View Full Version : I will buy rivergate and the sail
Baffles me too. They say it's part art, part science, part... not sure abt fish though.
regards
but not to launch price right ??
i really find it fishy ... i still believe if DTZ die die want to help Ferrel 'maintain' the price ..they can give RG 1200 psf valuation ..
meanwhile they can give others in the vicinity 1000-950 psf ...
but to have a property whose last transaction in feb 725 psf fall to 485 psf (launch price in 2006) ..then all prop in dist 9 10 11 will be back to late 2006 psf as well ...
so so fishy
Citibank is locally incorporated.
Evasive and dubious. Can't you just answer a simple question? Which bank do you work for and the branch?
This way we know you are telling the truth that some banks do not ask owners to top up loans. Otherwise, you could just be another poster in the forum who is not giving truthful information and there goes all your cred.
:cool: I am perfectly fine being "another poster in the forum", given zero credibility by other posters.
regards
Evasive and dubious. Can't you just answer a simple question? Which bank do you work for and the branch?
This way we know you are telling the truth that some banks do not ask owners to top up loans. Otherwise, you could just be another poster in the forum who is not giving truthful information and there goes all your cred.
Does knowing which bank he/she works in makes any difference to what has been mentioned? Does knowing which branch makes any difference? It is either you believe or you don't believe. If you don't, could you be more constructive as to point out what you don't believe or is not true and provide more information? (Otherwise people will feel really baffled as to why you are trying to 'struggle' somebody for providing constructive and useful information).
Evasive and dubious. Can't you just answer a simple question? Which bank do you work for and the branch?
This way we know you are telling the truth that some banks do not ask owners to top up loans. Otherwise, you could just be another poster in the forum who is not giving truthful information and there goes all your cred.
Which banks & what valuations they provide? If banks provide low valuation for a project, then may be they are not interested to loan for that project. You better go for those they highly valued (i.e. give better valuations).
is there any qualified Valuer in this forum ??
yesterday i asked banks for valuation for a TOP-ed project ...which in feb09 was traded at 725 psf ...
to my surprise ..they came back with 485 psf ???????? that was the launch price ..?
meanwhile a neighbouring project still trading at 680-700 psf ...
whats going on ?
what do they base their valuation on ?
What project do you want to buy? $1.5m is actually not a lot if you are looking at Orchard Residences, The Marq@Paterson or Ritz Carlton Residences. Furthermore, for prudence people who buy property, they usually set aside money sufficient to pay for at least 3-5 years of monthly instalments.
own? cannot afford lah :rolleyes: i only have 1.5 mil cash now to TRY to own one.
read your own posts and face up to the truth. you posted banks will NEVER ask for topups and we were correcting you on that. we did not post that bank will ALWAYS ask for topups. surely you cannot deny that banks DO ask for topups.
errr.. that's a retort to a frivolous and thoughtless stm.
wah, so sensitive :doh: are you a banker? its unfortunate that the minibonds saga have made them a villified lot
well said.
I am baffled by the fact there are so many hypocrites here. crying mum n pops on this crappy development and that - but secretly hoping price could fall for them to make a bid. what credibility?! do we need to chop like j-dog? or procrastinate and postpone that as an expert is entitled to? absolutely no shame! pui!
Does knowing which bank he/she works in makes any difference to what has been mentioned? Does knowing which branch makes any difference? It is either you believe or you don't believe. If you don't, could you be more constructive as to point out what you don't believe or is not true and provide more information? (Otherwise people will feel really baffled as to why you are trying to 'struggle' somebody for providing constructive and useful information).
is there any qualified Valuer in this forum ??
yesterday i asked banks for valuation for a TOP-ed project ...which in feb09 was traded at 725 psf ...
to my surprise ..they came back with 485 psf ???????? that was the launch price ..?
meanwhile a neighbouring project still trading at 680-700 psf ...
whats going on ?
what do they base their valuation on ?
Proud Owner, as far as I know, there are currently very few units for sale at VP. I've viewed both VP and Stellar recently and this is my comparison:-
- Very small plot area for Stellar as compared to VP which is surprising huge and spacious
- VP's basement car park is really generous, bright and airy, cannot comment further at Stellar.
- Location wise, Stellar is unfortunately located at the edge of a T-junction, between Clementi rd and West Coast Road which IMO not as comfi.
Probably that may be one of the reason why the valuation does'nt stack up between a FH and a 99LH project next to each other. U judge for yourself. Cheers.
browncow88
01-04-09, 21:53
Heard that Ferrell Investments have sold their units in Rivergate lock, stock and barrel at $850 psqft to a Taiwanese consortium. Can anyone verify ? Thank you.
:cool: I am perfectly fine being "another poster in the forum", given zero credibility by other posters.
regards
I have made my point too. So you have a taste of your own medicine of trying to push somebody to be transparent.
So typical of people to demand others to do something but themselves not willing to be so, haha.
Could you give more details, not 1/4 information? You only answer 1/4 the question asked by fellow forum-er.
Which bank and branch?
Btw, since when did we have 4 local banks again? I'm only aware of UOB, OCBC, DBS.
To be precise, there are six local banks in Singapore. For those who do not already know, please refer to the MAS link below.
http://www.mas.gov.sg/fi_directory/index.html
you atas mah :) but such loans are great in a hot property market.
you have any advice for someone looking to buy property now? say i have 1.5 million cash, should i just buy one unit and pay cash or should i take a loan? i do not forsee a need to use the cash for any other purpose and its rotting in the banks anyway with their miserable interest rates.
I am no property guru.. I am a newbie.
But for myself, I would not pay up with all my cash.
I would just pay the necessary (maybe 30-40% of value) and obtain the loan for the rest. The balance of the cash should be put to better use in this once in a lifetime opportunity in EQUITY MARKET! :) NO RISK NO GAIN... I am buying in tranches now.. hope to complete my tranches end of this year to early next year. Buy whenever there is a selldown.
Does knowing which bank he/she works in makes any difference to what has been mentioned? Does knowing which branch makes any difference? It is either you believe or you don't believe. If you don't, could you be more constructive as to point out what you don't believe or is not true and provide more information? (Otherwise people will feel really baffled as to why you are trying to 'struggle' somebody for providing constructive and useful information).
Well, as mentioned, I'm a ready customer whom I believe any of the local or foreign banks will be all too ready to do business with. So if repase71 is so sure his bank do not ask people to top up, I see it as a win-win situation for both of us to do business.
In fact, I believe a lot of forumers will also want to take their mortgage to his/her bank. UNLESS, he is not sure of his own statement or he is just not speaking the truth which explains why he/she doesn't dare to reveal the bank/ branch.
Ok, let me relax the `rule' a bit, just tell the forum the bank will do :spliff2:
Otherwise, do not speak so boldly and claim as though you are the authority and work for a bank and thus know that banks do not ask people to top up, because I know of cases where banks to ask people to top up.
errr.. that's a retort to a frivolous and thoughtless stm.
frivolous and thoughtless? you must be living in a well :rolleyes:
its a fact that when i was thinking of taking a short term loan due to business expansion and cash flow reasons, i was told its very difficult to get the banks to approve and there were tons of paperwork to be filled and one needs to show a long track record of profits etc. when i have tons of money idling in the banks (my own personal funds), i start to get unsolicited calls from banks to offer me all sorts of financing without any collateral or having the need to fill up tons of paperwork which i obviously do not need. throughout this period, my business has also been the same.
the key difference being i pumped in my own money to finance the company's purchases :D
Heard that Ferrell Investments have sold their units in Rivergate lock, stock and barrel at $850 psqft to a Taiwanese consortium. Can anyone verify ? Thank you.
so many different stories on ferrell just from this thread...dunno which one to believe :D
qwertyuiop
01-04-09, 22:51
Hi, chill it bro. I think repanse 71 was just being nice to give advice which he was not obliged to. No need to get so agitated man. If you are ready for purchase, just make sure you check with whatever banks you are interested in and clear all your doubts. Don't have to be so critical lar.. :)
Well, as mentioned, I'm a ready customer whom I believe any of the local or foreign banks will be all too ready to do business with. So if repase71 is so sure his bank do not ask people to top up, I see it as a win-win situation for both of us to do business.
In fact, I believe a lot of forumers will also want to take their mortgage to his/her bank. UNLESS, he is not sure of his own statement or he is just not speaking the truth which explains why he/she doesn't dare to reveal the bank/ branch.
Ok, let me relax the `rule' a bit, just tell the forum the bank will do :spliff2:
Otherwise, do not speak so boldly and claim as though you are the authority and work for a bank and thus know that banks do not ask people to top up, because I know of cases where banks to ask people to top up.
well said.
I am baffled by the fact there are so many hypocrites here. crying mum n pops on this crappy development and that - but secretly hoping price could fall for them to make a bid. what credibility?! do we need to chop like j-dog? or procrastinate and postpone that as an expert is entitled to? absolutely no shame! pui!
grow up lah, everyone can point out the pros and cons of anything or product.
it does not mean they will never buy it. folks will still buy if the price is right for them. the key issue is what is the right price? and that is different for different folks.
why feel sore even if you own a unit and watch others condemn it? just join in the crowd and buy another unit to double your investment and potential profit :D
its like me saying why pay so much for a beemer when its 190K+ but when it dropped to 150K+, i thought the price is ok and the depreciation per year is acceptable at the new price. the price did not drop because of me passing comments on the beemer.
if you cannot bear to read about negative comments and wish to only listen to what you like to hear, then learn to filter out negative comments on your own...like that advertisement where you hear only what you wish to hear :rolleyes:
qwertyuiop
01-04-09, 22:54
Well, it doesn't take a genius to identify those with hidden agenda..isn't it? :cheers6:
well said.
