View Full Version : Illuminaire (D9, Freehold, EL Development)
While it is good to be frugal, but having multiple properties and yet didn't even want to afford a car is at too much extreme especially when typical family car that is value-for-money type is really cheap now with COE just at $7k+ (may be just 'peanuts' expenses to them?). This is no longer considered 'frugal' but 'miser'. Regardless of whatever, the convenience & comfort of a car cannot be compared to taking public transport (the buses and MRTs always so crowded - a lot of free perfumes and free bodily contacts (good only for those who enjoy it and some free fingering/touching - I am sure women hate it!)). Waiting time in some areas are also quite long and irregular. Does he have wife & kids? He is not even willing to give his wife and kids more comfortable life style? Don't understand why people want to save on such 'peanut' expenses on car? (we are not talking about spending on those so-called branded luxury car but just typical Toyota or Honda saloon or MPV). (May be he enjoy letting his wife and daughters let people touch here and there?). :banghead:
What car you drive doesn't really matter.
I've a friend who drives a nice Audi (at least to me). But his income goes towards paying his property & car loan every month. He hardly has extra cash as savings.
I also know of a low profile miliionair who own multiple properties but he don't drive at all. I ask him why? He says it a depreciating asset, dn't want to waste money. Besides, transport system is too good here (Taxi, MRT, bus), there is no need to spend this kind of money. It's his own way of money management. This is his personal opinion of car. Doesn't mean that everyone has to be like him.
But it's a fact that when economy is bad, people get rid of their car as the firstt resort to reduce expenses. I've seen a few friends/relatives who have gone through this.
While it is good to be frugal, but having multiple properties and yet didn't even want to afford a car is at too much extreme especially when typical family car that is value-for-money type is really cheap now with COE just at $7k+ (may be just 'peanuts' expenses to them?). This is no longer considered 'frugal' but 'miser'. Regardless of whatever, the convenience & comfort of a car cannot be compared to taking public transport (the buses and MRTs always so crowded - a lot of free perfumes and free bodily contacts (good only for those who enjoy it and some free fingering/touching - I am sure women hate it!)). Waiting time in some areas are also quite long and irregular. Does he have wife & kids? He is not even willing to give his wife and kids more comfortable life style? Don't understand why people want to save on such 'peanut' expenses on car? (we are not talking about spending on those so-called branded luxury car but just typical Toyota or Honda saloon or MPV). (May be he enjoy letting his wife and daughters let people touch here and there?). :banghead:
Alamak. People not as extreme as you have described lah. Your thinking is too extreme lah.
You only know MRT & BUS? You missed out another transport. In Singapore, there is another form of transport with 4 wheels, the same size as a normal car but with a company logo on it. The spelling is "T", "A", "X", "I". If you put them together, it's the word "TAXI".
There is also no lack of luxury version if you need one. It's call "LIMOUSINE". You can chose to have Mercedes Cab, Maxi Cab, London Cab, Space MPV Taxi, Chrysler Cab, Limo Cab. People already spoilt for choices already my friend.
BTW, you just need to dial a number & it's waiting outside at the lobby in 5mins time. If you don't like to wait, you can call for advance booking.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an employee of any TAXI COMPANY.
Ops, sorry, have not used a taxi for don't know how long. The last time I booked a cab also have to wait for about half an hour, and endure poor attitude by the taxi driver. Then the ride is so jerky as he swings in and out and suddenly jammed brake so often (look damn dangerous and always like going to get into accident). I would prefer not to use a taxi unless no choice.
Alamak. People not as extreme as you have described lah. Your thinking is too extreme lah.
You only know MRT & BUS? You missed out another transport. In Singapore, there is another form of transport with 4 wheels, the same size as a normal car but with a company logo on it. The spelling is "T", "A", "X", "I". If you put them together, it's the word "TAXI".
There is also no lack of luxury version if you need one. It's call "LIMOUSINE". You can chose to have Mercedes Cab, Maxi Cab, London Cab, Space MPV Taxi, Chrysler Cab, Limo Cab. People already spoilt for choices already my friend.
BTW, you just need to dial a number & it's waiting outside at the lobby in 5mins time. If you don't like to wait, you can call for advance booking.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an employee of any TAXI COMPANY.
Ops, sorry, have not used a taxi for don't know how long. The last time I booked a cab also have to wait for about half an hour, and endure poor attitude by the taxi driver. Then the ride is so jerky as he swings in and out and suddenly jammed brake so often (look damn dangerous and always like going to get into accident). I would prefer not to use a taxi unless no choice.
i like it! is shiok to ride in a taxi that drives like this :p
pity other drivers around it though ...
The super rich buy Rolls Royce and get their chauffeurs to drive them around and would prefer not to be seen. The half-past six rich will buy flashy cars like Porsche, BMW and Benz and drive around as a statement and want people to see their faces as they go about in their cars. The rich pppl who couldnt care less bout cars would just commute in a taxi everyday as a normal mode of transport. It is more expensive to travel everyday in a cab especially when you factor in the booking charges....
pwah just heard from agent that last weekend a low-flr unit at the sail transacted for about $1800psf or so. dunno whether true or not, look forward to the caveats
Are you sure the really rich take taxi and can endure the wait and see the 'face' of Singapore's taxi driver? They surely scare kidnaper will masquerade as taxi-driver right (unless they also live in some cheap house)?
The super rich buy Rolls Royce and get their chauffeurs to drive them around and would prefer not to be seen. The half-past six rich will buy flashy cars like Porsche, BMW and Benz and drive around as a statement and want people to see their faces as they go about in their cars. The rich pppl who couldnt care less bout cars would just commute in a taxi everyday as a normal mode of transport. It is more expensive to travel everyday in a cab especially when you factor in the booking charges....
pwah just heard from agent that last weekend a low-flr unit at the sail transacted for about $1800psf or so. dunno whether true or not, look forward to the caveats
same agents who claimed all the rivergate sales in April (Where are they)? Why worry, fundamentals are still down
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8011907.stm
There will be more layoffs, rental is still headed down. The Sail still has so many unoccupied units. Lets just wait and see how long the holding power lasts. There will always be a couple of units in Singapore that will get ridiculous prices, because Singapore also attracts the Supra wealthy around the world (inherited wealth, who dont know crap about building wealth) who dont need to invest wisely. If it is for their own stay, than good for them.
As for the car debate here. I think a car in Singapore is a total waste of money. Driving is not fun here, and a car is not a status symbol, it is transport from A-B. Anyone can lease a nice car these days, so what. To draw conclusions on a person based on what car he drives is setting yourself off for over/under-estimating that person. Personally, I prefer a premium taxi service, as I can work, and do some networking without having to worry about driving. If you consider all costs of ownership of a car in Singapore (parking, maintance, insurance, servicing etc), and dont mind using MRT when possible or even the bus during off-peak, and walking a bit than using a Taxi is quite affordable. For me úsing a Taxi has reduced my stress levels, and because I sometimes choose to walk short distances now, I even lost some weight.
Car is not a total waste as you mention - at least they provide more conveniency and comfort. For the rich, they will definitely have their own "taxi" - their own car that comes with a chaffeur to drive them around - No stress, more comfortable ride than taxi, and don't have to wait for taxi, don't have to see the taxi driver's face, and safer too (because better and safer car, chaffeur cum body guard mah), somebody to drive their family members around and knowing they are in safe hand etc. What is the few $k a month to the rich? They won't even think about the cost of the car.
same agents who claimed all the rivergate sales in April (Where are they)? Why worry, fundamentals are still down
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8011907.stm
There will be more layoffs, rental is still headed down. The Sail still has so many unoccupied units. Lets just wait and see how long the holding power lasts. There will always be a couple of units in Singapore that will get ridiculous prices, because Singapore also attracts the Supra wealthy around the world (inherited wealth, who dont know crap about building wealth) who dont need to invest wisely. If it is for their own stay, than good for them.
As for the car debate here. I think a car in Singapore is a total waste of money. Driving is not fun here, and a car is not a status symbol, it is transport from A-B. Anyone can lease a nice car these days, so what. To draw conclusions on a person based on what car he drives is setting yourself off for over/under-estimating that person. Personally, I prefer a premium taxi service, as I can work, and do some networking without having to worry about driving. If you consider all costs of ownership of a car in Singapore (parking, maintance, insurance, servicing etc), and dont mind using MRT when possible or even the bus during off-peak, and walking a bit than using a Taxi is quite affordable. For me úsing a Taxi has reduced my stress levels, and because I sometimes choose to walk short distances now, I even lost some weight.
Congratulations! :cheers1: What model is that? New one or 2nd hand one?. Oh by the way, don't you know interest is so low now? The really rich will tell you that if they can they will take a 100% loan from the bank at 2% interest and use those money to earn 10% or more return. As the saying goes, "The clever uses other people's money to earn more money, the dumb uses their hand to earn more money." :tsk-tsk:
Another thing, why go for BMW of all cars? BMW is now like an Ah Beng's car. Are you one of their gang? :p
don't be sour grapes lah ;)
i have never bought second hand cars...i know, its stupid because used ones are usually better deals but that's just me :D
of course, the current interest for loan is very low...but still higher than what the bank pay me for cash deposits. i just dislike taking loans. the beemer is not for me to drive,why drive when you can be driven? :D sure, just go ahead and condemn a beemer and buy a toyota instead :rolleyes:
anyway, these are spare cash to contribute to the economy. money for business is a separate bucket. by the way, i have never borrowed money for business too ;)
(The BMW 320i is just about $130k!)
:cheers1: obviously an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about, no wonder we have such idiots in the forum telling others that many tom dick and harrys with only 8K/mth combined household income can easily buy million dollar homes. and telling others that properties are cheap now and you will regret if you don't buy now :rolleyes:
hi folks, this thread is so out-dated now....prepare for the next property wave coming this weekend...
Yes, a re-launch @ River Valley Grove is starting this wkend.
Pricing starts from 1500-1650psf up.
For details, pls visit my website www.lusholmz.com (http://www.lusholmz.com)
this is the new illuminaire :spliff: perhaps even better
Please check the price again, a BMW 320i is now about $130k! If you have paid much higher than that, then you would have become the carrot-head (an idiot in the seller's eyes)!. :banghead:
:cheers1: obviously an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about, no wonder we have such idiots in the forum telling others that many tom dick and harrys with only 8K/mth combined household income can easily buy million dollar homes. and telling others that properties are cheap now and you will regret if you don't buy now :rolleyes:
Thanks for telling me that. From your statement, I can be very sure that you cannot be the 'really rich' one. :rolleyes:
don't be sour grapes lah ;)
i have never bought second hand cars...i know, its stupid because used ones are usually better deals but that's just me :D
of course, the current interest for loan is very low...but still higher than what the bank pay me for cash deposits. i just dislike taking loans. the beemer is not for me to drive,why drive when you can be driven? :D sure, just go ahead and condemn a beemer and buy a toyota instead :rolleyes:
anyway, these are spare cash to contribute to the economy. money for business is a separate bucket. by the way, i have never borrowed money for business too ;)
I must say you are quite good at being sarcastic to the extent it appears diplomatic and yet without too direct. Like your style of putting a downwash on another case of wilful snobbery whom perhaps have tried too hard.
Good one.
That's BMW for you. Lots of poseurs who take low ownpayment, long tenure loans. These are the same people who can barely afford one. I dunno why, it is characteristic of the BMW brand's buyers in Singapore.
If I were you, I wouldn't pay cash for a new beemer. BMW's image is already such that people will just assume you're one of those 10 year loan, 0% downpayment poseurs who could ill-afford a BMW, when they see you on the streets. Might as well take a loan. You can't wear a sign on your beemer proclaiming that you paid cash, anyways.
