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rogerang
24-05-09, 00:56
Hi, this development is slated to launch in mid June 09. Preview launch likely one week before public launch. Im in the project core team, so I hope to be able to update forumers here with the latest updates.

Interested buyers may register with me for the preview(early bird disc not announced yet). We are a team of 5 committed to help you secure your choice units (overnight Q if necessary).

Our sucessful effort in securing many choice units in The Wharf Residence in the recent launch for our clients are encouraging and we hope to duplicate it in this project.
Hope to have your strong support. Call roger 97708558 or
check out www.rogerang.com (http://www.rogerang.com) for latest updates. thanks.

rogerang
24-05-09, 01:13
NEW LAUNCH @WOODLEIGH CLOSE
99 Years Leasehold







High Ground with Panoramic View







Minutes Walk to Potong Pasir MRT Station and







Woodleigh MRT Station (operational ready)







Future Serangoon Mega Mall







5 Towers of 15 Storeys High-Rise Condominium Project










330 Units










Typical Unit Types









1







Bedroom–Approx. 400 sqft







2







Bedroom–Approx. 800 sqft








2







+ Study–Approx. 900 sqft








3







Bedroom–Approx. 900 sqft to 1,100 sqft








4







Bedroom–Approx. 1,300 sqft










Full Condominium Facilities









Lap Pool




Spa Pool




Pool Pavilion / Pool Deck




Function Room




Gymnasium




Changing Rooms




Steam Rooms




Jacuzzi




Children’s Play Area



Tennis Court


Fitness Area




BBQ Area




Water Features / Feature Pond

gfoo
24-05-09, 01:57
At least you didn't try to add untruths in your marketing pitch. I applaud your honesty

soiv123
24-05-09, 02:29
Hi, any idea the estimated psf? Have been eyeing this area...

Cheers!

new2mondrian
25-05-09, 09:35
Hi Roger,

What is the indicative psf at this point for the project? What is the pricing level for a studio (4XXsqft) unit?

I understand that the actual launch will be 1-2mths away right? When will be the earliest possible date that you can share the floor plans? My in-law might be keen to get a unit.

By the way, do you know of any small-sized unit for sale at Euro-Asia? My in-law is keen. Plse pm me. Thanks.

ray.97727777
01-06-09, 16:03
Hi Home Upgraders, Property Investors,

The current development is target tobe launched sometime in mid June, 2009:
============================
Development Name: <Yet to be officially named>
District: 13
Address: 2, 4, 6 & 8 Woodleigh Close (Tentative)
Type of Development: Condominium
- 5 blocks of 15 storey
- Basement carpark (333 lots)
- Facilities (Olympic length pool, Gym, Tennis
court, Club house, BBQ deck etc)
- Landscape design by Peridian whose projects
include Marina Sands etc
Tenure: Leasehold, 99 years
Est. T.O.P/Legal Completion:
June 2012 / June 2014
No. of Units: 330
- 1 bedroom 410-430 sqft
- 2 bedroom 820-880 sqft
- 2+1 bedroom 940-960 sqft
- 3 bedroom 940-1100 sqft
- 3(Dual Key) bedroom
- 4 bedroom 1300-1400 sqft
Area information provided is tentative and may changed.

Key notes:
- Elevated ground
- Unobstructed view
- Situated in a Private estate (Central yet quiet)
- 5 minutes away from Potong Pasir/Woodleigh MRT station
- Less than 10 mins to City via MRT
- 1 MRT station away from work in progress Serangoon Mega Mall
- Within 1km from reputable schools (St Andrew's Village, Cedar Primary
School)
- Near to reputable schools (Maris Stella, Pei Chun Primary School)
- Next to Stamford American International School
Close to Australian / Fench International School.
- Easy access to PIE & CTE
=============================

Interested buyers who would like to have more information (i.e. psf est) or for preview, I can be reach at 9772-7777. Or email at [email protected] ([email protected])

Note that I can help secure choice units for this development.

Or if anyone require assistance on any property related matters, I can be of help and can be reach at the same number mentioned above.

I assure you service of the highest quality that you may have difficulty finding in this industry.

Thank you.


Cheers,
Ray

wqmai
02-06-09, 20:56
Hi Home Upgraders, Property Investors,

The current development is target tobe launched sometime in mid June, 2009:
============================
Development Name: <Yet to be officially named>
District: 13
Address: 2, 4, 6 & 8 Woodleigh Close (Tentative)
Type of Development: Condominium
- 5 blocks of 15 storey
- Basement carpark (333 lots)
- Facilities (Olympic length pool, Gym, Tennis
court, Club house, BBQ deck etc)
- Landscape design by Peridian whose projects
include Marina Sands etc
Tenure: Leasehold, 99 years
Est. T.O.P/Legal Completion:
June 2012 / June 2014
No. of Units: 330
- 1 bedroom 410-430 sqft
- 2 bedroom 820-880 sqft
- 2+1 bedroom 940-960 sqft
- 3 bedroom 940-1100 sqft
- 3(Dual Key) bedroom
- 4 bedroom 1300-1400 sqft
Area information provided is tentative and may changed.

Key notes:
- Elevated ground
- Unobstructed view
- Situated in a Private estate (Central yet quiet)
- 5 minutes away from Potong Pasir/Woodleigh MRT station
- Less than 10 mins to City via MRT
- 1 MRT station away from work in progress Serangoon Mega Mall
- Within 1km from reputable schools (St Andrew's Village, Cedar Primary
School)
- Near to reputable schools (Maris Stella, Pei Chun Primary School)
- Next to Stamford American International School
Close to Australian / Fench International School.
- Easy access to PIE & CTE
=============================

Interested buyers who would like to have more information (i.e. psf est) or for preview, I can be reach at 9772-7777. Or email at [email protected] ([email protected])

Note that I can help secure choice units for this development.

Or if anyone require assistance on any property related matters, I can be of help and can be reach at the same number mentioned above.

I assure you service of the highest quality that you may have difficulty finding in this industry.

Thank you.


Cheers,
Ray



Can indicate preview date and location. Would like to go down take a look. If convenience, can post here so no need to email/sms, etc. and all can know.

ray.97727777
04-06-09, 00:40
Launch date tenttaive schedule on June 12, 2009 (Friday).

Launch location/show flat is at the project site itself (i.e. Woodleigh Close)

If anyone is interested to view this development, please contact me at 97727777 in advance and I am happy to serve you with no obligation.

wqmai
04-06-09, 09:52
Launch date tenttaive schedule on June 12, 2009 (Friday).

Launch location/show flat is at the project site itself (i.e. Woodleigh Close)

If anyone is interested to view this development, please contact me at 97727777 in advance and I am happy to serve you with no obligation.

Thanks a lot. Will contact you then.

Regulators
04-06-09, 14:30
As Queen says, another one bites the dust

RamRam
04-06-09, 23:31
Sneaked into the actual site this evening and the show flat is at most 20% complete. Asked one of the contractors when they are going to handover to the developer. He replied next Friday(12th June). Hence I do not think the launch is on 12th June. I am also eyeing this project for my own stay. I was told the next project meeting bet agents and developer is Wed, 10th Jun. Information after that date will be more reliable. Keep a look out for posting then.
:2cents:

smallant
04-06-09, 23:41
Bruddy... the golden question is how much psf ? :scared-5:

viosrider
05-06-09, 00:05
Think it is going to be ard early $7xx. The next door Blossom launch price is avg $650-$700. Does it make any sense, higher than a FH property? In terms of distance just slightly nearer to MRT only. Market is picking up, so developer is taking this chance to upz their price also. :scared-5:

kal
05-06-09, 07:07
the studio is almost $850-900psf..

wkang1970
05-06-09, 08:19
My 2 cts worth.

Will u stay a house forever? If not, why bother whether freehold or leasehold? It is good to be near mrt, future selling will be easlier and better value. Anyway, i think $7xxpsf (leasehold) for potong pasir and woodleigh is reasonable, it is mins away from CBD. In high time, u need to pay around high of $8xxpsf around this area. Furthermore, place like tanah merah, bedok reservoir, not even close to CBD, are already selling around $7xxpsf.



Think it is going to be ard early $7xx. The next door Blossom launch price is avg $650-$700. Does it make any sense, higher than a FH property? In terms of distance just slightly nearer to MRT only. Market is picking up, so developer is taking this chance to upz their price also. :scared-5:

cheerful
05-06-09, 09:15
Perhaps if Blossoms then selling ard 600+ to 700+ during launch (not even in the 07s), it makes sense to do a comparison .. but muz it be that if bedok, tanah merah selling ard 7xx psf or above, then muz follow suit???

Won't tt sound like the developers all v good in setting expectations by joining forces tog :confused:

cndomay
07-06-09, 08:35
Anyone knows the area well...

Is it opposite or close to the old cemetry?
Is the expressway running infront of it?
How many mins walk to the nearst supermarket, hawker centre, coffee shop?
Smooth driving: out for work and return from work?

Wah, lots of questions....cheers

wqmai
07-06-09, 09:50
Anyone knows the area well...

Is it opposite or close to the old cemetry?
Is the expressway running infront of it?
How many mins walk to the nearst supermarket, hawker centre, coffee shop?
Smooth driving: out for work and return from work?

Wah, lots of questions....cheers

Haha maybe I answer some questions that I know.

1) Not sure if near cemetery as I dun knw where is the cemetery.

2) No expressway running in front. It is some distance away from PIE, after Potong Pasir.

3) Think about 20 minutes walk to Potong Pasir shopping area but the shopping there is not that fantastic. Mac, hawker, small supermarkets. As for the other direction up Upper Serangoon also quite some dist away.

4) Driving up or down upper serangoon should be okie if used the overhead road.

If going back from PIE, definitely there be some jams near the big junction where serangoon ends or the junction turning into upper serangoon. Nowadays a lot of constructions there. After all completed, should be better.

If you are driving through little India back to Woodleigh during peak hr, that be fantastically slow, hehe. The whole stretch of serangoon road is packed. Thats why St Michael value thorough high, is not very fantastic as you be passing by the jam everyday back home.

cheerful
07-06-09, 14:45
hi ... I think that question about cemetry, probably he is referring to Mt Vernon? Potential traffic congestion that he or she may face if buying at woodleigh as u've already pointed out .... could be a daily thingy, so good to check out the actual location & observe the traffic ...
:2cents:

cndomay
07-06-09, 15:04
The former cemetry ( Bidadari ) most probably is where the Woodleigh MRT is located.
In future the cleared cemetry will house 40,000 hdb units . Area is about 57 ha, roughly size of Botanic Gdns.
For 2 bedder ( 850SF) at ard $690K, its abt $810PSF - even higher then Kovan Residences which has better amenities across the road.
Pricing is still high as market interest has picked up in the last few weeks? Think the launch response to this projecct ( 330 units ) will be a good indicator of demand and/or perceived confidence.

cheerful
07-06-09, 15:57
[quote=cndomay]For 2 bedder ( 850SF) at ard $690K, its abt $810PSF - even higher then Kovan Residences which has better amenities across the road.
alamak, $/psf higher than woodsville 28 for units sold in mar-may 09 :doh:
(javascript:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=WOODSVILLE%2028&street_name=WOODSVILLE%20CLOSE&property_type_code=04');)

cheerful
07-06-09, 16:19
some old news pertaining to this development, for sharing....

Frasers Centrepoint Trust puts in top bid of S$88m for Woodleigh site (http://idealresidence.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/frasers-centrepoint-trust-puts-in-top-bid-of-s88m-for-woodleigh-site/)

Posted on June 24, 2008 by idealresidence
Frasers Centrepoint Trust puts in top bid of S$88m for Woodleigh site

SINGAPORE: Frasers Centrepoint Trust has put in the top bid of nearly S$88 million for a residential site at Woodleigh Close. The price works out to S$270 per square foot per plot ratio.

The next highest bid came from Hoi Hup Realty at about S$83 million. The lowest bid of S$74 million was put in by Sim Lian Land.

The Urban Redevelopment Authority received six bids in total when the tender closed on Tuesday.

The site at Woodleigh Close was launched for public tender on April 29.

The 99-year leasehold parcel spans nearly 10,800 square metres, with a maximum gross floor area of some 30,200 square metres.

Property consultants CB Richard Ellis said based on the top bid of S$270 per square foot plot ratio, the estimated breakeven cost of the new project is around S$650 to S$700 per square foot.

It expects the units to be sold between S$800 and S$850 per square foot. – CNA/ac

cndomay
07-06-09, 19:38
Yep, buyers would have to help developer pay for their high bid of 88mil for the site. Ouch - Sim Lian should have got it for 74mil.

Made a trip to the site. Not sure I got the right one. Is it beside Blossoms at Woodleigh?

Showflat could not be found. No sign board either.

Woodleigh MRT is very near but the MRT is not opened yet: saw the grilles still down. When is it due to open?

Forgot to assess the walking distance to Pot Psir MRT: Is is truly 10 min walk?

The overhead expressway starts further up: so no noise issue.

The huge ground opposite seems serene unless one think of its past ( cemetry).

Roads: Frankly, driving in this area has nver been pleasant, due to many traffic junctions.

Access to shops: Not too good. Have to walk down to the Pot Psr HDB area.

Overall, will have to think v hard to plonk my hard-earned $ here. Cheers.

new2mondrian
08-06-09, 11:32
Anyone knows the area well...

Is it opposite or close to the old cemetry?
Is the expressway running infront of it?
How many mins walk to the nearst supermarket, hawker centre, coffee shop?
Smooth driving: out for work and return from work?

Wah, lots of questions....cheers

Here's my answers to your questions:

1) It is opposite the old Bidari cemetary, currently being Woodleigh Park. Depending on how u see it, it now overlooks a huge expanse of greenery, which will be developed into mixed commercial and residential units under URA MasterPlan 2008.

2) No. It is really quite far from the expressway. One Leicester is closest to CTE/PIE, followed by Woodsville 28 and Leicester Road condos, followed by the whole Potong Pasir HDB estates. By the time u get to Woodleigh, you really don't hear a thing. I currently stay at a condo along Leicester Road, and I don't hear any CTE/PIE noise cos the noise has been blocked out by One Leicester.

3) Amenities wise, it is definitely bad cos Potong Pasir is really under-served and under-developed. If you stay there, the best bet is to take a drive down to Kovan where there's Cold Storage and NTUC. But if u don't mind, it will be a good 10 mins walk to the nearest Potong Pasir coffee shops.

4) Smooth driving - this is something which I can really vouch for. There are many ways to get round the island when one stays at Potong Pasir. It is at the confluence of PIE (which takes one all the way to Tuas/Bt Timah), and CTE (which is to town). You enter CTE at the Upper Serangoon entry, AFTER the bulk of the morning jam which is from Punggol/SengKang to AMK Ave 1. CTE traffic from Serangoon to town is usually smooth in the morning (between 815am to 9am) cos the gantry charges $2.50. Another alternative is via Whampoa - Novena route, which is cheaper cos the gantry there charges $0.50 before 8.30am.. There is normally not much congestion there in the morning and evenings too. We have never ever used Little India route. So really not sure. But also depends on where u work too.

One thing when one buys into Potong Pasir. You buy into a great deal of potential due to all the vacant land slated for mixed commercial/residential devt, upcoming developments such as Woodsville Interchange (which makes driving a lot easier and faster) and American International School and NexMall and the Paya Lebar/Serangoon rejuvenation; but with all the potential devt u also buy into a great deal of construction noise for the next 10 years.

Potong Pasir is not a place that people buy to flip overnight. You need to have the ability to endure the noise arising from all the construction and see the area developed before there is a significant gain in property prices. My 2 cents. There's just too much vacant land all around Potong Pasir right now. So that in itself is a mixed bag of blessings.

wkang1970
08-06-09, 12:26
Totally agreed. This place is a hidden gem.



Here's my answers to your questions:

1) It is opposite the old Bidari cemetary, currently being Woodleigh Park. Depending on how u see it, it now overlooks a huge expanse of greenery, which will be developed into mixed commercial and residential units under URA MasterPlan 2008.

2) No. It is really quite far from the expressway. One Leicester is closest to CTE/PIE, followed by Woodsville 28 and Leicester Road condos, followed by the whole Potong Pasir HDB estates. By the time u get to Woodleigh, you really don't hear a thing. I currently stay at a condo along Leicester Road, and I don't hear any CTE/PIE noise cos the noise has been blocked out by One Leicester.

3) Amenities wise, it is definitely bad cos Potong Pasir is really under-served and under-developed. If you stay there, the best bet is to take a drive down to Kovan where there's Cold Storage and NTUC. But if u don't mind, it will be a good 10 mins walk to the nearest Potong Pasir coffee shops.

4) Smooth driving - this is something which I can really vouch for. There are many ways to get round the island when one stays at Potong Pasir. It is at the confluence of PIE (which takes one all the way to Tuas/Bt Timah), and CTE (which is to town). You enter CTE at the Upper Serangoon entry, AFTER the bulk of the morning jam which is from Punggol/SengKang to AMK Ave 1. CTE traffic from Serangoon to town is usually smooth in the morning (between 815am to 9am) cos the gantry charges $2.50. Another alternative is via Whampoa - Novena route, which is cheaper cos the gantry there charges $0.50 before 8.30am.. There is normally not much congestion there in the morning and evenings too. We have never ever used Little India route. So really not sure. But also depends on where u work too.

One thing when one buys into Potong Pasir. You buy into a great deal of potential due to all the vacant land slated for mixed commercial/residential devt, upcoming developments such as Woodsville Interchange (which makes driving a lot easier and faster) and American International School and NexMall and the Paya Lebar/Serangoon rejuvenation; but with all the potential devt u also buy into a great deal of construction noise for the next 10 years.

Potong Pasir is not a place that people buy to flip overnight. You need to have the ability to endure the noise arising from all the construction and see the area developed before there is a significant gain in property prices. My 2 cents. There's just too much vacant land all around Potong Pasir right now. So that in itself is a mixed bag of blessings.

new2mondrian
08-06-09, 15:59
site plan for those interested...

cndomay
08-06-09, 21:17
Thanks all for the valued info.

I am rather intrigued by the statement here that it was expected to be launched at $800 - $850 PSF. Amazing because the bid was made in June 08 when world/sgp economy was not in its present ( down ) state.

Will today's buyer be willing to accept the asking rates set in better times in June 08.


some old news pertaining to this development, for sharing....

Frasers Centrepoint Trust puts in top bid of S$88m for Woodleigh site (http://idealresidence.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/frasers-centrepoint-trust-puts-in-top-bid-of-s88m-for-woodleigh-site/)

Posted on June 24, 2008 by idealresidence
Frasers Centrepoint Trust puts in top bid of S$88m for Woodleigh site

SINGAPORE: Frasers Centrepoint Trust has put in the top bid of nearly S$88 million for a residential site at Woodleigh Close. The price works out to S$270 per square foot per plot ratio.

The next highest bid came from Hoi Hup Realty at about S$83 million. The lowest bid of S$74 million was put in by Sim Lian Land.

The Urban Redevelopment Authority received six bids in total when the tender closed on Tuesday.

The site at Woodleigh Close was launched for public tender on April 29.

The 99-year leasehold parcel spans nearly 10,800 square metres, with a maximum gross floor area of some 30,200 square metres.

Property consultants CB Richard Ellis said based on the top bid of S$270 per square foot plot ratio, the estimated breakeven cost of the new project is around S$650 to S$700 per square foot.

It expects the units to be sold between S$800 and S$850 per square foot. – CNA/ac

toufu
08-06-09, 21:31
I was told the studio will be sold at $900psf. Isn't it too expensive for leasehold condo unit at this area? Could have bought freehold at citysquare by topping up a little bit more.

viosrider
09-06-09, 00:22
Is the $850 to $900 PSF the average price for this development? If yes, then I need to seriously consider this LH development. Woodsville 28 is offering some $750 to $760 PSF under IAS the last time I heard from the mkt agent. It is a big contrast between both... Mmm, considering distance to MRT I guess Woodsville 28 is still better in terms of location. Amenities wise Woodleigh has complete facilities & not too crowded when turning out to main road? The problem is I'm looking at 2+1 for own stay and I have missed the launch at Woodsville 28. Anyone have rough indication how much is 2+1 unit at mid floor? Thanks.:)

cheerful
09-06-09, 10:41
Thanks all for the valued info.

I am rather intrigued by the statement here that it was expected to be launched at $800 - $850 PSF. Amazing because the bid was made in June 08 when world/sgp economy was not in its present ( down ) state.

Will today's buyer be willing to accept the asking rates set in better times in June 08.

I think viosrider was saying something like Woodsville 28 slightly better ... that's quite true. This one not exactly above MRT (like W28). Think probably about 50m at least .... maybe like that can have tt kinda indicative pricing??

jhokc
09-06-09, 13:43
Woodleigh Grove is quiet. but this Development is facing the main road. not sure if it is noisy as this road is consider quite heavy.

