proved to be fake. They included names of grassroots leaders purportedly from Yio Chu Kang and Pasir Ris-Punggol GRC, but these people did not exist. In the case of one who did, he was Chinese-educated and could not have written the letter.

Said PM Lee, to laughter: 'We were a bit suspicious, because the language was excellent. There was no use of Singlish.'

He was was speaking at a dialogue with about 100 active contributors to the Government's feedback arm, Reach. 'I do not know who was behind this campaign, but this was clearly not a straightforward effort to give the government honest feedback.

'Rather, it was a covert attempt to pressure the government, perhaps for personal benefit,' he said. He added: 'We must expect to see such astroturfing http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumbimg_344/1229460692qYdila.jpg campaigns from time-to-time, and learn to assess online content critically and carefully.'

Read the full story in tomorrow's edition of The Sunday

Condorich
28-03-10, 15:07
Ha ha ha! Those must be the vocal minorities who missed the boat (or sold their properties too early at a cheap price just to be caught wrong footed) and hoping the price to crash so that they can buy cheap cheap? Since almost 90% of people in Singapore already own at least a property, no one in this 90% in their right sense of mind will hope for property to crash (except those who have not bought yet or hoping to buy another investment property cheap cheap).

Quite likely... I would think that it may be mainly those new PRs, and new HDB applicants. That's why some say pity the next generation.

All existing property owners will want the price to hold and appreciate.. except for those who are buying some more properties.

Some other forums

1. http://www.myhometown.sg/
2. http://forums.asiaone.com/
3. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/
4. http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/index.php
5. http://singaporeforums.com/forum/
6. http://sgforums.com/
7. http://www.singaporepropertyforum.com/
8. http://www.iproperty.com.sg/iexpert/Question.aspx?ID=271

jlrx
29-03-10, 01:58
All existing property owners will want the price to hold and appreciate.. except for those who are buying some more properties.

Based on personal experience, the correct statement should be "All existing property owners will want the price to hold and appreciate.. including those who are buying some more properties."

It serves no purpose for property prices to come down so that I can buy cheap, if all my existing properties lose their value. :scared-4:

Nevertheless, as property prices continue to appreciate, there will be less and less room to increase my portfolio. :scared-5:

Condorich
29-03-10, 08:19
Based on personal experience, the correct statement should be "All existing property owners will want the price to hold and appreciate.. including those who are buying some more properties."

It serves no purpose for property prices to come down so that I can buy cheap, if all my existing properties lose their value. :scared-4:

Nevertheless, as property prices continue to appreciate, there will be less and less room to increase my portfolio. :scared-5:

But that is not as good as some owners who bought somemore properties after the lehman saga... if it is always buying and buying... how do they reap the gains of any correction. The art of it is to be able to stomach the correction and swallow some more... not just swallow and swallow like a whale. But if you are very rich... don't bother... just buy and buy.

ocoloco79
29-03-10, 10:16
Hi Jlrx,

Am curious, since it seems to be peak now, are you still buying? Or will you buy during this period?

teddybear
29-03-10, 10:25
Reasons for buying now:
1) If you need a roof over your head (buy those that can immediately move-in).
2) If you want to ride the current uptrend and buy an additional investment property (some people said prices too high, but my impression is the uptrend is still intact and not even reach the middle of the uptrend yet).

Reasons for not buying or selling now:
1) Too nervous whenever prices climb and hence want to lock in the profits.
2) If you have no emergency cash flow and feel insecure in case the uptrend ends too early and want to lock in profits or don't commit your cash in hand.

The worst and most detrimental thing to do now is to sell the only roof over your head. You may find that you may have to wait another 4-5 years before you have a chance to get back in again at a reasonable price. You may end up setting up tents to live in on the seaside as reported in the newspapers when rental spikes up again from foreigners inflow as IRs continue to take up more hiring as they open in stages! :banghead:


Hi Jlrx,

Am curious, since it seems to be peak now, are you still buying? Or will you buy during this period?

tanumy
30-03-10, 10:33
Better to buy now at D18 condo as good investment in terms of singapore 4th university and upcoming developement at changi business park. gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo:)




Reasons for buying now:
1) If you need a roof over your head (buy those that can immediately move-in).
2) If you want to ride the current uptrend and buy an additional investment property (some people said prices too high, but my impression is the uptrend is still intact and not even reach the middle of the uptrend yet).

Reasons for not buying or selling now:
1) Too nervous whenever prices climb and hence want to lock in the profits.
2) If you have no emergency cash flow and feel insecure in case the uptrend ends too early and want to lock in profits or don't commit your cash in hand.