I am baffled by the fact there are so many hypocrites here. crying mum n pops on this crappy development and that - but secretly hoping price could fall for them to make a bid. what credibility?! do we need to chop like j-dog? or procrastinate and postpone that as an expert is entitled to? absolutely no shame! pui!
I am no property guru.. I am a newbie.
But for myself, I would not pay up with all my cash.
I would just pay the necessary (maybe 30-40% of value) and obtain the loan for the rest. The balance of the cash should be put to better use in this once in a lifetime opportunity in EQUITY MARKET! :) NO RISK NO GAIN... I am buying in tranches now.. hope to complete my tranches end of this year to early next year. Buy whenever there is a selldown.
imho, the equity market is not at the stage where i can buy and keep them locked up for 5 years. there are trading opportunities but i do not have the time to monitor them. also, i am not very lucky when it comes to shares :D
What project do you want to buy? $1.5m is actually not a lot if you are looking at Orchard Residences, The Marq@Paterson or Ritz Carlton Residences. Furthermore, for prudence people who buy property, they usually set aside money sufficient to pay for at least 3-5 years of monthly instalments.
for my standard, if can buy RG, Cosmo or Suites@Central already contented.
i also do not like to take loans or be in debt that is why i have always paid cash for my cars too and i am setting aside a budget of 1.5m cash to buy a property. quite keen to explore buying 2 as someone here suggested since i am quite comfortable to set aside another $5-10K per month to pay off loans if necessary plus may also get rental income from one of the 2 units. just not sure what to do since there appears to be so many options available :banghead:
RIVERGATE (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04');) SGD1,967,650 1,711sf 1,150psf Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04');) SGD1,239,600 1,033sf 1,200psf Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04');) SGD1,250,000 1,033sf 1,210psf Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04');) SGD1,853,610 1,550sf 1,196psf Feb-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04');) SGD1,291,250 1,033sf 1,250psf Feb-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04');) SGD1,266,000 1,055sf 1,200psf Feb-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04');) SGD2,200,000 1,550sf 1,419psf Dec-08
RIVERGATE (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04');) SGD1,705,000 1,550sf 1,100psf Dec-08
RIVERGATE (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04');) SGD2,345,000 1,539sf 1,523psf Oct-08
Ｒead my earlier posts.
1) I never said my bank never asked for top-up.
2) I listed conditions where people are in danger of being asked to top-up
If you are ready customer looking for pure home financing, seek the bank you think provide the best deal.
regards
Well, as mentioned, I'm a ready customer whom I believe any of the local or foreign banks will be all too ready to do business with. So if repase71 is so sure his bank do not ask people to top up, I see it as a win-win situation for both of us to do business.
In fact, I believe a lot of forumers will also want to take their mortgage to his/her bank. UNLESS, he is not sure of his own statement or he is just not speaking the truth which explains why he/she doesn't dare to reveal the bank/ branch.
Ok, let me relax the `rule' a bit, just tell the forum the bank will do :spliff2:
Otherwise, do not speak so boldly and claim as though you are the authority and work for a bank and thus know that banks do not ask people to top up, because I know of cases where banks to ask people to top up.
As repase71 mentioned, he is not in sales and he doesn't gain from it. He want to have some privacy regarding which bank & branch he works in is perfectly reasonable (since he already said he is a banker). (In retrospect, why not you say what job you do, which company you work, what is your company's address?)
So, best way is to go and confirm with the banks. You want to know which bank give better rates? Check with DBS, Maybank or Standard Chartered (as far as I know). Otherwise, check with HSBC, UOB, OCBC, Citibank. There are just so few banks in Singapore!
Well, as mentioned, I'm a ready customer whom I believe any of the local or foreign banks will be all too ready to do business with. So if repase71 is so sure his bank do not ask people to top up, I see it as a win-win situation for both of us to do business.
In fact, I believe a lot of forumers will also want to take their mortgage to his/her bank. UNLESS, he is not sure of his own statement or he is just not speaking the truth which explains why he/she doesn't dare to reveal the bank/ branch.
Ok, let me relax the `rule' a bit, just tell the forum the bank will do :spliff2:
Otherwise, do not speak so boldly and claim as though you are the authority and work for a bank and thus know that banks do not ask people to top up, because I know of cases where banks to ask people to top up.
As repase71 mentioned, he is not in sales and he doesn't gain from it. He want to have some privacy regarding which bank & branch he works in is perfectly reasonable (since he already said he is a banker). (In retrospect, why not you say what job you do, which company you work, what is your company's address?)
So, best way is to go and confirm with the banks. You want to know which bank give better rates? Check with DBS, Maybank or Standard Chartered (as far as I know). Otherwise, check with HSBC, UOB, OCBC, Citibank. There are just so few banks in Singapore!
Pls do not side-tracked from the issue at hand. Its not the best rates that people are seeking. That, any 3 year old toddler can go on the net and compare. Or, i just need to drop my PBs a line and they will just quote me the rates.
Its the bold claim that his bank do not ask people to top-up that attracts my attention. And i can easily meet those conditions set by repase71. So, if there is money to be made, why would anybody reject business? Even if he is not front-line, it will benefit his bank and as an employee, shouldnt he be keen that his bank does well?
I hope you are not my staff coz your idea that only front-line should be concerned with sales is dangerous. A successful organisation requires all employees to think for the company.
Ｒead my earlier posts.
1) I never said my bank never asked for top-up.
2) I listed conditions where people are in danger of being asked to top-up
If you are ready customer looking for pure home financing, seek the bank you think provide the best deal.
regards
I quote from your post:-
"Hi all
If you only have housing loan, no overdraft nor term loans, as long as you service your monthly installment, you are safe and will NOT be asked to top up when valuations falls."
I know of cases where people meet your above conditions and still was asked to top-up. That's why if your bank, as claimed by you with a CAPITAL `NOT', do not ask people to top up, I will be glad to inform those people, 1 of whom is my staff.
While you have asked people to, I quote, `Stop causing and perpetuating unnecessary fear based on unsubstantiated claims and hearsay.', I asked you to back that up with actions. Otherwise, please stop giving false hopes or confidence to people who may over-stretch themselves by buying at prices they actually can't afford.
fight fight fight! :luke-and-darth:
It is already well-known that banks ask for top-up only under certain conditions and these have been spelled out by repase71 and the news article. As long as a person is financially strong, there is no need to worry about the top-up. So why you worry? If a person is so scare of top-up, then he/she should be advised to just steer clear of taking a property loan (simple as that).
You really believe all employees work and think for the employers? Even those at the top claiming millions of dollars of salary (AIG, Merrill Lynch, etc) cannot do so, what to expect from the Tom, Dick, and Harry? As a matter of fact, a good employee should be one who should just do his own job well. If he is not in sales, why he care & meddle about sales? He can comments on some terms & conditions etc but he cannot represent his bank (in this example) in sales and so the best thing to do is to ask you to go ask the bank! As far as I know, nobody in the bank will commit (give you a written letter etc) saying that they will not ask you to top-up! (because things change after loan approved and you may max out your credit cards, get a second property loan, start defaulting on monthly payments and do some silly things etc!).
Pls do not side-tracked from the issue at hand. Its not the best rates that people are seeking. That, any 3 year old toddler can go on the net and compare. Or, i just need to drop my PBs a line and they will just quote me the rates.
Its the bold claim that his bank do not ask people to top-up that attracts my attention. And i can easily meet those conditions set by repase71. So, if there is money to be made, why would anybody reject business? Even if he is not front-line, it will benefit his bank and as an employee, shouldnt he be keen that his bank does well?
I hope you are not my staff coz your idea that only front-line should be concerned with sales is dangerous. A successful organisation requires all employees to think for the company.
Thanks for being so understanding.
Regards
It is already well-known that banks ask for top-up only under certain conditions and these have been spelled out by repase71 and the news article. As long as a person is financially strong, there is no need to worry about the top-up. So why you worry? If a person is so scare of top-up, then he/she should be advised to just steer clear of taking a property loan (simple as that).
You really believe all employees work and think for the employers? Even those at the top claiming millions of dollars of salary (AIG, Merrill Lynch, etc) cannot do so, what to expect from the Tom, Dick, and Harry? As a matter of fact, a good employee should be one who should just do his own job well. If he is not in sales, why he care & meddle about sales? He can comments on some terms & conditions etc but he cannot represent his bank (in this example) in sales and so the best thing to do is to ask you to go ask the bank! As far as I know, nobody in the bank will commit (give you a written letter etc) saying that they will not ask you to top-up! (because things change after loan approved and you may max out your credit cards, get a second property loan, start defaulting on monthly payments and do some silly things etc!).
Ya, there is no point in forcing people to reveal their work location and such..
This is a forum and everything said should be taken with a pinch of salt ...and maybe put an umbrella on the glass for best results.
I say I am not rich but comfortably retire with a multimillion fortune.
You can say you are a top pte banker in DBS...
No need to argue over such things lah.
It is already well-known that banks ask for top-up only under certain conditions and these have been spelled out by repase71 and the news article. As long as a person is financially strong, there is no need to worry about the top-up. So why you worry? If a person is so scare of top-up, then he/she should be advised to just steer clear of taking a property loan (simple as that).
You really believe all employees work and think for the employers? Even those at the top claiming millions of dollars of salary (AIG, Merrill Lynch, etc) cannot do so, what to expect from the Tom, Dick, and Harry? As a matter of fact, a good employee should be one who should just do his own job well. If he is not in sales, why he care & meddle about sales? He can comments on some terms & conditions etc but he cannot represent his bank (in this example) in sales and so the best thing to do is to ask you to go ask the bank! As far as I know, nobody in the bank will commit (give you a written letter etc) saying that they will not ask you to top-up! (because things change after loan approved and you may max out your credit cards, get a second property loan, start defaulting on monthly payments and do some silly things etc!).