In this premium conti, sub-exotic price segment, the smart money drive Maserati, MB, Volvo and maybe Jaguar. Carrotheads almost always drive Audi/Volkswagen, while dealers laughing to the bank. I draw the line at Porsche, despite knowing the dealer's obscene profit margins. Why? Same as Benz, the prestige of Porsche takes you a long way, plus the performance of the Cayman and 911 cars are better than anything BMW has to offer.
They say you can guess the character and personality of a person from the car he drives. Well I am sad and disappointed to say that the smart yuppie image of BMW drivers has long gone. BMW's are incredibly passe now. Jeremy Clarkson calls it a car driven by cocks (pricks).
Now when you see a BMW on the roads, it is highly likely the driver is some ah beng, ah pek or ah soh. Whatever happened to the stylish dashing young BMW driver profile?
Being a long term fan of BMW, having owned 3 in past years, just last year I switched to the 3 point star with a V8. It could have been due to my age, but more likely: 1) fed up with BMW's N52 engine, supposedly one of their best engines. 2) fed up with the BMW ah beng poseur image. Same reason why i'll never be caught dead in a GTi but i'll be happy to be seen in a Cooper S.
I'm not taking any sides here, but since we're on cars, i have to state categorically that a 320 (or 180k, A4, etc) are essentially south african tin cans with an engine, that people are paying through their teeth just for the brand. grossly underpowered. A 320 is to contis what a chery qq is to asian makes.
lexus lah, no horse run ~~ :smiling-jap:
dunno much about the IS. is it any good?
dunno much about the IS. is it any good?
dunno leh, looks smart ...
after all the sharing by experts, think next one will ditch conti and aim toyota liao ~ :ashamed1:
I'm not taking any sides here, but since we're on cars, i have to state categorically that a 320 (or 180k, A4, etc) are essentially south african tin cans with an engine, that people are paying through their teeth just for the brand. grossly underpowered. A 320 is to contis what a chery qq is to asian makes.
320 yes, MISA. However the current C180 and A4 are both from Germany. A4 has always been from germany while the previous generation C-Class (lower engined models) were from SA.
dunno much about the IS. is it any good?
Personally, the IS an even more wannabe...a 320 wannabe. And I can't get over the fact that it feels just so japanese. Could be because Lexus major market is US and the American's who are used to their own lux models from GM, Ford are willing to accept the superior (c/w US cars) interior of a lexus. But c/w premium conti, even if JD Power reports shows a lot of them has quality issues, somehow its feels different...less plasticky (except for BMW).
Please check this website for "BMW 3 Series Sedan 320i (A) 2009" selling Latest Price: S$131,800 (9 Apr 2009):
http://www.oneshift.com/pdb/car_overview.php?pid=654
By the way, this selling price is from BMW authorized dealer:
Performance Motors Ltd (http://www.oneshift.com/merchant/merchant_details.php?merchantid=640) Address: 303 Alexandra Road #01-01 Singapore 159941
Tel: 6319 0100 Web: http://www.pml.com.sg/bmw/
(Go to parallel importer will be even cheaper!)
Come on, nowsdays with internet, want to bluff who? Don't be a idiot who knows how to stick head in the sand and sprout nonsense as though people won't know you are sprouting nonsense. :tsk-tsk:
you are a laughing stock here..........:D
(The BMW 320i is just about $130k!)
:cheers1: obviously an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about, no wonder we have such idiots in the forum telling others that many tom dick and harrys with only 8K/mth combined household income can easily buy million dollar homes. and telling others that properties are cheap now and you will regret if you don't buy now :rolleyes:
lol severely off-topic liao.. please open a new thread at www.bmw-sg.com :rolleyes:
Thanks for telling me that. From your statement, I can be very sure that you cannot be the 'really rich' one. :rolleyes:
lol, already stated so clearly before that other than you, i am probably the poorest in this forum :D
Please check this website for "BMW 3 Series Sedan 320i (A) 2009" selling Latest Price: S$131,800 (9 Apr 2009):
http://www.oneshift.com/pdb/car_overview.php?pid=654
By the way, this selling price is from BMW authorized dealer:
Performance Motors Ltd (http://www.oneshift.com/merchant/merchant_details.php?merchantid=640) Address: 303 Alexandra Road #01-01 Singapore 159941
Tel: 6319 0100 Web: http://www.pml.com.sg/bmw/
(Go to parallel importer will be even cheaper!)
Come on, nowsdays with internet, want to bluff who? Don't be a idiot who knows how to stick head in the sand and sprout nonsense as though people won't know you are sprouting nonsense. :tsk-tsk:
you are a laughing stock here..........:D
this is a classic example of a keyboard idiot. imagine posting as facts what he reads from the internet without any inkling of what the real situation is :D
the beemer i bought was listed at a much higher price than that but any idiot will know that when you are a genuine buyer, the actual price is very much lower :rolleyes:
all this talk about performance motors and bmw from someone who obviously has not gone beyond browsing pricelists online :spliff: try to walk into the showrooms at alexandra or bukit timah for a test drive and if the SE think you can afford to buy one, they may quote you the real price instead of from a standard pricelist to brush you off :rolleyes:
This is so typical of such idiotic response from you, the comments made as though you are "GOD" and you can "predict" (but to others they know you are "halucinating") what will happen in the future (e.g. property prices will sure drop). Now, you are predicting I am poorer than you? :scared-1:. Never mind, you can continue to halucinate about this. It is perfectly fine with me and I still enjoy poking fun of such idiot for entertainment and everyone here has the right mind to know who is the idiotic one. :tongue3:
I believe many here enjoy the entertainment from you as well. :p
lol, already stated so clearly before that other than you, i am probably the poorest in this forum :D
OK, rich man, I am just "too poor to walk into the BMW showroom" (if this makes you happier).
Anyway, I really don't understand why anybody would want to buy an "Ah Beng" car such as BMW which is not value-for-money at such "carrothead" price (even after knowing the so-called "real-price" which is cheaper than the standard pricelist) unless he is so "Ah Beng"! Ha ha! :samurai-killa:
Oh, by the way, $131k already so cheap for branded cars and you are telling me that it is just the standard pricelist? Wah, the cheaper "real-price" must be really cheap! After knowing this, this really confirm many people's impression that the BMW 320i although branded as luxury car but is really an "Ah Beng" car and it is for those who want to show that "I don't have too much money but I still want to show off and this is the limit I can show off". Ha ha! Funny clown! Really makes people laugh! We are really entertained here! :tongue2:
this is a classic example of a keyboard idiot. imagine posting as facts what he reads from the internet without any inkling of what the real situation is :D
the beemer i bought was listed at a much higher price than that but any idiot will know that when you are a genuine buyer, the actual price is very much lower :rolleyes:
all this talk about performance motors and bmw from someone who obviously has not gone beyond browsing pricelists online :spliff: try to walk into the showrooms at alexandra or bukit timah for a test drive and if the SE think you can afford to buy one, they may quote you the real price instead of from a standard pricelist to brush you off :rolleyes:
OK, rich man, I am just "too poor to walk into the BMW showroom" (if this makes you happier).
Anyway, I really don't understand why anybody would want to buy an "Ah Beng" car such as BMW which is not value-for-money at such "carrothead" price (even after knowing the so-called "real-price" which is cheaper than the standard pricelist) unless he is so "Ah Beng"! Ha ha! :samurai-killa:
Oh, by the way, $131k already so cheap for branded cars and you are telling me that it is just the standard pricelist? Wah, the cheaper "real-price" must be really cheap! After knowing this, this really confirm many people's impression that the BMW 320i although branded as luxury car but is really an "Ah Beng" car and it is for those who want to show that "I don't have too much money but I still want to show off and this is the limit I can show off". Ha ha! Funny clown! Really makes people laugh! We are really entertained here! :tongue2:
Wat a loser, with a capital `L'. After being exposed for talking rubbish and just know how to quote online articles and information (both relating to cars and property), all you can muster is just further name-calling? Get a life, kid. Property is not your game. Be careful or you may lose your family....its like gambling. Or are you already holding on to a hot potato and knew that you will lose your $$ soon if property prices do not recover soon?
Which could explain why you are trying so desperately to urge people to buy now, even though its very clear to many that property prices WILL go down. And it doesn't take super-natural power to know that. Just common sense and logic. You have been taunting people and asking if they are `God' a few days back because they say property prices will drop. Well, URA index has shown prices has dropped. I'm definitely not supernatural being, but I knew prices will drop. Come to think of it, it appears you are the devil :simmering: constantly trying to get people into trouble by asking people to buy properties now. So pls refrain from using the word `God' in vain. Its blasphemy and distasteful. :tsk-tsk:
OK, rich man, I am just "too poor to walk into the BMW showroom" (if this makes you happier).
Anyway, I really don't understand why anybody would want to buy an "Ah Beng" car such as BMW which is not value-for-money at such "carrothead" price (even after knowing the so-called "real-price" which is cheaper than the standard pricelist) unless he is so "Ah Beng"! Ha ha! :samurai-killa:
Oh, by the way, $131k already so cheap for branded cars and you are telling me that it is just the standard pricelist? Wah, the cheaper "real-price" must be really cheap! After knowing this, this really confirm many people's impression that the BMW 320i although branded as luxury car but is really an "Ah Beng" car and it is for those who want to show that "I don't have too much money but I still want to show off and this is the limit I can show off". Ha ha! Funny clown! Really makes people laugh! We are really entertained here! :tongue2:
And btw, if you want to commit financial sucide, do it yourself. Pls do not encourage others to join in your death train. I have never known anyone who were bankrupt because they were holding cash. But I have certainly seen lots of cases whereby they have lost lifesavings or substantial amount of their retirement funds due to buying property at the peak and over-stretching themselves with leverage. And if anyone is worried holding cash will erode their value through inflation, just buy gold. Go to UOB and buy their physical gold using your cash. That is the real hedge against inflation in these times when property prices are still high and if you are afraid of losing the value of cash. Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation.
lol.. the crass cartman is back sprouting dooms day msg. if you are so convinced that prices are going down -why dont u also sell ur father, mother, wife, dick (dont know if u have) and short the market? I reckon u are just another loud mouth anyway.
btw - everytime u sprout rubbish - i will be here to give u a hard bong to ur dick - regardless if u try to laugh it off or not :tongue3: i am sure with ur so many lol - ur face must be twisted now. ouch!:cheers6:
Check it out! Official URA index shows property index has dropped again :scared-1: Now the vacancy rate is 5.9% I can't wait to see more properties TOP in the coming months, and more exodus of expats, and see the vacency rate hit 10%. Now, that will be a delight for those who patiently wait for prices to drop. That will be the time all you jokers who ask people to buy now disappear into thin air, never to come back into this forum to post your rubbish again because you would have realised your folly and would have been working hard and your socks off to pay off your 35 year mortagage, that is if you are fortunate enough to still keep your job or be able to find a job. I shudder to think a worse case scenario :scared-4:
Are you BLIND? Did I not make myself very clear in this forum that "I didn't ask people to BUY or SELL"? Since I didn't, I don't understand what you are trying to drive at. Another idiotic LOSER here just like your good buddy cartman who like to presume and then make all sort of assumptions & guesses. :hell-hath-no-fury:
Wat a loser, with a capital `L'. After being exposed for talking rubbish and just know how to quote online articles and information (both relating to cars and property), all you can muster is just further name-calling? Get a life, kid. Property is not your game. Be careful or you may lose your family....its like gambling. Or are you already holding on to a hot potato and knew that you will lose your $$ soon if property prices do not recover soon?