The worst and most detrimental thing to do now is to sell the only roof over your head. You may find that you may have to wait another 4-5 years before you have a chance to get back in again at a reasonable price. You may end up setting up tents to live in on the seaside as reported in the newspapers when rental spikes up again from foreigners inflow as IRs continue to take up more hiring as they open in stages! :banghead:

Condorich
30-03-10, 11:01
Better to buy now at D18 condo as good investment in terms of singapore 4th university and upcoming developement at changi business park. gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo:)

Please ! What is so good about that. If you have foresight.. District 15 is a better bet!

You are now in my ignore list

tanumy
30-03-10, 15:26
due to upcoming singapore 4th uni ---- u don't know:banghead:


Please ! What is so good about that. If you have foresight.. District 15 is a better bet!

You are now in my ignore list

bargain hunter
30-03-10, 18:50
we are now under the 2nd wave of attacks. there was one wave last year, the frequency of attacks died down for awhile but is picking up again, visible in many threads! :scared-4:



Please ! What is so good about that. If you have foresight.. District 15 is a better bet!

You are now in my ignore list

tanumy
01-04-10, 00:03
serious note double bay residence offer great potential.


we are now under the 2nd wave of attacks. there was one wave last year, the frequency of attacks died down for awhile but is picking up again, visible in many threads! :scared-4:

jlrx
01-04-10, 01:33
Hi Jlrx,

Am curious, since it seems to be peak now, are you still buying? Or will you buy during this period?

I have just bought another property. :p

My previous motto was: "Properties should only be bought and not sold. Unless enblocked then quickly buy a replacement property".

Now that I think the market is getting smarter, I have to move one step ahead and the motto has changed to "... buy a replacement property even before the en bloc!".

You need to pre-empt those who may pre-empt you. :p


But that is not as good as some owners who bought somemore properties after the lehman saga... if it is always buying and buying... how do they reap the gains of any correction. The art of it is to be able to stomach the correction and swallow some more... not just swallow and swallow like a whale. But if you are very rich... don't bother... just buy and buy.

The reason I have posted so many old news clippings is to drive home the point that all these corrections whatever doesn't matter at all.

The most dangerous thing in buying properties is not buying (does that sound like a riddle?) and not the corrections.

Look at the following 1985 property classfieds (I know some members here are quite tired of looking at them but I need to drive home a point).

Does it really matter if one of these $400,000 landed houses you bought corrected by 20% and you lost $80,000? What's $80,000?

Nowadays even the COV of HDB flats is much highter than that (Reporter has just reported that a $170,000 COV confirmed for a Bishan HDB flat). :doh:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=88740&postcount=674

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/LandedHousesForSale19850521.jpg

The corrections, if they occur, only appear stressful during the here and now. But on hindsight, its actually quite irrelevant because money loses its value real fast and when COV of HDB reaches $1.7 million, you will realise that what a waste of time it was agonising over whether to buy a $1 million condo.

“The modern banking process manufactures currency out of nothing.”.
- Lord Josiah Stamp, Former Director of the Bank of England (1937)

“At the end fiat money returns to its inner value—zero.”
- Voltaire (21 November 1694 – 30 May 1778)

tanumy
01-04-10, 02:56
where u bought n which district.




I have just bought another property. :p

My previous motto was: "Properties should only be bought and not sold. Unless enblocked then quickly buy a replacement property".

Now that I think the market is getting smarter, I have to move one step ahead and the motto has changed to "... buy a replacement property even before the en bloc!".

You need to pre-empt those who may pre-empt you. :p



The reason I have posted so many old news clippings is to drive home the point that all these corrections whatever doesn't matter at all.

The most dangerous thing in buying properties is not buying (does that sound like a riddle?) and not the corrections.

Look at the following 1985 property classfieds (I know some members here are quite tired of looking at them but I need to drive home a point).

Does it really matter if one of these $400,000 landed houses you bought corrected by 20% and you lost $80,000? What's $80,000?

Nowadays even the COV of HDB flats is much highter than that (Reporter has just reported that a $170,000 COV confirmed for a Bishan HDB flat). :doh:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=88740&postcount=674

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/LandedHousesForSale19850521.jpg

The corrections, if they occur, only appear stressful during the here and now. But on hindsight, its actually quite irrelevant because money loses its value real fast and when COV of HDB reaches $1.7 million, you will realise that what a waste of time it was agonising over whether to buy a $1 million condo.

