Reflections at Keppel Bay (D4, 99 Years, Keppel Land) [Archive] - Page 3 - Condo Forum Singapore Property Review Mortgage Loan Buy Rent Sell Real Estate

8kenshin

02-02-12, 19:43

I believe haha... that time got agent sms low 1.5kpsf for golf course view >10flr urgently selling. Maybe now lower to 1.4k+ psf already. Is 2rm or 2+S? Larger 2+S quantum no cheap hor.. large quantum units, you can see "firesale" rates almost anywhere coz easily >2-3mil

If got, p.m me please! If real, a good buy as Carribbean psf the same and probably a cinch to rent out at $4-5K p.m..

I'm skeptical though...I saw any number of "Sail best view $1,800psf!!!!" ads only to be quoted $2,6000 psf when I called because "that apartment had already been sold". Hopefully the new rules are keeping agents honest, but unless we some lose their licensed, I take agent marketing with a pinch of salt.

howgozit

02-02-12, 20:19

I take agent marketing with a pinch of salt.

How about a pound of salt instead ?... hehe

richie$$$

02-02-12, 20:22

The $1m drop in #21-78 is neither accurate nor true, more a technical issue of 2 processes going on at the same time, another eg is #14-78 lodged in Nov 2011, option was taken in August and completed on the same day the caveat is lodged, neither units are sold at loss and I wouldn't say there's much profits in it as well. More than 60% of 25 (Tower 1A) are sold. I cannot provide more details of transactions for confidentiality purpose.
Bs. Check with agents. The high floors n larger units r at discounts.
Owners just want 2 run

agents who play sentiments of buyers get screwed later. C who is faster 2 close discounted units.

richie$$$

02-02-12, 20:26

I paid n checked realis. Dates of transactions r different
Nt error. Realis shows everything unit number n sqm owner in private or hdb

richie$$$

02-02-12, 20:30

2+ s = 2 + store.
Those contractors smart alecs. Go put 1 aircon on top of d other block window view. Damn siao le.

8kenshin

02-02-12, 20:35

At $1,400psf just PM me guys!

I just rented out a 2brm at Carribbean at over $5K pm (7 weeks on market) and am willing to take a bet on being able to get similar here.

A 2brm is not my dream home, but i can make the sums add up. PM me!

richie$$$

02-02-12, 20:36

If you are so keen to know how to make the pillar looks nice, assuming you own or consider buying a unit there, why don't you talk to an interior designer?
Hello any1 here. Thot all property experts here or all ahpek ah sor here
N some say many yrs property investment.

This forum no share? Pillar in bathroom ? Wht do u do. Towel hook? Draw dragon ? Dress up roman pillar? Still nxt 2 bathtub. So come out frm bathtub use as handle.

richie$$$

02-02-12, 20:37

i think you are right./... you should color the pillar with bright colors like PInk... and it is a sight to behold..

This pillar will sell in JAPAN..

*NSFW*... Fertility Festival...weird

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hJrzWLia70o/S7lq6rA43XI/AAAAAAAAAZM/_yjSLa__I6I/s1600/SNV36159.JPG

This idea nt bad. Hehe.

iceflight

02-02-12, 20:41

Bs. Check with agents. The high floors n larger units r at discounts.
Owners just want 2 run

agents who play sentiments of buyers get screwed later. C who is faster 2 close discounted units.

Check with agents?????? discounts????? well I'm talking only about Tower 1A, (25). The entire tower that was bought by the Taiwanese lady.

richie$$$

02-02-12, 22:11

i talking in general..
block 23. gd deal. dun sit in frt of ur pC n type

burnt me out last few days viewing. prices can ask way up or go way down
nice view no pillar gd buy? pillar easily worth $3-5k if measured use psf LOL

time's up for financing?

Heng

03-02-12, 05:42

Check with agents?????? discounts????? well I'm talking only about Tower 1A, (25). The entire tower that was bought by the Taiwanese lady.

Many agents marketing for her : various discounts promised : high prices that you mention are duplicates, etc part of deceit to make prospects / buyers believe they got a good bargain ? since $1m drop for unit happens only in block 25 ??? Your explanation is so vague that it is hard to follow.

If only you can explain clearly.....what actually happened.....

Thus I tend to believe the 2012 caveat showing price drop for prime unit on high floor ....drop to below $2,000 psf

I am more inclined to believe the prices shown in attached from URA are true because they are psf submitted by developer to URA

The numbers of units with developer ... competition drive prices offered by owners down... especially units/s views blocked by other units....
below 11th floor cannot see past the villa blocks....

Sea facing but NO seaview because trees have grown to above 15th floor ? standing on the 15th skybridge between 25 & 23 can still see trees blocking view...

hopeful

03-02-12, 06:04

Many agents marketing for her : various discounts promised : high prices that you mention are duplicates, etc part of deceit to make prospects / buyers believe they got a good bargain ? since $1m drop for unit happens only in block 25 ??? Your explanation is so vague that it is hard to follow.

If only you can explain clearly.....what actually happened.....

....................

i already explained clearly why the $1mil drop happened, duplicate caveats which you do not believe. even after explaining, you say 2 years already on, they must have already fixed the system. you trust system instead of own cow sense. Even say to the extent like "hard to believe, but it is true".

Up to now, question directed at you "do you admit that you are wrong" still have no response. saying that you are wrong is really hard isnt it ;).

you may know Reflections in detail, but your analytical skills are lacking in some areas.

Rosy

03-02-12, 07:48

Let him be. You had done your part.

I am more interested to find out good deals and profit from it

SpinCity

03-02-12, 09:14

Hello any1 here. Thot all property experts here or all ahpek ah sor here
N some say many yrs property investment.

This forum no share? Pillar in bathroom ? Wht do u do. Towel hook? Draw dragon ? Dress up roman pillar? Still nxt 2 bathtub. So come out frm bathtub use as handle.
Well, this forum is definitely for information sharing
if you own or are looking to buy a unit there and the pillar does concerns you, guess most of the forumers here will be more than happy to share their ideas with you. But at the end of the day, it's your money so it may be prudent to talk to an interior designer for you million-dollar purchase

If your sole goal is to prove that the pillar is a incurable disease to this development by fishing out people's ideas and find faults in them, you may be just wasting people's time

So what's your intention?

Heng

03-02-12, 09:26

Let him be. You had done your part.

I am more interested to find out good deals and profit from it

Thanks. What is your idea of "good deal " in Reflections ?

Rosy

03-02-12, 09:29

Thanks. What is your idea of "good deal " in Reflections ?

high floor above 20th floor with seaview at 1700-1800psf. Is it realistic? prefer 3bedder.

august

03-02-12, 09:36

high floor above 20th floor with seaview at 1700-1800psf. Is it realistic? prefer 3bedder.

Possible if there is market correction of 15 to 20%.

DC33_2008

03-02-12, 10:14

How likely will market correction 15-20% in the next six months? O, 50 or 100% chance?
Possible if there is market correction of 15 to 20%

Rosy

03-02-12, 10:20

How likely will market correction 15-20% in the next six months? O, 50 or 100% chance?

Let the market forces/government measures dictate.

I will reassess the market condition again before taking the plunge if the price drop to my target price. If it does not drop at all, it is fine and move on from there and look for other opprtunities.

richie$$$

03-02-12, 19:52

Well, this forum is definitely for information sharing
if you own or are looking to buy a unit there and the pillar does concerns you, guess most of the forumers here will be more than happy to share their ideas with you. But at the end of the day, it's your money so it may be prudent to talk to an interior designer for you million-dollar purchase

If your sole goal is to prove that the pillar is a incurable disease to this development by fishing out people's ideas and find faults in them, you may be just wasting people's time

So what's your intention?

hello no ideas ? next pls.
20 lines 2 tell me no ideas.

buy n cheong la. if nt interested why write here. r u agent? if so gt some more gd deal or nt.

last 2 wks i saw 6 flr villa askg $1700 can go down ..agent said owner chow if mk $100k profit.

SpinCity

03-02-12, 21:41

hello no ideas ? next pls.
20 lines 2 tell me no ideas.

buy n cheong la. if nt interested why write here. r u agent? if so gt some more gd deal or nt.

last 2 wks i saw 6 flr villa askg $1700 can go down ..agent said owner chow if mk $100k profit.
You have to understand that no one owes you an idea
If you are really interested, get yourself a unit without those pillars; there are plenty of them in the Reflection, as long as you can afford it
If a BMW 3 series is too small for you, get a 7 series or go for other brands; it won't help you at all to get a car that fits your need by complaining that BMW is a bad brand

richie$$$

03-02-12, 23:52

You have to understand that no one owes you an idea
If you are really interested, get yourself a unit without those pillars; there are plenty of them in the Reflection, as long as you can afford it
If a BMW 3 series is too small for you, get a 7 series or go for other brands; it won't help you at all to get a car that fits your need by complaining that BMW is a bad brand

U Dun seem 2 understand - 4/6 each for will c pillars each flr. 41 flrs. How many units hv pillars.
Hello 80:20 rule
This is a sharing forum. Nthg 2 share just ship out
Smart Alec. U must hv a unit there. Izit? Fm start there r comments on pillars
Wtf sweeping it under carpet ? won't help. Love d view bt most spend more time in unit. B practical. Trying 2 convince myself how 2 tackle dis pillar thingy
Cant I. Save ur preaches.

Heng

04-02-12, 06:35

last 2 wks i saw 6 flr villa askg $1700 can go down ..

Now there are agents asking more reasonable psf and absolute quantum.

The evidence of prices dropping can also be seen in the 2012 URA data:

2012 : $1,833 psf : URA site : below $1,987 psf of the first 2012 caveat

Units Below $1.5 m : there are even more units not shown in screenshot

Below $1,500 psf sub-sales

Developer psf at $1,692 psf in December 2011

Many Sub-sale Units at below $1.5 m in Dec 2011
=========================================

Any member of public can see subsale unit done at $1.52m or $1,502 psf for a 1,012 sq ft unit in December 2011.
--------------------------------------
Other examples can be seen from the attached screenshots from URA data :

$1,692 psf from Developer in December 2011 : I believe with the recent launch of more units in December 2011, psf will be even more attractive.

SpinCity

04-02-12, 08:19

U Dun seem 2 understand - 4/6 each for will c pillars each flr. 41 flrs. How many units hv pillars.
Hello 80:20 rule
This is a sharing forum. Nthg 2 share just ship out
Smart Alec. U must hv a unit there. Izit? Fm start there r comments on pillars
Wtf sweeping it under carpet ? won't help. Love d view bt most spend more time in unit. B practical. Trying 2 convince myself how 2 tackle dis pillar thingy
Cant I. Save ur preaches.
Do you want to buy up the whole development? If so, the pillars may be a concern to you
If you only want to buy one or a few units there, just go for those layouts without pillars. with a unit without a pillar, you can enjoy the view while stay inside, can't you? why do you try to convince yourself to settle with something you don't like? in this case, the 80:20 rule does not apply to you at all. Pillars in other ppl's units are none of your business.
Do you a favor, in case you have never used an interior designer: call a few ID shop to make appointments, bring the floor plan with you, and discuss with the interior designer on your concerns regarding the pillar. this shall be free. After meeting a few IDs you shall know how to deal with you. SERIOUSLY, I REALLY DOUBT THAT YOU ARE INTERESTED IN BUYING A UNIT THERE.
However, I can do you a favor: you can mirror up the pillar so everything you look at it, you won't see the ugly pillar but the handsome richie$$; or, you can hang some paintings to decorate it. Worry about drilling a hole on the structure? Go to those art gallery to buy hanging tracks which can be fixed on the ceiling, this will solve your problem
By the way, my profession and whether I own a unit there is or not none of your business as I don't try to sell to or buy from forumers here, you can save it.
Oh, do you know that you are not "SHARING" anything as it is no secret that there are pillars in some of the units in the Reflection. Instead, you threw a question and ask for "FAVORS" from forumers here. Hope you understand

devilplate

04-02-12, 08:51

this pillar thingy is so amusing....

dun like pillar JUST DONT BUY LA

move on la cmon.....wakakakaka

richie$$$

04-02-12, 08:53

Agent spin

80:20 definitely I buy d ones with pillars if I want 2. why go 4 20 if limited units

U damn naggy 4 an agent
Save it
No wonder interest is less n price instead of going up flat.
Read my earlier posts I thot of smtg
u worry others steal ur ideas damn Kiasu
Just like moron B

Do you want to buy up the whole development? If so, the pillars may be a concern to you
If you only want to buy one or a few units there, just go for those layouts without pillars. with a unit without a pillar, you can enjoy the view while stay inside, can't you? why do you try to convince yourself to settle with something you don't like? in this case, the 80:20 rule does not apply to you at all. Pillars in other ppl's units are none of your business.
Do you a favor, in case you have never used an interior designer: call a few ID shop to make appointments, bring the floor plan with you, and discuss with the interior designer on your concerns regarding the pillar. this shall be free. After meeting a few IDs you shall know how to deal with you. SERIOUSLY, I REALLY DOUBT THAT YOU ARE INTERESTED IN BUYING A UNIT THERE.
However, I can do you a favor: you can mirror up the pillar so everything you look at it, you won't see the ugly pillar but the handsome richie$$; or, you can hang some paintings to decorate it. Worry about drilling a hole on the structure? Go to those art gallery to buy hanging tracks which can be fixed on the ceiling, this will solve your problem
By the way, my profession and whether I own a unit there is or not none of your business as I don't try to sell to or buy from forumers here, you can save it.
Oh, do you know that you are not "SHARING" anything as it is no secret that there are pillars in some of the units in the Reflection. Instead, you threw a question and ask for "FAVORS" from forumers here. Hope you understand

richie$$$

04-02-12, 08:54

Damn calculative wht favor.
Giving is free.

richie$$$

04-02-12, 09:10

wht's wrg wth d owners
some bght ard $1400psf sell ard $1500psf
4 dis project, make <$100K after stamp duty

CM came out wrg timing.
i c mkt going up soon.mayb owners cant hold?

i hv d listing of all units nos..cannt post here
wld want 2 share
e.g. 02-3X bght $2500+ psf in 08/2007
04-9X bght $1400+psf 08/2007
06-5X bght $1300+ psf 08/2007

08-8X $1700+psf 09/2008

29-9X $1900+psf 01/2012 gd buy nice unit no.

Now there are agents asking more reasonable psf and absolute quantum.

The evidence of prices dropping can also be seen in the 2012 URA data:

2012 : $1,833 psf : URA site : below $1,987 psf of the first 2012 caveat

Units Below $1.5 m : there are even more units not shown in screenshot

Below $1,500 psf sub-sales

Developer psf at $1,692 psf in December 2011

Many Sub-sale Units at below $1.5 m in Dec 2011
=========================================

Any member of public can see subsale unit done at $1.52m or $1,502 psf for a 1,012 sq ft unit in December 2011.
--------------------------------------
Other examples can be seen from the attached screenshots from URA data :

$1,692 psf from Developer in December 2011 : I believe with the recent launch of more units in December 2011, psf will be even more attractive.

devilplate

04-02-12, 09:13

wht's wrg wth d owners
some bght ard $1400psf sell ard $1500psf
4 dis project, make <$100K after stamp duty

CM came out wrg timing.
i c mkt going up soon.mayb owners cant hold?

hey m i seeing things correctly?

u actually tink mkt is gg up??? y suddenly turned from a bear to a bull?

richie$$$

04-02-12, 09:14

wtf

read article tht ABSD at 20%

siao la..like tht mkt resale standstill or drop.

who's d smart alec....

Heng

04-02-12, 09:15

richie$$$

04-02-12, 09:21

hey m i seeing things correctly?

u actually tink mkt is gg up??? y suddenly turned from a bear to a bull?
Wtf situations changed idiot or retards dun change.

SpinCity

04-02-12, 09:23

richie$$$

04-02-12, 09:25

Agent claims only very few units bought by owners at below $1.5m.

Can easily find a hundred such units

One unit was close to just $1m

See some extracts from URA ,,etc.

