View Full Version : The Está (D15, Freehold, MCL Land)
This scavenger says chill PN and unregistered user.
Honestly, everyone wants to benefit by getting a bargain. If today you can buy a place for 700 psf instead of 900psf, you honestly tell me you will not want to do so? Pls don't act self righteous.
Secondly, I believe when it was the sellers market, people like us all just kept our mouths shut. Since the market is changing, i believe we are entitled to one or two rants. If you don't agree with us, then just leave us alone.
I believe we are see-ing the sub-prime situation in Singapore, because we are so tagged to the US market. But hey, you don't know me. I might be one of the landlords shaking in my boots now... Just because we spend a few minutes a day contributing our 2 cents in this thread, don't make us experts. But then again, we have never forced our opinion down anyone's throats.
If you are one of those "investors" who have bought at the wrong time. I do understand you are peeved or even worried about the current situation. But just as the investors have worked hard, people like us SCAVENGERS have also worked hard to save up during the boom times so we can buy during the slump. Our motives are justified. So please don't bash us or paint us in the light as if we are the evil people.
Anyway HAPPY NIU YEAR!! To all scavengers hope you get a SUPER GOOD BARGAIN. For the investors, I salute you who are trying to survive in this hard times. :cheers6:
Following my post in One Amber, I express my offer at the Esta post also.
I am offering 700 psf for a 1561 or 1593 unit at Esta. For those agents serious in doing the deal, please PM me.
I believe this is primarily what this forum was set up to do. To bring buyers, sellers and agents together. So again,
those who want to insult me, bash me, scold me please do so in the thread and leave my inbox open for those who seriously wanna do business.
Thanks! :cool:
Wow URA states that in Jan unit selling at $900 PSF!! Esta has holding power :)
Geylang OKT
24-01-09, 06:44
In a lowering tide.... all ships go down :D
In a lowering tide.... all ships go down :D
When the tides recedes, you will find out who are the naked swimmers (investors/developers with no holding power).
These naked swimmers are the one most worrying as they will start the firesale.. And the fire will spread ...you just need one fire...
and it will be like the romance of the 3 kingdom...
火烧连环船。
Geylang OKT
24-01-09, 14:05
When the tides recedes, you will find out who are the naked swimmers (investors/developers with no holding power).
These naked swimmers are the one most worrying as they will start the firesale.. And the fire will spread ...you just need one fire...
and it will be like the romance of the 3 kingdom...
火烧连环船。
Hmm.... threads are rather quiet these couple of days... anyway I'm going to catch a movie with wifey soon... it's a toss up between Red Cliff 2 and The Wedding. Happy Chinese New Year! :D
Geylang OKT
24-01-09, 14:06
Anybody stayed at Rose Gardens before? Any sentimental or nostalgic thots on it? :D
Following my post in One Amber, I express my offer at the Esta post also.
I am offering 700 psf for a 1561 or 1593 unit at Esta. For those agents serious in doing the deal, please PM me.
I believe this is primarily what this forum was set up to do. To bring buyers, sellers and agents together. So again,
those who want to insult me, bash me, scold me please do so in the thread and leave my inbox open for those who seriously wanna do business.
Thanks! :cool:
Haha... based on your px your queue is behind me :) My understanding from industry people is the days of $700+psf units are gone as Owners have gotten loan and rather rent out below mkt rate maybe slight -ve cash flow every mth for 2yrs than take hit lose bigger $ straight. At least after 2 yrs can gamble on recovery in px. Even $800+ psf units getting fewer....
No prob JC. I dun mind standing behind you. Hope you find the apt you are looking for. If you don't mind can you share what you think is a fair price for a unit at Esta in these times?
well said.
This scavenger says chill PN and unregistered user.
Honestly, everyone wants to benefit by getting a bargain. If today you can buy a place for 700 psf instead of 900psf, you honestly tell me you will not want to do so? Pls don't act self righteous.
Secondly, I believe when it was the sellers market, people like us all just kept our mouths shut. Since the market is changing, i believe we are entitled to one or two rants. If you don't agree with us, then just leave us alone.
I believe we are see-ing the sub-prime situation in Singapore, because we are so tagged to the US market. But hey, you don't know me. I might be one of the landlords shaking in my boots now... Just because we spend a few minutes a day contributing our 2 cents in this thread, don't make us experts. But then again, we have never forced our opinion down anyone's throats.
If you are one of those "investors" who have bought at the wrong time. I do understand you are peeved or even worried about the current situation. But just as the investors have worked hard, people like us SCAVENGERS have also worked hard to save up during the boom times so we can buy during the slump. Our motives are justified. So please don't bash us or paint us in the light as if we are the evil people.
Anyway HAPPY NIU YEAR!! To all scavengers hope you get a SUPER GOOD BARGAIN. For the investors, I salute you who are trying to survive in this hard times. :cheers6:
Think about this. The price is already down by 30%. How much more do you think it should goes down to? Is the launch price your ideal or lower than launch price? You hoping for 70’s or 90’s price?
If property price plunge down to 300-500psf for mass and midrange market, and 1000+psf for high end, what will happen? Imagine the psf is less than half of the original price.
Every single home owner who has purchased a condo, regardless of whether he buys to stay or speculate will suffer. How the bank will react? If bank ask for top up, how many home owner (genuine and speculator) can afford to do this? How many house will be auctioned if this happen? How many friends/relatives of yours will be affected?
I’m quite disappointed to see so many posts here talking about affordability for condo but not facing the reality and look at the impact as a whole. Selfishness is the key word here. People only think about themselves. Fair enough as it’s normal human behavior but there is a limit to it.
Are you sure you can’t afford a condo with today’s property price? A few months back, some mentioned that if the price down from high to 700-800psf, he will buy. What does this tell you? It’s means that they can afford it. Today, they want to wait until the price goes down to 500-600psf. When it is at 500psf, he wants it to be 400psf. It’s obvious isn’t it? 700psf or 500psf is not the issue. Selfishness and greed rule an individual in today’s world. There are many affordable condos in suburb area with nice living environment. What’s wrong with living there? If you buy one condo in prime district, you can 2 or more in the suburb.
If you need to live in orchard road condo or other prime areas, work hard for it. Why want to live a better life at the expense of others? Is this morally right? What happened to 20years of education?
Government has to come in and help in these circumstances. Either you try to stabilize it or you will see another Singapore version of sub-prime crisis happening in. Is this what you wished for?
BTW, Chinese New Year is just around the corner. I wish everyone a prosperous and happy OX year. Take a break from property watch (me too). Hopefully we will see a rapid recovery of economy as a whole.
Singapore property prices is a bubble. It has gone up too fast in such a short time. Thus it will fall back harder and will take a long time to recover. Without the DPS, the property prices will never come back. Logically 400psf to 500psf will be the price for the property in sg given the annual income of the middle group. No one ask people to buy house during high prices nor ask the bank to lend money during these times. It is greed and folly that causes it. Why must we bail them out? Just be prepared to suffer big time if u buy at high prices.
Singapore property prices is a bubble. It has gone up too fast in such a short time. Thus it will fall back harder and will take a long time to recover. Without the DPS, the property prices will never come back. Logically 400psf to 500psf will be the price for the property in sg given the annual income of the middle group. No one ask people to buy house during high prices nor ask the bank to lend money during these times. It is greed and folly that causes it. Why must we bail them out? Just be prepared to suffer big time if u buy at high prices.
Haha... You r so funny... 400psf to 500psf can't even get u a high flr HDB in Marine Parade... Which part of the country are u staying at?
No prob JC. I dun mind standing behind you. Hope you find the apt you are looking for. If you don't mind can you share what you think is a fair price for a unit at Esta in these times?
Hi bro "fair price" is very subjective. IF buying for investment, rental yield, future px appreciation etc. will come into play. IF for own stay, frankly speaking i think no one can fault me regardless of what px i pay, as long as i feel the total utility i derive from the unit outweigh the cost. Eg. I personally enjoy the inward facing pool view balcony at living units and am willing to pay more for such units. But the problem is i think no one is selling with VP for the type n facing n level i am looking at.... No more supply in the mkt... Will waiting help? Would i be happier for IMHO less desirable units at a cheaper px? I am not sure....
If Dakota Residences D14 LH99 is transacting at $900+ to $1k+, I don't see why D15 FH Amber area LAND is worth less. Maybe i may not buy at the cheapest px for the unit i want, but at least i know that in the mid to long term the upside potential is there for Esta.
Sometimes i ask myself, so it is worthwhile to consider One Amber since the px is around the same now but maybe cheaper than Esta in future? Well i don't know. But I personally think that One Amber px will fall as it is is a highly speculative project n the layout is poor, which is a minus point for a lot of home buyers including myself :)
Good luck bro :)
Geylang OKT
25-01-09, 06:41
Dakota Residences is crap :D
Dakota Residences is crap :D
its plus point is next to future MRT...
Is Dakota Residences next to the future MRT exactly? Cos I have been to the LTA websites but it doesn't really show the exact location of the MRT station.
To bro jc, honestly, who will pay 900psf for a leasehold at Dakota today? Like I put in my earlier posts, we can only react to how the market moves as we are individual buyers and not developers who can potentially move the market. Hence, if you are prepared to pay higher than 700psf, I honestly believe you can find something before me.
For the supply, alot of the units are not selling, but you look at their ads in the rental section of the classifieds. Almost 50% or more available in the rental market. So give it another 3 months when ppl cannot rent their apts out they might consider selling (refer to discussion on rental mkt in Singapore.) Currently there are more 3 rm apts for sale than 4 rm at esta.
I do agree that amber has a rather lousy layout, and that's why i am still focusing on Esta more than One Amber. BUT!! if can buy one amber at a steal, then layout can be overcome by renovation and use of the available space.
CNY over, market will start to react. so all the serious buyers should watch with intent already.
Geylang OKT
27-01-09, 20:14
Frankly, The Esta and One Amber will not sell well at current prices. Don't forget that The Seaview is like a ghost town. And just across the road you have more developments up for sale.
Also, the upcoming new project fka Rose Gardens in the immediate vicinity - just a few hundred metres right of the first two projects will bring in several hundreds of units more in the near future. The Aristo@Amber has since also fallen from $1700psf to $900psf.
For students of Economics, you know what will happen when supply far exceeds demand. :D
VIPCLUB2004
28-01-09, 13:37
Frankly, The Esta and One Amber will not sell well at current prices. Don't forget that The Seaview is like a ghost town. And just across the road you have more developments up for sale.
Also, the upcoming new project fka Rose Gardens in the immediate vicinity - just a few hundred metres right of the first two projects will bring in several hundreds of units more in the near future. The Aristo@Amber has since also fallen from $1700psf to $900psf.
For students of Economics, you know what will happen when supply far exceeds demand. :D
Lower house price will help improve the quality of living --- save a big amount of $$ so that could retire early and enjoy life, better retire before 50 :D
East Lover
28-01-09, 13:45
Singapore property prices is a bubble. It has gone up too fast in such a short time. Thus it will fall back harder and will take a long time to recover. Without the DPS, the property prices will never come back. Logically 400psf to 500psf will be the price for the property in sg given the annual income of the middle group. No one ask people to buy house during high prices nor ask the bank to lend money during these times. It is greed and folly that causes it. Why must we bail them out? Just be prepared to suffer big time if u buy at high prices.
Agree. Logically 400psf to 500psf will be the price for the property in sg given the annual income of the middle group.
In fact, the top 20 (81st - 90th) is only $3900 per household member per month, that's $187200 per annue for a standard 4-persons-family. $700K - $800K is comfortable price range for an standard 4 bedder unit in east coast area.
By the way, less than 10 years old LH cond in D16-D18 already drop to that level now. Let's hope we can see that logical price range for Esta in this year... :ashamed1:
East Lover
28-01-09, 14:09
Frankly, The Esta and One Amber will not sell well at current prices. Don't forget that The Seaview is like a ghost town. And just across the road you have more developments up for sale.
Also, the upcoming new project fka Rose Gardens in the immediate vicinity - just a few hundred metres right of the first two projects will bring in several hundreds of units more in the near future. The Aristo@Amber has since also fallen from $1700psf to $900psf.
For students of Economics, you know what will happen when supply far exceeds demand. :D
Just happened to visit PropertyGuru, there are 105 Units for Rental?! :doh:
While quarter of entire 400 units put for rental, will it be a typical supply far exceeds demand? :beats-me-man:
Geylang OKT
28-01-09, 17:34
Just happened to visit PropertyGuru, there are 105 Units for Rental?! :doh:
While quarter of entire 400 units put for rental, will it be a typical supply far exceeds demand? :beats-me-man:
Normally, at any one time, at most 5 to 8 units tops up for rent in a high density project. :banghead: :scared-1:
Normally, at any one time, at most 5 to 8 units tops up for rent in a high density project. :banghead: :scared-1:
Yup. i remember last time signature park when first started working i wanted to rent back in 2002, at best about 5-6 units available for viewing, somemore must compete with pple. and 2002 was just only starting to recover from 9/11
don be naive la, one unit=20 agents marketing for lease la....
Anyone knows how much is the maint fee?
How many Carpark lots?
Size of the Land?
Ceiling Hgt of the unit?
Monthly maintenance is ard $380 for a 4 bedder. No. of carparks = No of units at Esta. Last known is 20% of the people moving into Esta don't drive, so there should be enough lots for people who visit you during the weekends.
I believe there are many hopeful brudders out there trying to keep the market up with their upbeat comments, but nothing beats fact. From Dec 08 when i saw ppl offer 880psf for esta and 850 psf for one amber, to Jan 09 before CNY ppl offer 850 psf for esta and 799psf for one amber there is only one conclusion, unless world economy gets a viagra boost within the next 3 mths, we will continue to see a similar sub-prime situation in Singapore.
I dare take a poll in this thread, how many will buy at 800 psf this month VS how many will wait till it drops below 700 psf.
I personally will wait and continue to do this....:47:
Geylang OKT
28-01-09, 23:06
Hehee! :cheers4:
Monthly maintenance is ard $380 for a 4 bedder. No. of carparks = No of units at Esta. Last known is 20% of the people moving into Esta don't drive, so there should be enough lots for people who visit you during the weekends.
I believe there are many hopeful brudders out there trying to keep the market up with their upbeat comments, but nothing beats fact. From Dec 08 when i saw ppl offer 880psf for esta and 850 psf for one amber, to Jan 09 before CNY ppl offer 850 psf for esta and 799psf for one amber there is only one conclusion, unless world economy gets a viagra boost within the next 3 mths, we will continue to see a similar sub-prime situation in Singapore.
I dare take a poll in this thread, how many will buy at 800 psf this month VS how many will wait till it drops below 700 psf.
I personally will wait and continue to do this....:47:
Actually, it depend on the how many bedder, I don't mind paying $800psf for a high floor 2 bedder for esta or one amber.
Actually, it depend on the how many bedder, I don't mind paying $800psf for a high floor 2 bedder for esta or one amber.
that budget gets u much more in the current market... just have to look around....
hayata1972
29-01-09, 08:41
that budget gets u much more in the current market... just have to look around....
Why not look around little india's City Square Residences as well? After all certain brothers swear by that location.:D
Monthly maintenance is ard $380 for a 4 bedder. No. of carparks = No of units at Esta. Last known is 20% of the people moving into Esta don't drive, so there should be enough lots for people who visit you during the weekends.
I believe there are many hopeful brudders out there trying to keep the market up with their upbeat comments, but nothing beats fact. From Dec 08 when i saw ppl offer 880psf for esta and 850 psf for one amber, to Jan 09 before CNY ppl offer 850 psf for esta and 799psf for one amber there is only one conclusion, unless world economy gets a viagra boost within the next 3 mths, we will continue to see a similar sub-prime situation in Singapore.
I dare take a poll in this thread, how many will buy at 800 psf this month VS how many will wait till it drops below 700 psf.
I personally will wait and continue to do this....:47:
I really doubt these people will buy even if the price should fall to $600psf. Talk only, but no money. Or money so tight, must think a million times. Plus no guts to be different. When the property market turns, these people still won't buy because they missed out when price was low and can no longer bring themselves to buy at a higher price. That's why in any country, 80% of the population will forever be average while 20% of the population hold 80% of the country's wealth.
I really doubt these people will buy even if the price should fall to $600psf. Talk only, but no money. Or money so tight, must think a million times. Plus no guts to be different. When the property market turns, these people still won't buy because they missed out when price was low and can no longer bring themselves to buy at a higher price. That's why in any country, 80% of the population will forever be average while 20% of the population hold 80% of the country's wealth.
yes, in 2007/2008 those who had 'guts to be different are now struggling'. now the tables have turned. it is us kiasu 20% who so called 'missed the boat' who have the liquidity today, while those with 'guts' who are overcommitted.
in that light, i'm kinda glad in 2007/2008 i was a spineless coward :tongue3:
East Lover
29-01-09, 09:35
I really doubt these people will buy even if the price should fall to $600psf. Talk only, but no money. Or money so tight, must think a million times. Plus no guts to be different. When the property market turns, these people still won't buy because they missed out when price was low and can no longer bring themselves to buy at a higher price. That's why in any country, 80% of the population will forever be average while 20% of the population hold 80% of the country's wealth.
