View Full Version : Buy A HDB Flat?
i never knew that an existing pte owner can buy a resale hdb. any known pitfalls?
Is this thread started becoz of some recent articles? Read somewhere in the papers that one must change address to hdb ... Perhaps you might have read from hdb site:
Citizenship
You must:
<LI type=disc>be a Singapore Citizen (SC) or Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR).
include at least one listed occupier who is a SC or SPR.Age
You must be at least 21.
Family Nucleus
Income Ceiling
There is no income ceiling (unless applying for CPF Housing Grant and/or an HDB loan).
Ownership of Private Residential Property
You can own private property (unless applying for CPF Housing Grant) but must live in the HDB resale flat.
Ethnic Integration Policy
You can buy an HDB resale flat in any town/estate as long as the approved proportion of your ethnic group has not been reached.
Regulators
21-10-09, 18:44
There is always a loophole to this.
You can own private property (unless applying for CPF Housing Grant) but must live in the HDB resale flat.
new2mondrian
21-10-09, 19:30
i never knew that an existing pte owner can buy a resale hdb. any known pitfalls?
gfoo, u thinking of getting a resale HDB flat? :cheers4:
actually the greatest pitfall lies in the mindset shift for the whole family. Whether one can, after staying in a private property with all its exclusivity, landscaping, swimming pool/tennis courts, private carpark for the prized maserati/cayman or what not) can adapt to HDB dwelling. To comply with HDB rules, the owner must occupy the unit for at least a year before a resale transaction can even take place. To upgrade is immediate, to downgrade can be a painful process for some, especially for older children.
But of course, if the family can go through the mindset shift, then I don't foresee any other pitfalls. now that my flat's renovation is almost done, the HDB is in fact far more livable (in terms of space, layout and location) than my current private apt.
i never knew that an existing pte owner can buy a resale hdb. any known pitfalls?
If you are 35yrs old and single.. you can buy resale.. but must live in the resale HDB and rent out your Condo.
Better ask HDB about it. They have been very prompt in replying.
Got some go around the problem ..like what someone mentioned.. HDB address in IC... locked up the HDB masterbedroom and rent out the other rooms.. BUT BUT BUT.. DON'T GET CAUGHT
gfoo, u thinking of getting a resale HDB flat? :cheers4:
actually the greatest pitfall lies in the mindset shift for the whole family. Whether one can, after staying in a private property with all its exclusivity, landscaping, swimming pool/tennis courts, private carpark for the prized maserati/cayman or what not) can adapt to HDB dwelling. To comply with HDB rules, the owner must occupy the unit for at least a year before a resale transaction can even take place. To upgrade is immediate, to downgrade can be a painful process for some, especially for older children.
But of course, if the family can go through the mindset shift, then I don't foresee any other pitfalls. now that my flat's renovation is almost done, the HDB is in fact far more livable (in terms of space, layout and location) than my current private apt.
ya was thinking of getting a hdb resale while this window of opportunity is still open. i'm quite ok putting our nric addresses to the flat, but i doubt my family will opt to stay there - may attract too much attention in e carpark and there's no point ruffling social feathers.
i prob won't be renting out - maybe a small 3-4rm which i can convert into a jamming studio or some audiophile/cinema stuff. dunno yet
would love to get a flat at the southbank/citylights locality, if not hong lim/tg pgr. it would be an interesting medium-term Sers play
ya was thinking of getting a hdb resale while this window of opportunity is still open. i'm quite ok putting our nric addresses to the flat, but i doubt my family will opt to stay there - may attract too much attention in e carpark and there's no point ruffling social feathers.
i prob won't be renting out - maybe a small 3-4rm which i can convert into a jamming studio or some audiophile/cinema stuff. dunno yet
would love to get a flat at the southbank/citylights locality, if not hong lim/tg pgr. it would be an interesting medium-term Sers play
Wah lau!
Jam in HDB flat?
Please lah!
No matter how you sound-proof it, your neighbours will still hate you.
proud owner
21-10-09, 23:29
Wah lau!
Jam in HDB flat?
Please lah!
No matter how you sound-proof it, your neighbours will still hate you.
is there a restriction when you buy resale HDB in the open market ???
someone mentioned > 35 yr old etc etc ..thats for a SINGLE buyer ..
if a couple buys in the open market .. i believe theres no restriction ..
cab
is there a restriction when you buy resale HDB in the open market ???
someone mentioned > 35 yr old etc etc ..thats for a SINGLE buyer ..
if a couple buys in the open market .. i believe theres no restriction ..
cab
... no restriction ... just need to change address to the HDB resale flat (i.e. stay there) for at least 1 year (if planning to resell) to 3 years (if planning to rent out after that) ...
... restriction ... yes ... can only buy 1 unit ...
Personally, I will not compete with those who need these resale public flats more than I do, even if there is money to be make. ... but then I am not a very smart investor here, so don't follow me.
is there a restriction when you buy resale HDB in the open market ???
someone mentioned > 35 yr old etc etc ..thats for a SINGLE buyer ..
if a couple buys in the open market .. i believe theres no restriction ..
cab
No restriction for couple to apply new or resale.
For single only resale is available only. NO NO for New HDB Single scheme.
I also tot of those Sers,of 30-40yrs old.:D
Few more yrs of wait..:D
proud owner
21-10-09, 23:53
No restriction for couple to apply new or resale.
For single only resale is available only. NO NO for New HDB Single scheme.
I also tot of those Sers,of 30-40yrs old.:D
Few more yrs of wait..:D
seriously after having stayed in condos and landed .. i really dont mind a unit in the old Point Block ..which they dont build anymore ..
so its 4 units to a blk .. each occupying a corner .. which i think it good ..
nah i aint buying a hdb to make money, bit coz it's my given right as a citizen. still dunno what i'll use it for now tho. like proudown, i like point blocks - it's far safer esp with all those reports in the papers of breakins esp for those corridor types.
maybe those hdb landed? hmmmm
seriously after having stayed in condos and landed .. i really dont mind a unit in the old Point Block ..which they dont build anymore ..
so its 4 units to a blk .. each occupying a corner .. which i think it good ..
True, I have lived in HDB, condos and landed.
I think HDBs are actually very livable, unlike in the past, condos quality of life was very good as price also cheap and quite spacious, at $610k for three bedder it was nearly HDB price, so condo living made sense and very desirable but nowadays all mass market condos are soooooo cramped and expensive, many near all the rubbish areas like junctions, expressways and drains (river) so why bother with them?
Get a good HDB, near town and enjoy much better quality of life. Landed OTH is good as a solid investment.
new2mondrian
22-10-09, 10:30
ya was thinking of getting a hdb resale while this window of opportunity is still open. i'm quite ok putting our nric addresses to the flat, but i doubt my family will opt to stay there - may attract too much attention in e carpark and there's no point ruffling social feathers.
i prob won't be renting out - maybe a small 3-4rm which i can convert into a jamming studio or some audiophile/cinema stuff. dunno yet
would love to get a flat at the southbank/citylights locality, if not hong lim/tg pgr. it would be an interesting medium-term Sers play
getting a hdb resale may be a good choice. actually to be honest, u just have to take a drive down to SengKang/Punggol HDB. U find all sorts of cars in the carparks - Lexus SUV, BMWs, Merc... u name it, u have it. Actually I do know of someone who stays at Bt Panjang HDB who drives a Maserati. But his Maserati comes with 24-hr video cam recording to catch vandals. So far (after 2yrs), so good. Well... no social feathers ruffled.
Jamming studio???!!! You've got to be kidding... HDB has LOW ceilings. After sound-proofing ALL the walls and ceilings (which will set u back by at least $50K, only hobbits can live and move in there).... :tsk-tsk:
There is a point block near Soleil area (Bendeemer Court i think) which looks good. Better still, those HDB 2-storey (160sqm) Maisonettes along the Kallang River near Potong Pasir look even better. Breezy (due to no blockage - opp is St Andrews school) and there's privacy (since they are lining the Kallang waterway), and there's a 5km park connector running in front of them for u to jog on wkends.
Regulators
22-10-09, 11:35
i can recommend 3 pt blocks with only 5rm flats in Dover Close East (b12, 13 and 14). Very near fusionpolis, NUS and Insead and area is considered high end hdb living for ang moh expats. Only 4 units on each floor and high floors have seaview. Prices range from 620k to 700k.
A few good locations with such old style pt blocks. Besides Dover, you can also find some near Tiong Bahru, before hitting Great World City. Think Ghim Moh side also got some, etc. etc.
Regulators
22-10-09, 12:09
Dover Close east only 3 point blocks standing with other hdb flats a distance away, very exclusive. landscaping also fantastic. you know what is the best part? that plot has en bloc potential coz One Rochester is just beside it and developers would be dying to buy over that plot of land from the govt at a premium.