Which could explain why you are trying so desperately to urge people to buy now, even though its very clear to many that property prices WILL go down. And it doesn't take super-natural power to know that. Just common sense and logic. You have been taunting people and asking if they are `God' a few days back because they say property prices will drop. Well, URA index has shown prices has dropped. I'm definitely not supernatural being, but I knew prices will drop. Come to think of it, it appears you are the devil :simmering: constantly trying to get people into trouble by asking people to buy properties now. So pls refrain from using the word `God' in vain. Its blasphemy and distasteful. :tsk-tsk:
HP65 and Teddybear, you both talk too much rubbish that does not belong in this thread at all........
Everybody entitled to their own opinion......
My personal one is that we have reached the bottom in general (though of course that does not mean for every individual condo, and of course, there will be some good deals and emergency sales still).....but at least if one is buying for own stay, does it really matter in the long run if price will drop 5% more or not.....
My reply to you previously:
"Are you BLIND? Did I not make myself very clear in this forum that "I didn't ask people to BUY or SELL"? Since I didn't, I don't understand what you are trying to drive at. Another idiotic LOSER here just like your good buddy cartman who like to presume and then make all sort of assumptions & guesses. :hell-hath-no-fury:"
Presumptions, Presumptions, Presumptions! Now we are seeing another "GOD"-like character like cartman! How do you know people will be commiting financial suicide if they buy now? May be people who buy now will be making lots of money 3-5 years down the road? (though I am not telling people to BUY now because I have no such capability to foresee future and it is best left to individual to decide). So, who know whether it is the right time to BUY or SELL now? If you say BUYING now is financial suicide and that the property is over-priced now and the property price will certainly decline vs infation (as you mentioned: "Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation"), you are doing on the presumption that even 3-5 years down the road property price will not recover higher than now. NOW, who can confidently say such thing except "GOD"? So, this just exposed another LOSER and a liar if he can say all this with confidence! :tongue3:
Now worst still, you are advocating people to buy PHYSICAL GOLD? Is GOLD a real hedge against inflation? My Gosh! People who buy private property now can still live in and enjoy the facilities while waiting for it to appreciate. People who buy physical gold which does not earn interest and still have to incur handling charges etc may be they can eat some GOLD while waiting for the price to go up so that they can sell later? (because nobody knows whether GOLD will go up or go down in future!). You are advocating to consider buying GOLD meaning you are telling people GOLD will go up in FUTURE? :eek: I better let the others think about these and decide for themselves.
And btw, if you want to commit financial sucide, do it yourself. Pls do not encourage others to join in your death train. I have never known anyone who were bankrupt because they were holding cash. But I have certainly seen lots of cases whereby they have lost lifesavings or substantial amount of their retirement funds due to buying property at the peak and over-stretching themselves with leverage. And if anyone is worried holding cash will erode their value through inflation, just buy gold. Go to UOB and buy their physical gold using your cash. That is the real hedge against inflation in these times when property prices are still high and if you are afraid of losing the value of cash. Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation.
No choice lah, I get drawn away after some idiots keep harping at me and sprouting non-sense that property price sure drop etc. I am just asking them to justify why they are SO SURE PROPERTY PRICE will SURE DROP and they start attacking me left, right, centre. :doh: They have hidden agenda?
HP65 and Teddybear, you both talk too much rubbish that does not belong in this thread at all........
Everybody entitled to their own opinion......
My personal one is that we have reached the bottom in general (though of course that does not mean for every individual condo, and of course, there will be some good deals and emergency sales still).....but at least if one is buying for own stay, does it really matter in the long run if price will drop 5% more or not.....
My reply to you previously:
"Are you BLIND? Did I not make myself very clear in this forum that "I didn't ask people to BUY or SELL"? Since I didn't, I don't understand what you are trying to drive at. Another idiotic LOSER here just like your good buddy cartman who like to presume and then make all sort of assumptions & guesses. :hell-hath-no-fury:"
Presumptions, Presumptions, Presumptions! Now we are seeing another "GOD"-like character like cartman! How do you know people will be commiting financial suicide if they buy now? May be people who buy now will be making lots of money 3-5 years down the road? (though I am not telling people to BUY now because I have no such capability to foresee future and it is best left to individual to decide). So, who know whether it is the right time to BUY or SELL now? If you say BUYING now is financial suicide and that the property is over-priced now and the property price will certainly decline vs infation (as you mentioned: "Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation"), you are doing on the presumption that even 3-5 years down the road property price will not recover higher than now. NOW, who can confidently say such thing except "GOD"? So, this just exposed another LOSER and a liar if he can say all this with confidence! :tongue3:
Now worst still, you are advocating people to buy PHYSICAL GOLD? Is GOLD a real hedge against inflation? My Gosh! People who buy private property now can still live in and enjoy the facilities while waiting for it to appreciate. People who buy physical gold which does not earn interest and still have to incur handling charges etc may be they can eat some GOLD while waiting for the price to go up so that they can sell later? (because nobody knows whether GOLD will go up or go down in future!). You are advocating to consider buying GOLD meaning you are telling people GOLD will go up in FUTURE? :eek: I better let the others think about these and decide for themselves.
From your answer, its obvious you have no idea what is the objective of investment in gold. Price appreciation? LOL anyway, i wouldnt bother to educate you on this. I think you need to pay tuition fees to learn....or maybe you are already in the process of paying now, I dun really care.
I can see that whenever you have been exposed or lose an argument, you try to find other `issues' to divert attention from your folly. But its obvious you only know how to dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports (which includes bias report from property agency which naturally encourage people to buy property all the time).
Finally, you seem to like to use God's name in vain :tsk-tsk: pure folly and i'm sure you will regret it someday.
Regulators
25-04-09, 22:43
it is true that we never knw when pty prices will recover or continue to head south. In the past there were many who criticised those who queue up to buy icon, the sail, one shenton, sentosa cove n a whole string of other ptys, but these ppl r still laughng to the bank. Thus nobody is a real guru to predict the cycle 100%. Just look at number of so called analysts who gave the wrong calls on stocks n got many investors in deep shit. My advice trust own instincts 70% n rely 30% on sme research
If any investment is not to look for price appreciation and hence profit, what for? Buy physical gold to eat or sleep in it? (At least with property I am very sure we can sleep in it). I don't need you to educate me on gold because I am simply not interested. :rolleyes:
Find another issue? Who is the first to start telling people to buy physical gold in reply to my posting? Looks like you are the one diverting from the discussed issue and finding another issue and start dishing out advice to buy physical gold. :banghead: Why you keep insisting I (quote from you): "dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports"? I quote but I never "advice". What people want to interpret the reports etc is up to them. You are the one dishing out all sort of "advice" here, e.g.: (1) Ask people not to buy property because they sure drop; (2) Ask people to buy physical gold! What is your basis for advicing people to buy gold? If you didn't read some article etc and believe in it's value, you think you are the originator of the idea that gold is a hedge against inflation? :doh:
Those who like to act like GOD and dishing out "GOD"-like prophecies and advices and keep insisting that they are right and all others are wrong (keep harassing those who believe otherwise) will know what they will receive in future. :tongue3:
From your answer, its obvious you have no idea what is the objective of investment in gold. Price appreciation? LOL anyway, i wouldnt bother to educate you on this. I think you need to pay tuition fees to learn....or maybe you are already in the process of paying now, I dun really care.
I can see that whenever you have been exposed or lose an argument, you try to find other `issues' to divert attention from your folly. But its obvious you only know how to dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports (which includes bias report from property agency which naturally encourage people to buy property all the time).
Finally, you seem to like to use God's name in vain :tsk-tsk: pure folly and i'm sure you will regret it someday.
If any investment is not to look for price appreciation and hence profit, what for? Buy physical gold to eat or sleep in it? (At least with property I am very sure we can sleep in it). I don't need you to educate me on gold because I am simply not interested. :rolleyes:
Find another issue? Who is the first to start telling people to buy physical gold in reply to my posting? Looks like you are the one diverting from the discussed issue and finding another issue and start dishing out advice to buy physical gold. :banghead: Why you keep insisting I (quote from you): "dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports"? I quote but I never "advice". What people want to interpret the reports etc is up to them. You are the one dishing out all sort of "advice" here, e.g.: (1) Ask people not to buy property because they sure drop; (2) Ask people to buy physical gold! What is your basis for advicing people to buy gold? If you didn't read some article etc and believe in it's value, you think you are the originator of the idea that gold is a hedge against inflation? :doh:
Those who like to act like GOD and dishing out "GOD"-like prophecies and advices and keep insisting that they are right and all others are wrong (keep harassing those who believe otherwise) will know what they will receive in future. :tongue3:
Your behaviour reminds me greatly of my son when he was younger. Sad but true. Constantly trying to find excuses to defend his foolish and petulant acts. But that is not bad enough.
Worse still displaying a total lack of integrity in constantly advocating buying properties when you doesnt have the slightest understanding of investment. Walk into any bank and ask the PB to explain why do ple invest in Gold. Its free advice.
And until you understand why, then come back to the forum to discuss property. Otherwise, you are just like many `retail investors' who often buy by following herd instinct and usually end up buying high and needing to sell it when low.
No choice lah, I get drawn away after some idiots keep harping at me and sprouting non-sense that property price sure drop etc. I am just asking them to justify why they are SO SURE PROPERTY PRICE will SURE DROP and they start attacking me left, right, centre. :doh: They have hidden agenda?
The prices are sure to drop the next 12 months because, of macro-economic conditions. "The global economy is set to decline by 1.3% in 2009, in the first global recession since World War II, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) says."
Read this:
bbc article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8011907.stm)
Singapore cannot escape macro-economic realities. Real GDP is expected to decline by -10% in 2009. (page 82, IMF report (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2009/01/pdf/text.pdf))
So lets recap.
- 10% Real GDP decrease
- More lay-offs of high income jobs by multinationals
- higher unemployement
- Thousands of units on market currently fighting for rental!
- Thousands of units coming to market in next 2 years
- DPS financed units, yet to TOP.
- As an investment current property prices are too high, because the "real" ROI is only around 2%. Way too low, for any value investor!
- Property (condo) in Singapore since 2004 on bull run, outrunning GDP growth, which means people have overpaid.
- before property recovers, economy recovers. Well wait the next 6 months until you hear the horror stories (banking may be through theirs, but other industries are yet to follow)
- lets wait a year or two for interest rate to reach normal levels 3-4%. Than we will see how people will handle their morgage payments.
So tell me why should property not come down? On average property is still too expensive. There might be a few exceptions to the rule. How ever there is a serious oversupply of condo´s in Singapore. Nothing will change that for the next 2 years.
If any investment is not to look for price appreciation and hence profit, what for? Buy physical gold to eat or sleep in it? (At least with property I am very sure we can sleep in it). I don't need you to educate me on gold because I am simply not interested. :rolleyes:
Find another issue? Who is the first to start telling people to buy physical gold in reply to my posting? Looks like you are the one diverting from the discussed issue and finding another issue and start dishing out advice to buy physical gold. :banghead: Why you keep insisting I (quote from you): "dish out `advice' based on your online research, quotes, and media reports"? I quote but I never "advice". What people want to interpret the reports etc is up to them. You are the one dishing out all sort of "advice" here, e.g.: (1) Ask people not to buy property because they sure drop; (2) Ask people to buy physical gold! What is your basis for advicing people to buy gold? If you didn't read some article etc and believe in it's value, you think you are the originator of the idea that gold is a hedge against inflation? :doh:
Those who like to act like GOD and dishing out "GOD"-like prophecies and advices and keep insisting that they are right and all others are wrong (keep harassing those who believe otherwise) will know what they will receive in future. :tongue3:
Incidentally, did you read that China has increased their gold reserves by 3/4 since 2003? If not, do yourself a favour, spend $1 (i'm sure you have that) and get a copy of Business Times.
