View Full Version : Need Advices from all experts here!!
Hi, I am first timer to have my own condo and it will be ready next year first Quarter, now my dilemma is should i sell away my HDB and move in to the condo. The condo i already pay up the 30% and the rest i paying by installment.
My wife and I have a stable job which allow me to use CPF to pay up the HDB (left 4yrs to pay which i took 10yrs HDB loan).And i do take the experts advice to keep 1yrs household saving in case for emergency. The condo I can pay by cash even hit up to 4% interest rate in future after i calculate also wont hit 35% of my household income. So now i not sure should i rent out my HDB or sell my HDB because all my friends tell me different view so i hope to come this forum and seek for some professional advices. Thanks a million!!!
Similar situation as yours in 2 years time so will be good to hear some advices too. :cool:
keep the HDB and rent it out ... passive income!
mightyleftfoot
23-11-09, 09:24
You sounds like you made some workings on your finances already.
Maybe just a bit more considerations that can help swing the vote either way:
- Consider inflation rate
- Consider if your future earnings can keep up (they can go up or down)
- Consider if your household expenditures may go up or down
btw, 35% in my view is a big stretch, if u want to play it safe, keep it below 25%. Otherwise, sell the HDB.
Hi, I am first timer to have my own condo and it will be ready next year first Quarter, now my dilemma is should i sell away my HDB and move in to the condo. The condo i already pay up the 30% and the rest i paying by installment.
My wife and I have a stable job which allow me to use CPF to pay up the HDB (left 4yrs to pay which i took 10yrs HDB loan).And i do take the experts advice to keep 1yrs household saving in case for emergency. The condo I can pay by cash even hit up to 4% interest rate in future after i calculate also wont hit 35% of my household income. So now i not sure should i rent out my HDB or sell my HDB because all my friends tell me different view so i hope to come this forum and seek for some professional advices. Thanks a million!!!
HDB price is good now, sell it, keep the bullets for future investment.
proud owner
23-11-09, 09:29
Hi, I am first timer to have my own condo and it will be ready next year first Quarter, now my dilemma is should i sell away my HDB and move in to the condo. The condo i already pay up the 30% and the rest i paying by installment.
My wife and I have a stable job which allow me to use CPF to pay up the HDB (left 4yrs to pay which i took 10yrs HDB loan).And i do take the experts advice to keep 1yrs household saving in case for emergency. The condo I can pay by cash even hit up to 4% interest rate in future after i calculate also wont hit 35% of my household income. So now i not sure should i rent out my HDB or sell my HDB because all my friends tell me different view so i hope to come this forum and seek for some professional advices. Thanks a million!!!
KEEP the HDB ... rent it out ...
but if you like the HDB location ...and if the condo rental yield is better .. rent out the condo ...
KEEP the HDB ... rent it out ...
but if you like the HDB location ...and if the condo rental yield is better .. rent out the condo ...
My HDB in Punggol, No kindergarten for my kids (Q for 2yrs still waiting list), so moving to the condo and enroll the kindergaten there already. So dun think will rent out the condo due to the kids' education.
THANKS for all advices so far btw!!
proud owner
23-11-09, 09:35
My HDB in Punggol, No kindergarten for my kids (Q for 2yrs still waiting list), so moving to the condo and enroll the kindergaten there already. So dun think will rent out the condo due to the kids' education.
THANKS for all advices so far btw!!
i strongly advise to keep the HDB ...
The_Way_I_See_It
23-11-09, 09:35
Hi, I am first timer to have my own condo and it will be ready next year first Quarter, now my dilemma is should i sell away my HDB and move in to the condo. The condo i already pay up the 30% and the rest i paying by installment.
My wife and I have a stable job which allow me to use CPF to pay up the HDB (left 4yrs to pay which i took 10yrs HDB loan).And i do take the experts advice to keep 1yrs household saving in case for emergency. The condo I can pay by cash even hit up to 4% interest rate in future after i calculate also wont hit 35% of my household income. So now i not sure should i rent out my HDB or sell my HDB because all my friends tell me different view so i hope to come this forum and seek for some professional advices. Thanks a million!!!
You and your spouse apparently are in a very good, envious and comfortable position, financially. It's clear that you die die (sorri for lingo) must stay in your condo and thinking hard how to deal with your HDB (sell /rent). Your HDB has only 4 years left and can be paid thru CPF.
Do you have special attachment for that HDB flat ? (eg personally ID-touch, very convenient, good neighbourhood, food, neighbour etc)
Must you die die sell your HDB (eg. too good capital appreciation to miss, $$$ can pay for % of condo mortgage, $$ for other investment opportunities etc)
if in good location ,perhaps the HDB rent can pay for itself next 4 years
Can always hold your HDB to collect your alternative income while deciding later on. Sometime, no decision is the best decision.:D
For me, it depends on the HDB rental yield. I will keep HDB for rental if rental yield @ selling price (not your original purchase price) is above 4.5%. Use your HDB rental to pay for your condo's installment. This is especially so if your HDB is within 500m of an MRT and there is a big development project nearby (e.g. university, casinos) that potentially will boost HDB resale price / rental in the near future.
It depends on when you bought your condo. If you just bought it and your LTV is still 70%, then i would sell your HDB, accumulate the monies for heavy rain.
I will agree to keep HDB if it is of a good location or good yield.
But for Punggol, the supply looks like going to be big, espeically with Punggol 21 plan. People would like to stay near the waterway. I suppose yours is far off from the Punggol 21.
As such, it will be good to liquidate for a better investment
Regulators
23-11-09, 10:25
Sell your hdb in punggol and buy another one in a matured estate near mrt. look for estates with limited supply of flats near mrt to ensure it is easy for u to offload next time. punggol is in an oversupply situation so a risk for you to rent out at a low price. if you currently have 4rm sell it and buy a 3 rm and if you have a 5 rm, sell it to buy a 4rm using the excess to reduce ur condo mortgage.
My HDB in Punggol, No kindergarten for my kids (Q for 2yrs still waiting list), so moving to the condo and enroll the kindergaten there already. So dun think will rent out the condo due to the kids' education.
THANKS for all advices so far btw!!
Sell your hdb in punggol and buy another one in a matured estate near mrt. look for estates with limited supply of flats near mrt to ensure it is easy for u to offload next time. punggol is in an oversupply situation so a risk for you to rent out at a low price. if you currently have 4rm sell it and buy a 3 rm and if you have a 5 rm, sell it to buy a 4rm using the excess to reduce ur condo mortgage.
What if tha matured estate will have a new DBSS & Condo expected to TOP within a couple of years time? :beats-me-man:
Regulators
23-11-09, 12:21
for hdbs, flats within 400m frm mrt will always be in hi demand. It doesnt matter how many dbss units hdb builds coz locatn is still e most impt. The bees will always flock to the area rich in nectar n that is near the town centres n mrt be it rental or sale. People buy into lifestyle these days n they will pay gd money to get a gd locatn that fits into their lifestyle
What if tha matured estate will have a new DBSS & Condo expected to TOP within a couple of years time? :beats-me-man:
My HDB in Punggol, No kindergarten for my kids (Q for 2yrs still waiting list), so moving to the condo and enroll the kindergaten there already. So dun think will rent out the condo due to the kids' education.
THANKS for all advices so far btw!!
Punggol? Sell. Return not significant. Unit trust or CPFIS may beat it.
Regulators mentioned buy another matured HDB which sound great but you need to dispose your private and wait 30mths UNLESS resale and non-hdb loan which again eat into your margin. (Let not factor in the current low sibor)
Buy another private? Correction maybe coming.
Keep cash? Inflation is highly possible and could be contagious and you could hurt yourself without hedging.
Perhaps you could donate to charity and secure a place in heaven.. But huh.. cannot cannot, you sell HDB proceed back to OA + accured interest and CPF can't donate.
How.. hmmm.. maybe, just maybe you could just free up cash by paying some legal and have CPF proceed from HDB to cover your condo which is eligible.
Then incorporate a company, register as a GST trader and buy commercial property with the cash. After you are ready for 3rd venture, park all assets under company to level the taxation and buy a re-sale 3rms and enjoy your retirement.
wahahhahahah...
Sell your hdb in punggol and buy another one in a matured estate near mrt. look for estates with limited supply of flats near mrt to ensure it is easy for u to offload next time. punggol is in an oversupply situation so a risk for you to rent out at a low price. if you currently have 4rm sell it and buy a 3 rm and if you have a 5 rm, sell it to buy a 4rm using the excess to reduce ur condo mortgage.
I did the above.
1) Sold my 5 room in Punggol. (1 LRT stop away from MRT but what the heck! There are so many new ones coming up next to MRT.)
2) Bot a resale 3 room in AMK that is facing Bishan Park with convenient amenities nearby. (3 bus stops away from AMK hub/ MRT.)
3) Now patiently waiting for the TOP of my OCR condo.
4) Will keep my HDB when condo TOP
5) Rent out the one with higher rental yields or sell the condo if the capital gains prove too good to resist.
Maninthestreet
23-11-09, 13:04
Keep the HDB confirm (if can afford 2 houses), no need 2nd thoughts...and dun change IC address...even if you dun really live in the hdb flat...all government rebates or other aids usually look at your residential address...hdb occupiers often enjoy max govt money...:D
If you have only 1 house (the HDB) and intend to buy a condo for own stay, then you should keep the HDB.
My rationale is that it gives greater flexibility to your allocation of capital and locking in of capital gains.
Going back in time to 2007, you have only 1 Condo, and your condo appreciated by 100%, you have only 1 option, to sell the condo to lock in the gains and then have to immediately scurry for another accomodation. That accomodation if you are buying will cost you more and takes away your gain.
But if you had your HDB and Condo, you could lock in the condo gain and moved out the HDB renters at a cost but you can take your own sweet time to search for a house.
Pls be aware of a very important rule in CPF that is often overlooked.
"You must first set aside half of the prevailing Minimum Sum before you can use the excess CPF savings in your Ordinary Account for the second and subsequent properties. Savings in the Special Account (including the amount used for investments) and Ordinary Account can be used to meet this required amount. "
http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/hybrid/Themes/CPF/related.asp?MesId=5106580&FolderID=0&Selected=7&CSRId=&SourceId=0
> You need to have at least half the minimum sum (~S59K now) before you can use your CPF to pay for your second property (condo).
Pls be aware of a very important rule in CPF that is often overlooked.
"You must first set aside half of the prevailing Minimum Sum before you can use the excess CPF savings in your Ordinary Account for the second and subsequent properties. Savings in the Special Account (including the amount used for investments) and Ordinary Account can be used to meet this required amount. "
http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/hybrid/Themes/CPF/related.asp?MesId=5106580&FolderID=0&Selected=7&CSRId=&SourceId=0
> You need to have at least half the minimum sum (~S59K now) before you can use your CPF to pay for your second property (condo).
Haha....there is actually a way to avoid this. :)
Think in this direction:
Co-ownership does not equate to compulsory co-financing by both husband and wife.
i will keep the hdb first and sell later. Punggol still haven't reached it's full potential yet, selling it now, will not realised that value. but that will also depends on the rental yield too.