A few good locations with such old style pt blocks. Besides Dover, you can also find some near Tiong Bahru, before hitting Great World City. Think Ghim Moh side also got some, etc. etc.
new2mondrian
22-10-09, 14:30
wah... u guys really good! :)
huccome i didn't consult u guys when i bought my flat???!!! :doh:
thx guys, u guys are boomz!
yeah i like pt blocks too. but 700k for a flat is just crazy. how do the massez afford thia?
Buy HDB for $700k and you can sleep in it until you got called back to heaven. Doubt anybody will easily part with $700k to take over from existing owner for an old HDB that is fast depreciating in value. :beats-me-man:
Really, think about it - those who can afford $700k probably prefer a condo; those who can't will go for cheaper HDB flat. Not sure about the mentality of such buyers but most will end up regretting about the purchase?
can HDB be passed to next generation? what if children have HDB already?
Regulators
22-10-09, 18:46
you are quite right, very difficult to sell next time. most people staying in these point blocks bought at a low or are first or second owners. the 3 pt blocks i mentioned are coming to 30 years and has probably reached its peak pricing. when they come to a certain age and harder for people to get longer loan period, then the price would probably be adjusted downwards. executive flats in meiling street are already averaging at between $700k and $780k and there are still takers. i for one would not pay this kind of money for public housing but for some loaded individuals who are half a foot in the grave, they may not mind at all.....
Buy HDB for $700k and you can sleep in it until you got called back to heaven. Doubt anybody will easily part with $700k to take over from existing owner for an old HDB that is fast depreciating in value. :beats-me-man:
Really, think about it - those who can afford $700k probably prefer a condo; those who can't will go for cheaper HDB flat. Not sure about the mentality of such buyers but most will end up regretting about the purchase?
I remembered last time in chua chu kang got this hdb penthouse featuring double volume living room. Same for some bto flats in punggol.
Also some older hdb flats top floor all got very high ceiling. :)
I also saw some top floor hdb flats in pasir ris having private roof terrace.
new2mondrian
23-10-09, 09:22
actually for HDB flats, i have serious issues on buying units that are more than 30 years. Firstly, bank financing is limited for units more than 30 years. hence resale is even more difficult. Secondly, the condition of flats above 30 years is often dismal (cracks in walls, water seepage and ceiling problems are common). Not to mention the sad state of water pipes and corridors. To renovate a place nicely (eg through extensive use of false ceiling to conceal aircon piping and electrical trunking, wallpapering the walls etc) require the walls and ceiling to be in good condition. Otherwise, it is definitely a recurring problem.
there are still lots of HDB flats around SGP that are less than 15 years, and well located. In fact if one doesn't mind SengKang, Bt Panjang and Punggol, the newer (ie 6years and below) flats there all come with higher ceilings, CONCEALED electical wiring (ie the wiring is encased in concrete) and water piping (for premium flats) such that it is really condo style minus the bay windows and planters and large balconies at HDB pricing.
As for leaving properties to the next generation, I have never believed in that. I would gladly invest $1M or more in educating my child and equipping him with the right skill sets (hopefully) to adapt to an ever-changing landscape, but not leave a cent nor a single property to him... too much money to the next generation be more often be a bane than a blessing. My two :2cents:
As for leaving properties to the next generation, I have never believed in that. I would gladly invest $1M or more in educating my child and equipping him with the right skill sets (hopefully) to adapt to an ever-changing landscape, but not leave a cent nor a single property to him... too much money to the next generation be more often be a bane than a blessing. My two :2cents:
Sounds good and idealistic, but not realistic in today's world, as property prices are rising way faster than wages, unless you migrate.
My take is to do both and not just concentrate on one, ie. leaving property for my children as well as developing their skills. If you bring up your children well, they can focus on multiplying your properties and building wealth rather than having no foothold and early advantage and struggling in the rat race only just to eke out a living.
That is why my planning for my future generation is putting them into elite schools, leaving property for them and also creating an avenue for them to migrate if things get too hot here.....the rest is up to them.
Regulators
23-10-09, 12:14
there are some 30yr old flats and hdb blocks that are very well maintained. a good example are the 3 blocks sitting on a tall hill in commonwealth close blk 81, 82 and 83 and just a few minutes walking distance to commonwealth mrt. this 3 blocks have huge potential for enbloc (only 3 precious blocks sitting on the hill) and do you know what is the best part, they are all 3 room flats which offer million dollar panoramic view of orchard road belt even from the 1st floor (coz it is on the hill). The views offered in this 3 blocks will put all the condos in holland to shame and these 3 room flats have been upgraded with extra utility room and cost merely 2xxk. the landscaping is also extremely beautiful. Take a nice drive up this weekend and you know what i am talking about...
actually for HDB flats, i have serious issues on buying units that are more than 30 years. Firstly, bank financing is limited for units more than 30 years. hence resale is even more difficult. Secondly, the condition of flats above 30 years is often dismal (cracks in walls, water seepage and ceiling problems are common). Not to mention the sad state of water pipes and corridors. To renovate a place nicely (eg through extensive use of false ceiling to conceal aircon piping and electrical trunking, wallpapering the walls etc) require the walls and ceiling to be in good condition. Otherwise, it is definitely a recurring problem.
there are still lots of HDB flats around SGP that are less than 15 years, and well located. In fact if one doesn't mind SengKang, Bt Panjang and Punggol, the newer (ie 6years and below) flats there all come with higher ceilings, CONCEALED electical wiring (ie the wiring is encased in concrete) and water piping (for premium flats) such that it is really condo style minus the bay windows and planters and large balconies at HDB pricing.
As for leaving properties to the next generation, I have never believed in that. I would gladly invest $1M or more in educating my child and equipping him with the right skill sets (hopefully) to adapt to an ever-changing landscape, but not leave a cent nor a single property to him... too much money to the next generation be more often be a bane than a blessing. My two :2cents:
new2mondrian
23-10-09, 13:27
Xebay11: I understand what u mean..... but i still like to be idealistic sometimes and see how things go along the way. :)
Way back in the 1980s and all the way to late 1990s, there was so much talk about how the Gen X (myself included) and Gen Y folks born in mid 1970s to 1980s will be priced out of the market. Nothing drives prices up faster than fear and herd instint and many people bought properties then were steeped in this belief. :scared-3: my parents and my in laws do not belong to the same school of thought, and gave us practically nothing in return except for a $5k angpow during our wedding. But we managed to earn and save and invest enough to comfortably afford 3 properties. I still would like to subscribe to the same school of thought, though yes, I concur with many forumers' sentiment that things are always easier said than done.
Regulators: You are really good with the local housing market! esp HDB flats! kowtow....
Xebay11: I understand what u mean..... but i still like to be idealistic sometimes and see how things go along the way. :)
Way back in the 1980s and all the way to late 1990s, there was so much talk about how the Gen X (myself included) and Gen Y folks born in mid 1970s to 1980s will be priced out of the market. Nothing drives prices up faster than fear and herd instint and many people bought properties then were steeped in this belief. :scared-3: my parents and my in laws do not belong to the same school of thought, and gave us practically nothing in return except for a $5k angpow during our wedding. But we managed to earn and save and invest enough to comfortably afford 3 properties. I still would like to subscribe to the same school of thought, though yes, I concur with many forumers' sentiment that things are always easier said than done.
Yes you may have three properties but I wonder if they are fully paid up and how long you would take to pay them up. Compared to my parent's time, they have bought and sold many properties in their lifetime and my father told me that he never took more than 5 years to fully pay up his properties and he never stops shaking his head that I have actually paid a million dollars for my latest property and still need to store things at his house :D, so times have changed.....somewhat.
Anyway I am sure you know what is best for your child.
Speaking of HDB resale flats, does the 30 year financing limitation apply like what new2mondrian said in ealier post?
My kids?.. I would want them to get just the degree.
then go and work for a living..
and at the same time.. bring them along to see properties ..
share with them investment views and tactics..
and seed them with some money (exmaple, $50k from him ,$50k from me) to start investing.
I find a lot of people are risk averse and they never prosper because they dare not make the first move (whether in properties or equities) and end up buying endowment or low returns products all their life.. just because it is capital guaranteed.
2 mnth back got a 530k, 31yr pt blk 5 rm resale @ #23. Reno pro will takes 70k-90k. Have been staying in condo for past 3 yrs, seldom use facilities, paying $332/mnth not worth. Property tax is quite substaintial for holding 2 proty, @4% & 10%...
New2mondrain, I agreed with Xebay11. Wondering HOW MUCH you PAID for yr PROPERTY TAX! for these 3 units. 3 yrs back, I held a hdb 5rm and a 3 beder condo concurrently. During which, 5rm has been fully paid and rented out for $1400/mnth, I paid $1.7k/mnth for condo insta. Anual valuation for condo = $15,000, x 0.04 = $600, mnthly=$50! so on so for. Gov is rich for people contributing toward stamp fee.
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/common/mast_home.gif
Are investors pushing up prices of resale flats?