Hello Miow, I know you are one of the Esta Owners, maybe you are those first hand owners bought at $600++ psf, or second hand above $1000 psf, but neither case should allow you to laugh at people who missed the first boat. How do you know they are not richer than you? :p
Nevertheless, there are many potential buyers here, we can afford $800psf, even $900psf, but the question is: why shall we pay more if we can wait for a much cheaper deal?
By the way, if based on our recent computation, the comfortable price for the top 80% is only $800K, $600psf is already 1mil for a 4 bedder in Esta... :scared-5:
yes, in 2007/2008 those who had 'guts to be different are now struggling'. now the tables have turned. it is us kiasu 20% who so called 'missed the boat' who have the liquidity today, while those with 'guts' who are overcommitted.
in that light, i'm kinda glad in 2007/2008 i was a spineless coward :tongue3:
There are some who have no guts every year, not just in 2007/08.
I really doubt these people will buy even if the price should fall to $600psf. Talk only, but no money. Or money so tight, must think a million times. Plus no guts to be different. When the property market turns, these people still won't buy because they missed out when price was low and can no longer bring themselves to buy at a higher price. That's why in any country, 80% of the population will forever be average while 20% of the population hold 80% of the country's wealth.
At least these 80%, while they may not be rich, they won't face financial difficulties. And while they may not be the top 20%, I believe they can still be in the upper 30-50%.
However, those so-called `dare to be different' 20%, are not the people who make money out of speculating properties. They are gamblers who after making easy couple of $hundreds, will surely plow the profits back in greed in the hope to earn more. And they are also the same stubborn bulls who still try to convience people now to buy their hot potatoes as they suddenly see their easily gotten profits being stuck in higher px properties. In time to come, these people may even be worse off as they usually do not have the ability to hold any properties to begin with. Easy come, easy go. Natural law of things.
The true 20/80 rule thus applies to the true business man, not your speculators. Its a myth people can become rich so easily from properties. History has shown there are more casulties and victims from past property boom/bust than people who made it rich.
There are some who have no guts every year, not just in 2007/08.
oh gosh, your vile remarks is actually gonna convince me and others to become 'brave' and plunge into property now!!!
yeah rite
not everyone that doesn't buy now is poor, you never know who you talk to :tsk-tsk:
Property_Owner
29-01-09, 09:48
yes, in 2007/2008 those who had 'guts to be different are now struggling'. now the tables have turned. it is us kiasu 20% who so called 'missed the boat' who have the liquidity today, while those with 'guts' who are overcommitted.
in that light, i'm kinda glad in 2007/2008 i was a spineless coward :tongue3:
2009??????
2009??????
if prices drop to fair values, i'll stop being spineless, and be a brave boy like miow sez.
what to do, i'm bloody poor
There are some who have no guts every year, not just in 2007/08.
People who use their guts to buy is as wise as one who use the ass to think. I prefer to use my brains to buy. I dun even use my heart to buy properties. I use my brains and vision to see beyond the present state or condition of a property and this maxim has served me well. Guts? Only good enough for eating.
East Lover
29-01-09, 09:53
People who use their guts to buy is as wise as one who use the ass to think. I prefer to use my brains to buy. I dun even use my heart to buy properties. I use my brains and vision to see beyond the present state or condition of a property and this maxim has served me well. Guts? Only good enough for eating.
Well say! :spliff:
People who use their guts to buy is as wise as one who use the ass to think.
miow...
Property_Owner
29-01-09, 09:57
if prices drop to fair values, i'll stop being spineless, and be a brave boy like miow sez.
what to do, i'm bloody poor
When do you think it will be rock bottom? Lucky for me I had sold my 2 Esta units at e peak. Current 1 unit left and it's rented out. This unit I'm keeping for long team investment.
thomastansb
29-01-09, 10:06
Why bother with him... He must have been the one who bought at 1.1k/1.2k psf? Hahaha. Or even 1300psf. Of course now kpkb. He use guts but we use brains better. After all, the richest men (Buffet, Bill gates) on earth use their brains, not guts. We don't see bill gates writing programs with his guts. Buffet will do his analysis deeply (read his bibiography, Mr. guts) with his brains before buying.
So the bottom line, we should buy within the fair value of 750 - 850 for now. Maybe next few months, the fair value is 700 - 800 or 1000 - 1100 but who knows. Now the fair value is 750 - 850. Anything more than that, you are using your guts to think. Less than that, you can be the next buffet.
Well say! :spliff:
People who use their guts to buy is as wise as one who use the ass to think.
miow...
Well say! :spliff:
People who use their guts to buy is as wise as one who use the ass to think.
miow...
I guess what I said must have some truth since it drew so many violent counter arguments. I must have touched on a sensitive nerve.
I wasn't looking down on anyone. I have a friend who has $1m sitting in his ordinary CPF account, but he refuses to buy a condo as he thinks it's a frivolous expenditure. All I meant was there are always opportunities. End of the day, it depends on the person to capitalise on these opportunities. Singapore had at least 3 (if not 4) recessions over the last 10 years. Some would have view these as opportunities. Others would have viewed them as risk. It depends on a person's risk-reward attitude. Each of us makes his/her decision and bear the consequences. If prices are going to go down, they are going to do down. But if they ain't going to reach your desired level, they ain't. Only time will tell. It is a fact that some of us will never act no matter what the price.
Don't kid yourself. Successful businessmen also trade on opportunities. Successful businessmen are entreprenuers until they are found out, then they are crooks....
When do you think it will be rock bottom? Lucky for me I had sold my 2 Esta units at e peak. Current 1 unit left and it's rented out. This unit I'm keeping for long team investment.
well done dude! honestly i don't know what's the bottom. UBS/CITI/CCRL all say a further 20% correction this year. which means property might go back to 2005/2006 levels. which means:
Landed: $400psf
Apartment status <2yrs old: $500psf
Condo status: $600psf
personally my trigger point is about $500-600psf for apartment status or sub-condo status - i prefer those nice cozy types to big ones. I'm the shy type, too many people in the pool or gym i won't use one :)
Esta,OA,TSV are price indicators for D15. They kinda set the benchmark for all other property values in the vicinity and that's the only reason why i'm tracking their prices.
in 4Q08, OA prices were about $950k asking. In Jan 09, OA prices are about $850 asking. I believe in Feb, we will start to look at $750psf.
if the economy continues this way, $600psf honestly isn't that far off.
Esta simply because of rental yield and TOP status can be priced about 10% above OA
thomastansb
29-01-09, 10:14
Are you one of those who bought Aristo @ 1700 psf or Esta @ 1300 psf? If so, too bad.. Bought Aristo in June 2008 = 2 Aristo now. Got guts or foolish? You decide. Or maybe you are rich, got money to waste.
I really doubt these people will buy even if the price should fall to $600psf. Talk only, but no money. Or money so tight, must think a million times. Plus no guts to be different. When the property market turns, these people still won't buy because they missed out when price was low and can no longer bring themselves to buy at a higher price. That's why in any country, 80% of the population will forever be average while 20% of the population hold 80% of the country's wealth.
thomastansb
29-01-09, 10:22
Not really. If you start laughing at a handicap, you will draw the same or even more attention.
You mentioned entrepreneurs. I am sure they do their fair share of researches. So now, home buyers have done their researches and found out property will drop another 10-20% or even 30-40% in some areas. Will they plunge in now? Likewise, entrepreneurs will not venture into some money losing business.. Well, unless the entrepreneurs think with their guts?
I guess what I said must have some truth since it drew so many violent counter arguments. I must have touched on a sensitive nerve.
I wasn't looking down on anyone. I have a friend who has $1m sitting in his ordinary CPF account, but he refuses to buy a condo as he thinks it's a frivolous expenditure. All I meant was there are always opportunities. End of the day, it depends on the person to capitalise on these opportunities. Singapore had at least 3 (if not 4) recessions over the last 10 years. Some would have view these as opportunities. Others would have viewed them as risk. It depends on a person's risk-reward attitude. Each of us makes his/her decision and bear the consequences. If prices are going to go down, they are going to do down. But if they ain't going to reach your desired level, they ain't. Only time will tell. It is a fact that some of us will never act no matter what the price.
Don't kid yourself. Successful businessmen also trade on opportunities. Successful businessmen are entreprenuers until they are found out, then they are crooks....
Not really. If you start laughing at a handicap, you will draw the same or even more attention.
You mentioned entrepreneurs. I am sure they do their fair share of researches. So now, home buyers have done their researches and found out property will drop another 10-20% or even 30-40% in some areas. Will they plunge in now? Likewise, entrepreneurs will not venture into some money losing business.. Well, unless the entrepreneurs think with their guts?
You can't be serious to equate a person thinking of buying a condo to a handicap??? Do I sense self-pity here?
East Lover
29-01-09, 10:53
Read the old post in Esta thread, very interesting to look back...
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=23502&postcount=34
You know how many owner are jammed by bank when they asked for bank loan. I have a owner that can't even get a refinance. Most investors are holding more then 10 units at a time. When times gets bad, sure to throw few units at a loss. ESTA bought at 6xx, they throw at 7xx(if they can get buyer then ok) don't be surprise low floor will hit 6xx. This recession is going to be a slow slow long one.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=28922&postcount=135
VIPCLUB2004
29-01-09, 11:04
Read the old post in Esta thread, very interesting to look back...
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=23502&postcount=34
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=28922&postcount=135
We all looks like expats, but non :spliff: It is good that we just talk talk here and take no actions, why should ppl buy house right now? If the economy & population slow down or even negative growth, then no way the property market will be up, simply nobody & no money to buy ma :D
thomastansb
29-01-09, 12:02
But the logic is the same. You will get enough attention.
Anyway, I shall wait for < 700 psf. 737 is already transacted. I am sure 600+ is not that far away. Give it 3 more months and I will start shopping. Hope those who bought more than 1k psf will have some fire sales and buyers can really push the price real low. Fundamentals of econs -> Supply vs Demand. If not, how you think Esta drop from 1.2k to 700-800 now.
One more thing, you can buy at 1300psf for all you want. Call me no guts, no brains or whatever. I will just smile when I get my 700 psf unit. I guess the feeling of staying in Esta should be the same regardless 1300psf or 700psf :tongue3::tongue3::tongue3:
You can't be serious to equate a person thinking of buying a condo to a handicap??? Do I sense self-pity here?
put it this way lah. this weekend i'm viewing just TOP to 1 yr old units at the barker/chancery area, FH for $8xx to $9xx psf range.
esta/oa at $9xx-$10xx is overpriced
This is an interesting discussion. Guts? Brain?
Buying property whether for own stay or investment, you need these 3 things:-
Money
Brain
Guts
No money no talk. You’re just wasting your time and taking too much risk if you dare to do so.
Use your brain is a must. Buy low is always the number 1 criteria. Nobody wants to buy high – this is a fact although it has already happened in the past in 2007. Some of them may not have use brain power at that time. However, there are some who have no choice. Example: Parents who want to buy near preferred school especially if their kid is ready for primary 1 education. They buy for own stay and their investment is the children future. Whether for short or long term investment, weigh yourself on the balance first. Brain power is needed here.
Not forgetting guts. You need it. Without it, it will get you nowhere. You can talk about it but it’s only on paper. I’ve a friend who wanted to move to private property. He’s hunting around since last year. He has the money ready and has the brain power of a good investor. He has already zoomed in onto one property which has already dropped in psf; but he is still hesitating. Why? Because of the risk involved. He said he will wait until the second half but may not buy eventually. He’s worried about losing his job in this climate even if the psf is at it’s lowest by then. A good investor needs to have gut to be successful.
It’s really a balancing act, you need to look left, right, front and back. If it’s in within range, do it. If not, stay where you are or wait further. Remember, don’t be too greedy. Life still goes on with or without condo.
East Lover
29-01-09, 12:49
put it this way lah. this weekend i'm viewing just TOP to 1 yr old units at the barker/chancery area, FH for $8xx to $9xx psf range.
esta/oa at $9xx-$10xx is overpriced
Really? can share some info about that area?
Property_Owner
29-01-09, 13:08
well done dude! honestly i don't know what's the bottom. UBS/CITI/CCRL all say a further 20% correction this year. which means property might go back to 2005/2006 levels. which means:
Landed: $400psf
Apartment status <2yrs old: $500psf
Condo status: $600psf
personally my trigger point is about $500-600psf for apartment status or sub-condo status - i prefer those nice cozy types to big ones. I'm the shy type, too many people in the pool or gym i won't use one :)
Esta,OA,TSV are price indicators for D15. They kinda set the benchmark for all other property values in the vicinity and that's the only reason why i'm tracking their prices.
in 4Q08, OA prices were about $950k asking. In Jan 09, OA prices are about $850 asking. I believe in Feb, we will start to look at $750psf.
if the economy continues this way, $600psf honestly isn't that far off.
Esta simply because of rental yield and TOP status can be priced about 10% above OA
Thanks. But please don't wish or hope I be in fire any sooner. I'm still counting my money and enjoying life. I been in property trade for pass few decades. Always believe, what gone up will comes down. What came down will go up. Buy at bottom, sell if can gain 30%. No more selling for me. Cause the next unit I sell I will be taxed heavily by Ah Gong.
Btw I met Zhu Hou Ren at Esta when I was collecting my keys. He is holding units in Esta too. What a small world :spliff:
Geylang OKT
29-01-09, 14:05
Why not look around little india's City Square Residences as well? After all certain brothers swear by that location.:D
Our indian brudders? :D
Geylang OKT
29-01-09, 14:10
Thanks. But please don't wish or hope I be in fire any sooner. I'm still counting my money and enjoying life. I been in property trade for pass few decades. Always believe, what gone up will comes down. What came down will go up. Buy at bottom, sell if can gain 30%. No more selling for me. Cause the next unit I sell I will be taxed heavily by Ah Gong.
Btw I met Zhu Hou Ren at Esta when I was collecting my keys. He is holding units in Esta too. What a small world :spliff:
I happened to pass by there today.... anybody know why the place is so quiet? I think about 30% to 40% of the buyers have moved in, going by the number of curtains and furnishings put up :D
Really? can share some info about that area?
;) lemme go viewing this weekend first lah, then after viewing i post for all if me not getting it :)
Thanks. But please don't wish or hope I be in fire any sooner. I'm still counting my money and enjoying life. I been in property trade for pass few decades. Always believe, what gone up will comes down. What came down will go up. Buy at bottom, sell if can gain 30%. No more selling for me. Cause the next unit I sell I will be taxed heavily by Ah Gong.
Btw I met Zhu Hou Ren at Esta when I was collecting my keys. He is holding units in Esta too. What a small world :spliff:
Wa... TCS celebrities (Even the non-leads) are so rich to hold units??
Any idea how much they are making...
seems like everyone can buy investment properties.
East Lover
29-01-09, 14:47
;) lemme go viewing this weekend first lah, then after viewing i post for all if me not getting it :)
sure, also help to compare the pros & cons between D15 & D10, or Amber/Katong v.s. newton... :cool:
sure, also help to compare the pros & cons between D15 & D10, or Amber/Katong v.s. newton... :cool:
more pros in D15 than D10. i've lived at both areas. D15 has growth potential ie MRT, Katong Mall redevelopment, etc. D10 has no more commercial development potential.
but of course, historical psyche is that D10 (closer to newton MRT, not novena) is more prestigious
one is a gucci, another is an LV - both mass market hardly any difference. unlike the bottegas and hermes of the GCB grange, orchard area
East Lover
29-01-09, 15:10
more pros in D15 than D10. i've lived at both areas. D15 has growth potential ie MRT, Katong Mall redevelopment, etc. D10 has no more commercial development potential.
but of course, historical psyche is that D10 (closer to newton MRT, not novena) is more prestigious
one is a gucci, another is an LV - both mass market hardly any difference. unlike the bottegas and hermes of the GCB grange, orchard area
Hahaha! No wonder can see more and more girls carry LV or Gucci nowaday, but hardly see any carry hermes. because LV/Guccis all belong to mass market :spliff2:
So ppl carry Guess bag, i guess it's EC? and those bags auntie carry one, must be HDB liao?! :p
COOL!:cheers6:
Geylang OKT
29-01-09, 16:47
I beg to differ. The place mentioned, around the Amber Road area, is TOTALLY CONGESTED with new redevelopments i.e. OA, Aristo, Esta, One Amber, Seaview and upcoming project fka Rose Gardens just to name a few. What happens when supply far outstrips demand? You know the answer just as well as I do :D
East Lover
29-01-09, 16:53
I beg to differ. The place mentioned, around the Amber Road area, is TOTALLY CONGESTED with new redevelopments i.e. OA, Aristo, Esta, One Amber, Seaview and upcoming project fka Rose Gardens just to name a few. What happens when supply far outstrips demand? You know the answer just as well as I do :D
I guess newton area also not that good, a lot of small but tall projects launched these few years, maybe as congested as amber area? that's why the price range is 8xx to 9xx psf range liao...
maybe gfoo can give more info for that after his weekend house hunting?:scared-5:
sigh my wife wants me to just give up this house hunting thing - too tiring she says. Just buy a HDB, fully paid up, and use the spare cash to retire or something
sigh my wife wants me to just give up this house hunting thing - too tiring she says. Just buy a HDB, fully paid up, and use the spare cash to retire or something
Actually.. for me, I will be looking at penthouses and landed..
'coz I also do feel condos/apts less than 2000sqft are similar to HDB in every way (apart from the condo facilities which my family seldom use).
Unless of course, the apts/condos are for investment.
