View Full Version : Hundred Trees (Former Hong Leong Garden @West Coast Drive)
forest tree
15-09-09, 22:20
With immediate effect, IAS will not be offered for new property sales. It will be interesting to see the launch price. I feel anything above 800 psf will not be attractive anymore. Imagine buy now, start paying and TOP is in 2014. I would rather buy apartment nearby and start to collect rental for 4 yrs which can fetch at least 100k++ in 4 yrs time.
In case anyone don't understand my poor english, please spare the cane. :scared-2:
My friends just came back form the developer private preview tonight.
They are selling those with west sun and facing highway units.
The crowd are about 200+ they need to ballot to get a unit.
Pricing for 2 bedrm are selling above $1K. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
The Interlace has just started burning tonight.
Not sure if the Hundred Trees can catch the fire.
Hey guys, everybody seems to forget that in 2007, when DPS was removed, the market still went up farther.
This may be true. The real buyers all come out in flocks cos they think the speculators hv stepped aside. Just look at how many new posters are present in this forum over the last couple of days.
This may be true. The real buyers all come out in flocks cos they think the speculators hv stepped aside. Just look at how many new posters are present in this forum over the last couple of days.
an agent sms me saying its selling at 900+psf
With immediate effect, IAS will not be offered for new property sales. It will be interesting to see the launch price. I feel anything above 800 psf will not be attractive anymore. Imagine buy now, start paying and TOP is in 2014. I would rather buy apartment nearby and start to collect rental for 4 yrs which can fetch at least 100k++ in 4 yrs time.
In case anyone don't understand my poor english, please spare the cane. :scared-2:
Even under progressive payment doesn't mean you pay 100% on Day 1, by the time foundation work is done is at least 1 year later so during this time you can still flip.:D
Even under progressive payment doesn't mean you pay 100% on Day 1, by the time foundation work is done is at least 1 year later so during this time you can still flip.:D
If prices head South it is not whether you can flip, but rather who would buy from you unless you make a loss.
If prices head South it is not whether you can flip, but rather who would buy from you unless you make a loss.
If price really head South that it doesn't matter whether you buy under DPS, IAS or progressive payment, you will still lose right? So what is your point???:beats-me-man:
If price really head South that it doesn't matter whether you buy under DPS, IAS or progressive payment, you will still lose right? So what is your point???:beats-me-man:
Prices would heads South because of the strong message from the Govt, and the suddeness of the implementation of the policy. Now sit back and watch how it unfolds in reality.
Once Interlace and Hundred Trees public launch, all will be clearer. Next week results will be out. :p
Prices would heads South because of the strong message from the Govt, and the suddeness of the implementation of the policy. Now sit back and watch how it unfolds in reality.
As far as I can remember, prices never headed in the direction of the Govt's "strong message".
It was always some major event beyond the Government's control.
1973 - Oil Crisis.
1985 - Singapore's first recession since independence.
1997 - Asian Financial Crisis.
2001 - Dot-Com Burst.
2008 - Lehman Brothers.
In 1995-96, the market was shooting up like crazy until the Government had to bring in the big gun - the capital gains tax - but in the end, it was the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis that brought the property market to its knees.
To curb speculation in the property market in 1996, the government had imposed income tax on gains which individuals made from selling properties within three years of purchase. It lifted the rule in 2001.
Source : Business Times – 10 Jul 2009
Then in 2001, the Government, seeing that the market was in such a pitiful state having suffered one misfortune (Asian Financial Crisis) to another (Dot-Com Burst), lifted the capital gains tax but the market remained dead and it was not until 2006 that the market started stirring to life.
Then the Govt started releasing more land, increased development charges, but all to no avail as the market kept shooting up ... until our good brother Lehman killed it.
If speculators are hit, the frenzy at showrooms would die down and so would the hyped up news, everybody would act rationally, so very hard for prices to go up, anyway I hope you are right, as property owner I would welcome price increases :D
If speculators are hit, the frenzy at showrooms would die down and so would the hyped up news, everybody would act rationally, so very hard for prices to go up, anyway I hope you are right, as property owner I would welcome price increases :D
Anyone know if the showrooms for hundred trees will be open this weekends?
If speculators are hit, the frenzy at showrooms would die down and so would the hyped up news, everybody would act rationally, so very hard for prices to go up, anyway I hope you are right, as property owner I would welcome price increases :D
Anyone know if the showrooms for hundred trees will be open this weekends?
Property_Owner
17-09-09, 12:04
As far as I can remember, prices never headed in the direction of the Govt's "strong message".
It was always some major event beyond the Government's control.
1973 - Oil Crisis.
1985 - Singapore's first recession since independence.
1997 - Asian Financial Crisis.
2001 - Dot-Com Burst.
2008 - Lehman Brothers.
In 1995-96, the market was shooting up like crazy until the Government had to bring in the big gun - the capital gains tax - but in the end, it was the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis that brought the property market to its knees.
Then in 2001, the Government, seeing that the market was in such a pitiful state having suffered one misfortune (Asian Financial Crisis) to another (Dot-Com Burst), lifted the capital gains tax but the market remained dead and it was not until 2006 that the market started stirring to life.
Then the Govt started releasing more land, increased development charges, but all to no avail as the market kept shooting up ... until our good brother Lehman killed it.
Oh Man, you are damn right!!!!!:cheers1:
As far as I can remember, prices never headed in the direction of the Govt's "strong message".
hi jlrx, I like ur post. very objective and non emotional, unlike some others.
Your observation of the history suggests one thing: as much as the government tries to interfere an open economy, its effect is at best only sentimental. And it's almost always the external factors that have major effect. But personally I find it politically correct to introduce some measures now, if for nothing but to make the public "happy". In reality, IAS is not used by flippers. (btw xebay, this is cher's point.) Removal of IAS does not stop flippers. It only stops those who have limited funds and try to buy beyond their means. Removing of IAS makes these people think harder before buying a 1M property based on their current income. This is a socially responsible policy. Although I find it akin to, once again, PAP "babysitting" the people. Well in Singapore this is part of the game. In a real "open" market like Hongkong, ppl can buy property with 95% loan, and with "future rental income" counted when assessing the loan. Government in HK is not interfering how banks giving out loans.
hi jlrx, I like ur post. very objective and non emotional, unlike some others.
Your observation of the history suggests one thing: as much as the government tries to interfere an open economy, its effect is at best only sentimental. And it's almost always the external factors that have major effect. But personally I find it politically correct to introduce some measures now, if for nothing but to make the public "happy". In reality, IAS is not used by flippers. (btw xebay, this is cher's point.) Removal of IAS does not stop flippers. It only stops those who have limited funds and try to buy beyond their means. Removing of IAS makes these people think harder before buying a 1M property based on their current income. This is a socially responsible policy. Although I find it akin to, once again, PAP "babysitting" the people. Well in Singapore this is part of the game. In a real "open" market like Hongkong, ppl can buy property with 95% loan, and with "future rental income" counted when assessing the loan. Government in HK is not interfering how banks giving out loans.
Well i agreed with you to a certain extend... but Hong Kong may not be a better place for RE ownership. I have seen prices dropping so fast and most of the bank just had to sit on a bagful of potential defaults and nothing they could do. I for one, would not rather see that happening to Singapore.
my 2 cents worth...
In reality, IAS is not used by flippers. (btw xebay, this is cher's point.) Removal of IAS does not stop flippers. It only stops those who have limited funds and try to buy beyond their means.
Which is my point, the flippers would decrease not because of removal of the IAS, (as you and cher point out IAS is not used by flippers) but the number of flippers would decrease because there would be a lack of buyers who have limited funds and try to buy beyond their means.
In a nutshell, if end buyers are cautious and not bite from flippers, flippers would cease to exist. So removing the IAS is like a chain effect, the results may not be direct.
As far as I can remember, prices never headed in the direction of the Govt's "strong message".
It was always some major event beyond the Government's control.
1973 - Oil Crisis.
1985 - Singapore's first recession since independence.
1997 - Asian Financial Crisis.
2001 - Dot-Com Burst.
2008 - Lehman Brothers.
In 1995-96, the market was shooting up like crazy until the Government had to bring in the big gun - the capital gains tax - but in the end, it was the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis that brought the property market to its knees.
Then in 2001, the Government, seeing that the market was in such a pitiful state having suffered one misfortune (Asian Financial Crisis) to another (Dot-Com Burst), lifted the capital gains tax but the market remained dead and it was not until 2006 that the market started stirring to life.
Then the Govt started releasing more land, increased development charges, but all to no avail as the market kept shooting up ... until our good brother Lehman killed it.
Well said...and will govt really implement more stringgent rulings to curb speculation/depress prices? I seriously doubt so..Singapore needs the rich china/middle east investors to invest and buy property here..Imagine how it will affect the economy if everyone starts moving their riches to Australia/china etc if it becomes too cumbersome (and no upside) to invest here.. some form of regulations are good to moderate the sharp increase in property prices but I don't think it will drive prices down significantly, probably just deter some small % of flippers. my 2 cents..cheers
Which is my point, the flippers would decrease not because of removal of the IAS, (as you and cher point out IAS is not used by flippers) but the number of flippers would decrease because there would be a lack of buyers who have limited funds and try to buy beyond their means.
In a nutshell, if end buyers are cautious and not bite from flippers, flippers would cease to exist. So removing the IAS is like a chain effect, the results may not be direct.
I have different opinions..
- high end apartments/condo - who are the end buyers to buy from flippers? my guess is the rich foreigners
- mid to low end -- the trend is to launch smaller units with lower quantum $. Reasons because people are more cautious and not willing to fork out bigger quantum, evident from the slower sales for bigger units? So I think the amount of people who have limited funds are small in % and have done their maths..If prices fall (if ever), my guess is they will just hold...
Still, I think it is good to have some form of measures to curb crazy prices but it will only impact to a limited extent..btw, I have also committed to a pty which I think is also on the high side..:doh:
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,350359-1253131140,00.html?
Published September 16, 2009
Developers' chips are down, but launches go ahead
Property counters hit, but several projects primed for launching
By KALPANA RASHIWALA AND UMA SHANKARI
(SINGAPORE) Some developers are proceeding with plans to launch their projects despite measures announced by the government on Monday to cool an overheating private housing market.
CapitaLand Residential yesterday began previewing at its office the Interlace condo to former owners of Gillman Heights from whom it bought the site for the 99-year leasehold project. Prices of units range from $850 to $1,150 per square foot, a CapitaLand spokeswoman told BT.
Likewise, GuocoLand is proceeding to preview its freehold Elliot at the East Coast project this weekend at an average price of about $950 psf. Prices of a typical three-bedroom apartment in the development will start from about $1.2 million. The low-rise condo, with a total 119 units, comprises eight blocks which will be five storeys high and a three-storey block.
City Developments is also understood to be rushing to get its showflat ready for a possible preview next weekend of its Hundred Trees condo on the former Hong Leong Gardens site in the West Coast area.
The government's cooling measures include scrapping the interest absorption scheme (IAS) and restarting confirmed list land sales in first half 2010.
'Knowing that the government is coming up with more land, developers who have even marginally profitable projects may want to clear the decks and launch their projects this year,' said Knight Frank chairman Tan Tiong Cheng.
A developer said: 'Most of us feel the impact on demand from the removal of IAS will be more psychological than real as only a minority of buyers have been opting for it in recent months in projects where we charge a price premium for the scheme.'
'Yes, buyers may now take a longer time to make a decision but they will bite if they like the product and if it's priced right,' he added.
Agreeing, Mr Tan said: 'Ultimately if the intention is to sell, they cannot fight the market impression that there must be a price adjustment.'
While removal of IAS will suck out some of the speculative demand from the market, developers remain confident of the fundamentals in the property market, and its attraction to investors in the current low-interest rate environment.
There is also consensus among analysts in stockbroking houses that the government measures will not derail the recovery in the property market. '(The) measures may dampen speculative sentiment but may not stop genuine private home demand if the trajectory of economic recovery continues,' Citigroup noted in a report.
Analysts also observed yesterday that while the increase in private home prices seen in the past few months may have come to a standstill, developers are unlikely to cut prices by much either.
'We believe that developers, buffeted by strong start-of-year sales, are unlikely to cut prices aggressively,' noted DBS Vickers analyst Adrian Chua. 'The key impact would be a slowdown in sales as speculative buying gets flushed out of the market.'
However, property counters such as City Developments Ltd (CDL), CapitaLand and Ho Bee were downgraded by a few analysts. As of yesterday's market closing, CDL has lost 9.4 per cent from its closing price last week. Over the same period, Wing Tai and Allgreen have shed 9.5 per cent, Keppel Land 8.1 per cent, GuocoLand 7.4 per cent, and CapitaLand 4.1 per cent.
The Interlace comprises a total 1,040 units. For the preview that began yesterday, five blocks with 153 units were released. 'The units comprise a selection from a full spectrum of unit types, from two-, three-, three plus study, four-bedroom apartments, townhouses and penthouses. The units range from 807 sq ft to 5,877 sq ft in size.
'These units, located on different levels in the development, also offer various facings - towards the pool, towards the sea, and towards the greenery at HortPark,' a CapitaLand spokeswoman said.
BT understands that the appointed agents for Interlace will begin marketing the project on Friday from a temporary showflat at the corner of Kim Seng and River Valley roads.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-09-16/krlaunch16_pg1.jpg
Well said...and will govt really implement more stringgent rulings to curb speculation/depress prices? I seriously doubt so..Singapore needs the rich china/middle east investors to invest and buy property here..Imagine how it will affect the economy if everyone starts moving their riches to Australia/china etc if it becomes too cumbersome (and no upside) to invest here.. some form of regulations are good to moderate the sharp increase in property prices but I don't think it will drive prices down significantly, probably just deter some small % of flippers. my 2 cents..cheers
If you look at the "Telling Numbers" table posted by Mr Funny, you can see that in Q3 09 Non Landed Leasehold there were 777 new sale units and 1312 resale and 260 subsale, if you just analyse sub sale that is 33% confirmed flippers, assuming that 400 of the 1312 resale figures are also sold by flippers, just that they sold after TOP, that would mean a whopping 660 flippers in Q3 alone. And of the 777 new sale units, one can also speculate that a certain percentage are speculators as well. So how do you all work out that flippers is a small percentage?
If you look at the "Telling Numbers" table posted by Mr Funny, you can see that in Q3 09 Non Landed Leasehold there were 777 new sale units and 1312 resale and 260 subsale, if you just analyse sub sale that is 33% confirmed flippers, assuming that 400 of the 1312 resale figures are also sold by flippers, just that they sold after TOP, that would mean a whopping 660 flippers in Q3 alone. And of the 777 new sale units, one can also speculate that a certain percentage are speculators as well. So how do you all work out that flippers is a small percentage?
if you read carefully, I meant it deters a small % of flippers :) and NOT flippers is a small %. Most people (personal opinion) if given a good price will flip..same with me even though I bought my prty for personal stay...anyway...I already said that moderate regulation is good, but prices are mostly driven by supply and demand...I seriously doubt the latest rulings will bring down the prices..anyway, time will tell... cheers
there were 777 new sale units and 1312 resale and 260 subsale, if you just analyse sub sale that is 33% confirmed flippers, assuming that 400 of the 1312 resale figures are also sold by flippers, just that they sold after TOP, that would mean a whopping 660 flippers in Q3 alone. And of the 777 new sale units, one can also speculate that a certain percentage are speculators as well. So how do you all work out that flippers is a small percentage?
this is not the way to determine flipper number. you need to go into REALIS database and see the actual subsale unit and see when it's being bought and sold. I have a Morgan Stanly report, which combed through the entire transaction database of H1 09, and found only very small numbers of flippers that enter into market this year. ("Flipper" here has the strict definition of buying/selling within a short period. If you buy it and sell it 2/3 years later, that's not a flipper, that's just a normal investor) And most of the flippings concentrate on 3 projects (can't remember the names, one of them is Centris). The fact is, as the data stand now, most 2009 pty buyers are not flippers (or at least not flipping yet, and there is no way you can tell now).
better buy double bay residence at simei. got 200 trees and many swimming pools. great investment opportynuity as singapore 4th uni opening up there.
proud owner
18-09-09, 00:51
better buy double bay residence at simei. got 200 trees and many swimming pools. great investment opportynuity as singapore 4th uni opening up there.
lets hear from you ..why you think with the 4th Uni ther will be a good investment ?
rental income ? whos the target renter ? students ? lecturer ? or ?
how is it better than NUS ? is this 4th UNi going to be bigger than NUS in terms of student intake and number of lecturers ? offering more fields of studies than NUS ?
lets hear from you ..why you think with the 4th Uni ther will be a good investment ?
rental income ? whos the target renter ? students ? lecturer ? or ?
how is it better than NUS ? is this 4th UNi going to be bigger than NUS in terms of student intake and number of lecturers ? offering more fields of studies than NUS ?
It's got "200 trees" so it must be a "great investment opportynuity". :cheers1:
better buy double bay residence at simei. got 200 trees and many swimming pools. great investment opportynuity as singapore 4th uni opening up there.
this is not the way to determine flipper number. you need to go into REALIS database and see the actual subsale unit and see when it's being bought and sold. I have a Morgan Stanly report, which combed through the entire transaction database of H1 09, and found only very small numbers of flippers that enter into market this year. ("Flipper" here has the strict definition of buying/selling within a short period. If you buy it and sell it 2/3 years later, that's not a flipper, that's just a normal investor) And most of the flippings concentrate on 3 projects (can't remember the names, one of them is Centris). The fact is, as the data stand now, most 2009 pty buyers are not flippers (or at least not flipping yet, and there is no way you can tell now).
How do you define the number presented in the subsales statistic? You defined people who sell at sub sales owner/occupiers?
