View Full Version : SLA to take over land at Lorong 3 Geylang when lease expires in 2020
Every owner of the affected 191 terrace houses will be assigned a SLA officer, who will guide them through the lease expiry process.
SINGAPORE: The land currently occupied by 191 private terrace houses at Lorong 3 Geylang will return to the state when its current lease expires on Dec 31, 2020, the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) confirmed for the first time on Tuesday (Jun 20).
The land is slated for future public housing, the authority said in a news release.
"As a general policy, leasehold land will return to the state upon lease expiry. This allows the land to be rejuvenated to meet the new social and economic needs of Singaporeans," the SLA said.
The houses along the street are on 60-year leases that started in 1961. When the leases run out, owners have to make sure the properties are cleared of all belongings and furniture, utilities and services are terminated and all outstanding bills are paid.
They do not need to demolish or do any works to reinstate the property, the agency clarified.
OWNERS "WILL NOT BE LEFT WITHOUT OPTIONS"
According to SLA, most of the current owners of the terrace houses have moved out and are letting out their units to foreign workers and other occupants who use them for religious activities.
Of the 191 houses, 143 have been leased to foreign workers on work passes and 31 to those conducting religious activities such as temple operators, while 33 are owner occupants, SLA said. It added that some of the homes are counted twice as they have multiple uses.
To assist in the transition, a dedicated SLA officer will be assigned to each house owner, who will guide them through the lease expiry process over the next three and a half years. Those who do not already have alternative housing have various options, including buying an HDB flat or private property, renting on the open market or living with family members.
SLA added there are existing schemes for elderly homeowners, such as the short-lease 2-Room Flexi flats.
"They will not be left without options," the agency said.
As for employers of foreign work pass holders, these owners can consider relocating their workers to other approved housing such as purpose-built dormitories. The Manpower Ministry will remind employers to relocate their workers closer to the lease expiry date, the agency said.
Occupants currently conducting religious activities in houses on the affected street can consider co-locating with religious organisations operating in other areas or renting space from commercial or industrial premises where part of the space is allowed to be used for religious purposes, SLA added.
DO DUE DILIGENCE WHEN HOUSE HUNTING
While the SLA announcement on Tuesday refers to private housing, National Development Minister Lawrence Wong had in March also said that when leases for Housing and Development Board flats end, the land will return to the state eventually.
He said property buyers need to recognise the Selective En bloc Redevelopment Scheme (SERS) is not necessarily for all old HDB flats, as it is dependent on the site's redevelopment potential, and prices for these flats will come down in conjunction with the remaining time on the lease.
Mr Wong's comments were in response to local reports highlighting the high prices of several short-lease HDB flats in the resale market.
NEW HOUSING OPTIONS PLANNED
The 2-ha plot of land in Geylang has been earmarked for new public housing development, and is also part of a larger plan to rejuvenate Kallang, SLA said.
The land, about 900m from Kallang MRT and 500m from the new Geylang Bahru MRT set to open in October this year, will offer Singaporeans new public housing options near the city centre in Kallang, the agency noted.
These are in addition to the new public housing developments in Boon Keng, Bendemeer and around Kallang MRT station, as well as new private residences in Kampong Bugis, SLA pointed out.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sla-to-take-over-land-at-lorong-3-geylang-when-lease-expires-in-8961090
This is the FACT that most 99-years leasehold properties will end with ZERO $ value!
Hope those people will stop fooling people that 99-years leasehold properties and freehold properties have no difference in value.............. :moon:
Every owner of the affected 191 terrace houses will be assigned a SLA officer, who will guide them through the lease expiry process.
SINGAPORE: The land currently occupied by 191 private terrace houses at Lorong 3 Geylang will return to the state when its current lease expires on Dec 31, 2020, the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) confirmed for the first time on Tuesday (Jun 20).
The land is slated for future public housing, the authority said in a news release.
"As a general policy, leasehold land will return to the state upon lease expiry. This allows the land to be rejuvenated to meet the new social and economic needs of Singaporeans," the SLA said.
The houses along the street are on 60-year leases that started in 1961. When the leases run out, owners have to make sure the properties are cleared of all belongings and furniture, utilities and services are terminated and all outstanding bills are paid.
They do not need to demolish or do any works to reinstate the property, the agency clarified.
OWNERS "WILL NOT BE LEFT WITHOUT OPTIONS"
According to SLA, most of the current owners of the terrace houses have moved out and are letting out their units to foreign workers and other occupants who use them for religious activities.
Of the 191 houses, 143 have been leased to foreign workers on work passes and 31 to those conducting religious activities such as temple operators, while 33 are owner occupants, SLA said. It added that some of the homes are counted twice as they have multiple uses.
To assist in the transition, a dedicated SLA officer will be assigned to each house owner, who will guide them through the lease expiry process over the next three and a half years. Those who do not already have alternative housing have various options, including buying an HDB flat or private property, renting on the open market or living with family members.
SLA added there are existing schemes for elderly homeowners, such as the short-lease 2-Room Flexi flats.
"They will not be left without options," the agency said.
As for employers of foreign work pass holders, these owners can consider relocating their workers to other approved housing such as purpose-built dormitories. The Manpower Ministry will remind employers to relocate their workers closer to the lease expiry date, the agency said.
Occupants currently conducting religious activities in houses on the affected street can consider co-locating with religious organisations operating in other areas or renting space from commercial or industrial premises where part of the space is allowed to be used for religious purposes, SLA added.
DO DUE DILIGENCE WHEN HOUSE HUNTING
While the SLA announcement on Tuesday refers to private housing, National Development Minister Lawrence Wong had in March also said that when leases for Housing and Development Board flats end, the land will return to the state eventually.