Property_Owner
23-11-09, 14:12
Hi, I am first timer to have my own condo and it will be ready next year first Quarter, now my dilemma is should i sell away my HDB and move in to the condo. The condo i already pay up the 30% and the rest i paying by installment.
My wife and I have a stable job which allow me to use CPF to pay up the HDB (left 4yrs to pay which i took 10yrs HDB loan).And i do take the experts advice to keep 1yrs household saving in case for emergency. The condo I can pay by cash even hit up to 4% interest rate in future after i calculate also wont hit 35% of my household income. So now i not sure should i rent out my HDB or sell my HDB because all my friends tell me different view so i hope to come this forum and seek for some professional advices. Thanks a million!!!
Mistake No 1, you took a 10 years HDB loan. Dun forget the compound interest u br having when u sell your hbd in years to come. Ihmo, HDB loan should be max out to be the best.
Hi, I am first timer to have my own condo and it will be ready next year first Quarter, now my dilemma is should i sell away my HDB and move in to the condo. The condo i already pay up the 30% and the rest i paying by installment.
My wife and I have a stable job which allow me to use CPF to pay up the HDB (left 4yrs to pay which i took 10yrs HDB loan).And i do take the experts advice to keep 1yrs household saving in case for emergency. The condo I can pay by cash even hit up to 4% interest rate in future after i calculate also wont hit 35% of my household income. So now i not sure should i rent out my HDB or sell my HDB because all my friends tell me different view so i hope to come this forum and seek for some professional advices. Thanks a million!!!
I think you have to sell your HDB, Correct me if I'm wrong, by HDB regulation, you cannot stay in condo and rent HDB. You must stay in HDB and rent out the condo.
Hi, I am first timer to have my own condo and it will be ready next year first Quarter, now my dilemma is should i sell away my HDB and move in to the condo. The condo i already pay up the 30% and the rest i paying by installment.
My wife and I have a stable job which allow me to use CPF to pay up the HDB (left 4yrs to pay which i took 10yrs HDB loan).And i do take the experts advice to keep 1yrs household saving in case for emergency. The condo I can pay by cash even hit up to 4% interest rate in future after i calculate also wont hit 35% of my household income. So now i not sure should i rent out my HDB or sell my HDB because all my friends tell me different view so i hope to come this forum and seek for some professional advices. Thanks a million!!!
Never sell anything. Unless you are planning to exchange it for another flat elsewhere.
Our Minister Adm Lui Tuck Yew already said that HDB prices are going to keep rising non-stop until they reach the Moon (well, he didn't actually say that, but how else do you intepret the following report).
Straits Times
Nov 23, 2009
Timing of HDB tax hike 'avoids bigger increases later'
By Sue-Ann Chia, Senior Political Correspondent
THE property tax of HDB flats is being raised next year partly to avoid having to introduce a bigger increase later should home prices continue to rise, said Acting Minister for Information, Communications and the Arts Lui Tuck Yew.
I think you have to sell your HDB, Correct me if I'm wrong, by HDB regulation, you cannot stay in condo and rent HDB. You must stay in HDB and rent out the condo.
jus heard from an agent now can stay condo and rent hdb. rule changed!!
i will keep the hdb first and sell later. Punggol still haven't reached it's full potential yet, selling it now, will not realised that value. but that will also depends on the rental yield too.
Can anyone teach me how to calculate rental yield?
i bought my house at near 250k, now valuation is 400k, can rent out between 1800 to 2200. (lowest to highest rate this few mths)
Thanks for ALL Advices again, very useful and let me use my brain again.
Can anyone teach me how to calculate rental yield?
i bought my house at near 250k, now valuation is 400k, can rent out between 1800 to 2200. (lowest to highest rate this few mths)
Thanks for ALL Advices again, very useful and let me use my brain again.
let say you rent $2000, $2k x 12mths=$24k
you can sell your flat at $400k
the rental yield would be $24k/$400k x 100 = 6%
let say you rent $2000, $2k x 12mths=$24k
you can sell your flat at $400k
the rental yield would be $24k/$400k x 100 = 6%
That's why not worth to sell at 400k. Where else can u get stable 6% yield nowadays, FD is below 1%, interest rate will stay low due to fear of deflation at G7. Even government thinks rental will stay high by jacking up property tax.
The only factor calling for "sell" is probably location far from MRT, and the oversupply situation at Punggol & the risk of deflationary spiral at G7 (which looks increasingly unlikely).
If my flat near MRT at mature town and I am servicing based on 2.6% rate from HDB ... will not sell until rental yield drop to 4.5%.
jus heard from an agent now can stay condo and rent hdb. rule changed!!
confirmed it is true, jus checked hdb website. thks.
That's why not worth to sell at 400k. Where else can u get stable 6% yield nowadays, FD is below 1%, interest rate will stay low due to fear of deflation at G7. Even government thinks rental will stay high by jacking up property tax.
The only factor calling for "sell" is probably location far from MRT, and the oversupply situation at Punggol & the risk of deflationary spiral at G7 (which looks increasingly unlikely).
If my flat near MRT at mature town and I am servicing based on 2.6% rate from HDB ... will not sell until rental yield drop to 4.5%.
true in certain way... let say you can rent $2k per mth and earned $24k a year. After 10 years, you have earned $240k if rent is still the same. And 10 years later, I bet your punggol HDB flat valuation will still be around
$400k or even higher as punggol will become mature estate. But thats in thoery. In real life renting of flat come with some troubles like problem tenant, problem of finding of tenant etc.
not to forget that as the flat gets older, you need to renovate it (even if it costs $10k) to attract new tenants.. that negates ur rental income.
I would think property rental is just to keep the dream alive(ie pay the installment) until an appropriate time for you to cash out from significant capital appreciation.
Consideration should be the allocation of capital to the house that you think will give the greater capital appreication. Rental Yield is secondary. For example, I am living in a 20-30yr old HDB in AMK that is fetching $600k+ on the market. But now I have a chance to get duxton or queenstown at around 600k for a new flat, I will switch to the new flat. So I have extended the life of my HDB by another 20yrs without costing me anything plus the potential for appreciation is greater. (Maybe it will be smaller, but it will still have the same number of rooms and you can attract tenants who are willing to pay more for a new flat at a good location)
new2mondrian
23-11-09, 19:14
Few things to consider:
1) You have sufficient minimum sum in you and your spouse CPF accounts? If not, the condo has to be serviced in cash. Then the next question naturally is - do u have sufficient cash to service the monthly installment, even with the assumption that no rental income might be obtained from your HDB for considerable length of time?
2) If you cash out now, can the $$$ be used to finance a better property? Or rather, do you expect Punggol to have significant appreciation in prices (eg move from $400k to $500k) in time to come, given large tracts of Punggol is still undeveloped and the existing HDB developments are away from the major waterway devts?
3) The tenant profile for the HDB market is typically foreign workers, skewed towards the China Chinese who will squeeze 8 people into 1 flat. That's how they can cough up the $2K rental. One couple rents it from you, stay in the MBR with their kids, and sublet bedroom 2 to another couple for $500, and bedroom 3 to another couple for $500. The state of your flat after 2 years will be different. You must be prepared for this reality. You just need to take a stroll ard SengKang where many Chinese nationals congregate - u will get the pic pretty soon.
As to whether u wish to rent or sell, at the end of the day it is a personal decision. The returns are good, but for a flat in Punggol, I'd personally cash out now and buy a property elsewhere. The main waterway devt in Punggol is not in existing HDB devt areas; and there is just too much land for HDB housing.... which means there are always newer, better, and more ideally located (with better views of the over-hyped Punggol waterway) flats being available for sale from the Govt. You rent your unit for another 4 years, it would be a 10-12 years HDB flat located in a place where there will be a continuous stream of launches. You just cannot beat 'em.
At the end of the day, property is all about location, location and location. And THEN tenure tenure tenure. If urs is a freehold unit in Punggol (which is flooded with 99-year tenure devts), then it would be a different story again.
My 2 cents.
Regulators
23-11-09, 22:14
well done, that is the way to do it ! when TOP, live in condo and enjoy the facilities, using HDB rental to sustain ur lifestyle there (of course depending on ur monthly instalment for condo). The govt owes that to you...
I did the above.
1) Sold my 5 room in Punggol. (1 LRT stop away from MRT but what the heck! There are so many new ones coming up next to MRT.)
2) Bot a resale 3 room in AMK that is facing Bishan Park with convenient amenities nearby. (3 bus stops away from AMK hub/ MRT.)
3) Now patiently waiting for the TOP of my OCR condo.
4) Will keep my HDB when condo TOP
5) Rent out the one with higher rental yields or sell the condo if the capital gains prove too good to resist.
Property_Owner
24-11-09, 08:32
Sell your punggol ahgogo flats. Buy somewhere else better. Take out a 30 years loan. Continue to stay in ur condo
Maninthestreet
24-11-09, 09:09
confirmed it is true, jus checked hdb website. thks.
Hi Nochoice, I went to HDB website and found these:
HDB flats sold under the Home Ownership Scheme are meant for owner-occupation by the owners and their families. However, flat owners may sublet their whole flat or spare rooms if they meet the eligibility conditions.
To sublet the whole flat, prior approval from HDB is needed. For subletting of rooms, no approval from HDB is required but flat owners must continue to live in the flat during the period of subletting and comply with other subletting conditions.
Eligibility of Flat Owners
You have satisfied a 3-year or 5-year Minimum Occupation Period (MOP)
You are allowed to sublet your whole flat if :
You have occupied your non-subsidised flat (flat purchased from the open market without a CPF housing grant) for at least 3 years; or
You have occupied your subsidised flat (flat purchased directly from HDB or from the open market with a CPF housing grant) for at least 5 years.If you do not meet the MOP for subletting, you are still allowed to sublet your whole flat if you fall under any one of the following circumstances :
You are living in quarters provided by employer
You are going overseas to work or study
You are living in commercial properties
Other circumstances
You are the sole owners and occupiers of the flats and need care from relatives because of illness; or You are the sole owners and occupiers of the flat and are hospitalised for more than six months; or
The flat owners have passed away and left behind an orphaned minor child (i.e. child under 21 years of age). The guardian or public trustee of the minor child may sublet the whole flat.Sorry if i took up too much space cutting and pasting...the thing is I am currently staying in a pte prop, and wishes to buy a HDB flat to rent it out as a whole (yield better mah)...a few years back, i also checked and found that HDB do not allow such activities. One can buy a HDB from resale market, but need to stay in there and rent out the pte prop instead. I supposed the reasoning is the aim of HDB is to provide affordable housing for low to middle income folks, not to faciliate subletting businesses.
Then recently, i did come across news article mentioning HDB has relaxed the rules allowing subletting of whole HDB flats while owners are staying in pte prop.
From the HDB website, seems HDB still have many criteria to fulfil before allowing such activity (such as the 3 year stay in rule).