We cannot have such a narrow and strict definition of flipper as one who sells and buys within a few months, flippers can also mean those that buy and sell it in 2/3 years, ie. buy from PRE-TOP to post TOP. IMHO I don't agree that flippers must come under a strict definition, to me a flipper is one who books a unit with no intention of staying and selling or renting it out to make a profit, in the end call them what you will but they are the ones who create artificial demand and artificial price increases.
to me a flipper is one who books a unit with no intention of staying and selling or renting it out to make a profit, in the end call them what you will but they are the ones who create artificial demand and artificial price increases.
so to you there is no such thing as "property investment" isn't it ?
Which is my point, the flippers would decrease not because of removal of the IAS, (as you and cher point out IAS is not used by flippers) but the number of flippers would decrease because there would be a lack of buyers who have limited funds and try to buy beyond their means.
In a nutshell, if end buyers are cautious and not bite from flippers, flippers would cease to exist. So removing the IAS is like a chain effect, the results may not be direct.
Eh... I think sub-sales don't enjoy IAS. So I don't follow your logic how, assuming IAS does not result in decrease of flippers coz they don't need or use IAS, end buyers are gonna decrease in numbers.
The way I see it, without the added benefit of 'grab now pay later' of IAS, if it indeed results in less developer sales, it can only do good for the sub-sale / resale market.
so to you there is no such thing as "property investment" isn't it ?
Property investor is for owner occupier who makes profit. Speculator is with the only intent of buying to resale/rent.
So the showflat opening this weekend? Passed by last night, doesn't look like it's gonna be ready in a couple of days... Still see quite a few agents gathering at the side of the road feeding mozzies at ard 10pm... are they expecting potential buyers to drive by late at night???
Property investor is for owner occupier who makes profit. Speculator is with the only intent of buying to resale/rent. This logic is inherently flawed. "occupier" does not sell the property, where is the "profit" ? Occupier is not an investor. Property is not only for home staying. It's also a business. When you are more seasoned to the market your will start to appreciate this.
anyway I can see where you are coming from and the line of your thinking. I think I'm done with this case. It's alright, each one has different opinion.
Wah, with your such definition, SLA, GIC, Temasek, HDB, JTC etc and all property developers also become listed under "speculators" because they bought and sold land and properties and also buy for renting out! :scared-1:
Property investor is for owner occupier who makes profit. Speculator is with the only intent of buying to resale/rent.
There many categories:
1. Owner-occupier (Class A) - a house is a home.
These people consider their house to be their home and not an invesment. It is not about money. They will oppose en bloc sales.
2. Owner-occupier (Class B) - a house is an investment.
These people consider their house to be an investment. If the right offer comes along, especially in an en bloc, they will consider.
3. Investor (Class A) - long term.
These are long term investors who buy multiple properties because they are afraid that their descendants will fall into HDB class. Will not sell and may even put their properties into a trust.
4. Investor (Class B) - medium term.
These investors buy for their retirement funding or children's university education. May sell when the time is ripe.
5. Specuvestor.
These are deep-pocketed investors who hope to make a quick buck but are able to hold in case the market turns, or vice versa. (e.g. Temasek holdings and their stake in Merrill Lynch).
6. Speculator.
Hope to make a quick buck in the short term, e.g. around a year or two.
7. Flipper.
No intention to even complete the purchase.
Wah, with your such definition, SLA, GIC, Temasek, HDB, JTC etc and all property developers also become listed under "speculators" because they bought and sold land and properties and also buy for renting out! :scared-1:
These are developers doh!
Just received email from agents.
Some stacks got thermal insulating paint.
There is also laminated glazed ones.
Interesting. Also still have IAS.
Just received email from agents.
Some stacks got thermal insulating paint.
There is also laminated glazed ones.
Interesting. Also still have IAS.
These are not going to help if the units are west facing.
These are not going to help if the units are west facing.
For those facing west (landed view), it should be quite ok for low flooring as the 100 trees should block some heat out. For the facing east (aye view), really need to shut the balcony sliding door.
Allthepies
20-09-09, 12:39
Just received email from agents.
Some stacks got thermal insulating paint.
There is also laminated glazed ones.
Interesting. Also still have IAS.
yo ur agent very efficient leh.
can share which stacks got the special thermal insulating paint and laminated glazed ones? and did ur agent tell u when is the showroom ready? and the launch date?
These are not going to help if the units are west facing.
Which stacks are west facing?
Which stacks are west facing?
All the landed view ones are SW facing.
yo ur agent very efficient leh.
can share which stacks got the special thermal insulating paint and laminated glazed ones? and did ur agent tell u when is the showroom ready? and the launch date?
Preview 25 sep.
stacks 25 upward (last two blocks) have thermal paint. Not sure it is cos there is lesser shade. Anyone know y?
Can look at
http://www.sg-launch.com/hundredtrees?gclid=CJTl9Kj0gJ0CFZMtpAodE2TBEA
The thermal paint blocks should be the last two blocks near to tennis courts. More exposed under the west sun?
Actually IMHO, among the other possible options, the current overall layout of the blocks is the best option. As blocks are placed at the center and not the pool at the center. The pool is placed along the expressway side... so it balanced up the negative expressway view with a pool view. There's two other smaller pools. One pool near the entrance.
Blocks along the AYE are tilted to face away from the Expressway, as compared to Infiniti.. facing the expressway. Should have less sound blasting at it directly? I am not sure if it get bounced off the wall also. The back facing west side blocks gives the impression that they are at the same angel of the west sun... so less exposed?
I would think that stacks 03 07 11 15 etc facing the expressway and stacks 01, 05 09 etc facing the landed housing are the better ones. 4 bedders are mainly west sun units... so...
Preview 25 sep.
stacks 25 upward (last two blocks) have thermal paint. Not sure it is cos there is lesser shade. Anyone know y?
Do you know whether the preview is in the morning / afternoon / everning on 25th Sep?
Do you know whether the preview is in the morning / afternoon / everning on 25th Sep?
Juz received sms that reads: soft launch this Fri ...Time is not confirmed yet as they will be opening it to ex-residents .. like tt wor.
Look very nice...
http://www.hundredtrees.sg/
These are Tabebuia rosea trees (also known as Trumpet Tree or Pink Poui). The large, trumpet-shaped flowers usually bloom after a dry spell. The flowering period lasts several days, and the entire tree is covered with a profusion of blossoms.
Look very nice...
http://www.hundredtrees.sg/
Another Infiniti... too near to the noisy expressway... :banghead:
These are Tabebuia rosea trees (also known as Trumpet Tree or Pink Poui). The large, trumpet-shaped flowers usually bloom after a dry spell. The flowering period lasts several days, and the entire tree is covered with a profusion of blossoms.
I thought it's Mempat? (some agent confirmed that)
Just got a call from a Huttons agent. They started queuing up at the showflat liao. Thur supposed to be the preview for ex residents.
I was originally very interested in this project. Recee the area a few times, but finally decided to give it a miss after experiencing for myself the AYE noise from the nearby Clementi flats (which from the map, will be equivalent distance from AYE compared to the AYE facing Hundred trees).
All the best to bros going for this project. :cheers5:
So many here sensitive to noise, sun etc, but in the end why all units sold out ah?
You mean other people don't mind?
http://i2.propertyguru.com.sg/images/ps/logo.png
Sales of private homes stay strong
PropertyGuru.com.sg
Tuesday, 22 September 2009
Despite the Government’s announcement last week of the measures to take the bubbles from the property market, the demand of consumers for private homes still remained strong.
Property developers Hotel Properties and CapitaLand stated on Monday that 65% or 233 out of the 360 units at the former site of Gillman Heights in Alexandra Road, which were launched during The Interlace project, were sold over the previous week.
The sold units, which range from two-roomer units to penthouses, had a selling price that ranges from $850 psf up to $1,150 psf.
Another developer, Guocoland, which had held a preview launch all throughout the weekend of its freehold Elliot – comprising 119 units – at the East Coast project, sold 75% or 45 of 60 units that were launched at a price of $970 psf.
In the market’s upper-mid segment, buyers snapped-up additional 5% or 14 units of 289-unit Trizon of Singapore Land at Mount Sinai during the weekend. The said project, which is located at the former site of Himiko Court, is now 70% sold, with a selling price of $1,300 up to $1,500 psf.
The long sales over weekend seem to point out that buying interest of consumers is not dampened by the move of the Government to cool down the market, such as scrapping off of the interest absorption scheme (IAS) as well as restarting of the confirmed list of land sales during the first six months of the following year.
According to a spokesman of Guocoland, less than 10% of its buyers or 4 out of 45 had taken up the said scheme. Elliot, the East Coast project, was given the IAS-approval before the said scheme was banned by the Government.
“Feedback from buyers indicates that they are not overly concerned with the Government's cooling-down measures, and are confident of the long-term capital appreciation potential for well-designed properties in ideal locations”, the spokesman said.
No wonder even trees have got potential buyers queuing up now.
Just got a call from a Huttons agent. They started queuing up at the showflat liao. Thur supposed to be the preview for ex residents.
Seems like no need to build showflat liao. Anyhow put up a model of the development by roadside can sell already.
Ever wondered why is there is need for an agent if people are queueing to provide blank cheques:doh:
jesmineang
22-09-09, 17:11
queue started already...
Seems like no need to build showflat liao. Anyhow put up a model of the development by roadside can sell already.
Ever wondered why is there is need for an agent if people are queueing to provide blank cheques:doh:
Till the day all developers start to accept cheques directly. :D
Allthepies
22-09-09, 20:56
anybody knows wat is the flooring for living/bedroom?
queue started already...
How long the Q now? :confused: Singaporean really like to do what other people do.
Rush Rush Rush before it sold out.....
Cheap Cheap Cheap before price increase....
Buy Buy Buy before they say bye bye.....
Anyway, buy within your affordability.....
Good Luck.....
Hundred Trees can also mean 1000 mosquitoes? Good luck to the low level units.
jesmineang
23-09-09, 10:55
How long the Q now? :confused: Singaporean really like to do what other people do.
Q dispersed cos think developer dont want to accept the chq and will not acknowledge the q
bargain hunter
23-09-09, 11:01
seems like this kind of queuing only happens to CDL/Hong Leong developments like Optima on the other side of the island and Hundred Trees here. Maybe they self directed, put up a show for everyone to see only? This kind of tactics by a major developer to create a hoo-ha. Shame on them!
Q dispersed cos think developer dont want to accept the chq and will not acknowledge the q
Squall8888
23-09-09, 11:42
Maybe it is real demand? Don't forget interlace sold a number of units as well over the weekend.
bargain hunter
23-09-09, 11:44
don't worry, this kind of tactics will stimulate demand even if there wasn't so much demand before. :D it worked for optima, headline creating. sure sell out!
Maybe it is real demand? Don't forget interlace sold a number of units as well over the weekend.
don't worry, this kind of tactics will stimulate demand even if there wasn't so much demand before. :D it worked for optima, headline creating. sure sell out!
Heh heh ... never heard of successful subsale of Optima yet. Optima owners heart sinking already when Trevista low floors only at 850psf. Singaporeans easily fallen into this kind of "long q must be good" marketing trap - Mc Donald Hello Kitty syncdrome.
bargain hunter
23-09-09, 13:33
but if its really a stunt by CDL then its a real shame.
Heh heh ... never heard of successful subsale of Optima yet. Optima owners heart sinking already when Trevista low floors only at 850psf. Singaporeans easily fallen into this kind of "long q must be good" marketing trap - Mc Donald Hello Kitty syncdrome.
Squall8888
23-09-09, 14:48
Are you in denial? 56 subsales in Aug 2009. One month already 20% of 297 units subsale. Somemore Aug haven't end yet. Maybe can hit 70-80. There are serious demands for housing. Go URA to see for yourself instead of cheap talks without facts.
Heh heh ... never heard of successful subsale of Optima yet. Optima owners heart sinking already when Trevista low floors only at 850psf. Singaporeans easily fallen into this kind of "long q must be good" marketing trap - Mc Donald Hello Kitty syncdrome.
but if its really a stunt by CDL then its a real shame.
My agent called me this morning. They resorting to Balloting just like the Optima. Same trick to kill the queue at Optima they applying at CHI BA A CHEW ZHANG also :p
Balloting results will be out on Friday morning. Then after that unsold units are open to public for sale.
I going after lunch on Friday to cc look look. :D
Get your facts right...Optima 3br high floors under 800psf, Trevista low floors 850psf. Whose hearts sink deeper? When optima launched at avg 810psf, we all said these ppl seow paid so high. Now all subsequent new launches all above 1000psf liao. Who gets the last laugh? time will tell lor....
Heh heh ... never heard of successful subsale of Optima yet. Optima owners heart sinking already when Trevista low floors only at 850psf. Singaporeans easily fallen into this kind of "long q must be good" marketing trap - Mc Donald Hello Kitty syncdrome.
Squall8888
23-09-09, 15:23
You think those 56 subsales didn't earn a cent? They are laughing all the way to the bank. Anyway, there is no point arguing also. Those who dun buy, then if prices rocket up, don't regret. Blame yourself and not the Government. Those who blame the Government for the high COV are really losers. This is as good as saying "I am not good at earning money but I want to stay in prime area near MRT. I no money to pay COV but I die die must stay there. It's your fault for not keeping the market in check but it is not my fault for not buying 6 months ago". These group of people are the real losers.
Get your facts right...Optima 3br high floors under 800psf, Trevista low floors 850psf. Whose hearts sink deeper? When optima launched at avg 810psf, we all said these ppl seow paid so high. Now all subsequent new launches all above 1000psf liao. Who gets the last laugh? time will tell lor....
You think those 56 subsales didn't earn a cent? They are laughing all the way to the bank. Anyway, there is no point arguing also. Those who dun buy, then if prices rocket up, don't regret. Blame yourself and not the Government. Those who blame the Government for the high COV are really losers. This is as good as saying "I am not good at earning money but I want to stay in prime area near MRT. I no money to pay COV but I die die must stay there. It's your fault for not keeping the market in check but it is not my fault for not buying 6 months ago". These group of people are the real losers.
Wahaha.. ur comments sounds super bullish.. though i did kick the wall for not buying 6 mths back but I did not blame the gov.. I blame on kiasuism :)
Alot of ppl dun dare to buy and keep saying ppl stupid queue to buy at such high price. But when prices start going higher and higher until beyond their reach. These sourgrapes will start to blame govt, blame everyone else but themselves.
You think those 56 subsales didn't earn a cent? They are laughing all the way to the bank. Anyway, there is no point arguing also. Those who dun buy, then if prices rocket up, don't regret. Blame yourself and not the Government. Those who blame the Government for the high COV are really losers. This is as good as saying "I am not good at earning money but I want to stay in prime area near MRT. I no money to pay COV but I die die must stay there. It's your fault for not keeping the market in check but it is not my fault for not buying 6 months ago". These group of people are the real losers.
Alot of ppl dun dare to buy and keep saying ppl stupid queue to buy at such high price. But when prices start going higher and higher until beyond their reach. These sourgrapes will start to blame govt, blame everyone else but themselves.
Why only talk price increase? There are also instances ppl que and buy and later prices go down lose money, those on the sides laugh and laugh.......luck is luck, don't call ppl sour grapes.
Squall8888
23-09-09, 16:40
Got luck one meh? The most is 10-20%. Shouldn't a home buyer study the market condition and future potential when evaluating a purchase? If blindly go into 2007 peak and lose money, then blame himself/herself lor. If 2009 bottom go in, then maybe he/she has done enough market research to say - this is low enough, i will go in. But right now, people know prices are going up and of course, people talk about prices going up. IR is going to be ready soon. MBFC as well. All in Q1. So the market condition points up, bearing any unforeseen circumstances (or luck if you want to call it). The thing is, can the market digest so many good news at one go? LVS IR, Sentosa IR, MBFC etc. Don't forget the indirect effects of IR. Rental will be tighter as well. That is when speculation comes in. That is also when foreign funds come in. This is my analysis. If you think otherwise, then you wait lor. But when prices hit pass 2007 peak, blame yourself.
One thing to note is also - in 2007, the peak starts from Orchard & Marina and city areas like Tg. Pagar. Prices shoot up like no tomorrow, records after records. Now, Orchard has hit pass 4k psf. Marina bay is nearing 3k psf. If people want to wait, then wait lor. The ripple effects are felt within 2-4 months in 2007. When Orchard hits 5k psf, then maybe people wake up?
Why only talk price increase? There are also instances ppl que and buy and later prices go down lose money, those on the sides laugh and laugh.......luck is luck, don't call ppl sour grapes.
Squall8888
23-09-09, 16:41
Well.. It's a fact. If wait for investors to come in, no need to buy liao.. Orchard already 4k+ psf. Wait somemore, 5k psf.
Wahaha.. ur comments sounds super bullish.. though i did kick the wall for not buying 6 mths back but I did not blame the gov.. I blame on kiasuism :)
Got luck one meh? The most is 10-20%. Shouldn't a home buyer study the market condition and future potential when evaluating a purchase? If blindly go into 2007 peak and lose money, then blame himself/herself lor. If 2009 bottom go in, then maybe he/she has done enough market research to say - this is low enough, i will go in. But right now, people know prices are going up and of course, people talk about prices going up. IR is going to be ready soon. MBFC as well. All in Q1. So the market condition points up, bearing any unforeseen circumstances (or luck if you want to call it). The thing is, can the market digest so many good news at one go? LVS IR, Sentosa IR, MBFC etc. Don't forget the indirect effects of IR. Rental will be tighter as well. That is when speculation comes in. That is also when foreign funds come in. This is my analysis. If you think otherwise, then you wait lor. But when prices hit pass 2007 peak, blame yourself.
