View Full Version : TDSR Rules on Refinancing Fine-tuned!
bargain hunter
01-09-16, 18:27
http://www.mas.gov.sg/News-and-Publications/Media-Releases/2016/TDSR-Rules-on-Refinancing-Fine-Tuned.aspx
"commits to a debt reduction plan with his financial institution to repay at least 3 per cent of the outstanding balance over a period
of not more than 3 years".
That means just need to pay 1% of outstanding loan per year? - equivalent to 100 years loan? ( good match for 99LH).
bargain hunter
01-09-16, 20:44
i think its even possible to negotiate with the bank to pay 3% right at the end of the 3rd year if the bank is flexible.
Probably MAS realising that not so good times are lying ahead. More people losing jobs or getting pay cut, and govt wants to prevent situation where they go into default, firesale etc. This allows them to refinance and roll over, and take advantage of current low interest rates.
MAS says that this is not relaxing of CM, but in effect it is (albeit a very minor tweak). Apart from that, this also sends a signal to the market, and we all know how property market is largely sentiment driven. Some will interpret this as govt signaling that prices have reached the support level, and take their cue from there. Expect some fence sitters to start coming out of the woodwork.
smellyfish
02-09-16, 09:10
How much above the 60% can one go? Must one be within the 60% tdsr limits after the 3 years when the 3% is repaid?
How much above the 60% can one go? Must one be within the 60% tdsr limits after the 3 years when the 3% is repaid?
I also thinking about this question...is there any internal limits set by banks?
Looks like you caught another one (the other one caught previously is by MOM and CPF) - Is MAS trying to confuse, mislead, or speak half-truths?????
As I have said before, the property cooling measures like ABSD+TDSR are causing many forcing selling of big quantum properties (mostly in CCR), but this will spread to lower quantum soon (many in OCR) as Singapore's economy is getting bad and residents' unemployment rate rises............... Is it any wonder for the "tweakling" (looks like "relaxing") of the property cooling measures?
Probably MAS realising that not so good times are lying ahead. More people losing jobs or getting pay cut, and govt wants to prevent situation where they go into default, firesale etc. This allows them to refinance and roll over, and take advantage of current low interest rates.
MAS says that this is not relaxing of CM, but in effect it is (albeit a very minor tweak). Apart from that, this also sends a signal to the market, and we all know how property market is largely sentiment driven. Some will interpret this as govt signaling that prices have reached the support level, and take their cue from there. Expect some fence sitters to start coming out of the woodwork.
Anyone knows what is the interest rate if the person is unable to do Repricing due to tdrs? Still low right, ard 2-2.5%？
It will be based on the mortgage loan conditions. Can be over 3%.
Anyone knows what is the interest rate if the person is unable to do Repricing due to tdrs? Still low right, ard 2-2.5%？
bargain hunter
02-09-16, 10:20
there is no limit coz this is not the LTV. fail TDSR means fail TDSR, doesn't matter how many % one can go.
i think this is called review every 3 years? every 3 years if the person keeps his promise to repay 3%, then review again, still fail TDSR, repeat for 3 years with another commitment to repay another 3% at the end of the next 3 years and so on.
How much above the 60% can one go? Must one be within the 60% tdsr limits after the 3 years when the 3% is repaid?
bargain hunter
02-09-16, 10:22
I also thinking about this question...is there any internal limits set by banks?
it will vary from bank to bank and borrower's individual credit standing. to be sure, the bank will not want to 'dua' a borrower if he has been servicing the loan well. doesn't do the bank any good to push for mortgagee sales.
bargain hunter
02-09-16, 10:24
It will be based on the mortgage loan conditions. Can be over 3%.
but the bulk of it is still between 2 and 3%. i also got a friend on those sibor rates and after expiry still < 2%. he can now refinance if he wants to.
it will vary from bank to bank and borrower's individual credit standing. to be sure, the bank will not want to 'dua' a borrower if he has been servicing the loan well. doesn't do the bank any good to push for mortgagee sales.
Refinance means can go with another bank that offers more competitive package. Stick to same bank is repricing.
Your friend is lucky to be on SIBOR-pegged mortgage loans......
Those on Board-rate mortgage loans and they got hit bloody hard! :panda:
but the bulk of it is still between 2 and 3%. i also got a friend on those sibor rates and after expiry still < 2%. he can now refinance if he wants to.
I am due for Repricing end of the year. I called my bank last week and was told as long as I put in $6k as part of early redemption, I do not need to submit all the docs for TDRS.. so the bank is aware of this relaxation already?
Can refinance increase the loan amount?
If my outstanding loan is $500k, can I refinance to 1milllion and above my TDSR (assuming I have another loan on another property) and use that $500k plus savings to buy another property thus avoiding TDSR?
bargain hunter
02-09-16, 13:57
Can refinance increase the loan amount?
If my outstanding loan is $500k, can I refinance to 1milllion and above my TDSR (assuming I have another loan on another property) and use that $500k plus savings to buy another property thus avoiding TDSR?
u say leh? :)
bargain hunter
02-09-16, 13:59
Your friend is lucky to be on SIBOR-pegged mortgage loans......
Those on Board-rate mortgage loans and they got hit bloody hard! :panda:
but now they are saved.
bargain hunter
02-09-16, 14:00
I am due for Repricing end of the year. I called my bank last week and was told as long as I put in $6k as part of early redemption, I do not need to submit all the docs for TDRS.. so the bank is aware of this relaxation already?
if owner stay then there was no need for TDSR at all rite? if investment ppty then that means they already knew.
bargain hunter
02-09-16, 14:02
Refinance means can go with another bank that offers more competitive package. Stick to same bank is repricing.
but even repricing would previously require submitting for TDSR for investment property previously right?
but now all are exempted regardless of when they bought the unit as long as they reduce the loan quantum by 3% every 3 years.
if owner stay then there was no need for TDSR at all rite? if investment ppty then that means they already knew.
yup, its investment property. so they already knew beforehand.
"fine-tuning" TDSR is step one
"fine-tuning" ABSD for citizen shall be the next
Refinancing should have never been subjected to TDSR in the 1st place. The outstanding loan is already taken out, whether it falls on this bank or the other bank, there is no change in the total loan book in the banking system. Making refinancing so difficult only serves to enrich the banks (since I dun need to do anything, just sit there and enjoy high Y4 spreads, cause I know you can't get out).
Can refinance increase the loan amount?
If my outstanding loan is $500k, can I refinance to 1milllion and above my TDSR (assuming I have another loan on another property) and use that $500k plus savings to buy another property thus avoiding TDSR?
This is called "home equity loan", not "refinance". Already did this in 2006 after receiving an email from the Bank.
However, one cannot purchase a home using a home equity loan, one can only use a home equity loan to refinance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_equity_loan
Miss the good old days.
http://www.renotalk.com/forum/topic/41087-refinancing-and-equity-loan/
It was the quickest way to cool the hot market then.