The Straits Times
Monday, 19 October 2009
http://business.asiaone.com/A1MEDIA/business/10Oct09/images/20091017.180230_flat.jpg
With the relaxation of Housing Board restrictions over the years, it has become easier for a savvy Singaporean to make a relatively quick buck from buying a flat.
Since 2007, an owner need live in his flat for only three years before he can rent it out, if the flat was bought without a housing grant or subsidy.
For someone who enjoyed a subsidy or a grant, it is five years.
It is therefore no surprise to hear of people with investment acumen snapping up flats even if they already own private property, with an eye on the potential rent they can earn.
It is no small sum. Three-room flats in Toa Payoh fetched a median rent of $1,500 a month in the April to June period.
Rising resale prices could also mean that some buyers are taking a bet of another sort - rushing for flats in prime locations in the hope of getting a windfall when they sell them after the minimum occupation period.
Disgruntled house-hunters have asked if private property owners should be allowed to buy resale flats at all, given that the resale market is where first-time home-seekers head to if they cannot wait out the three years needed for the HDB to build subsidised flats.
But just how much of an impact do these investment-driven buyers have on the market?
When Insight asked the HDB what the proportion of private property owners among flat buyers was, it replied that 'exact figures are not readily available', but that the proportion was 'low'.
Meanwhile, there are no ready statistics on the number of flat buyers who sell off their properties immediately after the mandated period.
The HDB carries out periodic inspections to ensure flats are occupied, but policing is admittedly difficult. About 23,000 flats are now rented out legally. The number of recalcitrant owners who rented their flats illegally has dropped over the past three years, from 62 in 2007 to 17 from January to August this year.
As for flat owners who do not occupy their flats, the HDB has taken action against only one household since 2007. The board is in the process of acquiring it from the offending owners.
Property agency chiefs do not think investors hold much sway over the HDB resale market.
A private property owner who buys a resale flat would have to change his home address to that of the flat for at least three years. PropNex's chief executive Mohamed Ismail doubts most private property owners want that hassle.
In fact, given the climb in resale prices, investors are probably staying away, says ERA Asia-Pacific's associate director Eugene Lim.
He tells Insight: 'Buying at higher prices means lowering the rate of rental return. Most savvy investors will want to buy low and rent high to maximise returns.'
Economist Liu Yunhua from Nanyang Technological University feels that home-seekers should not begrudge the small minority of private property owners who buy resale flats for investment. After all, they are not entitled to the housing subsidies afforded to the majority of Singaporeans.
He says: 'As long as they do not get direct help from the Government, let them use their own method to get a share of land wealth. Their impact is very limited anyway, as they can buy only one flat each.'
Given the paucity of statistics, it is hard to say whether investors are driving up the prices of resale flats. Perhaps it is time for the HDB to start tracking home ownership patterns on this front.
Speaking of HDB resale flats, does the 30 year financing limitation apply like what new2mondrian said in ealier post?
New is wrong, I have secured a 90% loan from UOB for a 31year old 5 rm flat in Aug 09.
new2mondrian
23-10-09, 23:34
Speaking of HDB resale flats, does the 30 year financing limitation apply like what new2mondrian said in ealier post?
apologies. i wasn't clear in posting that comment. basically it is not a financing limitation for flats that are above 30 years; but rather when one buys a 30 plus years old HDB flat, the flat's remaining lease term would be close to 60years and below upon resale. With there being 60years of lease (or less) left, CPF ruling on the quantum of CPF funds which can be utilised for the flat kicks in. Which means any buyer of your resale unit better be cash rich enough to fund the unit in cash when the CPF limit is reached. This may be problematic when trying to resell the flat later.
http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/hybrid/Themes/CPF/related.asp?MesId=4970041&FolderID=0&Selected=7&CSRId=&SourceId=0
http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/Home/Hybrid/themes/CPF/Images/selected.gifhttp://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/hybrid/Themes/images/print.gif (javascript:window.print()) Q:How much can I withdraw from my CPF to buy a property with remaining lease of at least 60 years? A:
You can use your Ordinary Account savings, and the future monthly CPF contributions in this account to buy the property and/ or to pay the monthly instalments of the housing loan up to 100% of the Valuation Limit (VL). The VL is the lower of the purchase price or the value of the property at the time of purchase.
If your housing loan is still outstanding when the total CPF usage for the property reaches 100% VL and you are below the age of 55, you may continue to use your CPF Ordinary Account savings to repay the housing loan up to the applicable Withdrawal Limit if you can set aside half of the prevailing Minimum Sum (http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/reach-55/Reach55-2.htm). Savings in the Special Account (including the amount used for investments) and Ordinary Account can be used to meet this required amount. Please click here (http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/Home/Hybrid/themes/CPF/Uploads/Housing/RPS_Eg_on_WL.pdf) for more details.
However if you are 55 years and above when the VL is reached, you may use the excess CPF Ordinary Account savings to repay the housing loan after setting aside half of the Minimum Sum that is applicable to you.For more information on Minimum Sum, click here (http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/reach-55/Reach55-2.htm).
new2mondrian
23-10-09, 23:42
New2mondrain, I agreed with Xebay11. Wondering HOW MUCH you PAID for yr PROPERTY TAX! for these 3 units. 3 yrs back, I held a hdb 5rm and a 3 beder condo concurrently. During which, 5rm has been fully paid and rented out for $1400/mnth, I paid $1.7k/mnth for condo insta. Anual valuation for condo = $15,000, x 0.04 = $600, mnthly=$50! so on so for. Gov is rich for people contributing toward stamp fee.
actually the best way to ensure a capital guaranteed model is to find lots of milo tins and tie the dollar notes into wads and place them inside, and hide those milo tins under the bed. no sub-prime crisis, no counter-party risk, no stock price fluctuation.... but do watch out for termites... :hell-hath-no-fury:
as long as one has substantial reserves to pay up most of the amount loaned and is comfortably leveraged, it is an each-to-his-own model. at the end of the day, investment is a choice, leveraging is a choice, and diversification of portfolio is a choice. Some love it in equities, some love it in properties, some love it in insurance, some love it in gold bars, some love it in milo tins. that's how the economy keeps humming. ;)
i read with interest that some of the bros here would rather - given a choice - bring up a family in a HDB than private. this is an interesting dynamic for me as i was never brought up in one, and my personal experience stems from my first marital property which was sold after 3 years. i've also stayed at senggang for a couple of weeks while transitioning renovations. here are my observations, and i am using straits times terminology so as not to be seditious.
there exists a very apparent social divide. at the upper flrs of the carpark you find beemers, mbs, porsches and maseratis; while the lower floors carry the cherries and kias of which a good many are weekend plates. a good many of these had tanned owners. every quarter there would always be an instance in the upper decks - cashcard/laptop/hp
every couple of months there will be at least one instance of theft/breakins at flats - some reported and ST, most are not
in the late wkend evenings, the compound is chock full of miscreants playing loud music, and playgrounds are littered w syringes. again, mostly the tanner variety.
in the afternoons, unites colors of ahbengs and ahlians at the void deck playing truant, some drinking and most smoking.
in the 2 weeks at senggang, a wrx had his mod parts stripped, and there were 2 fights at the nearby kopitiam
the above were strong reasons i gave up on hdb - it's no longer safe for kids today imho.
Thanks for sharing. Heard of something similar from friends living in HDBs before but I just wondered whether what my friends said were just one-off coincidence or it is really common nowsdays. While the country has progressed in terms of GDP headlines, is the social quality and youngs' characters actually degenerating in the HDB neighbourhood? :scared-2:
i read with interest that some of the bros here would rather - given a choice - bring up a family in a HDB than private. this is an interesting dynamic for me as i was never brought up in one, and my personal experience stems from my first marital property which was sold after 3 years. i've also stayed at senggang for a couple of weeks while transitioning renovations. here are my observations, and i am using straits times terminology so as not to be seditious.
there exists a very apparent social divide. at the upper flrs of the carpark you find beemers, mbs, porsches and maseratis; while the lower floors carry the cherries and kias of which a good many are weekend plates. a good many of these had tanned owners. every quarter there would always be an instance in the upper decks - cashcard/laptop/hp
every couple of months there will be at least one instance of theft/breakins at flats - some reported and ST, most are not
in the late wkend evenings, the compound is chock full of miscreants playing loud music, and playgrounds are littered w syringes. again, mostly the tanner variety.
in the afternoons, unites colors of ahbengs and ahlians at the void deck playing truant, some drinking and most smoking.
in the 2 weeks at senggang, a wrx had his mod parts stripped, and there were 2 fights at the nearby kopitiam
the above were strong reasons i gave up on hdb - it's no longer safe for kids today imho.
