PDA

View Full Version : The Shore Residences (D15, 103 years leasehold, Far East Organization)



Pages : [1] 2

Sea
22-11-09, 19:56
Mins to Parkway Parade....

Located Behind Seaview~~

Near to East Coast beach~~

Short Drive to City

Near to Good schools~~

Indicaition Price

6XX k /1125 psf for 1 bedroom (590sf)

1220 psf for 2 (900 sf)bedroom

Take note that those gave cheques are given

the pripority for viewing when is ready(eg siteplan,fl plans)

Sms at 90686016 to for reservation now!

Property_Owner
22-11-09, 20:30
now it's not the time to buy D15.

G17
22-11-09, 20:49
is the showflat up already??

nochoice
22-11-09, 21:01
The price is not expensive for studio if is $1125psf. Is it freehold or 99LH?

Allthepies
22-11-09, 22:14
why is 2 bedroom psf higher than studio?

G17
22-11-09, 22:24
The former Rose Garden was a FH plot. But $1125-1200psf is an unusually low price coming from FEO. That is, if you consider Seaview is selling for $1200 to$1400psf, One Amber (FH, not 999) is selling for $1100-1250psf in the subsale market. I would expect FEO to position The Shore at the same level as Seaview in terms of pricing.

So, my suspicion is 99 leasehold.

nochoice
22-11-09, 23:05
The former Rose Garden was a FH plot. But $1125-1200psf is an unusually low price coming from FEO. That is, if you consider Seaview is selling for $1200 to$1400psf, One Amber (FH, not 999) is selling for $1100-1250psf in the subsale market. I would expect FEO to position The Shore at the same level as Seaview in terms of pricing.

So, my suspicion is 99 leasehold.

that means it is a freehold land but they sell it at 99 LH. But I don't understand why FEO would want to do that?

East Coast Boy
23-11-09, 07:02
that means it is a freehold land but they sell it at 99 LH. But I don't understand why FEO would want to do that?
FE want to control D15 LH pricing. By selling $1,2xxpsf, many of us will feel that SliverSea are selling at good pricing !!! Todate SliverSea only sold less than 100 units. $1,3xxpsf next to parkway and The Shore Asking for $1,2xxpsf . Win win for FE la.
FH land they sell 99 LH project, No en-block in future. FE will take it back again.
Better buy SeaView man.

xebay11
23-11-09, 07:06
FE want to control D15 LH pricing. By selling $1,2xxpsf, many of us will feel that SliverSea are selling at good pricing !!! Todate SliverSea only sold less than 100 units. $1,3xxpsf next to parkway and The Shore Asking for $1,2xxpsf . Win win for FE la.
FH land they sell 99 LH project, No en-block in future. FE will take it back again.
Better buy SeaView man.

Confirm that it is selling as 99LH status?

proud owner
23-11-09, 07:12
FE want to control D15 LH pricing. By selling $1,2xxpsf, many of us will feel that SliverSea are selling at good pricing !!! Todate SliverSea only sold less than 100 units. $1,3xxpsf next to parkway and The Shore Asking for $1,2xxpsf . Win win for FE la.
FH land they sell 99 LH project, No en-block in future. FE will take it back again.
Better buy SeaView man.


can like that meh ?

launch a LH project on a FH land ?

xebay11
23-11-09, 07:20
can like that meh ?

launch a LH project on a FH land ?

I don't see why not if you own the land.

proud owner
23-11-09, 07:24
I don't see why not if you own the land.


if URA allows this ... then people better buy FH ...

FEO damn smart ... if this is true and goes thru ...other developers will do the same ...

ultimately the big developers will own the island ...

so we die die buy FH .. and landed house

xebay11
23-11-09, 07:38
if URA allows this ... then people better buy FH ...

FEO damn smart ... if this is true and goes thru ...other developers will do the same ...

ultimately the big developers will own the island ...

so we die die buy FH .. and landed house

That is why I say many times, property, whether landed or strata titled, FH is the only way to go. Next time even strata unit owners must be smart and enbloc their land to developers as 99yr LH and not FH.

Douk
23-11-09, 09:24
can like that meh ?

launch a LH project on a FH land ?

Dunman View is a good example from FEO.

noblebaby
23-11-09, 10:11
$1125psf for 1 bedder - $666k for 590sqft

$1220psf for 2 bedder - $1.15Mil for 900sqft

:scared-4:

gfoo
23-11-09, 10:16
shesellsseashellsontheseashore

say fast fast 100 times perfectly then feo will give $100psf discount

sealover
23-11-09, 10:34
can like that meh ?

launch a LH project on a FH land ?

Livia by City Dev is one example. You have to en-bloc back to them, so no bargaining power...

Property_Owner
23-11-09, 13:53
can like that meh ?

launch a LH project on a FH land ?

Example:
HDB owns all the public housing as freehold but sells as leasehold.

nochoice
23-11-09, 14:22
FE want to control D15 LH pricing. By selling $1,2xxpsf, many of us will feel that SliverSea are selling at good pricing !!! Todate SliverSea only sold less than 100 units. $1,3xxpsf next to parkway and The Shore Asking for $1,2xxpsf . Win win for FE la.
FH land they sell 99 LH project, No en-block in future. FE will take it back again.
Better buy SeaView man.

I don't see the point, even if is LH, a developer has to wait for 30-40 yrs, before enbloc, if then the seller don't agree with the price, then what? the developer has to wait until 90 yrs before FE will take it back?

xebay11
23-11-09, 14:56
I don't see the point, even if is LH, a developer has to wait for 30-40 yrs, before enbloc, if then the seller don't agree with the price, then what? the developer has to wait until 90 yrs before FE will take it back?

Thank about it, wait 90 years also still better than not at all.

gfoo
23-11-09, 15:07
I don't see the point, even if is LH, a developer has to wait for 30-40 yrs, before enbloc, if then the seller don't agree with the price, then what? the developer has to wait until 90 yrs before FE will take it back?

99lh, enbloc years down the road, pay govt to top up for new devt- usually govt will okay applications in line w urban renewal plans.

in this case, what if feo refuses to extend lease which is in their right? are future owners stuck?

xebay11
23-11-09, 15:17
99lh, enbloc years down the road, pay govt to top up for new devt- usually govt will okay applications in line w urban renewal plans.

in this case, what if feo refuses to extend lease which is in their right? are future owners stuck?

Ah bu den.

Laguna
23-11-09, 15:27
Later when the project turns 20 years, the value will drop drastically, as only FEO can dictates the prices of the premium to top up the lease or who to enbloc to

FEO is the only winner here

Buy Seaview

Property_Owner
23-11-09, 15:36
Yup, buy Seaview is better then the other 2 by FEO, never support Mr Ng

xebay11
23-11-09, 15:38
Yup, buy Seaview is better then the other 2 by FEO, never support Mr Ng

Problem with Seaview is that it is blocked front and back by FEO projects :doh:

Property_Owner
23-11-09, 15:41
Problem with Seaview is that it is blocked front and back by FEO projects :doh:

For enbloc which one will go first?

nochoice
23-11-09, 15:56
Thank about it, wait 90 years also still better than not at all.

then, if thats the case, I don't think is fair to the buyer.... wonder will the buyer know that its a FH land selling as 99LH. Anyway we talk so much also don't know confirm or not, can any agent confirm that it is selling as 99LH? Who knows, maybe at this price, FEO is selling as FH?:D

jlrx
23-11-09, 16:44
I don't see the point, even if is LH, a developer has to wait for 30-40 yrs, before enbloc, if then the seller don't agree with the price, then what? the developer has to wait until 90 yrs before FE will take it back?
Thank about it, wait 90 years also still better than not at all.

I think everyone, including developers, is beginning to see that land in Singapore is too precious to sell away.

Hong Leong made the mistake of selling away their land together with Hong Leong Garden in 1982, and end up having to buy back from the en blockers to develop Hundred Trees. In the process, Hong Leong helped to create many en bloc millionaires who were not even related to them by blood.

I foresee that in future, no more condos will be sold freehold together with the land (especially family-owned developers who have to look after the long-term interests of their descendants).

nochoice
23-11-09, 18:31
Anyone know how big this plot of land is? If it is $6xxk for studio, think is quite a good buy. But I still prefer FEO to sell it as FH, even if is $100-$200 more psf.

G17
23-11-09, 20:29
I suppose launching 99 leasehold allows them to lower the quantum a bit, since this is the trend of the moment. At the same time, it does not make it harder for FEO to sell Silversea. And of course, there is residual value to the lease, and this value will increase as the years go by.

And in 30 years, they will make the owners an offer they can't refuse.

Property_Owner
23-11-09, 20:37
then, if thats the case, I don't think is fair to the buyer.... wonder will the buyer know that its a FH land selling as 99LH. Anyway we talk so much also don't know confirm or not, can any agent confirm that it is selling as 99LH? Who knows, maybe at this price, FEO is selling as FH?:D


What is fair?
Developers had been selling bay window and planters to ''US''. Who set the rules?

SV88
23-11-09, 20:49
then, if thats the case, I don't think is fair to the buyer.... wonder will the buyer know that its a FH land selling as 99LH. Anyway we talk so much also don't know confirm or not, can any agent confirm that it is selling as 99LH? Who knows, maybe at this price, FEO is selling as FH?:D

Confirm Leasehold. me surprised too. thought was rumour but this is now confirmed! Good for SeaView, Esta and OA..

nochoice
23-11-09, 21:11
Confirm Leasehold. me surprised too. thought was rumour but this is now confirmed! Good for SeaView, Esta and OA..

then guys, for studio unit which will you buy? 1. Seaview F.H 560sf@$750k-$820k. 2. One Amber F.H 570sf@$690k - $740k 3. the Shore 592sf 99 LH@$670k-$7xxk?

xebay11
23-11-09, 22:08
And in 30 years, they will make the owners an offer they can't refuse.

Are you kidding?

bargain hunter
23-11-09, 22:10
I think we should boycott FEO. This is so despicable although they are not the first. The church which owns the freehold land at 8@Mount Sophia also 'leased' it to Frasers Centrepoint for a 103 year lease. However, this is different. This is the developer itself! Frasers Centrepoint had no choice but to sell it as a leasehold. FEO?...pui...shame on them. Buyers should really know what they are buying into. 30 years down the road, Far East will have the bargaining power to buy the en-bloc cheap as the lease ticks down. Other developers will probably not want to en-bloc as they may not be allowed to top up the lease back to 99. For those who think this is not fair, you have a choice, simply don't buy this and buy elsewhere.


Confirm Leasehold. me surprised too. thought was rumour but this is now confirmed! Good for SeaView, Esta and OA..

sealover
23-11-09, 22:19
I don't see the point, even if is LH, a developer has to wait for 30-40 yrs, before enbloc, if then the seller don't agree with the price, then what? the developer has to wait until 90 yrs before FE will take it back?

Learnt from one such Ah Kong, Two important points:

1) Ah Kong can pledge the land ( freehold after 99 yrs ) to secure funding as banks will consider such "freehold land" as VERY secured collateral
2) Ah Kong has a super big freehold plot of land but not interested to develop at one go. So cut off a section to develop first and will think of what to do next later. But this Ah Kong wants to keep the land for his next next next generations so only sell it as lease hold so that his grand grand grand children can take back the land to combine with the original big plot.

G17
23-11-09, 22:27
Are you kidding?

I was half joking. But let's say, in 20 years, when the Shore's value is lagging behind other FH properties like Seaview & OA, what can the owners do? They can't sell to another developer without getting FEO involved. FEO can make the en bloc offer themselves, but at their terms and price.

SV88
23-11-09, 22:44
then guys, for studio unit which will you buy? 1. Seaview F.H 560sf@$750k-$820k. 2. One Amber F.H 570sf@$690k - $740k 3. the Shore 592sf 99 LH@$670k-$7xxk?

My humble advice is to "do your homework". You should check out the floorplan for SV and OA. Do viewing and just buy what you like and believe in. Property purchase can be very personal. Not everyone think alike. SV also has a side-gate to Parkway which makes it really convenient.

jlrx
23-11-09, 22:55
I think we should boycott FEO. This is so despicable although they are not the first. The church which owns the freehold land at 8@Mount Sophia also 'leased' it to Frasers Centrepoint for a 103 year lease.


Learnt from one such Ah Kong, Two important points:

1) Ah Kong can pledge the land ( freehold after 99 yrs ) to secure funding as banks will consider such "freehold land" as VERY secured collateral
2) Ah Kong has a super big freehold plot of land but not interested to develop at one go. So cut off a section to develop first and will think of what to do next later. But this Ah Kong wants to keep the land for his next next next generations so only sell it as lease hold so that his grand grand grand children can take back the land to combine with the original big plot.

These two stories tell us the greatness of everlasting love ...

Only people with a super-long term horizon of view will be willing to forgo short term profits, for the long term benefits of their children, and children of children ...

By selling freehold land as leasehold, it will keep the wealth within the family, and prevent greedy small-time rats (like me) from nibbling profits out of their family's estate.

http://www.givesomecharacter.com/phdi/p1.nsf/imgpages/givesome_mickeylunch.jpg/$file/mickeylunch.jpg

Property_Owner
24-11-09, 08:42
then guys, for studio unit which will you buy? 1. Seaview F.H 560sf@$750k-$820k. 2. One Amber F.H 570sf@$690k - $740k 3. the Shore 592sf 99 LH@$670k-$7xxk?

I know for sure the shore is out of the list. shesellseashellbytheseashore

G17
24-11-09, 10:05
So, is the showflat completed? If it is ready, I can pop over and have some laksa at the same time.

echotrain
24-11-09, 13:06
I was half joking. But let's say, in 20 years, when the Shore's value is lagging behind other FH properties like Seaview & OA, what can the owners do? They can't sell to another developer without getting FEO involved. FEO can make the en bloc offer themselves, but at their terms and price.

I think this is the deal. Cos you have to get FEO involved even if you want to sell it to another developer?

nochoice
24-11-09, 13:09
I think this is the deal. Cos you have to get FEO involved even if you want to sell it to another developer?