Only SG uses such stringent financing criteria.
To make people unable to see upside and refrain from speculative overstretch. Preys on the human mind to be absorbed with worst case sscenario.
It was meant to be removed at the right time.
"fine-tuning" TDSR is step one
"fine-tuning" ABSD for citizen shall be the next
Refinancing should have never been subjected to TDSR in the 1st place. The outstanding loan is already taken out, whether it falls on this bank or the other bank, there is no change in the total loan book in the banking system. Making refinancing so difficult only serves to enrich the banks (since I dun need to do anything, just sit there and enjoy high Y4 spreads, cause I know you can't get out).
The psychology of removal of TDSR for refinancing may seem a subtle one, but it will have far reaching impacts on various areas.
Without its removal, people with mortgage may be hesitant to spend on cars and credit purchases and subsequent investment property purchases. They may be unsure about income or their long term intentions to stay in a high paying job and be reluctant to take risks and change jobs.
They may worry about stuck with high rates if income drops or fall sick. But the concession means that the only consideration now is their savings if they lose their job.
The previous refinancing can only be up to 65 years old if one wishes to retire then (0 income) but even that is not relevant now for the group that managed to loan beyond. Even retire at 55 or 60 is more palatable now if manage to save enough.
bargain hunter
02-09-16, 23:01
The psychology of removal of TDSR for refinancing may seem a subtle one, but it will have far reaching impacts on various areas.
Without its removal, people with mortgage may be hesitant to spend on cars and credit purchases and subsequent investment property purchases. They may be unsure about income or their long term intentions to stay in a high paying job and be reluctant to take risks and change jobs.
They may worry about stuck with high rates if income drops or fall sick. But the concession means that the only consideration now is their savings if they lose their job.
The previous refinancing can only be up to 65 years old if one wishes to retire then (0 income) but even that is not relevant now for the group that managed to loan beyond. Even retire at 55 or 60 is more palatable now if manage to save enough.
agree! money may also circulate around at least a bit more rather than everyone going defensive and start saving for whatever TDSR impact.
bargain hunter
02-09-16, 23:03
"fine-tuning" TDSR is step one
"fine-tuning" ABSD for citizen shall be the next
Refinancing should have never been subjected to TDSR in the 1st place. The outstanding loan is already taken out, whether it falls on this bank or the other bank, there is no change in the total loan book in the banking system. Making refinancing so difficult only serves to enrich the banks (since I dun need to do anything, just sit there and enjoy high Y4 spreads, cause I know you can't get out).
it also dua some pple to kenna mortgagee sale in the last 3 years?
It's a turnover effect for people who truly believe in Singapore properties or need to buy to get vested at decent prices from people who speculate purely for profits and don't really understand this market or really ever needed the property. Wise turnover.
it also dua some pple to kenna mortgagee sale in the last 3 years?
This is interesting:
http://www.mortgagewise.sg/3-ways-to-overcome-tdsr/
1. Explore Asset-Based Lending (ABL)
By far this is the most common advice given by all bankers and mortgage brokers. And it is also permitted specifically by MAS Notice 645 clause 19 (reproduced below) where it defines what are considered “eligible financial assets” that the central bank allows to be “converted” into a monthly income stream by applying a haircut based on whether the asset is liquid or if it is pledged to the bank or not.
MAS Notice 645 on eligible financial assets for TDSR
You can see quite clearly MAS considers all stocks, unit trusts, business trusts, debentures or bonds, gold, foreign currency deposits, structured deposits to be liquid assets which can help to boost your monthly income in order to bring down the TDSR.
This is a fairly long list and comes as good news for many who have rightly done portfolio allocation across different asset class like equities, bonds, gold, real estate etc. You are not exactly about to sell these investments away just so to pay down on the loan. MAS now allows you to “show” these eligible financial assets to the banks who are allowed to recognize them as monthly income after taking a 70% haircut and spreading that over a 4-year period of 48 months. Note we are not saying pledging to the bank here which is not what you like to hear; just showing the latest statements of your various holdings to the bank would be fine for most however. However if you like to boost your income further (if your TDSR is too high) you may decide to pledge them to the bank for a 4-year period in which case no haircut of 70% will be taken and this will boost your income substantially.
One simple example is if you should have combined foreign currency deposits and shares amounting to say S$200,000, you will boost your monthly income by :
($200,000 x 30%) divide by 48 months = $1250
And if you decide to pledge the assets here then your monthly income goes up by $200,000/48 (no haircut required) = $4167! This will bring down your TDSR substantially for most people.
One caveat here is even though MAS has allow asset-based lending, it is still very much the call of the individual financial institution to decide which asset to allow and how to go about computing it like exchange rate etc. Also note that in event your assets valuation do fluctuate you will need to build in some buffer as banks will require you to show your assets at two points in time – application and disbursement usually 3 months later. If the stock market goes down and your asset is worth less 3 months later, your loan granted may get cut!
Nice calculator including asset pledge:
https://uniservices1.uobgroup.com/secure/online_tools/calculators/TDSR/index.jsp
So you could make minimum down payments, and pledge your liquidity assets to the bank for 4 years, and maximise your loan. After that you just refinance and pay 3% outstanding loan every 3 years - effectively singapore can now have 100 years loan now！
So you could make minimum down payments, and pledge your liquidity assets to the bank for 4 years, and maximise your loan. After that you just refinance and pay 3% outstanding loan every 3 years - effectively singapore can now have 100 years loan now！
Don't understand "effectively singapore can now have 100 years loan now！"
Only FH still can. Banks will not lend if lease falls below 30 years. 65 years can do that.
So you could make minimum down payments, and pledge your liquidity assets to the bank for 4 years, and maximise your loan. After that you just refinance and pay 3% outstanding loan every 3 years - effectively singapore can now have 100 years loan now！
Do you guys go directly to a bank or via a mortgage broker?
The broker seems to be very knowledgeable, and they don't charge you any higher rate than that of the bank's listed to everyone.
But if you are a regular customer for a bank, maybe you can push the bank to give you some other perks?
If every 3 years you pay 3% of outstanding loan, you can spend 100 years to pay the 100% outstanding loan.
So effectively the new rule allows for 100 years loan?
Any age limit for asset pledged income? 65 years old? ... or 70?
If you get your children to be the guarantor, can you borrow until age 100?
Do you guys go directly to a bank or via a mortgage broker?
The broker seems to be very knowledgeable, and they don't charge you any higher rate than that of the bank's listed to everyone.
But if you are a regular customer for a bank, maybe you can push the bank to give you some other perks?
I try to go mortgage broker to get refinancing, none of them can.
Guess most of them must be wondering how can Bank loan me so much money.
Any age limit for asset pledged income? 65 years old? ... or 70?
If you get your children to be the guarantor, can you borrow until age 100?