He said property buyers need to recognise the Selective En bloc Redevelopment Scheme (SERS) is not necessarily for all old HDB flats, as it is dependent on the site's redevelopment potential, and prices for these flats will come down in conjunction with the remaining time on the lease.
Mr Wong's comments were in response to local reports highlighting the high prices of several short-lease HDB flats in the resale market.
NEW HOUSING OPTIONS PLANNED
The 2-ha plot of land in Geylang has been earmarked for new public housing development, and is also part of a larger plan to rejuvenate Kallang, SLA said.
The land, about 900m from Kallang MRT and 500m from the new Geylang Bahru MRT set to open in October this year, will offer Singaporeans new public housing options near the city centre in Kallang, the agency noted.
These are in addition to the new public housing developments in Boon Keng, Bendemeer and around Kallang MRT station, as well as new private residences in Kampong Bugis, SLA pointed out.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sla-to-take-over-land-at-lorong-3-geylang-when-lease-expires-in-8961090
Amber Woods
20-06-17, 20:47
Having this set as a precedent, we should start to see prices of aging HDB flats coming down fast. This will affect the entire resale market both public and private.
Having this set as a precedent, we should start to see prices of aging HDB flats coming down fast. This will affect the entire resale market both public and private.
Don't know how to Agree.
Let use something I have.
https://www.srx.com.sg/hdb/geylang/balam-road-hsbal0001/370027
Registration date Price Location Built Storey Size HDB Model
Jul 16 $620K Blk 27, Balam Rd 1997 13-15 126 sqm 5I
Lease Start Date Price Location Built HDB Model
Apr 17 $2,700 Blk 27, Balam Road 1997 5RM
How much do you think it will drop.
It's the same as saying yesterday somebody struck Toto, so on Thursday it will be my turn, and it will be everybody's turn!
Or yesterday a building caught fire, so today more buildings will catch fire, and therefore tomorrow all buildings will catch fire.
Having this set as a precedent, we should start to see prices of aging HDB flats coming down fast. This will affect the entire resale market both public and private.
This is the FACT that most 99-years leasehold properties will end with ZERO $ value!
Hope those people will stop fooling people that 99-years leasehold properties and freehold properties have no difference in value.............. :moon:
All cars have a lifespan especially in Singapore, but that does not stop them from presenting value as long as their lease is still sufficiently long. Even short lifespan also has small value to be derived. 3 years lease has 3 years' rent worth!
Amber Woods
21-06-17, 10:32
Don't know how to Agree.
Let use something I have.
https://www.srx.com.sg/hdb/geylang/balam-road-hsbal0001/370027
Registration date Price Location Built Storey Size HDB Model
Jul 16 $620K Blk 27, Balam Rd 1997 13-15 126 sqm 5I
Lease Start Date Price Location Built HDB Model
Apr 17 $2,700 Blk 27, Balam Road 1997 5RM
How much do you think it will drop.
Why quote historical data?
I said going forward, prices for aging flats will decline fast. So be patient and look at future transactions and the price trend over the next 2 years.
Flat prices have stagnated and/or dropped for about 4 years already.
HDB Rental has recently started to recover.
As long as people can derive value whether own stay or rent out, it is very unlikely to see the situation of "decline fast", especially since some of these ageing flats offer abundance of space.
Why quote historical data?
I said going forward, prices for aging flats will decline fast. So be patient and look at future transactions and the price trend over the next 2 years.
Amber Woods
21-06-17, 10:54
Flat prices have stagnated and/or dropped for about 4 years already.
HDB Rental has recently started to recover.
As long as people can derive value whether own stay or rent out, it is very unlikely to see the situation of "decline fast", especially since some of these ageing flats offer abundance of space.
We can revisit the our predictions two years later.
Why quote historical data?
I said going forward, prices for aging flats will decline fast. So be patient and look at future transactions and the price trend over the next 2 years.
This will be the reference point to your price drop according to your theory.
I think it will increase in the future due to inflation.
Amber Woods
21-06-17, 12:02
This will be the reference point to your price drop according to your theory.
I think it will increase in the future due to inflation.
Up or down will depend on the age of the flats transacted. So reference must be based on aging flat 40 years or older. That is flat with lease starting on or before 1977. Two years from now, more flats will reach 40 years and the prices should reflect the price base on its remaining lease.
30 years left more relevance. 40 years still can loan. As long as can loan, price will hardly move, especially since the size and location are often marvelous.
But even then, it's hard for prospective buyers to buy without loan. So end up they will look elsewhere so this has limited impact on the whole market.
Having this set as a precedent, we should start to see prices of aging HDB flats coming down fast. This will affect the entire resale market both public and private.
For 99yrs leasehold? Freehold holds well based on the above article then
Amber Woods
21-06-17, 12:49
For 99yrs leasehold? Freehold holds well based on the above article then
The public resale market will affect the private market.
Nobody in Singapore, yes "NOBODY", buy cars thinking that it is an appreciating asset!
Meanwhile, almost EVERYBODY buying 99-years leasehold properties DREAMING of property as APPRECIATING asset! (that is why never flip while new and end up with $0 value!)
All cars have a lifespan especially in Singapore, but that does not stop them from presenting value as long as their lease is still sufficiently long. Even short lifespan also has small value to be derived. 3 years lease has 3 years' rent worth!
Amber Woods
21-06-17, 12:50
30 years left more relevance. 40 years still can loan. As long as can loan, price will hardly move, especially since the size and location are often marvelous.
But even then, it's hard for prospective buyers to buy without loan. So end up they will look elsewhere so this has limited impact on the whole market.
Market forces will prevail.
If people are financially savy, they will know all COMPANIES use STRAIGHT-LINE DEPRECIATION to depreciate their leasehold assets.
