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yktan
29-01-07, 02:19
Stay tuned!!!:D :D :D

$$$$$$$$$$$$$
30-01-07, 01:36
Stay tuned!!!:D :D :D

At Killiney Road, St. Thomas Walk and Devonshire Road.

191 units

36 floors

4 storey carpark like HDB estate

They are going to launch higher price than St Thomas Suites $$$$$$$$$$$

ahlahdin
11-07-07, 17:27
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/8642/devonshirea06121gj2.jpg

Unregistered
11-07-07, 17:37
Wah this one can buy. I will buy all the units at $1million. Worth it. Can keep for a long time. Then I flip and earn hndreds of millions. Flip all but keep 3 units for myself to enjoy.

beavis
11-07-07, 21:18
Devonshire Residences is a high-end condominium with approximately 118 units. Facilities include, among other things, a clubhouse, swimming pool and tennis court. This is a prime residential development and its close proximity to Orchard Road, Singapore River, CTE and Somerset MRT station makes it an ideal and convenient place to live in. In its vicinity are schools such as CHIJ, River Valley Primary School.
http://www.allgreen.com.sg/allgreencorp/imgbank/devonshire.jpg

Anybody know the price/psf??
Location is good.

butthed
12-07-07, 01:42
er... beavis isn't this like errrr.. one devonshire?

mr funny
14-06-09, 16:54
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,337104-1244750340,00.html?

Published June 11, 2009

Local and foreign developers still offering properties

By EMILYN YAP


LOCAL and foreign developers continue to offer properties in Singapore as market sentiment stays up and the June school holidays come around.

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-06-11/BT_IMAGES_EYLAUNCH11.jpg
One Devonshire: It has 152 units, consisting of two to four-bedders, sky suites and penthouses

BT understands that projects such as Residences @ Killiney and One Devonshire may enter the market soon. And marketing events for beachside housing in Vietnam and Australia are coming to town this week.

Agents are now checking out interest in the 68-unit Residences @ Killiney by Hoi Hup Realty. The freehold project, near Somerset MRT station, comprises two to four-bedders and penthouses, and prices may start from $1,700 psf.

Preparations to launch another freehold project in the vicinity also appear to be under way. The 36-storey One Devonshire by Allgreen Properties has 152 units, consisting of two to four-bedders, sky suites and penthouses.

Research houses are divided on the outlook for the residential property market here. Considering that demand has been selective and more supply will be coming up, Nomura Singapore remains bearish on the sector.

'While a pick-up in pre-sale activity has buoyed the optimists, we believe such demand has been prompted by price discounting and IAS (interest absorption schemes),' its analysts said in a report yesterday.

In contrast, DMG & Partners Securities upgraded its call on the property sector to 'overweight' yesterday. Physical property prices may have bottomed in the first quarter of this year and more foreign buyers may enter the market in the next six to nine months, according to its report.

In the meantime, some foreign developers are counting on buyers from Singapore taking up their properties. In town today, Indochina Land is marketing apartments at the Hyatt Regency Danang Resort and Spa in Vietnam. Prices range from US$207 psf to US$326 psf, and a three-bedroom penthouse can cost up to US$895,000.

Sales representatives for Hilton Surfers Paradise Hotel and Residences on Australia's Gold Coast will be in Singapore this weekend to launch units which are priced from A$720,000 (S$833,800). Construction of the property was halted as the financial crisis hit the original developer last year, but it has resumed with the help of ANZ and Brookfield Multiplex.

bargain hunter
15-06-09, 19:27
there's a queue of monkeys forming up outside the One Devonshire showroom ahead of the private preview tomorrow and the official launch on Wednesday. :doh:

dtrax
15-06-09, 20:14
there's a queue of monkeys forming up outside the One Devonshire showroom ahead of the private preview tomorrow and the official launch on Wednesday. :doh:


lol ..Monkey agents queuing up again u mean?

Property_Owner
15-06-09, 20:30
Heard now left only 3 bedder right?

dtrax
15-06-09, 20:37
Not surprised because only 15 units, then internal sale probably sold abit and prebookers oso have priority, I would say demand for 2rms would have alot more interest

bargain hunter
15-06-09, 20:55
yeah, i dun expect pple willing to fork out 2 to 3+m to be queuing overnight themselves.


lol ..Monkey agents queuing up again u mean?

bargain hunter
15-06-09, 20:56
should still have 4 bedders hee.


Heard now left only 3 bedder right?

DKSG
16-06-09, 00:06
There is indeed a queue ...

Wonder developer will be nice and provide supper for these people ...

Some Chicken Rice from Chatterb** will be a nice gesture ...

Go Queuers ... GO!

YFG

dtrax
16-06-09, 01:04
mostly agents leh... maybe u buy chicken rice then resell them for $8 per packet at 3am?

bargain hunter
16-06-09, 01:24
there's a tent outside which is probably for pple to wait for their turn to go in and see the showflat. prob will let them sit in the tent if it rains.

bargain hunter
16-06-09, 19:30
decided to pop into the showroom today. allgreen private preview released around 100 of the 152 units and 80 to 90 units snapped up! almost 60% of the project is taken up already. :eek: madness already. tomorrow official launch.

eng00701
16-06-09, 19:45
decided to pop into the showroom today. allgreen private preview released around 100 of the 152 units and 80 to 90 units snapped up! almost 60% of the project is taken up already. :eek: madness already. tomorrow official launch.

wow i presume the un-taken ones are the low floor ones?
average psf 1700?

august
16-06-09, 19:48
steady lah! go go go!

qus
16-06-09, 20:39
let me go see the q tonight

Property_Owner
16-06-09, 20:52
let me go see the q tonight


Take some pictures hor. Thanks

dtrax
16-06-09, 22:10
stylo milo sia... developer really squeezing buyer's pocket.. the last 5 units of the 2 bedders going at $1910 psf based on the agent's info... the best part is that these floor all blocked view.. kudos

爱屋及乌
16-06-09, 22:24
Walked there around 7.30pm... I don;t see any queue. May be queue number issued


there's a queue of monkeys forming up outside the One Devonshire showroom ahead of the private preview tomorrow and the official launch on Wednesday. :doh:

DKSG
16-06-09, 22:42
Go Qus !

We will wait for your "live" report from the ground ...

I think developer will release the rest tomorrow ...

No point launching with 10 units ??

YFG

bargain hunter
16-06-09, 22:43
the queue was yesterday night. today, 100 units sold 80 to 90 units, no need to queue liao. tomorrow release to public can already.



Walked there around 7.30pm... I don;t see any queue. May be queue number issued

bargain hunter
16-06-09, 22:46
i saw the chart. they wrote clearly #30 and above and a certain, i can't remember, maybe 12 to 15 or a few mid floor levels were NOT RELEASED. among those released, most of the untaken units were 4 bedders which get hit by west sun and no view. other than that, mostly taken up already. that was at about 6pm. no queue by then and more agents than visitors (afterall, today is suppose to be only preview).




wow i presume the un-taken ones are the low floor ones?
average psf 1700?

bargain hunter
16-06-09, 22:52
actually, 1910psf for 904/914sq ft is relatively "cheap" as it is "only" between 1.7 to 1.75m. remember, we are expecting 1055sq ft R@K this friday to cost 1.8m and above? I think Allgreen has priced it at a sweet spot. The average price is around 1700+psf I think. But tomorrow, the launch of the > #30 units should be above 1800psf though.


stylo milo sia... developer really squeezing buyer's pocket.. the last 5 units of the 2 bedders going at $1910 psf based on the agent's info... the best part is that these floor all blocked view.. kudos

bargain hunter
16-06-09, 22:57
there should still be 50 units left, minus off the penthouses and sky villas i think still have 30 to 40+ units to sell but the 4 bedders as expected should still be slower to move. Now to watch the response for the Residences @ Kiliney across the road this friday. Their units are bigger but the project is smaller and shorter in height.




Go Qus !

We will wait for your "live" report from the ground ...

I think developer will release the rest tomorrow ...

No point launching with 10 units ??

YFG

DKSG
16-06-09, 23:29
Hey guys !

Kudos to all who made this forum very constructive !
Good information and constructive comments.

Well Done all !

YFG

qus
17-06-09, 00:26
Go Qus !

We will wait for your "live" report from the ground ...

I think developer will release the rest tomorrow ...

No point launching with 10 units ??

YFG

took a stroll to the site round 10 pm.. anti climax.. only 4 - 5 people mingling round the door..all look like agents.. one lady was holding a stryfoam box (packed chicken rice)..

15 mins later, they seem to be leaving but show suite was all bright and i could see the model of the condo thr the windows.. there were some people in there..

walked backed home after that..

bargain hunter
17-06-09, 00:35
wonder what those people are there for. when i left at 6pm the guard was already not letting people come in. anyway, now the units are released as and when the developer feels like it and in batches. those units >#30 and not released yet, prob also people also already left the cheques with agents and once released they just have to drop their cheques to secure so i guess really no need for agents to queue tonight anymore. you missed the show last night. :)


took a stroll to the site round 10 pm.. anti climax.. only 4 - 5 people mingling round the door..all look like agents.. one lady was holding a stryfoam box (packed chicken rice)..

15 mins later, they seem to be leaving but show suite was all bright and i could see the model of the condo thr the windows.. there were some people in there..

walked backed home after that..

dtrax
17-06-09, 02:57
The interior I would say so-so only comparable to martin place... only have 4rms showrm available.. wanting to take a few more but was stopped by the guard lol

nothing spectacular...