IWAA - http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/money-mind-210/mortgage-matters-101-income-weighted-average-age-4389916.html
https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14212214_10208323091567837_4447490472826981486_n.jpg?oh=569e0f75b683a3f8bd34c77ce000e4d7&oe=587E759E
Thanks! So 65 years old is still the limit regardless how much asset you have?
Then we don't have 100 years loan in Singapore.
How about a person with 3 properties reaching 65 years old still have outstanding loan? Force sale?
Thanks! So 65 years old is still the limit regardless how much asset you have?
Then we don't have 100 years loan in Singapore.
How about a person with 3 properties reaching 65 years old still have outstanding loan? Force sale?
http://www.sgpnewlaunches.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/loanstructure.jpg
https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=loan+property+singapore&biw=1366&bih=585&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiSu-yu6vLOAhXIro8KHU9EDaEQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=Q0-1z3SRu3k4aM%3A
Thanks! So 65 years old is still the limit regardless how much asset you have?
Then we don't have 100 years loan in Singapore.
How about a person with 3 properties reaching 65 years old still have outstanding loan? Force sale?
50 years loan was removed within 3 months after it was launch.Posted on 20-Jul-2012
http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/financial-guide/home-loan-repayment-can-now-stretch-to-50-years/a/74687
UNITED Overseas Bank (UOB) has introduced a home loan that spans half a century - likely the longest-term loan available here.
UOB introduced this longer loan duration as more customers have been requesting for such loans.
However, these loans come with conditions. 'This type of loan is applicable to private residential and HDB loans only,' said Ms Chia Siew Cheng, UOB's head of secured loans and personal financial services. As well, borrowers above a certain age are not eligible, but UOB declined to say what the cut-off age is.
And if the property is leasehold, it needs to have at least 35 years left on the lease at the end of the 50-year loan.
Ms Chia noted that the loan has its pros and cons. Having a longer term 'will result in a smaller monthly loan instalment and will be easier on monthly cashflows. However a longer repayment period also means that more interest will be payable'.
Financial adviser Damian Pang warned that by taking on such a long-term loan, the homeowner will be servicing the loan long into his retirement years.
A quick check with other banks here found that the longest loan term was 40 years.
At OCBC, for example, the maximum loan period for private and HDB homes is 40 years, or up to the age of 75 years, whichever is earlier.
At HSBC, customers with at least $200,000 with the bank can get loans of up to 40 years. Others can receive loans of up to 35 years, at the most.
Even then, most customers opt for loans of just 30 years, said Mr Harmander Mahal, HSBC Singapore's head of customer value management. Only about 1 per cent of customers take up the 40-year loans.
Longer term loans require the borrower to pay a smaller sum each month. This gives consumers the confidence to purchase new homes, and could help to keep prices buoyant, said Mr Ku Swee Yong, the chief executive of International Property Advisor. 'It improves affordability, which means it is good for the housing market in general, not just developers.'
Homeowner Edward Ti, 28, said he would certainly take up a 50-year loan for an investment property. 'I would take a 50-year loan if interest rates are low. I would think that it is more efficient to use the money saved from the monthly mortgages to do something else.'
If a borrower takes out a 50-year loan for $1 million at an interest rate of 1.7 per cent, he would have to pay about $2,475 monthly for his mortgage, compared with $3,548 if the loan ran for 30 years.
This is assuming a period of low interest rates. However, if interest rates rose, say to 3 per cent, the $1 million 50-year loan would mean monthly repayments of $3,220.
http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/threads/home-loan-stretch-to-50-years.52421/
http://www.btinvest.com.sg/personal_finance/home-loan/mas-monitoring-uobs-50-year-mortgage-loan-offer/
THE Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) is carefully monitoring a new 50-year mortgage product that was launched recently.
"We believe it is only one bank that is offering right now, and there has been no take-up," said MAS deputy managing director Teo Swee Lian at its annual report review.
United Overseas Bank recently introduced a home loan that spans half a century - probably the longest-term loan available here.
Asked if the MAS considers the long-tenor mortgage prudent, Ms Teo said: "MAS does watch carefully all the banks' credit underwriting standards and how they push credit products."
"Where necessary, we would take action," she added.
Some years ago, banks had pushed interest payment only mortgages and MAS came down against them because they were not prudent, she added. "Some may be perfectly reasonable and some may require some kind of tempering," she said.
UOB said it had developed the loan - applicable to private residential and HDB loans only - to help younger executives afford their first home.
"We expect applicants to be interested in this home loan option as it offers a smaller monthly loan instalment and is easier to manage when people are starting out in their careers," said Chia Siew Cheng, UOB's head of secured loans, Personal Financial Services.
"We are very clear with applicants that the longer repayment period and loan tenor also mean that more interest will be payable over the period of the loan," she added.
Ms Chia said that since the product was introduced this year, some young couples had applied for the 50-year loan, though the majority still tended to apply for loans with a tenor ranging from 20 to 35 years.
"Every customer is taken through a personal process whereby the principal amount and the interest payable over the loan tenor are explained to them. Customers can make comparisons of the various loan options before they make a decision. For all types of home loans that UOB offers, the bank carefully assesses each application using a range of criteria, including the loan-to-value ratio, the value of the property and the applicant's income," she said.
Also, the maximum loan tenor eligibility is dependent on the borrower's age - applicants cannot be more than 80 years of age at the end of the loan tenor.
If the property is leasehold, it needs to have at least 35 years left on the lease at the end of the 50-year loan.
http://property-new-launches.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Cooling-Measures.jpg
26 Jul 2012 09:13 by BY SIOW LI SEN about 50 years loan.
6 Oct 2012 MAS cooling measure
bargain hunter
03-09-16, 17:53
bro richwang, the tenure is as long as the bank is willing to lend to u. if loan tenure stretches above 65/more than 30 years, there is lower ltv (basically lend you 20% less off the purchase price).
for those borrowers who had commited to borrow up to 65 years old, they are expected to have cleared their loan when the tenure is completed so there is no issue there.
https://www.ura.gov.sg/uol/media-room/news/2013/jan/~/media/User%20Defined/URA%20Online/media-room/2013/jan/pr13-04a2.ashx
bargain hunter
03-09-16, 17:54
I try to go mortgage broker to get refinancing, none of them can.
Guess most of them must be wondering how can Bank loan me so much money.
bro Arcachon, now these mortgage brokers will come back knocking on your door. no problem already.
bro Arcachon, now these mortgage brokers will come back knocking on your door. no problem already.
Brokers out there, real or not.
Age 52
Monthly income 2,756.
Rental income 6,800.
660,000 336 months 2,386.19 541,077.86
750,000 324 months 2,928.03 714,861.96
428,000 336 months 1,551.84 340,098.33
$0.00
Monthly mortgages 6,866.06
5 room HDB valuation 640,000
2 bedroom condo about 1,500,000
3 bedroom PH condo bought Jun 2011 at 1,305,800
What other info do you need?
Rental > salary
Good way to go!