One thing to note is also - in 2007, the peak starts from Orchard & Marina and city areas like Tg. Pagar. Prices shoot up like no tomorrow, records after records. Now, Orchard has hit pass 4k psf. Marina bay is nearing 3k psf. If people want to wait, then wait lor. The ripple effects are felt within 2-4 months in 2007. When Orchard hits 5k psf, then maybe people wake up?
You talk so big, like know where the bottom is and where is the top. I also expect the IR to boost property market, you may click on my previous postings, but I dare not be as cock sure as you. BTW tell me which project to buy in now? let us all know.
yes price either go up or come down....no where else to go. ppl who paid high price and later lose money when price falls will only kick themselves for bad investment. But there are a lot of ppl who die die must buy condo and blame govt for not keeping price down. The bottom line is doesnt matter high or low...can afford means can afford. if can't afford just stay in hdb lor...hdb nowadays also quite nice what. In fact some condos also look like hdb. Not that i want to call ppl sour grapes...when prices are low they dun buy, when price creeping up they say why ppl like to queue and pay high price. :doh:
Why only talk price increase? There are also instances ppl que and buy and later prices go down lose money, those on the sides laugh and laugh.......luck is luck, don't call ppl sour grapes.
"I am not good at earning money but I want to stay in prime area near MRT. I no money to pay COV but I die die must stay there. It's your fault for not keeping the market in check but it is not my fault for not buying 6 months ago". These group of people are the real losers.
Why can afford to stay in prime area still need to use MRT? :confused:
Since when buy properties must pay COV? :confused:
The banks' valuers will value whatever you want it to be worth, if they want your business.
i think now might not be the right time to go in. the price has beening climbing too fast. maybe is worth while to wait a while to let the market to cool down and do some minor correction. is right to say that the price will not come down but should allow some market correction to cool down the price........cheers
Q dispersed cos think developer dont want to accept the chq and will not acknowledge the q
If the developer price it below what sub-sales for The Parc Condo (probably about $850psf) is asking, then it is really worth buying.
If not, shoud just go for Carabelle which is priced lower.
Dont understand why people so willing to part with their cheque without even know the psf of 100 Trees:doh:
If the developer price it below what sub-sales for The Parc Condo (probably about $850psf) is asking, then it is really worth buying.
If not, shoud just go for Carabelle which is priced lower.
Dont understand why people so willing to part with their cheque without even know the psf of 100 Trees:doh:
now property so hot why would developer price below other completed projects. the blank check submission is no obligations.. u dun like the price u dun buy.. it is for securing a queue number and priority booking if one is keen to make the purchase
Nowadays chqs are like entrance tickets to VIP preview, flash your chq u become their VIP haha. After going in and u think u dun like what u see or u find that px too high and decide not to buy, u just void the chq lor. Its like paying 20c for entrance tix :D Dun think anyone will sign on the dotted line without knowing how much he's paying lah.
If the developer price it below what sub-sales for The Parc Condo (probably about $850psf) is asking, then it is really worth buying.
If not, shoud just go for Carabelle which is priced lower.
Dont understand why people so willing to part with their cheque without even know the psf of 100 Trees:doh:
Why can afford to stay in prime area still need to use MRT? :confused:
Since when buy properties must pay COV? :confused:
I think squal meant HDB lah. 6month ago ppl complain COV too high. now even higher, so complain some more. pretty much the same complaint abt why mass market price so high, "out of reach", etc.
squal's post very interesting. :) very direct, strong, full of "impact". We here are more politically correct and try not to say things like "sour grapes" :) you have to remember, some of ppl in this forum are very young, probably doing their 1st pty investment, or who had been badly burned last time. It's natural trying to be prudent. Although experience actually shows newbies usually enter the market the last, almost always at near peak. (because wait too long). 1st mover advantage is usually for the more experienced. I told a friend of mine to commit a unit at twin regency in April. but he thought price can still drop some more. Now he regrets like mad. And I every day go tease him :). That's not even for investment. That's for his home stay.
Squall8888
23-09-09, 22:45
I stay HDB. Still my favorite. I am working for a property company and have seen 3 property cycles.
You talk so big, like know where the bottom is and where is the top. I also expect the IR to boost property market, you may click on my previous postings, but I dare not be as cock sure as you. BTW tell me which project to buy in now? let us all know.
Allthepies
23-09-09, 22:54
Well.. It's a fact. If wait for investors to come in, no need to buy liao.. Orchard already 4k+ psf. Wait somemore, 5k psf.
i tot someone just lost $5million in super prime subsale orchard st. regis? :D
Squall8888
23-09-09, 22:55
Some HDB buyers are just ridiculously demanding. That is why the high COV. Buying properties, be it HDB or private, have to pay COV depending on the price. For HDB, clear cut. Pegged to the valuation report. For private, depends which bank you go to. The differences can be a lot for 2 different bank. So whatever the bank value the house, that is the valuation. And banks don't really value whatever price you want it to be. That will be a scam to get low interest loan. Some banks stick to one valuers but some will get average and some will get the highest valuation. But there is no such thing as matching valuation to your buying price.
Don't believe me, call up any bankers, ask if they can match $5000 psf for regency suite.
I am extremely bullish because one key factor. This might be something which you guys are not aware of. Rental yield. Rental has recovered 20-30% for prime locations for certain key projects. Believe it or not, it's up to you all. Buyers have to make a call. For city fringe, rental is stagnant or started to go up. Suburban, wait long long.
So if a buyers wait until this news is out, then fight again? Surely genuine buyers do not want this to happen. As a buyer, do some homework. Call and ask the rental for key projects and you know what I am talking about. I am sure agents will know about this sudden surge in rental.
At the end of the day, buyers should make the call and evaluate your purchase. Like it or not, property has a cycle. There is nothing call all the way up but one thing for sure, the next high will be higher than 2007 high. The next low will be higher than 2009 low.
Why can afford to stay in prime area still need to use MRT? :confused:
Since when buy properties must pay COV? :confused:
The banks' valuers will value whatever you want it to be worth, if they want your business.
I am extremely bullish because one key factor. This might be something which you guys are not aware of. Rental yield. Rental has recovered 20-30% for prime locations for certain key projects. Believe it or not, it's up to you all. Buyers have to make a call. For city fringe, rental is stagnant or started to go up. Suburban, wait long long.
You mentioned that rental are starting to creep up, I suppose you are referring to only a handful of developments
But with the supply still rather overwhelming.. it is not fair to say that rental yield are increasing on the whole.. and if that is the case being extremely bullish might be alittle to optimistic as the situation as it is now is more incline towards market sentiment together with seemingly positive news of economy recovery rather than demand-supply espeically in the prime areas.
I stay HDB. Still my favorite. I am working for a property company and have seen 3 property cycles.
I see, so you may have some knowledge but it appears to be in hindsight only. If you really can predict highs and lows like you claim, you would not still be in HDB. I too am no spring chicken with property and I have probably seen more cycles than you, but really it is all about timing and lots of luck.
I see, so you may have some knowledge but it appears to be in hindsight only. If you really can predict highs and lows like you claim, you would not still be in HDB. I too am no spring chicken with property and I have probably seen more cycles than you, but really it is all about timing and lots of luck.
Right xebay11, there is no guru or expert or fortune teller or even GOD in this forum.
Is all about timing and luck
No special skill needed
If do not have much money.....please buy with care....
Remember don't greed....
There is a Chinese saying " greed will turn to poor "
I think squal meant HDB lah. 6month ago ppl complain COV too high. now even higher, so complain some more. pretty much the same complaint abt why mass market price so high, "out of reach", etc.
I can empathise with the unhappiness over rising prices, but I cannot empathise with the complaints.
I was also hoping that this recession would bring Good Class Bungalows to below $5 million but now that the market has flown away, I just say bye bye to my dream and know my place. :scared-3:
Can you imagine if I write this to the press:
Problem with GCBs is Limited Supply
The government should immediately act to rein in the Good Class Bungalow market as prices had risen ridiculously. A 30,000 sqft bungalow in Cluny Hill which used to cost only $20,000 before the War is now worth 20,000,000! an increase of one thousand times! Income had not risen this much percentage wise, hence affordability has decreased!
The reason behind this problem is limited supply! There are only 2,500 and the number had not increase. The government should release more land for GCBs so that more people can realise their aspirations.
But there is no such thing as matching valuation to your buying price. Don't believe me, call up any bankers, ask if they can match $5000 psf for regency suite.
True lah ... I don't mean by so much difference.
From my encounters so far, they are very "flexible". :p
thomastansb
24-09-09, 02:12
Yah. That cock bought near peak and sell at 2009 low. Q1 I mean. If he/she had sell it now, probably profit 10 million?
i tot someone just lost $5million in super prime subsale orchard st. regis? :D
thomastansb
24-09-09, 02:16
I think only those prime locations but it does sound similar to 2007. Maybe a repeat of 2007? Remember rental hit record high in Icon first? Follow by Orchard? Then Citylights also another champion. 4k for studio I remember. That was the start of the ridiculous rally.
You mentioned that rental are starting to creep up, I suppose you are referring to only a handful of developments
But with the supply still rather overwhelming.. it is not fair to say that rental yield are increasing on the whole.. and if that is the case being extremely bullish might be alittle to optimistic as the situation as it is now is more incline towards market sentiment together with seemingly positive news of economy recovery rather than demand-supply espeically in the prime areas.
thomastansb
24-09-09, 02:18
He mentioned he likes HDB and I myself don't really believe much in luck as well. It's market research. I can't be buying at Q4 2007 and still believe there is much to go? I mean recession at that point of time so why should I buy? That is market research, not luck. And some brains as well.
I see, so you may have some knowledge but it appears to be in hindsight only. If you really can predict highs and lows like you claim, you would not still be in HDB. I too am no spring chicken with property and I have probably seen more cycles than you, but really it is all about timing and lots of luck.
He mentioned he likes HDB and I myself don't really believe much in luck as well. It's market research. I can't be buying at Q4 2007 and still believe there is much to go? I mean recession at that point of time so why should I buy? That is market research, not luck. And some brains as well.
There is only so much you can do with market research, you may have all the historical data, but where does it go from here? You tell me about prices in Q4 2007, that is hindsight again, nothing to tell me that you are savy, what have you invested in and made a killing, tell us why you made that decision, how intelligent was the decision you made? Translate that to today's market. I believe no two cycles, locations and properties are the same, there are just too many variables.
OK now is Q4 2009 prices (to me) are very high, will it go higher? When? Lower? When? Can you tell me where prices will go from now? Also which potential project is likely to make? I waiting with money to invest, can you tell me? I am open to your wisdom.
Squall8888
24-09-09, 09:50
I think what he said is buy low, sell high. No one will know when is the low of low or when is the high of high. But once it drop considerably, it is low though not necessarily lowest. Now is still low although the rally has started 6 months ago.
Anyway, you miss the boat and want property prices to go back to March is it? Don't think it is going to happen soon unless a major disaster or crisis happen but now, is still low enough. If not, maybe you wait until IR completed then you buy lor. That is if you think prices will go down after IR completes (two IRs) and MBFC opens. No one can say you are wrong but if you totally miss the boat, don't kick yourself :):)
There is only so much you can do with market research, you may have all the historical data, but where does it go from here? You tell me about prices in Q4 2007, that is hindsight again, nothing to tell me that you are savy, what have you invested in and made a killing, tell us why you made that decision, how intelligent was the decision you made? Translate that to today's market. I believe no two cycles, locations and properties are the same, there are just too many variables.
OK now is Q4 2009 prices (to me) are very high, will it go higher? When? Lower? When? Can you tell me where prices will go from now? Also which potential project is likely to make? I waiting with money to invest, can you tell me? I am open to your wisdom.
I think what he said is buy low, sell high. No one will know when is the low of low or when is the high of high. But once it drop considerably, it is low though not necessarily lowest. Now is still low although the rally has started 6 months ago.
Anyway, you miss the boat and want property prices to go back to March is it? Don't think it is going to happen soon unless a major disaster or crisis happen but now, is still low enough. If not, maybe you wait until IR completed then you buy lor. That is if you think prices will go down after IR completes (two IRs) and MBFC opens. No one can say you are wrong but if you totally miss the boat, don't kick yourself :):)
Buy low sell high easy to say, unless there is a clear crash and you have cash on hand, then buy low, but that is still not without risk, if you buy at what you think is low, how do you know it will not go lower? and when it does recover how do you make sure it recovers to a level above what you bought? So isn't luck a factor? Why prices go down after IR completes?
What missed the boat? My strategy is simple, buy FH, landed and good location for self stay, there is no more sound strategy than this. In such cases, no luck involved. But how many can do that?
The way I look at it, Singapore even with 6 million, wlll never be shortage of highrise dwellings, no space? just enbloc or SERS, so prices will never be like HK. Also these days developers are smart, they price in all rental returns and future capital gains into their selling prices, so flipping becomes more risky. As long as developer is on top of the food chain, the bottom can never expect to make sure wins.
Some HDB buyers are just ridiculously demanding. That is why the high COV. Buying properties, be it HDB or private, have to pay COV depending on the price. For HDB, clear cut. Pegged to the valuation report. For private, depends which bank you go to. The differences can be a lot for 2 different bank. So whatever the bank value the house, that is the valuation. And banks don't really value whatever price you want it to be. That will be a scam to get low interest loan. Some banks stick to one valuers but some will get average and some will get the highest valuation. But there is no such thing as matching valuation to your buying price.
Don't believe me, call up any bankers, ask if they can match $5000 psf for regency suite.
I am extremely bullish because one key factor. This might be something which you guys are not aware of. Rental yield. Rental has recovered 20-30% for prime locations for certain key projects. Believe it or not, it's up to you all. Buyers have to make a call. For city fringe, rental is stagnant or started to go up. Suburban, wait long long.
So if a buyers wait until this news is out, then fight again? Surely genuine buyers do not want this to happen. As a buyer, do some homework. Call and ask the rental for key projects and you know what I am talking about. I am sure agents will know about this sudden surge in rental.
At the end of the day, buyers should make the call and evaluate your purchase. Like it or not, property has a cycle. There is nothing call all the way up but one thing for sure, the next high will be higher than 2007 high. The next low will be higher than 2009 low.
Squall
u seem to be quite expert in property. any comment on caspian? seems like a hot project. is it worthwhile invest in caspian. the price has since increase by about 14%.....do u think caspian can go up to $900psf in future? please advise......:beats-me-man:
Squall8888
24-09-09, 10:16
I am sure there are some who buy Q1 this year and sold them off. Anyway, my stance is clear and firm. Property prices are going up, like it or not. Just see property news these 2 months and you will know. Freehold theory is crap. It is seriously flawed but it is often used by me (and many others) to cheat people. Just do a comparison between these 2 properties. Mirage Tower (near Orchard) vs Ardmore. It's location and not LH/FH.
Buy low sell high easy to say, unless there is a clear crash and you have cash on hand, then buy low, but that is still not without risk, if you buy at what you think is low, how do you know it will not go lower? and when it does recover how do you make sure it recovers to a level above what you bought? So isn't luck a factor? Why prices go down after IR completes?
What missed the boat? My strategy is simple, buy FH, landed and good location for self stay, there is no more sound strategy than this. In such cases, no luck involved. But how many can do that?
The way I look at it, Singapore even with 6 million, wlll never be shortage of highrise dwellings, no space? just enbloc or SERS, so prices will never be like HK. Also these days developers are smart, they price in all rental returns and future capital gains into their selling prices, so flipping becomes more risky. As long as developer is on top of the food chain, the bottom can never expect to make sure wins.
Squall8888
24-09-09, 10:38
Long term - Yes. Near MRT and beside future secondary business district.
I am sure Caspian can go up to 1000psf but when? 2 years? 10 years or 30 years? In the long run, property will appreciate. Don't be fooled by LH vs FH theory. It has been proven time and time and again that location is the main factor for property prices. LH/FH, it doesn't even affect anything.
So back to Caspian, do you mind waiting a long time? If I were you, I will place my $ in city or near city. Appreciate faster when the upturn comes and prices for prime areas are still 20% off the last peak compared to suburban which is already nearing the last peak. Take a look at Citylights, southbank, metropolitan, regency suites, one jervois, domain 21. These projects will have better potential to outperform Caspian. Unless you want to hold until 2016 when the Jurong business district is completed, then go for prime location, NOW! We know upturn don't wait for people. Although some people might say when IR and MBFC comes, property prices will drop. You make the call and think for yourself - is that reasonable? Do you actually believe property prices will drop when IR and MBFC is up? If you can't convince yourself to that theory, then you stick to your own theory. Another fact - next year, there will be a serious shortage of properties. 2011, don't know yet.
Squall
u seem to be quite expert in property. any comment on caspian? seems like a hot project. is it worthwhile invest in caspian. the price has since increase by about 14%.....do u think caspian can go up to $900psf in future? please advise......:beats-me-man:
I am sure there are some who buy Q1 this year and sold them off. Anyway, my stance is clear and firm. Property prices are going up, like it or not. Just see property news these 2 months and you will know. Freehold theory is crap. It is seriously flawed but it is often used by me (and many others) to cheat people. Just do a comparison between these 2 properties. Mirage Tower (near Orchard) vs Ardmore. It's location and not LH/FH.
Wow you are such an expert, property prices are going up, yes only because developers are pricing them up, they dictate prices for now, but price rises can keep rising for how long? Who has the money to pay for these higher prices?
Freehold theory is crap, yes developers are offloading many LH even higher than FH prices, but in the long run, as end buyers FH is important, as flippers, location is important not whether LH or FH. You fail to make a distinction there, so I wonder how professional are you really. I guess since you are HDB dweller, you fail to take your comparison of Mirage Tower and Ardmore in the long run to see the difference between FH and LH.
I have seen much differences in the long run to know so. Of course you turn around and say there is potential for LH to enbloc, but isn't that the same as for FH?