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs102.snc1/4559_93214137567_568502567_2059724_15908_n.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs082.snc1/4559_93213962567_568502567_2059721_4973751_n.jpg


http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs102.snc1/4559_93214052567_568502567_2059723_5406263_n.jpg

bargain hunter
17-06-09, 09:55
i agree. interior is so-so. originally i thought it was a very efficient design, able to fit in queen sized beds for all 4 bedrooms. on second thoughts, 1496 to 1603 sq ft for a luxurious 4 bedroom is a little small. :)

denverusa
17-06-09, 10:28
I was there when they balloted for 18-03, a 3 bedder for 2.455 mio. they had a shoebox and interested parties threw in their cheques and they drew the "LUCKY" one and everyone clapped. It was really hilarous . a small 1200+ or 1300 + sqft 3 bedder for 2.455m, i really dont know.....

august
17-06-09, 10:36
I was there when they balloted for 18-03, a 3 bedder for 2.455 mio. they had a shoebox and interested parties threw in their cheques and they drew the "LUCKY" one and everyone clapped. It was really hilarous . a small 1200+ or 1300 + sqft 3 bedder for 2.455m, i really dont know.....

1291 sq ft, dat works out to 1901psf ~ :eek:

bargain hunter
17-06-09, 13:04
special number mah, 18-03. tall enough to clear the developments east of it to get a good view. i wonder how much they will price the > #30, 03 stack units released today then?! won't be passing by today though so won't be able to give updates :D


1291 sq ft, dat works out to 1901psf ~ :eek:

爱屋及乌
17-06-09, 13:28
Droved pass there ard 1 pm, no crowd in the show room. I would say a bit quiet, 2 or 3 couples inside. Most of the agents was outside across the road waiting for clients.

Fully sold...?

bargain hunter
17-06-09, 13:36
maybe they decided to launch the remaining units in batches? wait for sat throw in one advert then sell all? the agents outside across the road are probably hutton agents, standing outside their Residences @ Kiliney project, all ready to prey on pple who visited and left one devonshire empty handed hehehe. then tell them, i give you priority, first day launch this fri, u won't leave empty handed.



Droved pass there ard 1 pm, no crowd in the show room. I would say a bit quiet, 2 or 3 couples inside. Most of the agents was outside across the road waiting for clients.

Fully sold...?

dtrax
17-06-09, 14:02
I was there when they balloted for 18-03, a 3 bedder for 2.455 mio. they had a shoebox and interested parties threw in their cheques and they drew the "LUCKY" one and everyone clapped. It was really hilarous . a small 1200+ or 1300 + sqft 3 bedder for 2.455m, i really dont know.....

clapping for being carrothead :scared-5:

bargain hunter
17-06-09, 14:46
Residences @ Kiliney launch delayed to 25th June, next Thurs, i wonder why...hmm...


clapping for being carrothead :scared-5:

爱屋及乌
17-06-09, 18:59
Wait till One Devonshire sold out... so that they can increase price by 10-20%...


Residences @ Kiliney launch delayed to 25th June, next Thurs, i wonder why...hmm...

eng00701
17-06-09, 19:33
Wait till One Devonshire sold out... so that they can increase price by 10-20%...

today i chiong two showrooms. went down devonshire at about 1pm today. it is selling extremely well. the 3 bedders were almost all gone. except for about 10 un-released units plus the 30+ floors un-released ones.
developer freezed price of the few remaining released but unsold units. then they revealed new pricing and released more units at about 1 plus. i was quoted close to $1900 psf for 16th floor and $1948 for 19th floor. cheap cheap le. :scared-4:
i saw last night's pricing from the agent. people who bought at preview last night got like approx $50-$100 psf cheaper for comparable floors.

at 1pm plus they did not release the 30+ floors ones. not sure if its released already.
based on current pricing, every floor increase like $16 psf. :scared-1:.
i wouldnt be surprised if 30+ high floor units hit $2100 psf upwards.

then i headed off to Miro. :)

bargain hunter
17-06-09, 20:42
so when the final units are sold above 2000psf, R@K can claim to be selling at a relative bargain at 1800psf next week even though their units are bigger. :eek:


today i chiong two showrooms. went down devonshire at about 1pm today. it is selling extremely well. the 3 bedders were almost all gone. except for about 10 un-released units plus the 30+ floors un-released ones.
developer freezed price of the few remaining released but unsold units. then they revealed new pricing and released more units at about 1 plus. i was quoted close to $1900 psf for 16th floor and $1948 for 19th floor. cheap cheap le. :scared-4:
i saw last night's pricing from the agent. people who bought at preview last night got like approx $50-$100 psf cheaper for comparable floors.

at 1pm plus they did not release the 30+ floors ones. not sure if its released already.
based on current pricing, every floor increase like $16 psf. :scared-1:.
i wouldnt be surprised if 30+ high floor units hit $2100 psf upwards.

then i headed off to Miro. :)

august
17-06-09, 20:59
clapping for being carrothead :scared-5:

LOL ! hidden agenda :banana:

mark744
17-06-09, 23:22
Could someone please explain to me what is driving the current rise in prices, fundamentals would appear to infer the opposite? As things stand I can't but help feel that there are two factors at play: 1) herd mentality, and 2) the local property market is treated as a giant casino. When I look at the properties on offer where is any sense of value? And what is going to underpin these high values other than the fact it will increase the costs of Singapore Inc? Thanks.

bargain hunter
17-06-09, 23:53
i can't explain but both your points 1) and 2) are valid. I guess we can add a 3) There are many Singaporeans who are (were) cash rich. they have decided that interest earned at the bank is too low, financial products too risky and are of the view that there will be hyperinflation. they decided that property is something real, something they can touch and won't disappear (like lehman bonds) won't be worth nothing (like fraud at some companies) and say, hey, let's buy property, interest on loans are (still) low.




Could someone please explain to me what is driving the current rise in prices, fundamentals would appear to infer the opposite? As things stand I can't but help feel that there are two factors at play: 1) herd mentality, and 2) the local property market is treated as a giant casino. When I look at the properties on offer where is any sense of value? And what is going to underpin these high values other than the fact it will increase the costs of Singapore Inc? Thanks.

eng00701
18-06-09, 00:37
i can't explain but both your points 1) and 2) are valid. I guess we can add a 3) There are many Singaporeans who are (were) cash rich. they have decided that interest earned at the bank is too low, financial products too risky and are of the view that there will be hyperinflation. they decided that property is something real, something they can touch and won't disappear (like lehman bonds) won't be worth nothing (like fraud at some companies) and say, hey, let's buy property, interest on loans are (still) low.

in all likelihood r@k will be another sell-out project. it seems as long as location is gd, singaporeans do not mind the prices, layout or size. practically all D9 new releases are snapped up within days / week. illuminaire, martinplace, 1 devonshire.

blind rat race for property has begun again. new developments will be snapped up. prices will edge up. pple will quickly buy before it goes up furthur. then developers on seeing good response, edge up prices further. pple will be pressured to purchase b4 prices go up. ... resale property owners will follow developer lead and increase their prices. ....here we go again.

is singapore property market the only one that is experiencing this sudden recovery? i think alot of voters the thread "Will Rivergate hit 1k psf and below?" (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=7321)may like to re-cast their vote.
wonder what will prompt the next crash. lets watch and see if with all these foreign buyers, the singapore buyer market would be able to absorb all these units that developers are throwing out.

bargain hunter
18-06-09, 01:56
i don't think this cycle is half as strong as the 07 one. the rally will end when the buying demand is met. at this pace, i think there will be many units sold before late aug (ie chinese 7th month). after that, the momentum may be gone and may not pick up after the 7th month. U see ppty market recovery in china, HK, sg and possibly elsewhere in asia as well but i think momentum buying cannot sustain and while prices may not crash, we may see a gradual decline later this year if prices keep going up between now and august.




in all likelihood r@k will be another sell-out project. it seems as long as location is gd, singaporeans do not mind the prices, layout or size. practically all D9 new releases are snapped up within days / week. illuminaire, martinplace, 1 devonshire.

blind rat race for property has begun again. new developments will be snapped up. prices will edge up. pple will quickly buy before it goes up furthur. then developers on seeing good response, edge up prices further. pple will be pressured to purchase b4 prices go up. ... resale property owners will follow developer lead and increase their prices. ....here we go again.

is singapore property market the only one that is experiencing this sudden recovery? i think alot of voters the thread "Will Rivergate hit 1k psf and below?" (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=7321)may like to re-cast their vote.
wonder what will prompt the next crash. lets watch and see if with all these foreign buyers, the singapore buyer market would be able to absorb all these units that developers are throwing out.

proud owner
18-06-09, 02:30
i can't explain but both your points 1) and 2) are valid. I guess we can add a 3) There are many Singaporeans who are (were) cash rich. they have decided that interest earned at the bank is too low, financial products too risky and are of the view that there will be hyperinflation. they decided that property is something real, something they can touch and won't disappear (like lehman bonds) won't be worth nothing (like fraud at some companies) and say, hey, let's buy property, interest on loans are (still) low.


your point on low interest income from bank deposits is not valid at this point ..