East Lover
29-01-09, 17:32
sigh my wife wants me to just give up this house hunting thing - too tiring she says. Just buy a HDB, fully paid up, and use the spare cash to retire or something
Well, if you buy low now, and sell high few years later, then buy a HDB flat, you still can fully paid, but with more spare cash to retire...
just my 2 cents:2cents:
Hi, there are many who make millions through property investment. This is not myth... This time, i believe it also make many millionaires.
When market is crashing, it is always the "auntie"/"uncle" who queue up for home purchase, not those smart and rich investors who have reaped profits and stay out. (of course, not the rich and stupid group :spliff: ). And these smart and rich group, are definitely at the top tier of the society.
i just want to clarify this :p
At least these 80%, while they may not be rich, they won't face financial difficulties. And while they may not be the top 20%, I believe they can still be in the upper 30-50%.
However, those so-called `dare to be different' 20%, are not the people who make money out of speculating properties. They are gamblers who after making easy couple of $hundreds, will surely plow the profits back in greed in the hope to earn more. And they are also the same stubborn bulls who still try to convience people now to buy their hot potatoes as they suddenly see their easily gotten profits being stuck in higher px properties. In time to come, these people may even be worse off as they usually do not have the ability to hold any properties to begin with. Easy come, easy go. Natural law of things.
The true 20/80 rule thus applies to the true business man, not your speculators. Its a myth people can become rich so easily from properties. History has shown there are more casulties and victims from past property boom/bust than people who made it rich.
WOW!!. This Esta thread should get 6 stars man. So many posts in a day.
From what i can remember, Zhu Hou Ren is not lead now, but in his heyday he can fight with Li Nan Xing ok! hahah...
Anyway, Saturday is coming. The first Sat after CNY. Lets see if sellers have updated their ads or still trying to hold up. I believe this:
In this time of uncertainty, it is not the talkers who will move the market. The person who will get my utmost respect is one who can lodge a caveat at 600psf-700psf at OA or Esta. This hero is the one who will set the new low and spark of the potential fire sales. So who will be the ZHUGE KONG MING (buyer) who will set fire to all the CAO CAO out there (sellers)?!?!?
I will continue to :47:
Geylang OKT
29-01-09, 21:10
:jogging: :jogging: :jogging:
Geylang OKT
29-01-09, 21:13
sigh my wife wants me to just give up this house hunting thing - too tiring she says. Just buy a HDB, fully paid up, and use the spare cash to retire or something
Seriously, it really depends what you want to buy the house for. For investment purposes, instead of buying those tiny up in the sky expensive pigeon hole of a condo unit, sometimes it pays to buy a old and run down apartment to wait for a potential enbloc. In the meantime, the house can also earn its keep by letting it out to workers. :47:
Seriously, it really depends what you want to buy the house for. For investment purposes, instead of buying those tiny up in the sky expensive pigeon hole of a condo unit, sometimes it pays to buy a old and run down apartment to wait for a potential enbloc. In the meantime, the house can also earn its keep by letting it out to workers. :47:
lol - we were just talking about it in the car - buying one of those super old walkups at oxley, do it up nicely, wait for lee to conk off, then that whole area plot ratio will suddenly go from 1.2 to 2.8 :)
but knowing him, he'll probably live forever
lol - we were just talking about it in the car - buying one of those super old walkups at oxley, do it up nicely, wait for lee to conk off, then that whole area plot ratio will suddenly go from 1.2 to 2.8 :)
but knowing him, he'll probably live forever
Sorry but you lost me here... what has lee conk off got to do with plot ratio changes?
BTW, I dun really understand plot ratio.... 2.8 means for a landsize of 1.0sqft, 2.8sqft of built-up can be constructed?
Geylang OKT
30-01-09, 06:31
1000sqft land area,you can have built up 2800sqft. Need to take into consideration constaints for greenery etc. :D
lol - we were just talking about it in the car - buying one of those super old walkups at oxley, do it up nicely, wait for lee to conk off, then that whole area plot ratio will suddenly go from 1.2 to 2.8 :)
but knowing him, he'll probably live forever
The restriction is not one man. As long as the Istana is there, Oxley's plot ratio will not likely change. I can't see the Istana shifting to another place.... ever.
The restriction is not one man. As long as the Istana is there, Oxley's plot ratio will not likely change. I can't see the Istana shifting to another place.... ever.
errr, oxley is 2 streets away from the istana. all surrounding the oxley area, incl in front of the istana, are 2.1pr condos. I'm talking about that stretch of road that is guarded by the gurkhas
errr, oxley is 2 streets away from the istana. all surrounding the oxley area, incl in front of the istana, are 2.1pr condos. I'm talking about that stretch of road that is guarded by the gurkhas
I think the government probably want the entire Oxley area to be low-rise buildings as it's a mini hill, to avoid potential danger to the human traffic at the Istana.
Geylang OKT
30-01-09, 08:08
There's a reason for it. Do you also know that those devts overlooking the Istana (even from afar) must have all their windows glazed? :cool: ;) :D
East Lover
30-01-09, 13:23
Monthly maintenance is ard $380 for a 4 bedder. No. of carparks = No of units at Esta. Last known is 20% of the people moving into Esta don't drive, so there should be enough lots for people who visit you during the weekends.
I believe there are many hopeful brudders out there trying to keep the market up with their upbeat comments, but nothing beats fact. From Dec 08 when i saw ppl offer 880psf for esta and 850 psf for one amber, to Jan 09 before CNY ppl offer 850 psf for esta and 799psf for one amber there is only one conclusion, unless world economy gets a viagra boost within the next 3 mths, we will continue to see a similar sub-prime situation in Singapore.
I dare take a poll in this thread, how many will buy at 800 psf this month VS how many will wait till it drops below 700 psf.
I personally will wait and continue to do this....:47:
Are we able to do on-line polling on the existing thread?
It seems only can be done during new thread creation?!:stupid:
Are we able to do on-line polling on the existing thread?
It seems only can be done during new thread creation?!:stupid:
nvm, i created a new poll. i too am interested to know :)
East Lover
30-01-09, 13:39
nvm, i created a new poll. i too am interested to know :)
Cool! :cool1:
Will be great if we can add the polling in our existing ever-famous-6-star Esta thread. :cheers4:
East Lover
30-01-09, 15:24
see this nice pool facing unit is waiting for rental also...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XkVClC8Tkl4/SS4Sz7LvanI/AAAAAAAAAKk/tZuG8TDoYaU/s1600/SD2%2B094.jpg
http://the-esta.blogspot.com/
Rough Rental Guide:
- 2/2 + 1 = $3000
- 3/3 + 1 = $4000
- 4 = $4500
Don't know how many of them mananged to rent out...
VIPCLUB2004
30-01-09, 15:26
【我打电话回国拜年，人人问我：美国经济危机现在到底有多严重？这样吧。我不发表任何自己的看法和结论，实况报道。】
●2008年总共失业者是2．6百万。其中12月失业者52万4千。
●一个礼拜(1/12-17)，美国首次申请失业金的人有58万9千，比前个礼拜增加了6万2千。总共有4．6百万人领失业金。
●20个主要城市房屋11月掉价18．2%。2008年全国全年掉价10．6%。与2006年7月房屋价最高时相比，加州掉了42%，内华达州掉了39%。
●破产者2008年比2007年多了81%。有些州，比如亚里桑那州破产者比2007年多了203%。2008年总共有861,664家庭因破产而房屋被银行拍卖 。IMF(国际货币基金会)估算，美国房屋贷款损失将达2．2兆亿美元。
●这星期一(1/26)仅1天，7万1千400百多人失去了工作，被称“Bloody Monday”。今年(2009)才过了一个月不到，美国公司裁员人数达20万7千多。
●我的大老板昨天接到通知：他被裁了。 :D :D
Geylang OKT
30-01-09, 16:20
see this nice pool facing unit is waiting for rental also...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XkVClC8Tkl4/SS4Sz7LvanI/AAAAAAAAAKk/tZuG8TDoYaU/s1600/SD2%2B094.jpg
http://the-esta.blogspot.com/
Rough Rental Guide:
- 2/2 + 1 = $3000
- 3/3 + 1 = $4000
- 4 = $4500
Don't know how many of them mananged to rent out...
Less SGD$200 to $300 will tiok :D
Hey east lover, wassup with the sign. you calling me idiot? Dun so mean lah.
Anyway nothing clever to contribute today. Hey Miow, your nick is wrong man. Miow=Ngeow= stingy. You should be called Carrot/ Turnip.
Cai tao.
Geylang OKT
31-01-09, 05:18
Guys, don't fight lah. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether bullish or bearish on the market. Diversity. That's what makes the forum interesting and engaging! :)
East Lover
02-02-09, 08:39
Hey east lover, wassup with the sign. you calling me idiot? Dun so mean lah.
No lah. i'm refering to the thread admin or developer... as a normal user, what can we do if the feature so limited?
Don't be so sensitive lah! Happy housing hunting!:spliff:
Sorry east lover bro, my bad.
Anyway, some updates to all. Just visited Esta again. According to the agents there ("esta specialist"), the number of units for sale have dropped. Esta owners still asking for ard 800+ to 900+ psf. However, now its negotiable...so see your bargaining skill.
Was also told most of the speculators at Esta have already left market before their DPS loans kicked in. Hence, the rest of the units in the market now belong to those with holding power. Which does make sense.
So for the scavengers out there looking for a deal at Esta, might have to look harder and dig deeper for a good deal.
But its really quiet there now...not as many people viewing already there.
Geylang OKT
03-02-09, 05:50
Yep... really quiet.
Also, these is no such thing as "specialist". You can go tell the agents there that it is against their code of conduct to call themselves "xxx specialist" this and that, unless of course they have not passed CEHA or simply do not abide by its code of conduct :D
WolleyDragon
03-02-09, 09:06
Sorry east lover bro, my bad.
Anyway, some updates to all. Just visited Esta again. According to the agents there ("esta specialist"), the number of units for sale have dropped. Esta owners still asking for ard 800+ to 900+ psf. However, now its negotiable...so see your bargaining skill.
Was also told most of the speculators at Esta have already left market before their DPS loans kicked in. Hence, the rest of the units in the market now belong to those with holding power. Which does make sense.
So for the scavengers out there looking for a deal at Esta, might have to look harder and dig deeper for a good deal.
But its really quiet there now...not as many people viewing already there.
Quite agree that we have to look deeper for a good deal.
Also know that there are lots of units available for rent at Esta, my agent friend had a owner who wanted to rent out for $5K per mth, in the end, only manage to get abt $3K tenant...
Scavengers will have to wait for these sort of owners who can only hold for so long (when rental does not materialize) then go in for the kill..
Ya, it does seems so.
The problem is the property must have rental to cover the installment.
If the number of units to be completed this year is to be 10k+ units, means the current owners will have to content with an increase in competition(not necessary 10k).
Quite agree that we have to look deeper for a good deal.
Also know that there are lots of units available for rent at Esta, my agent friend had a owner who wanted to rent out for $5K per mth, in the end, only manage to get abt $3K tenant...
Scavengers will have to wait for these sort of owners who can only hold for so long (when rental does not materialize) then go in for the kill..
Haha... i doubt there is anything "to kill"... Generally if it is the 1st owner and they have bought cheap and oredi taken up loan, they can afford to rent out cheap to cover the monthly instalment. And definitely despite even in current environment, there are tenants around... as long as tenants find the price affordable to them.
IF it is the subsequent owners, they oredi taken up loan long time ago... and it will be subjective whether they choose to lose hundreds every mth to "subsidise" tenants and wait for 2 yrs or cut BIG loss now... Think about it, would one take a hit of eg. a 3rm lose $50psf of $65k or even more now to sell cheap or lose $500 evey mth over 2 yrs to rent out cheap... with the hope/ gamble that selling px would be better in 2 yrs time.
Personally, i think it would be sad for all of us if property and stock mkt remain depressed in 2 yrs time...
Good luck :)
Sorry east lover bro, my bad.
Anyway, some updates to all. Just visited Esta again. According to the agents there ("esta specialist"), the number of units for sale have dropped. Esta owners still asking for ard 800+ to 900+ psf. However, now its negotiable...so see your bargaining skill.
Was also told most of the speculators at Esta have already left market before their DPS loans kicked in. Hence, the rest of the units in the market now belong to those with holding power. Which does make sense.
So for the scavengers out there looking for a deal at Esta, might have to look harder and dig deeper for a good deal.
But its really quiet there now...not as many people viewing already there.
Yes bro, as what i have shared in my earlier post. That's why i really doubt there are good units around at $7xx now, which some bros in the forum are waiting and believing it might happen... Good units i will up my px to grab 1st... :)
Bro jc, I have to agree totally with your point. Well, after going to Esta for a few times...really dun feel like it is worth the 860-950 psf. The common toilet at the clubhouse is so small that when you sit on the toilet bowl and close the door, you can rest your knees on the door.
BUT, layout of the units at esta are more user friendly compared to OA. Its like choosing between the devil and the deep blue sea. So see which one cheaper.
Bro jc, I have to agree totally with your point. Well, after going to Esta for a few times...really dun feel like it is worth the 860-950 psf. The common toilet at the clubhouse is so small that when you sit on the toilet bowl and close the door, you can rest your knees on the door.
BUT, layout of the units at esta are more user friendly compared to OA. Its like choosing between the devil and the deep blue sea. So see which one cheaper.
Haha... well there are some paying $1k+ Mountbatten Suites or $1.1k+ OLA where these projects don't even have a clubhouse. And we can't fault some that paid $1.2k+ for pigeon hole size rooms in The Sea View. OA room layout tragic... now $8xx maybe going for $7xx in the near future. So is it worth $9xx for Esta? :p
East Lover
05-02-09, 17:30
尽管发展商普遍坚持不降价，星狮地产（Frasers Centrepoint）准备在这个周末推出的Caspian共管公寓项目，却一口气较高峰期锐减了近一半，平均预售价订在每平方英尺580元，回到2006年下半年的水平。
http://property.zaobao.com/pages6/private090205.shtml
Ya.. the showrooom is open tomorrow from 12noon - 9pm..
But I must say the comm to agents are razorthin..
Seems like the developer is confident of selling this project without much hassle.
Geylang OKT
05-02-09, 21:23
No $700psf No Buy! :D
VIPCLUB2004
11-02-09, 09:57
No $700psf No Buy! :D
Nobody post anything here for the past week, good good, seems $700psf will be here soon, continue put $$ under bed and sleep :sleep:
East Lover
11-02-09, 12:53
Nobody post anything here for the past week, good good, seems $700psf will be here soon, continue put $$ under bed and sleep :sleep:
Checked Esta last week, still insist asking $900 psf for 3 bedders... 4 bedder sold at 810psf last week. that is 1.26 mil. if wait till 700psf, it's only cost 1.09 mil nia.
总有等不了的主。
VIPCLUB2004
11-02-09, 14:27
Checked Esta last week, still insist asking $900 psf for 3 bedders... 4 bedder sold at 810psf last week. that is 1.26 mil. if wait till 700psf, it's only cost 1.09 mil nia.
总有等不了的主。
Since the price have no way to go up, don't know why some people still rush :D
My budget is only around 800k for a condo, need save for many years. If I don't have the ability to clear house loan within 5 years, I will not buy, of course I could choose not to clear all loan in 5 years....
East Lover
11-02-09, 15:10
Since the price have no way to go up, don't know why some people still rush :D
My budget is only around 800k for a condo, need save for many years. If I don't have the ability to clear house loan within 5 years, I will not buy, of course I could choose not to clear all loan in 5 years....
There are always a debat on the loan repaying time vs inflation.
Instead of 5 years, should we go for the longest time, say 30 years? it may seems huge interest on bank loan, but who knows what's the money value after 30 years?
Just like those lucky old folks, 20 years ago, used $100K bought a big big land, if they work hard as dog, to clear their loan of $80K in 5 years, is it worthy? 20 years later, their property already increase to 2, 3 mil liao, what's the big deal of that $100K? :scared-2:
maybe 20 years later, our avg 50% income already $10K per head liao, a cond unit easily asked 3, 5 mil :) , what's the big deal of $800K by then? maybe you can simply happily downgrade to a smaller house by selling this one?:cheers6:
Just my 2 cents :2cents:
There are always a debat on the loan repaying time vs inflation.
Just my 2 cents :2cents:
I would think that is only 1 factor for consideration.
The other factors that most people have to contend with is their risk aversion level.
Those who are risk averse probably will be also worrying about their retirement and whether their job is guaranteed for the next 30yrs (assuming they stretch the repayment tenure).
So they seek to pay off early and start to accumulate more money for retirement.
Of course, those who have enough to pay off the house can instead opt to have a longer loan tenure because they have the confidence that even if they are retrench, they have the reserve to pay off the loan.
So, it really depends on the person and his income stability.
I think for those who are interested in Esta, you should start looking at the rental section to see what is available there. Cos it might be likely that those who cannot hold out any longer to wait for tenant will result in shifting their rental ads to sales ads.
Flipped wrongly to the rental section last saturday and it dawned on me that the rental section is much bigger than the sales section for D15-16. And the word "Esta" is pooping up everywhere in the rental section.
East Lover
12-02-09, 09:20
I think for those who are interested in Esta, you should start looking at the rental section to see what is available there. Cos it might be likely that those who cannot hold out any longer to wait for tenant will result in shifting their rental ads to sales ads.