Thus, they better think like COMPANIES and use STRAIGHT-LINE DEPRECIATION to value the 99-years leasehold properties they are going to buy! (because soon they will find NO buyers wanting to buy based on their desired selling price if they think they can sell at a price pegged to SLA 99-years leasehold depreciation guide (which is really kelong and for show only)!
30 years left more relevance. 40 years still can loan. As long as can loan, price will hardly move, especially since the size and location are often marvelous.
But even then, it's hard for prospective buyers to buy without loan. So end up they will look elsewhere so this has limited impact on the whole market.
This case relates to a large piece of land with only 191 units and 33 owner occupiers, so it is relatively easier for the SLA to deal with. It is also the first lease expiry without many other houses with lease expiring at the around same time. To me, this is a once off situation and is unlikely to set a precedent for later large scale HDB/Condo developments especially those built during and after the 1970s.
It is one thing to take back 191 units, but quite another to take back thousands of units in one year. For example, between 1974-1979, HDB built 23000 to 29000 flats per year. While I am not sure how many of those are still not enbloc, it will be a huge undertaking to relocate tens of thousands of households each year. Not to mention the social and political cost.
If your HDB has leases from 1974 onwards, I don't think you need to worry so much about it now. From now till 2073 when the lease expires, there is still another 56 years. And there will be thousands of households in the same boat as you.
However, if you have lease that are expiring before that and there are very few others in the same boat as you, then I suggest you exit as soon as you can.
If just taking back thousands of units in 1 year is a chore, then doing a SERS/enbloc thousands of units in 1 year is even WORST and think of the costs to the State coffer and Tax payers!
So, conclusion is that as the GOV stressed, SERS is only for "selected estates" and will not be repeated for all estates (since tax payers' money and the state's coffer should not be used to pay for people's folly!)
This case relates to a large piece of land with only 191 units and 33 owner occupiers, so it is relatively easier for the SLA to deal with. It is also the first lease expiry without many other houses with lease expiring at the around same time. To me, this is a once off situation and is unlikely to set a precedent for later large scale HDB/Condo developments especially those built during and after the 1970s.
It is one thing to take back 191 units, but quite another to take back thousands of units in one year. For example, between 1974-1979, HDB built 23000 to 29000 flats per year. While I am not sure how many of those are still not enbloc, it will be a huge undertaking to relocate tens of thousands of households each year. Not to mention the social and political cost.
Both taking back and doing SERS/enbloc of thousands of units are chores.
So what should the government do?
Both taking back and doing SERS/enbloc of thousands of units are chores.
So what should the government do?
No issue leh. Govt must continue to build year after year anyway, if not what is MND for?
https://mndsingapore.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/as-of-dec-16.jpg
Exactly right. No issues. Nothing to worry.
Don't know how to Agree.
Let use something I have.
https://www.srx.com.sg/hdb/geylang/balam-road-hsbal0001/370027
Registration date Price Location Built Storey Size HDB Model
Jul 16 $620K Blk 27, Balam Rd 1997 13-15 126 sqm 5I
Lease Start Date Price Location Built HDB Model
Apr 17 $2,700 Blk 27, Balam Road 1997 5RM
How much do you think it will drop.
Do you know why it is transacted at $620k today? No, it is due to not money printing, ahaha.
If not, then you are not able to know its projected price in 10 years time.
I will let you figure this out. As a property agent, surely you can calculate?
Do you know why it is transacted at $620k today? No, it is due to not money printing, ahaha.
If not, then you are not able to know its projected price in 10 years time.
I will let you figure this out. As a property agent, surely you can calculate?
Projected price will be 720K in 10 years time after collecting 2.8kx12x10 rental.
You are right, not due to money printing, it was selling for 390K in 2007 and now selling for 620K, SB was selling for 535K and now 1450K.
As a property agent now is unlike the good old days without CEA.
Projected price will be 720K in 10 years time after collecting 2.8kx12x10 rental.
You are right, not due to money printing, it was selling for 390K in 2007 and now selling for 620K, SB was selling for 535K and now 1450K.
As a property agent now is unlike the good old days without CEA.
But if you are able to show the calculation of how you arrive at $620 k based on the rental income, then you will know that the projected price in 10 years will be different.
Don't have to be precise, within 5% tolerance of $620 k is good enough.
Should be rental income + residual value of property (with inflation) at the end of 99 years (then you can compare properties with different remaining lease)
But if you are able to show the calculation of how you arrive at $620 k based on the rental income, then you will know that the projected price in 10 years will be different.
Don't have to be precise, within 5% tolerance of $620 k is good enough.
But if you are able to show the calculation of how you arrive at $620 k based on the rental income, then you will know that the projected price in 10 years will be different.
Don't have to be precise, within 5% tolerance of $620 k is good enough.
1. 5 room HDB with a floor area of 126sqm is LKY baby, now max only 105 sqm.
2. Singapore uses to zone and price from the CBD call inner urban, outer urban, inner suburban.... also no more now they call Mature and Non-Mature estate.
3. HDB use to control valuation of resale HDB now also no more.
4. To buy HDB you need to have enough income to get the big unit and income limit to get HDB.
5. HDB resale cannot rent out during MOP (5 years).
6. PR cannot buy resale within 3 years of getting PR and must sell when not in Singapore and when buy PC.
And many other factor which can only increase the selling price of HDB.
When they start selling HDB for 60 years lease, the resale can only get worst.
Should be rental income + residual value of property (with inflation) at the end of 99 years (then you can compare properties with different remaining lease)
Yes, the value of a property is a function of rental value and land value.
To price a property, it is a process of discovering its intrinsic value, “how much should a buyer pay for it?”.
How to know if the seller’s asking price is above its intrinsic value? How to know if the property underlying value is above the asking price, and therefore a bargain?