SGD interest rate has Not been high for a long time ... so it cannot be used as a reason

bargain hunter
18-06-09, 08:44
its just a wild guess. i am not sure about the very very high end but i have friends who have held cash in banks for a long time and because of the long wait itself, they think they have waited enough and wants to buy properties now. its not a rational thing but psychology is funny sometimes.


your point on low interest income from bank deposits is not valid at this point ..

SGD interest rate has Not been high for a long time ... so it cannot be used as a reason

cheerful
18-06-09, 09:04
its just a wild guess. i am not sure about the very very high end but i have friends who have held cash in banks for a long time and because of the long wait itself, they think they have waited enough and wants to buy properties now. its not a rational thing but psychology is funny sometimes.

Well if you look at it another way ... the looong wait is not for nothing ... spare cash is always ready as bullets to shoot during down time .. perhaps, it's the rite time for your frens to get in & make the purchase that they may have all along been wanting to do ....

The same applies for stock; keep spare cash for the rite moment ... :)

teddybear
18-06-09, 09:17
The draw factor seems to be the low interest rates (at about 1.6%) and extended period of mortgage loans! I heard that some banks are even allowing mortgage loans tenure to be as long as up to 82 years old! However, many buyers should be fore-warned that when they buy properties, they better factor in long-term average interest rate of 5.5% and a loan tenure of only up to 62 years old! (vs 1.6% up to 82 years old is a hell lot of difference in monthly instalments!). Interest rates will definitely go up, not will or not, but when! I still remember there was a time when bank loan rate was more than 10%! :scared-1:


i can't explain but both your points 1) and 2) are valid. I guess we can add a 3) There are many Singaporeans who are (were) cash rich. they have decided that interest earned at the bank is too low, financial products too risky and are of the view that there will be hyperinflation. they decided that property is something real, something they can touch and won't disappear (like lehman bonds) won't be worth nothing (like fraud at some companies) and say, hey, let's buy property, interest on loans are (still) low.

jitkiat
18-06-09, 09:34
your point on low interest income from bank deposits is not valid at this point ..

SGD interest rate has Not been high for a long time ... so it cannot be used as a reason
It may be something to do with the sudden surge of inflation rate at 2007/2008. Singapore has not experienced this kind of inflation for a very long time. I don't want to get flame again for giving "misleading" comment but I can't help to point out that CPI (consumer price index) is up almost 15% since year 1999. Since oil price has recovered to above 70USD, this may lead to many people's belief that inflation is again coming back. Coupled with super low FD rate, distrust in bank's financial products/mutual fund/investment-linked insurance & scary stock market volatility, many have decided to shift their asset allocation to properties. Also, last year our population increased to 4.84 million, we have 20,513 new citizens and 79,167 new PRs. Population is only 3.8million 12 years ago.

thomastansb
18-06-09, 10:36
10%? Which country are you in? I have been in the banking sector for the past 12 years. The highest I have seen is 6%. And it is a one off case because that cock did not refinance for dunno how long. The highest I have seen in normal cases is 3.8%.

Think of this logically. If 10% home loan, how much do you think the expected rental yield will be? 15%? So if 2 bedders in Icon cost 1 million, 15% will be 150000 per year. That work to be about 12000 per month. Just to rent a 2 bedders. You think anyone will bite? And do you think the property market can sustain anymore? Even at US, those super high risk sub-prime loan, the loan is only about 7-8%. We are talking about those people without income, 100% loan kind.





The draw factor seems to be the low interest rates (at about 1.6%) and extended period of mortgage loans! I heard that some banks are even allowing mortgage loans tenure to be as long as up to 82 years old! However, many buyers should be fore-warned that when they buy properties, they better factor in long-term average interest rate of 5.5% and a loan tenure of only up to 62 years old! (vs 1.6% up to 82 years old is a hell lot of difference in monthly instalments!). Interest rates will definitely go up, not will or not, but when! I still remember there was a time when bank loan rate was more than 10%! :scared-1:

stalingrad
18-06-09, 10:45
in all likelihood r@k will be another sell-out project. it seems as long as location is gd, singaporeans do not mind the prices, layout or size. practically all D9 new releases are snapped up within days / week. illuminaire, martinplace, 1 devonshire.

blind rat race for property has begun again. new developments will be snapped up. prices will edge up. pple will quickly buy before it goes up furthur. then developers on seeing good response, edge up prices further. pple will be pressured to purchase b4 prices go up. ... resale property owners will follow developer lead and increase their prices. ....here we go again.

is singapore property market the only one that is experiencing this sudden recovery? i think alot of voters the thread "Will Rivergate hit 1k psf and below?" (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=7321)may like to re-cast their vote.
wonder what will prompt the next crash. lets watch and see if with all these foreign buyers, the singapore buyer market would be able to absorb all these units that developers are throwing out.

I am more convinced than ever that rivergate will fall below 1k psf by the end of 2010. retal yields are falling like a rock. expats are leaving in droves. where are the fundamentals that will support the current price levels for D9 properties?

People are stupid, and tend to judge the reasonableness of current prices based on past price levels. They are too stupid to understand that the credit crisis was a game changer, and the prices for condo in D9 in 2007 and 2006 are a thing of the past and will not return for 10 or 20 years.

Human minds are defective, and that explains why One devenshire is selling like that hot cakes. When more and more condos are launched and rental yields keep falling, I bet one denvenshire will fall to 1k psf level too.

No need to rush, guys. just sit back and watch the stupid speculators burn, and burn in hell.:simmering::D

teddybear
18-06-09, 10:47
Young man, just because you are young and you have not seen it doesn't mean it has not happened. When it happened at that time, you are probably still sucking nipple? :doh:

And what on earn are you saying about rental yield? Does bank say that they must peg their loan interest rate to rental yield and will they ever do that? If they do, then current rental yield about 3% and they should be charging 3% loan interest instead of 1.6-2%.


10%? Which country are you in? I have been in the banking sector for the past 12 years. The highest I have seen is 6%. And it is a one off case because that cock did not refinance for dunno how long. The highest I have seen in normal cases is 3.8%.

Think of this logically. If 10% home loan, how much do you think the expected rental yield will be? 15%? So if 2 bedders in Icon cost 1 million, 15% will be 150000 per year. That work to be about 12000 per month. Just to rent a 2 bedders. You think anyone will bite? And do you think the property market can sustain anymore? Even at US, those super high risk sub-prime loan, the loan is only about 7-8%. We are talking about those people without income, 100% loan kind.

stalingrad
18-06-09, 10:55
I bet that a large number of One devenshire units will be returned shortly. :)

cheerful
18-06-09, 11:34
Young man, just because you are young and you have not seen it doesn't mean it has not happened. When it happened at that time, you are probably still sucking nipple? :doh:

And what on earn are you saying about rental yield? Does bank say that they must peg their loan interest rate to rental yield and will they ever do that? If they do, then current rental yield about 3% and they should be charging 3% loan interest instead of 1.6-2%.

Hi uncle teddybear, could you please share with us which period was that when int rate was that high ... would like to learn the history (yup, banks don't do charity work & won't peg according to rental yield). Thx.

jitkiat
18-06-09, 11:41
Hi uncle teddybear, could you please share with us which period was that when int rate was that high ... would like to learn the history (yup, banks don't do charity work & won't peg according to rental yield). Thx.

Could it be during 1973/74, 1980/81 oil crisis ? Inflation rate was super-high then.

EBD
18-06-09, 11:57
I have seen interest rates at 9-10% in Singapore. Just because you have never seen it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Is it likely to go back there? Who knows.

Also your assumption of rental yield being tied to loan interest makes me think your 12 years in the banking sector must have been in IT or something.

Rental is what you can get the market to cough up. If I am a renter, why do I care about the landlords problems. If you are loosing money every month to high interest, that is not my concern. My contract says X dollars per month. If it's renewal time and you ask me to service your mortgage by upping my rent 2x, I will probably be looking elsewhere at which point yield is zero.

Is this scenario likely. Could be. When I look at affordability of property I add risk analysis to my decision making. Currently interest rates can only go one way - up. With all the dollar printing going on inflation will eventually turn up & so will interest rates.
So when I look monthly repayments I look at 3%, 5%, 8% in the what if's.

Look to 1996 for the answers.


10%? Which country are you in? I have been in the banking sector for the past 12 years. The highest I have seen is 6%. And it is a one off case because that cock did not refinance for dunno how long. The highest I have seen in normal cases is 3.8%.

Think of this logically. If 10% home loan, how much do you think the expected rental yield will be? 15%? So if 2 bedders in Icon cost 1 million, 15% will be 150000 per year. That work to be about 12000 per month. Just to rent a 2 bedders. You think anyone will bite? And do you think the property market can sustain anymore? Even at US, those super high risk sub-prime loan, the loan is only about 7-8%. We are talking about those people without income, 100% loan kind.

eng00701
18-06-09, 13:44
I bet that a large number of One devenshire units will be returned shortly. :)

Returning unit
actually i very curious about the process of returning units. how much is lost if unit returned? to the best of my knowldge, 25% of booking fee if option not exercised. 23% if downpayment and stamp duty paid?

Units bought at different prices
for example what happens when units in same development are sold for very different prices by developer. for example, parc centennial when the developer marketed themselves, they sold 5 units to some clowns. then due to poor response, about few weeks later, they reduced prices by like 10-20% and passed over marketing to huttons and it was a sell-out. what about the 5 buyers who bought at a premium? martinplace 30 units were sold at average 1700 or 1800 mid last year. this year it was released at 1400 or 1500. will developer offer them discount?

stalingrad
18-06-09, 14:54
I think you need to exercise the option before paying the stamp duty. After you exercise the option and pay the stamp duty, you are hooked for life. You can't just walk away.