Thus have to be patient and meet more agents in order to have good deals.
Agents another bunch of idiots. No resale n trying 2 use same tactic 2 screw sellers n buyers. Nowadays ppl just pay $80 n can download all transactions spelling out unit numbers owner private/ hdb sqm Psf date transaction

$80 only leh. Millions $$ purchase. Peanuts.
Some more change of rules for agents. Government watching those guys after bedok incident. Hiring students to queue.

richie$$$

04-02-12, 09:30

Complain about the pillar so much yet still want to buy one; it's hard to think of a reason why a sane person want to jeopardize himself and his money so much. Please stop talking nonsense, just go buy somewhere else
Aunty u hv a problem with that. Insane ones make $$$
Throwing ideas here will make project hotter. Kiasu Morons calculative

Others laying small blueish glossy tiles on pillar make it nice? Grey 2 blend wth metallic finish.

devilplate

04-02-12, 09:31

Wtf situations changed idiot or retards dun change.
wat had changed???

SpinCity

04-02-12, 09:34

Damn calculative wht favor.
Giving is free.
Giving is free to those who are genuine and appreciate, not to those with hidden agenda

SpinCity

04-02-12, 09:38

Aunty u hv a problem with that. Insane ones make $$$
Throwing ideas here will make project hotter. Kiasu Morons calculative

Others laying small blueish glossy tiles on pillar make it nice? Grey 2 blend wth metallic finish.
Wo, you are the upcoming scolding and cursing champ!
Since you admit that you are a money making insane one, that's fine
Btw, since you can make money, go to see a ID for your question and contribute professional ideas to this forum

devilplate

04-02-12, 09:38

damn obvious he looking to buy one.....but den trying to use pillar as a bargaining chip....

he so smart wat....pillar duno how to decorate mah? those pillar in the toilet not tat bad rite.....i wud just leave it undecorated.....as simple as tat

richie$$$

04-02-12, 09:40

wat had changed???
Now everything is as predicted

States gd news will continue

Rates confirmed low

Politic stability in east Asia elections no change government

Iran states nt happening

More Terrorists nabbed great 4 peace

Europe expected worst. Wht else. Like moron said every1 dies. How? Close shop. Close the EU countries like close stalls. Nt happening

richie$$$

04-02-12, 09:42

Pillar is gd feng shui if placed in right place

Wrong place an idiot also knw nt so gd feng shui
Pillar wont pull price down. Price will only go up.
Now use pillar to negotiate down hello any1 home

Tis project talks view la.

richie$$$

04-02-12, 09:43

View will diff d prices

richie$$$

04-02-12, 10:10

Wo, you are the upcoming scolding and cursing champ!
Since you admit that you are a money making insane one, that's fine
Btw, since you can make money, go to see a ID for your question and contribute professional ideas to this forum
Hello Aunty start preparing lunch
U dun speak no1 knows u r mute

Hello b4 talk 2 ID also nd 2 c wht mkt is doing

Fk who talked abt mkg $$$ u Tie everything up ah soh.

DC33_2008

04-02-12, 10:32

Turn the pillar into an art piece which blend into the theme of the condo.
Pillar is gd feng shui if placed in right place

Wrong place an idiot also knw nt so gd feng shui
Pillar wont pull price down. Price will only go up.
Now use pillar to negotiate down hello any1 home

Tis project talks view la.

SpinCity

04-02-12, 10:54

Hello Aunty start preparing lunch
U dun speak no1 knows u r mute

Hello b4 talk 2 ID also nd 2 c wht mkt is doing

Fk who talked abt mkg $$$ u Tie everything up ah soh.
What did your ID suggest? Why don't you share in the forum? If the recommendation is not satisfactory, you can get other IDs' ideas, too

Before you do that, you may want to learn to talk intellectually and civilizedly, and more importantly, be polite when you ask for favors

richie$$$

04-02-12, 11:02

Wtf u always talk abt favors.
Only ah soh talks abt favors

Get it out from ur favor
U dun hv just move on.

What did your ID suggest? Why don't you share in the forum? If the recommendation is not satisfactory, you can get other IDs' ideas, too

Before you do that, you may want to learn to talk intellectually and civilizedly, and more importantly, be polite when you ask for favors

richie$$$

04-02-12, 11:02

richie$$$

04-02-12, 11:06

Go pay $80 realis. Worth it
Check online

richie$$$

04-02-12, 12:10

Turn the pillar into an art piece which blend into the theme of the condo.

earlier thot of dragon going ard pillar, like temple

simple - plaster 2 roman pillar

square it nt 4 pillar in bathroom - works 4 master bedroom. if square the 1 in bathroom, cant walk over 2 window o other end of tub

howgozit

04-02-12, 14:50

earlier thot of dragon going ard pillar, like temple

simple - plaster 2 roman pillar

square it nt 4 pillar in bathroom - works 4 master bedroom. if square the 1 in bathroom, cant walk over 2 window o other end of tub

Would appreciate you share if you have the solution to the pillar problem. The pillar is indeed a nagging point.

For some units they seem wider than 1m to me like the one I saw in Twr 2B (1432sqft) taking a huge chunk of the corner in the master bedrm.

Whereas another unit I saw the in Twr 3A the pillars seem to be slimmer. Could be my eyes playing tricks bcoz this unit is bigger at 1765sqft.

Reflections otherwise is simply beautiful and very elegant.

Thanks

DC33_2008

04-02-12, 15:22

Mirror panelling may not be a bad idea or timber panelling with a book shelves if there is a wall next to it.
Would appreciate you share if you have the solution to the pillar problem. The pillar is indeed a nagging point.

For some units they seem wider than 1m to me like the one I saw in Twr 2B (1432sqft) taking a huge chunk of the corner in the master bedrm.

Whereas another unit I saw the in Twr 3A the pillars seem to be slimmer. Could be my eyes playing tricks bcoz this unit is bigger at 1765sqft.

Reflections otherwise is simply beautiful and very elegant.

Thanks

DC33_2008

04-02-12, 15:24

Saw the asking rental here. Rental yield not very high.

howgozit

04-02-12, 17:30

Mirror panelling may not be a bad idea or timber panelling with a book shelves if there is a wall next to it.

Yah timber panelling sounds good....

Mirror panelling... haha wife surely complain.

Mirrors on the pillar will be curved outwards ie. convex. Reflections will look expanded.... fat.

Take a look at this unit here, pillar quite jialat....

http://www.singaporeexpats.com/singapore-property-pictures/floorplan/reflections-at-keppel-bay/C12c.jpg

http://www.singaporeexpats.com/singapore-property-pictures/floorplan/reflections-at-keppel-bay/C12c.jpg

DC33_2008

04-02-12, 17:37

Mirror panel will form a box.
Yah timber panelling sounds good....

Mirror panelling... haha wife surely complain.

Mirrors on the pillar will be curved outwards ie. convex. Reflections will look expanded.... fat.

Take a look at this unit here, pillar quite jialat....

http://www.singaporeexpats.com/singapore-property-pictures/floorplan/reflections-at-keppel-bay/C12c.jpg

http://www.singaporeexpats.com/singapore-property-pictures/floorplan/reflections-at-keppel-bay/C12c.jpg

howgozit

04-02-12, 17:38

Mirror panel will form a box.

Check out this pillar in the master bed room

DC33_2008

04-02-12, 17:42

The column is about 1.2m. Timber panelling will be quite cosy.
Check out this pillar in the master bed room

SpinCity

04-02-12, 18:19

The column is about 1.2m. Timber panelling will be quite cosy.
Timber panels with embedded mirrors, can add some ledgers for photo frames

reuters

04-02-12, 20:01

Saw a picture of a boutique hotel with a pillar inside the bedroom. They covered it with mirror-mosaic tiles of different shades. Very nice!

Another way to dress it up is to make it a statement piece instead of seeing it as a flaw. can always wall-paper it.

richie$$$

04-02-12, 21:54

Would appreciate you share if you have the solution to the pillar problem. The pillar is indeed a nagging point.

For some units they seem wider than 1m to me like the one I saw in Twr 2B (1432sqft) taking a huge chunk of the corner in the master bedrm.

Whereas another unit I saw the in Twr 3A the pillars seem to be slimmer. Could be my eyes playing tricks bcoz this unit is bigger at 1765sqft.

Reflections otherwise is simply beautiful and very elegant.

Thanks

make d pillar nice n wa la ...price shoot shoot shoot up..
nice interior gorgeous sea facng land

this is not d same as east coast
only set back is u will see walruses n sea lions in pool not enuf pool
anyway i dun hang out in pool much
bt tenants will.....

yes some pillars in some towers smaller i/o 1m wide only 1 ft wide
those better units.
didnt buy then as dun know how 2 c pillar big /small
agents oso dunno

richie$$$

04-02-12, 21:57

Mirror panelling may not be a bad idea or timber panelling with a book shelves if there is a wall next to it.

nt bad
pillar in living room can use as bookshelves.
dampen pillar effect..u can b ID.

richie$$$

04-02-12, 21:59

lifeline

05-02-12, 00:00

goggled some ideas for that round pillar in room:

http://tinyurl.com/6sg9764
http://tinyurl.com/7mgwdc6
http://tinyurl.com/87hg2k6
http://tinyurl.com/727ht2c
http://tinyurl.com/7c7bb6m

just emailed my friends who bought 1, 2 and 3br.

orangeroad80

05-02-12, 01:41

Hi,

Having bought an unit in reflections, I become v curious on what would be surrounding developments around Harbourfront precinct, not sure abt you, as I am hoping for good capital appreciation in 5 yrs time. Below are the future developments I am aware of, anyone are aware any additional ones ?

1. 2 plots of residential besides caribbean, and 1 plot of residential in keppel island. Plot 3 seems to be under the design Daniel Libeskind and would be low floor. Not sure when will it be launched - this year 2012 ? Hopefully launched at 2300-2500 psf and abv.
2. Bay Hotel opening in 1st quarter 2012
3. Skyline residences and Foresta launched, at avg psf 1900 & abv
4. Harbour Suites Condo
5. Keppel golf lease run out in yr 2022, not sure what is the future development in that area, heard from agents it's likely residential
6. There would be a bridge link from plot 3 and plot 4 to harbour front, so residents from reflections can have a better walk to MRT in the future. Not sure when will it be built ?
7. A underground tunnel from sentosa entrance/exit to kampong bahru area will ease traffic around this area
8. Small land around telok blangah mrt area, not sure will it further utilised ?
9. I always wonder why the area in Seah Inn road, food center, bus interchange and the 2 big carparks are not developed. It is a plot of land with huge potential as there is a direct link to MRT.

Any gurus know anymore other than the above ?

testtest

05-02-12, 09:25

lifeline

05-02-12, 09:28

some are very nice!!!

there are lots more... just google and switch on image mode.
i just chose the nicer ones with variety of ideas.

DC33_2008

05-02-12, 09:37

IMO, the southern part of Singapore, ie. D1,2, 5, 7, have great potential in the next 25 years.
Hi,

Having bought an unit in reflections, I become v curious on what would be surrounding developments around Harbourfront precinct, not sure abt you, as I am hoping for good capital appreciation in 5 yrs time. Below are the future developments I am aware of, anyone are aware any additional ones ?

1. 2 plots of residential besides caribbean, and 1 plot of residential in keppel island. Plot 3 seems to be under the design Daniel Libeskind and would be low floor. Not sure when will it be launched - this year 2012 ? Hopefully launched at 2300-2500 psf and abv.
2. Bay Hotel opening in 1st quarter 2012
3. Skyline residences and Foresta launched, at avg psf 1900 & abv
4. Harbour Suites Condo
5. Keppel golf lease run out in yr 2022, not sure what is the future development in that area, heard from agents it's likely residential
6. There would be a bridge link from plot 3 and plot 4 to harbour front, so residents from reflections can have a better walk to MRT in the future. Not sure when will it be built ?
7. A underground tunnel from sentosa entrance/exit to kampong bahru area will ease traffic around this area
8. Small land around telok blangah mrt area, not sure will it further utilised ?
9. I always wonder why the area in Seah Inn road, food center, bus interchange and the 2 big carparks are not developed. It is a plot of land with huge potential as there is a direct link to MRT.

Any gurus know anymore other than the above ?

richie$$$

05-02-12, 10:18

glf course moving?
port moving?

richie$$$

05-02-12, 10:25

glf course moving?
port moving?

DC33_2008

05-02-12, 10:25

This is the start of the growth potential in this region. D3 and 4 too. :D
glf course moving?
port moving?

orangeroad80

05-02-12, 22:50

Keppel club lease end 2021, I guess that's why keppel land 5 yrs ago during reflections' launch, priced bay and sea view units all 1.9k psf & abv and golf facing units 1.5k psf & abv, a minimum difference of 400k psf, it's all part of the plan. The bay view is a permanent view and confirmed unblocked, the golf view only has a life span of 10 yrs and not sure what lies ahead, likely to be high rise buildings which will block skyline residences.

I read from URA, Tanjong port lease end 2027 and i think it's likely to be part of new URA Master plan. But I think it will benefit more of pinnacle flats, sentosa cove's viewing directions, than reflections.

Anyone know if there will be a direct link from harbour front mrt to tanjong pagar area or bayfront mrt ? I think this will def impact capital appreciation.

dtrax

05-02-12, 23:04

You're guess is as good as my guess. My guess is it will be probably be till when the port lease ends in 2027. Here is an old article:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6823614251_c09d91381c.jpg

Keppel club lease end 2021, I guess that's why keppel land 5 yrs ago during reflections' launch, priced bay and sea view units all 1.9k psf & abv and golf facing units 1.5k psf & abv, a minimum difference of 400k psf, it's all part of the plan. The bay view is a permanent view and confirmed unblocked, the golf view only has a life span of 10 yrs and not sure what lies ahead, likely to be high rise buildings which will block skyline residences.

I read from URA, Tanjong port lease end 2027 and i think it's likely to be part of new URA Master plan. But I think it will benefit more of pinnacle flats, sentosa cove's viewing directions, than reflections.

Anyone know if there will be a direct link from harbour front mrt to tanjong pagar area or bayfront mrt ? I think this will def impact capital appreciation.

Heng

06-02-12, 12:23

Keppel club lease end 2021, I guess that's why keppel land 5 yrs ago during reflections' launch, priced bay and sea view units all 1.9k psf & abv and golf facing units 1.5k psf & abv, a minimum difference of 400k psf, it's all part of the plan. The bay view is a permanent view and confirmed unblocked, the golf view only has a life span of 10 yrs and not sure what lies ahead, likely to be high rise buildings which will block skyline residences..
---------------------------------------------

Your "golf facing unit 1.5k psf & abv " means about 100 units without any view ? that is, facing other blocks ????

Examples are those below #11 ? I have seen #09-XX caveated at less than 1.5k psf.

Below $1,400 psf for #09- golf view ?? see attached

Heng

06-02-12, 12:29

---------------------------------------------

Your "golf facing unit 1.5k psf & abv " means about 100 units without any view ? that is, facing other blocks ????

Examples are those below #11 ? I have seen #09-XX caveated at less than 1.5k psf.

Below $1,400 psf for #09- golf view ?? see attached

forgot attachment showing $1,333 psf or $1.12 m : golf view

2011 caveat

orangeroad80

06-02-12, 14:53

Hmm....something fishy.

I myself bought a 2 bedder unit in reflections in Tower 3A during 2007 launch, so I am familar with the launch prices in 3A. I manage to glance at the 2007 developers price in the SLA strata for stack 89 and 93 for 8th,9th,10th and 11th floor 2 bedders. If my memory did not fail me, it was never this price range during 2007 launch. Example, I recall in SLA strata, #10-93 (Tower 3A) golf facing unit in SLA strata is $1,550 psf, around $1.28m - 1.3m and stack 89 units bay viewing units 10th to 14th floor are all $1,950 psf & abv during 07 launch.

Hmm...the 840 2 bedder I saw in URA transacted in Jul/Aug 2011 was 1,713 psf at 1.438 m instead of 1.1 m in your screenshot. Any error ?