We are covering the topic of rental value, that is Income Method. Land value will be covered under Cost Method.
But these are not new inventions of Hakuho. Just google to find out.
If you are offer an opportunity to buy a business, these are basically the same methods used to price the business, to base on its income cash flow on one hand and its asset and liabilities on the other hand.
http://www.tablebuilder.singstat.gov.sg/publicfacing/createDataTable.action?refId=5398
584,997.4
This case is really a shake-up of Leasehold properties whether private or public. More test case to follow.
An article in todayonline said the original owner paid $5000 in1961 for this terrace house. Just unfortunate that their parents bought the wrong terrace house. They could have bought a FH landed in better area with the same $5000 and it would easily value at $2-3 million today. Hence, this is a lessen learnt to all LH landed property owners.
Every owner of the affected 191 terrace houses will be assigned a SLA officer, who will guide them through the lease expiry process.
SINGAPORE: The land currently occupied by 191 private terrace houses at Lorong 3 Geylang will return to the state when its current lease expires on Dec 31, 2020, the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) confirmed for the first time on Tuesday (Jun 20).
The land is slated for future public housing, the authority said in a news release.
"As a general policy, leasehold land will return to the state upon lease expiry. This allows the land to be rejuvenated to meet the new social and economic needs of Singaporeans," the SLA said.
The houses along the street are on 60-year leases that started in 1961. When the leases run out, owners have to make sure the properties are cleared of all belongings and furniture, utilities and services are terminated and all outstanding bills are paid.
They do not need to demolish or do any works to reinstate the property, the agency clarified.
OWNERS "WILL NOT BE LEFT WITHOUT OPTIONS"
According to SLA, most of the current owners of the terrace houses have moved out and are letting out their units to foreign workers and other occupants who use them for religious activities.
Of the 191 houses, 143 have been leased to foreign workers on work passes and 31 to those conducting religious activities such as temple operators, while 33 are owner occupants, SLA said. It added that some of the homes are counted twice as they have multiple uses.
To assist in the transition, a dedicated SLA officer will be assigned to each house owner, who will guide them through the lease expiry process over the next three and a half years. Those who do not already have alternative housing have various options, including buying an HDB flat or private property, renting on the open market or living with family members.
SLA added there are existing schemes for elderly homeowners, such as the short-lease 2-Room Flexi flats.
"They will not be left without options," the agency said.
As for employers of foreign work pass holders, these owners can consider relocating their workers to other approved housing such as purpose-built dormitories. The Manpower Ministry will remind employers to relocate their workers closer to the lease expiry date, the agency said.
Occupants currently conducting religious activities in houses on the affected street can consider co-locating with religious organisations operating in other areas or renting space from commercial or industrial premises where part of the space is allowed to be used for religious purposes, SLA added.
DO DUE DILIGENCE WHEN HOUSE HUNTING
While the SLA announcement on Tuesday refers to private housing, National Development Minister Lawrence Wong had in March also said that when leases for Housing and Development Board flats end, the land will return to the state eventually.
He said property buyers need to recognise the Selective En bloc Redevelopment Scheme (SERS) is not necessarily for all old HDB flats, as it is dependent on the site's redevelopment potential, and prices for these flats will come down in conjunction with the remaining time on the lease.
Mr Wong's comments were in response to local reports highlighting the high prices of several short-lease HDB flats in the resale market.
NEW HOUSING OPTIONS PLANNED
The 2-ha plot of land in Geylang has been earmarked for new public housing development, and is also part of a larger plan to rejuvenate Kallang, SLA said.
The land, about 900m from Kallang MRT and 500m from the new Geylang Bahru MRT set to open in October this year, will offer Singaporeans new public housing options near the city centre in Kallang, the agency noted.
These are in addition to the new public housing developments in Boon Keng, Bendemeer and around Kallang MRT station, as well as new private residences in Kampong Bugis, SLA pointed out.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sla-to-take-over-land-at-lorong-3-geylang-when-lease-expires-in-8961090
They bought the correct House, the problem is their software not updated.
They bought the WRONG house lah! Plain simple as that!
Warren Buffett said if you bought the right stock (just like buying the right property, like Freehold property in prime location), you do nothing for next 30 years and you still will still makes lots of money!
If you bought the wrong stock (like buying depreciating leasehold property (regardless of landed or non-landed like apartments, condos etc)), then you have to be like Soros know when to flip and sell quickly to the next greater fool.......
Then you have to ask yourself, are you as smart as Soros? Have you been making lots and lots of money from flipping stocks and forex etc? If you don't, what makes you think you can make money flipping property?
Anyway, Soros always buy at near cheapest price and sell near highest price!
So if you learn the lesson from Soros: Are you going to buy OCR private property at THOUSAND YEARS HISTORICAL PEAK PRICE or going to sell (so that you can make money)?
They bought the correct House, the problem is their software not updated.
An article in todayonline said the original owner paid $5000 in1961 for this terrace house. Just unfortunate that their parents bought the wrong terrace house. They could have bought a FH landed in better area with the same $5000 and it would easily value at $2-3 million today. Hence, this is a lessen learnt to all LH landed property owners.
Let me be the fool. Sell me for $5000 after depleted 57 years lease.
Don't think they will sell you also, since they count just like you and Archacon:
Rental per month $3000 x 36 months = $108,000 total rental!
So they would want to sell you $108,000 (because that is the rental stream they will get if they don't sell)!
:applouse:
May be they will sell you at $5000 from when they still have <1 year lease left?
Let me be the fool. Sell me for $5000 after depleted 57 years lease.
It's weird leh.
Bought at 5000, lived in it for 50+ years, left three years lease, but still valued at 100K, equating to approximately 6% compounded on 5000 for 50+ years.
Really bewildering!