So, to those speculators that swarm to one Davershire like termites to the light in our living room, think twice before you exercise the option.

gfoo
18-06-09, 15:13
I think you need to exercise the option before paying the stamp duty. After you exercise the option and pay the stamp duty, you are hooked for life. You can't just walk away.

So, to those speculators that swarm to one Davershire like termites to the light in our living room, think twice before you exercise the option.

Once you exercise the option - even before stamp duty - the developer can enact civil proceedings to claim the balance and costs. You prob have a 10% chance of winning claiming temporary insanity and stuff. Once you pay up stamp duty, it's as good as a marriage

stalingrad
18-06-09, 15:21
Once you exercise the option - even before stamp duty - the developer can enact civil proceedings to claim the balance and costs. You prob have a 10% chance of winning claiming temporary insanity and stuff. Once you pay up stamp duty, it's as good as a marriage

I do think those buyers that forked out 2k psf for one denvonshire in this economic climate and in the face of so many condos being completed and launched in the next two years, do have a chance to plead temporary insanity. How else can you explain their behavior?

gfoo
18-06-09, 15:42
I do think those buyers that forked out 2k psf for one denvonshire in this economic climate and in the face of so many condos being completed and launched in the next two years, do have a chance to plead temporary insanity. How else can you explain their behavior?

I guess their other alternative is 'mental handicap'. Just take an IQ test and let the judge certify them as morons.

i brought some close ang mor frens (here in town for CMMA) to 3 areas: Killiney, Woodleigh and MBay on a tickle. Their reaction:

Killiney: 'Dude you said it's Orchard Road. This ain't orchard road. Why would anyone wanna pay US$1.5psf to be near a strip mall anyways?

Woodleigh: After they heard the area was an ex-cemetary, they begged me to drive off. After they heard it was going for US$600psf, i think one had hernia (intestines fell into his balls sac)

MBay: 'If this turns out to be a manhattan, it's cheap at US$1000psf. But it'll never be as good as the ol' US of A, you f@cking chink. God bless america'

stalingrad
18-06-09, 16:12
I have always thought that singaporeans are crazy to be willing to pay the highest prices to live close to the most polluted and most crowded areas such as orchard road and river valley road. Take orchard turn for example. I wouldn't live there if they handed it to me for free let alone paying 3k to 4k to buy one.

that said, I cannot expect all singaporeans to be like me, preferring serenity to noise, and fresh air to diesel fume. but if you look at economic fundamentals, you would also conclude that the buyers of one devonshire are crazy. With so many condos waiting to be launched and completed in the next few years, where would they find the renters willing to pay 10k per month to justify their investments?

the only thing you can say is lemming mentality and kiasu. they would rather die than let a condo boom pass them by. morgan stanley says that singapore is over-built, meaning that there are too many condos already and too many to be built in the future for buyers at current price levels not to lose 40% to 50% in two to three years. I think that is entirely possible.

eng00701
18-06-09, 17:04
I am more convinced than ever that rivergate will fall below 1k psf by the end of 2010. retal yields are falling like a rock. expats are leaving in droves. where are the fundamentals that will support the current price levels for D9 properties?

People are stupid, and tend to judge the reasonableness of current prices based on past price levels. They are too stupid to understand that the credit crisis was a game changer, and the prices for condo in D9 in 2007 and 2006 are a thing of the past and will not return for 10 or 20 years.

Human minds are defective, and that explains why One devenshire is selling like that hot cakes. When more and more condos are launched and rental yields keep falling, I bet one denvenshire will fall to 1k psf level too.

No need to rush, guys. just sit back and watch the stupid speculators burn, and burn in hell.:simmering::D

i am not trying to defend the 1 devon buyers but would think to say 1 devon will fall to 1k psf is abit over-exaggeration.

firstly hdb prices proven to be remarkably resilient even in the face of the financial crisis. one of the reasons is that hdb controls the supply and would not build if there is no demand.
assuming hdb prices remain stable, there is a limit to the price to which suburb condos will fall. suburbs condo developments will always be more ex than hdb. prices cannot fall too low as it will spur a surge in demand for those condos. if hdb cost 400psf, how can condos cost only 500psf?
by saying that a prime D condo drop to 1k psf, non-prime is at 400-600 psf? it cant be the case that 1 devon is 1k and clementi is 900psf. who on earth will buy clementi then.

secondly, developers also have their cost. they dun simpily inherit the land. they would have bought the land from government or en-bloc-ed it. there is also the material and construction cost. for the condos built in two years time, some of the land were bought at a premium price during boom and developers wouldnt sell unless a min price is met. although there is a large supply coming up, again it cant possibly depress prices so much. cost of land cannot drop drastically since there are only 2 main sources, buy from govenment or en-bloc. the government controls the price of land by not releasing until min bid is met. if you were the home owner, would u accept a dirt cheap quotation from developer?

i am not trying to say that the 1 devon buyers got a steal at 2k psf. maybe. nobody knows. maybe they over-paid by 20%. maybe more. but the point is if a global economic crisis which seemed to have no light at the end of the tunnel, only depressed property by 30%. it just doesnt make sense that a case of over-supply will crash the market and prices will drop 100% from 2k to 1k.

stalingrad
18-06-09, 17:19
first of all, going from 2k to 1k psf is a drop of 50%, not 100%.

Second, your argument about HDB provides a floor for condos is true. but that also means condo prices represent a ceiling for HDB prices. When demand and supply for condos get out of whack, prices for condos will drop, dragging HDBp prices with it. this will happens no matter what the government does. It cannot unbuild HDB units by dynamiting them, can they?

Third, you said developers will refrain from selling when prices are low. that is true, and that is precisely what they did in the first quarter of this year. But can they hold the inventory forever? They cannot, because they incur a lot of cost holding the inventory. Thus, over the long run, it is demand that determines prices for condo, not developers' holding power.

Ultimately condo prices must be supported by rental yields. against the backdrop of dropping rental yields, prices of condo cannot go up. thus, I am convinced more than ever that 1k psf for one devonshire is entirely possible.

jitkiat
18-06-09, 17:24
first of all, going from 2k to 1k psf is a drop of 50%, not 100%.

Second, your argument about HDB provides a floor for condos is true. but that also means condo prices represent a ceiling for HDB prices. When demand and supply for condos get out of whack, prices for condos will drop, dragging HDBp prices with it. this will happens no matter what the government does. It cannot unbuild HDB units by dynamiting them, can they?

Third, you said developers will refrain from selling when prices are low. that is true, and that is precisely what they did in the first quarter of this year. But can they hold the inventory forever? They cannot, because they incur a lot of cost holding the inventory. Thus, over the long run, it is demand that determines prices for condo, not developers' holding power.

Ultimately condo prices must be supported by rental yields. against the backdrop of dropping rental yields, prices of condo cannot go up. thus, I am convinced more than ever that 1k psf for one devonshire is entirely possible.
Everything is possible with a probability. If the probability is high, there will be people shorting SC Global, All Greens, Bukit Sembawang where biz is primarily in high end segment. Judging from the property stock prices, obviously the market does not attach a very high probability of another 50% property crash in Singapore. It is like the VIX option trader who makes a 800,000 USD leverage bet on VIX > 45 but below 55 in summer 2009, obviously he thinks the probability of that happening is very high. And VIX is now only 31.54 ... may be the option trader knows something real bad coming?

stalingrad
18-06-09, 17:32
Everything is possible with a probability. If the probability is high, there will be people shorting SC Global, All Greens, Bukit Sembawang where biz is primarily in high end segment. Judging from the property stock prices, obviously the market does not attach a very high probability of another 50% property crash in Singapore. It is like the VIX option trader who makes a 800,000 USD leverage bet on VIX > 45 but below 55 in summer 2009, obviously he thinks the probability of that happening is very high.
the reasons that developers' share prices have corrected, but not crashed are many-fold, one of which is that there are so many "naive" buyers out there. In fact, I would even say that developers are toasting each other for the luck of having so many buyers suddenly appearing out of the woodwork. They were really worried early this year that they would go bankrupt.

But that doesn't mean that prices will not crash later on. and who will suffer the most when they do crash? not the developers. It will be the buyers.

jitkiat
18-06-09, 17:40
the reasons that developers' share prices have corrected, but not crashed are many-fold, one of which is that there are so many "naive" buyers out there. In fact, I would even say that developers are toasting each other for the luck of having so many buyers suddenly appearing out of the woodwork. They were really worried early this year that they would go bankrupt.