there exists a very apparent social divide. at the upper flrs of the carpark you find beemers, mbs, porsches and maseratis; while the lower floors carry the cherries and kias of which a good many are weekend plates. a good many of these had tanned owners. every quarter there would always be an instance in the upper decks - cashcard/laptop/hp
now that u mention, in the condo i stay at, the cars at the underground carpark seems to have a "social divide" too - the continental cars all seem to congregate at one area aka CCR, while the rest of the jap korean made car at RCR hahaha :o
now that u mention, in the condo i stay at, the cars at the underground carpark seems to have a "social divide" too - the continental cars all seem to congregate at one area aka CCR, while the rest of the jap korean made car at RCR hahaha :o
lol. jap and even hyundais are ok - many hidden millionaires drive em. but to trust family safety to milk tins like cherries and pimentos .... i've seen enough NS highway accident photos being emailed around that taking such risks ain't worth it. any of you who have groomwerkz package, when u sens your car in fr grooming indent one cherry qq from yong and drive - you'll see what i mean. the problem us that such milk tin owners want their car to be 'evoz' so bad that they lup on loud exhos, loud stickers, and bling bling flickering lights - that they start driving on the roads like they are evos. damn dangerous
apologies. i wasn't clear in posting that comment. basically it is not a financing limitation for flats that are above 30 years; but rather when one buys a 30 plus years old HDB flat, the flat's remaining lease term would be close to 60years and below upon resale. With there being 60years of lease (or less) left, CPF ruling on the quantum of CPF funds which can be utilised for the flat kicks in. Which means any buyer of your resale unit better be cash rich enough to fund the unit in cash when the CPF limit is reached. This may be problematic when trying to resell the flat later.
http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/hybrid/Themes/CPF/related.asp?MesId=4970041&FolderID=0&Selected=7&CSRId=&SourceId=0
http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/Home/Hybrid/themes/CPF/Images/selected.gifhttp://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/hybrid/Themes/images/print.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:window.print()) Q:How much can I withdraw from my CPF to buy a property with remaining lease of at least 60 years? A:
You can use your Ordinary Account savings, and the future monthly CPF contributions in this account to buy the property and/ or to pay the monthly instalments of the housing loan up to 100% of the Valuation Limit (VL). The VL is the lower of the purchase price or the value of the property at the time of purchase.
If your housing loan is still outstanding when the total CPF usage for the property reaches 100% VL and you are below the age of 55, you may continue to use your CPF Ordinary Account savings to repay the housing loan up to the applicable Withdrawal Limit if you can set aside half of the prevailing Minimum Sum (http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/reach-55/Reach55-2.htm). Savings in the Special Account (including the amount used for investments) and Ordinary Account can be used to meet this required amount. Please click here (http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/Home/Hybrid/themes/CPF/Uploads/Housing/RPS_Eg_on_WL.pdf) for more details.
However if you are 55 years and above when the VL is reached, you may use the excess CPF Ordinary Account savings to repay the housing loan after setting aside half of the Minimum Sum that is applicable to you.For more information on Minimum Sum, click here (http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/reach-55/Reach55-2.htm).
Thanks that is exactly the info I was looking for. As I went to view many old 3 rm HDBs for investment, looks like not good idea.
lol. jap and even hyundais are ok - many hidden millionaires drive em. but to trust family safety to milk tins like cherries and pimentos .... i've seen enough NS highway accident photos being emailed around that taking such risks ain't worth it. any of you who have groomwerkz package, when u sens your car in fr grooming indent one cherry qq from yong and drive - you'll see what i mean. the problem us that such milk tin owners want their car to be 'evoz' so bad that they lup on loud exhos, loud stickers, and bling bling flickering lights - that they start driving on the roads like they are evos. damn dangerous
YES! ABSOLUTELY HATE THE SOUND FROM MOD CARS AND BIKES!
Especially in the middle of the night.
Sometimes I wished I could throw water bombs at them from my flat and hopefully crash a few of them.. but then ... it's illegal... sobsob
YES! ABSOLUTELY HATE THE SOUND FROM MOD CARS AND BIKES!
Especially in the middle of the night.
Sometimes I wished I could throw water bombs at them from my flat and hopefully crash a few of them.. but then ... it's illegal... sobsob
Condos also have pros and cons, if you face the pool there are hundreds of screaming kids on the weekends. So far I find non-pool facing condo or landed property best for peace and serenity.
YES! ABSOLUTELY HATE THE SOUND FROM MOD CARS AND BIKES!
Especially in the middle of the night.
Sometimes I wished I could throw water bombs at them from my flat and hopefully crash a few of them.. but then ... it's illegal... sobsob
Mod cars and bikes are in private estates too, and they are much noiser!! Think harley davidsons and lambo and ferrari with Larnis or Tubis!!
Mod cars and bikes are in private estates too, and they are much noiser!! Think harley davidsons and lambo and ferrari with Larnis or Tubis!!
Uh... I thought harleys and lambos and ferraris are all loud by birthright.. no need mod already damn loud?
Sorry, dont know much about cars, i not into cars.
But yes! Please turn down the volume when you are driving loud cars! Don't revv the engine so hard!
Condos also have pros and cons, if you face the pool there are hundreds of screaming kids on the weekends. So far I find non-pool facing condo or landed property best for peace and serenity.
Yes, if got views, then buy non-pool facing. If no views, then better get pool facing. At least got eye-candies.. i rather face the pool than face a block of bricks across the road :p
Uh... I thought harleys and lambos and ferraris are all loud by birthright.. no need mod already damn loud?
Sorry, dont know much about cars, i not into cars.
But yes! Please turn down the volume when you are driving loud cars! Don't revv the engine so hard!
My neighbor drives a M3 and you can hear him before you even see his car... And there are a couple of Porsche and one Nissan GTR in the same development as well.... and for sure they are much louder than a bunch of vios/ suzuki swift with operated exhaust pipes...
Dunno all these can pass LTA or not?
Mod cars and bikes are in private estates too, and they are much noiser!! Think harley davidsons and lambo and ferrari with Larnis or Tubis!!
My neighbour has a few Ferraris and Maserati, quite loud when he backs into the drive way, but other then that no revving.
My neighbour has a few Ferraris and Maserati, quite loud when he backs into the drive way, but other then that no revving.
Wa... your neighbour has a few Ferraris and Maserati...
and to be his neighbour..also buay kan tan (not easy)..hor...
U live in D10 GCB one ah?
My neighbour has a few Ferraris and Maserati, quite loud when he backs into the drive way, but other then that no revving.Wa... your neighbour has a few Ferraris and Maserati...
and to be his neighbour..also buay kan tan (not easy)..hor...
U live in D10 GCB one ah?
Since xebay11's neighbour has a few Ferraris and Maseratis, xebay11 himself may have a few Porsches and Lamborghinis.
Hence he cannot complain about the neighbour, otherwise the neighbour will complain about him. :tsk-tsk:
Must be mutually tolerant. :spliff2: :spliff:
stock sounds from high capacity engines like ferraris etc have a low bassy gurgle, and doesnt sound too bad
kuitao and exhoz mods for low capacity engines like 1.2l, 1.6l etc create drone and are loud screamers. those are the irritating POSs you hear late at night
in the States, these poseurs are named 'ricers'. in malaysia, 'rempits'
in Singapore, can call them 'armpits'.
Personally i just call them CBs
As for leaving properties to the next generation, I have never believed in that. I would gladly invest $1M or more in educating my child and equipping him with the right skill sets (hopefully) to adapt to an ever-changing landscape, but not leave a cent nor a single property to him... too much money to the next generation be more often be a bane than a blessing. My two :2cents:
Interesting. A famous person once said you should give your children enough so they could do anything but not enough such that they do not have to work.
Life's skill is a must. However, properties, if we have, we have to give these away because where you are going you are not going to need it;)
New2mondrian's view is not wrong and should be respected, it's just at another societal facet - one shouldn't generalize that all old money is bad influence.
A good education, upbringing and passing-on of guanxi are givens. Old money should never be rebuked or taught as a wrong thing. Rather it's what the descendants do to multiply it for future generations to multiply that counts.
Wasted fortunes and the idle rich is a condition of a failed and neglected upbringing in the first place.
New2mondrian's view is not wrong and should be respected, it's just at another societal facet - one shouldn't generalize that all old money is bad influence.
A good education, upbringing and passing-on of guanxi are givens. Old money should never be rebuked or taught as a wrong thing. Rather it's what the descendants do to multiply it for future generations to multiply that counts.
Wasted fortunes and the idle rich is a condition of a failed and neglected upbringing in the first place.
Didn't say he was wrong about equipping kids with education and life's skills. As you said these are a given.
But having done that and not entrust one cent to your decendents means either you have failed in your duty or they are mentally impaired.
I mean what else are you going to do with the wealth you have apart from donating the proceeds to charity.
Didn't say he was wrong about equipping kids with education and life's skills. As you said these are a given.
But having done that and not entrust one cent to your decendents means either you have failed in your duty or they are mentally impaired.
I mean what else are you going to do with the wealth you have apart from donating the proceeds to charity.
agreed.
some i know have conditional trusts funds - maybe that could be a good way to go about things: all assets property etc into a trust, manage the trust like a company in line with economic growth, cockup 3 times and the trust cuts you off and benefits charity.
something like that maybe
Didn't say he was wrong about equipping kids with education and life's skills. As you said these are a given.