Don't think they will sell you also, since they count just like you and Archacon:
Rental per month $3000 x 36 months = $108,000 total rental!
So they would want to sell you $108,000 (because that is the rental stream they will get if they don't sell)!
:applouse:
May be they will sell you at $5000 from when they still have <1 year lease left?
Once you buy a good FH property, you can sleep in peace with capital appreciation and bonus with tenants helping you to pay for your mortgage.
They bought the WRONG house lah! Plain simple as that!
Warren Buffett said if you bought the right stock (just like buying the right property, like Freehold property in prime location), you do nothing for next 30 years and you still will still makes lots of money!
If you bought the wrong stock (like buying depreciating leasehold property (regardless of landed or non-landed like apartments, condos etc)), then you have to be like Soros know when to flip and sell quickly to the next greater fool.......
Then you have to ask yourself, are you as smart as Soros? Have you been making lots and lots of money from flipping stocks and forex etc? If you don't, what makes you think you can make money flipping property?
Anyway, Soros always buy at near cheapest price and sell near highest price!
So if you learn the lesson from Soros: Are you going to buy OCR private property at THOUSAND YEARS HISTORICAL PEAK PRICE or going to sell (so that you can make money)?
Ha ha ha!
Precisely because they thought the same way like you, that is why they are at the DEAD END now without a property over their head! What yield are you talking about?!
Imagine they bought at $5000 in 1961 for a freehold terrace house, they would be able to live in it until they die (even if they live until 150 years old!), and still leave behind a freehold terrace house that is easily valued at >$3 Millions!.
You want to talk about yield? Then average yield of the freehold terrace house = ($3M / $5000)/57 years = 1,052% p.a.! :joyous:
I don't know how you get your compounded yield to be 6%. Let's do easier calculation using average yield for your 60-years leasehold terrace house = ($100k / $5000) / 57 years = 35% p.a.
Now that they acted like what you thought is wise to do, they end up with 60-years leasehold terrace house with 3 years expiry and market value of say $100k and going to expire to $0 value in 3 years time without a roof over their head and no more money to buy another property to live in! :grief:
It's weird leh.
Bought at 5000, lived in it for 50+ years, left three years lease, but still valued at 100K, equating to approximately 6% compounded on 5000 for 50+ years.
Really bewildering!
1. 5 room HDB with a floor area of 126sqm is LKY baby, now max only 105 sqm.
2. Singapore uses to zone and price from the CBD call inner urban, outer urban, inner suburban.... also no more now they call Mature and Non-Mature estate.
3. HDB use to control valuation of resale HDB now also no more.
4. To buy HDB you need to have enough income to get the big unit and income limit to get HDB.
5. HDB resale cannot rent out during MOP (5 years).
6. PR cannot buy resale within 3 years of getting PR and must sell when not in Singapore and when buy PC.
And many other factor which can only increase the selling price of HDB.
When they start selling HDB for 60 years lease, the resale can only get worst.
Don't really have to look at historical for pricing. The underlying market dynamic is not static, it changes over time, ALL the time.
The most recent transaction of Southbank is $1.45 mil, 958 sf unit (99LH, 2006).
The most recent rental transaction is $4000 pm.
$4000 pm over 30 years is $1.44 mil.
(There you go, the quick answer to your question. Nothing to do with money printing right?)
Balam is HDB, meaning there is no land value to begin with. Maybe a “land squatting value” can be applied?
Then, what is the multiplier to use for Balam today? How about for the 10-years projection? How about the next next 10-years projection? And going on, at the 99th year the value is still zero tiobo?
OK lah, maybe there is SERS sibo?
But what is the attraction of SERS, the government is basically paying you the market rate to possess on one hand, and selling you another at market rate on the other hand (I confess not knowing all the details).
SERS is unlike a private enbloc, where the owner will get maybe $5 mil instead of $2 mil without an enbloc.
Oh, forgot to add that based on your claim of yield for the 60-years leasehold terrace house, now at 57-years old, this 60-years leasehold terrace house has average yield = 35% p.a.
Ironically, when this 60-years leasehold terrace house reaches 60-years old, it will then has an average yield = 0% p.a.!
Now, what kind of "good" investment will become $ZERO the longer you hold them?! Ironic and epic stupidity isn't it?!
Ha ha ha!
Precisely because they thought the same way like you, that is why they are at the DEAD END now without a property over their head! What yield are you talking about?!
Imagine they bought at $5000 in 1961 for a freehold terrace house, they would be able to live in it until they die (even if they live until 150 years old!), and still leave behind a freehold terrace house that is easily valued at >$3 Millions!.
You want to talk about yield? Then average yield of the freehold terrace house = ($3M / $5000)/57 years = 1,052% p.a.! :joyous:
I don't know how you get your compounded yield to be 6%. Let's do easier calculation using average yield for your 60-years leasehold terrace house = ($100k / $5000) / 57 years = 35% p.a.
Now that they acted like what you thought is wise to do, they end up with 60-years leasehold terrace house with 3 years expiry and market value of say $100k and going to expire to $0 value in 3 years time without a roof over their head and no more money to buy another property to live in! :grief:
It's weird leh.
Bought at 5000, lived in it for 50+ years, left three years lease, but still valued at 100K, equating to approximately 6% compounded on 5000 for 50+ years.
Really bewildering!
According to news and Arcachon, only 33 out of 191 did not have the right software. 158 units knew exactly what to do and have gone ahead to do it.
It's not the yield that really matters. It's what you had chosen to do with the yield that determines the make or break.
Oh, forgot to add that based on your claim of yield for the 60-years leasehold terrace house, now at 57-years old, this 60-years leasehold terrace house has average yield = 35% p.a.
Ironically, when this 60-years leasehold terrace house reaches 60-years old, it will then has an average yield = 0% p.a.!