I know opposite is the former graveyard. - now turn into a park.

:ashamed1:

cheerful
09-06-09, 14:16
I know opposite is the former graveyard. - now turn into a park.

:ashamed1:

i think it will be for future hdb development... but don't when :confused:

new2mondrian
09-06-09, 19:20
I think viosrider was saying something like Woodsville 28 slightly better ... that's quite true. This one not exactly above MRT (like W28). Think probably about 50m at least .... maybe like that can have tt kinda indicative pricing??

Actually a few differences from Woodsville 28:

1) W28 is apartment status, not condo status. A case in point, there is no water feature at entrance and no tennis court. The land plot is also much smaller.

2) W28 is at Woodsville Close where there is mixed devt (eg Indian/Chinese Clan associations and Rajoo Casket Shop), one exit to main road shared by many condo owners, and the main point is all 2-bedder and 2+1bedder units at W28 are west-facing for the entire unit. To have the noon sun shining thru the living room and all bedroom windows for a good half of the day reduces the livability of the unit.

3) W28 was launched in Sep08, when all the Bear Stearns/sub-prime news was shaking up the market. There were hardly any takers for W28 for the longest time till FCL relaunched it early this year and reduced the asking price. The timing has changed.

I am also interested in this devt, but the indicative pricing for studio units is really unpalatable. Let's hope FCL lowers it during VIP launch.

My 2 :2cents: .

cheerful
09-06-09, 21:30
MND just adds 2 sites to H2 reserve list land sales schedule:- a residential site at Bartley Road/Lorong How Sun and a commercial and residential plot at New Upper Changi Road/Bedok North Drive.

The residential site at Bartley Road/Lorong How Sun is located next to the new Bartley Circle Line (CCL) Station. Would this be a better buy, if you can wait?

southpark2000
09-06-09, 21:31
Actually a few differences from Woodsville 28:

1) W28 is apartment status, not condo status. A case in point, there is no water feature at entrance and no tennis court. The land plot is also much smaller.

2) W28 is at Woodsville Close where there is mixed devt (eg Indian/Chinese Clan associations and Rajoo Casket Shop), one exit to main road shared by many condo owners, and the main point is all 2-bedder and 2+1bedder units at W28 are west-facing for the entire unit. To have the noon sun shining thru the living room and all bedroom windows for a good half of the day reduces the livability of the unit.

3) W28 was launched in Sep08, when all the Bear Stearns/sub-prime news was shaking up the market. There were hardly any takers for W28 for the longest time till FCL relaunched it early this year and reduced the asking price. The timing has changed.

I am also interested in this devt, but the indicative pricing for studio units is really unpalatable. Let's hope FCL lowers it during VIP launch.

My 2 :2cents: .


Wah....got official definition boh? ref: apartment vs condo -URA? :scared-5:

So u mean the likes of Nova 88, Newton Suites, Regency Suites, Linc, Lincoln Modern, etc. to name a few are NOT condo? :scared-4:

new2mondrian
10-06-09, 09:48
Wah....got official definition boh? ref: apartment vs condo -URA? :scared-5:

So u mean the likes of Nova 88, Newton Suites, Regency Suites, Linc, Lincoln Modern, etc. to name a few are NOT condo? :scared-4:

Extracted from the URA website-

What is the difference between condominium and apartment? Condominium and apartments are different classifications specified in planning permissions issued by URA. You can read more about the differences at this url: http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dcdrhb_d0e4.htm (http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dcdrhb_d0e4.htm).

qianfugui
10-06-09, 11:06
Wah....got official definition boh? ref: apartment vs condo -URA? :scared-5:

So u mean the likes of Nova 88, Newton Suites, Regency Suites, Linc, Lincoln Modern, etc. to name a few are NOT condo? :scared-4:

If you look at URA, all these are classifierd as apartment status.

Yes, a very clear cut definition for a condo (bigger plot, with much landspacing and landscape, more full basic facilities like a grounded swimming pool and not a lap pool in the sky, preferably also with a grounded tennis court ).

Simple as that. People who buy properties should be very clear if they are buying a "condo" status or "apartment" status just like if they are buying a FH vs LH properties.

qianfugui
10-06-09, 11:20
If you look at URA, all these are classifierd as apartment status.

Yes, a very clear cut definition for a condo (bigger plot, with much landspacing and landscape, more full basic facilities like a grounded swimming pool and not a lap pool in the sky, preferably also with a grounded tennis court ).

Simple as that. People who buy properties should be very clear if they are buying a "condo" status or "apartment" status just like if they are buying a FH vs LH properties.

Just to add fuel to fire ... all potential buyers and tenants are easily "swan" by a Condo and not an apartment status flat ceteris paribus .... unless location and accessibility (proximity to MRT stn ). Quite common sense thinking... :D :D :D

ray.97727777
10-06-09, 15:55
Hi Friends,

FYI, the developer has postpone the launch date one week later to June 20(Sat).

For those who is interested to get more information on the unit size / no. of units for each room type / est. psf as well as draft site plan, please sms at 9772-7777 or email me at [email protected]

I look forward to hear from you.



Cheers,
Ray
9772-7777

viosrider
10-06-09, 21:44
Hi Friends,

FYI, the developer has postpone the launch date one week later to June 20(Sat).

For those who is interested to get more information on the unit size / no. of units for each room type / est. psf as well as draft site plan, please sms at 9772-7777 or email me at [email protected]

I look forward to hear from you.



Cheers,
Ray
9772-7777

Hi Ray,

You got PM.
Regards,

southpark2000
11-06-09, 08:04
Extracted from the URA website-

What is the difference between condominium and apartment? Condominium and apartments are different classifications specified in planning permissions issued by URA. You can read more about the differences at this url: http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dcdrhb_d0e4.htm (http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dcdrhb_d0e4.htm).





Interesting.........quotes from yr URL....


"PART 1

1 OVERVIEW

1 Residential developments in Singapore are broadly classified according to the following:

(a) REGISTRATION INSTRUMENT

They may be landed (with land title or strata title) or non-landed (with strata title or strata lease) properties.


(b) DENSITY

They may be the low, medium and high density housing development.


(c) HOUSING TYPE

They may be:
i) Detached houses (bungalows), semi-detached houses, terrace houses, strata detached houses (strata bungalows), strata semi-detached houses, strata terrace houses and mixed strata landed housing. They are low density housing. ii) Condominium flats development on sites of 0.4 ha or larger.iii) Non-condominium flats development on small sites below 0.4 ha.


2 Flats development whether condominium or not, are mainly medium and high density housing. The low intensity and low-rise flats are low density housing."


......


"FLATS

FLATS DEVELOPMENT
1 Flats or apartments in Singapore are non-landed housing developments. Each unit is for residential purpose only. It has its own separate access usually taken from a common property area. The units can either be strata titled or be on lease title. They form the bulk of medium to high density housing in Singapore.


2 The building height of flats varies from 4 storeys to 30 storeys or even higher. Depending on the available land area, the site could contain one or more apartment blocks. In either case, it is usually intensively developed with minimum communal open space under the common ownership of the residents.


3 Strata subdivision is allowed for the residential units. Flats development will not be accorded condominium status as they do not satisfy condominium criteria.

PARAMETERS
5 The parameters for flat developments are:


(a) Site Area (i) Unlike condominium housing development, there is generally no minimum control on the site area as long as the site can be developed to meet the flats boundary setback requirements. *However, developments involving breakaway from existing landed housing (eg. breakaway of a few terraced houses from an existing streetblock) would be subject to the minimum plot size requirements below. [*updated as at Nov 2004]"





"6 CONDOMINIUM FLATS

CONDOMINIUM FLATS
1 Unlike flat developments, condominium housing requires a larger land area. Condominium flats, too, form the bulk of medium to high density housing in Singapore. There are usually more generous provision of communal and recreational facilities in condominium flats. The communal facilities are under the common ownership of the residents and are provided for their enjoyment. The residential units are only allowed strata subdivision.


2 In larger sites, the building height of condominium flats may vary among the various blocks of flats. The development could comprise a mix of 4 storeys low-rise blocks and high-rise blocks of 30 storeys and above subject to the allowable height limit. For small sites, there could be only space for one apartment block up to the allowable height, but with generous provision of communal and recreational facilities.

PARAMETERS

4 The parameters for condominium flats are :


(a) Site Area (i) The minimum site area for a condominium development is 0.4ha. This is to ensure that there is enough space to provide for communal and recreational facilities in a luxurious green setting.


(b) Site Coverage

Site coverage is a measurement of the footprint of all buildings expressed as a percentage of the nett site area. It is an indication of how much the site has been built on. The maximum site coverage allowed for condominium development is 40% (including covered car parks)."



I see no "must have waterfall and tennis court = condo"; only distinction b/w condo and non-condo flats are the following:

1. Size of the site at least 0.4 ha
2. Site coverage must not exceed 40%

....dunno what you are reading that I am not....so can advise?
:ashamed1:
Anyhow:
- W28 site is 0.4 ha
- It has max. coverage of 40% (actually slightly more but kanna waived) :)

new2mondrian
11-06-09, 09:29
Interesting.........quotes from yr URL....


I see no "must have waterfall and tennis court = condo"; only distinction b/w condo and non-condo flats are the following:

1. Size of the site at least 0.4 ha
2. Site coverage must not exceed 40%

....dunno what you are reading that I am not....so can advise?
:ashamed1:
Anyhow:
- W28 site is 0.4 ha
- It has max. coverage of 40% (actually slightly more but kanna waived) :)

There is no specific requirement for any waterfall or tennis court to be a condo. What I said in my earlier posting was that W28 devt itself has no water feature and tennis court. Apologies if I was not clear in my post.

As for whether condo status or not, yes, it is granted by URA after the devt has satisfied its criteria. But for W28, despite its site is 0.4ha, it is clearly apartment status. You go to URA website, go to the link "private property transactions with caveats lodged" and you can see all the caveats lodged against W28 are classified "Apartment" status by URA.

Street Namehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('STREET_NAME');)Typehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PROPERTY_TYPE');)No. of Unitshttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('COVER');)Price
($)http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PRICE');)Land/
Floor Area (Sqft)http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('FLOOR_LAND_AREA_SQF');)Unit Price ($psf)http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('PRICE_PSF');)Date of Option Exercised / Sales Agreement Signedhttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (javascript:setSortBy('CONTRACT_DATE');)WOODSVILLE 28 (javascript:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=WOODSVILLE%2028&street_name=WOODSVILLE%20CLOSE&property_type_code=04');)WOODSVILLE CLOSEApartment1796,0001,033770May-09WOODSVILLE 28 (javascript:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=WOODSVILLE%2028&street_name=WOODSVILLE%20CLOSE&property_type_code=04');)WOODSVILLE CLOSEApartment1790,0001,033765May-09

Hope this clarifies. :)

cheerful
11-06-09, 10:22
There is no specific requirement for any waterfall or tennis court to be a condo. What I said in my earlier posting was that W28 devt itself has no water feature and tennis court. Apologies if I was not clear in my post.

As for whether condo status or not, yes, it is granted by URA after the devt has satisfied its criteria. But for W28, despite its site is 0.4ha, it is clearly apartment status. You go to URA website, go to the link "private property transactions with caveats lodged" and you can see all the caveats lodged against W28 are classified "Apartment" status by URA.


oooo .. yah not cheap hor for Apt status. Though it's v near MRT, but LH99 still kinda ex ... got waterfall anot not so important, but think no tennis court, so not exactly full facilities ..

new2mondrian
11-06-09, 10:50
oooo .. yah not cheap hor for Apt status. Though it's v near MRT, but LH99 still kinda ex ... got waterfall anot not so important, but think no tennis court, so not exactly full facilities ..

cheap or not really depends. cos the squarish plot of land right outside PP MRT station, which is really right next to W28 is probably to be developed as commercial use. If a shopping center comes up right beside W28, the price will soar. But then again, right now everything is simply vacant land. What one buys into is simply potential potential potential... What is the price tag for potential? I really don't know. And also depends on who wins the next GE at PP right? That will affect the timing and pace at which PP gets developed.

cheerful
11-06-09, 10:54
True oso lah .. potential is there though invisible. But at least wat is visible now is the proximity to MRT lor ... somewat like those projects above kovan mrt, LH but not exactly cheap IMO.

southpark2000
11-06-09, 21:38
There is no specific requirement for any waterfall or tennis court to be a condo. What I said in my earlier posting was that W28 devt itself has no water feature and tennis court. Apologies if I was not clear in my post.

As for whether condo status or not, yes, it is granted by URA after the devt has satisfied its criteria. But for W28, despite its site is 0.4ha, it is clearly apartment status. You go to URA website, go to the link "private property transactions with caveats lodged" and you can see all the caveats lodged against W28 are classified "Apartment" status by URA.

Street Namehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:setSortBy%28%27STREET_NAME%27%29;)Typehttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:setSortBy%28%27PROPERTY_TYPE%27%29;)No. of Unitshttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:setSortBy%28%27COVER%27%29;)Price
($)http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:setSortBy%28%27PRICE%27%29;)Land/
Floor Area (Sqft)http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:setSortBy%28%27FLOOR_LAND_AREA_SQF%27%29;)Unit Price ($psf)http://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:setSortBy%28%27PRICE_PSF%27%29;)Date of Option Exercised / Sales Agreement Signedhttp://www.ura.gov.sg/WebResources/images/common/sortIcon.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:setSortBy%28%27CONTRACT_DATE%27%29;)WOODSVILLE 28 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=WOODSVILLE%2028&street_name=WOODSVILLE%20CLOSE&property_type_code=04%27%29;)WOODSVILLE CLOSEApartment1796,0001,033770May-09WOODSVILLE 28 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=WOODSVILLE%2028&street_name=WOODSVILLE%20CLOSE&property_type_code=04%27%29;)WOODSVILLE CLOSEApartment1790,0001,033765May-09

Hope this clarifies. :)

Ah so.....understand.... thanks for the clarification.... ;)

gfoo
11-06-09, 22:25
just looked at the woodleigh area on google earth.

my god, it's right across the road from biddadari cemetary, and reacheable from town via one of the most congested industrial cross junctions in Singapore, and downwind from mt vernon Why in the world would anyone pay $900psf for a 99yr? even a FH isn't worth it at that price.

the exclusive 'expat' bungalow community at woodleigh park is in the northwest, far far away from biddadari so please dun get suckered in if the developers use this as a selling point, esp for developments in woodleigh close like the new FCL.

miya
11-06-09, 23:01
oooo .. yah not cheap hor for Apt status. Though it's v near MRT, but LH99 still kinda ex ... got waterfall anot not so important, but think no tennis court, so not exactly full facilities ..

So, you mean that valuation for apts should be lower than condos?

Regulators
12-06-09, 04:00
OMG a cemetary within 1km of the condo is a no no man. kitchener, boon keng or st michael is still a better buy than woodleigh.



just looked at the woodleigh area on google earth.

my god, it's right across the road from biddadari cemetary, and reacheable from town via one of the most congested industrial cross junctions in Singapore, and downwind from mt vernon Why in the world would anyone pay $900psf for a 99yr? even a FH isn't worth it at that price.

the exclusive 'expat' bungalow community at woodleigh park is in the northwest, far far away from biddadari so please dun get suckered in if the developers use this as a selling point, esp for developments in woodleigh close like the new FCL.

Tan Toh Ping
12-06-09, 06:50
OMG a cemetary within 1km of the condo is a no no man. kitchener, boon keng or st michael is still a better buy than woodleigh.

Its already not a cemetey from yr 2006.
Look at bishan as it was once cemetery also, but look at it now...do you think bishan properties are cheap? or ppl still mind so much abt living near that bishan once cemetery area?

new2mondrian
12-06-09, 09:15
Actually my 2 cents to all these is, it all comes down to the eventual pricing vis-a-vis the entire market. Based on current pricing, $7xxpsf for the launch will be a reasonable range, based on comparable pricing elsewhere. But based on FCL's indicative price list, the $7xxpsf is actually applicable to 2-bedders and above. So it is not too bad. It is the studio units that are over-priced. But of course when u compare it to 2005's pricing, when a unit at Viz@Holland was launched for $7xxpsf, then everything is expensive. So it depends on what is one's point of reference. :)

On the cemetary issue, personally I am fine with it. In fact when it comes down to Chinese cemetary, the Chinese (our early fore-fathers) are the most particular when it comes to choosing the fengshui of where they bury their ancesters. So the places for Chinese cemetaries are in fact places with good fengshui. The Chinese believe that the location of the ancestral graves will have a profound impact on the prosperity of future generations. In fact, all the prime prime areas now used to be Chinese cemetaries, from Holland to Bt Timah (the whole area in front of Nanyang Primary used to be a cemetary) to Bishan. It's just that they were all cleared between the 70s to the 80s that no one remembered now that they are living on cemetary land. But you look at the house prices and demand there now. Cemetary is not an issue to me personally.


==================================================
No. of Units: 330 (from 7xx psf onwards)
- 1 bedroom: 418 sqft 30 units
- 2 bedroom: 823-878 sqft 105 units
- 2+1 bedroom: 956 sqft 30 units
- 3 bedroom: 942-1088 sqft 120 units
- 3(Dual Key) bedroom: 1149 sqft 30 units
- 4 bedroom: 1366 sqft 15 units

Indicative psf Price range:
This is the likely price range subject to changes at Developer’s discretion:
- 1 bedroom: $900psf - $1000psf
- 2 bedroom: $780psf - $820 psf
- 3 bedroom: $750psf - $780psf
- 4 bedroom: $750psf

Area, psf and price information provided is tentative and is subject to change.

giapster
12-06-09, 09:53
The cemetary history of the surrounding region will be forgotten by the future generations once the land is developed and human activities returned to add buzz to the region, just like what happens to Bishan. Furthermore, the high ground where the current cluster of private housing is sitting on around Woodleigh Close is not even cemetary land but once the site of a kampung village.....Just to share some history....the land for the new FCL development was last used by the Singapore National Printers....

gfoo
12-06-09, 10:12
N2M is right. Parc Mondrian's avg price in 2008 was about $600psf, and for a FH. that's a fair price. $900psf for a LH is not.

cheerful
12-06-09, 10:17
So, you mean that valuation for apts should be lower than condos?

IMO condo status is preferred (over apt status) .. think this is echoed by another forumer in this thread ;)

Anyway, I was referring to W28 ... but let's come back to this new LH one ...

cheerful
12-06-09, 10:21
N2M is right. Parc Mondrian's avg price in 2008 was about $600psf, and for a FH. that's a fair price. $900psf for a LH is not.

Well, N2M also pointed out a commonly known fact about chinese in old days believed that finding a good piece FS land is important for burial.

Unfortunately, u can't turn back the clock & compare like that rite .. since we are now talking about a new launch .. unless the mkt turns another way then maybe the developer will adjust the price?? But definitely, PM being FH is a better choice though not sure about the convenience of location in relation to proximity to MRT (vs. this new launch).

new2mondrian
12-06-09, 10:26
N2M is right. Parc Mondrian's avg price in 2008 was about $600psf, and for a FH. that's a fair price. $900psf for a LH is not.

That's why there is a rush for Parc Mondrian right now. I was recently offered $100k above bank valuation for my unit, which I turned down. I believe in the long term potential in this place. After all, if I don't want to stay, I can always tenant it out. No lack of tenants once the American International School comes up next door.

cheerful
12-06-09, 10:29
You see with this how to price it low leh .... :(

"Frasers Centrepoint Trust has put in the top bid of nearly S$88 million for a residential site at Woodleigh Close. The price works out to S$270 per square foot per plot ratio.

Property consultants CB Richard Ellis said based on the top bid of S$270 per square foot plot ratio, the estimated breakeven cost of the new project is around S$650 to S$700 per square foot.

It expects the units to be sold between S$800 and S$850 per square foot. – CNA/ac

cndomay
13-06-09, 07:45
Its already not a cemetey from yr 2006.
Look at bishan as it was once cemetery also, but look at it now...do you think bishan properties are cheap? or ppl still mind so much abt living near that bishan once cemetery area?

It takes a long time for such past to be forgotten. We are now talking abt a projt to be launched situated infront of a land previously a cemetery.

The sentiment is totally different.

There was a posting which even tried to persuade that land prevoiusly cemeteries are good feng shui and properties in it will have good value.

In that case, I was thinking whether a developer should put his advert as " Bring cheque. Property next to auspicious site. Must buy!"

haha just a humourous thought....

jhokc0007
13-06-09, 23:56
The floor plan is out. . Unfortunately, there is no balcony but just a planter area. Have to see the actual showroom and model :ashamed1:

proud owner
14-06-09, 02:04
It takes a long time for such past to be forgotten. We are now talking abt a projt to be launched situated infront of a land previously a cemetery.

The sentiment is totally different.

There was a posting which even tried to persuade that land prevoiusly cemeteries are good feng shui and properties in it will have good value.