I think if I'm a developer, I also don't want to buy this development, too troublesome.

SV88
25-11-09, 21:21
You can google the site plan for The Shore. It is out now. Good for Seaview, and is a relief to units facing Mountbatten Road.....cool....:) :D

jlrx
25-11-09, 22:31
if URA allows this ... then people better buy FH ...

FEO damn smart ... if this is true and goes thru ...other developers will do the same ...

ultimately the big developers will own the island ...

so we die die buy FH .. and landed house


Confirm Leasehold. me surprised too. thought was rumour but this is now confirmed! Good for SeaView, Esta and OA..

This is really very very interesting !!!

Can someone advise whether we can do that with landed property as well?

For example, can I sell my freehold landed house as 99-year leasehold?

proud owner
25-11-09, 22:45
This is really very very interesting !!!

Can someone advise whether we can do that with landed property as well?

For example, can I sell my freehold landed house as 99-year leasehold?

well developers start the trend i am sure in time to come .. landed owners can do the same

so die die buy FH landed ..
as for FH condos .. developers would already have their FH land which they sold as LH ...no need to renew land bank...
and if FH condos owners want to sell to develpoer as LH .. developers can choose not to buy .. and owners can be stuck with a 30 yr old FH condos which they dont have the capital to rebuild ..so they may end up still selling as FH to developers ..

so landed still better

echotrain
25-11-09, 22:47
This is really very very interesting !!!

Can someone advise whether we can do that with landed property as well?

For example, can I sell my freehold landed house as 99-year leasehold?

I am not sure. But how about selling your landed as 30 year lease. Who stays for 99 yrs anyway? Then lower the price. This is equivalent to mickey mouse units for landed! This is mickey lease property!

jlrx
25-11-09, 23:25
well developers start the trend i am sure in time to come .. landed owners can do the same


I am not sure. But how about selling your landed as 30 year lease. Who stays for 99 yrs anyway? Then lower the price. This is equivalent to mickey mouse units for landed! This is mickey lease property!

Good idea!!! I like Mickey Mouse more and more !!!

Now got Mickey Lease !!!

Hmmm ... but isn't that the same as renting out your property? e.g. 2-year lease and ask the tenant to pay upfront the two years' rental at one shot?

So isn't this the same as signing a 99-year rental agreement with FEO as your landlord, but paying all your rental upfront? :scared-4:

Wow ... like that where got fun? Next time cannot do en bloc leh ...:tongue3:

Die liao!!! :scared-4: I better go and check ... one of my "en bloc potential" properties is 99-year !!! :scared-4:

Better check whether it is State land ... if belongs to FEO then die liao !!! :scared-3:

xebay11
26-11-09, 05:27
well developers start the trend i am sure in time to come .. landed owners can do the same

so die die buy FH landed ..
as for FH condos .. developers would already have their FH land which they sold as LH ...no need to renew land bank...
and if FH condos owners want to sell to develpoer as LH .. developers can choose not to buy .. and owners can be stuck with a 30 yr old FH condos which they dont have the capital to rebuild ..so they may end up still selling as FH to developers ..

so landed still better

But is the FH condo is very well located why the developer don't buy? afterall they still buy LH land from Govt right?

proud owner
26-11-09, 09:36
But is the FH condo is very well located why the developer don't buy? afterall they still buy LH land from Govt right?


no i mean developers will still buy LH land from govt

but if the FH land is owned by another developer XXX, then other developer would not want to enbloc them .. unless XXX put it out for sale

patricia
26-11-09, 12:30
can like that meh ?

launch a LH project on a FH land ?
Like taht also can???? Seem like the developers are running our nation. So who is jing-who and who is pseudo jing-who now?

nochoice
26-11-09, 12:41
You can google the site plan for The Shore. It is out now. Good for Seaview, and is a relief to units facing Mountbatten Road.....cool....:) :D

why is it "a relief to units facing Mountbatten road" for Seaview?

Laguna
26-11-09, 13:04
Now, there are two classes of 99LH. One is the state land type or not belong to any developers. The other is the Developer holds the perpetual /999 land title.

One must avoid the later.

xebay11
26-11-09, 14:24
Now, there are two classes of 99LH. One is the state land type or not belong to any developers. The other is the Developer holds the perpetual /999 land title.

One must avoid the later.

Possible to check before 1% OTP?

nochoice
26-11-09, 14:53
Now, there are two classes of 99LH. One is the state land type or not belong to any developers. The other is the Developer holds the perpetual /999 land title.

One must avoid the later.

Thats why I still prefer FEO to sell this development as freehold. Actually this development is quite nice and the location is good, if only.....

peterng8
02-12-09, 19:34
Just receive from Far east, THE SHORE at amber road..is it good?

bargain hunter
02-12-09, 20:00
Please refer to "The Shore@District 15/Start Reservation w/cheques now! (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=8635&highlight=shore)" thread. In particular, a few of us have concluded that far east may be selling The Shore as a 99 year leasehold on a Freehold plot of land. Be aware and decide whether that is fair or not before you buy.


Just receive from Far east, THE SHORE at amber road..is it good?

mcmlxxvi
03-12-09, 08:24
Thank about it, wait 90 years also still better than not at all.

Ya... good to leave land to sons of sons of sons of MM.... don't break the blood line benefits.

Property_Owner
03-12-09, 09:45
You can google the site plan for The Shore. It is out now. Good for Seaview, and is a relief to units facing Mountbatten Road.....cool....:) :D

One agent email me this, not knowing I'm owning a unit in OA

Dear xxx

Good buy for One Amber. Please call me for more information

Price: 1 br start from $1270 Ave, 2 br starts from $1250psf Ave, 3 br from $1150psf Ave
Land Size: 250,000 Sq Ft
Tenure: FREE HOLD
Expected TOP: 2nd Qtr 2010
Plot Ratio: 2.8
No. of Towers: 4
No. of Storey: 23
No. of units: 562

The Shore

Price: 1 br start from $1250psf Ave, 2 br starts from $1230psf Ave
Land Size: 191,037 Sq Ft
Tenure: 103 Years Leasehold
Expected TOP: 31 Dec 2015
Plot Ratio: 2.1
No. of Towers: 6 (A1, A2, B, C, D1, D2)
No. of Storey: 20 (Tower A1 & A1 start from level 7)
No. of units: 408

Property_Owner
03-12-09, 09:46
One agent email me this, not knowing I'm owning a unit in OA

Dear xxx

Good buy for One Amber. Please call me for more information

Price: 1 br start from $1270 Ave, 2 br starts from $1250psf Ave, 3 br from $1150psf Ave
Land Size: 250,000 Sq Ft
Tenure: FREE HOLD
Expected TOP: 2nd Qtr 2010
Plot Ratio: 2.8
No. of Towers: 4
No. of Storey: 23
No. of units: 562

The Shore

Price: 1 br start from $1250psf Ave, 2 br starts from $1230psf Ave
Land Size: 191,037 Sq Ft
Tenure: 103 Years Leasehold
Expected TOP: 31 Dec 2015
Plot Ratio: 2.1
No. of Towers: 6 (A1, A2, B, C, D1, D2)
No. of Storey: 20 (Tower A1 & A1 start from level 7)
No. of units: 408


Hmmm. Is my OA undervalue? Time to increase price?

bargain hunter
03-12-09, 09:50
am i right to say that those leases we see 103 year leasehold are actually freehold land held by somebody other than the government but sold on this much shorter 103 year leasehold? have seen this 103 year leasehold thinghy for 8@mount sophia, far east's The Greenwood clustered houses and now here at The Shore. So quite easy to differentiate lah, when see 103 year leasehold, just avoid.





One agent email me this, not knowing I'm owning a unit in OA

Dear xxx

Good buy for One Amber. Please call me for more information

Price: 1 br start from $1270 Ave, 2 br starts from $1250psf Ave, 3 br from $1150psf Ave
Land Size: 250,000 Sq Ft
Tenure: FREE HOLD
Expected TOP: 2nd Qtr 2010
Plot Ratio: 2.8
No. of Towers: 4
No. of Storey: 23
No. of units: 562

The Shore

Price: 1 br start from $1250psf Ave, 2 br starts from $1230psf Ave
Land Size: 191,037 Sq Ft
Tenure: 103 Years Leasehold
Expected TOP: 31 Dec 2015
Plot Ratio: 2.1
No. of Towers: 6 (A1, A2, B, C, D1, D2)
No. of Storey: 20 (Tower A1 & A1 start from level 7)
No. of units: 408

proud owner
03-12-09, 09:57
am i right to say that those leases we see 103 year leasehold are actually freehold land held by somebody other than the government but sold on this much shorter 103 year leasehold? have seen this 103 year leasehold thinghy for 8@mount sophia, far east's The Greenwood clustered houses and now here at The Shore. So quite easy to differentiate lah, when see 103 year leasehold, just avoid.


thats right

on a FH land launch a 103 yr leasehold project .. assuming take yr to build ..dilly dally TOP just nice 99 yr ...

after 99 yr take back land and launch again ...

agree ..AVOID BIG TIME this kind of project ...

xebay11
03-12-09, 10:01
thats right

on a FH land launch a 103 yr leasehold project .. assuming take yr to build ..dilly dally TOP just nice 99 yr ...

after 99 yr take back land and launch again ...

agree ..AVOID BIG TIME this kind of project ...

Alamak at least FEO make the lease nicely 103 years and by TOP just nice 99 years left, better than many start construction already 99 years, so by the time TOP less than 99 years left :D just my two cents.

Property_Owner
03-12-09, 10:02
How prefectly they time the leasehold. They will instruct the agents to tell buyers

''You buy other leasehold only 99yrs, Upon TOP left 95 yrs. The Shore is better, 103 years, upon TOP still have 99yrs.''

See! This is a scam.

bargain hunter
03-12-09, 10:03
but different, 99 years land is sold by government, easier to en-bloc after 20 to 30 years. 103 year lease is actually someone behind holding on to freehold land.


Alamak at least FEO make the lease nicely 103 years and by TOP just nice 99 years left, better than many start construction already 99 years, so by the time TOP less than 99 years left :D just my two cents.

bargain hunter
03-12-09, 10:04
classic FEO...yes, i have heard similar nonsense from them before.


How prefectly they time the leasehold. They will instruct the agents to tell buyers

''You buy other leasehold only 99yrs, Upon TOP left 95 yrs. The Shore is better, 103 years, upon TOP still have 99yrs.''

See! This is a scam.

xebay11
03-12-09, 10:08
but different, 99 years land is sold by government, easier to en-bloc after 20 to 30 years. 103 year lease is actually someone behind holding on to freehold land.

You are absolutely right. My big grin is because I am being sarcastic, like as if the small 4 years extra lease is actually even worth the two cents I am posting, because the land is ultimately still held by FEO.

But many times Singapore buyers get taken in by small perks and fail to see the big picture. Buying 99 yr LH properties especially for own stay, is one of them.

Reporter
03-12-09, 12:59
..........
..........

Your questions prompted me to do some research. What I've said above is out-dated by a few years (maybe it shows my age). There's now no distinction in enblocs between so-called "privately issued" or "Govt-issued" L999 since about 4 yrs back. See article below:-

Published January 26, 2006

Hoi Hup bags Kim Yam Mansion in $63m collective sale

By KALPANA RASHIWALA

PROPERTY developer Hoi Hup, part of Straits Construction Group, is understood to have bagged the 877-year leasehold Kim Yam Mansion, off River Valley Road, for about $63 million through a collective sale.

.........

Kim Yam Mansion is the first collective sale to benefit from a new law that took effect last month, facilitating en bloc sales of estates where the original landowner/developer retains the freehold title despite giving flat owners leases ranging from 850 to just under 999 years.

In such estates, strata titles were not issued under an old law, so the developer issued long leases instead. In the past, some of these landowners demanded hefty payments - amounting to millions of dollars - before they would consent to an en bloc sale.

This ate into proceeds for the flat owners, sometimes effectively blocking an en bloc deal.

Jones Lang LaSalle, Kim Yam's marketing agent, worked with real estate lawyer S K Phang to highlight the anomaly in the law to the authorities.

This was fixed through an amendment to the Land Titles (Strata) Act that took effect on Dec 1, under which such landowners lose all rights to the land upon an en bloc sale.

The Singapore Land Authority has said that in all, 24 sites will be affected by the rule change - but did not identify them to protect the privacy of the present unit owners.
Anyway, there are only 24 such sites. So I think no issue for any L999 enblocs to go through, because no lease extensions required due to many hundred yrs left. But for L99 sites, lease extension will largely depend on whether the Govt has alternate plans for the site after the lease is over.

For the L99 CPF restriction thingee, since 4 yrs back, it has been relaxed a little. CPF can now be used for properties with leases between 30 to 59yrs, but in smaller %s, depending on owner's age and remaining lease. You can check on the CPF website.

Sorry for being so long-winded.

Maybe eleong can help?

housewife
03-12-09, 18:28
where to check if land is LH or FH? and where to check for the condo?

Wild Falcon
03-12-09, 20:04
Oh. I didn't know developers can do that. This means those who buy Dunman View can forget about enbloc EVER. The land belongs to FEO - not the govt, so presumably FEO will have very high bargaining power when it comes to lease top up since the owners have no other option. In any case, the land revert back to FEO after 99 years - they are not govt, chances are they will throw everyone out when the lease term is over - just like any other landlord.


Dunman View is a good example from FEO.

Reporter
03-12-09, 20:20
Oh. I didn't know developers can do that. This means those who buy Dunman View can forget about enbloc EVER. The land belongs to FEO - not the govt, so presumably FEO will have very high bargaining power when it comes to lease top up since the owners have no other option. In any case, the land revert back to FEO after 99 years - they are not govt, chances are they will throw everyone out when the lease term is over - just like any other landlord.
Have you read "Hoi Hup bags Kim Yam Mansion in $63M collective sale" on The Business Times dated 26 January 2006 prior to commenting?

nochoice
03-12-09, 20:49
Have you read "Hoi Hup bags Kim Yam Mansion in $63M collective sale" on The Business Times dated 26 January 2006 prior to commenting?