So what? Just because China is buying gold so you ask people to follow & buy? You don't know how to dissect & digest the information is it? Despite of increasing the gold reserves by 3/4 since 2003, you don't know that their total value in gold is just a pantry 1.6% of their total foreign reserves? China is still buying & holding don't know how many times more money in US$ and US Treasury bills (compared to gold). As such, based on your analogy, shouldn't people have more reason to buy US$ and US Treasury bills (to get themselves into same proportion as China's investment)? Talk as though you are so old and hence portraying yourselves to be so super knowledgeable and experience and YET these information that I mentioned you also don't know? (OR you trying to mislead to convince people to 'invest' in gold?) :tongue3:
Incidentally, did you read that China has increased their gold reserves by 3/4 since 2003? If not, do yourself a favour, spend $1 (i'm sure you have that) and get a copy of Business Times.
I have no comments on your son. None of my concern anyway. Not sure why he has a father like you though. :eek:
Secondly, please don't put words into my mouth because I have repeated don't know how many times that "I didn't ask people to Buy property now (nor ask them NOT to buy)". You are the one asking people not to buy and giving all sort of reasons which obviously also comes from news and research reports. Don't know why you consider yourselves to have such 'good integrity' in insisting that I asked people to buy property now (contrary to facts)?:scared-2:
If I am going to believe in the private bankers, I must have a wire 'short' in the head! These people tried to persuade me to buy structured deposits previously and got scrutinized by me upside down. Obviously, I didn't buy and the rest is history (so many people lost so much money on these). Now they (& you) are trying to pester GOLD? Free advice? Forget it man! These 'free advice' is going to cost many more people a lot of their money. :scared-1: Many of the retail investors are going to do better without these private bankers' 'free advice'! :rolleyes:
Your behaviour reminds me greatly of my son when he was younger. Sad but true. Constantly trying to find excuses to defend his foolish and petulant acts. But that is not bad enough.
Worse still displaying a total lack of integrity in constantly advocating buying properties when you doesnt have the slightest understanding of investment. Walk into any bank and ask the PB to explain why do ple invest in Gold. Its free advice.
And until you understand why, then come back to the forum to discuss property. Otherwise, you are just like many `retail investors' who often buy by following herd instinct and usually end up buying high and needing to sell it when low.
What you have mentioned are known news and they are lagging information. They are useless to investors. What matter to all investors & the Most important thing is the future: If they buy now, will they make/loss money in 5 years time and by how much? Can you tell us how much the price will drop in next 12 months? Can you tell us how much the property will go up/down in 5 years time? I bet nobody will know these answers (unless he is GOD). May be you can be more constructive by presenting a more balanced views by disserting and digesting the information rather than just regurgitating the bad news on property which is just telling us what we already knew?
The prices are sure to drop the next 12 months because, of macro-economic conditions. "The global economy is set to decline by 1.3% in 2009, in the first global recession since World War II, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) says."
Read this:
bbc article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8011907.stm)
Singapore cannot escape macro-economic realities. Real GDP is expected to decline by -10% in 2009. (page 82, IMF report (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2009/01/pdf/text.pdf))
So lets recap.
- 10% Real GDP decrease
- More lay-offs of high income jobs by multinationals
- higher unemployement
- Thousands of units on market currently fighting for rental!
- Thousands of units coming to market in next 2 years
- DPS financed units, yet to TOP.
- As an investment current property prices are too high, because the "real" ROI is only around 2%. Way too low, for any value investor!
- Property (condo) in Singapore since 2004 on bull run, outrunning GDP growth, which means people have overpaid.
- before property recovers, economy recovers. Well wait the next 6 months until you hear the horror stories (banking may be through theirs, but other industries are yet to follow)
- lets wait a year or two for interest rate to reach normal levels 3-4%. Than we will see how people will handle their morgage payments.
So tell me why should property not come down? On average property is still too expensive. There might be a few exceptions to the rule. How ever there is a serious oversupply of condo´s in Singapore. Nothing will change that for the next 2 years.
I have no comments on your son. None of my concern anyway. Not sure why he has a father like you though. :eek:
Secondly, please don't put words into my mouth because I have repeated don't know how many times that "I didn't ask people to Buy property now (nor ask them NOT to buy)". You are the one asking people not to buy and giving all sort of reasons which obviously also comes from news and research reports. Don't know why you consider yourselves to have such 'good integrity' in insisting that I asked people to buy property now (contrary to facts)?:scared-2:
If I am going to believe in the private bankers, I must have a wire 'short' in the head! These people tried to persuade me to buy structured deposits previously and got scrutinized by me upside down. Obviously, I didn't buy and the rest is history (so many people lost so much money on these). Now they (& you) are trying to pester GOLD? Free advice? Forget it man! These 'free advice' is going to cost many more people a lot of their money. :scared-1: Many of the retail investors are going to do better without these private bankers' 'free advice'! :rolleyes:
Unless you ask admin to delete all your 100-over posts, readers can easily track all your posts and infer if you are advocating buying properties now or not. So I do not need to put words in your mouth. Your posts and arguments reveal your intentions all the time. I hope you are not blinded even by your own intentions and thus couldnt see your own intentions.
Anyway, no amt of your posting is going to prevent the sliding of property prices. That, a lot of us are absolutely sure. No need super-natural power. Just common sense.
What you have mentioned are known news and they are lagging information. They are useless to investors. What matter to all investors & the Most important thing is the future: If they buy now, will they make/loss money in 5 years time and by how much? Can you tell us how much the price will drop in next 12 months? Can you tell us how much the property will go up/down in 5 years time? I bet nobody will know these answers (unless he is GOD). May be you can be more constructive by presenting a more balanced views by disserting and digesting the information rather than just regurgitating the bad news on property which is just telling us what we already knew?
See that is the problem, someone who bets on the future is a speculator. Some one who deals with today the present is an investor (value investor). If I buy property than I expect atleast annual of 4% return on my investment after
all costs. Capital appreciation not included. Anything below that and property is not interesting, a waste of money.
Show me the properties in Singapore that I can buy at 2 million, and rent out instantly at 8000$ to get my net 4% per annum.
Units which rent out for 8000$ today are asking around 2.8million. That means you get 3.4% ROI, however you have not decucted agent fees, condo fees, taxes, depreciation of the actual unit due to age etc.. So your real return is between 2-2.5%. (this is witout morgage! and considering inflation)
Honestly that sucks. You might as well go for REIT, or even bonds, atleast you can liquidate at any time. If you are hoping for double digit gains in property that means you are hoping for another bubble.
That is why property is overpriced, and has atleast 20-30% to drop, provided rentals dont keep going down, otherwise you can expect an even greater drop in prices.
What you have mentioned are known news and they are lagging information. They are useless to investors. What matter to all investors & the Most important thing is the future: If they buy now, will they make/loss money in 5 years time and by how much? Can you tell us how much the price will drop in next 12 months? Can you tell us how much the property will go up/down in 5 years time? I bet nobody will know these answers (unless he is GOD). May be you can be more constructive by presenting a more balanced views by disserting and digesting the information rather than just regurgitating the bad news on property which is just telling us what we already knew?
Initially i thought you only lack financial knowledge. Now I realised you also lack economic knowledge and basic english comprehension.
Those were not lagging information but future economic forecast. Certainly useful information to investors but probably useless to someone who do not knowhow to interpret such data and thought it useless.
Haven't been here for a while, things still look very much the same...
i seek second opinions on the following...
Condos near the Somerset MRT
1. recent sell out project Illuminair - Devonshire @ around $1700 - $1800psf, fair value for that area? Looking at Suites at Central maybe around $1500psf asking now, fair value?
2. One Oxley rise - asking maybe around $1400 - $1700psf, fair value now or expected to go lower by end of year, what's your take?
3. Visioncrest (Douby Ghuat MRT) - $1500-$1700psf... fair value?
There are small 1 bedroom units in these developments above, price range is around the 1 million region, my take is that properties in the 1 mil region (in such prime location) will not go too far down in terms of psf coz of the relatively smaller quantum so are able to hold at a resonably high psf...say around $1300-$1400psf at worst in this crisis... agree?
Please share your thoughts...thanks
The prices are sure to drop the next 12 months because, of macro-economic conditions. "The global economy is set to decline by 1.3% in 2009, in the first global recession since World War II, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) says."
Read this:
bbc article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8011907.stm)
Singapore cannot escape macro-economic realities. Real GDP is expected to decline by -10% in 2009. (page 82, IMF report (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2009/01/pdf/text.pdf))
So lets recap.
- 10% Real GDP decrease
- More lay-offs of high income jobs by multinationals
- higher unemployement
- Thousands of units on market currently fighting for rental!
- Thousands of units coming to market in next 2 years
- DPS financed units, yet to TOP.
- As an investment current property prices are too high, because the "real" ROI is only around 2%. Way too low, for any value investor!
- Property (condo) in Singapore since 2004 on bull run, outrunning GDP growth, which means people have overpaid.
- before property recovers, economy recovers. Well wait the next 6 months until you hear the horror stories (banking may be through theirs, but other industries are yet to follow)
- lets wait a year or two for interest rate to reach normal levels 3-4%. Than we will see how people will handle their morgage payments.
So tell me why should property not come down? On average property is still too expensive. There might be a few exceptions to the rule. How ever there is a serious oversupply of condo´s in Singapore. Nothing will change that for the next 2 years.
thanks for sharing. its true no one can predict the future but its also silly to try to catch a falling knife like what teddybear is advocating. asking those with only 8K/mth combined household income to buy million dollar properties.
even if prices do not plunge, it won't shoot up for sure. against this backdrop of the world economy, he's still trying to convince folks to buy property at high prices :doh: the funny thing is he's going round calling all those analysts and economists who do not subscribe to his buy buy buy calls as gods :doh:
Haven't been here for a while, things still look very much the same...
i seek second opinions on the following...
Condos near the Somerset MRT
1. recent sell out project Illuminair - Devonshire @ around $1700 - $1800psf, fair value for that area? Looking at Suites at Central maybe around $1500psf asking now, fair value?
2. One Oxley rise - asking maybe around $1400 - $1700psf, fair value now or expected to go lower by end of year, what's your take?
3. Visioncrest (Douby Ghuat MRT) - $1500-$1700psf... fair value?
There are small 1 bedroom units in these developments above, price range is around the 1 million region, my take is that properties in the 1 mil region (in such prime location) will not go too far down in terms of psf coz of the relatively smaller quantum so are able to hold at a resonably high psf...say around $1300-$1400psf at worst in this crisis... agree?
Please share your thoughts...thanks
just fyi...recently top suites@central around $1450-$1500 for some units but their units are bigger.
OK, rich man, I am just "too poor to walk into the BMW showroom" (if this makes you happier).