In that case, I was thinking whether a developer should put his advert as " Bring cheque. Property next to auspicious site. Must buy!"

haha just a humourous thought....

ever drive thru Kheam hock rd ? right thru to Siam rd? look at the amount of nice big houses there ..with the grave within 100 m ....

i almost bought a semi D there in 2006 ... should have ... plans been made to exume the cemetery ..and the landed houses there are now worth alot more than when i saw them in 2006

Geylang OKT
14-06-09, 07:54
D13 location is littered with cemetries, graves and crematoriums :D

Geylang OKT
14-06-09, 07:57
And if you ever wonder why some "landed" properties are selling so cheap, you can be sure that the developer has bought very, very cheap "sewage land" from the govt. Make sure you check out the sewage system b4 you commit or else you are buying a house full of shit :tongue3: :D

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you unearth several manholes in very close vicinity to your property. T junctions, cemeteries or prayer houses behind the property, sewage points. suicide or murder in the house.... all account for big no nos in the purchase. Donch regret.... make sure you do your due diligence first. :D

Regulators
14-06-09, 19:46
it is Sime Rd, not Siam Rd. i used to live along University Rd. The environment in that area is very nice but driving past Sime Rd at nite really gives one the creeps with many hauntings there over the years.
ever drive thru Kheam hock rd ? right thru to Siam rd? look at the amount of nice big houses there ..with the grave within 100 m ....

i almost bought a semi D there in 2006 ... should have ... plans been made to exume the cemetery ..and the landed houses there are now worth alot more than when i saw them in 2006

gfoo
15-06-09, 15:25
Just got this invite:

Estimated Price for 1 and 2 bedroom from about $400k ($960psf?)
Estimated Price for 3 and 4 bedrooom from about $940k ($1000psf?)

IF this project proves to be a sellout, and shows people are willing to pay $1000psf for 99 year cemetary land, i'm going to seriously consider migrating. I don't want to bring up my kids in a nation of morons - if i did, i would much rather bring them up in the US - at least i can subscribe to playboy there cheap.

One questions for the lau chiaus and gurus: Does the law of relativity apply to private property in Singapore? If so and compared to cemetary condos, wouldn't prime orchard props be now worth about $50,000psf?

Regulators
15-06-09, 15:37
with developers like FEO pricing suburban projects like hillvista at 9xx to 1kpsf, how do u apply theory of relativity? That being said it shud be gd news for residents in D1
Just got this invite:

Estimated Price for 1 and 2 bedroom from about $400k ($960psf?)
Estimated Price for 3 and 4 bedrooom from about $940k ($1000psf?)

IF this project proves to be a sellout, and shows people are willing to pay $1000psf for 99 year cemetary land, i'm going to seriously consider migrating. I don't want to bring up my kids in a nation of morons - if i did, i would much rather bring them up in the US - at least i can subscribe to playboy there cheap.

One questions for the lau chiaus and gurus: Does the law of relativity apply to private property in Singapore? If so and compared to cemetary condos, wouldn't prime orchard props be now worth about $50,000psf?

gfoo
15-06-09, 15:50
with developers like FEO pricing suburban projects like hillvista at 9xx to 1kpsf, how do u apply theory of relativity? That being said it shud be gd news for residents in D1

If cemetary condos are priced at $1kpsf, then hillvista should be at $5kpsf, Sembawang about $2kpsf, D15 about $7kpsf etc etc

$1kpsf for cemetary land. sheesh

august
15-06-09, 16:34
Just got this invite:

Estimated Price for 1 and 2 bedroom from about $400k ($960psf?)
Estimated Price for 3 and 4 bedrooom from about $940k ($1000psf?)

IF this project proves to be a sellout, and shows people are willing to pay $1000psf for 99 year cemetary land, i'm going to seriously consider migrating. I don't want to bring up my kids in a nation of morons - if i did, i would much rather bring them up in the US - at least i can subscribe to playboy there cheap.

One questions for the lau chiaus and gurus: Does the law of relativity apply to private property in Singapore? If so and compared to cemetary condos, wouldn't prime orchard props be now worth about $50,000psf?

haha this is already a nation of morons when they repeatedly cast their votes for the gang in white ~ :p

yokoosi
15-06-09, 18:19
What is the fair price to purchase for the 99LH Woodleigh new launch?

new2mondrian
15-06-09, 20:00
What is the fair price to purchase for the 99LH Woodleigh new launch?

Hahaha.... it really depends on which school of thought you subscribe to! Can be as low as $200psf as some forumers suggest, or as high as $1000psf! :)

gfoo, actually I am surprised that the price they quoted you is so high. So far the indicative pricing I got from the ERA agents (which is the marketing agency for this project) is between $750psf to $830psf for all 2bedders to 4bedders, which works out to about $6xxK for a 2-bedder and $7xxK to $8xxK for a 3-bedder.

Honestly, I think we have all got past the cemetary land issue. In the first place, Singapore being small as it is, which area does not have a cemetary? And in the second place, the cemetary is across the road and not on this plot. And in the third place, the cemetary has been cleared and it is now Woodleigh Park. So it is really caveat emptor. As long as the buyer is comfortable with this, there is really nothing much to shout about. The same thing can be said about reclaimed land too. Marina is on reclaimed land. Huge parts of the East Coast is on reclaimed land. Pandan and Teban Gardens is on reclaimed land. Singapore being small as it is, land is a definitely a scarce resource. At the end of the day, it is a willing buyer vs a willing seller. Who is to call the buyers morons at the end of the day? It is all a matter of perspective.

Whilst everyone can appreciate the bay-view of the Sail, but not every family can afford the psf pricing. At the end of the day, as long as the unit is for self-stay, I do not think that paying $7xxpsf in D13 is insane. For $850K, one can get a decent sized 3-bedder at about 1150sqft. With 3 decent sized bedrooms, there is adequate space for the family, there is a nice nursery for the baby, ample storage space for all the toys, and probably also space for that live-in domestic helper, all at the city fringe. But for $850k in D1 or D9, what one gets is probably a studio or a 2-bedder. With cramped living space, livability and quality of life gets compromised. After all, it is difficult to appreciate the vast gardens, the proximity to Orchard, when a family of 3/4 is cramped side by side in a mousehole. But of course, if money is never a concern, or the party involved does not mind being highly leveraged for that potential upside, then I suppose the sky is the limit right? If that case, maybe a GCB at D9 might be the best alternative. :)

My 2 cents. Hope I didn't offend any party with the above posting. If I did, pls accept my sincere apologies.

KT_Lim
15-06-09, 20:20
if u are migrating, can you do us singaporeans a favor by selling ur sail at 500psf to me? we definitely need to do our utmost to bring people to their senses!



If cemetary condos are priced at $1kpsf, then hillvista should be at $5kpsf, Sembawang about $2kpsf, D15 about $7kpsf etc etc

$1kpsf for cemetary land. sheesh

gfoo
15-06-09, 20:25
if u are migrating, can you do us singaporeans a favor by selling ur sail at 500psf to me? we definitely need to do our utmost to bring people to their senses!

sure thing mate - i'll put you on a really long waiting list

gfoo
15-06-09, 20:57
Hahaha.... it really depends on which school of thought you subscribe to! Can be as low as $200psf as some forumers suggest, or as high as $1000psf! :)

gfoo, actually I am surprised that the price they quoted you is so high. So far the indicative pricing I got from the ERA agents (which is the marketing agency for this project) is between $750psf to $830psf for all 2bedders to 4bedders, which works out to about $6xxK for a 2-bedder and $7xxK to $8xxK for a 3-bedder.

Honestly, I think we have all got past the cemetary land issue. In the first place, Singapore being small as it is, which area does not have a cemetary? And in the second place, the cemetary is across the road and not on this plot. And in the third place, the cemetary has been cleared and it is now Woodleigh Park. So it is really caveat emptor. As long as the buyer is comfortable with this, there is really nothing much to shout about. The same thing can be said about reclaimed land too. Marina is on reclaimed land. Huge parts of the East Coast is on reclaimed land. Pandan and Teban Gardens is on reclaimed land. Singapore being small as it is, land is a definitely a scarce resource. At the end of the day, it is a willing buyer vs a willing seller. Who is to call the buyers morons at the end of the day? It is all a matter of perspective.

Whilst everyone can appreciate the bay-view of the Sail, but not every family can afford the psf pricing. At the end of the day, as long as the unit is for self-stay, I do not think that paying $7xxpsf in D13 is insane. For $850K, one can get a decent sized 3-bedder at about 1150sqft. With 3 decent sized bedrooms, there is adequate space for the family, there is a nice nursery for the baby, ample storage space for all the toys, and probably also space for that live-in domestic helper, all at the city fringe. But for $850k in D1 or D9, what one gets is probably a studio or a 2-bedder. With cramped living space, livability and quality of life gets compromised. After all, it is difficult to appreciate the vast gardens, the proximity to Orchard, when a family of 3/4 is cramped side by side in a mousehole. But of course, if money is never a concern, or the party involved does not mind being highly leveraged for that potential upside, then I suppose the sky is the limit right? If that case, maybe a GCB at D9 might be the best alternative. :)

My 2 cents. Hope I didn't offend any party with the above posting. If I did, pls accept my sincere apologies.

Your argument is fair and a very good one. Here's my humble flip side of the coin.

I'm not comparing woodleigh to orchard or marina bay, but to other city fringe properties. D15 OA in 1Q was going for $850psf, it's FH, within walking distance to the upcoming MRT, surrounded by amenities and malls. Other condos pre run-up in D15 were priced at $650-$750. Over at D5, prices in 1Q were sub $600psf. River Valley/Tanglin was about $1k.

My point is that the recent run up defies not only fundamentals and pricing benchmarks, but human decency as well when developers have this 'it's green shoots, so let's rip 'em and run' mentality.

True that every part of Singapore was once a cemetary - even Sentosa Cove sits on top a rumored WW2 killing field, ion orchard sits on an 1800s cemetary etc. But modern cemetaries like Bishan was given a much longer vesting period before pte and landed properties were put up for planning. Biddadari was cleared starting 2001 and completed in 2006.

My point as always, is pricing. Bishan started in the mid 80s really cheap due to the cemetary issue, and only started its run up in the 90s. but almost 2 decades separated the exhumation and when the first HDB families moved in. Woodleigh has barely seen a few years.

No doubt i'm gonna get flamed for minding my own business and i don't know why i bother. But potential buyers should do comparison studies first, and not just jump in just because it fits a budget. because at the end of the day, entry prices dictate the manner in which you exit.

cheerful
15-06-09, 22:43
Hmm ... for most people, if budget is not one of the more important factor for consideration (for owner-buyer) then wonder wat would it be?

Your intention may be good but not nec. every buyer is buying with the mentality of invest with 'entry' & 'exit'.

But u're rite to say that buyers should still shop around & compare the various locations .. this of cuz makes sense & even if with budget oso should practise that. Only thing is if the potential really really likes a place so much or so used to a vicinity, then buyer is not so logical liao lor ... look at the total sales in May, oso doesn't appear to be logical rt :p ..


No doubt i'm gonna get flamed for minding my own business and i don't know why i bother. But potential buyers should do comparison studies first, and not just jump in just because it fits a budget. because at the end of the day, entry prices dictate the manner in which you exit.

jitkiat
15-06-09, 23:04
Your argument is fair and a very good one. Here's my humble flip side of the coin.

I'm not comparing woodleigh to orchard or marina bay, but to other city fringe properties. D15 OA in 1Q was going for $850psf, it's FH, within walking distance to the upcoming MRT, surrounded by amenities and malls. Other condos pre run-up in D15 were priced at $650-$750. Over at D5, prices in 1Q were sub $600psf. River Valley/Tanglin was about $1k.

My point is that the recent run up defies not only fundamentals and pricing benchmarks, but human decency as well when developers have this 'it's green shoots, so let's rip 'em and run' mentality.

In that case, do you think it is a mistake for HDB to launch DBSS HDB flats priced from 500-700k at AMK, TPY, Boon Keng, Simei etc? Strangely, the buyers of all these glorified HDBs do not even care about whether got greens shoots or market is going to crash next year or not. And they are so excited after getting a 600k HDB. So getting a condo at Potong Pasir at 700k does not sound too illogical isn't it?

august
15-06-09, 23:38
In that case, do you think it is a mistake for HDB to launch DBSS HDB flats priced from 500-700k at AMK, TPY, Boon Keng, Simei etc? Strangely, the buyers of all these glorified HDBs do not even care about whether got greens shoots or market is going to crash next year or not. And they are so excited after getting a 600k HDB. So getting a condo at Potong Pasir at 700k does not sound too illogical isn't it?

there will always be buyers, comfortably leveraged or ridiculously overstretched, at different price tiers.

hdb buyers r most likely 1st time home owners, so sometimes emotion may get the better of reason

Regulators
16-06-09, 11:25
developers in that area sometimes use Boon Keng DBSS as comparison as a benchmark for pricing. They would always say "if DBSS can charge so much for public housing, why not pay slightly more for a condo in the vicinity..." :doh:



In that case, do you think it is a mistake for HDB to launch DBSS HDB flats priced from 500-700k at AMK, TPY, Boon Keng, Simei etc? Strangely, the buyers of all these glorified HDBs do not even care about whether got greens shoots or market is going to crash next year or not. And they are so excited after getting a 600k HDB. So getting a condo at Potong Pasir at 700k does not sound too illogical isn't it?

new2mondrian
16-06-09, 12:14
Your argument is fair and a very good one. Here's my humble flip side of the coin.

I'm not comparing woodleigh to orchard or marina bay, but to other city fringe properties. D15 OA in 1Q was going for $850psf, it's FH, within walking distance to the upcoming MRT, surrounded by amenities and malls. Other condos pre run-up in D15 were priced at $650-$750. Over at D5, prices in 1Q were sub $600psf. River Valley/Tanglin was about $1k.

My point is that the recent run up defies not only fundamentals and pricing benchmarks, but human decency as well when developers have this 'it's green shoots, so let's rip 'em and run' mentality.

True that every part of Singapore was once a cemetary - even Sentosa Cove sits on top a rumored WW2 killing field, ion orchard sits on an 1800s cemetary etc. But modern cemetaries like Bishan was given a much longer vesting period before pte and landed properties were put up for planning. Biddadari was cleared starting 2001 and completed in 2006.

My point as always, is pricing. Bishan started in the mid 80s really cheap due to the cemetary issue, and only started its run up in the 90s. but almost 2 decades separated the exhumation and when the first HDB families moved in. Woodleigh has barely seen a few years.

No doubt i'm gonna get flamed for minding my own business and i don't know why i bother. But potential buyers should do comparison studies first, and not just jump in just because it fits a budget. because at the end of the day, entry prices dictate the manner in which you exit.

Actually I have always appreciated your insights, and your knowledge of the local property market. I do agree that the recent run-up in pricing is not sustainable, and from a technical standpoint, a correction has to occur, esp since the underlying fault lines which led to this sub-prime/demand destruction/recession crisis still exists. But market can be irrational, since it is dictated by human behaviour. And in this part of the world, there is still a lot of liquidity in the system, largely due to years of high savings and our proximity to Asian countries such as China/Malaysia/Indonesia where old wealth exists and Singapore is regarded as a safe haven. Hence this may cushion the impact of the eventual correction. How far and how deep and how long any correction can happen, it is up to the market to eventually decide. No one ever has the benefit of hindsight.

My point of view is that should a property be purchased for self-stay, affordability and sustainability are the principal issues. Affordability requires one to have the means, even when one suffers a financial setback (such as retrenchment, paycut, illness), to continue maintaining the property and not let it be put up for a forced sale. And if one purchases a $800K mass-market property, in the event of a 25% correction, the book-loss will be capped at $200k, and there is always a natural HDB price support level for mass-market properties. But if one purchases a $1.5M property in the prime district, the book-loss can be easily $300-400K. It is a very different risk level altogether.

Sustainability means that the property is suited for one's lifestyle, and one can be happy living in it for at least the medium term. To a yuppie or a childless couple, staying in a studio along Oxley or at the Icon or Sail may be a great option. There are pubs below, great shopping, proximity to the workplace and of course the lure of staying next to a casino where there is entertainment round the clock. But to a family with children, needs become different. Then factors such as adequate living space for the children to romp around, ample storage for toys and plenty of bookshelves, a tranquil environment (hopefully not next to the scintillating lights of Orchard or a casino in my case), proximity to good schools or even a good public library such that the child can cultivate a reading habit all come into play. And should the unit be purchased for self-stay and is affordable and sustainable, then the entry price will not be of the principal concern since the owner is able to hold it through various property cycles.

The above does not just relate to the Woodleigh Close launch, but across all properties in general. I am a firm believer of being comfortably leveraged. Coming back to D13, Potong Pasir is really not suited to people which wish to flip it for a quick gain, as I mentioned before in other D13 threads. One needs to be able to hold it over the medium to long term to see the area developed. But it is not without its charm and its potential. And of course, for all property investors and buyers out there, I toally agree that it is key to do comparison studies at the end of the day. :)

Regulators
16-06-09, 13:59
you have also failed to point out what the future population of singapore is going to be like in 10 years time. I can safely say that our rate of influx of foreigners and population growth is definitely greater than growth in number of housing and please bear in mind that the land size is more or less a fixed constraint while population will continue to expand. There will come a time when Singapore will face a gross housing shortage like london and prices will reach fever pitch. it is not too hard to imagine that happening as singapore has yet to become a full blown cosmopolitan city. Also remember that we are much smaller than the size of london....:)



Actually I have always appreciated your insights, and your knowledge of the local property market. I do agree that the recent run-up in pricing is not sustainable, and from a technical standpoint, a correction has to occur, esp since the underlying fault lines which led to this sub-prime/demand destruction/recession crisis still exists. But market can be irrational, since it is dictated by human behaviour. And in this part of the world, there is still a lot of liquidity in the system, largely due to years of high savings and our proximity to Asian countries such as China/Malaysia/Indonesia where old wealth exists and Singapore is regarded as a safe haven. Hence this may cushion the impact of the eventual correction. How far and how deep and how long any correction can happen, it is up to the market to eventually decide. No one ever has the benefit of hindsight.

My point of view is that should a property be purchased for self-stay, affordability and sustainability are the principal issues. Affordability requires one to have the means, even when one suffers a financial setback (such as retrenchment, paycut, illness), to continue maintaining the property and not let it be put up for a forced sale. And if one purchases a $800K mass-market property, in the event of a 25% correction, the book-loss will be capped at $200k, and there is always a natural HDB price support level for mass-market properties. But if one purchases a $1.5M property in the prime district, the book-loss can be easily $300-400K. It is a very different risk level altogether.

Sustainability means that the property is suited for one's lifestyle, and one can be happy living in it for at least the medium term. To a yuppie or a childless couple, staying in a studio along Oxley or at the Icon or Sail may be a great option. There are pubs below, great shopping, proximity to the workplace and of course the lure of staying next to a casino where there is entertainment round the clock. But to a family with children, needs become different. Then factors such as adequate living space for the children to romp around, ample storage for toys and plenty of bookshelves, a tranquil environment (hopefully not next to the scintillating lights of Orchard or a casino in my case), proximity to good schools or even a good public library such that the child can cultivate a reading habit all come into play. And should the unit be purchased for self-stay and is affordable and sustainable, then the entry price will not be of the principal concern since the owner is able to hold it through various property cycles.

The above does not just relate to the Woodleigh Close launch, but across all properties in general. I am a firm believer of being comfortably leveraged. Coming back to D13, Potong Pasir is really not suited to people which wish to flip it for a quick gain, as I mentioned before in other D13 threads. One needs to be able to hold it over the medium to long term to see the area developed. But it is not without its charm and its potential. And of course, for all property investors and buyers out there, I toally agree that it is key to do comparison studies at the end of the day. :)

Geylang OKT
17-06-09, 05:38
If cemetary condos are priced at $1kpsf, then hillvista should be at $5kpsf, Sembawang about $2kpsf, D15 about $7kpsf etc etc

$1kpsf for cemetary land. sheesh

Geylang should be priced about $8k psf :D

Geylang OKT
17-06-09, 05:42
you have also failed to point out what the future population of singapore is going to be like in 10 years time. I can safely say that our rate of influx of foreigners and population growth is definitely greater than growth in number of housing and please bear in mind that the land size is more or less a fixed constraint while population will continue to expand. There will come a time when Singapore will face a gross housing shortage like london and prices will reach fever pitch. it is not too hard to imagine that happening as singapore has yet to become a full blown cosmopolitan city. Also remember that we are much smaller than the size of london....:)

I remember paying close to SGD200 per day for a really crappy room in a run down service apt just last year :(

Regulators
17-06-09, 13:38
just check up on the psf in central london. Their 1k to 2k psf is all in pounds. Most pte pty in london are apt status n no facilities also. Sme dont even have lifts n got to climb up n down 4 storeys if it is a 4 storey apt.
I remember paying close to SGD200 per day for a really crappy room in a run down service apt just last year :(

ray.97727777
17-06-09, 23:07
Hi Friends,

June 20, 2009 (Sat) from 0900 hrs is THE DAY!

