View Full Version : The Está (D15, Freehold, MCL Land)
Able to add one sliding door between the kitchen and service balcony? otherwise all the cooking smoke will surely dirty the laundry there.
Finally, Esta 1001st post.
Think should be able bah, next visit go and do a confirmation. May ask a ID there to make some recommendations.
first, don't know how to delete the posted one...
second, if economic so bad, bank tighten everything even the cridit card annual fee, shall we need to review the situation twice before commit any purchasing?
You are missing the point. If you can't afford S$50 CC fee, then pls forget about buying a big ticket item like a condo.
Of course, banks are trying to boost fee income as they are bleeding from the lending business. Can't really blame them.
Hi dwhx74,
Wow so good can see see view every day..envy :scared-2: Since you have already collected your unit may I ask you how do you feel about the workmanship of this project? DO you require any touch up or works to be rectified?
Thank you, colin888. The workmanship of the unit on the whole is fine. Bathrooms and floorings are well done with no major defects. We do have some light scratches on the wardrobe doors which I would like to rectify. I'm still completing the defects list as we've engaged a quality surveyor to conduct the defect checks for us. There's likely to be more rectification after we get the report. The developer put in the Blum system on the kitchen cabinet drawers and hence the drawers do not slam. :) Quality of the additional extra tall cabinets at the entrance foyer could have been better. We didn't quite like the color and likely to remove this in place of built in cabinets for the dry kitchen and counter bar. I wish they didn't provide the option of the refrigerator as we'd prefer the side by side fridge.
We didn't like the metal gates on level one lobby and the basement carpark lobby which is quite small... it would have be better with glass panel doors. The BBQ pits could have been more spread out rather than being placed in one location.
On comparison with The Seaview, a relative of mine had a unit over there. The lobby designs are definitely more sophisticated. It's very spacious and we liked both the level 1 and basement carpark lobby designs and layout. The development is much bigger and hence the possibility of automatic glass sliders. Some facilities like the BBQ pits are also more spaced out. Nonetheless, my relative's unit did not enjoy as much of seaview as our Esta unit even though hers is seafacing unit but on midlevel and closer to the sea. She could only enjoy the seaview from the balcony and pockets of it from one other room only. Hence, her family were so impressed by extent of seaview we get from our unit. They were also surprised with the good size bedrooms esp the master bedroom, which they claimed is bigger. Guess the grass is always greener on the other side, as we too wished to have their type of basement car park and lobby areas!
Wow, can let me have your ID's contact? Please share your ID plan if you don't mind? Mine is also 1313 walk-in balcony, want to get some ideas on how to reno. :beats-me-man: Have arranged for key collection on Sat only, too busy.
Hi Donatello, I'm still in the process of gathering the various quotation from the IDs. Some IDs are able to provide 1-2 pics of 3D plan these days to impress on prospective customers. (prob due to recession) Sure, I'll share with u the ID plan once I finalise with the ID.
Hi Donatello, I'm still in the process of gathering the various quotation from the IDs. Some IDs are able to provide 1-2 pics of 3D plan these days to impress on prospective customers. (prob due to recession) Sure, I'll share with u the ID plan once I finalise with the ID.
Thanks dwhx74. :) Where you found the independant surveyor? :scared-5: Didn't know got professionals to check on defects available.
Phua Chu Kang
26-11-08, 10:02
Saw in the Seaview forum where owners petition changes / improvements to the development.
Would we be able to group together to petition for similar actions, i.e. changing metal gates to glass panels and etc?
East Lover
26-11-08, 10:24
Finally, Esta 1001st post.
Think should be able bah, next visit go and do a confirmation. May ask a ID there to make some recommendations.
haha, didn't notice that i'm the one reach 1000th post!:cheers6:
East Lover
26-11-08, 10:26
You are missing the point. If you can't afford S$50 CC fee, then pls forget about buying a big ticket item like a condo.
Of course, banks are trying to boost fee income as they are bleeding from the lending business. Can't really blame them.
i don't want to waste $$$ on the membership fee because it's waivable, so i spend wise $$$ on right property. you got it?
wallstreat
27-11-08, 10:55
More photos for a low-floor pool-facing unit:
http://the-esta.blogspot.com/
East Lover
27-11-08, 10:57
More photos for a low-floor pool-facing unit:
http://the-esta.blogspot.com/
Great photos! thanks!
More photos for a low-floor pool-facing unit:
http://the-esta.blogspot.com/
I agree. Great photos.
Thanks for the nice photo...Saw that in URA NOV sales transaction, a unit is going for 780psf. Any idea what stack is that?
Thanks for the nice photo...Saw that in URA NOV sales transaction, a unit is going for 780psf. Any idea what stack is that?
Low floor, stack 9
More photos for a low-floor pool-facing unit:
http://the-esta.blogspot.com/
Very nice pictures indeed. ANy pictures on the upgraded kitchen with the glass divider?
East Lover
28-11-08, 08:06
Low floor, stack 9
stack 9 quite ok wah, quite, a lot of privacy. is this unit directly bought from developer or resale case? $780psf seems from resale...
Maybe stack 9 is opposite the rubbish dump area?
is this unit directly bought from developer or resale case? $780psf seems from resale...
Curious, any difference? I thought as long as the price is right...u dont care who you buy it from..and also, at near TOP time, still can buy from developer?
Curious, any difference? I thought as long as the price is right...u dont care who you buy it from..and also, at near TOP time, still can buy from developer?
What he meant is the caveat was lodged recently for a purchase/transaction done months/years ago.
stack 9 quite ok wah, quite, a lot of privacy. is this unit directly bought from developer or resale case? $780psf seems from resale...
If I'm not wrong is a 4th floor unit. The advertised price was $815 then. I was interested then but it's very close to the rubblish collection area, so drop the idea.
$780 is a subsale unit.
WolleyDragon
29-11-08, 10:42
Just saw in Propertyguru.com.sg that there's a unit at Esta going for $687.96 psf..
Realistic prices are back again!! :spliff:
Just saw in Propertyguru.com.sg that there's a unit at Esta going for $687.96 psf..
Realistic prices are back again!! :spliff:
from Pptyguru, the photos taken are from 14th floor but doesn't mean the actual unit is for 14th floor. Maybe its low floor? if it is high floor, then at 687.96 is a good buy!
Just saw in Propertyguru.com.sg that there's a unit at Esta going for $687.96 psf..
Realistic prices are back again!! :spliff:
You know if it's really $687 don't need to advertise also sell. Current support price is around $850-$900 for most unit. The fact is there is no need to down the price so low to sell it off. Has anyone called this lady? I doubt it's true cos even the pictures were taken off someone else webpage. :tsk-tsk:
wallstreat
29-11-08, 11:20
Just saw in Propertyguru.com.sg that there's a unit at Esta going for $687.96 psf..
Realistic prices are back again!! :spliff:
wow can show me the link? my cheq book is ready, $687.96 psf is a steal at any floor any orientation in Esta
WolleyDragon
29-11-08, 11:36
wow can show me the link? my cheq book is ready, $687.96 psf is a steal at any floor any orientation in Esta
check out this link..
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/260992/for-sale-the-esta
good for you bro.. :)
Hopefully we should see this 600 plus price range holding for the next year (back to yr 2006 prices when 600 plus psf was the norm..)
from Pptyguru, the photos taken are from 14th floor but doesn't mean the actual unit is for 14th floor. Maybe its low floor? if it is high floor, then at 687.96 is a good buy!
Well said snow.some agents take pictures of the high floor & advertise $6xxpsf,when you call them up & arrange for viewing,they will tell you the price is for the low floor blah blah blah.:tsk-tsk: :rolleyes: If it's really that price for high floor,it's really a steal & will definetly break the lowest record price for Esta of 2008.:)
Hi guys, dont bother to call, I called, this guy called roy said his girl put up the wrong price, should be $830 psf not $830k for a 1300+ sf unit.
wallstreat
29-11-08, 19:43
Well said snow.some agents take pictures of the high floor & advertise $6xxpsf,when you call them up & arrange for viewing,they will tell you the price is for the low floor blah blah blah.:tsk-tsk: :rolleyes: If it's really that price for high floor,it's really a steal & will definetly break the lowest record price for Esta of 2008.:)
Even for low floor $6xxpsf is still a very good deal (if available). The good build quality of Esta surprises me, so I am keen to get another unit to collect rental.
Even for low floor $6xxpsf is still a very good deal (if available). The good build quality of Esta surprises me, so I am keen to get another unit to collect rental.
$6xxpsf more like a launching price years back.If have,Grab it man!:)
Agree.The built,quality & finishing is good.I like the gym where you can see the pool;) :D
You know if it's really $687 don't need to advertise also sell. Current support price is around $850-$900 for most unit. The fact is there is no need to down the price so low to sell it off. Has anyone called this lady? I doubt it's true cos even the pictures were taken off someone else webpage. :tsk-tsk:
Well said. Give this man a beer:cheers1:
$6xxpsf more like a launching price years back.If have,Grab it man!:)
Agree.The built,quality & finishing is good.I like the gym where you can see the pool;) :D
Bro, even fire sale u think will go so low mah? Will Belvedere go back to launch price? Also if selling at launch price, don't even have to get a agent to market for you.
Hi guys, dont bother to call, I called, this guy called roy said his girl put up the wrong price, should be $830 psf not $830k for a 1300+ sf unit.
Oh my goodness! How can she put up the wrong price? Maybe it's marketing tricks? ai yo.......:doh:
i went to view a unit at Esta at stack 20 mid floor this afternoon. Thumbs up for the quality, facing and layout of Esta units! Environment is windy and spacious! :) Will post photos shortly, yah!!!
$6xxpsf more like a launching price years back.If have,Grab it man!:)
Agree.The built,quality & finishing is good.I like the gym where you can see the pool;) :D
Collected keys already. Quality of the materials were satisfactory. Couldn't enter the gym when I tried with my access card though. :beats-me-man:
Bro, even fire sale u think will go so low mah? Will Belvedere go back to launch price? Also if selling at launch price, don't even have to get a agent to market for you.
Bro,
Imho,although it's recession now,i don't the property prices will drop to launching price.I always have confident in spore.lol like i said,if there's a unit going @ $6xxpsf,hokkien says mai tu liao.haha:)
Collected keys already. Quality of the materials were satisfactory. Couldn't enter the gym when I tried with my access card though. :beats-me-man:
Congrats Don:)
Guess you must be very exicited when you collect your keys.How come the Quality of materials were only satisfactory?Is there alot of defects?
Congrats Don:)
Guess you must be very exicited when you collect your keys.How come the Quality of materials were only satisfactory?Is there alot of defects?
Yup, finally get to see the real thing. Satisfactory at a glance, haven't really looked in detail of everything. Am thinking now if I should get the professional defect inspection specialist to take a look at the whole house.
Yup, finally get to see the real thing. Satisfactory at a glance, haven't really looked in detail of everything. Am thinking now if I should get the professional defect inspection specialist to take a look at the whole house.
With the kind of rent I'm paying at the moment, I wouldn't care about small defects like minor scratches here and there. The faster I move in, the better it is. My rental savings will be equivalent to buying a new set of cooker, microwave, washing machine, etc every month!
Yup, finally get to see the real thing. Satisfactory at a glance, haven't really looked in detail of everything. Am thinking now if I should get the professional defect inspection specialist to take a look at the whole house.
For me,i go through the defects myself by sticking masking tapes @ those defects area.. after that ask the developer to come up & check,those that needs to change & patch up,they did a good job & do it for me nicely.:)
For me,i go through the defects myself by sticking masking tapes @ those defects area.. after that ask the developer to come up & check,those that needs to change & patch up,they did a good job & do it for me nicely.:)
How long does it take them to response? I'll be collecting keys next week hope there will be no big problems, as I wish to start reno ASAP.
wow can show me the link? my cheq book is ready, $687.96 psf is a steal at any floor any orientation in Esta
The cheapest 3 room unit now is 830psf for a 1346sqft layout,
2 room is 900K for 1001 sqft layout.
How long does it take them to response? I'll be collecting keys next week hope there will be no big problems, as I wish to start reno ASAP.
For my house,keppel land takes about a week later to rectify those defects & get it change for me the 3days later for my kitchen door.:)
Collected my keys today. As whole, the condo is good quality (tiling, doors, etc). But I'm disappointed with the very large bay windows that take up a lot of space. I think the bay windows are larger than normal. What am I going to do with so much bay window space!!!
learninginprogress
01-12-08, 15:31
Collected keys today oso, balcony is too big. Overall quality is ok. Some cracks and scratches on wall and tiles though. The living room tiles too white for my liking. One grub is about the basement and the lobbies. The whole basement is monotone color, no distinction of zones by color. The lobbies in my opinion is cannot make it compared to seaview and Cote D'Azur. Ground floor lobby only have metal gates, no air con. Basement lobby even worse! The door is like a fire escape door, like wth cant they use a proper glass door? The foyers of each block is also very small and discreet. Will be very hard for visitors to even find the access to ur block.
East Lover
01-12-08, 15:39
Finally visited Esta. truelly nice project, congratulations for all Esta owners!
Just one thing - the lift in Esta seems a bit slow. it could be a
challenger in the morning, when you rush for work or school...:doh:
Phua Chu Kang
01-12-08, 22:37
Agree with all the observations. Feel that we should all make the effort to feedback to the Developer and hopefully they can make some improvements to the basement as well as the lobby area.:mad:
yup, i agree too. I went to view a 3bdrm unit at stack12, was surprise to hv a nice partial seaview from the living room, even all the 3bdrms having the partial seaview too, although little bit of noon sun (which i like as i don like house with dim interior). The lobby area is not as grand as Seaview...etc, but well, with 900psf FH in that area, I'm seriously considering..:ashamed1:. I really like the big lap pool, jacuzzi and the gym area, really nicely done and windy..
yup, i agree too. I went to view a 3bdrm unit at stack12, was surprise to hv a nice partial seaview from the living room, even all the 3bdrms having the partial seaview too, although little bit of noon sun (which i like as i don like house with dim interior). The lobby area is not as grand as Seaview...etc, but well, with 900psf FH in that area, I'm seriously considering..:ashamed1:. I really like the big lap pool, jacuzzi and the gym area, really nicely done and windy..
I'm glad it has a serious lap pool. Not some silly pool for show, but not for exercise. As a whole the condo is simple, but beautiful though the basement car park does need some improvement.
I think Esta is nice
seriously when i pass by
East coast and look at Esta , One amber , Seaview and The future
SilverSea coming up soon~~
I am really proud to see the transform of East Coast is so much different
from the past of those old condos looks
Dun forget the new look of Parkway Parade will be coming our way~~
yup, i agree too. I went to view a 3bdrm unit at stack12, was surprise to hv a nice partial seaview from the living room, even all the 3bdrms having the partial seaview too, although little bit of noon sun (which i like as i don like house with dim interior). The lobby area is not as grand as Seaview...etc, but well, with 900psf FH in that area, I'm seriously considering..:ashamed1:. I really like the big lap pool, jacuzzi and the gym area, really nicely done and windy..
Saw from another stack with walk in balcony by chance, FULL sea view at the door step and from the looks of it, it is permarnant because it is looking over the new building for Chinese Swimming CLub. Open door already the sea welcomes you.
Collected my keys this week, and was told that I had to submit an approval form for renovation 3 weeks in advance to the management office. I know it's a policy to inform the management, however 3 weeks to way too long. Since some had already shifted in may I know if this is a cast in stone ruling, or are they flexible?
East Lover
16-12-08, 14:25
Only 4 transactions in NOV? and one of them hit $780 psf!
Price Floor Area (Sqft) $psf Date
1116050 1313 850 Nov-08
1400000 1593 879 Nov-08
1175160 1399 840 Nov-08
1099800 1410 780 Nov-08
1292508 1561 828 Oct-08
1039600 1130 920 Oct-08
1314225 1593 825 Oct-08
1381800 1410 980 Oct-08
1175135 1313 895 Oct-08
1090260 1346 810 Oct-08
1201395 1313 915 Oct-08
969000 1001 968 Oct-08
1085000 1173 925 Oct-08
1100000 1173 938 Oct-08
1116050 1313 850 Oct-08
$700 psf or lower, pls post here and let us know, many will be interested. I'm still holding back on buying, still making comparison amongs SV, One Amber and ESTA.
Wow... below $800 psf, looks like either there are serious hunters or some 'serious' selling going on... $700 psf is still possible... hold on hold back for now and see how...
nah, some agents and some owners will tell you that 780 one is an outlier, that it faces the rubbish dump, that prices are holding up and will continue holding up, that owners are mostly hdb upgraders who have holding power, that no one will want to realize the loss even if his unit goes into negative equity, that coordinated actions from world governments are going to save the markets, and that this time it's different - this recession is different in that the property market in Singapore will not be affected much.
hayata1972
17-12-08, 07:38
nah, some agents and some owners will tell you that 780 one is an outlier, that it faces the rubbish dump, that prices are holding up and will continue holding up, that owners are mostly hdb upgraders who have holding power, that no one will want to realize the loss even if his unit goes into negative equity, that coordinated actions from world governments are going to save the markets, and that this time it's different - this recession is different in that the property market in Singapore will not be affected much.
Hahaha.:doh:
nah, some agents and some owners will tell you that 780 one is an outlier, that it faces the rubbish dump, that prices are holding up and will continue holding up, that owners are mostly hdb upgraders who have holding power, that no one will want to realize the loss even if his unit goes into negative equity, that coordinated actions from world governments are going to save the markets, and that this time it's different - this recession is different in that the property market in Singapore will not be affected much.
:scared-1: ........
heard from an agent that sea view 0x-01 is asking 880psf, but even after 20 viewings, not even an offer came in.
heard from an agent that sea view 0x-01 is asking 880psf, but even after 20 viewings, not even an offer came in.
:scared-1: :scared-1: :scared-1: .........
swiftpuker
17-12-08, 22:29
Difficult and miss the boat to sell and unload the apts bought just after SARs.
Wait 4 next rally. More units to be unleashed and TOP 2009/2010/2011.