Any owners here bought a 2 bedroom from developer during 2007 launch for $1100-$1300 psf ? (I don't mean 3 bedrooms, i think 3 bedrooms may be possible due to larger unit size). Anyone able to verify the below screenshot with the SLA strata values ?

forgot attachment showing $1,333 psf or $1.12 m : golf view

2011 caveat

Heng

06-02-12, 15:18

URA records : in 2011 ....$1.35m...upwards for 2 bedroom

Psf ranges from $1,514 psf

2 bedroom launch in 2007 was around $1.2m ....Friend is not selling .. but trying to rent it out ......still no takers for rental since T O P 3 months ago...... He is keeping it because he knows he got it cheaper than most others who did not bargain with Developer.

orangeroad80

06-02-12, 17:43

The URA screenshot is correct, but I was just surprised by the previous screenshot you show. From what I know, even the lowest 3rd floor tower unit, #03-93 2 bedder facing golf costs 1.2m and above, psf > 1400 during 07 launch. That's why I am very surprised when I saw both higher floors 09-93 and 09-89 costs only $1.1m, at $1300 psf. And stack 89 has a different facing.

If you are able to show 07 selling price of stack 89 and 93 10th-14th floor units, I will be able to tell whether the data is real or fake. Because I bought 2 of such units , and I just let go one of them in Dec 11 nearing to 1800 psf for a golf facing unit, even after ABSD is announced.

It is possible to sell 1700-1800 psf for a golf facing unit, and 2200 & abv for a sea view/bay view unit, so a message for the the owners here, we have already hold for 4-5 yrs, stay firm with your prices. Water town is already selling at 1200-1400 psf, skyline and foresta are selling 1900 avg. 1700-1800 psf is considered a steal for an iconic TOPed project like reflections, even if it's golf view.

URA records : in 2011 ....$1.35m...upwards for 2 bedroom

Psf ranges from $1,514 psf

2 bedroom launch in 2007 was around $1.2m ....Friend is not selling .. but trying to rent it out ......still no takers for rental since T O P 3 months ago...... He is keeping it because he knows he got it cheaper than most others who did not bargain with Developer.

orangeroad80

06-02-12, 23:35

It seems that Keppel has started conceptualization and design work on Keppel Bay Plot 3, the plot next to Caribbean. They have engaged some companies to do cladding work to be completed by 2013. It's seems to be low floor, similar to what was stated in master plan that plot 3 and 4 should not block the view from mount faber. Design seems to be undertaken back by Daniel Libeskind Studio and Emerson studio. It is likely to be the 2nd residential project for DL in singapore, after reflections project.

http://www.heintges.com/project.php?id=keppel-bay-plot-3#
(the 4th image shows how the connecting bridge from keppel bay area to
harbour looks like. Even the map in Labrador park indicates a future connecting bridge, so it is more or less confirm that there is going to be a bridge.)

http://emersonstudio.com/experience/multifamilyresidential.html

For cladding targeted to complete by end 2013, I suspect Keppel is observing the market and may make use of the opportunity to launch plot 3 around end 2012/early 2013 when mortgage interest is still low. The next plot of development will help to set new price benchmarks in harbour front precinct. With the next development being low-floor, it is even more confirmed that Reflections will stand as the largest project, only high rise and tallest high-rise residence that is a footstep away from the sea in harbourfront precinct, until the possibilities of high-rise residences replacing keppel golf area during 2025-2030. Don't miss the boat, especially when high-end condo gap is now nearing mass market OCR condo prices eg watertown and bedok residences.

Heng

07-02-12, 06:14

Hmm....something fishy.

I myself bought a 2 bedder unit in reflections in Tower 3A during 2007 launch, Hmm...the 840 2 bedder I saw in URA transacted in Jul/Aug 2011 was 1,713 psf at 1.438 m instead of 1.1 m in your screenshot. Any error ?

Any owners here bought a 2 bedroom from developer during 2007 launch for $1100-$1300 psf ?

The $1.438 m at $1,713 psf is a sea -facing unit ( stack 78 ).

There are other 840 sq ft units in other Towers with lower psf and prices because of golf view, etc

Many first owners who bought cheap ( $1.2 m etc )are still owning the units. ( thus not in the URA 2011 caveats shown ?? )

The URA caveat list ..2011 caveats... at peak.. before latest cooling measures have taken effect.....thus many units around $1.4m ( sub-sale )

So should expect 2 bedroom units to fall....below $1.4m ??

orangeroad80

07-02-12, 09:39

I know #10-78 is a 2 bedder 829 sq feet. Anything below 10th floor is likely to be blocked by Villa even if it is sea facing stack. That is why there is a jump in psf from 10th floor onwards as compared to low floors.

The 1.438m is a 840 sq feet which is likely lower than 10th floor and blocked by villa, that is why it could not command bay viewing psf. The owner may bought it for around 1600 psf in 2007. Be careful when agents tell you that villa top floor is 7th floor, so anything abv 7th floor is unblocked. You have to go in to see it for yourself. As far as I know, to be on the safe side, only 10th and above is unblocked.

I think one may still be able to find good deals around 1.43m-1.5m for 2 bedder, which is low floor eg 3rd floor and etc, 1600 psf due to larger size, lower floors.

For the low floors golf viewing 2 bedders, the owners bought it for 1.24m-1.3m 5 years ago, it is unlikely one would sell it below 1.4m after holding it for 5 long years, especially now that the project has TOP, the owners have no urgency to sell, they can rent and hold. I would say if one can get a unit in reflections now below 1.5m or less than 1600psf, it is considered a good deal. With current mass market prices at bedok and punggol and surrouding new projects like skyline and foresta demanding 1900psf and abv, carribbean re-sale prices, and keppel having plans to launch plot 3, i foresee high chances that even the golf facing units in reflections can hit 1900psf and abv. By then, one can hardly find any units in reflections less than 1.5m.

So owners here who are thinking to sell, my advice is to rent and hold till the economy conditions are favourable for selling the units, eg when foresta and skyline TOP.

The $1.438 m at $1,713 psf is a sea -facing unit ( stack 78 ).

There are other 840 sq ft units in other Towers with lower psf and prices because of golf view, etc

Many first owners who bought cheap ( $1.2 m etc )are still owning the units. ( thus not in the URA 2011 caveats shown ?? )

The URA caveat list ..2011 caveats... at peak.. before latest cooling measures have taken effect.....thus many units around $1.4m ( sub-sale )

So should expect 2 bedroom units to fall....below $1.4m ??

Heng

07-02-12, 09:41

sorry for error in posting : too messy data

Heng

07-02-12, 10:02

[quote=orangeroad80]I know #10-78 is a 2 bedder 829 sq feet.

I think one may still be able to find good deals around 1.43m-1.5m for 2 bedder, which is low floor eg 3rd floor and etc, 1600 psf due to larger size, lower floors.

For the low floors golf viewing 2 bedders, the owners bought it for 1.24m-1.3m 5 years ago, /quote]

$1,438,000 for 840sq ft$1,713psf Aug-11

Heng

07-02-12, 10:24

Due to many units still unsold ... difficult to compete with developer...

1,129 less 836 sold = 293 balance at end of 2011

$1,551 psf sale by developer ( 2011 Dec )

If want to cash out and move to other opportunties, then more likely has to be much lower psf and perhaps sell at cost ??/

orangeroad80

07-02-12, 14:42

Yeah developer is still selling, i think it's because they released by batches till 2010. The remaining are mainly villa units, 3 bed rm & 4 bed rm. The quantum is much higher. The 2 bedders were sold out yrs ago.

From what I know, the price is higher than 2007 launch price and facing may not be better, that's why some ppl are still buying sub-sales than buying from developer. The showflat is still open, you can walk in and check out the prices and remaining units : )

Heng

08-02-12, 08:00

Hmm....something fishy.

I myself bought a 2 bedder unit in reflections in Tower 3A during 2007 launch,....... Example, I recall in SLA strata, #10-93 (Tower 3A) golf facing unit in SLA strata is $1,550 psf, around $1.28m - 1.3m .............

Any owners here bought a 2 bedroom from developer during 2007 launch for $1100-$1300 psf ? ..............?

DEC 2011 developer sold at $1.5k psf ...

Looking ahead, due to Additional Buyer Stamp Duty ( ABSD of 3 to 10% ) etc, and the additional release of units by developer, it looks likely that psf may be down to $1,200 psf or about 1.2m for 2 bedrooms.

In good times, 2 bedroom units were going for about 1.4m in 2011 ( pre-ABSD )

orangeroad80

08-02-12, 12:52

Hey bro,

It's obvious, can see your intentions of trying to push the price down. This easily tell the real owners here that alot of ppl actually wish to own a unit in reflections, but hope the prices can go down as low as mass market condo prices so that they can buy. Just like alot of them have missed the boats and reply in The Sail and marina bay residences forum, hoping prices can crash.

Sigh .... If there is big fall in reflections prices, carribbean, harbour lights, skyline, foresta and sentosa cove will all be affected, you really want to see your fellow sgporeans all burn their fingers ?

DEC 2011 developer sold at $1.5k psf ...

Looking ahead, due to Additional Buyer Stamp Duty ( ABSD of 3 to 10% ) etc, and the additional release of units by developer, it looks likely that psf may be down to $1,200 psf or about 1.2m for 2 bedrooms.

In good times, 2 bedroom units were going for about 1.4m in 2011 ( pre-ABSD )

howgozit

08-02-12, 13:42

Hey bro,

It's obvious, can see your intentions of trying to push the price down. This easily tell the real owners here that alot of ppl actually wish to own a unit in reflections, but hope the prices can go down as low as mass market condo prices so that they can buy. Just like alot of them have missed the boats and reply in The Sail and marina bay residences forum, hoping prices can crash.

Sigh .... If there is big fall in reflections prices, carribbean, harbour lights, skyline, foresta and sentosa cove will all be affected, you really want to see your fellow sgporeans all burn their fingers ?

Huh?....

I think Heng's posting here can't really affect the market lah....

With regards to considering for Sgporeans burning their fingers, I think no need lah... all go in with their eyes open.

In fact, if anything Sgporeans have only themselves to blame for chasing up the property prices to such ridiculous levels. The income to debt ratio for many so-called sgporean "investors" are at borderline.

orangeroad80

08-02-12, 22:26

Ya quite true. I myself also puzzled when I went to the watertown showflats recently and couldn't understand the sg crowds.

Let's return to talk about more positive stuffs here then.

Posting some photos taken recently
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg696/scaled.php?server=696&filename=copyofdsc0241.jpg&res=medium

Huh?....

I think Heng's posting here can't really affect the market lah....

With regards to considering for Sgporeans burning their fingers, I think no need lah... all go in with their eyes open.

In fact, if anything Sgporeans have only themselves to blame for chasing up the property prices to such ridiculous levels. The income to debt ratio for many so-called sgporean "investors" are at borderline.

orangeroad80

09-02-12, 01:16

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7013/6842164325_a260539157_b.jpg

Clipper Round the World Yacht Race 2012

True Waterfront Living
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7006/6842261241_73410d1a92_b.jpg

Heng

09-02-12, 05:43

Hmm....something fishy.

I myself bought a 2 bedder unit in reflections in Tower 3A during 2007 launch, ....Example, I recall in SLA strata, #10-93 (Tower 3A) golf facing unit in SLA strata is $1,550 psf, around $1.28m ........

Any owners here bought a 2 bedroom from developer during 2007 launch for $1100-$1300 psf ? ?

At launch price of $1.2m, even with high holding costs of at least $10k a year, the 2 bedroom unit is attractive to hold on to, even if left vacant.

I believe the high maintenance of close to $500 a month and property taxes will mean a loss of about $1,000 for every month the unit is not rented out.

Like those whose caveats were lodged in 2011, I too thought that $1.4 m was reasonable based on photos I have seen , brochure descriptions, etc.

Till I saw disappointment on the faces after collection of keys.....

Actual vs Perceived.....Room sizes very much smaller than expected...

Hot afternoon sun streaming in.... Views of other units blocking whatever sea view, etc....

CONSOLATION : A pillar large enough to vent all frustrations after paying a premium price to the first owner fortunate enough to sell out before TOP or before getting keys and the reality hits home.....

THUS it is always more prudent to view actual unit before buying ......

august

09-02-12, 09:35

At launch price of $1.2m, even with high holding costs of at least $10k a year, the 2 bedroom unit is attractive to hold on to, even if left vacant.

I believe the high maintenance of close to $500 a month and property taxes will mean a loss of about $1,000 for every month the unit is not rented out.

Like those whose caveats were lodged in 2011, I too thought that $1.4 m was reasonable based on photos I have seen , brochure descriptions, etc.

Till I saw disappointment on the faces after collection of keys.....

Actual vs Perceived.....Room sizes very much smaller than expected...

Hot afternoon sun streaming in.... Views of other units blocking whatever sea view, etc....

CONSOLATION : A pillar large enough to vent all frustrations after paying a premium price to the first owner fortunate enough to sell out before TOP or before getting keys and the reality hits home.....

THUS it is always more prudent to view actual unit before buying ......

aiyo... those prices are obviously for the poorer facing stacks. They pay for what they get lah.

8kenshin

09-02-12, 13:45

aiyo... those prices are obviously for the poorer facing stacks. They pay for what they get lah.

That's one of the reasons I love the marina facing Villas. South facing, limited West sun, sea at front, mountain to the back.

By minimum $4m is too much for me :(

orangeroad80

09-02-12, 21:46

It's depends what you are comparing Reflections with .... if you compare it with The Marq at Patterson, The Orchard Residences and Sentosa cove, Reflections is considered cheap. If you compare it with HDB & BTOs, yes you will find it very expensive. It's relative, depending on what category of ppl buying it.

If you still can find 1.4m or below unit in reflections, golf facing, please pm me, I want to buy. I am serious.

At launch price of $1.2m, even with high holding costs of at least $10k a year, the 2 bedroom unit is attractive to hold on to, even if left vacant.

I believe the high maintenance of close to $500 a month and property taxes will mean a loss of about $1,000 for every month the unit is not rented out.

Like those whose caveats were lodged in 2011, I too thought that $1.4 m was reasonable based on photos I have seen , brochure descriptions, etc.

Till I saw disappointment on the faces after collection of keys.....

Actual vs Perceived.....Room sizes very much smaller than expected...

Hot afternoon sun streaming in.... Views of other units blocking whatever sea view, etc....

CONSOLATION : A pillar large enough to vent all frustrations after paying a premium price to the first owner fortunate enough to sell out before TOP or before getting keys and the reality hits home.....

THUS it is always more prudent to view actual unit before buying ......

reuters

10-02-12, 00:28

buttercarp

10-02-12, 07:19

The location of Reflections is very special. It is located at the Southern-most part of this entire huge piece of continent from Russia to China to Vietnam to Thailand to Malaysia to Singapore ... and Reflections is right at the Southern-most tip. :)

I tot that would be Sentosa Cove?

Jonathan0503

10-02-12, 07:37

howgozit

10-02-12, 07:48

Not really. Malaysia's JB would be the one. The water separating Malaysia and Singapore is a sea and not a river. Singapore is an island

Haha... that is true.

Lovelle

10-02-12, 08:03

At launch price of $1.2m, even with high holding costs of at least $10k a year, the 2 bedroom unit is attractive to hold on to, even if left vacant.

I believe the high maintenance of close to $500 a month and property taxes will mean a loss of about $1,000 for every month the unit is not rented out.

Like those whose caveats were lodged in 2011, I too thought that $1.4 m was reasonable based on photos I have seen , brochure descriptions, etc.

Till I saw disappointment on the faces after collection of keys.....

Actual vs Perceived.....Room sizes very much smaller than expected...

Hot afternoon sun streaming in.... Views of other units blocking whatever sea view, etc....

CONSOLATION : A pillar large enough to vent all frustrations after paying a premium price to the first owner fortunate enough to sell out before TOP or before getting keys and the reality hits home.....

THUS it is always more prudent to view actual unit before buying ......

Appreciate your true comment on the project. I think as an investment it is still a potential there.

Heng

10-02-12, 08:30

find 1.4m or below unit in reflections, golf facing, please pm me, I want to buy. I am serious.