Am I right to said that FEO will lose its rights to the land upon an en bloc sale. For example, if after 30 yrs, owners of the shore wants to en bloc, FEO can't do anything? If thats the case, it does not make sense for FEO to sell as leasehold....:confused:

peterng8
03-12-09, 20:57
Please refer to "The Shore@District 15/Start Reservation w/cheques now! (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=8635&highlight=shore)" thread. In particular, a few of us have concluded that far east may be selling The Shore as a 99 year leasehold on a Freehold plot of land. Be aware and decide whether that is fair or not before you buy.


thanks, as received FEO invitation to VVIP preview on this property...:) ...maybe drop by to see how ...

nochoice
03-12-09, 21:01
thanks, as received FEO invitation to VVIP preview on this property...:) ...maybe drop by to see how ...

when is the actual date for VVIP?

housewife
03-12-09, 21:32
Have you read "Hoi Hup bags Kim Yam Mansion in $63M collective sale" on The Business Times dated 26 January 2006 prior to commenting?
that was referring to "landowner/developer retains the freehold title despite giving flat owners leases ranging from 850 to just under 999 years." and "The Singapore Land Authority has said that in all, 24 sites..." so 99yr LH from FH is not included right? so up to now they still can safely lease 99yr and make money from it in future, right?

peterng8
03-12-09, 21:51
thanks, as received FEO invitation to VVIP preview on this property...:) ...maybe drop by to see how ...


oh sorry, see wrongly...it should be Private preview...VVip preview is for my children toy sale event...haha:doh:

bargain hunter
03-12-09, 22:08
i think we need eleong's help (since he is the original poster of the Hoi Hup Waterford Residences article) before we start confusing everybody. :)

I agree with you. FEO is the most shrewd developer on the block, they can't be so dumb.


Am I right to said that FEO will lose its rights to the land upon an en bloc sale. For example, if after 30 yrs, owners of the shore wants to en bloc, FEO can't do anything? If thats the case, it does not make sense for FEO to sell as leasehold....:confused:

bargain hunter
03-12-09, 22:10
i also think the article does not cover the FH land sold as 103 years leasehold developments.


that was referring to "landowner/developer retains the freehold title despite giving flat owners leases ranging from 850 to just under 999 years." and "The Singapore Land Authority has said that in all, 24 sites..." so 99yr LH from FH is not included right? so up to now they still can safely lease 99yr and make money from it in future, right?

proud owner
04-12-09, 01:34
Oh. I didn't know developers can do that. This means those who buy Dunman View can forget about enbloc EVER. The land belongs to FEO - not the govt, so presumably FEO will have very high bargaining power when it comes to lease top up since the owners have no other option. In any case, the land revert back to FEO after 99 years - they are not govt, chances are they will throw everyone out when the lease term is over - just like any other landlord.


NOw you know why ???

i have been laughed at for being a FH only buyer ..

thats one good reason why i will only buy FH ..

in fact i am the one who started this thread 999 vs FH .. cos i am not even sure i is 999 yr lease property good/safe enough

proud owner
04-12-09, 01:37
oh sorry, see wrongly...it should be Private preview...VVip preview is for my children toy sale event...haha:doh:

be careful ah ....

a few of us already concluded FEO's scheme ahah


and why Private ??? cos FEO wants you to go quietly , dont let us influence you ??


dont let this Private Preview turn into a Future Regret ...

eleong
04-12-09, 10:08
i think we need eleong's help (since he is the original poster of the Hoi Hup Waterford Residences article) before we start confusing everybody. :)

I agree with you. FEO is the most shrewd developer on the block, they can't be so dumb.

Errr... not really sure if i'm helping or confusing everyone. I'm just a layperson like most of us here.

The Dec 2005 amendment to the Land Strata Titles Act states that: "The Minister hereby specifies that sections 84E and 84F of the Act shall also apply where there are subsisting leases of flats in any development registered under the Land Titles Act (Cap. 157) or the Registration of Deeds Act (Cap. 269) for a leasehold estate of 850 years or more but less than 999 years and where the proprietors of the flats do not own the land comprised in the development."

So this applies only to LH999 land. I'm not even sure if it also applies to L999 land with less than 850 yrs left in the lease. I suppose the rationale may be a 999yrs lease is so long that it may be seen to be in perpetuity, so owners of a 999yrs lease should be seen to have similar rights as outright owners of the land.

For the case of L99 sites, I think it will depend on the lease conditions set by the original landowners if enbloc is possible.

bargain hunter
04-12-09, 10:14
thanks. at least we know the rule ONLY applies to these 850 years and above Freehold sold as leaseholds. 99 or 103 years leasehold sitting on privately owned freehold land...BEWARE!


Errr... not really sure if i'm helping or confusing everyone. I'm just a layperson like most of us here.

The Dec 2005 amendment to the Land Strata Titles Act states that: "The Minister hereby specifies that sections 84E and 84F of the Act shall also apply where there are subsisting leases of flats in any development registered under the Land Titles Act (Cap. 157) or the Registration of Deeds Act (Cap. 269) for a leasehold estate of 850 years or more but less than 999 years and where the proprietors of the flats do not own the land comprised in the development."

So this applies only to LH999 land. I'm not even sure if it also applies to L999 land with less than 850 yrs left in the lease. I suppose the rationale may be a 999yrs lease is so long that it may be seen to be in perpetuity, so owners of a 999yrs lease should be seen to have similar rights as outright owners of the land.

For the case of L99 sites, I think it will depend on the lease conditions set by the original landowners if enbloc is possible.

peterng8
04-12-09, 19:59
be careful ah ....

a few of us already concluded FEO's scheme ahah


and why Private ??? cos FEO wants you to go quietly , dont let us influence you ??


dont let this Private Preview turn into a Future Regret ...


:) maybe they think existing customer better to influence than getting new customers.....which costs higher to have :D

Victor14
06-12-09, 01:48
after going thru page 1 to page 4.. don u guys find it weird that the thread starter nv make a single cooment?? haha.. though i am a agent myself i also find that SOME developers are out to 'con' buyers.. right bro?? yes i do wan to make $ thru comm but after effect is tat the agt kana 'curse' n nt the developer.. haiz...:banghead:

proud owner
06-12-09, 02:12
after going thru page 1 to page 4.. don u guys find it weird that the thread starter nv make a single cooment?? haha.. though i am a agent myself i also find that SOME developers are out to 'con' buyers.. right bro?? yes i do wan to make $ thru comm but after effect is tat the agt kana 'curse' n nt the developer.. haiz...:banghead:

haha thanks for highlighting

you are right, SEA started this thread and disappeared ... maybe he/ she also only just realise its a LH project on a FH land ...

maybe he also feel bad about what FEO is doing .. hence decides to stay out

bargain hunter
06-12-09, 12:31
in classifieds, there are a few adverts for The Shore and NONE WOULD SAY WHETHER ITS FREEHOLD OR LEASEHOLD...totally avoid bringing up the topic at all!


haha thanks for highlighting

you are right, SEA started this thread and disappeared ... maybe he/ she also only just realise its a LH project on a FH land ...

maybe he also feel bad about what FEO is doing .. hence decides to stay out

gfoo
06-12-09, 18:23
an FEO agent mentioned that they've already got 60 chqs in hand - poor idiots

bargain hunter
06-12-09, 19:10
the worst part is even SMS by FEO employees contains all the details:

1 to 4 bedroom units in 6 towers,
spacious 191,000 sq ft of site area,
lifestyle amenities,
'excellent value' 1 bedroom 658k and 2 bedroom from 1.15m :doh:,
Rental in area is 2.5 to 3.5k for 1 bedroom so rental yield is 4.5% to 6.3%,

EXCEPT ANY MENTION OF TENURE WHATSOEVER, LEASEHOLD OR OTHERWISE. They normally would mention in their SMS for other projects. They are probably too embarassed to mention. If they say 103 year leasehold, people will ask them why 103 such an odd number and when the neighbouring land is all freehold (especially for those who remember Rose Garden used to be Freehold)? and you don't expect them to say because Far East continues to own the Freehold land. :D I wonder how many have thrown in the cheques happily assuming it is freehold. :banghead:

Totally disgusted with such a despicable act by a company owned by singapore's richest man.



an FEO agent mentioned that they've already got 60 chqs in hand - poor idiots

iamforum
06-12-09, 19:33
Well

buyers will know what are they buying

and everyone buy it for a different reason

Why bother about it so much?

You mean those buyers just buy without

studying the project ?

LoL:o

Property_Owner
06-12-09, 19:38
after going thru page 1 to page 4.. don u guys find it weird that the thread starter nv make a single cooment?? haha.. though i am a agent myself i also find that SOME developers are out to 'con' buyers.. right bro?? yes i do wan to make $ thru comm but after effect is tat the agt kana 'curse' n nt the developer.. haiz...:banghead:


F*CK OFF!!

Property_Owner
06-12-09, 19:40
Totally disgusted with such a despicable act by a company owned by singapore's richest man.


dude, dun blame him lah. He seldom bother his business too much these days

bargain hunter
06-12-09, 20:04
i don't blame him. its his company (now run by his son, i think???) that is ruining his reputation.


dude, dun blame him lah. He seldom bother his business too much these days

bargain hunter
06-12-09, 20:08
hard to say if the buyers have studied the project u know...:D

872 sq ft of 2 bedrooms at 1.15m on average is more than 1300psf for 103 year leasehold in D15.




Well

buyers will know what are they buying

and everyone buy it for a different reason

Why bother about it so much?

You mean those buyers just buy without

studying the project ?

LoL:o

iamforum
06-12-09, 20:13
hard to say if the buyers have studied the project u know...:D

872 sq ft of 2 bedrooms at 1.15m on average is more than 1300psf for 103 year leasehold in D15.

ever heard of someone paid 750k

for a HDB unit:o ?

gfoo
06-12-09, 21:50
Well

buyers will know what are they buying

and everyone buy it for a different reason

Why bother about it so much?

You mean those buyers just buy without

studying the project ?

LoL:o

feo is famous for busing in indonesians/prc investors by the busloads for property tours - these people won't know the innate rep feo has locally, or the implications of being at the mercy of the developer after 103 years . 99yr LH govt land buyers' descendants have a good chance of redevelopment/embloc options, the descendants of these Shore buyers will prob have to start selling seashells by the seashore

bargain hunter
06-12-09, 22:08
if u think about it, a 5-rm hdb, 1,300sq ft flat for 750k at marine terrace with panaromic (real unblocked) full sea view and definite en-bloc potential (albeit not at premium prcies) is more sane than a 1.15m 2 bedroom, 872 sq ft, apartment with no special view and no en-bloc potential. ;)


ever heard of someone paid 750k

for a HDB unit:o ?

nochoice
06-12-09, 22:28
hard to say if the buyers have studied the project u know...:D

872 sq ft of 2 bedrooms at 1.15m on average is more than 1300psf for 103 year leasehold in D15.

Too bad the Seaview dont have 2 bedrm, for 1.15m for 2 bedrm, I will buy OA or ESTA anytime. But when this project completed, think it will bring pressure to rental market there, esp for studio units.

iamforum
06-12-09, 23:08
haha

everyone have his/her own stands

forum is just a place where each and

everyone voice out his/her views.

bargain hunter
06-12-09, 23:32
Precisely! Agree with you on both points.


Too bad the Seaview dont have 2 bedrm, for 1.15m for 2 bedrm, I will buy OA or ESTA anytime. But when this project completed, think it will bring pressure to rental market there, esp for studio units.

blackfire
07-12-09, 08:42
then guys, for studio unit which will you buy? 1. Seaview F.H 560sf@$750k-$820k. 2. One Amber F.H 570sf@$690k - $740k 3. the Shore 592sf 99 LH@$670k-$7xxk?


I would recommend Seaview. Very exclusive development in D15, mostly expats and common facilities are not crowded. One Amber is rather far to Parkway Parade.

nochoice
07-12-09, 09:24
I would recommend Seaview. Very exclusive development in D15, mostly expats and common facilities are not crowded. One Amber is rather far to Parkway Parade.

Of course SV has the best of both world, its near parkway and is freehold, but... dont have 2 bed rm. A 2+1, 1216 sf will easily cost you more than 1.45 mil, I agree with u, unless you are buying a studio there which cost more than $760k, Still its better value than the shore...thats my personal view...:)

Property_Owner
07-12-09, 20:29
I would recommend Seaview. Very exclusive development in D15, mostly expats and common facilities are not crowded. One Amber is rather far to Parkway Parade.

You own a unit there or marketing one?:doh:

blackfire
07-12-09, 21:45
You own a unit there or marketing one?:doh:

Neither, i just comparing the 3 projects since someone asked. Personally the best project development in East Coast is Parc Seabreeze, excellent location,right in the center of all main amenities with sea/city view. The only problems are the address in Joo Chiat (address does matter in the property valuation) and the relatively small plot of land.

condoinvestor
08-12-09, 07:49
I would rate them in the following order:
1.Cote D Azur
2.Seaview
3.Silversea

xebay11
08-12-09, 07:58
Seaview is good but will be hemmed in from the North and South once FEO projects TOP, may be quite congested.

blackfire
08-12-09, 08:11
I would rate them in the following order:
1.Cote D Azur
2.Seaview
3.Silversea

Agreed that Cote D Azur is the best in terms of location, the only fallback is the small plot of land, and the developer has squeezed out all possible ways in using the plot of land and leveraging the sea view, hence low potential for enbloc in the future.

nochoice
08-12-09, 09:28
I would rate them in the following order:
1.Cote D Azur
2.Seaview
3.Silversea

In term of value for money and budget of less than a mil, I would rate::)
1. Seaview studio
2. One Amber studio or 2 bedroom(low flr) although a bit far from PP, but is FH
3. Cote D Azur, 99 LH studio or 2 bedrm

personally went to see few unit in ESTA but dont quite like it as the block is quite close facing one another and the 2 bedrm facing the mountbatten rd is quite noisy....

sealover
08-12-09, 12:36
The ranking would change in 5-10 yrs time once Marine Parade MRT and
New Katong Mall and few more new condos developed. I think Seaview being freehold and its location would still rank 1st or 2nd. The traffic noise/pollution from expressway should knock down ranking of those sea facing development despite good view and easy access to beach.