My question is: Can I buy a HDB from resale market now and rent it out as a whole right away? Has the rule been relaxed to this extent?
Can any experts advise? Thanks in advance. MITS
Sell your punggol ahgogo flats. Buy somewhere else better. Take out a 30 years loan. Continue to stay in ur condo
Agree... sell your Punggol flat now at Value to 20k at least (assuming you are between 11 -15 floor... and near enuf to LRT/ MRT)
If you wait another 5 years to sell, you may face lots of competition from those new flats that are at surrounding of the MRT station... it'll be harder to sell cos yr flat will be older and not as near to the Punggol central and MRT.
But for the hdb loan for 30 years if you buy resale ...... you may not be able to qualify for the loan at all if your family combine income is more than $8k.
Of cos, u will need to declare u have a pte pty when you buy a re-sale hdb flat....
[quote=new2mondrian]Few things to consider:
2) If you cash out now, can the $$$ be used to finance a better property? Or rather, do you expect Punggol to have significant appreciation in prices (eg move from $400k to $500k) in time to come, given large tracts of Punggol is still undeveloped and the existing HDB developments are away from the major waterway devts?
The main waterway devt in Punggol is not in existing HDB devt areas; and there is just too much land for HDB housing.... which means there are always newer, better, and more ideally located (with better views of the over-hyped Punggol waterway) flats being available for sale from the Govt. You rent your unit for another 4 years, it would be a 10-12 years HDB flat located in a place where there will be a continuous stream of launches. You just cannot beat 'em.
[quote]
Precisely... this is exactly why I sold...
But I'll consider Punggol again in 15 years time when they fully develop the area, especially the part near the waterway and better still, around Coney Island! (To prep for retirement!)
The only thing I enjoy in punggol is the peace in the day and the fresher air due to the breeze from the sea..... if you are observant, you can actually spot beautiful migrant birds in the morning!
Then recently, i did come across news article mentioning HDB has relaxed the rules allowing subletting of whole HDB flats while owners are staying in pte prop.
From the HDB website, seems HDB still have many criteria to fulfil before allowing such activity (such as the 3 year stay in rule).
My question is: Can I buy a HDB from resale market now and rent it out as a whole right away? Has the rule been relaxed to this extent?
Can any experts advise? Thanks in advance. MITS
Ans is - Cannot... must still stay 3 years before legal rent out...
Maninthestreet
24-11-09, 10:04
Ans is - Cannot... must still stay 3 years before legal rent out...
Wakatta...Thanks mate!
let say you rent $2000, $2k x 12mths=$24k
you can sell your flat at $400k
the rental yield would be $24k/$400k x 100 = 6%
I look at your situation a bit differently.
1) Since you only paid 240k and not the currrent valuation of 400k.
Your actual rental yeild works out to be $24k/$240k x 100= 10%:scared-4: Even if rental falls, you will still get a pretty decent yield.
2) The profit you make by selling now is 160k. Worse case situaition is that there is an oversupply in punggol flats and the price drops back to 240k forgoing your gains. Assuming you can get tenants, this loss can be offset by renting out your flat for 6 plus years.
After 6 plus years you can still get rental income of 24k per year so your upside is higher than the 160k profit that you will have by cashing out now.
3) Since you bought your HDB at a low price, you are in a strong position to grow your wealth. It is unlikely that the price of punggol will drop back to 240k so your downside risk is very small and any potential loss can be coverd by your rental.
Becuase you have bought a private property while still owning a hdb flat, the other option of relocating or downgrading your hdb flat is out. The next best course of action is to hold your hdb flat for rental due to your low purchase price and high rental yield provided you have the cash flow and meet the cpf minimul sum or can pay by cash.
Also do the maths and max out your hdb punggol HDB loan to 30 years. Dun worry about the interest you will be paying, your rental more than makes up for it. If you do it right you will have 2 fully paid up houses down the road and can look to buy a third. :)
I look at your situation a bit differently.
1) Since you only paid 240k and not the currrent valuation of 400k.
Your actual rental yeild works out to be $24k/$240k x 100= 10%:scared-4: Even if rental falls, you will still get a pretty decent yield.
2) The profit you make by selling now is 160k. Worse case situaition is that there is an oversupply in punggol flats and the price drops back to 240k forgoing your gains. Assuming you can get tenants, this loss can be offset by renting out your flat for 6 plus years.
After 6 plus years you can still get rental income of 24k per year so your upside is higher than the 160k profit that you will have by cashing out now.
3) Since you bought your HDB at a low price, you are in a strong position to grow your wealth. It is unlikely that the price of punggol will drop back to 240k so your downside risk is very small and any potential loss can be coverd by your rental.
Becuase you have bought a private property while still owning a hdb flat, the other option of relocating or downgrading your hdb flat is out. The next best course of action is to hold your hdb flat for rental due to your low purchase price and high rental yield provided you have the cash flow and meet the cpf minimul sum or can pay by cash.
Also do the maths and max out your hdb punggol HDB loan to 30 years. Dun worry about the interest you will be paying, your rental more than makes up for it. If you do it right you will have 2 fully paid up houses down the road and can look to buy a third. :)
Thanks for the advices, i cannot extend to 30yrs again becoz at the first place i chose to pay in 10yrs, so what i can do is to pay another 4 yrs to fully own the house. BTW thanks for teaching me how to calculate the rental yield it really useful.
Property_Owner
24-11-09, 21:42
Thanks for the advices, i cannot extend to 30yrs again becoz at the first place i chose to pay in 10yrs, so what i can do is to pay another 4 yrs to fully own the house. BTW thanks for teaching me how to calculate the rental yield it really useful.
sell ur current hbd, get a resale with 30yrs loan. do u know what is compound interest???
John is correct in calculating the rental yield. annual rent/purchase price
I look at your situation a bit differently.
1) Since you only paid 240k and not the currrent valuation of 400k.
Your actual rental yeild works out to be $24k/$240k x 100= 10%:scared-4: Even if rental falls, you will still get a pretty decent yield.
2) The profit you make by selling now is 160k. Worse case situaition is that there is an oversupply in punggol flats and the price drops back to 240k forgoing your gains. Assuming you can get tenants, this loss can be offset by renting out your flat for 6 plus years.
After 6 plus years you can still get rental income of 24k per year so your upside is higher than the 160k profit that you will have by cashing out now.
3) Since you bought your HDB at a low price, you are in a strong position to grow your wealth. It is unlikely that the price of punggol will drop back to 240k so your downside risk is very small and any potential loss can be coverd by your rental.
Becuase you have bought a private property while still owning a hdb flat, the other option of relocating or downgrading your hdb flat is out. The next best course of action is to hold your hdb flat for rental due to your low purchase price and high rental yield provided you have the cash flow and meet the cpf minimul sum or can pay by cash.
Also do the maths and max out your hdb punggol HDB loan to 30 years. Dun worry about the interest you will be paying, your rental more than makes up for it. If you do it right you will have 2 fully paid up houses down the road and can look to buy a third. :)
proud owner
24-11-09, 23:16
John is correct in calculating the rental yield. annual rent/purchase price
what if you paid ..say 240k and spent 50k in renovation ?
woould you use 290k ? for the calculation ?
I assume yours is a hdb loan. You can refinace with a bank and get a 30 yrs or longer loan. some banks loan to you till you are 70 yrs old. The only setback is rental is an income, you have to pay more for your income tax
Thanks for the advices, i cannot extend to 30yrs again becoz at the first place i chose to pay in 10yrs, so what i can do is to pay another 4 yrs to fully own the house. BTW thanks for teaching me how to calculate the rental yield it really useful.
when you buy, you have pay stamp duty and legal fees etc
sell ur current hbd, get a resale with 30yrs loan. do u know what is compound interest???
I should use gross rental yield.
For nett rental yield: (annual rent - expenses)/ purchase price
example of expenses include agent comm, MCST management fund, sinking fund, town council etc
In your case, I would add in the renovation cost in purchase price to get my nett rental yield
what if you paid ..say 240k and spent 50k in renovation ?
woould you use 290k ? for the calculation ?
Kawailing, after reading all the post here, only you can decide what to do, you have to weigh all the pros and cons, and decide what is best for you.
For me, property investment is all about capital appreciation or ROI, rental is secondary, if rental can pay for 2 property, very good.
My take, go for location regardless pte or hdb
PS, for multiple properties, have to take cpf minimum sum into considersation
correction, for your case, after the 4th yr, your rental is declared as 100% income
I assume yours is a hdb loan. You can refinace with a bank and get a 30 yrs or longer loan. some banks loan to you till you are 70 yrs old. The only setback is rental is an income, you have to pay more for your income tax
Thanks for the advices, i cannot extend to 30yrs again becoz at the first place i chose to pay in 10yrs, so what i can do is to pay another 4 yrs to fully own the house. BTW thanks for teaching me how to calculate the rental yield it really useful.
If you took a hdb loan, just go down to the branch office and ask them to change the loan period to 30 years.
If you are confident to pay off in 4 years that would be good. But I personally will try to clear off my condo loan first and let the hdb loan run for 30 years.
Hi guys,
Please accept my apologies for resurrecting this thread. Stumbled upon this thread which reflects the dilemma which i am facing at the moment.
I have fulfilled the HDB 5-year rule and likewise am weighing the advantages/disadvantages of renting or selling my flat at Jurong West (bought at $170k, valued now at $400k). Based on HDB's statistic, median rental rate here is $2k.
On paper, it makes a lot of economical sense to use the flat rental as a passive income and buy myself a private apartment. However, the price has been creeping up in the last quater and i have been priced out of my desired area.
Does it then still make sense to rent out my flat and jump into the current unpredictable fundamental-less private property market?
Hi guys,
Please accept my apologies for resurrecting this thread. Stumbled upon this thread which reflects the dilemma which i am facing at the moment.
I have fulfilled the HDB 5-year rule and likewise am weighing the advantages/disadvantages of renting or selling my flat at Jurong West (bought at $170k, valued now at $400k). Based on HDB's statistic, median rental rate here is $2k.
On paper, it makes a lot of economical sense to use the flat rental as a passive income and buy myself a private apartment. However, the price has been creeping up in the last quater and i have been priced out of my desired area.
Does it then still make sense to rent out my flat and jump into the current unpredictable fundamental-less private property market?
How much does your family unit earn, and how much loan/quantum you gonna need to take for your pte property?
How much does your family unit earn, and how much loan/quantum you gonna need to take for your pte property?
Household income (without rental income) is currently at $8k.
I am only going to take a max loan of $450k.
Household income (without rental income) is currently at $8k.