Thanks for the nice diagram and replies. Good to know we can invest beyond 65 years old.
60% loan for age beyond 65 years old. That's good news!
You have no other liquid asset?
Not sure about the months you stated, are those remaining tenure of your loan?
Brokers out there, real or not.
Age 52
Monthly income 2,756.
Rental income 6,800.
660,000 336 months 2,386.19 541,077.86
750,000 324 months 2,928.03 714,861.96
428,000 336 months 1,551.84 340,098.33
$0.00
Monthly mortgages 6,866.06
5 room HDB valuation 640,000
2 bedroom condo about 1,500,000
3 bedroom PH condo bought Jun 2011 at 1,305,800
What other info do you need?
Should be the loan tenure.
Can give any advise what should I do with the mess I get into.
Don't know whether you are considered lucky or unlucky............
Lucky because your loan tenure can stretch till 80 years old and your current TDSR is much more than 70%.............
Unlucky because I don't know how you can survive with so little income+rental income and that your total monthly mortgage installment is more than your rental income...................
If you have no other significant liquid assets, you will be in dire straits if you have no income and you can't find tenant for your properties or your rental income drop significantly (likely to happen in future in next recession)............
Think you need a good consultant to advise you............
Should be the loan tenure.
Can give any advise what should I do with the mess I get into.
It's not that difficult to imagine. Previous rules requiring mortgagors to prove income refuses to allow banks to recognise asset value to force down debt.
3 years of slimming and weight loss has taken place with better income loan matching.
It's a return to rrecognising SG asset value.
I believe in Property, not money.
Have prepare for this day when I cash out.
They can only build so high to keep the water from overflow.
Sooner or later the water will overflow.
Money printing at the present Time is so scary.
Within 4 years asset appreciated 1 million.
Then they use 8 control measure to hold it back.
Let see how long can they hold.
They just need to hold the property cooling measures for another 3-4 years before next recession hit, and that recession will drag for 2-3 years or even more, and then it will take another 2-3 years for recession (and property prices) to recover, so if you don't cash out now, it will means another 7-10 years before you have another chance again.............. Anyway, the cashing-out window is already closing down (just look at the relaxing of these property cooling measures you will know that crunch time is coming).
Decision is up to you (if you believe you have the liquidity to survive through crunch time for another 7-10 years, just make sure your property don't get force-sold like some of those in recent 3 years after all those property cooling measures).................
I believe in Property, not money.
Have prepare for this day when I cash out.
They can only build so high to keep the water from overflow.
Sooner or later the water will overflow.
Money printing at the present Time is so scary.
Within 4 years asset appreciated 1 million.
Then they use 8 control measure to hold it back.
Let see how long can they hold.
bargain hunter
03-09-16, 22:31
in the worst case scenario, he can still sell one of the properties for liquidity. bro arcachon can refinance but will need to find money to pay 3% of remaining outstanding every 3 years.
bargain hunter
03-09-16, 22:33
i think this NOT cooling measure is already a measure to help mitigate recession?
I use 108,000 to buy my first investment property, have since collected more than what I have used.
What do I have to lose, nothing.
Worst case moves back to my 5 room HDB 126 sqm and sells off the two condo.
I believe we have only so many years to live on this small planet, be happy and don't worry.
Pray to the lord and tomorrow will be a better day.
You can sell the 2 condos but at crunch times, you will know that the selling price can be as much as 50% off your current market price.........
I use 108,000 to buy my first investment property, have since collected more than what I have used.
What do I have to lose, nothing.
Worst case moves back to my 5 room HDB 126 sqm and sells off the two condo.
I believe we have only so many years to live on this small planet, be happy and don't worry.
Pray to the lord and tomorrow will be a better day.
But in the worst case scenario, he may have to sell at a significant hair-cut, something like 50%, off current market price.
in the worst case scenario, he can still sell one of the properties for liquidity. bro arcachon can refinance but will need to find money to pay 3% of remaining outstanding every 3 years.
Sounds like uob or ocbc up to age 80. Tdsr fail until badly. No bank want to take over such long tenure. Banks credit assessment would not want to approve even with so called tdsr exemption.
Under an environment where banks are allowed to recognise the asset value, why not?
They just cream the interest of a high quantum loan for more years.
In the case of default, it is easy to sell because all banks and individuals recognise the asset value without considering mortgagor income.
This subtle shift is a gigantic move actually.
Sounds like uob or ocbc up to age 80. Tdsr fail until badly. No bank want to take over such long tenure. Banks credit assessment would not want to approve even with so called tdsr exemption.
I use 108,000 to buy my first investment property, have since collected more than what I have used.
What do I have to lose, nothing.
Worst case moves back to my 5 room HDB 126 sqm and sells off the two condo.
I believe we have only so many years to live on this small planet, be happy and don't worry.
Pray to the lord and tomorrow will be a better day.
:encouragement:
The trick of leverage is when price is in uptrend, maximise it, and before price is in downtrend, deleverage.
Disclose: I haven't learnt the trick, so I don't use leverage (a clear mistake).
Under an environment where banks are allowed to recognise the asset value, why not?
Who can recognize ?
Who can recognize ?
Only Time can tell who can. If you can understand what is Time in this movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIRDX6GjFJQ
Who can recognize ?
Allowing mortgagors to freely refinance without TDSR considerations allows all parties to base the refinanced mortgage terms based on current market values. With TDSR imposed, inability to refinance imposes high interest payment even in a low interest environment. This is just one obvious area that people see.
Do check out the real meaning of refinance. There are many other strategies that can be adopted to derive value.
Not sure what you are talking about.
My understanding is that newbie11 is a mortgage broker, so if he says no banks will take over the Arachon's loan at that kind of tenure and TDSR indebtedness, I suppose he will know much better than you or me or most of anyone else here? :onthego:
Allowing mortgagors to freely refinance without TDSR considerations allows all parties to base the refinanced mortgage terms based on current market values. With TDSR imposed, inability to refinance imposes high interest payment even in a low interest environment. This is just one obvious area that people see.
Do check out the real meaning of refinance. There are many other strategies that can be adopted to derive value.
He is unlikely a mortgage broker.
Are you really a mortgage broker Newbie11?
If so, please explain the differences in meaning between the refinancing allowed in most countries worldwide and this refinancing allowance by MAS. If they only allow repricing, why call it refinancing?
Not sure what you are talking about.
My understanding is that newbie11 is a mortgage broker, so if he says no banks will take over the Arachon's loan at that kind of tenure and TDSR indebtedness, I suppose he will know much better than you or me or most of anyone else here? :onthego:
I thought he had already mentioned that the issue is with the banks?
Give you an example, MAS allow LTV 80% doesn't mean that the bank will definitely loan you up to 80%, e.g. for properties in Geylang they won't.