Laguna
08-12-09, 13:42
visited the sales gallery at SilverSea last nite. Many units below 12th floor (one/two bedrooms) were marked "reserved". Apparently, these were for cheques collected and will be booked in on Thursday. Yet to see.

The lowest psf is $1050 +. Std practice of FEO, high floor not to be released now. Show flat ready in Jan 2010.

Very poor site layout, about 30-40% of the land (total 191,000sq ft) is taken up for the road and the multiple storey carpark which comes with two roof top tennis courts.

Asked, why sold at 103 LH and not FH, answer, FEO wants to buy back next time for a mixed development.

Overall assessment of the project : there are much better buy at The Seaview and One Amber.

eng81157
08-12-09, 14:04
In term of value for money and budget of less than a mil, I would rate::)
1. Seaview studio
2. One Amber studio or 2 bedroom(low flr) although a bit far from PP, but is FH
3. Cote D Azur, 99 LH studio or 2 bedrm

personally went to see few unit in ESTA but dont quite like it as the block is quite close facing one another and the 2 bedrm facing the mountbatten rd is quite noisy....

how about parc seabreeze? it's nearer to amenities than the developments situated along amber road.

Laguna
08-12-09, 15:02
It is going to be terribly noisy at the big junction with lot of human and car traffic 24x7

Joo Chiat Address

The land is too small

very big balcony with planter

too many balcony / planter

swimming pool next to a big traffic junction

condoinvestor
08-12-09, 15:24
Asked, why sold at 103 LH and not FH, answer, FEO wants to buy back next time for a mixed development.
Interesting, more like take back rather than buy back....

bargain hunter
08-12-09, 15:40
ie buy back at a price lower than today's sell price. :D 20 to 30 years time they will give today's buyers one chance to sell back, say depreciated and no one else can en-bloc so owners then will need to decide want to en-bloc or wait till 103 years lease is up.


Asked, why sold at 103 LH and not FH, answer, FEO wants to buy back next time for a mixed development.
Interesting, more like take back rather than buy back....

zimmer
08-12-09, 15:43
looks like very few good points abt this development.

sealover
08-12-09, 16:12
It is going to be terribly noisy at the big junction with lot of human and car traffic 24x7

Joo Chiat Address

The land is too small

very big balcony with planter

too many balcony / planter

swimming pool next to a big traffic junction

Isn't it most of the condos we mentioned are situated next to big traffic junction/circle. AngMos like big balcony. Difficult to compare Parc Seabreeze with the rest as it is a small development with only have 3 n 4 rms and most of our forumers are comparing studio to 2 rms.

nochoice
08-12-09, 17:36
how about parc seabreeze? it's nearer to amenities than the developments situated along amber road.

Parc seabreeze's location is good... but, thats if you dont mind the traffic. For me location although important, but will take into other consideration like eg. Parc seabreeze if I'm not wrong is not full condo status, cos dont have tennis court(whether you played tennis or not is another story). If is cost the roughly the same psf let says $1300psf for a 4 bedroom, which will you buy, the SeaView or Parc seabreeze (both are near PP)? thats your choice;)

sealover
08-12-09, 21:18
When talk about en-bloc potential, plse take note that from Master Plan, only Sea View, Shore, Parc Seabreeze areas have 2.1. Other such as Cote D Azul, Silver Sea, Esta, One Amber already almost max to 2.8.

URA will likely approve/auto increase 2.1 to >2.8 but not easy for those already 2.8.

Be mindful on these when you plan to buy one of these to hope for enbloc later.

proud owner
08-12-09, 21:47
When talk about en-bloc potential, plse take note that from Master Plan, only Sea View, Shore, Parc Seabreeze areas have 2.1. Other such as Cote D Azul, Silver Sea, Esta, One Amber already almost max to 2.8.

URA will likely approve/auto increase 2.1 to >2.8 but not easy for those already 2.8.

Be mindful on these when you plan to buy one of these to hope for enbloc later.


is the location is really good ... 30-40 yrs down the road ..developer can still apply URA and have the plot ratio increase from 2.8 to 3.8 ??

it is highly possible ...

anyway all these condos are so new .. i wont buy IF purely speculating on en bloc, rather put money on old old projects

eng81157
08-12-09, 21:48
Parc seabreeze's location is good... but, thats if you dont mind the traffic. For me location although important, but will take into other consideration like eg. Parc seabreeze if I'm not wrong is not full condo status, cos dont have tennis court(whether you played tennis or not is another story). If is cost the roughly the same psf let says $1300psf for a 4 bedroom, which will you buy, the SeaView or Parc seabreeze (both are near PP)? thats your choice;)

based on the development layout, there's a huge distance between marine parade road and parc seabreeze's facilities like swimming pool. if we say it's near to the main road, the argument would like across board to the other condos, like OA or Cote D'azur eh?

since i do not play tennis personally, hence i can't really comment much on the need for a tennis court.

if we compare proximity to amenities, e.g. groceries, market, parc seabreeze has a shorter walking distance to these features than seaview. isn't it so? probably the 3/4 bedrooms in parc seabreeze will cater preferably to larger families, which would probably appreciate proximity to amenities. just my thoughts

blackfire
08-12-09, 22:00
Asked, why sold at 103 LH and not FH, answer, FEO wants to buy back next time for a mixed development.
Interesting, more like take back rather than buy back....

Interesting what gg to happen 20-30 years later. Is FEO gg to buy back at the its own selling price? If FEO is expecting to buy at a higher price, then it does not make sense as FEO might as well leave the plot empty till then. although one may argue that there is holding cost for the land, but there is also the construction and development cost for this project. So FEO is actually passing the property market risk to the buyers, but with limited upside as FEO still can timed the "enbloc"

Property_Owner
09-12-09, 17:04
is the location is really good ... 30-40 yrs down the road ..developer can still apply URA and have the plot ratio increase from 2.8 to 3.8 ??

it is highly possible ...

anyway all these condos are so new .. i wont buy IF purely speculating on en bloc, rather put money on old old projects

How to increase to 3.8. One main concern is East coast area have height restriction.

xebay11
09-12-09, 17:28
How to increase to 3.8. One main concern is East coast area have height restriction.

Yes due to proximity to airport.

teddybear
09-12-09, 17:28
Unlikely because near seaside in South nowsdays gonna earth quake tremors from indonesia. The higher you live, the worse it will be. Heard Marine Parade quite badly inflicted by the tremors. Did anybody experience that?


is the location is really good ... 30-40 yrs down the road ..developer can still apply URA and have the plot ratio increase from 2.8 to 3.8 ??

it is highly possible ...

anyway all these condos are so new .. i wont buy IF purely speculating on en bloc, rather put money on old old projects

Reporter
09-12-09, 19:48
http://www.h88.com.sg/images/h88_masthead_logo.jpg
The Shore Residences comes to Amber Road
H88
Wednesday, 9 December 2009, 15:50

http://www.h88.com.sg/images/content/2009-12-09/theshore_poolview.jpg

Lovers of Katong rejoice, The Shore Residences at Amber Road is ready to launch. The 99-year leasehold condo developed by Far East Organisation is right opposite Katong Shopping Centre and just a short walk away from Parkway Parade.


Location
http://www.h88.com.sg/images/content/2009-12-09/theshore_locationmap.jpg
Note: Map overlay is approximate

Lease: ...... 99-year
Site Area: . ~191,037 sqft
Developer: Far East Organisation
Estimated TOP: 2015
Blocks: 6
Floors: 20 storeys
Units: . 408 total, Studio (84), 2BR (208), 3BR (88), 4BR (24), Penthouse (4)
Typical Sizes:
............ Studio (592 - 732 sqft)
............ 2BR (872 – 1,055 sqft)
............ 3BR (1,141 - 1,507 sqft)
............ 4BR (1,378 – 1,432 sqft)
............ Penthouse (2,766 sqft)


Sitemap
http://www.h88.com.sg/images/content/2009-12-09/theshore_sitemap.jpg


Facilities

Lagoon Pools
50m Lap Pool
Cliff Villa
Spa Pools
Sunbathing Decks
BBQ Cabanas
Tennis Courts
Gymnasium
Sauna.
Floorplan (Tower A1, 9th Storey)
http://www.h88.com.sg/images/content/2009-12-09/theshore_floorplan.jpg
Note: These floorplans are not yet finalized

Word is that 1 and 2 BR units are being offered in a special VVIP preview, prices rumoured to be around $1,100 to $1,150 psf.


Words from the FEO website:
A tropical retreat at your doorstep.

Located in the vibrant Katong vicinity and close to well-known eateries like Katong Laksa, The Shore Residences offers a beachfront lifestyle in tranquility, an oasis away from the city. Comprising 1-4 bedroom units spread over 6 towers, residents will enjoy close proximity to East Coast Park as well as a host of amenities situated in the neighbourhood. The Shore Residences is also a short 10 minutes drive to Marina Bay and CBD.

Occupying a spacious site area of over 191,000 sq ft, The Shore Residences features several lifestyle amenities dotted all over the premises. Offering full condominium facilities, residents get to enjoy BBQ cabanas, spa pool, spa pavilion, children’s playground, 50m lap pool, gym, sauna, the Clift Villa and 2 tennis courts. Of special mention is the lagoon that is made with sand to let residents enjoy the senses of beautiful shores at their door steps. The Shore Residences offers excellent value as prices for 1-bedroom units start from S$658K while 2-bedroom units start from S$1.1 million.*

Thoughtful design has been integrated with the layout of the development as there are no planter boxes nor bay windows, offering residents efficient maximization of space.

Due to good response, level 12 is now open for booking.

Wild Falcon
09-12-09, 19:53
FEO owns the freehold land. The owners are merely "tenants" renting from FEO for 99 years. How can tenants sell the owner's house? In short, even if the buyers of the property want to enbloc, the potential new developers would have to negotiate with FEO for the lease topup and FEO will not agree easily. In short, whoever who buy this have no choice but to go to FEO after 20-30 years to enbloc with no bargaining chip. FEO will NOT lose the right to the land unless FEO agree to sell. Remember, FEO, a private developer is merely leasing the land to the "tenants".


Am I right to said that FEO will lose its rights to the land upon an en bloc sale. For example, if after 30 yrs, owners of the shore wants to en bloc, FEO can't do anything? If thats the case, it does not make sense for FEO to sell as leasehold....:confused:

Wild Falcon
09-12-09, 19:56
Agree. unlikely plot ratio will go any higher at East Coast because of the weak sand bed that is reported to sink few cm per year. With technonic plates moving and earthquake happening every few weeks, I don't think the govt will take the risk in building super high buildings here. Marine Parade is usually one of the worst-hit areas that appears in the news every time there is a quake in a neighbouring country.


Unlikely because near seaside in South nowsdays gonna earth quake tremors from indonesia. The higher you live, the worse it will be. Heard Marine Parade quite badly inflicted by the tremors. Did anybody experience that?

nochoice
09-12-09, 21:05
latest news from property guru FEO ad : all studio units fully booked! :eek:

condoinvestor
09-12-09, 21:12
Hi Reporter, in the sitemap, what is the grey area in the driveway

condoinvestor
09-12-09, 21:14
latest news from property guru FEO ad : all studio units fully booked! :eek:

Why am I not surprised, mickey mouse mania......

nochoice
09-12-09, 21:20
Hi Reporter, in the sitemap, what is the grey area in the driveway

Its a 5 storey muti-storey carpark! The carpark and the road took away 30-40% of the whole condo site.:doh:

zeq
09-12-09, 21:21
My friend told me to avoid FEO condos. They are overpriced and their quality is.....hahaa............
Now they selling 99 yr on a freehold condo.
OMG.

gfoo
09-12-09, 21:29
dun mean to be vulgar but truly like never before, these buyers are

fuhkwits

condoinvestor
09-12-09, 21:29
Its a 5 storey muti-storey carpark! The carpark and the road took away 30-40% of the whole condo site.:doh:

L SHAPE MULTI STOREY CAR PARK!! Seems weird......

condoinvestor
09-12-09, 21:31
dun mean to be vulgar but truly like never before, these buyers are

fuhkwits

I think you are being too polite.....

nochoice
09-12-09, 22:01
dun mean to be vulgar but truly like never before, these buyers are

fuhkwits

These are 1st buyers still ok, imagine if they want to flip... those subsale buyer that buy from them...:doh:

proud owner
09-12-09, 22:30
FEO owns the freehold land. The owners are merely "tenants" renting from FEO for 99 years. How can tenants sell the owner's house? In short, even if the buyers of the property want to enbloc, the potential new developers would have to negotiate with FEO for the lease topup and FEO will not agree easily. In short, whoever who buy this have no choice but to go to FEO after 20-30 years to enbloc with no bargaining chip. FEO will NOT lose the right to the land unless FEO agree to sell. Remember, FEO, a private developer is merely leasing the land to the "tenants".

well FEO is smart ..

30-40 yrs down the road ... say CDL wants to enbloc the place.. FEO's grandchildren just say ok TOP UP FEE 100 mio .. and the enbloc goes thru ..

their whole family/ generation will continue to 'earn' for doing nothing ...

Property_Owner
10-12-09, 00:02
MSCP again?

At least this time agent will say your cars will be safe from flood

DKSG
10-12-09, 09:58
I feel compelled to share my views on the LH/FH issue.

There are a lot of people who seems interested in events 40 years down the road when maybe a big part of us are gone.

The price difference between a FH and LH is about 15-16% theoritically and realistically.

When property prices move UP, this gap is narrowed. When property prices move DOWN, this gap is widened.