Flipped wrongly to the rental section last saturday and it dawned on me that the rental section is much bigger than the sales section for D15-16. And the word "Esta" is pooping up everywhere in the rental section.
found this in D9 thread http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=6894
One of the Bank's CEO and developer got together to analise the current property market and do some calculation and short term forecast. This is what they have got :
- 40,000 units coming into the market in year 2009
- for the whole month of December only 300+ units sold for entire Singapore
- Banks are not landing , only ppl with over 30% cash deposits and over 200k annual wages now have the chance to get a mortgage providing the property below valuation.
- Rental plummeting and expats downgrading or running away from Singapore
- towards the mid 09' default's rate to reach almost 50% for those who bought on DPS
- prime areas are 30 to 70% down for the last 6 month
their summarised and got extreme competition among those 40,000 units owners and very limited numbers of tenants will lead to massive freefall of property prices after March-April bottoming in June-August
Government has to intervent the market or it will be the whole nation going into bankrupcy.
Average prices to be expected in May - June by Condos according to their calculations:
Ardmore 2 - $1300 psf
St. Regis - $1,200 psf
Cosmopolitan - $900 psf
Rivergate - $800 psf
MBR - $1,000 psf
Oceanfront and The Coasts $700 psf ( this one one of the worth hit , with no tenants willing to stay that far away and crazy high maintenance of excess of $1000 per month, hours of morning traffic jams and no shops and facilities apart from overpriced One 15 no fools want to buy these units and their on DPS , most owners have less then a year to settle and ma ny of them have 0 liquidity in the bank where banks valuation on those going down everyday so there will be very limited financing)
It could be a good time to short sell to buy again at much lower price towards the end of the year in around August to recoup some losses. ...
---------
I wonder how much does the Esta worth in their eyes? whoever has buget to buy the Seaview, should buy Ardmore 2 instead!
East Lover
12-02-09, 09:42
I think for those who are interested in Esta, you should start looking at the rental section to see what is available there. Cos it might be likely that those who cannot hold out any longer to wait for tenant will result in shifting their rental ads to sales ads.
Flipped wrongly to the rental section last saturday and it dawned on me that the rental section is much bigger than the sales section for D15-16. And the word "Esta" is pooping up everywhere in the rental section.
looking at the rental section is a good idea!
VIPCLUB2004
12-02-09, 13:58
There are always a debat on the loan repaying time vs inflation.
Instead of 5 years, should we go for the longest time, say 30 years? it may seems huge interest on bank loan, but who knows what's the money value after 30 years?
Just like those lucky old folks, 20 years ago, used $100K bought a big big land, if they work hard as dog, to clear their loan of $80K in 5 years, is it worthy? 20 years later, their property already increase to 2, 3 mil liao, what's the big deal of that $100K? :scared-2:
maybe 20 years later, our avg 50% income already $10K per head liao, a cond unit easily asked 3, 5 mil :) , what's the big deal of $800K by then? maybe you can simply happily downgrade to a smaller house by selling this one?:cheers6:
Just my 2 cents :2cents:
You are right, such things may happen.... I just want to have the "ability" to pay off all loan within 5 years, otherwise should not consider too expensive house....
I also worry about the common believe that salary will always go up and house price will always go up, GDP will always go up, which may not be true. For developping countries like China or India, it may be true for the next 20 or 30 year, but for developed countries like UK, Japan or even Singapore, which may not be true.... Everything will be "saturated" under certain system, unless there is "revolution" :D If we look at Japan for the past 20 years, we should learn a lot from it... And many coutries like UK or Spain, very wealthy a few 100 years ago, now quite the same as Singapore in salary & GDP per head... Those lucky guy bought cheap land when Singapore was relative poor at that time, if we buy a land now, will the price go up 20 or 30 times in future, I don't think so, maybe just can double or triple, those golden time has gone....:sleep:
Seems the house & land price in Japan is much less than half of the price in later 1980s.......
Kenshinto80
13-02-09, 20:23
You are right, such things may happen.... I just want to have the "ability" to pay off all loan within 5 years, otherwise should not consider too expensive house....
I also worry about the common believe that salary will always go up and house price will always go up, GDP will always go up, which may not be true. For developping countries like China or India, it may be true for the next 20 or 30 year, but for developed countries like UK, Japan or even Singapore, which may not be true.... Everything will be "saturated" under certain system, unless there is "revolution" :D If we look at Japan for the past 20 years, we should learn a lot from it... And many coutries like UK or Spain, very wealthy a few 100 years ago, now quite the same as Singapore in salary & GDP per head... Those lucky guy bought cheap land when Singapore was relative poor at that time, if we buy a land now, will the price go up 20 or 30 times in future, I don't think so, maybe just can double or triple, those golden time has gone....:sleep:
Seems the house & land price in Japan is much less than half of the price in later 1980s.......
Where did you extract the information that property price in Japan less than half of its price in later 1980s? From what my Japanese colleagues told me, more of the real value in present is about same as 1980s due to the 17 years of very slow and little economic growth. But to say house and land price in Japan is less than half of the price in 1980 is quite exaggerated......
VIPCLUB2004
16-02-09, 08:42
Where did you extract the information that property price in Japan less than half of its price in later 1980s? From what my Japanese colleagues told me, more of the real value in present is about same as 1980s due to the 17 years of very slow and little economic growth. But to say house and land price in Japan is less than half of the price in 1980 is quite exaggerated......
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t1838.html
It said that the WORST is over within 4 years, so we need to wait after 2010 :sleep:
Prices were highest in Tokyo's Ginza district in 1989, with choice properties fetching over US$1.5 million per square meter ($139,000 per square foot). Prices were only slightly less in other areas of Tokyo. By 2004, prime "A" property in Tokyo's financial districts had slumped and Tokyo's residential homes were a fraction of their peak, but still managed to be listed as the most expensive in the world. Trillions were wiped out with the combined collapse of the Tokyo stock and real estate markets.
VIPCLUB2004
16-02-09, 08:56
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Asia/Japan/Price-History
Japan’s short-lived housing market recovery is over, for now (Last Updated: Dec 22, 2008)
Japan is ahead of Singapore for the past 30 or 40 years, so we Singaporeans can learn quite many from what happened in Japan, which may happen here also in future....
As in the newspaper few days ago, Singapore property price is already among the top 10 most expensive cities in the world, while our average income may not be in the top 10 cities, so how high our property price can go??!! :doh:
East Lover
16-02-09, 09:31
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Asia/Japan/Price-History
Japan’s short-lived housing market recovery is over, for now (Last Updated: Dec 22, 2008)
Japan is ahead of Singapore for the past 30 or 40 years, so we Singaporeans can learn quite many from what happened in Japan, which may happen here also in future....
As in the newspaper few days ago, Singapore property price is already among the top 10 most expensive cities in the world, while our average income may not be in the top 10 cities, so how high our property price can go??!! :doh:
The Saturday classified still asking 900+ for the Esta, the Alexis almost sold out. who said market is bad???
proud owner
16-02-09, 10:27
The Saturday classified still asking 900+ for the Esta, the Alexis almost sold out. who said market is bad???
asking 900+ ?
thats Asking ... has it been sold at 900 + ?
i can also advertise my condo at 1000 psf when other nearby projects are going at 750 psf right ?
thats asking 1000 psf
that does not mean my project is doing well ...
East Lover
16-02-09, 10:31
asking 900+ ?
thats Asking ... has it been sold at 900 + ?
i can also advertise my condo at 1000 psf when other nearby projects are going at 750 psf right ?
thats asking 1000 psf
that does not mean my project is doing well ...
not leh, according to agent, 900psf very firmly. that resulted me have no mode to view already. no way to negotia, why waste time to view?
Property_Owner
16-02-09, 11:14
not leh, according to agent, 900psf very firmly. that resulted me have no mode to view already. no way to negotia, why waste time to view?
True! My unit at Esta I also asked for 950psf. I'm very firm about the price too. That's why I choose to rent it out rather then sell it cheap! It's all about holding power. :)
proud owner
16-02-09, 11:26
True! My unit at Esta I also asked for 950psf. I'm very firm about the price too. That's why I choose to rent it out rather then sell it cheap! It's all about holding power. :)
so how big is your unit ? and how much you manage to rent out ?
Property_Owner
16-02-09, 11:31
so how big is your unit ? and how much you manage to rent out ?
3 room. Rented out 4k. About 5% yield:)
proud owner
16-02-09, 11:36
3 room. Rented out 4k. About 5% yield:)
good
i rented out my terrace house, built up 3600 sqft 4 bedrooms at 8.5 k
then i move to river valley 3 bedroom 3k hehehe
Property_Owner
16-02-09, 11:42
good
i rented out my terrace house, built up 3600 sqft 4 bedrooms at 8.5 k
then i move to river valley 3 bedroom 3k hehehe
Good
Smart move for you:) Another good investor here:cheers6:
proud owner
16-02-09, 11:46
Good
Smart move for you:) Another good investor here:cheers6:
thanks thanks
but hor ... i will be moving to oversea for 3-5 yrs ...
i hope by the time i about to come back mkt recovers then i hit one more and wait for mkt to cheong .. then i flip and retire hehehe
Property_Owner
16-02-09, 12:19
thanks thanks
but hor ... i will be moving to oversea for 3-5 yrs ...
i hope by the time i about to come back mkt recovers then i hit one more and wait for mkt to cheong .. then i flip and retire hehehe
All e best to you bro:cheers6:
where joe now? you there?
:)
Pet
proud owner
17-02-09, 13:16
not leh, according to agent, 900psf very firmly. that resulted me have no mode to view already. no way to negotia, why waste time to view?
Esta 1378 sqft already sold at 840 psf ....
900 psf support broken
yeah ...
OA soon will be 700 psf (already traded at 761 psf )
East Lover
17-02-09, 13:19
Esta 1378 sqft already sold at 840 psf ....
900 psf support broken
yeah ...
OA soon will be 700 psf (already traded at 761 psf )
why so happy? i thought our target is 700psf for Esta, and 600 for OA (a bit too much lah :p )
proud owner
17-02-09, 13:23
why so happy? i thought our target is 700psf for Esta, and 600 for OA (a bit too much lah :p )
sorry if i sounded happy to see prices falling in east coast area ..
i have a die hard east coast colleague .. living in a seaview 5 rm HDB in marine parade .. told me last yr his valuation very high .. and he bought cheap and already fully paid .. and looking to upgrade to condo ..and said he liked OA and Esta ... but cannot afford
i told him to sell his HDB ..move in with parents ... and wait 6-9mths .. and that he would have enuff $$ to buy OA or Esta ...he didnt believe me ...
the Yeah ... was meant for him ...oppps ...
now his HDB also drop
why so happy? i thought our target is 700psf for Esta, and 600 for OA (a bit too much lah :p )
Agree... TE = $699psf, OA = $599psf, TSV = $799 then move in to talk to agents/owners :)
thanks thanks
but hor ... i will be moving to oversea for 3-5 yrs ...
i hope by the time i about to come back mkt recovers then i hit one more and wait for mkt to cheong .. then i flip and retire hehehe
Ya talk is east and talk is free. So easy ahh, everyone will be a millionaire loh.
proud owner
17-02-09, 14:04
Ya talk is east and talk is free. So easy ahh, everyone will be a millionaire loh.
i am no millionaire ..yet ... but i did make some good $$ from 2006 to 2008 ... enuff to fully paid off one penthouse 2300 sqft ....
and still owns a terrace ...
and i strongly believe the opportuinities will present themselves again ...
if you follow my replies in all forums here ..in all districts ... you will remember ... i always say...
location location location & psf psf psf ...
right now there are alot of value buys ... if you care to look around ... and do some home work ...
DONT buy just becos its less than $ 1 mio ... like those who bought Alexis ..
Dont buy if you yourself WONT want to live there
Dont buy if everyone is buying .... (esp big projects > 200 units )
Dont buy near too near the road ( govt can expand road )
etc etc ...
East Lover
17-02-09, 15:05
i am no millionaire ..yet ... but i did make some good $$ from 2006 to 2008 ... enuff to fully paid off one penthouse 2300 sqft ....
and still owns a terrace ...
and i strongly believe the opportuinities will present themselves again ...
if you follow my replies in all forums here ..in all districts ... you will remember ... i always say...
location location location & psf psf psf ...
right now there are alot of value buys ... if you care to look around ... and do some home work ...
DONT buy just becos its less than $ 1 mio ... like those who bought Alexis ..
Dont buy if you yourself WONT want to live there
Dont buy if everyone is buying .... (esp big projects > 200 units )
Dont buy near too near the road ( govt can expand road )
etc etc ...
so why not share with us what is GOOD BUY?
DO buy if ...
proud owner
17-02-09, 16:18
so why not share with us what is GOOD BUY?
DO buy if ...
i am currently looking at old projects ....along RV/killiney
i wont mention any project in particular ...
cos i am ok to live in Pacific mansion ...old like fxxx ..but throw in 20k and do up interior ..it can be a heaven on its own ...some more got mei mei to watch ..
dont ask me buy at what psf .. you decide what is comfortable ..
Tips : if Rivergate / Urbana fall below 850 psf.. where you think the old ones will be ?
the old Pheonix Hotel is gone ... so is that open air carpark ..in time to come ..that will be the next 'Taka' along somerset ... so Killiney has huge potential ...
and as for the politically sensitive Oxley ... can he stay there FOREVER ?
once that place loses its ' Palace' status...all the low rise there has HUGE potential ...
Dist 9 + 10 will always have its attraction , as long as orchard holds its tourist belt title ..
forget dist 11 15 16 (ahha i am going to attract a lot of criticism and scolding) ...so densely populated .. any bird drop its shit ..sure land on someone's roof ... meaning ..when you need to exit ...there are another 1000's wanting to sell ...
ANY country in this world ...when it goes into recession ... govt will NEVER hold back any expenditure on its 'golden belt' ...
Before asian crisis ... EVERY HDB applicant rushed to North east zone becos of Punggol 21 project ... what happened to it ??
kena crisis such project outskirt sure kena put on hold ... and hold for 10 yrs ... BUT during this time ...has Orchard rd ever stop its expansion ?
think about it ...
East Lover
17-02-09, 16:56
i am currently looking at old projects ....along RV/killiney
i wont mention any project in particular ...
cos i am ok to live in Pacific mansion ...old like fxxx ..but throw in 20k and do up interior ..it can be a heaven on its own ...some more got mei mei to watch ..
dont ask me buy at what psf .. you decide what is comfortable ..
Tips : if Rivergate / Urbana fall below 850 psf.. where you think the old ones will be ?
the old Pheonix Hotel is gone ... so is that open air carpark ..in time to come ..that will be the next 'Taka' along somerset ... so Killiney has huge potential ...
and as for the politically sensitive Oxley ... can he stay there FOREVER ?
once that place loses its ' Palace' status...all the low rise there has HUGE potential ...
Dist 9 + 10 will always have its attraction , as long as orchard holds its tourist belt title ..
forget dist 11 15 16 (ahha i am going to attract a lot of criticism and scolding) ...so densely populated .. any bird drop its shit ..sure land on someone's roof ... meaning ..when you need to exit ...there are another 1000's wanting to sell ...
ANY country in this world ...when it goes into recession ... govt will NEVER hold back any expenditure on its 'golden belt' ...
Before asian crisis ... EVERY HDB applicant rushed to North east zone becos of Punggol 21 project ... what happened to it ??
kena crisis such project outskirt sure kena put on hold ... and hold for 10 yrs ... BUT during this time ...has Orchard rd ever stop its expansion ?
think about it ...
well say man! no wonder dear to call yourself proud owner! :cool:
i am no millionaire ..yet ... but i did make some good $$ from 2006 to 2008 ... enuff to fully paid off one penthouse 2300 sqft ....
and still owns a terrace ...
and i strongly believe the opportuinities will present themselves again ...
if you follow my replies in all forums here ..in all districts ... you will remember ... i always say...
location location location & psf psf psf ...
right now there are alot of value buys ... if you care to look around ... and do some home work ...
DONT buy just becos its less than $ 1 mio ... like those who bought Alexis ..
Dont buy if you yourself WONT want to live there
Dont buy if everyone is buying .... (esp big projects > 200 units )
Dont buy near too near the road ( govt can expand road )
etc etc ...
3 CHEERS FOR PROUD OWNER! I AGREE WITH ALL YOUR POINTS! A TRUE GURU in pty mkt.
completely agree with proud owner, that's why i've totally turned my sights away from d15
completely agree with proud owner, that's why i've totally turned my sights away from d15
where are you looking at now?
where's the best place to stay? i need a FH, 3rms, but budget only $750k... pls advice :)
I agree with proud owner! that's why my investments were in D9 and 10. And I don't mean D9 near Little India or D10 Queensway or Mount Sinai - those are no good at all.
Actually I have 2 in D11 also, one on Dunearn Road near RGPS and one near ACS barker, and they are both in low density areas. So I disagree with his comment about D11 being lousy investment, but i'm sure he meant Balestier area ad Lincoln Rd area- those areas are simply glorified HDB estates.
And you know what.. I currently live near the Killiney stretch in a 3 bedroom that I own, so I must concur that great minds think alike! :D
where are you looking at now?
where's the best place to stay? i need a FH, 3rms, but budget only $750k... pls advice :)
mainly in core central region like orchard road
your budget, i recommend ferraria park. simply because it's low density, in a relatively atas condo-only locality, and i love the fact that it has a huge-ass long pool running through the middle of the condo. also unlike those in telok kurau, the distance between blocks is quite wide, so you don't get a feeling of crampness.