Similarly, MAS allow refinancing doesn't mean another bank will want to take over your risky loan at the same tenure and same LTV and same outstanding quantum (for that same loan you have with your current bank)........ :doh:
He is unlikely a mortgage broker.
Are you really a mortgage broker Newbie11?
If so, please explain the differences in meaning between the refinancing allowed in most countries worldwide and this refinancing allowance by MAS. If they only allow repricing, why call it refinancing?
A loan is considered risky only if the mortgagor has proven to have poor credit (unable to service loan regularly).
There are already no TDSR checks when refinancing. The proof of ability to service loan regularly is sufficient.
I thought he had already mentioned that the issue is with the banks?
Give you an example, MAS allow LTV 80% doesn't mean that the bank will definitely loan you up to 80%, e.g. for properties in Geylang they won't.
Similarly, MAS allow refinancing doesn't mean another bank will want to take over your risky loan at the same tenure and same LTV and same outstanding quantum (for that same loan you have with your current bank)........ :doh:
Whether a person has poor credit or not is up to the banks, not up to us or to MAS.
May be MAS now has no regulation regarding TDSR checks when refinancing, but I suppose banks now think TDSR is a very good idea to implement internally, so MAS said no regulation, banks think they better be careful and screen out those with too high TDSR? (because next recession is coming soon.............)
A loan is considered risky only if the mortgagor has proven to have poor credit (unable to service loan regularly).
There are already no TDSR checks when refinancing. The proof of ability to service loan regularly is sufficient.
1. If a retiree has no income but 1 million in the bank and CPF, and a 1-million mortgage loan, is he high risk?
2. If a person who qualified for a 1-million mortgage with say 10K income suffers a 30% fall in income to 7K, but fully able to service his mortgage with cash and CPF with no lapses in payment, is he high risk?
3. If someone's rental units (bought years ago) say at 600k with at least 20% paid up, and price appreciation of 30% or more fully generates the rent for the mortgage payment necessary to pay his loan with interests and surpluses, what risk is the bank taking by taking over his mortgage? Worst case scenario, the bank takes over a 400k loan for a property valued at 800k or more. Unless you want to harp about that property dropping below 400k in price...
Whether a person has poor credit or not is up to the banks, not up to us or to MAS.
May be MAS now has no regulation regarding TDSR checks when refinancing, but I suppose banks now think TDSR is a very good idea to implement internally, so MAS said no regulation, banks think they better be careful and screen out those with too high TDSR? (because next recession is coming soon.............)
One more important note. Banks will never be more stringent than MAS allows them to be. In fact, recent evidence has indicated that they have committed to much riskier loans than all of the above. Much riskier by hundreds of %.
Whether a person has poor credit or not is up to the banks, not up to us or to MAS.
May be MAS now has no regulation regarding TDSR checks when refinancing, but I suppose banks now think TDSR is a very good idea to implement internally, so MAS said no regulation, banks think they better be careful and screen out those with too high TDSR? (because next recession is coming soon.............)
One more important note. Banks will never be more stringent than MAS allows them to be. In fact, recent evidence has indicated that they have committed to much riskier loans than all of the above. Much riskier by hundreds of %.
I can imagine only rich people lining up to refinance their loan to get lower monthly payments. It wouldn't be fair. The rich only get richer.
I can imagine only rich people lining up to refinance their loan to get lower monthly payments. It wouldn't be fair. The rich only get richer.
Over the weekend, in my small talk with two sets of young parents (under 40s), with HDBs that have MOP for some time, both indicated their current strong intention to buy a private property now.
The thing is, both have been the strongest critics against private property half a year to a year ago when I urged them (both with household income above HDB limits) to commit. Right now, everyone is acting rather than waiting.
Why not act while others are waiting? Why must wait until everybody cheong then go in?
Why I mentioned these three groups is that these three profiles have the highest likelihood to have let go of their properties from 2013-2016. Especially the first two groups who are concerned about being stuck with high interest rates while the rest of the population pays lower interest rates. The third group, as Arcachon has shown, has other means to cope and make up even if cannot refinance.
Even the first two groups are likely to be off the selling market already by now.
1. If a retiree has no income but 1 million in the bank and CPF, and a 1-million mortgage loan, is he high risk?
2. If a person who qualified for a 1-million mortgage with say 10K income suffers a 30% fall in income to 7K, but fully able to service his mortgage with cash and CPF with no lapses in payment, is he high risk?
3. If someone's rental units (bought years ago) say at 600k with at least 20% paid up, and price appreciation of 30% or more fully generates the rent for the mortgage payment necessary to pay his loan with interests and surpluses, what risk is the bank taking by taking over his mortgage? Worst case scenario, the bank takes over a 400k loan for a property valued at 800k or more. Unless you want to harp about that property dropping below 400k in price...
My friend who bought Botannia recently told me banks are giving very good promotion rates now.
Allow me to bring all of us back to Jan 2016, a few month after Southbank TOP.
Received email from banker asking me whether interested to cash out after CSC.
April 2016, Fly back to Singapore, took the money and start looking for property.
Bought my 3 bedroom PH June 2016 and take another loan.
Was told by the banker, the bank setup up 4 teams to look for the owner interested in cashing out before the window is close by MAS.
MAS lost control on the Bank lending until MAS setup TDSR for the bank to follow else you know I know what they will do.
Allow me to bring all of us back to Jan 2016, a few month after Southbank TOP.
Received email from banker asking me whether interested to cash out after CSC.
April 2016, Fly back to Singapore, took the money and start looking for property.
Bought my 3 bedroom PH June 2016 and take another loan.
Was told by the banker, the bank setup up 4 teams to look for the owner interested in cashing out before the window is close by MAS.
MAS lost control on the Bank lending until MAS setup TDSR for the bank to follow else you know I know what they will do.
Bro Arcachon
Wa,congrats! U bought another property in June?
60% financing on your new property should not be a problem as it is asset based lending so even if your income cannot be qualified, we are still able to grant you the loan in light of the substantial upfront.
Bro Arcachon
Wa,congrats! U bought another property in June?
correction June 2011, the year is 2011 not 2016.
Now TDSR where got the chance to buy some more.
If the bank can loan me money, I will go and buy property.
Exactly what I meant. Recognition of asset. No other income required.
In some countries 20% downpayment can refinance in any way one chooses. Length of lease, equity withdrawal etc.
Banks earn, mortgagors earn, only buyer sian becos no resale and new sales price keeps blooming. But here the working are a little more complex. We shall see very soon what the implications are when new figures for September are released.
60% financing on your new property should not be a problem as it is asset based lending so even if your income cannot be qualified, we are still able to grant you the loan in light of the substantial upfront.
Where people are selling.
In a Great Singapore Sale (GSS), where do you buy?
If rewind back to 2009, what would you buy?
With your funds, where can you buy?
How many sf can you buy?
Anyone selling?
So many selling... Haha.. Cannot find buyers.
Timing is important. Cannot anyhow buy.
Of course, you are a seasoned player in property. Just my feel.