Imagine if I promise to pay you $100 in 50 years time and ask u for $20 now ? Would u entertain me ? The value attached to cash flows that is past 50 years from now is literally worth very little. And if you extend the same calculation, cashflows 100 years later is worth near nothing at the present value.

So buyers, dont be misled by some of the posts. If you see a FH selling for $1.2 million and a LH selling for $1,000,000 ... both same size same location. Go for the LH, its underpriced.

Dont overpay for FH.

PS : I do own LH and FH properties and I dont treat them too differently when it comes to buying or selling. If you use the concepts put forth by some people here, then u cannot sell FH properties lo ... because when u buy them now at $1 million, they are worth about $1 billion because they give you cashflows FOREVER and EVER.

Just my 2 cents worth of comments.

DKSG

xebay11
10-12-09, 10:18
DKSG do you have kids? For me leaving a FH property to my kids or future generations is priceless, I would gladly pay the 15-16% premium, as that premium is nothing in the next 40 to 50 years time.

Reporter
10-12-09, 10:25
I feel compelled to share my views on the LH/FH issue.

There are a lot of people who seems interested in events 40 years down the road when maybe a big part of us are gone.

The price difference between a FH and LH is about 15-16% theoritically and realistically.

When property prices move UP, this gap is narrowed. When property prices move DOWN, this gap is widened.

Imagine if I promise to pay you $100 in 50 years time and ask u for $20 now ? Would u entertain me ? The value attached to cash flows that is past 50 years from now is literally worth very little. And if you extend the same calculation, cashflows 100 years later is worth near nothing at the present value.

So buyers, dont be misled by some of the posts. If you see a FH selling for $1.2 million and a LH selling for $1,000,000 ... both same size same location. Go for the LH, its underpriced.

Dont overpay for FH.

PS : I do own LH and FH properties and I dont treat them too differently when it comes to buying or selling. If you use the concepts put forth by some people here, then u cannot sell FH properties lo ... because when u buy them now at $1 million, they are worth about $1 billion because they give you cashflows FOREVER and EVER.

Just my 2 cents worth of comments.

DKSG
You are being rational and analytical.

However, when freehold is concerned, many tie their emotion to it. It is the feeling. Owning FH property forever is more important than return on investment/capital.

I love FH properties too. However, one should not rule out that some LH properties can have a higher ROI. It really depends on the individual property pricing.

xebay11
10-12-09, 10:38
You are being rational and analytical.

However, when freehold is concerned, many tie their emotion to it. It is the feeling. Owning FH property forever is more important than return on investment/capital.

I love FH properties too. However, one should not rule out that some LH properties can have a higher ROI. It really depends on the individual property pricing.

Analysing LH properties for ROI is simply an investment POV. I am sometimes willing to forgo the short term ROI and look at the long road. I would only consider LH if it has potential for very short term gain ie. flipping.

Reporter
10-12-09, 10:44
DKSG do you have kids? For me leaving a FH property to my kids or future generations is priceless, I would gladly pay the 15-16% premium, as that premium is nothing in the next 40 to 50 years time.
I am preparing to leave 2 FH properties for my 2 kids too.

However, I know very well that by doing so, I may or may not have the best ROI. (It really depends on the FH's premium over LH.) Perhaps there is a better way of passing wealth to them? (I am not sure.)

Maybe that 2 FH properties will never reach them due to enbloc?
Maybe they could have more wealth with a LH resale/enbloc?

That's why I don't argue on FH vs LH.
For investment, it's all about ROI.
For personal preference/emotion, what's there to argue?

proud owner
10-12-09, 10:48
I am preparing to leave 2 FH properties for my 2 kids too.

However, I know very well that by doing so, I may or may not have the best ROI. (It really depends on the FH's premium over LH.) Perhaps there is a better way of passing wealth to them? (I am not sure.)

Maybe that 2 FH properties will never reach them due to enbloc?
Maybe they could have more wealth with a LH resale/enbloc?

That's why I don't argue on FH vs LH.
For investment, it's all about ROI.
For personal preference/emotion, what's there to argue?

for best return .. maybe a LH in a prime location

for best value and future value .. FH LANDED

thats my take

gfoo
10-12-09, 11:13
i'm not as smart as dksg and the rest here - LH fr govt makes sense esp when they have a vested interest in urban renewal - areas that define the city skyline, close to national megabuck initiatives, right on top of tpt hubs etc - such areas perpertuate if not encourage urban renewal.

LH for suburban areas havr less impetous for govt encouraged estate renewal, they will just leave it to the free market as long as buildings stay structurally safe.

LH from private FH like the Shore lagi worse,

bargain hunter
10-12-09, 11:26
sums up what i wanted to say to DKSG. we are not against leasehold here from investment/ROI point of view.

Its only this particular project, leasehold sitting on freehold developer owned land and priced like a freehold project. :doh: 1.15m (1300psf) for 2 bedder. There's no discount to FH next door at all!



i'm not as smart as dksg and the rest here - LH fr govt makes sense esp when they have a vested interest in urban renewal - areas that define the city skyline, close to national megabuck initiatives, right on top of tpt hubs etc - such areas perpertuate if not encourage urban renewal.

LH for suburban areas havr less impetous for govt encouraged estate renewal, they will just leave it to the free market as long as buildings stay structurally safe.

LH from private FH like the Shore lagi worse,

gfoo
10-12-09, 11:50
sums up what i wanted to say to DKSG. we are not against leasehold here from investment/ROI point of view.

Its only this particular project, leasehold sitting on freehold developer owned land and priced like a freehold project. :doh: 1.15m (1300psf) for 2 bedder. There's no discount to FH next door at all!

yup. at least LH from govt 99 years later they wanna take land back they have a social contract to ensure those staying in that land have a backdoor out - affected citizens can do a lot of nonsense things like referendums, votes, sit-ins, call in UN lah and press etc - make it political.

if after 103yrs FEO wants to take back land and ask you to fly kite? Nothing you can do. Maybe out of the kindness of their hearts they will give you additional 5% discount in the new development.

pple please dun be stupid - buying LH from govt means you are putting your family/descendants under temporary shelter subject to the auspices of the govt, which at the end of the day represent the people/society.

buying LH from FEO means you are putting your family/descendants under temporary shelter subject to the auspices of the descendants of Ng Teng Fong and Company, which represent no one other than themselves, have a reputation of you know what, and are totally motivated only by profit.

but if you've already put in a cheque and bought a unit after all this talk in this thread to advise otherwise, then yes - you are truly a fuhkwit

nochoice
10-12-09, 11:51
MSCP again?

At least this time agent will say your cars will be safe from flood

For a LH development that is selling $1.1k-$1.4Kpsf unit, you still have to walk a distance to your block after parking your car....:mad: . Is MSCP easier and cheaper to build than underground CP? Maybe they have a budget to meet.:p

Reporter
10-12-09, 12:04
yup. at least LH from govt 99 years later they wanna take land back they have a social contract to ensure those staying in that land have a backdoor out - affected citizens can do a lot of nonsense things like referendums, votes, sit-ins, call in UN lah and press etc - make it political.

if after 103yrs FEO wants to take back land and ask you to fly kite? Nothing you can do. Maybe out of the kindness of their hearts they will give you additional 5% discount in the new development.

pple please dun be stupid - buying LH from govt means you are putting your family/descendants under temporary shelter subject to the auspices of the govt, which at the end of the day represent the people/society.

buying LH from FEO means you are putting your family/descendants under temporary shelter subject to the auspices of the descendants of Ng Teng Fong and Company, which represent no one other than themselves, have a reputation of you know what, and are totally motivated only by profit.

but if you've already put in a cheque and bought a unit after all this talk in this thread to advise otherwise, then yes - you are truly a fuhkwit
I agree with your argument. Nevertheless, people buys for different objectives. They may have done their sums. Perhaps we should not judge their decisions too "narrowly"?

Personally, I think it is not nice for FEO to sell such a product if their "top-up premium" is not tie to the government's "top-up" formula.

gfoo
10-12-09, 12:13
I agree with your argument. Nevertheless, people buys for different objectives. They may have done their sums. Perhaps we should not judge their decisions too "narrowly"?

Personally, I think it is not nice for FEO to sell such a product if their "top-up premium" is not tie to the government's "top-up" formula.

if you've been to a feo showflat lately, the sleight of hand they pull make it hard for rational buyers to see the obvious.

the govt's top-up formula is tied to public sentiment, preceding transactions, and impetus to renew a particular area - e.g spottiswoode and cbd in 2003 onwards were 'encouraged' with low topups.

a pte developer is not tied to any formula, and can make any number of justifications for topup. they cannot be swayed by public vote, and the govt will let them run their course otherwise it will set a precedent - besides this is in the residential suburbs so wby would the govt interfere?

Regulators
10-12-09, 12:16
For leasehold commercial properties, the govt can and usually top up the lease for owners but the premium that one pays to top up the lease may not be as worthwhile as buying a freehold commercial property, but again depending on the business location. As for residential property, I hardly hear the government topping up leases unless the developer is taking over the land to develop a new project. Imagine you are 30 now and get a leasehold property for 2 generations to live, what would be the value of your property when you are 60 (30 years on) and want to pass on the property to your children? Some people talk about en bloc, but what if no developer is keen to enbloc the project as the land size etc is not favourable?

Property_Owner
10-12-09, 12:19
yup. at least LH from govt 99 years later they wanna take land back they have a social contract to ensure those staying in that land have a backdoor out - affected citizens can do a lot of nonsense things like referendums, votes, sit-ins, call in UN lah and press etc - make it political.

if after 103yrs FEO wants to take back land and ask you to fly kite? Nothing you can do. Maybe out of the kindness of their hearts they will give you additional 5% discount in the new development.

pple please dun be stupid - buying LH from govt means you are putting your family/descendants under temporary shelter subject to the auspices of the govt, which at the end of the day represent the people/society.

buying LH from FEO means you are putting your family/descendants under temporary shelter subject to the auspices of the descendants of Ng Teng Fong and Company, which represent no one other than themselves, have a reputation of you know what, and are totally motivated only by profit.

but if you've already put in a cheque and bought a unit after all this talk in this thread to advise otherwise, then yes - you are truly a fuhkwit

I strongly agree with you.

bargain hunter
10-12-09, 12:22
put in cheque still can back out. lose some money and let the option expire. some buyers of Centro did just that.


yup. at least LH from govt 99 years later they wanna take land back they have a social contract to ensure those staying in that land have a backdoor out - affected citizens can do a lot of nonsense things like referendums, votes, sit-ins, call in UN lah and press etc - make it political.

if after 103yrs FEO wants to take back land and ask you to fly kite? Nothing you can do. Maybe out of the kindness of their hearts they will give you additional 5% discount in the new development.

pple please dun be stupid - buying LH from govt means you are putting your family/descendants under temporary shelter subject to the auspices of the govt, which at the end of the day represent the people/society.

buying LH from FEO means you are putting your family/descendants under temporary shelter subject to the auspices of the descendants of Ng Teng Fong and Company, which represent no one other than themselves, have a reputation of you know what, and are totally motivated only by profit.

but if you've already put in a cheque and bought a unit after all this talk in this thread to advise otherwise, then yes - you are truly a fuhkwit

teddybear
10-12-09, 12:29
It is very obvious that MSCP is cheaper to build than underground car park because underground have to dig down first with additional costs and have to ensure no flooding mah! :p


For a LH development that is selling $1.1k-$1.4Kpsf unit, you still have to walk a distance to your block after parking your car....:mad: . Is MSCP easier and cheaper to build than underground CP? Maybe they have a budget to meet.:p

xebay11
10-12-09, 12:29
put in cheque still can back out. lose some money and let the option expire. some buyers of Centro did just that.

Wow at least $10k loss, not heart pain? better go through with it and try to recover money when TOP, there will be other f*ckwits.

xebay11
10-12-09, 12:31
Some people talk about en bloc, but what if no developer is keen to enbloc the project as the land size etc is not favourable?

Strongly agree, very easy to tell if future developer would be interested in en bloc, as long as there is no change in the plot ratio and the development is built to the maximum current plot ratio, the chances of enbloc are much slimmer.

Reporter
10-12-09, 12:32
For leasehold commercial properties, the govt can and usually top up the lease for owners but the premium that one pays to top up the lease may not be as worthwhile as buying a freehold commercial property, but again depending on the business location. As for residential property, I hardly hear the government topping up leases unless the developer is taking over the land to develop a new project. Imagine you are 30 now and get a leasehold property for 2 generations to live, what would be the value of your property when you are 60 (30 years on) and want to pass on the property to your children? Some people talk about en bloc, but what if no developer is keen to enbloc the project as the land size etc is not favourable?
I am not judging your argument here. I just want to ask some questions.

Maybe that "extra" money you spent on the FH commercial property will allow you to have "bigger return" from a larger LH commercial property? Maybe with the "bigger return" accumulated for years, you will still make a "gain" after substracting the "top-up premium"?

I believe the same question is applicable to LH residential property.

The LH property will regain its value after the "top-up". So what's the drawback? The drawback is the non-linearity in LH's value. When a LH approaches its "0 lease", its value drops a lot. When it is topped up, its value shoots up again. You must play long term. So long that you can't see or smell it. So long that you may say "FH is easier."

gfoo
10-12-09, 12:55
LH fr govt enblocs are straightforward and topups are foreseeable and hasslefree.

LH fr a pte developer will run into complications IF the developer decides to retain the land for his own purposes, and the likelihood of a competing developer entering to enbloc the place is significantly lower. so what if residents vote to enbloc when FEO can ultimately veto topups?

in such a scenario, LH value is truly depreciating and subservient

Regulators
10-12-09, 14:16
i hear about lease top-ups regularly for commercial properties and in fact, those old shophouses along the same stretch of road may often have varying leases remaining. I think condo lease top-ups is a different matter altogether. I have so far not come across a condo with the lease being topped up for another 99years after the age has hit for example 30 years. More often than not, the owners and developer would find it more lucrative to sell off the project entirely (en bloc) to another developer for redevelopment. If no developer wants to takeover for redevelopment, I think developers and Management committee would just wait and see or wait for a better offer to enbloc the project.