For those who is interested to get more information on the unit size / no. of units for each room type / est. psf
+
(i) 8 @ Woodleigh Fact Sheet (ii) COMPLETE floor plan (partial floor plan was released earlier) and (iii) 8 @ Woodleigh Model photo

Please sms at 9772-7777 or email me at [email protected]

I look forward to hear from you and serve you.

Thank you.



Cheers,
Ray
9772-7777

BenziT77
18-06-09, 08:46
May i know the price psf ?

gfoo
18-06-09, 14:26
I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but here's a theory that i'm betting on. Now i may be wrong, or right, but my disclaimer is that i'm obviously vested/biased; this is another one of my stupid theories which probably won't come to pass; and heck, it's been a tiring day at CMMA and i'm typing this in a stupor of exhaustion.

The recent run up, just as with other run ups, is all down to the herd mentality and kiasuism. Just like in our stock market, the property market in Singapore doesn't price in fundamentals - it prices in mass psychology and the unique 'i'm better than you' aspiration Singaporeans hold so dear.

HDB upgraders and most Singaporeans make their property buying decisions not on fundamentals, but on just one thing - CPF. As long as the absolute price of the loan does not exceed the monthly contri of 2 working spouses - ie $2200 pm - they won't think so much. At current interest rates, $2200 services a loan of $800k for 33-35 years, or a $1m property. stretch this to 40 years, and that becomes $1.2m. Banks give up to 45 years, making it $1.3m. DBSS buyers have it better - HDB's moral security, and easy to obtain loans.

Local buyers today thus do not seriously factor in location, potential, etc as long as certain key words like 'CCR, RCR, minutes to IR/Orchard/etc, MRT' appear on marketing brochures. Heck they dun really even factor in LH/FH anymore. As long as the quantum meets CPF contri, 'we're practically getting this property for free since we can't draw out our CPF anyways'.

Others add to this list with other justifications like 'must be close to good schools'. People, proximity is no longer a determinant of entry. OBA and service affiliation rank higher today for the really good ones.

This CPF crutch even applies to the little more well off crowd that buy the One Devonshires and 'close to Orchard' properties. Heck, and additional $300-500 per spouse per month 'ain't gonna bust the bank.' and 'I'm essentially paying just $600-$1000 pm for Orchard property!! (not counting CPF contri of course)'

Thus:

I see a tripolarisation of the the property market in Singapore. One segment catered to the fundamentals, another for the price inelastic, and another for all the rest.

Fundamentals
Those that buy on fundamentals look at areas that have definite and quantifiable infrastructural/living/growth investments planned and executed. This market is truly price elastic. If prices outstrip fundamentals, prices will drop - if undervalued, prices will rise. These areas are growth areas hinged on expectations for the future based on existing, confirmed and executed planning investments. Such areas include the Biopolis belt, Marina Bay only. All the other areas - Paya Lebar, Lakeside, Punggol - when I see the money and the start of construction, then i'll call it.

Thus before you buy that 'close to orchard' property, ask yourself - is there growth potential in orchard road? how likely is it for lucky plaza/ paragon/ NAC to be torn down and rebuilt higher and denser? Is is cheaper to enbloc, tear down and build, or just to build in new growth areas on bare land?

Price Inelastic
The rich are not idiots. They buy properties that either will give them much much more returns in the future, or those that protect the sanctity, privacy and prestige of their family. differences in valuation by a million or two will not make much of a dent in purchasing decision more than how well the economy at large will serve them; or even tax laws. You have to really visit a private enclave in Singapore to understand how out of this world old money (and even new money like Jet Lee), and out ministars live. This market segment is intertwined with the fundamentals segment. Case in point - Sentosa. No doubt an exclusive enclave, but as the infrastructural and commercial investments supporting this enclave are in doubt - prices are still underwater. The rich really hate it when there's nothing around to pamper themselves with, and sailing every day is boring. Heck you can't even open the door and swim in the choppy waters or even the lagoon.

The govt is obviously creating a playground for the rich in Singapore - whether the Gardens, entertainment, resorts, tax laws, private banking, HQs, private marinas etc. Now this really hinges not on the success of the IR, but on how Singapore is successful in:
1) positioning itself for high net worth, and tax exempt monies.
2) building a playground for these individuals and thus upping the quality of life

Point 1) has me worried. US tax law changes and the OECD blacklist might be a game changer, and will work only if Singapore and beneficiaries find a way to skirt around this. Otherwise, it'll affect everything to FDI to expats to just about everything non-local around here. This is a huge issue that scares me. IT will affect the 'Fundamentals' segment, less so the private enclaves.

Point 2) is happening right now. It's not the IR per se - although it does add an element of excitement and fun to things. Rather, it's the other stuff like the Gardens, private enclaves, mixed high-end commercial/residential, and recreation/entertainment facilities. Again, this benefits the fundamentals segment, up and down. IF this turns out to be another marina bay park of old, i'm f@cked.

So here's my short-sighted, probably erroneous, and highly flamable prediction for the future. The property market is going to mirror the huge divides in Singapore society in time to come.

The Hamptons vs Manhattan vs Brooklyn

I'm also gonna predict the stagnation of Orchard Road as new commercial destinations come up, and as such destinations become decentralised. The govt has spent $55m putting in lighted walks, and glowing trees. Some good that has done.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict the emergence of all new enclaves in the suburbs - and right now, only coney island and sembawang makes sense to me (assuming the shipyard moves out). This prob is a decade down the road.

Singapore is tiny, and really, everywhere is minutes away to somewhere. Even Sengkang to Suntec is a 15min drive in normal traffic via the KPE.

Flame me if you must, but citizens like myself who have worked so hard for our CPF balances and our savings MUST always look at fundamentals today, and for the future, and not base million dollar decisions on emotion and the lies of marketeers. Stuff like 'limited land' etc etc is bullshit, esp not when we are constantly building up, not wide. Drive around the island, see how much flat land that we have bare. Look at the govt's reserve list that's still unsold.

We are not like Jet Li with his quadrillions who can buy a GCB. If we can penny pinch and compare the cost of rice; price shop during GSS; - then why can't we take a step back and compare PSFs?

jitkiat
18-06-09, 14:41
I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but here's a theory that i'm betting on. Now i may be wrong, or right, but my disclaimer is that i'm obviously vested/biased; this is another one of my stupid theories which probably won't come to pass; and heck, it's been a tiring day at CMMA and i'm typing this in a stupor of exhaustion.

The recent run up, just as with other run ups, is all down to the herd mentality and kiasuism. Just like in our stock market, the property market in Singapore doesn't price in fundamentals - it prices in mass psychology and the unique 'i'm better than you' aspiration Singaporeans hold so dear.

HDB upgraders and most Singaporeans make their property buying decisions not on fundamentals, but on just one thing - CPF. As long as the absolute price of the loan does not exceed the monthly contri of 2 working spouses - ie $2200 pm - they won't think so much. At current interest rates, $2200 services a loan of $800k for 33-35 years, or a $1m property. stretch this to 40 years, and that becomes $1.2m. Banks give up to 45 years, making it $1.3m. DBSS buyers have it better - HDB's moral security, and easy to obtain loans.

Local buyers today thus do not seriously factor in location, potential, etc as long as certain key words like 'CCR, RCR, minutes to IR/Orchard/etc, MRT' appear on marketing brochures. Heck they dun really even factor in LH/FH anymore. As long as the quantum meets CPF contri, 'we're practically getting this property for free since we can't draw out our CPF anyways'.

Others add to this list with other justifications like 'must be close to good schools'. People, proximity is no longer a determinant of entry. OBA and service affiliation rank higher today for the really good ones.

This CPF crutch even applies to the little more well off crowd that buy the One Devonshires and 'close to Orchard' properties. Heck, and additional $300-500 per spouse per month 'ain't gonna bust the bank.' and 'I'm essentially paying just $600-$1000 pm for Orchard property!! (not counting CPF contri of course)'

Thus:

I see a tripolarisation of the the property market in Singapore. One segment catered to the fundamentals, another for the price inelastic, and another for all the rest.

Fundamentals
Those that buy on fundamentals look at areas that have definite and quantifiable infrastructural/living/growth investments planned and executed. This market is truly price elastic. If prices outstrip fundamentals, prices will drop - if undervalued, prices will rise. These areas are growth areas hinged on expectations for the future based on existing, confirmed and executed planning investments. Such areas include the Biopolis belt, Marina Bay only. All the other areas - Paya Lebar, Lakeside, Punggol - when I see the money and the start of construction, then i'll call it.

Thus before you buy that 'close to orchard' property, ask yourself - is there growth potential in orchard road? how likely is it for lucky plaza/ paragon/ NAC to be torn down and rebuilt higher and denser? Is is cheaper to enbloc, tear down and build, or just to build in new growth areas on bare land?

Price Inelastic
The rich are not idiots. They buy properties that either will give them much much more returns in the future, or those that protect the sanctity, privacy and prestige of their family. differences in valuation by a million or two will not make much of a dent in purchasing decision more than how well the economy at large will serve them; or even tax laws. You have to really visit a private enclave in Singapore to understand how out of this world old money (and even new money like Jet Lee), and out ministars live. This market segment is intertwined with the fundamentals segment. Case in point - Sentosa. No doubt an exclusive enclave, but as the infrastructural and commercial investments supporting this enclave are in doubt - prices are still underwater. The rich really hate it when there's nothing around to pamper themselves with, and sailing every day is boring. Heck you can't even open the door and swim in the choppy waters or even the lagoon.

The govt is obviously creating a playground for the rich in Singapore - whether the Gardens, entertainment, resorts, tax laws, private banking, HQs, private marinas etc. Now this really hinges not on the success of the IR, but on how Singapore is successful in:
1) positioning itself for high net worth, and tax exempt monies.
2) building a playground for these individuals and thus upping the quality of life

Point 1) has me worried. US tax law changes and the OECD blacklist might be a game changer, and will work only if Singapore and beneficiaries find a way to skirt around this. Otherwise, it'll affect everything to FDI to expats to just about everything non-local around here. This is a huge issue that scares me. IT will affect the 'Fundamentals' segment, less so the private enclaves.

Point 2) is happening right now. It's not the IR per se - although it does add an element of excitement and fun to things. Rather, it's the other stuff like the Gardens, private enclaves, mixed high-end commercial/residential, and recreation/entertainment facilities. Again, this benefits the fundamentals segment, up and down. IF this turns out to be another marina bay park of old, i'm f@cked.

So here's my short-sighted, probably erroneous, and highly flamable prediction for the future. The property market is going to mirror the huge divides in Singapore society in time to come.

The Hamptons vs Manhattan vs Brooklyn

I'm also gonna predict the stagnation of Orchard Road as new commercial destinations come up, and as such destinations become decentralised. The govt has spent $55m putting in lighted walks, and glowing trees. Some good that has done.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict the emergence of all new enclaves in the suburbs - and right now, only coney island and sembawang makes sense to me (assuming the shipyard moves out). This prob is a decade down the road.

Singapore is tiny, and really, everywhere is minutes away to somewhere. Even Sengkang to Suntec is a 15min drive in normal traffic via the KPE.

Flame me if you must, but citizens like myself who have worked so hard for our CPF balances and our savings MUST always look at fundamentals today, and for the future, and not base million dollar decisions on emotion and the lies of marketeers. Stuff like 'limited land' etc etc is bullshit, esp not when we are constantly building up, not wide. Drive around the island, see how much flat land that we have bare. Look at the govt's reserve list that's still unsold.

We are not like Jet Li with his quadrillions who can buy a GCB. If we can penny pinch and compare the cost of rice; price shop during GSS; - then why can't we take a step back and compare PSFs?
I must applaud your effort in writing up this piece. However, most of the buyers of this project may not even come to this forum. All I know is that the 1/2 bedrooms will probably be snapped up immediately on the 1st day of launch by the HDB upgraders living around Potong Pasir :D Each may have their own reason of buying, just like in stock market, some prefer blue chip value investment like you, some go after high yield stocks, some just buy 2nd-line stocks for speculation ...

qianfugui
18-06-09, 21:47
I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, but here's a theory that i'm betting on. Now i may be wrong, or right, but my disclaimer is that i'm obviously vested/biased; this is another one of my stupid theories which probably won't come to pass; and heck, it's been a tiring day at CMMA and i'm typing this in a stupor of exhaustion.

The recent run up, just as with other run ups, is all down to the herd mentality and kiasuism. Just like in our stock market, the property market in Singapore doesn't price in fundamentals - it prices in mass psychology and the unique 'i'm better than you' aspiration Singaporeans hold so dear.

HDB upgraders and most Singaporeans make their property buying decisions not on fundamentals, but on just one thing - CPF. As long as the absolute price of the loan does not exceed the monthly contri of 2 working spouses - ie $2200 pm - they won't think so much. At current interest rates, $2200 services a loan of $800k for 33-35 years, or a $1m property. stretch this to 40 years, and that becomes $1.2m. Banks give up to 45 years, making it $1.3m. DBSS buyers have it better - HDB's moral security, and easy to obtain loans.

Local buyers today thus do not seriously factor in location, potential, etc as long as certain key words like 'CCR, RCR, minutes to IR/Orchard/etc, MRT' appear on marketing brochures. Heck they dun really even factor in LH/FH anymore. As long as the quantum meets CPF contri, 'we're practically getting this property for free since we can't draw out our CPF anyways'.

Others add to this list with other justifications like 'must be close to good schools'. People, proximity is no longer a determinant of entry. OBA and service affiliation rank higher today for the really good ones.

This CPF crutch even applies to the little more well off crowd that buy the One Devonshires and 'close to Orchard' properties. Heck, and additional $300-500 per spouse per month 'ain't gonna bust the bank.' and 'I'm essentially paying just $600-$1000 pm for Orchard property!! (not counting CPF contri of course)'

Thus:

I see a tripolarisation of the the property market in Singapore. One segment catered to the fundamentals, another for the price inelastic, and another for all the rest.

Fundamentals
Those that buy on fundamentals look at areas that have definite and quantifiable infrastructural/living/growth investments planned and executed. This market is truly price elastic. If prices outstrip fundamentals, prices will drop - if undervalued, prices will rise. These areas are growth areas hinged on expectations for the future based on existing, confirmed and executed planning investments. Such areas include the Biopolis belt, Marina Bay only. All the other areas - Paya Lebar, Lakeside, Punggol - when I see the money and the start of construction, then i'll call it.

Thus before you buy that 'close to orchard' property, ask yourself - is there growth potential in orchard road? how likely is it for lucky plaza/ paragon/ NAC to be torn down and rebuilt higher and denser? Is is cheaper to enbloc, tear down and build, or just to build in new growth areas on bare land?

Price Inelastic
The rich are not idiots. They buy properties that either will give them much much more returns in the future, or those that protect the sanctity, privacy and prestige of their family. differences in valuation by a million or two will not make much of a dent in purchasing decision more than how well the economy at large will serve them; or even tax laws. You have to really visit a private enclave in Singapore to understand how out of this world old money (and even new money like Jet Lee), and out ministars live. This market segment is intertwined with the fundamentals segment. Case in point - Sentosa. No doubt an exclusive enclave, but as the infrastructural and commercial investments supporting this enclave are in doubt - prices are still underwater. The rich really hate it when there's nothing around to pamper themselves with, and sailing every day is boring. Heck you can't even open the door and swim in the choppy waters or even the lagoon.

The govt is obviously creating a playground for the rich in Singapore - whether the Gardens, entertainment, resorts, tax laws, private banking, HQs, private marinas etc. Now this really hinges not on the success of the IR, but on how Singapore is successful in:
1) positioning itself for high net worth, and tax exempt monies.
2) building a playground for these individuals and thus upping the quality of life

Point 1) has me worried. US tax law changes and the OECD blacklist might be a game changer, and will work only if Singapore and beneficiaries find a way to skirt around this. Otherwise, it'll affect everything to FDI to expats to just about everything non-local around here. This is a huge issue that scares me. IT will affect the 'Fundamentals' segment, less so the private enclaves.

Point 2) is happening right now. It's not the IR per se - although it does add an element of excitement and fun to things. Rather, it's the other stuff like the Gardens, private enclaves, mixed high-end commercial/residential, and recreation/entertainment facilities. Again, this benefits the fundamentals segment, up and down. IF this turns out to be another marina bay park of old, i'm f@cked.

So here's my short-sighted, probably erroneous, and highly flamable prediction for the future. The property market is going to mirror the huge divides in Singapore society in time to come.

The Hamptons vs Manhattan vs Brooklyn

I'm also gonna predict the stagnation of Orchard Road as new commercial destinations come up, and as such destinations become decentralised. The govt has spent $55m putting in lighted walks, and glowing trees. Some good that has done.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict the emergence of all new enclaves in the suburbs - and right now, only coney island and sembawang makes sense to me (assuming the shipyard moves out). This prob is a decade down the road.

Singapore is tiny, and really, everywhere is minutes away to somewhere. Even Sengkang to Suntec is a 15min drive in normal traffic via the KPE.

Flame me if you must, but citizens like myself who have worked so hard for our CPF balances and our savings MUST always look at fundamentals today, and for the future, and not base million dollar decisions on emotion and the lies of marketeers. Stuff like 'limited land' etc etc is bullshit, esp not when we are constantly building up, not wide. Drive around the island, see how much flat land that we have bare. Look at the govt's reserve list that's still unsold.

We are not like Jet Li with his quadrillions who can buy a GCB. If we can penny pinch and compare the cost of rice; price shop during GSS; - then why can't we take a step back and compare PSFs?

well said !! :) :) :)

jhokc0007
19-06-09, 00:58
Hi,

Can anyone verify. The ERA agent told me I must bring cheque book and IC in order to enter the showroom. Gee.. How did condo launch reach this stage????:doh:

Regulators
19-06-09, 02:21
very simple, DESPERATION
Hi,

Can anyone verify. The ERA agent told me I must bring cheque book and IC in order to enter the showroom. Gee.. How did condo launch reach this stage????:doh:

jhokc0007
19-06-09, 10:37
That's true. I should have say " I only bring CASH to showroom":)

new2mondrian
19-06-09, 12:54
Hi,

Can anyone verify. The ERA agent told me I must bring cheque book and IC in order to enter the showroom. Gee.. How did condo launch reach this stage????:doh:

Wah biang... I almost fell off my chair when I saw this... when has condo launches been like this???!!! So what if people bring cheque book and IC??!!! Will they buy? :banghead:

Very funny indeed. This really sets a precedence.... But nonetheless, my ERA agent never tell me to bring any cheque or IC leh. So this will not stop me from taking a stroll down on Sat morning, with my toddler and my helper from Leicester Road to Woodleigh to take a look without my IC and my cheque. Let's see what they can do. Evidently now DTZ also got into the fray. They are co-launching this with ERA. Maybe that's why the ERA folks are feeling the heat.

Hi gfoo,

There are a number of good points which you brought up. Firstly, I agree with you on the land issue. There is no shortage of housing land in SGP, except in the landed category. In fact, HDB caters to the housing needs of 80% of the populace, and in building denser and higher, there is really no lack of land for the masses. The en-bloc process (both by the Govt and by private developers) is also a continual exercise to create more living space for all.

And the housing market in Singapore is unique due to 2 factors. One is the role of Government in providing housing for the masses through the HDB. It controls the demand and supply of housing, and therefore providing a floor and ceiling price for mass-market housing. Two is through CPF, as you have correctly pointed out. CPF monies becomes "invisible" to the masses since there is a long lock-in period and there is no real cash outlay as long as the property is fully financed by the monthly CPF contibutions. But there are ways in which the CPF monies can be monetized, such as through the purchase of properties and renting it out. The property purchased for self-stay is always a form of consumption. Should one wishes to reduce consumption rate, then the most logical solution is to stay in a HDB. :)

And lastly, I totally agree with you on the growth potential of the Biopolis/Holland area. That's why I have acquired a property in that area last week. But for the IR area, the long term potential is still mixed and the risk involved given the investment quantum is not small. But as with all gambles, high risk high returns right?

But my take is that the Government is trying to rejuvenate the whole of SGP, though it will take a number of years. Areas such as Jurong Lake District, Paya Lebar and Kallang Basin development, and of course the IR consruction will have a positive impact on the market over the long run. Let's hope that SGP economy continues to grow, and there is constant rejuvenation and revitalisation of SGP as a whole for its citizens to see an eventual rise in their real estate in the years to come.