I am only going to take a max loan of $450k.
forgive me if i'm wrong. i'm assuming you are in your very early 30s. your capital gains and residual cpf is not much. you are looking at a suburban smallish 1-2 bedder condo no?
first blush you may not hv enuff buffer, and mass mkt is now at v risky prices. i would stay put and be worry free
of course if you are taking only 50-70% loan and repayments do not exceed 20% gross then you can take a risk if you're buying to stay
forgive me if i'm wrong. i'm assuming you are in your very early 30s. your capital gains and residual cpf is not much. you are looking at a suburban smallish 1-2 bedder condo no?
first blush you may not hv enuff buffer, and mass mkt is now at v risky prices. i would stay put and be worry free
of course if you are taking only 50-70% loan and repayments do not exceed 20% gross then you can take a risk if you're buying to stay
No worries. You are right in a number of areas. I am in my late 20s. My CPF is quite healthy as the installment for the flat is very low. I was looking for a freehold 2bedder (buying to stay) for $650k but have been priced out since.
It's so difficult to "predict" the market and the mass market condo are surging to the 2007 prices. This is the reason why i am currently holding back my decision.
No worries. You are right in a number of areas. I am in my late 20s. My CPF is quite healthy as the installment for the flat is very low. I was looking for a freehold 2bedder (buying to stay) for $650k but have been priced out since.
It's so difficult to "predict" the market and the mass market condo are surging to the 2007 prices. This is the reason why i am currently holding back my decision.
my thoughts is, singapore is breaking into new territory to attract international buying (through the IR and other attractions), if this succeeds, property price (high end) is likely to break into new height.
At the bottom, HDB price is more or less stabilize at the current level due to inflow of foreigners and surge in population. This will form support for mass market condo prices.
3rd factor, the world is on the recovery from recession (Property prices in HK and CN may be very high or "bubble" level), unless there is another major event that hit us for double dip. this recovery will be carefully monitor by all governments (as the european and american are on the same recovery boat).
the above already give good indication that price will either maintain at current level or move upward.
To me, HDB price has already near its max value, there will always be a cap on HDB pricing to satisfy the ppl, so it will be good time to jump the bandwagon from HDB to private. Choose a traditionally popular location on the city fringe (inside the city will be too expensive for you) where you can still find gems at reasonable price (resale units).
Forget about suburb new condo, those have been overpriced. and price movement at suburb is also limited.
Just committed another FH 3 bedder at D15. Bank just up their home loan package.
my thoughts is, singapore is breaking into new territory to attract international buying (through the IR and other attractions), if this succeeds, property price (high end) is likely to break into new height.
..........
..........
Just committed another FH 3 bedder at D15. Bank just up their home loan package.
Err ... "committed another FH 3-bedder at D15"?
You're a East-Coast "Property_Collector"? Just kiddin'. Cool! :cool1:
my thoughts is, singapore is breaking into new territory to attract international buying (through the IR and other attractions), if this succeeds, property price (high end) is likely to break into new height.
At the bottom, HDB price is more or less stabilize at the current level due to inflow of foreigners and surge in population. This will form support for mass market condo prices.
3rd factor, the world is on the recovery from recession (Property prices in HK and CN may be very high or "bubble" level), unless there is another major event that hit us for double dip. this recovery will be carefully monitor by all governments (as the european and american are on the same recovery boat).
the above already give good indication that price will either maintain at current level or move upward.
The factors paints a very good picture for the coming years, but it also the same reason why sellers and developers are pushing the prices up so rapidly. Some of the units that i have seen has increased their asking price by 30% since May 09 (especially D15 and D16). I know the sellers are trying to bank in the profits in the event of a double dip in 2010.
I am more wary about the uncertainty of the rise in interest rate which will impact the maket.
I am very tired of waiting for prices to be reasonable..
is it a good time to buy a marina bay or sentosa cove condo?
I don't want to be left behind.. help....
Tony Tan said that next 10 yrs could be golden years for Asia ... I take his words seriously. 1986-1996 is the best 10y for SG properties, 1997-2006 bad 10 years ... so could it be that 2007-2016 the best of the best 10y :D
It is simple, if GDP growth > 5%, median salary up, coupled with high inflation rate and limited lands, property has only one direction - up.
Property_Owner
20-01-10, 14:20
I am very tired of waiting for prices to be reasonable..
is it a good time to buy a marina bay or sentosa cove condo?
I don't want to be left behind.. help....
That depends on how much u want to invest with. Less then 2 million go for Bay. Lots of choices. 3 million above gamble it in Sentosa.
Why marina bay or sentosa cove only? Many other places available depending on your budget.
I am very tired of waiting for prices to be reasonable..
is it a good time to buy a marina bay or sentosa cove condo?
I don't want to be left behind.. help....
Err ... "committed another FH 3-bedder at D15"?
You're a East-Coast "Property_Collector"? Just kiddin'. Cool! :cool1:
Pal, i am far from the word "collector". :)
but i strongly believe D15 has not realised its full potential due to the many old developments.
The factors paints a very good picture for the coming years, but it also the same reason why sellers and developers are pushing the prices up so rapidly. Some of the units that i have seen has increased their asking price by 30% since May 09 (especially D15 and D16). I know the sellers are trying to bank in the profits in the event of a double dip in 2010.
I am more wary about the uncertainty of the rise in interest rate which will impact the maket.
my personal opinion is, even if the interest rate rises, it will not be drastic as the whole world is still trying hard to recover from recession. But it is good to, always maintain a some cash/cpf buffer to avoid surprises.
Definitely, there are many sellers asking for sky high price. but there are also serious seller. just make it a habit to scan classified, iproperty, propertyguru each day. go for house viewing to understand seller's baseline. at current market, you cant ask for huge discount, but as long as price is reasonable at current market rate, and is not lousing unit (like low floor or lousy facing, etc) i will consider it a good buy.
There is always risk involved. Buy now or wait further for double dip.. it depends on which risk you can stomach. missing the boat or holding on to the property.
Property_Owner
20-01-10, 14:54
Why marina bay or sentosa cove only? Many other places available depending on your budget.
I guess most people want to own a unit there to show their statues.
I guess most people want to own a unit there to show their statues.
I am more interested in the marina bay and sentosa cove units 'coz i believed in the hype that if singapore is successful in remaking itself into a "Monaco".. These 2 places will be the most expensive in singapore..
Property_owner owned and stayed in Sentosa cove rite? ... If I buy for investment, do you think can rent out ? .. Coz Marina seems to be easier to rent out for working expats.. whereas those who stay in sentosa seems to be the type that don't need to work one...
Oh..btw... A doc heard from one of her patient (who is a successful businessman) that in march ..there might be impending govt measures to tighten the ppty market..(bizman heard from another govt insider in the ppty market regulation) and bizman mentioned all his friends are selling now.. and buying back later..
Dunno how true.. but I take it with a pinch of salt.. Anyone else heard this type of rumours..
Property_Owner
20-01-10, 15:19
I am more interested in the marina bay and sentosa cove units 'coz i believed in the hype that if singapore is successful in remaking itself into a "Monaco".. These 2 places will be the most expensive in singapore..
Property_owner owned and stayed in Sentosa cove rite? ... If I buy for investment, do you think can rent out ? .. Coz Marina seems to be easier to rent out for working expats.. whereas those who stay in sentosa seems to be the type that don't need to work one...
Oh..btw... A doc heard from one of her patient (who is a successful businessman) that in march ..there might be impending govt measures to tighten the ppty market..(bizman heard from another govt insider in the ppty market regulation) and bizman mentioned all his friends are selling now.. and buying back later..
Dunno how true.. but I take it with a pinch of salt.. Anyone else heard this type of rumours..
Do expect yield to be terribly low for maybe next 1 year or so. Some owners dun even bother to rent out a all. Just leave it vacant. It depends on how urgent u wan the rental to come in. Be advice to top ujp a bit for installment. Also get a fix loan, sibor think creeping up soon. :doh:
Guess a person has to be careful because recently it was reported that condo owners are not regarded as on equal statues as landed owners in Sentosa (hint hint from the mouth of the landed owner being interviewed). :scared-1:
I guess most people want to own a unit there to show their statues.
No need rumours lah, Govt has always stepped in to slow the rise and the measure is always aimed at the mass markets and HDBs (Note the word "slow" (but not to make it fall), but rise is rise and people still make money. The next time they do something, property owners will be very happy because from now to then for them to take action means prices must have gone up significantly again.
I am more interested in the marina bay and sentosa cove units 'coz i believed in the hype that if singapore is successful in remaking itself into a "Monaco".. These 2 places will be the most expensive in singapore..
Property_owner owned and stayed in Sentosa cove rite? ... If I buy for investment, do you think can rent out ? .. Coz Marina seems to be easier to rent out for working expats.. whereas those who stay in sentosa seems to be the type that don't need to work one...
Oh..btw... A doc heard from one of her patient (who is a successful businessman) that in march ..there might be impending govt measures to tighten the ppty market..(bizman heard from another govt insider in the ppty market regulation) and bizman mentioned all his friends are selling now.. and buying back later..
Dunno how true.. but I take it with a pinch of salt.. Anyone else heard this type of rumours..
Property_Owner
20-01-10, 15:42
Oh..btw... A doc heard from one of her patient (who is a successful businessman) that in march ..there might be impending govt measures to tighten the ppty market..(bizman heard from another govt insider in the ppty market regulation) and bizman mentioned all his friends are selling now.. and buying back later..
Sometimes to survive you have to go against e odds. But no one knows the future. If I can predict all.....I would had bought whole stack of Sail.
Confirm SIBOR creeping up. 12 mth SIBOR that is.
moneyspinner
20-01-10, 15:46
Sometimes to survive you have to go against e odds. But no one knows the future. If I can predict all.....I would had bought whole stack of Sail.
Wow, buying the whole stack of Sail. That's something!!!!!!!!!!!!
:scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:
Property_Owner
20-01-10, 15:54
Wow, buying the whole stack of Sail. That's something!!!!!!!!!!!!
:scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:
I mean last time lei. If I knew prices will chong so much in 07 during launch will buy 1 stack....stack 19 will do. keke
moneyspinner
20-01-10, 16:04
I mean last time lei. If I knew prices will chong so much in 07 during launch will buy 1 stack....stack 19 will do. keke
Can share share what's your secret to accummulate so much wealth or not? Need to really learn from the MASTER!:doh:
so the general consensus is that renting out your HDB flat and to buy and stay in a condo (within your budget) is good to go?
so the general consensus is that renting out your HDB flat and to buy and stay in a condo (within your budget) is good to go?
As long as your monthly housing repayments (HDB AND PRIVATE) are 30% of your take home ncome. You should be ok.
I would not count the hdb rent as there is no garantee that this income will come in consistently.
Do expect yield to be terribly low for maybe next 1 year or so. Some owners dun even bother to rent out a all. Just leave it vacant. It depends on how urgent u wan the rental to come in. Be advice to top ujp a bit for installment. Also get a fix loan, sibor think creeping up soon. :doh:
Thanks :)
Would be good to have yield to support the loan.
If not, I would be able to pay for the installment without the loan too.
Hmm.. ok.. like you say.. when everyone thinks it is going to correct... you bite the bullet and take a contrarian stand?.. :)
Back to my thinking board..keke
Property_Owner
20-01-10, 18:07
Thanks :)
Would be good to have yield to support the loan.
If not, I would be able to pay for the installment without the loan too.