(Staring at reservior water long enough will numb the brain)
East Lover
18-12-08, 11:23
nah, some agents and some owners will tell you that 780 one is an outlier, that it faces the rubbish dump, that prices are holding up and will continue holding up, that owners are mostly hdb upgraders who have holding power, that no one will want to realize the loss even if his unit goes into negative equity, that coordinated actions from world governments are going to save the markets, and that this time it's different - this recession is different in that the property market in Singapore will not be affected much.
let's wait for 6 more mths. nowadays, everyone say 2009 is a tougher year ahead, can the rental sufficient to cover the monthly installment?
Why The Esta price can still hold up above 900 psf while the prime district already drop so much?
A few reasons, firstly the first owners got the price at really a good deal 600-700 psf so I guess that they would rather hold to rent/stay rather to sell at direct cheap prices. Also if most units are for homestay, the holding power would be much stronger as compared to investors who are looking to dispose off their units.
Definitely the prime districts will be a much better buy since the drop is much more drastic and could even be more in 2009 when more units TOP and economic crisis deepens
East Lover
18-12-08, 12:39
(2008-12-17)
遭金融海啸吹袭入“冷宫”，我国高档私宅的“身价”可能在2008至2010年之间共暴跌43.8％，而大众化私宅也无法幸免，可能锐减32.1％。
野村证券（Nomura）最新的新加坡房地产研究报告中作出了上述大胆预测。这是目前对本地楼市前景，看法最为悲观的一份报告。
在这之前，瑞士信贷（Credit Suisse）在今年5月发表的报告曾预测，私宅租金和楼价可能下跌高达40％。野村则在3月25日发表的《暴风眼》中预测，豪宅价格将在未来三年内滑落32％，大众化私宅价格也可能在2010年下滑高达20％。
考虑到新加坡的宏观经济前景迅速趋软，明年的全年经济增长几乎是零，甚至萎缩，撰写报告的分析师达尔威（Tony Darwell）和蔡明兆指出，私宅租金已开始急速下跌，进而将拖累楼价跟着跳水。
他们表示，高档私宅的租金已从今年第一季的高峰退低了14.1％，而大众化私宅租金相比第二季达颠峰期已下滑了11.1％，进而拖累全岛私宅租金在今年可能退低8.5％。
由于私宅需求处于疲弱状态，而空置率有上升的趋势，他们预测明年的情况更糟，业主能收取的租金将进一步锐减16.3％，使租金在2008年至2010年之间将总共下降29％。大众化私宅的月租可能跌至每平方英尺2.46元。
此外，分析师也提出，去年高调成交的一些集体出售项目遭发展商延后发展出租，使市场一时间被大量供应充斥，打压了实际租金。
报告中提到，去年8月创下本地99年地契私宅售价新高的景福苑（The Grangeford），近几个星期被推出市场短期出租。这个由华联企业（OUE）以6亿2500万元买下的项目，两房和三房式单位的月租为每平方英尺3.13至3.41元，或每月4000至5000元。这要比第9、10和11邮区黄金地段私宅单位所收取的每平方英尺4.60至5元的月租，显著来得低。
至于楼价走势，分析师指出，买卖双方的出价和要价差距正在扩大，但由于成交量过于微薄，阻碍了分析。
参考了转手交易数据，分析师表示，本地楼价自年初已平均退低了13.4％，身价被打折超过15％的项目也有增加的趋势，下跌幅度更高达超过30％。
他们举例，圣淘沙的升涛舫(Oceanfront@Sentosa Cove)在9月份卖出的三个单位，平均售价为每平方英尺1578元，较1月份的每平方英尺2450元低35.6％。大众化私宅方面，去年卖得满堂红的红山公寓The Metropolitan，9月份的每平方英尺930元成交价也比1月份的1150元少了19.1％。
分析师表示，在经济进一步萎缩的拖累下，大众化私宅将逃不过折价的命运，在未来6至12个月将直线下滑。高档私宅的尺价则预计在2010年回跌至每平方英尺1847元，接近1996年高峰的水平。 警惕投资者也许短期内不是进场的时机，分析师提出，发展商在未来几个月里为了清仓而削价的可能性相当可观，而炒卖者抛售资产也将给楼价带来下跌压力。
sia lar all chinese... cant read.
But i can figure out everything that has figures in the article means a drop in prices/percentage point.... lol
East Lover
18-12-08, 12:43
sia lar all chinese... cant read.
But i can figure out everything that has figures in the article means a drop in prices/percentage point.... lol
haha. clever!
East Lover
23-12-08, 09:12
(copied from other forum)
CLSA: Median quarterly price v/s current bank valuations (indicative). S$ psf
1Q06 2Q06 3Q06 4Q06 1Q07 2Q07 3Q07 4Q07 1Q08 2Q08 3Q08 Bank Valn
City Square Resi 689 705 665 663 718 789 975 1,012 965 1,017 960 827
Citylights 678 661 673 678 687 885 1,077 1,156 1,128 1,104 1,200 1,100
Ferraria Park 677 660 556 555 600 655 710 717 694 704 591
Kovan Melody 534 555 548 569 582 600 729 754 759 749 742 685
One Amber 756 747 787 757 812 982 1,155 1,220 1,150 1,066 939 879
Park Infinia 930 904 963 949 1,165 1,393 1,498 1,500 1,419 1,419 1,441 1,277
Reflections 1,853 1,849 1,867 2,047 2,769 2,111 1,894
Rivergate 1,201 1,196 1,342 1,525 1,613 1,614 1,807 2,075 1,650 1,650 1,404 1,447
The Cosmopolitan 1,120 1,270 1,212 1,276 1,477 1,695 1,950 1,904 1,925 1,675 1,575 1,430
The Esta 715 701 690 671 792 902 995 1,050 1,100 953 910 843
The Metropolitan 778 816 774 1,000 1,060 998 980 925 836
The Quartz 495 495 491 522 549 652 662 729 737 721 705
The Sail 1,194 1,169 1,289 1,400 1,650 1,790 2,052 1,990 2,100 1,811 1,711 1,496
The Sea View 755 761 775 735 837 1,060 1,318 1,390 1,260 1,255 1,339 998
Source: URA
Esta latest transaction Stack 16 below #10, 1475 sqft at 808psf.
Esta latest transaction Stack 16 below #10, 1475 sqft at 808psf.
Do u have any 1313sqft units to view?
Do u have any 1313sqft units to view?
Yup, high floor. Stack 19. Can show you 1346sqft at the same time too. high floor too. Give me a text or call.
81712412
Yup, high floor. Stack 19. Can show you 1346sqft at the same time too. high floor too. Give me a text or call.
81712412
Wat's the price the owner is asking for. both ar stack 19? Got any stack facing the tennis courts?
Esta
1. Kitchen tiny, lack of Kitchen
SeaView
Luxurious, spacious, bright
natural light
Esta
2. Lobby - no charm
SeaView
Lobby - hotel like luxury and aircon
Esta
3. Balcony - narrow
Seaview
Balcony - spacious adds depth to living
and dining area
Esta
4. Rooms - ok good
SeaView
Rooms - slightly smaller than Esta
Esta
5. Bathrooms - normal
Seaview
Bathrooms - luxurious
Esta
6. Yard - too tiny
Seaview
Yard - practical with separate door
Esta
7. 8xx psf
SeaView
12xx psf
East Lover
24-12-08, 17:45
Esta
7. 8xx psf
SeaView
12xx psf
That's cool! :)
condoinvestor
24-12-08, 18:46
Esta
1. Kitchen tiny, lack of Kitchen
SeaView
Luxurious, spacious, bright
natural light
Esta
2. Lobby - no charm
SeaView
Lobby - hotel like luxury and aircon
Esta
3. Balcony - narrow
Seaview
Balcony - spacious adds depth to living
and dining area
Esta
4. Rooms - ok good
SeaView
Rooms - slightly smaller than Esta
Esta
5. Bathrooms - normal
Seaview
Bathrooms - luxurious
Esta
6. Yard - too tiny
Seaview
Yard - practical with separate door
i.e. Esta is CRAP
Glad that me and my hubbi bought a unit at Esta. Feng shui was excellent, my unit can see partial sea view....happy happy........and congrats to all owners who bought Esta!!! :)
Wat's the price the owner is asking for. both ar stack 19? Got any stack facing the tennis courts?
1 is stack 18 and the other is 19. Facing tennis court is stack 3 but no motivated sellers at this moment. Give me a call if you can.
southpark2000
27-12-08, 12:27
Esta latest transaction Stack 16 below #10, 1475 sqft at 808psf.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YlvEjlIelzk/SUpdkXEv7hI/AAAAAAAAU3E/7VJlFIVDFCU/s1600-h/1.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YlvEjlIelzk/SUpdkXEv7hI/AAAAAAAAU3E/7VJlFIVDFCU/s1600-h/1.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YlvEjlIelzk/SUpdkXEv7hI/AAAAAAAAU3E/7VJlFIVDFCU/s1600-h/1.jpg
Sorry to say this but the project is really a let down.
These are the facts which are there for all to see :
Flooring in living dining is not laid well with the joints so clearly visible.
The same with balcony area.
Carpark lobby area - most new HDB lobby are much better in terms of
look and quality. The metal grilles used in Esta give it a cheapy look and
one dont feel like coming home to a condo....
Kitchen yard area - no distinction between the two. Rubbish chute next to
washing machine !! No proper ventilation in yard to air clothes.
Balcony - too narrow and open to "full force" of rain ie rain water will shower down into the balcony as there is no immediate roof cover since
the next balcony is 2 floors up.
Wall tiles used in bathrooms give it a gross look.
(anyone can recall if show flat was like this !!?? )
Sorry to say this but the project is really a let down.
These are the facts which are there for all to see :
Flooring in living dining is not laid well with the joints so clearly visible.
The same with balcony area.
Carpark lobby area - most new HDB lobby are much better in terms of
look and quality. The metal grilles used in Esta give it a cheapy look and
one dont feel like coming home to a condo....
Kitchen yard area - no distinction between the two. Rubbish chute next to
washing machine !! No proper ventilation in yard to air clothes.
Balcony - too narrow and open to "full force" of rain ie rain water will shower down into the balcony as there is no immediate roof cover since
the next balcony is 2 floors up.
Wall tiles used in bathrooms give it a gross look.
(anyone can recall if show flat was like this !!?? )
I find the kitchen cabinets a bit cheapo looking, but my kitchen super windy if I open the window at the HS & keep the kitchen door opened. I guess that's why they provided the clothes dryer as an option who find it insufficient in terms of ventilation. Flooring for me was fine, what do you mean by joints were visible? The tiles were all smoothen out for my unit. I could only find a handful of tiles which I'm gonna get them to smoothen out. My balcony is wide & not affected by the rain :D even at full force cos layout is different. Got to also agree on the carpark/grilles/bathroom tiles though.
Glad that me and my hubbi bought a unit at Esta. Feng shui was excellent, my unit can see partial sea view....happy happy........and congrats to all owners who bought Esta!!! :)
I can see the full sea from my masterbedroom side window. Gonna enjoy it while it lasts haha. Silversea might block it in time to come though. :banghead:
Rather taken aback by the comments (from the owners of Esta). I was under the impression that MCL Land is generally a reasonably decent developer with perhaps above average workmanship and quality.
Any other inputs from other owners of Esta?
Rather taken aback by the comments (from the owners of Esta). I was under the impression that MCL Land is generally a reasonably decent developer with perhaps above average workmanship and quality.
Any other inputs from other owners of Esta?
Suggest you come over any weekend to take a look and realise that in
today's era, developers are taking buyers for a "dreamy ride" - the brochures are all an illusion.
Getting entry into the condo is no problem as there are many agents
stationed marketing the numerous units for sales and rental.
Geylang OKT
28-12-08, 21:06
Why do I feel like there is a Ninja Turtle nearby? :D
Anyway, be prepared for more downside. The former plot of land known as Rose Gardens on your right should yield several hundred more units when it is developed.
1 is stack 18 and the other is 19. Facing tennis court is stack 3 but no motivated sellers at this moment. Give me a call if you can.
Hi Joe, sorry for the delayed response. Would you pm me the unit number and their asking price cos I've seen a couple of units in the Esta.
Would not want to proceed if i have seen them before.
Many thanks!
With only 4 units at every level in each block, The Esta's privacy is excellent. I can't see any of my neighbours in any part of my apartment, including the kitchen and yard areas.
I have a 2-bedroom unit. In most condos, the small units are always some leftover space after carving the large units (e.g. One Amber, etc). And the small units' owners always pay the highest $ psf. In other words, small units' owners always get a bad deal in most condos. The Esta is not the case.
The interior workmanship of The Esta is excellent, though I do admit the common areas such as landscaping, foyers, condo entrance, etc are not as nice as those of The Seaview.
To be fair, one should not compared The Esta to The Seaview given the price differential of $800-900 vs $1100-1200 psf. Just like one wouldn't compare the new condos in Districts 11 & 10 to The Seaview.
I find the kitchen cabinets a bit cheapo looking, but my kitchen super windy if I open the window at the HS & keep the kitchen door opened. I guess that's why they provided the clothes dryer as an option who find it insufficient in terms of ventilation. Flooring for me was fine, what do you mean by joints were visible? The tiles were all smoothen out for my unit. I could only find a handful of tiles which I'm gonna get them to smoothen out. My balcony is wide & not affected by the rain :D even at full force cos layout is different. Got to also agree on the carpark/grilles/bathroom tiles though.
I agree with the above. The yard is airy when the window is open.
I still say the interior workmanship is excellent. The tiles in my apartment are smoothly laid. Even my ID commented the apartment quality is very good, but she said the club house is rather basic.
WolleyDragon
29-12-08, 15:59
With only 4 units at every level in each block, The Esta's privacy is excellent. I can't see any of my neighbours in any part of my apartment, including the kitchen and yard areas.
I have a 2-bedroom unit. In most condos, the small units are always some leftover space after carving the large units (e.g. One Amber, etc). And the small units' owners always pay the highest $ psf. In other words, small units' owners always get a bad deal in most condos. The Esta is not the case.
The interior workmanship of The Esta is excellent, though I do admit the common areas such as landscaping, foyers, condo entrance, etc are not as nice as those of The Seaview.
To be fair, one should not compared The Esta to The Seaview given the price differential of $800-900 vs $1100-1200 psf. Just like one wouldn't compare the new condos in Districts 11 & 10 to The Seaview.
what price differential are you talking about? when initially launched by the developers, the psf of seaview and esta are more or less similar. :doh:
East Lover
29-12-08, 16:07
what price differential are you talking about? when initially launched by the developers, the psf of seaview and esta are more or less similar.
well, the Esta was around $650psf while the seaview was around $750psf. also Esta provide almost everything, while seaview even no built-in-wardorb in one bedroom, because they need to cut cost go to landscape and that clubhouse... :tongue3:
East Lover
29-12-08, 16:13
Esta
1. Kitchen tiny, lack of Kitchen
SeaView
Luxurious, spacious, bright
natural light
Esta
2. Lobby - no charm
SeaView
Lobby - hotel like luxury and aircon
Esta
3. Balcony - narrow
Seaview
Balcony - spacious adds depth to living
and dining area
Esta
4. Rooms - ok good
SeaView
Rooms - slightly smaller than Esta
Esta
5. Bathrooms - normal
Seaview
Bathrooms - luxurious
Esta
6. Yard - too tiny
Seaview
Yard - practical with separate door
Seaview - 看着大气，大而无当。
Esta - 小家子气，住着实惠。
All depends on what do you want!
Read this one: "if buyers are willing to fork out $1.2 million to $1.3million for a condominium, they should consider buying landed property instead."
East Lover
29-12-08, 16:14
Private properties looking attractive
By Shila Naidu
THE recession has resulted in a 25-per-cent fall in private- property prices from their market peak, and with prices expected to dip further next year, there may be opportunities to pick up some bargains.
However, buyers of properties - whether for investment or occupancy - should do their homework before committing to such big-ticket items.
Here are 10 tips to keep firmly in mind.
1 CONSIDER LANDED
The executive director of HSR Property Group, Mr Eric Cheng, feels that if buyers are willing to fork out $1.2 million to $1.3million for a condominium, they should consider buying landed property instead.
Due to land scarcity in Singapore, there is always more demand than supply for landed property, which is not the case with condos, said Mr Cheng.
2 INSTALMENT RESERVE
Mr Cheng said it is important to invest within your means. Have a reserve of at least one year's worth of instalments in case of shocks, like a loss of income.
3 LEASING OR LIVING?
Mr Arvin Sylvester Lim, division director of Century 21 SHL Realty, said it is important to be sure if you plan to live in the property or rent it out.
If you are making it your home, the equation is simple: Find something that you like and can afford.
If you are looking to invest and rent out, do your research to see if there is good demand in an area, and if the rent will be enough to cover the instalment payment and still allow a profit.
4 DON'T WAIT TOO LONG
While one should hold back until one finds something ideal, Mr Lim does not encourage overspeculating on trends.
"Buying a house is not like buying a car. The moment you drive the car...the value drops, but with property the value can go up or down," he said.
Even though prices are expected to fall further, "a home is a must", Mr Lim said. He advises against pegging buying one to unpredictable market movements.
5 MAKE OFFERS FAST
Buyers who bought too many properties or can't afford to keep up with payments, given the weak economy, will be selling off their investments now, said Mr Shannan Govindarajoo, marketing manager at ERA.
He suggests you start looking and making reasonable offers as he thinks more buyers will be entering the market, which could mean prices for these "must-sell" properties may rise.
6 CHECK MASTER PLAN
Look at the Urban Redevelopment Authority's master plan and invest where the Government is pumping in money, said Mr Govindarajoo.
For instance, he thinks those interested in the Marina area should strike now, as prices are down by 40 per cent, compared to last year's.
Mr Lim said investing in property in that area will reap great returns when the integrated resort is ready as "a lot of the management staff will be living there, so rentals will be high".
7 SHOP FOR A LOAN
Banks are now becoming more cautious with making home loans and how much they are willing to lend, said Mr Govindarajoo.
He advised shopping around for a good home loan first, so that you do not commit yourself to a seller before knowing how much you have to work with.
8 PRICE VS VALUATION
Check the valuations of the property you are considering at different banks to make sure you?re getting a good deal, said Mr Govindarajoo.
9 OLDER CONDOS
Mr Parthiban Sadagopal, a Prop- Nex realtor, suggests buying a condo "between seven and 10 years old in the outskirts", like Pasir Ris or Tampines.