Also are you willing to bet your life savings on LH that there will be future enbloc? What if your LH location is so good, that the Govt refuse to let you top up lease?
Of course you may again turn and say FH land may be acquired by Govt too, but as far as possible, Govt will always choose to acquire LH land first as it is cheaper to do so.
Anyway I have never seen people with money, I mean serious money, actuall want to stay in HDB, and since you stay in HDB just shows that you are simply not a seasoned property player, period. Can say plenty but cannot do.
Long term - Yes. Near MRT and beside future secondary business district.
I am sure Caspian can go up to 1000psf but when? 2 years? 10 years or 30 years? In the long run, property will appreciate. Don't be fooled by LH vs FH theory. It has been proven time and time and again that location is the main factor for property prices. LH/FH, it doesn't even affect anything.
So back to Caspian, do you mind waiting a long time? If I were you, I will place my $ in city or near city. Appreciate faster when the upturn comes and prices for prime areas are still 20% off the last peak compared to suburban which is already nearing the last peak. Take a look at Citylights, southbank, metropolitan, regency suites, one jervois, domain 21. These projects will have better potential to outperform Caspian. Unless you want to hold until 2016 when the Jurong business district is completed, then go for prime location, NOW! We know upturn don't wait for people. Although some people might say when IR and MBFC comes, property prices will drop. You make the call and think for yourself - is that reasonable? Do you actually believe property prices will drop when IR and MBFC is up? If you can't convince yourself to that theory, then you stick to your own theory. Another fact - next year, there will be a serious shortage of properties. 2011, don't know yet.
I fully agree with you next year will be a shortage of property. A lot of hype in the media about over supply but that was news 5 months ago. If you crunch the numbers of the impending oversupply and minus off the units sold for this year so far, you will get the true picture. News paper late to report again.:tongue3: With that in mind, and a lot of other factors that I do not want to start another discussion here, i expect prices to trend up!
On which property to buy based on judgment and not luck. For a quick flip, just buy carebelle NOW and sell when hundred trees launched and 70% sold. My judgement is based on market forces, sentiment, overview of property market trend. Made money successfully on each deal so far, definitely not based on luck. Caveat Emptor.
Allthepies
24-09-09, 11:07
wa everyone cool down :D this is the thread on Hundred Trees :D
heard today is the preview for ex-residents, anyone knows how the response like?
Long term - Yes. Near MRT and beside future secondary business district.
I am sure Caspian can go up to 1000psf but when? 2 years? 10 years or 30 years? In the long run, property will appreciate. Don't be fooled by LH vs FH theory. It has been proven time and time and again that location is the main factor for property prices. LH/FH, it doesn't even affect anything.
So back to Caspian, do you mind waiting a long time? If I were you, I will place my $ in city or near city. Appreciate faster when the upturn comes and prices for prime areas are still 20% off the last peak compared to suburban which is already nearing the last peak. Take a look at Citylights, southbank, metropolitan, regency suites, one jervois, domain 21. These projects will have better potential to outperform Caspian. Unless you want to hold until 2016 when the Jurong business district is completed, then go for prime location, NOW! We know upturn don't wait for people. Although some people might say when IR and MBFC comes, property prices will drop. You make the call and think for yourself - is that reasonable? Do you actually believe property prices will drop when IR and MBFC is up? If you can't convince yourself to that theory, then you stick to your own theory. Another fact - next year, there will be a serious shortage of properties. 2011, don't know yet.
Again you never compare apple to apple, you seem to take FH bad location VS LH good location. Geez. What if FH also good location vs LH good location.
Why take example of historical data like Citylights, southbank, metropolitan, regency suites, one jervois, domain 21? these were priced reasonably, look at Concourse Skyline and other prime development asking prices now, big difference from past projects, so can swallow?
Of course city projects will outperform Jurong projects, this is no brainer but with high asking prices, risk also greater.....so LPPL for investor, have you asked ay123 what is his appetite for risk and how deep is his pocket? Without knowing this, you are just sprouting theory from text book and not practical experience, which is dangerous for small investors, as it may wipe out people's entire CPF savings.
Another fact - next year, there will be a serious shortage of properties. 2011, don't know yet.
Don't know yet and you call it a fact? If you are indeed correct, explain why? What properties are in shortage? HDB or Private? Statistics?
Squall8888
24-09-09, 11:18
You seems to be harping on the fact that I stay HDB. Just take it that HDB dwellers are dumb, poor, stupid and ignorant then :) Not forgetting, HDB dwellers cannot own private, cannot invest because they are probably too stupid and poor to invest. You are the almighty who stay private because as when you claimed, only those who stay private knows the market. And only those with serious money stay private.
Wow you are such an expert, property prices are going up, yes only because developers are pricing them up, they dictate prices for now, but price rises can keep rising for how long? Who has the money to pay for these higher prices?
Freehold theory is crap, yes developers are offloading many LH even higher than FH prices, but in the long run, as end buyers FH is important, as flippers, location is important not whether LH or FH. You fail to make a distinction there, so I wonder how professional are you really. I guess since you are HDB dweller, you fail to take your comparison of Mirage Tower and Ardmore in the long run to see the difference between FH and LH.
I have seen much differences in the long run to know so. Of course you turn around and say there is potential for LH to enbloc, but isn't that the same as for FH?
Also are you willing to bet your life savings on LH that there will be future enbloc? What if your LH location is so good, that the Govt refuse to let you top up lease?
Of course you may again turn and say FH land may be acquired by Govt too, but as far as possible, Govt will always choose to acquire LH land first as it is cheaper to do so.
Anyway I have never seen people with money, I mean serious money, actuall want to stay in HDB, and since you stay in HDB just shows that you are simply not a seasoned property player, period. Can say plenty but cannot do.
You seems to be harping on the fact that I stay HDB. Just take it that HDB dwellers are dumb, poor, stupid and ignorant then :) Not forgetting, HDB dwellers cannot own private, cannot invest because they are probably too stupid and poor to invest. You are the almighty who stay private because as when you claimed, only those who stay private knows the market. And only those with serious money stay private.
No not stay HDB means dumb, ignorant, or stupid, come on don't put words into my mouth. My remarks are only directed personally at you, if you want to show examples you must lead by example then you are credible, IMHO all you are sprouting is hindsight information, nothing concrete and I did ask you what to invest in now, no reply, I am open to your ideas, so please share and I will evaluate the soundness of your proposition, as I said I am waiting with cash but personally I feel that market is too high and that there would be a correction soon.
BTW it is not those with serious money stay private, but those with serious money don't stay HDB, there is a difference and if you fail to see it, I am afraid nothing can help you.
Squall8888
24-09-09, 11:26
Then if you think market is going down, don't buy now lor. You go buy 6 months later. I am just sharing what I have now. The actual statistics I am holding now. I never say I am good. I just say whatever facts I have now.
ay123 said he wants to invest. To me, invest = making money.
Again you never compare apple to apple, you seem to take FH bad location VS LH good location. Geez. What if FH also good location vs LH good location.
Why take example of historical data like Citylights, southbank, metropolitan, regency suites, one jervois, domain 21? these were priced reasonably, look at Concourse Skyline and other prime development asking prices now, big difference from past projects, so can swallow?
Of course city projects will outperform Jurong projects, this is no brainer but with high asking prices, risk also greater.....so LPPL for investor, have you asked ay123 what is his appetite for risk and how deep is his pocket? Without knowing this, you are just sprouting theory from text book and not practical experience, which is dangerous for small investors, as it may wipe out people's entire CPF savings.
Don't know yet and you call it a fact? If you are indeed correct, explain why? What properties are in shortage? HDB or Private? Statistics?
Squall8888
24-09-09, 11:28
Did I put words in your mouth?
"I guess since you are HDB dweller, you fail to take your comparison of Mirage Tower and Ardmore in the long run to see the difference between FH and LH"
"Anyway I have never seen people with money, I mean serious money, actuall want to stay in HDB, and since you stay in HDB just shows that you are simply not a seasoned property player, period. Can say plenty but cannot do."
No not stay HDB means dumb, ignorant, or stupid, come on don't put words into my mouth. My remarks are only directed personally at you, if you want to show examples you must lead by example then you are credible, IMHO all you are sprouting is hindsight information, nothing concrete and I did ask you what to invest in now, no reply, I am open to your ideas, so please share and I will evaluate the soundness of your proposition, as I said I am waiting with cash but personally I feel that market is too high and that there would be a correction soon.
Did I put words in your mouth?
"I guess since you are HDB dweller, you fail to take your comparison of Mirage Tower and Ardmore in the long run to see the difference between FH and LH"
"Anyway I have never seen people with money, I mean serious money, actuall want to stay in HDB, and since you stay in HDB just shows that you are simply not a seasoned property player, period. Can say plenty but cannot do."
You added dumb, ignorant and poor, did I say those?
BTW OK just to make it simpler for you to understand. Not all who live in private property are rich, many are margin buyers and may actually be poorer than HDB dwellers, but those who are seriously rich do not stay in HDB, is that clear enough?
My opinion is that those who stay in HDB and rent out private apartments are the smart ones. They sacrifce for the future. When they have accumulated enough wealth, they can easily switch to stay in private and rent out their HDB. They have a choice.
There is no right or wrong in decisions, just what one prefers. higher rental(near mrt - very few freehold ner mrt) or freehold(peace of mind for future generations). Leasehold when the units have 60 years lease will have loan issues from banks and thus hopefully will have en-bloc.
Buying for investment is not all about luck, you also need to do homework and time the market. I agree that in life, luck plays a very important role but homework is equally important. The gov do give hints and we need to pick it up.
Personally feel that mass market is very intertwined with hdb and if hdb continues to move up, the mass market condo will move along with it.
There will be situations which are beyond control like a amajor pandemic or war, etc... Under those situation, no one can predict and whatever investments you have, it will also be affected.
I fully agree with you next year will be a shortage of property. A lot of hype in the media about over supply but that was news 5 months ago. If you crunch the numbers of the impending oversupply and minus off the units sold for this year so far, you will get the true picture. News paper late to report again.:tongue3: With that in mind, and a lot of other factors that I do not want to start another discussion here, i expect prices to trend up!
On which property to buy based on judgment and not luck. For a quick flip, just buy carebelle NOW and sell when hundred trees launched and 70% sold. My judgement is based on market forces, sentiment, overview of property market trend. Made money successfully on each deal so far, definitely not based on luck. Caveat Emptor.
Maybe newspaper actually know about it?
Perhaps we should give them benefit of doubt?
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/common/mast_home.gif
Next year may not see oversupply of homes
Melissa Tan
The Straits Times
Monday, 27 July 2009
http://www.asiaone.com/A1MEDIA/business/07Jul09/images/20090727.110403_over.jpg
Glut? What glut? Fears of an oversupply of private homes next year have eased - in fact there could even be a shortage.
The Urban Redevelopment Authority's (URA) second quarter real estate statistics, released yesterday, suggest any potential oversupply has been pushed back to 2011 or even later as private property developers delay and cut down on projects.
The number of private homes slated for completion for the whole of next year has fallen sharply to just 5,394.
That is down about 70% from an estimated 17,454 early last year at the height of the last boom.
Just as developers have cut back on building, home buying has shot back up to boom-time levels.
For the past three months, more than 1,000 private homes have been sold each month. An average of 8,000 private homes have been sold each year since 2000.
This means that private home prices and rents could rise next year, as the supply of private property units in 2010 may not meet demand, especially if the current strong sales streak keeps up.
Caveats apply, of course, market watchers say. URA's statistics rely on figures that developers have provided, and dramatic changes from quarter to quarter have occurred before.
Also, the number of completed units could differ from the number sold, as developers could sell uncompleted units or be unable to sell completed units.
According to URA statistics, during the last boom in 2007 and last year, developers - confident that people would snap up private homes - obtained licences to sell 11,150 private homes set to be finished this year, and 9,188 homes in 2010.
But the collapse of Lehman Brothers last September and the resulting recession triggered fears last year that there would be too many private homes on the market next year amid an economic slowdown.
Concerned that units would not sell, developers have since slashed some projects and pushed back the completion dates of others. As a result, URA's figure for the total planned units slated for completion this year and beyond has fallen by 6,000 - from over 68,000 in the first quarter of 2008 to the current 62,350.
But although almost all of URA's projected completion figures have declined gradually over the period from the third quarter of last year to the first quarter this year, the slide shows signs of having just bottomed out.
In the third quarter of last year it was projected that around 13,400-16,000 units would be completed every year after 2010. This fell to a range of 12,100-13,900 in the fourth quarter and then to 10,900-13,800 last quarter.
Although it still remains below pre-recession levels, this range has risen slightly in the last quarter to 11,200-13,600 units every year from 2011 onwards.
The bulk of project completions has been shifted from next year to 2011 and later, with project completion figures increasing by an average of 350 for each year from last quarter's figures.
To date, 5,158 private units have been finished in the first half of this year, and URA expects 1,051 more units to be ready within the next six months.
thomastansb
24-09-09, 11:41
Me? I am just a small player lah. Just see my previous posts lor.
I bought one studio unit at Sail in March 2009. One more sail studio in April 2009. Need me to elaborate more? Just sold away one studio. Now, guess my profit? :) :) Since you like facts so much, see my previous posts. I think that should be quite convincing.
Also, what makes you think stay HDB are losers? Dog eyes?
Anyway, sqall is spot on about the rental. Can you imagine, the rental is so tempting that I might not stay at the sail after all? It is at least 30% increase from my previous tenant. After paying my monthly installment, I can even stop working and enjoy the rent now. And so is citylights. Got a friend who 100% own a unit there (no bank loan) just for investment sake. Just rented out 3.3k. That is almost $6 psf rental ($5.89 to be exact) :scared-4: :scared-4: That is how scary the market is.
LH and 99 years. To me, location is king. Just look at the sail. Left 93 years but who give a shit :) :) :) :)
There is only so much you can do with market research, you may have all the historical data, but where does it go from here? You tell me about prices in Q4 2007, that is hindsight again, nothing to tell me that you are savy, what have you invested in and made a killing, tell us why you made that decision, how intelligent was the decision you made? Translate that to today's market. I believe no two cycles, locations and properties are the same, there are just too many variables.
OK now is Q4 2009 prices (to me) are very high, will it go higher? When? Lower? When? Can you tell me where prices will go from now? Also which potential project is likely to make? I waiting with money to invest, can you tell me? I am open to your wisdom.
My opinion is that those who stay in HDB and rent out private apartments are the smart ones. They sacrifce for the future. When they have accumulated enough wealth, they can easily switch to stay in private and rent out their HDB. They have a choice.
There is no right or wrong in decisions, just what one prefers. higher rental(near mrt - very few freehold ner mrt) or freehold(peace of mind for future generations). Leasehold when the units have 60 years lease will have loan issues from banks and thus hopefully will have en-bloc.
Buying for investment is not all about luck, you also need to do homework and time the market. I agree that in life, luck plays a very important role but homework is equally important. The gov do give hints and we need to pick it up.
Personally feel that mass market is very intertwined with hdb and if hdb continues to move up, the mass market condo will move along with it.
There will be situations which are beyond control like a amajor pandemic or war, etc... Under those situation, no one can predict and whatever investments you have, it will also be affected.
Nobody disputes the value of doing your homework but that has limited value in making investments.
Mass market moves in tandem with HDB true, but don't you feel that mass market is now way over the top compared to HDB? So it is time to slow down and catch your breath. So your statement may be true but just not now, there will be some lag, so if you read the cards right you can invest at the correct price point.
Compare with historical data when mass market condos can easily be got for $600k and later HDBs rose to about $500 to $600k too, I was laughing at those who took the bait, but it took about one or two years for ppl to realise that HDB condo like is still far cry from true condo, that caused the mad rush earlier this year 2009 and hence the mad increases we see now.
Squall8888
24-09-09, 11:46
Luckily I am not seriously rich. If not, I can't even get to stay at my favourite estate anymore.
You added dumb, ignorant and poor, did I say those?
BTW OK just to make it simpler for you to understand. Not all who live in private property are rich, many are margin buyers and may actually be poorer than HDB dwellers, but those who are seriously rich do not stay in HDB, is that clear enough?
moneyspinner
24-09-09, 11:46
Wow, Squall, you talk sense. I am looking at VIVA. Is this a good bet??
Me? I am just a small player lah. Just see my previous posts lor.
I bought one studio unit at Sail in March 2009. One more sail studio in April 2009. Need me to elaborate more? Just sold away one studio. Now, guess my profit? :) :) Since you like facts so much, see my previous posts. I think that should be quite convincing.
Also, what makes you think stay HDB are losers? Dog eyes?
Anyway, sqall is spot on about the rental. Can you imagine, the rental is so tempting that I might not stay at the sail after all? It is at least 30% increase from my previous tenant. After paying my monthly installment, I can even stop working and enjoy the rent now. And so is citylights. Got a friend who 100% own a unit there (no bank loan) just for investment sake. Just rented out 3.3k. That is almost $6 psf rental ($5.89 to be exact) :scared-4: :scared-4: That is how scary the market is.
LH and 99 years. To me, location is king. Just look at the sail. Left 93 years but who give a shit :) :) :) :)
Read my posts carefully, Sail, City lights etc were all reasonably priced, hence you made good money but where do we go from here?
Rental is good only for sometime, when property is new, I am sure you will sell it away after a few years as the property decpreciates.
Again the argument of LH and good location, did you compare long term prices, FH and also good location? For flippers I agree no one gives a shit about tenure.
thomastansb
24-09-09, 11:53
You think limited value?
Do you seriously think I subscribe to property data for nothing? And do you think I buy in March for fun? That is homework and it is reaping profit now. Huge profit. Luck is when there is a terrorist attack and you just bought a property. Luck is when there is a major economic crisis coming and you just bought a property. Though you can't deny it is tough luck but still, you should know market got its cycle. Major crisis around 10 years and mini ones around 3-4 years. This is really common sense. And also, reading the financial data, book value etc.. will give you a head start in stock market. That is homework. No pain, no gain. Unless you tell me, agent ask you to buy a property at whatever price, you also buy. Then i will say you are really rich because you buy without knowing the recent price.