“The modern banking process manufactures currency out of nothing.”.
- Lord Josiah Stamp, Former Director of the Bank of England (1937)

“At the end fiat money returns to its inner value—zero.”
- Voltaire (21 November 1694 – 30 May 1778)

jlrx
01-04-10, 05:00
where u bought n which district.

Unfortunately not your favourite D18, because I already have one around there (but mine is nearer to East Coast Park and the city) to take advantage of the Changi Business Park, 4th University etc.

My objective is to distribute my properties around Singapore so that I feel "at home" everywhere I go (except the west and north east which is frequently condemned by the "Pollutionism Expert" Mr. Regulator :scared-3:).

Which is something you cannot do with shares (you cannot even touch and feel your shares).

That's why real estate is still the best investment because it is "real" and you can touch and feel it and it will not suddenly crash to ZERO or near ZERO (which happens quite often to stocks).

ocoloco79
01-04-10, 20:52
Its already 100% sold out!! :scared-4:

2824
01-04-10, 21:31
wah somebody just swallowed the penthouse like that :scared-4:

ocoloco79
02-04-10, 10:21
That is why i got a shock! The rest of the penthouses not cheap.. close to 1.5 mil.. if I am not wrong, cos left with only 3 brm penthouses.. unit facing also not good cos face the back, all bushes...

Condorich
02-04-10, 13:52
Makes it easier for you isn't it.

Anyway the next thing to watch out for is the sub sale results.

Lastly, will be the very first moment you step into your unit.

Congrats :)

cashrich
03-04-10, 15:44
That is why i got a shock! The rest of the penthouses not cheap.. close to 1.5 mil.. if I am not wrong, cos left with only 3 brm penthouses.. unit facing also not good cos face the back, all bushes...

Can anyone share about another project 999 yrs Mint Residence @ Jansen, 3 room duplex, TOP 8/2009 10 Mins to Kovan MRT, $950K 97571385 Straits times classified today.

Which is better?

ocoloco79
04-04-10, 19:35
Can anyone share about another project 999 yrs Mint Residence @ Jansen, 3 room duplex, TOP 8/2009 10 Mins to Kovan MRT, $950K 97571385 Straits times classified today.

Which is better?

That is very very cheap for a 3 room duplex! My 2 rm duplex already cost 953K, so what are you waiting for?

tanumy
05-04-10, 19:06
buy double bay residence.




That is very very cheap for a 3 room duplex! My 2 rm duplex already cost 953K, so what are you waiting for?

Reporter
15-04-10, 17:25
$1,111 psf is 1 good start for Primo Residences!


Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of March 2010
Project Name ... Locality . Units Sold To Date . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
Primo Residences . OCR ....... 63 ........................ 63 ......................... 1,111 ........... 996 .............. 869

ocoloco79
15-04-10, 19:22
$1,111 psf is 1 good start for Primo Residences!


Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of March 2010
Project Name ... Locality . Units Sold To Date . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
Primo Residences . OCR ....... 63 ........................ 63 ......................... 1,111 ........... 996 .............. 869

hihi, May I know which website did you get this info from?? Thanks!!!

Reporter
15-04-10, 19:34
hihi, May I know which website did you get this info from?? Thanks!!!
http://www.ura.gov.sg/real_estate/main.jsp
"Prices of Units Sold in Private Residential Properties"

Blue
21-04-10, 17:07
where u bought n which district.

This is the first time I spot Tanumy not pushing Double Bay!!! :D

Blue
21-04-10, 17:09
Please ! What is so good about that. If you have foresight.. District 15 is a better bet!

You are now in my ignore list

oh yes, D15 rocks!

Blue
21-04-10, 17:13
I chanced into some property threads at asiaone forum.. was amazed that people there are so different from the people here.. they are soooo negative, cursing and swearing the govt to take actions etc and praying and hoping to see a bubble burst.. Am amazed...so scary too..

Those are the ones who missed the boat or have not bought anything and will likely not buy anything in the foreseeable future bec they only know how to talk but no actions. Property investment is about guts (cos you need to get out of your comfortable zone and increase financial gearing aka borrow more debts) and foresight (to spot a potential area / development which offers you maximum gain with minimise risk).

Blue
21-04-10, 17:18
That is very very cheap for a 3 room duplex! My 2 rm duplex already cost 953K, so what are you waiting for?

I'm a penthouse lover - alfresco dining, bbq, steamboat, jacuzzi, and eating mooncakes under the full moon. This is wat I call living in style!