MOST importantly, that area has the highest density of SYT stewardesses for you to beo.
unfortunately, as it's ulu, you gotta drive
Ferraria Park gets
'Ahfoo's Seal Of Approval for Best Ulu FH Condo for Good Clean Fun'
:p
For 'Ahfoo's Seal Of Approval for Best Condo for Good Paid Fun' look to Geylang area condos for north asian cuisine, Citysquare for north indian cuisine, and robertson quay for korean/jap cuisine. luckily changi village no condo otherwise there goes the neighbourhood
mainly in core central region like orchard road
your budget, i recommend ferraria park. simply because it's low density, in a relatively atas condo-only locality, and i love the fact that it has a huge-ass long pool running through the middle of the condo. also unlike those in telok kurau, the distance between blocks is quite wide, so you don't get a feeling of crampness.
MOST importantly, that area has the highest density of SYT stewardesses for you to beo.
unfortunately, as it's ulu, you gotta drive
Ferraria Park gets
'Ahfoo's Seal Of Approval for Best Ulu FH Condo for Good Clean Fun'
:p
For 'Ahfoo's Seal Of Approval for Best Condo for Good Paid Fun' look to Geylang area condos for north asian cuisine, Citysquare for north indian cuisine, and robertson quay for korean/jap cuisine. luckily changi village no condo otherwise there goes the neighbourhood
haha... vry ulur... want to see crew also no need stay there. my wifey is crew too, all her friend also crew. so beo until dunwan to beo.
what about clementi area like Carabelle or infiniti?
haha... vry ulur... want to see crew also no need stay there. my wifey is crew too, all her friend also crew. so beo until dunwan to beo.
what about clementi area like Carabelle or infiniti?
please be my best friend ...
dun like clementi area, no room for potential growth. next to highway, v dusty and noisy
i would rather get pasir panjang projects - if they do relocate the port one day, might have room for growth
please be my best friend ...
dun like clementi area, no room for potential growth. next to highway, v dusty and noisy
i would rather get pasir panjang projects - if they do relocate the port one day, might have room for growth
hmnnn... look like no good place to stay in SG... canot afford those central prime area also... :banghead:
i am currently looking at old projects ....along RV/killiney
i wont mention any project in particular ...
and as for the politically sensitive Oxley ... can he stay there FOREVER ?
Aspen heights, the Regalia, the Morningside, Yong An Park, La Crystal, the Claremont, Rivershire. These are quite liveable and well maintained, compared to Pac Mansion. They are also just about the last few old condos in desirable D9 locations that have yet to go en bloc. In other words, great value if you can get them cheap. I love this area but unfortunately I am left with only one unit that I live in, having sold the other 2 a couple of years ago.
Forget about the other side of RV, ie- Valley Park and Melrose Park. That area is so congested with small condos, eating places plus a great view of Delta Rd HDBs that you'll be better off buying somewhere in Lincoln Road D11, where at least they are new and purely private residential plus MRT.
Another location near Orchard where many home buyers have overlooked would be Balmoral Road. Granted it may seem congested at times given that there are many projects side by side, but I feel it is great value especially one Belmond Green, which is pretty new and attractive to expats. The area is low rise with a 1.8 or 2.4 plot ratio, which means density-wise it should be pretty low as well.
Do take a look as well across the road in D11, some old condos inside Chancery Lane and Gilstead Road. And we mustn't forget Dunearn Gardens right before Newton roundabout, it doesn't look like it is going en bloc soon in this market and it has a good potential GFA, the compound is still very well-maintained for a 17 year old. Low profile and has escaped the attention of many pundits.
please be my best friend ...
dun like clementi area, no room for potential growth. next to highway, v dusty and noisy
i would rather get pasir panjang projects - if they do relocate the port one day, might have room for growth
relocate the port?! impossible.... :cool:
Oh I forgot Kim Yam Heights. Overlooking temple, but if cheap then ok lar. But also remember there will be The Wharf Residences and the Frasers condo coming up on the Far East Mansion site. For such a small road, this is going to get pretty congested.
hmnnn... look like no good place to stay in SG... canot afford those central prime area also... :banghead:
Brother, looks like you haven't read what proud owner has been writing. Buy a good older property in prime area for a low price then renovate.
proud owner
18-02-09, 08:25
Brother, looks like you haven't read what proud owner has been writing. Buy a good older property in prime area for a low price then renovate.
ahhaha
thanks for all the compliments ... i was expecting to be 'suan' for all my tips ... didnt expect i have followers ...thank you all
and Ahlahdin ... i do follow your comments alot as well ...think you make alot of sense..(common with mine hahah)
yes when i mentioned D11 ... i meant the novena/balestier side of it .. also i feel its such a scam ..when they sold Sky@Eleven as D11 ...i feel its such a cheat ..its actually 'next to' Toa payoh hahaha
it will be another 'Thomson 800' ...
ahhaha
thanks for all the compliments ... i was expecting to be 'suan' for all my tips ... didnt expect i have followers ...thank you all
and Ahlahdin ... i do follow your comments alot as well ...think you make alot of sense..(common with mine hahah)
yes when i mentioned D11 ... i meant the novena/balestier side of it .. also i feel its such a scam ..when they sold Sky@Eleven as D11 ...i feel its such a cheat ..its actually 'next to' Toa payoh hahaha
it will be another 'Thomson 800' ...
proud owner, pls. advice me. budget 750k+ only, looking for 3rm own stay. prefer quiet but not super ulur place. prefer new project or 2-3 years old. thanks
proud owner
18-02-09, 09:28
proud owner, pls. advice me. budget 750k+ only, looking for 3rm own stay. prefer quiet but not super ulur place. prefer new project or 2-3 years old. thanks
hi
you need to consider your office location , any kids attending school ... etc etc ...
if you can give me more info pls
hi
you need to consider your office location , any kids attending school ... etc etc ...
if you can give me more info pls
1. working at central area
2. No kids yet
3. Planing to get a car after condo
4. Prefer area near to nature
5. Not far from makan place
6. Budget 750k+, FH, 3rm, >1100sqft.
tx
proud owner
18-02-09, 09:58
1. working at central area
2. No kids yet
3. Planing to get a car after condo
4. Prefer area near to nature
5. Not far from makan place
6. Budget 750k+, FH, 3rm, >1100sqft.
tx
check your inbox
things are looking worse and worse.
i've sent in for valuation a unit at a pretty prestigious project in the core central region. the price i'm looking at is already heavily discounted by 50% from peak. and even now, is considered a low price
but out of 4 banks i have enquired, only 1 bank is able to match that valuation
don't even talk about pent up demand, if the banks can't support, doesn't matter how much demand also sure kena
proud owner
18-02-09, 16:14
things are looking worse and worse.
i've sent in for valuation a unit at a pretty prestigious project in the core central region. the price i'm looking at is already heavily discounted by 50% from peak. and even now, is considered a low price
but out of 4 banks i have enquired, only 1 bank is able to match that valuation
don't even talk about pent up demand, if the banks can't support, doesn't matter how much demand also sure kena
thanks for your input on valuation by banks ...
that proves my point about OA .. if you have 2 units that ...bought at launch, on DPS..and only now trying to secure a loan ..do you think you can get a good loan ?
those who cannot will have to come out more cash .. ? do they have ?
what happens then ?
come TOP sure kena forced to 'force sell' .....
OA 700 psf coming .. i am not 'black hearted' ... but just want to warn those who still think its 900-950 psf ...
Property_Owner
18-02-09, 16:47
thanks for your input on valuation by banks ...
that proves my point about OA .. if you have 2 units that ...bought at launch, on DPS..and only now trying to secure a loan ..do you think you can get a good loan ?
those who cannot will have to come out more cash .. ? do they have ?
what happens then ?
come TOP sure kena forced to 'force sell' .....
OA 700 psf coming .. i am not 'black hearted' ... but just want to warn those who still think its 900-950 psf ...
I also hope OA will hit 700 then move in to buy, but come how at current market always find out there's sucker willing to pay 800++. Hope e unit I' eyeing will not be sold:)
check your inbox
Originally Posted by noblebaby
1. working at central area
2. No kids yet
3. Planing to get a car after condo
4. Prefer area near to nature
5. Not far from makan place
6. Budget 750k+, FH, 3rm, >1100sqft.
tx
Proud owner,
I almost match his profile, can also send to me the list?
Want to make sure I have not missed out on a good deal. Tks
proud owner
18-02-09, 17:06
wow so many potential buyers ?
things are looking worse and worse.
i've sent in for valuation a unit at a pretty prestigious project in the core central region. the price i'm looking at is already heavily discounted by 50% from peak. and even now, is considered a low price
but out of 4 banks i have enquired, only 1 bank is able to match that valuation
don't even talk about pent up demand, if the banks can't support, doesn't matter how much demand also sure kena
any fees for doing the valuation by banks? can suka suka ask them value property? :scared-2:
Agree... TE = $699psf, OA = $599psf, TSV = $799 then move in to talk to agents/owners :)
I was wondering why you expect price of Esta is higher than OA? can share?
BTW, Esta TOP this year, right? and OA in 2010? or it is delayed?
What do you think of Iresidences at Irrawady road?
I like the finishing of showroom by novelty... area, think ok...
East Lover
18-02-09, 21:32
things are looking worse and worse.
i've sent in for valuation a unit at a pretty prestigious project in the core central region. the price i'm looking at is already heavily discounted by 50% from peak. and even now, is considered a low price
but out of 4 banks i have enquired, only 1 bank is able to match that valuation
don't even talk about pent up demand, if the banks can't support, doesn't matter how much demand also sure kena
Wow... btw, what's the sequence? offer first, then use the agreement to apply loan? or just submit the property details with your personal income info to bank, to ask loan approval in principal???
I totally agree with proud owner. if loan getting tighten harder and harder, OA will sure have more force sales very soon, as not all of the owners can manage to have loan...
East Lover
18-02-09, 21:38
thanks for your input on valuation by banks ...
that proves my point about OA .. if you have 2 units that ...bought at launch, on DPS..and only now trying to secure a loan ..do you think you can get a good loan ?
those who cannot will have to come out more cash .. ? do they have ?
what happens then ?
come TOP sure kena forced to 'force sell' .....
OA 700 psf coming .. i am not 'black hearted' ... but just want to warn those who still think its 900-950 psf ...
when OA comes to 599 psf, will it be considered as a good buy comparing with the old projects in D09? of course they will be cheaper also...
anyways i have today given a cheque for option fee at the sail.
right or wrong, i needed a place to stay and this is to me not an investment property. first owner sold at a loss, and i bought it extremely close to launch price. it will go down further by about 10%, that i have no doubt. but the right unit came out at the right price, i don't want to rent till 3Q, and the interest rate/bank willingness to lend was still there.
i don't try to time the bottom, not with bonds poised to become trash and gold is signaling to me possible mass inflation soon.
i bought based on what i could afford 100% serviced from cpf w/o cash topup, and the fact that this is one of only two under construction/TOPed properties located in an area where the govt is pumping in billions in terms of infrastructure, recreational and landscaping. no other locality in singapore is offering that
the steps are:
- get valuation
- submit documents
- get inprinciple
- pay 1%/5% for option
- get loan offer paper
- accept offer
- exercise option
- let lawyers settle
- collect key
East Lover
18-02-09, 21:46
anyways i have today given a cheque for option fee at the sail.
right or wrong, i needed a place to stay and this is to me not an investment property. first owner sold at a loss, and i bought it extremely close to launch price. it will go down further by about 10%, that i have no doubt. but the right unit came out at the right price, i don't want to rent till 3Q, and the interest rate/bank willingness to lend was still there
the steps are:
- get valuation
- submit documents
- get inprinciple
- pay 1%/5% for option
- get loan offer paper
- accept offer
- exercise option
- let lawyers settle
- collect key
thanks for the knowledge sharing :)
congrate to you, finally find a nice place, in the beautiful marina bay! :spliff:
is it bay view? how long have you spent house hunting on the sail?
anyways i have today given a cheque for option fee at the sail.
right or wrong, i needed a place to stay and this is to me not an investment property. first owner sold at a loss, and i bought it extremely close to launch price. it will go down further by about 10%, that i have no doubt. but the right unit came out at the right price, i don't want to rent till 3Q, and the interest rate/bank willingness to lend was still there
the steps are:
- get valuation
- submit documents
- get inprinciple
- pay 1%/5% for option
- get loan offer paper
- accept offer
- exercise option
- let lawyers settle
- collect key
Just curious to know if you are looking for stay, why dont rent a unit instead of making a purchase? Considering, even in 3Q, rental demand will be expected to remain weak.
anyways i have today given a cheque for option fee at the sail.
right or wrong, i needed a place to stay and this is to me not an investment property. first owner sold at a loss, and i bought it extremely close to launch price. it will go down further by about 10%, that i have no doubt. but the right unit came out at the right price, i don't want to rent till 3Q, and the interest rate/bank willingness to lend was still there
the steps are:
- get valuation
- submit documents
- get inprinciple
- pay 1%/5% for option
- get loan offer paper
- accept offer
- exercise option
- let lawyers settle
- collect key
Congrats.......get the deal done soon so bros here can see what price the price have come down too
anyways i have today given a cheque for option fee at the sail.
right or wrong, i needed a place to stay and this is to me not an investment property. first owner sold at a loss, and i bought it extremely close to launch price. it will go down further by about 10%, that i have no doubt. but the right unit came out at the right price, i don't want to rent till 3Q, and the interest rate/bank willingness to lend was still there
the steps are:
- get valuation
- submit documents
- get inprinciple
- pay 1%/5% for option
- get loan offer paper
- accept offer
- exercise option
- let lawyers settle
- collect key
Just curious to know if you are looking for stay, why dont rent a unit instead of making a purchase? Considering, even in 3Q, rental demand will be expected to remain weak.. it seems that economic recovery in end of 09 is
thanks for the knowledge sharing :)
congrate to you, finally find a nice place, in the beautiful marina bay! :spliff:
is it bay view? how long have you spent house hunting on the sail?
half of the unit gets bay view, half gets park view. windows face the IR and central park.
i have explored everything!!!! from single storey old houses in d15 and serangoon gardens for me to stay first, then rebuild (abt $1m for 2800 sq ft in serangoon gdns, next to SGCC)
to beacon edge, buckley residences ($800psf FH penthouse btw - too small for me but got potential!) etc etc
my car has really clocked up many miles over the months!!!!!
Just curious to know if you are looking for stay, why dont rent a unit instead of making a purchase? Considering, even in 3Q, rental demand will be expected to remain weak.. it seems that economic recovery in end of 09 is
the economy will not improve till 2010 UNLESS banks start lending. the moment a govt SME bank is setup in singapore, things will improve.
i am a little atas and will not rent a hdb. renting a 2 rm in the sail or similar marques will exceed the monthly loan servicing + conservancy. my interest rate is 1.89%, 1 year lock in, interest rate revised annually not quarterly.
i needed to balance the concerns i had. obama signing the trillion $ stimulus and gold breaking $1k was my trigger. my concerns were, however misguided:
- when banks start lending, mass inflation starts
- willingness of banks to lend
- continuation of low interest rates basically subsidized by the singapore govt
again, do not follow my stead. proud owner's strategy is really the most sound.
but i am a believer that if there is stability (not a rebound, but not a great depression) in the coming years, once the IR and the billions pumped into the bay area comes to fruition, that area will be the new downtown and could potentially supplant suntec/orchard to an extent.
East Lover
18-02-09, 21:59
half of the unit gets bay view, half gets park view. windows face the IR and central park.
i have explored everything!!!! from single storey old houses in d15 and serangoon gardens for me to stay first, then rebuild (abt $1m for 2800 sq ft in serangoon gdns, next to SGCC)
to beacon edge, buckley residences ($800psf FH penthouse btw - too small for me but got potential!) etc etc
my car has really clocked up many miles over the months!!!!!
yah, and you went to D10, D11 also... hard working finally paid back! Good! Good!
you said "extremely close to launch price." so lucky! i heard the launch price was around 900psf??? it went to $2K psf in 2007! Good buy leh!
can share some more???
i am not trying to talk down the market but people, from my extensive research and speaking to all sorts of people, it will do you well to stay away from D15.
Newton started from $800 in 04/05 to peak $2000, and back down to $800 level now.
Orchard started from $1000 to peak $3000, and back down to $1000 level now
Marina bay started from $1000 to peak $3000, and back down close to $1000 level now.
Katong started from $400 to peak $2000, and back down to $800 now. It has not come down as fast as the rest! why? because majority of D15 are in local hands vs the other areas which are in foreign hands.
case in point, ALL of one amber units i looked at were local owners. None of the units in the sail i looked at were locally owned. the guy who sold me the unit lost money after inputing agent's commission and stamp duty. i haven't even factored in bank interest or bank penalty
Congrads gfoo! having followed your posts up to today, even your reasons for buying a unit now tie quite closely to my sentiments for buying a unit at D15 now than wait till Q3 or Q4.
Sail is a very good buy indeed. Next time can walk to IR and try your luck at gambling too. Summore got fireworks and this year F1 dun need to crowd with ppl. Can enjoy from your own living room.