But that doesn't mean that prices will not crash. and who will suffer the most if they do crash. not the developers. It will be the buyers.
What is so good about property developers going bust and SG properties going into deflation spiral? Singapore prosperity relies a lot on property developers taking business risk to build this nation. Singapore government has a stake directly or indirectly in these developers and will not wish to see them belly up. If buyers of One Devonshire think that they get a good deal at 2000psf, we have to thank them for drawing down the huge supply pile in this market segment. If another crisis strikes, at least we will not be in dire oversupply situations and less likely to fall into deadly deflation spiral.

cheerful
18-06-09, 17:43
Well said .. this one >> ("HDB provides a floor for condos is true. but that also means condo prices represent a ceiling for HDB prices. When demand and supply for condos get out of whack, prices for condos will drop, dragging HDBp prices with it. this will happens no matter what the government does. It cannot unbuild HDB units by dynamiting them, can they? ... But can they hold the inventory forever? They cannot, because they incur a lot of cost holding the inventory. Thus, over the long run, it is demand that determines prices for condo, not developers' holding power. ")


The toasting part could be true, esp for some projects at marymount selling at tt kinda price! .... but speculators/investors should feel more pain bah (as compared to owner-occupiers) ...



the reasons that developers' share prices have corrected, but not crashed are many-fold, one of which is that there are so many "naive" buyers out there. In fact, I would even say that developers are toasting each other for the luck of having so many buyers suddenly appearing out of the woodwork. They were really worried early this year that they would go bankrupt.

But that doesn't mean that prices will not crash later on. and who will suffer the most when they do crash? not the developers. It will be the buyers.

eng00701
18-06-09, 17:44
first of all, going from 2k to 1k psf is a drop of 50%, not 100%.

Second, your argument about HDB provides a floor for condos is true. but that also means condo prices represent a ceiling for HDB prices. When demand and supply for condos get out of whack, prices for condos will drop, dragging HDBp prices with it. this will happens no matter what the government does. It cannot unbuild HDB units by dynamiting them, can they?

Third, you said developers will refrain from selling when prices are low. that is true, and that is precisely what they did in the first quarter of this year. But can they hold the inventory forever? They cannot, because they incur a lot of cost holding the inventory. Thus, over the long run, it is demand that determines prices for condo, not developers' holding power.

Ultimately condo prices must be supported by rental yields. against the backdrop of dropping rental yields, prices of condo cannot go up. thus, I am convinced more than ever that 1k psf for one devonshire is entirely possible.

haha. i hate this. presenting our points and arguing over a forum does absolutely nothing to change real situation. i am no expert and will no pretend to be one. but anyway here goes.

hideous maths. my bad for the 100% thingy. made mistake by considering from other point. 1k to 2k is 100%.
my point is that there is a threshold for price drop. while government cant dynamite buildings, they are not entirely helpless either.
singapore is not a place with infinite land. the min cost of a development will be the land cost and construction cost which should remain stable within a range. unless the developer can make a profit after factoring in all these, there would no longer be anymore supply since it makes no sense for them to build. if hdb deems there is a over-supply they could just stop construction. stemming the over-supply. the fact that new hdb developments are still selling well at these prices show that there is a demand for stay rather than investment.

if i were a hdb deweller, when condos drop to a certain level, i will surely consider buying. the suburb condos will see a rise in interest as seen in developments like mi casa and arte. this will provide a buffer for the price drop of condos.

while i am not saying that projects being released now have a good chance of de-valuing, it just does not seem logical that it will drop beyond the worst of the recent crisis

stalingrad
18-06-09, 17:45
What is so good about property developers going bust and SG properties going into deflation spiral? Singapore prosperity relies a lot on property developers taking business risk to build this nation. Singapore government has a stake directly or indirectly in these developers and will not wish to see them belly up. If buyers of One Devonshire thinks that they get a good deal at 2000psf, we have to thank them for drawing down the huge supply pile in this market segment. If another crisis strikes, at least we will not be in dire oversupply situations and will not fall into deadly deflation spiral.
I am not wishing for singapore to go into a deflationary spiral. In fact, I am not wishing for anything bad for singapore at all. don't talk like I am a traitor. but what one hope and one thinks will happen are entirely different matters.

While I wish singapore and condo buyers well, I firmly believe that too many people are fooled by the lull in the financial storm that is just unfolding. these guys that jumped the guns are going to suffer tremendously when the storm regains its strength and hits us again.

jitkiat
18-06-09, 17:52
I am not wishing for singapore to go into a deflationary spiral. In fact, I am not wishing for anything bad for singapore at all. don't talk like I am a traitor. but what one hope and one thinks will happen are entirely different matters.

While I wish singapore and condo buyers well, I firmly believe that too many people are fooled by the lull in the financial storm that is just unfolding. these guys that jumped the guns are going to suffer tremendously when the storm regains its strength and hits us again.

Hmm .. may be we should ask Property_Owner and Alexis why they are buying up so many condos. These people are certainly not fools. And I don't think they will suffer tremendously when the storm regains its strength.

stalingrad
18-06-09, 17:55
Hmm .. may be we should ask Property_Owner and Alexis why they are buying up so many condos. These people are certainly not fools. And I don't think they will suffer tremendously when the storm regains its strength.

you are not a naive person, given that you know about VIX. but what is tremendously? if these Alexis buyers lose just 20%, that would be a complete wipe out for them. I don't need to remind you that they finance the other 80% with bank loans.

jitkiat
18-06-09, 17:58
you are not a naive person, given that you know about VIX. but what is tremendously? if these Alexis buyers lose just 20%, that would be a complete wipe out for them. I don't need to remind you that they finance the other 80% with bank loans.

Sorry, Alexis refers to a forumer who bought many condo units including Alexis project. What I really mean is that are you sure that those who invested in these projects are not rich and smart? Because you talked like people who buy properties now are all fools cheated by property developers.

爱屋及乌
18-06-09, 18:01
what is your stake and what is your defination of "large number" , e.g 20% or 50% and "shortly" , e.g within 3 , 6 or 9 months ...?


I bet that a large number of One devenshire units will be returned shortly. :)

denverusa
18-06-09, 18:41
i heard there are many professionals and businessmen bought one devon without loans . so i presume they know what they are doing so we shd not be worrying abt them !

KT_Lim
18-06-09, 20:49
people have a choice with their financial management. maybe they are fools to jump into the property bangwagon. but what's with all this cursing abt fools and morons? I would think if ur so smart, u would not be spending time here making small chat, would u? end of the day, its people's monies and u just sound like a sour grape!



you are not a naive person, given that you know about VIX. but what is tremendously? if these Alexis buyers lose just 20%, that would be a complete wipe out for them. I don't need to remind you that they finance the other 80% with bank loans.

bargain hunter
18-06-09, 22:19
afterall, one devonshire units are efficient (all bedrooms able to fit in a queen sized bed) despite not big and luxurious sized, so understandably, the psf is high. but if you compare say high floor 4 bedrooms at martin place 1894 sq ft at 1550psf (2.93m) and 4 bedroom 1603 sq ft at 1750psf (2.8m) at one devonshire, one devonshire units are actually "cheaper" in absolute quantum despite higher psf and better location. the same applies for the 2 and 3 bedrooms (even if not cheaper quantum is at least similar). that probably explains the rationale behind why people are snapping up the units at close to 2k psf. At this moment, the buyers are not of the opinion that they are buying something overvalued, so why should they not exercise their options? down the road, if the property market turns down again, just too bad for them, but had they bought a ppty elsewhere, it would fall as much as well anyway.

eng00701
18-06-09, 23:04
afterall, one devonshire units are efficient (all bedrooms able to fit in a queen sized bed) despite not big and luxurious sized, so understandably, the psf is high. but if you compare say high floor 4 bedrooms at martin place 1894 sq ft at 1550psf (2.93m) and 4 bedroom 1603 sq ft at 1750psf (2.8m) at one devonshire, one devonshire units are actually "cheaper" in absolute quantum despite higher psf and better location. the same applies for the 2 and 3 bedrooms (even if not cheaper quantum is at least similar). that probably explains the rationale behind why people are snapping up the units at close to 2k psf. At this moment, the buyers are not of the opinion that they are buying something overvalued, so why should they not exercise their options? down the road, if the property market turns down again, just too bad for them, but had they bought a ppty elsewhere, it would fall as much as well anyway.

not too sure about figures for martinplace. apparently straits time quotes martinplace as being sold at a median price of $1423 psf. 1750 psf for 1 devon would be preview price of a mid floor unit.

bargain hunter
19-06-09, 00:48
i did get quotes for both martin place and one devonshire. a mid 20s floor for 4 bedder, i was quoted 1750psf at one devonshire and 1550psf for martin place for IAS scheme. Non NPS less another 2% for both.


not too sure about figures for martinplace. apparently straits time quotes martinplace as being sold at a median price of $1423 psf. 1750 psf for 1 devon would be preview price of a mid floor unit.

bargain hunter
23-06-09, 10:25
Latest update from BT today:

Over at Devonshire Road, Allgreen Properties sold 130 units last week at One Devonshire, a 36-storey freehold condo with a total 152 units.
The average price of the units sold is understood to be $1,800 psf, assuming a normal progress payment scheme.
Allgreen is charging buyers a 2 per cent price premium for IAS. For those who opt for the deferred payment scheme, the price premium is 3 per cent.
Around 65 per cent of the 130 buyers have opted for normal progress payment. Knight Frank is marketing the development.

mr funny
23-06-09, 12:22
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/suite/story/0,4574,338787,00.html?

Published June 23, 2009

New projects enjoy strong weekend sales

8@ Woodleigh drew mostly S'poreans, specu-vestors due to its location

By KALPANA RASHIWALA


(SINGAPORE) There seems to be no let-up in home sales.