Now, what kind of "good" investment will become $ZERO the longer you hold them?! Ironic and epic stupidity isn't it?!
Hence, LH landed property will become more run down as which owner in the right frame of mind will renovate or rebuilt the house at a cost of at least $500k. This also applies to LH condo nearing to their lease. Someone posted a question in the forum recently on why he is just a tenant in a HDB flat where HDB is the landlord and why are they paying property tax.
Ha ha ha!
Precisely because they thought the same way like you, that is why they are at the DEAD END now without a property over their head! What yield are you talking about?!
Imagine they bought at $5000 in 1961 for a freehold terrace house, they would be able to live in it until they die (even if they live until 150 years old!), and still leave behind a freehold terrace house that is easily valued at >$3 Millions!.
You want to talk about yield? Then average yield of the freehold terrace house = ($3M / $5000)/57 years = 1,052% p.a.! :joyous:
I don't know how you get your compounded yield to be 6%. Let's do easier calculation using average yield for your 60-years leasehold terrace house = ($100k / $5000) / 57 years = 35% p.a.
Now that they acted like what you thought is wise to do, they end up with 60-years leasehold terrace house with 3 years expiry and market value of say $100k and going to expire to $0 value in 3 years time without a roof over their head and no more money to buy another property to live in! :grief:
Roughly 20-30 years left or more there will be those who will renovate but maybe not rebuild... 100-200k
Hence, LH landed property will become more run down as which owner in the right frame of mind will renovate or rebuilt the house at a cost of at least $500k. This also applies to LH condo nearing to their lease. Someone posted a question in the forum recently on why he is just a tenant in a HDB flat where HDB is the landlord and why are they paying property tax.
Balam is HDB, meaning there is no land value to begin with. Maybe a “land squatting value” can be applied?
Then, what is the multiplier to use for Balam today? How about for the 10-years projection? How about the next next 10-years projection? And going on, at the 99th year the value is still zero tiobo?
First is the Macpherson MRT, then the Matter MRT.
Once the landed move out and they start building near the MRT that is where the fun begin.
Like it or not it wouldn't be cheap.
If you spend Billions of Dollar on the land, whether you like it or not the building will cost more.
Simple logic, Billions here, Billions there and the Land is cheaper and the property is cheaper is it possible.
HDB, Landed, PC price rise depends on the money pour into the land.
UN once did a calculation to build another Singapore City and their conclusion is next to impossible.
According to news and Arcachon, only 33 out of 191 did not have the right software. 158 units knew exactly what to do and have gone ahead to do it.
It's not the yield that really matters. It's what you had chosen to do with the yield that determines the make or break.
http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/sunday-spotlight-embracing-its-messy-quirky-charms-lorong-3-geylang-residents-live-life
There is a sizeable piece of land next to the convent school and the open air carpark that is next to the mattar station. Another large piece of land behind the landed properties and several blocks of old 1-2 room
flats. Those nearby landed property should be worried.
First is the Macpherson MRT, then the Matter MRT.
Once the landed move out and they start building near the MRT that is where the fun begin.
Like it or not it wouldn't be cheap.
If you spend Billions of Dollar on the land, whether you like it or not the building will cost more.
Simple logic, Billions here, Billions there and the Land is cheaper and the property is cheaper is it possible.
HDB, Landed, PC price rise depends on the money pour into the land.
UN once did a calculation to build another Singapore City and their conclusion is next to impossible.
Duplicate.
First is the Macpherson MRT, then the Matter MRT.
Once the landed move out and they start building near the MRT that is where the fun begin.
Like it or not it wouldn't be cheap.
If you spend Billions of Dollar on the land, whether you like it or not the building will cost more.
Simple logic, Billions here, Billions there and the Land is cheaper and the property is cheaper is it possible.
HDB, Landed, PC price rise depends on the money pour into the land.
UN once did a calculation to build another Singapore City and their conclusion is next to impossible.
Owners in their 50s should consider selling their LH landed with 20-30 years lease.
Roughly 20-30 years left or more there will be those who will renovate but maybe not rebuild... 100-200k
There is a sizeable piece of land next to the convent school and the open air carpark that is next to the mattar station. Another large piece of land behind the landed properties and several blocks of old 1-2 room
flats. Those nearby landed property should be worried.
https://www.onemap.sg/
https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19424098_10210854041800011_8754845515729292384_n.jpg?oh=5b8aad54c962c49105b037a3fd72c2a2&oe=5A115670
https://www.ura.gov.sg/maps/?service=MP
SLA takes legal possession of 3 landed homes at Merpati Road
SINGAPORE: Three freehold landed properties at Merpati Road were legally possessed by the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) on Tuesday (Apr 25), as part of the land acquisition process for the future Mattar MRT station on Downtown Line 3 (DTL3) and surrounding developments.
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sla-takes-legal-possession-of-3-landed-homes-at-merpati-road-8791026
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sla-takes-legal-possession-of-3-landed-homes-at-merpati-road-8791026
The 3 blocks of flat will go very soon with Plot ratio of 3.
https://www.onemap.sg/
https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19424098_10210854041800011_8754845515729292384_n.jpg?oh=5b8aad54c962c49105b037a3fd72c2a2&oe=5A115670
https://www.ura.gov.sg/maps/?service=MP
SLA takes legal possession of 3 landed homes at Merpati Road
SINGAPORE: Three freehold landed properties at Merpati Road were legally possessed by the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) on Tuesday (Apr 25), as part of the land acquisition process for the future Mattar MRT station on Downtown Line 3 (DTL3) and surrounding developments.
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sla-takes-legal-possession-of-3-landed-homes-at-merpati-road-8791026
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sla-takes-legal-possession-of-3-landed-homes-at-merpati-road-8791026
First is the Macpherson MRT, then the Matter MRT.