Hmm.. ok.. like you say.. when everyone thinks it is going to correct... you bite the bullet and take a contrarian stand?.. :)
Back to my thinking board..keke
I guess we come to a stage for those that bought Bay area and Sentosa knows that rental can't support the installment. Remember the latest sail unit that I posted for a 2 bdrm sold @ 305xpsf, abt 2.6 plus million. Even if he can get 6k for rental..yield is only abt 2.7%. Please note Sail rental only abt $6psf to $6.50psf max max. Let's say next player comes in to purchase @ 3400psf after IR is up, his yield will be reduced to 2.3%. Will Sail hit 4000psf? I don't want to know the answer.
Be warn, risk is always there. Play safe.
think worst case - assume prices correct by 20% and banks ask for topup, and if you can still payback and keep yoir usual buffer, then by all means.
if you require rent to cover another property's financing and do not have a buffer, it's a huge risk
unlike many in here, poorer folks like me prefer to be safe - dun play stocks, dun gamble - just purely PMs and property i can afford
proud owner
20-01-10, 22:26
I am very tired of waiting for prices to be reasonable..
is it a good time to buy a marina bay or sentosa cove condo?
I don't want to be left behind.. help....
the best time to buy property is when :
you can afford .. and
you like what you see
I am very tired of waiting for prices to be reasonable..
is it a good time to buy a marina bay or sentosa cove condo?
I don't want to be left behind.. help....
I thought you were going to buy a FH landed property at East Coast or Seletar? :confused:
How come now switch focus to Marina Bay or Sentosa Cove?
You are not very "focused". :p
The danger of public housing... is ... got higher probability of neighbours setting their flats on fire when they want to end their life.
That's why my family decided to move on to landed properties but still looking...keke..
For my case, the alert came when some stupid addict dunno do what at one of the levels and accidentally set fire to the lobby area.
how about sentosa cove :o
Money no enough..
I'm satisfied with FH land in east coast or seletar ..
I thought you were going to buy a FH landed property at East Coast or Seletar? :confused:
How come now switch focus to Marina Bay or Sentosa Cove?
You are not very "focused". :p
Hehe.. FH landed is for own stay.. and that one will take forever with my parents being those super particular type... my budget only max $3mil for own stay ..and those $3mil location and land is not particular attractive.. seems like $4-5mil is the sweet spot for nice location and nice house...
Marina Bay/Sentosa is for investment.. different... :). .so can buy anything in $2mil to $3mil range also..
But you are right..i'm not focus.. that's why i nicked myself FOCUS.. keke... to remind myself..
and also.. my wishy washy is cause this is my first time buying residential properties...(staying in HDB with fantastic view to my parents and amenities at my doorstep) and it is a big leap from buying shares..
Hehe.. FH landed is for own stay.. and that one will take forever with my parents being those super particular type... my budget only max $3mil for own stay ..and those $3mil location and land is not particular attractive.. seems like $4-5mil is the sweet spot for nice location and nice house...
Regarding the $4-5mil is "sweet spot" for nice location and nice house ...
What type of house are you looking at? Terrace, Semi-D or Bungalow?
Is it old type or newly-built?
How many storeys?
Around what area?
Regarding the $4-5mil is "sweet spot" for nice location and nice house ...
What type of house are you looking at? Terrace, Semi-D or Bungalow?
Is it old type or newly-built?
How many storeys?
Around what area?
Just East Coast and Serangoon and Seletar Hills.. Those $4mil Semi-Ds is around 4000sqft and newly built..
Usually around $2-3mil is around 2000sqft - 3000sqft newly built. They average $900-1000 psf for Serangoon/Seletar but more for East Coast now.
Never keep track for a month already... as I got tired going house hunting
Never keep track for a month already... as I got tired going house hunting
Not only tiring, but also quite stressful ... throw cheque, reject, throw again ... :scared-3:
That's why I check with you (let you do the legwork while I just become armchair house hunter). :spliff:
But no choice, I think I'll have to get out of my armchair again very soon. :p
Regulators
21-01-10, 02:29
Focus, dont mind me saying but i find it a bit odd. you have accumulated quite a fair bit and living in a hdb with your parents all this while to only start looking for a property to buy now? You have been in this forum long enough to know that this is not the appropriate time to be buying property now and count the number of boats you have missed since day one when you joined this forum and entered into discussions here...:doh:
Hehe.. FH landed is for own stay.. and that one will take forever with my parents being those super particular type... my budget only max $3mil for own stay ..and those $3mil location and land is not particular attractive.. seems like $4-5mil is the sweet spot for nice location and nice house...
Marina Bay/Sentosa is for investment.. different... :). .so can buy anything in $2mil to $3mil range also..
But you are right..i'm not focus.. that's why i nicked myself FOCUS.. keke... to remind myself..
and also.. my wishy washy is cause this is my first time buying residential properties...(staying in HDB with fantastic view to my parents and amenities at my doorstep) and it is a big leap from buying shares..
Property_Owner
21-01-10, 08:16
Focus, dont mind me saying but i find it a bit odd. you have accumulated quite a fair bit and living in a hdb with your parents all this while to only start looking for a property to buy now? You have been in this forum long enough to know that this is not the appropriate time to be buying property now and count the number of boats you have missed since day one when you joined this forum and entered into discussions here...:doh:
Focus is also a ''卧虎藏龙''? Hmmm..... Stay HDB(Likely to drive a Bimmer with a HDB season parking tag) looking for a 3m landed for own stay with spare cash of another 3 m to invest?
This guy likely to be in his 30s only....
new2mondrian
21-01-10, 09:53
I am very tired of waiting for prices to be reasonable..
is it a good time to buy a marina bay or sentosa cove condo?
I don't want to be left behind.. help....
Focus, you are pretty unbelievable.... after so long in this forum, you are still sitting on your $6M cash pile and waiting for prices "to be reasonable"?!!!
Okie dokie... For one, prices of landed have really gone up tremendously. In Feb 09, $1.4M can get a FH inter-terrace at Ming Teck Park D10 (I was so close to buying, and owner was willing to close at $1.38M, but I hesitated and thought.. and missed the boat), in Aug 09, $1.2M - $1.4M can get an inter-terrace along West Coast D5 or Opera Estate D15. But now, $1.4M can probably get a same-sized inter-terrace along Sembawang/Yio Chu Kang (D20-27). In short, what a difference 1 year makes. Will it go up further? Or will it come down again? Nobody knows.
The same goes for apt/condos. But $6M is no small sum. For this amt, I'd rather place my bets on a good sized (ie 5500sqft and above) semi-detached along D10/D11. Go for the land... not the built up. You have the moolah, can always rebuild. Look for squarish plots with wide frontage, and not at T-junctions. When it comes to landed, the Chinese towkays (who are your potential buyers when you wish to offload) can get real superstitious about the fengshui element.
Property is all about holding power. Singapore has strong fundamentals and property will hold its intrinsic value over the long term. Forget about short term market fluctuations and go for the long term big picture, esp IF you are in your 30s.
My 2 cents.
Regulators
21-01-10, 10:47
I have seen an owner in bt panjang driving a Nissan GTR and I am starting to wonder. A person driving a $230k car and living in a $350k home? I also saw another owner driving a BMW Z4 and living in a $3xxk HDB flat in Bukit Batok. So far have not seen a HDB flat owner driving a Ferrari, Porsche or Lambo
Focus is also a ''卧虎藏龙''? Hmmm..... Stay HDB(Likely to drive a Bimmer with a HDB season parking tag) looking for a 3m landed for own stay with spare cash of another 3 m to invest?
This guy likely to be in his 30s only....
Oh..btw... A doc heard from one of her patient (who is a successful businessman) that in march ..there might be impending govt measures to tighten the ppty market..(bizman heard from another govt insider in the ppty market regulation) and bizman mentioned all his friends are selling now.. and buying back later..
patience patience ...
I have seen an owner in bt panjang driving a Nissan GTR and I am starting to wonder. A person driving a $230k car and living in a $350k home? I also saw another owner driving a BMW Z4 and living in a $3xxk HDB flat in Bukit Batok. So far have not seen a HDB flat owner driving a Ferrari, Porsche or Lambo
Marine parade has a few maseratis and porsches. lambos and ferraris cannot clear mscp ramp maybe that's why
Seems to me there is a lot of boasting here....No hard feelings if that hurts anybody.
Seems to me there is a lot of boasting here....No hard feelings if that hurts anybody.
They ain't boasting what they cars they own lah. They're just telling the rest what cars they see in the HDB carparks.
Relac, OK? No hard feelin'!
Anyway, let's blame it on Focus. (Just kiddin' :D)
We all thought we have successfully convinced him months ago. Some even led him by example. It now turns out he has been sitting on the news, tips, advices, etc. and letting his $6.00 depreciated.
Seems to me there is a lot of boasting here....No hard feelings if that hurts anybody.
a bit obvious rite?
They ain't boasting what they cars they own lah. They're just telling the rest what cars they see in the HDB carparks.
Relac, OK? No hard feelin'!
Anyway, let's blame it on Focus. (Just kiddin' :D)
We all thought we have successfully convinced him months ago. Some even led him by example. It now turns out he has been sitting on the news, tips, advices, etc..
i dun think he's referring to the cars :) lol
i dun think he's referring to the cars :) lol
Oh! Not car?
The rest? The rest are just facts right?
I have been in this forum long enough to tell billshits and facts.
louisebrown
21-01-10, 13:09
They ain't boasting what they cars they own lah. They're just telling the rest what cars they see in the HDB carparks.
Relac, OK? No hard feelin'!
Anyway, let's blame it on Focus. (Just kiddin' :D)
We all thought we have successfully convinced him months ago. Some even led him by example. It now turns out he has been sitting on the news, tips, advices, etc. and letting his $6.00 depreciated.
$6.00 is an obvious slight.
Oh! Not car?
The rest? The rest are just facts right?
I have been in this forum long enough to tell billshits and facts.
lol.... let people tell the stories they want lah.
sometimes forums will need entertainment too otherwise too serious also boring
lol.... let people tell the stories they want lah.
sometimes forums will need entertainment too otherwise too serious also boring
... I was quietly enjoying my reading and learning in this thread until "tayv" distupted it with his offensive remark ...
Now, I lost an opportunity to learn! Fedup!
... I was quietly enjoying my reading and learning in this thread until "tayv" distupted it with his offensive remark ...
Now, I lost an opportunity to learn! Fedup!
saw "Reporter" Mcdonald MONOPOLY picture......suddenly link "Propertism" to "Monopoly" game. Propertism paper gain in capital appreciation is just like winning in monopoly game where you own so many house but all are monopoly $$$$$.......cannot enjoy...:p .....no offend to "Propertism"......just a side joke:D
anyways i'm quite pessimistic lately, dunno why - am repeating what i did in June 2008.
this month alone, i've sold my SG flat, and just accepted an offer for my JB landed (breakeven), and have put my KL flat (breakeven) on the market. I've also repriced my SG loans to fixed rate 1.98% for at least 2 years.