Anyway, I really don't understand why anybody would want to buy an "Ah Beng" car such as BMW which is not value-for-money at such "carrothead" price (even after knowing the so-called "real-price" which is cheaper than the standard pricelist) unless he is so "Ah Beng"! Ha ha! :samurai-killa:
Oh, by the way, $131k already so cheap for branded cars and you are telling me that it is just the standard pricelist? Wah, the cheaper "real-price" must be really cheap! After knowing this, this really confirm many people's impression that the BMW 320i although branded as luxury car but is really an "Ah Beng" car and it is for those who want to show that "I don't have too much money but I still want to show off and this is the limit I can show off". Ha ha! Funny clown! Really makes people laugh! We are really entertained here! :tongue2:
this is hilarious ;) now that you have been caughtfor posting as if you really knew the price of the bmw 320, you resorted to name calling and has absolutely no shame at all :rolleyes:
performance motors list prices have always been that way. goes to show that you have been talking from your place where the sun don't shine :) you have no idea at all how much cheaper all cars have become over the years.
oh well, another record of another lie of teddybear being exposed.
just fyi...recently top suites@central around $1450-$1500 for some units but their units are bigger.
well, from the internet even at $1400psf for a 818 sqft unit.
Suites @ central has good facilities with nice layout, very compfortable and well thought designs. i think it has the best value in Devonshire area.
However, the picture perfect views from the 1 bedders (currently orchard view) will be partially blocked by Illuminaire. Still the Suites longer term value will be there.
Ever since the Illuminaire launch...no more $1400psf... rental there i tink also tough coz of upcoming constructions
well, from the internet even at $1400psf for a 818 sqft unit.
Suites @ central has good facilities with nice layout, very compfortable and well thought designs. i think it has the best value in Devonshire area.
However, the picture perfect views from the 1 bedders (currently orchard view) will be partially blocked by Illuminaire. Still the Suites longer term value will be there.
Ever since the Illuminaire launch...no more $1400psf... rental there i tink also tough coz of upcoming constructions
Which posting u saw for 818sg @ 1.4k psf? I saw the 1k sq ft 2rms and to be frank was quite disappointed.. the 2nd rm seems too small and the private lobby is freaking large plus with planter there somemore wtf...
What you have mentioned are known news and they are lagging information. They are useless to investors. What matter to all investors & the Most important thing is the future: If they buy now, will they make/loss money in 5 years time and by how much? Can you tell us how much the price will drop in next 12 months? Can you tell us how much the property will go up/down in 5 years time? I bet nobody will know these answers (unless he is GOD). May be you can be more constructive by presenting a more balanced views by disserting and digesting the information rather than just regurgitating the bad news on property which is just telling us what we already knew?
I have same oppinion with you. Current price always reflect with all known news and factors already.
Recently many new developments have had good results with their sales so far, I also doubt why people keep insisting on price will go down.
It is also likely that giving uncertain info to people in this forum and misleading them to miss the chance to grab the house in good timing.
Must remember that more people insisting their thought without rational data and criticizing and doing personal attack, the more closer to THE TIME WHICH PROPERTY PRICE REVERT TO BACK.
The history tells this. :2cents:
Which posting u saw for 818sg @ 1.4k psf? I saw the 1k sq ft 2rms and to be frank was quite disappointed.. the 2nd rm seems too small and the private lobby is freaking large plus with planter there somemore wtf...
well, frankly these days... it seems like a default ...those big planters in new developments, i guess its part of building regulation now... though yes agree, why such a big planter. However, the planter can also be converted into a balcony of sorts, for rental, tht's a plus...
$1.4kpsf was fr URA website. So what kind of asking are we looking at now for tht project...
I have same oppinion with you. Current price always reflect with all known news and factors already.
Recently many new developments have had good results with their sales so far, I also doubt why people keep insisting on price will go down.
It is also likely that giving uncertain info to people in this forum and misleading them to miss the chance to grab the house in good timing.
Must remember that more people insisting their thought without rational data and criticizing and doing personal attack, the more closer to THE TIME WHICH PROPERTY PRICE REVERT TO BACK.
The history tells this. :2cents:
hmm, welcome new member. just to make it clear, i am sure you are aware of this. NONE of what anyone of us here say or do will influence the property price. there i said, unless you are the son or CEO of one of the developers and are influenced by the posts here :rolleyes: :cheers1:
we are just exchanging and sharing opinions. however, there is always such a thing as common sense and some insiders know a lot more than us. if the economies can be easily talked up, all the world leaders would have done that.
Neither the son or the ceo of a big developer can determine the price....
Price is determined by market or invisible hand
hmm, welcome new member. just to make it clear, i am sure you are aware of this. NONE of what anyone of us here say or do will influence the property price. there i said, unless you are the son or CEO of one of the developers and are influenced by the posts here :rolleyes: :cheers1:
we are just exchanging and sharing opinions. however, there is always such a thing as common sense and some insiders know a lot more than us. if the economies can be easily talked up, all the world leaders would have done that.
Since you claimed that I had 100-over postings telling people to buy property now, it shouldn't be a problem for your to quote a few of these postings that I explicitly ask people to buy property now right? Show the proof! Don't make such unsubstantiated comments! If you can't proof it, this just show you are a LIAR and you are the ones putting words into my mouth.
Are you sure of your statement: "Anyway, no amt of your posting is going to prevent the sliding of property prices. That, a lot of us are absolutely sure."?
I think quite a number of people who can afford to buy property now do not seem to be sharing your view. If a lot of people are so sure property sure drop, then they won't be buying properties for the past few months up to now! Luckily many people have a brain of their own and not so stupid to listen to all those doom-sayers (who are believed to be hoping to buy property cheap cheap and hence they want to scared all buyers away and hoping that property price will crash)! People bought Illumaire at about S$1800-2000 psf (and all units already sold out)! People bought Alexis at about $1300 psf (all sold out again). People are buying RV Suites at about $1300 psf! People are buying The Arte at about $900 psf! In buying now, these people must have believed that they will be able to make very good profits within 5 years. They have Li Ka Shing and Warren Buffett at their side as both gurus openly stated that it is time to start investing! Both men are gurus and they always stick with their investment calls (and putting their money where their mouth are)! Who are you and those so-called forecasters who keep changing their forecasts all the time (without betting a single penny of their money)? Ha ha! Who people should follow is obvious! :tongue3:
Unless you ask admin to delete all your 100-over posts, readers can easily track all your posts and infer if you are advocating buying properties now or not. So I do not need to put words in your mouth. Your posts and arguments reveal your intentions all the time. I hope you are not blinded even by your own intentions and thus couldnt see your own intentions.
Anyway, no amt of your posting is going to prevent the sliding of property prices. That, a lot of us are absolutely sure. No need super-natural power. Just common sense.
Seems like what you mentioned should apply to yourselves instead. So what if these are future economic forecasts? Who make these forecasts? Why they keep changing their forecasts every quarter? Can they be trusted? I have also seen many other forecasts where the analysts / fund managers / insiders are bullish on properties and they said if buy properties now and can hold, most likely can make very good profits within next few years! So who to believe? :p
Initially i thought you only lack financial knowledge. Now I realised you also lack economic knowledge and basic english comprehension.
Those were not lagging information but future economic forecast. Certainly useful information to investors but probably useless to someone who do not knowhow to interpret such data and thought it useless.
Don't try to beat around the bush and diverge from the issues debated after you have been exposed to be faked poser as though you can predict the future price of property! We don't need to predict the price of a BMW320 - sure go down because it is becoming more and more of an Ah Beng's car! Must keep it cheap while branding it as luxury so that those Ah Beng who has only so much money but still want to be seen driving a 'luxury' car can show that they only have so much to show off. :banghead:
this is hilarious ;) now that you have been caughtfor posting as if you really knew the price of the bmw 320, you resorted to name calling and has absolutely no shame at all :rolleyes:
performance motors list prices have always been that way. goes to show that you have been talking from your place where the sun don't shine :) you have no idea at all how much cheaper all cars have become over the years.
oh well, another record of another lie of teddybear being exposed.
Neither the son or the ceo of a big developer can determine the price....
Price is determined by market or invisible hand
they can determine the price of their own developments :D
anyway, yeah, its always market forces at work but always those with inside information is always one or several steps ahead of us.
Don't try to beat around the bush and diverge from the issues debated after you have been exposed to be faked poser as though you can predict the future price of property! We don't need to predict the price of a BMW320 - sure go down because it is becoming more and more of an Ah Beng's car! Must keep it cheap while branding it as luxury so that those Ah Beng who has only so much money but still want to be seen driving a 'luxury' car can show that they only have so much to show off. :banghead:
lol, more lies from teddybear. from his confident posting of the WRONG current price of bmw320, he has twisted it to become predicting the price of bmw320 :D
since this teddybear had been urging folks to buy because prices are so cheap that many tom dick and harry can easily afford million dollar homes, all the data published by the authorities had shown major price drops :cheers1:
still sore about being proven a liar in the bmw saga? lol, i may get another one when the new batch is here in june :D ....and yeah, still paying cash ;)
See that is the problem, someone who bets on the future is a speculator. Some one who deals with today the present is an investor (value investor). If I buy property than I expect atleast annual of 4% return on my investment after
all costs. Capital appreciation not included. Anything below that and property is not interesting, a waste of money.
Seems like you have never really invested before. So naive. People buy shares when cheap and sell when expensive. Same for properties. You think property's yield can remain high for long if the price is cheap?
Show me the properties in Singapore that I can buy at 2 million, and rent out instantly at 8000$ to get my net 4% per annum.
This is for you to go and find out. There are indeed bargains out there. Early birds get the worms (Ops)! The toad living in the well croacking that his world is only as big as the well will never get the delicious flies outside of the well.
Units which rent out for 8000$ today are asking around 2.8million. That means you get 3.4% ROI, however you have not decucted agent fees, condo fees, taxes, depreciation of the actual unit due to age etc.. So your real return is between 2-2.5%. (this is witout morgage! and considering inflation)
Honestly that sucks. You might as well go for REIT, or even bonds, atleast you can liquidate at any time. If you are hoping for double digit gains in property that means you are hoping for another bubble.
Yap, since property is not for you and you don't know how to find bargain out there, you should buy what you think is worth it, such as REIT and bonds as you mentioned.
That is why property is overpriced, and has atleast 20-30% to drop, provided rentals dont keep going down, otherwise you can expect an even greater drop in prices.
You are trying to act like GOD as though you know the future price of property will sure drop and hence it is overpriced now? Why you so sure? Talk is free. At least one of our forumer here has the balls to put his dick on the chop if price didn't falls below $800 psf for Cosmopolitan. You don't even have the balls (or may be you have none)?
Seems like what you mentioned should apply to yourselves instead. So what if these are future economic forecasts? Who make these forecasts? Why they keep changing their forecasts every quarter? Can they be trusted? I have also seen many other forecasts where the analysts / fund managers / insiders are bullish on properties and they said if buy properties now and can hold, most likely can make very good profits within next few years! So who to believe? :p
even if any of their forecasts is shit, no one can be worst than yours :rolleyes: also cannot differentiate if any info he saw was influenced by others' hidden agenda.
claiming to be much better than everyone else. what a moron ;)
more rubbish from teddybear
you really must be shitting in your pants now knowing property prices will drop ;) :cheers1: well, being abusive and acting or really being retarded will not be of help to you :rolleyes:
Really Ah Beng! Showing off that he can only buy another BMW? Many of those really rich are keeping quiet! This really shows the "Ah Beng" colour Ha ha! Need I say more? :doh:
All the URA data show price drop? Those are lagging information lah! Many of the really rich still buying properties! They are not afraid that the price will drop further. They will buy more properties. Not like you, keep complaining properties so expensive and asking people not to buy so that you can buy cheap cheap? Fat hope! By the way, latest analyst's report (see below) already showing that property market is firming up. Those in the loop will always get first hand information while those ignorant only looks at the URA data.