StanMong
19-06-09, 16:29
D13 WOODLEIGH PROJECT
8 @ Woodleigh

99 Years Leasehold

Site Area – Approx. 115,970 sqft

Situated on a High Ground with Panoramic View

Minutes Walk to Potong Pasir MRT Station & Woodleigh MRT Station (operational ready)

One MRT Station away to Future Serangoon Mega Mall

5 Towers of 15 Storeys High-Rise Condominium Project
330 Units

Typical Unit Types
1 Bedroom – Approx. 4XX sqft
2 Bedroom – Approx. 8XX sqft
2 + Study – Approx. 9XX sqft
3 Bedroom – Approx. 9XX sqft to 1,1XX sqft
4 Bedroom – Approx. 1,3XX sqft

Full Condominium Facilities
-Lap Pool
-Spa Pool
-Pool Pavilion / Pool Deck
-Function Room
-Gymnasium
-Changing Rooms
-Steam Rooms
-Jacuzzi
-Children’s Play Area
-Tennis Court
-Fitness Area
-BBQ Area
-Water Features / Feature Pond
-Basement Carparking Lots

Call/sms Stan @ 90088171 for a (no obligation) personal presentation

Regulators
20-06-09, 01:20
Desperado, kindly stop prostituting urself or ur services here coz they are not needed...:doh:

azeoprop
20-06-09, 12:07
Went there for a look this morning at around 10am...the Q until road side and the situation is crowded and rowdy...like refugee camp waiting for ration. All 1 bedroom units were sold even before the preview. I left without entering the showroom....too many crazy people around. :doh:

cheerful
20-06-09, 16:07
Went there for a look this morning at around 10am...the Q until road side and the situation is crowded and rowdy...like refugee camp waiting for ration. All 1 bedroom units were sold even before the preview. I left without entering the showroom....too many crazy people around. :doh:

Wow ... wonder if they were paid to Q or wat :D ... reminds me of the scene at Alexis ... lol

jhokc0007
20-06-09, 16:54
Just wondering: if investors are hoping to rent out to the "Expats" for a one room/bath in the coming years, will the "Expats" willing to pay $1-$2k for a small puny one bedroom apt?:confused:

moneymatters
20-06-09, 21:10
Just caught the news. 180 units sold in pre-launch. 150 unit to be officially launch next week. this is unbelievable.

gfoo
20-06-09, 21:22
That seals it- $770psf for 99 year cemetary facing property right smack in the middle of medium industrial sectors, bordered by one of the most congested roads in Singapore. I am proven grossly wrong - there really is no light of hope in Singapore today - everyone's a moron!


Nearly all 180 units of 8@Woodleigh soft launch sold

SINGAPORE: Hundreds of people turned up at the soft launch of a new condominium project in Woodleigh on Saturday morning.

Before noon, 140 of the 180 units at the 8@Woodleigh project were snapped up.

The developer - Frasers Centrepoint Homes - said prices were transacting at an average of S$890,000 for a 3-bedroom unit, or about S$770 per square foot.

One-bedroom units were sold at an average price of S$400,000, 2-bedroom units at S$690,000 and 4-bedroom units at S$1.1 million.

3-bedroom units make up 41% of the development, which consists of five blocks of 15-storey apartments.

The 99-year leasehold project is expected to have its TOP (Temporary Occupation Permit) in August 2013.

70% of the buyers are upgraders from public housing.

The developer said it will put on sale another 150 units at Woodleigh next weekend.

It also plans to launch a similar suburban project at Bedok Reservoir in July.

cheerful
20-06-09, 21:29
yah..... crazy man:scared-5: :scared-5: :scared-5:

august
20-06-09, 21:43
perfectly rational.. bubble liao ~

azeoprop
20-06-09, 22:19
The developer - Frasers Centrepoint Homes - said prices were transacting at an average of S$890,000 for a 3-bedroom unit, or about S$770 per square foot.

One-bedroom units were sold at an average price of S$400,000, 2-bedroom units at S$690,000 and 4-bedroom units at S$1.1 million.



690 000 for a 2 bedroom unit?! I saw the plan 2 bedroom units got 77m2, 78m2 and 80m2.
So this means the average price of a 2 bedroom unit is 821psf!! :scared-1:

blackswan
20-06-09, 23:02
One of the sign that currently waiting for.
Hopefully, Parc SeaBreeze, SilverSea, Vista Residences & Residence@Killiney will be a sold out too this weekend.

The end should not be too far from here.

august
21-06-09, 00:01
One of the sign that currently waiting for.
Hopefully, Parc SeaBreeze, SilverSea, Vista Residences & Residence@Killiney will be a sold out too this weekend.

The end should not be too far from here.

silversea and residence@killiney shld be more interesting ~ ;)

Geylang OKT
21-06-09, 06:39
silversea and residence@killiney shld be more interesting ~ ;)

silversea has already been on hold since last year! :jaw-dropping: :doh: :D

cndomay
21-06-09, 07:17
Just caught the news. 180 units sold in pre-launch. 150 unit to be officially launch next week. this is unbelievable.

Haha...I think it is better to enter into property developing business rather than looking for properties to buy.

Whatever the developers dish out 'smart' buyers snap them up immediately!

The developers ( and agents ) are laughing to the bank. Not even a decent advert in ysterday's papers and all are sold out.

A martian passing by Woodleight might think there is a housing shortage or economy is booming in SG. ha ha

BenziT77
21-06-09, 08:37
I heard that during the pre launch.. there was a launch for staff and "family members"

Most of it was sold during this pre-pre launch internal sale.

Imagine the number of ERA and DTZ agents eligible . Thus I heard more than 50% of units launch for sale this round was already snatch up

wkang1970
21-06-09, 09:33
wow...:scared-5: much expensive than woodsville 28, which i personally think is better than this project, in term of location, amenities and less than 50m to mrt, etc.

southpark2000
21-06-09, 11:42
wow...:scared-5: much expensive than woodsville 28, which i personally think is better than this project, in term of location, amenities and less than 50m to mrt, etc.
Errrmm.....Depends on what u want la - but on balance I agree with u

W28
+ Closer to MRT, city, major roads, amenities (Potong Pasir FC)
+ Exclusive - 110 units
+ Unblocked views for 2+1BR, 3BR, & 3+1BR; high flrs for 2BR....
+ Great (efficient) layouts
- Basic facilities (well, can't hav cake and eat it if u want exclusivity)
- Multistorey carpark (cannot be helped if u are that close to the MRT line)

8@W
+ Underground carpark (actually they dig / build it into the mound that the site in on)
+ Good facilities
- Further off roads, MRT; no real amenities (Woodleigh MRT is operationally ready but not open)
- Less efficient layout (anyone notice the HUGE AC ledge?)
- Not as exclusive
- For good views, those facing the Woodleigh Close road is the best (those facing the main Upp Serangoon Rd are at risk of having it blocked when the HDB comes up)

Personally, I see 8@W is more for invst-driven - the Stanford American School; but then again it is up against nearby units ranging from Blossoms, Youngberg, W28, OL, Intero, Kovan, to name a few

jhokc0007
21-06-09, 11:46
With this price, and a Leasehold property, perhaps Blossom @Woodleigh and Parc Mondrian (freehold) are more attractive. Furthermore, these properties are further inside with a more quiet env.



:p

southpark2000
21-06-09, 12:03
With this price, and a Leasehold property, perhaps Blossom @Woodleigh and Parc Mondrian (freehold) are more attractive. Furthermore, these properties are further inside with a more quiet env.



:p

All abt tradeoffs.....the more inside,the more quiet. At the same time, the more inside, the more inconvenient; the less unblocked views....the rare ones that meet all criteria have v. high $psf......hard compromises....

jitkiat
21-06-09, 13:42
Was quoted 2br stack 1 #09 facing north/pool for 729,000 NPS for 840sqft, about 867psft

Almost sold out ... showroom packed like sardine... even direct east/west facing stacks are selling like hotcakes :doh: Huge planter, bay windows. The only plus point is bathroom finishing is good.

Personally prefer this to W28, not everyone wants to live near MRT track/expressways. Walkable distance to MRT.

Looks like June's new homes sales is going to be fantastic

azeoprop
22-06-09, 03:42
thankfully I have bought The Mezzo, freehold, 840sqft for a lower price than that....:eek:

BenziT77
22-06-09, 07:54
I guess its difficult to compare this to mezzo.

Cause one is near MRT , the other is not.

The location is totally different.

One is freehold one is 99

Different people different needs

But definitely I think the price is dame EX for a 99 yres

jitkiat
22-06-09, 09:24
The cemetery land across the road is reserved for HDB housing under Master Plan. It is a huge plot.

bargain hunter
22-06-09, 09:37
260 units sold within 48 hours. Over the weekend, we visited the soft launch of F & N’s 330-
unit 8 @ Woodleigh near Potong Pasir, which was overwhelmed with crowds of interested local
buyers (estimated at few hundred). Within a few hours of its soft launch on Saturday, 140 of the
180 launched units were sold (~ 78% take-up). Given the favourable response, F & N launched
the remaining units. 260 units were transacted as of 5pm on Sunday, translating to an impressive
take-up of 79% within two days. A bulk of the buyers was Singaporeans.

new2mondrian
22-06-09, 09:57
Out of genuine interest - did anyone buy a unit at 8@Woodleigh?

I drove by on Sat morning, and saw tonnes (literally) of people queuing to get into the showflat. When I popped by on Sunday morning, I was told that people queued for up to 2.5 hours on Sat under the blazing sun to get into the showflat, and all the 4 bedders, 2 bedders and 2+1 bedders were sold out. There were already people coming down to the showflat at 8.30am on Sun morning (despite the showflat opening at 10am) to drop cheques and to talk to the agents.

Amazing..... the overwhelming response is really mind-boggling. However, this really proves one point - there is still a lot of liquidity in the mass market segment. For HDB upgraders to snap up mass market housing at such frenzied pace, despite the Deferred Payment Scheme being no longer available, it only means 2 things - 1) People still have jobs to secure a bank loan (unless everything is financed by cash), and 2) The mass market segment still FEELS bullish about the economy and BELIEVES that prices will go up further.

This of course, gives developers and agents alike to launch other mass market housing at the same (or higher) psf levels. And one thing is for sure. Units will only get smaller (to achieve higher psf and lower price quantum), and from a technical standpoint, a housing bubble that is not supported by fundamentals will be forming. Let's all see how this turns out....

Hmmm, maybe it is time for me to offload my Parc Mondrian. Or maybe not. Let's see.... If a 99-year at 8@W costs $770psf for a 3-bedder, what about a freehold at Parc Mondrian? Hmmmm.....

jitkiat
22-06-09, 10:04
Out of genuine interest - did anyone buy a unit at 8@Woodleigh?

I drove by on Sat morning, and saw tonnes (literally) of people queuing to get into the showflat. When I popped by on Sunday morning, I was told that people queued for up to 2.5 hours on Sat under the blazing sun to get into the showflat, and all the 4 bedders, 2 bedders and 2+1 bedders were sold out. There were already people coming down to the showflat at 8.30am on Sun morning (despite the showflat opening at 10am) to drop cheques and to talk to the agents.

Amazing..... the overwhelming response is really mind-boggling. However, this really proves one point - there is still a lot of liquidity in the mass market segment. For HDB upgraders to snap up mass market housing at such frenzied pace, despite the Deferred Payment Scheme being no longer available, it only means 2 things - 1) People still have jobs to secure a bank loan (unless everything is financed by cash), and 2) The mass market segment still FEELS bullish about the economy and BELIEVES that prices will go up further.

This of course, gives developers and agents alike to launch other mass market housing at the same (or higher) psf levels. And one thing is for sure. Units will only get smaller (to achieve higher psf and lower price quantum), and from a technical standpoint, a housing bubble that is not supported by fundamentals will be forming. Let's all see how this turns out....

Hmmm, maybe it is time for me to offload my Parc Mondrian. Or maybe not. Let's see.... If a 99-year at 8@W costs $770psf for a 3-bedder, what about a freehold at Parc Mondrian? Hmmmm.....
HDB upgraders care about absolute quantum. IF your freehold Parc Mondrian is big and 100-150psf higher at quantum close to 1 mio, it will be hard to sell to HDB upgraders. I don't think bubble can form easily in this market segment since anything beyond 900k will be out of reach of most upgraders. Besides confidence about economy, another factor that supports buying frenzies is that HDB flat at mature estate is also expensive so some young couples might as well buy condos.

bargain hunter
22-06-09, 10:19
but that means mass market will have less discretionary income in the years to come. are buyers assuming that their hdb prices will not fall significantly between now and when the new unit TOPs? what if hdb (and new unit) prices fall between now and TOP, then upon TOP need to top up even more?


HDB upgraders care about absolute quantum. IF your freehold Parc Mondrian is big and 100-150psf higher at quantum close to 1 mio, it will be hard to sell to HDB upgraders. I don't think bubble can form easily in this market segment since anything beyond 900k will be out of reach of most upgraders. Besides confidence about economy, another factor that supports buying frenzies is that HDB flat at mature estate is also expensive so some young couples might as well buy condos.

new2mondrian
22-06-09, 10:29
HDB upgraders care about absolute quantum. IF your freehold Parc Mondrian is big and 100-150psf higher at quantum close to 1 mio, it will be hard to sell to HDB upgraders. I don't think bubble can form easily in this market segment since anything beyond 900k will be out of reach of most upgraders. Besides confidence about economy, another factor that supports buying frenzies is that HDB flat at mature estate is also expensive so some young couples might as well buy condos.

That is absolutely true.... That's why the Parc Mondrian unit is very livable cos it is big and has unblocked views, but not easily marketable to HDB dwellers. It's alright.... We need a roof over our heads anyway. But it's just a thought. :cool:

Agree with your point that HDB flats at mature estates is expensive. Honestly at the end of the day it comes down to individual choice. If a young couple purchases a 5-year old 4-room HDB at Stratmore or Holland for $530K (which still requires further renovation of another $30K or so), versus a brand new 2+1 bedder condo at Woodleigh for $720K that is in a move-in condition, which is a worse choice? I really don't know. As long as the young couple is happy staying in it and not over-stretching themselves, who is to say that they have made a wrong decision? Anyway, that's gives rise to the strong demand for mass market condos.

wkang1970
22-06-09, 11:03
Can you believe it? :doh: In this case, W28, PM, 1L & B@W shd be able to sell at higher price now. These units area are bigger than this 8@W, in term of, says 3 bdrm.


260 units sold within 48 hours.
Over the weekend, we visited the soft launch of F & N’s 330-unit 8 @ Woodleigh near Potong Pasir, which was overwhelmed with crowds of interested local buyers (estimated at few hundred). Within a few hours of its soft launch on Saturday, 140 of the 180 launched units were sold (~ 78% take-up). Given the favourable response, F & N launched the remaining units. 260 units were transacted as of 5pm on Sunday, translating to an impressive take-up of 79% within two days. A bulk of the buyers was Singaporeans.

jitkiat
22-06-09, 12:14
That is absolutely true.... That's why the Parc Mondrian unit is very livable cos it is big and has unblocked views, but not easily marketable to HDB dwellers. It's alright.... We need a roof over our heads anyway. But it's just a thought. :cool:

Agree with your point that HDB flats at mature estates is expensive. Honestly at the end of the day it comes down to individual choice. If a young couple purchases a 5-year old 4-room HDB at Stratmore or Holland for $530K (which still requires further renovation of another $30K or so), versus a brand new 2+1 bedder condo at Woodleigh for $720K that is in a move-in condition, which is a worse choice? I really don't know. As long as the young couple is happy staying in it and not over-stretching themselves, who is to say that they have made a wrong decision? Anyway, that's gives rise to the strong demand for mass market condos.
Current young generation is even more kiasu than previous generation. Many are borrowing from parents, relatives just to buy DBSS HDB flats or condo and must be central or a few stops from city with marble bathrooms (guess 8@W sells based on this). When this group of young chaps reach 35-40 years old, I cannot imagine how big our property bubble is going to be.

2824
22-06-09, 13:20
I was at the soft launch, quite disappointed because never expect that prices to exceed W28 (nearer to city and near to MRT).
Also quite disappointed with having to queue so long. They should allow us clients to visit the show flat and give us the price of the units first and only those who want to make a booking queue up at a seperate area.
Also to add a number of the buyers based on my observations were people buying this for investment purposes, so not exactly the current young generation.

bargain hunter
22-06-09, 14:10
if this is the case, we'd get a subprime crisis of some form in sg which would wipe these people out even before they reach 35-40. the bubble can deflate by itself. :banghead:



Current young generation is even more kiasu than previous generation. Many are borrowing from parents, relatives just to buy DBSS HDB flats or condo and must be central or a few stops from city with marble bathrooms (guess 8@W sells based on this). When this group of young chaps reach 35-40 years old, I cannot imagine how big our property bubble is going to be.

cndomay
22-06-09, 21:04
260 units sold within 48 hours.

Over the weekend, we visited the soft launch of F & N’s 330-


unit 8 @ Woodleigh near Potong Pasir, which was overwhelmed with crowds of interested local
buyers (estimated at few hundred). Within a few hours of its soft launch on Saturday, 140 of the
180 launched units were sold (~ 78% take-up). Given the favourable response, F & N launched
the remaining units. 260 units were transacted as of 5pm on Sunday, translating to an impressive
take-up of 79% within two days. A bulk of the buyers was Singaporeans.



"Singapore unveiled a $20.5bn stimulus package as the city-state confronts its worst post-war recession, with the economy expected to shrink....."

The above was announced in Jan 09. and now, people are queing up in the hot sun to buy up properties worth >$800k.

Can withdraw the stimulus package or not?

wkang1970
22-06-09, 22:27
With this project 8@W selling so well and W28 left 1 or 2 units, it will be a brenchmark for the rest of the launches :banghead: , guess i really missed the boat.........

wqmai
22-06-09, 23:03
"Singapore unveiled a $20.5bn stimulus package as the city-state confronts its worst post-war recession, with the economy expected to shrink....."

The above was announced in Jan 09. and now, people are queing up in the hot sun to buy up properties worth >$800k.

Can withdraw the stimulus package or not?

Remember this statement reported in the news? 'You didnt seen it doesn't means it did'nt exists'.

There are people going through recession. It just that we did'nt see them.

nobrainer32007
22-06-09, 23:20
wah piang almost all sold!

momentum cannot be stopped. market will continue to climb up at least till end of this year.

looks like i won't be able to get the property i eyeing at 1300psf :doh:

Regulators
22-06-09, 23:26
i would personally prefer st michael area anytime for two reasons. The latter is nearer to town and projects there are 999yr or freehold.

bargain hunter
23-06-09, 10:23
reported in BT today, total madness!

Frasers Centrepoint is said to have sold 302 of the total 330 units in its 8@Woodleigh condo since Friday. The average price of the 99-year leasehold project near Potong Pasir MRT Station is about $780 per square foot.

cheerful
23-06-09, 10:39
reported in BT today, total madness!

Frasers Centrepoint is said to have sold 302 of the total 330 units in its 8@Woodleigh condo since Friday. The average price of the 99-year leasehold project near Potong Pasir MRT Station is about $780 per square foot.

yeshyesh ... ST oso reported & the whole of s'pore should know by now this amazing story liao. To think that FC actually paid a lower price for this site compared to the plot at simei (should be DoubleBay, bot by UOL & KL, acquired in Dec07) ... fwah really timing makes a difference! See those dates reported in the first article found in this thread ...

cheerful
23-06-09, 10:54
oops :ashamed1: ... i mean the thread Oasis@Elias .. acquisition costs all down there ...

wkang1970
23-06-09, 11:57
simei and woodleigh/potong pasir cannot compare lah, woodleigh/potong pasir has better location.

mr funny
23-06-09, 12:18
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/suite/story/0,4574,338787,00.html?

Published June 23, 2009

New projects enjoy strong weekend sales

8@ Woodleigh drew mostly S'poreans, specu-vestors due to its location

By KALPANA RASHIWALA


(SINGAPORE) There seems to be no let-up in home sales.

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-06-23/BT_IMAGES_KRWOOD23.jpg
Selling like hotcakes: 302 of the total 330 units in the 8@ Woodleigh condo were sold between Friday and Sunday. The average price of the 99-year leasehold project near Potong Pasir MRT Station is about $780 per square foot

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-06-23/BT_IMAGES_KRWOOD23-H3W.jpg
The Gale: A Facebook page for Tripartite Developers' project will be launched to help market it. It is expected to be launched to the public in July

Frasers Centrepoint is said to have sold 302 of the total 330 units in its 8@Woodleigh condo since Friday. The average price of the 99-year leasehold project near Potong Pasir MRT Station is about $780 per square foot. Buyers who opt for an interest absorption scheme (IAS) offered by the developer have to pay 3 per cent more.

The 15-storey development comprises five blocks. About 40 per cent of the units are studios, two-bedders as well as apartments with two-bedrooms plus study. The remaining 60 per cent are three- and four-bedders.

The average price of a studio unit is around $400,000 while a two-bedder typically costs between $650,000 and $670,000.

The project drew mostly Singaporean buyers. In addition to attracting those who bought units for their own occupation, the project is said to have drawn a fair bit of specu-vestors.