Me still very undecided on how the market will move in the next 3-6 mths...so still hesitating on committing. :sleep: also cannot peacefully shut down my thinking cap.
yah, and you went to D10, D11 also... hard working finally paid back! Good! Good!
you said "extremely close to launch price." so lucky! i heard the launch price was around 900psf??? it went to $2K psf in 2007! Good buy leh!
can share some more???
go to ura site, go to realis, pay $80 and print out the entire development transactions over the years. you will be able to find the actual unit number's cost and transaction price, and even the owner lol.
the sail lowest launch price was about $900, highest was about $1200. it's about facing
i paid above $1000 for sure. but almost at the same price as the owner paid the developer.
Congrads gfoo! having followed your posts up to today, even your reasons for buying a unit now tie quite closely to my sentiments for buying a unit at D15 now than wait till Q3 or Q4.
Sail is a very good buy indeed. Next time can walk to IR and try your luck at gambling too. Summore got fireworks and this year F1 dun need to crowd with ppl. Can enjoy from your own living room.
Me still very undecided on how the market will move in the next 3-6 mths...so still hesitating on committing. :sleep: also cannot peacefully shut down my thinking cap.
thanks dude - lol i never gamble, not even 4D/Toto. my sins are smoking, watches and pens. lol
you have to differentiate my sentiments with the actualities of OA/Esta. Just like SOHO@ Central, it does not take much of a jump to convert rentals at the Sail into office rentals. when economy recovers, you have a secondary rental market - and due to the new roads and huge planning area, strangely the bay is not as dense as amber road/mountbatten road.
that is my fear for D15. Too many greedy developers have tore down 2-3 terraces to build 50 unit apartments. this phenomenon is very unique to telok kurau and katong. developers have leveraged on the 'east coast story' to sucker buyers as historically it is a location people aspire to.
if you really must get d15, get one amber. esta and tsv do not make sense
go to ura site, go to realis, pay $80 and print out the entire development transactions over the years. you will be able to find the actual unit number's cost and transaction price, and even the owner lol.
the sail lowest launch price was about $900, highest was about $1200. it's about facing
i paid above $1000 for sure. but almost at the same price as the owner paid the developer.
How many room(s) for the above, may I ask?
wanted to also add that many CCR properties launched in 04/05 like icon, citylights and the sail - they have virtually no planter/baywindow space.
unlike aristo and luma, where PES is almost 30% of your unit.
thus effectively, i get the same livable area as an aristo unit that is 30% larger - i save 30% $$$ :)
How many room(s) for the above, may I ask?
2 plus a small study
check your inbox
Hi Proud Owner
could u please also share your list with me? thanks.
half of the unit gets bay view, half gets park view. windows face the IR and central park.
congrats! urs is tower 2 isit?
Congrats GFOO! :)
Must be excited after looking for so long..
and to settle at such a wonderful location! :)
Means every special holiday.. you will enjoy the wonderful FIREWORKS without needing to book hotel rooms to view it! *ENVY*
Makes me tempted to buy Sail as an investment.
Just curious, Sail is 99yrs, so after 99 yrs, will it be given back to govt? or is the developer holding a 999yrs lease on it?
If developer is holding 999yrs lease on it.. would it be possible that when time comes for enbloc.. The developer will have a hold on the development as they are the one who can extend the lease(other developers might lose interest). So would that affect the enbloc price?
Congrats GFOO! :)
Must be excited after looking for so long..
and to settle at such a wonderful location! :)
Means every special holiday.. you will enjoy the wonderful FIREWORKS without needing to book hotel rooms to view it! *ENVY*
Makes me tempted to buy Sail as an investment.
Just curious, Sail is 99yrs, so after 99 yrs, will it be given back to govt? or is the developer holding a 999yrs lease on it?
If developer is holding 999yrs lease on it.. would it be possible that when time comes for enbloc.. The developer will have a hold on the development as they are the one who can extend the lease(other developers might lose interest). So would that affect the enbloc price?
i believe all land in mbay area is 99 year lease. giving it to cdl for 999 years is tantamount to holding the govt by its balls. correct me if i am wrong
compared to other 99 year developments out there, this has the highest potential for lease extension due to the marque of the development. enbloc potential too to redevelop into high-end commercial. similar to las vegas
i am not trying to talk down the market but people, from my extensive research and speaking to all sorts of people, it will do you well to stay away from D15.
Newton started from $800 in 04/05 to peak $2000, and back down to $800 level now.
Orchard started from $1000 to peak $3000, and back down to $1000 level now
Marina bay started from $1000 to peak $3000, and back down close to $1000 level now.
newton and orchard got drop by so much meh?? :confused:
i believe all land in mbay area is 99 year lease. giving it to cdl for 999 years is tantamount to holding the govt by its balls. correct me if i am wrong
compared to other 99 year developments out there, this has the highest potential for lease extension due to the marque of the development. enbloc potential too to redevelop into high-end commercial. similar to las vegas
Woo.. Exciting.. ! :)
I will keep a lookout for units in the sail.
But only those with bayview... and not to the side of One Raffles.
Also interested in SOHO@Central as it is situated perfectly ..MRT, River, Entertainment,Food and offices.
anyways i have today given a cheque for option fee at the sail.
right or wrong, i needed a place to stay and this is to me not an investment property. first owner sold at a loss, and i bought it extremely close to launch price. it will go down further by about 10%, that i have no doubt. but the right unit came out at the right price, i don't want to rent till 3Q, and the interest rate/bank willingness to lend was still there.
i don't try to time the bottom, not with bonds poised to become trash and gold is signaling to me possible mass inflation soon.
i bought based on what i could afford 100% serviced from cpf w/o cash topup, and the fact that this is one of only two under construction/TOPed properties located in an area where the govt is pumping in billions in terms of infrastructure, recreational and landscaping. no other locality in singapore is offering that
the steps are:
- get valuation
- submit documents
- get inprinciple
- pay 1%/5% for option
- get loan offer paper
- accept offer
- exercise option
- let lawyers settle
- collect key
What is your downpayment? 600k? Since you can service the loan using CPF without top-up cash...
if you really must get d15, get one amber. esta and tsv do not make sense
May I know wht's your reason? for TSV i think it's obvious to me... However I've always thought tht Esta is a better project compared to OA, it has got a larger plot and lesser units( dunno wht's the exact plot ratio though) compared to OA...
East Lover
19-02-09, 13:40
May I know wht's your reason? for TSV i think it's obvious to me... However I've always thought tht Esta is a better project compared to OA, it has got a larger plot and lesser units( dunno wht's the exact plot ratio though) compared to OA...
me too! frankly speaking, i really duno how to appreciate the funny layout and direction in the OA. it seems almost all the 3 or 3+1 units have a dinning room facing neighbour's inner wall (or window) ? a lot of bay window every where... as what gfoo said, that eaten a lot of actual livable area.
so i prefer Esta to OA. however, is OA drop to 599 psf, while Esta still die die asking 900 psf, that's another story liao
me too! frankly speaking, i really duno how to appreciate the funny layout and direction in the OA. it seems almost all the 3 or 3+1 units have a dinning room facing neighbour's inner wall (or window) ? a lot of bay window every where... as what gfoo said, that eaten a lot of actual livable area.
so i prefer Esta to OA. however, is OA drop to 599 psf, while Esta still die die asking 900 psf, that's another story liao
Yes, the dining room is a pain in the @rse.
OA is simply because of price - it is 15% cheaper at today's prices than Esta, and has a potentially superior view (limited stacks) and larger groundspace. There is also a mitigation of traffic as it has both amber and tanjong katong road serving it, including the traditional amber entry road on the joo chiat road side.
Unlike Esta and TSV, whose view will be blocked by both silversea, and the plot behind TSV, 2/3s of OA overhangs the sliproad to ecp, and low rise terraces of meyer/tg katong. nothing can be built there to block OA and aalto is rather far off and thin in profile. you will get good seaview/city views.
The grounds area of OA is way superior to Esta size wise. it is architecturally better laid out. It is hard to imagine the landscaping till TOP, but if architects impression is 75% true, it will feel rather resort like.
I am a firm believer in quality of life, and that if you buy a property with a good feel, it has a better potential to appreciate and easier to sell.
That is why i condemn properties like poshgrove etc - concrete pavements instead of lush landscaping to save costs - makes it feel like living in a cemetary. but for all the small properties out there, i like the layout and grounds of Ola the best - i love water. too bad Ola is still overpriced
The biggest problems D15 will face once (and it is already happening) is a tremendous traffic problem. there will not be an mrt till 2015, thus once all the telok kurau, OA etc etc TOP, there will be a traffic crunch.
many orchard road properties are valuing using this formula:
Living space @ fair current value
PES @ 1/2 current value
banks are similarly valuing as such
do not pay full value for PES. the govt has changed the ruling, down the road nobody will want to pay for that
a 1000psf no PES apartment feels bigger than a 1300psf apartment with tons of balcony and bay windows.
East Lover
19-02-09, 14:05
many orchard road properties are valuing using this formula:
Living space @ fair current value
PES @ 1/2 current value
banks are similarly valuing as such
do not pay full value for PES. the govt has changed the ruling, down the road nobody will want to pay for that
a 1000psf no PES apartment feels bigger than a 1300psf apartment with tons of balcony and bay windows.
totally agree that! hate baywindow everywhere, nowadays can not just believe the floor plan, must measure the actual living space.
East Lover
19-02-09, 14:18
2 questions
1) what's the best price for the followings
1. A very old project in D09 with 3 bed rooms, no such bay window non-sense - 1350 sqft =>800K?
2. A 3 bedder unit at OA -1313*599 => $780K?
3. 2 + 1 unit at marina bay =>1 mil?
2) which one will you choose if you have to choose only one of them?
OA at $599psf?? If have, then i'll choose OA.
Property_Owner
19-02-09, 14:21
anyways i have today given a cheque for option fee at the sail.
right or wrong, i needed a place to stay and this is to me not an investment property. first owner sold at a loss, and i bought it extremely close to launch price. it will go down further by about 10%, that i have no doubt. but the right unit came out at the right price, i don't want to rent till 3Q, and the interest rate/bank willingness to lend was still there.
i don't try to time the bottom, not with bonds poised to become trash and gold is signaling to me possible mass inflation soon.
i bought based on what i could afford 100% serviced from cpf w/o cash topup, and the fact that this is one of only two under construction/TOPed properties located in an area where the govt is pumping in billions in terms of infrastructure, recreational and landscaping. no other locality in singapore is offering that
the steps are:
- get valuation
- submit documents
- get inprinciple
- pay 1%/5% for option
- get loan offer paper
- accept offer
- exercise option
- let lawyers settle
- collect key
Is there a pillar in your unit layout? Btw did you consider before MBR?
Is there a pillar in your unit layout? Btw did you consider before MBR?
no pillar. rooms are pretty much all squarish.
Is there a pillar in your unit layout? Btw did you consider before MBR?
qfoo need a ready place to stay, MBR is not even half finished :o
OA at $599psf?? If have, then i'll choose OA.
I think for it to go down to $599 would be a stretch too imaginative... The preview price was 650psf, launch price 700psf? i'm not sure...
Property_Owner
19-02-09, 15:13
I think for it to go down to $599 would be a stretch too imaginative... The preview price was 650psf, launch price 700psf? i'm not sure...
700++ for 3/4 rooms. 800++ for 2 rooms and studio, I was there during launch. Too bad didn't buy cause I bought others at that time already:(
Will hope to see prices reduced. Maybe 700++ will buy.
2 questions
1) what's the best price for the followings
1. A very old project in D09 with 3 bed rooms, no such bay window non-sense - 1350 sqft =>800K?
2. A 3 bedder unit at OA -1313*599 => $780K?
3. 2 + 1 unit at marina bay =>1 mil?
2) which one will you choose if you have to choose only one of them?
this was a very tough one, and it was between OA at $700psf and the sail. after minusing out the PES, livable area for both were more or less the same.
i dunno. i was thinking and thinking and thinking. i'm gonna think aloud here again.
the majority of infrastructure tenders and investments the government is committing to is going into mbay area - almost 2/3s of all declared. and this was a govt-only project, not a private-public JV like kallang watersports park. other govt only commitments are one-north, punggol21, and lakeside.
out of these four areas, the only places that have actual work starting in a significant way is mbay and one-north. out of these two, one-north to me is more business centric, and amazing as it sounds, i find the sail less business, more recreation/entertainment.
as mentioned, i like quality of life and there are things that money cannot buy. here are the pros that have made me decide on the sail:
- it is by far the windiest place in Singapore around the clock, even east coast right now is still air.
- there is a sense of vibrancy at the Sail, esp once MBFC and IR is completed
- i like the fact that i can cycle to work in my cannondale, walk to laupasat for makan, and once the park and gardensbythebay is built, have an entire landscape in my backyard to relak
- i believe mbay will supplant orchard in time to come
- i wake up, i see the central park. i go to my study, i see the bay and IR
cons:
- banks apparently hate to extend loans to buy the sail
- construction workers will be my best friends and neighbours
people, what say you? option is 1% nia. i still have time to not exercise :)
in addition, i personally feel that no matter how stupid and idiotic the buyers of alexis and caspian are, they reflect pent up demand.
Why a person will pay $1100psf for alexis vs almost the same for the Sail or even lesser for OA is beyond me.
i am not buying it at the bottom. i am buying at close to launch price.
it will go down further by maybe 7-10% or so, making it 10% below launch price. that is acceptable, as if i don't buy and rent now, it might cost the same.
at 10% below cost, disposing of the sail minus penalties etc makes that 15-20% below cost. owners would rather keep and wait for mbay to be up
in addition, i personally feel that no matter how stupid and idiotic the buyers of alexis and caspian are, they reflect pent up demand.
Why a person will pay $1100psf for alexis vs almost the same for the Sail or even lesser for OA is beyond me.
i am not buying it at the bottom. i am buying at close to launch price.
it will go down further by maybe 7-10% or so, making it 10% below launch price. that is acceptable, as if i don't buy and rent now, it might cost the same.
at 10% below cost, disposing of the sail minus penalties etc makes that 15-20% below cost. owners would rather keep and wait for mbay to be up
alexis one is mickey mouse units to quote the media, the quantum being forked out to buy is low..
was at caspian showroom, can tell most r hdb upgraders. bcos HDB prices r simply too high now, hence the mental switch to fork out a little more for a pte condo is there ~
i see this pent up demand being met as a gd sign, cos it means liquidity will slowly drain out of the mkt .. n then there will be blood lol
alexis one is mickey mouse units to quote the media, the quantum being forked out to buy is low..
was at caspian showroom, can tell most r hdb upgraders. bcos HDB prices r simply too high now, hence the mental switch to fork out a little more for a pte condo is there ~
i see this pent up demand being met as a gd sign, cos it means liquidity will slowly drain out of the mkt .. n then there will be blood lol
oh well, let's see how the winds blow. 1% nia, just dun send my watches for servicing this year lor
Hi east lover bro, looks like gfoo has dropped out and we are the only die hard east loving people.
To share my dilemma with all in this thread, I wanna buy D15 cos I wanna stay near parents. Our family is die hard east people. I even contemplate buying one of those conserved shophouse along katong area to stay.
This time round, I am looking for a long term stay place. And considering Esta and OA, I am still leaning to Esta cos of layout. However, this mathematical problem (if only I got A in F Maths) is... if 6 mths down the road, price of OA drops to 700psf, I can get a 1701 sq ft unit for less than 1.2mil. Compared to if I bargain down Esta lets say best bargain is 800psf, then i will still need to fork out 1.248mil for a 1561sq ft unit at Esta.
And by year end, Esta would have TOP-ed for one year, whilst OA is brand new. So how? I know eveyone betting on market crash, but crash by how much?? Everyone is just speculating 500psf, but will that really happen??:confused:
Can Lee Ka Shing offer us some advise?
Hi east lover bro, looks like gfoo has dropped out and we are the only die hard east loving people.
To share my dilemma with all in this thread, I wanna buy D15 cos I wanna stay near parents. Our family is die hard east people. I even contemplate buying one of those conserved shophouse along katong area to stay.
This time round, I am looking for a long term stay place. And considering Esta and OA, I am still leaning to Esta cos of layout. However, this mathematical problem (if only I got A in F Maths) is... if 6 mths down the road, price of OA drops to 700psf, I can get a 1701 sq ft unit for less than 1.2mil. Compared to if I bargain down Esta lets say best bargain is 800psf, then i will still need to fork out 1.248mil for a 1561sq ft unit at Esta.
And by year end, Esta would have TOP-ed for one year, whilst OA is brand new. So how? I know eveyone betting on market crash, but crash by how much?? Everyone is just speculating 500psf, but will that really happen??:confused:
I'm waiting the DJI to go down below 6800... :simmering:
I'm waiting the DJI to go down below 6800... :simmering:
I will keep my cash if market crash....:scared-4: Unless I have so much spare cash, no chance of buying property
Congrats GFOO! :)
Must be excited after looking for so long..
and to settle at such a wonderful location! :)
Means every special holiday.. you will enjoy the wonderful FIREWORKS without needing to book hotel rooms to view it! *ENVY*
Makes me tempted to buy Sail as an investment.
Just curious, Sail is 99yrs, so after 99 yrs, will it be given back to govt? or is the developer holding a 999yrs lease on it?