Which is my point exactly. If not so sure and confident, then don't proclaim so loudly that his bank DO not ask people to top up, just shut up and don't try to give people fase sense of security.Some people may read his comments and decide to hold on to a property instead of selling it now but instead later had to force sell at a lower price. Since repase71 is now so quiet and dare not reveal his bank's name, I'll just tell my friends there is no such bank.So buyers beware, banks DO ask you to top up when valuation is below your loan outstanding. And in a declining market, better to be prudent in buying properties. Whatever your banker approve in principle, give yourself 10% buffer when offering to sellers.
Ya, there is no point in forcing people to reveal their work location and such..
This is a forum and everything said should be taken with a pinch of salt ...and maybe put an umbrella on the glass for best results.
I say I am not rich but comfortably retire with a multimillion fortune.
You can say you are a top pte banker in DBS...
No need to argue over such things lah.
To be honest, I do not expect him to be so daring to reveal his bank's name, that is if he is even working in a bank. Because there is no such bank who will be so stupid as to claim they will not ask owner to top up. In addition, i have seen 4 cases where even when the financial situation of the borrower has not changed, banks still ask them to top-up.
Please note that your statement:
"banks DO ask you to top up when valuation is below your loan outstanding" is NOT TRUE!
Banks DO NOT, I repeat, "DO NOT" ask you to top up just because "valuation is below your loan outstanding". Please do not spread such rumour. Usually, banks ask you to top up only when your credit rating has deteriorated or perceive you to be of high risk to default type! The exact factors & determinants will differ from bank to bank. There were a few cases previously where the affected complain to newspapers etc and end up they had been exposed to have either defaulted on their monthly loan instalments or credit card payments etc (for various reasons which affected their credit ratings)! In your 4 cases, one of these possibility may have occurred. Unless you are one of them, you may not know the details.
To be honest, I do not expect him to be so daring to reveal his bank's name, that is if he is even working in a bank. Because there is no such bank who will be so stupid as to claim they will not ask owner to top up. In addition, i have seen 4 cases where even when the financial situation of the borrower has not changed, banks still ask them to top-up.
qwertyuiop
02-04-09, 16:06
Hi Bro HP65, lets put your 4 so-called 'cases' aside. Have you ever been asked to top up when your property/properties devaluate?
Please advise. Many thanks :)
Which is my point exactly. If not so sure and confident, then don't proclaim so loudly that his bank DO not ask people to top up, just shut up and don't try to give people fase sense of security.Some people may read his comments and decide to hold on to a property instead of selling it now but instead later had to force sell at a lower price. Since repase71 is now so quiet and dare not reveal his bank's name, I'll just tell my friends there is no such bank.So buyers beware, banks DO ask you to top up when valuation is below your loan outstanding. And in a declining market, better to be prudent in buying properties. Whatever your banker approve in principle, give yourself 10% buffer when offering to sellers.
proud owner
02-04-09, 16:29
Ya, there is no point in forcing people to reveal their work location and such..
This is a forum and everything said should be taken with a pinch of salt ...and maybe put an umbrella on the glass for best results.
I say I am not rich but comfortably retire with a multimillion fortune.
You can say you are a top pte banker in DBS...
No need to argue over such things lah.
Are you guys aware that you can contact individual Forum-er privately ???
If HP65 has contacted repanse71 individually .. I am sure they can strike some kind of connection ... personal level ..
But unfortunately asking him where / which etc etc here .. even if i was Repanse71 I would reveeal ...
Hi Bro HP65, lets put your 4 so-called 'cases' aside. Have you ever been asked to top up when your property/properties devaluate?
Please advise. Many thanks :)
Short answer, no. Reasons being:-
For my 1st property, which is for own stay,
i) I bought when property mkt was `normal' ie not speculated like pre '96 or pre '07 (Sg mkt). Thus opportunity cost for own stay is low.
ii) LTV was 50%. When market tank in '97, I was still above water. Banks had no reason to ask me to top-up since devalued property price still above loan outstanding
iii) Hse fully paid off in 10 yrs, so banks couldn't touch it at all.
Subsequent investment properties:-
i) Maximum LTV is 50%. Even if I have the cash, I do not pay more. I like leverage and banks love that too. Chance for them to earn stable interest income, on top of other fees/ commissions income
ii) Buy only when market is not over-heated. My fav time to buy is when there is over-supply in the mkt (that is coming very soon). Sell when there is a supply squeeze.
Thus banks has never ask me to top up even when my properties devalued like in 1996 and 2002.
same here. who are you to ask people where you are working?! so crass!
Are you guys aware that you can contact individual Forum-er privately ???
If HP65 has contacted repanse71 individually .. I am sure they can strike some kind of connection ... personal level ..
But unfortunately asking him where / which etc etc here .. even if i was Repanse71 I would reveeal ...
sure!~ And I am warrant buffet.
Talk is cheap anyway. Make sure you keep your liquidity. Alot of loudmouth have seen their biz tanked anyway. Oops.. not saying yours would...
frivolous and thoughtless? you must be living in a well :rolleyes:
its a fact that when i was thinking of taking a short term loan due to business expansion and cash flow reasons, i was told its very difficult to get the banks to approve and there were tons of paperwork to be filled and one needs to show a long track record of profits etc. when i have tons of money idling in the banks (my own personal funds), i start to get unsolicited calls from banks to offer me all sorts of financing without any collateral or having the need to fill up tons of paperwork which i obviously do not need. throughout this period, my business has also been the same.
the key difference being i pumped in my own money to finance the company's purchases :D
qwertyuiop
03-04-09, 12:16
Thanks fr your reply. As you have not personnally experienced call up from bank to top up, I shall take what you have suggested previously (if it's just based on your 'friends') with a table-spoon of salt.:D
Short answer, no. Reasons being:-
For my 1st property, which is for own stay,
i) I bought when property mkt was `normal' ie not speculated like pre '96 or pre '07 (Sg mkt). Thus opportunity cost for own stay is low.
ii) LTV was 50%. When market tank in '97, I was still above water. Banks had no reason to ask me to top-up since devalued property price still above loan outstanding
iii) Hse fully paid off in 10 yrs, so banks couldn't touch it at all.
Subsequent investment properties:-
i) Maximum LTV is 50%. Even if I have the cash, I do not pay more. I like leverage and banks love that too. Chance for them to earn stable interest income, on top of other fees/ commissions income
ii) Buy only when market is not over-heated. My fav time to buy is when there is over-supply in the mkt (that is coming very soon). Sell when there is a supply squeeze.
Thus banks has never ask me to top up even when my properties devalued like in 1996 and 2002.
sure!~ And I am warrant buffet.
Talk is cheap anyway. Make sure you keep your liquidity. Alot of loudmouth have seen their biz tanked anyway. Oops.. not saying yours would...
lol what a retard :D you are more like OKT ;)
Thanks fr your reply. As you have not personnally experienced call up from bank to top up, I shall take what you have suggested previously (if it's just based on your 'friends') with a table-spoon of salt.:D
why should he experience it if he had been borrowing prudently and not leveraging to the max?
you can choose to take good advice or choose to be funny about this issue.
he's not saying banks will ALWAYS ask anyone to top up their loans if the valuation drops. he's just pointing out a simple fact that unlike what someone supposedly working in a bank claimed, that banks DO NOT ask for topups.
its common sense that for many who do not leverage to the max, they are not so much at risk when the valuations drop as is what's happening now. its just wrong to give people false hope that so long as they are prompt in monthly repayments, banks will never ask for topups no matter how much the valuation drops relative to their loan amount. its proven that they do based on various factors.
u all caNNOT AFFORD dont talk so much lah
usually i dont even need loan to buy property
And a adject failure you are .. little man.. with little dick.
lol what a retard :D you are more like OKT ;)
Read the earlier threads on who said what. You are confused and are confusing others.
Other than those general scenarios I listed out, most borrowers are in no danger if dutifully service their monthly installment.
Do your homework. When one talks to RM from various banks when getting a loan, ask them the right questions about reasons behind their top-up cases... Get their manager to confirm their answer if necessary...
Regards
why should he experience it if he had been borrowing prudently and not leveraging to the max?
you can choose to take good advice or choose to be funny about this issue.
he's not saying banks will ALWAYS ask anyone to top up their loans if the valuation drops. he's just pointing out a simple fact that unlike what someone supposedly working in a bank claimed, that banks DO NOT ask for topups.
its common sense that for many who do not leverage to the max, they are not so much at risk when the valuations drop as is what's happening now. its just wrong to give people false hope that so long as they are prompt in monthly repayments, banks will never ask for topups no matter how much the valuation drops relative to their loan amount. its proven that they do based on various factors.
Many people here (I believe) are referring to his statement that:
"banks DO ask you to top up when valuation is below your loan outstanding".
Is this true just purely on this "valuation" factor? I don't believe this is true if no other factors are involved (and so do many others). It has been proven FALSE again and again even when for those who complained to reporters, and make a hoo-ha out of it, and appear on newspapers (and become famous by the way). Unless he had experience himself (which is not the case here), so how to prove his statement is true? (when it is contrary to what has been proven otherwise?). Does this not constitute spreading false rumours when others have pointed out that is not true and provided evidence even in the form of news article?
why should he experience it if he had been borrowing prudently and not leveraging to the max?
you can choose to take good advice or choose to be funny about this issue.
he's not saying banks will ALWAYS ask anyone to top up their loans if the valuation drops. he's just pointing out a simple fact that unlike what someone supposedly working in a bank claimed, that banks DO NOT ask for topups.
its common sense that for many who do not leverage to the max, they are not so much at risk when the valuations drop as is what's happening now. its just wrong to give people false hope that so long as they are prompt in monthly repayments, banks will never ask for topups no matter how much the valuation drops relative to their loan amount. its proven that they do based on various factors.
jesus christ, when're you guys gonna stop this bank loan top up thing?
might as well change the thread heading!
can't believe it, can OT for some many pages....