I am not judging your argument here. I just want to ask some questions.

Maybe that "extra" money you spent on the FH commercial property will allow you to have "bigger return" from a larger LH commercial property? Maybe with the "bigger return" accumulated for years, you will still make a "gain" after substracting the "top-up premium"?

I believe the same question is applicable to LH residential property.

The LH property will regain its value after the "top-up". So what's the drawback? The drawback is the non-linearity in LH's value. When a LH approaches its "0 lease", its value drops a lot. When it is topped up, its value shoots up again. You must play long term. So long that you can't see or smell it. So long that you may say "FH is easier."

DKSG
10-12-09, 18:10
Any agents out there who can provide sales data for this ?

I heard internal staff bought a sizeable chunk of this.

Concept and furnishings are high end.

But of course we do need confirmation, I just hear say only. Not in the showflat.

Miow
11-12-09, 10:48
Is this the first case in Singapore that a developer is retaining the freehold status and "leasing" the land to a project?

Isn't the developer usurping the "government role"?

Has anyone asked why the URA has allowed this? Surely FEO would not have gotten so far if the authorities had not allowed it? Is this a new development in Singapore land issues?

Will other developers follow FEO? Or has FEO exploited a loop hole that should be closed by the authorities?

All very puzzling and interesting....

proud owner
11-12-09, 11:01
Is this the first case in Singapore that a developer is retaining the freehold status and "leasing" the land to a project?

Isn't the developer usurping the "government role"?

Has anyone asked why the URA has allowed this? Surely FEO would not have gotten so far if the authorities had not allowed it? Is this a new development in Singapore land issues?

Will other developers follow FEO? Or has FEO exploited a loop hole that should be closed by the authorities?

All very puzzling and interesting....

i am not sure but i heard Dunman View ? also LH on a FH land

if true then this is not the first case

Miow
11-12-09, 11:09
i am not sure but i heard Dunman View ? also LH on a FH land

if true then this is not the first case

Then, why don't the other developers do the same?

Something not right....

proud owner
11-12-09, 11:14
Then, why don't the other developers do the same?

Something not right....

how many private / family owned developers are there that are rich enuff ...to take the risk ?

what if they launch and fail ?

only FEO rich enuff to HOLD until price reach their target ..

pearly
11-12-09, 11:36
Then, why don't the other developers do the same?

Something not right....

one may rather sell it at a go with a higher mark up, the concept of selling LH on FH land, technically speaking will eat into the short term profit for a long term ownership. In the perspective of the people, this is more irrelevant, but on a company stand point, its a very long term goal and target.

Reporter
11-12-09, 11:44
one may rather sell it at a go with a higher mark up, the concept of selling LH on FH land, technically speaking will eat into the short term profit for a long term ownership. In the perspective of the people, this is more irrelevant, but on a company stand point, its a very long term goal and target.
So long that you have to ensure that the company is still around after 99 years. The present owners or management will not benefit from it.

xebay11
11-12-09, 12:07
how many private / family owned developers are there that are rich enuff ...to take the risk ?

what if they launch and fail ?

only FEO rich enuff to HOLD until price reach their target ..

How can you fail? Aren't many 99 LH developments sold out if location is good?

xebay11
11-12-09, 12:08
So long that you have to ensure that the company is still around after 99 years. The present owners or management will not benefit from it.

The present owners benefit from current sale and future gen, if any, benefit from future sale. Jia buay leow.

Reporter
11-12-09, 12:20
The present owners benefit from current sale and future gen, if any, benefit from future sale. Jia buay leow.
But they are also bearing the risk during that 99 years.

If an act-of-god event (e.g. 2012, war, etc.) destroy the place during that 99 years, they will lost the land. If they have sold the complete lease away, that risk is passed to the buyers. That "extra" money is already in their pocket.

With that "extra" money in their pocket, they have the flexibility to stay in real estate business or move to another industry to survive.

I strongly feel that they are exposed during these 99 years.

greenhorn
11-12-09, 12:51
This is a case-in-point on the LH vs FH land debate. The value and desire for freehold / 999 land is an increasing asset going forward vis-a-vis land sales all being 99 LH. Even developers are hanging on to their precious FH land...using creative (desperate) means, albeit disgusting strategy of selling LH on FH land.

nochoice
11-12-09, 12:54
But they are also bearing the risk during that 99 years.

If an act-of-god event (e.g. 2012, war, etc.) destroy the place during that 99 years, they will lost the land. If they have sold the complete lease away, that risk is passed to the buyers. That "extra" money is already in their pocket.

With that "extra" money in their pocket, they have the flexibility to stay in real estate business or move to another industry to survive.

I strongly feel that they are exposed during these 99 years.

I think FEO do not want to jeopardize his own sale in Sliversea which is also 99LH. And if they are to sell it as FH, imgaine they will price it at $1.4k - $1.5k psf... the sale will be slower in this market.

Laguna
11-12-09, 13:00
FEO is going to make The Shore with sandy beach. Creative but without thinking of the practical problem in pool maintenance, how is the pool pump to be maintained and how to vacuum the pool...

I was told the small units are all sold

Reporter
11-12-09, 13:06
This is a case-in-point on the LH vs FH land debate. The value and desire for freehold / 999 land is an increasing asset going forward vis-a-vis land sales all being 99 LH. Even developers are hanging on to their precious FH land...using creative (desperate) means, albeit disgusting strategy of selling LH on FH land.
Perhaps you may be willing to take a bigger loan to buy that FH lease. However, not everyone is willing to pay more interest upfront.

Can we not discuss what we have discussed before?
Hope you are not trying to make us go in the same loop again.


I feel compelled to share my views on the LH/FH issue.

There are a lot of people who seems interested in events 40 years down the road when maybe a big part of us are gone.

The price difference between a FH and LH is about 15-16% theoritically and realistically.

When property prices move UP, this gap is narrowed. When property prices move DOWN, this gap is widened.

Imagine if I promise to pay you $100 in 50 years time and ask u for $20 now ? Would u entertain me ? The value attached to cash flows that is past 50 years from now is literally worth very little. And if you extend the same calculation, cashflows 100 years later is worth near nothing at the present value.

So buyers, dont be misled by some of the posts. If you see a FH selling for $1.2 million and a LH selling for $1,000,000 ... both same size same location. Go for the LH, its underpriced.

Dont overpay for FH.

PS : I do own LH and FH properties and I dont treat them too differently when it comes to buying or selling. If you use the concepts put forth by some people here, then u cannot sell FH properties lo ... because when u buy them now at $1 million, they are worth about $1 billion because they give you cashflows FOREVER and EVER.

Just my 2 cents worth of comments.

DKSG

You are being rational and analytical.

However, when freehold is concerned, many tie their emotion to it. It is the feeling. Owning FH property forever is more important than return on investment/capital.

I love FH properties too. However, one should not rule out that some LH properties can have a higher ROI. It really depends on the individual property pricing.

Analysing LH properties for ROI is simply an investment POV. I am sometimes willing to forgo the short term ROI and look at the long road. I would only consider LH if it has potential for very short term gain ie. flipping.

I am preparing to leave 2 FH properties for my 2 kids too.

However, I know very well that by doing so, I may or may not have the best ROI. (It really depends on the FH's premium over LH.) Perhaps there is a better way of passing wealth to them? (I am not sure.)

Maybe that 2 FH properties will never reach them due to enbloc?
Maybe they could have more wealth with a LH resale/enbloc?

That's why I don't argue on FH vs LH.
For investment, it's all about ROI.
For personal preference/emotion, what's there to argue?

for best return .. maybe a LH in a prime location

for best value and future value .. FH LANDED

thats my take

For leasehold commercial properties, the govt can and usually top up the lease for owners but the premium that one pays to top up the lease may not be as worthwhile as buying a freehold commercial property, but again depending on the business location. As for residential property, I hardly hear the government topping up leases unless the developer is taking over the land to develop a new project. Imagine you are 30 now and get a leasehold property for 2 generations to live, what would be the value of your property when you are 60 (30 years on) and want to pass on the property to your children? Some people talk about en bloc, but what if no developer is keen to enbloc the project as the land size etc is not favourable?

I am not judging your argument here. I just want to ask some questions.

Maybe that "extra" money you spent on the FH commercial property will allow you to have "bigger return" from a larger LH commercial property? Maybe with the "bigger return" accumulated for years, you will still make a "gain" after substracting the "top-up premium"?

I believe the same question is applicable to LH residential property.

The LH property will regain its value after the "top-up". So what's the drawback? The drawback is the non-linearity in LH's value. When a LH approaches its "0 lease", its value drops a lot. When it is topped up, its value shoots up again. You must play long term. So long that you can't see or smell it. So long that you may say "FH is easier."
..........
..........

Jazzer
11-12-09, 13:15
So long that you have to ensure that the company is still around after 99 years. The present owners or management will not benefit from it.

Resulting from this question, what if the company goes bust and go under receivership, won't the piece of land be affected as the company owns the land?

Miow
11-12-09, 13:40
Why has the URA approved it? I believe this is a precedent case?

sleek
11-12-09, 14:11
Why has the URA approved it? I believe this is a precedent case?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=8722

You sure can, I wrote to URA and this is the response:

We refer to your query on the subject matter which was directed to us by URA on 26 Nov 2009.
It is possible for owners of freehold land to, in a private arrangement, carve out a leasehold interest (e.g. 99 year tenure) for development purposes. The State only preside over the tenure of State lands sold via public tender for development purposes. For such State lands sales, the tenure granted is capped at a maximum of 99 years.

Reporter
11-12-09, 14:21
Resulting from this question, what if the company goes bust and go under receivership, won't the piece of land be affected as the company owns the land?
I don't think the land will be affected. The remaining lease will be passed to the creditor(s).

If the company is listed and if I am the sharesholder, I will question the management for not realising the full profit now. Why should the shareholder "pay" for the remaining lease now? How can the management predict the future which is 99 years away? How can shareholders benefit from something that is 99 years later?

If they are doing this to save Silversea, I think they are being very short-sighted. They could have just hold back the launch of The Shore.


But they are also bearing the risk during that 99 years.

If an act-of-god event (e.g. 2012, war, etc.) destroy the place during that 99 years, they will lost the land. If they have sold the complete lease away, that risk is passed to the buyers. That "extra" money is already in their pocket.

With that "extra" money in their pocket, they have the flexibility to stay in real estate business or move to another industry to survive.

I strongly feel that they are exposed during these 99 years.

Miow
11-12-09, 14:59
I don't think the land will be affected. The remaining lease will be passed to the creditor(s).

If the company is listed and if I am the sharesholder, I will question the management for not realising the full profit now. Why should the shareholder "pay" for the remaining lease now? How can the management predict the future which is 99 years away? How can shareholders benefit from something that is 99 years later?

If they are doing this to save Silversea, I think they are being very short-sighted. They could have just hold back the launch of The Shore.


I disagree with you. The company is creating value. The project is sold at the same price as that of a freehold property because of bullish sentiments, AND freehold ownership is retained in the company (effectively a bonus) to generate future earnings e.g. say the project gets en-bloc 30 years down the road and the company receives additional cash for the lease top-up. Do this for the company's various projects, you can imagine theoretically, the company's value could be greatly enhanced by the recurrent earings.

All the properties in Hong Kong are leasehold. Why should it be different for Singapore? Maybe that's the way to go for a city state in keeping cost down.

Reporter
11-12-09, 15:34
I disagree with you. The company is creating value. The project is sold at the same price as that of a freehold property because of bullish sentiments, AND freehold ownership is retained in the company (effectively a bonus) to generate future earnings e.g. say the project gets en-bloc 30 years down the road and the company receives additional cash for the lease top-up. Do this for the company's various projects, you can imagine theoretically, the company's value could be greatly enhanced by the recurrent earings.

All the properties in Hong Kong are leasehold. Why should it be different for Singapore? Maybe that's the way to go for a city state in keeping cost down.
Even in a bullish market, LH will never be sold at the same price as a FH. Otherwise, your statement of "keeping cost down with a LH" will not hold. There is a project in Thomson with both FH and LH units sold together some time back in a bullish environment. You may refer to their pricings.

DKSG
13-12-09, 10:16
Freehold The Sea View (old) currently doing about 1,400-1,500 psf.

LH The Shore, currently doing about 1,150-,1250 psf.

All launch units are more than 90% sold I heard.

Developer is inching the prices up now ... I also heard.

Anyone can verify ?

We do need some real information, rather than the 99-years latter argument.
This is nearly the same as saying that my grandson will certainly be smarter OR richer or ... blah blah than your grandson ... useless discussion.

Esp the bit on act of god ... Alamak ! U mean all the Metropolitan, The Sail, MBR, if there is an act of God, gahment take over all the land ??

Think my friends, THINK!

DKSG

proud owner
13-12-09, 12:36
Even in a bullish market, LH will never be sold at the same price as a FH. Otherwise, your statement of "keeping cost down with a LH" will not hold. There is a project in Thomson with both FH and LH units sold together some time back in a bullish environment. You may refer to their pricings.


another example ...
Varsity park (LH) and Stellar (FH) .. the resale price ..are almost the same .. in fact Varsity park is selling more expensive now .. maybe they have more units .. while Stellar has fewer and most are owner occupied ..

they are next to each other .. while many say Stellar being closer to the main road is less attractive

gfoo
13-12-09, 12:46
dey you dun make sense leh...

of course who dun want today's investments to make one's grandson richer than another's? it's far better than having one's grandson stranded without a home or muddled in huge admin/lawsuits after 103yrs

an act of god or in war everyone will be affected lah- people buy today based on rational normal conditions.

everyone already posted their views on this project, let the market decide whether worth it or not. for me i'd rather put my trust in the govt than FEO- its the lesser of two evils

nochoice
13-12-09, 16:45
Freehold The Sea View (old) currently doing about 1,400-1,500 psf.

LH The Shore, currently doing about 1,150-,1250 psf.