Once the landed move out and they start building near the MRT that is where the fun begin.
Like it or not it wouldn't be cheap.
If you spend Billions of Dollar on the land, whether you like it or not the building will cost more.
Simple logic, Billions here, Billions there and the Land is cheaper and the property is cheaper is it possible.
HDB, Landed, PC price rise depends on the money pour into the land.
UN once did a calculation to build another Singapore City and their conclusion is next to impossible.
People talk about A you talk about B.
In any case, NOBODY disagreed with what you wrote above even though it was been repeated ad nauseam.
BUT.
I don't know if you realise how contradictory it is, between what is being espoused and the LH nature of properties being held.
Don't really have to look at historical for pricing. The underlying market dynamic is not static, it changes over time, ALL the time.
The most recent transaction of Southbank is $1.45 mil, 958 sf unit (99LH, 2006).
The most recent rental transaction is $4000 pm.
$4000 pm over 30 years is $1.44 mil.
(There you go, the quick answer to your question. Nothing to do with money printing right?)
Balam is HDB, meaning there is no land value to begin with. Maybe a “land squatting value” can be applied?
Then, what is the multiplier to use for Balam today? How about for the 10-years projection? How about the next next 10-years projection? And going on, at the 99th year the value is still zero tiobo?
OK lah, maybe there is SERS sibo?
But what is the attraction of SERS, the government is basically paying you the market rate to possess on one hand, and selling you another at market rate on the other hand (I confess not knowing all the details).
SERS is unlike a private enbloc, where the owner will get maybe $5 mil instead of $2 mil without an enbloc.
Already calculated but you also don't know how to interpret the data?
Right now, Southbank is being transacted at a price assigning $0 to your share value of the land on which the building sits.
In other words, the buyer (if he is a proxy investor) who paid $1.45 mil recently in April will be able to enjoy full coverage of rental over cost, and still able to reap the residual share value of land.
Amber Woods
26-06-17, 12:43
The 3 blocks of flat will go very soon with Plot ratio of 3.
The 3 blocks of HDB flats are rented units and the lessor is HDB itself. Hence, the plot ratio was increased from 2.8 to 3 during Master Plan 2014. HDB will not be selling these flats meant for rental hence no one can benefit from SER.
This is a nice piece of land for development as it is just next to landed properties.
The 3 blocks of HDB flats are rented units and the lessor is HDB itself. Hence, the plot ratio was increased from 2.8 to 3 during Master Plan 2014. HDB will not be selling these flats meant for rental hence no one can benefit from SER.
The 3 blocks of HDB flats are rented units and the lessor is HDB itself. Hence, the plot ratio was increased from 2.8 to 3 during Master Plan 2014. HDB will not be selling these flats meant for rental hence no one can benefit from SER.
SER is for 99 years leasehold HDB, HDB rental flat tenants will be asked to move to other HDB rental flat.
The Land will be sold to Private Developer and the money will go into GIC.
People talk about A you talk about B.
In any case, NOBODY disagreed with what you wrote above even though it was been repeated ad nauseam.
BUT.
I don't know if you realise how contradictory it is, between what is being espoused and the LH nature of properties being held.
Don't be so serious about A and B, now I talk C ok.
https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/28/googles-ai-creates-its-own-inhuman-encryption/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnzlbyTZsQY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfxpQ3fFwoE
Don't really have to look at historical for pricing. The underlying market dynamic is not static, it changes over time, ALL the time.
The most recent transaction of Southbank is $1.45 mil, 958 sf unit (99LH, 2006).
The most recent rental transaction is $4000 pm.
$4000 pm over 30 years is $1.44 mil.
(There you go, the quick answer to your question. Nothing to do with money printing right?)
Balam is HDB, meaning there is no land value to begin with. Maybe a “land squatting value” can be applied?
Then, what is the multiplier to use for Balam today? How about for the 10-years projection? How about the next next 10-years projection? And going on, at the 99th year the value is still zero tiobo?
OK lah, maybe there is SERS sibo?
But what is the attraction of SERS, the government is basically paying you the market rate to possess on one hand, and selling you another at market rate on the other hand (I confess not knowing all the details).
SERS is unlike a private enbloc, where the owner will get maybe $5 mil instead of $2 mil without an enbloc.
The example above shows the baseline rental value using simple calculation.
To arrive at the projected rental value, we have to input the funding cost and the rental trend in the pricing model.
pricing model, rental value d(funding cost, rental trend)
Funding cost is not the bank financing interest rate, but the hurdle rate that a buyer can normally obtain in alternative investment such as stock, bond, forex etc. And yes, including CPF interest rate.
In other words, property is but an alternative in the universe of investment options.
Rental trend is a projection of rental supply and demand, and how the imbalance can influence rental prices in the foreseeable future.
Should be rental income + residual value of property (with inflation) at the end of 99 years (then you can compare properties with different remaining lease)
It is a common practice to compare the pricing of a new launch with the resale transactions done of properties in the vicinity.
It used to be so easy, and in a buoyant, rising property market the error caused by this kind of simplistic comparison was camouflaged.
Actually it is not about comparing the resale transactions of surrounding properties , or the asking prices, but the rental value of a property being assessed.
Our property tax is based on rental value which IRAS called it as annual value.
In fact, all decisions related to a property, that is whether to buy or rent, whether to monetise a property in the portfolio, can be traced to its rental value.
What should happen to the land value of a 99LH private property over its lifespan?
To illustrate a simple model, let's consider a property unit that cost the buyer $1.0 mil, for 1000 sf therefore $1000 psf GFA.
Buyer bought it with the LTV of 80%, didn't matter if he bought to stay or for investment.