You don't even have the money to buy 1 property first and then buy another just like you mentioned you buying your BMW? (or that is a Poser too? :scared-1:)
SINGAPORE
Property – Residential
OVERWEIGHT
UOB KayHian - Monday, April 27, 2009
Property – Residential
Sales volume picks up
The first-quarter sales volume is the best quarterly showing since 3Q08.
Continued sales momentum would help in base formation and improvement
in the homebuying sentiment, leading to a more sustainable recovery.
Sector Events
Urban Redevelopment Authority’s (URA) quarterly statistics for 1Q09 indicate
that private residential prices declined 14.1% qoq to 139.9 points, steeper
than the flash estimate of a 13.8% decrease released earlier. Private home
prices are 22.9% below the 2Q96 peak levels. The Housing and
Development Board’s (HDB) price index declined 0.8% qoq (flash estimate:
0.6% qoq) after nine quarters of growth to 138.6 points. Public housing
prices are still 1% above the 4Q96 peak levels. As highlighted earlier, the
price index is catching up with the actual price decline levels as the price
index has a laggard effect due to the normalisation procedure used. We
estimate the actual price decline is a lot steeper at 30-40% from the end-07
levels compared with the reported full-year decline of 21.2% from the peak.
Sector Impact
? Buyers back in the market. Sales volumes in the primary market leapt
nearly sixfold to 2,596 units mostly due to sales in the mass market and
mid-tier segments and represent nearly 60% of the full-year developer
sales recorded last year. Transactions in the secondary market also
noted a 10.7% qoq increase. The data points suggest base formation for
developer sales in the mass market and mid-tier segments at the early-06
resale price levels. Continued sales momentum would support base
formation and help in improving homebuying sentiment, leading to a more
sustainable recovery.
? Further deferment of supply should support market. Supply in the
pipeline saw further deferments during the quarter, with a reduction in the
total number of units in the pipeline. While the total number of home
completions expected in 2009 has increased 6.2%, taking the 2,230
completed units in the first quarter into account, the number of units due
for completion in 2010 has been cut by 15% to 5,952 units. Expected
completions for 2010-13 have all been adjusted downwards, deferred to
beyond 2013.
? Supply shortage of public housing and increased public rental
housing demand supportive of private mass market. Public housing
prices have been stable compared with other segments, supported by
stable rental levels. While further moderation in the public housing rental
levels is expected due to the deterioration in the macroeconomic outlook,
we believe public housing rental levels will remain fairly stable compared
with other housing segments because of the increase in demand for
affordable rental housing as more people defer their buying decisions. At
the same time, the supply situation in the HDB segment remains tight
with the supply of a mere 5,400 units p.a. in the last five years, well below
the 15-year long-term average of 19,000 units p.a. The stable public
housing market will eventually lend support to the private mass market
segment.
Valuation/Recommendation
Based on URA’s latest quarterly statistics, the physical market is moving
towards price points that are drawing buyers back, in our view. The
moderation of projects in the pipeline should serve to support the market
further. As such, we continue to see value in the property sector with City
Developments and Allgreen being the key beneficiaries of the increased sales
momentum and the improved homebuying sentiment in the mass market and
mid-tier segments.
lol, more lies from teddybear. from his confident posting of the WRONG current price of bmw320, he has twisted it to become predicting the price of bmw320 :D
since this teddybear had been urging folks to buy because prices are so cheap that many tom dick and harry can easily afford million dollar homes, all the data published by the authorities had shown major price drops :cheers1:
still sore about being proven a liar in the bmw saga? lol, i may get another one when the new batch is here in june :D ....and yeah, still paying cash ;)
Ah Beng got offended after being on the offensive? Ha ha ha! Moron Moron Moron? :tongue3:
even if any of their forecasts is shit, no one can be worst than yours :rolleyes: also cannot differentiate if any info he saw was influenced by others' hidden agenda.
claiming to be much better than everyone else. what a moron ;)
La la la poo poo, you cannot buy property cheap cheap! :tongue3:
Don't have money don't go around showing off. You can buy 'BMW' but too bad cannot buy property. Go buy more BMWs lah! Don't keep cow pay cow bull about property prices being too expensive. You cannot afford cow pay cow bull for what? :tsk-tsk:
you really must be shitting in your pants now knowing property prices will drop ;) :cheers1: well, being abusive and acting or really being retarded will not be of help to you :rolleyes:
Teddybear, when you learn how to calculate ROI, we will maybe talk again. Until than I wish you good fortune, with your life and investments. May you take up as many morgages as you can, sweep up those "good bargains" that only you can see, and become the property king of Singapore.
Have a nice day.
more rubbish and lies from teddybear
[/I]
lol, the info about bmw is just to make you drool. even the ah beng car as you called it is still way above you ;) why should i buy 2 properties now since i know it will drop further. i am unlike you and have a home to stay in while i wait :D also unlike you in that you kept asking others to buy since last month and yet you have not bought any :spliff: as for money for property investment, go read my posts and find out how much cash i have prepared :cool: in case you are worried, the amount is still the same after paying cash for cars :D
is that report what you refer to as your saviour for price increases? ;) if that is what you are banking on, good luck to you :rolleyes:
You can't reply faster? You can't type is it? Ah Beng brain and hand too slow is it? YAWN! Can't wait already. Sooooo LONGggggg. Going to sleep now. :tongue2:
La la la poo poo, you cannot buy property cheap cheap! :tongue3:
Don't have money don't go around showing off. You can buy 'BMW' but too bad cannot buy property. Go buy more BMWs lah! Don't keep cow pay cow bull about property prices being too expensive. You cannot afford cow pay cow bull for what? :tsk-tsk:
Originally Posted by cartman
you really must be shitting in your pants now knowing property prices will drop ;) :cheers1: well, being abusive and acting or really being retarded will not be of help to you :rolleyes:
You can't reply faster? You can't type is it? Ah Beng brain and hand too slow is it? YAWN! Can't wait already. Sooooo LONGggggg. Going to sleep now. :tongue2:
okay, just want to wish you well.
when the bust comes, hope we don't see your picture in the back pages of the papers ;) :D
Hey Teddybear,
See what I said back in Apr, invest in Gold. I wonder how many people who bought a property back in Apr/ May is able to flip it at a profit matching the gains in Gold px without leverage In fact, for the period from Apr till now, all my investments like equities, AUD and Gold all appreciated many times more than my 3 properties.
My reply to you previously:
"Are you BLIND? Did I not make myself very clear in this forum that "I didn't ask people to BUY or SELL"? Since I didn't, I don't understand what you are trying to drive at. Another idiotic LOSER here just like your good buddy cartman who like to presume and then make all sort of assumptions & guesses. :hell-hath-no-fury:"
Presumptions, Presumptions, Presumptions! Now we are seeing another "GOD"-like character like cartman! How do you know people will be commiting financial suicide if they buy now? May be people who buy now will be making lots of money 3-5 years down the road? (though I am not telling people to BUY now because I have no such capability to foresee future and it is best left to individual to decide). So, who know whether it is the right time to BUY or SELL now? If you say BUYING now is financial suicide and that the property is over-priced now and the property price will certainly decline vs infation (as you mentioned: "Definitely not buying over-price properties. The decline in property prices will certainly outpace inflation"), you are doing on the presumption that even 3-5 years down the road property price will not recover higher than now. NOW, who can confidently say such thing except "GOD"? So, this just exposed another LOSER and a liar if he can say all this with confidence! :tongue3:
Now worst still, you are advocating people to buy PHYSICAL GOLD? Is GOLD a real hedge against inflation? My Gosh! People who buy private property now can still live in and enjoy the facilities while waiting for it to appreciate. People who buy physical gold which does not earn interest and still have to incur handling charges etc may be they can eat some GOLD while waiting for the price to go up so that they can sell later? (because nobody knows whether GOLD will go up or go down in future!). You are advocating to consider buying GOLD meaning you are telling people GOLD will go up in FUTURE? :eek: I better let the others think about these and decide for themselves.
proud owner
09-11-09, 23:31
Hey Teddybear,
See what I said back in Apr, invest in Gold. I wonder how many people who bought a property back in Apr/ May is able to flip it at a profit matching the gains in Gold px without leverage In fact, for the period from Apr till now, all my investments like equities, AUD and Gold all appreciated many times more than my 3 properties.
i bought gold in early 2000 at 240 us/oz
i also encouraged at least 5 of my close friends to buy ..usd CPF to buy ..
only 1 followed ..
i bought gold in early 2000 at 240 us/oz
i also encouraged at least 5 of my close friends to buy ..usd CPF to buy ..
only 1 followed ..
How do you hold your gold? Is it physical gold, gold certificate or gold account?
Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of April 2009
Project Name ................. Locality . Units Sold To Date . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
Illuminaire On Devonshire . CCR ........ 72 ............................ 72 .............................. 1,724 ............. 1,703 ............ 1,622
April seems so long ago.
proud owner
10-11-09, 20:28
How do you hold your gold? Is it physical gold, gold certificate or gold account?
open a gold account .. like a passbook ... no need to take physical delivery .. safer ... unless you ask them to mould it like a toberone chocolate and hide in fridge eheh
open a gold account .. like a passbook ... no need to take physical delivery .. safer ... unless you ask them to mould it like a toberone chocolate and hide in fridge eheh
Is it UOB?
They charge 0.25% per annum. :doh:
In 100 years, 25% of the gold will be gone! :simmering:
How much is the return of gold from Apr till now? Instead of saying how many people flipping property can match gains in gold price without leverage, why not compare "with leverage"? Ha ha! Simple. How you leverage at low borrowing rate and large sum of $$$ with gold? No way!
Let me quote just an example of exemplary returns with property (many other examples of exemplary returns out there):
If a person bought Ardmore II 2024 sf unit in Apr at $1600 psf (real transaction) by justing putting down 20% and borrow the rest at 1.9% interest pa, he could have sold it at $2650 psf recently (real transaction as well). As such, his profit is $2.125m from just putting down about $648k ! His return is 328.1% with respect to $648k ! Tell me, has gold gone up by >328.1% from Apr till now? We have not even considered the rental income yet (but I will just write that off with equivalent interest charges although rental yield is higher than interest charges). Also, I am definitely sure that gold will go back to square one again in next 10 years (i.e. fall back to below US$500 an ounce). Gold is just good for speculations, not long-term investment. Could you receive rental income or live in it for gold (just like property)? Rather, invest in gold and you get hit with all sort of administrative and management charges annually! Lower returns again! Long-term, it is a depreciating assets because of all these charges.
Hey Teddybear,
See what I said back in Apr, invest in Gold. I wonder how many people who bought a property back in Apr/ May is able to flip it at a profit matching the gains in Gold px without leverage In fact, for the period from Apr till now, all my investments like equities, AUD and Gold all appreciated many times more than my 3 properties.
proud owner
10-11-09, 23:09
How much is the return of gold from Apr till now? Instead of saying how many people flipping property can match gains in gold price without leverage, why not compare "with leverage"? Ha ha! Simple. How you leverage at low borrowing rate and large sum of $$$ with gold? No way!