All launch units are more than 90% sold I heard.

Developer is inching the prices up now ... I also heard.

Anyone can verify ?


DKSG

Went to the site yesterday, FEO only launched 2 tower if Im not wrong, all 1 and 2 bedroom. Confirmed all studio units were sold... For two bedroom, roughly only about 20% of units launched were sold, (those pool facing and lower flr). The FEO agent told me that they will launched the remaining studio (another tower) on Jan next yr. Price will be slightly higher, but don't know how high? My feeling is for this development, only studio will be selling like hot cake (btw $620k-$720K+ price is not too ex) the two bedrm is priced on the high side, cheapest 872sf also cost more than 1 mil.

bargain hunter
13-12-09, 17:56
its on the fliers that they are distributing all over the place. 2 bedrooms, 872 sq ft start from 1.15m. ie more than 1300psf.




Went to the site yesterday, FEO only launched 2 tower if Im not wrong, all 1 and 2 bedroom. Confirmed all studio units were sold... For two bedroom, roughly only about 20% of units launched were sold, (those pool facing and lower flr). The FEO agent told me that they will launched the remaining studio (another tower) on Jan next yr. Price will be slightly higher, but don't know how high? My feeling is for this development, only studio will be selling like hot cake (btw $620k-$720K+ price is not too ex) the two bedrm is priced on the high side, cheapest 872sf also cost more than 1 mil.

gfoo
13-12-09, 18:32
1300psf to rent land from feo with no future guarantees, liddat buy marine parade flats from govt better - better view, got SERS, same quality/workmanship as feo. gold plate the walls of the HDB, toilets use onyx tiles and sapphire glass mirrors - still cheaper, with money to spare for a nice boxster

DKSG
13-12-09, 19:03
I am impressed with this "no future" theory.

You buy a 103 years land, and you get the 103 years !

After 25-30 years, if the resident enbloc, they can request FEO to continue to lease anothr 25-30 years! FEO will be doing nothing but collecting land lease value ...

I am not sure why people here only think of other people sabotaging your future generations ? If you are FEO, after 25-30 years, someone again off your 300 psf to extend the lease, what you do ? Say "nah, I am going to wait another 65-70 years so that I can sabotage the residents" ?? Is that what people here are thinking ?

If you are FEO, you take the money and go buy other FH land ! The rationale behind FEO's move is to own more and more FH land, not to create bad blood so that people boycott their products ...

Think my friends, THINK!
DKSG

PS : BTW, did someone say all studio are sold ? Launching the rest in Jan 2010 at $1,300 psf ? Gosh ... gotta go down and take a look what the lure of this ...

bargain hunter
13-12-09, 21:39
someone said studios all sold out, 2 bedrooms only 20% sold, only studios and 2 bedrooms were launched.

i don't get it. why would residents pay to top up the lease after 25 to 30 years?

we are not saying that FEO will wait so many years to sabotage its buyers. they are simply going to be the only one who will offer to en-bloc in the 25-30 years time at FEO's desired price.

Of course FEO doesn't want to create bad blood. that's where marketing comes in. :D



I am impressed with this "no future" theory.

You buy a 103 years land, and you get the 103 years !

After 25-30 years, if the resident enbloc, they can request FEO to continue to lease anothr 25-30 years! FEO will be doing nothing but collecting land lease value ...

I am not sure why people here only think of other people sabotaging your future generations ? If you are FEO, after 25-30 years, someone again off your 300 psf to extend the lease, what you do ? Say "nah, I am going to wait another 65-70 years so that I can sabotage the residents" ?? Is that what people here are thinking ?

If you are FEO, you take the money and go buy other FH land ! The rationale behind FEO's move is to own more and more FH land, not to create bad blood so that people boycott their products ...

Think my friends, THINK!
DKSG

PS : BTW, did someone say all studio are sold ? Launching the rest in Jan 2010 at $1,300 psf ? Gosh ... gotta go down and take a look what the lure of this ...

Property_Owner
13-12-09, 23:42
I am impressed with this "no future" theory.

You buy a 103 years land, and you get the 103 years !

After 25-30 years, if the resident enbloc, they can request FEO to continue to lease anothr 25-30 years! FEO will be doing nothing but collecting land lease value ...

I am not sure why people here only think of other people sabotaging your future generations ? If you are FEO, after 25-30 years, someone again off your 300 psf to extend the lease, what you do ? Say "nah, I am going to wait another 65-70 years so that I can sabotage the residents" ?? Is that what people here are thinking ?

If you are FEO, you take the money and go buy other FH land ! The rationale behind FEO's move is to own more and more FH land, not to create bad blood so that people boycott their products ...

Think my friends, THINK!
DKSG

PS : BTW, did someone say all studio are sold ? Launching the rest in Jan 2010 at $1,300 psf ? Gosh ... gotta go down and take a look what the lure of this ...

You work for Far East?

xebay11
14-12-09, 06:22
You work for Far East?

Think my friends, THINK!

blackfire
14-12-09, 08:20
Went to the site yesterday, FEO only launched 2 tower if Im not wrong, all 1 and 2 bedroom. Confirmed all studio units were sold... For two bedroom, roughly only about 20% of units launched were sold, (those pool facing and lower flr). The FEO agent told me that they will launched the remaining studio (another tower) on Jan next yr. Price will be slightly higher, but don't know how high? My feeling is for this development, only studio will be selling like hot cake (btw $620k-$720K+ price is not too ex) the two bedrm is priced on the high side, cheapest 872sf also cost more than 1 mil.

Anyone has the floorplans ?

finder
14-12-09, 11:27
Freehold The Sea View (old) currently doing about 1,400-1,500 psf.

LH The Shore, currently doing about 1,150-,1250 psf.

All launch units are more than 90% sold I heard.

Developer is inching the prices up now ... I also heard.

Anyone can verify ?

We do need some real information, rather than the 99-years latter argument.
This is nearly the same as saying that my grandson will certainly be smarter OR richer or ... blah blah than your grandson ... useless discussion.

Esp the bit on act of god ... Alamak ! U mean all the Metropolitan, The Sail, MBR, if there is an act of God, gahment take over all the land ??

Think my friends, THINK!

DKSG

ALL Launch units = how many units?

DKSG
14-12-09, 13:52
For the records, I do not work for Far East or is in anyway related to them.

DKSG

Cactus72
14-12-09, 14:57
My friend told me to avoid FEO condos. They are overpriced and their quality is.....hahaa............
Now they selling 99 yr on a freehold condo.
OMG.

Your friend is right. I will always avoid FEO projects. Never will feel good to buy from them as I heard too many horror stories too.

An example: See how they advertise those projects that had already completed long before, in the newspaper every now and then? Who do you think will be paying for the advertising fee ultimately? The moment you buy a unit from them, all these charges are already recovered from you.

I agree with those posts about buying 99LH too. I rather buy 99LH with govt as the owner of land rather than the private developer. 99LH with private developer as the owner of the land is the worse offer a buyer can get! :simmering:

Miow
14-12-09, 15:40
My friend visited the "showflat" last Saturday. The Shore Residences layout model is currently over at Silversea showflat and will be moved to its proper show flat, possibly by end of this week. I understand from my friend 60 of the 90 units launched were sold as of last Saturday. Most were the 1 and 2-bed apartments. Prices ranged between $1200-1300psf.

Regulators
14-12-09, 17:44
$1200 to 1300psf??? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

These days developers have no qualms about selling projects at $1200psf which used to be for locations that are more prime.:doh: :doh: :doh:


My friend visited the "showflat" last Saturday. The Shore Residences layout model is currently over at Silversea showflat and will be moved to its proper show flat, possibly by end of this week. I understand from my friend 60 of the 90 units launched were sold as of last Saturday. Most were the 1 and 2-bed apartments. Prices ranged between $1200-1300psf.

Property_Owner
14-12-09, 20:52
Serious bo? 1200 to 1300?
What ever it is, congrats to those brave hearts.
Only time will tell.

Squall8888
14-12-09, 21:01
Location isn't as ideal as OA or Esta. Seaview is a totally different class in East Coast so no need to include SV. But at 1200 psf for East Coast, I think is ok. Maybe can go up until 1300+ but that is the maximum I think. The price pressure from OA, Cote Azur make it unfeasible for this project to go up more than the rest of the condos. Somemore, location wise, TS is the worst.

nochoice
14-12-09, 21:08
Serious bo? 1200 to 1300?
What ever it is, congrats to those brave hearts.
Only time will tell.

I thinks these price is before discount and were high floor and good facing. e.g The FEO agent qouted me a 2nd storey one bedrm about $600k+, abt 1030 psf. A 2 bedrm 872sf #11 storey abt 1200 psf.

wqmai
14-12-09, 21:42
Location isn't as ideal as OA or Esta. Seaview is a totally different class in East Coast so no need to include SV. But at 1200 psf for East Coast, I think is ok. Maybe can go up until 1300+ but that is the maximum I think. The price pressure from OA, Cote Azur make it unfeasible for this project to go up more than the rest of the condos. Somemore, location wise, TS is the worst.

Just to side track a bit. How about MODA as compare to the shore. Although both are in diiferent class altogether, which would be a better buy if price is about the same?

Property_Owner
14-12-09, 21:47
Just to side track a bit. How about MODA as compare to the shore. Although both are in diiferent class altogether, which would be a better buy if price is about the same?


MODA?

Where is it?

wqmai
14-12-09, 21:57
MODA?

Where is it?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=8699

proud owner
14-12-09, 22:52
Serious bo? 1200 to 1300?
What ever it is, congrats to those brave hearts.
Only time will tell.


exactly ..

comon people .. 1300 psf can get FH at dist 11/21

even though the flooding recently ...tessarina and maplewoods still better ... still not more than 1300 psf

sealover
15-12-09, 10:55
No point guessing good investment or bad now, looking forward I believe with proximity to 2 IRs and airport, D15 will be highly sought after by sea loving foreigners.... particularly with many FEO properties around to support the price...

BTW, I think FEO should name Silver Sea as The Shore which is better fit...

bargain hunter
16-12-09, 15:50
It has been rumored that an Indonesian investor is intending to sell 20 units at One Amber for a total of SG $30 million. The units range from studio to 4 bedrooms units. Anyone can confirm this?

If its true, better buy OA from this seller than The shore.

Miow
16-12-09, 15:57
It has been rumored that an Indonesian investor is intending to sell 20 units at One Amber for a total of SG $30 million. The units range from studio to 4 bedrooms units. Anyone can confirm this?

If its true, better buy OA from this seller than The shore.

I think enbloc sale is in the papers. I saw a special ad in the main content of The Straits Times, not among the classifieds.

Miow
16-12-09, 15:59
I think enbloc sale is in the papers. I saw a special ad in the main content of The Straits Times, not among the classifieds.

I think DTZ is handling it.

Property_Owner
16-12-09, 17:05
It has been rumored that an Indonesian investor is intending to sell 20 units at One Amber for a total of SG $30 million. The units range from studio to 4 bedrooms units. Anyone can confirm this?

If its true, better buy OA from this seller than The shore.

I last hear abt 15 units. Now 20 units. Maybe true

eddiehu
21-12-09, 13:32
All 1 Bedrooms SOLD OUT

New Tower 1 Bedroom available for SALE

Call Eddie Hu for Booking @ 91881715

East Coast Boy
21-12-09, 14:25
I last hear abt 15 units. Now 20 units. Maybe true


FYI, The Indonesian investor own 80+ properties in Singapore. He brought most of the units at high price. His purchase price for OA is all above $1,200psf at 2007. :doh: :doh: :doh:

bargain hunter
21-12-09, 14:27
any idea how much he wants to sell? above his buy price or he is in fund raising mode and willing to take a slight loss?


FYI, The Indonesian investor own 80+ properties in Singapore. He brought most of the units at high price. His purchase price for OA is all above $1,200psf at 2007. :doh: :doh: :doh:

East Coast Boy
21-12-09, 17:11
Just got a email form A agent on The Shore!!!

GOOD NEWS!!! The Shore D15 - LAST Batch of 1 Bedroom and Long waiting 3 Bedroom are finally here!!! Get your Leads NOW!!!

Located in the Katong vicinity (5min walk from Silversea), The Shore Residences offers a classy lifestyle in tranquility, an oasis away from the city.

Comprising 1-4 bedroom units spread over 4 towers (408 units), residents will enjoy close proximity to East Coast Park as well as a host of amenities situated in the neighbourhood.

Tower D*- 1 Bedroom (Size: 592sf)

Open for booking*NOW - Up to Level 10
Launching on the 1st of Jan.
Last 44 units of 1bedrooms of the Shore.
Price starting from $658K.
Every Floor is $15psf increase.
*
Tower*B*-*3 Compact*Bedroom (Size: 1055 - 1076sf)
Open for booking*NOW* - Only Level 5 & 6 (Total : 8 units)
Launching on the 1st of Jan.
PSF: $1200 - $1300

*
AMENITIES
• East Coast Park
• Katong Shopping Centre
• Parkway Parade
• Tao Nan School
• Victoria School
• Victoria Junior College
• Tanjong Katong Secondary School
• Tanjong Katong Girls' School
• Dunman High School
• CHIJ Katong Primary School

Property_Owner
21-12-09, 18:03
FYI, The Indonesian investor own 80+ properties in Singapore. He brought most of the units at high price. His purchase price for OA is all above $1,200psf at 2007. :doh: :doh: :doh:

wow, almost double what I have.

Reporter
21-12-09, 18:09
wow, almost double what I have.
Wow, islander!
You have 40+ properties in mainland?

SV88
21-12-09, 20:54
Hi East Coast Boy, so the showflat is ready on 1 Jan 10? Thanks.

jlrx
21-12-09, 21:33
FYI, The Indonesian investor own 80+ properties in Singapore. He brought most of the units at high price. His purchase price for OA is all above $1,200psf at 2007. :doh: :doh: :doh:
wow, almost double what I have.

Wow!!! Property_Owner is a TYCOON!!!

All along I have only suspected he is an Ultra High Networth Individual (UHNI), but didn't know that he is a tycoon!!!