Property_Owner
04-04-09, 13:45
jesus christ, when're you guys gonna stop this bank loan top up thing?
might as well change the thread heading!
can't believe it, can OT for some many pages....
Stop fighting here. Morning went lin kopi with my friend. Told me he sold his unit in RV at 1400psf. Think bank can't match the valuation. Well, willing seller, willing buyer.
And a adject failure you are .. little man.. with little dick.
lol, talk about crass and uncouth :rolleyes:
u all caNNOT AFFORD dont talk so much lah
usually i dont even need loan to buy property
lol good one. i always thought iras will go after those who don't take loans :D
Many people here (I believe) are referring to his statement that:
"banks DO ask you to top up when valuation is below your loan outstanding".
Is this true just purely on this "valuation" factor? I don't believe this is true if no other factors are involved (and so do many others). It has been proven FALSE again and again even when for those who complained to reporters, and make a hoo-ha out of it, and appear on newspapers (and become famous by the way). Unless he had experience himself (which is not the case here), so how to prove his statement is true? (when it is contrary to what has been proven otherwise?). Does this not constitute spreading false rumours when others have pointed out that is not true and provided evidence even in the form of news article?
granted that there are always other factors involved in such matters. if you read that statement as meaning that banks WILL ask for topups if valuation is below loan outstanding, then maybe it had been interpreted wrongly as I believe that was not the message being conveyed. DO and WILL are quite different. conversely, the other message that was being conveyed was that so long as you pay your loans promptly, banks will never ask you to top up your loans come what may, which is untrue if taken to the extreme as well.
either way, all the above shouldn't affect me, in fact, since i am planning to buy property in future, it might even help me with some distress sales for those who misinterpreted the above comments and get into trouble :D
Read the earlier threads on who said what. You are confused and are confusing others.
Other than those general scenarios I listed out, most borrowers are in no danger if dutifully service their monthly installment.
Regards
ah...this is very different from what was conveyed earlier. "MOST borrowers are in no danger" is rather different from the impression given earlier that one is safe so long as monthly payments are prompt. maybe valuations have not fallen that much yet to affect more borrowers ;)
I guess we don’t see a lot of topup case because most of those units bought during the peak was under DPS. Owner did not take up loan during the peak. Owner only taken up loan nearer TOP. The issue is not topup , but the reduced loan amount under the new valuation and the loan limit in this market condition.
The market index is nearer to early 2007 now, if the index fall by another 15% in next 6 months, let put our fingers cross and see what will happen.
ah...this is very different from what was conveyed earlier. "MOST borrowers are in no danger" is rather different from the impression given earlier that one is safe so long as monthly payments are prompt. maybe valuations have not fallen that much yet to affect more borrowers ;)
I guess we don’t see a lot of topup case because most of those units bought during the peak was under DPS. Owner did not take up loan during the peak. Owner only taken up loan nearer TOP. The issue is not topup , but the reduced loan amount under the new valuation and the loan limit in this market condition.
The market index is nearer to early 2007 now, if the index fall by another 15% in next 6 months, let put our fingers cross and see what will happen.
I think I agree with 爱屋及乌. There are two distinct discussions. One of pre-drawdown (as part of the conditions precedent), and another is during the term of the loan. The key issue now at play which will partly form the basis of the pricing dynamics in the market, and I continue to think that will remain as the key issue at hand even in the months to come as more units TOP, is the sourcing of financing.
Owners under DPS would original set out their sources of funds on the basis of a certain LTV % . There is two parameters - the percentage("%") which banks would finance the property, and the valuation number ("V"). When the % and V, change, then naturally, the sources of funds changes accordinging, in this case, decreases. This limits owners ability to pay up at TOP and thus ability to follow through their oriignal investment/purchase. This is somethign well understood and presented (in some instances, not so well presented by some. Some in this forum likes to presents, perhaps short and in most instances, in what appears to be raw and unconsidered thoughts but they do get it eventually). My view is, this is something which some owners are trying to come to terms with - struggling to obtain their financing.
They above is very different from banks requesting for a top during the term of the loan, after the conditions precedent have been met and drawdown has occured. Something which has been discussed (perhaps argued) at lenght. Some interesting thoughts has been presented, some in its raw and unconsidered form, often demonstrating the level and strength (or weakness) of the analytical mind possess.
On the note of banks asking individuals to top up, here are my views, reproduced from my earlier post.
This is from my personal experience and observation. Banks may ask you to top up but I believe this is done on a best efforts basis and to the maximum extent the owner can do so (i.e. by exercising any set off rights the bank may have on their accounts and likewise).
Let's assume the following scenario.
Assuming you are Bank A (where A is a local bank), and you have a mortgage loan customer with LTV=80% at signing and drawdown back then. This borrower is a good customer and has been paying his mortgage payments on time. LTV now falls to say 75%. You ask the customer to top up 5%. Customer says he has money to make the monthly mortgage paymetns but no money to top up the 5%. You discuss this a number of times with this customer, after 4 weeks, he is still not able to top up. Your next course of action available is then to exercise your right to enforce security, apply to the court for foreclosure on mortgage asset, extinguish the equity of redemption held by the owner, and power of sale (pursuant to the terms of the mortgage loan).
I do not think people are arguing if the banks will ask you to top up or not, the real question is if banks will really enforce security, file for foreclosure on the mortgage, apply to the courts to extinguish the equity right of redemption, and proceed to enforce their right to power of sale. The legal process typically will take quite a while, say 3-4 weeks. From the time the bank determines LTV is 75%, the Borrower refusal to top up (after multiple consultation), application to court for power of sale, and eventually reception of actual proceed of the sale (if they get to sell it off successfully), it will be quite a while. At that time, LTV may even be at about 65% or 60%. Banks then take an approx. 20% write off against their funded exposure.
Now, if you have a customer whom have originally been paying their mortgage payments on time, why would a bank want to go through this enforcement, in the process take up reputational risk, and credit write off. Once you enforce security and foreclose on the asset, you are effectively giving up on a paying customer whom have been satisfying his loan obligations but simply not able to top up the shortfall in LTV ??
If you are the credit committee of the bank, are you able to stand up to the argument of enforcing the security notwithstanding
(i) your customer has been making good on his mortgage payments; and
(ii) considering the bank faces a highly likely prospect of loan write off (not even provisioning)
if they take such an enforcement action given the time lag in process and prices in a falling market.
Assuming the above holds true, the bank who decide to exercise their rights to enforce will have to
(i) commit resources to this particular work-out,
(ii) incur legal fees (though under the loan docs you probably have right for these to be reimburse, but we are talking about a forcing a bad loan into enforcement with potentially recovery rates of less than 90%(potentially)),
(iii) and other OPE expenses.
Like we discussed above, chances are, the banks will be more than happy if they can already recover their principal loan, not to mention these enforcement expenses (both in terms of management time, staff resources, legal risk and most importantly, reputational risk, and social good-will). Given the light of the above, two questions.
Q1. Would you actively pursue a policy of requesting performing loan assets to top up? and
Q2. Have you have seen this or have direct personal experience in such top ups leading to enforcement action by the bank (realisation of equity investment loss).
I am not sure how many of the forummers here have really been through a work-out situation with the liquidation counsels of a bank or is it just plain thoughts thinking wild and aloud in your own minds that banks will act or behave in a certain fashion. For those whom have direct experience in a bank top up situation, leading to enforcing (i.e. realisation of investment equity loss event) on the same, please share.
Personally, I firmly believe that the enforcement route is never the bank's preferred route or recovery. In fact, in most cases, recovery rates are usually lowest by way of enforcement. Banks typically do not adopt the enforcement action unless it is the absolutely last resort. If you have a paying customer, banks are usually quite happy. Consequentially, requesting customers to top is not often preferred if they already know it is likely to lead them to a worse off position that what they could have achieved, if the customer has been and is still continuing to make timely payments.
I invite everyone not to take my word for it. Talk to your independent insolvency counsel and make your own judgement and views on the same. By the same token, for those who would like to speak and voice their views, you are naturally welcomed to do but please do so with logic, reason and structured and grounded arguments. Often, we see hand-waving comments and views, unsubstantiated irrational remarks both from a credit point of view; operationally/institutionally impractical from the banks' point of view.
I agree with u that force top up or foreclosure is not a prefer method from bank perspective.
You example may explain the current situation. However , as I pointed out , what if the property valuation fall another 15% in next 6 months, hence the loan to valuation will be 20% short. Would the bank actively do some something to mitigate thier exposure....?
Let's assume the following scenario.
Assuming you are Bank A (where A is a local bank), and you have a mortgage loan customer with LTV=80% at signing and drawdown back then. This borrower is a good customer and has been paying his mortgage payments on time. LTV now falls to say 75%. You ask the customer to top up 5%. Customer says he has money to make the monthly mortgage paymetns but no money to top up the 5%. You discuss this a number of times with this customer, after 4 weeks, he is still not able to top up. Your next course of action available is then to exercise your right to enforce security, apply to the court for foreclosure on mortgage asset, extinguish the equity of redemption held by the owner, and power of sale (pursuant to the terms of the mortgage loan).
I do not think people are arguing if the banks will ask you to top up or not, the real question is if banks will really enforce security, file for foreclosure on the mortgage, apply to the courts to extinguish the equity right of redemption, and proceed to enforce their right to power of sale. The legal process typically will take quite a while, say 3-4 weeks. From the time the bank determines LTV is 75%, the Borrower refusal to top up (after multiple consultation), application to court for power of sale, and eventually reception of actual proceed of the sale (if they get to sell it off successfully), it will be quite a while. At that time, LTV may even be at about 65% or 60%. Banks then take an approx. 20% write off against their funded exposure.
Now, if you have a customer whom have originally been paying their mortgage payments on time, why would a bank want to go through this enforcement, in the process take up reputational risk, and credit write off. Once you enforce security and foreclose on the asset, you are effectively giving up on a paying customer whom have been satisfying his loan obligations but simply not able to top up the shortfall in LTV ??