If developer is holding 999yrs lease on it.. would it be possible that when time comes for enbloc.. The developer will have a hold on the development as they are the one who can extend the lease(other developers might lose interest). So would that affect the enbloc price?
99yrs... if a 999lh or fh land is redeveloped into 99yrs lease new project, old owner not allowed to sell till lease ends which land is surrendered back...
:)
Pet
this was a very tough one, and it was between OA at $700psf and the sail. after minusing out the PES, livable area for both were more or less the same.
i dunno. i was thinking and thinking and thinking. i'm gonna think aloud here again.
the majority of infrastructure tenders and investments the government is committing to is going into mbay area - almost 2/3s of all declared. and this was a govt-only project, not a private-public JV like kallang watersports park. other govt only commitments are one-north, punggol21, and lakeside.
out of these four areas, the only places that have actual work starting in a significant way is mbay and one-north. out of these two, one-north to me is more business centric, and amazing as it sounds, i find the sail less business, more recreation/entertainment.
as mentioned, i like quality of life and there are things that money cannot buy. here are the pros that have made me decide on the sail:
- it is by far the windiest place in Singapore around the clock, even east coast right now is still air.
- there is a sense of vibrancy at the Sail, esp once MBFC and IR is completed
- i like the fact that i can cycle to work in my cannondale, walk to laupasat for makan, and once the park and gardensbythebay is built, have an entire landscape in my backyard to relak
- i believe mbay will supplant orchard in time to come
- i wake up, i see the central park. i go to my study, i see the bay and IR
cons:
- banks apparently hate to extend loans to buy the sail
- construction workers will be my best friends and neighbours
people, what say you? option is 1% nia. i still have time to not exercise :)
no need to think bro... just exercise and move in... its a really good buy and you love it!!! anyway, you wouldnt need to fork out much cash too... need help on bank loan let me know... I should be able to help i guess..
:)
Pet
East Lover
20-02-09, 08:46
this was a very tough one, and it was between OA at $700psf and the sail. after minusing out the PES, livable area for both were more or less the same.
i dunno. i was thinking and thinking and thinking. i'm gonna think aloud here again.
the majority of infrastructure tenders and investments the government is committing to is going into mbay area - almost 2/3s of all declared. and this was a govt-only project, not a private-public JV like kallang watersports park. other govt only commitments are one-north, punggol21, and lakeside.
out of these four areas, the only places that have actual work starting in a significant way is mbay and one-north. out of these two, one-north to me is more business centric, and amazing as it sounds, i find the sail less business, more recreation/entertainment.
as mentioned, i like quality of life and there are things that money cannot buy. here are the pros that have made me decide on the sail:
- it is by far the windiest place in Singapore around the clock, even east coast right now is still air.
- there is a sense of vibrancy at the Sail, esp once MBFC and IR is completed
- i like the fact that i can cycle to work in my cannondale, walk to laupasat for makan, and once the park and gardensbythebay is built, have an entire landscape in my backyard to relak
- i believe mbay will supplant orchard in time to come
- i wake up, i see the central park. i go to my study, i see the bay and IR
cons:
- banks apparently hate to extend loans to buy the sail
- construction workers will be my best friends and neighbours
people, what say you? option is 1% nia. i still have time to not exercise :)
gfoo, don't worry so much. since it's for your own stay, as long as you like it and can afford it, doesn't matter how much it will drop further liao. What if wait 6 more mth, this idea unit sold already? And you have to pay 6 more mth expensive rental, right?
if you stay in OA, u have to own a car. if you stay in the sail, you can relay on public transport 100% liao - cheap & good. if you calculate the cost of owning a car+ car park+ ERP+ petrol+road tax, over 10 years, maybe around $100K?
Envy you, you will have a million dollar bay view everyday. sounds so good! :spliff:
just one little thing: do you have any young kids (or are you planning to have a kid)? there is any good school in downtown?
if you stay at OA, you may have quite a number of choices as Tao Nan, Katong primary schools are all nearby...;)
proud owner
20-02-09, 08:52
no need to think bro... just exercise and move in... its a really good buy and you love it!!! anyway, you wouldnt need to fork out much cash too... need help on bank loan let me know... I should be able to help i guess..
:)
Pet
hey guys i am back ...was on half day leave yesterday ...doing my favorite past time ..driving around , looking for Good Buys ..saw some semi-D's in holland / coronation /watten area ... didnt find anything interesting ... ended up at Rochalie ...knn ...kena stopped by traffic police as Mr PM Lee was on his way home ...made me stopped at road junction for a while ...sigh....
i notice very good conversation here ..and i like that ..lots of good advice/info going round ...
gfoo ..i agree with your analysis on Sail ...
as for east coast lover ... i still wont want to go there ...really too cramp for my comfort ..
if you recall my article sometime back .. Marina will be new town ..very few cars allowed in , all travel by train ...
raffles place will become old town ...
Sail will be the gateway ..between old and new ..good choice ...
i also mentioned that during all downturn / recession ...govt always hold back on outskirt projects ..BUT never on prime area ...Orchard and now Marina ...so GFOO is so right with his analysis ...
Property_Owner
20-02-09, 08:55
hey guys i am back ...was on half day leave yesterday ...doing my favorite past time ..driving around , looking for Good Buys ..saw some semi-D's in holland / coronation /watten area ... didnt find anything interesting ... ended up at Rochalie ...knn ...kena stopped by traffic police as Mr PM Lee was on his way home ...made me stopped at road junction for a while ...sigh....
i notice very good conversation here ..and i like that ..lots of good advice/info going round ...
gfoo ..i agree with your analysis on Sail ...
as for east coast lover ... i still wont want to go there ...really too cramp for my comfort ..
if you recall my article sometime back .. Marina will be new town ..very few cars allowed in , all travel by train ...
raffles place will become old town ...
Sail will be the gateway ..between old and new ..good choice ...
i also mentioned that during all downturn / recession ...govt always hold back on outskirt projects ..BUT never on prime area ...Orchard and now Marina ...so GFOO is so right with his analysis ...
Most important thing is IR must not fail!!!! That's the pride of Singapore! Too bad that flyer.......
East Lover
20-02-09, 09:00
Hi east lover bro, looks like gfoo has dropped out and we are the only die hard east loving people.
To share my dilemma with all in this thread, I wanna buy D15 cos I wanna stay near parents. Our family is die hard east people. I even contemplate buying one of those conserved shophouse along katong area to stay.
This time round, I am looking for a long term stay place. And considering Esta and OA, I am still leaning to Esta cos of layout. However, this mathematical problem (if only I got A in F Maths) is... if 6 mths down the road, price of OA drops to 700psf, I can get a 1701 sq ft unit for less than 1.2mil. Compared to if I bargain down Esta lets say best bargain is 800psf, then i will still need to fork out 1.248mil for a 1561sq ft unit at Esta.
And by year end, Esta would have TOP-ed for one year, whilst OA is brand new. So how? I know eveyone betting on market crash, but crash by how much?? Everyone is just speculating 500psf, but will that really happen??:confused:
haha, any more bro in our east loving club? guess all influenced by proud owner and gfoo, and thinking of quitting from D15 liao? :p
yesterday i spent a hour to re-study the OA, and couldn't find any unit suitable!
1. if you want a pool view, it's north face and have road noise from heavy busy mounbaten road.
2. if you want sea view, most of the unit sure have strong afternoon sun, or facing the main entry.
3. And i don't like the butterfly layout, can't image the spacious feeling even 1500+ sqft
4. bay window everywhere, some unit even have baywind in dinning hall
5. unlike esta, seems all type of units' dinning hall is hidden inside, sure dark dark one
6. so many units per floor. good meh?
only it is good if the price drop drop like crazy. :D
proud owner
20-02-09, 09:19
[quote=East Lover]haha, any more bro in our east loving club? guess all influenced by proud owner and gfoo, and thinking of quitting from D15 liao? :p
sorry man .. dont mean to snatch your east loving club members ...
do you know that the 2 most populated areas in spore are East Coast and Hillview ?
thats why even during the peak 2007 ...Hillview condos never really recovered ... simply becos too many projects/units there ... somemore got ERP ...
quite similar situation to east coast ...
so ..if you like a certain location ... and yet cannot find one you like / feel comfortable in .... maybe thats a sign ... go somewhere else ...
buying house / home very often its about how you feel when you are in it.. if you dont feel comfy ..dont force yourself ..
New to this site bro. I saw one unit in January in Costa Del sol. We liked the unit and paid 1%. After paying 1% we read all the bad news in paper and though of backing out from the deal.
But then we thought that what if we dont get the unit like this one. So exercised the option and will be moving in March.
I think the most important thing in buying a house is that you must like it and feel good factor should be there. Yes, prices can go down but who can predict by how much. And if you are finding a good deal in current environment then why not.
New to this site bro. I saw one unit in January in Costa Del sol. We liked the unit and paid 1%. After paying 1% we read all the bad news in paper and thought of backing out from the deal.
But then we thought that what if we dont get the unit like this one. So exercised the option and will be moving in March.
I think that the most important thing in buying a house is that you must like it and feel good factor should be there. Yes, prices can go down but who can predict by how much. And if you are finding a good deal in current environment then why not.
hey guys i am back ...was on half day leave yesterday ...doing my favorite past time ..driving around , looking for Good Buys ..saw some semi-D's in holland / coronation /watten area ... didnt find anything interesting ... ended up at Rochalie ...knn ...kena stopped by traffic police as Mr PM Lee was on his way home ...made me stopped at road junction for a while ...sigh....
i notice very good conversation here ..and i like that ..lots of good advice/info going round ...
gfoo ..i agree with your analysis on Sail ...
as for east coast lover ... i still wont want to go there ...really too cramp for my comfort ..
if you recall my article sometime back .. Marina will be new town ..very few cars allowed in , all travel by train ...
raffles place will become old town ...
Sail will be the gateway ..between old and new ..good choice ...
i also mentioned that during all downturn / recession ...govt always hold back on outskirt projects ..BUT never on prime area ...Orchard and now Marina ...so GFOO is so right with his analysis ...
lol - i was also driving around there on the weekend - trying to find those lok kok single storey with huge land area.
i've come to a decision. i have 4 weeks to exercise my option anyway. if prices plunge in this period, i will go back to the owner to ask for a revised median price before exercising. at the same time, i will continue to shortlist for something better located/priced but still within the sail.
forego 1% to save 5-10%. makes a lot of sense to me.
East Lover
20-02-09, 09:59
..if you like a certain location ... and yet cannot find one you like / feel comfortable in .... maybe thats a sign ... go somewhere else ...
buying house / home very often its about how you feel when you are in it.. if you dont feel comfy ..dont force yourself ..
well say! guess our east loving club members will getting less and less since really don't have much choices in east coast now... :p
funny thing is just now STI is nearly to 1600 liao, possible to reach to 1200??? BUT how come the property price still not reach to post SARS or post 1997 level? the average psf still as high as early 2007???:banghead:
well say! guess our east loving club members will getting less and less since really don't have much choices in east coast now... :p
funny thing is just now STI is nearly to 1600 liao, possible to reach to 1200??? BUT how come the property price still not reach to post SARS or post 1997 level? the average psf still as high as early 2007???:banghead:
this i have learnt about too. :) it is all about who owns the project.
if the project, esp in D15, are primarily held by locals, you can betcha that some portion of the financing is using CPF to finance. As they are also vested in the future of Singapore, their transactional decisions are thus irrational. Even if they make a loss, they will hold as far as they can. The only thing that can shake this up are recalls by banks.
if the project, esp in D1 & D9, are primarily held by foreigners and corporates. They are purely on P&L, calculated on a quarterly basis. Transactional decisions are in line with market sentiment.
That is why the huge rise then fall in those districts. but D15 had a lag time of 6months for the rise, but will have an even longer lag time (if any) for a fall.
haha, any more bro in our east loving club? guess all influenced by proud owner and gfoo, and thinking of quitting from D15 liao? :p
D15 is like tiong bahru, there wont be shortage of demand for these 2 areas, either for own stay or investment. :D
haha, any more bro in our east loving club? guess all influenced by proud owner and gfoo, and thinking of quitting from D15 liao? :p
yesterday i spent a hour to re-study the OA, and couldn't find any unit suitable!
1. if you want a pool view, it's north face and have road noise from heavy busy mounbaten road.
2. if you want sea view, most of the unit sure have strong afternoon sun, or facing the main entry.
3. And i don't like the butterfly layout, can't image the spacious feeling even 1500+ sqft
4. bay window everywhere, some unit even have baywind in dinning hall
5. unlike esta, seems all type of units' dinning hall is hidden inside, sure dark dark one
6. so many units per floor. good meh?
only it is good if the price drop drop like crazy. :D
I feel the main drawback of OA is too many units per floor. The small units are the worst. They appear to be fillers after the large units were carved out.
The Esta definitely has more privacy (4 corner units per floor per block) and a better internal layout. Small units are designed to feel large because of the landscape balcony window. Back-to-back apartments' windows (e.g. kitchen to kitchen and dining to dining) don't face each other. A lot of people don't realise MCL Land is owned by the Jardine Group that has decades of experience in developing small apartments into comfortable homes in Hong Kong. As everyone knows, apartments in Singapore have shrunk and are still shrinking. It really takes an experienced developer to develop small units. UOL, developer of AO, is still a very local company. AO looks nice in the launch brochure. Wait till you move in and experience the crowd breathing down your neck.
East Lover
20-02-09, 13:13
lol - i was also driving around there on the weekend - trying to find those lok kok single storey with huge land area.
i've come to a decision. i have 4 weeks to exercise my option anyway. if prices plunge in this period, i will go back to the owner to ask for a revised median price before exercising. at the same time, i will continue to shortlist for something better located/priced but still within the sail.
forego 1% to save 5-10%. makes a lot of sense to me.
Hi gfoo bro, is the sail family oriented? any good school in downtown?
Hi gfoo bro, is the sail family oriented? any good school in downtown?
well, the facilities and such are commensurate with any other family condo out there - children's pool, play area, etc.
there is a childcare/nursery downstairs my wife's workplace so that's ok.
for schools i will use my old boys aff, my wife will use old girls, so distance is not an issue. lol - there were primary schools in amoy street and city hall, but that moved out centuries ago :doh: wasted
singapore is so small. if you drive and have good school affiliation, should not be a problem
btw OA maybe only haig and borderline chung cheng. it will not qualify for taonan or chij
East Lover
20-02-09, 17:34
well, the facilities and such are commensurate with any other family condo out there - children's pool, play area, etc.
there is a childcare/nursery downstairs my wife's workplace so that's ok.
for schools i will use my old boys aff, my wife will use old girls, so distance is not an issue. lol - there were primary schools in amoy street and city hall, but that moved out centuries ago :doh: wasted
singapore is so small. if you drive and have good school affiliation, should not be a problem
btw OA maybe only haig and borderline chung cheng. it will not qualify for taonan or chij
thanks for the sharing.
heard no pipe gas, have to order gas. good thing is: it will be much cheaper than the singpower :)
I believe there is a very big distinction between buying for own stay vs investment. I admire those who can move to any part of Singapore where there is a good buy. The biggest problem people like me face is that I am limited to whatever there is in the east.
BUT!! Buying for own stay, there are alot more considerations besides the apartment itself. Surroundings also impt.
1. Got katong area to satisfy the food craze, got short walk to east coast (I am married with kids),
2. parkway (many banks and NTUC and Cold Storage),
3. its near to ECP both entrance and exit (currently i stay at costa, so exit ECP is easy, entrance abit tricky) and
4. more affordable, because limited or no seaview (currently at costa I have realised sea view is something i will enjoy more after retirement. Now by the time i reach home its darkness outside)
5. freehold. living in 99 yr property is nice but i would like the idea of knowing i can stay there till i die. 99 yrs like living on a time bomb (but this is personal preferance, not to pour cold water on gfoo's investment)
So i guess i will just have to choose the best out of my limited choices.
I'm first timer in hunting private property, my questions:
1. how to find good agents that have many bargain/firesale?
2. how many agent to engage, as many as possible?
cheers
I feel the main drawback of OA is too many units per floor. The small units are the worst. They appear to be fillers after the large units were carved out.
The Esta definitely has more privacy (4 corner units per floor per block) and a better internal layout. Small units are designed to feel large because of the landscape balcony window. Back-to-back apartments' windows (e.g. kitchen to kitchen and dining to dining) don't face each other. A lot of people don't realise MCL Land is owned by the Jardine Group that has decades of experience in developing small apartments into comfortable homes in Hong Kong. As everyone knows, apartments in Singapore have shrunk and are still shrinking. It really takes an experienced developer to develop small units. UOL, developer of AO, is still a very local company. AO looks nice in the launch brochure. Wait till you move in and experience the crowd breathing down your neck.
Agree wif u bro :) Especially there are many including some of the bros in the forum commenting that UOL is a better developer, just because UOL has bought and developed more CCR projects compared to MCL. MCL actually owned by HK Land, ultimate parent Co. is Jardine Group where they are very experienced in high density development compared to local developer.
gfoo ..i agree with your analysis on Sail ...
as for east coast lover ... i still wont want to go there ...really too cramp for my comfort ..
if you recall my article sometime back .. Marina will be new town ..very few cars allowed in , all travel by train ...
raffles place will become old town ...
Sail will be the gateway ..between old and new ..good choice ...
i also mentioned that during all downturn / recession ...govt always hold back on outskirt projects ..BUT never on prime area ...Orchard and now Marina ...so GFOO is so right with his analysis ...