I am chit-chatting with a TYCOON!!!

:ashamed1:

xebay11
21-12-09, 21:59
Wow!!! Property_Owner is a TYCOON!!!

All along I have only suspected he is an Ultra High Networth Individual (UHNI), but didn't know that he is a tycoon!!!

I am chit-chatting with a TYCOON!!!

:ashamed1:

I am a TYPHOON too.

proud owner
21-12-09, 22:20
I am a TYPHOON too.


ahhah sorry

read too fast

for a moment thought you meant thyroid ....then everyone also have

jlrx
21-12-09, 22:29
I am a TYPHOON too.

Is TYPHOON the same as TYCOON? :confused:

condoinvestor
21-12-09, 22:54
Is TYPHOON wealthier TYCOON, or a wiped out TYCOON?

Property_Owner
22-12-09, 08:32
Wow!!! Property_Owner is a TYCOON!!!

All along I have only suspected he is an Ultra High Networth Individual (UHNI), but didn't know that he is a tycoon!!!

I am chit-chatting with a TYCOON!!!

:ashamed1:

My real idol is in e one staying in a run down apartment along East Coast Rd, next to the Land FEO owns. CNY I paid him a visit, asked why he choose to stay there where he has so many properties and 70% of them are vacant.
His answer? Feeling.....:doh:

jlrx
22-12-09, 15:35
My real idol is in e one staying in a run down apartment along East Coast Rd, next to the Land FEO owns. CNY I paid him a visit, asked why he choose to stay there where he has so many properties and 70% of them are vacant.
His answer? Feeling.....:doh:

Who is this guy? :confused:

Sounds like a sage on top of a mountain. Even Property_Owner has to pay him a visit.

http://thumb15.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/132760/132760,1224947898,2/stock-vector-vector-sage-on-mountain-top-ready-to-answer-questions-19450579.jpg

LEEporter
22-12-09, 15:54
richard branson?:confused:



Who is this guy? :confused:

Sounds like a sage on top of a mountain. Even Property_Owner has to pay him a visit.

http://thumb15.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/132760/132760,1224947898,2/stock-vector-vector-sage-on-mountain-top-ready-to-answer-questions-19450579.jpg

LEEporter
22-12-09, 15:55
I am a TYPHOON too.

i am a ty co tycoon... strike TOTO one lah...

ay123
22-12-09, 16:24
wow, almost double what I have.

wow.....how do u manage to build such a huge portfolio? care to impact some knowledge........do u start small?

Property_Owner
22-12-09, 17:09
wow.....how do u manage to build such a huge portfolio? care to impact some knowledge........do u start small?


big or small, a start is better then nothing.

Douk
22-12-09, 21:38
wow.....how do u manage to build such a huge portfolio? care to impact some knowledge........do u start small?

how to start small for a porfolio of 40 properties. whether is super high income or inheritance, this is beyond the word "small".

sealover
23-12-09, 10:54
Buy a few REITs/City Dev shares and you are co-owners of thousand over properties ;)

mcmlxxvi
23-12-09, 12:56
I also ty-coon. I do ty-chi and coon all day long...

Reporter
30-12-09, 09:38
http://www.sph.com.sg/images/logo_st.png
103-year lease on freehold land
Joyce Teo
The Straits Times
Wednesday, 30 December 2009

http://www.fareast.com.sg/FEOCorp.Upload/CMS/shorewebbanner.jpg

Flats at Far East Organization's new project are being sold with a 103-year lease even though the project in Katong sits on freehold land.

The rare step means Far East will have to settle for lower prices for the units, but it will retain an interest in the site and reap further benefits when the neighbourhood is further transformed.

Sales at the 408-unit The Shore Residences, which is opposite Katong Shopping Centre, start on Friday, New Year’s Day, but previews in recent weeks have already reaped contracts.

Far East’s executive director and chief operating officer of property sales, Mr Chia Boon Kuah, pointed out that the project sits on land with huge redevelopment potential.

‘The area has transformed and the pace of transformation is speeding up.’

An MRT station has been earmarked for nearby Marine Parade. There is also the Parkway Parade shopping centre, plenty of eating places in the area and the yet-to-be revamped Katong Mall.

Mr Chia also referred to the ‘bigger picture’ – Marina Bay, which will be only a 10-minute drive away.

While Far East cannot realise the full potential of the site now, by retaining the freehold title it will have the chance to participate eventually, he said.

Knight Frank chairman Tan Tiong Cheng told The Straits Times: ‘Far East is a privately owned firm, so this move does allow the family to hold on to the site for the benefit of their future generations.’

Selling a lease term instead of the entire freehold tenure is relatively rare, although Far East has done it before.

It launched two cluster housing projects – Cabana and The Greenwood – on freehold land with 103-year leases.

The 119-unit Cabana is in Sunrise Terrace, near Yio Chu Kang MRT station, while the 54-unit The Greenwood is in Greenwood Avenue.

The 99-year leasehold Spring Grove condo, which sits on the former Grange Road residence of the American ambassador, is a similar case.

The United States government bought the land in 1950 on a freehold lease but sold it on a 99-year lease to City Developments in 1991. The plot reverts to the US government at the end of this century.

Not many developers are keen on the strategy for the simple reason that 99 years is a long wait and they would not be around to enjoy the fruits of their efforts, say property experts.

Far East could charge more for The Shore if it were sold as a freehold project but it is giving that premium up in exchange for the reversionary interest in the land, experts say.

Another expert said: ‘There’ll be en-bloc sale potential if the market is good but the trump card is held by Far East, instead of the Government.’

Far East can either grant a lease top-up, buy back the land, sell the freehold tenure or not act.

‘When the owners want to do a collective sale in two or three decades’ time, they will have to refer to the holder of the freehold title, which is Far East,’ said Ngee Ann Polytechnic real estate lecturer Nicholas Mak.

‘A lot will then depend on the top-up premium that Far East will ask for.’

The project’s en-bloc potential is not an issue at the moment. Far East said it has sold ‘more than 70 units’ since it started previews about 2 weeks ago.

Most sales have been one-bedders from 592 to 732 sqft and priced from $658,000 or $1,100 psf.

Prices for two-bedders, which are on higher floors, start from $1.1 million or $1,180 psf. The project also has 3- and 4-bedroom units. Prices will rise about 2% at Friday’s launch.

Mr Chia said the demand for the 1- and 2-bedders may be due to a lack of smaller flats in the area, as well as the rejuvenation of the Katong neighbourhood.

Far East bought the former Rose Garden site, which is where The Shore is, in 2006 for $169.8 million, or $423 psf of potential gross floor area.

Reporter
30-12-09, 09:47
http://www.h88.com.sg/images/h88_masthead_logo.jpg
The Shore Residences - Get on the preview list here
H88
Tuesday, 29 Decemeber 2099, 12:28

http://www.h88.com.sg/images/content/2009-12-29/invitation_to_the_shore_residences.jpg

Ever wondered about those VIP folks who always get their hands on all the good units before you do, just because they are on some 'special list'? Well, now you can be part of that 'special list' just by whispering the secret password: "I am invited by H88.com.sg" when making an appointment.

We are not joking of course. One of our writers have apparently 'convinced' the developer of The Shore Residences that H88.com.sg readers deserve at least a few spots on that 'special list'.

Anyhow, if you tell them that "I am invited by H88.com.sg", you might get priority to preview The Shore Residences TWO full days before the public can (on 30th December, Wednesday, at the Silversea showroom).

We don't have to tell you that there are limited appointment slots and maybe some $658,000 1-bedroom units available ...


http://www.h88.com.sg/images/content/2009-12-29/theshorepreview_fb.jpg
Where: The Silversea showroom (call to make an appointment before going down)
When: Wednesday, 30th December 2009
Say: I am invited by H88.com.sg
Hotline: 6534-8000 (8.30am to 8.30pm)



Location of The Silversea
http://www.h88.com.sg/images/content/2009-12-29/theshorepreview_loc.jpg

Reporter
30-12-09, 20:54
http://sg.yimg.com/i/sg/providers/cnalogo4.gif
Far East Organization sees strong demand for The Shore Residences
Wong Siew Ying
Channel NewsAsia
Wednesday, 30 December 2009, 1554 hrs

http://www.fareast.com.sg/FEOCorp.Display/images/logo.jpg

Far East Organization said it has seen strong demand for its latest project, The Shore Residences, since private previews started two weeks ago.

The 408-unit residential development is located in the Katong area.

Far East said over 70 units have been sold and prospective buyers have also registered their interest for units, which will be released at the official launch on January 21.

Among them, the 1- and 2-bedroom units were most popular.

According to Far East, almost all of the 84 1-bedroom units, priced from S$658,000 each, have been sold out.

The two-bedroom units, which make up the majority of the development, are priced from S$1.1 million.

The Shore Residences is expected to be ready in 2015.

Laguna
01-01-10, 18:32
one bedders are all gone before noon
last unit at ground floor closed at $1090 psf or about $800,000

DKSG
01-01-10, 18:38
Did the 1 bedders hit $1,300 psf ?

Sea
01-01-10, 22:21
Latest update on sales:

3 bedroom released..

1st to 7th floor sold!

Just released higher floors

Sms at 90686016 for appt

and updating of units avil.

echotrain
01-01-10, 22:43
Latest update on sales:

3 bedroom released..

1st to 7th floor sold!

Just released higher floors

Sms at 90686016 for appt

and updating of units avil.

Whoa... market coming to life.

jlrx
02-01-10, 00:24
Among them, the 1- and 2-bedroom units were most popular.

According to Far East, almost all of the 84 1-bedroom units, priced from S$658,000 each, have been sold out.


one bedders are all gone before noon
last unit at ground floor closed at $1090 psf or about $800,000

See who has arrived? http://bedding.awestores.com/images/MickeyMouseBeddingButton.jpg

"There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo.

Developers who pay heed shall be amply rewarded.

Those who are stubborn, shall find their profits suboptimised.
http://www.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/mickey-mouse-heads.gif

schoz
03-01-10, 11:33
east facing. #11 flr, 1.07million at 873sqft...hmm...all stack 1 gone..:doh:

focus
03-01-10, 12:02
My real idol is in e one staying in a run down apartment along East Coast Rd, next to the Land FEO owns. CNY I paid him a visit, asked why he choose to stay there where he has so many properties and 70% of them are vacant.
His answer? Feeling.....:doh:
Hmm.. are you talking about the Katong Shopping Mall owner? with the wife and 3 kids ... and a maid whose fat like a pig..


So , what do you think of the property market for mid-tier to luxury for coming 2010? Is it a good time to buy?

focus
03-01-10, 12:05
Wow!!! Property_Owner is a TYCOON!!!

All along I have only suspected he is an Ultra High Networth Individual (UHNI), but didn't know that he is a tycoon!!!

I am chit-chatting with a TYCOON!!!

:ashamed1:
Eh.. i think he's the one who refers to CDL Kwek as his old friend..
there's another guy ...who refers to another property tycoon as his old friend..

So I think there's 2 tycoon or UHNW in this forum.

Dunno whether they will invite us over for CNY gathering or not. :)

gfoo
03-01-10, 12:24
east facing. #11 flr, 1.07million at 873sqft...hmm...all stack 1 gone..:doh:

stupid idiots

august
03-01-10, 15:49
stupid idiots

lol :)

Douk
03-01-10, 20:45
went to the showroom, the unit layout is good, rooms are spacious except living/dining room.

Quite expensive at close to 1300psf and above. but still selling fast. heard from agent, sold about 50%.

looks like property market is gaining pace again...

:2cents:

sabian
04-01-10, 00:25
heard from agent, sold about 50%.

looks like property market is gaining pace again...

:2cents:

50% of the 1st phase or the entire development?:doh:

Douk
04-01-10, 09:43
50% of the 1st phase or the entire development?:doh:

hmm, maybe 50% of 1st phase. from the chart, 3 of 4 towers released. and it seems quite a number of units are crossed out. dint pay much attention on those, only looking at 3 bedders which are on tower B only.

and frankly, many agents working in showroom are not so knowledgeable.

ay123
04-01-10, 10:49
hmm, maybe 50% of 1st phase. from the chart, 3 of 4 towers released. and it seems quite a number of units are crossed out. dint pay much attention on those, only looking at 3 bedders which are on tower B only.

and frankly, many agents working in showroom are not so knowledgeable.

any idea how much does a 3 bedroom cost?

sea lover
04-01-10, 11:29
and frankly, many agents working in showroom are not so knowledgeable.[/quote]

Agreed. The greatest joke I heard from the agent at the showroom was "FE intends to buy The Seaview in 10 years' time so as to link Sliver Sea and The Shore." :scared-5:

xebay11
04-01-10, 11:33
Agreed. The greatest joke I heard from the agent at the showroom was "FE intends to buy The Seaview in 10 years' time so as to link Sliver Sea and The Shore." :scared-5:

It always starts off as a joke.

Douk
04-01-10, 12:27
any idea how much does a 3 bedroom cost?

about 1.7mil.

ay123
04-01-10, 12:30
about 1.7mil.

Thanks.....with budget of 1.2mil. do u think can get a decent size n decent facing?

gfoo
04-01-10, 12:39
Thanks.....with budget of 1.2mil. do u think can get a decent size n decent facing?
up your budget to 1.3m, then go buy a nice freehold terrace at opera estate or upper east coast / eastwood area. another $150k or so will make the place look great.

why even consider paying FH prices for a 99yr from FEO? so that one and one's next generation can jaga the place for ng teng fong's descendants?

sheesh

Douk
04-01-10, 12:47
Thanks.....with budget of 1.2mil. do u think can get a decent size n decent facing?

for the shore, there are also 2 bedroom and 2+1, size are quite good, but i think is above 1.2 mil. (3 bedroom is around 1292 sq ft), so the 2 bedder and 2+1 should be around 1000-1100 sqft (i understand it is about the same layout as 3bedder but remove 1 common room).

The price is quite high for 99LH without much view.. nice project though.