8@Woodleigh's location next to the future Stamford American International School gives it a strong investment appeal.

'Some people bought with a view to leasing the units to expat families (for the bigger units) or to the single teachers at the school (for studios and two-bedders),' a market watcher said.

The project is being marketed by DTZ and ERA.

Over at Devonshire Road, Allgreen Properties sold 130 units last week at One Devonshire, a 36-storey freehold condo with a total 152 units.

The average price of the units sold is understood to be $1,800 psf, assuming a normal progress payment scheme.

Allgreen is charging buyers a 2 per cent price premium for IAS. For those who opt for the deferred payment scheme, the price premium is 3 per cent.

Around 65 per cent of the 130 buyers have opted for normal progress payment. Knight Frank is marketing the development.

Chip Eng Seng group's Oasis @ Elias condo is expected to be released soon, as early as this week. The 99-year project has a total 388 units and should give some competition to City Developments' Livia condo nearby.

Over at Flora Road, in the Upper Changi area, Tripartite Developers is getting ready to launch its freehold condo, The Gale. A Facebook page for the project will be launched to help market the project.

The Gale comprises 329 units in nine blocks. The eight-storey project has a range of unit sizes, from one-bedders to four-bedroom apartments with a roof terrace.

Buyers will have the option of signing up for IAS. Buyers and current owners of a Tripartite property will enjoy a loyalty bonus (a 0.5 per cent price discount) if they buy a unit at The Gale, and a referral fee (0.5 per cent of purchase price) if they get a friend or family member to buy a unit in the condo.

Tripartite is a joint venture involving Hong Leong Holdings, City Developments and TID Pte Ltd. Hong Leong Holdings, which issued a press statement on the project yesterday, did not give an indication of pricing. 'The project is expected to be launched to the public in July,' it added.

cheerful
23-06-09, 12:27
simei and woodleigh/potong pasir cannot compare lah, woodleigh/potong pasir has better location.

That is why I say timing makes the diff lor .. FC bout that plot slightly later than the others (by then '08 prices lower in Woodleigh Close already) ...:p

Buy @ lower price, but betta location ... win liao lor.

ahlahdin
23-06-09, 22:36
91% of Woodleigh condominum sold

23 June 2009 2033 hrs (SST) 1233 hrs (GMT)

SINGAPORE: Developer Frasers Centrepoint said Tuesday 91 per cent of its 8@Woodleigh residential project has been sold following a weekend preview.

The mass market development comprises 330 units, out of which 302 have been snapped up during the past four days.

Frasers said it will now release the remaining units for sale and there will be no public launch.

The 99-year leasehold property comprises a mix of two to four room units and studio apartments.

They were sold at an average of S$790 per square foot.

Some 97 per cent of the buyers are Singaporeans, and over half of them are upgraders from public housing flats.

- CNA/yb

stalingrad
25-06-09, 17:20
I agree with Gfoo 100% that this new bubble will end badly for singaporeans. I also agree that government policies on CPF and other issues are partly to blame for the inflating and deflating of property bubbles in recent memories.

But my biggest concern is the banks and the financial health of the country if this continues unabated for one or two years. We are creating our own subrpime problems, if more and more properties are sold on leverage, rental income keeps slipping, more and more defaults occur, and banks begin to have more and more serious non performing loan problems, the whole finacial industry may be in risk of failing.

Look at the US, it is the only superpower, and it is losing its preeminent position because of the deflating of the housing bubble. But it is able to save itself by printing a massive amount of money. Singapore is a small
country, and it wouldn't be able to save itself if our own housing bubble begains to deflate, dragging our banks with it. it is something all singaporeans should spending time pondering.

But my posting is also a warning to all those speculators. Of course, our government is not stupid, and it will not allow this bubble to get inflated too big. sooner or later, measures will be announced to cool off the property market before it gets too big. When they announce those anti-speculation measures, the speculators will cry all the way, not to bank, but to their own grave.

jitkiat
25-06-09, 17:48
I agree with Gfoo 100% that this new bubble will end badly for singaporeans. I also agree that government policies on CPF and other issues are partly to blame for the inflating and deflating of property bubbles in recent memories.

But my biggest concern is the banks and the financial health of the country if this continues unabated for one or two years. We are creating our own subrpime problems, if more and more properties are sold on leverage, rental income keeps slipping, more and more defaults occur, and banks begin to have more and more serious non performing loan problems, the whole finacial industry may be in risk of failing.

Look at the US, it is the only superpower, and it is losing its preeminent position because of the deflating of the housing bubble. But it is able to save itself by printing a massive amount of money. Singapore is a small
country, and it wouldn't be able to save itself if our own housing bubble begains to deflate, dragging our banks with it. it is something all singaporeans should spending time pondering.

But my posting is also a warning to all those speculators. Of course, our government is not stupid, and it will not allow this bubble to get inflated too big. sooner or later, measures will be announced to cool off the property market before it gets too big. When they announce those anti-speculation measures, the speculators will cry all the way, not to bank, but to their own grave.
Not as bad as subprime lah. Subprime borrowers bluffed about their income !!! Now there is no DPS, even IAS you must take out a bank loan where the bank will assess your credit-worthiness. Private property index now only 140 (it was a different story in 1995, they should have intervened at 140), there is no point for government to intervene now, will let property developers clear stocks first. And Singapore banks are very conservative about valuation ...

nobrainer32007
25-06-09, 17:56
you missed the boat is it??:cool:


I agree with Gfoo 100% that this new bubble will end badly for singaporeans. I also agree that government policies on CPF and other issues are partly to blame for the inflating and deflating of property bubbles in recent memories.

But my biggest concern is the banks and the financial health of the country if this continues unabated for one or two years. We are creating our own subrpime problems, if more and more properties are sold on leverage, rental income keeps slipping, more and more defaults occur, and banks begin to have more and more serious non performing loan problems, the whole finacial industry may be in risk of failing.

Look at the US, it is the only superpower, and it is losing its preeminent position because of the deflating of the housing bubble. But it is able to save itself by printing a massive amount of money. Singapore is a small
country, and it wouldn't be able to save itself if our own housing bubble begains to deflate, dragging our banks with it. it is something all singaporeans should spending time pondering.

But my posting is also a warning to all those speculators. Of course, our government is not stupid, and it will not allow this bubble to get inflated too big. sooner or later, measures will be announced to cool off the property market before it gets too big. When they announce those anti-speculation measures, the speculators will cry all the way, not to bank, but to their own grave.

gfoo
25-06-09, 19:05
I had a meeting at the Siemens building earlier this afternoon and on a whim, brought my colleague and another ang mo PR for a drive around the area.

My word. Traffic was the pits getting into the woodleigh area, it was dusty, and really hot. When i told them this place commanded $800-900psf, they were shocked out of their socks. there was no way they would pay good money to rent this area and price was the least of their concerns

stalingrad
25-06-09, 19:41
you missed the boat is it??:cool:
someone said exactly the same thing to me two years ago at the height of the property craze.

stalingrad
25-06-09, 19:42
I had a meeting at the Siemens building earlier this afternoon and on a whim, brought my colleague and another ang mo PR for a drive around the area.

My word. Traffic was the pits getting into the woodleigh area, it was dusty, and really hot. When i told them this place commanded $800-900psf, they were shocked out of their socks. there was no way they would pay good money to rent this area and price was the least of their concerns

someone said on line that singaporeans have a poor intellect, and they are all lemmings. I have to agree.

zeq
25-06-09, 22:43
you missed the boat is it??:cool:

What kind of expensive and lousy boat is this?
Better to miss.
The more people buy and speculate, the better people who have better pay and better income stay out.
When the sun sets in, there will be a good show.
Lets see how everyone suffer.

gfoo
26-06-09, 00:50
What kind of expensive and lousy boat is this?
Better to miss.
The more people buy and speculate, the better people who have better pay and better income stay out.
When the sun sets in, there will be a good show.
Lets see how everyone suffer.

that's why i even bother to post altho i've already gotten what i want. Stampedes are stampedes - up and down.

Slow research, price studies, and then making a rational purchase is one thing, being kiasu and queueing to buy cock properties is a blind stampedes, and if the tide turns, the fall to the ground is just as fast if not further than the rush up.

I want my investments to be protected, and would much prefer slow, concerted movements in line with fundamentals.

But when cemetary condos sell for $900psf, the market is irrational.

I'm probably putting my property for sale this or next weekend - fingers crossed i hit my profit target. if not, oh well, guess i gotta tahan staying where i am for the next 5 years or so

wkang1970
28-06-09, 11:11
Left only 3 units! 327 out of 330 units sold within 1 week.

bargain hunter
28-06-09, 13:16
I think the final upburst has started, watch for higher prices for next 2 months before the bust comes.


Left only 3 units! 327 out of 330 units sold within 1 week.

blackswan
28-06-09, 13:47
Consider this a box office horror movie, so buy a big pack of popcorn, one large cock, seat comfortably and wait for the plot to evolve.:spliff:

But when the bubble burst........remember not to jump in too fast too
Remember one of the scene in BraveHeart where they sharpen their spear and ready to pierce into the oncoming British garrison? And what did Willian Wallace say......"Hold..Hold.."

bargain hunter
28-06-09, 14:06
yeah man, i think 2011 is a good time :)


Consider this a box office horror movie, so buy a big pack of popcorn, one large cock, seat comfortably and wait for the plot to evolve.:spliff:

But when the bubble burst........remember not to jump in too fast too
Remember one of the scene in BraveHeart where they sharpen their spear and ready to pierce into the oncoming British garrison? And what did Willian Wallace say......"Hold..Hold.."

Regulators
28-06-09, 14:28
at prices of 9xx to 1kpsf, px has to hit at least 1200psf in potong pasir b4 these buyers cn let go at decent profit. Do u thk it is possible by 2011?

Kenshinto80
28-06-09, 16:16
at prices of 9xx to 1kpsf, px has to hit at least 1200psf in potong pasir b4 these buyers cn let go at decent profit. Do u thk it is possible by 2011?

You just need around 70psf increase to breakeven and about 50psf to breakeven after first 2 yr clause with bank on early repayment over. No need 200psf increment for decent profit....200psf would be supernormal profit upon TOP.

jhokc0007
28-06-09, 18:43
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_360031.html

For those who are hopeful of the above. Think again. I was at the showroom today. All sold out. I was told the Paya Lebar "Hub" is also one of the reason for the rapid purchase as this will attract the "expats" to rent properies in this area.



:beats-me-man:

new2mondrian
29-06-09, 10:22
Anyway everything was sold out. I drove past the project ytd, and there were the large words "fully sold" printed all over the boards surrounding the development. All in 2 weekends' work. Well done... :cheers5:

In property, no one really knows who has the last laugh. Lots of HDB dwellers where laughed at when at the height of the SARs crisis in 2004 they formed a stampede for Pinnacle@Duxton 5-room which costs $4xxK. But the property market boomed thereafter. Far East had a tough time trying to sell Icon during its launch too. Basically the earlier batch of buyers laughing at the later batch. I suppose when the real cemetary land is out for sale at $6xxK for its first batch of DBSS flats, then the 8@Woodleigh folks will be laughing away at this same forum too.

Anyway, one thing is for sure. The FCL folks, and the agents from DTZ and ERA will definitely be patting themselves on the back for the quick (and minimal marketing exps) work. :doh:

novel
29-06-09, 12:00
I see subsales advs for this property just afew days after they launched it already asking for 800~850psf:p

wkang1970
29-06-09, 15:04
Read the following article, lno wonder property is moving higher again....

Take two reveals a brighter property picture

Credit Suisse revises downward its initial estimates for a foreigner exodus

By UMA SHANKARI


(SINGAPORE) Credit Suisse, which predicted in January that an astonishing 200,000 foreigners and permanent residents (PRs) might leave Singapore in 2009 and 2010 on the back of job losses, now thinks that the exodus may not be as bad as it had expected.

The evidence for this can be gleaned from the bank's forecasts for the property market.

Based on its economists' expectations of historically high job losses (up to 240,000) and an exodus of foreigners (up to 200,000) by the end of 2010, the firm's property analyst Tricia Song had previously assumed that 15,000 homes could be vacated by 2011.

But in a report dated June 19, she says she now believes that just 3,000 private homes will be vacant from 2009 to 2011 as foreigners leave the country.

'Anecdotally, we expect that the number of foreigners leaving Singapore will not be as high as we had expected,' said Ms Song in the report.

This also means that private home prices will not be as badly hit as the firm predicted just six months ago. Credit Suisse had expected private home prices to fall by as much as 60 per cent from the peak to 2005 levels, partly because of the projected 200,000-foreigner exodus.

However, in part due to the smaller-than-expected job losses and foreigner exodus, Ms Song now says home prices could dip 25 per cent in 2009 before recovering 10-15 per cent in 2010.

The main cause for the change of view is a recent update by economist Cem Karacadag, who was part of the team that in January predicted that some 200,000 foreigners and PRs might leave Singapore in 2009 and 2010.

Credit Suisse said then that the potential drop in employment and population would have far-reaching implications for the economy.

But in a recent report, Mr Karacadag said job losses have not been as large as he had feared.

'Singapore's labour market has held up remarkably well in this recession and much better than we had anticipated,' he said in a June 19 economics note.

Among various things, employers appear to have adjusted labour costs through salary cuts rather than cuts in headcount, he said.

Job losses so far this year have been surprisingly low against unprecedented job gains in 2007 and 2008, the note said. Net employment fell by only 6,200 in Q1 2009, although Singapore's real GDP was 10 per cent lower in Q1 2009 compared to Q1 2008.

Mr Karacadag also upgraded his forecast for Singapore's 2010 GDP growth to 4.4 per cent, from 3.9 per cent.

mr funny
01-07-09, 17:03
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/suite/story/0,4574,339793-1246391940,00.html?

Published June 30, 2009

Robust private home sales in June

But it is too early to call a recovery, cautions OCBC Investment Research

By UMA SHANKARI


(SINGAPORE) Private home sales stayed strong in June.

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-06-30/BT_IMAGES_UMPROP30.jpg
Freehold property: Artist's impression of Vista Residences; Far East Organization's Mr Chia says that buyers are mainly Singaporeans and there is strong interest from young professional managers, teachers and civil servants

Far East Organization sold 74 apartments in its 280-unit Vista Residences at a private preview last weekend, the developer said yesterday.

And Frasers Centrepoint said that it has fully sold two of its projects - the 330-unit 8@Woodleigh and the 110-unit Woodsville 28. Homes at 8@Woodleigh went for an average of $790 per sq ft (psf), while units at Woodsville 28 sold for an average price of $775 psf.

8@Woodleigh was launched just two weeks ago. Woodsville 28 was launched in July 2008 but most units languished until the buying momentum returned to the market this year.

Over at the freehold Vista Residences - on Jalan Dusun and Jalan Datoh at the corner of Thomson Road - prices start at $960 psf. The project will be officially launched tomorrow, but Far East released 88 units at a weekend preview, and 85 per cent of them were snapped up.

'Buyers are mainly Singaporeans and there is particularly strong interest from young professional managers, teachers and civil servants who are buying to occupy,' said Chia Boon Kuah, chief operating officer of Far East Organization's property arm.

While units at Vista Residences have sold for more than homes in the nearby The Arte - a City Developments project where units were launched at an average price of $880 psf in March - the difference in pricing is due to the difference in unit sizes and floor plans, analysts say.

'Vista Residences offer smaller size units that command higher psf pricing and also smaller balcony space than The Arte,' OCBC Investment Research analyst Foo Sze Ming said in a note yesterday. 'As such, we caution that the strong buying momentum at higher psf pricing for the new launch should not be viewed as a new uptrend for property prices.'

Mr Foo said that it is too early to call a recovery in the property market. 'We remain unconvinced by the recent 'recovery' in the physical property market,' he said.

'We believe buying strength over the recent weeks could have been driven by the spillover effect from earlier pent-up demand that drew cash rich local investors back into the market. In our view, potential catalysts for price increase will have to come from an inflow of foreign funds into the property market, as well as a pick up in employment opportunities.'

Foreign funds were the driving force of the property boom in 2007, but have not come back to the market in a big way.

Looking ahead, more mass-market and mid-market launches are expected in the coming weeks, including Oasis@Elias, a 388-unit, 99-year leasehold project at Elias Road by Chip Eng Seng, and The Gale, a 329-unit, freehold project at Flora Road by Tripartite Developers.

yokoosi
02-07-09, 13:56
sub-sales has started..close to 800K for 2bedders on Sat. paper. Will you buy?:banghead:

jhokc
02-07-09, 15:05
I won't. Unless my brain is on my butt.:scared-1:

Hee hee

wkang1970
02-07-09, 15:40
is hard to say, what if the price continues to move higher and u really need a unit around that area, and worst the price sustain at says 900psf, even buying at 780psf, people may still consider it good buy, right?

just saw an ad at propertyguru, a 2 + study @ woodsville 28 is asking for $920,000 (890psf) :confused:

HP65
02-07-09, 16:33
is hard to say, what if the price continues to move higher and u really need a unit around that area, and worst the price sustain at says 900psf, even buying at 780psf, people may still consider it good buy, right?

just saw an ad at propertyguru, a 2 + study @ woodsville 28 is asking for $920,000 (890psf) :confused:

If REALLY need a unit there, I will rent. With so many new condo there, there will be great pressure on rental. My friend just rented a 3+study double story brand-new Penthouse with great views at Arcasia (sp??) at $3k. It was advertised at $4.5k and its for 1+1 yr lease but without much bargaining, the owner accepted it at $3k.

Do you guys forsee a dramatic increase in demand (currently the supply is already greater than demand) and do you all forsee a sudden squeeze in supply due to enbloc fever in the next 2-3 yrs?

Think, do not be con by property agents and developers who are all too quick to pass the hot baby to you or to flip the units to you just because they managed to get into the queue to buy as VVIP etc. A lot of times these are close friends/ associates of developers, main con, property agency bosses. You are just helping the lazy rich get richer.

august
02-07-09, 17:10
If REALLY need a unit there, I will rent. With so many new condo there, there will be great pressure on rental. My friend just rented a 3+study double story brand-new Penthouse with great views at Arcasia (sp??) at $3k. It was advertised at $4.5k and its for 1+1 yr lease but without much bargaining, the owner accepted it at $3k.



where is this arcasia??

yokoosi
02-07-09, 17:10
you can get a 2bedder at Kovan Melody at around 700K plus.

2 to 3 months back, it was even cheaper. Seems like sellers are now upping their price and trying to pull a fast one.

Let those who try to flip 8@woodleigh burn....these are the people who spoil the market. :tongue3:

HP65
02-07-09, 17:33
where is this arcasia??

Aug,

Pls pardon my spelling. Its Acacias, sorry.

cheerful
02-07-09, 17:52
august ... see below to save u the trouble ...

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/project/767/the-acacias/

Honesty
02-07-09, 20:21
is hard to say, what if the price continues to move higher and u really need a unit around that area, and worst the price sustain at says 900psf, even buying at 780psf, people may still consider it good buy, right?

just saw an ad at propertyguru, a 2 + study @ woodsville 28 is asking for $920,000 (890psf) :confused:

People ask you pay? what they want is to make fast money. Don't be a sucker and let them earn your $140,000 just like that over 2 weeks period. How much can you sell to the next sucker? 1.1 m? for 980sq ft in this area.

jhokc0007
02-07-09, 23:03
For this sort of price, I would go for - D'Almira, Evania, Oasis Garden. which are FH (nearby):D

Regulators
03-07-09, 00:54
only such buyers will bring market up mah....which side are u on? waiting for market to go up to offload ur stock or waiting for market to fall to buy in stock? if you are in the latter group, then i understand how you feel....



People ask you pay? what they want is to make fast money. Don't be a sucker and let them earn your $140,000 just like that over 2 weeks period. How much can you sell to the next sucker? 1.1 m? for 980sq ft in this area.

yokoosi
03-07-09, 08:46
not sure about the rest, but i am in both groups. On one hand i am hoping the market will continue to rise (capital gain for my existing property) and on the other hand i am hoping for a more realistic pricing so that i can buy more...really cannot have best of both world. Do not flame me, i am not a flipper and try to make a gain. I am buying for my two kids now. I really scared that in 20 years time, they will not be able to afford it. Even if they can, it will be a big burden. I want to give them a good start ahead of their working life.

5577
03-07-09, 11:21
I've been a lurker...but I thought I'll give my 2 cents since I bot a 3 br unit...

If the price escalate sharply over the next 6-9mths, I'll sell for some capital gains. But if it goes down, I keep for TOP for rent or stay in lo...

End of day - if buy with some intention to stay and not just for a quick buck, it should be ok what....

jitkiat
03-07-09, 11:24
I've been a lurker...but I thought I'll give my 2 cents since I bot a 3 br unit...

If the price escalate sharply over the next 6-9mths, I'll sell for some capital gains. But if it goes down, I keep for TOP for rent or stay in lo...