But having done that and not entrust one cent to your decendents means either you have failed in your duty or they are mentally impaired.
I mean what else are you going to do with the wealth you have apart from donating the proceeds to charity.
I have to agree with andy.
Education's value is getting less vis-a-vis property's value.
No matter what professions our children pursue, they will find the value of human resource increasing decimated by an overpopulated world. Engineers have been vanquished; doctors mauled; and lawyers are now watching in horror, as the flood gate opens. :scared-4:
Giving our children a good education alone without properties is like sending our well-trained commandos to war without weapons.
It will only turn them into prolific letter writers who flood the Straits Times ad nauseum with complaints about rising property prices.
I have to agree with andy.
Education's value is getting less vis-a-vis property's value.
No matter what professions our children pursue, they will find the value of human resource increasing decimated by an overpopulated world. Engineers have been vanquished; doctors mauled; and lawyers are now watching in horror, as the flood gate opens. :scared-4:
Giving our children a good education alone without properties is like sending our well-trained commandos to war without weapons.
It will only turn them into prolific letter writers who flood the Straits Times ad nauseum with complaints about rising property prices.
everyone has a different method. for me i wouldn't go that far as to give lock stock and barrel. after JC/army, my kid will have use of any of the family's properties either shared or himself till he wants to get his own place - but it will never be transferred in his name. the extent i will go is to part-fund his first marital home. If the in-laws are of equal status, then possible each spouse will each get 50% as a matrimonial gift. nothing beyond that tho.
I have to agree with andy.
Education's value is getting less vis-a-vis property's value.
No matter what professions our children pursue, they will find the value of human resource increasing decimated by an overpopulated world. Engineers have been vanquished; doctors mauled; and lawyers are now watching in horror, as the flood gate opens. :scared-4:
Giving our children a good education alone without properties is like sending our well-trained commandos to war without weapons.
It will only turn them into prolific letter writers who flood the Straits Times ad nauseum with complaints about rising property prices.
very true. More wealth leave to the children also lead to them suing each other about their fair share. just look at those recent court cases involving the rich. i rather leave everything to a foundation, that gives the poor more opportunity to succeed in their life. just look at Warren Buffet.
stock sounds from high capacity engines like ferraris etc have a low bassy gurgle, and doesnt sound too bad
kuitao and exhoz mods for low capacity engines like 1.2l, 1.6l etc create drone and are loud screamers. those are the irritating POSs you hear late at night
in the States, these poseurs are named 'ricers'. in malaysia, 'rempits'
in Singapore, can call them 'armpits'.
Personally i just call them CBs
... remind me of motorcycles's sounds ... especially at night ...
Those jokers who revved their 125cc at night really irritate me.
However, I love the low bassy sound of a 1,100cc. It's so ***y!
I stopped riding bike after I upgraded my licence to Class 2. What a waste!
agreed.
some i know have conditional trusts funds - maybe that could be a good way to go about things: all assets property etc into a trust, manage the trust like a company in line with economic growth, cockup 3 times and the trust cuts you off and benefits charity.
something like that maybe
everyone has a different method. for me i wouldn't go that far as to give lock stock and barrel. after JC/army, my kid will have use of any of the family's properties either shared or himself till he wants to get his own place - but it will never be transferred in his name. the extent i will go is to part-fund his first marital home. If the in-laws are of equal status, then possible each spouse will each get 50% as a matrimonial gift. nothing beyond that tho.
I like the idea managing the assets/estate with a trust.
The assets/estate will be theirs but they must earn their rights. This is where proper upbringing (by the parents - not the schools) will teach them to earn that.
everyone has a different method. for me i wouldn't go that far as to give lock stock and barrel. after JC/army, my kid will have use of any of the family's properties either shared or himself till he wants to get his own place - but it will never be transferred in his name. the extent i will go is to part-fund his first marital home. If the in-laws are of equal status, then possible each spouse will each get 50% as a matrimonial gift. nothing beyond that tho.
May I ask what do you intend to do with the rest of your wealth?
May I ask what do you intend to do with the rest of your wealth?
buy lumbo, fa-lah-li or por-shay ...
Actually what is the lesson you hope to teach by staying in HDB?
Actually what is the lesson you hope to teach by staying in HDB?
empathy?
something those in ivory tower have lost completely
buy lumbo, fa-lah-li or por-shay ...
You mean the paper-made ones used for burning:doh:
We are talking about weath after the weathly passed on.....
Regulators
25-10-09, 23:43
Condo and pte estate people can also be crap in their own way, it is not the place that makes the person, it is in the person himself or upbringing. I went from rags to making my first mil years after graduation and have lived in hdb estate for most part as a kid. no doubt that you get all kinds of trash hanging around in hdb estates, but that does not make up the majority of hdb dwellers. those neighbours i had were simply heavenly and the kind of community bonding and neighbourliness is something pte estate people are lacking. People in pte estates compare bo liao things like cars and luxury items which i find extremely bo liao. People the likes of you who have lived in a pte estate most part of ur life are the ones who create that social divide. I never despise or look down on hdb living as my past experiences in hdb flats have nurtured me to have respect for people from all walks of life. Safety concern?.....not really ...my kakis and I are still alive, kicking and doing well today even though we had all lived in hdb once.
i read with interest that some of the bros here would rather - given a choice - bring up a family in a HDB than private. this is an interesting dynamic for me as i was never brought up in one, and my personal experience stems from my first marital property which was sold after 3 years. i've also stayed at senggang for a couple of weeks while transitioning renovations. here are my observations, and i am using straits times terminology so as not to be seditious.
there exists a very apparent social divide. at the upper flrs of the carpark you find beemers, mbs, porsches and maseratis; while the lower floors carry the cherries and kias of which a good many are weekend plates. a good many of these had tanned owners. every quarter there would always be an instance in the upper decks - cashcard/laptop/hp
every couple of months there will be at least one instance of theft/breakins at flats - some reported and ST, most are not
in the late wkend evenings, the compound is chock full of miscreants playing loud music, and playgrounds are littered w syringes. again, mostly the tanner variety.
in the afternoons, unites colors of ahbengs and ahlians at the void deck playing truant, some drinking and most smoking.
in the 2 weeks at senggang, a wrx had his mod parts stripped, and there were 2 fights at the nearby kopitiam
the above were strong reasons i gave up on hdb - it's no longer safe for kids today imho.
new2mondrian
26-10-09, 00:24
Actually u guys are a pretty funny bunch, and we completely veered off topic (mea culpa i know)... from HDB to bringing up kids to cars (modification or otherwise). But since this thread is under "Miscellaneous" anyway, I guess no harm in me veering off topic yah? :)
I agree that there is a widening income gap. This is a common issue faced by all nations, and the process of wealth accumulation will only exacerbate such divide in time to come. The widening income gap will of course lead to other evils such as the haves vs have-nots and inequality of opportunities. I also agree that HDB dwelling is not without its issue of greater contact with the lower income strata.
BUT despite this, I feel that HDB dwelling has a lot to offer. Firstly, my child grows up with children of the middle income strata, and sees them as his peers. Hence it makes it easier to instil a sense of thrift in the formative years, and more importantly, that it sends a clear message to the child that his parents are not rich, and therefore there is no crutch available to him IF he doesn't strive to make a success of himself (not that private/landed housing cannot achieve this, but to ME it is easier to do so while staying in public housing). I do respect wealth that is passed from generation from generation. It is the right of every parent, particularly in the Asian context, to pass down wealth to the next generation. But from a historical perspective, passing down of wealth without the right mindset and the right set of values can sometimes do more harm than good.
There is no right or wrong when it comes to parenting, and what all parents can do is to simply try their best. To be honest, we are never fully sure if what we do is always correct, but we try like all other parents. We want to raise a grounded, well-adjusted child with a sense of social responsibility and compassion (hence we thought that HDB dwelling is a good way to start). But this is a tall order which more often than not, we aren't sure if we are doing the right thing at all. One thing for sure is that we don't want our child to suffer a crutch syndrome, to believe that if he doesn't study hard, his parents' wealth can sustain his intended lifestyle; if he cannot tolerate his work or rack up tonnes of credit card debts, mom and dad will be there to bail him out. Not that landed/private housing cannot achieve this; but during the early formative years, it is slightly easier to teach thrift by setting an example ourselves. Other equally important stuffs such as maximising the value of each dollar is not easily understood to a young child, and can come later.
One example as how I see it is this. When my 3-year-old asked for a red aeroplane (when he already has a blue one), I could tell him that mom and dad does not have a lot of money, so why don't we see if we can turn the blue plane red by making the blue plane a jacket (get some mahjong paper and red paint, and make a red jacket together)... If he wants more trains, we would collect empty toilet rolls and bottle caps, and make some trains instead of buying more. This is an exercise in creativity, and he understands that money is hard to come by in our household; and will not insist that we cater to his every want.