During 2009 the base price for ocr condos was around 580psf for 3 bedroom. 2005 was around 480psf. What will be the base price for 2017?
So many selling... Haha.. Cannot find buyers.
Timing is important. Cannot anyhow buy.
Of course, you are a seasoned player in property. Just my feel.
That's why I always find it very very odd.
Everyone says that there are many sellers.
But I asked 100 persons, not even 1 person is really selling especially if the price is not good. Everyone I talk to is looking to buy, waiting to buy, buy next year, see how it goes first but will look for opportunities. Maybe because the people I ask are generally quite young (below 45). I don't even know 1 real seller. The last one I know cashed out sometime in 2010 or 2011 I believe.
Even the people whom I know personally who are premium HDB location owners, they are also not really selling but are looking to buy. Maybe selected outskirts HDB owners are selling to upgrade but that's about ti...
The other reason is the people I interact with are generally HDB upgraders and OCR owners. Maybe CCR can find more genuine sellers.
If you are genuinely selling do let us know.
A loan is considered risky only if the mortgagor has proven to have poor credit (unable to service loan regularly).
There are already no TDSR checks when refinancing. The proof of ability to service loan regularly is sufficient.
try refinance your loan with no income
1. If a retiree has no income but 1 million in the bank and CPF, and a 1-million mortgage loan, is he high risk?
2. If a person who qualified for a 1-million mortgage with say 10K income suffers a 30% fall in income to 7K, but fully able to service his mortgage with cash and CPF with no lapses in payment, is he high risk?
3. If someone's rental units (bought years ago) say at 600k with at least 20% paid up, and price appreciation of 30% or more fully generates the rent for the mortgage payment necessary to pay his loan with interests and surpluses, what risk is the bank taking by taking over his mortgage? Worst case scenario, the bank takes over a 400k loan for a property valued at 800k or more. Unless you want to harp about that property dropping below 400k in price...
Well it's up to the banks credit team to assess. What we think is irrelevant. Tdsr exemption does not mean no tdsr.
The truth is a mortgage is ultimately still a loan and has to be serviced. TDSR exemption is not loan exemption.
But the banks are now freer to negotiate loan quantum, tenure and rates with borrowers without MAS restrictions.
If an individual has no money and no income, even he will want to cash out.
If one has 500k or 1 mil servicing a 1 million loan, or a few rental properties supporting, that's a different story.
What one bank snubs, another will grab.
Well it's up to the banks credit team to assess. What we think is irrelevant. Tdsr exemption does not mean no tdsr.
Initially I had thought that MAS was only giving a temporary lifeline for previous gen mortgagees to hold the market if they believe in it.
But the exemption is Broadstroke and not only exempts the Post-TDSR mortgagors from 2013 to 2016, but also all current future buyers.
This will reset the trajectory back to 2013 uptrend. Remember that TDSR success was not fully due to pegging to income, but also psychological fear of not being able to refinance. And the Govt has just removed this fear.
Initially I had thought that MAS was only giving a temporary lifeline for previous gen mortgagees to hold the market if they believe in it.
But the exemption is Broadstroke and not only exempts the Post-TDSR mortgagors from 2013 to 2016, but also all current future buyers.
This will reset the trajectory back to 2013 uptrend. Remember that TDSR success was not fully due to pegging to income, but also psychological fear of not being able to refinance. And the Govt has just removed this fear.
I HOPE PRICE WILL GO UP BUT I DOUBT IT
Many areas have been holding up well recently. Resales have been on 3 or 4 months uptrend already. All the other CMs combined were quite futile against price rises if you remember the period before 2013.
We can definitely afford to wait some more, but GSS will end once developer units start to move.
I HOPE PRICE WILL GO UP BUT I DOUBT IT
During 2009 the base price for ocr condos was around 580psf for 3 bedroom. 2005 was around 480psf. What will be the base price for 2017?
Land price should be a good guide to buy. But don't think got chance to buy.
Exactly what I meant. Recognition of asset. No other income required.
In some countries 20% downpayment can refinance in any way one chooses. Length of lease, equity withdrawal etc.
Banks earn, mortgagors earn, only buyer sian becos no resale and new sales price keeps blooming. But here the working are a little more complex. We shall see very soon what the implications are when new figures for September are released.
Not really assets only, income also. Last time no haircut so other income also can.
I HOPE PRICE WILL GO UP BUT I DOUBT IT
Wait till they say Marina Area leasehold 30 years.
Wait till they say Marina Area leasehold 30 years.
My friend saw a landed house empty for 20 years, selling way way below market .. he is not sure whether to buy cos heard it is haunted.
My friend saw a landed house empty for 20 years, selling way way below market .. he is not sure whether to buy cos heard it is haunted.
Possibly very short lease left?
Murder scene? Really got offer below market or just hearsay read Property portals???
Anyway no details nobody knows for sure.
I only read that people bid in auctions get a Pine Grove unit for 900K +- is already a very very good steal. Can beat that kind of price?
Some landed owners keep their house empty waiting for appreciation. I hope the Govt tax them heavily. Houses are for people to stay and contribute to the economy.
Possibly very short lease left?
Murder scene? Really got offer below market or just hearsay read Property portals???
Anyway no details nobody knows for sure.
I only read that people bid in auctions get a Pine Grove unit for 900K +- is already a very very good steal. Can beat that kind of price?
Some landed owners keep their house empty waiting for appreciation. I hope the Govt tax them heavily. Houses are for people to stay and contribute to the economy.
I am just sharing what I was told.... no need to give details. Up to one to read or dont believe. nothing to gain or lose here la. dont need to prove anything. Relax la
My friend saw a landed house empty for 20 years, selling way way below market .. he is not sure whether to buy cos heard it is haunted.
Remeber the sentosa cove bungalow where a lady drown in the swimming pool?
sold also
I am just excited and happy for those who managed to get good deals and treasure them.
One swallow does not a summer make.
Worse still, I don't even see one swallow. Only see eagles and falcons.
I am just sharing what I was told.... no need to give details. Up to one to read or dont believe. nothing to gain or lose here la. dont need to prove anything. Relax la
OK this one advertised:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/19760712/for-sale-lorong-3-geylang?ref=ls%7Cnormal%7C1%7C1
144psf only! Selling at 130K, below half the price of its neighbour (280K)!
3-4 years rent at maybe 3K per month. Extremely low ABSD (maybe 10K) to pay. Only full cash and CPF deal need apply.
I wonder what would happened after the 99years leased expired ... government take back?
I am tempted to buy actually ... just for the kick!
Should be Govt take back unless some kind of bizarre enbloc situation arises.
If got spare cash can consider the mickey mouse landed instead. Selling for 300+k.
There is 1 at Paya Lebar Crescent. Left 44 years lease as advertised. At least still can use a bit of CPF.
Caveat emptor.
I wonder what would happened after the 99years leased expired ... government take back?