I've sold 100% of my stock holdings and converted them into physical gold and UOB silver passbook
I'm shifting from eating out at restaurants to tahpowing from food courts, and imposed a moratorium on lux purchases. I'm shifting from VPower to 98, and getting mobile polishing than groomwerkz.
The only thing I'm looking to buy is a studio at the Sail but only if the price is right.
dun follow me, i siao one. super kiasu
anyways i'm quite pessimistic lately, dunno why - am repeating what i did in June 2008.
this month alone, i've sold my SG flat, and just accepted an offer for my JB landed (breakeven), and have put my KL flat (breakeven) on the market. I've also repriced my SG loans to fixed rate 1.98% for at least 2 years.
I've sold 100% of my stock holdings and converted them into physical gold and UOB silver passbook
I'm shifting from eating out at restaurants to tahpowing from food courts, and imposed a moratorium on lux purchases. I'm shifting from VPower to 98, and getting mobile polishing than groomwerkz.
The only thing I'm looking to buy is a studio at the Sail but only if the price is right.
dun follow me, i siao one. super kiasu
... but you are still staying in The Sail rite?
Property_Owner
21-01-10, 15:20
anyways i'm quite pessimistic lately, dunno why - am repeating what i did in June 2008.
this month alone, i've sold my SG flat, and just accepted an offer for my JB landed (breakeven), and have put my KL flat (breakeven) on the market. I've also repriced my SG loans to fixed rate 1.98% for at least 2 years.
I've sold 100% of my stock holdings and converted them into physical gold and UOB silver passbook
I'm shifting from eating out at restaurants to tahpowing from food courts, and imposed a moratorium on lux purchases. I'm shifting from VPower to 98, and getting mobile polishing than groomwerkz.
The only thing I'm looking to buy is a studio at the Sail but only if the price is right.
dun follow me, i siao one. super kiasu
There's one siao agent waiting for u today. I called his up for his Sail #4x-02 selling 2400psf. Give him a good F for wasting my time.
... but you are still staying in The Sail rite?
never selling, only adding. the whole area is still super underpriced.
There's one siao agent waiting for u today. I called his up for his Sail #4x-02 selling 2400psf. Give him a good F for wasting my time.
all tok kok one. got one muthafkr also advertised $950psf for carribean couple of weeks back. waste my time go down sell me developer units for $1350.
TS i'm waiting for a super low flr, fcked up view, garbage facing POS studio.
anyways i'm quite pessimistic lately, dunno why - am repeating what i did in June 2008.
this month alone, i've sold my SG flat, and just accepted an offer for my JB landed (breakeven), and have put my KL flat (breakeven) on the market. I've also repriced my SG loans to fixed rate 1.98% for at least 2 years.
I've sold 100% of my stock holdings and converted them into physical gold and UOB silver passbook
I'm shifting from eating out at restaurants to tahpowing from food courts, and imposed a moratorium on lux purchases. I'm shifting from VPower to 98, and getting mobile polishing than groomwerkz.
The only thing I'm looking to buy is a studio at the Sail but only if the price is right.
dun follow me, i siao one. super kiasu
in other words u are taking profit.. is always good to know when to get out ~ :o
in other words u are taking profit.. is always good to know when to get out ~ :o
i wish ah ---- all my msia property breakeven i happy liao. but no choice, better do it before kena allah ahkbar
in other words u are taking profit.. is always good to know when to get out ~ :o
More like portfolio adjustment than profit taking to me.
but really, you guys might wanna start thinking about repricing your sibor loans to fixed rate loans
new2mondrian
21-01-10, 15:46
but really, you guys might wanna start thinking about repricing your sibor loans to fixed rate loans
or better still, start repaying all the loans will be a great idea. currently offloading all my shares to pare off the loans. :)
by the way, which bank are u taking the fixed rate 1.98% from? and what is the rate after 2 years? currently mine are all sibor+0.7% to sibor+1% for the entire loan tenure without locked in.
ocbc. dunno what's the rate after.
not a good idea to payback - one will need the cash later this year most likely esp if recently bought mass market this year
Property_Owner
21-01-10, 16:15
all tok kok one. got one muthafkr also advertised $950psf for carribean couple of weeks back. waste my time go down sell me developer units for $1350.
TS i'm waiting for a super low flr, fcked up view, garbage facing POS studio.
I also kena once. I wait till we are at the pool then I gave him a good F in front of the crowds.
Btw what is POS studio?
I also kena once. I wait till we are at the pool then I gave him a good F in front of the crowds.
Btw what is POS studio?
'piece of shit' lol
mainly applies to sub 8 floor, carpark facing
Property_Owner
21-01-10, 16:23
'piece of shit' lol
mainly applies to sub 8 floor, carpark facing
Lol, there's one #04-17 waiting for you.
new2mondrian
21-01-10, 16:34
ocbc. dunno what's the rate after.
not a good idea to payback - one will need the cash later this year most likely esp if recently bought mass market this year
thanks. got mine from HSBC and DBS.
agree for investment properties might not be a good idea to payback, esp since interest expense is a tax deductible item. still thinking. but it's a good strategy (in my opinion) now to pocket gains and exit the stock mkt.
what's the allure of the sail? u guys betting on the fact that MBS and MBR (being transacted at $2300psf upwards) will make Sail at $1700psf onwards a great bargain is it? But a carparking-facing unit at Sail will be no different from a unit at Icon right?
Property_Owner
21-01-10, 16:38
thanks. got mine from HSBC and DBS.
hmmm...another multiple properties owner here. :D :D :D
Lol, there's one #04-17 waiting for you.
tiang eh? yours? i want! pm me
... I was quietly enjoying my reading and learning in this thread until "tayv" distupted it with his offensive remark ...
Now, I lost an opportunity to learn! Fedup!
Hmmm ... I notice that "tayv" registered his username 8 months ago in May 2009, and had not made a single post until today.
I imagine for 8 months he had been watching silently ... until finally cannot tahan ... outburst!!! :scared-2:
Seems to me there is a lot of boasting here....No hard feelings if that hurts anybody.
I hope I'm not the one who triggered him. :ashamed1:
But seriously I don't think anyone here is boasting, because boasting will hurt oneself more than anyone else.
Can you imagine there is a GCBSingapore.com forum, and I go there and boast that I have a 20,000 sf bungalow at Cluny Hill (even though in real life I don't).
And then I bluff and post "Ya! Today I just changed the pumping system for my swimming pool it cost me $30,000."
What's the purpose of that?
After I log off my computer, I'll see that my real garden doesn't even have a swimming pool. Isn't that more hurting to the soul?
Or imagine maybe Reporter in real life is just a McDonald's waiter and did not buy a District 9 property in Nov 2009 like he claimed. Actually he just bought a Mezzo D9 bicycle.
http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/comms/site_news/images/newsletter-8-6-07/mezzo-d9-folding-bike-new.jpg
I find it even harder to believe that he will spend everyday here talking about D9 properties, if what he bought was a D9 bicycle.
Or below is gfoo's so-called The Sail.
http://www.extremesportscafe.com/Graphics/cyprus_wind/hugh-windsurfing.jpg
Or Property_Owner's 40+ properties are Lego toys.
http://www.1000steine.com/brickset/images/6365-1.jpg
If that's the case, then condosingapore.com should change its name to woodbridgesingapore.com.
Property_Owner
21-01-10, 16:55
tiang eh? yours? i want! pm me
Good luck pal. So u buying for investment?
Guys,
Can we move the banter to another thread please? It's way off-course now.
Property_Owner
21-01-10, 17:03
what's the allure of the sail? u guys betting on the fact that MBS and MBR (being transacted at $2300psf upwards) will make Sail at $1700psf onwards a great bargain is it? But a carparking-facing unit at Sail will be no different from a unit at Icon right?
If market chong up for Bay facing or MBR, this carpark facing unit also move up. Dun be afraid to buy, tell yourself that when come to selling there will be a ''not so rich buyer'' willing to buy this unit.
Icon? Tenants might move out once Altez start construction. Plus to me same thoughts as gfoo, it's neither here or there.
new2mondrian
21-01-10, 17:15
If market chong up for Bay facing or MBR, this carpark facing unit also move up. Dun be afraid to buy, tell yourself that when come to selling there will be a ''not so rich buyer'' willing to buy this unit.
Icon? Tenants might move out once Altez start construction. Plus to me same thoughts as gfoo, it's neither here or there.
that's true about icon. but to spend more than $1M staring at carpark walls and staying in a studio mousehole is seriously sad for the would-be buyer.... hence better think thrice.... unless the carpark mousehole has side view of the bay (or stretch neck out can see bay)???
Property_Owner
21-01-10, 17:17
that's true about icon. but to spend more than $1M staring at carpark walls and staying in a studio mousehole is seriously sad for the would-be buyer.... hence better think thrice.... unless the carpark mousehole has side view of the bay (or stretch neck out can see bay)???
You must ask gfoo why he want to buy this POS studio.
You must ask gfoo why he want to buy this POS studio.
definitely not for investment or renting out. prob my mom and/or baby brother to stay so the fambly is under 'one roof', but still not too close for comfort. good also for my brother if he finds a job in the city when he graduates in a few years time
toying with this idea coz i'm not like terribly rich - middle class scraping by so must stretch the dollar
Try uob, 1yr fix at 1.48%, thereafter 3 month SOR+1.75%. 1 yr lock-in
or better still, start repaying all the loans will be a great idea. currently offloading all my shares to pare off the loans. :)
by the way, which bank are u taking the fixed rate 1.98% from? and what is the rate after 2 years? currently mine are all sibor+0.7% to sibor+1% for the entire loan tenure without locked in.
Guys,
Can we move the banter to another thread please? It's way off-course now.
There is no banter here.
There are lots of valuable property info hidden within the posts.
e.g. from "Property_Owner" and "gfoo"'s posts I've learned a lot about the Marina Bay area, which I'm not familiar; from focus' landed house hunting I get a feel of the landed market without getting out of my armchair; from new2mondrian I reaffirmed my feel that the landed market had been going up all the time (contrary to Straits Times' 2009 reports).
I also contribute useful info, but they're hidden as clues, such as "getting out of my armchair again very soon". It tells you something is stirring in a very important sector of the property market.
What does that mean? :confused: You have to read between the lines. :p
Haha.. ... Blame it on the Focus :)
Well.. I can only say ..i've been sitting on all the tips and news and advice... coz I was waiting for my balls to grow.. ;) I don't have balls of steel like some of you guys.
But jokes aside, I really appreciate this forum as it gives me a very good education on property investment. I would rate this the number 1 property forum for me! :)
Property_owner, very near but I am driving the new mercs e-class, not a BMW (Don't like the current look). But considering upgrading my other car to a Z4 year end if the stock market holds up. And NO! I wouldn't want to know what cars you have.. Your 40 properties already scared the shit out of me..
There is no banter here.
There are lots of valuable property info hidden within the posts.
e.g. from "Property_Owner" and "gfoo"'s posts I've learned a lot about the Marina Bay area, which I'm not familiar; from focus' landed house hunting I get a feel of the landed market without getting out of my armchair; from new2mondrian I reaffirmed my feel that the landed market had been going up all the time (contrary to Straits Times' 2009 reports).