Let me quote just an example of exemplary returns with property (many other examples of exemplary returns out there):
If a person bought Ardmore II 2024 sf unit in Apr at $1600 psf (real transaction) by justing putting down 20% and borrow the rest at 1.9% interest pa, he could have sold it at $2650 psf recently (real transaction as well). As such, his profit is $2.125m from just putting down about $648k ! His return is 328.1% with respect to $648k ! Tell me, has gold gone up by >328.1% from Apr till now? We have not even considered the rental income yet (but I will just write that off with equivalent interest charges although rental yield is higher than interest charges). Also, I am definitely sure that gold will go back to square one again in next 10 years (i.e. fall back to below US$500 an ounce). Gold is just good for speculations, not long-term investment. Could you receive rental income or live in it for gold (just like property)? Rather, invest in gold and you get hit with all sort of administrative and management charges annually! Lower returns again! Long-term, it is a depreciating assets because of all these charges.
sounds good
but honestly ..that is not typical ...
i saw the caveat too at 2650 psf but at the same time theres another unit for sale lower at 2400 ish psf ..
meanwhile from apr to now .. how much are you serivicng the loan ? ARD II not TOP yet .. no rental income also
and its not liq like gold ..
if wrong can always sell back
if ARD II is wrong sell to who ?
to begin with ..why you think that guy sold at 1600 psf in apr in the first place ?
That guy no holding power mah. Buy property first make sure can tong and strike when such good deal occurs. :D
Interest at 1.9% is damn low already. Furthermore if not TOP means loan not fully drawn down so interest charges even lower.
sounds good
but honestly ..that is not typical ...
i saw the caveat too at 2650 psf but at the same time theres another unit for sale lower at 2400 ish psf ..
meanwhile from apr to now .. how much are you serivicng the loan ? ARD II not TOP yet .. no rental income also
and its not liq like gold ..
if wrong can always sell back
if ARD II is wrong sell to who ?
to begin with ..why you think that guy sold at 1600 psf in apr in the first place ?
proud owner
10-11-09, 23:25
That guy no holding power mah. Buy property first make sure can tong and strike when such good deal occurs. :D
Interest at 1.9% is damn low already. Furthermore if not TOP means loan not fully drawn down so interest charges even lower.
thats another reason why now not DPS ..average buyer can only afford mid tier ..
which is why govt abit worried... although they buy what they can 'hold' but if any bad news they will be the group that will cut loss ..
all investment has its risk .. hold power is one thing ..guts is another ..
do home work and not act on 'hearsay' ... i believe alot here do homework ..
its upgraders i worry .. they are a big base group .. if cannot hold ,,they cut ..will also pull mkt down
teddy and I have quarrelled before, but much as I hate to admit, he was goddamn right in April about property prices heading up. the rest of you... just suck thumb lah.
bargain hunter
11-11-09, 08:13
some facts: the guy who sold at 1600psf, Ardmore II, #24-04, lost more than 30% on it. Looks like he really needed to get out, whatever the price. the guy who bought from him on 1 Apr sold on 27 Apr for only 1799psf...where got hold until 2650? LOL. :D
sounds good
but honestly ..that is not typical ...
i saw the caveat too at 2650 psf but at the same time theres another unit for sale lower at 2400 ish psf ..
meanwhile from apr to now .. how much are you serivicng the loan ? ARD II not TOP yet .. no rental income also
and its not liq like gold ..
if wrong can always sell back
if ARD II is wrong sell to who ?
to begin with ..why you think that guy sold at 1600 psf in apr in the first place ?
Property_Owner
11-11-09, 10:02
some facts: the guy who sold at 1600psf, Ardmore II, #24-04, lost more than 30% on it. Looks like he really needed to get out, whatever the price. the guy who bought from him on 1 Apr sold on 27 Apr for only 1799psf...where got hold until 2650? LOL. :D
remember the Sail unit which I mentioned before?
bargain hunter
11-11-09, 10:21
yup, actually its not so easy to compare whether one can make more on property or other asset classes. the time frame is usually different and one should go in prepared for a longer term view.
remember the Sail unit which I mentioned before?
I am just giving real transacted price but hypothetical in
assuming they are same unit. May be this guy who bough $1799 psf holding out now for $5000 psf? :p
some facts: the guy who sold at 1600psf, Ardmore II, #24-04, lost more than 30% on it. Looks like he really needed to get out, whatever the price. the guy who bought from him on 1 Apr sold on 27 Apr for only 1799psf...where got hold until 2650? LOL. :D
teddy and I have quarrelled before, but much as I hate to admit, he was goddamn right in April about property prices heading up. the rest of you... just suck thumb lah.
Back in Apr, I deliberately stayed away from properties but plow my $ in many different instruments. All of it made many times more than if I had bought a property in Apr. And mind you, I did not even leverage completely but only for small gamble in leveraged indexes. Gold returns the least, but its a hedge, not so much for capital gains.
And I still maintain that there are many other investments out there that can yield better returns than Singapore properties. Back in Apr, I mentioned gold, but only as a counter arguement that property is a good inflation hedge but some smart teddy alec think I'm nuts, and he still thinks so, haha, but it doesn't matter, if fools choose to invest unwisely, its their lost, not mine. Property MIGHT be a good inflation hedge but only if you do not borrow. When mortagage interests start rising, which MAS just spoke about, some 6-9 mths after I mentioned it earlier on, and when there are not enough tenants to rent to, lets see whether the current property bulls are still around to blow their trumpet.
How much is the return of gold from Apr till now? Instead of saying how many people flipping property can match gains in gold price without leverage, why not compare "with leverage"? Ha ha! Simple. How you leverage at low borrowing rate and large sum of $$$ with gold? No way!
Let me quote just an example of exemplary returns with property (many other examples of exemplary returns out there):
If a person bought Ardmore II 2024 sf unit in Apr at $1600 psf (real transaction) by justing putting down 20% and borrow the rest at 1.9% interest pa, he could have sold it at $2650 psf recently (real transaction as well). As such, his profit is $2.125m from just putting down about $648k ! His return is 328.1% with respect to $648k ! Tell me, has gold gone up by >328.1% from Apr till now? We have not even considered the rental income yet (but I will just write that off with equivalent interest charges although rental yield is higher than interest charges). Also, I am definitely sure that gold will go back to square one again in next 10 years (i.e. fall back to below US$500 an ounce). Gold is just good for speculations, not long-term investment. Could you receive rental income or live in it for gold (just like property)? Rather, invest in gold and you get hit with all sort of administrative and management charges annually! Lower returns again! Long-term, it is a depreciating assets because of all these charges.
Its so dangerous reading/ listening to all your rubbish. Gold is never about speculation, but a store of value. And your arguement that one can buy a property and receive rental, well, that only applies if you do not leverage, hence my comparison of buying Gold without borrowings. If you have to borrow to buy property, then you still need to pay installment and most likely even subsidise the tenant by topping up. That is just plain stupid, its like doing charity work.
let me guess, more likely than not, you are blowing for property prices to keep increasing because you have just bought one recently or you bought it high before and still under-water. So you hope to pass the hot potato to ignorant home buyers.
These arguements you put forth to justify buying a property, instead of other forms of investment are so lame that it can only come from crook sales agents or owners holding on to hot potatos.
Back in Apr 2009, you told forumers here to avoid properties because property bubble will burst and may even have deflation (blah blah blah...). You said: "I said there is a property bubble since property px has risen beyond real owners affordability.
The current correction in property price will come regardless whether there is recession or not for the simple fact it was a bubble waiting to burst. The global financial crisis and now global recession just happens to be the needle that prick the balloon.
Just to throw the discussion off-tangent a bit, actually in a few months time, the discussion above may even be moot because we could even be staring at an even more frightening monster, a deflation leading to a depression. ... "
This is just quoting 1 post because you made similar comments in many many posts. Then you ask forumers here to buy gold because buy properties is like "digging own grave" and buy gold sure make lots of money. Then you attacked me for hidden agenda for being bullish on properties etc etc.
Now is already Nov 2009. Since Apr 2009 when you keep insisting properties price sure drop like you are "God", properties prices have gone up in only 1 direction: that is UP UP UP.
Then you said you make lots of money from gold. I ask you to show the return of gold from Apr 2009 till now and then you now said your return in gold is the lowest among all your different instruments. I didn't say I am smart but you act like you really are. Ok, give you 1 more chance: show which instruments you invest that can give you >328% return from Apr till now? Forumers here have eyes to see and brain to think and judge. They will be the judges here. There is no point in empty talks and bull-shits.
Back in Apr, I deliberately stayed away from properties but plow my $ in many different instruments. All of it made many times more than if I had bought a property in Apr. And mind you, I did not even leverage completely but only for small gamble in leveraged indexes. Gold returns the least, but its a hedge, not so much for capital gains.
And I still maintain that there are many other investments out there that can yield better returns than Singapore properties. Back in Apr, I mentioned gold, but only as a counter arguement that property is a good inflation hedge but some smart teddy alec think I'm nuts, and he still thinks so, haha, but it doesn't matter, if fools choose to invest unwisely, its their lost, not mine. Property MIGHT be a good inflation hedge but only if you do not borrow. When mortagage interests start rising, which MAS just spoke about, some 6-9 mths after I mentioned it earlier on, and when there are not enough tenants to rent to, lets see whether the current property bulls are still around to blow their trumpet.
Sorry but I know its rude but this is precisely what I mean by talking through your ass. Look at your own post, `may'? `Why not?' Are you sure or are you hypothesing that the scenario will pan out? You said its `possible' in an earlier post. What's the probability? You are just sprouting rubbish that you do not even understand. So please save this kind of coffeeshop Theory of Economics with your fellow coffeeshop buddies.
Pls do not mistake normal inflation in a growing economy with the kind of hyperinflation that some bulls here used to justify property as a good hedge for inflation. And while you are at it, in fact salaries indeed did not rise in tandem with headline inflation. In fact real income decrease which is why I said there is a property bubble since property px has risen beyond real owners affordability.
The current correction in property price will come regardless whether there is recession or not for the simple fact it was a bubble waiting to burst. The global financial crisis and now global recession just happens to be the needle that prick the balloon.
Just to throw the discussion off-tangent a bit, actually in a few months time, the discussion above may even be moot because we could even be staring at an even more frightening monster, a deflation leading to a depression. And in a depression, lets just say 2/3 of the people in this forum will not even be surfing here anymore because they do not have money to pay their electricity bills. When that time come, I believe the only safe profession (monetary wise) are your police and soldiers. US Fed has already announced this last night.
So please stop the bullshit about inflation being a good enough reason to buy properties.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...mUo&refer=home (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a4KPs.0wymUo&refer=home)
Originally Posted by trump7
Before you point out whether people talks thought their xxx, pls see your theory first.
You said when inflation comes, people even don`t have money to feed themselves, but why you cannot think your salary will be raised according to degree of inflation???
Can`t you remember singapore had the kind of inflation 1-2 years ago?
At that time were there so many people who are suffering for starving??
All the market prices including house has been keeoing rising slowly according to inflation, and it is very sure that cannot compare the value of momey with 30 or 40 years ago.
Since this is quite abnormal that US issued so much dollors at once, and what I mean it may occur sudden and impactable inflation to us.
Why not it comes suddenly since sub-prime cricis came to us suddenly last Oct??
Once this kind of inflation comes, there will be big difference between people who only has cash and who has property or gold.
Those people has the big loan will be very much happy since value of loan will be dropped a lot!
Ok, assuming I talk rubbish and you didn't:
You said in Apr 2009 that properties prices sure drop and bubble sure burst. From then till now in Nov 2009, you keep insisting properties prices will drop but instead properties prices is UP UP UP.
So, who is talking rubbish many times over? :tongue3:
When we invest, we want max returns, regardless of leverage or not. The billionaires are billionaires because they leverage (but smartly). Which billionaires didn't leverage? If you don't leverage, then I am quite sure you return is going to be mediocre and limited.