Pizza88
22-04-10, 12:02
I'm a penthouse lover - alfresco dining, bbq, steamboat, jacuzzi, and eating mooncakes under the full moon. This is wat I call living in style!

Living in a penthouse is hot... I just sold mine. Cannot stand the hot weather.

Blue
07-05-10, 12:42
Living in a penthouse is hot... I just sold mine. Cannot stand the hot weather.

Your penthouse is hot, but certainly not mine as it comes with unblocked view, well ventilated, and it's windy all the time! :spliff:

Ultimately, it depends in the facing, design and view. Non-penthouses can be very warm and stuffy too if faced in the wrong direction.

devilplate
07-05-10, 12:49
I'm a penthouse lover - alfresco dining, bbq, steamboat, jacuzzi, and eating mooncakes under the full moon. This is wat I call living in style!

Yeah...when u utilise the addtional roof terrace well....the 'extra' u paid for is well spent while others deem it as wasted space....y pay extra and PES, roof terrace r not included in the GFA!

Well, I enjoyed my big patio and yard as well! :cheers6:

ocoloco79
07-05-10, 15:03
Good to hear positive feedback about living in Penthouse! By the way, I am very excited. A neighbour of primo just PM me! I thought I am the only one who bought primo in this forum :D

Blue
18-05-10, 13:42
Good to hear positive feedback about living in Penthouse! By the way, I am very excited. A neighbour of primo just PM me! I thought I am the only one who bought primo in this forum :D

I would decorate the roof terrace into an outdoor spa retreat!

ocoloco79
18-05-10, 18:22
I would decorate the roof terrace into an outdoor spa retreat!

Provided it is unblock.. The downside of this project is that the units are facing each other and quite near too :( Not much privacy.. Unblock view can only be achieved at the side views...

See the pic of showflat you will understand what I am saying..There goes my outdoor spa..

Blue
21-05-10, 11:06
Provided it is unblock.. The downside of this project is that the units are facing each other and quite near too :( Not much privacy.. Unblock view can only be achieved at the side views...

See the pic of showflat you will understand what I am saying..There goes my outdoor spa..

Outdoor spa not necessarily you need to strip till naked, can always wear a bikini to enjoy sun tanning / jacuzzi mah...or you can build a trellis with bamboo blinds / bamboo plants for more privacy...remember to invite me to peep hor :p

Blue
21-05-10, 11:09
You can build this on your rooftop. WOW!

http://www.aramsaspas.com/pics/actfac_spafurama_1.jpg

http://static.divaasia.com/action/PageImage/4240.jpg

ocoloco79
22-05-10, 11:08
Outdoor spa not necessarily you need to strip till naked, can always wear a bikini to enjoy sun tanning / jacuzzi mah...or you can build a trellis with bamboo blinds / bamboo plants for more privacy...remember to invite me to peep hor :p

Good idea on the bamboo plants! Thanks!

Serendipity
10-06-10, 22:53
Updates for Primo Residences for those who are vested.
Looks like have to get ready for next payment of 10% for completion of foundation works by Sep.:D

ocoloco79
11-06-10, 08:19
Thank you for the updates!! Can't wait for it to be completed :D

ocoloco79
04-11-10, 21:04
Updates! The workers told me that they are digging the pool and constructing the lift :D

kingkong1984
04-11-10, 21:38
Horrible messs. Now at least but might look better when done.

Serendipity
17-12-10, 14:24
First sub-sale for this project after 6 months:

PRIMO RESIDENCES
JALAN PELIKAT
Apartment
1 unit
$698,560
592sqft
Strata
$1,180psf
Sep-10

sleek
17-12-10, 14:32
Address PSF Area Sqft Price Contract Date
203 Jalan Pelikat #02-15 $1180 592 $698k 30 Sep 10
203 Jalan Pelikat #02-15 $977 592 $578k 29 Mar 10



First sub-sale for this project after 6 months:

PRIMO RESIDENCES
JALAN PELIKAT
Apartment
1 unit
$698,560
592sqft
Strata
$1,180psf
Sep-10

mcmlxxvi
17-12-10, 15:52
120k in 6 mths for OCR .... Not bad.

devilplate
17-12-10, 16:49
700k for a 1bedder very high quantum...cool

kingkong1984
17-12-10, 18:00
120k in 6 mths for OCR .... Not bad.
Anywhere is gold when u have the gold

Serendipity
17-12-10, 22:05
Considering he has only paid the first 20% at the point of sale which is abt $100K - $110K to get $120K profit in 6 mths. Even minus away the SSD, lawyer fees, cancellation charge and agent comm, it is still abt 80-90% ROI. Not bad indeed.