Judging from the trend seen after the 2003 recession, such condos are good buys for living in and investment, as you could hope to buy one at $400,000 to $500,000 now and sell it for up to $800,000 when the economy picks up.
Renting it out could fetch $3,000 a month as well.
10 DISTRICT 15
Keep your sights on the East Coast area of District 15, said Mr Cheng, as prices there are unlikely to dip drastically.
Good schools, malls and eateries add value, making it a good option for those who feel prime locations are too expensive. Meyer Road, Ceylon Road, Telok Kurau and Crane Road are some of the best places to buy a house, according to him.
Mr Govindarajoo agrees, saying District 15 is "evergreen".
Geylang OKT
29-12-08, 21:19
Property has another 15% to 20% more to fall at best. ;)
Private home sales in Singapore have taken a sharp fall in the fourth quarter of this year.
According to a report released Monday by property consultant DTZ, only 112 private homes were sold in the primary market in October, and 192 units sold in November.
This, compared to the monthly average of 444 units sold in the first nine months of the year.
The October sales volume is the lowest since the release of official monthly sales data by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) in June 2007.
For the full year, DTZ estimated that the number of home sales in the primary and secondary markets will only make up about 35 per cent of last year’s sales, which saw some 38,100 units sold.
The figure is based on caveats lodged with the URA so far.
At the same time, the fall in private home prices have started to gather pace in the fourth quarter, with prime non-landed properties the hardest hit.
Prices of non-landed freehold private homes in the prime districts fell by 14 per cent quarter-on-quarter in the three months ended December, according to DTZ Research.
Overall, average private home prices have fallen 21.6 per cent year-on-year to S$1,160 per square feet, below the level of S$1,200 per sq ft in the second quarter of 2007.
Meanwhile, average monthly rents of prime non-landed homes have fallen 9.2 per cent to S$4.36 per square feet.
DTZ expects home sales to remain low next year as the recession takes its toll and homebuyers are concerned over job security.
Source : Channel NewsAsia - 29 Dec 2008
Private properties looking attractive
By Shila Naidu
THE recession has resulted in a 25-per-cent fall in private- property prices from their market peak, and with prices expected to dip further next year, there may be opportunities to pick up some bargains.
However, buyers of properties - whether for investment or occupancy - should do their homework before committing to such big-ticket items.
Here are 10 tips to keep firmly in mind.
1 CONSIDER LANDED
The executive director of HSR Property Group, Mr Eric Cheng, feels that if buyers are willing to fork out $1.2 million to $1.3million for a condominium, they should consider buying landed property instead.
Due to land scarcity in Singapore, there is always more demand than supply for landed property, which is not the case with condos, said Mr Cheng.
2 INSTALMENT RESERVE
Mr Cheng said it is important to invest within your means. Have a reserve of at least one year's worth of instalments in case of shocks, like a loss of income.
3 LEASING OR LIVING?
Mr Arvin Sylvester Lim, division director of Century 21 SHL Realty, said it is important to be sure if you plan to live in the property or rent it out.
If you are making it your home, the equation is simple: Find something that you like and can afford.
If you are looking to invest and rent out, do your research to see if there is good demand in an area, and if the rent will be enough to cover the instalment payment and still allow a profit.
4 DON'T WAIT TOO LONG
While one should hold back until one finds something ideal, Mr Lim does not encourage overspeculating on trends.
"Buying a house is not like buying a car. The moment you drive the car...the value drops, but with property the value can go up or down," he said.
Even though prices are expected to fall further, "a home is a must", Mr Lim said. He advises against pegging buying one to unpredictable market movements.
5 MAKE OFFERS FAST
Buyers who bought too many properties or can't afford to keep up with payments, given the weak economy, will be selling off their investments now, said Mr Shannan Govindarajoo, marketing manager at ERA.
He suggests you start looking and making reasonable offers as he thinks more buyers will be entering the market, which could mean prices for these "must-sell" properties may rise.
6 CHECK MASTER PLAN
Look at the Urban Redevelopment Authority's master plan and invest where the Government is pumping in money, said Mr Govindarajoo.
For instance, he thinks those interested in the Marina area should strike now, as prices are down by 40 per cent, compared to last year's.
Mr Lim said investing in property in that area will reap great returns when the integrated resort is ready as "a lot of the management staff will be living there, so rentals will be high".
7 SHOP FOR A LOAN
Banks are now becoming more cautious with making home loans and how much they are willing to lend, said Mr Govindarajoo.
He advised shopping around for a good home loan first, so that you do not commit yourself to a seller before knowing how much you have to work with.
8 PRICE VS VALUATION
Check the valuations of the property you are considering at different banks to make sure you?re getting a good deal, said Mr Govindarajoo.
9 OLDER CONDOS
Mr Parthiban Sadagopal, a Prop- Nex realtor, suggests buying a condo "between seven and 10 years old in the outskirts", like Pasir Ris or Tampines.
Judging from the trend seen after the 2003 recession, such condos are good buys for living in and investment, as you could hope to buy one at $400,000 to $500,000 now and sell it for up to $800,000 when the economy picks up.
Renting it out could fetch $3,000 a month as well.
10 DISTRICT 15
Keep your sights on the East Coast area of District 15, said Mr Cheng, as prices there are unlikely to dip drastically.
Good schools, malls and eateries add value, making it a good option for those who feel prime locations are too expensive. Meyer Road, Ceylon Road, Telok Kurau and Crane Road are some of the best places to buy a house, according to him.
Mr Govindarajoo agrees, saying District 15 is "evergreen".
I'll be happy if these words are coming from the PM, haha. Unfortunately they are not.
Seaview -
Esta -
All depends on what do you want!
Read this one: "if buyers are willing to fork out $1.2 million to $1.3million for a condominium, they should consider buying landed property instead."
On the same rational, I used to think landed properties were superior to condos. I was wondering why most people preferred condos. Over the years, i saw how inconsiderate neighbours tore down old houses and rebuilt new eyesore monstrosities that caused neighbouring houses to fall in value. Take a look at the 1st semi-houses along Tj Katong rd next to One Amber. The old adjoining houses were a handsome pair. One day, some idiot with a bit of money bought over one of them, tore it down and rebuilt a 3-storey monstrosity. It has detroyed the value of the adjoining house. I wouldn't want to live next to such a inconsiderate pompous neighbour. I am suprised the authority approvedl such a hideous oversized building.
On the same rational, I used to think landed properties were superior to condos. I was wondering why most people preferred condos. Over the years, i saw how inconsiderate neighbours tore down old houses and rebuilt new eyesore monstrosities that caused neighbouring houses to fall in value. Take a look at the 1st semi-houses along Tj Katong rd next to One Amber. The old adjoining houses were a handsome pair. One day, some idiot with a bit of money bought over one of them, tore it down and rebuilt a 3-storey monstrosity. It has detroyed the value of the adjoining house. I wouldn't want to live next to such a inconsiderate pompous neighbour. I am suprised the authority approvedl such a hideous oversized building.
If I'm rich enough I'll buy over both and built a bungalow haha. :p
If I'm rich enough I'll buy over both and built a bungalow haha. :p
Well, $1-2m will not get you a pair of semi-detached houses in that area. But that sum will get you condos in the area. For landed properties, $1-2m will get you a terraced house in a poor location.
I always hear people making sweeping statements that landed properties are better value than condos without comparing prices. As if all those who buy condos do not do their sum.
As the saying goes, if you think you have identified an investment opportunity that hasn't ocurred to other people, think again.
just buy what u like
no point buying something that ppl like
and u dun like
ask yourself this q
are u moving in or other ppl moving in?
Saw in classifieds that one agent claims to have transacted 10+ units in a single month. Even if he co-broke, how achievable is that?
East Lover
30-12-08, 15:26
Saw in classifieds that one agent claims to have transacted 10+ units in a single month. Even if he co-broke, how achievable is that?
Haha! Good question! yes, i saw that one also, it's always on the top of D15 classifieds... Joe, how true? Do you know this agent? which month he referred to? Oct 07? :scared-2:
On the same rational, I used to think landed properties were superior to condos. I was wondering why most people preferred condos. Over the years, i saw how inconsiderate neighbours tore down old houses and rebuilt new eyesore monstrosities that caused neighbouring houses to fall in value. Take a look at the 1st semi-houses along Tj Katong rd next to One Amber. The old adjoining houses were a handsome pair. One day, some idiot with a bit of money bought over one of them, tore it down and rebuilt a 3-storey monstrosity. It has detroyed the value of the adjoining house. I wouldn't want to live next to such a inconsiderate pompous neighbour. I am suprised the authority approvedl such a hideous oversized building.
hahaha.....i know that pair of corner house on TgKatg Road u talk abt....i used to admire it when i am at the lights but not anymore......
Geylang OKT
30-12-08, 21:36
Seaview looks very empty. I hope the property downturn will be muted.
Don't I get me wrong, I have a couple of properties in the vicinity too (currently tenanted out) so keeping fingers crossed. :ashamed1: :cheers1:
Haha! Good question! yes, i saw that one also, it's always on the top of D15 classifieds... Joe, how true? Do you know this agent? which month he referred to? Oct 07? :scared-2:
Have no comment on that guy. But some of my friends doing HDB still rock, closing 10 to 15 deals a month...
East Lover
02-01-09, 09:21
Business Times - 30 Dec 2008
DTZ expects 2009 to echo property price plunge of 2008
Prime district property prices fall by 20%; similar decline seen in 2009
By ARTHUR SIM
(SINGAPORE) Prices of condominiums and apartments in the prime districts have fallen by more than 20 per cent in 2008 on a year-on-year basis, says DTZ.
DTZ is also forecasting a further decline of 15-20 per cent for this segment of the market in 2009.
Based on its preliminary analysis of official data, DTZ said that prices of non-landed freehold private homes in the prime districts fell by 14 per cent quarter-on-quarter (qoq) in the fourth quarter of 2008.
This follows two consecutive quarters of declines of around 4.5 per cent each.
The prime districts include District 9, 10 and 11.
Overall average prime prices fell 21.6 per cent year-on-year (yoy) to $1,160 per square foot (psf), below the level of $1,200 psf registered in Q207.
Freehold non-landed homes outside the prime districts fell in Q408 but at a lower rate of 9.3 per cent qoq or 10.5 per cent yoy.
Landed housing prices also fell 5.7 per cent qoq, or 2.9 per cent yoy, islandwide in Q408.
The fall in prices follows dismal developer sales in October and November with only 112 and 192 units sold in the primary market respectively, compared to the monthly average of 444 units sold in the first nine months of the year.
DTZ said that based on caveats lodged, preliminary data from URA's REALIS showed that the number of transactions in the year is only about 35 per cent of last year's 38,100 units.
On the upside, the percentage of HDB upgraders continued to grow. In 2008, a higher proportion of purchasers with HDB addresses was registered with 37 per cent of all buyers expected to be HDB upgraders in 2008 compared to 22 per cent in 2007.
Based on available caveats in URA's REALIS, the number of buyers with HDB addresses in Q408 is 582. While this is a preliminary number, it represents 43 per cent of total caveats lodged so far in the fourth quarter. DTZ noted that this is higher than the 41 per cent in Q308, 36 per cent in Q208, and 28 per cent in Q108.
'HDB upgraders buy mainly for owner occupation, so falling private home prices is a good opportunity for them to upgrade with greater affordability,' said DTZ senior director (research), Chua Chor Hoon.
But DTZ said that the downturn in the economy will deter buyers from committing to property purchases and sales are expected to continue to remain low in 2009.
Lower rental returns will not help either.
DTZ said that average monthly rents of prime non-landed homes decreased in Q408 by 9.4 per cent qoq or 9.2 per cent yoy to $4.36 psf.
Outside the prime districts, rents held up better with an increase of 2 per cent yoy, despite a fall of 1.2 per cent qoq.
The extent of price corrections is still uncertain but Nomura has already adjusted its forecasts. In March, it forecast average prices in the luxury sector to fall by 32.3 per cent from the 2007 peak over 2008-2010 - 16.9 per cent in 2008, 10.3 per cent in 2009 and 9.3 per cent in 2010.
It now expects luxury prices to fall 43.8 per cent from the peak, and mass residential prices to fall 32.1 per cent as yields move out by an additional 25-50 basis-points.
OCBC analysts also believe that high-end property prices could decline by 15-20 per cent in 2009 due to weak sentiment, unsold inventories and potential risks of buyers' default and fire-sales.
OCBC expects mass market property prices to remain resilient, supported by the stability in HDB prices. For the mid-market properties, it expects prices to fall further in 2009, with a projected decline of 5-10 per cent.
VIPCLUB2004
02-01-09, 13:35
No need to rush at the moment, especially for own stay... wait for S$700psf :D
East Lover
02-01-09, 13:39
No need to rush at the moment, especially for own stay... wait for S$700psf :D
S$700psf? possible meh? so far the Esta price quite hold up leh...
VIPCLUB2004
02-01-09, 13:59
The trend show that S$700 is very promising ^o^ The index is around 180 in Q1 2008 while only 120 in Q1 2006, almost 50% up, so no supprise if drop 25% in the future, still have 12%+ gain not bad, I just wait and see la :sleep:
https://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2008/pr08-107a7.pdf
You think ESTA owners will sell at loss?
there is no upside potential to Esta now that its Top-ed and for all to see
as it is ( unlike the brochures - those who sold last year via brochures and floor plan managed to strike a good deal )
in other words this project lacks the charm or "x" factor that makes buyers want to buy it
there is no upside potential to Esta now that its Top-ed and for all to see
as it is ( unlike the brochures - those who sold last year via brochures and floor plan managed to strike a good deal )
in other words this project lacks the charm or "x" factor that makes buyers want to buy it
The Esta's upside potential will not be due to its fantastic charm or X factor. It will be due to general economy and property market recovery. In other words, no upside for years to come, but if you can spot one that is cheap enough to hold for years just getting above average rental yield, of course can BUY! Despite all the condo's faults, this location is after all better than many others in "city fringe", and it is freehold and D15 too. Don't want to talk bad about some of those city fringe condos but if same price, I would rather take this ESTA!
East Lover
02-01-09, 15:46
The Esta's upside potential will not be due to its fantastic charm or X factor. It will be due to general economy and property market recovery. In other words, no upside for years to come, but if you can spot one that is cheap enough to hold for years just getting above average rental yield, of course can BUY! Despite all the condo's faults, this location is after all better than many others in "city fringe", and it is freehold and D15 too. Don't want to talk bad about some of those city fringe condos but if same price, I would rather take this ESTA!
Talking about the rental yield, how much is the rental now in Esta in average? heard the seaview very empty, not many unit rented out...
Talking about the rental yield, how much is the rental now in Esta in average? heard the seaview very empty, not many unit rented out...
Seaview: my angmor colleague just rented one 3 bedroom for $3000 pm. Esta maybe can command $500 less? Or more?
East Lover
02-01-09, 16:01
Seaview: my angmor colleague just rented one 3 bedroom for $3000 pm. Esta maybe can command $500 less? Or more?
Sure or not? $3000 PM only? that's damn cheap. If taking up $800K home loan, that rental only enough to cover the interest?
Sure or not? $3000 PM only? that's damn cheap. If taking up $800K home loan, that rental only enough to cover the interest?
For around $800k home loan at SIBOR + markup, monthly installment (capital repayment + interest) is slightly less than $3000. I know because I just re-financed my own home (not in D15) last month with DBS.
Yeah, my colleague very lucky. This $3000 monthly rental only enough for studio apartment at The Sail. At Seaview he got better quality apartment, better facilities, bigger space (one person stay 3 bedrooms!). $3000 pm is unfurnished. I have been to his condo, quite nice, and environment is good too.
The trend show that S$700 is very promising ^o^ The index is around 180 in Q1 2008 while only 120 in Q1 2006, almost 50% up, so no supprise if drop 25% in the future, still have 12%+ gain not bad, I just wait and see la :sleep:
https://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2008/pr08-107a7.pdf
I dont think it will reach $700, unless the rental market is very bad, if not most of the owner if not for own stay will try to rent it out. As it is already top, loan already been secured, I think it will hold at $780 to $800.
Sure or not? $3000 PM only? that's damn cheap. If taking up $800K home loan, that rental only enough to cover the interest?
If the loan is $800K with 3% interest rate for 30yrs, the mthly installment is about $3400. Interest is about $2000 and $1400 for principal repayment. You just need to top up $400 more in cash. Not as good as last year but but good enough to sustain the installment. Not bad lah.
East Lover
02-01-09, 17:29
If the loan is $800K with 3% interest rate for 30yrs, the mthly installment is about $3400. Interest is about $2000 and $1400 for principal repayment. You just need to top up $400 more in cash. Not as good as last year but but good enough to sustain the installment. Not bad lah.
Need to plus the $$$ for monthly maintenance and property tax, round up to another $300 to $400 more per mth? 30 years is pretty long, a lot of $$$ paid will go for bank for interest...
Nevertheless, as long as the owener can hold for one more year, can sell high to make profit liao. That means price won't fall down so easily.