Bro, when u mention East Coast is cramp, may i know which part of CCR or RCR is not cramp besides some parts of Bukit Timah or GCB. R u implying River valley is not crowded? Novena & Newton is spacious? Even Balestier is crowded. D3 worse still, crowded with HDB. Even Caspian n in future Jurong East is very very crowded.
The worst would be D1 & 2, completely immersed in a concrete jungle. Just imagine the small piece of land The Sail is sitting on has more units than One Amber & Esta combined. No offence to Sail owners :) And the thought of many of such development that might come up in the piece of reclaimed land called the new downtown is scary.
But really, all these crowd/ crampness are nothing as compared to most HK residential :)
Hi Gfoo,
I am still curious on why you have decided to give a cheque on The Sail. Looking at the gloomy economic outlook and you having express similar view, I can only guess that you are really tired of all those property searching and decided to settle on one now.
Pls do not get me wrong. I still believe that the market will correct further and that i will lose some in the short term. But a lot of my investment decisions are sparked by triggers. Here are a few:
- gold passed 950. This is a trigger for mass inflation, and not flight to safety as the financial media calls it
- my guru has sent out a call to dump all US and foreign bonds
- m0 and m1 has passed the point of no return
- this is the right unit at a price close to 2005 prices. I am comfortable w this. Unlike others here, i have divested all other pte properties much earlier. I just disposed of my hdb at a hefty profit
- there is firm evidence of pent up demand. Palmera is 90% sold this weekend. All across the island the story is the same at showrooms
- banks are still willing to lend both in the US and sgp. Those that say otherwise is bullshitting. The only thing is valuation expectations. This i still fear
I am not and cannot call the bottom, but vs mass inflation, which is the lesser evil?
Pls do not get me wrong. I still believe that the market will correct further and that i will lose some in the short term. But a lot of my investment decisions are sparked by triggers. Here are a few:
- gold passed 950. This is a trigger for mass inflation, and not flight to safety as the financial media calls it
- my guru has sent out a call to dump all US and foreign bonds
- m0 and m1 has passed the point of no return
- this is the right unit at a price close to 2005 prices. I am comfortable w this. Unlike others here, i have divested all other pte properties much earlier. I just disposed of my hdb at a hefty profit
- there is firm evidence of pent up demand. Palmera is 90% sold this weekend. All across the island the story is the same at showrooms
- banks are still willing to lend both in the US and sgp. Those that say otherwise is bullshitting. The only thing is valuation expectations. This i still fear
I am not and cannot call the bottom, but vs mass inflation, which is the lesser evil?
bro, you are 100% right! i'm with you on the hyperinflation... i've started searching for unit within my budget... difficult to find... :banghead:
all my $$$ went to long gold and asia blue chips already.... so now buy cheaper unit to stay first... and also let some powder to dry first to collect some more blue chip at cheaper price. ;)
bro, you are 100% right! i'm with you on the hyperinflation... i've started searching for unit within my budget... difficult to find... :banghead:
all my $$$ went to long gold and asia blue chips already.... so now buy cheaper unit to stay first... and also let some powder to dry first to collect some more blue chip at cheaper price. ;)
no no! stay out of stocks!!!! hard assets and shares are mutually exclusive in an inflationary environment. unless you are getting commodity and resource blue chips
i have been shorting the market and financials since early 2008. I have started shorting the Russell 1000.
do not wish for hyperinflation. there, you and i will lose - nobody wins. mass inflation, hard asset investors will come up tops.
no no! stay out of stocks!!!! hard assets and shares are mutually exclusive in an inflationary environment. unless you are getting commodity and resource blue chips
i have been shorting the market and financials since early 2008. I have started shorting the Russell 1000.
do not wish for hyperinflation. there, you and i will lose - nobody wins. mass inflation, hard asset investors will come up tops.
bro... we really should be good friends... i'm not wishing for hyperinflation, i'm just worried. :eek:
my only favorite is playing commo related stocks... 2008 is my best year so far just by long/short commo/oil stock... if not, how to buy condo?!? :spliff:
i'm waiting market to crash, if not hard to make $$$...
bro... we really should be good friends... i'm not wishing for hyperinflation, i'm just worried. :eek:
my only favorite is playing commo related stocks... 2008 is my best year so far just by long/short commo/oil stock... if not, how to buy condo?!? :spliff:
i'm waiting market to crash, if not hard to make $$$...
guys, can educate me a bit on hyperinflaction?
guys, can educate me a bit on hyperinflaction?
PLS SEARCH HERE http://www.investopedia.com
guys, can educate me a bit on hyperinflaction?
to be fair, do not expect hyperinflation - it is too extreme ala zimbabwe/iceland style
rather, i am expecting mass inflation
- gold passed 950. This is a trigger for mass inflation, and not flight to safety as the financial media calls it.
IMO, Gold is going up now because of safe haven, loss in confidence in financial system. If a country(eg. Iceland) can go bankrupt, what will happen next? We definitely not in mass inflation now. It is deflation. Gold does goes up in deflation cycle.
I am not and cannot call the bottom, but vs mass inflation, which is the lesser evil?
Again, IMO....I agree we will get high or super high inflation but it will be in the next few years when situation improves, people start trusting our financial system again. I don't believe it is now.
i remember watching a youtube video of jim rogers telling off a CNBC anchor the difference between deflation n inflation :p
But.. just as fast as the M0 and M1 supply increased which is caused by the govt's printing press..
The govt can decrease the supply by issuing higher percentage bonds and inflation might be awhile but will not turn into hyperinflation.
But this is assuming that the debtors are all confident of the fiat money system.
read the weekend edition of the business times which recorded the transaction of Esta in Jan/Feb for a unit of size 1313 @ $693 psf? Could this be for the caveat lodged for the launch price? Or could it be a distressed sale?
proud owner
24-02-09, 10:55
Bro, when u mention East Coast is cramp, may i know which part of CCR or RCR is not cramp besides some parts of Bukit Timah or GCB. R u implying River valley is not crowded? Novena & Newton is spacious? Even Balestier is crowded. D3 worse still, crowded with HDB. Even Caspian n in future Jurong East is very very crowded.
The worst would be D1 & 2, completely immersed in a concrete jungle. Just imagine the small piece of land The Sail is sitting on has more units than One Amber & Esta combined. No offence to Sail owners :) And the thought of many of such development that might come up in the piece of reclaimed land called the new downtown is scary.
But really, all these crowd/ crampness are nothing as compared to most HK residential :)
sorry by cramp i am referring to it being densely populated ...
i always have this fear /fantasy / crazy idea .. should someone decides to wept out singapore ..they would bomb orchard road (on a saturday evening) ,,then hillview ,,,then east coast ..
that might take away 50 pct of population in one night ...
thats what i mean Cramp ..too populated ..
Property_Owner
24-02-09, 11:09
sorry by cramp i am referring to it being densely populated ...
i always have this fear /fantasy / crazy idea .. should someone decides to wept out singapore ..they would bomb orchard road (on a saturday evening) ,,then hillview ,,,then east coast ..
that might take away 50 pct of population in one night ...
thats what i mean Cramp ..too populated ..
Sorry bro, different school of thoughts this time round.
They will bomb hillview first, cause MINDEF is there. Haha:D
actually, i think they will target the raffles place area first. cripple the economy, cripple the country.
now i lagi scared
proud owner
24-02-09, 11:12
Sorry bro, different school of thoughts this time round.
They will bomb hillview first, cause MINDEF is there. Haha:D
ahah
actually i feel you, me and Gfoo have similar thoughts on many issues...
proud owner
24-02-09, 11:17
actually, i think they will target the raffles place area first. cripple the economy, cripple the country.
now i lagi scared
if their intention is to take lives ...on a saturday night ... raffles place will be quiet mah ..
but orchard..will be crowded ..30 mins after they hit orchard ..they hit hillview ( assuming 30mins to rush home heheh) and then eats coast (same time to rush home )
pls hor i only imagining ...dont list me as AL KAY DAR
so lets end this imagination topic...
ahah
actually i feel you, me and Gfoo have similar thoughts on many issues...
i currently live in d15 (at least for the next few days), and i used to stay at toh tuck, novena and even balestier - the 4 hot areas of Singapore! :)
the toh tuck/hillview area underwent a massive condo surge and the whole place density and valuation wise went down the gutter.
D15 is scarier simply because you have unscrupulous developers turning 3-4 terrace houses previously housing 12pax, to a 5 storey apartment housing 120pax. the amazing thing is that there are tons of people still buying (e.g. Palmera sold 80% since CNY)
look at google earth. look at the density. compare to hillview. you will be very very worried.
IMHO, the world's most congested street during 7.30am, 8.30am, 1.30pm and evening time will be St Patrick's Road by 2011. Guaranteed!
proud owner
24-02-09, 11:34
i currently live in d15 (at least for the next few days), and i used to stay at toh tuck, novena and even balestier - the 4 hot areas of Singapore! :)
the toh tuck/hillview area underwent a massive condo surge and the whole place density and valuation wise went down the gutter.
D15 is scarier simply because you have unscrupulous developers turning 3-4 terrace houses previously housing 12pax, to a 5 storey apartment housing 120pax. the amazing thing is that there are tons of people still buying (e.g. Palmera sold 80% since CNY)
look at google earth. look at the density. compare to hillview. you will be very very worried.
absolutely my sentiment
i must address you BRO from now ..
thats another reason why i wont buy clustered terrace ... ... built up 3600 sqft ..but 5 storey .. walau eh ..
people .. if you cannot afford landed ..stay condo ..dont buy clustered ..
they are invented for foreigners ..who wants landed but by law cannot buy ...hence the come out with strata terrace .. its for foreigners .. dont kana bluffed
Property_Owner
24-02-09, 11:36
if their intention is to take lives ...on a saturday night ... raffles place will be quiet mah ..
but orchard..will be crowded ..30 mins after they hit orchard ..they hit hillview ( assuming 30mins to rush home heheh) and then eats coast (same time to rush home )
pls hor i only imagining ...dont list me as AL KAY DAR
so lets end this imagination topic...
For this issue I will not touch on more. I was an Army Officer. I know where will be hit first as there's a saying. 'Rule the sky and you win the war'. There are some issues tat will always be kept behind closed doors. Like MSK. :spliff:
Property_Owner
24-02-09, 11:41
absolutely my sentiment
i must address you BRO from now ..
thats another reason why i wont buy clustered terrace ... ... built up 3600 sqft ..but 5 storey .. walau eh ..
people .. if you cannot afford landed ..stay condo ..dont buy clustered ..
they are invented for foreigners ..who wants landed but by law cannot buy ...hence the come out with strata terrace .. its for foreigners .. dont kana bluffed
Clustered house? Never even think of this word. Look at 'Kew' and you know the answer:cheers6:
For this issue I will not touch on more. I was an Army Officer. I know where will be hit first as there's a saying. 'Rule the sky and you win the war'. There are some issues tat will always be kept behind closed doors. Like MSK. :spliff:
LOL all these war games r on paper nia
there is no need to hit SG, just starve it into submission can liao, hence it is more a case of when SG will strike 1st instead of being hit
Property_Owner
24-02-09, 12:00
LOL all these war games r on paper nia
there is no need to hit SG, just starve it into submission can liao, hence it is more a case of when SG will strike 1st instead of being hit
Different school of thoughts.
If you get into a fight, asked yourself. Will you be punched too? Of course we expected some counter attack and so on. Also do a speed dial to BO to finish the job.
Pls, end this topic. Sensitive:tsk-tsk:
East Lover
24-02-09, 16:17
read the weekend edition of the business times which recorded the transaction of Esta in Jan/Feb for a unit of size 1313 @ $693 psf? Could this be for the caveat lodged for the launch price? Or could it be a distressed sale?
Anyone has idea? is this $693 psf launch price or firesale ???
sorry by cramp i am referring to it being densely populated ...
i always have this fear /fantasy / crazy idea .. should someone decides to wept out singapore ..they would bomb orchard road (on a saturday evening) ,,then hillview ,,,then east coast ..
that might take away 50 pct of population in one night ...
thats what i mean Cramp ..too populated ..
Yes bro i know u meant over crowding n too populated :) East Coast or maybe even D15 itself is a large area. It is a fact that areas like Telok Kurau & St Pats has undergone transformation. But for the same area by area comparison, i tend to think a plot ratio 1.4 cannot be more densely populated than plot ratio 2.8 or for the new downtown is 10 to 25.
But your fantasy idea is funny lol. Seems like Pasir ris or Sembawang might be safer :)
i currently live in d15 (at least for the next few days), and i used to stay at toh tuck, novena and even balestier - the 4 hot areas of Singapore! :)
the toh tuck/hillview area underwent a massive condo surge and the whole place density and valuation wise went down the gutter.
D15 is scarier simply because you have unscrupulous developers turning 3-4 terrace houses previously housing 12pax, to a 5 storey apartment housing 120pax. the amazing thing is that there are tons of people still buying (e.g. Palmera sold 80% since CNY)
look at google earth. look at the density. compare to hillview. you will be very very worried.
IMHO, the world's most congested street during 7.30am, 8.30am, 1.30pm and evening time will be St Patrick's Road by 2011. Guaranteed!
Correct me i am wrong, but situation is similar in orchard, river valley and Bt Timah/ Dunearn Road at peak hrs :(
But the consolation is at least these guys get a spot to park their cars, unlike the new downtown, still have to ballot for car park lot. No offence bro :)
Correct me i am wrong, but situation is similar in orchard, river valley and Bt Timah/ Dunearn Road at peak hrs :(
But the consolation is at least these guys get a spot to park their cars, unlike the new downtown, still have to ballot for car park lot. No offence bro :)
no offense taken!
yup gotta ballot, bo pian. at least save on office carpark, which is across the road. balance out, i save a little more - to me at least
MCL Land this time "si liao"!
Interesting to know how they are going to launch for their upcoming project.
MCL Land this time "si liao"!
Interesting to know how they are going to launch for their upcoming project.
maybe they got another big fund from bank?
MCL Land this time "si liao"!
Interesting to know how they are going to launch for their upcoming project.
Bro what r u talking abt? Read this piece of news:
Business Times - 24 Feb 2009
COMMENTARY
After writedowns, MCL will have freer hand
By KALPANA RASHIWALA WHEN MCL Land, a subsidiary of Hongkong Land, released its full-year 2008 results on Friday, it was the first Singapore-listed developer to book provisions for its residential land bank this market downcycle.
The developer said it wrote down the value of development properties for sale by US$180.2 million, and this pushed MCL into the red, with a US$107.3 million net loss, in contrast to a net profit of US$61.9 million a year earlier.
In doing so, the group has faced up to the market reality - property prices have begun to slide, and are expected to fall further. By writing down the values of some of its sites, the group now has flexibility to launch new projects on them at an opportune time in future, generate cash flow and begin a new cycle of profit-booking - something other developers who have so far resisted writing down values of their residential sites may not be able to look forward to.
Part of the reason for MCL Land's swift decision to make the provisions may have to do with its parentage in the Jardine group, which is known to be conservative.
In its results statement, MCL Land said that 'International Financial Reporting Standards require development properties for sale to be carried at the lower of cost or estimated net realisable value. With the advice of professional valuers, the board has reviewed the carrying value of development properties for sale in Singapore that have yet to be launched or sold and has decided to write down the carrying value by US$180.2 million'.
MCL did not state this, but given the profile of the group's land bank, the writedowns are likely to have been entirely for its Singapore residential land bank.
The company did not identify specifically which sites it wrote down or how much it wrote them down to.
A good guess may be that the sites bought in the past couple of years were targeted for the writedowns. These would include a 99-year-leasehold plot in Yishun fronting Lower Seletar Reservoir that MCL Land bought in March 2008 for $350 per square foot per plot ratio (psf ppr), the freehold Nim Park in Seletar Hills area purchased for about $440 psf ppr, Dynasty Garden Court 1 in Sixth Avenue purchased for $830 psf ppr, Nob Hill Condominium and adjoining sites in the Ewe Boon Road area costing $1,100 psf ppr and Casa Nassau in Upper East Coast Road picked up at about $580 psf ppr.
In writing down the values of these sites, in all probability MCL looked not just at sale prices that could be achieved for new projects on these plots if they were to be launched today, but also took into account potential price declines over, say, the next year or two.
Despite the writedowns, MCL Land's net gearing dipped marginally to 46 per cent as at end-2008 from 47 per cent as at end-2007. Going by normal banking practice, MCL is expected to have to top up equity for bank loans relating to some of these sites to avoid breaching loan covenants.
Cash and cash equivalents The group had US$131.8 million in cash and cash equivalents as at end-2008. It should generate significant cash flow during the current financial year from completing three projects - The Fernhill, Tierra Vue and Hillcrest Villa - notwithstanding the possibility that some buyers who bought on the deferred payment scheme (DPS) may plead for more time to pay up when DPS expires.
This additional cash flow should provide the group some buffer for topping up equity on bank loans arising from the provisions.
On the stock market yesterday, MCL ended seven cents higher at 73 cents.
By announcing the provisions and chalking up a loss for the year ended 2008, MCL probably won't dent sentiment towards the counter. After all, we are in a recession and most people expect companies in general to post lower earnings or even losses. What the writedowns have done for MCL is to clear the deck so the group may look forward to a new round of action.
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