I totally agree that how each child turns out is more often than not the values which are instilled in his/her formative years, and the company which he/she mixes with. And there are ample examples across the entire social strata, of cases where a child eventually goes astray; and more often than not it is a lack of parental involvement rather than the class of housing which the child stays in. Hence, despite the lengthy post, it is again each to his own on how best to bring up a child, or to invest one's monies, or to do what one wishes to do in life. :)
Actually u guys are a pretty funny bunch, and we completely veered off topic (mea culpa i know)... from HDB to bringing up kids to cars (modification or otherwise). But since this thread is under "Miscellaneous" anyway, I guess no harm in me veering off topic yah? :)
..........
..........
I totally agree that how each child turns out is more often than not the values which are instilled in his/her formative years, and the company which he/she mixes with. And there are ample examples across the entire social strata, of cases where a child eventually goes astray; and more often than not it is a lack of parental involvement rather than the class of housing which the child stays in. Hence, despite the lengthy post, it is again each to his own on how best to bring up a child, or to invest one's monies, or to do what one wishes to do in life. :)
One thing good about having a child mixing and living with those 80% who stay in public housing is that if he/she ever become a leader, he/she will be able to understand the majority he/she is leading and formulate practical policies to improve their life.
Can you imagine a civil servant who have never taken public transport formulating public transport policy? Can these policies be practical?
Can you imagine an Air Force commander who is not a pilot leading his men to fight an air war? Does he know what is a dogfight?
Can you .............
One thing good about having a child mixing and living with those 80% who stay in public housing is that if he/she ever become a leader, he/she will be able to understand the majority he/she is leading and formulate practical policies to improve their life.
Can you imagine a civil servant who have never taken public transport formulating public transport policy? Can these policies be practical?
Can you imagine an Air Force commander who is not a pilot leading his men to fight an air war? Does he know what is a dogfight?
Can you .............
Can you imagine ...
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3333/f9991f5ccecp0.gif
Mee Siam by default does not come with any hum ... LOL
No doubt living in HDB might be able to nurture the child character but in a public housing areas, the chances for mixing the bad companies is much higher ...
I guess the point is, it does not matter where a person stay ... it is the upbringing that shapes the young kid.
True in a way, all have their points but sometimes wealth also makes a child more confident, that he is able to achieve much more than others, too much underdog upbringing may lead to a child who may become an underdog and feel that he is unable to succeed. :2cents:
Anyway, I believe in nature 70% and nurture 30% that makes up the psychology of people, so no matter what we try to put the child through (nurture) may not be able to change his character which is governed by (nature) :D So let's all not be so serious LOL! I always like to think talent skips a generation, so my child should be quite OK.
Condo and pte estate people can also be crap in their own way, it is not the place that makes the person, it is in the person himself or upbringing. I went from rags to making my first mil years after graduation and have lived in hdb estate for most part as a kid. no doubt that you get all kinds of trash hanging around in hdb estates, but that does not make up the majority of hdb dwellers. those neighbours i had were simply heavenly and the kind of community bonding and neighbourliness is something pte estate people are lacking. People in pte estates compare bo liao things like cars and luxury items which i find extremely bo liao. People the likes of you who have lived in a pte estate most part of ur life are the ones who create that social divide. I never despise or look down on hdb living as my past experiences in hdb flats have nurtured me to have respect for people from all walks of life. Safety concern?.....not really ...my kakis and I are still alive, kicking and doing well today even though we had all lived in hdb once.
Lighten up bro, going by statistics, it is much harder for someone with a humble background to succeed, as the environment is not so conducive, for example if you live in a neighbourhood where all your neighbours and are doctors and top professionals and your parents had the means to give you all the support to become a top professional, it is more likely you would become a top professional, not because you are hungry and strive to achieve but it comes as only the most natural thing to do. I know this for a fact because I come from an elite school with peers whose fathers include judges, lawyers, doctors, bankers etc etc and whose grandparents have donated the very buildings named after them and which we study in. BTW I am one of those who fell between the cracks and posting in condo forum....LOL but compared to most others in the general population, I think (hope) I am at least better off. Of course I must admit there are many, many in these forums whose backgrounds are more humble but even much more successful than me :) Hee hee.
I went from rags to making my first mil years after graduation and have lived in hdb estate for most part as a kid....... those neighbours i had were simply heavenly and the kind of community bonding and neighbourliness is something pte estate people are lacking.
Yes yes, you remind us again how successful you are being an overachiever and all. it is rather impressive no less.
but the hdb estates of our generation - they were tighter, open-door policy amongst neighbours, kids play together & study together - things were much safer and close-knit then. Is that necessarily true today?
Regulators
26-10-09, 10:39
how close-knit a community is depends on how open you are to accept differences. i know some people who are racist so they will steer clear of people from certain races so it sometimes matters not how good the neighbour is. there are also some people are introverts by nature or who are too overly protective of their kids, resulting in closed-door policies. every corner of singapore is made up of hdb blocks and i can't say that every hdb flat is suitable to bring up a kid, neither can i say that every block is not conducive, very much depends on individual characters, which is the same as in a pte estate. Some hdb estates i agree has a higher likelihood of witnessing crime, but some estates like Dover Close East, Cantonment, East Coast and many others provide peaceful living which is not necessarily inferior to pte estate dwellers. If singapore decides to privatise all hdb flats one day, will you be singing the same tune bout people living in pte estates?
Yes yes, you remind us again how successful you are being an overachiever and all. it is rather impressive no less.
but the hdb estates of our generation - they were tighter, open-door policy amongst neighbours, kids play together & study together - things were much safer and close-knit then. Is that necessarily true today?
did anyone see the news? HDBs nowadays increasingly dominated by foreigners/PRs who don't integrate with the locals.
we have a new set of social problems, all thanks to mr mai hum's foreign-not-talent policy
did anyone see the news? HDBs nowadays increasingly dominated by foreigners/PRs who don't integrate with the locals.
we have a new set of social problems, all thanks to mr mai hum's foreign-not-talent policy
That means locals are moving up?
I thought it's the school that you go to that will determine your character as the friends around you influence you..
For primary school, I am ok with neighbourhood one ..
but after that, it is better to go to brand name ones to mix around with future leaders and rich men's sons... when they are younger, social status not so important..and who knows.. the network you have in secondary and tertiary maybe will allow you to be help by your friends when they start working in their papa's company..
I thought it's the school that you go to that will determine your character as the friends around you influence you..
For primary school, I am ok with neighbourhood one ..
but after that, it is better to go to brand name ones to mix around with future leaders and rich men's sons... when they are younger, social status not so important..and who knows.. the network you have in secondary and tertiary maybe will allow you to be help by your friends when they start working in their papa's company..
You have to start as young as possible, there is no ties stronger than helping your primary school buddy, especially if the school has a primary school, I never felt that those who joined us in Secondary school as pure.
.......... I never felt that those who joined us in Secondary school as pure.
Maybe I am luckier. My secondary school didn't teach us discrimination at a young age.
Maybe I am luckier. My secondary school didn't teach us discrimination at a young age.
:cheers1: :cheers1:
You have to start as young as possible, there is no ties stronger than helping your primary school buddy, especially if the school has a primary school, I never felt that those who joined us in Secondary school as pure.
I was reading with much interest on this topic until I stumbled upon this particular posting.
First and foremost, not all students who come from elite schools bear similar thoughts as you. I came from the most elite school in Sg, but I was taught NEVER to discriminate since young. Doesn't matter if you sit next to me during science lessons and swim at one another's pool after school, or we have lunch at a hawker centre after soccer. I was thought to respect CHARACTER, not the 'branded' schools, not the depth of the pockets, not the cars you drive, and most definitely, not the primary school you came from etc. Maybe my parents are a bit different, though I hope not the exception. With your 'elite' upbringing, your myopic view is a bit disturbing. Ties from primary schools? I would have severed ties with you as my school mate. Your judgment of a person's character is based upon the primary school one attends? Pure? No offence, but I feel very much ashamed, coming from an elite school, to know that elite school graduates harbour such thoughts. Maybe I am different, but I hope not the exception.
I was reading with much interest on this topic until I stumbled upon this particular posting.
First and foremost, not all students who come from elite schools bear similar thoughts as you. I came from the most elite school in Sg, but I was taught NEVER to discriminate since young. Doesn't matter if you sit next to me during science lessons and swim at one another's pool after school, or we have lunch at a hawker centre after soccer. I was thought to respect CHARACTER, not the 'branded' schools, not the depth of the pockets, not the cars you drive, and most definitely, not the primary school you came from etc. Maybe my parents are a bit different, though I hope not the exception. With your 'elite' upbringing, your myopic view is a bit disturbing. Ties from primary schools? I would have severed ties with you as my school mate. Your judgment of a person's character is based upon the primary school one attends? Pure? No offence, but I feel very much ashamed, coming from an elite school, to know that elite school graduates harbour such thoughts. Maybe I am different, but I hope not the exception.