If you are the credit committee of the bank, are you able to stand up to the argument of enforcing the security notwithstanding
(i) your customer has been making good on his mortgage payments; and
(ii) considering the bank faces a highly likely prospect of loan write off (not even provisioning)
if they take such an enforcement action given the time lag in process and prices in a falling market.
Assuming the above holds true, the bank who decide to exercise their rights to enforce will have to
(i) commit resources to this particular work-out,
(ii) incur legal fees (though under the loan docs you probably have right for these to be reimburse, but we are talking about a forcing a bad loan into enforcement with potentially recovery rates of less than 90%(potentially)),
(iii) and other OPE expenses.
Like we discussed above, chances are, the banks will be more than happy if they can already recover their principal loan, not to mention these enforcement expenses (both in terms of management time, staff resources, legal risk and most importantly, reputational risk, and social good-will). Given the light of the above, two questions.
Q1. Would you actively pursue a policy of requesting performing loan assets to top up? and
Q2. Have you have seen this or have direct personal experience in such top ups leading to enforcement action by the bank (realisation of equity investment loss).
I am not sure how many of the forummers here have really been through a work-out situation with the liquidation counsels of a bank or is it just plain thoughts thinking wild and aloud in your own minds that banks will act or behave in a certain fashion. For those whom have direct experience in a bank top up situation, leading to enforcing (i.e. realisation of investment equity loss event) on the same, please share.
Personally, I firmly believe that the enforcement route is never the bank's preferred route or recovery. In fact, in most cases, recovery rates are usually lowest by way of enforcement. Banks typically do not adopt the enforcement action unless it is the absolutely last resort. If you have a paying customer, banks are usually quite happy. Consequentially, requesting customers to top is not often preferred if they already know it is likely to lead them to a worse off position that what they could have achieved, if the customer has been and is still continuing to make timely payments.
I invite everyone not to take my word for it. Talk to your independent insolvency counsel and make your own judgement and views on the same. By the same token, for those who would like to speak and voice their views, you are naturally welcomed to do but please do so with logic, reason and structured and grounded arguments. Often, we see hand-waving comments and views, unsubstantiated irrational remarks both from a credit point of view; operationally/institutionally impractical from the banks' point of view.
I agree with u that force top up or foreclosure is not a prefer method from bank perspective.
You example may explain the current situation. However , as I pointed out , what if the property valuation fall another 15% in next 6 months, hence the loan to valuation will be 20% short. Would the bank actively do some something to mitigate thier exposure....?
Instead of asking questions, perhaps you can form a view and share what you might do, if you are the bank ??
From my point of view, and as supported with my various considerations, I do not think it is in the best interest of the bank to enforce the same, if the customer have proven have kept up with his payments and substantially believed to be able to continue to do so.
Well, as mentioned, I'm a ready customer whom I believe any of the local or foreign banks will be all too ready to do business with. So if repase71 is so sure his bank do not ask people to top up, I see it as a win-win situation for both of us to do business.
In fact, I believe a lot of forumers will also want to take their mortgage to his/her bank. UNLESS, he is not sure of his own statement or he is just not speaking the truth which explains why he/she doesn't dare to reveal the bank/ branch.
Ok, let me relax the `rule' a bit, just tell the forum the bank will do :spliff2:
Otherwise, do not speak so boldly and claim as though you are the authority and work for a bank and thus know that banks do not ask people to top up, because I know of cases where banks to ask people to top up.
I know DBS will never ask for top up for negative equity cases. My 3 housing loans are all from DBS and keep repricing the loans every 2 years. I may get slightly lower rates from other banks but I still stick to DBS because I know they will not take the umbrella away in bad times unlike other banks.
wallstreat
06-04-09, 09:33
From my point of view, and as supported with my various considerations, I do not think it is in the best interest of the bank to enforce the same, if the customer have proven have kept up with his payments and substantially believed to be able to continue to do so.
The banks (or at least the local ones) must also share the same views collectively, and i agree they are at the current point in time.
Perhaps those with experience from the 1997 property crash can share their views about the reaction of the banks back then regarding top-ups.
Thanks for the valuable information. This is what we have been looking for: Real cases to confirm whether do banks actually request for "top-up" in negative equity cases and which banks are these.
I know DBS will never ask for top up for negative equity cases. My 3 housing loans are all from DBS and keep repricing the loans every 2 years. I may get slightly lower rates from other banks but I still stick to DBS because I know they will not take the umbrella away in bad times unlike other banks.
Bishan Kid
06-04-09, 12:00
The banks (or at least the local ones) must also share the same views collectively, and i agree they are at the current point in time.
Perhaps those with experience from the 1997 property crash can share their views about the reaction of the banks back then regarding top-ups.
I bought a unit(Paterson Edge)about $1500psf on Sept 1997 during launch from Developer(Sembawang Land). I have OD of exactly 1 million from OCBC pledge against the property. Despite the crash in 1997 , I believe the valuation has dropped to $1200psf or lower though these is no transaction for Paterson Edge during that time, the bank has never asked for top-up or income vertification till 2003 when I sold off my property.
proud owner
06-04-09, 12:22
I bought a unit(Paterson Edge)about $1500psf on Sept 1997 during launch from Developer(Sembawang Land). I have OD of exactly 1 million from OCBC pledge against the property. Despite the crash in 1997 , I believe the valuation has dropped to $1200psf or lower though these is no transaction for Paterson Edge during that time, the bank has never asked for top-up or income vertification till 2003 when I sold off my property.
made good many ya ?? David Gan bought there as well i think ...said die die must live there ... ahhah
Bishan Kid
06-04-09, 12:25
made good many ya ?? David Gan bought there as well i think ...said die die must live there ... ahhah
If u can afford , always buy prime(location) for rental and higher potential of capital appreciation.
Thanks for the valuable information. This is what we have been looking for: Real cases to confirm whether do banks actually request for "top-up" in negative equity cases and which banks are these.
Proponents of banks-will-ask-for-top-ups can perhaps share their views (substantiated) and direct experience on the same ?
If u can afford , always buy prime(location) for rental and higher potential of capital appreciation.
good point, fully agree with you.
only problem for noobs like me is don't know what is my affordability level. if no outstanding loans of any kind, have 1.5 million spare cash and can fork out $5K/month easily for servicing any loan, what do you think is affordable for someone who is risk averse?
thanks for sharing :)
I talked to loan offcier from DBS , she was relanctant to commit that DBS never ask for topup if my property under negative equity...
Buyer out there , confirm this with your bank on this topup matter and make it black and white in your contract.
Thanks for the valuable information. This is what we have been looking for: Real cases to confirm whether do banks actually request for "top-up" in negative equity cases and which banks are these.
I talked to loan offcier from DBS , she was relanctant to commit that DBS never ask for topup if my property under negative equity...
Buyer out there , confirm this with your bank on this topup matter and make it black and white in your contract.
I highly doubt any bank will put it down in black and white that the bank will never ask for top up if the property is under negative equity...
if there is ever such a clause, pls let us know. This bank will likely take a huge share of the mortgage market.
i think enough has been said about this topic. my conclusion after reading all these posts is that:-
I will assume that banks may ask for top up when valuation falls. Hence I will put myself in such a position that even if there is a requirement to top up, I will be able to do so w/o compromising my financial position in too drastic a manner.
All in all, borrowers beware!
Actually, it's more meaningful to ask and for loan officer to tell under what circumstances have DBS asked for top-up recently and in the past.
Bank will never commit "never top-up" in black and white as someone already pointed out.
Regards
I talked to loan offcier from DBS , she was relanctant to commit that DBS never ask for topup if my property under negative equity...
Buyer out there , confirm this with your bank on this topup matter and make it black and white in your contract.
How to make it black and white when there are so many variables involved (from clients' side and not the bank's side)? The most important issue to banks is: "Are you credit worthy?". How to put in black in white that "when you are not credit worthy, bank will ask for top-up?". As long as a person is 'credit worthy', if this bank tries to be funny, go to another bank! Would bank want to lose a "credit worthy" customer? The answer is an obvious "NO". Thus, I have never heard of "credit worthy" customer being asked by their bank for top-up. For those I had heard of being asked to "top-up", they are all not "credit worthy".
I talked to loan offcier from DBS , she was relanctant to commit that DBS never ask for topup if my property under negative equity...
Buyer out there , confirm this with your bank on this topup matter and make it black and white in your contract.
How to make it black and white when there are so many variables involved (from clients' side and not the bank's side)? The most important issue to banks is: "Are you credit worthy?". How to put in black in white that "when you are not credit worthy, bank will ask for top-up?". As long as a person is 'credit worthy', if this bank tries to be funny, go to another bank! Would bank want to lose a "credit worthy" customer? The answer is an obvious "NO". Thus, I have never heard of "credit worthy" customer being asked by their bank for top-up. For those I had heard of being asked to "top-up", they are all not "credit worthy".
I have seen for myself 4 cases of credit worthy customers who were asked to top-up their loans because their properties' valuation all fell below loan outstanding. If you are just speaking based on the assumption of `why would banks not do business with credit worthy customer?' and that `recent newspapers article say so.', I suggest you stop creating false sense of confidence that may encourage people to over-stretch themselves.
Besides, how many people do you know? Even if you are a loan officer in a bank, does it mean that just because you HAVN'T seen any cases, it represents the entire market?
Today, my staff finally got another bank to grant him a home loan after his previous bank ask him to top up. All 4 cases managed to refinance their mortgage and at rates lower than their previous banks. Thus they are not `credit unworthy'. Therefore banks DO ask people to top-up when valuation drops below loan outstanding. Although I believe its not common practice now, but once it becomes prevalent, it will become `market practice'.