I dont think it will reach $700, unless the rental market is very bad, if not most of the owner if not for own stay will try to rent it out. As it is already top, loan already been secured, I think it will hold at $780 to $800.
we need to consider that most of the first owners in esta got it at a relatively low psf around 6XX-7XX, so i guess unless market really bad, it would still be relatively affordable to service the loan and earn from low rental and sell high in future rather than sell now as firesale
East Lover
02-01-09, 17:53
分析师：私宅办公楼售价和租金明年至少再退低一两成 (2008-12-31)
想买房地产？也许等到2009年下半年以后吧！
分析师认为，不管是私宅、办公楼或工业厂房，售价和租金在2009年至少还会退低10％至20％。若不是自用，买家无需操之过急。
由于银行收紧贷款的情况料在短期内不会改善，加上本地经济持续恶化，失业人数料将增加，莱坊(Knight Frank)研究部主管麦俊荣预计，私宅、办公楼或工业厂房等的售价和租金将继续下跌10％至15％，而零售商店的租金也会下降10％至15％。
他说：“房地产市场一般落后大市约半年左右，所以我们目前还未见到最糟的情况。2009年首三个月，新推出市场的项目依然将屈指可数。一些小规模的发展商可能因为银行的贷款条件所需而被迫削价推出项目。此外，在经济越变越劣的情况下，业主也相信会调整要求，开出较实际的价格。”
“到了下半年，若经济情况渐渐明朗化，银行恢复放贷，发展商也许会以新颖的销售手法和其他折扣或优惠，比如赞助火险、家具和法律费用等来吸引买家，让买气起死回生。不过，若下半年继续传出坏消息，私宅价格恐怕要到2010年才会见底。大型发展商相信还有足够的后备‘忍’到后年。”
戴德梁行(DTZ)也预测，私宅价格在明年将进一步下滑15％至20％。华侨银行投资研究(OCBC Investment Research)则认为，在未售出的库存增加，以及一些在延迟付款计划下无法偿还剩余款项的人需贱卖脱售下，高档私宅可能在明年下跌15％至20％，中档私宅预计下跌5％至10％，大众化私宅则有组屋提升者支撑，预计将大致持平。
目前对本地楼市持最为悲观预测的野村证券(Nomura)认为，我国高档私宅的身价可能在2008至2010年之间共暴跌43.8％，而大众化私宅也无法幸免，可能锐减32.1％。
2008年的楼市好比跑了100米后，上气不接下气，几乎瘫在地上。在2007年屡创新高后，本地楼市在2008年遭金融海啸吹袭入“冷宫”，从热火的巅峰急速冷却，开始步入“冬眠期”。
楼市凄凄惨惨，为免不利消息给予市场压力，政府在10月底宣布暂时冻结政府售地计划；还在“正选”名单上的地段则被转到备售名单。2009年上半年政府售地计划的全部地段也将拨入备售名单中。
今年售出新私宅 数目18年来最低
第一太平戴维斯(Savills)行销与业务开发主管邱瑞荣指出，金融海啸和信贷危机是罪魁祸首，把买气给浇熄了，同时在买家心中形成恐慌。
今年售出的新私宅单位数目为18年、90年代初以来最低纪录，全年售出的新私宅单位总数为4300个左右。相比之下，2007年全年总共有1万4000个新私宅单位售出，今年的销售成绩料不到去年的三分之一。
不单是销售成绩惨淡，本地楼价的售价和租金也“跌跌不休”。
今年上半年，私宅价格上升速度放慢了一半。到了第二季，全岛私宅价格上涨速度继续放慢，价格指数只上升0.2％，其中，前年一路飙涨的高档豪宅价格率先“沦陷”，往下滑落了0.1％。
进入第三季，在一些发展商采取薄利多销的策略后，买家又开始回流。
争取到不错销售成绩的莉雅苑(Livia)、Clover by the Park、Concourse Skyline和达高轩(Dakota Residences)等都是以较低的平均尺价售出。除Concourse Skyline以外，这些项目的尺价都在1000元以下。
其中，城市发展的莉雅苑是2008年最好卖的项目，截至11月共卖出337个单位。该项目刚推出时，平均尺价是每平方英尺650元，较附近项目的近800元售价来得低。
不过，7月份的楼市旺气只是昙花一现，美国的“两房”事件和我国第二季经济数据，在短短几个星期内就把信心脆弱的房屋买家给吓跑。
9月份暴发的金融海啸刮起的滔天巨浪更是把整个楼市给全盘淹没了，全岛楼价终于“失守”，下滑2.4％。不但是高档私宅价格，就连中低档私宅、办公楼，以及商店的价格和租金，也都在今年第三季扭转风向，出现自2004年以来的第一次下跌。
过去三个月，楼市更为惨淡。戴德梁行最新发表的数据显示，整体而言，私人公寓第四季的平均价格较去年同期下滑了21.6％，为每平方英尺1160元，这也比2007年第二季所取得的每平方英尺1200元还要低。
不单是新私宅受冲击，转售市场也遭池鱼之殃。去年“炒气”最旺的滨海舫(The Sail @ Marina)，面向滨海湾的高楼海景单位成交价今年初曾突破每平方英尺3000元，但目前价格已滑落至1300元到1900元。
担心新的一年会引来更多风吹草动，为“清货”，一些发展商最近也开始大派甜头，折价10％至50％不等。位于巴耶利峇路上段的Evania，上个月便削价23％，由原本在3月份定下的每平方英尺830元售价，锐降至640元，以便重新推出剩余的40个单位，并卖出其中15个。
新私宅展示厅 周日不见一个人影
随着假期、佳节的到来，银行又不肯放贷，发展商派出的甜头也不管用了。去年门庭若市的私宅展示厅变成了鬼城。一名市场人士透露，过去一个月里，新私宅展示厅周日连一个人影都不见，周末最多也只有10人左右前来，类似沙斯爆发时的窘境。
麦俊荣表示，展示厅空荡荡的情况相信会至少会持续到明年上半年，直到价格进一步下跌以及市场信心恢复为止。
虽然楼市至少在六个月至一年内料不会“解冻”，售价还可能继续南下，但一些市场人士认为，冰雪未全融的时候是进场的最佳时机。
邱瑞荣说：“外在环境不明朗，使买家对价格很敏感。这也促成2008年成为大众化私宅之年。2009年依然如此，每平方英尺1000元以下的项目较继续为焦点所在。不过，由于发展商过去一年多标地的价格相当高，新项目售价进一步下跌的空间有限，除非发展商亏本卖出。此外，不管经济情况有多恶劣，市场还是不乏一批组屋提升者以及组织新家庭的国人。再来，只要是地点好、概念新颖的项目还是会有买家上门。” 他表示，一些发展商已做好准备在农历新年之后将新项目，或把现有重新包装再推出。 仲量联行(JLL)研究部主管蔡炎亮博士则指出，在私宅租金和售价差额缩小的情况下，购买房地产将变得更具有吸引力，一些租户会考虑进场。
《联合早报》
If the loan is $800K with 3% interest rate for 30yrs, the mthly installment is about $3400. Interest is about $2000 and $1400 for principal repayment. You just need to top up $400 more in cash. Not as good as last year but but good enough to sustain the installment. Not bad lah.
If your interest rate is 3%, it is time to reprice your loan! I didn't know now still got people paying 3% interest, especially when interest rates are going down all around.
Eh, but today SOR (swap offer rate) just increased leh. From OCBC.
If your interest rate is 3%, it is time to reprice your loan! I didn't know now still got people paying 3% interest, especially when interest rates are going down all around.
Eh, but today SOR (swap offer rate) just increased leh. From OCBC.
Why? Plan for the worst ---> not for the best case and you are on safe ground.
Many people make this same mistake of always taking today's interest rate in their financial planning. When interest rate goes up, they panic and struggle with it.
I always compute based on higher interest rate than existing one. This will help me to project slightly into the future (if it does goes up again).
If interest rate stays low, I'm happy :)
VIPCLUB2004
03-01-09, 11:24
Why? Plan for the worst ---> not for the best case and you are on safe ground.
Many people make this same mistake of always taking today's interest rate in their financial planning. When interest rate goes up, they panic and struggle with it.
I always compute based on higher interest rate than existing one. This will help me to project slightly into the future (if it does goes up again).
If interest rate stays low, I'm happy :)
Very true! The interest rate was around 2.5% in 2005 when I bought a flat and it reach 4.5% in 2007... When you look at your installment, and find that almost 70% is for the interest and only 30% is for the principle, you will feel very painful....
By look at the trend of the condo price for tha past 15 years, I am quite confident that the price will drop 20% in 1 or 2 years, and most likely the sisuation in 2006 & 2007 will not happen in near future, maybe around 2016 & 2017. The economy recover will be L shape, not V shape, because the situation around Singapore has changed a lot for the past 10 years, and the situation for Singapore is tougher than ever, and the worst time is not arrived yet, if you know that more than 1/3 factories in China has been closed just in the past a few months. Singapore is in the higher position of the economy chain, so takes time to see the worst situation... I hope I am wrong....
VIPCLUB2004
03-01-09, 11:35
对于已买了CONDO自住的，就好好享受优质的住居条件，我很羡慕:) 对08年买CONDO来投资的， 就不讲太多了，跟在3500点买新加坡股票差别不大，要“长期持有”，多长我就不知到了，反正不短:doh: 对于现在还想买的，不管是自住还是投资，恐怕时机不怎么对，现在CONDO的价格象一把急速掉下的刀，用手去接住是很危险的， 最好等刀扎到地上，摇晃几下，再拿起来比较安全:spliff:
we need to consider that most of the first owners in esta got it at a relatively low psf around 6XX-7XX, so i guess unless market really bad, it would still be relatively affordable to service the loan and earn from low rental and sell high in future rather than sell now as firesale
yup. i still have the price list for esta dated 01 Dec 2007. psf ranged from 680-750. (my price list is only for B & C type).
I also think that there are strong fans that favour east side district, and many for own stay. The price is holding up well at East side condo. unlike new condo estate like shenton way, beach road area which is are mainly from speculator or investor favour for the rental return. Hence the huge swing in price.
For the price to go down further, the economy has to be more pessimistic than now.. i think..
East Lover
05-01-09, 08:40
对于已买了CONDO自住的，就好好享受优质的住居条件，我很羡慕:) 对08年买CONDO来投资的， 就不讲太多了，跟在3500点买新加坡股票差别不大，要“长期持有”，多长我就不知到了，反正不短:doh: 对于现在还想买的，不管是自住还是投资，恐怕时机不怎么对，现在CONDO的价格象一把急速掉下的刀，用手去接住是很危险的， 最好等刀扎到地上，摇晃几下，再拿起来比较安全:spliff:
讲得非常形象！不管是自住还是投资, 还是得等等再说。哪怕价钱又从谷底升上了再买，心里也踏实点儿。:) 2009可是风声鹤唳的一年啊，小心驶得万年船。:spliff:
East Lover
05-01-09, 09:08
Property Prices Must Plunge
The STI stock market index has plunged about 20% from its peak, but the URA property index still seems to move up exponentially.
How can this be?
Let’s study the STI graph superimposed over the URA property index graph. Both graphs are scaled such that their time axes coincide, and their Asian financial crisis bottoms & dotcom peaks are at the same levels. STI is indicated by the dark blue line, while the pink line with blue crosses is for the URA index for condominiums (the other lines are for detached, semi-detached, terrace and apartments):
http://www.salary.sg/historical-property-index-against-STI-2008-large.gif
You should be able to see from the 2 graphs that the property bottom in end 1998 lagged the stocks bottom by about a quarter (i.e. 3 months). Similarly, the property peak in mid 2000 also lagged the stocks peak by about 1 to 2 quarters.
Now, fast forward to end 2007. The stock market has clearly tanked, amidst high inflation and comparatively stagnant salaries. But property is apparently still moving up, up and up! This can’t continue.
I hereby predict that property prices will plunge within the next 3 to 6 months. By at least 20%.
Want more evidence? In the last month (February), property developers were so spooked by the worsening economy that they launched only 343 units in the whole country, out of which only a miserable 170 got sold (excluding ECs). Oh yeah, maybe it’s the Chinese New Year.
References: URA news release (http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/text/2008/pr08-12.html) and STI data (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5ESTI&t=my) in Yahoo! Finance.
https://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2008/pr08-107a7.pdf
East Lover
05-01-09, 09:21
Not allowed to edit on the old post already...
By the way, the above one is an old article posted on march 08, you can compare with the latest URA pdf to see how accurate his pridection is...
the latest Residential Price Index by URA:
https://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2008/pr08-107a7.pdf
VIPCLUB2004
05-01-09, 15:47
I love east area, especially Marine Parade :) But I am only willing to pay around $700 psf for a 3 room 1300+ sqf condo unit, FH or LH doesn't matter very much, since I will sell it within 10 years :D
I will sell it within 10 years :D
Migrating?
Property Prices Must Plunge
The STI stock market index has plunged about 20% from its peak, but the URA property index still seems to move up exponentially.
How can this be?
Let’s study the STI graph superimposed over the URA property index graph. Both graphs are scaled such that their time axes coincide, and their Asian financial crisis bottoms & dotcom peaks are at the same levels. STI is indicated by the dark blue line, while the pink line with blue crosses is for the URA index for condominiums (the other lines are for detached, semi-detached, terrace and apartments):
http://www.salary.sg/historical-property-index-against-STI-2008-large.gif
You should be able to see from the 2 graphs that the property bottom in end 1998 lagged the stocks bottom by about a quarter (i.e. 3 months). Similarly, the property peak in mid 2000 also lagged the stocks peak by about 1 to 2 quarters.
Now, fast forward to end 2007. The stock market has clearly tanked, amidst high inflation and comparatively stagnant salaries. But property is apparently still moving up, up and up! This can’t continue.
I hereby predict that property prices will plunge within the next 3 to 6 months. By at least 20%.
Want more evidence? In the last month (February), property developers were so spooked by the worsening economy that they launched only 343 units in the whole country, out of which only a miserable 170 got sold (excluding ECs). Oh yeah, maybe it’s the Chinese New Year.
References: URA news release (http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/text/2008/pr08-12.html) and STI data (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5ESTI&t=my) in Yahoo! Finance.
https://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2008/pr08-107a7.pdf
A lot of people do not realise how the URA data is computed. The data is based on a 12-quarter rolling basis in assigning weights to the various regions - in other words behind the curve and the property market's spot physical prices. The actual property price fall has been much steeper than that indicated by URA data.
Furthermore, property stocks listed on the SGX discount way ahead with some stocks having fallen by 60-80%. For those who have not noticed, property stocks have been rallying more than other stocks listed on the SGX over the last 1-2 weeks despite the release of the poor 4Q08 URA property data. A recovery in physical property prices is usually 6 months after a recovery in stock prices (based on historical recessions) as the stock market is highly anticipatory. At this juncture, it's still too early to conclude there's truly a recovery in stock prices as the recent rally could be a just blip.
VIPCLUB2004
06-01-09, 12:33
Migrating?
Likely, life in Singapore is very very stressful :banghead: Maybe go to Australia or China...
Heard #1X-04 was sold for 904psf. 3 room, 1313sqft, walk in balcony.
East Lover
07-01-09, 08:53
Heard #1X-04 was sold for 904psf. 3 room, 1313sqft, walk in balcony.
Wow! nearly 1.2ml, the seller must have a big fat chinese new year liao!
Heard #1X-04 was sold for 904psf. 3 room, 1313sqft, walk in balcony.
This is wat I HEARD onli. Will see if any caveats is lodged in few weeks time.
Wow! nearly 1.2ml, the seller must have a big fat chinese new year liao!
1.2 million would had been better spend for One Amber.:2cents:
1.2 million would had been better spend for One Amber.:2cents:
Why do you think 1Amber is better?
During the last bull run Esta hit a record or 1224psf.
One Amber 1395psf, even low floor #06-01 was sold at 1220psf. So the next cycle, which project will get a better price.
But of course I dun know when will be the next bull run(maybe after 2011/12?)
So given the asking price of One Amber which some of the high floor units had come down to less then 950psf, I feel One Amber is better. :2cents:
1.2 million would had been better spend for One Amber.:2cents:
But of course buyer have a choice, maybe he need to move in soon as One Amber need to wait till year end:)
During the last bull run Esta hit a record or 1224psf.
One Amber 1395psf, even low floor #06-01 was sold at 1220psf. So the next cycle, which project will get a better price.
But of course I dun know when will be the next bull run(maybe after 2011/12?)
So given the asking price of One Amber which some of the high floor units had come down to less then 950psf, I feel One Amber is better. :2cents:
can it be, esta is already TOP, it can fetch immediate return from rental market and the built quality is at satisfactory level, but for one amber is still unknown till iit TOP ?
During the last bull run Esta hit a record or 1224psf.
One Amber 1395psf, even low floor #06-01 was sold at 1220psf. So the next cycle, which project will get a better price.
But of course I dun know when will be the next bull run(maybe after 2011/12?)
So given the asking price of One Amber which some of the high floor units had come down to less then 950psf, I feel One Amber is better. :2cents:
Huh? IMHO i think Esta is undervalued among the three. What irks me is some silly agents keep rattling Esta cramped lah, blah blah... Obviously these shallow minded individuals haven't the faintest idea how to compute space and crampness mathematically. Until the project TOP, this lie has been going around. Wanna see a cramped project, try Parc Emily.
Till now, some still keep rattling Seaview is one notch above without realising those pigeon hole rooms in Seaview just ain't enough to fit modern adult man. Do we need such a huge balcony? To sleep on it? No doubt landscape is nice and the compound is big.
One Amber... IMHO way over valued and worst of the three... Odd shaped layout, poor utilisation of livable space. Many unit's living room look out to neighbour's wall or into neighbour's unit. Eg. Stack 1, 7, 21, 27 Living room can shake hand with your neighbour at their living room. 6 to 7 units on a single level is way too many.
Of course, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Good luck :)
Now there're not many units in Esta for sale but there are so many units in One Amber for sale (DPS, TOP this year). So now of cos many agents heavily promote One Amber la...
Huh? IMHO i think Esta is undervalued among the three. What irks me is some silly agents keep rattling Esta cramped lah, blah blah... Obviously these shallow minded individuals haven't the faintest idea how to compute space and crampness mathematically. Until the project TOP, this lie has been going around. Wanna see a cramped project, try Parc Emily.
Till now, some still keep rattling Seaview is one notch above without realising those pigeon hole rooms in Seaview just ain't enough to fit modern adult man. Do we need such a huge balcony? To sleep on it? No doubt landscape is nice and the compound is big.
One Amber... IMHO way over valued and worst of the three... Odd shaped layout, poor utilisation of livable space. Many unit's living room look out to neighbour's wall or into neighbour's unit. Eg. Stack 1, 7, 21, 27 Living room can shake hand with your neighbour at their living room. 6 to 7 units on a single level is way too many.
Of course, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Good luck :)
Its not sour grapes or anything of that sort - but facts are fact.
When you enter the Esta, the charm and feel of condo luxury is not there
if you compare it with The Sea View.
The car park lobby, function room, gym in Esta is a disappointment.
The balcony is too narrow and it does not provide that feeling of relaxation.
Even Cote d Azur have a decent air conditioned lobby with glass door at
carpark level and ground level that gives the condo a feel good factor.
Why move into condo if that feeling is not achieved - rather new HDB
estates are better designed.......
Thou i own a unit for investment but i state the facts as i am very
disappointed with MCL.........
Its not sour grapes or anything of that sort - but facts are fact.