Now you are accusing me as "crook sales agents or owners holding on to hot potatos" and trying to blow up property prices to pass hot potato to ignorant home buyers. Well, if this the case and I have been bullish about properties since Apr 2009, whoever "ignorant home buyers" who bought the "hot potato" from me must be laughing all the way to the bank with property prices going UP UP UP since then! :scared-1:
You keep emphasizing other forms of investments. Could you be more constructive to other forumers here by enlightening them what other good forms of investments there are and what returns can be had over Apr-Nov 2009 that is much much better than properties as you highlighted? Otherwise, it is just empty talks. As the saying goes, "Empty vessels make the loudest noise". :p
Its so dangerous reading/ listening to all your rubbish. Gold is never about speculation, but a store of value. And your arguement that one can buy a property and receive rental, well, that only applies if you do not leverage, hence my comparison of buying Gold without borrowings. If you have to borrow to buy property, then you still need to pay installment and most likely even subsidise the tenant by topping up. That is just plain stupid, its like doing charity work.
let me guess, more likely than not, you are blowing for property prices to keep increasing because you have just bought one recently or you bought it high before and still under-water. So you hope to pass the hot potato to ignorant home buyers.
These arguements you put forth to justify buying a property, instead of other forms of investment are so lame that it can only come from crook sales agents or owners holding on to hot potatos.
When we invest, we want max returns, regardless of leverage or not. The billionaires are billionaires because they leverage (but smartly). Which billionaires didn't leverage? If you don't leverage, then I am quite sure you return is going to be mediocre and limited.
For the average person, properties represents the most leveraged instrument of investment which provides the greatest peace of mind (provided you have "faith", which I shall elaborate later).
During the plunge after the Lehman crisis, my property portfolio went down by more than a million dollars. Even though I was sad, life went on as long as I could pay the installments. Now it has bounced back up again and even surpassed the pre-crisis level. :cheers1:
To get the same amount of exposure in other instruments, even if leverage is available, would be very scary. :scared-3:
Can you imagine buying $5 million dollars worth of shares using UOB share trading account's "Attractive financing margin of up to 65% for marginable stocks and shares".
This means you have to come up with 35% of $5 million or $1.75 million !!! :scared-4:
Who would normally have such a huge amount of cash in the bank?
Then when the market plunges (e.g. DBS shares plunged from $20 to $7 per share), your entire $1.75 million would be wiped out! Margin Call! Margin Call! Your account is ZERO. Margin Call! Margin Call!
Won't you feel very very sick in the stomach? :scared-3:
On the other hand, if there is no leveraging and the investment amount is small, with exposure of less than half-a-million, then the gains or losses will also be very small and it is simply a waste of time.
In contrast, losing $1.75 million in properties does not feel so bad because the banks usually won't disturb you unless the market value really falls very much below your outstanding loan.
As long as you can service your monthly installments promptly, they will be more accommodating compared to shares.
Furthermore, if you believe in my religion called "Propertism", and your "faith" is strong that in the long run, cash always devalues so property always appreciates, then you can have a better night's sleep compared to those who invest in other instruments of investment. :sleep:
Ok, assuming I talk rubbish and you didn't:
You said in Apr 2009 that properties prices sure drop and bubble sure burst. From then till now in Nov 2009, you keep insisting properties prices will drop but instead properties prices is UP UP UP.
So, who is talking rubbish many times over? :tongue3:
When we invest, we want max returns, regardless of leverage or not. The billionaires are billionaires because they leverage (but smartly). Which billionaires didn't leverage? If you don't leverage, then I am quite sure you return is going to be mediocre and limited.
Now you are accusing me as "crook sales agents or owners holding on to hot potatos" and trying to blow up property prices to pass hot potato to ignorant home buyers. Well, if this the case and I have been bullish about properties since Apr 2009, whoever "ignorant home buyers" who bought the "hot potato" from me must be laughing all the way to the bank with property prices going UP UP UP since then! :scared-1:
You keep emphasizing other forms of investments. Could you be more constructive to other forumers here by enlightening them what other good forms of investments there are and what returns can be had over Apr-Nov 2009 that is much much better than properties as you highlighted? Otherwise, it is just empty talks. As the saying goes, "Empty vessels make the loudest noise". :p
:spliff: Sorry, there is no free lunch in my books. I mentioned before, talk to your PB, and I assume you have access to that, if not too bad. I have hinted leveraged indexes as one of my investment instruments, so you can imagine how many times more returns I get than your quoted example of the Ardmore unit. I made enough to buy 2 units of Ardmore if I want to.
Point is, property when speculated, is harmful and unproductive for society. Want to speculate, choose other proper speculative instruments. If the whole society thinks property speculation is the fastest and quickest way to wealth accumulation, I greatly condemn it and discourage it. It only benefits the few, like other forumer who thinks now is the best time to buy AND sell in 6-9 mths. Ha! Property is now commodities trading? Futures trading on paper only?
And one more time, if you do not understand, my suggestion for Gold was to counter arguements that property is a good hedge against inflation. For investments, i will not consider Singapore properties just yet. Its too small and speculated by people like you. And since its been speculated, it will plunge easily too. If not because of govt printing $, trust me, you would be pissing in your pants now instead of being cocky here. But i have to admit because of the massive injection of printed $, i have also benefited greatly but with less risk than singapore properties but more rewards.
Ok, got your message: You have nothing to back up your statement that there is other investments that can earn more than 328% compared to the example I quoted for property (and you said you don't even need leverage to achieve that some more) and hence you cannot answer directly but need to beat around the bush. Never mind. I believe other forumers here can understand your message as well. :D
If you keep singing that properties prices will fall, may be you will be right one day (10 years later? :banghead:).
:spliff: Sorry, there is no free lunch in my books. I mentioned before, talk to your PB, and I assume you have access to that, if not too bad. I have hinted leveraged indexes as one of my investment instruments, so you can imagine how many times more returns I get than your quoted example of the Ardmore unit. I made enough to buy 2 units of Ardmore if I want to.
Point is, property when speculated, is harmful and unproductive for society. Want to speculate, choose other proper speculative instruments. If the whole society thinks property speculation is the fastest and quickest way to wealth accumulation, I greatly condemn it and discourage it. It only benefits the few, like other forumer who thinks now is the best time to buy AND sell in 6-9 mths. Ha! Property is now commodities trading? Futures trading on paper only?
And one more time, if you do not understand, my suggestion for Gold was to counter arguements that property is a good hedge against inflation. For investments, i will not consider Singapore properties just yet. Its too small and speculated by people like you. And since its been speculated, it will plunge easily too. If not because of govt printing $, trust me, you would be pissing in your pants now instead of being cocky here. But i have to admit because of the massive injection of printed $, i have also benefited greatly but with less risk than singapore properties but more rewards.
moneyspinner
13-11-09, 19:10
For the average person, properties represents the most leveraged instrument of investment which provides the greatest peace of mind (provided you have "faith", which I shall elaborate later).
During the plunge after the Lehman crisis, my property portfolio went down by more than a million dollars. Even though I was sad, life went on as long as I could pay the installments. Now it has bounced back up again and even surpassed the pre-crisis level. :cheers1:
To get the same amount of exposure in other instruments, even if leverage is available, would be very scary. :scared-3:
Can you imagine buying $5 million dollars worth of shares using UOB share trading account's "Attractive financing margin of up to 65% for marginable stocks and shares".
This means you have to come up with 35% of $5 million or $1.75 million !!! :scared-4:
Who would normally have such a huge amount of cash in the bank?
Then when the market plunges (e.g. DBS shares plunged from $20 to $7 per share), your entire $1.75 million would be wiped out! Margin Call! Margin Call! Your account is ZERO. Margin Call! Margin Call!
Won't you feel very very sick in the stomach? :scared-3:
On the other hand, if there is no leveraging and the investment amount is small, with exposure of less than half-a-million, then the gains or losses will also be very small and it is simply a waste of time.
In contrast, losing $1.75 million in properties does not feel so bad because the banks usually won't disturb you unless the market value really falls very much below your outstanding loan.
As long as you can service your monthly installments promptly, they will be more accommodating compared to shares.
Furthermore, if you believe in my religion called "Propertism", and your "faith" is strong that in the long run, cash always devalues so property always appreciates, then you can have a better night's sleep compared to those who invest in other instruments of investment. :sleep:
Precisely, that's why its always good to pick deferred payment scheme provided, of course, that the price of the property you purchase is not exorbitantly priced.
if value drops by too much for the bank's liking, come deferred payment date, the bank might tell you they are disbursing a lesser amount, so make sure you keep in touch with your banker.
moneyspinner
13-11-09, 19:32
if value drops by too much for the bank's liking, come deferred payment date, the bank might tell you they are disbursing a lesser amount, so make sure you keep in touch with your banker.
Thank you. Hence, go for it only when you see that the property market is on the way up and not the other way! When the market peaks, its hands off time.
This one also start to move already, got to know that a studio was transacted at 2188 psf last month.
will the prices continue to go up? Crystal ball pls.
State Council approves trial property tax
April 23, 2010: The government has given the go ahead to a trial property tax in four cities. While the details are still not clear, would-be home buyers may hold back
China’s State Council has signed off on a trial property tax in Beijing, Chongqing, Shenzhen and Shanghai in a long-awaited move aimed at slowing the rapid rise in property prices seen over the...
devilplate
03-05-10, 00:40
For the average person, properties represents the most leveraged instrument of investment which provides the greatest peace of mind (provided you have "faith", which I shall elaborate later).
During the plunge after the Lehman crisis, my property portfolio went down by more than a million dollars. Even though I was sad, life went on as long as I could pay the installments. Now it has bounced back up again and even surpassed the pre-crisis level. :cheers1:
To get the same amount of exposure in other instruments, even if leverage is available, would be very scary. :scared-3:
Can you imagine buying $5 million dollars worth of shares using UOB share trading account's "Attractive financing margin of up to 65% for marginable stocks and shares".
This means you have to come up with 35% of $5 million or $1.75 million !!! :scared-4:
Who would normally have such a huge amount of cash in the bank?
Then when the market plunges (e.g. DBS shares plunged from $20 to $7 per share), your entire $1.75 million would be wiped out! Margin Call! Margin Call! Your account is ZERO. Margin Call! Margin Call!
Won't you feel very very sick in the stomach? :scared-3:
On the other hand, if there is no leveraging and the investment amount is small, with exposure of less than half-a-million, then the gains or losses will also be very small and it is simply a waste of time.
In contrast, losing $1.75 million in properties does not feel so bad because the banks usually won't disturb you unless the market value really falls very much below your outstanding loan.
As long as you can service your monthly installments promptly, they will be more accommodating compared to shares.
Furthermore, if you believe in my religion called "Propertism", and your "faith" is strong that in the long run, cash always devalues so property always appreciates, then you can have a better night's sleep compared to those who invest in other instruments of investment. :sleep:
I have been reading some of ur posts...it certainly make sense...remember many top richies in the world r having 1000+ ppty internationally. Those top richies strongly believe in property wealth accumulation...and they r smart enough to buy during every dips.
To add, in SG, a ppty can never get 'delisted' except for those 99LH ppty tat has a 99yrs expiry date. Overall, ppty is generally safer den stocks if u play the game well.
However, u cannot 'short' ppty...hehe
Jonathan0503
11-08-11, 18:35
Just saw a report in BT relating to rental yield of prime projects.
The rental of illuminaire is impressive:
$6.80 to $10.20 psf for 441 to 721 sqft.
Assuming $10.20 is for 441 sf, rental would be close to $4.5K per month
propertyguru still av 3.4-3.8k for MMs there
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2011-08-11/primeproj11.jpg
phantom_opera
30-07-13, 13:56
record psf
1 JUL 2013 65 DEVONSHIRE ROAD #XX-XX 441 2,606psf 12 MAY 2009 1,718 391,608 1,511 10.6
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