Listen to my clarification, by the time we reached upper primary most of the stutdents formed cliques, not because they wanted to, but because of their social activities, and where they lived, imagine trying to fit in a group who all lived in Queen Astrid park or met at Holland Village every day to do their shoppingt? They also met at SICC to bowl, play tennis or swim. So by the time they reached secondary level strong cliques already formed, not because they were snobs, they were all very nice, in fact the richer one was, the simpler they were, and till today I follow this mantra, I always got to Orchard Road in Berms, because when I was way young, most of my friends I knew who lived in D9, roamed in Orchard Road in the most casual attire. ie. what most of us would wear at home.
Anyway, I was just sharing my observations so please don't lable me as myopic. BTW I was one of the poorer ones, as I did not live in Queen Astrid Aprk, Whitehouse Road, or Watten Estate :D Heck I did not even live in D9, 10 or 11. I lived in Woodlands albeit landed property.
I was reading with much interest on this topic until I stumbled upon this particular posting.
First and foremost, not all students who come from elite schools bear similar thoughts as you. I came from the most elite school in Sg, but I was taught NEVER to discriminate since young. Doesn't matter if you sit next to me during science lessons and swim at one another's pool after school, or we have lunch at a hawker centre after soccer. I was thought to respect CHARACTER, not the 'branded' schools, not the depth of the pockets, not the cars you drive, and most definitely, not the primary school you came from etc. Maybe my parents are a bit different, though I hope not the exception. With your 'elite' upbringing, your myopic view is a bit disturbing. Ties from primary schools? I would have severed ties with you as my school mate. Your judgment of a person's character is based upon the primary school one attends? Pure? No offence, but I feel very much ashamed, coming from an elite school, to know that elite school graduates harbour such thoughts. Maybe I am different, but I hope not the exception.
most elite school in sg? A** or R* ?? :o
I came from the most elite school in Sg, but I was taught NEVER to discriminate since young.
lol your this one sentence depicts a typical RI boy. you guys consider yourselves elite in what? grades?
Regulators
26-10-09, 22:55
elite in name what is the use? How many inventors, nobel laurettes and scientists with cures for diseases cme frm RI Alumni?
lol your this one sentence depicts a typical RI boy. you guys consider yourselves elite in what? grades?
he was definitely rafflesian. ac boys ARE discriminating :D
elite in name what is the use? How many inventors, nobel laurettes and scientists with cures for diseases cme frm RI Alumni?
dun pray pray, the RI alumni came out with wonderful inventions like COE, ERP- even a michelin 4 star dish: Vongole Vermicelli du Siam ala Chino-Pomodoro (or Mee Siam ai Hum)
proud owner
26-10-09, 23:15
he was definitely rafflesian. ac boys ARE discriminating :D
oh well ..
the rafflesia is the Biggest flower in the world (though only found in jungle) ..
what more can we say about the human rafflesians ?
they are all great ...
proud owner
26-10-09, 23:17
dun pray pray, the RI alumni came out with wonderful inventions like COE, ERP- even a michelin 4 star dish: Vongole Vermicelli du Siam ala Chino-Pomodoro (or Mee Siam ai Hum)
you mean the SPG minister ? who married ang mo ?
oh well ..
the rafflesia is the Biggest flower in the world (though only found in jungle) ..
what more can we say about the human rafflesians ?
they are all great ...
They are so ... SHINGZ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpHoHJ4DFIQ) !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpHoHJ4DFIQ
proud owner
26-10-09, 23:20
[quote=tkc]
I came from the most elite school in Sg, but I was taught NEVER to discriminate since young.
now we know what it means when someone says
" Your modesty is second to none"
he was definitely rafflesian. ac boys ARE discriminating :D
ouch ....... :gun3:
proud owner
26-10-09, 23:28
he was definitely rafflesian. ac boys ARE discriminating :D
since i am not discriminating, hence not ACians, and was taught not to discriminate, hence not rafflesian...
wow so my school was 3rd most elite ..!!!
he never say his school elite in what. Sekali...
Exposed Leg Hair Elite: Chinese High
Exposed Armpits Elite: SCGS
Most amount of chrome in uniform Elite: Catholic High
Then again, could be Whitest Uniform Elite - also known as the Super White (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiwtf-lEcEk)
proud owner
26-10-09, 23:43
he never say his school elite in what. Sekali...
Exposed Leg Hair Elite: Chinese High
Exposed Armpits Elite: SCGS
Most amount of chrome in uniform Elite: Catholic High
Then again, could be Whitest Uniform Elite - also known as the Super White (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiwtf-lEcEk)
hahaha
i know what Super white means ... in chinese hahahhaa
good one
he never say his school elite in what. Sekali...
Exposed Leg Hair Elite: Chinese High
Exposed Armpits Elite: SCGS
Most amount of chrome in uniform Elite: Catholic High
Then again, could be Whitest Uniform Elite - also known as the Super White (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiwtf-lEcEk)
Err ... you say he is a he but you brought out SCGS ... are you implying ...? :)
OK OK! Judging from the responses thusfar, I can safely say everyone here on this page is from an elite school. Some are elite in discriminating others, some are elite in despising others, some are elite in believing they are the most elite, some are elite in .........., some are none of the above.:D
Schools are important and I really hope my kids could follow my footsteps too. However, I believe we should not let our school/classmates rule our life and stop us from having the right values in life. :cheers6:
oh well ..
the rafflesia is the Biggest flower in the world (though only found in jungle) ..
what more can we say about the human rafflesians ?
they are all great ...
Talking about Rafflesia ...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_V8ajEZgGwQw/SUY70tS8MXI/AAAAAAAABJw/PdaNq41wSDk/s320/rafflesia.jpg
Rafflesia has broken above $1,000 psf in July 2009 ! :scared-4:
17 July 2009, #15-09 1,324 sf @ $1,035 psf ($1,370,272).
It seems that Far East is still advertising this project in the papers, until today! :scared-4:
Wonder how many units they have left? :confused:
new2mondrian
27-10-09, 09:38
woah... battle of the schools ah??? to take the guess-work out, here's the list from cradle to grave:
1) Top pre-schools http://www.edupoll.org/content/view/23/38/
Edupoll’s Top 10 PreSchools/Kindergartens in Singapore * :
Nanyang Kindergarten
Maris Stella Kindergarten
Pat’s Schoolhouse
Newton Kindergarten
St. James’ Church Kindergarten
Chiltern House
EtonHouse
Barker Road Methodist Church Kindergarten
Chatsworth Kindergarten
Lorna Whiston PreSchool
(* in random order )
2) Top Primary Schools
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/content/singapore-primary-schools-ranked-academic-excellence
3) Top Secondary Schools
http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/press/2008/09/recognising-school-achievement.php
OR this... (but bear in mind that the top ranked school is a girls' school... not applicable to most gentlemen here...)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7759351/Ranking-of-Secondary-Schools
4) Top JCs
http://www.edupoll.org/content/view/182/94/
5) Tertiary
http://www.economist.com/business-education/whichmba/
6) And of course... cradle to the grave...
http://www.nea.gov.sg/passesaway/afd.htm
elite in name what is the use? How many inventors, nobel laurettes and scientists with cures for diseases cme frm RI Alumni?
My point exactly. Elite schools are over rated. Elite in what? Grades? Personality? Character? Sports? IQ? EQ? SG Gov's so-called elite schools are pretty one-dimensional. Hence I don't mix around with them much during my secondary school days especially those who discriminate. I mixed around with the neighbourhood school kids, SJI, St Pat's, SAS/UWC kids, and some RI and ACS kids, bonding via common interests rather than name of the school...eg gals, music, etc :P Anyway, I go to SICC because my parents brought me along to keep an eye on me, but I don't really fancy hanging out with anyone there, and definitely didn't want to grow up with childhood friends there.
People have expectations just because you come from an elite school. I don't want to be a minister, doctor, lawyer, inventor, scientists and nobel laurettes. There are ACS or RI boys who ran from the law, and there are also many neighbourhood kids who became doctors, lawyers, etc. So it really boils down to the person himself.
What is important is what you are doing with your life now. ok lah veering off topic here. No offence to forummers, just that I have a genuine affinity towards mixing around with people from all walks of life and discrimination, inevitably unavoidable, just destroys the social fabric of a society IMHO.
new2mondrian
27-10-09, 10:40
it is part of the human psyche to want to belong to the upper strata....u see the same mentality displayed across the globe, albeit in different forms. in NY there are the all-powerful housing co-ops and millionaire communities, and of parents making vast donations to schools to get their kids enrolled... in UK there are the fanciful private schools... and there is no need for The Economist to perform a global ranking of MBA each year if there is no global demand for it. And this extends beyond schools... to the class of housing (hdb to condos to landed... and of course we have the stratospheric class of landed in GCB areas and in Sentosa cove); and to the type of cars.... and to the company one works for (otherwise the SMEs here will not be suffering from a dearth of talent). My humble opinion is that no one is entirely above the elitist syndrome, but it is how those belonging to the upper strata views the less fortunate or the underdogs that matter. If the entire society at large is disconnected with a widening rich poor divide, then social problems will prevail and quality of life deteriorates across the entire spectrum will become inevitable.
woah... battle of the schools ah??? to take the guess-work out, here's the list from cradle to grave:
....................