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-06-23/BT_IMAGES_KRWOOD23.jpg
Selling like hotcakes: 302 of the total 330 units in the 8@ Woodleigh condo were sold between Friday and Sunday. The average price of the 99-year leasehold project near Potong Pasir MRT Station is about $780 per square foot

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2009-06-23/BT_IMAGES_KRWOOD23-H3W.jpg
The Gale: A Facebook page for Tripartite Developers' project will be launched to help market it. It is expected to be launched to the public in July

Frasers Centrepoint is said to have sold 302 of the total 330 units in its 8@Woodleigh condo since Friday. The average price of the 99-year leasehold project near Potong Pasir MRT Station is about $780 per square foot. Buyers who opt for an interest absorption scheme (IAS) offered by the developer have to pay 3 per cent more.

The 15-storey development comprises five blocks. About 40 per cent of the units are studios, two-bedders as well as apartments with two-bedrooms plus study. The remaining 60 per cent are three- and four-bedders.

The average price of a studio unit is around $400,000 while a two-bedder typically costs between $650,000 and $670,000.

The project drew mostly Singaporean buyers. In addition to attracting those who bought units for their own occupation, the project is said to have drawn a fair bit of specu-vestors.

8@Woodleigh's location next to the future Stamford American International School gives it a strong investment appeal.

'Some people bought with a view to leasing the units to expat families (for the bigger units) or to the single teachers at the school (for studios and two-bedders),' a market watcher said.

The project is being marketed by DTZ and ERA.

Over at Devonshire Road, Allgreen Properties sold 130 units last week at One Devonshire, a 36-storey freehold condo with a total 152 units.

The average price of the units sold is understood to be $1,800 psf, assuming a normal progress payment scheme.

Allgreen is charging buyers a 2 per cent price premium for IAS. For those who opt for the deferred payment scheme, the price premium is 3 per cent.

Around 65 per cent of the 130 buyers have opted for normal progress payment. Knight Frank is marketing the development.

Chip Eng Seng group's Oasis @ Elias condo is expected to be released soon, as early as this week. The 99-year project has a total 388 units and should give some competition to City Developments' Livia condo nearby.

Over at Flora Road, in the Upper Changi area, Tripartite Developers is getting ready to launch its freehold condo, The Gale. A Facebook page for the project will be launched to help market the project.

The Gale comprises 329 units in nine blocks. The eight-storey project has a range of unit sizes, from one-bedders to four-bedroom apartments with a roof terrace.

Buyers will have the option of signing up for IAS. Buyers and current owners of a Tripartite property will enjoy a loyalty bonus (a 0.5 per cent price discount) if they buy a unit at The Gale, and a referral fee (0.5 per cent of purchase price) if they get a friend or family member to buy a unit in the condo.

Tripartite is a joint venture involving Hong Leong Holdings, City Developments and TID Pte Ltd. Hong Leong Holdings, which issued a press statement on the project yesterday, did not give an indication of pricing. 'The project is expected to be launched to the public in July,' it added.

bargain hunter
26-06-09, 10:24
From The Edge,


http://www.theedgesingapore.com/component/content/article/978-2009/5350-cc-country-cover.html

panamera
29-06-09, 23:42
people have a choice with their financial management. maybe they are fools to jump into the property bangwagon. but what's with all this cursing abt fools and morons? I would think if ur so smart, u would not be spending time here making small chat, would u? end of the day, its people's monies and u just sound like a sour grape!

Well said.. Most forumers have a vested agenda here. My guess most are waiting to buy. Sellers just get the agent to market at their asking price.

Home owners probably are at reno forums figuring out how to do up their place.

That leaves the bulk as buyers, who are trying to talk down prices so that they can buy at the low and are worried that the low has passed on hindsight.

Some are probably trying to upgrade themselves from the Carabelle to District 9 on the cheap.

nobrainer32007
30-06-09, 08:23
Exactly!

Some missed the boat totally and some scared to miss the boat hence kao pek kao bu here :hell-hath-no-fury:




Well said.. Most forumers have a vested agenda here. My guess most are waiting to buy. Sellers just get the agent to market at their asking price.

Home owners probably are at reno forums figuring out how to do up their place.

That leaves the bulk as buyers, who are trying to talk down prices so that they can buy at the low and are worried that the low has passed on hindsight.

Some are probably trying to upgrade themselves from the Carabelle to District 9 on the cheap.

gfoo
30-06-09, 08:48
You forgot one more category - those ma long long chee siow chia pa bo sai pangs like me :)

Property_Owner
30-06-09, 10:09
Well said.. Most forumers have a vested agenda here. My guess most are waiting to buy. Sellers just get the agent to market at their asking price.

Home owners probably are at reno forums figuring out how to do up their place.

That leaves the bulk as buyers, who are trying to talk down prices so that they can buy at the low and are worried that the low has passed on hindsight.

Some are probably trying to upgrade themselves from the Carabelle to District 9 on the cheap.

Don't have to talk to bring down the price. It will happen. As it always had. What goes up will come down. What came down will goes up. It's a cycle. Be it properties or stocks. It's about judgement and timimg, goes in at the wrong time end up a loser. Who dares wins!

bargain hunter
13-08-09, 16:27
Novelty group win already. Just a few months back, Espada was supposed to be a 48 unit super luxurious condo of super big 3 and 4 bedrooms:

http://www.savills.com.sg/viewFile.aspx?id=1985

today, i received an sms saying there will be 1 blk of 32 storey, 233 units of 1, 1+1 and 2 bedders, launching soon. :doh: If its the same plot of 38,300sq ft of land, these are going to be mickey mouse units and simple average would be 7 units a floor?! This is so going to cheapen the whole st thomas, devonshire, kiliney area. sigh...very extreme leh, going from one end to the other within a few months!

teddybear
13-08-09, 16:42
Avoid St Thomas Walk area lah, not so convenient yet priced at a premium. Need to walk 1 big round to reach Somerset MRT station and Orchard. Furthermore so close to the SingTel BIG BIG antennas.


Novelty group win already. Just a few months back, Espada was supposed to be a 48 unit super luxurious condo of super big 3 and 4 bedrooms:

http://www.savills.com.sg/viewFile.aspx?id=1985

today, i received an sms saying there will be 1 blk of 32 storey, 233 units of 1, 1+1 and 2 bedders, launching soon. :doh: If its the same plot of 38,300sq ft of land, these are going to be mickey mouse units and simple average would be 7 units a floor?! This is so going to cheapen the whole st thomas, devonshire, kiliney area. sigh...very extreme leh, going from one end to the other within a few months!

EBD
13-08-09, 16:46
Agree & disagree.

I used to stay at one point where one devonshire now being built. That was easy to get to Somerset.
A couple of friends stay on St Thomas walk. Not easy to get to Somerset.... however ... they all have cars. You can afford a condo there, transport is not your main concern. In fact inaccessibility is what makes it nice...


Avoid St Thomas Walk area lah, not so convenient yet priced at a premium. Need to walk 1 big round to reach Somerset MRT station and Orchard. Furthermore so close to the SingTel BIG BIG antennas.

bargain hunter
13-08-09, 16:58
but actually, with so many developments coming up in st thomas, devonshire and killiney roads, can the single laned 2 way traffic at killiney road, devonshire road and st thomas walk support all this? i can imagine one big traffic jam for cars coming up and not much better for human traffic to mrt without proper pavements if we are going to have a 233 luxurious mickey mouse unit condo at st thomas :D



Agree & disagree.

I used to stay at one point where one devonshire now being built. That was easy to get to Somerset.
A couple of friends stay on St Thomas walk. Not easy to get to Somerset.... however ... they all have cars. You can afford a condo there, transport is not your main concern. In fact inaccessibility is what makes it nice...

stalingrad
13-08-09, 16:58
Novelty group win already. Just a few months back, Espada was supposed to be a 48 unit super luxurious condo of super big 3 and 4 bedrooms:

http://www.savills.com.sg/viewFile.aspx?id=1985

today, i received an sms saying there will be 1 blk of 32 storey, 233 units of 1, 1+1 and 2 bedders, launching soon. :doh: If its the same plot of 38,300sq ft of land, these are going to be mickey mouse units and simple average would be 7 units a floor?! This is so going to cheapen the whole st thomas, devonshire, kiliney area. sigh...very extreme leh, going from one end to the other within a few months!

the area is going to the dogs. it is supposed to be populated by the super rich. now it is going to be populated by super renters and super speculators. not good for singapore as a financial center.

teddybear
13-08-09, 17:03
Usually that sort of area mostly rented out one lah. So short walking distance to MRT is important as many of these expats don't drive. If not convenient, most won't rent there or demand lower rental. Those expats who drive usually also have much bigger housing allowance and won't rent mickey mouse units also lah. They usually go for those about $10k pm rental.


Agree & disagree.

I used to stay at one point where one devonshire now being built. That was easy to get to Somerset.
A couple of friends stay on St Thomas walk. Not easy to get to Somerset.... however ... they all have cars. You can afford a condo there, transport is not your main concern. In fact inaccessibility is what makes it nice...

bargain hunter
13-08-09, 17:10
precisely. while i thought their super big units were too exaggerated, the U-turn is also exaggerated. i thought something like one devonshire, more normal, size would be good for rental.


Usually that sort of area mostly rented out one lah. So short walking distance to MRT is important as many of these expats don't drive. If not convenient, most won't rent there or demand lower rental. Those expats who drive usually also have much bigger housing allowance and won't rent mickey mouse units also lah. They usually go for those about $10k pm rental.

stalingrad
13-08-09, 17:12
precisely. while i thought their super big units were too exaggerated, the U-turn is also exaggerated. i thought something like one devonshire, more normal, size would be good for rental.
instead of families, now you get drifters living in that area. Instead of people with senior positions in a multi-national firms, now you get low class people with two year contracts living there. stay away.