I am tempted to buy actually ... just for the kick!
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/singapore-property-listing/property-for-sale?market=residential&property_type_code%5B%5D=TERRA&property_type_code%5B%5D=DETAC&property_type_code%5B%5D=SEMI&property_type_code%5B%5D=CORN&property_type_code%5B%5D=LBUNG&property_type_code%5B%5D=BUNG&property_type_code%5B%5D=SHOPH&property_type_code%5B%5D=RLAND&property_type_code%5B%5D=TOWN&property_type_code%5B%5D=CON&property_type_code%5B%5D=LCLUS&property_type=L&maxprice=300000
$144 psf of land with 4 more years lease left?
4 more years to go wanting to sell for $140k or about $3k pm for a built-up size of 721 sqft?
If this is a FH means want to sell at $3564 psf of land?
Wow!
Over-valued lah!
Come to think of it, if this terrace house is not 99LH with 4 years lease left but a FH, it would be worth >$1.35M (and think about it, the purchase price when new for FH and 99 years LH is only like 20% premium only!) :triumphant:
OK this one advertised:
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/19760712/for-sale-lorong-3-geylang?ref=ls%7Cnormal%7C1%7C1
144psf only! Selling at 130K, below half the price of its neighbour (280K)!
3-4 years rent at maybe 3K per month. Extremely low ABSD (maybe 10K) to pay. Only full cash and CPF deal need apply.
I am just sharing what I was told.... no need to give details. Up to one to read or dont believe. nothing to gain or lose here la. dont need to prove anything. Relax la
On the contrary there is much to lose by giving details. Others not perturbed by so-called haunting can swoop in and snap up the good deal.
MAS has said it clearly. There will be NO easing of the TAX and LTV measures.
Only those with existing loans will be supported so they do not need to sell their homes or investments cheaply. Those who want to buy will either be exempted (first time buyer) or pay the relevant taxes (multiple buyers). Either can afford and willing to buy and just buy or otherwise sit back and find other means.
Exactly as what many of us have been saying for months to years. Any more questions?
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2016/9/135050/mas-wont-ease-property-cooling-measures-anytime-soon
MAS won’t ease property cooling measures anytime soon
Romesh Navaratnarajah • September 7, 2016
Singapore's Skyline
The revised mortgage refinancing rules do not represent an easing of the property cooling measures, said MAS Managing Director Ravi Menon.
The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) will not ease the property cooling measures which have caused home prices to drop by almost 10 percent anytime soon, reported Bloomberg.
MAS Managing Director Ravi Menon explained that last week’s relaxation of mortgage refinancing rules by the central bank is aimed at easing the debt burdens of homeowners, and not create demand for new home loans.
“This doesn’t represent an easing at all,” he said. “If you look for a prop up to the market, this is not going to help as it doesn’t apply to new loans. This is to improve financial prudence without creating new demand for housing loans. We won’t ease anytime soon.”
Last week, the MAS announced that households refinancing their existing mortgages would be exempted from the 60 percent cap under the Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) framework. However, the exemption only applies to owner-occupiers.
Home sales and prices in Singapore have slowed since the government introduced housing curbs in 2009, with some of the strictest measures introduced in 2013, including higher stamp duties on residential acquisitions and the TDSR framework.
The authorities have repeatedly said they are not ready to ease the curbs, despite rising unemployment and slowing economic growth. Home values in the city-state have fallen by 9.4 percent from its peak in 2013.
There is also an error in the propertyguru report. The exemption applies to all home owners with additional conditions for investment owners.
The banks need borrowers and they want the "best collateral" in the world which is SG properties.
In my opinion the gov is effectively protecting the price of the OCR where most of the leverage folks are. With gov infrastructures spending in OCR on the line, nothing will stop the transformation.
Welcome to the real world of money printing, now they can print as much as they want.
OCR private property prices will crash in coming recession, regardless of what they do....
Very simple reason: because it is now at historically highest level ever since Singapore come into existence!
In my opinion the gov is effectively protecting the price of the OCR where most of the leverage folks are. With gov infrastructures spending in OCR on the line, nothing will stop the transformation.
OCR private property prices will crash in coming recession, regardless of what they do....
Very simple reason: because it is now at historically highest level ever since Singapore come into existence!
Historically chicken rice price was $1.50. Since money printing begun now $5.00.
https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13528907_10207811681902915_7403415846923059245_n.jpg?oh=d3441039d85f53f4346e1f5568b48413&oe=5839ED99
https://fbcdn-photos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfl1/v/t1.0-0/p206x206/14237745_10208356754769396_8435651864909172342_n.jpg?oh=06b19709d1be3d2b64bfdf24a13d9d97&oe=584D4B53&__gda__=1484305101_d68ee04edb9089a8ca8d9b00475f2cf3
https://www.facebook.com/news.ebc/videos/1202735289761560/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
Don't worry this will never happen to Singapore, Singapore got a lot of land to build.
bargain hunter
07-09-16, 20:50
a buyer upped the bid for my friend's OCR condo today by 6%
Amber Woods
07-09-16, 20:53
If we look at this tweak objectively, it is not a good sign. The government foresees that there will be more job lost with the slowing economy over the next few years. The tweak is to help more people to refinance their loans at current low interest rate and possibly restructure their loans through refinancing without the burden of TDSR.
If we look at this tweak objectively, it is not a good sign. The government foresees that there will be more job lost with the slowing economy over the next few years. The tweak is to help more people to refinance their loans at current low interest rate and possibly restructure their loans through refinancing without the burden of TDSR.
U mean the gov intentionally asking the people to hold down to depreciating assets?
You are right, what good do they have when the property price crash.
If you have been following what they say, they don't want a crash and also don't want the price to rise too high. They want sustainable property price.
They have alway remind us, the land sale is going to the reserve and if they don't get the price they want they are not selling.
So land cost can never go down.
Next, they say they need to reduce foreign worker,
So the labour cost cannot reduce.
Everyone also wants to print money, so everyone also building.
So material cost cannot reduce.
Got money don't buy property but waiting for crash ??????
I got only 108,000 and buy property like no tomorrow until MAS have to step in to stop.
Amber Woods
07-09-16, 21:23
It is all about how we want to look at the tweak; either objectively or subjectively.
Wow that was 3 years ago since they have TDSR, don't know when will the property crash.
http://www.mas.gov.sg/news-and-publications/media-releases/2013/mas-introduces-debt-servicing-framework-for-property-loans.aspx
MAS Introduces Debt Servicing Framework for Property Loans
Singapore, 28 June 2013 … The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) will introduce a Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) framework for all property loans granted by financial institutions (FIs) to individuals1. This will require FIs to take into consideration borrowers’ other outstanding debt obligations when granting property loans. They will help strengthen credit underwriting practices by FIs and encourage financial prudence among borrowers.