I also contribute useful info, but they're hidden as clues, such as "getting out of my armchair again very soon". It tells you something is stirring in a very important sector of the property market.
What does that mean? :confused: You have to read between the lines. :p
The conversation has been an interesting read. But for the sake of moderating the forum, a new thread titled "House Hunting for the next Quater" may be more suitable.
The conversation has been an interesting read. But for the sake of moderating the forum, a new thread titled "House Hunting for the next Quater" may be more suitable.
no one stopping u from starting such a thread
Allthepies
22-01-10, 12:22
I've sold 100% of my stock holdings
Wow u r good, market just crashed today! :scared-4:
Hi,
My situation is quite similar in certain ways and I hope to get experts’ advice from this forum.
I am currently staying in Sengkang 5 rm (9 years old), and within 300 metres from the MRT.
In March last year, my wife and I bought our 1st private property, a MM unit (500+ sq ft) along River Valley abt 300 metres from Great World city from developer at around 1200psf.
I intend to rent out the unit when it’s ready around 2011. I have the impression based on past statistics that prices of condos in prime districts rise higher than others in a boom market. Providing that the trend continues, should I capitalize on this, sell and buy a bigger city fringe or OCR unit immediately in case the price goes higher? What is the psf potential of area around Great World City.
As my wife and I earn modest salaries and already past mid 30s, this could be our only shot at improving our financial wellbeing.
Any advice is much appreciated.
how modest are your salaries? it can be rather subjective
if you bought that devt right opp boon tong kee mktd by huttons, then be very careful of being psychoed that the area is as prime as they say it is - it cannot be compared to the river valley stretch across the road
while it prob won't go to below what you paid for it, personally i would take profit and save your bullets for the next cycle.
if you can more than comfortably afford repayments wo batting an eyelid, keep it. you are far better off than thos paying 1600 for balestier
how modest are your salaries? it can be rather subjective
if you bought that devt right opp boon tong kee mktd by huttons, then be very careful of being psychoed that the area is as prime as they say it is - it cannot be compared to the river valley stretch across the road
while it prob won't go to below what you paid for it, personally i would take profit and save your bullets for the next cycle.
if you can more than comfortably afford repayments wo batting an eyelid, keep it. you are far better off than thos paying 1600 for balestier
1,600 for balestier.... property owners at novena side would be laughing all the way to the bank.
Separately, my friend has been collecting rental on his property. In 2 yrs time, rather than pay down his loan, he intends to use his takings to invest in another property....
Wonder if this is wise... what would you/people do?
My opinion is, do not hold MM unit for long term. The MM concept is relatively new here and may lose its appeal after some years.
To be truthful, to invest further from this point, there is high risk involved. But in order not to miss the boat when property price shoot thru the roof.. I think you already know what to do. Sell MM, Get a city fringe comfortable size condo ( preferably below 1k psf which is close to government future development plan) To preserve cash buffer for emergency and investment on next downturn, lock in profit for your hdb keep the cash and Cpf. Just my opinion. :2cents:
Hi,
My situation is quite similar in certain ways and I hope to get experts’ advice from this forum.
I am currently staying in Sengkang 5 rm (9 years old), and within 300 metres from the MRT.
In March last year, my wife and I bought our 1st private property, a MM unit (500+ sq ft) along River Valley abt 300 metres from Great World city from developer at around 1200psf.
I intend to rent out the unit when it’s ready around 2011. I have the impression based on past statistics that prices of condos in prime districts rise higher than others in a boom market. Providing that the trend continues, should I capitalize on this, sell and buy a bigger city fringe or OCR unit immediately in case the price goes higher? What is the psf potential of area around Great World City.
As my wife and I earn modest salaries and already past mid 30s, this could be our only shot at improving our financial wellbeing.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Thanks gfoo and Douk for the great advice.
If the price of my condo shoots up, I am also thinking of selling both my condo and HDB and immediately get a 2000sq ft FH terrace under $1.5mil.
Hopefully my loan will be not more than S$700k. My backup plan is for my family to move back to stay with my in-laws as they have extra rooms for us. :p And we can rent out the terrace to collect rent.
Are there any disadvantages in owning a FH cluster terrace?
Hi, I hv been looking for FH cluster terrace oso (big space, lower psf), but not many below $1.5M or below 3000 sq ft. You can find some in D19 but location wise is bad and at the current psf, I personally feel is not worth taking the risk. Unless u buy to stay for good till you RIP or pass on to your next generation, otherwise you will hv difficulty selling it for a profit later after a couple years of stay. You can consider lucky if you can sell at breakeven price i.e. original purchase price + loan interest you have serviced over the years.
proud owner
24-01-10, 01:15
Thanks gfoo and Douk for the great advice.
If the price of my condo shoots up, I am also thinking of selling both my condo and HDB and immediately get a 2000sq ft FH terrace under $1.5mil.
Hopefully my loan will be not more than S$700k. My backup plan is for my family to move back to stay with my in-laws as they have extra rooms for us. :p And we can rent out the terrace to collect rent.
Are there any disadvantages in owning a FH cluster terrace?
never felt good about clustered terraces .. too close to front and back row.. even closer than inter terrace .. imagine no main door ..usually go in frombasement car park .. and always 4-5 storey to make up 3600 sqft ..thats 700-800 sqft per floor ..TINY and cramp ..
by the time you climb from basement to top floor ..legs CRAMP
its meant for people who wants landed BUT are not allowed to buy landed (like foreigners, subject to approval) ..
anyway if you really like .. 1.5m can get lah ...
Hi, I am first timer to have my own condo and it will be ready next year first Quarter, now my dilemma is should i sell away my HDB and move in to the condo. The condo i already pay up the 30% and the rest i paying by installment.
My wife and I have a stable job which allow me to use CPF to pay up the HDB (left 4yrs to pay which i took 10yrs HDB loan).And i do take the experts advice to keep 1yrs household saving in case for emergency. The condo I can pay by cash even hit up to 4% interest rate in future after i calculate also wont hit 35% of my household income. So now i not sure should i rent out my HDB or sell my HDB because all my friends tell me different view so i hope to come this forum and seek for some professional advices. Thanks a million!!!
Hi, I've been through your dilemma and was a former Punggol resident too => meaning I sold my HDB flat already, and it was just last year end. Mine was the same situation as yours: Bought a pte property while my HDB flat was away from the MRT but right next to LRT. Have decided to sell it instead of keeping it for rental yields in the end even though I can comfortably afford to hold both units.
Have read the advices from various experts here but there is no solid conclusion => To each its own.
Perhaps the following qns may help you to decide better:
1) Do you think rental at $2K for HDB will hold or rise forever? Just a couple of years ago, my frd could only rent out his entire 5 rm HDB at Bedok Reservoir Rd for barely $1.1K when he moved to work overseas. Obviously, rental rate depends on the economic state as well as demand vs supply. With the new supply of HDB flats + private property in the upcoming 2 to 3 yrs, where do you think rental will head? My prediction is south.
2) Are both your wife and your jobs stable? I don't think anyone can guarantee that, not unless you are highly specialised or working in a niche sector. With the influx of foreign talents at similar or lower cost than yours, would employer seek to cut cost or pay the same salary but get better talent? You will be surprised that many ang mohs in Singapore nowadays are getting same or even lower salary than the locals, and many dun even have expat terms, i.e company sponsored housing.
3) I also agree with some folks here saying that HDB price has a capping or probably at its peak now. So in a couple of years when you want to stop renting out your flat and getting ready to sell...Do you think it can fetch back the same valuation as at now given the new supply of flats near to the MRT while yours is relatively far away and 10 yrs old? Also, you may want to compare Punggol and Pasir Ris prices. I think Pasir Ris prices have more room for growth given the revamp of Downtown East.
4) I think everyone here expects that interest rate will rise. And this greatly affects the property market. So if it comes sooner than expected, you need to service both HDB and your condo loan while having difficulty finding tenants to rent your HDB or your condo...how long can your finances last? And worst still, what if you become jobless all of a sudden?
Therefore, I always believe in being prudent and cash is the king of buffer for stormy days. So i've decided to sell my Punggol flat, keep the cash and CPF, and wait for the next downturn to enter and buy a bigger pte property or do a lumpsum repayment of the pte property if I'm sure I'll be staying there for good.
At the end of the day, to each its own.
My opinion is, do not hold MM unit for long term. The MM concept is relatively new here and may lose its appeal after some years.
To be truthful, to invest further from this point, there is high risk involved. But in order not to miss the boat when property price shoot thru the roof.. I think you already know what to do. Sell MM, Get a city fringe comfortable size condo ( preferably below 1k psf which is close to government future development plan) To preserve cash buffer for emergency and investment on next downturn, lock in profit for your hdb keep the cash and Cpf. Just my opinion. :2cents:
The miniaturisation has already begun and is unlikely to stop. There are many push factors for this. One is the increasing gap between property prices and man-on-the-street salaries. Without miniaturisation, affordability is an issue. When this process is not only happening to private properties but public housing as well (remember the 1000+sf 4-room HDB flats of yesteryear), you will see that the government is riding on the trend which the private property market is spearheading. In essence, the private property market is helping to "educate" the public that it is all right (or even "hip") to stay in MM units.
We have seen this happening in other highly urbanised countries (cities) such as Hong Kong and Japan. The masses have been well-trained to accept the minimal amount of living space made available to them. Do they protest when the only housing affordable to them is a 100+sf apartment? It has become a norm over time and the masses generally do not protest against norms. The government has the delicate job of moderating the rate at which a trend become a norm. Too fast and people will revolt, too slow and the benefits cannot be derived quickly to accommodate socio-economic changes and pressures created by global deltas.
Another reason for MM units is because of downsizing of family size & demand for privacy. Demand for 1+1, 2br condo units are from an increasing number of people who are:
1. Young couples with no kids or 1 kid
2. Singles
Above groups are typically higher educated so they assign more value to privacy & facilities, almost all 3/4-room HDB flats built in 1977-1997 in mature estates were corridor units without privacy ... when buying MM condo unit you get smaller home but with privacy & facilities ... and with clever renovation ... it is really not that bad compared to Hong Kong or Tokyo.
Another reason for MM units is because of downsizing of family size & demand for privacy. Demand for 1+1, 2br condo units are from an increasing number of people who are:
1. Young couples with no kids or 1 kid
2. Singles
Above groups are typically higher educated so they assign more value to privacy & facilities, almost all 3/4-room HDB flats built in 1977-1997 in mature estates were corridor units without privacy ... when buying MM condo unit you get smaller home but with privacy & facilities ... and with clever renovation ... it is really not that bad compared to Hong Kong or Tokyo.