I will continue to retort if I see irresponsible postings that suggest otherwise or give the impression that `banks will not ask people to top-up, as long as they pay up installment monthly and are credit worthy.'
I talked to loan offcier from DBS , she was relanctant to commit that DBS never ask for topup if my property under negative equity...
Buyer out there , confirm this with your bank on this topup matter and make it black and white in your contract.
When I was university there was once this class talkin about enforcement of the law which may potentially consititute as a form of clamp down on human rights, the right to assemble. This is illegal in certain jurisdiction but in some others acceptable (subject to a minimum count).
We then discussed this particular, in my opionion rather interesting observation on the right and power vested in the Police pursue action against gathering of groups of people more than 4 (considered as illegal gathering). I am not a practitioner in criminal law or particularly familiar with penal but this discussion was back then broad enough for most average joe to basically understand the issues.
Assuming it is illegal in Singapore to gather in groups of more than 4 without a licensed permit or pre-approved application ("Permit"). And further assumed, it is not required nor is the burden of proof on the Police to demonstrate or have sufficiently exceeding suspicion of whosoever intents upon the said relevant group to exercise the call of illegality in such gathering. Simply put, we are assuming it is within the immediate, direct and discretionary power of the Police to pursue action any group of 4 and above who might be gathering without such prior Permit.
Question is: do you see this being actively pursue actions against, in general, gathering of persons in spaces and/or collective domains of spaces ? Answer is probably no.
While this is a right or power seldom exercise (but not never), do you see the legislation to be amended, in the light of this right which is seldom exercised, or at least to the extent in a form of a written idemnity by the said relevant authority or perhaps the relevant legislative body ??
I know this may not be a perfect matching parallel to what we discussing herein, but this is something quite clear. A right seldom exercised often leads consumers, who in their own personal immediate capacity and perhaps limited perception of why certain drafting are as drafted, thinks it is then in their best interest to be removed completely. This, I would say, is not clear who will then be the eventually winner if that is indeed removed.
Banks revenue model is such that they get paid for the risk they take (let's not go into the details of term financing and term structures of interest rates which forms the next basis of the business model). By isolating or offloading certain risk, and in some ways by means of certain credit enhancements or structures, banks find that they might be able to provide such financing at a lower rate than they otherwise would not do so.
The ability to call for a top up is one such structure in the loan agreements which provides them "early warning" and allows them to derisk if they have to (derisking the loan asset, from its "heightened risk" level by way of reducing/maintaining a certain LTV during times of devaluation).
Assuming the postulation of banks seldom asking for top ups is true, and if and only if this is true, should not the customers of the loan be happy ?? The effect is that, the loan pricing already priced in a structure which is suppose to work for the bank, but if indeed it is seldom exercised, you are getting the benefit of a loan priced in with such structure but seldom exercised.
On the other hand, assuming DBS comes up with a new loan product which explicit sets out and removes this structure which require customers to top up, what is your guess on such a loan ??
The risk and its associated contingent exposure profile of mortgage home loans has been well studied in the Singapore market. Chances are, factors of such structures (top up) are already factored in and the loan prices reflects this. For something which is already priced in, and if DBS does come up with a new loan product without this top up, what say you on the credit pricing for such products?
Sometimes, it is important to think a little more deeply in issues and matters. This is not rocket science and neither do you have to be part of the banks credit committee to form a view.
Different people reading the above will naturally have different views and perhaps different response. Everyone can form a view and I agree. I was once told - "Everyone can be a partner of a firm, its all about being a good partner or a bad one".
There is nothing irresponsible in the discussions. We are trying to uncover the truth. As you are not the actual party involved in your mentioned cases, how do you know what are the actual reasons causing the banks to ask for top-up? The involved parties may not be telling you the whole truth (just like those that previously complained to newspapers were not telling the whole truth to the reporters until the truth were uncovered by the banks). As you mentioned, since they are not "credit un-worthy", they can switch to another banks anyway and they had done so even with better rates! So, most important thing for anybody is to keep themselves "credit worthy" and they then don't have to worry about "top-up". So, fact is (and as even supported by your 4 mentioned cases now), there is nothing to worry about property valuation falling below loans amount!
I have seen for myself 4 cases of credit worthy customers who were asked to top-up their loans because their properties' valuation all fell below loan outstanding. If you are just speaking based on the assumption of `why would banks not do business with credit worthy customer?' and that `recent newspapers article say so.', I suggest you stop creating false sense of confidence that may encourage people to over-stretch themselves.
Besides, how many people do you know? Even if you are a loan officer in a bank, does it mean that just because you HAVN'T seen any cases, it represents the entire market?
Today, my staff finally got another bank to grant him a home loan after his previous bank ask him to top up. All 4 cases managed to refinance their mortgage and at rates lower than their previous banks. Thus they are not `credit unworthy'. Therefore banks DO ask people to top-up when valuation drops below loan outstanding. Although I believe its not common practice now, but once it becomes prevalent, it will become `market practice'.
I will continue to retort if I see irresponsible postings that suggest otherwise or give the impression that `banks will not ask people to top-up, as long as they pay up installment monthly and are credit worthy.'
There is nothing irresponsible in the discussions. We are trying to uncover the truth. As you are not the actual party involved in your mentioned cases, how do you know what are the actual reasons causing the banks to ask for top-up? The involved parties may not be telling you the whole truth (just like those that previously complained to newspapers were not telling the whole truth to the reporters until the truth were uncovered by the banks). As you mentioned, since they are not "credit un-worthy", they can switch to another banks anyway and they had done so even with better rates! So, most important thing for anybody is to keep themselves "credit worthy" and they then don't have to worry about "top-up". So, fact is (and as even supported by your 4 mentioned cases now), there is nothing to worry about property valuation falling below loans amount!
lol, you are amazing, still trying to cast doubts on others sharing of experiences (many times, sharing of experiences need not be your own to be true and factual).
first, you claimed that ONLY customers who are not "credit worthy" will be asked to topup. HP65 just tore apart your claim by citing a few real life examples of those who were asked to topup by their bank but were able to secure housing loan from other banks. if they were not credit worthy, why did the other banks extend a loan to them? since they were credit worthy, why did their current bank ask them to topup?
bottomline, buy within your means. why buy if prices are definitely going down? at times like these, only property agents, developers are asking you to buy...even bankers have advised customers not to buy :D
There is nothing irresponsible in the discussions. We are trying to uncover the truth. As you are not the actual party involved in your mentioned cases, how do you know what are the actual reasons causing the banks to ask for top-up? The involved parties may not be telling you the whole truth (just like those that previously complained to newspapers were not telling the whole truth to the reporters until the truth were uncovered by the banks). As you mentioned, since they are not "credit un-worthy", they can switch to another banks anyway and they had done so even with better rates! So, most important thing for anybody is to keep themselves "credit worthy" and they then don't have to worry about "top-up". So, fact is (and as even supported by your 4 mentioned cases now), there is nothing to worry about property valuation falling below loans amount!
3 of them cases approached me to be their guarantor in case they can't find a bank to refinance their cases. And I also personally questioned the bank, in the presence of the concerned parties reasons for the top-ups when valuation drops below loan-outstanding but were offered no concrete reasons except for its `within the loans provision and `regular loan review guidelines procedures to better reflect current market risks'.
End of day, I have seen how 3 families could have been torned apart due to mis-information. The 4th case has the money to top-up but choose not to as a matter of principle. And you want to call this mis-information responsible? Some things are grey, but this is black and white crystal clear to me that banks can and will call for top-ups in the event valuation drops below loan outstanding.
A most excellent post sir. Just to clarify, your 'value below loan outstanding' means:
- $1m property, $800k loan. Now property is worth $700k, loan outstanding $750k. Topup 50k?
Ya since the subject is hot. I have a question too.
When ask to top up. To what level it should be?
To the valuation or to the valuation minus 10/20/30%?
Ha ha ha, the answer to your first question is very simple! - Not every bank is like some banks in USA by extending loan to any Tom, Dick & Harry. Therefore, some banks are willing to except higher risks to get their new deal while others don't and hence are asking for top-up and prepared to lose this perceived "risky" deal.
As regards to the second issue you raised on "why buy if prices are definitely going down? at times like these, only property agents, developers are asking you to buy...even bankers have advised customers not to buy", it is irrelevant to our discussion on "top-up". However, for curosity, may I ask how do you know the property prices are definitely going down? It is amazing that you can make such a strong and confident statement! Are you god? Only god will be so confident to say whether the property price will surely go up or go down in future. Now, who is the one really trying to mislead?
lol, you are amazing, still trying to cast doubts on others sharing of experiences (many times, sharing of experiences need not be your own to be true and factual).
first, you claimed that ONLY customers who are not "credit worthy" will be asked to topup. HP65 just tore apart your claim by citing a few real life examples of those who were asked to topup by their bank but were able to secure housing loan from other banks. if they were not credit worthy, why did the other banks extend a loan to them? since they were credit worthy, why did their current bank ask them to topup?
bottomline, buy within your means. why buy if prices are definitely going down? at times like these, only property agents, developers are asking you to buy...even bankers have advised customers not to buy :D
Yes, there is no dispute that "banks do request for top-up". Probably the controversy is in what constitute them to request for top-up? Some banks have clearly stated they don't request for top-up just because "valuation drops below loan outstanding" but rather they look at the "credit worthy" of the client as a whole. How to judge "credit worthy" vary from bank to bank. It would be good to know more on how they judge on this but I believe we probably can never know the truth unless we are the actual party involved because this will involves knowing a person's true net-worth and spending patterns, etc. (Fact is, I will never release such detail financial info & as such I don't expect people to do so too!).
3 of them cases approached me to be their guarantor in case they can't find a bank to refinance their cases. And I also personally questioned the bank, in the presence of the concerned parties reasons for the top-ups when valuation drops below loan-outstanding but were offered no concrete reasons except for its `within the loans provision and `regular loan review guidelines procedures to better reflect current market risks'.