Ten years from now, that area will be famous for prostitutes serving lonely clientele.

bargain hunter
13-08-09, 17:23
i would think their asking rents would still be quite substantial but on a more detailed calculation, 1 bedder of 400+sq ft prob can ask for +/-2k depending on market conditions...its gonna be like alexis, except in d9...a dormitory in d9...



instead of families, now you get drifters living in that area. Instead of people with senior positions in a multi-national firms, now you get low class people with two year contracts living there. stay away.

august
14-08-09, 01:27
instead of families, now you get drifters living in that area. Instead of people with senior positions in a multi-national firms, now you get low class people with two year contracts living there. stay away.



i quite agree with you.. so sad ...

teddybear
14-08-09, 10:15
Wah so bad meh? Even considering a current low rental rate of $5 psf pm, a 500 sqft mickey mouse unit there will still cost at least $2500 pm which will be higher than what a person can get for a 2BR unit in the OCR area. Furthermore, there seem to be more focus and supervision in CCR region and hence less likely to get people partitioning the apt into several rooms to get higher rental yields. The same cannot be said about the 2BR or 3BR in OCR. Will probably see more drifters and low class people etc there in OCR than in CCR. :banghead:


instead of families, now you get drifters living in that area. Instead of people with senior positions in a multi-national firms, now you get low class people with two year contracts living there. stay away.


Ten years from now, that area will be famous for prostitutes serving lonely clientele.

stalingrad
14-08-09, 14:05
Wah so bad meh? Even considering a current low rental rate of $5 psf pm, a 500 sqft mickey mouse unit there will still cost at least $2500 pm which will be higher than what a person can get for a 2BR unit in the OCR area. Furthermore, there seem to be more focus and supervision in CCR region and hence less likely to get people partitioning the apt into several rooms to get higher rental yields. The same cannot be said about the 2BR or 3BR in OCR. Will probably see more drifters and low class people etc there in OCR than in CCR. :banghead:
These low-level expats don't own a car, so they would prefer to live in CCR. Moreover, if you are right and that these low-level expats prefer to live in OCR, then where would the renters for these chicken coop condos in D9 come from? Wouldn't these chicken coop condos all remain empty and plunge the owners into personal bankruptcy?

either way, it is not good for D9 to have so many chicken coop condos.:mad:

august
14-08-09, 14:37
Wah so bad meh? Even considering a current low rental rate of $5 psf pm, a 500 sqft mickey mouse unit there will still cost at least $2500 pm which will be higher than what a person can get for a 2BR unit in the OCR area. Furthermore, there seem to be more focus and supervision in CCR region and hence less likely to get people partitioning the apt into several rooms to get higher rental yields. The same cannot be said about the 2BR or 3BR in OCR. Will probably see more drifters and low class people etc there in OCR than in CCR. :banghead:

Well is hard to say now. Yes devonshire location is great, but at some point tenants will find a tradeoff between location and the living condition (space premium). i think this may be a bigger problem for mickey mouse units not in CCR, e.g. alexis, parc imperial..

qus
14-08-09, 22:31
These low-level expats don't own a car, so they would prefer to live in CCR. Moreover, if you are right and that these low-level expats prefer to live in OCR, then where would the renters for these chicken coop condos in D9 come from? Wouldn't these chicken coop condos all remain empty and plunge the owners into personal bankruptcy?

either way, it is not good for D9 to have so many chicken coop condos.:mad:

haha, low level cannot be called expat in the true sense..

teddybear
14-08-09, 22:58
No matter how, CCR is much more expensive than OCR, so these low-level expats are still expats (better off than the other non-expats foreigners) after all and they seem to be better off to afford the CCR higher costs of living as opposed to the low-level non-expats living in OCR. Generally, for renting out, people prefer to rent to expats because they generally take better care of the property as opposed to non-expats. The chicken coops in CCR, regardless of how, still commands better premium than a 2BR in OCR because the fittings & finishings are of premium quality vs OCR. Whether anybody is going to rent the chicken coops is the owners concern isn't it? The fact that the low-level expats choose the CCR chicken coop of premium quality of fittings & finishings as opposed to bigger pig sty of poorer quality do seem to indicate something isn't it? Owners who choose CCR chicken coop to OCR pig sty may know/understand something that we don't?


These low-level expats don't own a car, so they would prefer to live in CCR. Moreover, if you are right and that these low-level expats prefer to live in OCR, then where would the renters for these chicken coop condos in D9 come from? Wouldn't these chicken coop condos all remain empty and plunge the owners into personal bankruptcy?

either way, it is not good for D9 to have so many chicken coop condos.:mad:

Condorich
15-08-09, 07:24
You must not make the assumption that All expatriates are rich... there are cost conscious ones who don't own a car or never will own one in Singapore, and find the rental too expansive for that kind of space.

In city 'chicken coup' style condo's, quite likely that your tenants are from Hong Kong or Japan (where the place they come from a already chicken coups... and they are already used to that kind of space... space enough just to go home and sleep) and.. mostly singles.

Don't forget that the reason for buying a home is for the very basic need of roof over head and not for rental. If you are going for rental... you have to be certain that there will be tenants when the condo is ready... otherwise... you are screwed if you cannot afford the installments without the income from rental. Of course if you can afford the installments even without income from rental, you are quite likely to gain from capital appreciation.

tanumy
15-08-09, 09:55
so expensive better to buy DBR at simei as price is gd and great for investment opportunity.

focus
15-08-09, 13:39
so expensive better to buy DBR at simei as price is gd and great for investment opportunity.

Uh.. simei at most is for renting out...
and when you try to sell it.. i'm afraid the value might not be there, much less if it's a 99lh.

Maybe you can go scan around the price history of condos in tampines or simei .and see whether the prices are still holding or have appreciated alot? Compared that to the D15,D9-11 ... and then you need to think about..if given only limited capital.. for only 1 condo.. which one would you choose.

Sometimes it's better to not buy and wait for a better price or location then to commit just because it is the only thing within your affordability range.

EBD
15-08-09, 15:04
Uh.. simei at most is for renting out...
and when you try to sell it.. i'm afraid the value might not be there, much less if it's a 99lh.

Maybe you can go scan around the price history of condos in tampines or simei .and see whether the prices are still holding or have appreciated alot? Compared that to the D15,D9-11 ... and then you need to think about..if given only limited capital.. for only 1 condo.. which one would you choose.

Sometimes it's better to not buy and wait for a better price or location then to commit just because it is the only thing within your affordability range.

Just checked all Tunamy's posts. All promoting DBR no matter what the discussion is about. Either the guys an agent/flipper, or bought without doing a whole lot of research on the market and is now seeking reassurances.


99yrs mass market condo in the suburbs only have one trend. If I was going to buy such a unit I would pick up an existing 10yr old unit where alot of the depreciation has already occurred. 99yr is alot like buying a car. by their very nature they are depreciating asset.


I also agree with waiting for the time and place. I think this madness will stop by year end when reality sets in, a few more years when the interest rates are up and people realise they did their sums wrong, then will be the time to go in and pick and choose.

bargain hunter
15-08-09, 15:27
hey EBD, I agree with you on this. I think large supply will coincide with higher interest rates but closer to the 2011-2013 period,best time to buy. :)

Tunamy's (likely an owner) posts are only making more people dislike/skeptical of DBR. Potentially got this kind of people staying there. Strange person, degrading DBR in all the threads. lol.


Just checked all Tunamy's posts. All promoting DBR no matter what the discussion is about. Either the guys an agent/flipper, or bought without doing a whole lot of research on the market and is now seeking reassurances.


99yrs mass market condo in the suburbs only have one trend. If I was going to buy such a unit I would pick up an existing 10yr old unit where alot of the depreciation has already occurred. 99yr is alot like buying a car. by their very nature they are depreciating asset.


I also agree with waiting for the time and place. I think this madness will stop by year end when reality sets in, a few more years when the interest rates are up and people realise they did their sums wrong, then will be the time to go in and pick and choose.

tanumy
15-08-09, 18:09
What u ppl talking abt. Look at centris recent one. When TOP such a high price. I strongly believe DBR got great potential due to singapore 4th Uni. Faster buy now.

EBD
15-08-09, 18:57
What u ppl talking abt. Look at centris recent one. When TOP such a high price. I strongly believe DBR got great potential due to singapore 4th Uni. Faster buy now.

So which one are you, flipper or marketing agent?

Just curious. All your posts are on DBR, trying your hardest to funnel people from other projects to DBR. It's so obvious it's not even funny.

Reporter
05-11-09, 12:38
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/common/mast_home.gif
Foreigners back in private home market
Foreign buyers are streaming back into the private homes market in growing numbers, especially those from China
Joyce Teo
The Straits Times
Thursday, 5 November 2009

http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/image/20091105/homesales-st.jpg
New research from property consultancy Savills Singapore shows foreigners accounted for 22.7% of private home sales in the third quarter. -- Photo: Desmond Foo, ST

Foreign buyers are streaming back into the private homes market in growing numbers, especially those from China.

New research from property consultancy Savills Singapore shows foreigners accounted for 22.7% of private home sales in the third quarter – above the 19.7% average since the start of 2000.