Nobody disputes the value of doing your homework but that has limited value in making investments.
Mass market moves in tandem with HDB true, but don't you feel that mass market is now way over the top compared to HDB? So it is time to slow down and catch your breath. So your statement may be true but just not now, there will be some lag, so if you read the cards right you can invest at the correct price point.
Compare with historical data when mass market condos can easily be got for $600k and later HDBs rose to about $500 to $600k too, I was laughing at those who took the bait, but it took about one or two years for ppl to realise that HDB condo like is still far cry from true condo, that caused the mad rush earlier this year 2009 and hence the mad increases we see now.
You think limited value?
Do you seriously think I subscribe to property data for nothing? And do you think I buy in March for fun? That is homework and it is reaping profit now. Huge profit. Luck is when there is a terrorist attack and you just bought a property. Luck is when there is a major economic crisis coming and you just bought a property. Though you can't deny it is tough luck but still, you should know market got its cycle. Major crisis around 10 years and mini ones around 3-4 years. This is really common sense. And also, reading the financial data, book value etc.. will give you a head start in stock market. That is homework. No pain, no gain. Unless you tell me, agent ask you to buy a property at whatever price, you also buy. Then i will say you are really rich because you buy without knowing the recent price.
No point arguing, you made money. There will be a time when all the study you do may not help you. I wish you all the best.
thomastansb
24-09-09, 12:02
Sail wasn't reasonably priced. It was nearing 4k psf in early 2008. It just drop drastically and once I see asking price and transacted price going up a lot (before URA publish them), I bought a unit. I bought the second one when I see it is going out of hand and luckily for me, I was right.
Central green condo near TB might be old but location is good and so, the great appreciation of prices over the years. So is meraprime and twin regency. Nothing to do with freehold or 99 years. And you said 60 years lease left. How many properties are left with 60 years of lease and below? Bank will lend lesser and shorter period for properties less than 60 years of lease left. But has Government actually taken back any land when lease run out? No one knows.
Read my posts carefully, Sail, City lights etc were all reasonably priced, hence you made good money but where do we go from here?
Rental is good only for sometime, when property is new, I am sure you will sell it away after a few years as the property decpreciates.
Again the argument of LH and good location, did you compare long term prices, FH and also good location? For flippers I agree no one gives a shit about tenure.
thomastansb
24-09-09, 12:05
Thank you.
If I have done all my research and yet, it goes down, then I nothing to say. All I know is I just need to buy at low (no need lowest) and sell at high (no need highest), I will make $.
Remember, pride before fall. HDB stayers are rich fellows. Imagine 20 years ago, how much is a flat? I think some actually make 1000-2000% returns. No one knows how HDB prices will move but I am very sure 20 years later, it will be higher than now.
No point arguing, you made money. There will be a time when all the study you do may not help you. I wish you all the best.
I bought the second one when I see it is going out of hand and luckily for me, I was right.
Which brings me back to my point, all the home work you did was good, I don't dispute that, but in the end it was luck that played the most important role.
All out there who think only data is king, may just ignore my post and go and just buy based on data alone.
If you look at hdb, the rental market currently for 5 room flat is about 2k or so. An equivalent condo is about 1,200sq ft. Assuming 1mil for this condo. Loan of 800k over 30 yrs at 2% translates to about 3k monthly rental. Interest per year - 16K. Rental for this unit is about 3k (50% more than hdb). That works out to 36. Net gain from rental over a year is about 15k (36k-16k-property tax-maintenanace). If you rent it out for 10 years and your property does not appreciate, you still net 150k(15kx10years). Please do all your minor homework... like what if interest rate increase, your loan amount drops along the years, so your interest amount over the yrs drop, etc....
If you have capital gains, then you need to add to the above.
There are a few points that you need work on.
1. do your homework
2. purchase but be prepared for worst case senario.(I have rented out my anchorage at 1.8k per month during crisis period) If I was not able to hold, I would have lost money.
3. Age is not on your side with loan tenure reducing as you age.
4. Time value of money. To my property is a hedging too and all a retirement fund.
Most importantly, go into any investment only if you have done your homework and not based on heresay. Those who purchase on heresay will succumb when crisis hits as they do not know what to do then...
Thank you.
If I have done all my research and yet, it goes down, then I nothing to say. All I know is I just need to buy at low (no need lowest) and sell at high (no need highest), I will make $.
Remember, pride before fall. HDB stayers are rich fellows. Imagine 20 years ago, how much is a flat? I think some actually make 1000-2000% returns. No one knows how HDB prices will move but I am very sure 20 years later, it will be higher than now.
Why pride before the fall? I did make use of HDB to leverage onto private property.
Been reading the past few posts made...
Those who brag that they entered in Mar due to their wisdom... I have only this to say.
"Lucky few at the expanse of sellers, one smart and the other dumb".
However, if you are really smart, you can predict the next collapse.
:D
Been reading the past few posts made...
Those who brag that they entered in Mar due to their wisdom... I have only this to say.
"Lucky few at the expanse of sellers, one smart and the other dumb".
However, if you are really smart, you can predict the next collapse.
I agree with you. So hard to get the seller to accept my march offer. Unfortunately i was not lucky. But it does not take any luck to buy soon after knowing that buyers are flocking back and sellers are reluctant to negotiate lower.
Next collapse will come when the G20 countries unwind the stimulus package to rein in inflation. Before that prices will hit the roof. Stand by for action, like someone said, first mover advantage and how you position yourself for it.:D
stalingrad
24-09-09, 12:52
Been reading the past few posts made...
Those who brag that they entered in Mar due to their wisdom... I have only this to say.
"Lucky few at the expanse of sellers, one smart and the other dumb".
However, if you are really smart, you can predict the next collapse.
I agree. Take 100 very very average persons. Let's say that 2 randomly enter the market each month. Thus, the 100 persons will buy 100 condos over 50 months. Let's say the market cycle is 25 months from trough to peak. Then at least 4% will buy at the market bottom, and another 4% will buy at the market peak. The 4% that bought at the market trough are all here bragging about their feat. geesh, get a life.
Those who brag that they entered in Mar due to their wisdom... I have only this to say.
"Lucky few at the expanse of sellers, one smart and the other dumb".
Clap clap :p
Now back to 100 Trees, anyone has news about the timing for non-resi?
stalingrad
24-09-09, 12:57
:D
I agree with you. So hard to get the seller to accept my march offer. Unfortunately i was not lucky. But it does not take any luck to buy soon after knowing that buyers are flocking back and sellers are reluctant to negotiate lower.
Next collapse will come when the G20 countries unwind the stimulus package to rein in inflation. Before that prices will hit the roof. Stand by for action, like someone said, first mover advantage and how you position yourself for it.:D
I agree with you. there were very few sellers in March. the prices did not have a free fall, rather they sort of just froze. No one were selling at fire sale prices. you would be lucky to buy anything at rock bottom prices at that time. the market simply stopped moving.
Maybe newspaper actually know about it?
Perhaps we should give them benefit of doubt?
Sorry reporter, i should give the news paper some credit. I had actually read this among others and forgot. Tks for pointing it out again.
One tiny tip, if you break the oversupply numbers into the CCR, RCR and ORC, most of the oversupply is in high end property. This again is fron a banks anaylsis i believe.
On thing about data, it is vey useful to have but too much of it will cause information overload and affect your emotions and judgment. Gather enough to know the trend and take a view. I buy and sell based on concrete data not on bank/newspaper/agent analysis.
:scared-4:
I agree with you. there were very few sellers in March. the prices did not have a free fall, rather they sort of just froze. No one were selling at fire sale prices. you would be lucky to buy anything at rock bottom prices at that time. the market simply stopped moving.
I had a friend come tell me recently, huh you bought at this price, you missed the boat, You should have bought in March. I asked him where he was in March, April, May, June. Has he been viewing properties lately?
He is comparing newspaper report price in August with newspaper report price in March!!!!!! :scared-4: If he go and view flat, he will be in for a shock cos he will not be able to find his September caveat price in the market!
:scared-4:
I had a friend come tell me recently, huh you bought at this price, you missed the boat, You should have bought in March. I asked him where he was in March, April, May, June. Has he been viewing properties lately?
He is comparing newspaper report price in August with newspaper report price in March!!!!!! :scared-4: If he go and view flat, he will be in for a shock cos he will not be able to find his September caveat price in the market!
The prices shot up so much since March 09...
Can anyone tell me when are they going to stop....
I am sure that there is a limit...
When???????? think!!!!!!!!!!!!
The prices shot up so much since March 09...
Can anyone tell me when are they going to stop....
I am sure that there is a limit...
When???????? think!!!!!!!!!!!!
I gave the hint earlier right? Ask the central banks to revesre their earlier actions and viola, it will stop and even fall if they are agressive.
Food for thought. Money can be printed overnight but a house needs raw materials to build.
bargain hunter
24-09-09, 14:31
seems like it will be tomorrow at 12pm. got an invitation from a hutton's agent for it. don't think i am going though.
Clap clap :p
Now back to 100 Trees, anyone has news about the timing for non-resi?
One agent sms to me "last call for priority booking; cheque submission cut off at 8pm today". Just wonder is this project so hot until have to submit the cheque by deadline??
moneyspinner
24-09-09, 16:34
One agent sms to me "last call for priority booking; cheque submission cut off at 8pm today". Just wonder is this project so hot until have to submit the cheque by deadline??
We shall see if it hits the headlines!:scared-4:
bro bargain hunter, looks like ur hutton agent more "on" ... mine disappear dunno where after tt last sms.
hi dormer, it's interesting to hear about the cut-off time!?! Perhaps they really so busy now tt I don't get to hear from tt agent :confused:
stalingrad
24-09-09, 16:42
my agent said the same thing. "check collection will stop at.." My replay was "who told you I would give you a blank check?"
BTW, the same agent told me that for a 3 bedder, the price ranges from $870 to $950 psf, for stacks 16, 22 and 23. CDL has released only these stacks.
moneyspinner
24-09-09, 16:46
For this development, either you face the noise or you face the hot sun!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
bro bargain hunter, looks like ur hutton agent more "on" ... mine disappear dunno where after tt last sms.
hi dormer, it's interesting to hear about the cut-off time!?! Perhaps they really so busy now tt I don't get to hear from tt agent :confused:
I received the SMS 2pm today. Don't know who is the agent and how they got my no. Anyway, I don't have any interest in this project.
For this development, either you face the noise or you face the hot sun!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
Aiyoh .. like tt seriously don't think will hit the headline lah.
For this development, either you face the noise or you face the hot sun!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
Actually, to know the noise level... talk a walk and sit at the bus stop along the expressway.. Give it some discount as the project is shielded by a arteria road. However, beware the class 2C motorbikes... too loud anywhere.
For the west sun facing units.. same thing.. talk a walk behind... I think there might be some hidden spots which is not in the direct sun. Not sure as you got to go and check yourself.
Beware the hungry agents....lurking around there.
Squall8888
24-09-09, 17:11
If this project sells as well as Interlace, then we can see what ripple effects it might bring..
For this development, either you face the noise or you face the hot sun!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
Most stacks faces North/South. Only the 1&2 bedders face either northeast or southwest. So sun is not so much of a problem since angled sun is not as hot as direct sunlight. But noise is a different matter.
Does anyone know of any other methods of reducing noise beside the usual double glazing of windows & sliding doors.
For 100 trees half the stacks faces the park towards the south so should be quiet.
Did I put words in your mouth?
"I guess since you are HDB dweller, you fail to take your comparison of Mirage Tower and Ardmore in the long run to see the difference between FH and LH"
"Anyway I have never seen people with money, I mean serious money, actuall want to stay in HDB, and since you stay in HDB just shows that you are simply not a seasoned property player, period. Can say plenty but cannot do."
Originally Posted by xebay11
No not stay HDB means dumb, ignorant, or stupid, come on don't put words into my mouth. My remarks are only directed personally at you, if you want to show examples you must lead by example then you are credible, IMHO all you are sprouting is hindsight information, nothing concrete and I did ask you what to invest in now, no reply, I am open to your ideas, so please share and I will evaluate the soundness of your proposition, as I said I am waiting with cash but personally I feel that market is too high and that there would be a correction soon.
The word "HDB" has become an insult. Even an ex-teacher wrote recently that HDB kids are less motivated.
No matter how nice they make the new flats, people are still trying to get out because it is still considered as subsidised housing for those who cannot make it.
I guess that explains the long queues and blank cheques.
Most stacks faces North/South. Only the 1&2 bedders face either northeast or southwest. So sun is not so much of a problem since angled sun is not as hot as direct sunlight. But noise is a different matter.
Does anyone know of any other methods of reducing noise beside the usual double glazing of windows & sliding doors.
For 100 trees half the stacks faces the park towards the south so should be quiet.
On drawing, the N-S stack are 24 degree from N...thus more of a NE than true north.
Which is worst? Hot sun or Noise?
IMHO I think noise is worse, as it is 24/7 and you can't even have a peaceful moment ever if you live at the AYE, OTH hot sun if indirect can still be negated with double glazed glass, curtains, blinds and air con and it is only in the afternoon, at least at night you can still enjoy the peace and quiet.
Which is worst? Hot sun or Noise?
IMHO I think noise is worse, as it is 24/7 and you can't even have a peaceful moment ever if you live at the AYE, OTH hot sun if indirect can still be negated with double glazed glass, curtains, blinds and air con and it is only in the afternoon, at least at night you can still enjoy the peace and quiet.
Its not really 24/7. When you are at home you just need to close all the windows & doors that faces the source of the noise . Those windows & doors that do not ,can be kept open. Also at night we normally sleep in an aircon room anyway. Noise can be greatly reduced if developers provide good double glazed windows . In fact I was told by an agent that when he was marketing a unit at Cosmopolitan he could hardly hear any noise from the road . He said that the developer had paid particular attention to the sealing around the window frames & the glass thus ensuring no noise can get through.
Only problem is if you want quietness you have to sacrifice enjoying alfresco wind on the balcony.
bargain hunter
24-09-09, 22:06
there are millionaires (the unleveraged type) who live in hdbs.
The word "HDB" has become an insult. Even an ex-teacher wrote recently that HDB kids are less motivated.
No matter how nice they make the new flats, people are still trying to get out because it is still considered as subsidised housing for those who cannot make it.
I guess that explains the long queues and blank cheques.
bargain hunter
24-09-09, 22:10
Interlace only sold 233 out of a total 1040 units. of course, only 360 units are launched so that's 65% of launched units. if 65% of this project can be cleared this weekend, then i guess there will be ripple effect.
If this project sells as well as Interlace, then we can see what ripple effects it might bring..
bargain hunter
24-09-09, 22:13
drove past at 9pm. carpark was full, many shoes outside showflat, wonder if sales has already started???
moneyspinner
24-09-09, 22:16
drove past at 9pm. carpark was full, many shoes outside showflat, wonder if sales has already started???
Judging from what you observe, looks like this is going to be another sold out project!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So property prices will continue to head northwards!!!!!!!!:scared-1:
drove past at 9pm. carpark was full, many shoes outside showflat, wonder if sales has already started???
dun think so..
agent called and say balloting is tmw morning.
drove past at 9pm. carpark was full, many shoes outside showflat, wonder if sales has already started???
Maybe all agents' cars, all agents' shoes??
pwfah so many posts in so short a time. here's my 2 cents lah.
there is now a serious schism in the market. Those who have access to cheap credit, and those who have lost access to cheap credit.
my friends who have businesses that target lower-middle, lower-mass and malay markets - all suffering. look at geylang serai. then take a drive to leng kee. go into those kia, chevrolet showrooms - bo lang. then go to mb, pml, volv etc - wu lang. same story in today's coe prices.
For those of you that cow bay cow bu about the market, note that there is still a segment of the market that hasn't been as 'lucky' as you, with resentment and social issues starting to build there.
this crazy property market is wholly driven by 2 things. a false sense of security and 'richness' caused by an artificial propping of HDB flats - which then translates to an 'asset-backed' ability to access cheap credit.
today a 30 year old DINK family using CPF alone can buy a $1m apartment at interest rates of 1.8%. His 20% downpayment funded by profit from selling his flat. Of course the mass market is being driven up. See what happens when interest rates go back to the historical median of 3%. then all their CPF PLUS an additional 30% of take home pay gone, and they will cry. Unfortunately for many buyers today, i think this scenario might hit even before their property TOP.
People should have some cow sense. Go and see the ST table on biggest gainers/losers. Mass market even during the early 2009 downturn to date is all in positive territory vs 2007. High-end is still down 20% from 2007. Haven't you considered that you're buying at the highs for mass market? Econs 101 teaches buy low sell high. why you all want to buy high and sell low?
Before you buy your property, ask yourself these questions:
- can you tahan a doubling of interest rates and thus, your monthly repayments?
- can you afford to top up an additional 10% cash to the bank in case your property value falls 30% in the event of a double dip?
- what was your property price in 2005, and is today's price multiple backed by locational fundamentals or driven by kiasu upgraders?
your purchase must be backed by logic and locational fundamentals for price maintenance and appreciation in the medium to long term.
Marina bay was $1000psf in 2005, and trades at 2.5x multiple now. but it benefits from $60 billion in infrastructure pumped into the immediate area, limited supply as there are only 2 condos with room for only 1 more, and is positioned as an important commercial and lifestyle hub that could displace orchard.
Toa Payoh (Centro) is trading at a 4x multiple now. AMK at 3.5x. 100Trees at 2.5x. Does anything warrant this increase? if it does, then why worry?