When you enter the Esta, the charm and feel of condo luxury is not there
if you compare it with The Sea View.
The car park lobby, function room, gym in Esta is a disappointment.
The balcony is too narrow and it does not provide that feeling of relaxation.
Even Cote d Azur have a decent air conditioned lobby with glass door at
carpark level and ground level that gives the condo a feel good factor.
Why move into condo if that feeling is not achieved - rather new HDB
estates are better designed.......
Thou i own a unit for investment but i state the facts as i am very
disappointed with MCL.........
Bro, Seaview's function room is a league on its own. Award winning Heritage Building with none too many able to match.
Esta Gym i find it's ok for 400 units, vs Cote 600+ Seaview 500+ units, esp Cote gym a bit small for such a big devt.
Air conditioned lobby with glass door at carpark level and ground level are nice to have. But consdering owners are the ones ultimately paying for the bills for these nice comfy while majority of the time enjoyed by God knows who, i think i can pass :)
Well personally i am not a big fan of Balcony as i spend very little time of my life there.... I would rather have more livable space... Of course there are Balcony fans out there :)
Wow! nearly 1.2ml, the seller must have a big fat chinese new year liao!
Not surprising, can see the sea ah....:)
Bro, Seaview's function room is a league on its own. Award winning Heritage Building with none too many able to match.
Esta Gym i find it's ok for 400 units, vs Cote 600+ Seaview 500+ units, esp Cote gym a bit small for such a big devt.
Air conditioned lobby with glass door at carpark level and ground level are nice to have. But consdering owners are the ones ultimately paying for the bills for these nice comfy while majority of the time enjoyed by God knows who, i think i can pass :)
Well personally i am not a big fan of Balcony as i spend very little time of my life there.... I would rather have more livable space... Of course there are Balcony fans out there :)
The sea view occupants aren't big fans of their own Balcony as well. So far from the few blocks which I can see from top to bottom, most of the balconies are under utilized. Hardly see people out in the balcony. Some put fridge/washing machine (I wonder why?)
The sea view occupants aren't big fans of their own Balcony as well. So far from the few blocks which I can see from top to bottom, most of the balconies are under utilized. Hardly see people out in the balcony. Some put fridge/washing machine (I wonder why?)
Well i guess many seaview owners are also wondering how to maximise usage of balcony, struggling with the small rooms everyday. Fridge/ washing machine seems to be the few available items to put there besides laundry. We can't really put a 50 inch LCD at the balcony, can we? Haha...
I reckon Developers are taking consumers for a ride... using the extra bonus GFA from govt for balcony n planter and selling to consumer as full cost $psf. Therefore i prefer not too big balcony :)
Btw, I Love the Olympic length big swimming pool Esta has, winning Seaview kidney pool & lap pool hands down :)
thomastansb
10-01-09, 13:53
THE ESTA (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=THE%20ESTA&street_name=AMBER%20GARDENS&property_type_code=24%27%29;) AMBER GARDENS Condominium 1 1,150,000 1,561 737 Dec-08
$737 PSF... What is happening???? Even low floor also shouldn't hit 737. Prices like go back to 2006 level now. Dun know when will go back 2004-05 level. Haha.
THE ESTA (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=THE%20ESTA&street_name=AMBER%20GARDENS&property_type_code=24%27%29;) AMBER GARDENS Condominium 1 1,150,000 1,561 737 Dec-08
$737 PSF... What is happening???? Even low floor also shouldn't hit 737. Prices like go back to 2006 level now. Dun know when will go back 2004-05 level. Haha.
This may be a launch-price caveat or what I call a "late caveat". Joe, could you kindly verify?
On a related note, BT reported yesterday that "four recent sub-sales have been transacted at 20% below launch price". (Google this sentence to find the article).
VIPCLUB2004
10-01-09, 21:28
THE ESTA (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popUp%28%27submitSISV.do?project_name=THE%20ESTA&street_name=AMBER%20GARDENS&property_type_code=24%27%29;) AMBER GARDENS Condominium 1 1,150,000 1,561 737 Dec-08
$737 PSF... What is happening???? Even low floor also shouldn't hit 737. Prices like go back to 2006 level now. Dun know when will go back 2004-05 level. Haha.
2004-05 level will come again in 2010, just wait and see.... There is no much room for house price to rise in Singapore, limited by the household income level, unless when more and more household income rise to more than S$200K to 300K, because house price should be less than 3 times of the household annual income, but only around 10% of Singapore household earn more than S$200K, so condo supply is more than demand :sleep:
This may be a launch-price caveat or what I call a "late caveat". Joe, could you kindly verify?
On a related note, BT reported yesterday that "four recent sub-sales have been transacted at 20% below launch price". (Google this sentence to find the article).
Even fire sale drop to 800psf will be taken up, 737psf most likely will be the launch price, I check later and update. Latest transaction is stack 17 high floor sold today at 950psf
East Lover
13-01-09, 08:44
Even fire sale drop to 800psf will be taken up, 737psf most likely will be the launch price, I check later and update. Latest transaction is stack 17 high floor sold today at 950psf
Hi Joe,
How you found out whether this 737psf is a launch price or from fire sales?
In today's BT:
In the high-end segment, Citigroup says that properties such as Ardmore Park have seen price corrections of about 35 per cent from a year ago but still reckons prices could fall by another 30-40 per cent this year to reach 2003 and 1998 levels. This would imply a 55-60 per cent decline from the peak in 2007.
Similarly for the mid-tier segment, Citigroup believes a further price decline of around 35 per cent is possible, amounting to a 45 per cent decline from 2007 levels, while the mass-market segment could fall by another 10-15 per cent.
The entire article can be found in the following, which is an excellent site "tracking" all property news:
http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/harder-knock-seen-for-property-prices/
VIPCLUB2004
14-01-09, 16:05
In today's BT:
The entire article can be found in the following, which is an excellent site "tracking" all property news:
http://luxuryasiahome.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/harder-knock-seen-for-property-prices/
The number of retrench in Q1 2009 will be more than the number of whole 2008, and more foreigners will leave Singapore, which will cause the private property price & rental drop futher in 2009 & 2010, which is a certain and I am waiting for that time. :D I have no idea about 1998 level, but 2004 level surely will be achieved in near future, I still miss the time that S$1600/mth can rent a 3+1 1300 sqf condo at Tanag Merah in 2004, now even cannot use that amount of $$ to rent a 3+1 HDB flat at Jurong West!!! :scared-4: So don't supprise if that time visit Singapore again in near future :spliff:
The number of retrench in Q1 2009 will be more than the number of whole 2008, and more foreigners will leave Singapore, which will cause the private property price & rental drop futher in 2009 & 2010, which is a certain and I am waiting for that time. :D I have no idea about 1998 level, but 2004 level surely will be achieved in near future, I still miss the time that S$1600/mth can rent a 3+1 1300 sqf condo at Tanag Merah in 2004, now even cannot use that amount of $$ to rent a 3+1 HDB flat at Jurong West!!! :scared-4: So don't supprise if that time visit Singapore again in near future :spliff:
Today's article on the wide discrepancy between seller's asking price and valuer's valuation price would further push away buyers.
A check with valuer on ESTA psf will sound depressing for sellers.
Buyers I heard are now asking for latest evidence of valuation and must be done by a reputable valuer. Otherwise, buyer runs the risk of putting more downpayment since financing amount is very much lower. And that affects the renovation and appliances budget.
Few TOP projects coming up soon.. Better bargain there.
My D** banker actually valued a 3bedder 1346sq ft unit in esta at 920psf ! Any genuine buyer need good valuation in any condo for loan purpose, can pvt me for recommendation...:)
My D** banker actually valued a 3bedder 1346sq ft unit in esta at 920psf ! Any genuine buyer need good valuation in any condo for loan purpose, can pvt me for recommendation...:)
Maybe is high floor, good facing unit etc? Thank valuer considers such factors right?
VIPCLUB2004
15-01-09, 10:43
Today's article on the wide discrepancy between seller's asking price and valuer's valuation price would further push away buyers.
A check with valuer on ESTA psf will sound depressing for sellers.
Buyers I heard are now asking for latest evidence of valuation and must be done by a reputable valuer. Otherwise, buyer runs the risk of putting more downpayment since financing amount is very much lower. And that affects the renovation and appliances budget.
Few TOP projects coming up soon.. Better bargain there.
I also just read that article on TODAY, and was shocked by the difference, the bank's evaluation price of condo is only 70% to 80% of the seller's asking price, and landed property is even worse. Many buyers will face big problems to get a loan since banks are more & more caucious, which will push the property market down futher.... Another wealth re-distribution is on the way in property market just after the re-distribution of wealth in stock market :sleep:
I also just read that article on TODAY, and was shocked by the difference, the bank's evaluation price of condo is only 70% to 80% of the seller's asking price, and landed property is even worse. Many buyers will face big problems to get a loan since banks are more & more caucious, which will push the property market down futher.... Another wealth re-distribution is on the way in property market just after the re-distribution of wealth in stock market :sleep:
True. Put it this way:
A 2006 completed freehold 32-unit walkup at Telok Kurau 500m away, with 150k of renovation and furnishings thrown in, penthouse unit, now going for $490psf and still no takers.
Does Esta/Amber/Seaview justify double that price?
hayata1972
15-01-09, 10:59
True. Put it this way:
A 2006 completed freehold 32-unit walkup at Telok Kurau 500m away, with 150k of renovation and furnishings thrown in, penthouse unit, now going for $490psf and still no takers.
Does Esta/Amber/Seaview justify double that price?
Boutique project like bleu are right now super overpriced...
VIPCLUB2004
15-01-09, 11:04
True. Put it this way:
A 2006 completed freehold 32-unit walkup at Telok Kurau 500m away, with 150k of renovation and furnishings thrown in, penthouse unit, now going for $490psf and still no takers.
Does Esta/Amber/Seaview justify double that price?
If I am not wrong, many condo in east area sell below $500 psf in 2004 & 2005, $1000 psf or even much more for a condo in east area is really crazy to me, nobody know exactly how much the price will drop in future, but surely the property market is in down turn in 2009 & 2010.... :sleep: for potential buyers, sleep is the most safety things to do now :D for potential sellers, please act fast if still can get prifit, otherwise the interests $$ will eat a lot of our hard earn $$$ :scared-3:
If I am not wrong, many condo in east area sell below $500 psf in 2004 & 2005, $1000 psf or even much more for a condo in east area is really crazy to me, nobody know exactly how much the price will drop in future, but surely the property market is in down turn in 2009 & 2010.... :sleep: sleep is the most safety things to do now :D
Sigh i wish it was that easy. i recently sold everything so now technically 'homeless', and staying with parents ain't really that fun (although the food will be better hmmmmm).
Just hope that prices start correcting to fair value - i dun mind losing a bit down the road, but not to an extent that banks will ask for topups sooner than later.
WolleyDragon
15-01-09, 11:36
Today's article on the wide discrepancy between seller's asking price and valuer's valuation price would further push away buyers.
A check with valuer on ESTA psf will sound depressing for sellers.
Buyers I heard are now asking for latest evidence of valuation and must be done by a reputable valuer. Otherwise, buyer runs the risk of putting more downpayment since financing amount is very much lower. And that affects the renovation and appliances budget.
Few TOP projects coming up soon.. Better bargain there.
This article is a wake-up call.. Sellers should face reality that $1K psf era is dead now.. :)
Sigh i wish it was that easy. i recently sold everything so now technically 'homeless', and staying with parents ain't really that fun (although the food will be better hmmmmm).
Just hope that prices start correcting to fair value - i dun mind losing a bit down the road, but not to an extent that banks will ask for topups sooner than later.
hey bro, you sold your place? really???
Just hope that prices start correcting to fair value - i dun mind losing a bit down the road, but not to an extent that banks will ask for topups sooner than later.
Unless you are buying to flip. Otherwise property primarily for stay or long term capital gain.
Totally agree. I always believe in long term rather than trying to flip quickly. If you plan long term, you will have a better understanding of your financial position in the long run and will take into considerations of many other factors.
I know of some flippers who only look short term to make quick profits and they take pretty high risks in doing so. I wish them good luck.
Saw some comments from postings saying that property price should be <3 times the household annual income. I don't see the logic here. Whatever you buy today - rice, sugar, gold, car, newspaper, etc, how much it cost depends on the demands, raw materials cost, supply, etc. Can you say that gold price should be one-tenth your monthly income?
If the property price does goes down to what some have expected, congratulation to you. You get a good deal. However think about it, if the property price stays low for many years and you plan to sell for some reasons, do you want the property price to goes up? I'm sure you want that to happen so that you can make some profits.
There are always some risks in buying - whether it is property, car, stocks or gold. Even if you married your love one, there is also some risks involved but we still beleive it is worth it. How much risks and how much it should worths is not easily determines by some formular. It's still very much dependant on supply and demand. A simple example is Exchange rate. The government also need to regulate it to help exports & increase competitveness and there are many other market factors that will influence it's value.
Happy home searching and wish everyone well.
Even for long term or for investment purposes e.g. rental income, not forgetting in a period of dull growth the depressed market means one's substantial cash becomes illiquid and potentially get stuck for a long time.
Totally agree. I always believe in long term rather than trying to flip quickly. If you plan long term, you will have a better understanding of your financial position in the long run and will take into considerations of many other factors.
I know of some flippers who only look short term to make quick profits and they take pretty high risks in doing so. I wish them good luck.
Saw some comments from postings saying that property price should be <3 times the household annual income. I don't see the logic here. Whatever you buy today - rice, sugar, gold, car, newspaper, etc, how much it cost depends on the demands, raw materials cost, supply, etc. Can you say that gold price should be one-tenth your monthly income?
If the property price does goes down to what some have expected, congratulation to you. You get a good deal. However think about it, if the property price stays low for many years and you plan to sell for some reasons, do you want the property price to goes up? I'm sure you want that to happen so that you can make some profits.
There are always some risks in buying - whether it is property, car, stocks or gold. Even if you married your love one, there is also some risks involved but we still beleive it is worth it. How much risks and how much it should worths is not easily determines by some formular. It's still very much dependant on supply and demand. A simple example is Exchange rate. The government also need to regulate it to help exports & increase competitveness and there are many other market factors that will influence it's value.
Happy home searching and wish everyone well.
at the end of the days, it is to ensure the next generation or young generation like us can afford private homes. otherwise everything beyond reach. flippers may make it for nrxt three generations but not the others. foreigners are the ones that will own majority of private condos whilst locals are stuck with HDBs.
VIPCLUB2004
15-01-09, 14:58
House price should be < 3 times of the household annual income is just a simple guideline to make sure families buy affordable house and not carry huge loan, which makes them work hard just for banks... Market will not always go up & up, if you check the Japan stock & property market, I believe now the price is still lower than 20 years ago :doh: Also apply for gold market, even worse, now the price is just around 1980s level, means if you buy gold 20+ years ago and hold till now, you may not break even in US$ number, while the US$ has been devalued a lot for the past 20+ years, so actually you lose $$....
House price will always up & down, just like stock market but at a much slower pace, so the timing is very important, if we can buy at low, we can retire 5 years early :D For developed countries like Japan, USA & Singapore, most people stay in cities and no much room for the GDP to grow futher, it is not a surely thing that house price will always going up & up, while for China, it is a totally different story, for GDP, can grow 10 to 20 times, and more than half billion people will move to cities....
Singapore per capital GDP reach US$50,000 already, catch up with USA, UK & Japan already (China is just US$3000), how high it can hit in the next 50 years? Don't know what I am talking about :doh:
East Lover
15-01-09, 15:08
House price should be < 3 times of the household annual income is just a simple guideline to make sure families buy affordable house and not carry huge loan, which makes them work hard just for banks...
Heard this formula somewhere also... suppose a working couple has total income of $200K annual => 200k*3 = 600K. So they should buy only $600K range house??? :)
1. How many percentage of local working couples earned around $200K annual or $15-16K per month? top 10%?
2. $600K can only buy HDB EA at Tampines or 5-room flat at Bishan???
3. How many ppl can afford this Esta avg at 1.2 -1.3mil if follow this rule?
Also, the top 5% will not bother to stay at D15 Mid level cond liao.
VIPCLUB2004
15-01-09, 15:20
Heard this formula somewhere also... suppose a working couple has total income of $200K annual => 200k*3 = 600K. So they should buy only $600K range house??? :)
1. How many percentage of local working couples earned around $200K annual or $15-16K per month? top 10%?
2. $600K can only buy HDB EA at Tampines or 5-room flat at Bishan???
3. How many ppl can afford this Esta avg at 1.2 -1.3mil if follow this rule?
Also, the top 5% will not bother to stay at D15 Mid level cond liao.
Yup, that is the reason why the life of so many Singaporeans like us and many Asian is so tough, plus the car is sooooooooooo espensive in Singapore, need pay around 300% import tax :doh: Life is about house installment, car installment, plus some travelling when still have some $$ left, so need to work until 65 or 70 ma :banghead: By the way, how many of you really feel it is good to work until 70 or even more and under big stress? Personally I prefer to retire around 50, half life make $$, half life enjoy, a dream :sleep:
East Lover
15-01-09, 15:22
Yup, that is the reason why the life of so many Singaporeans like us and many Asian is so tough, plus the car is sooooooooooo espensive in Singapore, need pay around 300% import tax :doh: Life is about house installment, car installment, plus some travelling when still have some $$ left, so need to work until 65 or 70 ma :banghead: By the way, how many of you really feel it is good to work until 70 or even more? Personally I prefer to retire around 50, half life make $$, half life enjoy, a dream :sleep:
Your dream will come true when brand new D15 FH Cond drop to $600K or 3 times of your total annual income....:cheers6:
VIPCLUB2004
15-01-09, 15:26
Your dream will come true when brand new D15 FH Cond drop to $600K or 3 times of your total annual income....:cheers6:
Cannot agree more :cheers6:
The <3 is for westen people like in USA, so their life is much easier than us, maybe we apply <4 in Singapore :D
Cannot agree more :cheers6:
The <3 is for westen people like in USA, so their life is much easier than us, maybe we apply <4 in Singapore :D
fully agree... if that's the case, the property market experts didn't see this when they predicted. all desk top analysis only.
and we will see more job cuts....sad.