End of day, I have seen how 3 families could have been torned apart due to mis-information. The 4th case has the money to top-up but choose not to as a matter of principle. And you want to call this mis-information responsible? Some things are grey, but this is black and white crystal clear to me that banks can and will call for top-ups in the event valuation drops below loan outstanding.
wallstreat
09-04-09, 13:46
I have seen for myself 4 cases of credit worthy customers who were asked to top-up their loans because their properties' valuation all fell below loan outstanding. If you are just speaking based on the assumption of `why would banks not do business with credit worthy customer?' and that `recent newspapers article say so.', I suggest you stop creating false sense of confidence that may encourage people to over-stretch themselves.
Besides, how many people do you know? Even if you are a loan officer in a bank, does it mean that just because you HAVN'T seen any cases, it represents the entire market?
Today, my staff finally got another bank to grant him a home loan after his previous bank ask him to top up. All 4 cases managed to refinance their mortgage and at rates lower than their previous banks. Thus they are not `credit unworthy'. Therefore banks DO ask people to top-up when valuation drops below loan outstanding. Although I believe its not common practice now, but once it becomes prevalent, it will become `market practice'.
I will continue to retort if I see irresponsible postings that suggest otherwise or give the impression that `banks will not ask people to top-up, as long as they pay up installment monthly and are credit worthy.'
Able to reveal the names of the banks involved in asking the Top-ups? There is an argument that local banks are more unlikely to ask for top-ups as they have more vested interest becauase they are rooted for the long haul in Singapore.
qwertyuiop
09-04-09, 14:01
Thanks HP65 for sharing your (friends') experience. I'm also interested to know which are the bank/s that have asked your friends for top-up. Please kindly share with the fellow-forumers.
3 of them cases approached me to be their guarantor in case they can't find a bank to refinance their cases. And I also personally questioned the bank, in the presence of the concerned parties reasons for the top-ups when valuation drops below loan-outstanding but were offered no concrete reasons except for its `within the loans provision and `regular loan review guidelines procedures to better reflect current market risks'.
End of day, I have seen how 3 families could have been torned apart due to mis-information. The 4th case has the money to top-up but choose not to as a matter of principle. And you want to call this mis-information responsible? Some things are grey, but this is black and white crystal clear to me that banks can and will call for top-ups in the event valuation drops below loan outstanding.
A most excellent post sir. Just to clarify, your 'value below loan outstanding' means:
- $1m property, $800k loan. Now property is worth $700k, loan outstanding $750k. Topup 50k?
In my discussion with the bank, we were not able to determine the amount to top up as there were dispute between the in-house and 2 external independent valuation (1 of it was my valuer). As the process dragged on, the internal valuer even revised the valuation down-wards by 5% in a matter of 2 week in early March. Maybe the stock market plunge affected the valuation then....but then again they didnt revised the valuation when stocks rebounded in the last 4 weeks since.
Basically we were trying to reason with the bank, look, the monthly payments has been prompt, no change in the financial situation of the parties involved, you are earning good margin spread, why are you pushing good customers away? The exact same reasons that some of you has put forth. They said, sorry, its standard bank policy to review our loan portfolio. I asked, `marked-to-market?', They said no, just std bank procedures.
I was hoping they would say , yes, its due to MTM, and I would tell them to wake up since FASB has since relaxed that rule.
Anyway, I do not want to disclose the name of the bank, as it might implicate my friends and staff. End of the day, just keep some buffer when taking up a mortgage loan and avoid buying when market is hot.
There is no such thing as runaway prices (vs affordability), especially when it comes to properties. End of the day, the market will adjust itself. I have seen it in developing markets like vietnam (few yrs back) and mature markets like UK.
wallstreat
09-04-09, 14:28
In my discussion with the bank, we were not able to determine the amount to top up as there were dispute between the in-house and 2 external independent valuation (1 of it was my valuer). As the process dragged on, the internal valuer even revised the valuation down-wards by 5% in a matter of 2 week in early March. Maybe the stock market plunge affected the valuation then....but then again they didnt revised the valuation when stocks rebounded in the last 4 weeks since.
Basically we were trying to reason with the bank, look, the monthly payments has been prompt, no change in the financial situation of the parties involved, you are earning good margin spread, why are you pushing good customers away? The exact same reasons that some of you has put forth. They said, sorry, its standard bank policy to review our loan portfolio. I asked, `marked-to-market?', They said no, just std bank procedures.
I was hoping they would say , yes, its due to MTM, and I would tell they wake up since FASB has since relaxed that rule.
Anyway, I do not want to disclose the name of the bank, as it might implicate my friends and staff. End of the day, just keep some buffer when taking up a mortgage loan and avoid buying when market is hot.
There is no such thing as runaway prices (vs affordability), especially when it comes to properties. End of the day, the market will adjust itself. I have seen it in developing markets like vietnam (few yrs back) and mature markets like UK.
Can't even disclose whether its local banks or foreign banks?
Ha ha ha, the answer to your first question is very simple! - Not every bank is like some banks in USA by extending loan to any Tom, Dick & Harry. Therefore, some banks are willing to except higher risks to get their new deal while others don't and hence are asking for top-up and prepared to lose this perceived "risky" deal.
As regards to the second issue you raised on "why buy if prices are definitely going down? at times like these, only property agents, developers are asking you to buy...even bankers have advised customers not to buy", it is irrelevant to our discussion on "top-up". However, for curosity, may I ask how do you know the property prices are definitely going down? It is amazing that you can make such a strong and confident statement! Are you god? Only god will be so confident to say whether the property price will surely go up or go down in future. Now, who is the one really trying to mislead?
your first point is utter rubbish as those examples cited already had existing bank loans which they were servicing before being asked to topup. for sure, those banks which extended them those loans when valuations were higher did not think they were any tom dick and harry :rolleyes:
the second point was meant to ruffle your feathers and it worked :rolleyes: since you like to spread misinformation to mislead others into taking any loan without due consideration to future changes.
anyway, its true that bankers from 3 different banks had told me not to buy any property this year although they know from the idle deposits i have with them that i can easily pay for the property without any loan. one banker from a local bank did say that one should buy property anytime if one can afford it - sounds like the govt asking you to spend so that country can claw itself out of recession ;)
to be fair, its possible they are saying that so that i can invest the idle funds with them :D
Can't even disclose whether its local banks or foreign banks?
it really shouldnt matter as there will always be some which are local banks and others which are foreign banks. just try to borrow within one's means and not overstretch.
The reply to your rubbish reply is that it doesn't really matter whether they have existing loans or not. They may have been too lax previously and already loaning to the Tom, Dick & Harry but decided later to tighten their criteria.
I don't understand what you mean by the misinformation you are allegating that I am spreading. What misinformation?
There could be many reasons but the bankers having seen so many rich people before probably think your sum with them is really chicken-feed and ask you better don't risk your coffin money by taking the risks although it is always the case that only with risks than you can get better return. There is no such thing as "free lunch".
your first point is utter rubbish as those examples cited already had existing bank loans which they were servicing before being asked to topup. for sure, those banks which extended them those loans when valuations were higher did not think they were any tom dick and harry :rolleyes:
the second point was meant to ruffle your feathers and it worked :rolleyes: since you like to spread misinformation to mislead others into taking any loan without due consideration to future changes.
anyway, its true that bankers from 3 different banks had told me not to buy any property this year although they know from the idle deposits i have with them that i can easily pay for the property without any loan. one banker from a local bank did say that one should buy property anytime if one can afford it - sounds like the govt asking you to spend so that country can claw itself out of recession ;)
to be fair, its possible they are saying that so that i can invest the idle funds with them :D
The reply to your rubbish reply is that it doesn't really matter whether they have existing loans or not. They may have been too lax previously and already loaning to the Tom, Dick & Harry but decided later to tighten their criteria.
I don't understand what you mean by the misinformation you are allegating that I am spreading. What misinformation?
There could be many reasons but the bankers having seen so many rich people before probably think your sum with them is really chicken-feed and ask you better don't risk your coffin money by taking the risks although it is always the case that only with risks than you can get better return. There is no such thing as "free lunch".
lol allegating? :doh:
better keep your own coffin money safe :rolleyes:
Collected my keys yesterday at the lawyers, and she said that yes - topups are happening and that there are many cases at her firm. here are some of the common characteristics of the topup cases at her firm:
- bought at high in 2007/2008
- mostly $2m and above
- TOP not till end 2009 or later. this affects disbursement.
- banks are not 'asking for TOP ups' per se - they are just refusing to disburse the rest after re-valuation
She said it doesn't matter what the profile of the customer is. As long as the gap between valuation and purchase price is too great, the bank can likely withhold disbursement.
She also said that once 100% disbursed and good repayment schedule, 'you'll be quite safe'
Thanks for the valuable information. This again is in line with what I was told: "As long as you pay your instalment promptly, the bank will not request for top-up even if valuation falls below loan quantum". (Need to quantify that this is for 100% disinbursed case).
Not sure why some people are still spreading rumour that "banks will ask for top-up if valuation falls below loan quantum"? There may be hidden agenda? Just like in some forum, people are saying that prime luxury property prices will fall to $400 psf and keep asking people don't buy property until property prices fall to $400 psf blah blah blah. They are hoping that nobody will buy property so that the price will collapse for them to buy cheap cheap? :doh:
Collected my keys yesterday at the lawyers, and she said that yes - topups are happening and that there are many cases at her firm. here are some of the common characteristics of the topup cases at her firm:
- bought at high in 2007/2008
- mostly $2m and above
- TOP not till end 2009 or later. this affects disbursement.
- banks are not 'asking for TOP ups' per se - they are just refusing to disburse the rest after re-valuation
She said it doesn't matter what the profile of the customer is. As long as the gap between valuation and purchase price is too great, the bank can likely withhold disbursement.