Indeed. Not giving birth? No worries, we'll just import new Singaporeans. Notice that the drive for Singaporeans to procreate has somehow lost much visibility in the media? Nothing beats the instant Singaporeans formulae mix.
proud owner
24-01-10, 11:37
Another reason for MM units is because of downsizing of family size & demand for privacy. Demand for 1+1, 2br condo units are from an increasing number of people who are:
1. Young couples with no kids or 1 kid
2. Singles
Above groups are typically higher educated so they assign more value to privacy & facilities, almost all 3/4-room HDB flats built in 1977-1997 in mature estates were corridor units without privacy ... when buying MM condo unit you get smaller home but with privacy & facilities ... and with clever renovation ... it is really not that bad compared to Hong Kong or Tokyo.
the day will come ..when these highly educated will have children and need bigger space ..
so the more people buy MM units... the more I should buy bigger units.. as these will become a rarity ..
the day will come ..when these highly educated will have children and need bigger space ..
so the more people buy MM units... the more I should buy bigger units.. as these will become a rarity ..
Societal values are changing radically in the last couple of decades. The prevalence of homo***uality and the increasing self-centredness of people have led to more and more highly-educated couples who put off or even avoid procreation. The emphasis today is on enjoyment and the sensual pleasures. It is not longer on moral values, filial piety and community contributions.
This is one of the key reasons developers have had the opportunity to even conjure the MM unit model. They realise it is all about self today. Most youngsters do not like living in a multi-generational environment because of the drive towards independence and freedom. The value system from the west has permeated the social fabric in many young societies (ours included) through education (overseas studies) and the media (movies, advertisements, etc).
The mainstay of traditional eastern (usually confucian) value systems is slowly being broken down as schools start to focus on academia and throw out ethics and morality lessons to free up more time for math and science. Parents tell their children to be number one in everything they do, even at the expense of others. I have seen a mother lambast her primary school daughter for being stupid in giving way to other passengers while boarding the bus.
Hmmm ... I notice that "tayv" registered his username 8 months ago in May 2009, and had not made a single post until today.
I imagine for 8 months he had been watching silently ... until finally cannot tahan ... outburst!!! :scared-2:
I hope I'm not the one who triggered him. :ashamed1:
But seriously I don't think anyone here is boasting, because boasting will hurt oneself more than anyone else.
Can you imagine there is a GCBSingapore.com forum, and I go there and boast that I have a 20,000 sf bungalow at Cluny Hill (even though in real life I don't).
And then I bluff and post "Ya! Today I just changed the pumping system for my swimming pool it cost me $30,000."
What's the purpose of that?
After I log off my computer, I'll see that my real garden doesn't even have a swimming pool. Isn't that more hurting to the soul?
Or imagine maybe Reporter in real life is just a McDonald's waiter and did not buy a District 9 property in Nov 2009 like he claimed. Actually he just bought a Mezzo D9 bicycle.
I find it even harder to believe that he will spend everyday here talking about D9 properties, if what he bought was a D9 bicycle.
Or below is gfoo's so-called The Sail.
Or Property_Owner's 40+ properties are Lego toys.
If that's the case, then condosingapore.com should change its name to woodbridgesingapore.com.
Sorry guys for disturbing your thread again. I somehow like the comments by Bro jlrx. Yup, he's right. I am just a passive forumer who has just made my first post after so many months
I still think that chances that someone with 6-million cash on hand chit-chatting on the forum and not conserving energy thinking how to make the next 6 million is very low. Maybe some of the people have this "feel-good" feeling after boasting on the forum which they may not have or have in a much much smaller scale in the actual life.
However, I do appreciate the constructive and useful comments made by some of the bros here.
Thanks everybody. let's move on to make this forum a "no bullshitting' discussion.
Cheers.
Hehe.. FH landed is for own stay.. and that one will take forever with my parents being those super particular type... my budget only max $3mil for own stay ..and those $3mil location and land is not particular attractive.. seems like $4-5mil is the sweet spot for nice location and nice house...
Marina Bay/Sentosa is for investment.. different... :). .so can buy anything in $2mil to $3mil range also..
and also.. my wishy washy is cause this is my first time buying residential properties...(staying in HDB with fantastic view to my parents and amenities at my doorstep) and it is a big leap from buying shares..
tayv you're referring to this? maybe he just touch TOTO - you'll nebber know ...
Sorry guys for disturbing your thread again. I somehow like the comments by Bro jlrx. Yup, he's right. I am just a passive forumer who has just made my first post after so many months
I still think that chances that someone with 6-million cash on hand chit-chatting on the forum and not conserving energy thinking how to make the next 6 million is very low. Maybe some of the people have this "feel-good" feeling after boasting on the forum which they may not have or have in a much much smaller scale in the actual life.
However, I do appreciate the constructive and useful comments made by some of the bros here.
Thanks everybody. let's move on to make this forum a "no bullshitting' discussion.
Cheers.
You are right.. :) .. I have more than $6mil in paper money (Monopoly one)
and property_owner has 40+ lego bricks apartments (as suggested by jlrx)..
Disbelieve is good.. Skepticism is good :) Forming our own opinion and making a judgement call is good for our investment journey too :)
I still think that chances that someone with 6-million cash on hand chit-chatting on the forum and not conserving energy thinking how to make the next 6 million is very low.
You need to dig more posts to know a bit more about focus' profile.
focus is a retiree who used to pay tax at the top income tax bracket. There are 30,000 people in Singapore in this tax bracket, and it's not surprising that a person with several decades of work at the top income tax bracket has $6 million. In fact he should have more (the $6 million is for property investments only).
Uh ok what.. you earn more.. you get taxed at highest bracket is alright mah.. I used to pay taxes at the highest bracket but have since stopped paying because my income is now derived solely from dividends/interests which are taxed at source.. (which taxed indirectly but doesn't bother me.. it's a happy problem to be taxed at the highest bracket! :))
The only thing I find puzzling is why he stays in HDB, and now then he starts hunting for private properties.
Maybe he doesn't believe in Propertism. Maybe he believes in Equitism and Bondism? :confused:
Actually "chit-chatting" here is very addictive, although I must admit it really "wastes" my time. I could have done a lot more productive work or "conserve energy to make the next 6 million" :cheers1:. But somehow it's very addictive. :p
This is the only forum where I find the people here really "chit-chattable". Unlike the other forums which I occasionally peek at, such as salary.sg, where the people there ask about whether a networth of $30,000 is considered high :scared-5: ... and the Straits Times complainers' forum where the slogan is "Down with the Government!!!" :axekiller:
You are right.. :) .. I have more than $6mil in paper money (Monopoly one)
and property_owner has 40+ lego bricks apartments (as suggested by jlrx)..
Disbelieve is good.. Skepticism is good :) Forming our own opinion and making a judgement call is good for our investment journey too :)
I got a feeling we are from the same school.
Are you from Vwxyz123 School or Vwxyz123 Junior College?
If you happen to join the alumni association, maybe I can meet you?
(just kiddin' lah :D)
I got a feeling we are from the same school.
Are you from Vwxyz123 School or Vwxyz123 Junior College?
If you happen to join the alumni association, maybe I can meet you?
(just kiddin' lah :D)
Victoria School Class of 1990 (graduating). You?
Alumni? Is there one?..haha.. anyway, I dont think anyone remembers me.. and I don't really remember anyone too.
went into salary.sg forums as jlrx mentioned - sheesh seems like most singaporeans in their mid 30s have at least 500k cash and 1m in equity on property/stocks.
well done fellow singaporeans!
Victoria School Class of 1990 (graduating). You?
Alumni? Is there one?..haha.. anyway, I dont think anyone remembers me.. and I don't really remember anyone too.
... 1984 ... 6 years your senior
... 1986 ...
... OVA ...
You at 36 years old is a retiree with $6M?
Cool!
You may be right on the MM unit. But to me, the major element that drives up the demand on MM units is its entry level into property investment - the low quantum. Whether it has a sustainable demand after the "investment" hype is over, is still unknown.
the marketable segment for MM unit is mainly young couples (and it is already too small for 2 adults), single adult, and rental for young professionals.
Whether this segment of ppl can provide enough support for the MM unit is really unknown. And I think is not a good idea to add this "gamble" element to long term investment.
Societal values are changing radically in the last couple of decades. The prevalence of homo***uality and the increasing self-centredness of people have led to more and more highly-educated couples who put off or even avoid procreation. The emphasis today is on enjoyment and the sensual pleasures. It is not longer on moral values, filial piety and community contributions.
This is one of the key reasons developers have had the opportunity to even conjure the MM unit model. They realise it is all about self today. Most youngsters do not like living in a multi-generational environment because of the drive towards independence and freedom. The value system from the west has permeated the social fabric in many young societies (ours included) through education (overseas studies) and the media (movies, advertisements, etc).
The mainstay of traditional eastern (usually confucian) value systems is slowly being broken down as schools start to focus on academia and throw out ethics and morality lessons to free up more time for math and science. Parents tell their children to be number one in everything they do, even at the expense of others. I have seen a mother lambast her primary school daughter for being stupid in giving way to other passengers while boarding the bus.
how modest are your salaries? it can be rather subjective
if you bought that devt right opp boon tong kee mktd by huttons, then be very careful of being psychoed that the area is as prime as they say it is - it cannot be compared to the river valley stretch across the road
while it prob won't go to below what you paid for it, personally i would take profit and save your bullets for the next cycle.
if you can more than comfortably afford repayments wo batting an eyelid, keep it. you are far better off than thos paying 1600 for balestier
Hi gfoo,
Agree that this area is not as prime as other parts of River Valley. I like to ask on behalf of someone I know. Do you think that it was a good buy for early investors of RV Suites when he paid 1350psf at launch around Nov/Dec 2008 ?
Would more projects like Latitude on the same side of the road, and the yet-to-be launch RV Residence (opposite) increase the psf of RV Suites?
Hope to also hear from other experts in River Valley. Thanks.
went into salary.sg forums as jlrx mentioned - sheesh seems like most singaporeans in their mid 30s have at least 500k cash and 1m in equity on property/stocks.
well done fellow singaporeans!
Not sure how much you can trust this for accurate data.
Are results from a scientific poll, or just people boasting on an online forum?
I'm sure that is because only those that have made it will post, or pretend they have. Those that haven't probably keep quiet.
The mainstay of traditional eastern (usually confucian) value systems is slowly being broken down as schools start to focus on academia and throw out ethics and morality lessons to free up more time for math and science. Parents tell their children to be number one in everything they do, even at the expense of others. I have seen a mother lambast her primary school daughter for being stupid in giving way to other passengers while boarding the bus.
This is simply sad and heading towards the cantonese expression "oneself only look after ownself"
As for MM units, I have noticed that expats usully prefer large units. This is true for even single expats. This is because they have lots of furniture and one room must be a study or guest room. I had a 1400sqft unit and they compliant lounge too small for their furniture.
Take a 1msgd unit for 700sqft apartment (1 MBR and 1 Study). Just nice for one person + girlfriend or spouse (local occupants). If you rent it out, perhaps you can get $3k. When the family comes along, 1 additional maid and child will make the unit too small.
Is this arrangement better than staying with parents or in-laws? What is the eventual demand for these MM units?
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