How long you need to work and when you can retire depends on
1. Your car committment
2. Your housing committment
3. Your children milk power, education
4. Your lifestyle (travel every quarter/year, eat at restuarant/coffeeshop/foodcourts/home, buy luxury goods, etc)
5. Other expenses (hobbies, games, etc)
Item (1) - Do you really need a car? Some people need to drive because of his job. Some want convenient. Some buy because everyone else have one. Can also take a taxi/train/bus to reach the same destination in Singapore.
Item (2) - Do you need to stay in condominium? Why buy a condo if you know you need to work until you're 70yrs old to clear the loan? Why not buy a 5 rooms HDB? It's comfortable enough with 3 bedrooms, living hall and kitchen. Can pay off earlier compare to condo.
Item (3) - Depends on whether you like children. Some of my friends have four because they enjoy playing with them. Well, this also means that they need to have more saving to pay for their educations.
Item (4) & (5) - When times are bad, cut down on these spendings. Go for fewer trips, foodcourt's food are much cheaper, do you need to wear Rolex watch? Casio also can lah.
It's your life. You decide for yourself how you want to live. Plan it & manage it yourself.
VIPCLUB2004
15-01-09, 20:15
How long you need to work and when you can retire depends on
1. Your car committment
2. Your housing committment
3. Your children milk power, education
4. Your lifestyle (travel every quarter/year, eat at restuarant/coffeeshop/foodcourts/home, buy luxury goods, etc)
5. Other expenses (hobbies, games, etc)
Item (1) - Do you really need a car? Some people need to drive because of his job. Some want convenient. Some buy because everyone else have one. Can also take a taxi/train/bus to reach the same destination in Singapore.
Item (2) - Do you need to stay in condominium? Why buy a condo if you know you need to work until you're 70yrs old to clear the loan? Why not buy a 5 rooms HDB? It's comfortable enough with 3 bedrooms, living hall and kitchen. Can pay off earlier compare to condo.
Item (3) - Depends on whether you like children. Some of my friends have four because they enjoy playing with them. Well, this also means that they need to have more saving to pay for their educations.
Item (4) & (5) - When times are bad, cut down on these spendings. Go for fewer trips, foodcourt's food are much cheaper, do you need to wear Rolex watch? Casio also can lah.
It's your life. You decide for yourself how you want to live. Plan it & manage it yourself.
Agree! We should know our "weight" before we do sth, don't just follow others and those advertisement.... Live our life in our own way :)
Just last week I went to view a few units at Esta. All asking ard 910-950 psf. The agent still can yaya say owner won't consider if my offer is below 850 psf, at most they rent it out... Not a good viewing experience at all. And I thought it was a buyer's market.
I really hope the recession really hurt these ppl hoarding the apartments still trying to fleece the general population! Furthermore most bought at 650psf!!
i will wait for the day i can respond to the agent and say "ASK MORE THAN 600PSF I DON'T CONSIDER BUYING!"
POWER TO THE PPL!
.....from an honest joe, working hard to try to find a nice place to live with my family...
JUst becos owners dont wanna match yr price, u hope recession really hurt these ppl........... etc..etc. :scared-4::tsk-tsk:
If I am buying from an owner who owns only 1 place, and he/she is selling to upgrade, I don't mind paying slightly more than market rate because that would show that the previous owner made a good investment decision.
But for owners of multiple properties who are obviously still trying to force middle income Singaporeans to not be able to afford a better home... I am sorry but I don't think they deserve any pity.
If I am buying from an owner who owns only 1 place, and he/she is selling to upgrade, I don't mind paying slightly more than market rate because that would show that the previous owner made a good investment decision.
But for owners of multiple properties who are obviously still trying to force middle income Singaporeans to not be able to afford a better home... I am sorry but I don't think they deserve any pity.
But hey, you are entitled to your opinion. I am just putting in my :2cents: worth and voicing for the average Singaporean:spliff:.
East Lover
15-01-09, 22:31
If I am buying from an owner who owns only 1 place, and he/she is selling to upgrade, I don't mind paying slightly more than market rate because that would show that the previous owner made a good investment decision.
But for owners of multiple properties who are obviously still trying to force middle income Singaporeans to not be able to afford a better home... I am sorry but I don't think they deserve any pity.
Support you!:p
If I am buying from an owner who owns only 1 place, and he/she is selling to upgrade, I don't mind paying slightly more than market rate because that would show that the previous owner made a good investment decision.
But for owners of multiple properties who are obviously still trying to force middle income Singaporeans to not be able to afford a better home... I am sorry but I don't think they deserve any pity.
But hey, you are entitled to your opinion. I am just putting in my :2cents: worth and voicing for the average Singaporean:spliff:.
i agree with Sean G. Never mind. Such owners/sellers can slow slow wait to realise that the sun rises from the east. Its not a matter of who's winning or who's losing more. A transaction that can go through.
If the valuer continues to drop the valuation price, that will be disastrous for the owner/seller. if valuation is done at $400 psf, the owner can keep the property till next cycle, i.e. in next 6 years. buyers may also back out because the fear is how low....similar to share price. remember Citigroup, Lehman....Everything is possible.
East Lover
16-01-09, 10:58
i agree with Sean G. Never mind. Such owners/sellers can slow slow wait to realise that the sun rises from the east. Its not a matter of who's winning or who's losing more. A transaction that can go through.
If the valuer continues to drop the valuation price, that will be disastrous for the owner/seller. if valuation is done at $400 psf, the owner can keep the property till next cycle, i.e. in next 6 years. buyers may also back out because the fear is how low....similar to share price. remember Citigroup, Lehman....Everything is possible.
Maybe a lot of Esta owners are for own stay, so it doesn't matter for how long the next cycle will come...:scared-4:
Anyone can get the rental statistics? How many units of 400 put for rent? what's the rental average?
Figures can tell you how long we can buy our dream house in dream price. :spliff:
After checking the caveats of most of the 3 bdrm and 4 bdrm units (dont' ask how i got them..but its official), the average 1st hand buying price is ard 650 to 700psf.
Hence, I believe my offer of 700-750 psf to the genuine home-owners is a fair offer. BUT!!
After reading the classifieds today, and the property news and the budget predictions, I have decided to wait for ASH SALES.
My new term. FIRE SALES...burn until nothing left but ASH. Then go in and buy ASH sales.... Hopefully in the future a phoenix will come out of the ashes.
To all the bros and sistas in this forum...hope we all get good ASH SALES.
it's just like the stock market...waiting for miracle?
we have seen that in the past crisis and however fail to progress.
are the statistics getting better? financial results, economy indicators, global unemployment rate, more lay offs.......etc
[QUOTE=Sean.G]Just last week I went to view a few units at Esta. All asking ard 910-950 psf. The agent still can yaya say owner won't consider if my offer is below 850 psf, at most they rent it out... Not a good viewing experience at all. And I thought it was a buyer's market.
I really hope the recession really hurt these ppl hoarding the apartments still trying to fleece the general population! Furthermore most bought at 650psf!!
i will wait for the day i can respond to the agent and say "ASK MORE THAN 600PSF I DON'T CONSIDER BUYING!"
POWER TO THE PPL!
.....from an honest joe, working hard to try to find a nice place to live with my family...[/QUOTE
This is so childish. Wealthy pple worked hard to get where they are. They are entltled to invest their wealth. You would also buy multiple properties if you had the money. Singapore is not a communist country, success is not equal. A lot of singareans dont realise it's the hdb market that has distorted the wealth distribution. Which developed nation has 80% of its pple living in public housing. An asset that has little downside also has little upside. Because of this, all the wealth created in the private housing is enjoyed only by the rich and foreigners. Singaporeans want their cake and eat it. They want cheap, but luxurious housing. Where got such thing. Singaporeans are just an unhappy lot with a big dependence attitude.
There are two parties right now ---> the investers who purchase before the crisis and the other one who is looking for cheap sales
Property investment is not just about private. There are also people who made some gains in HDB. It's all about buying at the right spot on the curve -- easily said but difficult to achieve in real life.
You don't have to invest in private condo and live in prime or location that commands higher premium. As a common joe, one can always starts from living with parents, move to hbd, then to EC/condo and gradually purchase more properties as part of investment portfolio.
You may be living in hdb today but if you time it right, you can still make some profit. But then you may be hunting for a condo and expect the price to be lowest (<600psf). Everyone like to buy things cheap and good including myself. If private goes down to 500-600psf like what some have wishes, so are your hdb flat isn't it. Yes, you may get the condo at a bargain but your hdb sale will not fetch good price as well.
Buying a property is not simply about having a roof, you also want to make some profit at the end of the day. For those who said that he is a genuin home buyer looking for a roof. I bet to differ. Be honest to yourself and admit to it.
Those who have invested in 2005 & 2006 are holding on to some good value property. Why do they need to sell to you low or at a lost. These people are the one that are smarter than you and me. Some of them has sold at a profit in 2007 but some still hold on to them. It's up to them to decide what is the right price to sell. If not it can always be rented out althought the rental may not be as good as before. I know because I know these people. Come to worst, they can still afford to pay the installment and keep it as a weekend resort. When the market picks up again, they can still make some profits.
For those who bought in 2007, they goes into the market at the wrong time but their objective is to make some profits --> who don't? Don't blame or curse them. They are also like you and me. They work hard, saved enough to think that it's the right time to invest in property. It's just that they are caught in this downturn or make some poor decision. These people could be young couples with childrens or retires who dependant on making some profits from their investment to live a betterr life. You may say they're greedy but who is not. Aren't you greedy in expecting the lowest price? These unlucky investers could be people around you (friends, relatives, colleagues). You may not know because nobody will go around and tell you about their own investments.
Assuming that you've finally bought your dream condo at the best price this year. Few years later when you need to sell it and he market is worst than now, how do you feel? The buyers will squess you dry my friend.
Spare some thoughts to the unlucky one. That's what I want to say.
hayata1972
18-01-09, 10:56
There are two parties right now ---> the investers who purchase before the crisis and the other one who is looking for cheap sales
Property investment is not just about private. There are also people who made some gains in HDB. It's all about buying at the right spot on the curve -- easily said but difficult to achieve in real life.
You don't have to invest in private condo and live in prime or location that commands higher premium. As a common joe, one can always starts from living with parents, move to hbd, then to EC/condo and gradually purchase more properties as part of investment portfolio.
You may be living in hdb today but if you time it right, you can still make some profit. But then you may be hunting for a condo and expect the price to be lowest (<600psf). Everyone like to buy things cheap and good including myself. If private goes down to 500-600psf like what some have wishes, so are your hdb flat isn't it. Yes, you may get the condo at a bargain but your hdb sale will not fetch good price as well.
Buying a property is not simply about having a roof, you also want to make some profit at the end of the day. For those who said that he is a genuin home buyer looking for a roof. I bet to differ. Be honest to yourself and admit to it.
Those who have invested in 2005 & 2006 are holding on to some good value property. Why do they need to sell to you low or at a lost. These people are the one that are smarter than you and me. Some of them has sold at a profit in 2007 but some still hold on to them. It's up to them to decide what is the right price to sell. If not it can always be rented out althought the rental may not be as good as before. I know because I know these people. Come to worst, they can still afford to pay the installment and keep it as a weekend resort. When the market picks up again, they can still make some profits.
For those who bought in 2007, they goes into the market at the wrong time but their objective is to make some profits --> who don't? Don't blame or curse them. They are also like you and me. They work hard, saved enough to think that it's the right time to invest in property. It's just that they are caught in this downturn or make some poor decision. These people could be young couples with childrens or retires who dependant on making some profits from their investment to live a betterr life. You may say they're greedy but who is not. Aren't you greedy in expecting the lowest price? These unlucky investers could be people around you (friends, relatives, colleagues). You may not know because nobody will go around and tell you about their own investments.
Assuming that you've finally bought your dream condo at the best price this year. Few years later when you need to sell it and he market is worst than now, how do you feel? The buyers will squess you dry my friend.
Spare some thoughts to the unlucky one. That's what I want to say.
Very mature thoughts! Good for you!:p
For those who bought in 2007, they goes into the market at the wrong time but their objective is to make some profits --> who don't? Don't blame or curse them. They are also like you and me. They work hard, saved enough to think that it's the right time to invest in property...
Many of them were misled by all the positive news at that time, no thanks to our media which somehow IMHO tends to embellish negative news for as long as possible. And no thanks to the property and investment gurus who were always interviewed and who always talked up property - "prices will hold", "IR, F1 & YOG put S'pore in good stead" - until it's too obvious to bluff anymore.
unregistered_user
18-01-09, 11:20
Well said.
At least some decency to scavangers screaming for their rights for owners to sell them at 1990s prices! To those - I can only say - why dont instead you sell me your property at 70s prices? HDB, Private Condos, Landed - 70s prices, you willing to sell - I willing to pay.
:tsk-tsk:
There are two parties right now ---> the investers who purchase before the crisis and the other one who is looking for cheap sales
Property investment is not just about private. There are also people who made some gains in HDB. It's all about buying at the right spot on the curve -- easily said but difficult to achieve in real life.
You don't have to invest in private condo and live in prime or location that commands higher premium. As a common joe, one can always starts from living with parents, move to hbd, then to EC/condo and gradually purchase more properties as part of investment portfolio.
You may be living in hdb today but if you time it right, you can still make some profit. But then you may be hunting for a condo and expect the price to be lowest (<600psf). Everyone like to buy things cheap and good including myself. If private goes down to 500-600psf like what some have wishes, so are your hdb flat isn't it. Yes, you may get the condo at a bargain but your hdb sale will not fetch good price as well.
Buying a property is not simply about having a roof, you also want to make some profit at the end of the day. For those who said that he is a genuin home buyer looking for a roof. I bet to differ. Be honest to yourself and admit to it.
Those who have invested in 2005 & 2006 are holding on to some good value property. Why do they need to sell to you low or at a lost. These people are the one that are smarter than you and me. Some of them has sold at a profit in 2007 but some still hold on to them. It's up to them to decide what is the right price to sell. If not it can always be rented out althought the rental may not be as good as before. I know because I know these people. Come to worst, they can still afford to pay the installment and keep it as a weekend resort. When the market picks up again, they can still make some profits.
For those who bought in 2007, they goes into the market at the wrong time but their objective is to make some profits --> who don't? Don't blame or curse them. They are also like you and me. They work hard, saved enough to think that it's the right time to invest in property. It's just that they are caught in this downturn or make some poor decision. These people could be young couples with childrens or retires who dependant on making some profits from their investment to live a betterr life. You may say they're greedy but who is not. Aren't you greedy in expecting the lowest price? These unlucky investers could be people around you (friends, relatives, colleagues). You may not know because nobody will go around and tell you about their own investments.
Assuming that you've finally bought your dream condo at the best price this year. Few years later when you need to sell it and he market is worst than now, how do you feel? The buyers will squess you dry my friend.
Spare some thoughts to the unlucky one. That's what I want to say.
i don own esta, am not a buyer or seller too... read the post here stating some so called serious buyer blaming seller asking high price, curse them, saying prices defnintiely down further mid or end 09....etc.etc.. Well, then don view don buy now lah, buy in mid or end 09 lor. Wats the problem? If u as a buyer feel mkt definitely down further, then buy later. Nobody force u to view those units asking 900+psf mah... Don tell me u don even ask their selling price b4 u went down to view those 900+psf unit? Isnt it wasting everybody's time? If feel future mkt pick up then buy, if feel future down down down, wait till down down down then buy la...
I sincerely congrats those frens/relative tat bought houses during 2005/06, feel happy for them, as they're bought at right time to stay happily or make some profit.......
If I am buying from an owner who owns only 1 place, and he/she is selling to upgrade, I don't mind paying slightly more than market rate because that would show that the previous owner made a good investment decision.
But for owners of multiple properties who are obviously still trying to force middle income Singaporeans to not be able to afford a better home... I am sorry but I don't think they deserve any pity.
But hey, you are entitled to your opinion. I am just putting in my :2cents: worth and voicing for the average Singaporean:spliff:.
Naive.
Do you really care whether the seller is buying for own stay or for investment ?
Just mind your own P&L in the purchase and selecting the apartment of your choice. and grow up plz..
After checking the caveats of most of the 3 bdrm and 4 bdrm units (dont' ask how i got them..but its official), the average 1st hand buying price is ard 650 to 700psf.
Hence, I believe my offer of 700-750 psf to the genuine home-owners is a fair offer. BUT!!
After reading the classifieds today, and the property news and the budget predictions, I have decided to wait for ASH SALES.
My new term. FIRE SALES...burn until nothing left but ASH. Then go in and buy ASH sales.... Hopefully in the future a phoenix will come out of the ashes.
To all the bros and sistas in this forum...hope we all get good ASH SALES.
At current market, 700-750 is a probably a fair offer. but always remember, your so call ash price will only happen when economy is in really pessimistic state. probably, only 20-30% of the current "genuine buyer" can afford at that time...
your so call ash price will only happen when economy is in really pessimistic state. probably, only 20-30% of the current "genuine buyer" can afford at that time...
Pessimistic?
Well, with SM Goh hinting our foreign reserves will be tapped for the very first time in Singapore's history, I think we're indeed in dire straits already. Even the 1998 AFC wasn't bad enough for us to dip into our rainy day savings.
For those who have given serious thought about my ranting post, I salute you. Because you can tell that it is a childish comment, and yet you still put so much thought into replying/commenting on the post. You should have just ignored it.
In any case, this is supposed to be an informative website. But in any interactive website, there is bound to be spam. So I guess for those who have spent time replying and commenting on my post, i am more thankful than angry that you have called me childish.
With regards to my original post, it was meant to be informative, meaning i am sharing with those who read the post that the situation in real life is that sellers are still asking for sky high prices and buyers are already being influenced my the media that this is the recession and everything can be bought at bargain basement prices.
I have since stopped house hunting because I am in the camp that believes sellers will have to come to terms with reality in a few months time.
As for communism, I am not a believer, cos the richest people in the world today come from post communist states (chelsea owner, rich chinaman etc). I do believe in equality. It is bad enough that these investors screw up the luxury market in 9,10 and 11, why come to the hunting ground of the common people (e.g. 15,16,17,18).
If HDB had not put n such restrictions, i bet these ppl will screw up that market also. Eventually all singaporeans will be living in a box, and the rich investors will have all the empty apartments.