....................
4) Top JCs
http://www.edupoll.org/content/view/182/94/
5) Tertiary
http://www.economist.com/business-education/whichmba/
6) And of course... cradle to the grave...
http://www.nea.gov.sg/passesaway/afd.htm
Very, very cool!
1. Err ... you did not list down the top hospitals one should be born in to be elite leh.
2. Top JCs are selected based on poll?
... I don't remember taking any such poll leh ... not fair right?
... (Err ... maybe I shouldn't complain so much since my school is in the list.)
3. Why only NBA?
... What about MB(BullShit), AhBeng (Civic Eng), etc.?
4. Thanks for item 6.
... I will definitely keep this one. It will be useful.
... Err ... no, no, no, I will pass it to my kids. (Cos' when I need it, I will not be able to use it rite?)
Thank you!
Regulators
27-10-09, 12:16
the only 2 rafflesians i respect is LKY and Kong Hee of City Harvest
My point exactly. Elite schools are over rated. Elite in what? Grades? Personality? Character? Sports? IQ? EQ? SG Gov's so-called elite schools are pretty one-dimensional. Hence I don't mix around with them much during my secondary school days especially those who discriminate. I mixed around with the neighbourhood school kids, SJI, St Pat's, SAS/UWC kids, and some RI and ACS kids, bonding via common interests rather than name of the school...eg gals, music, etc :P Anyway, I go to SICC because my parents brought me along to keep an eye on me, but I don't really fancy hanging out with anyone there, and definitely didn't want to grow up with childhood friends there.
People have expectations just because you come from an elite school. I don't want to be a minister, doctor, lawyer, inventor, scientists and nobel laurettes. There are ACS or RI boys who ran from the law, and there are also many neighbourhood kids who became doctors, lawyers, etc. So it really boils down to the person himself.
What is important is what you are doing with your life now. ok lah veering off topic here. No offence to forummers, just that I have a genuine affinity towards mixing around with people from all walks of life and discrimination, inevitably unavoidable, just destroys the social fabric of a society IMHO.
new2mondrian
27-10-09, 12:23
Very, very cool!
1. Err ... you did not list down the top hospitals one should be born in to be elite leh.
2. Top JCs are selected based on poll?
... I don't remember taking any such poll leh ... not fair right?
... (Err ... maybe I shouldn't complain so much since my school is in the list.)
3. Why only NBA?
... What about MB(BullShit), AhBeng (Civic Eng), etc.?
4. Thanks for item 6.
... I will definitely keep this one. It will be useful.
... Err ... no, no, no, I will pass it to my kids. (Cos' when I need it, I will not be able to use it rite?)
Thank you!
1. hospitals ah! alamak! how come i didn't think of that! hahaha.... then must extend all the way to place of conception hor? :p
2. JCs ah... our enlightened MOE has ceased to publish all JC rankings after 2004... so no official ranking results available.... wah.... ur school also on the list ah?
3. You are right! hehehe... list goes on lah... top companies to work for, top cars driven by towkays, top places to hold weddings, top condos to stay... wahahahaa.... and as for top MB(bull-shit), i think lots here can qualify lah.... myself included.... :D
4. for item 6, u can start to book a niche at the popular temples (if buddhist) already. i almost choked on my lunch when a friend (partner in a big 4 accounting firm) told me that he just paid $23,888 for a prized niche at a popular temple to place his ashes a few decades later. woah... part of investment planning??!!! :doh:
i almost choked on my lunch when a friend (partner in a big 4 accounting firm) told me that he just paid $23,888 for a prized niche at a popular temple to place his ashes a few decades later. woah... part of investment planning??!!! :doh:
Aiyoh ...! Maybe really afraid the property craze extends to that area ... must chop a plot first ah?!? :scared-5:
Aiyoh ...! Maybe really afraid the property craze extends to that area ... must chop a plot first ah?!? :scared-5:
I think this thingy is not so hot yet rite? Am I wrong?
1. Do they need blank cheques?
2. What is the sub-sales potential?
3. Is there any capital gain tax?
4. Can you sub-let? What is the rental yield?
5. If the location is "good", will URA increase the plot ratio and thereby present an enbloc opportunity?
Anyone knows?
Please enlighten me. Thanks.
If we're on the same topic, think only pt 2 possible coz you nvr know, the rest need to ask meh? .... hmmm good imagination .. URA?!!?? :rolleyes:
1. Do they need blank cheques?
2. What is the sub-sales potential?
3. Is there any capital gain tax?
4. Can you sub-let? What is the rental yield?
5. If the location is "good", will URA increase the plot ratio and thereby present an enbloc opportunity?
new2mondrian
27-10-09, 16:00
:D
I think this thingy is not so hot yet rite? Am I wrong?
1. Do they need blank cheques?
2. What is the sub-sales potential?
3. Is there any capital gain tax?
4. Can you sub-let? What is the rental yield?
5. If the location is "good", will URA increase the plot ratio and thereby present an enbloc opportunity?
Anyone knows?
Please enlighten me. Thanks.
hey, dun pray pray hor.... for all u guys know, this may be the next big thing... after attainment of all the material wealth in this world, time to settle what is deemed neccessary for the after-life. :D for those tracking the price index of such prized niche, 10 years ago (according to the same friend) they only cost $8,888 at the same temple... :doh:
and who knows? just look at this widow who made a pile out of such real estate lots too.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23733584-widow-auctions-off-burial-site-above-marilyn-monroe.do#
proud owner
27-10-09, 21:22
the only 2 rafflesians i respect is LKY and Kong Hee of City Harvest
sorry but who is Kong hee ? what has he done so far ?
city harvest ? sounds familiar ... the church who spent a lot of money to build a fountain ?
his wife is the long face singer ?
Regulators
28-10-09, 00:38
yup the guy with the singer wife. It is either u love him or hate him, but i think he is one dynamic guy.
sorry but who is Kong hee ? what has he done so far ?
city harvest ? sounds familiar ... the church who spent a lot of money to build a fountain ?
his wife is the long face singer ?
Regulators
28-10-09, 00:45
my wife told me those top scholars sitting in MOE (presumably a number from raffles) always changing the blooming syllabus for primary school (shifting certain topics up and down between P4 and P6 Science) really chia pah bo sai pang, paying them so much money and can't make up their blooming minds which topic should stay in which level. Singapore seems damn proud of their model drawing methodology (invesnted by hector chee), but it is damn cumbersome, tedious and unnecessary, so much for top bains in moe...:doh: :doh:
dun pray pray, the RI alumni came out with wonderful inventions like COE, ERP- even a michelin 4 star dish: Vongole Vermicelli du Siam ala Chino-Pomodoro (or Mee Siam ai Hum)
proud owner
28-10-09, 02:42
yup the guy with the singer wife. It is either u love him or hate him, but i think he is one dynamic guy.
dont know much about him
1.only hear complains about his church ..
2.heard he made his church people buy his wife's CD (to boost sales ?)
3.that their apt at Horizon tower got enbloc etc etc and
4. she wore some armani gown ? for some function etc ..
sure good to be pastor .. so rich , so powerful .. and yet govt dont tax them
dont know much about him
1.only hear complains about his church ..
2.heard he made his church people buy his wife's CD (to boost sales ?)
3.that their apt at Horizon tower got enbloc etc etc and
4. she wore some armani gown ? for some function etc ..
sure good to be pastor .. so rich , so powerful .. and yet govt dont tax them
http://stars.zaobao.com/images1/heyaoshan070105.jpg
Aiyah!
Just ignore Kong Hee's preaching,
watch Dayan Kong's growing, and
enjoy Sun Ho's singing lor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mUF5paHS2w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbroIlCZUsg
http://ent.people.com.cn/mediafile/200705/17/P200705171033032539730105.jpg ..... http://dzb.sg.com.cn/YLZM/W020040323763902505110.JPG
profiting from faith...
thank god for george carlin :cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA
dont know much about him
1.only hear complains about his church ..
2.heard he made his church people buy his wife's CD (to boost sales ?)
3.that their apt at Horizon tower got enbloc etc etc and
4. she wore some armani gown ? for some function etc ..
sure good to be pastor .. so rich , so powerful .. and yet govt dont tax them
I was there when he was promoting the CD !
Not my type of church... too many brain wash kids contributing $$$ to the place..
I'm there just to see the girls... but too old already... sobsob.. if only i was 10yrs younger.. i would be a very happy man in city harvest saturday nite session! ..Let's hold hands! Sing songs! Hugs hugs hugs! :)~~~
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