End of day - if buy with some intention to stay and not just for a quick buck, it should be ok what....

Just curious, why don't u buy Parc Mondrian or any FH/LH condo there?

5577
03-07-09, 12:01
Just curious, why don't u buy Parc Mondrian or any FH/LH condo there?

Well, I was looking at a development with full condo facilities with reasonable number of units and near the MRT for convenience (walking distance). This development seem to meet my criteria as a first time buyer for pte property.

Maintenance cost is also part of my consideration as I understand that the smaller developments may have higher maintenance cost. (100 or so units only and may have lesser facilities) Bigger developments (500 to 600 units) may have cheaper maintenance but that means I have to fight to use the facilities.

Secondary consideration is also the reputation of this developer. I heard from friends that FCL is known for quality finishing and I really like what I saw in the showroom.

wkang1970
03-07-09, 13:12
Hi yokoosi, i have the same thinking as u, trying to buy a 2nd unit for children. :)

5577, agreed with you, any project with less than 100 units, maintenance will be high. But any project with 300 and more, not so exclusive. To me, idea one should be 101 - 300 units.

Around potong pasir and woodleigh, i like woodsville 28, reasons being (quoted by 1 of the reader here):

- exclusive (dun need to fight for facilities)
- good quality by FCL
- 50m from mrt station
- unblock
- good usage of space (layout)
- price is also more reasonable, for example compare to woodleigh

The above my :2cents: worth.

5577
03-07-09, 13:51
Hi yokoosi, i have the same thinking as u, trying to buy a 2nd unit for children. :)

5577, agreed with you, any project with less than 100 units, maintenance will be high. But any project with 300 and more, not so exclusive. To me, idea one should be 101 - 300 units.

Around potong pasir and woodleigh, i like woodsville 28, reasons being (quoted by 1 of the reader here):

- exclusive (dun need to fight for facilities)
- good quality by FCL
- 50m from mrt station
- unblock
- good usage of space (layout)
- price is also more reasonable, for example compare to woodleigh

The above my :2cents: worth.

Wah! You guys are really doting parents! I'm not so lucky! Must slog for my own private apartment...

Seems like FCL is a trusted developer for quality and efficient usage of space. I haven't seen Woodville 28 but the maintenance cost for 100 odd units to share will be a concern for me.

I'm now taking a see see look look attitude now as to whether to sell in the future or stay... :)

Regulators
03-07-09, 14:29
wah i see some golden parents here. I wish my parents were like that last time. They only supported me up to Uni and i had to work hard, buy my own ptys n make the 1st mil on my own.

novel
03-07-09, 14:38
yah I also wish my parent so nice give me condo so I dun need to slog so hard :P

On the other hand, I want my children to slog abit not so spoilt! :D

5577
03-07-09, 14:55
I'm a first time private property buyer and not a speculator, so dun flame me for the question I'm going to ask...

Frankly, what are your sentiments towards the current market trend for this area? Any chance of seeing an increase in price for 8@Woodleigh in the near future? Or even near TOP?

Frankly, I'm hoping that PAP will win the next election so that the surrounding area will develop and prosper even more at a faster rate! :)

Regulators
03-07-09, 15:02
i see many kids today lacking the kind of resilience n perseverence that we had in our younger days. Sme go thru life thinking that parents would be providing for them next time (they may nt say it out). Throw these kids out into society, they will get bullied n go back crying to mummy or jump off a building. These days when i see kids shouting at maids at their whim, parents escorting their pampered 12yr old brats to n frm school (n carrying their bags) even though their house is just a few steps frm school, n kids cmparing their fathers' cars n condos, i see a hopeless generation in the making.

Douk
03-07-09, 15:16
i see many kids today lacking the kind of resilience n perseverence that we had in our younger days. Sme go thru life thinking that parents would be providing for them next time (they may nt say it out). Throw these kids out into society, they will get bullied n go back crying to mummy or jump off a building. These days when i see kids shouting at maids at their whim, parents escorting their pampered 12yr old brats to n frm school (n carrying their bags) even though their house is just a few steps frm school, n kids cmparing their fathers' cars n condos, i see a hopeless generation in the making.

:D are you trying to inject some excitement into the forum ? nice try.;)

yokoosi
03-07-09, 15:22
Not really spoiling the kids lah. Some conditions must be met before i will go to the lawyer office to sign over the deed in the future ;)

The potential for growth is there, but i doubt the appreciation will move too much. It will be good if your intention is to buy to stay. For flippers, i see trouble forward. Just look at Kovan Melody.

Personally, i felt that the psf is high for 8@WL(99). For the same price or with a slight premium, you can get One Leicester (FH), Intero, etc. The units looks affordable because now the size has been reduced.


The questions now is are we having an oversupply?

Regulators
03-07-09, 15:23
not intentionally creating any excitement, just creating some awareness for parents, that is all.
:D are you trying to inject some excitement into the forum ? nice try.;)

rogerang
03-07-09, 16:01
Hi all. The showroom is permanently closed. Do PM me if u looking for sub sale units.

wkang1970
03-07-09, 16:05
If Ascentia Sky in Redhill can go for 1000psf, this area (cityfringe) definitely has great potential. It is just waiting for some actions (revamp in potong pasir and development in woodleigh) to take place.

So if u buy for stay, capital gain for medium is possible.:2cents:



I'm a first time private property buyer and not a speculator, so dun flame me for the question I'm going to ask...

Frankly, what are your sentiments towards the current market trend for this area? Any chance of seeing an increase in price for 8@Woodleigh in the near future? Or even near TOP?

Frankly, I'm hoping that PAP will win the next election so that the surrounding area will develop and prosper even more at a faster rate! :)

Douk
03-07-09, 16:27
If Ascentia Sky in Redhill can go for 1000psf, this area (cityfringe) definitely has great potential. It is just waiting for some actions (revamp in potong pasir and development in woodleigh) to take place.

So if u buy for stay, capital gain for medium is possible.:2cents:

:2cents: dont think this area is comparable to redhill which is close to tanglin and river valley.

5577
03-07-09, 16:27
The potential for growth is there, but i doubt the appreciation will move too much. It will be good if your intention is to buy to stay. For flippers, i see trouble forward. Just look at Kovan Melody.

Personally, i felt that the psf is high for 8@WL(99). For the same price or with a slight premium, you can get One Leicester (FH), Intero, etc. The units looks affordable because now the size has been reduced.


The questions now is are we having an oversupply?

I have been to Kovan Melody and seen a 2br. I dun think the finishings in KM are comparable to 8@W. Plus KM is a distance from city.... so can't really compare both development side by side....

5577
03-07-09, 16:31
If Ascentia Sky in Redhill can go for 1000psf, this area (cityfringe) definitely has great potential. It is just waiting for some actions (revamp in potong pasir and development in woodleigh) to take place.

So if u buy for stay, capital gain for medium is possible.:2cents:

I'm praying hard for the revamps... I haven't decided but rental or stay-in are my choices now after TOP... and sell after a few years after there are sufficient capital gains. :)

jhokc0007
03-07-09, 19:32
Do take the finishings at the showroom with a pinch of salt. That is my advice :tsk-tsk:

Its all in the lighting effect.

Honesty
03-07-09, 20:32
Not really spoiling the kids lah. Some conditions must be met before i will go to the lawyer office to sign over the deed in the future ;)

The potential for growth is there, but i doubt the appreciation will move too much. It will be good if your intention is to buy to stay. For flippers, i see trouble forward. Just look at Kovan Melody.

Personally, i felt that the psf is high for 8@WL(99). For the same price or with a slight premium, you can get One Leicester (FH), Intero, etc. The units looks affordable because now the size has been reduced.


The questions now is are we having an oversupply?

How much you think the next person will pay??? 1000 psf??? Ask yourself, will you buy.

confirm over supplied for now, unless the govt allow more immigrant by lower their expectation and requirement. And Singapore will have a very good mix of races in the future.

Regulators
03-07-09, 23:21
1k psf for smaller units would be more palatable if it is freehold or 999yr, but the fact that it is only 99yr makes it all the more not worth it...:cheers6:



How much you think the next person will pay??? 1000 psf??? Ask yourself, will you buy.

confirm over supplied for now, unless the govt allow more immigrant by lower their expectation and requirement. And Singapore will have a very good mix of races in the future.

stanchan
03-07-09, 23:57
I have been to Kovan Melody and seen a 2br. I dun think the finishings in KM are comparable to 8@W. Plus KM is a distance from city.... so can't really compare both development side by side....

Well, if you take the train, KM is 2 stations away. If you drive, it is 3 mins away. The comparison of closeness to the city is really irrelevant here. I personally think that 8@WL is really overhyped... Sales and marketing have done well. Once in a while there will be a few developments that are launched at the right time to capture the buying frenzy.

Go ask a valuator for an honest assessment.

Regulators
04-07-09, 00:21
Are these people valuers or valuators?



Go ask a valuator for an honest assessment.

southpark2000
04-07-09, 12:53
Well, if you take the train, KM is 2 stations away. If you drive, it is 3 mins away. The comparison of closeness to the city is really irrelevant here. I personally think that 8@WL is really overhyped... Sales and marketing have done well. Once in a while there will be a few developments that are launched at the right time to capture the buying frenzy.

Go ask a valuator for an honest assessment.

For our education, may you give us your evaluation?

wkang1970
04-07-09, 16:27
Well, if you take the train, KM is 2 stations away. If you drive, it is 3 mins away. The comparison of closeness to the city is really irrelevant here. I personally think that 8@WL is really overhyped... Sales and marketing have done well. Once in a while there will be a few developments that are launched at the right time to capture the buying frenzy.

Go ask a valuator for an honest assessment.


There is no right or wrong lah. 2yrs ++ ago, if you buy one Leicester @ 700psf (launch price is at the range of 600psf), ppl will say u buy high, not worth it. But now how? Selling at 850psf is any time. Who can time the market? unless u are god!

If u like it, and can afford, just buy. Unless there's another big shock like last year, i believe property mkt shd be able to sustain as now.:2cents:

Honesty
05-07-09, 00:09
Well, if you take the train, KM is 2 stations away. If you drive, it is 3 mins away. The comparison of closeness to the city is really irrelevant here. I personally think that 8@WL is really overhyped... Sales and marketing have done well. Once in a while there will be a few developments that are launched at the right time to capture the buying frenzy.

Go ask a valuator for an honest assessment.

Given me a choice, I will not buy 8@WL. All the surrounding are freehold or 999 years leasehold, I have to compete with all other development around before I can sell at a good price in future, as 8@WL is only 99 years leasehold.

So how to compete??? every development there have the same benefit as you. BIG problem !!!!!!! some more paid so high psf......never think properly before you buy......

jhokc0007
05-07-09, 01:10
You are absolutely right - Parc Modrain, Blossom , Euro Asia and not forgetting Avon Park which is only $6xx psf

Even the rental yield will be stiff if ones intend to rent out

:cheers6:

mr funny
06-07-09, 18:02
http://www.straitstimes.com/Life%2521/Life%2BNews/Story/STIStory_398643.html

July 4, 2009

home & garden

Condo-style granny units

Frasers Centrepoint's two-room units with adjoining studios prove a big hit with buyers

By tay suan chiang

http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20090704/e7-1.jpg
The layout of Frasers Centrepoint's "dual key" apartments at 8@Woodleigh (left) has a studio unit attached to a two-bedroom unit. CapitaLand's The Metropolitan also offers options for multi-generational living. -- PHOTO: FRASERS CENTREPOINT

View more photos (http://www.straitstimes.com/gallery/Life%2521/Life%2BNews/Story/STIStory_398643.html)

Always close, but never too close. That is the carrot dangled before extended families buying new condominium units which come with adjoining studio apartments.

Apart from the usual two-, three- or four- bedroom layout options, property developer Frasers Centrepoint Homes has introduced what it calls 'dual key' apartments at two recent two projects, Caspian at Lakeside and 8@Woodleigh.

This new layout has a studio apartment attached to a two-bedroom unit and is about 10 per cent larger than a regular three-bedroom unit.

And it has been an unqualified success.

At the recently sold out 8@Woodleigh at Potong Pasir, the 390 sq ft studio apartment comes fully equipped with its own kitchen, bathroom and dining and living areas. It also has its own entrance, which opens up to a foyer that is shared with the 682 sq ft two-bedroom unit.

Frasers' chief operating officer Cheang Kok Kheong says such units are 'specially conceptualised to promote inter-generational ties within families'.

All 30 units of this new layout at Woodleigh have been sold. Scheduled to be completed in 2013, the project has a total of 330 units, including one-, two-, three- and four-bedroom types.

Over at Caspian, a 712-unit project, all 17 such 2+1 bedroom units are also sold out.

Global investor Simon Yong, 50, bought one such unit at Woodleigh. He nows lives with his wife in a semidetached home at Braddell. When the Woodleigh project is completed, he hopes to move in with his mother, who is in her 90s. She will live in the studio apartment.

'My wife and I still have our privacy, but we can take care of my mum easily too,' he says.

CapitaLand is another developer that has offered a similar adjoining unit option to encourage multi-generational living.

Its The Metropolitan at Tanglin contains 29 single units with two entrances. In these apartments, a partition wall can be built to divide the living space.

Another option the development offers for multi-generational living are adjacent separate units. There are 14 pairs of such units, which offer buyers the option of removing the partition between the two units to create a single living and dining area.

The condominium was completed recently. At its launch in 2006, Ms Patricia Chia, chief executive of CapitaLand Residential Singapore, said: 'Many families today would like to live near to, or with, their ageing parents, while enjoying a certain amount of privacy.

'We also recognise that every family's lifestyle needs would change with time. The flexibility that we have built into the unit layouts at The Metropolitan is ideal to meet these needs.'

There is another use for 2+1 bedroom units: rental.

Frasers' Mr Cheang says: 'The new layout also gives buyers the option to finance their purchase by renting out the studio component of the unit.'

It is still about four years before they can move in, but buyers of units at Woodleigh that Life! spoke to are already thinking the same way.

Ms Teresa Kwan, a manager in a financial institution who is in her 50s, has bought a 2+1 bedroom unit at Woodleigh. She says: 'I can live in one and rent out the studio, or I can rent both units out.'

At Lippo Realty's Newton One, one of the bedrooms in its five-bedroom units comes with its own kitchenette and entrance - ideal for extended families and also rental.

Mr Chris Koh, director of Dennis Wee Properties, says these units are a good option for property hunters, particularly those who are looking to lease out the unit. 'Both the tenant and the landlord still have their privacy.'

Such apartments are a new trend in the private property sector, but HDB introduced them about two decades ago. In 1987, it launched multi-generation flats, or 'granny flats'. They comprised a four- or five-room flat with an adjoining studio apartment with a separate entrance. Around 367 units were built in Bishan, Tampines and Yishun.

However, HDB stopped building them 'as the demand then was not high. The completed multi-generational flats are still available in the resale market', says a spokesman.

Dennis Wee's Mr Koh believes that 2+1 units are a hit now because they can generate extra income.

A check with other property developers, such as UOL Group and City Developments, showed that they are not implementing these special two-in-one units in their upcoming projects.

Still, tutor Leah Teo, 35, hopes that more developers will offer such units. 'I can rent out one unit for extra income, and later on, I can have my elderly parents living next to me,' she says.

[email protected]

yokoosi
06-07-09, 18:19
even if the government allow more FT in, how many can really buy or rent a condo? Let's take the Casino for example, how many of those so-called jobs create there are high-paying jobs?

All the marketing talks about, upcoming development, etc. are just to cloud your judgement.

Anyone here remember Bishan, etc?? Rafflesia till today is still selling. The selling point then was RI is there, near Bishan MRT, etc..blah, blah..

I have a very strong feeling that the market is going in a saturating mood soon.

There is a time when there will be no taker unless the price is realistic. Parc Seaview and the Floridian is two good example.

sleek
06-07-09, 22:30
even if the government allow more FT in, how many can really buy or rent a condo? Let's take the Casino for example, how many of those so-called jobs create there are high-paying jobs?

All the marketing talks about, upcoming development, etc. are just to cloud your judgement.

Anyone here remember Bishan, etc?? Rafflesia till today is still selling. The selling point then was RI is there, near Bishan MRT, etc..blah, blah..

I have a very strong feeling that the market is going in a saturating mood soon.

There is a time when there will be no taker unless the price is realistic. Parc Seaview and the Floridian is two good example.

Rafflesia & Floridian are both Fareast Projects, and it was mentioned elsewhere that they like to hold-on to some units until TOP to fetch a higher price. The same sintuation it is with the Vista Residences, otherwise, they may actually sold-out the units during launch. :rolleyes:

Not sure about the Parc Seaview project. :beats-me-man:

yokoosi
08-07-09, 21:24
Flippers beware...http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_400458.html
:tsk-tsk:

5577
13-07-09, 11:15
Heard that the show room is closed already, is it true?

Anyone has an idea on when the ground work will start? :)

BTW, anyone here in this thread bot a unit?

sleek
13-07-09, 11:39
Heard that the show room is closed already, is it true?

Anyone has an idea on when the ground work will start? :)

BTW, anyone here in this thread bot a unit?

Yup, fully sold so don't need the showroom liao. :47:

You also bought a unit?

5577
13-07-09, 15:24
Yup, fully sold so don't need the showroom liao. :47:

You also bought a unit?

Yup. I bot a 3br. U bot bot one too? :)

Any idea when they start working on the grounds?

franzmark
13-07-09, 18:16
just curious how much psf u paid for ur unit and what attracts u to ths project being only 99yr LH? I thnk many forumers here are puzzled by the sellout success of ths proj
Yup. I bot a 3br. U bot bot one too? :)

Any idea when they start working on the grounds?

5577
13-07-09, 22:39
just curious how much psf u paid for ur unit and what attracts u to ths project being only 99yr LH? I thnk many forumers here are puzzled by the sellout success of ths proj

I answerd that previously - see page 9 post 168. :)

jitkiat
13-07-09, 23:06
just curious how much psf u paid for ur unit and what attracts u to ths project being only 99yr LH? I thnk many forumers here are puzzled by the sellout success of ths proj

The truth is, buying new with IAS is like buying a call option / warrant with 5 times leverage until TOP. Buying a freehold / 99LH for immediate occupany is less speculative.

sleek
14-07-09, 02:01
Yup. I bot a 3br. U bot bot one too? :)

Any idea when they start working on the grounds?

Same-same on Stack 23. :cheers6:

Will pass by the site almost every weekday morning, so will update again once they've had start working the grounds. :)

Regulators
14-07-09, 04:38
at what psf did you guys pay for ur units? gfoo was saying something bout u guys buying into cemetary land, is that true?



Same-same on Stack 23. :cheers6:

Will pass by the site almost every weekday morning, so will update again once they've had start working the grounds. :)

5577
14-07-09, 10:31
Same-same on Stack 23. :cheers6:

Will pass by the site almost every weekday morning, so will update again once they've had start working the grounds. :)

Haha... hi hi neighbour. :)

I can't remember my stack no. off hand though.... My layout is C4. Yours?

Looking forward to your updates. ;)

5577
14-07-09, 10:36
at what psf did you guys pay for ur units? gfoo was saying something bout u guys buying into cemetary land, is that true?

Hehe... I'm not sure if 8@w is on cemetry land but the 'park' across the road used to be bidadari cemetry. Very famous for hauntings and black magic. But it doesn't bother me much. :)

Bishan used to be a big cemetry and lots of people used to say there are hauntings when MRT and new HDBs were built there. But look at that estate now... price of the property has escalated so much! I'm sure both the people and ghosts living there are having the last laugh!:)

5577
14-07-09, 10:40
The truth is, buying new with IAS is like buying a call option / warrant with 5 times leverage until TOP. Buying a freehold / 99LH for immediate occupany is less speculative.

Frankly, I was looking at a 999 development in Loyang/ Pasir Ris before I bot 8@W because I really like the quiet and the park/ beach. The price is slightly lower than 8@W.

In the end decided not to buy cos it may be hard to dispose later if my lifestyle changes. The surrounding at 8@W seems to be peaceful enough but at the same time close enuf to town and so I bot it instead.

yokoosi
14-07-09, 15:59
Hype create in Bishan many years agao. Bishan price shot up, then came down during the last two down turns. Those who bought it high still have yet to break even. Sell now, will loose till underwear. :banghead:

5577
14-07-09, 16:17
Hype create in Bishan many years agao. Bishan price shot up, then came down during the last two down turns. Those who bought it high still have yet to break even. Sell now, will loose till underwear. :banghead:

But the HDB resale price there still very high :scared-4: - between $500k to $600k for a 10 to 20 years old 5 room flat.... Those who buy direct from HDB paid a fraction of the price... very hard to bring myself to buy...