Need your contact number or else you can contact agents in property guru ""2779 units for Sale & Rent ""

The agents are only too happy to see you and conduct viewings while discussing prices.......

That was how I got to view some of the units that were subsequently caveated at less than $1.4m... during the boom times last year ( before ABSD kicks in ).....

Now will consider buying only if less than $1.4m ....since unlikely to have capital appreciation in the near term..... difficult to subsale when there are still close to 300 units unsold by developer

8kenshin

10-02-12, 21:15

Need your contact number or else you can contact agents in property guru ""2779 units for Sale & Rent ""

As there are only 1100 units, this is a prime candidate for a short squeeze.
Though I suspect the real answer are there are not 2779 units for sale and rent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/30/business/worldbusiness/30iht-norris31.1.17372644.html?pagewanted=all

As one of the earlier posters said, there may be a lot of vested interest on this thread. Similar to Caribbean, Sail, Rivergate and a few others before.

Heng, you displayed amazing knowledge of the units (or in any case, more than me and this is the only development I have had any real interest in as I have thought Singapore property a lukewarm investment since 2010) yet you seemed surprised by some units having sun streaming in.

I though this was true of all properties with a large window facing west. Is this development worse than others, or are facings something you don't pay much attention to, or did I get the wrong impression from your post?

You also noted that room sizes are deceivingly small ...was this was not apparent from the floor plan, or was the floor plan misleading?

You also mentioned units blocking each other's views. I though it would be pretty clear from the plan and scale models which units have the views and which do not. I'd be similarly surprised if a Sail owner could not tell the difference between a car park view and a sea view.

I'm curious, because its seems odd to imagine someone being surprised by any of the above.

The things I was surprised by with the development were:

a. The size of the clubhouse, it is a lot more dominant than on the scale models
b. The marble tiles - I though they would be larger than they are (24 x 24?)
c. How consistent the theme was, for example the angular frameworks even extended to the carpark basement lefts and the clubhouse
d. The use of the Caribbean's keyless locking system (Voss something), which can be a bit of a pain to use
e. The fact that there are square units at the center of the development
f. The use of grey marble. Maybe my memory is wrong, but I though it would be black with white veins.

On the pleasant side, the construction quality - tile gaps, use of filler, solidness of parquet and tiles looks top notch, though there is the usual unnecessary paint splotches as for any development. The spacing between units also was larger than it looked on the scale model, and the generous corridor and lift spaces were also a pleasant surprise (cf Sail). The downstairs furniture is also a great and unexpected high end tough (though how practical or durable is anyone's guess)

As I've said before, if it were not for schooling and the fact I do not have $4m burning a hole in my pocket, I'd be in a Reflections villa tomorrow.

Check out the poster's unit on page 27 of this thread....stunning!

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=424271&page=27

richie$$$

10-02-12, 21:39

reflections is abt VIEW

upgrade la on interior....spend $50k like extend room, pillars deco

u know fm d swimming pools 2 only
more decorative pools

LIVING the waterfront living

Tsunami hit better than east coast
sentosa will block

orangeroad80

11-02-12, 00:58

Yeah, you are right there are 2 units which sold below 1.4m in 2011 [attached]. One of them is the smallest sized unit 1+Study 14th floor, golf facing unit. In fact, the second unit 893 unit at 1.35m is a v good buy even if it's facing golf, it should be a fire sales because it's selling at launch price of 1500 psf for 2 bedders. You should have got it during that time. Now that the project has TOP, not sure if the lowest entry price may slowly creep to 1.5m & abv, there are still a rare no of units now below 1.5m, let's wait and observe... I may be wrong.

Nowadays, ppl rush to spend 1.5m-1.7m to buy a punggol mass market condo at 1300-1500psf, while my colleague bought a BTO just a throw away from punggol mrt at only 280k. The mass market prices are now nearing some of the CCR and RCR condos, it would be much wiser to put the money into a CCR/RCR condo than a OCR mass market condo. Once the economy turns good, CCR/RCR will be the first to shoot up and has higher capital gains.

Keppel did not release all the 1100 units yet, they have only released 900 plus units and 800 plus were sold. The timing of their periodic releases are indeed v strange, I am also curious why Keppel is still holding onto the remaining 200 units and did not spread & release them during the past 5 years. But I understand the remaining ones are all 3 bedders & abv, mostly villas and some PH.

Need your contact number or else you can contact agents in property guru ""2779 units for Sale & Rent ""

The agents are only too happy to see you and conduct viewings while discussing prices.......

That was how I got to view some of the units that were subsequently caveated at less than $1.4m... during the boom times last year ( before ABSD kicks in ).....

Now will consider buying only if less than $1.4m ....since unlikely to have capital appreciation in the near term..... difficult to subsale when there are still close to 300 units unsold by developer

orangeroad80

11-02-12, 01:06

I am still looking for IDs, anyone good ones to recommend ? Can pm me, thks.

8kenshin

11-02-12, 05:06

Keppel did not release all the 1100 units yet, they have only released 900 plus units and 800 plus were sold. The timing of their periodic releases are indeed v strange, I am also curious why Keppel is still holding onto the remaining 200 units and did not spread & release them during the past 5 years. But I understand the remaining ones are all 3 bedders & abv, mostly villas and some PH.

Keppel is repeating the same strategy they used for the Caribbean, where they originally held back 150 units for corporate lease. These were rented as fully furnished units at approximately 50% above market rents (e.g $7-8K for a 2 bedder) and then sold at an average of $1450psf last year (versus the price of their last release in 2007 of $750psf). This is how Keppel the benchmarked the Reflections first launch price.

Their phase three is already in the works. Total development size 325,00sqft, so 200-300 units total depending on the size.

http://www.heintges.com/project.php?id=keppel-bay-plot-3

I think this may be why Caribbean prices have been so firm recently. This is a mirror of the Caribbean plot.

Now if you were Keppel with 3 more plots to develop after this, what price are you going to try to launch? $1500 (Caribbean current average) $2,000psf (Reflections current average, assuming a range of $1500-$2500psf) or $2,500psf? And what price do you think Keppel believes it can get for the balance Reflections units in (say) 2016...$2,500psf or current prices?

For those curious, they are leasing at fully furnished apartments. Published rate is $10-13K for a 2bedroom, average $13-19K for 3bedroom and $30K for a 4bedder, with 10% off for the current time. These are all villa blocks with inward facings. They are not available for sale...I asked and was not entertained.

Keppel is a company with the same guys in charge for 30 years. This is a "hedgehog" company, what they plan to do is not very difficult to work out.

http://www.ianbell.com/2009/05/19/the-fox-and-the-hedgehog-which-one-are-you/

hyenergix

11-02-12, 05:10

The are repeating the same strategy they used for the Caribbean. They kept 150 units for corporate lease. These were rented fully furnished at approximately 50% above market rents (e.g $7-8K for a 2 bedder) and then sold at an average of $1450psf last year (versus the price of their last release in 2007 of $900psf). This is how Keppel the benchmarked the Reflections first launch price.

Their phase three is already in the works. Total development size 325,00sqft, so 200-300 units total depending on the size.

http://www.heintges.com/project.php?id=keppel-bay-plot-3

I think this may be why Caribbean prices have been so firm recently. This is a mirror of the Caribbean plot. Now if you were Keppel with 3 more plots to develop after this, what price are you going to try to launch? $1500 (Caribbean current) $2,000psf (Reflections current) or $2,500psf?

For those curious, they are leasing at fully furnished apartments. Published rate is $10-13K for a 2bedroom, average $13-19K for 3bedroom and $30K for a 4bedder, with 10% off for the current time. These are all villa blocks with inward facings. They are not available for sale...I asked and was not entertained.

Keppel is a company with the same guys in charge for 30 years. This is a "hedgehog" company, what they plan not very difficult to work out.

http://www.ianbell.com/2009/05/19/the-fox-and-the-hedgehog-which-one-are-you/

I din know Kep Land is such a cute company.

http://www.worldmostamazingthings.com/2011/04/amazing-hedgehog-hedgehogs-facts-photos.html

8kenshin

11-02-12, 05:19

I din know Kep Land is such a cute company.

http://www.worldmostamazingthings.com/2011/04/amazing-hedgehog-hedgehogs-facts-photos.html

:)

In my book, hedgehogs that act like hedgehogs are the best type of companies to deal.

Foxes are clever but can be tricky (FEO, Sinoland, Citydev?), and hedgehogs that try to be foxes are confused and confusing (SPH, Ho Bee?)

hyenergix

11-02-12, 05:26

:)

In my book, hedgehogs that act like hedgehogs are the best type of companies to deal.

Foxes are clever but can be tricky (FEO, Sinoland, Citydev?), and hedgehogs that try to be foxes are confused and confusing (SPH, Ho Bee?)

OMG, we have an author here. This forum is getting interesting...

What book(s) have you published?

8kenshin

11-02-12, 05:30

OMG, we have an author here. This forum is getting interesting...

What book(s) have you published?

Zero. I do occasionally get paid for writing thing for people though :o

Heng

11-02-12, 06:10

Imagine the scenario in 2007 when Reflections was launched... Beautiful iconic development by the sea side,......etc

Rush in to buy 2 bedroom for investment at around $1.2m .... what were the hopes then ?

High subsale prices, good rental, etc....

Reality now :

Many who bought other properties around 2007 have reaped handsome profits, doubling their investment, ...etc . Some have even made enough to have their new condos fully paid.

Thus came the cooling measures, one round after another to tamper the gains from properties. Latest round is the ABSD where buyers have to pay additional 3 to 10% stamp duty on top of the usual stamp duties.

For Reflections, owners did not get to make huge profits because there were just too many units,...etc.

If only TOP was in 2010 or earlier.....

So with the TOP on 5 December 2011, came the realisation of "dream".

Only units with good sea views can hope to have big capital gains.

Now that you can step inside actual unit, you become aware of layout, reflections from other units in your eyes,,,etc. Some have just realised that trees have grown over the 5 years and now can block views even at 15th storey sky bridge.

Remembering the hopes 5 years ago, would owners hold out or move on to more lucrative investments ? Unless got sea view, the golf course view will disappear soon.

Replacing the golf view will be construction, noise, dust, etc for a number of years. Then the mere inconveniences may be replaced by solid tall blocks ???

Still hope for pre-ABSD price of $1.4m in 2011 or revert to launch price of $1.2m ..... cash out before another scenario appears ? Disappearing golf view is the only change that one is assured of in the near future.

Why rent a NO VIEW unit ?

Heng

11-02-12, 08:29

Yeah, you are right there are 2 units which sold below 1.4m in 2011 [attached]. ......because it's selling at launch price of 1500 psf for 2 bedders. ...

More likely that 2 bedroom units were sold at below $1,400 psf or about $1.2 m during launch ... I know a few friends who bought at around $1.2m.

The $1.35 m unit sold in 2011 is on the 13th floor : not the 14th
It now has a good view of the golf course : better than view of other units from low floor units.

Indeed $1.35m is a good price for high floor unit with unobstructed golf view in 2011 : but in 2012, a more likely price may be around $1.2m

Lesser Premium developments can get 2 bedroom units at about $900k ( see today's advertisements in newspapers )

That is easily a $ 400,000 premium for a 2 bedroom unit

richie$$$

11-02-12, 11:10

iconic structure...every1 knows it
great view 4 sea facing units
everlasting bldg structure. 20yrs down d road still d same
no worries on tsunami- covered by sentosa
a place u buy 4 own stay. live the waterfront living. diff fm east coast
pelnty of deco pools grandeur feel even tumble in wont drown

low investment yield 4 new buyers. only gd 4 own stay
2 swimming pools 2 cater 4 how many tenants? 1100..crowded pool if all go down
facilities insufficient. 100 tenants in other projects hvg problems wth fighting 4 BBQ pits
1 pillar cost expensive $thousand
not enuf trees damn f...k..g hot
paying a lot 4 electricity on lighting..where's environmental friendly thingy?

DC33_2008

11-02-12, 13:39

Be contended. At least you own an iconic building.
Imagine the scenario in 2007 when Reflections was launched... Beautiful iconic development by the sea side,......etc

Rush in to buy 2 bedroom for investment at around $1.2m .... what were the hopes then ?

High subsale prices, good rental, etc....

Reality now :

Many who bought other properties around 2007 have reaped handsome profits, doubling their investment, ...etc . Some have even made enough to have their new condos fully paid.

Thus came the cooling measures, one round after another to tamper the gains from properties. Latest round is the ABSD where buyers have to pay additional 3 to 10% stamp duty on top of the usual stamp duties.

For Reflections, owners did not get to make huge profits because there were just too many units,...etc.

If only TOP was in 2010 or earlier.....

So with the TOP on 5 December 2011, came the realisation of "dream".

Only units with good sea views can hope to have big capital gains.

Now that you can step inside actual unit, you become aware of layout, reflections from other units in your eyes,,,etc. Some have just realised that trees have grown over the 5 years and now can block views even at 15th storey sky bridge.

Remembering the hopes 5 years ago, would owners hold out or move on to more lucrative investments ? Unless got sea view, the golf course view will disappear soon.

Replacing the golf view will be construction, noise, dust, etc for a number of years. Then the mere inconveniences may be replaced by solid tall blocks ???

Still hope for pre-ABSD price of $1.4m in 2011 or revert to launch price of $1.2m ..... cash out before another scenario appears ? Disappearing golf view is the only change that one is assured of in the near future.

Why rent a NO VIEW unit ?

flxcat

11-02-12, 17:07

Keppel is repeating the same strategy they used for the Caribbean, where they originally held back 150 units for corporate lease. These were rented as fully furnished units at approximately 50% above market rents (e.g $7-8K for a 2 bedder) and then sold at an average of $1450psf last year (versus the price of their last release in 2007 of $750psf). This is how Keppel the benchmarked the Reflections first launch price.

Their phase three is already in the works. Total development size 325,00sqft, so 200-300 units total depending on the size.

http://www.heintges.com/project.php?id=keppel-bay-plot-3

I think this may be why Caribbean prices have been so firm recently. This is a mirror of the Caribbean plot.

Now if you were Keppel with 3 more plots to develop after this, what price are you going to try to launch? $1500 (Caribbean current average) $2,000psf (Reflections current average, assuming a range of $1500-$2500psf) or $2,500psf? And what price do you think Keppel believes it can get for the balance Reflections units in (say) 2016...$2,500psf or current prices?

For those curious, they are leasing at fully furnished apartments. Published rate is $10-13K for a 2bedroom, average $13-19K for 3bedroom and $30K for a 4bedder, with 10% off for the current time. These are all villa blocks with inward facings. They are not available for sale...I asked and was not entertained.

Keppel is a company with the same guys in charge for 30 years. This is a "hedgehog" company, what they plan to do is not very difficult to work out.

http://www.ianbell.com/2009/05/19/the-fox-and-the-hedgehog-which-one-are-you/
Wow! Learn something new today:ashamed1:

11-02-12, 21:21

everlasting bldg structure. 20yrs down d road still d same

Launched 2007.

20 years later, left <75 years.... not sure what the value will be like....:scared-3:

lifeline

12-02-12, 05:06

hopeful

12-02-12, 06:19

.......
For those curious, they are leasing at fully furnished apartments. Published rate is $10-13K for a 2bedroom, average $13-19K for 3bedroom and $30K for a 4bedder, with 10% off for the current time. These are all villa blocks with inward facings. They are not available for sale...I asked and was not entertained....

any rented out so far?
are these prices really achievable?
how does that compare to asking rental for high floor seaview Reflection condos there?

richie$$$

12-02-12, 07:15

Launched 2007.

20 years later, left <75 years.... not sure what the value will be like....:scared-3:

compare wth same LH property la..hello
a fan of FH will not b here. i used 2 but after reviewing d investment yield. better 4 LH.
thks 2 u FH fans, there's a gap. lower capital outlay 4 leasehold
stay loyal FH buddy as u will always pay premium 4 property in same locality n leave property 4 next gen

12-02-12, 07:37

compare wth same LH property la..hello
a fan of FH will not b here. i used 2 but after reviewing d investment yield. better 4 LH.
thks 2 u FH fans, there's a gap. lower capital outlay 4 leasehold
stay loyal FH buddy as u will always pay premium 4 property in same locality n leave property 4 next gen

yup... die hard FH fan here.

property should be an appreciating asset.

LH properties run foul of that rule.

Assuming FH prices stay constant.... LH is depreciating.

:2cents:

richie$$$

12-02-12, 08:09

yup... die hard FH fan here.

property should be an appreciating asset.

LH properties run foul of that rule.

Assuming FH prices stay constant.... LH is depreciating.

:2cents:
if LH r nt renewed on lease by developers thru enbloc
only in SG.
u pay premium 4 next generation 2 maintain price
use is d same
i used 2 b diehard hardcore fan
realised cashflow same. tenants dun diff FH n LH
only if u buy sell or trader in properties n FH diehard fans dun sell...

richie$$$

12-02-12, 08:11

in other countries stick 2 FH
bt pls stick 2 ur belief
helps us LH & FH fans 2 arbitrage LOL
i m both bt no diehard

12-02-12, 08:13

if LH r nt renewed on lease by developers thru enbloc
only in SG.
u pay premium 4 next generation 2 maintain price
use is d same
i used 2 b diehard hardcore fan
realised cashflow same. tenants dun diff FH n LH
only if u buy sell or trader in properties n FH diehard fans dun sell...

Developer has to pay differential premium to top up LH land back to 99. No issue with FH. So developer will pay less to the LH enbloc owners.

The issue does not go away through enbloc.

CCR

12-02-12, 11:49

if LH r nt renewed on lease by developers thru enbloc
only in SG.
u pay premium 4 next generation 2 maintain price
use is d same
i used 2 b diehard hardcore fan
realised cashflow same. tenants dun diff FH n LH
only if u buy sell or trader in properties n FH diehard fans dun sell...

Bro can elaborate a bit more? Your English very cheem... I catch no ball.... So fh good or LH good?

howgozit

12-02-12, 12:10

Bro can elaborate a bit more? Your English very cheem... I catch no ball.... So fh good or LH good?

Haha... you are revealing your age.

Like sms-ing, ricies$$$ uses a lot of short form text.... more tedious for old folks to digest and comprehend. I kena suan before already. Haha...

august

12-02-12, 12:32

LH or FH shld be secondary to location.

howgozit

12-02-12, 14:18

LH or FH shld be secondary to location.

Yah... but for apple to apple comparison, given same location FH should be more favoured than LH right?

richie$$$

12-02-12, 15:18

Developer has to pay differential premium to top up LH land back to 99. No issue with FH. So developer will pay less to the LH enbloc owners.

The issue does not go away through enbloc.

lower entry capital
same rent yield whats d problem

developers like enbloc LH or FH
FH got better chances? developers know can squeeze LH owners
still got chance mah

over time still make $$$

richie$$$

12-02-12, 15:19

Bro can elaborate a bit more? Your English very cheem... I catch no ball.... So fh good or LH good?
bro u can attend my not queen english class?
pay $$$

richie$$$

12-02-12, 15:24

btw agent told me maintenance fee 2 bedder $500
mayb i heard wrong le..now sms him.

if yes, nd 2 f developer why switch on so many lights n pass costs to owners.
buy 1 n b on committee n comment big owners cover.

richie$$$

12-02-12, 20:22

Yah... but for apple to apple comparison, given same location FH should be more favoured than LH right?

fm rent perspective y d diff betwn FH n LH?
tenant dun care LH or FH?

DC33_2008

12-02-12, 20:41

Wow! Not Cheap. There is a D1 2-bedder condo maintenance fee is less than half of $500.
btw agent told me maintenance fee 2 bedder $500
mayb i heard wrong le..now sms him.

if yes, nd 2 f developer why switch on so many lights n pass costs to owners.
buy 1 n b on committee n comment big owners cover.

bargain hunter

12-02-12, 20:50

i can confirm it. owner friend told me the same. just under $500 after GST for his 2 bedder.

btw agent told me maintenance fee 2 bedder $500
mayb i heard wrong le..now sms him.

if yes, nd 2 f developer why switch on so many lights n pass costs to owners.
buy 1 n b on committee n comment big owners cover.

bargain hunter

12-02-12, 20:54

the numerous water features also not cheap to maintain. and dun overlook the fully air con B1 and level 1 lift lobbies. :ashamed1:

carribean 3 bedder's maintenence has been ever increasing. almost $600 already now. so can expect more of the same for reflections in the years to come.

btw agent told me maintenance fee 2 bedder $500
mayb i heard wrong le..now sms him.

if yes, nd 2 f developer why switch on so many lights n pass costs to owners.
buy 1 n b on committee n comment big owners cover.

richie$$$

12-02-12, 20:58

i can confirm it. owner friend told me the same. just under $500 after GST for his 2 bedder.

agent just sms me
i didnt hear wrongly. same as bargain hunter

w.tf the developer is doing...1100 owners...why switch on so many lights
oversight on dis...will rethink again.

rent must b bloodyhigh 2 cover

peanuts 4 foreigners.
killer 4 me singaporean jialat

D10 D11 2-4 yr old 200+ owners only $300 below 4 a 2-bedder
hv to cool it better eject out 2 other projects n revisit reflections nxt 2 mths after understanding rent$ demand

howgozit

12-02-12, 21:34

fm rent perspective y d diff betwn FH n LH?
tenant dun care LH or FH?

Yep that's true if one is just looking at only rental returns.

orangeroad80

13-02-12, 00:45

That's very insightful. Now, that's explains why.

I see, so that's also how reflections manage to bring up the price of caribbean 2x.

I thought this is a good method to ensure the psf of the future plots - 3, 4 and 6 does not bring down the price of caribbean and reflections. One of the reasons why i see reflections as a safer investment is that besides it's a global iconic residential like the Sail, it's own developer has further interests in developing surrounding plots which will improve the value of the current projects. Most importantly, there won't be conflicts of interests as the surrounding projects belong to the same developer - Keppel with a masterplan in mind. I think this is quite a safe investment + gd for own stay as compared to some mass market condos where prices are escalating to unbelievable heights in recent months.

Keppel is repeating the same strategy they used for the Caribbean, where they originally held back 150 units for corporate lease. These were rented as fully furnished units at approximately 50% above market rents (e.g $7-8K for a 2 bedder) and then sold at an average of $1450psf last year (versus the price of their last release in 2007 of $750psf). This is how Keppel the benchmarked the Reflections first launch price.

Their phase three is already in the works. Total development size 325,00sqft, so 200-300 units total depending on the size.

http://www.heintges.com/project.php?id=keppel-bay-plot-3

I think this may be why Caribbean prices have been so firm recently. This is a mirror of the Caribbean plot.

Now if you were Keppel with 3 more plots to develop after this, what price are you going to try to launch? $1500 (Caribbean current average) $2,000psf (Reflections current average, assuming a range of $1500-$2500psf) or $2,500psf? And what price do you think Keppel believes it can get for the balance Reflections units in (say) 2016...$2,500psf or current prices?

For those curious, they are leasing at fully furnished apartments. Published rate is $10-13K for a 2bedroom, average $13-19K for 3bedroom and $30K for a 4bedder, with 10% off for the current time. These are all villa blocks with inward facings. They are not available for sale...I asked and was not entertained.

Keppel is a company with the same guys in charge for 30 years. This is a "hedgehog" company, what they plan to do is not very difficult to work out.

http://www.ianbell.com/2009/05/19/the-fox-and-the-hedgehog-which-one-are-you/

orangeroad80

13-02-12, 00:56

For info, the maintenance fee is $70 per share.
Dependent on size, it's standard eg <51 sq m = 5 shares, 51-100 sq = 6 shares, 100 sq-150 sq = 7 shares, 150 sq - 200 sq = 8 shares and so on. So 2 bedder are either 6 shares $420 or 7 shares $490 dependent on floor size.

If you are comparing maintenance fees between projects, you should compare share value to share value. Actually, I realised most new condo projects now are $40 per share & abv already. The maintenance fees for older condo are cheaper.

richie$$$

13-02-12, 07:10

double of other projects?
if 4 investment must get high rent 2 cover this.
if own stay jialat. tis fee go up no come down.
dun tell me nxt time go up 2 $1000. dun understand so many owners still so high..pay 4 sinking fund or maintenance?

dun tell me sinking fund is anothr diff amt

Rosy

13-02-12, 08:22

sinking fund will kick in after 1-2 years

Heng

13-02-12, 11:28

For info, the maintenance fee is $70 per share.
Dependent on size, it's standard eg
<51 sq m = 5 shares,
51-100 sq = 6 shares,
100 sq-150 sq = 7 shares,
150 sq - 200 sq = 8 shares and so on.

So 2 bedder are either 6 shares $420 or 7 shares $490 dependent on floor size.

.

Anyone got the approved strata scheme ?

For Reflections, is it tilted in favor of 3 bedrooms and larger units ?

Based on Orangeroad80 posting, a 1076 sq ft ( 100 sq m ) has to pay $ 490 monthly for maintenance fee ( $524.30 w GST ) ???

Does the $524.30 includes sinking fund ?

DC33_2008

13-02-12, 14:23

Your maintenace slip should show the sinking fund if it is there. Sinking funds comes in only after a few years. It is just a reserve fund to pay for big ticket project in condo like change of lifts, etc.
Anyone got the approved strata scheme ?

For Reflections, is it tilted in favor of 3 bedrooms and larger units ?

Based on Orangeroad80 posting, a 1076 sq ft ( 100 sq m ) has to pay $ 490 monthly for maintenance fee ( $524.30 w GST ) ???

Does the $524.30 includes sinking fund ?

Heng

15-02-12, 12:42

Developer sold unit at $1,780 psf in 2012 January.

About the same range in 2007 ? except lowest psf from Developer is $1,366 psf.

See attached from URA web-site showing that psf hardly changed since 2007 ?

8kenshin

15-02-12, 16:56

The implied gain is 30% up, (1,780/1,366), but it obviously pretty hard to work out exact numbers due to facings etc.

My own guess is that its up 15-20% on average. Other developments I looked at such as Cosmopolitan, Azure, Caribbean are up ~30% over the same period.

Developer sold unit at $1,780 psf in 2012 January.

About the same range in 2007 ? except lowest psf from Developer is $1,366 psf.

See attached from URA web-site showing that psf hardly changed since 2007 ?

orangeroad80

15-02-12, 21:49

Ya, I also noticed the gain is considered v minimal, only around 15% over a period of 5 years. Hence, there is still a huge potential for future capital gain, especially when there are 3 unleashed plots of land supporting the future prices.

Honestly, I have seen OCR mass market condo, gaining 50-60% from launch till TOP. I hesitated in getting those as sub-sales, as the prices are already nearing RCR and CCR prices.

Heng

16-02-12, 06:43

Ya, I also noticed the gain is considered v minimal, only around 15% over a period of 5 years. .

Very few subsales got profits as Reflections was sold by developer at already high quantum for 2 bedroom units.

e.g. Just before the latest Cooling Measures, a unit sold for $1.33 m in Nov 2011 was bought at $1.226m. Less than $100k profit. Gross margin was less than 9%. The nett profit was very much less.

Less than 9% gross after 5 years for the lucky first owner. The unit was on high floor, above 12. Opportunity cost was high because most properties bought in 2007 onwards reaped very much better gains.

A study in detail will show most 2 roomers in Reflections did not make profits. Going forward, it is even more difficult with ABSD, SSD, etc

It does not help that holding costs are high, monthly maintenance of $500, property tax another $500, interest costs, etc

orangeroad80

16-02-12, 22:44

I see it in different light. I see opportunities in sub-sales when the first owner is selling nearer to the launch price, that means the first owner has not enjoy the full gain yet, which would be left to the next owner to enjoy it. It's like stocks. I normally will not buy a sub-sales when I know the first owner has already gained huge substantial profits and I will ask myself what is the likelihood of me gaining good profits later. I think a good example is Caspian, it's going to TOP in July, look at the sub-sales asking price, they are more than 2 times the launch price, do you still want to buy ?

Honestly, I rather spend 1.3m to buy a 2 rm reflections, than spending it on a 3 rm water town condo. First, I can rent it out as reflections has TOP, with rents subsidize monthly loan payments. Reflections has surrounding condo at poorer locations pricing at launch price 1900 psf and above. Even if we exclude Keppel next plot, when these condo top in 4 yrs time in 2016, I am quite sure the below unit can help me fetch 2100 psf & abv, helping to make 300-350k profits. It may not be a very huge gain, but I would say it's a very safe investment with a peace of mind. Whereas for watertown, it's a total mystery to me whether I can squeeze the same profits in 4 yrs time and I could not rent out during development. I would say in yr 2011, reflections and rochester mall are one of the more value sub-sales purchase.

With SSD, i think sub-sale market may become almost extinct by 2014/15. It may become mostly re-sale or launch purchase transactions, unless the projects take more than 4 to 5 years to develop. So make full use of the opportunity now when there are still good sub-sales around :)

Very few subsales got profits as Reflections was sold by developer at already high quantum for 2 bedroom units.

e.g. Just before the latest Cooling Measures, a unit sold for $1.33 m in Nov 2011 was bought at $1.226m. Less than $100k profit. Gross margin was less than 9%. The nett profit was very much less.

Less than 9% gross after 5 years for the lucky first owner. The unit was on high floor, above 12. Opportunity cost was high because most properties bought in 2007 onwards reaped very much better gains.

A study in detail will show most 2 roomers in Reflections did not make profits. Going forward, it is even more difficult with ABSD, SSD, etc

It does not help that holding costs are high, monthly maintenance of $500, property tax another $500, interest costs, etc

Heng

17-02-12, 06:20

$1.330m , $1.350m, $1.352m units got lower psf than 2007 median of $$1,783 psf for small units.

See extracts from URA :

$1,366 psf in 2007 was for larger unit.....$1.2m was launch price for many 2 bedroom units The $1.33m unit was only 775 sq ft. Thus developer price was about $1.23 m in 2007. First owner subsale at $1.33 m.

..in sub-sales when the first owner is selling nearer to the launch price,

Honestly, I rather spend 1.3m to buy a 2 rm reflections....

:)

Thus first owner to subsale at $1.3 m still got profits. If sell at launch price of $1.2 m ...many prospects may still consider it expensive due to very small units of 775, 786, 893 sq ft units , possibly with disappearing golf view in few years' time.

Today's pricing can get 2 bedroom at about $700k in lesser locations. Easier to make similar profits from 2 units then to extract $200k from 1 Reflections unit without view.

Large 3 rooms with sea view will always in demand and thus command premium price....... It is the 2 rooms that suffer and likely to cause losses if buyers pay too high a price.

orangeroad80

18-02-12, 00:13

Have to compare apple with apple... no one is stopping you to buy a 700k condo elsewhere, pls feel free to purchase as long as you think it's worthwhile.

I find Marq at the Patterson expensive, but the ppl who bought it may not think so. It's kinda irritating if I were to go to their forum page and complain to them everyday their houses are very expensive and they will surely make loses and they should have bought 50 units of 700k condo elsewhere. Hope you get what I mean.

Ppl who bought, see value in it. If you think it's expensive for you, then look elsewhere. As simple as that.

$1.330m , $1.350m, $1.352m units got lower psf than 2007 median of $$1,783 psf for small units.

See extracts from URA :

$1,366 psf in 2007 was for larger unit.....$1.2m was launch price for many 2 bedroom units The $1.33m unit was only 775 sq ft. Thus developer price was about $1.23 m in 2007. First owner subsale at $1.33 m.

Thus first owner to subsale at $1.3 m still got profits. If sell at launch price of $1.2 m ...many prospects may still consider it expensive due to very small units of 775, 786, 893 sq ft units , possibly with disappearing golf view in few years' time.

Today's pricing can get 2 bedroom at about $700k in lesser locations. Easier to make similar profits from 2 units then to extract $200k from 1 Reflections unit without view.

Large 3 rooms with sea view will always in demand and thus command premium price....... It is the 2 rooms that suffer and likely to cause losses if buyers pay too high a price.

orangeroad80

18-02-12, 00:32

It's confirmed. Keppel is launching Plot 3 Residential soon in April-May 2012.

The showroom is building in progress, on the plot of land besides Caribbean and the signboard indicated expected date of completion of showroom as May 2012. Will it going to be another 8 million showflat like Reflections' one ? This development is going to set new benchmark in prices in harbourfront area. I look forward to the seaview promenade that finally connects to harbourfront, Vivo.

Keppel is repeating the same strategy they used for the Caribbean, where they originally held back 150 units for corporate lease. These were rented as fully furnished units at approximately 50% above market rents (e.g $7-8K for a 2 bedder) and then sold at an average of $1450psf last year (versus the price of their last release in 2007 of $750psf). This is how Keppel the benchmarked the Reflections first launch price.

Their phase three is already in the works. Total development size 325,00sqft, so 200-300 units total depending on the size.

http://www.heintges.com/project.php?id=keppel-bay-plot-3

I think this may be why Caribbean prices have been so firm recently. This is a mirror of the Caribbean plot.

Now if you were Keppel with 3 more plots to develop after this, what price are you going to try to launch? $1500 (Caribbean current average) $2,000psf (Reflections current average, assuming a range of $1500-$2500psf) or $2,500psf? And what price do you think Keppel believes it can get for the balance Reflections units in (say) 2016...$2,500psf or current prices?

For those curious, they are leasing at fully furnished apartments. Published rate is $10-13K for a 2bedroom, average $13-19K for 3bedroom and $30K for a 4bedder, with 10% off for the current time. These are all villa blocks with inward facings. They are not available for sale...I asked and was not entertained.

Keppel is a company with the same guys in charge for 30 years. This is a "hedgehog" company, what they plan to do is not very difficult to work out.

http://www.ianbell.com/2009/05/19/the-fox-and-the-hedgehog-which-one-are-you/

Heng

18-02-12, 05:37

$1.27 m done for above 10th floor : 818 sq ft : thus unblocked view

Competition as more units are put up for sale / rent will cause prices to drop. The fall is likely to be faster once the defects are rectified.

Owners have started to attend to the defects submission, etc
since 5 December 2011, TOP date.

Heng

18-02-12, 06:11

Will be interesting to see if the ABSD and possibly slowing economy will throw up any bargains (count me in for any direct seaview for $1600psf!)

.

see attached file for 2 property agents who advertised units @ your preferred psf of $1,600 or about $1.4m .

I do not know them and have no deals with any of the 2 who advertised the units on propertyguru yesterday .

Heng

18-02-12, 10:04

saw a unit at 1.2mil for 900sqft...that's oredi cheap...

if 20% correction, it may go under 1mil

Possibly this is the $1.2 million unit caveated in 2012 January.

8kenshin

18-02-12, 17:21

see attached file for 2 property agents who advertised units @ your preferred psf of $1,600 or about $1.4m .

I do not know them and have no deals with any of the 2 who advertised the units on propertyguru yesterday .

Thanks for this. 'm a bit greedy though, I wanted $1600 for direct sea view :)

BTW, on the caveats, a lot of them could be from the original sale. i have a relative who bought a unit in 2007 on deferred payment, until today her unit has not been shown up on the caveat list.

august

18-02-12, 17:44

yup due to DPS, the caveats are only lodged now.

richie$$$

18-02-12, 20:41

one talking abt own stay...2500psf 2000 3000 also ppl pay

one talking abt investment. same amt of capital better yield elsewhere even rent
hdb yield tops all LMAO

minority

19-02-12, 04:50

I like the design of the place. Only gripes too many units. How s the rental take up for this project? Rental is on the high side I feel... Can rent in orchard for the same price. But I guess it's a choice if tenant want near sentosa.

Heng

20-02-12, 08:27

Only gripes too many units. How s the rental take up for this project? Rental is on the high side I feel... .

3148 units listed : got duplicates as many agents advertised same units, etc

about 1,000 for Sale and double the number available for rental

see screenshot from propertyguru page today for details on the more than 2,000 units for rental ( duplicates exist ) and more than 1,000 for sale

Lovelle

20-02-12, 08:44

will go down to take a look. my sense is, we still can wait to see how this situation will pan out ...

Rosy

20-02-12, 08:53

almost all foreigners stop buying and 60% LTV had squeezed out many local buyers. Only 5xxk quantum can sell like the guillemard edge?

Will foreigners accept 10% as the norm soon and start buying again?

orangeroad80

21-02-12, 01:13

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7199/6910744731_363e80a24d_b.jpg

After a long period of 5 years to complete Reflections, Keppel has finally made the move on Plot 3. Sales launching in May.

This is going to set new price benchmark in the precinct. And a step closer to Keppel's Masterplan.

Witness how a new project launch can strategically pull up and stabilize the prices of the surrounding 2 plots - Reflections and Caribbean.

hopeful

21-02-12, 05:57

After a long period of 5 years to complete Reflections, Keppel has finally made the move on Plot 3. Sales launching in May.

This is going to set new price benchmark in the precinct. And a step closer to Keppel's Masterplan.

Witness how a new project launch can strategically pull up and stabilize the prices of the surrounding 2 plots - Reflections and Caribbean.

assuming it is 99LH, when did the lease of plot 3 started?
if top, then remaining lease is less than 90 years???

orangeroad80

22-02-12, 01:22

assuming it is 99LH, when did the lease of plot 3 started?
if top, then remaining lease is less than 90 years???

I think it should be starting from 2011. This plot of land is smaller, it should take 3 yrs to TOP. Remaining lease should be at least 94-95 yrs.

devilplate

22-02-12, 08:10

i tink hor....when keppel decide to launch tat last plot....they will top up the lease lor...just like livia, nv, palette lor....same same la

the last plot is the bestest plot......

reflection pricing actually not bad leh......just abit more den next door carribean.....but hor too bad foreigners barrier set up liao......if not reflection shd chiong up one lor upon TOP.....the swimming pool is too small i tot.....the clubhse is nice and if i were to buy one there, i will only go for the villas. tower block is nice to look at but not nice to stay inside.....tats how i feel after viewing some

Heng

22-02-12, 08:12

No amount of waiting can change the view... if there is none to start off with... so the value can only go down with waiting............

will go down to take a look. my sense is, we still can wait to see how this situation will pan out ...

Possible solution below ?

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=13005&page=2
I had let most of them go below market value to clear fast - averagely about 5% to 10% below market value for all.

As the number of units for sale / rent keep increasing .....with more agents running around without any results....

orangeroad80

22-02-12, 12:52

Ya, I also feel if it's for the foreigners barrier, the price should be accelerating up during this year of TOP. With Dow Jones and STI on a bull run and greece agreeing to eurozone deal, the economy looks more optimistic.

Reflections may not be the last plot, but I think it's likely the last point to have architectural buildings of such heights in keppel bay. The rest should be all low floors. This would make it unique among the plots. The next high floor (> 10 floors) which is so near the sea (w/o any roads separating like east coast) would be sentosa cove, which is priced much much higher.

I personally feel harbour front is nice location to stay in, not too near CBD which will remain me of my office and work, but not too far from CBD as well :)

i tink hor....when keppel decide to launch tat last plot....they will top up the lease lor...just like livia, nv, palette lor....same same la

the last plot is the bestest plot......

reflection pricing actually not bad leh......just abit more den next door carribean.....but hor too bad foreigners barrier set up liao......if not reflection shd chiong up one lor upon TOP.....the swimming pool is too small i tot.....the clubhse is nice and if i were to buy one there, i will only go for the villas. tower block is nice to look at but not nice to stay inside.....tats how i feel after viewing some

dtrax

22-02-12, 14:55

reflections owner muz be damn sian.. top at wrong time... just like when someone is born into a wrong country. Yes otherwise the price will be alot higher

Lovelle

22-02-12, 19:10

reflections owner muz be damn sian.. top at wrong time... just like when someone is born into a wrong country. Yes otherwise the price will be alot higher

how about other owners project who has yet to top ?

there are many more yet to or coming to top. everyone also in sway

richie$$$

22-02-12, 22:29

Plot 3 got better view than carribean n reflections?
But near 2 vivo dat s a sure

Last plot - nope
Forgot d golf plot?
Another 1100 units?

Heng

23-02-12, 06:20

Plot 3 ?
Last plot - nope
Forgot d golf plot?
Another 1100 units?

300 units still not sold by Developer out of the 1,129 units in Reflections.
Another 1,100 new units beside Reflections will definitely mean Reflections owners face stiff competition for Rental / Resale , etc...

Buy from Developer is always better ....Fresh 12 month warranty, discount packages, stamp duty absorption, furniture vouchers, rebates, etc.........

Furthermore, construction noise, dust and NEW tall blocks are going up in place of golf view.......thus disappearing golf view.....

Heng

23-02-12, 09:05

Next Cooling measures coming ? Surely will be more effective in preventing more first-timers from rushing in .......witness the New Launches.....
QUOTED from Samsara : """IMHO, the Punggol Watertown "success" may be the straw that has broken the proverbial camel's back:

a. MND will definitely whack the property market hard with the next CM

b. Many first-timer "investors" are plunging their savings into new launches; the resale market which is dominated by the more experienced investors is facing strong resistance which has manifested itself as drastic drops in volume and increased incidence of lowering of asking prices

c. the pool of buyers in the market is being depleted quite quickly now

d. the "greed" level in the property market is hitting new highs""""

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmlxxvi
maybe bro samsara knows something we dont...

DaytonaSS

23-02-12, 11:58

300 units still not sold by Developer out of the 1,129 units in Reflections.
Another 1,100 new units beside Reflections will definitely mean Reflections owners face stiff competition for Rental / Resale , etc...

Buy from Developer is always better ....Fresh 12 month warranty, discount packages, stamp duty absorption, furniture vouchers, rebates, etc.........

Furthermore, construction noise, dust and NEW tall blocks are going up in place of golf view.......thus disappearing golf view.....

if i am not wrong, the developer have reserved units for rental apartments. You can see these units there being done up and there are some furniture on the balcony. The development should be quite popular with ang mor.

lifeline

23-02-12, 12:15

if i am not wrong, the developer have reserved units for rental apartments. You can see these units there being done up and there are some furniture on the balcony. The development should be quite popular with ang mor.

my friend, staying there soon, told me...
the 3 blocks of service apartment for 2 br starts at 9k/month, golf course view with 3 times per week housekeeping.

HP65

23-02-12, 14:48

my friend, staying there soon, told me...
the 3 blocks of service apartment for 2 br starts at 9k/month, golf course view with 3 times per week housekeeping.

Repeating the formula from Caribbean. They did the same thing before. That time 3+Study was leased out at $8.5K!! All the owners were laughing as it helped to push some of the tenants to owners. Caribbean was initially shun by many investors but eventually those who boarded the ship was well rewarded....they even gave us 2 years deferred payment AFTER TOP!!

This will be good for the support of exisiting owners of Reflection and indirectly even Carribbean. Well done Keppel! Those dreaming of massive price drop....hmm. This might turn out to be another `Caribbean in the making'

devilplate

23-02-12, 14:54

so can consider seahill? aso got serviced apts....lol

HP65

23-02-12, 15:22

so can consider seahill? aso got serviced apts....lol

Have never trusted FEO, will not bother to even touch their ppty. Always resort to creative marketing. One benefit though, if you notice, is that ppty still with unsold developer units AND the units are leased out by the developer, the development is usually very well maintained.

devilplate

23-02-12, 15:49

Have never trusted FEO, will not bother to even touch their ppty. Always resort to creative marketing. One benefit though, if you notice, is that ppty still with unsold developer units AND the units are leased out by the developer, the development is usually very well maintained.
dun blacklist FEO la....wakakaka.....their projects ok wat.....i beginning to hate crapland projects.....wakakaka

i bot some of their past projects and make gd money although bot subsale instead of directly from them....haha

HP65

23-02-12, 16:20

dun blacklist FEO la....wakakaka.....their projects ok wat.....i beginning to hate crapland projects.....wakakaka

i bot some of their past projects and make gd money although bot subsale instead of directly from them....haha

No lah, so many developers out there, no need to choose FEO mah....personal fav: Wheelock, Bukit Sembawang, Keppel, Wingtai. Wont go wrong with these few developers.

devilplate

23-02-12, 16:26

No lah, so many developers out there, no need to choose FEO mah....personal fav: Wheelock, Bukit Sembawang, Keppel, Wingtai. Wont go wrong with these few developers.
actually u mean the built quality of their completed projects?

all u mentioned is high end developers wor.....i dun like wingtai at all...they priced their project SUPER HIGH.....riverine by the park and forestKILL

so far i only worry about smaller unheard of developers in terms of built quality....oxley CMI!!!

orangeroad80

23-02-12, 22:49

Repeating the formula from Caribbean. They did the same thing before. That time 3+Study was leased out at $8.5K!! All the owners were laughing as it helped to push some of the tenants to owners. Caribbean was initially shun by many investors but eventually those who boarded the ship was well rewarded....they even gave us 2 years deferred payment AFTER TOP!!

This will be good for the support of exisiting owners of Reflection and indirectly even Carribbean. Well done Keppel! Those dreaming of massive price drop....hmm. This might turn out to be another `Caribbean in the making'

Agree, I have the same thoughts too. Keppel has its strategies. All this form part of the Keppel Bay Masterplan which has gone through years of planning. It will be the flagship of the Keppel Land Residential, which will subsequently help them penetrate further into the high end market, together with Marina Bay Residences and Suites.

Heng

24-02-12, 08:03

if i were to buy one there, i will only go for the villas. tower block is nice to look at but not nice to stay inside.....tats how i feel after viewing some

Like your honest opinion....BUYER has to cater to interests of tenant or those who are going to stay inside the unit ....the layout, view, sun, etc...

So if it is " not nice to stay inside " ... how can owner benefit if the unit is not a CHOICE unit with SEAview ?

Difficult to "feel good" if visitor passes remark such as " pay so much for this lousy view ? " and asks why did you not get that unit that has a seaview ? or high enough to have unobstructed view ?

Or Common toilet without shower facility ? etc

Lovelle

24-02-12, 08:06

minority

24-02-12, 08:24

lovely project. but pricy though...

orangeroad80

24-02-12, 11:17

Like your honest opinion....BUYER has to cater to interests of tenant or those who are going to stay inside the unit ....the layout, view, sun, etc...

So if it is " not nice to stay inside " ... how can owner benefit if the unit is not a CHOICE unit with SEAview ?

Difficult to "feel good" if visitor passes remark such as " pay so much for this lousy view ? " and asks why did you not get that unit that has a seaview ? or high enough to have unobstructed view ?

Or Common toilet without shower facility ? etc

Thanks to new developments around the area like harbour suites, skyline, and foresta, you will have to pay much more, with a more lousy view. They supported the prices of reflections, in order for reflections prices to mass drop, these project's prices have to collapse first.

Trust me, you are going to miss the boat soon, once plot 3 is launched.
3 more months to think about it.

Keppel has mastermind the whole keppel bay development and has support from government in this development. Keppel is rich. They can easily hold 180 reflection units, furnished it, rent out and play with the market. And then launch plot 3 at the same time. It is proven to be a good strategy and a win-win for owners as well. As long as I know this is not the last plot, there would be gains surely.

hopeful

24-02-12, 11:22

Thanks to new developments around the area like harbour suites, skyline, and foresta, you will have to pay much more, with a more lousy view. They supported the prices of reflections, in order for reflections prices to mass drop, these project's prices have to collapse first.

Trust me, you are going to miss the boat soon, once plot 3 is launched.
3 more months to think about it.

Keppel has mastermind the whole keppel bay development and has support from government in this development. Keppel is rich. They can easily hold 180 reflection units, furnished it, rent out and play with the market. And then launch plot 3 at the same time. It is proven to be a good strategy and a win-win, their 'share-holders' who bought their development will also gain.

is the price of reflections recession proof? how about in 2008-2009?

orangeroad80

24-02-12, 12:22

is the price of reflections recession proof? how about in 2008-2009?

I don't think there is a single project in sg not affected during 2008-2009.

Heng

25-02-12, 06:14

....Keppel is rich. They can easily hold 180 reflection units, furnished it, rent out and play with the market. .....

What's good for Wall Street is bad for Main Street

The reason why what is good for Wall Street might not be good for Main Street is that each segment has differing and often competing interests.

Keppel is rich and can hold... play with the market.

Can individual investors of 2 bedroom units with no views do the same ?

Whatever Keppel does cannot remove their NO views...disappearing golf views.

So whilst Keppel increases....the individual owners can only decrease because what they are holding cannot be improved with the passage of time.

BUY in anticipation, SELL on news.... so now with the realisation of less than ideal units ??

Heng

25-02-12, 10:24

will go down to take a look. my sense is, we still can wait to see how this situation will pan out ...

Already can see losses starting ....

$ 156,027 lost assuming no interest cost , no legal and other miscellaneous fees since 2007.

FROM URA data :

$1,415,400 :::::1,012sq ft :::: Strata ::::1,399psf in Jan-12

cost1,530,900sale-1,415,400

115,500duty40,527

LOSS156,027

orangeroad80

26-02-12, 00:49

Whatever Keppel does cannot remove their NO views...disappearing golf views.

Ya, I feel it's safer to buy the sea/bay view units though quantum is higher. The sea bay view is permanent and will never be blocked, as there are no more buildings in front of Reflections.

I realized the stacks facing directly the direction towards keppel bridge, keppel yacht, IR/sentosa, sea have the best view in the whole project. (and of cos also higher psf for those units ...)

Heng

26-02-12, 06:33

will go down ...

Attached screenshots from URA showing unit that developer sold in 2007..now sold at $1,3XX psf with at least $156,XXX loss for owner.

Close to 300 unsold units with developer ( URA web-site ) and many more unsold units in block bought by Taiwanese lady.

3,628 listings for Sale / Rent ::: Reflections

Agents still trying for very high & unrealistic prices

amk

26-02-12, 09:28

Heng just curious, what is your interest in this project ? I'm not vested in this project (for other reasons), but just as an observer of this thread, you seem determined to talk down this project as best as you can. R u looking to buy ? Or u really want to warn others not to buy ? Never had I seen a member so aggressively putting down a project so hard, with sales charts. Tis already goes beyond normal talkcock. It does look u have some agenda on this project.
Sorry if I sound a bit unfriendly. Nothing against you or other members. Just a bit curious.

Btw for such investment projects, it's really not uncommon to see nb of ads = 3 times of nb units, especially when it has many types of layouts. Normally an agent will put ad for all types of units in a project and claim he has access to all types. Nothing new here.

For that example u posted with actual loss, do u have the exact unit number ?

teddybear

26-02-12, 09:37

I'm not vested here. My experiences told me that you can see someone got it at a very cheap rate for a handful units but you normally can't get it. I had tried to offer (not this reflection) a few time for different projects before, someone still managed to get it at a cheaper rate for the same unit that I offered at a higher rate! Likewise for someone sold it at higher rate for a lousy stack but you can manage to sell your better units, of which you are willing to let go at a slightly lower rate :scared-3:.

There are many insider transactions.....:eek:

Attached screenshots from URA showing unit that developer sold in 2007..now sold at $1,3XX psf with at least $156,XXX loss for owner.

Close to 300 unsold units with developer ( URA web-site ) and many more unsold units in block bought by Taiwanese lady.

3,628 listings for Sale / Rent ::: Reflections

Agents still trying for very high & unrealistic prices

richie$$$

26-02-12, 10:58

say wat u want demand is still there esp. when mkt bounces back

reflections still best on frontage even compared 2 existing /new projects

hovivi

26-02-12, 12:11

orangeroad80

26-02-12, 13:27

Maybe I am old fashion but sea vew project needs beautiful view and not view of the shell (or some other oil company) refinery that caught fire.. Those eastern facing are beautiful (more ex?) but west facing is like facing industrial estate on the sea. Of cos west sun and risk of high rise replacing the golf view.

I am not sure about the other "sea-facing" towers, but Tower 3 and Tower 1A which faces the whole stretch of the marina yacht, sentosa, cable car and the star cruise at harbour front, is very nice. At night, the view lit up with sparkling cable cars, and sentosa night view, sometimes the residents got surprised by occasion fireworks. Not the typical east cost condo sea view separated by ECP and high road noise. Seriously, you can throw a baseball out of villa balcony and it can hit the yacht and the sea haha. I think currently the only view that can surpass this is marina bay view which are demanding higher prices.

But, definitely better than a "long kan" facing unit in punggol selling 1500psf, which are already sold out haha. This is the one, I don't understand no matter i'm old or new fashion.

Heng

26-02-12, 14:24

..... these project's prices have to collapse first.

Trust me, you are going to miss the boat soon, once plot 3 is launched.
3 more months to think about it. ....a win-win for owners as well. As long as I know this is not the last plot, there would be gains surely.

Surely regret if based on above, rush in to buy not knowing that only the bigger units ( 3 rooms and above ) or those above 11th floor got the good views and command the premium prices......

The other units can only ....

orangeroad80

26-02-12, 14:42

Heng just curious, what is your interest in this project ? I'm not vested in this project (for other reasons), but just as an observer of this thread, you seem determined to talk down this project as best as you can. R u looking to buy ? Or u really want to warn others not to buy ? Never had I seen a member so aggressively putting down a project so hard, with sales charts. Tis already goes beyond normal talkcock. It does look u have some agenda on this project.

Haha I also have the same feeling. That's what I asked Heng too in the previous posts, what is his real agenda ? And he only singled out and target at reflections, not the condos in sg as a whole haha :beats-me-man:

On the other hand, it shows that this project has attracted alot of attention and interested buyers, till there are ppl monitoring its prices every single moment haha and hoping only this condo will crash. I noticed the feb transactions for reflections are still going strong, while I must admit the resale figures of all the condos in sg is generally very quiet now. Yet, the response for new project sales/launch is good. Hmm...quite ironic isn't it, so sgporeans generally favor a higher priced new launch than a re-sale condo ?

orangeroad80

26-02-12, 14:47

Surely regret if based on above, rush in to buy not knowing that only the bigger units ( 3 rooms and above ) or those above 11th floor got the good views and command the premium prices......

The other units can only ....

Ppl now can go in and view mah. Not necessarily 3 rooms, there are actually 2 bedders gems with the view too and 10th and above, but ya with premium prices too ........ I would say you pay what you get

8kenshin

26-02-12, 21:46

Haha I also have the same feeling. That's what I asked Heng too in the previous posts, what is his real agenda ? And he only singled out and target at reflections, not the condos in sg as a whole haha :beats-me-man:

On the other hand, it shows that this project has attracted alot of attention and interested buyers, till there are ppl monitoring its prices every single moment haha and hoping only this condo will crash. I noticed the feb transactions for reflections are still going strong, while I must admit the resale figures of all the condos in sg is generally very quiet now. Yet, the response for new project sales/launch is good. Hmm...quite ironic isn't it, so sgporeans generally favor a higher priced new launch than a re-sale condo ?

Heng, are we right in thinking you may be trying to psycho the market down?

The posters on this board are probably mostly "free riders" in your attempt. If you can help bring prices down I may be a buyer:) On the other hand, as I am already vested in the area, so I don't mind if prices go up as well!

BTW, what is the unit number for your supposed loss? If you don't produce it the suspicion will be that you are making guesses. I have a 2007 price list and see Block H 01-15 sold at $1,285psf, Block 04-55 sold at $1,324 psf.

Also, are you sure you are correct with he stamp duty? Buyer's stamp duty did not apply retoactively.

Not criticising you efforts and appreciate your data, but I like to stict to fact rather than guesswork.

Heng

27-02-12, 05:51

FACTS & FIGURES only : like to believe only URA data, etc and not mere hearsay : so see attached for the HARD TRUTH ?

Lucky owner not affected by SSD otherwise may have to cough out another $ 245 k SSD : new buyer not so lucky if suffer buyer remorse after staying in unit &.....

Thus need to take time to buy and not rush in even if looks cheap at $1.3 k psf .....Must see actual unit and inspect carefully a number of times....

Unless owner got developer to absorb stamp duty, he paid $ 41k stamp duty at time of option exercise ?

as I am already vested in the area, so I don't mind if prices go up as well!

BTW, what is the unit number for your supposed loss? If you don't produce it the suspicion will be that you are making guesses. I have a 2007 price list and see Block H 01-15 sold at $1,285psf, Block 04-55 sold at $1,324 psf.

Also, are you sure you are correct with he stamp duty? Buyer's stamp duty did not apply retoactively.

Not criticising you efforts and appreciate your data, but I like to stict to fact rather than guesswork.

8kenshin

27-02-12, 07:26

FACTS & FIGURES only : like to believe only URA data, etc and not mere hearsay : so see attached for the HARD TRUTH ?

Lucky owner not affected by SSD otherwise may have to cough out another $ 245 k SSD : new buyer not so lucky if suffer buyer remorse after staying in unit &.....

Thus need to take time to buy and not rush in even if looks cheap at $1.3 k psf .....Must see actual unit and inspect carefully a number of times....

Unless owner got developer to absorb stamp duty, he paid $ 41k stamp duty at time of option exercise ?

Great, thanks. That's a good price.

On your question about "hard facts", I regard URA as providing a data point rather than the unvarnished truth. Leaving aside errors, there are any number of reasons why transactions filed on URA may not represent a real market price. There are cash out schemes to rip-off the CPF, overvaluations to rip-off banks, under-declaring to lower stamp duty, dishonest agents self dealing with uninformed buyers and so on.

When I see transactions at around market price, I've no problem accepting them as probably right. When the transaction is inexplicably lower than what a unit would fetch in a fire sale, I look for further data.

You seem like a very disciplined investor. In your opinion, do you think the market price is <$1400 for some units, or this in an outlier?

Heng

27-02-12, 08:22

as I am already vested in the area, so I don't mind if prices go up as well!

..... and see Block H 01-15 sold at $1,285psf, Block 04-55 sold at $1,324 psf.

.

Your prices are about right : similar stack #02-15 sold @ $ 1.29 k psf or $1.45 M : I did not know can get villa unit at such price from developer.

Villa units generally have better layout and bigger size for living......

Lovelle

27-02-12, 08:25

at 1.45 mil assuming instalment at $6-7k, rental need to be above 8k just to earn 1k - 2k of positive cashflow.

worth the risk ? Heng you are right.

devilplate

27-02-12, 08:37

at 1.45 mil assuming instalment at $6-7k, rental need to be above 8k just to earn 1k - 2k of positive cashflow.

worth the risk ? Heng you are right.

installment prolly abt 5k wif dp 20% and rental realistically fetch 5k only....so goto top up other overheads wif cash

if dp 40% den shd be ok

nowadays only MM can haf positive cashflow....but nobody noe wat will happen when major mm supply come online

Lovelle

27-02-12, 08:47

installment prolly abt 5k wif dp 20% and rental realistically fetch 5k only....so goto top up other overheads wif cash

if dp 40% den shd be ok

nowadays only MM can haf positive cashflow....but nobody noe wat will happen when major mm supply come online
thanks for correcting. also, read the post by Heng that maintenance easily $500 for 2 bedder ...high overhead...think can wait and wait now.

getting a 3 bedder at 1 mil to 1.2 mil will still get you some + cashflow but not at 1.3 and above.

singaporecondo99

27-02-12, 09:16

thanks for correcting. also, read the post by Heng that maintenance easily $500 for 2 bedder ...high overhead...think can wait and wait now.

getting a 3 bedder at 1 mil to 1.2 mil will still get you some + cashflow but not at 1.3 and above.
A 3 bedder Reflections for 1 million...dream on. I can't even get a caribbean 2 bedder for 1 million now.

I am also waiting for The Sail 3 bedder to drop to 1 mil haha and hope once I bought, within 6 mths, the market bounce back, and I can sell it for 3 mil.
That's my wishful thinking haha.

Better to invest in stocks, STI has grown more than 20% within 3 months.

Heng

27-02-12, 10:17

On the other hand, as I am already vested in the area, so I don't mind if prices go up as well!

......price list and see Block H 01-15 sold at $1,285psf, Block 04-55 sold at $1,324 psf.

.

... $1.437m or 1,362 psf for villa unit stack 55....exists in caveat listing....

8kenshin is correct in mentioning psf such as $1,285 psf etc and at such psf and quantum of about $1.4 m it is indeed a good buy for villa units.

Heng

27-02-12, 10:49

Trust me, you are going to miss the boat soon, once plot 3 is launched.
3 more months to think about it.

.

Those who rush in during 2007....and held till now ....?

Many units still available for rent / sale ...... at loss possibly

Another round of maintenance fee coming .... after paying maintenance fees since 5 December 2011, TOP date.

see attached from URA site

Lovelle

27-02-12, 11:36

A 3 bedder Reflections for 1 million...dream on. I can't even get a caribbean 2 bedder for 1 million now.

I am also waiting for The Sail 3 bedder to drop to 1 mil haha and hope once I bought, within 6 mths, the market bounce back, and I can sell it for 3 mil.
That's my wishful thinking haha.

Better to invest in stocks, STI has grown more than 20% within 3 months.

There are many 3 bedders from 1mil to 1.2mil like bartley res. No worries and no need to reflect at urself every mth need to top up from own market and subsidised tenant to stay

Rysk

27-02-12, 11:39

Hi Ah Heng,
Wow! $15xx psf I want!! :banana:
But are those Sentosa facing??

singaporecondo99

28-02-12, 00:06

I went to take a look at the 3 bedrooms villa in reflections last weekend, with 2 different facings - the yacht, w a star cruise and the golf view, which is nearer to the entrance, facing the golf net. I even requested to go back to the same units at night, to see their night views.

Sorry, im not to influence other ppl's choice here but just saying what i observe. The views are a big contrast. At night, it's total darkness for the golf view and I see HDB towers ... The golf during the day looks much nicer, occasionally with some water sparkling to hydrate the golf area. But once I think of the fact the golf view will be disappearing, I get worried. I also worried whether would there be long period of construction over the area, noise & etc.

I love the yacht view alot, it encompasses the sea and sentosa as the background. During the night, keppel bridge, sentosa and the gigantic star cruise were all lit up. IMO, it looks nicer than the day, I like it, my kind of dream home, but it's abit over my budget and the agent told me the owner is v firm on the price, has already paid off in cash (wah so rich) and no hurry to sell.... End up I didn't buy any of the 2 units. I suggest those who are serious in buying, you may want to see both day and night views, these are millions dollars units, no harm seeing more views before committing.

btw, the underground carparks there really give me headaches haha it's too big! But overall, i feel that it's a very nice project. If I have the money, I would want to get the yacht view villa. I mean if.

singaporecondo99

28-02-12, 00:17

dtrax

28-02-12, 00:20

What a beauty :) :)
Picture is worth a thousands words, courtesy of skyscrapercity

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6842118537_586974c0d9_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7151/6842116811_af6fcd0ab0_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7172/6842163301_3cf45e5b6f_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6842171353_905805ea41_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6842259761_92156b0b36_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7006/6842261241_73410d1a92_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6846749179_2079db595d_b.jpg

iwantgizmos

28-02-12, 01:55

What a beauty !

Heng

28-02-12, 06:15

btw, when i went in, I hardly see any residents....the carpark is empty...I am surprised that the project is already 900 plus unit sold out. I guess the owners (and residents here in this forum) are really damn rich, it feels more like a place for ppl to park their millions of dollars, than to stay inside haha, similar to sentosa cove.

Tne " empty " feel is likely due to many units are for SALE / RENT and thus there are so many advertisements in propertyguru, etc.....

After waiting for 5 years since 2007, another long wait .....

hyenergix

28-02-12, 06:25

Yeah, it looks quite empty; there's hardly any lights in the units at night. In general it is quite nice, except for the refinery view.

Heng

28-02-12, 08:00

I went to take a look ........

.... At night, it's total darkness for the golf view and I see HDB towers ... But once I think of the fact the golf view will be disappearing, I get worried. I also worried whether would there be long period of construction over the area, noise & etc.

.... End up I didn't buy any of the 2 units. I suggest those who are serious in buying, you may want to see both day and night views, these are millions dollars units, no harm seeing more views before committing.

btw, the underground carparks there really give me headaches haha it's too big! .

View before buying otherwise it will be a most ...... purchase
Many units not livable

Posted by Reflections viewer on Dec 29, 2011
Many of the tower units have bed rooms that have walls that come together in sharp v-angles, and with a pillar in the middle of the master bedroom! I think you would have trouble fitting a queen sized bed into the master bedroom. The designer architecture looks nice on the outside, but results in many units which are not livable

I am not the writer or in any way related to the above comments

hopeful

28-02-12, 08:33

wearing high heels is uncomfortable, yet it makes the wearer taller and sexier.
Would staying in Reflections be the same, the "stayer" be looked as more "atas"?

singaporecondo99

28-02-12, 09:08

I heard from the agent the maintenance fees range from 500-700+ for just 2-3 bedders. Is it true ? My current condo is only around 200. Wah, that's quite xiong... i can use the money to upgrade my Jetta to Merc C class already. Srry, if I sound cheapo haha :cheers1: sigh...some condo can see see nice can already.

Lovelle

28-02-12, 09:18

Lovelle

28-02-12, 09:22

orangeroad80

29-02-12, 11:16

I love the yacht view alot, it encompasses the sea and sentosa as the background. During the night, keppel bridge, sentosa and the gigantic star cruise were all lit up. IMO, it looks nicer than the day, I like it, my kind of dream home......
But overall, i feel that it's a very nice project. If I have the money, I would want to get the yacht view villa. I mean if.

Get the yacht, sentosa view, be it villa or tower. You can see fireworks every Fri and Sat. Even for a weekday, last night I saw a 10 mins fireworks from Sentosa from my master bedroom, not sure what's the event at sentosa. Fireworks, w a lit up big cruise docking at harbour front and unique view of sparkling cable cars, v nice ~

Heng

29-02-12, 11:20

Get the yacht, sentosa view, be it villa or tower. You can see fireworks every Fri and Sat. Even for a weekday, last night, I saw a 10 mins fireworks from Sentosa from my master bedroom, not sure what's the event at sentosa. Fireworks, w a lit up big cruise docking at harbour front and unique view of sparkling cable cars, this is a better million-dollar view than water town's.

So many units without the views you are enjoying : misery of spending more than a million $ for no view or disappearing view.

Thus equal amount of million $ but no joy... only misery for months to come ???

HP65

29-02-12, 13:52

Tne " empty " feel is likely due to many units are for SALE / RENT and thus there are so many advertisements in propertyguru, etc.....

After waiting for 5 years since 2007, another long wait .....

Having waited 5 years, what is another 5 years? If this project's price drop, other projects would have drop as well and even earlier. Golf view or sentosa view, they have their price. Golf view will go someday, and its cheaper for a reason...but that `some day' is at least 10-15 years away. By then, I'm sure great depression also would have come and gone. And being golf view, the rental yield would be higher as well since the price is cheaper. Tenants r not going to care in 10 years time the golf view is going away. So tell me, if I can rent it out for 10 years at good yield, would I sell it cheap? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out...or does it?

Why would anybody sell it cheap (even if golf view) to vultures who day and night is hovering over the towers looking for a fire-sale. In fact, the more I see interests in this project, the more I would hold my price. Even rent out at low low price I'm certain its a blue-chip ppty with its proximity to Vivocity, Keppel bay and sure support from Keppel to support/ protect the price since they have unsold units AS WELL AS the 3rd plot next to Carribean. I dare say, its one of the most beautiful project I have seen for a long time, inside and outside.

Lovelle

29-02-12, 14:48

if lose job or company in trouble during crisis. It's a question if still can pay installment to enjoy the view.

HP65

29-02-12, 15:01

if lose job or company in trouble during crisis. It's a question if still can pay installment to enjoy the view.

That's my point...if lose job or company in trouble, I'll rather be holding a unit at The Reflection that a unit at other condo. Whether golf, pillar or sentosa view, its still `safer' to hold a unit in this unit than other condo at comparable price. The very fact that even within a single forum like this can generate so much interest, it speaks volume with regards to the attractiveness of Reflection itself. People can try to talk down the development, but its clear its never going to work. And if prices do drop for this project, I'm pretty sure other developments would have dropped as well.

Investors who bought into this project are fully aware its highly competitive when searching for tenants. Those who can't hold and had to let go...usually are novice investors. And any loss they made count as `coaching fees'.

Heng

29-02-12, 16:36

something for every resident .. bus service ... if only to avoid the "confusing " carpark

Lovelle

29-02-12, 16:45

That's my point...if lose job or company in trouble, I'll rather be holding a unit at The Reflection that a unit at other condo. Whether golf, pillar or sentosa view, its still `safer' to hold a unit in this unit than other condo at comparable price. The very fact that even within a single forum like this can generate so much interest, it speaks volume with regards to the attractiveness of Reflection itself. People can try to talk down the development, but its clear its never going to work. And if prices do drop for this project, I'm pretty sure other developments would have dropped as well.

Investors who bought into this project are fully aware its highly competitive when searching for tenants. Those who can't hold and had to let go...usually are novice investors. And any loss they made count as `coaching fees'.

if lose job, then reflections price can still hold at 1700 psf ? i think it will be like $1400 by then. Later bank call up and ask for top up ,,

flxcat

29-02-12, 17:53

Having waited 5 years, what is another 5 years? If this project's price drop, other projects would have drop as well and even earlier. Golf view or sentosa view, they have their price. Golf view will go someday, and its cheaper for a reason...but that `some day' is at least 10-15 years away. By then, I'm sure great depression also would have come and gone. And being golf view, the rental yield would be higher as well since the price is cheaper. Tenants r not going to care in 10 years time the golf view is going away. So tell me, if I can rent it out for 10 years at good yield, would I sell it cheap? Doesn't take a genius to figure that out...or does it?

Why would anybody sell it cheap (even if golf view) to vultures who day and night is hovering over the towers looking for a fire-sale. In fact, the more I see interests in this project, the more I would hold my price. Even rent out at low low price I'm certain its a blue-chip ppty with its proximity to Vivocity, Keppel bay and sure support from Keppel to support/ protect the price since they have unsold units AS WELL AS the 3rd plot next to Carribean. I dare say, its one of the most beautiful project I have seen for a long time, inside and outside.

Probably Caribbean will suffer since keppel had more or less let go units they were holding. May be price will dip larger for Caribbean with your view. Hmm....:D

DaytonaSS

29-02-12, 21:36

visited a few unit for viewing. very nice i must say. Definitely would feel good staying in a area like that. Personally i would go for the villa units, near to the small water inlets with some sea and yatch views. The BBQ area see already also steam! Relax there will a beer chilling out is as good as it gets.

Even got firesale units also easily $2-3m. At 40% down payment for 2nd property, how many can afford?

Seriously i dont understand how can anyone dont like this kind of nice environment. The question is only affordability lah. I mean if u dont like nice design(in fact best in Singapore), dont like sea view or even greenery golf course, or even the best jogging track in Singapore, luxuriously spaceous nice lobby among other nice things i too lazy to type...... one must be staying in a GCB or something.

Best development in my view. No $$$ no talk.

DaytonaSS

29-02-12, 21:40

That's my point...if lose job or company in trouble, I'll rather be holding a unit at The Reflection that a unit at other condo. Whether golf, pillar or sentosa view, its still `safer' to hold a unit in this unit than other condo at comparable price. The very fact that even within a single forum like this can generate so much interest, it speaks volume with regards to the attractiveness of Reflection itself. People can try to talk down the development, but its clear its never going to work. And if prices do drop for this project, I'm pretty sure other developments would have dropped as well.

Investors who bought into this project are fully aware its highly competitive when searching for tenants. Those who can't hold and had to let go...usually are novice investors. And any loss they made count as `coaching fees'.

agree with u bro. But i wont rent out such nice development, own-self enjoy more shiok. how to find something to up this environment?

DaytonaSS

29-02-12, 21:49

So many units without the views you are enjoying : misery of spending more than a million $ for no view or disappearing view.

Thus equal amount of million $ but no joy... only misery for months to come ???

paiseh bro heng, i see alot of OCR developement also selling $1m facing HDB or worst...... r they in misery? IF u dont mind, look out your window, what do u see ah?

btw thanks for some of your sharing. U looking for a nice unit there? i saw a firesale for villa unit (half facing carribeans n yatch area) only selling $1400++, snap up in no time. Owner lost $100 psf i hear. Too bad no enough ammo to pick a 3rd one. If not will be a great buy.

Heng

01-03-12, 06:38

...... r they in misery? IF u dont mind, look out your window, what do u see ah?

btw thanks for some of your sharing. U looking for a nice unit there? i saw a firesale for villa unit (half facing carribeans n yatch area) only selling $1400++, snap up in no time. Owner lost $100 psf i hear. .

Equal misery for ALL ok. BUT others also pay about same $ and got sea view, better layout, higher floor ? Thus it is better to view many times before buying to avoid many days viewing in misery ... Reflections on "why I rush in why they rush to get out ? "

$100 psf lost is very small...Actually owner lost more because back in 2007, any property easily doubled in value before the cooling measures were implemented.

That was my experience and that of many friends ....buy at $1.5m and sell at $ 3m was what owner of Reflections missed ?

For non-residential propertyies, it was even better, buy at about $500k , sell at close to 3 times that price.

HP65

01-03-12, 08:39

Equal misery for ALL ok. BUT others also pay about same $ and got sea view, better layout, higher floor ? Thus it is better to view many times before buying to avoid many days viewing in misery ... Reflections on "why I rush in why they rush to get out ? "

$100 psf lost is very small...Actually owner lost more because back in 2007, any property easily doubled in value before the cooling measures were implemented.

That was my experience and that of many friends ....buy at $1.5m and sell at $ 3m was what owner of Reflections missed ?

For non-residential propertyies, it was even better, buy at about $500k , sell at close to 3 times that price.

I'm pretty sure investors of Reflection do not bet on this project alone. In fact, it was pretty clear they were probably multiple ppty owners. Besides, what's the point of trying to tell people the opportunity forgone if they had invested in Reflection? Does their opportunity forgone benefitted you in any way? Or do you have a sinister joy in seeing somebody lost opportunities :rolleyes:

I dunno, it seems like you are trying to wage a pyscological war on the marginal investors who might really have bet all their savings on this 1 project (and also happen to surf in this forum). All i can say is there will be far and few in between and i suggest you strike a close relationship with specialist agents of Reflection to search for such `firesales'. It reminds me of The Rivergate saga back in 2009....lots of similarities...big fund holding, iconic project, lots of interests......

And besides, how can you say equal misery for all? If you think you can press down the prices of golf view just because they are close to sea view price, maybe you SHOULD then buy the sea view since by your reasoning, the sea view is under valued lol. In time to come, I bet you the better facing unit will command a higher price....

Or your budget only allows you to go for OCR resale 99LH projects....which is the feeling I'm getting from all your numerous posts...ie trying to buy reflection golf view at OCR prices :doh: Which means, you DO see the value of this project...even if its golf view or pillar view or whatever poo layout. And if you see value, what makes you think other investors doesn't :cheers6:

devilplate

01-03-12, 08:52

dun tok about view first la.....

i tink this project shd at least command 1300psf++ for very low flr no view units....

villas at 1400psf can consider wor....

how about interlace? hmmm

Heng

01-03-12, 09:03

Lovelle

01-03-12, 09:12

dun tok about view first la.....

i tink this project shd at least command 1300psf++ for very low flr no view units....

villas at 1400psf can consider wor....

how about interlace? hmmm

when i viewed D'leedon. Agent also ask me to consider interlace.

devilplate

01-03-12, 09:21

when i viewed D'leedon. Agent also ask me to consider interlace.
i did consider interlace too....

i missed the 2bdr 11-168

wakaka

HP65

01-03-12, 09:59

URA data can be a good guide to prices :

Helps to avoid buyer's remorse.

Otherwise no idea if PAID too much for unit ?

Agents always put up prices as high as possible as they expect bargaining by prospects.

Wah, super helpful leh, Heng.....even advice people where to get info. Actually, for seasoned investors, they have lots of sources for transparent info, ura is one of the least detailed. No info of unit number, if its resale/ developer sale or even late lodgement (especially useful for just TOPped project during the time when DPS was offered).

As such, your `kind' advice might even be misleading....misleading others to think that they might be able to get the price now when its actually the original purchase price 2-4 years back :D In the end, others might missed out on an opportunity thinking that is current mkt price when in fact was historical price.

Pls, if you are serious about ppty investment, invest in a paid system or better still, get close to good agents to print out the detailed info for you. Some of these agents are even close friends of mine now....

Lovelle

01-03-12, 10:58

i did consider interlace too....

i missed the 2bdr 11-168

wakaka

interflace look majestic from AYE but it doesn't match ur investment criterias such as :

mrt, location, etc

why u looking ?

HP65

01-03-12, 11:02

agree with u bro. But i wont rent out such nice development, own-self enjoy more shiok. how to find something to up this environment?

Unfortunately, its too far away from my kid's school (unless they study in RVPS) and they currently walk to school and the unit is a bit smaller than my current place. Otherwise, its going to be a nice place to stay. In fact, i do intend to retire here in the future....near enuf to amenities, hospital, walk by the nature or sea and definitely more peaceful than another ppty of mine which faces the sea AND ECP....

eseko1

01-03-12, 11:27

interflace look majestic from AYE but it doesn't match ur investment criterias such as :

mrt, location, etc

why u looking ?

I agree, I was driving along Alexandra rd and saw interlace, is like a superstructure sitting on top of the hill. I wander how it will looks like when it is complete.

Heng

02-03-12, 06:20

Pls, if you are serious about ppty investment, invest in a paid system or better still, get close to good agents to print out the detailed info for you. Some of these agents are even close friends of mine now....

Many thanks for your advice. Many agents provided me with data from their paid systems and I find that both FREE & PAID data are in agreement , except that paid data has additional info such as unit numbers, caveat numbers, owner names, etc. BUT prices and dates of OTP / S&P are same.

Posted here for easy reference to those who do not want to go out of this site to URA : a government web-site and thus with responsibility to the general public even if provided data is free.

Rysk

02-03-12, 08:41

Many thanks for your advice. Many agents provided me with data from their paid systems and I find that both FREE & PAID data are in agreement , except that paid data has additional info such as unit numbers, caveat numbers, owner names, etc. BUT prices and dates of OTP / S&P are same.

Posted here for easy reference to those who do not want to go out of this site to URA : a government web-site and thus with responsibility to the general public even if provided data is free.

Hi Ah Heng,
Thanks for the data..
But till now you haven't let me know.. Are those good facing? Meaning facing RWS.. if not, what kind of psf for those with RWS facing.. I saw URA data which you hid it from your data which is high psf$$

Those high psf are the good facing one??

1,346sf - $2,239psf - Feb 2012
2,336sf - $1,987psf - Jan 2012
1,367sf - $2,600psf - Dec 2012

REFLECTIONS AT KEPPEL BAY KEPPEL BAY 1,346Strata 2,239 Feb-12
REFLECTIONS AT KEPPEL BAY KEPPEL BAY 2,336Strata 1,987 Jan-12
REFLECTIONS AT KEPPEL BAY KEPPEL BAY 1,367Strata 2,600 Dec-11

Heng

02-03-12, 08:54

Hi Ah Heng,
Thanks for the data..
But till now you haven't let me know.. Are those good facing? Meaning facing RWS.. if not, what kind of psf for those with RWS facing.. I saw URA data which you hid it which is high psf$$

Those high psf are the good facing one??

I am only focussing on 2 bedders : those penthouses or big units will have nice sea views and even with high psf $ will not lose money because demand will be there. Just as in big cars, even with $70k coe, sales are just as good.

BUT if you buy the small units and they have no views,etc...resale / rental is going to be difficult ? so even with low psf of $1,400 , does it still make sense ?

PRIME, CHOICE units are usually for own stay.. premium psf ok ..
BUT those with no views ???