ocoloco79
19-12-10, 07:11
First sub-sale for this project after 6 months:

PRIMO RESIDENCES
JALAN PELIKAT
Apartment
1 unit
$698,560
592sqft
Strata
$1,180psf
Sep-10

Hi Serendipity,

Where and how did u get this info??? Have been wanting to know if there is any sub sales and how much can it fetch but to no avail.. Thanks!:D

Serendipity
20-12-10, 13:03
Hi Serendipity,

Where and how did u get this info??? Have been wanting to know if there is any sub sales and how much can it fetch but to no avail.. Thanks!:D
I got it at the URA website : http://www.ura.gov.sg/realEstateWeb/realEstate/pageflow/transaction/TransactionController.jpf

You need to select the project name in order to check but the URA website does not reveal the exact floor and unit number of the transacted unit.
I think some of the forumers got their info from Streetsine which indicates the unit number, the price purchased and sold. However i think Streetsine needs to pay/subscribe, i being a cheapskate S'porean prefers the free URA site though not as good.:spliff:

ay123
20-12-10, 13:22
Hi Serendipity,

Where and how did u get this info??? Have been wanting to know if there is any sub sales and how much can it fetch but to no avail.. Thanks!:D

use this better....can see exactly what unit transact at what price

http://www.streetsine.com/

ocoloco79
20-12-10, 21:52
Thank you, but how come you know the unit number is #02-15???

Okok I just checked streetsine and saw the unit number :D I din pay or subscribe, but I can see! But how come I cannot find my unit?

ocoloco79
20-12-10, 22:15
Btw, Tho in the brochure TOP is in dec 2013, it is stated at the notice board completion by Aug 2011. Is this ever possible?? They only started the works in May 2010. Really possible to complete 64 units in just one year??

devilplate
21-12-10, 00:16
Btw, Tho in the brochure TOP is in dec 2013, it is stated at the notice board completion by Aug 2011. Is this ever possible?? They only started the works in May 2010. Really possible to complete 64 units in just one year??

can....low rise possible

parc imperial launched in last april and completed in june

ocoloco79
21-12-10, 08:14
can....low rise possible

parc imperial launched in last april and completed in june

Thank you, I kpo checked out Parc imperial in propertyguru. Very good Buy! Freehold and next to MRT 2br penthouse only at about 1kpsf. Moreover it is already subsale.

kingkong1984
30-12-10, 17:13
Thank you, I kpo checked out Parc imperial in propertyguru. Very good Buy! Freehold and next to MRT 2br penthouse only at about 1kpsf. Moreover it is already subsale.

Yup, but better to go for the smallest unit..

Serendipity
04-01-11, 22:52
Another 2 sub-sale in Dec.
Heard both were swallowed by a single buyer.

203 Jalan Pelikat #04-12
Freehold
$1178
603
$710k
09 Dec 10
203 Jalan Pelikat #02-06
Freehold
$1137
818
$930k
09 Dec 10

ocoloco79
05-01-11, 16:55
OMG, why is everybody selling their primo away? :beats-me-man:



Another 2 sub-sale in Dec.
Heard both were swallowed by a single buyer.

203 Jalan Pelikat #04-12
Freehold
$1178
603
$710k -- They bought at $606400
09 Dec 10
203 Jalan Pelikat #02-06
Freehold
$1137
818
$930k -- They bought at $814700
09 Dec 10

kingkong1984
05-01-11, 16:57
Not bad right? Got buyers mah.

ocoloco79
05-01-11, 17:00
#04-12 profit =$103600

#02-06 profit = $115300

mantrix
05-01-11, 17:43
#04-12 profit =$103600

#02-06 profit = $115300

that's gross profit...haven't minus off lawyer fees, stamp duties, penalties (bank and government measures) etc right?

If not then profit maybe 70-80K (which is still not bad!!) :spliff:

Serendipity
05-01-11, 22:35
[quote=ocoloco79]OMG, why is everybody selling their primo away? :beats-me-man:

I think its normal for them to sell.
This project got a lot of 1/1+1 units and i think majority of those who bought into such units are for investments; either for rental yield or they wished to flip before TOP due to low quantum.

Got sub-sale means this project has its own selling points that appeal to the new buyer and allow these investors to do flipping thus I think there's no need to be alarmed.

ocoloco79
17-01-11, 20:44
Latest progress...