There are two parties right now ---> the investers who purchase before the crisis and the other one who is looking for cheap sales
Property investment is not just about private. There are also people who made some gains in HDB. It's all about buying at the right spot on the curve -- easily said but difficult to achieve in real life.
You don't have to invest in private condo and live in prime or location that commands higher premium. As a common joe, one can always starts from living with parents, move to hbd, then to EC/condo and gradually purchase more properties as part of investment portfolio.
You may be living in hdb today but if you time it right, you can still make some profit. But then you may be hunting for a condo and expect the price to be lowest (<600psf). Everyone like to buy things cheap and good including myself. If private goes down to 500-600psf like what some have wishes, so are your hdb flat isn't it. Yes, you may get the condo at a bargain but your hdb sale will not fetch good price as well.
Buying a property is not simply about having a roof, you also want to make some profit at the end of the day. For those who said that he is a genuin home buyer looking for a roof. I bet to differ. Be honest to yourself and admit to it.
Those who have invested in 2005 & 2006 are holding on to some good value property. Why do they need to sell to you low or at a lost. These people are the one that are smarter than you and me. Some of them has sold at a profit in 2007 but some still hold on to them. It's up to them to decide what is the right price to sell. If not it can always be rented out althought the rental may not be as good as before. I know because I know these people. Come to worst, they can still afford to pay the installment and keep it as a weekend resort. When the market picks up again, they can still make some profits.
For those who bought in 2007, they goes into the market at the wrong time but their objective is to make some profits --> who don't? Don't blame or curse them. They are also like you and me. They work hard, saved enough to think that it's the right time to invest in property. It's just that they are caught in this downturn or make some poor decision. These people could be young couples with childrens or retires who dependant on making some profits from their investment to live a betterr life. You may say they're greedy but who is not. Aren't you greedy in expecting the lowest price? These unlucky investers could be people around you (friends, relatives, colleagues). You may not know because nobody will go around and tell you about their own investments.
Assuming that you've finally bought your dream condo at the best price this year. Few years later when you need to sell it and he market is worst than now, how do you feel? The buyers will squess you dry my friend.
Spare some thoughts to the unlucky one. That's what I want to say.
Double Thumbs Up for YOU!!!!
:)
Pet
Pessimistic?
Well, with SM Goh hinting our foreign reserves will be tapped for the very first time in Singapore's history, I think we're indeed in dire straits already. Even the 1998 AFC wasn't bad enough for us to dip into our rainy day savings.
Think the investment losses by the temasek holding & town council does have a part to play in justifying why the government may need to touch the nation reserves.
:simmering:
Pet
VIPCLUB2004
19-01-09, 08:09
Pessimistic?
Well, with SM Goh hinting our foreign reserves will be tapped for the very first time in Singapore's history, I think we're indeed in dire straits already. Even the 1998 AFC wasn't bad enough for us to dip into our rainy day savings.
People are still quite "optimistic", means the worst time still not arrive yet, like when China stock market drop 20% from 6100 points to 5000, many people say it is good time to buy, then when it drop another 20% and hit 4000, many believe that is is the worst case, and many people still buy in, but when it drop another 20% plus to hit 3000 points, most people believe that is is really the worst time, but few people want to buy in, finally when it hit 1600 which is the really worst case, almost nobody care about the market any more and few want to buy in.... Now the Singapore property market is like in between 3000 to 4000 points, that why still quite some people like us still observe the market carefully with interests and are eager to buy, the worst time will come when very few people or nobody care about the market and have the desire to buy :D
East Lover
19-01-09, 10:36
Saw one classified selling One Amber at $799psf for a few weeks already... One Amber launch price is much higher than Esta, so will Esta going to be at $700psf soon? :)
Saw one classified selling One Amber at $799psf for a few weeks already... One Amber launch price is much higher than Esta, so will Esta going to be at $700psf soon? :)
Saw that ad too. Do you know which unit is that?
I heard from an agent that unit #0x-02 was transacted at 761psf, and another #xx-02 at 825psf.
East Lover
19-01-09, 16:07
Saw that ad too. Do you know which unit is that?
I heard from an agent that unit #0x-02 was transacted at 761psf, and another #xx-02 at 825psf.
In fact, I called that agent. Alamak, very yah yah type, so not bother to ask further info about that unit and price trend. That young boy still sounded as proud as 2007 time!!!
Anyways things are accelerating. Just head from a friend that Bluwaters - in a bid to rush TOP - owners now are frantically trying to apply for loan to cover DPS. one owner already kena rejected, and will be looking to lelong below buy price
It's cute how the bank topups are spread geographically - start at sentosa, spread to central, hopped over east coast, went to pasir ris. prob hop back to east coast soon
East Lover
19-01-09, 16:28
Price sqft psf Date
1,191,800 1,475 808 Jan-09
1,209,500 1,475 820 Jan-09
1,150,000 1,561 737 Dec-08
1,116,050 1,313 850 Nov-08
1,400,000 1,593 879 Nov-08
1,175,160 1,399 840 Nov-08
1,099,800 1,410 780 Nov-08
-------
have two 7XX psf, and one 808psf in Jan 09 liao
Saw that ad too. Do you know which unit is that?
I heard from an agent that unit #0x-02 was transacted at 761psf, and another #xx-02 at 825psf.
One Amber unit 14-08, 121 sq m was sold for $797/psf or $1.038m. I think the low price is because the unit is located on the unauspicious 14th floor.
Around the same time, The Esta unit #02-16 (second floor), 137 sq m was sold for $820 psf or 1.2095m.
One Amber unit 14-08, 121 sq m was sold for $797/psf or $1.038m. I think the low price is because the unit is located on the unauspicious 14th floor.
Around the same time, The Esta unit #02-16 (second floor), 137 sq m was sold for $820 psf or 1.2095m.
For this One Amber unit is there a possibility that this unit facing is undesirable? From the site & Flr plan, seems to me the master bedrm & toilet, kitchen & yard area will be baking in the afternoon possibly remain so till early nite time...
East Lover,
The figures for December and Jan are late caveats, i.e. those who bought in 2006 using DPS. Only now then the caveats are logged in as they are first hand owners.
So far no new property transactions for Esta in December 08 or Jan 09.
A unit at #1x-17 rented out at 4,500per month.
Any speculations on whether prices at Esta will hold up? Agents have slowly reduced the calling price for One Amber, but prices at Esta seems to be holding up.
i must say kudos to those sellers who managed to dispose of the undesirable units during this time. they are way ahead of the "investors" pack......
East Lover
20-01-09, 08:42
East Lover,
The figures for December and Jan are late caveats, i.e. those who bought in 2006 using DPS. Only now then the caveats are logged in as they are first hand owners.
So far no new property transactions for Esta in December 08 or Jan 09.
A unit at #1x-17 rented out at 4,500per month.
Any speculations on whether prices at Esta will hold up? Agents have slowly reduced the calling price for One Amber, but prices at Esta seems to be holding up.
Price sqft psf Date
1,191,800 1,475 808 Jan-09
1,209,500 1,475 820 Jan-09
1,150,000 1,561 737 Dec-08
1,116,050 1,313 850 Nov-08
1,400,000 1,593 879 Nov-08
1,175,160 1,399 840 Nov-08
1,099,800 1,410 780 Nov-08
Can the Esta launch price be so high? 737 psf sounds alright, but 808, 820 psf sounds very high on 2005, 06 leh. I thought the average price in Esta is 650-700 range? not more than 700 psf during 2006?
By the way, do you have the rental figure in Esta? that determine Esta's holding power...
Can the Esta launch price be so high? 737 psf sounds alright, but 808, 820 psf sounds very high on 2005, 06 leh. I thought the average price in Esta is 650-700 range? not more than 700 psf during 2006?
By the way, do you have the rental figure in Esta? that determine Esta's holding power...
Price sqft psf Date
1,191,800 1,475 808 Jan-09 #0X-16
1,209,500 1,475 820 Jan-09 #0X-16
1,150,000 1,561 737 Dec-08 #0X-10
1,116,050 1,313 850 Nov-08 #0X-18
1,400,000 1,593 879 Nov-08 #1X-17
1,175,160 1,399 840 Nov-08 #1X-09
1,099,800 1,410 780 Nov-08 #0X-09
East Lover
20-01-09, 09:27
Price sqft psf Date
1,191,800 1,475 808 Jan-09 #0X-16
1,209,500 1,475 820 Jan-09 #0X-16
1,150,000 1,561 737 Dec-08 #0X-10
1,116,050 1,313 850 Nov-08 #0X-18
1,400,000 1,593 879 Nov-08 #1X-17
1,175,160 1,399 840 Nov-08 #1X-09
1,099,800 1,410 780 Nov-08 #0X-09
Thanks! BTW are they launch price or from subsale?
Thanks! BTW are they launch price or from subsale?
Sub sale. Except 737psf. Can be either late caveat or fire sale
Just wondering. Will FEO's upcoming Silversea block Sea View and Esta's sea view in the future?
Can the Esta launch price be so high? 737 psf sounds alright, but 808, 820 psf sounds very high on 2005, 06 leh. I thought the average price in Esta is 650-700 range? not more than 700 psf during 2006?
By the way, do you have the rental figure in Esta? that determine Esta's holding power...
Well, 808 and 820 psf are based on transactions published by URA ... Unless you doubt the accuracy of government figures?
Just wondering. Will FEO's upcoming Silversea block Sea View and Esta's sea view in the future?
Esta - where got view? The original buyers would not have been so stupid to pay a premium for a view when the condo had 3 rows of other condos between it and the sea!
Sub sale. Except 737psf. Can be either late caveat or fire sale
I heard the 737psf is a re-finance case. Bank lodged the caveat after refinancing the first owner.
Problem is I couldn't find another 737psf in my old list. Could it be that the bank has revised downward (upward?) the value of the unit?
East Lover
20-01-09, 13:15
Well, 808 and 820 psf are based on transactions published by URA ... Unless you doubt the accuracy of government figures?
Not the accuracy, just doubt such high price could not be first hand launch price as Sean.G said.
Any way, Joe has confirmed that these are all from sub sales. Doubt cleared.
VIPCLUB2004
20-01-09, 14:35
初步数据显示，新加坡经济在截至12月的三个月内萎缩了12.5%，是1976年政府开始公布季节性调整数据以来的最差数据。
新加坡总理李显龙上周表示，政府将再次调低经济增长预期值。由于全球经济放缓加速，去年政府七次调低了经济预期值。目前政府预计2009年经济增长率在萎缩2%到增长1%之间。
渣打银行(Standard Chartered) 预计新加坡经济在2009年将下滑2.5%，这将是依赖贸易的新加坡在1965年独立以来的最差表现，比2001年经济萎缩2.4%还要差。
we are on fire and will feel the pain soon...
The transactions in Jan are sub-sales. But those in Nov and Dec 08 are first hand owners from database. Maybe the first owner did not launch a caveat and resold before the DPS kicked in.
Looks like Esta is holding on stronger than One Amber, even though market sentiment is that One Amber is a better development than Esta. Maybe cos amber got more facilities and more units.
Rentals at Esta range from 3.5k for 3 rm to 4.5k for 4 rm. But i wonder how many tenants we will see defaulting on their tenancy agreements.
I tink better to adopt a wait an see attitude.
East Lover
21-01-09, 08:51
The transactions in Jan are sub-sales. But those in Nov and Dec 08 are first hand owners from database. Maybe the first owner did not launch a caveat and resold before the DPS kicked in.
Looks like Esta is holding on stronger than One Amber, even though market sentiment is that One Amber is a better development than Esta. Maybe cos amber got more facilities and more units.
Rentals at Esta range from 3.5k for 3 rm to 4.5k for 4 rm. But i wonder how many tenants we will see defaulting on their tenancy agreements.
I tink better to adopt a wait an see attitude.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=42765&postcount=40
With analysts expecting some 200,000 foreigners to depart Singapore this year, not only will those apartments coming online in 09 like One Amber/Esta etc face even more difficulty. On property guru alone, for the Esta there are already over 100 listings for rentals.
Thus my previous price watch can be thrown out of the door. I expect at least a further 25% downwards revision in psf values.
Assuming there are 50 units (half of the over 100 listing) for rentals, that means 1/8 of the owners are actually using/hoping the rental to cover their morgage. When more and more foreigners leaving SG, the rental price may drop to 2006 level soon also.
If it drops to 2/2.5k for 3 rm & 3/3.5k for 4 rm, that will be a great pressure on those owners, Esta holding power will drop in the very near future.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=41897&postcount=1113
If the loan is $800K with 3% interest rate for 30yrs, the mthly installment is about $3400. Interest is about $2000 and $1400 for principal repayment. You just need to top up $400 more in cash. Not as good as last year but but good enough to sustain the installment. Not bad lah.
Based on PN's calculation, the mthly installement is $3400 for $800K loan (which i believe most of those investers do take up such a big loan), + mthly maintenance + property tax (regardless vacant or not), the min cost is $4K per mth...
Anyway, for those first-hand own-stay owners, it doesn't matter the population size of S'pore to you. :sleep: So enjoy your new home. it's really a good buy. congratulations!
The transactions in Jan are sub-sales. But those in Nov and Dec 08 are first hand owners from database. Maybe the first owner did not launch a caveat and resold before the DPS kicked in.
Looks like Esta is holding on stronger than One Amber, even though market sentiment is that One Amber is a better development than Esta. Maybe cos amber got more facilities and more units.
Rentals at Esta range from 3.5k for 3 rm to 4.5k for 4 rm. But i wonder how many tenants we will see defaulting on their tenancy agreements.
I tink better to adopt a wait an see attitude.
So how to protect landlords? What if tenants just run? Is the deposit enough?
East Lover
21-01-09, 09:14
Economy may shrink by 5%
SINGAPORE slashed its economic growth forecast for 2009 for the second time in just three weeks, predicting the economy will suffer its first contraction in eight years as it grapples with a global economic downturn.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_328894.html
East Lover
21-01-09, 10:08
So how to protect landlords? What if tenants just run? Is the deposit enough?
Normally tenants will pay one mth deposite, and the rental should be paid on the beginning of each month, so landload won't lost much on the rental for that mth.
The actual problem is that: you may not be able to find the same price for the next tenants, as more and more units are available, less and less tenants exist, supply up and demand down, that's why rental market will drop to 2006 level soon.
By then, some owners may not have enough cash to top up the gap between rental and mth instalment, so their so called 'strong' holding power will be no longer valid, then fire sales will start... That's why ppl here are saying that "Esta sub sales market will drop to 2006 level soon also." :o
In 6 to 9 mths, if these potential buyers are still have confidence and 'buying power', then the price may stay at 2006 level.
However, if economic has no recover signs by Q3 09 as ppl expected, even these potential buyers dear not to catch the falling balls, then the price may be drop to 2004 level. At that time, i'm afraid only bank have to buy liao...
So how to protect landlords? What if tenants just run? Is the deposit enough?
Don't be silly. Condo tenants don't run away unless they are low rung foreigners (i.e. low pay white collar workers) and don't intend to return to Singapore. In Singapore, there's a "database" on every resident including foreigners and PRs. A person with an undesireable track record would find it difficult to function in Singapore.
Tenants leaving with debt unsettled
Crisis takes its toll on rental market
By Jessica Cheam
THE economic crisis is posing a new problem for landlords: tenants who break leases or even skip town without notice, leaving debts in their wake.
Property agencies told The Straits Times that increasing numbers of tenants, mostly foreign, are cutting short their leases on anything from high-end luxury apartments to Housing Board flats.
Advice on how to break leases is also making the rounds on some online expatriate forums such as www.expatsingapore.com, (http://www.expatsingapore.com,/) as the financial crisis takes its toll on a previously booming rental market and expats get sent back home.
The discussions on these sites range from how to renegotiate with landlords to how to find replacement tenants and even how to make a run for it.
C&H Realty managing director Albert Lu put the number of cases at about 5 to 10 per cent out of 100 rental agreements in the last few months of 2008 - compared with 'a rare few' in 2007.
ERA Asia Pacific associate director Eugene Lim said that while there were no tenants breaking leases in 2007, the firm has seen 10 corporate tenants struggle with their rent recently.
These companies, which often lease high-end apartments in prime districts 9, 10 and 11, have had to look for replacement tenants and make up the difference in rents after cutting staff numbers.
Rents themselves have also started to fall. While the official index dipped just 0.9 per cent in the third quarter following an increase of 2.5 per cent in the April-July period, agents say rents have fallen as much as 20 per cent in some areas.
PropNex agent Michael Tan, 37, who specialises in leasing prime district apartments, cited units at Cosmopolitan in River Valley. They used to go for $8,500 for a 1,300 sq ft three-bedroom home but levels have dropped about 24 per cent to $6,500 per month.
Cost-cutting measures and retrenchments mean there are fewer expats renting pricey flats, said Mr Tan.
Although agents are seeing the effects of the crisis more severely in the high-end rental market, even HDB landlords have not been spared.
Dennis Wee property agent Sally Tan told The Straits Times that two Indian nationals had skipped town without paying the last month's rent. This was six months after they signed a one-year contract to rent a three-room flat in Yishun for $1,800.
Ms Tan said the two tenants, who were working in a foreign bank's IT department, told her by SMS that they were leaving for good and left the key in the flat's letterbox.
When she rushed to the flat, all their belongings were gone and a day later, their telephone lines were terminated.
'It poses a lot of problems for agents and landlords. We also can't get the same level of rent,' she said. The same flat is now being rented for $1,600 a month.
The director of Dennis Wee Properties, Mr Chris Koh, said landlords of such tenants have little recourse as tracing them in their home country would be too costly.
Landlords can cut their losses by keeping the deposit paid by the tenant and finding a replacement as soon as possible.
If the tenant can be located, landlords can take legal action at the Small Claims Tribunal, said Mr Koh.
Breaking lease agreements does not always have to be nasty, however, said HSR Property Group executive director Eric Cheng.
Most rental contracts with foreigners have a 'diplomatic clause' which states that tenants can break the lease after a year if they have a valid reason, such as returning to their home country.
'Tenants in this case should give their landlords two months' notice so a replacement can be found,' said Mr Cheng. Even if one year is not up, tenants can still negotiate with landlords so a mutually beneficial arrangement can be sorted out, he added.
Meanwhile, agency bosses expect the situation to get worse in the next six months to a year as firms continue to cut costs and retrench staff.