The big question is not whether you can afford property prices today, but if you can afford property prices in the future. For me, i'm aggressively seeking to refinance my stuff with 3 year fixed rates, and marginally taking out some equity up to 60% LTV.
drove past at 9pm. carpark was full, many shoes outside showflat, wonder if sales has already started???
Was down at the showflat in the afternoon to take a look. Today is special preview & booking day for the former residents of Hong Leong Gardens condo. Can't go in but just took a peek at the model layout.
After they had their pick don't know what's left as they only launched 150units. Hopefully they will release more units tomorrow. Tomorrow is vvip preview for those who have submitted blank cheques & its by balloting.
for avoidance of doubt, let me state that i am highly bearish about the property market, except for areas that target the well heeled, but excluding orchard which i personally think is in a state of decay.
there are only 3 areas i like today: marina bay, sentosa cove and tanjong rhu. and ONLY for the reason that the govt is pumping billions into the area, and these 3 are the only beneficiaries. i like to go where the money is.
Just like F1, the IR is NOT going to make businesses in Singapore have windfall profits etc. Novelties like this are meant to make Singapore a playground for the rich, and that segment in terms of headcount is few and far in between. The whales will get comped room or villa, and they might just stick around for a few days/weeks before flying back to their family and business base.
No, those 3 places i mentioned are not direct beneficiaries of the IR, but rather beneficiaries of the expanded, upscaled lifestyle infrastructure aimed at making the Bay a playground for the rich. These places will not attract the whales, but rather the existing and constantly arriving expat CXOs and migrant businessmen and the local nouveau-riche, or offspring of old money.
Was down at the showflat in the afternoon to take a look. Today is special preview & booking day for the former residents of Hong Leong Gardens condo. Can't go in but just took a peek at the model layout.
After they had their pick don't know what's left as they only launched 150units. Hopefully they will release more units tomorrow. Tomorrow is vvip preview for those who have submitted blank cheques & its by balloting.
I got an e-mail from another agent (who I don't know..) that I just need to print out his email and it will be the VVIP pass to go in.
Any Heong Leong Garden Residents can tell us what is the psf for the various size unit?
Econs 101 teaches buy low sell high. why you all want to buy high and sell low?
If it were that easy, there will be no takers for economics professor jobs. They will all be billionaires.
Look at the two graphs below. They are taken from real historical charts.
What is the next step? Is it the right time to buy?
One of them will make you very very rich, one will make you very very poor. Chances 50:50.
Which one is buy low sell high? Which one is buy high sell low? :confused:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/jlrx_bucket/HighOrLow2.jpg
for avoidance of doubt, let me state that i am highly bearish about the property market, except for areas that target the well heeled, but excluding orchard which i personally think is in a state of decay.
..........
Perhaps buying a new Aztech Computer home can change your bearishness into bullishness?
Aztech Proposes To Diversify Its Business By Venturing Into The Property Sector
Ms Pavani Nagarajah
Company Secretary
Aztech Group Ltd.
Friday, 24 September 2009, 19:36:13
The Board of Directors of Aztech Group Ltd is pleased to announce that, in line with the Group’s long-term strategy of diversifying it’s business, the Group proposes to venture into the property development, building construction and property management businesses (the “New Business”).
The Group believes that the economic growth in the Asia-Pacific region has led to an increase in the demand for services in the New Business and that the New Business would have bright prospects in Singapore and the Asia-Pacific region given the high savings rate and economic progress in the region.
Initially, the Group proposes to enter the residential property segment in Singapore as a boutique developer. Given the projected population growth, the Group believes that there will be long-term sustainable demand for the New Business. The residential property sector in Singapore has seen tremendous growth in terms of the number of new projects launched as well as the amount of interest in these projects among investors and buyers.
An extraordinary general meeting (the “EGM”) will be convened to seek the approval of shareholders for the Group to engage in the New Business.
Perhaps buying a new Aztech Computer home can change your bearishness into bullishness?
lol. then everyday the apartment will turn blue and everything just stops working till reboot
there are only 3 areas i like today: marina bay, sentosa cove and tanjong rhu. and ONLY for the reason that the govt is pumping billions into the area, and these 3 are the only beneficiaries. i like to go where the money is.
No, those 3 places i mentioned are not direct beneficiaries of the IR, but rather beneficiaries of the expanded, upscaled lifestyle infrastructure aimed at making the Bay a playground for the rich. These places will not attract the whales, but rather the existing and constantly arriving expat CXOs and migrant businessmen and the local nouveau-riche, or offspring of old money.
steady brother, i like this 3 areas too.
marina bay and sentosa cove especially, are for the long haul, as full potential can only be realised some 3-5 yrs ahead. i suspect not many has that kind of holding power to weather the dips inbetween. :o
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 01:06
in the first place, not many can afford an apartment in sentosa.
steady brother, i like this 3 areas too.
marina bay and sentosa cove especially, are for the long haul, as full potential can only be realised some 3-5 yrs ahead. i suspect not many has that kind of holding power to weather the dips inbetween. :o
Received sms from a huttons agent this morning (but not from the other 2 huttons agents that I had discussed this development with) that showroom packed with people at 8am, likely for the "lucky draw". Huttons collected 120 cheques so far.
Received sms from a huttons agent this morning (but not from the other 2 huttons agents that I had discussed this development with) that showroom packed with people at 8am, likely for the "lucky draw". Huttons collected 120 cheques so far.
got info that it is more than $930psf above for lowest floor
only 120? i expected 1200 chqs....:tongue3:
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 09:37
From today's business times:
Published September 25, 2009
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/static/image/ax/c.gif
Hundred Trees condo priced at $895 psf
By KALPANA RASHIWALA
CITY Developments Ltd (CDL) is said to have begun selling the first phase of the 956-year leasehold Hundred Trees condo in the West Coast area at an average price of $895 per square foot.
Buyers can opt for an interest absorption scheme (IAS) - but they'll have to pay 2.5 per cent more.
About 150 of the project's total 396 units are believed to have been released under the first phase.
Sales to former owners of the Hong Leong Garden Condominium - from whom CDL bought the site through a collective sale in 2007 - began yesterday. CDL staff as well as special guests were also invited to purchase units at Hundred Trees yesterday.
From today's business times:
Published September 25, 2009
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/static/image/ax/c.gif
Hundred Trees condo priced at $895 psf
By KALPANA RASHIWALA
CITY Developments Ltd (CDL) is said to have begun selling the first phase of the 956-year leasehold Hundred Trees condo in the West Coast area at an average price of $895 per square foot.
Buyers can opt for an interest absorption scheme (IAS) - but they'll have to pay 2.5 per cent more.
About 150 of the project's total 396 units are believed to have been released under the first phase.
Sales to former owners of the Hong Leong Garden Condominium - from whom CDL bought the site through a collective sale in 2007 - began yesterday. CDL staff as well as special guests were also invited to purchase units at Hundred Trees yesterday.
$895 is for 4bedders units I guess..
My agent told me 2+study is from $930 onwards
$895 is for 4bedders units I guess..
My agent told me 2+study is from $930 onwards
Rt, doesn't sound like 895 psf - more like 930 if factor in 2.5% IAS?
Rt, doesn't sound like 895 psf - more like 930 if factor in 2.5% IAS?
$930 is NPS price
so u need to add another 2.5% for IAS
Property_Owner
25-09-09, 11:31
Its not really 24/7. When you are at home you just need to close all the windows & doors that faces the source of the noise . Those windows & doors that do not ,can be kept open. Also at night we normally sleep in an aircon room anyway. Noise can be greatly reduced if developers provide good double glazed windows . In fact I was told by an agent that when he was marketing a unit at Cosmopolitan he could hardly hear any noise from the road . He said that the developer had paid particular attention to the sealing around the window frames & the glass thus ensuring no noise can get through.
Only problem is if you want quietness you have to sacrifice enjoying alfresco wind on the balcony.
Metro? Go hear for yourself. Enough had been said for metro!
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 11:40
he's referring to Cosmo, not metro rite? the one at the big cross junction of river valley.
anyone hear about any action at the launch yet? almost 12pm liao. :p
Metro? Go hear for yourself. Enough had been said for metro!
Received sms from a huttons agent this morning (but not from the other 2 huttons agents that I had discussed this development with) that showroom packed with people at 8am, likely for the "lucky draw". Huttons collected 120 cheques so far.
Queuing up for a ballot to buy trees? Cute!
Remind me of queuing up for a ballot to buy Singapore BlueChip IPO. Very tiring!
Perhaps they thought they are buying a Singapore government-run bluechip company instead of trees?
Who knows?
http://i2.propertyguru.com.sg/images/ps/logo.png
Immigrant influx and the property market
PropertyGuru.com.sg
Friday, 25 September 2009
In the middle of debates regarding the condition of Singapore’s property market, a survey was conducted to shed light on why the city’s real estate industry bounced back much quicker than most analysts expected.
The said survey was accredited and commissioned by the feedback unit of the Singaporean Government, Reach. The unit polled 360 respondents comprising people who have just acquired permanent residency and citizenship in Singapore. During the course of the survey, the respondents were asked several questions regarding the city they just recently adopted as their own.
Some of the major findings are: 95% would recommend living in Singapore to other people; 93.3% feel that their overall Singaporean experience has exceeded expectations; 87.5% transitioned smoothly and did not encounter any problems with the political system; and 80.6% consider the cost of living in Singapore as manageable.
Taking the survey at its face value, the results may be seen as resounding endorsements to move to Singapore and live here. Yes, the positive findings may not be surprising at all because the sample was taken from people who attended ceremonies for the bestowal of their citizenship certificates. “They wouldn't be new citizens if they don't enjoy living in Singapore,” remarked Terence Chong, a sociologist at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.
However, informal conversations with permanent residents and expats also generally yield somewhat similar reactions: Singapore is a really “easy-to-live-in” city.
With the city’s status as an attractive city to live in and the government’s liberality with regard to immigration policies, it comes as no surprise that the population of residents in Singapore has been ballooning steadily in the past few years. Consequentially, the demand for homes has also been growing. To some degree, this explicates why property rental and selling prices have remained firm.
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said in a statement that immigrant inflow will slow down, but the tap will not be turned off. He also reiterated that Singapore will definitely “need new immigrants for the indefinite future.” Wooing foreigners to relocate here thus remains a major policy, even though the number of immigrants to be taken in is calibrated every once in a while. The current larger population base and the continuous influx of immigrants will guarantee a minimum level of new housing demand on a yearly basis.
In the meantime, Singapore has survived the economic downturn virtually unscathed and has emerged as an oasis or haven of stability, aside from being recognised as a booming “hub city” in the fastest developing region in the world. As such, analysts forecast that the city will remain as an immigrant and financial capital magnet. In a way, owning a property here may be equated to owning a stake in a Singapore government-run firm. Very much similar to bluechip stocks, it’s not unimaginable that liveable cities and well-managed nations should also enjoy premiums.
Property_Owner
25-09-09, 11:59
he's referring to Cosmo, not metro rite? the one at the big cross junction of river valley.
anyone hear about any action at the launch yet? almost 12pm liao. :p
Pai seh, eyes getting old:)
From today's business times:
Published September 25, 2009
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/static/image/ax/c.gif
Hundred Trees condo priced at $895 psf
By KALPANA RASHIWALA
CITY Developments Ltd (CDL) is said to have begun selling the first phase of the 956-year leasehold Hundred Trees condo in the West Coast area at an average price of $895 per square foot.
Buyers can opt for an interest absorption scheme (IAS) - but they'll have to pay 2.5 per cent more.
About 150 of the project's total 396 units are believed to have been released under the first phase.
Sales to former owners of the Hong Leong Garden Condominium - from whom CDL bought the site through a collective sale in 2007 - began yesterday. CDL staff as well as special guests were also invited to purchase units at Hundred Trees yesterday.
I don't understand. If i have to pay an additional 2.5 per cent more. I am actually paying the interests, why call the scheme Interest absorption scheme?
There is no free lunch in this world.. that is why IAS is for those who do not have the cash but yet die die wanna buy 1mil property..juz down 20% and start service loan upon top. If you have the cash, it would obviously not make economic sense to do so
Originally Posted by bargain hunter
he's referring to Cosmo, not metro rite? the one at the big cross junction of river valley.
anyone hear about any action at the launch yet? almost 12pm liao. :p
Pai seh, eyes getting old:)
Haha ... you are not the only one confused by the two *politans. :p
Just checked ... Cosmopolitan is creeping back towards $2,000 psf. Latest transaction is $1,858 psf. :scared-4:
Developer price was $1,447 psf. I remember the land was the former Times House belonging to Singapore Press Holdings which they sold to Wheelock for only $400 psf ppr (if I remember correctly).
That made SPH so angry that later it developed its own condo Soleil@Sinaran on their other site, instead of selling the land to developers. :simmering:
I don't understand. If i have to pay an additional 2.5 per cent more. I am actually paying the interests, why call the scheme Interest absorption scheme?
if a buyer takes bank loan, the interest paid till TOP may exceed 2.5% already. say 80% loan, 2% interest, wait 3 yrs, that's 4.8% interest, so developer absorb the difference? IAS not attractive to stayers who are financially more prepared, why not pay back principal asap.
Haha ... you are not the only one confused by the two *politans. :p
Just checked ... Cosmopolitan is creeping back towards $2,000 psf. Latest transaction is $1,858 psf. :scared-4:
Developer price was $1,447 psf. I remember the land was the former Times House belonging to Singapore Press Holdings which they sold to Wheelock for only $400 psf ppr (if I remember correctly).
That made SPH so angry that later it developed its own condo Soleil@Sinaran on their other site, instead of selling the land to developers. :simmering:
Should be Sky@Eleven. Soleil is FCL. :rolleyes:
breaking news: hey I heard this morning all launched units sold !
wuowoo ... heard fr agent ah?
breaking news: hey I heard this morning all launched units sold !
Maybe it isn't so surprising.
If D16 99LH Optima can sell at $1,071psf, why can't D5 999LH sell below $1,000psf?
Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of August 2009
Project Name ............. Locality . Units Sold To Date . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
Optima @ Tanah Merah . OCR ...... 294 ...................... 164 ........................ 1,071 ........... 843 ............. 603
breaking news: hey I heard this morning all launched units sold !
Heard samething. 7 stacks all sold. Now see whether CDL will release the remaining stacks this afternoon or not.
But not suprising. 7 stacks of 12 floors = 84 units. Huttons already collected 120 cheques.
breaking news: hey I heard this morning all launched units sold !
Waaaa....maybe they can launch the sequel: Two Hundred Trees. :rolleyes:
Maybe it isn't so surprising.
If D16 99LH Optima can sell at $1,071psf, why can't D5 999LH sell below $1,000psf?
Err is tt relevant comparison.. tt's Optima's highest psf for last mth rite?
Hi jonleek, do u know exactly how many units being launched? That hutton agent who sms-ed me nvr gave such info :(
Heard samething. 7 stacks all sold. Now see whether CDL will release the remaining stacks this afternoon or not.
But not suprising. 7 stacks of 12 floors = 84 units. Huttons already collected 120 cheques.
breaking news: hey I heard this morning all launched units sold !
So does that mean it will appear in news headline or not?
100 Trees overwhelmed with Hundred queues
stalingrad
25-09-09, 13:59
why so hot although there are no bathtubs?
Which are the 7 stacks released?
Waaaa....maybe they can launch the sequel: Two Hundred Trees. :rolleyes:
These Two Hundred Trees will probably be snapped up too.
Most likely these buyers know that Singapore market cannot act differently from its bigger brothers, namely South Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan.
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/common/mast_home.gif
South Korea: Housing market sizzles again
Lee JunBok
The Straits Times
Friday, 25 September 2009
It is hard to miss the upbeat mood in South Korea these days. The latest economic indicators coming out of Asia’s fourth-largest economy show that the country is edging out of the financial doghouse that the world was thrown into late last year.
One indicator that analysts have pointed to is the slowly but steadily rising housing prices. The appetite to buy property has returned on the back of record low borrowing costs.
Since April, housing prices have climbed for 5 consecutive months, according to market data by Kookmin Bank. Last month, prices rose another 0.3% above the previous month.
Housing prices in Seoul, the economic heart of the country, have a bearing on prices nationwide, and they went up by 0.5%. Transactions also picked up.
'People are confident enough to buy houses because they sense they don’t need to hold on to cash any more,' said Mr Lee Chung Yeol, .....
..........
..........
..........
..... all that liquidity.’
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/images/cna_interactivemedia.gif
Property prices in Taipei skyrocketing
Christina Lo
Taiwan Correspondent
Channel NewsAsia
Taipei, Taiwan
Friday, 18 September 2009, 0028 hrs
"To Let" or "For Sale" signboards were everywhere in Taipei when the global financial crisis hit in the fourth quarter last year.
The real estate industry was among the most badly affected. Weak demand for residential property and office space also caused a sharp fall in prices.
But a year later, property prices in Taipei have skyrocketed, while home sales in the West .....
..........
..........
..........
..... a housing bubble.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/images/cna_interactivemedia.gif
Experts warn bubble brewing in HK property market
Channel NewsAsia
Hong Kong SAR
Thursday, 17 September 2009, 1909 hrs
Hong Kong's residential property prices have rebounded this year by up to 30%, despite continued economic uncertainty.
Consultants said the property market is disconnected from the wider economic reality, while economists warned that a property bubble has formed.
Developers attribute the rise to record-low mortgage costs, near-zero interest rates and tightened supply.
Consultants predict property transactions will be around 20% higher in 2009, compared to the previous year.
..........
..........
..........
..... hard to predict.
These Two Hundred Trees will probably be snapped up too.
Most likely these buyers know that Singapore market cannot act differently from its bigger brothers, namely South Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan.