Buyers from China have dislodged those from India for the No. 3 spot in the rankings this year with a contribution of nearly 15% of total foreign purchases. This puts China just behind Indonesia in the second spot and Malaysia at No. 1.

In the past two years, India had been in third spot, but it has slipped to fourth.

Last year, buyers from China had moved up to the No. 4 spot, dislodging buyers from Britain.

Buyers from Myanmar featured more strongly, coming in at No. 8. They did not make it to the top 10 last year, and were 10th in 2007.

In the July to September period, foreign buyers – including permanent residents – lodged 2,448 private home caveats, a key step to buying a home.

This is up from 1,807 caveats in the second quarter and just 498 in the first, according to data compiled by Savills.

In all, permanent residents bought 1,389 homes in the third quarter.

DTZ said its preliminary data for the third quarter showed that foreigners accounted for about 25% of total sales, compared with about 33% during the boom of 2007.

The most popular project sought by foreigners was Sophia Residence, a project launched in July. Then came Caribbean at Keppel Bay, Ascentia Sky, One Devonshire and Viva.

Permanent residents preferred Melville Park, a 99-year leasehold condominium in Simei, the recently launched Trevista, followed by Caribbean at Keppel Bay.

About 54% of the purchases by China buyers were for resale homes, said DTZ head of South-east Asia research Chua Chor Hoon.

Like Malaysian buyers, buyers from China tend to prefer homes priced between $500,000 and $1 million.

One-fifth of them bought homes costing $1.5 million to as much as $5 million.

Indonesians, however, tended to go for higher priced projects, particularly those priced $1.5 million to $5 million.

They like properties located at Novena, River Valley and the Singapore River.

They had been the biggest group of foreign buyers, taking first place from 2004 to 2007, only to lose the spot to Malaysia during the recent economic crisis, said Ms Christine Sun, Savills Singapore’s senior research & consultancy manager.

The latest figures featured a substantial rise in the number of foreign transactions for higher-priced properties.

A total of 86 properties priced above $5 million were sold in the quarter, up from 27 in the second and a mere six in the first.

Also, there was a 60% rise in deals for projects costing between $1.5 million and $5 million. Demand from foreigners for mass market homes was little changed from the second quarter.

Savills said recent data showed that foreigners who are not permanent residents tend to buy more pricey projects.

This group was also more likely to buy homes in prime districts than permanent residents, said Ms Sun. ‘We are hearing that more of these super-rich mainland Chinese buyers have come in recent weeks to buy prime properties like the bungalows in Sentosa Cove.’

But the big influx of foreigners to the luxury market in the 2006-2007 boom has not quite returned, consultants said.

Still, support from regional buyers could rise further. Jones Lang LaSalle’s head of residential, Ms Jacqueline Wong, said the firm has had rising interest from new potential buyers from India, China and Russia in the past four months.

‘We are one of the places they are considering. They see Singapore as a safe haven,’ said Ms Wong.

A senior private banker at a foreign bank said: ‘We are seeing some clients consider buying a Singapore property as one of a string of homes they have around the world. Luxury homes have come down 30% from the peak, so they are better value now.’

DTZ’s Ms Chua said foreign buyers see the growing attraction of Singapore as a global city and expect prices to keep rising as the economy strengthens.

‘Prices of prime and luxurious units have not reached 2007 levels and there is still the potential of capital appreciation depending on the rate of economic recovery,’ she said.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii268/kcc0002/ForeignBuyersOnTheRise.jpg

jlrx
05-11-09, 12:42
So which one are you, flipper or marketing agent?

Just curious. All your posts are on DBR, trying your hardest to funnel people from other projects to DBR. It's so obvious it's not even funny.

Actually I didn't know much about Double Bay, but now I won't dare to buy Double Bay because I think there must be something wrong with it.

jlrx
05-11-09, 13:14
http://www.straitstimes.com/STI/STIMEDIA/common/mast_home.gif
Foreigners back in private home market
Foreign buyers are streaming back into the private homes market in growing numbers, especially those from China
Joyce Teo
The Straits Times
Thursday, 5 November 2009

Foreign buyers are streaming back into the private homes market in growing numbers, especially those from China.


Buyers from China have dislodged those from India for the No. 3 spot in the rankings this year with a contribution of nearly 15% of total foreign purchases. This puts China just behind Indonesia in the second spot and Malaysia at No. 1.

In the past two years, India had been in third spot, but it has slipped to fourth.

Last year, buyers from China had moved up to the No. 4 spot, dislodging buyers from Britain.

About 54% of the purchases by China buyers were for resale homes, said DTZ head of South-east Asia research Chua Chor Hoon.

Like Malaysian buyers, buyers from China tend to prefer homes priced between $500,000 and $1 million.

One-fifth of them bought homes costing $1.5 million to as much as $5 million.

This group was also more likely to buy homes in prime districts than permanent residents, said Ms Sun. ‘We are hearing that more of these super-rich mainland Chinese buyers have come in recent weeks to buy prime properties like the bungalows in Sentosa Cove.’

‘We are one of the places they are considering. They see Singapore as a safe haven,’ said Ms Wong.

This article is full of the word "China"! :scared-4:

Do you think we can get more investments from China if we use this lady to help us advertise?

http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/jiangqing.gif

Dear Rich Comrades!
Come! Come! Buy Singapore properties!
Singapore is safer than Hong Kong!

Reporter
10-12-09, 10:02
Has that last unit been sold?

Jonathan0503
25-07-11, 13:10
Passed by yesterday and saw that the development is almost completed.

Looks nice and impressive. They even on the lights at night now

devilplate
25-07-11, 14:47
Passed by yesterday and saw that the development is almost completed.

Looks nice and impressive. They even on the lights at night now
But the model looks much more impressive ....i m kinda dissapointed by the actual thing

Condo Kaiser
25-07-11, 16:45
haha yeah.. this is one of those development which has really nice artist impression but the final product looks less impressive...

have to take into consideration it been close to other developments... usually looks nicer when they are by themselves... (artist impression will never include neighbouring buildings... unless it's MBS haha)

dtrax
25-07-11, 16:50
Heng that time never buy..
Final product according to artist impression:

http://www.propertyvizion.com/data/3/devonshire.jpg

devilplate
25-07-11, 17:05
haha yeah.. this is one of those development which has really nice artist impression but the final product looks less impressive...

have to take into consideration it been close to other developments... usually looks nicer when they are by themselves... (artist impression will never include neighbouring buildings... unless it's MBS haha)
I remember the model display vy spacious landscaping.....but the actual site looks so cramp now.....:beats-me-man:

Condo Kaiser
25-07-11, 17:48
I remember the model display vy spacious landscaping.....but the actual site looks so cramp now.....:beats-me-man:

this is called "models are not built to scale"... at that time of launch... developer where got care abt trueful representation???

garden make as big as possible.... building make as skinny as possible... then the model will look like at lot of spacious landscaping...

now with all the tall building in the area surrounding it... surely the garden will look small....

which is why people pay a premium for tall condos which are close to amenities yet not over crowded by other tall buildings... (think newton one... martin place residence... Rivergate.... etc)

devilplate
25-07-11, 17:52
this is called "models are not built to scale"... at that time of launch... developer where got care abt trueful representation???

garden make as big as possible.... building make as skinny as possible... then the model will look like at lot of spacious landscaping...

now with all the tall building in the area surrounding it... surely the garden will look small....

which is why people pay a premium for tall condos which are close to amenities yet not over crowded by other tall buildings... (think newton one... martin place residence... Rivergate.... etc)
Martin plc n rivergate both not too far off from models.....both of them stll got vy spacious landscaping:D

Condo Kaiser
25-07-11, 17:58
Rivergate got alot of units... so no choice need space... otherwise swimming pool become sardine can.... but i love the facade of rivergate man...

i say so many times.. martin place is a gem.... haha.... too bad have to walk such a long slope to get to the shops below it.... if only got travelator.... haha.... or buggy service....

devilplate
25-07-11, 18:04
Rivergate got alot of units... so no choice need space... otherwise swimming pool become sardine can.... but i love the facade of rivergate man...

i say so many times.. martin place is a gem.... haha.... too bad have to walk such a long slope to get to the shops below it.... if only got travelator.... haha.... or buggy service....
agree martin plc goodie:D pool looks huge n nice and most units r quite unblocked....comfy distance to neighbouring projects.."also agree rgate got too many units n feels abit like mass market....3xxunits will b ideal

I wud hf bot one At mp few mths bck...cm4 kills all my buying interest

hopeful
25-07-11, 18:07
Martin plc n rivergate both not too far off from models.....both of them stll got vy spacious landscaping:D

a bit disappointed actually. the actual building looks short and fat as compared to model/brochure pic tall and slim.

But confirmed flood free even if have global warming and antartica melts.

devilplate
25-07-11, 18:13
a bit disappointed actually. the actual building looks short and fat as compared to model/brochure pic tall and slim.

But confirmed flood free even if have global warming and antartica melts.
Not too bad la...u shd go n take a look at 1devonshire....whahaha

I suggest u keep ur unit....:2cents: :D

Jonathan0503
26-07-11, 08:34
But the model looks much more impressive ....i m kinda dissapointed by the actual thing

Maybe because it's still not 100% completed, with all the construction materials and mess still lying around, and the building facade, glass windows all not cleaned, etc.

I'm sure it will look much better when it's fully completed.

BTW, I don't own a unit here, in case you guys wonder why I keep talking good about this development:D I wish I had though....