For mass market, the typical ratio of the unit’s land share value and physical cost is (60:40). Therefore, the buyer paid $600 k for the unit’s land share value (60% of $1.0 mil).
For example in the case of Stirling Road, if the selling price is $1850 psf GFA then the ratio becomes (57:43, $1050:$800).
The depreciation rate to apply for the land share value should be 1% per year.
At the end of 30 years the land share value will deprecate by 30% so it becomes $420 k.
$180 k ($600 k minus $420 k) is deprecated over 30 years, therefore 90% of the initial capital deployed is wiped out.
Now, what will happen if the surrounding land has an enbloc or GLS at the 30th year?
Let's say after calculating what the developer has paid for the land plus DP etc, we arrive at the price of $1500 psf ppr.
For the unit, the land share value should be re-rated to $630 k ($600 k x 1.5 x 70%). This is the reason why LH property has been retaining its nominal value so far.
Now, what if the re-rating is done at the 60th year?
The land share value should then be $360 k ($600 k x 1.5 x 40%) so the value is lower than the initial $600 k.
What should happen to the land value of a 99LH private property over its lifespan?
To illustrate a simple model, let's consider a property unit that cost the buyer $1.0 mil, for 1000 sf therefore $1000 psf GFA.
Buyer bought it with the LTV of 80%, didn't matter if he bought to stay or for investment.
For mass market, the typical ratio of the unit’s land share value and physical cost is (60:40). Therefore, the buyer paid $600 k for the unit’s land share value (60% of $1.0 mil).
For example in the case of Stirling Road, if the selling price is $1850 psf GFA then the ratio becomes (57:43, $1050:$800).
The depreciation rate to apply for the land share value should be 1% per year.
At the end of 30 years the land share value will deprecate by 30% so it becomes $420 k.
$180 k ($600 k minus $420 k) is deprecated over 30 years, therefore 90% of the initial capital deployed is wiped out.
Now, what will happen if the surrounding land has an enbloc or GLS at the 30th year?
Let's say after calculating what the developer has paid for the land plus DP etc, we arrive at the price of $1500 psf ppr.
For the unit, the land share value should be re-rated to $630 k ($600 k x 1.5 x 70%). This is the reason why LH property has been retaining its nominal value so far.
Now, what if the re-rating is done at the 60th year?
The land share value should then be $360 k ($600 k x 1.5 x 40%) so the value is lower than the initial $600 k.
True if the Government is not doing anything to the Land.
When the government use Tax payer money to improve the Land, money is transfer from the don't have to the have.
Those with no land value get less, those who rent get nothing and get to pay more to those who have.
Bring yourself back 50 years and you will be able to see the picture better.
Money in the Bank can only depreciate, money in the property will attract more money when the government of the day improve the land.
Very insightful discourse with fair share of technicalities. I will go qualitative.
For public housing, I would think the statements by Lawrence Wong is to ‘scare’ the Singaporeans at large as many ones are still buying HDB like FH property and never think about run out period. The crazy ones will pay ~$1m for HDB flats… like seriously?!!
But think about it from political and social standpoints. There is no precedence of HDB taking back 99-yr expired flats yet. If you were the PM and head of ruling party, would you allow your Minister for National Development to really let the bulk of many hundreds and thousands of HDB flats not subject to SERS run to 99 years and then take back every single ones with zero value remaining? And sell land to private developers for bigger profits? Or redevelop and resell as brand new back to populace at full price? And let half of Singaporeans (figuratively speaking) be homeless or go squeeze in the homes of their reluctant children/relatives.
Maybe my wishful thinking but not everything is dollars and cents. At some point, some areas may really be taken back just like Geylang Lor 3 but I think this could be the minority with way way advance notice to manage expectations. Singapore may really just be that unique.
For public housing, I would think the statements by Lawrence Wong is to ‘scare’ the Singaporeans at large as many ones are still buying HDB like FH property and never think about run out period. The crazy ones will pay ~$1m for HDB flats… like seriously?!!
If you remember the million dollar coffee shop, you will know the crazy ones may not be so.
You need to know what calculator they use.
Your statements are contradictory if anybody bothers to delve into it..............
"There is no precedence of HDB taking back 99-yr expired flats yet."
contradicts
"some areas may really be taken back just like Geylang Lor 3"..............
Firstly, the government had taken back Geylang Lor 3 leasehold land and paid NOTHING to the owners..............
Secondly HDB is just a statutory board of the Government under MND and MND Minister Lawrence Wong already said you can't expect Gov to extend the lease of your HDB flats when they expire.......
If you insist that the gov won't take back HDB flats after they expire at end of 99-years and claiming that:
"I would think the statements by Lawrence Wong is to ‘scare’ the Singaporeans",
then are you claiming that the MND Minister Lawrence Wong is lying through his teeth?
Very insightful discourse with fair share of technicalities. I will go qualitative.
For public housing, I would think the statements by Lawrence Wong is to ‘scare’ the Singaporeans at large as many ones are still buying HDB like FH property and never think about run out period. The crazy ones will pay ~$1m for HDB flats… like seriously?!!
But think about it from political and social standpoints. There is no precedence of HDB taking back 99-yr expired flats yet. If you were the PM and head of ruling party, would you allow your Minister for National Development to really let the bulk of many hundreds and thousands of HDB flats not subject to SERS run to 99 years and then take back every single ones with zero value remaining? And sell land to private developers for bigger profits? Or redevelop and resell as brand new back to populace at full price? And let half of Singaporeans (figuratively speaking) be homeless or go squeeze in the homes of their reluctant children/relatives.
Maybe my wishful thinking but not everything is dollars and cents. At some point, some areas may really be taken back just like Geylang Lor 3 but I think this could be the minority with way way advance notice to manage expectations. Singapore may really just be that unique.
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