Then can have trilogy sequel.. three hundred trees, it rhymes too
Property_Owner
25-09-09, 14:21
So does that mean it will appear in news headline or not?
100 Trees overwhelmed with Hundred queues
2 years later also head line, bubble burst. 100 tress sell @ loss
Hi jonleek, do u know exactly how many units being launched? That hutton agent who sms-ed me nvr gave such info :(
No idea. Only know 7 stacks. 84 was just my guess as most are 12 floors.
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 15:17
i think developer's sales price was sub 1000psf at the bottom of the market in 2005. sph later developed sky @ eleven not soleil @ sinaran.
Haha ... you are not the only one confused by the two *politans. :p
Just checked ... Cosmopolitan is creeping back towards $2,000 psf. Latest transaction is $1,858 psf. :scared-4:
Developer price was $1,447 psf. I remember the land was the former Times House belonging to Singapore Press Holdings which they sold to Wheelock for only $400 psf ppr (if I remember correctly).
That made SPH so angry that later it developed its own condo Soleil@Sinaran on their other site, instead of selling the land to developers. :simmering:
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 15:23
strange, at around 2pm the sms i received was 150+ units released, all 1 bedrooms snapped up, some 2 bedders still available. No updates since then.
No idea. Only know 7 stacks. 84 was just my guess as most are 12 floors.
strange, at around 2pm the sms i received was 150+ units released, all 1 bedrooms snapped up, some 2 bedders still available. No updates since then.
Yes after reading through
A bit confusing
understand and really appreciate the eagerness for the sharing
but forumer must bear some responsibility in their post
especially between fact and assumption.
Should be Sky@Eleven. Soleil is FCL. :rolleyes:
i think developer's sales price was sub 1000psf at the bottom of the market in 2005. sph later developed sky @ eleven not soleil @ sinaran.
Alamak! :doh:
Pai seh ... :ashamed1:
I also getting old. :old-chinese-guy:
2 years later also head line, bubble burst. 100 tress sell @ loss
Forest fire, all the 100 trees burn down haa haa.... :D
strange, at around 2pm the sms i received was 150+ units released, all 1 bedrooms snapped up, some 2 bedders still available. No updates since then.
If combining both updates, likely CDL released additional units. Initial 7 stacks were "supposed" to be "all sold" within 3 hrs.
But again, we are just sharing what we get from agents. :D
The website is up.
http://www.hundredtrees.sg/
"Start your day with a hundred trees, end it with a thousand memories." :rolleyes:
Yes after reading through
A bit confusing
understand and really appreciate the eagerness for the sharing
but forumer must bear some responsibility in their post
especially between fact and assumption.
Ok this is fact . Left the showroom at 2pm . 19 stacks were launched & 11 stacks were sold out by the time i left. All the 1 & 2 bedders launched were sold out within 2-3 hours.
Prices for 2 bedders ranged from $900 to $1045psf. Didn't have time to record prices for 1 bedder. It went in a blur. However prices for the bigger units are quite reasonable at $850-$950psf depending on level & facing.
2br is really small at 786sqft ... even at 1000psf still below 800k ... guess this is the selling point :doh:
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/companies/story/0,4574,351777,00.html?
Published September 25, 2009
Hundred Trees condo priced at $895 psf
By KALPANA RASHIWALA
CITY Developments Ltd (CDL) is said to have begun selling the first phase of the 956-year leasehold Hundred Trees condo in the West Coast area at an average price of $895 per square foot.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-09-25/BT_IMAGES_KRMEMPAT25-Y70.jpg
In full bloom: The development takes its name from some 100 pink mempat trees that will line the project's walkways
Buyers can opt for an interest absorption scheme (IAS) - but they'll have to pay 2.5 per cent more.
About 150 of the project's total 396 units are believed to have been released under the first phase.
Sales to former owners of the Hong Leong Garden Condominium - from whom CDL bought the site through a collective sale in 2007 - began yesterday. CDL staff as well as special guests were also invited to purchase units at Hundred Trees yesterday.
The preview for other buyers who had pre-registered interest in the development begins today.
BT understands that one and two-bedroom apartments, and two bedroom-plus-study units make up around 40 per cent of total units in the 12-storey condo.
Prices of one-bedders, which are about 485 square feet, begin from over $500,000. Two bedders range from 690 to 786 sq ft while two-plus-study units are between 915 and 1,227 sq ft.
'With a relatively large proportion of smaller units, the absolute price quantum per unit has been kept relatively affordable,' a market watcher said.
Hundred Trees' average price is below earlier expectations in some quarters of about $930-$980 psf.
However, it is higher than the recent transactions in the West Coast area, noted analysts. Over the past few months, units at Botannia and Carabelle (both completed this year) have sold at a median price of about $800 psf while units at The Parc Condo, which is still under construction, have changed hands at a median price of about $850 psf, according to caveat data.
Analysts' estimates of CDL's pre-tax earnings from Hundred Trees vary widely, from about $75 million to $135 million, depending on the efficiency ratio (ratio of the project's total saleable area to gross floor area) and construction cost assumptions.
CDL paid $131.5 million for the 266,076 sq ft Hong Leong Garden Condominium plot. This worked out to about $363 psf of potential gross floor area inclusive of development charge, which was reported at about $23 million at the time.
The site is zoned for residential use with a 1.6 plot ratio. Some analysts have suggested that CDL's breakeven cost could be below $700 psf.
Hundred Trees takes its name from some 100 pink mempat trees, dubbed the local version of Japan's sakura or cherry blossoms, that will line the project's walkways. The location is popular with the Japanese community; there are Japanese schools nearby and Japanese restaurants in the Hong Leong Garden Shopping Centre next to the Hundred Trees site.
Although IAS was scrapped on Sept 14, a developer can still offer the scheme for a project if the developer and its partner bank have entered into an agreement before that date to offer IAS for the project and the developer has already offered units in the development for sale under IAS before the same date.
Other projects expected to be previewed in the coming weeks include Far East Organization's Alba, a 50-unit project at Cairnhill Rise that will have a 'white plan' similar to the group's Boulevard Vue project at Cuscaden Road where apartment layouts can be customised to individual buyers' preferences.
Far East is also expected to preview soon its 278-unit freehold Cyan condo at Keng Chin Road in Bukit Timah.
Starlight Suites at River Valley Close and Ho Bee's Trilight at Newton Road are also expected to be released soon.
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 18:05
Great job jsh! did you get a unit? :) hmm, around 800k for 2 bedder, 1m for 3 bedder and 1.25m for 4 bedder?
Ok this is fact . Left the showroom at 2pm . 19 stacks were launched & 11 stacks were sold out by the time i left. All the 1 & 2 bedders launched were sold out within 2-3 hours.
Prices for 2 bedders ranged from $900 to $1045psf. Didn't have time to record prices for 1 bedder. It went in a blur. However prices for the bigger units are quite reasonable at $850-$950psf depending on level & facing.
Great job jsh! did you get a unit? :) hmm, around 800k for 2 bedder, 1m for 3 bedder and 1.25m for 4 bedder?
Managed to get a unit but because I was balloted late i didn't managed to get the floor i wanted . It is a 2 bedder on the quieter facing.
Ok this is fact . Left the showroom at 2pm . 19 stacks were launched & 11 stacks were sold out by the time i left. All the 1 & 2 bedders launched were sold out within 2-3 hours.
Prices for 2 bedders ranged from $900 to $1045psf. Didn't have time to record prices for 1 bedder. It went in a blur. However prices for the bigger units are quite reasonable at $850-$950psf depending on level & facing.
Wow Jsh
Thank you so much for the info
hmm, around 800k for 2 bedder, 1m for 3 bedder and 1.25m for 4 bedder?
Yes! Your guesses are around there. The showroom is indeed very packed the 4 bedder which is on the 2nd floor of the showroom you cannot happy happy just walk up and view. You need to queue because they scared too many people on the 2nd floor wait the floor collapse! Sort of like waiting for the corresponding number of audience to come down before you and your friends / agent can go up! Wah Lan A!
But having said that, I was a bit disappointed they giving Homo Tiles for the flooring; the 2nd bedroom is a tad smaller and overall impression of the project and its finishing is so-so only... :o
moneyspinner
25-09-09, 19:03
Yes! Your guesses are around there. The showroom is indeed very packed the 4 bedder which is on the 2nd floor of the showroom you cannot happy happy just walk up and view. You need to queue because they scared too many people on the 2nd floor wait the floor collapse! Sort of like waiting for the corresponding number of audience to come down before you and your friends / agent can go up! Wah Lan A!
But having said that, I was a bit disappointed they giving Homo Tiles for the flooring; the 2nd bedroom is a tad smaller and overall impression of the project and its finishing is so-so only... :o
Wah, this kind of news will make headlines tomorrow alredi!!!!!! Property prices - Cheong Arhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:scared-1:
Wah, this kind of news will make headlines tomorrow alredi!!!!!! Property prices - Cheong Arhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:scared-1:
Perhaps tomorrow headline is heavily influenced by today's "premium" headline?
Anyway, let those reporters work out tomorrow headline while I let those "premium" F1 cars zoom pass me by.
Got to go. The Porsche Carrera Cup Asia practise is on now.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/static/image/images/topMasthead_small.gif
Singapore's safe-haven premium
The Business Times
Friday, 25 September 2009
Amid the debate about the current state of the property market in Singapore, a survey report which came out this week might shed some light on why real estate here has rebounded faster than most pundits expected. The survey was commissioned by Reach, the Singapore government's feedback unit, and polled 360 new Singapore citizens and permanent residents, who were asked a number of questions about their newly adopted country. Among the survey's key findings were that:
® 95% would recommend Singapore as a place to live in
® 93.3% find the overall experience in Singapore better than expected
® 87.5% have no problems adjusting to Singapore's political system
® 80.6% find the cost of living here manageable.
Taken at face value, the survey results are a ringing endorsement for Singapore as a highly livable city. But yes, as noted by some, the positive findings are perhaps not surprising, given that the sample was drawn from those attending their citizenship certificate presentation ceremonies. 'They wouldn't be new citizens if they don't enjoy living in Singapore,' said sociologist Terence Chong of the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.
But informal discussions with expatriates and permanent residents generally also yield similar responses: Singapore is a very easy-to-live city. Against the backdrop of Singapore's attractiveness as a city to citizens of the world, and our liberal immigration policies, it is little wonder that the number of residents in this small island has been rising at a steady clip in the last few years. As a direct consequence of that, demand for housing has also been rising. This explains, to some extent, the continued firmness of rentals as well as property prices.
While Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong has - in part, responding to sections of the community which have voiced misgivings about the growing number of foreigners - said that there would be a slowdown in the influx of immigrants, that by no means suggests that the tap will be turned off. PM Lee also made clear that Singapore will 'need new immigrants for the indefinite future'. Wooing foreign talent to sink roots here will therefore remain a key policy, even if the numbers are calibrated from time to time. The existing bigger population base, and continued inflow of new residents, will ensure a minimum level of demand for new housing every year.
Meanwhile, Singapore has emerged from the economic crisis relatively unscathed, as a safe haven, an oasis of stability and a well-functioning 'hub city' in the world's fastest growing region. It will continue to attract human and financial capital from the region and the world. In a sense, ultimately, owning a property in Singapore can be likened to having a stake in a company run by the Singapore government. Just like bluechip stocks, it is not inconceivable that well-managed countries and livable cities too should enjoy a premium.
Good Good..guess CDL share should jump next week...waiting for more capital gain...
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 22:26
hehehe, i managed to make it to the showroom at 9+, it was still open but just about to close by the time i left at 9.30. no more queue for 4 bedder showroom. :p latest is 200+ units sold out of less than 300 released. don't have exact figures. however, 2 whole stacks of 2+study on the 2 ends of the development released but ZERO takers. only the 1 bedrooms are sold out. 2, 2+study, 3 and 4 bedders still have available units. not as hot as optima but not too bad considering last monday's announcement. Headline but not really that attention grabbing i feel. i think it won't be so easy to sell out judging from the 2 whole stacks of 2+ study no takers at all.
Yes! Your guesses are around there. The showroom is indeed very packed the 4 bedder which is on the 2nd floor of the showroom you cannot happy happy just walk up and view. You need to queue because they scared too many people on the 2nd floor wait the floor collapse! Sort of like waiting for the corresponding number of audience to come down before you and your friends / agent can go up! Wah Lan A!
But having said that, I was a bit disappointed they giving Homo Tiles for the flooring; the 2nd bedroom is a tad smaller and overall impression of the project and its finishing is so-so only... :o
hehehe, i managed to make it to the showroom at 9+, it was still open but just about to close by the time i left at 9.30. no more queue for 4 bedder showroom. :p latest is 200+ units sold out of less than 300 released. don't have exact figures. however, 2 whole stacks of 2+study on the 2 ends of the development released but ZERO takers. only the 1 bedrooms are sold out. 2, 2+study, 3 and 4 bedders still have available units. not as hot as optima but not too bad considering last monday's announcement. Headline but not really that attention grabbing i feel. i think it won't be so easy to sell out judging from the 2 whole stacks of 2+ study no takers at all.
Why no takers for the 2 whole stacks of 2+study at the two ends of the development? Is there something wrong with them? :confused:
Allthepies
25-09-09, 22:36
i'm interested to know how this will affect the price in the surrounding area; 2 bedders at 786sqft only going for ~900psf.
Think owners of Carabelle, Botannia, Infiniti owners can reduce their selling prices to less than 800psf given tat these 3 locations r far worse than Hundred Trees, more crowded and older :)
i'm interested to know how this will affect the price in the surrounding area; 2 bedders at 786sqft only going for ~900psf.
Think owners of Carabelle, Botannia, Infiniti owners can reduce their selling prices to less than 800psf given tat these 3 locations r far worse than Hundred Trees, more crowded and older :)
well...u can wait long longbb
Allthepies
25-09-09, 22:56
well...u can wait long longbb
why?? :) with Hundred Trees so many units left, why not? :tongue3: implying that demand in that area is not as strong as expected, bubbble bursting first at clementi AYE?:D
Why no takers for the 2 whole stacks of 2+study at the two ends of the development? Is there something wrong with them? :confused:
stacks 3,8,11,15,19,20 & 24 are 2+study . They only launched stacks 8,15 &19 in the morning when i was there. WHEN I left at 2 pm stacks 8 & 19 were sold out with maybe 2-3 units left on stack 15. So unless they release new stacks at the last minute before closing I am not sure what you mean by no takers for 2 whole stacks.
why?? :) with Hundred Trees so many units left, why not? :tongue3: implying that demand in that area is not as strong as expected, bubbble bursting first at clementi AYE?:D
Can you guys please get your facts right before posting. I was there in the morning & early afternoon. I noted the no. of stacks released & sold by the time I left at 2pm today. 11 stacks out of 19 stacks released completely sold out . So I would conservatively estimate that at least 65-70% of units were sold. I believe this is good demand by any standard.
Allthepies
25-09-09, 23:22
Can you guys please get your facts right before posting. I was there in the morning & early afternoon. I noted the no. of stacks released & sold by the time I left at 2pm today. 11 stacks out of 19 stacks released completely sold out . So I would conservatively estimate that at least 65-70% of units were sold. I believe this is good demand by any standard.
It will be good if u can furnish us with the take-up rate for 3,3+S and 4 bedders. These are the units with >1mil quantum. The take-up rate of these larger units is a better reflection of the demand.
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 23:23
sorry to have started the confusion guys. :ashamed1: let me clarify post by post.
I was there at 9.30 just before the close so maybe mine is a little more updated.
I believe more stacks have been released but the take up rate is still the same 65 to 70% of released units sold and forgot to congratulate you on your purchase. :)
Can you guys please get your facts right before posting. I was there in the morning & early afternoon. I noted the no. of stacks released & sold by the time I left at 2pm today. 11 stacks out of 19 stacks released completely sold out . So I would conservatively estimate that at least 65-70% of units were sold. I believe this is good demand by any standard.
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 23:26
the two 2+study stacks which are released (probably after you left) but zero take up are stacks 3 and 24. I think the reason for this is that they are at 2 extreme ends facing AYE yet not much of a pool view.
stacks 3,8,11,15,19,20 & 24 are 2+study . They only launched stacks 8,15 &19 in the morning when i was there. WHEN I left at 2 pm stacks 8 & 19 were sold out with maybe 2-3 units left on stack 15. So unless they release new stacks at the last minute before closing I am not sure what you mean by no takers for 2 whole stacks.
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 23:31
i only saw 4 bedders released 35 units, about half are sold. not sure about the other 2 categories (but take up rate should be better). ave price is around 1.3m or just under 900psf.
It will be good if u can furnish us with the take-up rate for 3,3+S and 4 bedders. These are the units with >1mil quantum. The take-up rate of these larger units is a better reflection of the demand.
bargain hunter
25-09-09, 23:42
the 786sq ft 2 bedders are going for 940psf to 10xxpsf so average is around just under 800k. But yeah, i think those other condos 2 bedders prices should be capped below 800k as well.
i'm interested to know how this will affect the price in the surrounding area; 2 bedders at 786sqft only going for ~900psf.
Think owners of Carabelle, Botannia, Infiniti owners can reduce their selling prices to less than 800psf given tat these 3 locations r far worse than Hundred Trees, more crowded and older :)
the two 2+study stacks which are released (probably after you left) but zero take up are stacks 3 and 24. I think the reason for this is that they are at 2 extreme ends facing AYE yet not much of a pool view.
Can you guys please get your facts right before posting. I was there in the morning & early afternoon. I noted the no. of stacks released & sold by the time I left at 2pm today. 11 stacks out of 19 stacks released completely sold out . So I would conservatively estimate that at least 65-70% of units were sold. I believe this is good demand by any standard.
I get the picture now. Stacks 3 and 24 were released later, after jsh has left in the afternoon.