She also said that once 100% disbursed and good repayment schedule, 'you'll be quite safe'
She might be referring to my case where i bought close to launch price, that's why 'should be safe' (coz mathematically due to deposit, i have 30% devaluation to go before a topup is necessary). i can't say the same for those who bought 07/08 and are now staring at 20-30% valuation declines.
Thanks for the valuable information. This again is in line with what I was told: "As long as you pay your instalment promptly, the bank will not request for top-up even if valuation falls below loan quantum". (Need to quantify that this is for 100% disinbursed case).
Not sure why some people are still spreading rumour that "banks will ask for top-up if valuation falls below loan quantum"? There may be hidden agenda? Just like in some forum, people are saying that prime luxury property prices will fall to $400 psf and keep asking people don't buy property until property prices fall to $400 psf blah blah blah. They are hoping that nobody will buy property so that the price will collapse for them to buy cheap cheap? :doh:
new2mondrian
17-04-09, 11:45
Anyone of you saw the advert on last Sat's papers? Rivergate 2-bedder (1055sqft) asking for $985k cos owner is migrating. This works out to abt $930psf as being the owner's ASKING price.
Since there are so many Rivergate owners here, anyone bagged this deal? Very curious as to how much it was eventually sold for. :)
new2mondrian
17-04-09, 11:56
Anyone of you saw the advert on last Sat's papers? Rivergate 2-bedder (1055sqft) asking for $985k cos owner is migrating. This works out to abt $930psf as being the owner's ASKING price.
Since there are so many Rivergate owners here, anyone bagged this deal? Very curious as to how much it was eventually sold for. :)
Oops... not "owners", BUT aspiring-owners. heheheee....
proud owner
17-04-09, 13:00
Oops... not "owners", BUT aspiring-owners. heheheee....
so many people here say they WILL BUY RG .. and that 1000 is already a DAMN good price ... if at 933 psf i am sure it has been sold ....
or has it not ?
so many people here say they WILL BUY RG .. and that 1000 is already a DAMN good price ... if at 933 psf i am sure it has been sold ....
or has it not ?
930psf? Any agents can PM me, interested ~ :cool:
new2mondrian
17-04-09, 15:09
930psf? Any agents can PM me, interested ~ :cool:
I think the unit was sold. not sure though. I still have the agent contacts in my hp. wanted to call on Sunday but forgot all abt it till now.
but anyway, hubby and I am not interested. rather invest the funds in other instruments than property. For those interested, here are the agent's contacts: 9122-8535. Cannot remember the name though.
proud owner
17-04-09, 15:10
930psf? Any agents can PM me, interested ~ :cool:
someone 'heard/saw' in paper that a 2 bedder going at around 933 psf owner migrating wo ... ?
strange that got such thing but NOT a single agent in this forum commented ...
proud owner
17-04-09, 15:12
someone 'heard/saw' in paper that a 2 bedder going at around 933 psf owner migrating wo ... ?
strange that got such thing but NOT a single agent in this forum commented ...
becos the RG agents have more seller on hand than buyers ?
so when theres a 933 psf unit on sale ..all agents disappeared ? becos cannot explain to the exclusive rights seller clients ?
new2mondrian
17-04-09, 15:32
someone 'heard/saw' in paper that a 2 bedder going at around 933 psf owner migrating wo ... ?
strange that got such thing but NOT a single agent in this forum commented ...
If u are interested, the advert was in Sat's 11 Apr Classifieds, under district 9,10 private apts for sale section. Hence shd be pretty easy to find.
The hp number attached at the end of the advert was what I posted above. The listing did not mention whether it was the owner or the agent advertising. Go take a look yourself. But agree that the price is very attractive.
I am just curious as to how much that unit was eventually sold for. Anyone knows, plse let me know. Thanks in advance! :)
qwertyuiop
17-04-09, 16:34
Saw that listing too. >28 floor. Honestly, that price is too good to be true. It's not even difficult to find buyers if they listed it at 1.1mil. But anyways, I have a feeling that this is a hoax as nobody answers that line since saturday, or maybe it had been sold :)
If u are interested, the advert was in Sat's 11 Apr Classifieds, under district 9,10 private apts for sale section. Hence shd be pretty easy to find.
The hp number attached at the end of the advert was what I posted above. The listing did not mention whether it was the owner or the agent advertising. Go take a look yourself. But agree that the price is very attractive.
I am just curious as to how much that unit was eventually sold for. Anyone knows, plse let me know. Thanks in advance! :)
tried calling but no reply :D think posted in error. maybe left out a 1 in front or a potential buyer trying to shake the sellers...doesn't cost much to post the advert.
I wish to purchase a unit at RG or watermark @ $1000 psf for own stay but was told by agents price is unrealistic. But I think River Valley area will soon be swamped with condos in the next 2 years so prices should stabilise or drop. TOP in 2009 and 2010 are Tribeca, One Jervois, The Inspira, Trillium... Saw one unit of watermark sold for $736 psf (1711 sqft unit sold for $1.26 mil) in March on URA website. Is RG really selling like hot cakes, like what the agents claim? Am very confused... How to buy with prices climbing again?:confused:
I am waiting to see the caveats lodged for rivergate in April. people can make lots of claims without backing up the information
I am waiting to see the caveats lodged for rivergate in April. people can make lots of claims without backing up the information
just for Mar 09
Project Name Street Name Type No. of Units Price($) Land/
Floor Area (Sqft) Unit Price ($psf) Date of Option Exercised / Sales Agreement Signed
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 1,854,495 1,539 1,205 Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 2,118,000 1,496 1,416 Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 1,967,650 1,711 1,150 Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 1,239,600 1,033 1,200 Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 1,250,000 1,033 1,210 Mar-09
just for Mar 09
Project Name Street Name Type No. of Units Price($) Land/
Floor Area (Sqft) Unit Price ($psf) Date of Option Exercised / Sales Agreement Signed
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 1,854,495 1,539 1,205 Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 2,118,000 1,496 1,416 Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 1,967,650 1,711 1,150 Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 1,239,600 1,033 1,200 Mar-09
RIVERGATE (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=RIVERGATE&street_name=ROBERTSON%20QUAY&property_type_code=04%27%29;) ROBERTSON QUAY Apartment 1 1,250,000 1,033 1,210 Mar-09
I wonder if any guidance can be given on the nature of the caveats above. Are these caveats reflective of sub-sale transactions that was done in March 2009 ? Or, are these transactions an ordered filing of the caveat (so as to secure the bank's security interest as part of the loan (disbursement) process) as part of a bank's financial accomodation for the original buyers (launch purchases) loan drawdown now ??
any agent bro here can enlighten me how come there's always quite some discrepancy between the data from SISV-Realink and URA data?
I have seen caveats lodged for other properties in April, but none for Rivergate yet in this month. Interesting, I guess resale demand for Rivergate is pretty low at current prices.
Where are all the sales that supposedly happened?
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https://www.citigold.citibank.com.sg/global_images/cgol.gif
Citigold is pleased to invite our clients to the launch event of the Skyline 360° at St. Thomas Walk.
Located at one of the most sought after locations in District 9, this is a development targeted at discerning purchasers. Designed to provide maximum visual impact, each unit allows a fascinating view of the city. Walking distance to Orchard Road and Somerset, it offers residents an urban lifestyle that is unmatched.
Event Details:
Date : . Tuesday, 20 October 2009
Time : . 6.30pm to 8.30pm
Venue: HSR Building
........... 3 Lorong 6 Toa Payoh
........... #01-01 Singapore 319378
Why not Skyline 360° @ St Thomas Walk?
The bigger the area the higher the PSF? :scared-4:
bargain hunter
21-10-09, 11:02
i think that's because the 3 bedder is unusually large even for a luxury 3 bedder while the 4 bedder is ok sized for a luxury 4 bedder. :)
The bigger the area the higher the PSF? :scared-4:
the lap pool only 34m ah ??? :(
bargain hunter
22-10-09, 10:31
checked out the area yesterday. its a small site beside the upcoming mother of all studios, the 237 unit Espada. that area is going to be one congested concrete jungle supported by 2 single lane roads. in future, Espada, St Thomas Suites and Skyline 360 will all use this road. Not to forget older condos like Grange Heights and Sam Kiang Mansion and other boutique condos. Go out to Kiliney Road, more single lane traffic with One Devonshire and Residences at Kiliney. :)
Skyline 360 named for its 360 degree view is not very apt it seems. In its view you will see Skypark, Espada, One Devonshire and in future Bukit Sembawang's en-bloc, Airview Towers.
the lap pool only 34m ah ??? :(
Why not Skyline 360° @ St Thomas Walk?
https://www.citigold.citibank.com.sg/global_images/cgol.gif
Citigold is pleased to invite our clients to the launch event of the Skyline 360° at St. Thomas Walk.
Located at one of the most sought after locations in District 9, this is a development targeted at discerning purchasers. Designed to provide maximum visual impact, each unit allows a fascinating view of the city. Walking distance to Orchard Road and Somerset, it offers residents an urban lifestyle that is unmatched.
Event Details:
Date : . Tuesday, 20 October 2009
Time : . 6.30pm to 8.30pm
Venue: HSR Building
........... 3 Lorong 6 Toa Payoh
........... #01-01 Singapore 319378
Is Skyline 360° @ St Thomas Walk selling now?
Heard skyline360 sold 20+ units on Sat.
Price up from $1800 Psf???
Anyone can confirm the news? Thks.
Is Skyline 360° at St Thomas Walk selling now?
Skyline 360° at St Thomas Walk is selling now.
In fact, it has a nëw hïgh of $2,168 psf in January 2010!
Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of January 2010
Project Name ....................... Locality . Units Sold To Date . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
Skyline 360° at St Thomas Walk . CCR ....... 22 ........................ 18 .......................... 2,168 ........... 1,935 ........... 1,786
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