The recent flood of units onto the rental market from en bloc projects where developers have postponed redevelopment, such as Fairways in Telok Blangah or Grangeford at Leonie Hill, could also contribute to the softening of the rental scene, they added.
As ERA's Mr Lim put it: 'I would say we're only seeing the beginning
VIPCLUB2004
21-01-09, 12:16
Go to the gov web to check your income and see what is your position % now, seem average household income for top 10% is more than S$20,000 per month, feel happy if you are in this group and go to buy The Esta :D
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/papers/people/op-s15.pdf
VIPCLUB2004
21-01-09, 13:55
Go to the gov web to check your income and see what is your position % now, seem average household income for top 10% is more than S$20,000 per month, feel happy if you are in this group and go to buy The Esta :D
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/papers/people/op-s15.pdf
Average income for top 20% is S$12910/mth and for top 10% is S$23020/mth, mine is far away behind :doh:
East Lover
21-01-09, 13:56
Go to the gov web to check your income and see what is your position % now, seem average household income for top 10% is more than S$20,000 per month, feel happy if you are in this group and go to buy The Esta :D
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/papers/people/op-s15.pdf
According to your >3 theory, 20K x 13mth = 260K, x 3 = 900K
These top 10% ppl can only afford to buy Esta when drop to 2006 level... :simmering:
Average income for top 20% is S$12910/mth and for top 10% is S$23020/mth, mine is far away behind :doh:
$23,020 is for household income. On a per head basis, it's $8,700 for the top 10%.
$23,020 is for household income. On a per head basis, it's $8,700 for the top 10%.
If I work at a factory earning, $1200, my husband as security guard earning $1500, my 5 grown-up children earning average of $1800 per month, then my total household income is almost $12000. Top 20% although we live in 4-room HDB flat (bought when long time ago). Is it count like that.
If my husband a manager earning $10,000 a month and I housewife and children still studying, living in a condo like Esta, I am below the above household.
Is it like that?
VIPCLUB2004
21-01-09, 15:35
$23,020 is for household income. On a per head basis, it's $8,700 for the top 10%.
Yes, per head income is more meaningful, so how many of us can make per head income of S$8,700/mth? :scared-4:
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0812/gallery.worst_markets.fortune/index.html?cnn=yes
From CNN money, predicts that popular USA real estate will drop another 20% more in 2009, and continue to drop a few % in 2010, and I believe the SG case is quite close to the USA case.... :D
East Lover
21-01-09, 15:54
$23,020 is for household income. On a per head basis, it's $8,700 for the top 10%.
no lah. only 2 working couple work, so should be 11-12K per mth per head income mah... you can't count your kids right? they are the consummer, not bread winner.
East Lover
21-01-09, 16:02
Yes, per head income is more meaningful, so how many of us can make per head income of S$8,700/mth? :scared-4:
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0812/gallery.worst_markets.fortune/index.html?cnn=yes
From CNN money, predicts that popular USA real estate will drop another 20% more in 2009, and continue to drop a few % in 2010, and I believe the SG case is quite close to the USA case.... :D
See table 5, average mthly income per household member, top 10% is $8700, but top 20% is $3900! so big cap!
assuming standard family size - 2 working adult, 2 kids still in scool, top 10% is 8700 x 4 =$32000, while top 20% is 3900x4 = $15600??!
very confused now...
East Lover
21-01-09, 16:18
$23,020 is for household income. On a per head basis, it's $8,700 for the top 10%.
According to table 5, top 10% is $8700 mthly from work per household member.
Household income from work per household member: the household income from work divided by the total members in the householde. e.g. if only one person of a household of 4 is working, his income is divided by 4 to derive the average income per household member.
$8700 x 4 = $34800.
That means either the top 10% super daddy can earn $35K mthly, or super daddy and mummy earn $17K -$18K mthly, in order to stay on the top!
How much is our super civil servant salary range???
If I work at a factory earning, $1200, my husband as security guard earning $1500, my 5 grown-up children earning average of $1800 per month, then my total household income is almost $12000. Top 20% although we live in 4-room HDB flat (bought when long time ago). Is it count like that.
If my husband a manager earning $10,000 a month and I housewife and children still studying, living in a condo like Esta, I am below the above household.
Is it like that?
hahahaa......all these conversations are very funny....i am having a good laugh......
Can I rewind to Miow's comment con defaulting tenants. I think you are very naive to think that all expats that come to Singapore are rich.
Do you see many "ang mohs" in your HDB neighbourhood? The fact is there are many blue collar ang mohs coming to work in Singapore now. They are from eastern european countries like slovakia, ukraine etc. Even many Brits, Americans, Australians, French, Germans, you name it are not as well off as before.
Hence, during the current rental market slide, if they can rent an apt in orchard road for 4.5K, why would they pay the same for a unit at Esta? So only those not so rich expats will rent at D15 & D16. With 200,000 being sent back, do you think its the higher income expats who will be affected or the lower income expats?
Sadly, Singapore does not protect landlords, in fact there is no system in the world that protects landlords. So for the landlords out there today, they must hope and pray HARD, that their tenant in doing well in this downturn. if not, all they can do is :banghead:
According to table 5, top 10% is $8700 mthly from work per household member.
Household income from work per household member: the household income from work divided by the total members in the householde. e.g. if only one person of a household of 4 is working, his income is divided by 4 to derive the average income per household member.
$8700 x 4 = $34800.
That means either the top 10% super daddy can earn $35K mthly, or super daddy and mummy earn $17K -$18K mthly, in order to stay on the top!
How much is our super civil servant salary range???
Actually, they should further reflect what the difference between the upper half of the top 10% is earning.
40-50k monthly is earn by a lot of people.. my parents were earning that much before they retire.
However, I believe they are in the bottom of the 10%..
They are a lot more earning $100k per month.. It's simply amazing ..ain't it...
VIPCLUB2004
22-01-09, 07:33
Actually, they should further reflect what the difference between the upper half of the top 10% is earning.
40-50k monthly is earn by a lot of people.. my parents were earning that much before they retire.
However, I believe they are in the bottom of the 10%..
They are a lot more earning $100k per month.. It's simply amazing ..ain't it...
20/80 rule (Maybe 10/90) should be true in Singapore, means top 20% families have 80% of the total wealth while the rest 80% only have 20% of the total wealth, if in that case, top 5% may have more than 50% of the total wealth.... :scared-1:
20/80 rule (Maybe 10/90) should be true in Singapore, means top 20% families have 80% of the total wealth while the rest 80% only have 20% of the total wealth, if in that case, top 5% may have more than 50% of the total wealth.... :scared-1:
Probably 5/95 or 10/90.
Singapore has one of the highest income gap amongst developed nations.
VIPCLUB2004
22-01-09, 09:02
由于全球经济突告恶化，我国经济表现也急转直下，政府昨天又再调低今年全年的经济增长预测，从三个星期前预测的负2％（萎缩2％）至正1％增长，调低到负2％至负5％，显示我国有可能陷入40多年来（自1965年独立以来）最糟的经济衰退期。(ZaoBao)
Will the property market go to the 1998 level? :confused: :D
由于全球经济突告恶化，我国经济表现也急转直下，政府昨天又再调低今年全年的经济增长预测，从三个星期前预测的负2％（萎缩2％）至正1％增长，调低到负2％至负5％，显示我国有可能陷入40多年来（自1965年独立以来）最糟的经济衰退期。(ZaoBao)
Will the property market go to the 1998 level? :confused: :D
Quite likely :beats-me-man:
VIPCLUB2004
22-01-09, 12:18
The whole world economy is the big Ponzi scheme, worse than some MLM, because almost everybody is in this "scheme", when economy slow down or negative growth, all problems occur.... :banghead:
Are we in the famous Ponzi scheme ?? :D
Can I rewind to Miow's comment con defaulting tenants. I think you are very naive to think that all expats that come to Singapore are rich.
Do you see many "ang mohs" in your HDB neighbourhood? The fact is there are many blue collar ang mohs coming to work in Singapore now. They are from eastern european countries like slovakia, ukraine etc. Even many Brits, Americans, Australians, French, Germans, you name it are not as well off as before.
Hence, during the current rental market slide, if they can rent an apt in orchard road for 4.5K, why would they pay the same for a unit at Esta? So only those not so rich expats will rent at D15 & D16. With 200,000 being sent back, do you think its the higher income expats who will be affected or the lower income expats?
Sadly, Singapore does not protect landlords, in fact there is no system in the world that protects landlords. So for the landlords out there today, they must hope and pray HARD, that their tenant in doing well in this downturn. if not, all they can do is :banghead:
I wouldn't feel sorry for landlords. My last landlord increased my rent by 70% in one shot during the good times. In 2 years, the rent doubled. The aircons in the condo I rented were more than 10 years old and having a lot of problems, but the landlord refused to change them because there was enough demand despite the state of the apartment. Singapore also doesn't protect tenants when landlords raise rents indiscriminantly in the name of prevailing market prices. Landlords' protection is the 2 months' deposit.
Let's face it. Everyone has to take a hit in a recession. Recessions are bad for everyone. Like someone said - the economy is a ponzi scheme?
VIPCLUB2004
22-01-09, 15:13
The whole world economy is the big Ponzi scheme, worse than some MLM, because almost everybody is in this "scheme", when economy slow down or negative growth, all problems occur.... :banghead:
Are we in the famous Ponzi scheme ?? :D
Why I say the economy like ponzi scheme or pyramid scheme is because there is a limit or saturation level, it is sure that no way the economy can grow by 5% or 10% forever, and also, only a few % of people earn most of the $$$, and the structure of any company or organization is exactly the "pyramid" :D Just take is as a joke, don't be too serious :tsk-tsk: Enjoy the Chinese New Year!
I wouldn't feel sorry for landlords. My last landlord increased my rent by 70% in one shot during the good times. In 2 years, the rent doubled. The aircons in the condo I rented were more than 10 years old and having a lot of problems, but the landlord refused to change them because there was enough demand despite the state of the apartment. Singapore also doesn't protect tenants when landlords raise rents indiscriminantly in the name of prevailing market prices. Landlords' protection is the 2 months' deposit.
Let's face it. Everyone has to take a hit in a recession. Recessions are bad for everyone. Like someone said - the economy is a ponzi scheme?
singapore don't protect tenants neither it protect the landlord.
I wouldn't feel sorry for landlords. My last landlord increased my rent by 70% in one shot during the good times. In 2 years, the rent doubled. The aircons in the condo I rented were more than 10 years old and having a lot of problems, but the landlord refused to change them because there was enough demand despite the state of the apartment. Singapore also doesn't protect tenants when landlords raise rents indiscriminantly in the name of prevailing market prices. Landlords' protection is the 2 months' deposit.
Let's face it. Everyone has to take a hit in a recession. Recessions are bad for everyone. Like someone said - the economy is a ponzi scheme?
More tenants are quitting without notice http://www3.nationproperty.com.sg/npp2/images/spacer.gif
22 Jan
The number of ‘break-lease’ cases among foreign tenants is creeping up in the wake of the economic crisis. Some expatriates who have been sent home even abandoned the rented premise without paying the rents in arrears, nor serving any notice stipulated in the tenancy agreement.
Many tenants who managed to escape the layoff are trying to renegotiate the current rents with the landlords; while some are desperately seeking replacement tenants.
In tandem with the increasing number of ‘break-lease’ incidents, rental prices have also started to slide. The official rental index, recently released by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), shows a slight drop of 0.9% in the third quarter of 2008.
For example, units at Cosmopolitan in River Valley which used to go for $8,500 for a 1,300 sq ft three-bedroom home are now going for $6,500 per month. By percentage, the rent fall is more than 20%.
In fact, the ‘break-lease’ phenomenon is not peculiar only to the high-end rental market, though the effect is more pronounced there. HDB landlords are not spared the problem either.
======================
tenants don't look very nice and honorable too.
East Lover
23-01-09, 10:56
I refer to the "New Budget Measures" thread discussion.
The government will also allow a one-year extension of the project completion period for private residential projects.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=6965
What's the overall implication for rental market? developers choose not to sell but rent out the units, increase the rental supply, then reduce the rental price, eventually reduce the holding power of existing (Esta) owners?:ashamed1:
East Lover
23-01-09, 16:40
祝大家
年年圆满如意，
月月事事顺心，
日日喜悦无忧，
时时高兴欢喜，
刻刻充满朝气！
牛年买到好房子!!!:p
I refer to the "New Budget Measures" thread discussion.
The government will also allow a one-year extension of the project completion period for private residential projects.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=6965
What's the overall implication for rental market? developers choose not to sell but rent out the units, increase the rental supply, then reduce the rental price, eventually reduce the holding power of existing (Esta) owners?:ashamed1:
From my understanding, it means for landbank that has been granted approval for development (not yet launched) with a stipulated completion deadline, the developer can now delay the completion date by one year and hence, needs not launch the project so soon. This will ease the risk on the developer. The market supply of new residential properties will be reduced (my guess in 2011-12), thus allowing demand to catch with ample supply to come onstream in 2009 and 2010, and thus cushioning property values.
The units that can be rented are unsold units in existing projects. Most of these projects were launched in 2H07 and beginning 2008 and I think their TOP dates are in end-2010 and 2011. The projects that are completing in 2009 and 2010 are fully sold as they were launched in 2006 and 1H07 before the economic downturn.
If the economy still hasn't recovered by end-2010 and 2011, we will be in serious trouble, considering the two IRs would be in full swing.
I think the government has already calculated the figures. The budget initiatives are to cushion property values and provide relief to the property developers.
Cushioning developers? Then buyers leh? Have to pay still-expensive prices just to attain their condo dream? Why can't govt allow market forces to regulate property prices? This shows the hypocrisy of govt: on one hand they assured S'poreans that more will have chance to stay condo; on the other hand, they rigged the property market so that prices stay high.
Why?
Cos it is in govt's interest as well. They still have a lot of land not sold yet. They just waiting for economy to recover so that they can milk and suck more suckers dry.
If economy doesn't recover by 2010 2011 so what? Govt will just extend the cushioning for few more years lor. The entire fxxking game is rigged.
unregistered_user
23-01-09, 18:55
Not going to profit scavangers like you? ;)
If economy doesn't recover by 2010 2011 so what? Govt will just extend the cushioning for few more years lor. The entire fxxking game is rigged.
Think about this. The price is already down by 30%. How much more do you think it should goes down to? Is the launch price your ideal or lower than launch price? You hoping for 70’s or 90’s price?
If property price plunge down to 300-500psf for mass and midrange market, and 1000+psf for high end, what will happen? Imagine the psf is less than half of the original price.
Every single home owner who has purchased a condo, regardless of whether he buys to stay or speculate will suffer. How the bank will react? If bank ask for top up, how many home owner (genuine and speculator) can afford to do this? How many house will be auctioned if this happen? How many friends/relatives of yours will be affected?
I’m quite disappointed to see so many posts here talking about affordability for condo but not facing the reality and look at the impact as a whole. Selfishness is the key word here. People only think about themselves. Fair enough as it’s normal human behavior but there is a limit to it.
Are you sure you can’t afford a condo with today’s property price? A few months back, some mentioned that if the price down from high to 700-800psf, he will buy. What does this tell you? It’s means that they can afford it. Today, they want to wait until the price goes down to 500-600psf. When it is at 500psf, he wants it to be 400psf. It’s obvious isn’t it? 700psf or 500psf is not the issue. Selfishness and greed rule an individual in today’s world. There are many affordable condos in suburb area with nice living environment. What’s wrong with living there? If you buy one condo in prime district, you can 2 or more in the suburb.
If you need to live in orchard road condo or other prime areas, work hard for it. Why want to live a better life at the expense of others? Is this morally right? What happened to 20years of education?
Government has to come in and help in these circumstances. Either you try to stabilize it or you will see another Singapore version of sub-prime crisis happening in. Is this what you wished for?
BTW, Chinese New Year is just around the corner. I wish everyone a prosperous and happy OX year. Take a break from property watch (me too). Hopefully we will see a rapid recovery of economy as a whole.
unregistered_user
23-01-09, 19:53
Thats the Aladhin, Sean G , J Dog and other scavangers for you.
You can see them in almost every other thread sprouting their 'expert opinion' - and trying to buy a $1 condo. Nothing wrong with trying to get a good deal, but sometimes, it irks you to see mercenary greed foaming thru their mouth - as if the whole world owes them a living. If you want a good life - work hard for it!
Think about this. The price is already down by 30%. How much more do you think it should goes down to? Is the launch price your ideal or lower than launch price? You hoping for 70’s or 90’s price?
If property price plunge down to 300-500psf for mass and midrange market, and 1000+psf for high end, what will happen? Imagine the psf is less than half of the original price.
Every single home owner who has purchased a condo, regardless of whether he buys to stay or speculate will suffer. How the bank will react? If bank ask for top up, how many home owner (genuine and speculator) can afford to do this? How many house will be auctioned if this happen? How many friends/relatives of yours will be affected?
I’m quite disappointed to see so many posts here talking about affordability for condo but not facing the reality and look at the impact as a whole. Selfishness is the key word here. People only think about themselves. Fair enough as it’s normal human behavior but there is a limit to it.
Are you sure you can’t afford a condo with today’s property price? A few months back, some mentioned that if the price down from high to 700-800psf, he will buy. What does this tell you? It’s means that they can afford it. Today, they want to wait until the price goes down to 500-600psf. When it is at 500psf, he wants it to be 400psf. It’s obvious isn’t it? 700psf or 500psf is not the issue. Selfishness and greed rule an individual in today’s world. There are many affordable condos in suburb area with nice living environment. What’s wrong with living there? If you buy one condo in prime district, you can 2 or more in the suburb.
If you need to live in orchard road condo or other prime areas, work hard for it. Why want to live a better life at the expense of others? Is this morally right? What happened to 20years of education?
Government has to come in and help in these circumstances. Either you try to stabilize it or you will see another Singapore version of sub-prime crisis happening in. Is this what you wished for?
BTW, Chinese New Year is just around the corner. I wish everyone a prosperous and happy OX year. Take a break from property watch (me too). Hopefully we will see a rapid recovery of economy as a whole.
Seems like people are showing the most interest in this Esta thread, already 1200+ posts. :D
Happy Chinese New Year to all Esta owners & people camping in this thread.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.