Maybe in the evening the showroom has run out of buyers, or the buyers have run out of steam ...
the 786sq ft 2 bedders are going for 940psf to 10xxpsf so average is around just under 800k.
How times have changed. Now even West Coast and Ang Mo Kio are talking about $1000+ psf !!!??? :doh:
Last time that was supposed to be prime district pricing.
Very soon, even Johor Bahru will be $1,000+ psf.
I've always been puzzled, now somehow convinced that Singaporean are quite ok with road traffic noise, it appears to me that near highway projects are not discounted vs. quieter projects.
I've always been puzzled, now somehow convinced that Singaporean are quite ok with road traffic noise, it appears to me that near highway projects are not discounted vs. quieter projects.
Yep now there is one seller and many buyers, so everyone get caught up with the hype, they will be heavily discounted vis a vis quieter projects in the resale market, when all the hype has died and there are many sellers and few buyers. Economics 101.
So any buyers on this forum buy for own stay? I am trying to find out why they buy? It is already stated by a former resident that this location is not convenient as it is not near MRT at all, it is diffferent if you try to walk once or twice to try out and having to walk to MRT everyday. All amenities also must walk so far, or must drive out.
Also why must buy this development? All units AYE facing or afternoon sun facing, if it was me I would just walk away as no facing is good, so why compromise? You may stay there for life if you cant get sellers, aircon the whole day? Electricity bill will kill you, don't open windows for the source of discomfort? Why pay so much to suffer in stuffy house? Unless I can afford a no compromises private property, I would rather stay in quiet, breezy and nice HDB, with market and food stalls and all amenities imaginable at your door step.
I am curious, to why people buy into such developments for own stay.
Kenshinto80
26-09-09, 06:16
So any buyers on this forum buy for own stay? I am trying to find out why they buy? It is already stated by a former resident that this location is not convenient as it is not near MRT at all, it is diffferent if you try to walk once or twice to try out and having to walk to MRT everyday. All amenities also must walk so far, or must drive out.
Also why must buy this development? All units AYE facing or afternoon sun facing, if it was me I would just walk away as no facing is good, so why compromise? You may stay there for life if you cant get sellers, aircon the whole day? Electricity bill will kill you, don't open windows for the source of discomfort? Why pay so much to suffer in stuffy house? Unless I can afford a no compromises private property, I would rather stay in quiet, breezy and nice HDB, with market and food stalls and all amenities imaginable at your door step.
I am curious, to why people buy into such developments for own stay.
People buy for different reasons. Some people value privacy and do not like markets, foodstalls or Kopi Tiam at doorstep. Anyway, the marketing of the landscaping and facilities by CDL is excellent. The marketing team of CDL did a good job....just look at the website on how they crave out "Hundred Trees" concept and associated it with memories. It is a very unique home no doubt... this Hundred Trees. :)
People buy for different reasons. Some people value privacy and do not like markets, foodstalls or Kopi Tiam at doorstep. Anyway, the marketing of the landscaping and facilities by CDL is excellent. The marketing team of CDL did a good job....just look at the website on how they crave out "Hundred Trees" concept and associated it with memories. It is a very unique home no doubt... this Hundred Trees. :)
The marketing is indeed good. But I still can't get over the fact that it does not have a rubbish chute in the unit. I wonder why CDL start off with this design, just like Botannia.
the 786sq ft 2 bedders are going for 940psf to 10xxpsf so average is around just under 800k. But yeah, i think those other condos 2 bedders prices should be capped below 800k as well.
The other 2 condo 2 bedders are bigger by 100 to 200 sq ft. if the reference price of hundred trees is any guide, those other condos should exceed 800k
Sunnysideup
26-09-09, 11:09
I still dont understand why is there a rush for new condos. You buy now with 20% and only enjoy it 3 yrs later. For current offerings, they give you planter boxes, balcony (somemore 2 in this development for 4 bedder), bay window and worse of all homo tiles. For 900psf price level, there are lots of value buy out there if we are not fixated on spanking new condos.
Property_Owner
26-09-09, 11:54
I still dont understand why is there a rush for new condos. You buy now with 20% and only enjoy it 3 yrs later. For current offerings, they give you planter boxes, balcony (somemore 2 in this development for 4 bedder), bay window and worse of all homo tiles. For 900psf price level, there are lots of value buy out there if we are not fixated on spanking new condos.
Who understand? The 3 project near 100 tress are selling cheaper, who no one rush to buy?
Optima was launch 8xx to 9xx right? Casa Merah was selling 7xx then, why people still choose optima?
Allthepies
26-09-09, 12:10
Who understand? The 3 project near 100 tress are selling cheaper, who no one rush to buy?
I don't think so, now sellers at these 3 projects (botannia/carabelle/infiniti) are asking for similar prices to Hundred Trees even though these 3 projects are even further from Clementi central and amenities. So which will u choose if u die die have to buy here? :2cents:
Property_Owner
26-09-09, 12:31
I don't think so, now sellers at these 3 projects (botannia/carabelle/infiniti) are asking for similar prices to Hundred Trees even though these 3 projects are even further from Clementi central and amenities. So which will u choose if u die die have to buy here? :2cents:
did they sell 200 units within hours?
Sunnysideup
26-09-09, 12:46
at current interest rate and over valued HDB prices, most pple will be comfortable to launch into new condos pushing 1000psf. let see how will they react when interest creep up to 4% at TOP. Similarly if 200 units can be snapped up in a matter of hours, let reverse the scenario that pple can also exit in masses when things turn bad. well for me i am not a risk taker so i never dare venture into 800 psf leashold let alone 1000psf fh.
The fear of missing the boat is here...
People buy because there are people who will buy from them later on.. so far so good...
Mass market condo should be $600- $700 psf.. about $100 to $200 psf over executive condos.
add $200 psf for FH
add $100 psf for near MRT
add another $100 psf for near city
so the prices here seems a little high.... but if you are rich.. who cares..
The fear of missing the boat is here...
People buy because there are people who will buy from them later on.. so far so good...
Mass market condo should be $600- $700 psf.. about $100 to $200 psf over executive condos.
add $200 psf for FH
add $100 psf for near MRT
add another $100 psf for near city
so the prices here seems a little high.... but if you are rich.. who cares..
Fear itself is highly contagious. Dilute it with losing makes such a lethal blend probably only Singapore has such exclusivity to this potion :D
The fear of missing the boat is here...
Mass market condo should be $600- $700 psf.. about $100 to $200 psf over executive condos.
add $200 psf for FH
Bro, will that make hundred trees under the $800 - $900 psf range as it is not a 99LH, though not 100% FH either. The average selling price of $895 makes it within the range, though nearer to the higher side.
hey guys, can you please stop doubting the fact that 100 Trees is doing well ? stop counting which blocks sold, which ones no takers, etc.... I break the news the preview units sold out and ppl question me. another user gave u exact blocks that were sold, and there are still ppl questioning. alamak... :doh: This CDL project is launched at the right time with the right price (just below $900psf and with small quantum) , it's doing well. For whatever reason it doesn't matter. The fact is, pty market now is going up. If u still think no a crash is coming, that's just in self denial. So now is what are you going to do with it. Cash out and profit from current trend, or go in hoping more is to come. Take a view, and do something. Talking here is useless.
hey guys, can you please stop doubting the fact that 100 Trees is doing well ? stop counting which blocks sold, which ones no takers, etc.... I break the news the preview units sold out and ppl question me. another user gave u exact blocks that were sold, and there are still ppl questioning. alamak... :doh: This CDL project is launched at the right time with the right price (just below $900psf and with small quantum) , it's doing well. For whatever reason it doesn't matter. The fact is, pty market now is going up. If u still think no a crash is coming, that's just in self denial. So now is what are you going to do with it. Cash out and profit from current trend, or go in hoping more is to come. Take a view, and do something. Talking here is useless.
Well obviously there are 5 groups of pple:
1- Pple who already profit from it - i.e those who already bot 6mths back during lows or recently sold theirs.. these pple have mixed views, if drop can buy more condos at cheaper price, if price up then sell their units which they bot at the lowest point
2- Trying to sell now in this uptrend and profit from it, hoping prices will keep going up
3- Chiong in buy buy buy, scare miss more boats even if boats got hole also dun care..any boat is a gd boat
4- Waiting for further crash in the market and hope many tio burn b4 chionging in for firesales
5- Cannot afford, nothing to do, come forum tcss
anything categories I might have missed out??
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/static/image/images/bt_wkend_masthead.jpg
CDL Sells Over 200 Units At Hundred Trees
The Business Times Weekends
Saturday, 26 September 2009
Sales at City Developments Ltd’s (CDL) Hundred Trees condo in the West Coast area crossed the 200-unit mark by 6pm yesterday.
As at that time, CDL had released 280 of the total 396 units in the 956-year leasehold condo, the developer said in a release yesterday evening.
Earlier yesterday afternoon, CDL said that it had released a selected number of units for soft launch at an average price of $895 psf.
However, BT understands that the above pricing was for the initial batch of about 150 units released on Thursday for a preview to former owners of Hong Leong Garden Condominium (from whom CDL bought the site for the project), CDL staff and a few special guests.
A further 130 units released yesterday were probably priced slightly higher, market watchers reckoned.
CDL is also offering interest absorption scheme (IAS) in exchange for a 2.5% price premium. CDL did not provide a breakdown on how many buyers picked up their units on IAS.
Although IAS was scrapped on Sept 14, a developer can still offer the scheme if before that date, it had entered into an agreement on this with a partner bank and had already offered units in the development for sale under IAS before Sept 14.
BT understands that Hundred Trees’ 200-unit sales figure as at 6pm yesterday includes nearly 40 units sold on Thursday. All 22 one-bedroom units have been sold and the two-bedders are substantially sold too.
One-bedders were priced from around $498,000 while prices of two-bedroom apartments began from about $655,000.
'The development has a high proportion of smaller units. That makes the lump-sum investment affordable,' observed Knight Frank chairman Tan Tiong Cheng. 'At that kind of price level, they have sold that many units ... they’ve done a good job. The project has a nice name: Hundred Trees.'
'Demand does not seem to be severely tempered by the recent government measures to cool the market,' he added.
DMG & Partners Securities analyst Brandon Lee said: ‘In the mass market, anything priced between $800 psf and $900 psf will sell. Basically, there’s a lack of alternative investment options out there amidst the current low interest rate environment and a lack of faith in financial products.’
CDL said yesterday evening that it will be releasing more units in the development to cater to the ‘overwhelming response’. Hundred Trees is being marketed by CB Richard Ellis and Huttons.
CDL, part of the Hong Leong Group, is familiar with the West Coast area. In recent years, it has developed Monterey Park Condominium. And recently, it completed Botannia condo, a joint development with CapitaLand. ‘CDL knows it’s not that easy selling larger units in that location,’ a market watcher observed.
Sources said that potential buyers who had submitted blank cheques by Thursday night balloted for queue numbers issued yesterday morning when the showflat opened. The balloting however was for a queue number to enter the showflat, and not for selection of units, unlike the ballot conducted in late July for the sale of units at Optima @Tanah Merah condo.
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/common/mast_home.gif
Buying interest in new homes still high
The Straits Times
Saturday, 26 September 2009
Home buyers are still biting, if the preview sales at Hundred Trees condo in the West Coast area are anything to go by.
City Developments (CDL) said it had sold 200 of the 280 units released so far as at 6pm yesterday. Buyers included a significant number of HDB upgraders, sources said.
The 956-year leasehold condo at the former Hong Leong Garden condominium site boasts 396 units priced from $500,000 to $2.6 million.
The first 40 units – out of 150 units released at $895 psf on average – were sold on Thursday at a preview for staff and former owners of Hong Leong Garden condo, sources said.
Another 130 units – some with better attributes – were then released yesterday at slightly above $900 psf, they said.
The 22 one-bedders at 484 sq ft, priced from $500,000, have sold out.
And most of the 66 two-bedders of between 689 sq ft and 786 sq ft have been sold. Prices started from $615,000.
Four out of six penthouses, priced from $1.28 million, have been sold.
The interest absorption scheme (IAS) is available at a premium of about 2.5% of the sale price.
CDL could not say how many took up the scheme as it was still collating the IAS take-up figures. Sources said it is likely to be within the typical range of about 20% to 30%.
The Government removed the scheme on Sept 14 as part of a package of measures to calm the rapidly heating market, though developers which had offered their projects for sale before that day can continue to offer the IAS.
CDL bought the 266,076 sq ft Hong Leong Garden condo site in a collective sale in early 2007 for $131.5 million, or about $363 psf of potential gross floor area, including development charge.
Last weekend, another condo, the 1,040-unit The Interlace at Alexandra Road, sold 233 units – indicating that buying interest in new homes remains high.
However, some experts say they would not be surprised to see a slight slowdown in overall housing demand as some buyers think twice about their purchases. Demand would be more project- or location-specific, they said.
Upcoming launches include the freehold 278-unit Cyan in Bukit Timah.
4 out of 6 penthouses sold.
2 more to go.
Squall8888
26-09-09, 16:14
Heard from my friend all 2 bedders are gone. Is it true that property is that hot now? Less than 3 days only.
Bro, will that make hundred trees under the $800 - $900 psf range as it is not a 99LH, though not 100% FH either. The average selling price of $895 makes it within the range, though nearer to the higher side.
Just drop by to see the showroom and it was packed with ppl.
Well, I cant find any more units that are less than $895 psf. The remaining ones which are 2 bedders under the Normal Progress scheme is between $948 (2nd floor) - $1026 psf (12th floor). For the IAS, you add in another 2%. The 3-bedders under the Normal Progress scheme is $925 psf (4th floor)floor) - $938 psf (12th floor).
I wonder how CDL can announce that average selling price is $895 psf:eek:
Probably it has increase after just 1 day of launch...
Heard from my friend all 2 bedders are gone. Is it true that property is that hot now? Less than 3 days only.
hmm, i only heard that 1 bedders are sold out yesterday.
When I left 1 hour ago, there are still 2 bedders... already snapped up within that 1 hour?
hmm, i only heard that 1 bedders are sold out yesterday.
When I left 1 hour ago, there are still 2 bedders... already snapped up within that 1 hour?
Why rush???????
Plenty of units for sales next door......
Carabelle.......
Botannia.......
Infinity......
Monterey Park.....
The Parc......
And BIG BIG empty land next to all these condos ready for sale....
ya, u wait somemore for new developers to come by to bid for those empty plots of land, u later find yourself asking "wa lao, that area developers asking $1200 psf ? :doh: and nearby Hundred Tress that time during launch was only asking for $900 psf! or carabelle or whatever asking for only 1000 psf ready to move in with ready tenant pool! "
:banghead: :banghead:
Why rush???????
Plenty of units for sales next door......
Carabelle.......
Botannia.......
Infinity......
Monterey Park.....
The Parc......
And BIG BIG empty land next to all these condos ready for sale....
You are right. I left with he same feeling. Personanly, I will not pay $$ for this project.
But then, many other people think otherwise, esp those already bought the units there. They could have their own reasons. To me, I dont agree with the price, don't like unit layout, the facing/direction and if t is niether near nor far from Clementi MRT station.
4 out of 6 penthouses sold.
2 more to go.
this is old news already. all PH sold.
xtink, I like ur post. :)
Bro, will that make hundred trees under the $800 - $900 psf range as it is not a 99LH, though not 100% FH either. The average selling price of $895 makes it within the range, though nearer to the higher side.
Yes, just that it is a little high for the smaller units.
However, this project will be attractive if compared to coastal heights...
Both should be similar in pricing and both without MRT. However, one is L99 and the other is 956...plus low rise development. Give it another 10 to 20 years and there might be a chance for a increase in plot ratio...
20% to start the ball rolling... if got holding power... no need to worry too much about downside. A likely winner if so.
;)
Just drop by to see the showroom and it was packed with ppl.
Well, I cant find any more units that are less than $895 psf. The remaining ones which are 2 bedders under the Normal Progress scheme is between $948 (2nd floor) - $1026 psf (12th floor). For the IAS, you add in another 2%. The 3-bedders under the Normal Progress scheme is $925 psf (4th floor)floor) - $938 psf (12th floor).
I wonder how CDL can announce that average selling price is $895 psf:eek:
Probably it has increase after just 1 day of launch...
i have noticed that in most "news" for recent launch, so-called average psf price is actually min psf price.
Why rush???????
Plenty of units for sales next door......
Carabelle.......
Botannia.......
Infinity......
Monterey Park.....
The Parc......
And BIG BIG empty land next to all these condos ready for sale....
There's an unit at the Infiniti 1238sqft, going at 800psf neg. Though facing AYE, noise level is not that extreme.
For a FH at 800psf or slightly below, itzi still cheap.?? Compared to LH condos of 700psf-750psf.
bargain hunter
26-09-09, 21:07
traditionally, older condos have a discount in price vs new launches (for some strange reason that i disagree with), so i thought while they deserve a quantum premium of hundred trees, just below 800k is quite fair. above 800k for a 2 bedder is rather expensive.
The other 2 condo 2 bedders are bigger by 100 to 200 sq ft. if the reference price of hundred trees is any guide, those other condos should exceed 800k
bargain hunter
26-09-09, 21:17
Please check out the secondary market. the asking prices for Botannia and Carabelle are high but the actual transactions are not taking place in large numbers. The number of calls to a mortgage officer's h/p has just dried up. Likewise for a resale agent. I am all ready to exit my investment property.
There's an unit at the Infiniti 1238sqft, going at 800psf neg. Though facing AYE, noise level is not that extreme.
For a FH at 800psf or slightly below, itzi still cheap.?? Compared to LH condos of 700psf-750psf.
I would suggest you go to www.ura.gov.sg (http://www.ura.gov.sg) to look at the actual transacted price in this project. Look much lesser then $800 psf. Can always bargain for resale units.
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