Serendipity
19-01-11, 10:21
Thanks for the update...
Judging from the progress and the current incessant rain recently, I wonder if the stated end August TOP date is really achievable...

Ocoloco, by the way, have you received the bank's call for the 1st 10% for installment payment?
I find it weird that i have not received anything yet.
Free IAS without paying additional 3% more? :)

ocoloco79
19-01-11, 17:35
NO, I didn't receive anything too! I tot it is becos I have moved and just updated my address thru the lawyers. Shall we update each other once we got it? Relieved to know that it is normal... Hopefully Primo can be completed by august..

Serendipity
19-01-11, 22:23
Sure, if I received it, i'll be sure to inform you.
Meanwhile lets wait patiently...

ocoloco79
20-01-11, 17:02
Happened to pass by Kovan Grandeur and after checking it out, 99 yrs, further away from MRT plus more expensive, I am certain that I must keep Primo. I will ask my agent to shut up if he calls to tempt me to sell again.

devilplate
20-01-11, 19:04
Happened to pass by Kovan Grandeur and after checking it out, 99 yrs, further away from MRT plus more expensive, I am certain that I must keep Primo. I will ask my agent to shut up if he calls to tempt me to sell again.

self comforting? re-assurance?:D

kingkong1984
20-01-11, 19:19
It's call siting on the fence, no backbone, led by the nose by agent friend. Dun be surprised it is sold later.

ocoloco79
21-01-11, 19:39
It's call siting on the fence, no backbone, led by the nose by agent friend. Dun be surprised it is sold later.

Cos agent saying that many's strategy is selling now and buying later lor.. But anyway, I will stay firm.

kingkong1984
21-01-11, 20:08
Agent get commission, why buy and sell and kana stamp? Your eyes got stamp? In love with stamp? Just hold till top then decide. Like it keep it, dun like it get rid of it and move on.

ocoloco79
24-01-11, 17:01
Comparing Primo's progress with Kovan grandeur http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=16891934&l=7308587dc5&id=673175243

Think Primo progress is reali slow.. Better dun pin too high hopes that it will be completed this Aug..

kingkong1984
11-06-11, 11:36
how's the progress?

hyenergix
11-06-11, 15:44
Prob TOP by end of this year or early next year. The blocks are really close to one another. And the swimming pool is really baby pool size.

kingkong1984
11-06-11, 16:14
Prob TOP by end of this year or early next year. The blocks are really close to one another. And the swimming pool is really baby pool size.

must upload pics

hyenergix
11-06-11, 20:32
No pics but they are separated by about the width of basketball court... at least from the view outside.

kingkong1984
11-06-11, 20:42
No pics but they are separated by about the width of basketball court... at least from the view outside.

ok. I will take a look when I am free.

One firesale hidden there. Go and explore and try low ball.

hyenergix
11-06-11, 20:50
Be careful if you are investing for rental. Just above Kovan MRT there are tons of full-scale condos, plus the entire stretch of upper serangoon from the city are all filled with full-scale condos with much better facilities. I'm sure many pp are investing there for rental too. For this one there is only a very small swimming pool plus very small gym.

kingkong1984
11-06-11, 21:30
Be careful if you are investing for rental. Just above Kovan MRT there are tons of full-scale condos, plus the entire stretch of upper serangoon from the city are all filled with full-scale condos with much better facilities. I'm sure many pp are investing there for rental too. For this one there is only a very small swimming pool plus very small gym.

no wonder need to fire sale

ocoloco79
20-06-11, 10:11
must upload pics

Here you go! Vested here for own stay. Thinking of selling but since it is our only roof, so not possible at the moment. Dun feel like continuing staying with in laws till market crash, so will go ahead to stay and hope we don't lose too much if we wanna sell in future. Thinking of getting another one bedder when price crashes in 2013-2014, so we will not be stucked with the only roof.

devilplate
20-06-11, 10:15
noticed trees r touching part of the building....quite jialat for those units

the location quite cosy leh....cul de sac:D

ocoloco79
20-06-11, 10:21
Sharing some showflats pics. And the surrounding pics.

devilplate
20-06-11, 10:23
how big is the pool? 20X5?

ocoloco79
20-06-11, 10:29
Biggest draw of the project in my opinion: Very quiet. Freehold. Beside Park with fitness corner so good for morning exercise(free facilities). Very walkable to MRT with shelthered walkway specially built from the park to Kovan central. Shall take pics of the shelthered walkway and post soon.

Biggest con: stated as above. Block too near to each other. No facilities except a baby pool as shown.