At the end of the day, everyone has different needs and place different value/ emphasis/ weightage on different things. As long as one is happy with their choice, then no need to :banghead: .

wkang1970
14-07-09, 18:06
agreed....

btw look at the arte, when it launch at 950psf, what ppl say? and now another one new project near it, hit 1000psf! No right or wrong lah, if price keep go high or sustain, then these buyers are really right lor.:)

Again look at the project launch @ pasir ris, is at 700psf. :doh:
Anywhere near city easily go to 900psf and above, not surprise lah:tsk-tsk:

sleek
14-07-09, 23:24
Haha... hi hi neighbour. :)

I can't remember my stack no. off hand though.... My layout is C4. Yours?

Looking forward to your updates. ;)

Yeah neighbour! Mine is a type C1, facing Woodleigh Close. :cheers6:

And you're right too. Had gone to look at Livia but decides that there's more potential at 8@W. Also likes the surroundings and the friendly Potong Pasir neighbourhood.

As am presently staying in Bishan, guess i won't be too affected by the Bidadari site across the road. :spliff:

Regulators
14-07-09, 23:30
i think no need for people to be so pantang lah. i don't think hantu is just centered around cemeteries coz they travel everywhere. very often people are worse off than hantus...lol



Hehe... I'm not sure if 8@w is on cemetry land but the 'park' across the road used to be bidadari cemetry. Very famous for hauntings and black magic. But it doesn't bother me much. :)

Bishan used to be a big cemetry and lots of people used to say there are hauntings when MRT and new HDBs were built there. But look at that estate now... price of the property has escalated so much! I'm sure both the people and ghosts living there are having the last laugh!:)

Honesty
14-07-09, 23:36
agreed....

btw look at the arte, when it launch at 950psf, what ppl say? and now another one new project near it, hit 1000psf! No right or wrong lah, if price keep go high or sustain, then these buyers are really right lor.:)

Again look at the project launch @ pasir ris, is at 700psf. :doh:
Anywhere near city easily go to 900psf and above, not surprise lah:tsk-tsk:

The government had warn us....BEWARE....buyer...

""Government has released information on how much supply is coming onto the market, the transacted prices and how many units have been sold on the deferred payment scheme.
This gives buyers complete information, rather than to have reports of high prices alone, he said.

‘For example, there are about over 40,000 units coming onto the market in the next three or four years – I think people must know that.’""

HDB prices are stable....how about private property????? 40,000 units coming :scared-4::scared-4::scared-4::scared-4: how to digest:confused::confused::confused::confused:

proud owner
14-07-09, 23:39
i think no need for people to be so pantang lah. i don't think hantu is just centered around cemeteries coz they travel everywhere. very often people are worse off than hantus...lol

Hantu travels in a straight line ..

so if one's window faces straight at it .. mirror the whole room lor .. reflect it back
hehehe

proud owner
14-07-09, 23:42
The government had warn us....BEWARE....buyer...

""Government has released information on how much supply is coming onto the market, the transacted prices and how many units have been sold on the deferred payment scheme.
This gives buyers complete information, rather than to have reports of high prices alone, he said.

‘For example, there are about over 40,000 units coming onto the market in the next three or four years – I think people must know that.’""

HDB prices are stable....how about private property????? 40,000 units coming :scared-4::scared-4::scared-4::scared-4: how to digest:confused::confused::confused::confused:



to many , buying property is like ..the urge to go 'pang sai' ...you just have to , theres no stopping ...
no matter how hard you try to warn them .. like .. that cubicle no toilet paper ..they still go in .. worst case , use their underwear to swipe and throw away lor ..

sleek
14-07-09, 23:44
i think no need for people to be so pantang lah. i don't think hantu is just centered around cemeteries coz they travel everywhere. very often people are worse off than hantus...lol

Yeah! Reminds of a hokkien saying to that effect.

Lang kia lang eh see :scared-5:

Douk
14-07-09, 23:49
to many , buying property is like ..the urge to go 'pang sai' ...you just have to , theres no stopping ...
no matter how hard you try to warn them .. like .. that cubicle no toilet paper ..they still go in .. worst case , use their underwear to swipe and throw away lor ..

very funny.

5577
15-07-09, 00:25
Yeah neighbour! Mine is a type C1, facing Woodleigh Close. :cheers6:

And you're right too. Had gone to look at Livia but decides that there's more potential at 8@W. Also likes the surroundings and the friendly Potong Pasir neighbourhood.

As am presently staying in Bishan, guess i won't be too affected by the Bidadari site across the road. :spliff:

Haha... so are you one of those original owner in Bishan who bot at a fraction of the current price???:p

I'm facing the pool...towards the direction of Woodleigh station. :)

I was seriously considering a ground unit at Bluwaters 2 before 8@W. Saw Double Bay and Livia too but was put off by the number of units there.

5577
15-07-09, 00:27
i think no need for people to be so pantang lah. i don't think hantu is just centered around cemeteries coz they travel everywhere. very often people are worse off than hantus...lol

Haha... agree. I believe as long as one dun do things against one's conscience and are respectful towards the unknown then no need to worry lah. Agree that living persons are more scary :scared-4: than ghosts most of the time!

teddybear
15-07-09, 09:29
"buying new with IAS is like buying a call option / warrant with 5 times leverage until TOP."
- This is for investment.
"Buying a freehold / 99LH for immediate occupany is less speculative."
- This is for self-consumption.

Both if require housing loan is using leverage. Both can be long-term investment (a hedge against inflation and money-printing where paper money loses their physical value). No difference lah.


The truth is, buying new with IAS is like buying a call option / warrant with 5 times leverage until TOP. Buying a freehold / 99LH for immediate occupany is less speculative.

teddybear
15-07-09, 09:50
They are not going to build more HDB flats mah. If HDB don't drop, how can private properties drop below HDB? 40,000 coming but spread over 4-5 years and they can be deferred for a few more years (like over 10 years). So, 40,000 / 10 = 4,000 units => Even less than recession period of 6000+ units sold. Like that property sure cheongggg! :D


The government had warn us....BEWARE....buyer...

""Government has released information on how much supply is coming onto the market, the transacted prices and how many units have been sold on the deferred payment scheme.
This gives buyers complete information, rather than to have reports of high prices alone, he said.

‘For example, there are about over 40,000 units coming onto the market in the next three or four years – I think people must know that.’""

HDB prices are stable....how about private property????? 40,000 units coming :scared-4::scared-4::scared-4::scared-4: how to digest:confused::confused::confused::confused:

jitkiat
15-07-09, 10:17
They are not going to build more HDB flats mah. If HDB don't drop, how can private properties drop below HDB? 40,000 coming but spread over 4-5 years and they can be deferred for a few more years (like over 10 years). So, 40,000 / 10 = 4,000 units => Even less than recession period of 6000+ units sold. Like that property sure cheongggg! :D

Since when teddybear become so bullish? :D

teddybear
15-07-09, 13:10
Not being bullish for the sake of bullish but just basing on facts (and the facts seem to point to bullish note). Coupled with Q2 GDP which is much better than expected and 2009 full year GDP being upgraded, looks bullish though! :eek:
But hor, I won't buy a place just opposite the cemetary lah! (Personal preference, don't hammer me!) :scared-4: The whole place around Woodleigh just next to cemetary! The MRT station is built on the cemetary (if my memory didn't fail me). At night walking along there better don't look over the shoulder otherwise hor... :scared-3:


Since when teddybear become so bullish? :D

sleek
15-07-09, 19:44
Haha... so are you one of those original owner in Bishan who bot at a fraction of the current price???:p

I'm facing the pool...towards the direction of Woodleigh station. :)

I was seriously considering a ground unit at Bluwaters 2 before 8@W. Saw Double Bay and Livia too but was put off by the number of units there.

Mine was the D&B or Premium flats back then, so it wasn't exactly low priced compare to the others flats at that time. But then, its able to fetch a higher price now. :spliff2:

Didn't check out Bluwater, but did went down to Doublebay, Mezzo & St Michael estate too, before deciding on 8@W. :cool:

5577
16-07-09, 09:24
Mine was the D&B or Premium flats back then, so it wasn't exactly low priced compare to the others flats at that time. But then, its able to fetch a higher price now. :spliff2:

Didn't check out Bluwater, but did went down to Doublebay, Mezzo & St Michael estate too, before deciding on 8@W. :cool:

Keke... good for u... mature estate like AMK and Bishan always command a premium because of location other than the amenities...

I didn't see Mezzo and St Michael estate. Was more focus on Loyang/ Pasir Ris and East Coast area actually because I like to be near the sea and prefer places that are more quiet.

So, 8@W is kind of 'quite off' from my initial plans...... but I also believe in fate when it comes to buying a property lah. :)

sleek
16-07-09, 09:45
Keke... good for u... mature estate like AMK and Bishan always command a premium because of location other than the amenities...

I didn't see Mezzo and St Michael estate. Was more focus on Loyang/ Pasir Ris and East Coast area actually because I like to be near the sea and prefer places that are more quiet.

So, 8@W is kind of 'quite off' from my initial plans...... but I also believe in fate when it comes to buying a property lah. :)

Actually I was looking to moved back to the East, but the location or prices were not right. :scared-1:

Yeah, so guess kinda fated to remains in the City Fringes. :cool:

5577
16-07-09, 09:55
Actually I was looking to moved back to the East, but the location or prices were not right. :scared-1:

Yeah, so guess kinda fated to remains in the City Fringes. :cool:

Keke... I sae St Patrick Residence, Poshgrove East, Callidora, and a few others near to Lor L/ N in East Coast but didn't have the 'feel' le...

I guess some people in this forum may say that I'm mad to go with 'feel' when buying property but I'm a rather 'intuitive' person especially with personal things like buying a property. :o

cheerful
16-07-09, 12:10
Keke... I sae St Patrick Residence, Poshgrove East, Callidora, and a few others near to Lor L/ N in East Coast but didn't have the 'feel' le...

I guess some people in this forum may say that I'm mad to go with 'feel' when buying property but I'm a rather 'intuitive' person especially with personal things like buying a property. :o

Why would pp say u mad?? ... if buy to stay of cuz "feel" is 1 important factor .... but Poshgrove East IMO is quite good actually ...;)

5577
16-07-09, 12:59
Why would pp say u mad?? ... if buy to stay of cuz "feel" is 1 important factor .... but Poshgrove East IMO is quite good actually ...;)

Well, some people rely more on facts like psf price to measure potential mah. :) And moreover, 8@W is only a showroom, and u dun even see the actual unit. So talk about 'feel' is like ???... cos nothing 'concrete' to actually see.

I saw the actual show unit 3+study that was facing the pool in PGE. Asking was slightly over 1mil. There was another 2br that faces the guardhouse/ main road at $750K or so. I was considering that area then but thought that the facilities were normal only. Pool wasn't really fantastic and the landscaping wasn't that great too. :beats-me-man:

sleek
16-07-09, 15:03
I guess for those who are making it their home, the right "feel" of the place will be very important. Likewise for me, if the "feel" is not right, then it doesn't make sense to stay and discuss more. :cool:

cheerful
16-07-09, 15:08
Well, some people rely more on facts like psf price to measure potential mah. :) And moreover, 8@W is only a showroom, and u dun even see the actual unit. So talk about 'feel' is like ???... cos nothing 'concrete' to actually see.

I saw the actual show unit 3+study that was facing the pool in PGE. Asking was slightly over 1mil. There was another 2br that faces the guardhouse/ main road at $750K or so. I was considering that area then but thought that the facilities were normal only. Pool wasn't really fantastic and the landscaping wasn't that great too. :beats-me-man:

Yup, true about 8@W since it's juz a showroom ... but for PGE, it's the actual which I believe is what you saw after TOP ... facilities true not fantastic, but overall "feel" is pretty good (well at least suits my taste) ;)

But hor ... thot PGE quite expensive (given that they now selling higher than launch price!! :simmering: ). And, quantum is considered big for 3+study ... can forget about those not facing inward, u'll end up seeing the main road plus there is one even facing the sub-station!

5577
16-07-09, 15:28
I guess for those who are making it their home, the right "feel" of the place will be very important. Likewise for me, if the "feel" is not right, then it doesn't make sense to stay and discuss more. :cool:

Till now haven't really decide to stay at 8@w...:p I bot with the intention to stay or rent actually....see how it goes lah... keke...

Regulators
16-07-09, 15:30
just curious, why havent u considered belastier or st michael which are nearer to town and have better investment prospects?



Till now haven't really decide to stay at 8@w...:p I bot with the intention to stay or rent actually....see how it goes lah... keke...

5577
16-07-09, 15:31
Yup, true about 8@W since it's juz a showroom ... but for PGE, it's the actual which I believe is what you saw after TOP ... facilities true not fantastic, but overall "feel" is pretty good (well at least suits my taste) ;)

But hor ... thot PGE quite expensive (given that they now selling higher than launch price!! :simmering: ). And, quantum is considered big for 3+study ... can forget about those not facing inward, u'll end up seeing the main road plus there is one even facing the sub-station!

Err... still got units unsold at PGE? tot mostly taken up already? I'm a sucker for greenery and serene environment so PGE too much of a concrete jungle for me. :) But I must admit the actual unit show room that was up for sale was quite nice. I love the kitchen fittings. :P

5577
16-07-09, 15:34
just curious, why havent u considered belastier or st michael which are nearer to town and have better investment prospects?

My other half dun like belastier :beats-me-man: and frankly, I didn't really research on St Michael... also dunno why I din do that....keke...maybe it's fated??? :ashamed1:

Regulators
16-07-09, 15:39
if you buying for own long term stay i dont know how 99yr leasehold would affect the future pricing of the project. i always feel that buying a triple 9 or FH in the central (whether RCR or CCR) is always a safe bet. Some people I know seem to also like Potong Pasir area and was telling me the developmental prospects in that area (would be on goverment's pipeline) and people dont mind paying forward pricing to bet on the future prospects. i am still puzzled at the overwhelming response of 8 @ woodleigh till now and would really like to speak to more owners there about why they buy into the project....



My other half dun like belastier :beats-me-man: and frankly, I didn't really research on St Michael... also dunno why I din do that....keke...maybe it's fated??? :ashamed1:

5577
16-07-09, 15:50
if you buying for own long term stay i dont know how 99yr leasehold would affect the future pricing of the project. i always feel that buying a triple 9 or FH in the central (whether RCR or CCR) is always a safe bet. Some people I know seem to also like Potong Pasir area and was telling me the developmental prospects in that area (would be on goverment's pipeline) and people dont mind paying forward pricing to bet on the future prospects. i am still puzzled at the overwhelming response of 8 @ woodleigh till now and would really like to speak to more owners there about why they buy into the project....

I agree with you. I was looking at FH and 999 at loyang/ pasir ris and east coast area too... wanted to buy for long term stay cos of the proximity to greenery and beach. But other half warn me that loyang/ pasir ris may be difficult to sell next time if we need to move or get out of the country.

For me, I guess it's because I was 'emotionally captured' by the showroom other than the good feeling of the area there... and that is knowing that bidadari is just across the road! :scared-5: (Some people feel that cemetry is eerie but I think it can also give a sense of peace. Weird hor ... :o )

Regulators
16-07-09, 16:00
that is something new to me man. you guys who bought the project could be setting the trend for people wanting to stay near cemetary. it is definitely peaceful but again chinese being chinese....do u think lviving opposite bidadari would make it easier to sell ur condo next time? If you had a choice to go back in time, would you still buy woodleigh? sorry for asking too many Q as i really want to understand buyers for this project....



For me, I guess it's because I was 'emotionally captured' by the showroom other than the good feeling of the area there... and that is knowing that bidadari is just across the road! :scared-5: (Some people feel that cemetry is eerie but I think it can also give a sense of peace. Weird hor ... :o )

5577
16-07-09, 16:10
that is something new to me man. you guys who bought the project could be setting the trend for people wanting to stay near cemetary. it is definitely peaceful but again chinese being chinese....do u think lviving opposite bidadari would make it easier to sell ur condo next time? If you had a choice to go back in time, would you still buy woodleigh? sorry for asking too many Q as i really want to understand buyers for this project....

Keke... I guess I'm not your regular chinese here... anyway, the younger generation couldn't really care about cemetry or not. :) Just look at Bishan now... that's a fairly good example.

Try Sentosa too... it used to be known as Pulau Blakang Mati (spell?). Jap army did some serious massacre there during WWII but now you get the rich buying property there and IR being built. :) To me, it's all in the mind. :P Just show the dead the respect and you'll be fine even if you live near them.

Well, I'm the intuitive sort who goes by feel... so let's just say that I'm glad I bot 8@W a few weeks ago. Anyway, today's price for most development is way out of my league! Even HDB prices also soar!:scared-5:

Regulators
16-07-09, 16:13
my agent told me an executive flat along mei ling street valued at 780k to 800k :scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:



Anyway, today's price for most development is way out of my league! Even HDB prices also soar!:scared-5:

jhokc
16-07-09, 16:20
Just want to point out Bishan is chinese cemetry and the one in Potong Pasir is a "Ang Mo" cemetry.

Chinese Cemetry look at feng shui, not the ang mo. so you cannot compare Bishan to Potong Pasir.

5577
16-07-09, 16:23
my agent told me an executive flat along mei ling street valued at 780k to 800k :scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:

Keke... so I should be happy with my purchase then... Can't imagine paying the same amount for a HDB!!!:scared-3:

Regulators
16-07-09, 16:26
my mother's top floor HDB in dover close already valued at more than 650k and it is about 30 years old. she could make a pile from the sale but chose to stay there for the nice surroundings....



Keke... so I should be happy with my purchase then... Can't imagine paying the same amount for a HDB!!!:scared-3:

5577
16-07-09, 16:27
Just want to point out Bishan is chinese cemetry and the one in Potong Pasir is a "Ang Mo" cemetry.

Chinese Cemetry look at feng shui, not the ang mo. so you cannot compare Bishan to Potong Pasir.

I believe Bidadari has christian, muslim and chinese graves. They are split into different sections. Well, cemetries are cemetries - it's a place where the dead rest (in peace). Doesn't matter which race and religion. ;)

5577
16-07-09, 16:29
my mother's top floor HDB in dover close already valued at more than 650k and it is about 30 years old. she could make a pile from the sale but chose to stay there for the nice surroundings....

Yah... I can understand. Old people dun like to move. They are comfortable where they are and they have their friends and memories of the place they live in. These are probably worth more to them than the $$$ from the sale. :)

sleek
16-07-09, 16:31
Just want to point out Bishan is chinese cemetry and the one in Potong Pasir is a "Ang Mo" cemetry.

Chinese Cemetry look at feng shui, not the ang mo. so you cannot compare Bishan to Potong Pasir.

Bidadari is believed to be derived from the Sanskrit widyadari meaning "nymph of Indra's heaven" or houri, a similar meaning in Persian mythology. One of Johore Sultan Abubakar's wives had set up her Istana residence on Bidadari Estate. When she left the place, the government bought the 45-acre land and a cemetery was opened in 1904, which became Bidadari Cemetery, Singapore's third cemetery with sections for Muslims, Hindus, Singhalese, and a large section for Christians of different denominations.

At the entrance of the Christian - Catholic section, D. M. Craik built a simple well-designed chapel with simple brickwork and exposed roof members, and which became a landmark at the location. Later, it was leased to the Japanese who built moats with typical Japanese wooden bridges and tea houses. The Youngberg Hospital, built by the Seventh Day Adventist Mission was set up there. The cemetery closed for burials in 1972 and only cremations are conducted at Mount Vernon. The 50 ha. of the Bidadari area, is one of 12 subzones in the Toa Payoh area today. By November 2001, the cemetery was cleared to make way for a new MRT Station which is part of the North-East Line. At least 58, 000 graves were located in Bidadari with 45, 000 attributed to burials before 1951.

http://infopedia.nl.sg/articles/SIP_840_2004-12-20.html

sleek
16-07-09, 16:32
I believe Bidadari has christian, muslim and chinese graves. They are split into different sections. Well, cemetries are cemetries - it's a place where the dead rest (in peace). Doesn't matter which race and religion. ;)

All this talk about Bidadari makes you google and find out more, and actually it has a very interesting history. Part of it is above.:cool:

5577
16-07-09, 16:36
All this talk about Bidadari makes you google and find out more, and actually it has a very interesting history. Part of it is above.:cool:

Haha... rather than feeling and eerie about living near a cemetry, one can also look from a different point of view - that it is a land of peace with different races and religion 'living' in harmony!

And what does peace and harmony bring - wealth! So be open minded! :)

sleek
16-07-09, 16:38
Haha... rather than feeling and eerie about living near a cemetry, one can also look from a different point of view - that it is a land of peace with different races and religion 'living' in harmony!

And what does peace and harmony bring - wealth! So be open minded! :)

Yeah! :cheers1:

cheerful
16-07-09, 16:42
hi 5577 .. PGE a couple of mths still got .. now no more liao lah.

wahh so much talk & theories about cemetery land ...

:p

5577
16-07-09, 16:42
Yeah! :cheers1:
Cheers, neighbour! :cheers5: