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noblebaby
22-06-08, 00:40
Launching Soon... A Brand New Condo In Bishan

- 3-Bedroom, 4-Bedroom, Suite and Penthouse
- Full Condo Facilities with 50m lap ppol
- Within 1km to Catholic High School
- Near reputed school
- Close to amenities such as Junction 8 Shopping Centre, Bishan Sports Hall, Bishan Stadium
- Easy access to City via CTE, PIE, and the MRT
- Foreigners Eligible

www.simlian.com.sg (http://www.simlian.com.sg)

Anyone interested? I'm waiting for the launch, waiting for more info from developer :)

Unregistered101
23-06-08, 00:19
Launching Soon... A Brand New Condo In Bishan

- 3-Bedroom, 4-Bedroom, Suite and Penthouse
- Full Condo Facilities with 50m lap ppol
- Within 1km to Catholic High School
- Near reputed school
- Close to amenities such as Junction 8 Shopping Centre, Bishan Sports Hall, Bishan Stadium
- Easy access to City via CTE, PIE, and the MRT
- Foreigners Eligible

www.simlian.com.sg (http://www.simlian.com.sg)

Anyone interested? I'm waiting for the launch, waiting for more info from developer :)



And surrounded by HDB :(

Interested
23-06-08, 11:58
Near Bishan MRT or not????????? Freehold?

BV
23-06-08, 13:26
Near Bishan MRT or not????????? Freehold?

Answers to your question:

Near MRT? Not within walking distance (unless you wanna walk 20-25 mins each time, you have to take a bus to Bishan MRT station).

Not freehold. 99 yrs.

Wonder what price it'll be. Anyone called up sim lian yet? Anything over 800psf would be overpriced in today's market, especially when they only have large units starting from 3 bedders onwards.

home-run
23-06-08, 13:28
well vip invites for developer's clients shld start this coming wed 25th June.
Then 26th and 27th June is the VIP invites for agents. (i can foward invitation letter to u by email if u are keen to come have a look)
Sat 28th June most prob will public launch.
By then most of the nice facing units towards Bishan Pk will be taken...
maybe facing hdb will have a lot to choose from
This will be a very chop chop affair...as most of sim lian's projects are sold out within the 1st month of launch.
Well, if ur keen to find out more details, can visit my website @ www.wilsonlimot.multiply.com (http://www.wilsonlimot.multiply.com)

I'm going for developer's briefing this afternoon...will keep u guys updated.
May u get ur choice units =) cheers:cheers6:

noblebaby
23-06-08, 20:19
well vip invites for developer's clients shld start this coming wed 25th June.
Then 26th and 27th June is the VIP invites for agents. (i can foward invitation letter to u by email if u are keen to come have a look)
Sat 28th June most prob will public launch.
By then most of the nice facing units towards Bishan Pk will be taken...
maybe facing hdb will have a lot to choose from
This will be a very chop chop affair...as most of sim lian's projects are sold out within the 1st month of launch.
Well, if ur keen to find out more details, can visit my website @ www.wilsonlimot.multiply.com (http://www.wilsonlimot.multiply.com)

I'm going for developer's briefing this afternoon...will keep u guys updated.
May u get ur choice units =) cheers:cheers6:

Any news for the price?

kal
23-06-08, 20:22
def more than 800+ psf

noblebaby
23-06-08, 20:27
def more than 800+ psf

wow, 960k upward @ bishan :eek:

Lily
23-06-08, 20:44
wow, 960k upward @ bishan :eek:
Not surprising, older projects like Rafflesia is still holding at that level.

Interested
23-06-08, 20:58
Not surprising, older projects like Rafflesia is still holding at that level.

How about the sizes of the units? Total no.: of units for the development? When you said $960K upwards, what is the psf?

Unregistered.
23-06-08, 21:00
Not surprising, older projects like Rafflesia is still holding at that level.
...but no takers. Still many units unsold.

John
23-06-08, 22:33
Reliable source reveals that those units facing Bishan Park and future river to be converted from the canal will sell at $850psf whereas those units facing the main road will sell at $700psf.

home-run
24-06-08, 00:12
hi guys, not to worry abt the psf so much cuz all of sim lian's project are PRICED TO SELL.
Psf est is around 800-850psf.
Launching Very Very Very soon...so if you are keen to get invited for the preview, pls drop me a sms/call/email. My details are at my website at www.wilsonlimot.multiply.com (http://www.wilsonlimot.multiply.com)

As preview period is very short then the public launch, u are strongly encouraged to come during preview so as to have the highest chances to secure ur choice units & choice facings. It is est there are close to 4000 enquiries for this proj of 616 units alone....if u think u have a 50-50 chance of buying, pls bring cheque to showflat as well.
Last but not least, SPECIAL FINANCING SCHEME is avail to make this proj more attractive but for only a limited period of time only.

:spliff: Cheers

Unregistered311
24-06-08, 08:12
hi guys, not to worry abt the psf so much cuz all of sim lian's project are PRICED TO SELL.
Psf est is around 800-850psf.
Launching Very Very Very soon...so if you are keen to get invited for the preview, pls drop me a sms/call/email. My details are at my website at www.wilsonlimot.multiply.com (http://www.wilsonlimot.multiply.com)

As preview period is very short then the public launch, u are strongly encouraged to come during preview so as to have the highest chances to secure ur choice units & choice facings. It is est there are close to 4000 enquiries for this proj of 616 units alone....if u think u have a 50-50 chance of buying, pls bring cheque to showflat as well.
Last but not least, SPECIAL FINANCING SCHEME is avail to make this proj more attractive but for only a limited period of time only.

:spliff: Cheers

800-850psf, so exp!!! at current market, not many will buy, just wait and see.

what kind of special financing scheme? 5% downpayment?

kaller
24-06-08, 09:28
800-850psf, so exp!!! at current market, not many will buy, just wait and see.

what kind of special financing scheme? 5% downpayment?


developer pay u 5% to book a unit... how about that.... $800psf.... my foot loh

No Good
24-06-08, 10:34
Avoid Bishan unless u want to endure daily morn and evening traffic jam, CTE nightmare and horrifying ERP charges. Even if you dont drive, this not near MRT. So cannot drive and cannot take MRT, what for?


800-850psf, so exp!!! at current market, not many will buy, just wait and see.

what kind of special financing scheme? 5% downpayment?

home-run
24-06-08, 21:57
i think u must be staying hdb for a long time. Most condos have shuttle buses to mrt and shopping malls...unfortunately, this is one of those condo:tongue3:

home-run
24-06-08, 22:05
oh yah, when subsale can come find me, surely will be above 900psf by then...or maybe more:doh:

Unregistered.
24-06-08, 22:46
oh yah, when subsale can come find me, surely will be above 900psf by then...or maybe more:doh:
Dont worry big drop coming for sure. Subsale will be lower than developers price. Speculators would be dumping.

home-run
24-06-08, 22:52
yah i foresee the big drop coming too ... maybe in the future, hdb will be more expensive than condo...:scared-1:

No CTE
24-06-08, 23:11
I own a car. My family has 3 cars so we don't look for condos with shuttle bus to MRT. Even if there is shuttle bus, it comes out from your own pocket as part of your monthly maintenance charge - just in case you're not aware. I rent out a few other condos and in many of them, after the initial "free" period, the council actually votes out the shuttle bus service as most condo dwellers drive. The shuttle bus service amounts to $8k a month as part of the condo maintenance - I know because I was in the MC before.

Anyway, why stay in condo, take shuttle bus to MRT station, then take MRT? If can't afford a car, then just stay in HDB. But for those who drive, my kind advice is to avoid any place that requires travelling through CTE. I believe those who take shuttle bus and MRT to and from work are a minority in most condos.


i think u must be staying hdb for a long time. Most condos have shuttle buses to mrt and shopping malls...unfortunately, this is one of those condo:tongue3:

noblebaby
24-06-08, 23:28
yah i foresee the big drop coming too ... maybe in the future, hdb will be more expensive than condo...:scared-1:

dun worry, no body will buy. agent eat grass now, im sure you are one of them. is agent your part-time job?

What CTE
24-06-08, 23:48
I own a car. My family has 3 cars so we don't look for condos with shuttle bus to MRT. Even if there is shuttle bus, it comes out from your own pocket as part of your monthly maintenance charge - just in case you're not aware. I rent out a few other condos and in many of them, after the initial "free" period, the council actually votes out the shuttle bus service as most condo dwellers drive. The shuttle bus service amounts to $8k a month as part of the condo maintenance - I know because I was in the MC before.

Anyway, why stay in condo, take shuttle bus to MRT station, then take MRT? If can't afford a car, then just stay in HDB. But for those who drive, my kind advice is to avoid any place that requires travelling through CTE. I believe those who take shuttle bus and MRT to and from work are a minority in most condos.

Why be a beggar and borrow money from banks? If dont have money for condo live in 3 room with your head held high free from debt rather than show 3 cars and 3 condos and sweat and work like a donkey repaying the bank and if something happens to you put the whole family under the debt burden.

home-run
24-06-08, 23:53
agreeed...if u have the cash to do full payment, why not...u can save lots on interest which will otherwise be donated to banks...

btw, agts do love to eat grass...it makes them healthier. That's why they live longer.
I respect their job as much as any other jobs.
They are ppl like u trying to make a living, raise a family
so why all the prejudice against them haha:tsk-tsk:

iridrium
25-06-08, 10:01
agreeed...if u have the cash to do full payment, why not...u can save lots on interest which will otherwise be donated to banks...

The reason why not to make full payment is to maxmise the benefit from leveraging.

If you borrowed from the bank at an average interest rate of 3.0%, and by leveraging on the excess cash you have to put into any investment that brings you more than 3% return, you are already benefiting from it.

And we have yet to factor in inflation. Property loan is a good hedge against inflation as the bank covers the inflation rate for you.

So loan is good if you know how to use it.

Darius
25-06-08, 20:39
The reason why not to make full payment is to maxmise the benefit from leveraging.

If you borrowed from the bank at an average interest rate of 3.0%, and by leveraging on the excess cash you have to put into any investment that brings you more than 3% return, you are already benefiting from it.

And we have yet to factor in inflation. Property loan is a good hedge against inflation as the bank covers the inflation rate for you.

So loan is good if you know how to use it.

Makes sense. I am gearing up to buy an investment property...

Unregistered2
25-06-08, 23:16
start selling now. go visit showroom

home-run
26-06-08, 00:51
hi dear friends, close to 10% of 616 units are sold in Day 1.
Average psf is from 700-850 range....

Address : 2/6 Bishan Street 25
Tenure : 99 yr leasehold
Land Area : 235,000sqft
Units : 616

*3 BR / 3+study : 1200-1600sqft
*4 BR / 4+study : 1700-1800sqft
*Penthouse (Suite - Single Storey) : 3000sqft
*Penthouse (Duplex) : 2500-3500sqft


2 Towers of 39 storey makes this new condominium the most iconic launch in Bishan to date. Located within 1 km to Catholic High School and with Raffles Institution & Ai Tong School in the vicinity, Bishan is an attractive location as an education hub. With the future Circleline(Marymount Station) coming up together with the existing Bishan MRT station, accessibility has never been so convenient. Junction 8, Thompson Plaza & Sin Ming Plaza makes shopping a breeze.

PRICED TO SELL!!!
Bring cheque to book choice units before official launch in 1 days time!!!
Special Financing Scheme makes this project more attractive to buy.
For more details,
pls call me @ 81835132 or
visit my website at http://wilsonlimot.multiply.com
Cheers:cheers6:

home investor
26-06-08, 08:17
hi dear friends, close to 10% of 616 units are sold in Day 1.
Average psf is from 700-850 range....

Address : 2/6 Bishan Street 25
Tenure : 99 yr leasehold
Land Area : 235,000sqft
Units : 616

*3 BR / 3+study : 1200-1600sqft
*4 BR / 4+study : 1700-1800sqft
*Penthouse (Suite - Single Storey) : 3000sqft
*Penthouse (Duplex) : 2500-3500sqft


2 Towers of 39 storey makes this new condominium the most iconic launch in Bishan to date. Located within 1 km to Catholic High School and with Raffles Institution & Ai Tong School in the vicinity, Bishan is an attractive location as an education hub. With the future Circleline(Marymount Station) coming up together with the existing Bishan MRT station, accessibility has never been so convenient. Junction 8, Thompson Plaza & Sin Ming Plaza makes shopping a breeze.

PRICED TO SELL!!!
Bring cheque to book choice units before official launch in 1 days time!!!
Special Financing Scheme makes this project more attractive to buy.
For more details,
pls call me @ 81835132 or
visit my website at http://wilsonlimot.multiply.com
Cheers:cheers6:

I already bought 3

Unregistered99
26-06-08, 09:59
I bought the balance 58 units.

Unregistered100
26-06-08, 13:46
I bought the balance 58 units.
Can you sell me all?

Darius
26-06-08, 20:35
Lots of large units ie > 1200 sf. Too big for me, only can consider the 1200 sf one.

Down Down
26-06-08, 21:15
Singapore factory output down 12.8% on-year in May
Posted: 26 June 2008 1323 hrs

SINGAPORE - Singapore's industrial production in May slumped by a much-bigger-than-expected 12.8 per cent from a year ago, pulled down by a 55.1 per cent drop in biomedical output, the government said Thursday.

Analysts had projected a fall of 2.5 per cent for May.

On a seasonally adjusted basis, industrial output last month fell 5.7 per cent from April, the Economic Development Board (EDB) said in its monthly report.

"Production in May dropped 12.8 per cent compared to the same month last year, largely due to a contraction in the biomedical manufacturing cluster," said the EDB.

The sharp plunge in biomedical output was due mainly to the pharmaceuticals segment, which shrank 58.2 per cent because a different batch of ingredients was produced, it said.

Precision engineering also declined last month with output down 4.8 per cent on the year, but other sectors fared better. The EDB reported increased output in electronics, chemicals and transport engineering.

Electronics output gained 3.8 per cent in May. Almost all electronics segments recorded higher production but information and communications, and consumer electronics, were exceptions, the EDB said.

Chemicals production was up 2.2 per cent and transport engineering increased 13.0 per cent, boosted by the robust marine and offshore engineering industries, it said.

Singapore's monthly manufacturing report is widely monitored as the sector accounts for a third of the city state's gross domestic product, worth 243 billion Singapore dollars in 2007.

The export-reliant economy grew slower than estimated in the year's first quarter, at 6.7 per cent, as demand weakened due to a slowdown in the United States and other key markets, the government has said. - AFP/ir

CNA - June 26 '08

Up Up
26-06-08, 22:13
June 26, 2008

Citi sees no oversupply of homes in next two years

It estimates only 60% of the 30,000 units forecast will be completed, so fall in prices will be modest

By Joyce Teo, Property Correspondent


ANALYSTS from Citigroup have stuck their necks out to dismiss some market predictions of a crippling property glut in the next two years.

Official figures show that around 30,000 homes will be completed in the next two years, but Citi reckons only around 60 per cent will likely be ready.

If the bank's forecast is accurate, it could mean that downward pressure on prices will not be as great as some had feared.

Citi's report on Singapore property, which came out on Tuesday, pointed to where previous predictions may have got it wrong.

It stated that by the end of March, there were 6,000 collective sale units that had yet to be demolished.

Some of the delays are because of legal challenges over sales, as well as developers extending lease periods for owners due to the weak primary market, Citi said.

It estimated that there will be 8,200 units completed next year and 10,200 in 2010, assuming no further collective sales are done.

These numbers are way below market expectations of 12,500 units next year and 17,500 units in 2010, it said.

These higher supply numbers had led many experts to conclude that an oversupply was on the cards.

But Citi stated: 'We have always argued that such estimates are not always accurate and they often get revised downward over time.'

However, it did not elaborate further on the reasons for its lower supply projections.

Knight Frank director of research and consultancy Nicholas Mak said the direct impact of the supply completion figures on prices is limited because most of these homes would already have been sold.

But a large supply of homes for occupation would negatively affect rentals, and this would in turn hit prices, he added.

Savills Singapore also believes the supply figures released by the Urban Redevelopment Authority are too high.

Mr Ku Swee Yong, its director of marketing and business development, said completion delays in collective sales, as well as delayed launches, have not been factored in.

'There are insufficient construction resources, which means there will likely be delays,' he added.

'Prices of mid- to high-end properties will fall but not to the extent of the 30 per cent to 40 per cent drop predicted by some analysts.'

Banks like Credit Suisse and Barclays Capital have forecast drops of up to 40 per cent in rents and prices, but Citi tips a fall of up to 30 per cent, and largely only in high-end homes.

Citi expects this sector will suffer from falling demand, particularly as expatriates and locals keep downgrading.

That will put downward pressure on rents of prime homes and further pressure on prices, it said.

Citi also said a long downturn like the one that caught out many buyers in the late 1990s and early 2000s is unlikely.

This is because resale volumes are still at above average levels, reflecting strong genuine demand. There is no sign of overbuilding or an overall housing shortage.

Also, mass market homes remain highly affordable and are supported by high rental yields of more than 5 per cent, Citi said.

'Due to the sharp rise, we believe high-end residential is likely to suffer the brunt of the 20 per cent to 30 per cent price decline while the mass market should remain fairly firm.'

The mid-tier segment is likely to fall by 10 per cent to 20 per cent, it said. These are from a high base.

Luxury home prices have surged by 149 per cent since the troughs in 2004.

Prices in the mid-tier and mass-market segments rose by a still robust 79 per cent and 39 per cent respectively.

mr funny
27-06-08, 10:15
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/companies/story/0,4574,285368,00.html?

Published June 27, 2008

Ho Bee's robust sales prompt more launches

By KALPANA RASHIWALA


SOME developers are riding on the pick-up in home-buying mood created by Ho Bee's Dakota Residences preview last week to launch their own projects.

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2008-06-27/BT_IMAGES_CRCLOVER27.jpg
Upbeat: Sim Lian Grp has sold about 100 units of the Clover By The Park condo since its Wednesday preview

Mainboard-listed Sim Lian Group, for one, has sold about 100 units of its Clover By The Park condo at Bishan St 22 since it began previewing the development on Wednesday at an average price of $750 psf.

Next to Kovan MRT Station, an outfit controlled by UOB-Kay Hian star stockbroker pair Han Seng Juan and David Loh Kim Kang is getting ready to release its 512-unit condo, according to industry sources.

BT understands that Centurion Kovan, which is developing the project, plans to preview the condo soon to 'remisier friends' of Messrs Han and Loh. There are also plans to preview the condo overseas, including China. The average price is expected to be in the $850-900 psf range.

The duo bought the 189,812 sq ft site at a state tender in October last year for around $436 psf per plot ratio.

Over in Bishan, Sim Lian is developing two 39-storey blocks with a total of 616 units for the Clover By The Park condo. The first phase released earlier this week comprises one tower with 308 units. It is near good schools like Catholic High (within 1 km), Ai Tong Primary School and Raffles Institution. 'Clover By The Park features three-bedroom and four-bedroom units to luxurious penthouses and suites of six bedrooms,' Sim Lian said in a release yesterday.

Ho Bee has sold 95 units at Dakota Residences since last Friday. The average price is $976 psf. All three projects are 99-year leasehold.

Newbie
27-06-08, 14:51
Went to showflat on Wed. Not too bad but too much space allocated to balconies, feel that its a waste. Was quoted $790/psf for quite high floor. Am thinking of getting a resale in De royale (FH)....anyone got any views? Understand that De royale was launched at $650, latest transacted price $796/psf.

Unregistered3333
27-06-08, 15:31
Went to showflat on Wed. Not too bad but too much space allocated to balconies, feel that its a waste. Was quoted $790/psf for quite high floor. Am thinking of getting a resale in De royale (FH)....anyone got any views? Understand that De royale was launched at $650, latest transacted price $796/psf.

Just now one agent called me, from orangetee. told me 40% has been sold, really that hot?

Unregister
27-06-08, 16:04
Just now one agent called me, from orangetee. told me 40% has been sold, really that hot?

To be fair... it is hot... but may not be for the right reason...

money
29-06-08, 11:16
To be fair... it is hot... but may not be for the right reason...
what you mean? i rather buy rafflesia or bishan 8, even though older esp the latter.

ABC
29-06-08, 15:46
what you mean? i rather buy rafflesia or bishan 8, even though older esp the latter.
Why?
Just know that the 4 stacks of units facing the park have been sold since the official launch on Friday. Endless stream of visitors to the showflat way into the night over the weekends. How come?

Property hot again?
29-06-08, 16:58
Looks like property becoming hot again in SG? Maybe everyone sick of the poor performance of the stock market and banking on property? Anyway, this thing has an unglam HDB address. Can't tell from IC whether it is condo or HDB.


Why?
Just know that the 4 stacks of units facing the park have been sold since the official launch on Friday. Endless stream of visitors to the showflat way into the night over the weekends. How come?

Cloverer
29-06-08, 17:46
Great potential with the upcoming PUB ABC project.
http://www.pubabc.com/

All park facing are gone!!!

Buyer88
30-06-08, 07:02
Great potential with the upcoming PUB ABC project.
http://www.pubabc.com/

All park facing are gone!!!

196 units sold since Wed!!!! abt 66% of released units.

Wonder how's Dakota Residences performance .....

location - both got merits... but Dakota may appeal to ang moh next time... cos near city and got mrt.

price - Clover is cheaper by 100 psf.

mr funny
30-06-08, 09:58
http://www.straitstimes.com/Money/Story/STIStory_253013.html

June 30, 2008

LEASEHOLD PROJECT

Buyers snap up 195 units in Bishan condo


IN A welcome departure from the generally quiet market so far this year, the latest property launch - of the 616-unit Clover by the Park - has generated sales of 195 units so far.

Sim Lian Group, which is developing the condo, said that as at 8pm last night, it had sold 195 out of the 308 units that were released for sale since last Friday's official launch.

The 99-year leasehold condominium has large units, suites and penthouses.

The eight suites, of 3,057 sq ft each, were all snapped up, indicating that buyers were keen on larger units.

Buyers were mostly families upgrading from HDB flats. They picked up units priced between $907,000 and $2.68 million, or $599 per sq ft (psf) to $858 psf, said Sim Lian Land's executive director, Ms Diana Kuik.

The average price worked out to be about $750 psf.

Ms Kuik said potential buyers thronged the showflat and some stayed so late that the developer closed the showflat only at midnight on Saturday and around 10pm last night.

However, about 100 units had already been sold by Thursday, following the development's soft launch on Wednesday.

The property market has largely been quiet recently, as sentiment dipped drastically early in the year. Sales volume has plunged dramatically from the numbers registered during the boom times of last year. While the mood is still cautious, a few recent launches have registered encouraging sales.

Savills Singapore's director of marketing and business development, Mr Ku Swee Yong, said: 'Serious buyers were probably spoilt for choice this weekend, shopping among the few launches which are attractively priced.'

A week ago, the 99-year leasehold Dakota Residences in Dakota Crescent and the freehold The Amery in Telok Kurau were released for sale.

JOYCE TEO

Be Humble
30-06-08, 16:43
Visited the showflat last sat.
Wah, it was really overwhelming response! The agent told me it is already 80% sold since official launch of the project. Looks like aunties grabbing sales items from departmental store. Just wonder, are Singaporean really so rich that they dun mind owing their whole life to the bank? Most of the newly launch condos are selling like hot cakes..

Everyone is talking inflation, but it seem like this is not an issue at all. Im just so surprise of the overwhelming response. The agent who attended to me, when he realised that im not able to make a decision on the spot after abit of push from him, he just excused himself and walked away. Anyway, left all with the not so nice units.

Frankly speaking, the condo is nice and big, but surrounded closely by HDB, feel uncomfortable to get a private property and when you look out of your window, HDB flats are just right infront of you (is so near and “nice” view) and i do agree that is inconvenient as it is not within walking distance to the MRT. (Accordingly to the agent, is about 2.5 bus stops away from the MRT)

It does not mean that if a person stays in a condo, he has to drive. He can have the money to buy a car, but he may not want too. My husband wanted to buy a car for me to drive to work, but I’m not the type that love to drive, I rather take public transport, so i do not think is necessary to be so houlian by giving that kind of comment , saying if a person doesn’t own a car, then dun stay in condo. (Sound like one of the MP’s daughter ah) Ultimately, if a person is rich enough, there is no need for him to get the loan from the bank in the first place. To show off how rich he is, just buy the whole house and pay in full at go! Agree?
Just my personal thought.

dennis fan
30-06-08, 17:02
[QUOTE=Be Humble]Ultimately, if a person is rich enough, there is no need for him to get the loan from the bank in the first place. To show off how rich he is, just buy the whole house and pay in full at go! Agree?
[QUOTE]

Dennis Ng would disagree wholeheartedly with you there.

To him, paying full for a house is STUPID as the opportunity cost is tremendous! Think of how much you could make with that kind of capital in the stock markets.

Plus, a house is an appreciating asset, so whatever interest accrued on the house will be more than offset by any capital gains and rental gains (if any).

Don't shoot me ah. Shoot Dennis. He can be found on housingloan.sg

Unregistered223
30-06-08, 17:25
Visited the showflat last sat.
Wah, it was really overwhelming response! The agent told me it is already 80% sold since official launch of the project. Looks like aunties grabbing sales items from departmental store. Just wonder, are Singaporean really so rich that they dun mind owing their whole life to the bank? Most of the newly launch condos are selling like hot cakes..

Everyone is talking inflation, but it seem like this is not an issue at all. Im just so surprise of the overwhelming response. The agent who attended to me, when he realised that im not able to make a decision on the spot after abit of push from him, he just excused himself and walked away. Anyway, left all with the not so nice units.

Frankly speaking, the condo is nice and big, but surrounded closely by HDB, feel uncomfortable to get a private property and when you look out of your window, HDB flats are just right infront of you (is so near and “nice” view) and i do agree that is inconvenient as it is not within walking distance to the MRT. (Accordingly to the agent, is about 2.5 bus stops away from the MRT)

It does not mean that if a person stays in a condo, he has to drive. He can have the money to buy a car, but he may not want too. My husband wanted to buy a car for me to drive to work, but I’m not the type that love to drive, I rather take public transport, so i do not think is necessary to be so houlian by giving that kind of comment , saying if a person doesn’t own a car, then dun stay in condo. (Sound like one of the MP’s daughter ah) Ultimately, if a person is rich enough, there is no need for him to get the loan from the bank in the first place. To show off how rich he is, just buy the whole house and pay in full at go! Agree?
Just my personal thought.

i visited too. for the price, i rather get a ready built condo at east cost.

BE Humble
30-06-08, 17:26
Aiyo, of course i wont shoot you..this is a public forum, everyone has their rights to share their thoughts..

That’s why i said, if these ppl are so well off and they want to SHOW OFF to ppl how rich they are, by telling ppl how many cars they own and how many condos they have, paid in full at one go! Show the world you have the money. This is something that most of the Singaporeans(including me) are unable to do and something that the person can be very very proud off since his motive is to show off.

I do not think a person can always make money in the stock markets, but I’m pretty sure one will owe the bank money and interest forever once he starts buying a property, with loan from the bank. Everyone knows the market is sometimes so unpredictable. So he is so damn rich, he will have spare cash to invest too. I have never heard of a millionaire getting a housing loan from the bank.

Just be humble abit..you never know if one day you will fall :)

common sense
30-06-08, 18:07
I have never heard of a millionaire getting a housing loan from the bank.

That is where you are dead wrong. If you only have $5 million for example, and you buy a $2 million house. Would you pay in full? If you will, then maybe you did not come from a business background.

There are many multi millionaires out there who have plenty of money invested, and some more in the bank, but they still take loans. I have friends from old rich families who were given a few million dollars in inheritances but their parents forced them to take bank loans for properties instead of paying cash in full. Reason: their money is not deemed to be working hard enough. I agree with the parents.

Cars paid in full yes, because it is a relative small amount. Properties, no.

Go ask those who own GCBs, I am sure the super rich who are worth a few hundred million do pay in full but most mere multi millionaires do not.

Everything is relative, so even if you can afford to pay in full but doing that reduces your working capital by half, then it may be wiser to take a loan. But if paying in full takes up but 5% of your working capital, then by all means do so.

In business, every cent has the potential to grow by 10 times or more. Do not waste it by paying up to the bank. If need be, buy a smaller house.

kal
30-06-08, 18:37
most millionaires get loans...billionaires dont..:)

Be more humble
30-06-08, 21:29
yes agreed ..of course i know no one pay in full at ONE GO. That is something nonbusiness background ppl know too. Just for infor, I have frizs with busines backgroud, knows about business, however they are not doing as well as i think..So business background or not, it does not matter at all, they can be a failure too.

Im just trying to ask those ppl who think they are super rich to wake up and be more humble, stop boasting around on how rich they are. The fact is, they are just borrowing money from bank to finance their house, they do not own the house at all! they only own the house after they have paid up their loan. This is a fact.

i would rather own a house of my own, fully paid up, then to have a few property, with lots of outstanding loan and i have to work till im age 70 to settle the loan. I think lots of Singaporean are doing that, having 30 years of loan ,or even max out to 35years just to get a expensive condo. There is so sad just bcoz they want to show ppl that they belong to the 'rich' group. if a person still tells me is good to loan from bank when you can pay off the housing loan as soon as you can, then i really think this person is dumb. What makes the person so confident that his business or investment will grow, in short term? long term maybe yes, but how long? the person may not get to see that day. Is a risk.

Talk about business..again, anything is possible, if your business fail, you will have to sell off all your property to pay your debtors, and sleep along the street or friz house? I guess is always smart to have house of your own then to have a few that "belongs to the bank".

dun tell me you are one of those who own a few properties? all loan from bank like 30 years? very sad if that is the case! I used to know this guy, son of one of the millionaire in Singapore, you will be surprised on how humble he is! Im very very impressed by him, compare to those not so rich but act rich ppl..and is truth, not lying.

WC
30-06-08, 21:31
what is the reasonable househole income in order to stay at this kind of condo that costs 900k-1Mil???

hello?
30-06-08, 21:32
I used to know this guy, son of one of the millionaire in Singapore, you will be surprised on how humble he is! Im very very impressed by him, compare to those not so rich but act rich ppl..and is truth, not lying.

did you ask him whether he paid up his property in full or take loan?

John
30-06-08, 21:48
Hi Kcal,
How do you know that most millionaires get mortgage loans? Bishan has the most number of HDB executive flats and has the highest household incomes in a HDB estate. Some of these residents are millionaires approaching 55 years old. They are able to buy a $1million condominium unit without having to get a mortgage loan. Do you agree?

kal
30-06-08, 22:02
Hi Kcal,
How do you know that most millionaires get mortgage loans? Bishan has the most number of HDB executive flats and has the highest household incomes in a HDB estate. Some of these residents are millionaires approaching 55 years old. They are able to buy a $1million condominium unit without having to get a mortgage loan. Do you agree?

Due to the nature of my job, of cos I know. I said MOST, i didnt say ALL..

frontosa
01-07-08, 00:01
Didnt know the demand is so good, but i hope that the roads there will be quite connected, huge jam expected.

Humble
01-07-08, 09:04
opps..sorry. this friz of mine is not millionaire's son, but BILLIONAIRE’s son. So what do you think? he never go around telling ppl, have how many cars and how many condos he has. He is really a nice chap.

Traffic is definitely a problem there, I was there on a Sat evening and was congested.

Unregistered3
01-07-08, 09:11
Anyone has any floor plans to post on Clover? Can someone describe the surroundings of this project? Besides 1 view of Bishan park...the rest face HDBs? How tall are these HDBs?

Unregisteredhere
01-07-08, 11:45
Anyone has any floor plans to post on Clover? Can someone describe the surroundings of this project? Besides 1 view of Bishan park...the rest face HDBs? How tall are these HDBs?

39 floors, 2 towers, 1st tower launched... one side facing the park, the other facing the HDB...

not sure why so many rich ppl out there. Im interested to buy, but think 900k is too expensive in Bishan.

registered
01-07-08, 12:13
i visited too. for the price, i rather get a ready built condo at east cost.

Agree on the of not driving. My family own cars but i choose to take public transport. For varities of reasons.

having cars does not equate convenience in Singapore, not when it is a big headache trying to find car parks....

Don't fault ppl for not having cars or not driving.

2 cents
01-07-08, 13:43
39 floors, 2 towers, 1st tower launched... one side facing the park, the other facing the HDB...

not sure why so many rich ppl out there. Im interested to buy, but think 900k is too expensive in Bishan.

This development has got generous space.. if you divide out the PSF is reasonable.

Compared to the 5 rooms flat or similar size in Bishan. I think this fine.

Anyone got any comments?

Unregistered3
01-07-08, 14:01
39 floors, 2 towers, 1st tower launched... one side facing the park, the other facing the HDB...

not sure why so many rich ppl out there. Im interested to buy, but think 900k is too expensive in Bishan.


Any balcony? planter boxes? Any good facing for the other tower which hasn't been launched?

2 cents
01-07-08, 15:17
Any balcony? planter boxes? Any good facing for the other tower which hasn't been launched?

Yes good size service balcony (may be too big for some layout). Good facing i.e. Bishan Park mostly sold.
Other tower also launched..

Unregistered3
01-07-08, 15:27
Yes good size service balcony (may be too big for some layout). Good facing i.e. Bishan Park mostly sold.
Other tower also launched..

What's the facing for the other tower?

nobody
01-07-08, 15:31
There are 2 blocks, they only launch one, which is the one besides bishan park. Each level has 6 units. Those units facing the park all fully sold, EXCEPT stack 14, with 1-2 units available. The other side of this blk is facing the pool

As for the other block, do not know when they will launch. For this not launch block, one side will be facing HDB and the other side facing the pool. For the units facing HDB, is going to be real close to them.

the floor area is big and the bathroom is impressive. Nice balcony too. But why pay such price for a inconvenient location, rather go for a property at east coast.

Anyone can comment about renting prospects in Bishan?

Unregistered3
01-07-08, 15:51
There are 2 blocks, they only launch one, which is the one besides bishan park. Each level has 6 units. Those units facing the park all fully sold, EXCEPT stack 14, with 1-2 units available. The other side of this blk is facing the pool

As for the other block, do not know when they will launch. For this not launch block, one side will be facing HDB and the other side facing the pool. For the units facing HDB, is going to be real close to them.

the floor area is big and the bathroom is impressive. Nice balcony too. But why pay such price for a inconvenient location, rather go for a property at east coast.

Anyone can comment about renting prospects in Bishan?

Thanks...may I also ask whether the units are generally facing North / South?

ABC
01-07-08, 21:23
Thanks...may I also ask whether the units are generally facing North / South?
You are good in bring up the merit points through your questions.
Agree that the layout is spacious, serene and breezy, especially for those facing the park. Also if you check the PUB website, there are plans to convert the canal into water way. That will be good.

HDBHub
01-07-08, 21:42
Nothing against HDB but this project is surrounded by HDB and the park-facing units are the choice but because of the other many units that do not have the park view, the resale value may be average down? Thinking of buying as I love Bishan. I heard that the plot of land next to Bishan MRT is for residential, is that correct?

XYZ
01-07-08, 22:29
Nothing against HDB but this project is surrounded by HDB and the park-facing units are the choice but because of the other many units that do not have the park view, the resale value may be average down? Thinking of buying as I love Bishan. I heard that the plot of land next to Bishan MRT is for residential, is that correct?
My thought that these project sells well is because
1. Park view,
2. Tall towers that rise up way above the the surrounding HDB with unique design.
3. Spacious design of landscaping
4. Convienience of eateries, etc.
5. Of course, Bishan is centralised btw both AMK & Toa Payoh.

ZYX
02-07-08, 09:10
When markets collapse and banks crumble prices would fall.

Unregistered2
02-07-08, 10:53
When markets collapse and banks crumble prices would fall.

isn't that common sense?

Up & Down
02-07-08, 12:51
Even if this happen the price fall will not be significant. Maybe 3% - 5% but on the upside.. it will be more than 5%

frontosa
02-07-08, 14:30
I doubt the prices can really crash, more like a correction. The problem is that we do not know how many people buy to stay, if not, it is hard to see if the crash has any impact on them.

nodeferred
02-07-08, 15:09
no deferred payment and with expensive stamp duty, i doubt there is any short term flipper around.

123
02-07-08, 15:40
Sonia Kolesnikov-Jessop

After two years of exuberance, activity in the private housing market in Singapore has slowed to a near standstill. The number of new property sales, measured on a monthly basis, contracted 64.9 percent in April, as buyers became more cautious and took a wait-and-see attitude. As a result, several well-publicized launches have been put on the backburner for an indefinite period and some developers have started to drop asking prices, for example at The Lakeshore in Jurong West and Blu Coral in Telok Kurau.

An air of doom and gloom has settled over Singapore’s residential property market and vultures are circling, proclaiming the Singapore residential property market is about to collapse by 30-40 percent, but are they interpreting the facts correctly? Not all experts agree, with some calling the current market downturn more of a short-term blip rather than the beginning of a market collapse.

“The slowing of the property market is a natural development after prices skyrocketed on the back of very strong demand,” says Sherman Chan, an economist at Moody’s Economy.com, “but a 30-40 percent collapse is highly unlikely. The construction sector is an important growth driver for Singapore and I don’t think the government would let it collapse as there would be wider ramifications. Let’s not forget that the government imposed some measures last year to cool down the market and these measures could very well be lifted if need be.”

In recent weeks, several bearish reports have forecast a dramatic plunge in home values over the next two years. Barclays Capital believes private home prices could slide 28-30 percent by 2010, while Credit Suisse predicted a price decline of 30 percent in 2008-2009.

The bears are pointing to several factors suggesting the writing is on the wall. The stock of unsold condominiums (as measured by projects that have been issued a sales license) rose to 10,861 units in the first quarter of this year, 34 percent higher than the quarterly average in 2007 and back up to levels not seen since June 2005. Net CPF withdrawals for private property have turned negative for the first time, reflecting the decline in transaction as well as profit taking by local buyers who own more than one property. “This has never happened before, not even during the 1998 Asian Financial Crisis,” notes Barclay Capital economist Waiho Leong. And vacancy rates in non-landed property developments have also risen in recent months toward 6.3 percent, compared with 5.6 percent in the last quarter of 2007. Credit Suisse, in its recent report, argues that this will rise further to 9.8-19 percent, on a base and worst case scenario. This could in turn trigger a sharp fall in rentals further weakening the market. “The last time vacancies shot up from 5.8 percent to 9.7 percent, rentals fell by 41percent,” Credit Suisse Tricia Song wrote referring to the year 1996.

Casting long shadows on the markets are the estimated 66,000 home units expected to be completed between 2009-2012, as well as the possible unwinding of speculative purchases. Unless many of the developments that are currently in the pipeline are postponed, a cumulative surplus could provide a glut that will be felt most acutely in 2010, Leong warned.

The bears also argue that given the current thin sales environment, the small price growth recorded by the URA indices do not reflect sentiment and can easily be biased by a few high-end sales. A better gauge of sentiment is land prices and developers’ waning appetite for recent URA auctions, they say. In May, a 99-year residential leasehold site in Choa Chu Kang Drive attracted a top bid of only $203 per square foot per plot ratio, well below the $230-$270 psf ppr range the market had expected.

But not everybody agrees. “I think bad interpretation of data is causing the string of bad news,” says Ku Swee Yong, Director, Savills Residential Private Limited.

Ku points out that the supply figures touted by some analysts bundle together planned, under construction and complete unit numbers. “The reality is that any apartments expected to complete in 2010 but still not under construction today, is unlikely to be completed on time given that the average construction period for a 20 storey apartment block takes 24 months from foundation works till handover” Ku remarks.

“The construction sector is tight on resources today and unless there are policy changes given to encourage faster pace of construction, the ‘oversupply scenario’ is not a realistic one,” he adds.

Tay Huey Ying, Director for Research and Consultancy at Colliers, agrees, pointing out that although the supply pipeline appears a “bit on the high side,” once delays and abandonment of project developments are taken into account, “the new supply will be much lower than expected.”

Leonard Tay, director, CBRE Research also points out that many of the units will be taken out by either en-bloc sellers who need to relocate, or new expatriates moving here. “There is a lack of activity in the market, but property prices have been holding. I believe there are still a lot of buyers in the market with ready cash; they’re just waiting for what’s next,” Tay says, forecasting that the luxury end of the market may “dip just a bit” this year, but prices should hold for now.

As for the units bought under the deferred payment scheme that some say will be “dumped” in the market as the construction is completed, Ku says their number is probably limited to around 2,900, 10 percent of the 29,000 units that URA has given approval for sale under Deferment Payment Scheme. “Not that much to worry about,” he says.

Many property consultants are pointing to the long-term prospects for the Singapore property market supported by the positive vibe stemming from the Integrated Resorts and events such as the F1 race and the 2010 Youth Olympics.

“I think the Singapore property market is still pretty strong. We could see a mild correction, but I don’t see that as a concern because the government is still trying to attract expatriates to work here and they will contribute to demand for properties,” Chan says.

Tay also points out that given the anticipated continuing influx of foreigners, the 15-year historical average number of 7,000 new units needed a year is likely to increase to 8,000 to even 10,000 units.

“So I don’t foresee an oversupply situation as yet. I don’t think the sky is about to fall in,” she says.

Property
02-07-08, 17:14
“So I don’t foresee an oversupply situation as yet. I don’t think the sky is about to fall in,” she says.

Agree... the sentiment may well seems glommy in the short term. This is the reason why so many buyers are waiting on the sideline to take advantage. Any slight indication of lower price may well see them jump in again.

Mah BT
02-07-08, 17:20
yah i foresee the big drop coming too ... maybe in the future, hdb will be more expensive than condo...:scared-1:

Little doubt about it, especially compared with the private leasehold segment. At least, the pricing gap will narrow down to the extent that only facility makes the different.

Bankers
02-07-08, 17:47
Little doubt about it, especially compared with the private leasehold segment. At least, the pricing gap will narrow down to the extent that only facility makes the different.

Well..... continue to dream.

abyss
02-07-08, 22:06
no deferred payment and with expensive stamp duty, i doubt there is any short term flipper around.

anyone know for this project, did the agent offer any stamp duty waiver?

Clever
02-07-08, 22:49
That is true. The only diff between HDB and 99LH condo is the facilities and nothing else.


Little doubt about it, especially compared with the private leasehold segment. At least, the pricing gap will narrow down to the extent that only facility makes the different.

Unreg¡stered
03-07-08, 00:38
Sonia Kolesnikov-Jessop

.............

“I think bad interpretation of data is causing the string of bad news,” says Ku Swee Yong, Director, Savills Residential Private Limited.

Ku points out that the supply figures touted by some analysts bundle together planned, under construction and complete unit numbers. “The reality is that any apartments expected to complete in 2010 but still not under construction today, is unlikely to be completed on time given that the average construction period for a 20 storey apartment block takes 24 months from foundation works till handover” Ku remarks.

“The construction sector is tight on resources today and unless there are policy changes given to encourage faster pace of construction, the ‘oversupply scenario’ is not a realistic one,” he adds.

Tay Huey Ying, Director for Research and Consultancy at Colliers, agrees, pointing out that although the supply pipeline appears a “bit on the high side,” once delays and abandonment of project developments are taken into account, “the new supply will be much lower than expected.”

Leonard Tay, director, CBRE Research also points out that many of the units will be taken out by either en-bloc sellers who need to relocate, or new expatriates moving here. “There is a lack of activity in the market, but property prices have been holding. I believe there are still a lot of buyers in the market with ready cash; they’re just waiting for what’s next,” Tay says, forecasting that the luxury end of the market may “dip just a bit” this year, but prices should hold for now.

As for the units bought under the deferred payment scheme that some say will be “dumped” in the market as the construction is completed, Ku says their number is probably limited to around 2,900, 10% of the 29,000 units that URA has given approval for sale under Deferment Payment Scheme. “Not that much to worry about,” he says.

Many property consultants are pointing to the long-term prospects for the Singapore property market supported by the positive vibe stemming from the Integrated Resorts and events such as the F1 race and the 2010 Youth Olympics.

“I think the Singapore property market is still pretty strong. We could see a mild correction, but I don’t see that as a concern because the government is still trying to attract expatriates to work here and they will contribute to demand for properties,” Chan says.

Tay also points out that given the anticipated continuing influx of foreigners, the 15-year historical average number of 7,000 new units needed a year is likely to increase to 8,000 to even 10,000 units.

“So I don’t foresee an oversupply situation as yet. I don’t think the sky is about to fall in,” she says.
Is there a need to post this piece of news everywhere?

geylang
03-07-08, 01:46
Agree on the of not driving. My family own cars but i choose to take public transport. For varities of reasons.

having cars does not equate convenience in Singapore, not when it is a big headache trying to find car parks....

Don't fault ppl for not having cars or not driving.
Yah, because you like to go geylang to kio kue liao. Drive cannot find parking.

BishanILOVEU
03-07-08, 06:12
Nothing against HDB but this project is surrounded by HDB and the park-facing units are the choice but because of the other many units that do not have the park view, the resale value may be average down? Thinking of buying as I love Bishan. I heard that the plot of land next to Bishan MRT is for residential, is that correct?
Yes, zoned for residential and on reserve list. Definitely a much better site.

Falling market
03-07-08, 06:29
Is there a need to post this piece of news everywhere?
He is so insecure

XYZ
03-07-08, 06:35
He is so insecure

MARKET FALLING FOR SURE. AWAIT GOOD DEALS AT 40% DISCOUNT. HOLD ON FOLKS. ITS COMINGGGGGGGGGGG.

ZYX
03-07-08, 07:06
MARKET FALLING FOR SURE. AWAIT GOOD DEALS AT 40% DISCOUNT. HOLD ON FOLKS. ITS COMINGGGGGGGGGGG.
When? When?

XYZ
03-07-08, 08:44
When? When?
IT IS ON THE WAY. HOLD ON. IT WILL BLOW YOU AWAY WITH THE DISCOUNTS.

home-run
03-07-08, 15:34
CLOVER BY THE PARK LATEST HOTTEST UPDATES!!!

TOWER 2 IS RELEASED FINALLY!!!

FANTASTIC CITY SKYLINE VIEW AND POOL VIEW FACING!!!

CHOICE UNITS AVAILABLE TO CHOOSE!!!

Address : 2/6 Bishan Street 25
Tenure : 99 yr leasehold
Land Area : 235,000sqft
Units : 616

*3 BR / 3+study : 1200-1600sqft
*4 BR / 4+study : 1700-1800sqft
*Penthouse (Suite - Single Storey) : 3000sqft
*Penthouse (Duplex) : 2500-3500sqft


2 Towers of 39 storey makes this new condominium the most iconic launch in Bishan to date. Located within 1 km to Catholic High School and with Raffles Institution & Ai Tong School in the vicinity, Bishan is an attractive location as an education hub. With the future Circleline(Marymount Station) coming up together with the existing Bishan MRT station, accessibility has never been so convenient. Junction 8, Thompson Plaza & Sin Ming Plaza makes shopping a breeze.

PRICED TO SELL!!!
Bring cheque to book choice units before all units are sold out!!!
Special Financing Scheme makes this project more attractive to buy.
For more details,
pls call me @ 81835132 OR
visit my website at http://wilsonlimot.multiply.com (http://wilsonlimot.multiply.com/)
Cheers:cheers6:

Anti Geylang
03-07-08, 16:25
Yah, because you like to go geylang to kio kue liao. Drive cannot find parking.

dude.. with your filthy mind… you are better off somewhere than shaming yourself here…

Unreg¡stered
03-07-08, 23:12
MARKET FALLING FOR SURE. AWAIT GOOD DEALS AT 40% DISCOUNT. HOLD ON FOLKS. ITS COMINGGGGGGGGGGG.
You say falling. They say rising.

All talking cock. Talk is free.

URA PPI
03-07-08, 23:14
You say falling. They say rising.

All talking cock. Talk is free.
Of course talk is free. URA price index is also free.
Q2 shows a small up.

RI
04-07-08, 07:07
Yes, zoned for residential and on reserve list. Definitely a much better site.
Interesting.... why no developer bid?

XYZ
05-07-08, 22:02
CLOVER BY THE PARK LATEST HOTTEST UPDATES!!!

TOWER 2 IS RELEASED FINALLY!!!

FANTASTIC CITY SKYLINE VIEW AND POOL VIEW FACING!!!

CHOICE UNITS AVAILABLE TO CHOOSE!!!

Address : 2/6 Bishan Street 25
Tenure : 99 yr leasehold
Land Area : 235,000sqft
Units : 616

*3 BR / 3+study : 1200-1600sqft
*4 BR / 4+study : 1700-1800sqft
*Penthouse (Suite - Single Storey) : 3000sqft
*Penthouse (Duplex) : 2500-3500sqft


2 Towers of 39 storey makes this new condominium the most iconic launch in Bishan to date. Located within 1 km to Catholic High School and with Raffles Institution & Ai Tong School in the vicinity, Bishan is an attractive location as an education hub. With the future Circleline(Marymount Station) coming up together with the existing Bishan MRT station, accessibility has never been so convenient. Junction 8, Thompson Plaza & Sin Ming Plaza makes shopping a breeze.

PRICED TO SELL!!!
Bring cheque to book choice units before all units are sold out!!!
Special Financing Scheme makes this project more attractive to buy.
For more details,
pls call me @ 81835132 OR
visit my website at http://wilsonlimot.multiply.com (http://wilsonlimot.multiply.com/)
Cheers:cheers6:

Anybody knows what is the take up rate like after they launch all the 616 units over the weekend?

John
05-07-08, 22:58
An agent told me that about 300 units have been sold.

Clover
05-07-08, 23:20
An agent told me that about 300 units have been sold.
I thought more than 80% already?

Elden
06-07-08, 09:16
Have just plonked down the deposit for one of the units at Clover by the Park. Heart pain, but we really did like the place and it was vary fairly priced. We got ours at $730 psf which I feel is very reasonable.

Not all the units are going for the same price. There is a range.

Me and my wife went for the initial launch of the first block and the property agent told us $790 psf. That to us was a bit pricy and we left disappointed.

But we really loved Bishan and it was one of the few condo developments there. If not for the price, everything else would have been perfect. So, we went there first thing in the morning on the opening launch day of the second tower.

Got another agent this time, and this time, we asked specifically for the price of one of the lower floor units. (Actually 14 to 20th floor is not lower floor, but 4 bedroom units start from 14th floor).

We were already quite surprised and happy to find out that it was just around $730 for the unit we wanted. Tried to bargain it down a bit more, but I think they had already priced down the condo to sell already so they refused to budge. And while we were talking, the unit we wanted was taken up! :scared-2:

So, took the unit one floor up and quickly signed the cheque. It was already considerably cheaper than our previously imagined $800 psf. At some point, I guess we had to decide whether to just bite the bullet and go in and buy.

For me and my wife, given we specifically wanted somewhere at Bishan, attractively priced and nice condo units there are hard to come by. (We felt that BIshan 8 rooms was too small).

The place had everything we wanted. Near to amenities, near a nice park, big units, was in Bishan. We just couldn't be sure if there would be future launches in the area, and even if there was, whether they would be as attractively priced as Clover by the Park.

So, we plonked down our hard earned cash. I hope the property market won't crash too much after this. :tongue3: In any case, even if it does, I think for us, at $730 psf, it was already cheap enough. The key thing here that clinched it was the price I think. They had got the price exactly right. Honestly, I wouldn't have gone for it no matter how nice it was if it was priced at $800 psf or more.

The maintenance is quite cheap too. Lower than $200 per month, because there are over 600 families all helping to share out the maintenance. That's another big plus since such things add up over the long term.

I would have liked it nearer to Bishan MRT, but sometimes, one just can't be that picky. THere's 4 busses excluding the shuttle bus going to the MRT, so going to work should be fine. We might just take a long walk home from Bishan MRT after work just to get in more exercise. Goodness knows we probably need it! lol :)

Just sharing. :)

Unregistered12
06-07-08, 10:21
Have just plonked down the deposit for one of the units at Clover by the Park. Heart pain, but we really did like the place and it was vary fairly priced. We got ours at $730 psf which I feel is very reasonable.

Not all the units are going for the same price. There is a range.

Me and my wife went for the initial launch of the first block and the property agent told us $790 psf. That to us was a bit pricy and we left disappointed.

But we really loved Bishan and it was one of the few condo developments there. If not for the price, everything else would have been perfect. So, we went there first thing in the morning on the opening launch day of the second tower.

Got another agent this time, and this time, we asked specifically for the price of one of the lower floor units. (Actually 14 to 20th floor is not lower floor, but 4 bedroom units start from 14th floor).

We were already quite surprised and happy to find out that it was just around $730 for the unit we wanted. Tried to bargain it down a bit more, but I think they had already priced down the condo to sell already so they refused to budge. And while we were talking, the unit we wanted was taken up! :scared-2:

So, took the unit one floor up and quickly signed the cheque. It was already considerably cheaper than our previously imagined $800 psf. At some point, I guess we had to decide whether to just bite the bullet and go in and buy.

For me and my wife, given we specifically wanted somewhere at Bishan, attractively priced and nice condo units there are hard to come by. (We felt that BIshan 8 rooms was too small).

The place had everything we wanted. Near to amenities, near a nice park, big units, was in Bishan. We just couldn't be sure if there would be future launches in the area, and even if there was, whether they would be as attractively priced as Clover by the Park.

So, we plonked down our hard earned cash. I hope the property market won't crash too much after this. :tongue3: In any case, even if it does, I think for us, at $730 psf, it was already cheap enough. The key thing here that clinched it was the price I think. They had got the price exactly right. Honestly, I wouldn't have gone for it no matter how nice it was if it was priced at $800 psf or more.

The maintenance is quite cheap too. Lower than $200 per month, because there are over 600 families all helping to share out the maintenance. That's another big plus since such things add up over the long term.

I would have liked it nearer to Bishan MRT, but sometimes, one just can't be that picky. THere's 4 busses excluding the shuttle bus going to the MRT, so going to work should be fine. We might just take a long walk home from Bishan MRT after work just to get in more exercise. Goodness knows we probably need it! lol :)

Just sharing. :)

As long as you like it... There may be short term correction but in the longer term, you would not lose $, my humble view. Afterall, only paper loss, paper gain if for own stay. Congratulations!

Clover
06-07-08, 19:01
As long as you like it... There may be short term correction but in the longer term, you would not lose $, my humble view. Afterall, only paper loss, paper gain if for own stay. Congratulations!

This link will be good news to those who have bought units at this condo, in PUB's ABC plan the canal beside this condo will be transformed into an exciting place to stay near to.....great for the family.
Please refer to this link http://www.adb.org/Water/Operations/2007/Awdo-Experts-Meeting/pdf/PUB-presentation-media-workshop23August.pdf

Clover Bee
07-07-08, 22:15
Clover by the park.........wow...how often you come across the word "BY THE PARK". Honestly, I dont think there is many park around Singapore and with the number of trees that are been killed daily around the globe, living next to a forest of trees really feel on top of the world. Speaking about on top of the world, if any of you guys are really keen to enjoy the world under your feet, you ought to look seriously at getting a unit at the Clover. From the satellite aerial view of the northern region, there is really not many apartment that can boasts of 40 storeys high. Moreover, given the extended ceiling height of this condo standing at a high and mighty 3.15M, it interprets into about 48 storeys of HDB apartment and believe me, the birds chirping can be quite deafening and literally you can touch the clouds. The stars in the night will look brighter and bigger given you are 128M above land....WOW.....WOOOOO

So, you guys out there who keep talking about property cooling off before taking action, maintain a cool head now and buy a unit before its too late.

mr funny
08-07-08, 10:38
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/suite/story/0,4574,286831,00.html?

Published July 8, 2008

Varying pace of sales at recently released projects

Most private homes register slower sales at the weekend

By KALPANA RASHIWALA


DEVELOPERS selling private homes had a mixed bag of results at the weekend.

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2008-07-08/BT_IMAGES_KRTAKEUP8-E27.jpg
Strong sales: The 99-year-leasehold Livia in Pasir Ris, where previews started last Friday, has chalked up relatively strong sales of 160 units

The 99-year-leasehold Livia in Pasir Ris, where previews started last Friday, has chalked up relatively strong sales of 160 units at an average of $650 per square foot (psf).

But sales were slower for most other recently released projects.

At Kovan Residences, another 20-plus units were sold at the weekend, taking total sales to more than 80 since the 99-year-leasehold project next to Kovan MRT Station was previewed at a private party on June 28.

The average price is between $870 and $900 psf.

Riding on the buying interest in Kovan Residences, MCL Land accelerated the preview of its 50-unit D-Pavilion, a freehold condo on Upper Serangoon Road slightly further away from Kovan MRT. It sold 10 units on Saturday and Sunday at an average price of $900 psf.

In Bishan, Sim Lian found buyers for another 59 units last week at its Clover By The Park condo, taking total sales to 254 since it previewed the 616-unit project on June 25.

The average price for the 99-year-leasehold project is $750 psf. Sim Lian also sold four units at The Amery in Telok Kurau last week, taking the total to 31 of the 78 units in the freehold development. The average price is $860 psf.

NTUC Choice Homes and Ho Bee Investment sold another 10 units at the weekend at Dakota Residences. The sales tally is 161 for the 348-unit, 99-year condo that is currently selling at an average price of $980 psf.

Commenting on the varying pace of sales, a developer said it is not unusual for transactions to taper off after the first weekend or two weekends of a launch, after initial demand has expressed itself and choice units are taken up.

Another developer said: 'I think potential buyers are nibbling. If they see a project they like and it's priced attractively, they'll go in. But buyers are very price-sensitive.'

Giving his take, a property consultant suggested: 'I've got the feeling these developers may be slowly pushing up prices; so demand has been tapering off.

'Once a developer has sold at least 30-40 per cent of units in a project, it may be slightly more comfortable with cash flow.

'It may then be prepared to sell the rest of the project at a slower pace if it can achieve higher prices.'

A more worrying reason could simply be that demand has dropped.

'People ask themselves: 'With all the global economic uncertainty, do I really need to buy a new home now?' said a market watcher.

City Developments Ltd said yesterday that most of the buyers at Livia are Singaporeans, while foreign buyers come from China, Indonesia, India, Malaysia and the Philippines.

Most people bought for owner occupation. The 160 units sold so far achieved prices of between $570 psf and $740 psf.

Prices start from $597,000 for a two-bedroom unit, $793,000 for a three-bedder and $991,000 for a four-bedder.

Hayden Properties starts to preview The Hamilton Scotts this week.

Prices are expected to start below $3,000 psf, though the average price is expected to be around $3,500 psf.

The freehold project comprises 54 apartments and two penthouses.

Un
08-07-08, 19:53
Just a comment on the number of balconies and planter boxes at Clover, or at Sim Lian projects (such as Amery)...I find that this developer loves to build a lot of these into the units.

No developmen charge
08-07-08, 20:11
Just a comment on the number of balconies and planter boxes at Clover, or at Sim Lian projects (such as Amery)...I find that this developer loves to build a lot of these into the units.

Apparently, the developer need not pay development charges for these unusable space but yet they charge the buyer for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UnregisteredCCB
08-07-08, 20:13
I agree. This is the way many developers make money. KNS

Unregistered123
08-07-08, 21:25
Apparently, the developer need not pay development charges for these unusable space but yet they charge the buyer for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Care to explain your point?

Cheats
08-07-08, 21:59
That is correct. That is why most developers maximise the balcony and planter space - not use in plot ratio calculation as well. They can sell you the space at no cost.


Apparently, the developer need not pay development charges for these unusable space but yet they charge the buyer for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clover Honey
09-07-08, 12:37
That is correct. That is why most developers maximise the balcony and planter space - not use in plot ratio calculation as well. They can sell you the space at no cost.
Wow with the new housing rates, will entice more buyers to consider this choice condo.

BV
09-07-08, 14:14
That is correct. That is why most developers maximise the balcony and planter space - not use in plot ratio calculation as well. They can sell you the space at no cost.

Well, you will be glad to know that there will be no more such nonsense in the future then. URA has removed the GFA exemptions for bay windows and planters in residential units (wef from Oct 08).

http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc08-17.pdf

Developers' margins will be squeezed I guess... Also, I am pretty sure that there will be much less planters and bay windows included in future condo designs since they are no longer 'free' GFA.

Un
09-07-08, 14:29
Well, you will be glad to know that there will be no more such nonsense in the future then. URA has removed the GFA exemptions for bay windows and planters in residential units (wef from Oct 08).

http://www.ura.gov.sg/circulars/text/dc08-17.pdf

Developers' margins will be squeezed I guess... Also, I am pretty sure that there will be much less planters and bay windows included in future condo designs since they are no longer 'free' GFA.


Am still puzzled why developers are still building in the bomb shelter...

Clover Honey
09-07-08, 16:00
Am still puzzled why developers are still building in the bomb shelter...
Clover by the park has no residential "Bomb Shelter"

cl0ver
12-07-08, 17:27
we were eyeing this one since the pilling started last year....
used to live in bishan park condo further down so we know the area well....
golf range... eateries... schools....

managed to close the deal on second day at $690 psft. And for under 1600 sqft condo, im amazed that maintainance only $165....
nice park view, north facing.... cant wait for the water project to complete with some eateries at the park. In fact there is already a spa there and some fancy restaurants.....

i wonder why ppl complain about wasting space.... i love the concept of walking into your home passing a balcony... more light.. and breeze.....
the backyard was huge as well and no bomb shelter but a decent maids room.
and sim lian was generous about the ceiling and the main living room balcony...

Clover Leaves
12-07-08, 18:33
we were eyeing this one since the pilling started last year....
used to live in bishan park condo further down so we know the area well....
golf range... eateries... schools....

managed to close the deal on second day at $690 psft. And for under 1600 sqft condo, im amazed that maintainance only $165....
nice park view, north facing.... cant wait for the water project to complete with some eateries at the park. In fact there is already a spa there and some fancy restaurants.....

i wonder why ppl complain about wasting space.... i love the concept of walking into your home passing a balcony... more light.. and breeze.....
the backyard was huge as well and no bomb shelter but a decent maids room.
and sim lian was generous about the ceiling and the main living room balcony...
Can share your excitment.....
Got one in the lower floor that overlooks the park and the upcoming makeover of the river water project. It about ending the day unwinding with the family at the Balcony in the quiet serene environment and waking up to the cooling morning breeze

Happy38
12-07-08, 20:07
Can share your excitment.....
Got one in the lower floor that overlooks the park and the upcoming makeover of the river water project. It about ending the day unwinding with the family at the Balcony in the quiet serene environment and waking up to the cooling morning breeze

Also love it... but chose Dakota today.. just to be nearer to town.

Congrats!!!!! a Good buy.

Clover Bee
13-07-08, 00:31
we were eyeing this one since the pilling started last year....
used to live in bishan park condo further down so we know the area well....
golf range... eateries... schools....

managed to close the deal on second day at $690 psft. And for under 1600 sqft condo, im amazed that maintainance only $165....
nice park view, north facing.... cant wait for the water project to complete with some eateries at the park. In fact there is already a spa there and some fancy restaurants.....

i wonder why ppl complain about wasting space.... i love the concept of walking into your home passing a balcony... more light.. and breeze.....
the backyard was huge as well and no bomb shelter but a decent maids room.
and sim lian was generous about the ceiling and the main living room balcony...
Wow...$690 psf is very good buy. Was it a high floor and which block 2 0r 6?

cl0ver
13-07-08, 09:31
park view means block 2 lah.....
what we did was went to the HDB next door and took the lift up to see how the park view would be on each floor.....

The HDB has 10 floors and i think Clover is probably 1 floor higher ground... so factoring the high celing... we just guessed that between 5-9th floor should give a nice view....

5th should just clear the trees and not see much of the HDB at AMK Ave 1... while 9th should be higher.. less noise... oversee a bit more of the park but get some HDB views at AMK Ave 1....

so we bought in between..... :P

Unregistered10000
13-07-08, 09:54
park view means block 2 lah.....
what we did was went to the HDB next door and took the lift up to see how the park view would be on each floor.....

The HDB has 10 floors and i think Clover is probably 1 floor higher ground... so factoring the high celing... we just guessed that between 5-9th floor should give a nice view....

5th should just clear the trees and not see much of the HDB at AMK Ave 1... while 9th should be higher.. less noise... oversee a bit more of the park but get some HDB views at AMK Ave 1....

so we bought in between..... :P

I read the ST today. Clover has a big area for planter box.... now I understand how the developer is able to price so cheap.

cl0ver
13-07-08, 12:32
the planter is like a box hole in the ground... its not above ground... so i think if u dont like some plants.... u can cover it with wood panels...

cl0ver
13-07-08, 14:19
sorry, park view is actually block 6 not 2

BishanPark Watcher
13-07-08, 14:30
sorry, park view is actually block 6 not 2
That's right, unblocked view will be from stack 13, 14, 15 and 16.
Cheers

Illegal
13-07-08, 15:25
This is illegal. Need to get approval and pay govt development charge for that. Bear in mind, your developer did not pay the garmen for the space.


the planter is like a box hole in the ground... its not above ground... so i think if u dont like some plants.... u can cover it with wood panels...

Doomsday
13-07-08, 17:05
Fannie and Freddie: How the Fallout Could Affect You

By Ron Lieber The New York Times | 12 Jul 2008 | 04:37 PM ET

The stock market swoon over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac this week has left many consumers scratching their heads, wondering if buying a home is a worse idea than it was seven days ago or whether to take down the “for sale” sign in the yard.

So now is a good time to step back and assess the landscape.

Thus far, the biggest damage has been mostly to Fannie’s and Freddie’s investors, though the overall stock market has recoiled as the companies stumbled. In the housing market, consumers are still moving into new homes, and people continued to close on new loans Friday.

But if you are shopping for a home or a mortgage or considering selling a home, you may wonder what will happen next if things get worse for Fannie and Freddie. Will mortgage rates rise, and home prices fall further? Could the troubles affect the rates you are charged for other loans? Answering these questions starts with a brief (I promise) primer on what the two entities do and why they’re important.

In the beginning, there’s a mortgage lender. It can lend you money it has taken in from deposits on checking accounts and certificates of deposit if it wants. But many lenders choose to sell most or all of their home loans once they make them, and then use the proceeds of the sale to make even more loans.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are the buyers for many of these loans, which makes them crucial to the continued ability of companies to lend money to you and me for a house. Freddie likens itself to a wholesaler supplying a retail store: the retail store is a bank selling money.

Once Fannie and Freddie have bought enough loans, they turn many of them into bonds and sell those bonds to investors. Your mutual funds may hold many of them, something many consumers may just be noticing, after letting out a sigh of relief because they were not planning to buy or sell a home anytime soon.

The mortgage financing system hums along until Fannie and Freddie have trouble raising money to buy loans, or it costs them more to raise the money. And that’s what is happening now. “That increased cost must be passed along; it’s the nature of the beast,” says Keith T. Gumbinger, vice president of the financial publisher HSH Associates, where he has tracked mortgage rates for more than two decades.

The question then is how, if at all, any of these higher costs will be passed along through the mortgage lenders to consumers.

As of Friday, not much had changed, and mortgage bankers were putting on a brave face. “It is business as usual, and rates have held steady for the past two days,” said David G. Kittle, chairman elect of the Mortgage Bankers Association and chief executive of Principle Wholesale Lending in Louisville, Ky. He said the company locked in rates for one buyer and two people who were refinancing on Friday morning, as the stocks plummeted, and that the hand-wringing over Fannie and Freddie amounts to a “media feeding frenzy.”

Karen Shaw Petrou, managing partner of policy consultant Federal Financial Analytics, sees a remote possibility that mortgage rates could in fact fall. If the federal government took control of Fannie and Freddie, a possibility that the Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., seemed to discount in a statement Friday, the companies’ financing costs would probably drop some because government control suggests a government guarantee. Until now, the government has provided credit lines to the companies but stopped short of such a promise.

Many mortgage experts, however, expect rates to rise a quarter percentage point to half a point in the coming weeks. The average rate on Thursday for a prime 30-year fixed-rate nonjumbo mortgage was about 6.45 percent for someone not paying special fees known as points to lower the rate, according to HSH Associates data. That kind of spike wouldn’t be too unusual at a time when rates often rise and fall by at least that much over a period of weeks, for any number of reasons.

Over the longer term, a dysfunctional Freddie and Fannie could send mortgage rates higher than they would have been otherwise, relative to key market rates like Treasury securities.

For now, if you’re considering buying a house or refinancing a mortgage, and that rate rise is enough to make a difference, then maybe the deal is not affordable. “If someone is so tight that a quarter point kills a deal, they probably ought to be rethinking what they’re doing,” says Bert Ely, a banking consultant in Alexandria, Va.


For mortgage shoppers comfortable with loans at today’s prices, now is the time to lock in, or guarantee, an interest rate with the lender, which can effectively set the rate over the life of a fixed-rate loan. Given the current uncertainty, there’s always the possibility that lenders will be less willing to offer rate locks in the coming weeks.

Outside the mortgage industry, there is some concern that a further crippled Fannie and Freddie could make it harder for consumers to borrow in all forms. “There is a contagion effect. If investors in various kinds of loans get concerned about one kind of capital market, it can spread to other markets,” said Mark Kantrowitz, who runs the college financing site FinAid.org and saw this firsthand in student loans over the past year or so. “They tend to pull back from everything, not just their initial area of concern.”

All the consternation this week only highlights how much rests on the value of our homes and shows that loan pricing and availability can keep the value from falling further. “The implications run everywhere, through to consumer spending and state and local governments,” said Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody’s Economy.com. “Anything that exacerbates the problem is very bad news. It’s just sticking a finger into an already deep and festering wound.”

Mr. Zandi said he thought the federal government would step in to stabilize the situation if mortgage rates rose much more than that quarter or half point.

The government might take any number of steps to buck up the two ailing entities. The bonds that Fannie and Freddie sell are held all over the world, by mutual funds and foreign governments. Any hint that those securities are in peril could further undermine faith in the United States economy, given that Fannie and Freddie were created and chartered by the American government.

In an election year, meanwhile, with the housing market already lousy in most places, the federal government will almost certainly do everything in its power to make sure that banks have continued access to Fannie and Freddie funds for loans to creditworthy home buyers.

JR
13-07-08, 17:51
IMHO:
Pros of Clover: 1) Low site coverage, ie. huge amt of space inside the condo compound for residents to roam around.

Cons:
1) Inconvenient location stuck in the midst of HDB flats with HDB neighbours overlooking into your units.

2) Surrounded in all directions by HDB. Good luck to those who bought units facing the park. Understand that in the future there would be more high rise developments coming up in front of those park facing units.

3) Those units facing Bishan North Shopping Mall oso will be blocked by a new development DBSS coming up just beside Whitely Sec sch.

4) Personally dont like the huge space wastage from the entrance to the area besides the kitchen. These area are supposed to be common area and unscrupulous developers just include inside your unit and make u pay for it. Imagaine removing the slanting entrance and make the door entrance just beside the kitchen would be more reasonable.

5) Huge Balcony and Planter space is a big wastage again. With the TOP of more projects this yr and going forward, i think people are starting to wake up to the idea of "liveable" or "useable" space again.

Good luck to all those vested...

wannabe
13-07-08, 18:09
IMHO:
Pros of Clover: 1) Low site coverage, ie. huge amt of space inside the condo compound for residents to roam around.

Cons:
1) Inconvenient location stuck in the midst of HDB flats with HDB neighbours overlooking into your units.

2) Surrounded in all directions by HDB. Good luck to those who bought units facing the park. Understand that in the future there would be more high rise developments coming up in front of those park facing units.

3) Those units facing Bishan North Shopping Mall oso will be blocked by a new development DBSS coming up just beside Whitely Sec sch.

4) Personally dont like the huge space wastage from the entrance to the area besides the kitchen. These area are supposed to be common area and unscrupulous developers just include inside your unit and make u pay for it. Imagaine removing the slanting entrance and make the door entrance just beside the kitchen would be more reasonable.

5) Huge Balcony and Planter space is a big wastage again. With the TOP of more projects this yr and going forward, i think people are starting to wake up to the idea of "liveable" or "useable" space again.

Good luck to all those vested...

Well said.

momo
13-07-08, 18:57
IMHO:
Pros of Clover: 1) Low site coverage, ie. huge amt of space inside the condo compound for residents to roam around.

Cons:
1) Inconvenient location stuck in the midst of HDB flats with HDB neighbours overlooking into your units.

2) Surrounded in all directions by HDB. Good luck to those who bought units facing the park. Understand that in the future there would be more high rise developments coming up in front of those park facing units.

3) Those units facing Bishan North Shopping Mall oso will be blocked by a new development DBSS coming up just beside Whitely Sec sch.

4) Personally dont like the huge space wastage from the entrance to the area besides the kitchen. These area are supposed to be common area and unscrupulous developers just include inside your unit and make u pay for it. Imagaine removing the slanting entrance and make the door entrance just beside the kitchen would be more reasonable.

5) Huge Balcony and Planter space is a big wastage again. With the TOP of more projects this yr and going forward, i think people are starting to wake up to the idea of "liveable" or "useable" space again.

Good luck to all those vested...

In Singapore... its hard to get totally unblock views...
even if u buy condos like Kovan Residences, chances are, your pool view will have yor neighbours looking into you....
i think the park view is ok and i dont think i will be worried if a HDB occupant across the park at AMK Av1 will try to look into my unit...
lastly, HDB next door goes up to 10th floor only, so buying above that should be ok.

Balcony space was interesting.... since i have an expensive bike i would put it outside and may also do a water feature....
the big yard behind the kitchen is just what we need to get the clothes dry....

so its really up to individual...

Clover Lover
13-07-08, 21:43
IMHO:
Pros of Clover: 1) Low site coverage, ie. huge amt of space inside the condo compound for residents to roam around.

Cons:
1) Inconvenient location stuck in the midst of HDB flats with HDB neighbours overlooking into your units.

2) Surrounded in all directions by HDB. Good luck to those who bought units facing the park. Understand that in the future there would be more high rise developments coming up in front of those park facing units.

3) Those units facing Bishan North Shopping Mall oso will be blocked by a new development DBSS coming up just beside Whitely Sec sch.

4) Personally dont like the huge space wastage from the entrance to the area besides the kitchen. These area are supposed to be common area and unscrupulous developers just include inside your unit and make u pay for it. Imagaine removing the slanting entrance and make the door entrance just beside the kitchen would be more reasonable.

5) Huge Balcony and Planter space is a big wastage again. With the TOP of more projects this yr and going forward, i think people are starting to wake up to the idea of "liveable" or "useable" space again.

Good luck to all those vested...

Would like to correct your understanding in point 2.
The area marked out is for the PUB-National Park Board project to develop that area to fun fill water theme activities area.
Please refer to this link: http://www.adb.org/Water/Operations/2007/Awdo-Experts-Meeting/pdf/PUB-presentation-media-workshop23August.pdf

CloverClover
13-07-08, 21:51
Would like to correct your understanding in point 2.
The area marked out is for the PUB-National Park Board project to develop that area to fun fill water theme activities area.
Please refer to this link: http://www.adb.org/Water/Operations/2007/Awdo-Experts-Meeting/pdf/PUB-presentation-media-workshop23August.pdf

This news is accurate. Further to this, there are more info in the web on the parks development, such as:
http://wildsingaporenews.blogspot.com/2008/06/keeping-it-fresh-water-will-flow-from.html

Facts on Bishan Parks
13-07-08, 21:54
This news is accurate. Further to this, there are more info in the web on the parks development, such as:
http://wildsingaporenews.blogspot.com/2008/06/keeping-it-fresh-water-will-flow-from.html
Keeping it fresh Water will flow from Marina Barrage to Upper Peirce Reservoir – and vice versa

Lin Yanqin, Today Online 27 Jun 08;

TO MAKE the Marina Reservoir created by the Marina Barrage more than just a stagnant body of water, underground drains are going to be built so that water can circulate throughout Singapore’s water channels, keeping the lake fresh.

This project — called the Marina Reservoir Recirculation Scheme :— was one of several tender announcements made by PUB yesterday, at the Singapore International Water Week Water Expo.

When completed in 2010, water from Upper Peirce Reservoir will be released into the new drainage channels leading to various tributaries, which then lead to Marina Reservoir. This will complement the pipe that will pump water from Marina Reservoir, already under construction, into Upper Peirce Reservoir, allowing water to circulate between the two reservoirs.

“It will create flowing water, which will help to improve water quality,” saidMr Devaray Sanmuganathan, PUB’s deputy director of best sourcing. Four tenders for various phases of the scheme will be called later this year.

Also announced yesterday were tenders for PUB’s Active, Beautiful, Clean Waters programme to develop Jurong Lake in the Western catchment area, and Bishan Park, Sungei Kallang and Alexandra Park in the Central catchment area.

Bishan Park, for instance, will see a stream created within the park, with water from the Kallang River drawn and filtered through an existing canal. This will result in a clean body of water for recreation activities.

Other ideas PUB have in mind to transform these water channels and bodies include additional landscaping, fishing platforms and a geyser in the middle of Jurong Lake.

A tender will also be called for the Eastern catchment this year, though details are still unavailable.

PUB will also call for bids to build additional membrane bioreactor plants to meet additional demand at two of its water reclamation plants, Jurong and Ulu Pandan, to meet increasing demand, said Mr Devaray.

Since making such advance tender announcements before the actual calling of tenders, PUB has been able to reach out to a bigger pool of partners, contractors and suppliers for its various projects. “Anecdotally, we have seen more price competitive rates,” said Mr Devaray.

Altogether, PUB will be announcing 120 tenders over the next 12 months, with the projects estimated to cost about$1.1 billion in all.

Last year, about $995 million worth of projects were tendered.

Clover Yeah
13-07-08, 22:08
This news is accurate. Further to this, there are more info in the web on the parks development, such as:
http://wildsingaporenews.blogspot.com/2008/06/keeping-it-fresh-water-will-flow-from.html

Yeah, thats right.
Bishan Park still remains a park. This is can be also confirmed by the URA materplan 2008 as referred. http://www.ura.gov.sg/dmp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=C

parkview
13-07-08, 22:53
i think he was referring to more HDBs in AMK AVE 1 to be build with high floors...
but thats really far away...

besides.. if u bought block 6, stick to low floors below 7 and u will have a great peaceful view........

Bishan Park watcher
13-07-08, 23:03
i think he was referring to more HDBs in AMK AVE 1 to be build with high floors...
but thats really far away...

besides.. if u bought block 6, stick to low floors below 7 and u will have a great peaceful view........

Another piece of info, the water scape projects will intergrate a river into the Bishan Park
http://www.topos.de/PDFs/1183018183.pdf

JR
13-07-08, 23:09
In Singapore... its hard to get totally unblock views...
even if u buy condos like Kovan Residences, chances are, your pool view will have yor neighbours looking into you....
i think the park view is ok and i dont think i will be worried if a HDB occupant across the park at AMK Av1 will try to look into my unit...
lastly, HDB next door goes up to 10th floor only, so buying above that should be ok.

Balcony space was interesting.... since i have an expensive bike i would put it outside and may also do a water feature....
the big yard behind the kitchen is just what we need to get the clothes dry....

so its really up to individual...

I agree that it is hard to get totally unblock views, what i meant is it may not be worth paying a premium to buy units facing the park.... knowing NOW that in future the stretch from Blk 221 to 241 along Kallang river is going to be developed into high rise developments. Yes unblock park view for the next 5 yrs as correctly pointed out by Masterplan 2008. But don't expect that to be a long term thing. The story would be someting like The Bayshore and Costa Del Sol.

Maybe one can consider Blk 35x at the AMK side near the AMK swimming complex, got park and even pool view :)

Well, paying >$700+psf for balcony space is ok i guess, cos maybe it is cheap. But comparatively, if the psf is >$1k+, would one rather trade the wasted space fo liveable space, unless one sleeps on the balcony :)

JR
13-07-08, 23:22
Would like to correct your understanding in point 2.
The area marked out is for the PUB-National Park Board project to develop that area to fun fill water theme activities area.
Please refer to this link: http://www.adb.org/Water/Operations/2007/Awdo-Experts-Meeting/pdf/PUB-presentation-media-workshop23August.pdf

Yes i know there are plans to beautify the lonkang now, but that doesn't change the fact that in future there will be another high rise development... thus "crushing" the dream of some who presume there will be park view. Yes park view for the next 5 yrs, but after that..... Good Luck :)

x man
13-07-08, 23:40
Yes i know there are plans to beautify the lonkang now, but that doesn't change the fact that in future there will be another high rise development... thus "crushing" the dream of some who presume there will be park view. Yes park view for the next 5 yrs, but after that..... Good Luck :)
Well, if you are not buying because of the high rise development, then don't buy . why do you worry other people preferences. Maybe they like it that way, but any way it has nothing to do with you.

i luv colver
13-07-08, 23:49
In Singapore... its hard to get totally unblock views...
even if u buy condos like Kovan Residences, chances are, your pool view will have yor neighbours looking into you....
i think the park view is ok and i dont think i will be worried if a HDB occupant across the park at AMK Av1 will try to look into my unit...
lastly, HDB next door goes up to 10th floor only, so buying above that should be ok.

Balcony space was interesting.... since i have an expensive bike i would put it outside and may also do a water feature....
the big yard behind the kitchen is just what we need to get the clothes dry....

so its really up to individual...

Yup. second to your view. difficult to get totally unblock when u chose to purchase this type of mass market condo. IMHO, above 12 storey in clover would have a better chance to get "higher" than your neighbourhood HDB fellows. Just think that the ceiling height is at whopping 3.15m!!!
Personally don't like park view. Am already booked a unit in Blk 2 stack 5. Initially wanted stack 9 but when the blk 2 was launched on 3 July, quickly bring down cheque book and placed a unit in stack 5.
For those who don't like park view, would recommend stack 5 as its NS facing (afternoon sun already blocked by stack 2 to 4) and its not block by Blk 6 (still can have some good view to the park) as both buildings are tilted at an angle and not directly facing inline to each other. Also, shorter walking distance to the opposite shopping mall thru' the side gate.
Agreed that the planters and the entrance walkway took up sustaintial amount of usable spaces, but the balcony in the kitchen would be useful for hanging clothes (this is the first condo I've seen and believed all the wifes would applause). Other reasons that urged me to sign would be the psf (<$750), location (Bishan), developer's reputation (sim lian), nearby amenities (Bishan north shopping mall just across the road), plot ratio (3.5, around 65% of the space is used for landscaping, the rest are for the two towers), and estimated maintenance fee of $185 for my four-bedder.
Lastly, I opined that anything above $800 psf for a 99 years condo would be over-priced base on today market rate. Rather go for a FH.
Looking at the construction pace now (sim lian is well-known for their fast and shift construction works), am hoping to get the key in mid-2011. cheers.

wannabe
13-07-08, 23:58
Yup. second to your view. difficult to get totally unblock when u chose to purchase this type of mass market condo. IMHO, above 12 storey in clover would have a better chance to get "higher" than your neighbourhood HDB fellows. Just think that the ceiling height is at whopping 3.15m!!!
Personally don't like park view. Am already booked a unit in Blk 2 stack 5. Initially wanted stack 9 but when the blk 2 was launched on 3 July, quickly bring down cheque book and placed a unit in stack 5.
For those who don't like park view, would recommend stack 5 as its NS facing (afternoon sun already blocked by stack 2 to 4) and its not block by Blk 6 (still can have some good view to the park) as both buildings are tilted at an angle and not directly facing inline to each other. Also, shorter walking distance to the opposite shopping mall thru' the side gate.
Agreed that the planters and the entrance walkway took up sustaintial amount of usable spaces, but the balcony in the kitchen would be useful for hanging clothes (this is the first condo I've seen and believed all the wifes would applause). Other reasons that urged me to sign would be the psf (<$750), location (Bishan), developer's reputation (sim lian), nearby amenities (Bishan north shopping mall just across the road), plot ratio (3.5, around 65% of the space is used for landscaping, the rest are for the two towers), and estimated maintenance fee of $185 for my four-bedder.
Lastly, I opined that anything above $800 psf for a 99 years condo would be over-priced base on today market rate. Rather go for a FH.
Looking at the construction pace now (sim lian is well-known for their fast and shift construction works), am hoping to get the key in mid-2011. cheers.

Hi, whats the GFA of the entire development and how many units in all?

annoyed
14-07-08, 00:14
Yes i know there are plans to beautify the lonkang now, but that doesn't change the fact that in future there will be another high rise development... thus "crushing" the dream of some who presume there will be park view. Yes park view for the next 5 yrs, but after that..... Good Luck :)

wo bian, unless you are pocket fully loaded, else where to get totally unblock view in this tiny Sillypore? Would suggest you buy a mountain in remote china area (they have plenty of that) and built you own house on top of the hill...totally unblock and might have a good view to the Great wall of China.
cannot eat grape say grape sour....siah...good luck to your unblock searching too..

i luv colver
14-07-08, 00:16
Hi, whats the GFA of the entire development and how many units in all?

GFA not sure. total 616 units in two tower. each tower 39 storeys.

Cloverowner
14-07-08, 06:47
GFA not sure. total 616 units in two tower. each tower 39 storeys.

What is the land area for Clover?

Cloverowner
14-07-08, 06:48
Yup. second to your view. difficult to get totally unblock when u chose to purchase this type of mass market condo. IMHO, above 12 storey in clover would have a better chance to get "higher" than your neighbourhood HDB fellows. Just think that the ceiling height is at whopping 3.15m!!!
Personally don't like park view. Am already booked a unit in Blk 2 stack 5. Initially wanted stack 9 but when the blk 2 was launched on 3 July, quickly bring down cheque book and placed a unit in stack 5.
For those who don't like park view, would recommend stack 5 as its NS facing (afternoon sun already blocked by stack 2 to 4) and its not block by Blk 6 (still can have some good view to the park) as both buildings are tilted at an angle and not directly facing inline to each other. Also, shorter walking distance to the opposite shopping mall thru' the side gate.
Agreed that the planters and the entrance walkway took up sustaintial amount of usable spaces, but the balcony in the kitchen would be useful for hanging clothes (this is the first condo I've seen and believed all the wifes would applause). Other reasons that urged me to sign would be the psf (<$750), location (Bishan), developer's reputation (sim lian), nearby amenities (Bishan north shopping mall just across the road), plot ratio (3.5, around 65% of the space is used for landscaping, the rest are for the two towers), and estimated maintenance fee of $185 for my four-bedder.
Lastly, I opined that anything above $800 psf for a 99 years condo would be over-priced base on today market rate. Rather go for a FH.
Looking at the construction pace now (sim lian is well-known for their fast and shift construction works), am hoping to get the key in mid-2011. cheers.

I believe all recent Sim Lian have big yards... either you love it or dislike it.

cl0ver
14-07-08, 08:06
i think their moto is CREATE SPACE !!

Unregistered5
14-07-08, 08:33
may i know how many lifts there are to serve each block please?

Unregistered11
14-07-08, 10:54
its 8 units per floor served by 4 lifts.... catering 39 floors....

Unregistered99
14-07-08, 11:16
I agree that it is hard to get totally unblock views, what i meant is it may not be worth paying a premium to buy units facing the park.... knowing NOW that in future the stretch from Blk 221 to 241 along Kallang river is going to be developed into high rise developments. Yes unblock park view for the next 5 yrs as correctly pointed out by Masterplan 2008. But don't expect that to be a long term thing. The story would be someting like The Bayshore and Costa Del Sol.

Maybe one can consider Blk 35x at the AMK side near the AMK swimming complex, got park and even pool view :)

Well, paying >$700+psf for balcony space is ok i guess, cos maybe it is cheap. But comparatively, if the psf is >$1k+, would one rather trade the wasted space fo liveable space, unless one sleeps on the balcony :)

i dont think its a premium considering that park view was launched first and i just checked that block 2 launched with higher prices....
i mean someone got park view at $690 psft! no doubt there are a lot of space but depends on how you use them..... they are not totally unusable, just need some creativity..... especially if u have dogs that likes to roam around....

seriously, if u want park view... go for 3-6 floor.... no way u will see the blocks on the other side of the park..... you get full park view with trees and the future river....

the landscaping is good too.... doesnt feel cramp and probably amazed with the height of the 2 storeys as you swim or have bbq with the family

Unregistered88
14-07-08, 16:03
heard from one agent that alot of China PRs were buying Clover..... they buy in groups to stay next to each other.....
so, in fact its popular not to HDB upgraders, but mostly PRs who are now comparing the HDB resale market and the LH market.....

i know alot of PRs mostly malaysians with income gap between 100-150k p.a.
these are the ones that would not like to live in HDBs but would not go for high end condos..... so they go for these mass market projects.....

they formed the middle income tiers....
their arguments may not be specific to LH vs FH or near MRT or near HDBs...or near good schools as how Singaporeans will market them...

to them its just whether they like it or not.... do they like the quality, the ceilng height, the extra space, the park view.... which are more subjective in nature....

Unregistered007
14-07-08, 16:52
heard from one agent that alot of China PRs were buying Clover..... they buy in groups to stay next to each other.....
so, in fact its popular not to HDB upgraders, but mostly PRs who are now comparing the HDB resale market and the LH market.....

i know alot of PRs mostly malaysians with income gap between 100-150k p.a.
these are the ones that would not like to live in HDBs but would not go for high end condos..... so they go for these mass market projects.....

they formed the middle income tiers....
their arguments may not be specific to LH vs FH or near MRT or near HDBs...or near good schools as how Singaporeans will market them...

to them its just whether they like it or not.... do they like the quality, the ceilng height, the extra space, the park view.... which are more subjective in nature....
they might not be able to appreciate the proximity to MRT now, but i'm sure they will later.

anyway, that explains why Clover has got such good response. Bishan isn't that bad an investment too since it is not that far from the city.

JR
14-07-08, 17:31
wo bian, unless you are pocket fully loaded, else where to get totally unblock view in this tiny Sillypore? Would suggest you buy a mountain in remote china area (they have plenty of that) and built you own house on top of the hill...totally unblock and might have a good view to the Great wall of China.
cannot eat grape say grape sour....siah...good luck to your unblock searching too..

My friend, I am not against blocked/ unblocked view but i just want to raise the awareness and consumers ultimately decide. The fact is part of current Bishan park will be converted to high rise devt in future regardless of any PUB beautifying efforts. Anyway i am not vested because of the incovenient location to anywhere without driving and the terror of using CTE. Every project has its fans. Good luck :)

Hi
14-07-08, 17:34
My friend, I am not against blocked/ unblocked view but i just want to raise the awareness and consumers ultimately decide. The fact is part of current Bishan park will be converted to high rise devt in future regardless of any PUB beautifying efforts. Anyway i am not vested because of the incovenient location to anywhere without driving and the terror of using CTE. Every project has its fans. Good luck :)

Bishan park is quite big and stretches quite a distance...which part of it would be affected?

BV
14-07-08, 17:49
Bishan park is quite big and stretches quite a distance...which part of it would be affected?

Maybe this will help.... it's from HDB site. Can you spot the plot of land Clover sits on? The park area directly in front of it is marked "future high rise residences".

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10297p.nsf/ImageView/CORPORATE_PR_26122207_ANNEX_A.JPG/$file/Location+Plan.jpg (http://forums.condosingapore.com/)

Not consistent with URA Master Plan though, which marks the area as park. So, which agency presents the most accurate/updated picture? Wouldn't know unless we work there i suppose. But would you even want to take the little bit of risk that high rise flats get built right in front of your unit?

PS: Not vested in any way....

annoyed again
14-07-08, 17:52
My friend, I am not against blocked/ unblocked view but i just want to raise the awareness and consumers ultimately decide. The fact is part of current Bishan park will be converted to high rise devt in future regardless of any PUB beautifying efforts. Anyway i am not vested because of the incovenient location to anywhere without driving and the terror of using CTE. Every project has its fans. Good luck :)

Yup. my friend, this forum discussions are for clover's fans to share, pls u go elsewhere to raise awareness if u not vested. Thank you.

i luv colver
14-07-08, 18:05
heard from one agent that alot of China PRs were buying Clover..... they buy in groups to stay next to each other.....
so, in fact its popular not to HDB upgraders, but mostly PRs who are now comparing the HDB resale market and the LH market.....

i know alot of PRs mostly malaysians with income gap between 100-150k p.a.
these are the ones that would not like to live in HDBs but would not go for high end condos..... so they go for these mass market projects.....

they formed the middle income tiers....
their arguments may not be specific to LH vs FH or near MRT or near HDBs...or near good schools as how Singaporeans will market them...

to them its just whether they like it or not.... do they like the quality, the ceilng height, the extra space, the park view.... which are more subjective in nature....

in that case I would expect less congestion in the car park since minority of them don't drive. Don't see much differences since currently its common to have "united nation" even for HDB dwellers...

Clarification
14-07-08, 18:27
Maybe this will help.... it's from HDB site. Can you spot the plot of land Clover sits on? The park area directly in front of it is marked "future high rise residences".

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10297p.nsf/ImageView/CORPORATE_PR_26122207_ANNEX_A.JPG/$file/Location+Plan.jpg (http://forums.condosingapore.com/)

Not consistent with URA Master Plan though, which marks the area as park. So, which agency presents the most accurate/updated picture? Wouldn't know unless we work there i suppose. But would you even want to take the little bit of risk that high rise flats get built right in front of your unit?

PS: Not vested in any way....

In the URA 2003 plan, this plan is in but is subsequently plan out and replace with the remake of the waterscape and river making.
So it is a change of plan. This is a case of using old news to confuse with new news.....

Unre
14-07-08, 18:49
i'll be surprised if they build a nice stream of water and then to wreck it by building high rise construction!

anyway, that section is filled with 3 restaurants and a spa already right?

BV
14-07-08, 20:59
In the URA 2003 plan, this plan is in but is subsequently plan out and replace with the remake of the waterscape and river making.
So it is a change of plan. This is a case of using old news to confuse with new news.....

Just checked the 2003 and 2008 versions of the URA masterplan. You are right, I guess we can assume that URA changed their zoning for the plot of land in question for the 2008 version. Still makes me feel a little uneasy though..

Regarding the stream, from what I understand from the posting by another forummer earlier, it seems that a stream will be created in Bishan Park, but the canal right in front of Clover and the HDBs will remain, and be used as a 'filter' to clean the water from the stream... Anybody got a different intepretation of the below article?


Keeping it fresh Water will flow from Marina Barrage to Upper Peirce Reservoir – and vice versa

Lin Yanqin, Today Online 27 Jun 08;

TO MAKE the Marina Reservoir created by the Marina Barrage more than just a stagnant body of water, underground drains are going to be built so that water can circulate throughout Singapore’s water channels, keeping the lake fresh.

This project — called the Marina Reservoir Recirculation Scheme :— was one of several tender announcements made by PUB yesterday, at the Singapore International Water Week Water Expo.

When completed in 2010, water from Upper Peirce Reservoir will be released into the new drainage channels leading to various tributaries, which then lead to Marina Reservoir. This will complement the pipe that will pump water from Marina Reservoir, already under construction, into Upper Peirce Reservoir, allowing water to circulate between the two reservoirs.

“It will create flowing water, which will help to improve water quality,” saidMr Devaray Sanmuganathan, PUB’s deputy director of best sourcing. Four tenders for various phases of the scheme will be called later this year.

Also announced yesterday were tenders for PUB’s Active, Beautiful, Clean Waters programme to develop Jurong Lake in the Western catchment area, and Bishan Park, Sungei Kallang and Alexandra Park in the Central catchment area.

Bishan Park, for instance, will see a stream created within the park, with water from the Kallang River drawn and filtered through an existing canal. This will result in a clean body of water for recreation activities.

Other ideas PUB have in mind to transform these water channels and bodies include additional landscaping, fishing platforms and a geyser in the middle of Jurong Lake.

A tender will also be called for the Eastern catchment this year, though details are still unavailable.

PUB will also call for bids to build additional membrane bioreactor plants to meet additional demand at two of its water reclamation plants, Jurong and Ulu Pandan, to meet increasing demand, said Mr Devaray.

Since making such advance tender announcements before the actual calling of tenders, PUB has been able to reach out to a bigger pool of partners, contractors and suppliers for its various projects. “Anecdotally, we have seen more price competitive rates,” said Mr Devaray.

Altogether, PUB will be announcing 120 tenders over the next 12 months, with the projects estimated to cost about$1.1 billion in all.

Last year, about $995 million worth of projects were tendered.

cl0ver
14-07-08, 21:12
the longkang IS the stream lah
look at these 2 pictures. That is what the Marina Barage is for. Filter clean water then pass it through singapore......
Its like what the did in downtown Seoul in Korea......


http://www.topos.de/PDFs/1183018183.pdf

http://www.adb.org/Water/Operations/2007/Awdo-Experts-Meeting/pdf/PUB-presentation-media-workshop23August.pdf

WowClover
14-07-08, 21:31
This is the Bishan Toa Payoh Town Council Newsletter Jan - Mar 08 Issues.
WaterFront Living
http://www.btptc.org.sg/E%20News/NewsLetter/Issues/issue%2079.pdf

It is understood the tendering for the project will happen in Nov 2008, which means when the waterscape will be ready when Clover TOP.

Wow

unreeeee
14-07-08, 21:33
here is how it will look like...
water will overflow from the canal and into parts of the park.....
so, that means they will have to renovate the canal, expand it and build stuffs in it.....steps... walk paths....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/cikgoo/BishanStream.jpg

CloverWater
14-07-08, 21:51
An agent told me that about 50% of the 616 units are sold.
90% from Blk 6 and about 50 units in Blk 2. And the developer has increased the selling price by an average of $20 psf.
This will implies that the developer has enough cash flow already and can afford a slower pace of selling

BV
14-07-08, 23:17
Buyers of the park facing units should be more reassured now that their view and stream are going to be around in the future.

Congrats to the early buyers of the park facing units. These are the best units in the development by far, the rest aren't really worthwhile (especially with any price increase by the developer).

Personally feel that the finishing by Sim Lian is not bad, and although it is true that a lot of the so-called floor area goes to planters, balconies and bay windows, these are designed in a nice and pleasant manner. I have seen much worse. However, feel that the dining area for 4 BR units are way too small, hard to squeeze a even a 6 seater dining table in. Strangely enough, the 3 BR units have a larger dining area and comparable living room area.

mr funny
15-07-08, 09:59
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/suite/story/0,4574,287712,00.html?

Published July 15, 2008

Condo sales at showflats tapering off

One developer blames Livia's pricing for 'spoiling' other projects' sales

By KALPANA RASHIWALA


WHILE City Developments managed to sell 96 units last week at its Livia condo at Pasir Ris, developers of most other projects suffered rapidly declining sales at their showflats.

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2008-07-15/BT_IMAGES_KRTAKE15.jpg
Woodsville 28: When Frasers Centrepoint previews its project this weekend, the stakes for nearby Kovan Residences are expected to go up

At least one developer blamed Livia's attractive pricing - $650 psf on average - for 'spoiling' sales of other projects, while others said a tapering off was to be expected given negative news flows from overseas on the state of the financial and stock markets.

Developers and property agents generally reported still strong turnouts at showflats last weekend, although take-up slowed.

Sim Lian sold 19 units last week at its Clover By The Park condo in Bishan, less than the 59-unit sales it achieved in the preceding week. To date, Sim Lian has sold 273 of the total 616 units in the project. 'That's almost 45 per cent of a large project in just three weeks; that's quite an achievement given current market sentiment,' Sim Lian Group executive director Diana Kuik said when approached by BT.

The 99-year leasehold project's average price remains at $750 psf.

Sim Lian also sold a unit at The Amery, a freehold project in the Telok Kurau area, last week - again a less sparkling performance than the four units it sold a week earlier.

Next to Geylang River, NTUC Choice Homes and Ho Bee found buyers for another nine units at Dakota Residences last weekend. This brings total sales to 170 units in the 99-year project, which has an average price of about $980 psf.

Over in the Kovan MRT Station vicinity, the developer of Kovan Residences sold about 20 units last week, bringing total sales to over 100 units since the 99-year project was previewed at a private party on June 28. The average price is somewhere in the $870-900 psf range. Nearby, MCL Land sold another three units at its D-Pavilion, a freehold project priced at $900 psf on average last week. This was a slower sales rate than initial sales of 10 units the preceding weekend.

The stakes will go up for these two developers when Frasers Centrepoint previews this weekend its Woodsville 28 near Potong Pasir MRT Station - which is three MRT stops closer to town than Kovan MRT Station.

The 110-unit condo will have an average price of $880 psf. The 99-year leasehold development comprises two 17-storey blocks.

'The two- and three-bedder units, with respective average sizes of 883 sq ft and 1,195 sq ft, are about 5 to 6 per cent smaller than conventional units as we've adjusted our sizes to fit the profile of the market we're targeting - those just starting their families or young couples who want to stay near the city and even retirees.

'Two-bedroom apartments start at $700,000 and three-bedders from just over $1 million,' says Frasers Centrepoint Homes chief operating officer Cheang Kok Kheong.

CDL's spokeswoman said Livia saw strong take-up of various unit types last week, especially two- and three-bedders. 'The four-bedroom apartments were purchased either for owner occupation or rental potential in view of United World College's East Campus coming up in the vicinity.

'The project's average price remains $650 psf, with prices for certain unit types and facing being upped by 1-3 per cent for the latest release of 120 units last weekend,' she added.

The 96 units sold at Livia last week contrasted with sales of 160 units in the preceding week when CDL previewed the 99-year leasehold project, resulting in total sales of 256 units. So far, 320 of the condo's total 724 units have been released.

A veteran property consultant said: 'Crowds were generally still very good at showflats last weekend, though take-up has slowed. In any development, demand for 30-40 per cent of units comes from the surrounding population catchment. Usually that's the case, good or bad times.

'Once sales in a project launch hits a certain percentage from this catchment demand, developers have to attract people from other parts of Singapore. That's a tougher job, with a lot more convincing to be done compared with selling to people who already know the area.'

Another problem is that buyers are unsure of the property market's direction. 'Even when there are attractively priced projects, potential buyers worry if property prices will go down further. They also ask themselves whether they really need to upgrade; they worry about the economy and their jobs. The bad news coming out from financial institutions in the US is a big concern,' a property agent said.

On a more positive note, Sim Lian's Ms Kuik said: 'If you have a good product in a location where there's a pool of buyers and if your pricing is reasonable, there will be take-up.'

URA
15-07-08, 13:02
Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of June 2008

Project Name ....... Locality . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
Clover By The Park . RCR ....... 197 ............................ 877 ................ 765 ............... 602

cl0ver
15-07-08, 19:10
Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of June 2008

Project Name ....... Locality . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
Clover By The Park . RCR ....... 197 ............................ 877 ................ 765 ............... 602

woooohoooo.... $690 is a steal for parkview !!!!!

Unregistered6
15-07-08, 21:08
woooohoooo.... $690 is a steal for parkview !!!!!

Congrats on a good buy :)

Unregistered-11111
15-07-08, 21:59
wow ... how to get a $690 psf????

clover bee
15-07-08, 22:06
Now that all the apartments facing Park are sold out, believe all buyers must be feeling assured they have made the right choices. I shouldnt have procrastinated and missed out on this opportunity. Looks like amongst the launches, Clover is the one doing the best. Imagine with 50% sold, this will mitigate Sim Lian pressure to push their sales. Looks like I bettergo down this weekend to book 1unit (dont care whichfloor lah) for myself. Anygood advice on which stack I should be going for

cl0ver
15-07-08, 22:14
wow ... how to get a $690 psf????

made the decision on day 2 of soft launch lor.....
well, have been eyeing this place for over a year since they began pilling....

cant wait for it to complete.... 39 storeys will be awesomely tall !

Cloverer
15-07-08, 22:19
Hehe I went on the 3rd day of the launch and got a unit on Stack XX-13 :)

cl0ver
15-07-08, 22:21
Hehe I went on the 3rd day of the launch and got a unit on Stack XX-13 :)

sama stack lah....
did u get 3bder or 4bder?

Clover King
15-07-08, 22:22
HeeHee Hee Hee, Luckily I went on day 1 and bought the a unit above 35th floor for an $830 psf

cloverer
15-07-08, 22:30
HeeHee Hee Hee, Luckily I went on day 1 and bought the a unit above 35th floor for an $830 psf

wow....
was thinking of touching the skies too....
but prefered the scenic park view so opted for low floors.... and saved heaps for future reno....

already thinking of building a Bar at the entrance!!!

Cloverer
15-07-08, 22:40
sama stack lah....
did u get 3bder or 4bder?

Got a 3 Bder.... low floor.. Park view akan Datang Waterway view :)

cl0ver
15-07-08, 22:59
Got a 3 Bder.... low floor.. Park view akan Datang Waterway view :)

must be very close to me....

Unregistered_1100
15-07-08, 23:27
went on the 1st day .... low floor ...park view .... was pricing at $750 psf ... don't understand how to get $690???

i iuv clover
15-07-08, 23:36
went on the 1st day .... low floor ...park view .... was pricing at $750 psf ... don't understand how to get $690???

cannot be leh....mine stack 5 above 14 floor was quoted $731....

unre
15-07-08, 23:38
you probably got a bad agent.....
i can only speak for stack 13 as most of stack 16 were taken on Day 1...
in fact below 6 floor of stack 13 are all priced under $690 for sure.....

rush to buy
15-07-08, 23:38
Hehe I went on the 3rd day of the launch and got a unit on Stack XX-13 :)

Bro, stack 13 got afternnoon sun.....stack 16 would be a better choice..

Unregistered_1100
15-07-08, 23:43
Cloverer ... who is your agent that serve you? from orangetee???

Sun
15-07-08, 23:43
Don't be old fashioned lah. Afternoon sun is fine and good for fengshui. And Singapore always rain one. Just close curtain for 1-2 hours will do.


Bro, stack 13 got afternnoon sun.....stack 16 would be a better choice..

Unregistered_1100
15-07-08, 23:49
Unre ... any good agent to recomend???

cl0ver
15-07-08, 23:52
if u look properly, the buildings are N/S oriented.
Stack 13 gets evening sun on the master bathroom and your backyard probably gets the clothes dry faster. I dont think u get much sun from the balcony or room windows since its totally north facing.

Stack 16 may be popular with morning sun and marginally better parkview but its much nearer to the HDB on the right. The showroom appears to be bias-ly constructed nearer to the HDB on the left but u need to factor in the new St 25 plus BBQ pits, plus children playground... so that makes stack 13 further away from the HDBs..

anyways, bo pian.... on Day 2, stack 16 low floors only left floor 1 and 2.... too low for comfort.....units also marginally bigger, dunno why.... so pay extra for size and popular sun orientation.

Kaypoh
15-07-08, 23:52
Actually floors 4-6, the so-called "tree-lined" floors are very nice as well. These are the ones the same height as the tree canopy, so if you look outside, it's very green and therapeutic, and might be prettier than v high floors when you only see the sky unless you walk to the balcony and look down. Also, if get afternoon sun, these floors are least affected. I'm just a kaypoh Bukit Timah resident and many condos in bukit timah are below 10 floors due to low plot ratio - so I'm quite used to low floors. So if you can get lower floors at cheaper price, why not? Just sharing...


you probably got a bad agent.....
i can only speak for stack 13 as most of stack 16 were taken on Day 1...
in fact below 6 floor of stack 13 are all priced under $690 for sure.....

rush to buy
15-07-08, 23:58
Don't be old fashioned lah. Afternoon sun is fine and good for fengshui. And Singapore always rain one. Just close curtain for 1-2 hours will do.

not old fashion, speaks from my true experience....my sis house where the living room is facing west...and when sunset....whole room was like an oven...don't under estimate the power of SUN......can feel the wall is buring.....not sure curtain will help and what if it not rain for a month?
my rule of thumb when sourcing for property....Don't ever ever choose a unit directly expose to afternoon sun...

Unregistered00
16-07-08, 00:02
not old fashion, speaks from my true experience....my sis house where the living room is facing west...and when sunset....whole room was like an oven...don't under estimate the power of SUN......can feel the wall is buring.....not sure curtain will help and what if it not rain for a month?
my rule of thumb when sourcing for property....Don't ever ever choose a unit directly expose to afternoon sun...

but do note that all units are N/S facing. None are facing E/W unless u count the bathrooms for corner units.....

cl0ver
16-07-08, 00:05
Actually floors 4-6, the so-called "tree-lined" floors are very nice as well. These are the ones the same height as the tree canopy, so if you look outside, it's very green and therapeutic, and might be prettier than v high floors when you only see the sky unless you walk to the balcony and look down. Also, if get afternoon sun, these floors are least affected. I'm just a kaypoh Bukit Timah resident and many condos in bukit timah are below 10 floors due to low plot ratio - so I'm quite used to low floors. So if you can get lower floors at cheaper price, why not? Just sharing...

well said, in fact me and my wife went to HDB next door to predict the views...
it appears 4th and 5th has the best where u dont see any buildings on the other end.... in Clover's standard since its going to be above ground a bit, its equivalent to 3rd or 4th. since 4th may not be popular, so the choice was 3rd or 5th.....

rogerang
16-07-08, 00:08
Congrats to those who purchased clover. Im sure its a good investmentin in time to come. ready to flip? :scared-4:

rush to buy
16-07-08, 00:11
but do note that all units are N/S facing. None are facing E/W unless u count the bathrooms for corner units.....

exactly...master bathroom and some portion of the bedrooms would be affected....but not for stack 16 as it will be shielded by stack 13 to 15. Resale value will be drop for sure unless the new owner think fengsui far more superior than living in an oven and singapore will be raining everydays....or close all the curtains in daytime during sat & sun....

Unregistered8
16-07-08, 00:11
curious to know is the psf for this development have some link to which agent serve you?

Unregistered88
16-07-08, 00:17
curious to know is the psf for this development have some link to which agent serve you?

don't think so...OrangeT is the authorised agent and price are from developer and have to be concurred by their higher management.

Unregistered8
16-07-08, 00:19
so, is the timing issue right? will only be able to get lower psf if buy earlier.

Unregisteredaaa
16-07-08, 00:22
Yap, surprised to know you lucky one can get $690psf? share your secret lah

Unregistered99
16-07-08, 07:41
Yap, surprised to know you lucky one can get $690psf? share your secret lah

no secret lah.... lowest price was $602 psft rite? probably the ground floor with patio....
but as mentioned, 2nd to 6th or 7th are under $690... on first 2 days of SOFT launch... not official launch......

Elden
16-07-08, 10:07
Anyone bought a unit in the stack #05 like we did? We actually preferred block 2 (the block closer to the road), because we didn't want to walk too far a distance to get out of the condo. Plus, while we were there during the 1st launch of block 6, we weren't ready to commit yet at that time.

We only came back early during the second launch to commit and by then most of the best units in block 6 were taken already. The facing was very important to us also.

#05 faces towards the park as well, and it is only partially blocked by block 6. (both blocks are tilted slightly so they are not directly facing one another). We liked #05 because it would get mainly just some of the morning sun (which is fine) and it is shielded from the afternoon/evening sun. :)

GOGLE
16-07-08, 11:53
Morning sun is worse from my experience. The heat gets trapped in the morning and cannot escape in the afternoon. I've a top floor morning sun condo and feels like oven everyday. My afternoon sun one is better, sun only comes in from 4-5pm and dissipates immediately. Beautiful unblocked view should be more important.


Anyone bought a unit in the stack #05 like we did? We actually preferred block 2 (the block closer to the road), because we didn't want to walk too far a distance to get out of the condo. Plus, while we were there during the 1st launch of block 6, we weren't ready to commit yet at that time.

We only came back early during the second launch to commit and by then most of the best units in block 6 were taken already. The facing was very important to us also.

#05 faces towards the park as well, and it is only partially blocked by block 6. (both blocks are tilted slightly so they are not directly facing one another). We liked #05 because it would get mainly just some of the morning sun (which is fine) and it is shielded from the afternoon/evening sun. :)

4 floor good
16-07-08, 11:57
Aiyoh! If 3rd or 4th then 4th floor is definitely better lah. Fengshui depends on the individual. Look at 2008 - 8 supposed to be auspicious rite? 2008 economy so bad. In fact, the latest fengshui master has come out to say "8" is actually a very bad number. Every time "8" will come recession and all the bad things. Also most people pantang on the unit number, not the floor.

East Coast district is "44" rite? I don't think you should avoid 4th floor. Treeline floors are very nice and will give you house a resort feel. The condo will have trees around it, dun worry.


well said, in fact me and my wife went to HDB next door to predict the views...
it appears 4th and 5th has the best where u dont see any buildings on the other end.... in Clover's standard since its going to be above ground a bit, its equivalent to 3rd or 4th. since 4th may not be popular, so the choice was 3rd or 5th.....

unre
16-07-08, 12:42
Aiyoh! If 3rd or 4th then 4th floor is definitely better lah. Fengshui depends on the individual. Look at 2008 - 8 supposed to be auspicious rite? 2008 economy so bad. In fact, the latest fengshui master has come out to say "8" is actually a very bad number. Every time "8" will come recession and all the bad things. Also most people pantang on the unit number, not the floor.

East Coast district is "44" rite? I don't think you should avoid 4th floor. Treeline floors are very nice and will give you house a resort feel. The condo will have trees around it, dun worry.

well, u may have different views from me, but we have to resign to the fact of what the majority thinks? correct?
4 is not a good number in a chinese dominated society, so it is proven that it can be difficult to sell in future compared to other numbers.
also, you will noticed that each floor has an increment of $3k but when 7 moved to 8th, the increment was $5k? Why? Because majority would think that 8th floor is a good number hence simlian took advantage of market perception and slightly increased the price....
and they are smart, because 9th floor is $3k above 8th, so the gap from 7th to 9th should have been $6k but is infact $8k difference.
That my friend is FACT!

unit
16-07-08, 12:45
doesnt your floor make up the whole unit number?
i mean there should be a unit in stack 14 numbered $14-14
and it was sold.

High Ground
16-07-08, 12:48
I think if u look at the model at the showroom, you will noticed that the ground slopes down towards the park
so, block 6 is actually build on higher ground slightly above the park.

so, i think 1st floor (ground) is equivalent to HDB 2nd floor or even 3rd floor.
and with ceiling of 3.15m, i can safely assume that clover's 8th floor is equivalent to HDB's 10th floor.

anyone agree with me?

and can u imagine what 39th-40th would be like??? HEAVEN!

Unregisteredzzz
16-07-08, 12:51
We brought stack 15 aka #xx-15 at mid floor (considering 39 floors) while we have many choices then. The prices were there and there-abouts already since day 1.
All design, oritentations etc, points towards stack 14, 15 and 16... and I guess proven with all these sold.

Orientation is subjective as long as the buyer is happy! At least I am, and hope those who brought were as well. Those who did not, good luck in getting that dream place, while those thinking of buying Clover, welcome!

Anyone brought stack 15 as neighbours?

Unregistered 4444
16-07-08, 13:26
well, u may have different views from me, but we have to resign to the fact of what the majority thinks? correct?
4 is not a good number in a chinese dominated society, so it is proven that it can be difficult to sell in future compared to other numbers.
also, you will noticed that each floor has an increment of $3k but when 7 moved to 8th, the increment was $5k? Why? Because majority would think that 8th floor is a good number hence simlian took advantage of market perception and slightly increased the price....
and they are smart, because 9th floor is $3k above 8th, so the gap from 7th to 9th should have been $6k but is infact $8k difference.
That my friend is FACT!

I really do not know why people believe in feng shui and all the nonsense of 4 being a bad no. I have a fried who ws very sad when he got a car with registration no 4224 and one month later he was richer by 600k after betting big on the no (4D). After that he kept the car for 10 years.
If everyone hires a feng shui master and make sure his house has the best feng shui, then all Singaporeans will be millionaires, live till 100, etc. All thiese are gimmicks and the ones laughing the best are the Feng shui masters with the millions in their pockets.

Whe will Singaporeans every learn? They can be so smart but so silly when it comes to such superstitions.

8=huat?
16-07-08, 13:46
4 has always been a lucky number for me and I not superstitious at all. I sold my 4 floor condo with no problem at all and best price so far in my condo. The problem is everyone themselves not pantang but think every one else pantang, but the fact is, there are lots of people who do not mind the 4 or 14 floor. Whatever it is, 4th floor is better than stack 4. If you unit says #04-03. I don't see anything wrong with it :) But if superstitious every scared 4th floor then go buy 8 huat huat lah - but look at 1998 and 2008, where got huat?


I really do not know why people believe in feng shui and all the nonsense of 4 being a bad no. I have a fried who ws very sad when he got a car with registration no 4224 and one month later he was richer by 600k after betting big on the no (4D). After that he kept the car for 10 years.
If everyone hires a feng shui master and make sure his house has the best feng shui, then all Singaporeans will be millionaires, live till 100, etc. All thiese are gimmicks and the ones laughing the best are the Feng shui masters with the millions in their pockets.

Whe will Singaporeans every learn? They can be so smart but so silly when it comes to such superstitions.

4444
16-07-08, 13:50
If u r teochew, then 4 is good n lucky number

somemore 4 look like khiaw kar :D

Elden
16-07-08, 14:58
Morning sun is worse from my experience. The heat gets trapped in the morning and cannot escape in the afternoon. I've a top floor morning sun condo and feels like oven everyday. My afternoon sun one is better, sun only comes in from 4-5pm and dissipates immediately. Beautiful unblocked view should be more important.

Think different people have different preferences. :) We are out mostly to go to work in the morning. And if the morning sun wakes us up, that's a good thing (shouldn't sleep so long anyway).

Afternoon and evening is a time when we would likely be spending time in the house, so no direct sun then would be better.

In any case, units XX-#05 aren't directly facing the morning sun. Both blocks are slanted at an angle. So, our side (#XX-05) actually faces north. The side that gets hit by the morning sun is actually the master bedroom bathroom. We won't be spending a lot of time in the bathroom in the morning I am sure. :)

Elden
16-07-08, 15:08
Congrats to those who purchased clover. Im sure its a good investmentin in time to come. ready to flip? :scared-4:

We are buying it to stay actually. It would have to be making a whole lot of money for us to consider selling. We like the Bishan area. Clover is really nice especially because the coffee shops and market is right next door opposite. So, really very convenient. And the park is right next door too.

Its great for a family like ours. We have 2 kids, a dog, and an elderly staying with us. So, the big size of the units plus the proximity of the park, and the coffee shops and markets is very nice. Its also not near to a busy highway or major road, which would be really noisy!

Actually too near to an elevated MRT is fairly noisy too. MRT trains zip past every few minutes. So, there is a certain amount of noise pollution if you are very near to or facing an MRT track or station. :)

cl0ver
16-07-08, 15:10
there is no wrong or right. Everyone is born differently and have different likes and dislikes......
anyway, block 2 still have units available and my agent told me facing city or bishan north shopping centre appears to be going fast....
that means the one behind facing park and block 6 still have units !

and someone is correct, its not facing directly block 6, the angle is created to face the park.... and it will be breezy because both blocks are so far away....

unre
16-07-08, 15:15
We are buying it to stay actually. It would have to be making a whole lot of money for us to consider selling. We like the Bishan area. Clover is really nice especially because the coffee shops and market is right next door opposite. So, really very convenient. And the park is right next door too.

Its great for a family like ours. We have 2 kids, a dog, and an elderly staying with us. So, the big size of the units plus the proximity of the park, and the coffee shops and markets is very nice. Its also not near to a busy highway or major road, which would be really noisy!

Actually too near to an elevated MRT is fairly noisy too. MRT trains zip past every few minutes. So, there is a certain amount of noise pollution if you are very near to or facing an MRT track or station. :)

yeah, the chicken wings at the KPT is good.... and also the hokkien mee... and midnight kway chap.....
there's also eateries at the Asian Golf Academy and 3 restaurants in Bishan Park itself....
Not to mentioned wet markets, POSB, clinics, sundry shopts, Shop N Save...
very convenient indeed....
and just 2 bus stops to Junction 8.
few bus rides to Upp Thomson Road where u have Thomson plaza and the many eateries there too....
heard Upp Thomson is the new Holland V....

Elden
16-07-08, 15:18
Actually, I think initially, people go for the park facing because they had paintings and such about the upcoming river project, so it seems nice. But think about it. The city view from the top floors like 30th floor and above are going to be pretty awesome too.

The surrounding flats are all up to 10 or 12th floor at most. Most of Bishan HDB estate is around 16th floor max. If you are 20th floor and above, I think you would be able to see really really far!

And since the road near block 2 is not really a super busy road, I don't think the noise pollution from it would be very bad. Besides, a view isn't everything. Some people aren't really into nice or long views. I mean, they may not be the type that likes to go and sit in the balcony sipping a drink and enjoying the sunset. :)

Elden
16-07-08, 15:21
yeah, the chicken wings at the KPT is good.... and also the hokkien mee... and midnight kway chap.....
there's also eateries at the Asian Golf Academy and 3 restaurants in Bishan Park itself....
Not to mentioned wet markets, POSB, clinics, sundry shopts, Shop N Save...
very convenient indeed....
and just 2 bus stops to Junction 8.
few bus rides to Upp Thomson Road where u have Thomson plaza and the many eateries there too....
heard Upp Thomson is the new Holland V....

Hmmm, I am going to have to do more research! hee. :) My wife stayed in Bishan, but it was another part, so we didn't frequent this area much to eat although we liked it a lot when we visited it. Sounds like a lot of nice food nearby! :)

cl0ver
16-07-08, 15:25
its the price.... low floor parkview cost $690 which is damn affordable...
if u go up 30th floor, it cost much much more....
also i wanted the corner 3 bedder not 4 bedder which goes from 14th up...
dont like the design of the smaller 3 bedders.... no walk in balcony and small yard behind kitchen....

so its just a preference..... but which ever we choose.... i guess the choice is a good one compared to other projects now in the market...
thats why clover has the highest take up rate so far.

well done to all who bought....!

clovere
16-07-08, 16:02
Hmmm, I am going to have to do more research! hee. :) My wife stayed in Bishan, but it was another part, so we didn't frequent this area much to eat although we liked it a lot when we visited it. Sounds like a lot of nice food nearby! :)

its a nice place to live. I used to live in Bishan Park Condo which is near the Gardens @ Bishan for 5 yrs. At that time, Gardens was not even constructed.
Taking bus 410 which is a shuttle to MRT is a hassle because waiting and journey takes 20-25 mins and then a further 17 mins to CBD via MRT.
Funny thing is while in the bus, when it stops at Bishan North Shopping centre which doesnt justify the name "shopping centre" at all! i used to say to myself, how nice if i lived there... then its just 2 more stops to MRT...
hahahhahaha
and now i will have that dream!

interestingly, the 410 shuttle has 2 loops, one goes clockwise and the other anti clockwise, so it depends where you want to go....

and if u explore more, u can walk thru the park to AMK Ave 1 and u will also find some nice eateries there....
further down the road is the popular crab noodles place called MeiBan....
so, everything is close proximity...

and further down to old upp thomson, there is the famouse casurina curry house on one corner... and really cheap seafood at the other end... that does good chilli crab!

anyone has any other hidden foodies?

Cloved
16-07-08, 17:37
well done to all who bought....!

Pat on your own back..... well done....

Clover King
16-07-08, 20:57
Aiyah....never realise that in the 21st Century still got ppl so pantang one. We are living in an era that is so advance with technology and creativity, why spend so much unnecessary time arguing about what no is auspicious and whats not. The day you are born, your destiny and fate are already pre-destined. If you are meant to be rich, you will naturally be but if you are to suffer in poverty, then so be it. We have to accept lives as it is gifted to us by the good lord upstair. To go thru poverty could be a blessing for your next generation and could also be a test bythe good Lord upstair. Ever heard of the old cliche "taste bitterness before enjoying sweetness".

As long as your conscience are clear and you lead a life that is devoid of evil and harm to others, you will be rewarded in life eventually, if not your next generation will benefit from it. Remember

What yours are yours no matter what you do, whats not yours, no matter how much you force, will never be yours........................Be Happy since all of you already are proud owners of one of the best design and probably amongst the highest apartment in Singapore......Hip Hip Clover

noblebaby
16-07-08, 21:28
All units for 2 towers launch already?

Unregistered101
16-07-08, 21:33
Morning sun is worse from my experience. The heat gets trapped in the morning and cannot escape in the afternoon. I've a top floor morning sun condo and feels like oven everyday. My afternoon sun one is better, sun only comes in from 4-5pm and dissipates immediately. Beautiful unblocked view should be more important.

First time hearing morning sun is worst.....and afternoon sun dissipates after 5pm? reverse logic or u use backside to think??
Simple minded will rationale that u won't affect by morning sun cos already out for work....and heat will trapped on your house's wall after sunset and u will be at home during that time...oven effect will kick in...come on..its COMMON SENSE..........SIGH....

Scientific
16-07-08, 21:36
That is not true. Heat dissipates very fast at night. But for morning sun, the heat that is accumulated in the morning cannot dissipate in the afternoon. It remains. The house remains very very hot in the afternoon after the ovening effect in the morning. So the whole day is very hot. Try buying a morning sun unit. It is horrible! Did you fail your science on heat dissipation? It's not common sense. It is real Science!


First time hearing morning sun is worst.....and afternoon sun dissipates after 5pm? reverse logic or u use backside to think??
Simple minded will rationale that u won't affect by morning sun cos already out for work....and heat will trapped on your house's wall after sunset and u will be at home during that time...oven effect will kick in...come on..its COMMON SENSE..........SIGH....

Superstitious Clover
16-07-08, 21:40
From the looks of it, a lot of Clover buyers are HDB upgrader, China PR who are likely to be Taoist and therefore subscribe to superstition. Many of the posts in Clover in particular avoid "4" at all cost. These are the people who cannot sleep well and think some bad things will happen to them if they kena a number 4 in their life - be it handphone number, or the floor or the district no. etc..


Aiyah....never realise that in the 21st Century still got ppl so pantang one. We are living in an era that is so advance with technology and creativity, why spend so much unnecessary time arguing about what no is auspicious and whats not. The day you are born, your destiny and fate are already pre-destined. If you are meant to be rich, you will naturally be but if you are to suffer in poverty, then so be it. We have to accept lives as it is gifted to us by the good lord upstair. To go thru poverty could be a blessing for your next generation and could also be a test bythe good Lord upstair. Ever heard of the old cliche "taste bitterness before enjoying sweetness".

As long as your conscience are clear and you lead a life that is devoid of evil and harm to others, you will be rewarded in life eventually, if not your next generation will benefit from it. Remember

What yours are yours no matter what you do, whats not yours, no matter how much you force, will never be yours........................Be Happy since all of you already are proud owners of one of the best design and probably amongst the highest apartment in Singapore......Hip Hip Clover

Aiya
16-07-08, 21:56
From the looks of it, a lot of Clover buyers are HDB upgrader, China PR who are likely to be Taoist and therefore subscribe to superstition. Many of the posts in Clover in particular avoid "4" at all cost. These are the people who cannot sleep well and think some bad things will happen to them if they kena a number 4 in their life - be it handphone number, or the floor or the district no. etc..

Obvious... prob most buyers already stay in Bishan.

Also... most wldn;t be affected by what u say. Cos.. if they're willing to buy to a piece of their home on a ex cementary....why wld they be bothered by it????

CloverBuyer
16-07-08, 21:58
From the looks of it, a lot of Clover buyers are HDB upgrader, China PR who are likely to be Taoist and therefore subscribe to superstition. Many of the posts in Clover in particular avoid "4" at all cost. These are the people who cannot sleep well and think some bad things will happen to them if they kena a number 4 in their life - be it handphone number, or the floor or the district no. etc..
You can make a survey here, how many are China PR?
For one, I am not.

Looks like this forum do generate of a number of good discussion. Keep updating.....

China PR
16-07-08, 22:00
from my agent source.. there were 15 China PR buyers... mostly families..

Superstition
16-07-08, 22:29
actually, i dont know why the conversation suddenly got off topic on superstition???

The point made was if parkview units were left with just 3rd and 4th floor with both having nice view of the topography... most ppl would have chosen 3rd because its cheaper and some old fashion thinking that 4 is not a good number.

im not saying that ppl will avoid 4 at all cost.....
its highly undoubtly that if you go on the first day, that if you have a choice to buy from 1st floor up till 8th floor that your first choice would be 4th floor rite?

if you go on second day and just 4th floor parkview left, it would be snapped up just like the whole stack of 14 is gone in a week!

home-run
16-07-08, 22:32
Hi all clover fans,

latest updates on clover!!!
HOT from the Oven!!! :scared-1:

I've one unit facing bishan park view that has just become avail.
The unit is abv 30th floor stack 15.
U can get a very gd reservoir view and unblocked bishan view.

Price is : 1.057 mil.

All units facing Bishan park is sold out!!!
So don't wait too long...this might most prob be the last unit left...

Call me @ 81835132 for more details.
Bring cheque, be fast..don't miss out on this choice unit!!!

Wilson Orangetee

Unregistered101
16-07-08, 22:56
That is not true. Heat dissipates very fast at night. But for morning sun, the heat that is accumulated in the morning cannot dissipate in the afternoon. It remains. The house remains very very hot in the afternoon after the ovening effect in the morning. So the whole day is very hot. Try buying a morning sun unit. It is horrible! Did you fail your science on heat dissipation? It's not common sense. It is real Science!

Another uncommon sense talking about science...do u know hot air rises? morning sun effect would be gone by the time u reach home in the evening due to natural convection. Try touching the wall (those facing west) in your house in the evening and u will understand. This is Basic heat transfer theory. Don't think so u can understand....and only a bunch like u would appreciate afternoon sun whereas most of normal human being would try to avoid it....cheers.

i luv colver
16-07-08, 22:59
Anyone bought a unit in the stack #05 like we did? We actually preferred block 2 (the block closer to the road), because we didn't want to walk too far a distance to get out of the condo. Plus, while we were there during the 1st launch of block 6, we weren't ready to commit yet at that time.

We only came back early during the second launch to commit and by then most of the best units in block 6 were taken already. The facing was very important to us also.

#05 faces towards the park as well, and it is only partially blocked by block 6. (both blocks are tilted slightly so they are not directly facing one another). We liked #05 because it would get mainly just some of the morning sun (which is fine) and it is shielded from the afternoon/evening sun. :)

Hey...we shared the same sentiment....me too on stack 5...cheers

Elden
16-07-08, 23:01
Doesn't really matter about the morning sun or afternoon sun lah. None of the units face east or west. All of them face either north or south. Its just for the corner units, their master bedroom toilet will get the either morning or afternoon sun.

So, the bathroom acts as a buffer between your master bedroom and the morning/evening sun.

I think in general, they were quite smart about the facing. Both blocks are tiled in such a way that Blk 2 doesn't face Blk 6 directly and still gets a good park view. Plus the angle also ensures that no unit gets hit directly by the morning or afternoon sun! (only the sides get hit, and surely its better that the sides get hit rather than the balcony+bedrooms!) :)

Elden
16-07-08, 23:04
Hey...we shared the same sentiment....me too on stack 5...cheers

Hi ^5 !!! :cheers3:

Sunshine is good!
16-07-08, 23:09
Hey there, neutral person. Think you don't understand previous forummer.

On weekdays
If you only come home at night. Then it doesn't matter whether morning or afternoon sun. The heat will dissipate at night, exp when your condo has a lot of glass. But for morning sun, it comes in very early at 7am. This means overnight you have to draw the curtains and cannot enjoy the stars. Also, you won't enjoy the few hours of breakfast time in nice scenery because you willl be forced to draw the curtains in the morning. Morning time is usually very nice IMHO.

On weekends
Assuming if you're at home the whole day, the morning sun is definitely worse, as explained earlier by another forummer. This is because the heat comes in early in the morning and will remain there until late afternoon. This is because the heat in afternoon continues to accumulate and the morning heat cannot escape because temperature still remains high in the day. So from 7am until 6pm, it shall be hot. Tried and tested. On the other hand, if you have an afternoon sun unit, you have the whole of 7am to 3pm that is actually still cooling, and the sun only comes in maybe from 4pm to 6pm, which is only 2 hours of heat. This heat actually goes off very quickly at night, as night time temperature is much lower.

So comparing morning and afternoon sun, I also will go for the latter too. To each his own. It's quite old thinking to be so afraid of the sun though. And if its cheaper it is a bonus. Cheers!


Another uncommon sense talking about science...do u know hot air rises? morning sun effect would be gone by the time u reach home in the evening due to natural convection. Try touching the wall (those facing west) in your house in the evening and u will understand. This is Basic heat transfer theory. Don't think so u can understand....and only a bunch like u would appreciate afternoon sun whereas most of normal human being would try to avoid it....cheers.

noblebaby
16-07-08, 23:27
Doesn't really matter about the morning sun or afternoon sun lah. None of the units face east or west. All of them face either north or south. Its just for the corner units, their master bedroom toilet will get the either morning or afternoon sun.

So, the bathroom acts as a buffer between your master bedroom and the morning/evening sun.

I think in general, they were quite smart about the facing. Both blocks are tiled in such a way that Blk 2 doesn't face Blk 6 directly and still gets a good park view. Plus the angle also ensures that no unit gets hit directly by the morning or afternoon sun! (only the sides get hit, and surely its better that the sides get hit rather than the balcony+bedrooms!) :)

The developer very care of feng shu actually! North - south is actually the best position, dont care about afternoon or morning sun!

If your main door is facing the south, then it's the best!

noblebaby
16-07-08, 23:30
Is those unit facing the park, with the main entrance facing the south position?

main entrance facing south is the best feng sui position.

Elden
16-07-08, 23:34
Cool! Mine is stack #05, park facing. So my main door faces south! :)

Unregisteredstack3/4
16-07-08, 23:35
hi guys! anyone getting a unit in stack 3 and 4? Any comments on its orientation. Personally I think the morning sun could be block by Block 6 (the one nearer to the park) and also there should be no evening sun.

Curious
16-07-08, 23:39
Don't you think the swimming pool shared by 616 household is too much??? feel like public pool????

Owner88
16-07-08, 23:44
Don't you think the swimming pool shared by 616 household is too much??? feel like public pool????

Yes...... everything need to queue in advance... tennis courts... barbacue pit.

Cannot have cake and eat it at the same time... we are paying quite cheap for the location.

Come to think abt it... will be quite cramp.... 616 x 4 (assuming 4 per household) ~2400.

Assuming 10% swim during weekend.... we are looking ~200 residents !!! at the pool!!!

Curious
16-07-08, 23:50
wow! the crowd is worse than a public pool,not forgetting that it is smaller! If I use the power of reasoning, it really doesn't make sense to buy a condo at the first place. Spend $$$$$ but get back so little. No offence!

Dun worry
16-07-08, 23:53
Don't worry. My condo in the central area has 300+ units. The pool always quite empty and at night can have the whole pool by yourself! The facilities are underutlitised. Evening time got ang moh expats just sun tan in their bikinis but they don't usually swim. As for tennis courts, they're even more underutilised.... So as long as your pool is big, it should be okay :)


Don't you think the swimming pool shared by 616 household is too much??? feel like public pool????

Newbie
17-07-08, 00:02
did you guys do complete finance check first before commiting or just bite the bullet ....??? Newbie in property and view the project ... like it very very much .... simply on everything even neighbourhood. Looking at stack 3 or 4 too, any comments on these 2 stacks? Help !!!!!

Elden
17-07-08, 00:09
Err, yeah sure have to do finance check mah. If not enough money to buy, how can anyhow just sign the cheque? For me though, yeah it felt a bit like biting the bullet. 4 bedder even at $730 psf adds up to a lot! But still a lot better than the original $790 or $800 psf that we were told about during the pre-launch invitational.

I think #03 or #04 not bad also, is a park view. Plus definitely no morning or afternoon sun cos all blocked by stack #02 and #05.

Lower floor, you will get a better view of the landscape garden, the fountain. Higher floor is better view of the park lor. Then highest floors can see Johor already lol.

Come to think of it , above 33 storeys is really very high up. 100m high! Almost like Bukit Timah hill, lol :) Ok I check wiki, Bukit TImah Hill is 164m. So, the highest floors will be quite close to that. (assuming the ceiling is 3m high).

home-run
17-07-08, 00:12
hi there, u can talk to any banker to assess ur financial ability to own a unit in clover. the rates are incredibly competitive...esp from hsbc and std chart...
anyways, between stack 3 and 4...i'll go for stack 3 cuz u get to see a distant park view but also the water features within the condo itself. Stack 4 will be a bit blocked in terms of park view...

Jus my 2 cents worth.
Any qn with rgds to clover, can email me @ [email protected] =) cheers :cheers6: congrats to all happy clover owners

curious
17-07-08, 00:22
yes ... discuss with banker too ... but only advise on their package and mthly instal amount. Nothing to simulate together with our financial status like CPF... yeh, a bit too kaisu ... so still comtemplating whether should bite the bullet or not ....sigh.

Anyone knows whether stack 3 low floor still available?

noblebaby
17-07-08, 00:24
hi there, u can talk to any banker to assess ur financial ability to own a unit in clover. the rates are incredibly competitive...esp from hsbc and std chart...
anyways, between stack 3 and 4...i'll go for stack 3 cuz u get to see a distant park view but also the water features within the condo itself. Stack 4 will be a bit blocked in terms of park view...

Jus my 2 cents worth.
Any qn with rgds to clover, can email me @ [email protected] (http://forums.condosingapore.com/) =) cheers :cheers6: congrats to all happy clover owners

normally what is the minimal total income in order to afford one unit at clover? Is $10K+ total monthly income enough?

Elden
17-07-08, 06:27
10k+ monthly should be fine. Depends on what type of unit you are going for as well. Penthouses and suits are going to be a lot more ex and I wouldn't buy those with a combined 10k+ income.

Actually, a lot depends on you. If you earn 20k, but spend 15k a month, then you won't be able to afford it. The bank agents will tell you how much you need each month in housing instalment payments.

Got different type of plans also. So, you can shop around a bit first before you decide on which bank you want to go with.

Clover is quite affordable though. especially the lower floors which are going for a lower psf. :) View not as good of course. I wonder what the view from the penthouse would be like. hee. Must be breath taking!

Buyer88
17-07-08, 06:46
10k+ monthly should be fine. Depends on what type of unit you are going for as well. Penthouses and suits are going to be a lot more ex and I wouldn't buy those with a combined 10k+ income.

Actually, a lot depends on you. If you earn 20k, but spend 15k a month, then you won't be able to afford it. The bank agents will tell you how much you need each month in housing instalment payments.

Got different type of plans also. So, you can shop around a bit first before you decide on which bank you want to go with.

Clover is quite affordable though. especially the lower floors which are going for a lower psf. :) View not as good of course. I wonder what the view from the penthouse would be like. hee. Must be breath taking!

My wife and I combined already more than 20K a month... yet I find it "siong" to service.... for the larger units ...assuming you take a $1m loan... the monthly servicing is almost 4.5K to 5K using cash (since my current property is using CPF), depending on interest rate. Monthly car maintenance will be almost 2.5K considering installment, petrol, ERP, carpark etc. Childcare another 2.5K.

End of the day.... can service... but leaving little for savings.

cheaplah
17-07-08, 07:31
wow! the crowd is worse than a public pool,not forgetting that it is smaller! If I use the power of reasoning, it really doesn't make sense to buy a condo at the first place. Spend $$$$$ but get back so little. No offence!

do you know what the maintenance is? my unit is just slightly under 1600sqft and the mainenance is $165 !
HDB charges $90 for carpark and $67 for conservancy.... so thats $157 without any facilities....

now u get security and pool and gym...
for a 50m lap pool, i think its ok.... seems quite wide.....
and landscaping is big so i doubt it will be crowded compared to other mass market projects....

noblebaby
17-07-08, 08:20
My wife and I combined already more than 20K a month... yet I find it "siong" to service.... for the larger units ...assuming you take a $1m loan... the monthly servicing is almost 4.5K to 5K using cash (since my current property is using CPF), depending on interest rate. Monthly car maintenance will be almost 2.5K considering installment, petrol, ERP, carpark etc. Childcare another 2.5K.

End of the day.... can service... but leaving little for savings.

Wow, $1m loan, that's a lot! Only think to buy a normal 3 bedder, loan of $600k and serve for 20 years!

currently combined income of $10K+, no car and no children yet. monthly saving is more than 65% at the moment.

one more thing, both of us only at the age of 27-28, if after several years more of working, i think we should feel more confortable on the loan.

one more thing, my partner is working in the bank, so got discount for the bank loan interest.

Condo owner
17-07-08, 08:52
Wow, $1m loan, that's a lot! Only think to buy a normal 3 bedder, loan of $600k and serve for 20 years!

currently combined income of $10K+, no car and no children yet. monthly saving is more than 65% at the moment.

one more thing, both of us only at the age of 27-28, if after several years more of working, i think we should feel more confortable on the loan.

one more thing, my partner is working in the bank, so got discount for the bank loan interest.


For me, my current loan is less than 500K. Will be topping up with another 300K from CPF to try to make the loan to be below 200K. That works out to be slightly above 1K on a 20 years loan tenure. Not too much and will be pretty relax.

But I got another condo not yet TOP. Potential loan is also around 500K. With no CPF topup to bring down the loan, the mthly works out to be above 2.5K. Hope I can use my rental to cover the loan as the TOP of this condo will be end of 2010. With the two IRs on line, hope the rental market will be good by then...

SIBOR
17-07-08, 09:38
The current SIBOR is low, so if u take the package Sibor+0.7 you are only servicing 2% p.a.
I think if you have spare cash, you can make it work harder to offset the interests.
Thats why i prefer to invest myself rather than buy unit trusts or give to fundmanager....
Some stocks looks cheap now, so pick the good ones with high dividend yield and you should get better returns...

The best is of coz bank staff rates. I heard DBS staff pay 1% only and Stanchart staff pay SIBID which is currently 1.18%

so, its not about the amount of loan you take. Sometimes its leverage.
try not to commit all your cash to take a lower loan. Imagine CPF can still earn 3.5% while loan only currently cost you 2%.
So, if i were you, i will leave it in CPF and do partial repayment later when SIBOR rises.....

condo owner
17-07-08, 10:01
The current SIBOR is low, so if u take the package Sibor+0.7 you are only servicing 2% p.a.
I think if you have spare cash, you can make it work harder to offset the interests.
Thats why i prefer to invest myself rather than buy unit trusts or give to fundmanager....
Some stocks looks cheap now, so pick the good ones with high dividend yield and you should get better returns...

The best is of coz bank staff rates. I heard DBS staff pay 1% only and Stanchart staff pay SIBID which is currently 1.18%

so, its not about the amount of loan you take. Sometimes its leverage.
try not to commit all your cash to take a lower loan. Imagine CPF can still earn 3.5% while loan only currently cost you 2%.
So, if i were you, i will leave it in CPF and do partial repayment later when SIBOR rises.....

Hi Sibor,

Thanks for your advise. But I really had phobia doing stocks and unit trust investment. Too afraid to look at my paper loss now. So that is why I am thinking of leaving low cash in my CPF and use the amount to lower the loan. Sometime you know, leaving CPF with some money will make you tempting to commit in more investments. (Can be bad at times)

bb123
17-07-08, 10:18
The current SIBOR is low, so if u take the package Sibor+0.7 you are only servicing 2% p.a.
I think if you have spare cash, you can make it work harder to offset the interests.
Thats why i prefer to invest myself rather than buy unit trusts or give to fundmanager....
Some stocks looks cheap now, so pick the good ones with high dividend yield and you should get better returns...

The best is of coz bank staff rates. I heard DBS staff pay 1% only and Stanchart staff pay SIBID which is currently 1.18%

so, its not about the amount of loan you take. Sometimes its leverage.
try not to commit all your cash to take a lower loan. Imagine CPF can still earn 3.5% while loan only currently cost you 2%.
So, if i were you, i will leave it in CPF and do partial repayment later when SIBOR rises.....

you are right, my partner is working with DBS. Their staff rate is 1% below SIBOR or the minimum interest rate is 1%.

jacuzzi
17-07-08, 11:49
wow! the crowd is worse than a public pool,not forgetting that it is smaller! If I use the power of reasoning, it really doesn't make sense to buy a condo at the first place. Spend $$$$$ but get back so little. No offence!

if pool is crowded, go back up to your room and enjoy the bathtub with jacuzzi!!

stamp
17-07-08, 12:23
any stamp duty rebate from developer?

no-stamp
17-07-08, 12:24
any stamp duty rebate from developer?

i dont think so
its 3% of purchase price less $5400

Unregistered guy
17-07-08, 17:50
i wonder how much is the penthouse? Any available? Hopefully can make it to showflat when i'm back in town.

We are looking to get either a landed or penthouse in D20. But our agent is telling us 'wait and see' saying that property might slowed down further in the next 1-2 yrs.

Unregistered1111111
17-07-08, 18:02
i wonder how much is the penthouse? Any available? Hopefully can make it to showflat when i'm back in town.

We are looking to get either a landed or penthouse in D20. But our agent is telling us 'wait and see' saying that property might slowed down further in the next 1-2 yrs.

i'm also wait n see. hope next year can get a cheaper one.

penthouse
17-07-08, 18:18
There are 2 types of penthouse....
38th floor which is horizontal penthouse... means it occupies 2 stacks that gives you 6 bedrooms!!
and the other is the 39th + 40th floor which is the vertical penthouse..

sadly, all sold out during first day i believe.....