2 MAS will also refine rules related to the application of the existing Loan-to-Value (LTV) limits on housing loans. These refinements seek to ensure the effectiveness of the LTV limits that were put in place to cool investment demand in the housing market. In particular, they aim to prevent circumvention of the tighter LTV limits on second and subsequent housing loans.
https://s3-ap-southeast-1.amazonaws.com/static.streetsine/CoolingMeasure/Overall_Resale_HD-min.jpg
When will the property crash?
Nobody knows, can only speculate that it will be some time after 2019.................
However, it is just a matter of WHEN the property price crash (especially for OCR since they are now at highest historical level since Singapore come into existence), not WHETHER property price will crash or not in future.......... :eagerness:
Boom and bust cycles, you think Singapore property prices can escape that? :highly_amused:
Wow that was 3 years ago since they have TDSR, don't know when will the property crash.
http://www.mas.gov.sg/news-and-publications/media-releases/2013/mas-introduces-debt-servicing-framework-for-property-loans.aspx
MAS Introduces Debt Servicing Framework for Property Loans
Singapore, 28 June 2013 … The Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) will introduce a Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) framework for all property loans granted by financial institutions (FIs) to individuals1. This will require FIs to take into consideration borrowers’ other outstanding debt obligations when granting property loans. They will help strengthen credit underwriting practices by FIs and encourage financial prudence among borrowers.
2 MAS will also refine rules related to the application of the existing Loan-to-Value (LTV) limits on housing loans. These refinements seek to ensure the effectiveness of the LTV limits that were put in place to cool investment demand in the housing market. In particular, they aim to prevent circumvention of the tighter LTV limits on second and subsequent housing loans.
https://s3-ap-southeast-1.amazonaws.com/static.streetsine/CoolingMeasure/Overall_Resale_HD-min.jpg
No one can talk the market up or down.
In 2013, it was inevitable that market would trend down due to over leveraging. We have had a slimming diet for three years. Busted as far as bust can go. Weak and severe over leveragers have all been taken out by tdsr and fear.
What remains are the Warriors. With the govt now supporting them, plus new entrants all clearing the tdsr framework, the truly objective will know what is coming.
We don't have to go far, just look at late 1997 property price bust, and after that Singapore Government came out with all kind of property HEATING measures, but they just won't work (so Government can't do much - don't be fooled!) and property prices continue drop almost 50% from 1997 peak, until 8+ LONG YEARS before property prices start to recover in early 2006...........
Now OCR private property prices are at their historical high (so much higher than 1997), highest ever since Singapore come into existence, and people still thinking OCR private property prices can go much higher (before they crash first for another say 3-8+ years)? :highly_amused:
No one can talk the market up or down.
In 2013, it was inevitable that market would trend down due to over leveraging. We have had a slimming diet for three years. Weak and severe over leveragers have all been taken out by tdsr and fear.
What remains are the Warriors. With the govt now supporting them, plus new entrants all clearing the tdsr framework, the truly objective will know what is coming.
Yes yes, of course!
My favourite time when coffee costed 60c and average salary was 2500. Petrol was about 90c or 1 dollar?
Now coffee starts from 1.20 and average salary is 5000.
We don't have to go far, just look at late 1997 property price bust, and after that Singapore Government came out with all kind of property HEATING measures, but they just won't work (so Government can't do much - don't be fooled!) and property prices continue drop almost 50% from 1997 peak, until 8+ LONG YEARS before property prices start to recover in early 2006...........
Now OCR private property prices are at their historical high (so much higher than 1997), highest ever since Singapore come into existence, and people still thinking OCR private property prices can go much higher (before they crash first for another say 3-8+ years)? :highly_amused:
Oh ho ho, in 1998, property price crash like 25% from 1997, and are you telling us that coffee costed $1.00 in 1997 and 75c in 1998? :highly_amused:
Not only that, property price continue to drop till late 2005! Did coffee price drop further till 50c in 2005?
The answer is obvious! Oh no no, FOOD PRICES continue to go UP (or ingredients become smaller) but PROPERTY PRICES continue to go DOWN! :beaten:
Yes yes, of course!
My favourite time when coffee costed 60c and average salary was 2500. Petrol was about 90c or 1 dollar?
Now coffee starts from 1.20 and average salary is 5000.
We don't have to go far, just look at late 1997 property price bust, and after that Singapore Government came out with all kind of property HEATING measures, but they just won't work (so Government can't do much - don't be fooled!) and property prices continue drop almost 50% from 1997 peak, until 8+ LONG YEARS before property prices start to recover in early 2006...........
Now OCR private property prices are at their historical high (so much higher than 1997), highest ever since Singapore come into existence, and people still thinking OCR private property prices can go much higher (before they crash first for another say 3-8+ years)? :highly_amused:
And nowadays the market and people behave interestingly.
Bad data, Dow and SGX spikes. Good data, Dow and SGX dips.
1997 USD Libor rate
http://www.global-rates.com/interest-rates/libor/american-dollar/1997.aspx
Switch to max view to see interest rate levels in 1997
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapore/interest-rate
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/interest-rate
bargain hunter
08-09-16, 09:24
a buyer upped the bid for my friend's OCR condo today by 6%
upped to +8% and deal closed.
upped to +8% and deal closed.
Wise buyer and seller.
Fence sitters should be on high alert for fast and furious action.
Govt is unlikely to do anything unless price moves beyond 20 % minimum. Don't cry this cry that then.
bargain hunter
08-09-16, 09:51
Wise buyer and seller.
Fence sitters should be on high alert for fast and furious action.
Govt is unlikely to do anything unless price moves beyond 20 % minimum. Don't cry this cry that then.
seller needed to upgrade from 3 bedroom to 4 bedroom, buyer seems to be in an urgent need to buy.
bargain hunter
08-09-16, 09:54
net profit "only" $93k for holding 4 years while it was being built. agent/co-broke demanded 1% each!
net profit "only" $93k for holding 4 years while it was being built. agent/co-broke demanded 1% each!
I am in similar shoes as the seller. Thinking to sell a 3Bedder to buy a 4Bedder too. Not daring enough previously.
But then, come to think of it, The seller probably put in no more than 300K or 400K (all in) into the property. The gain is very substantial loh, definitely beats most stocks and definitely CPF.
bargain hunter
08-09-16, 11:43
I am in similar shoes as the seller. Thinking to sell a 3Bedder to buy a 4Bedder too. Not daring enough previously.
But then, come to think of it, The seller probably put in no more than 300K or 400K (all in) into the property. The gain is very substantial loh, definitely beats most stocks and definitely CPF.
yup, just that his original intention was to buy for own stay, not flip. so bro, r u daring enough now? :)
yup, just that his original intention was to buy for own stay, not flip. so bro, r u daring enough now? :)
Have continued to save since that period bought. With the new funds can indeed qualify to upgrade. But still in SSD period so maybe wait a while more.
Should ultimately be for own stay as well. If for rental 3BR is big enough, maybe too big.
3BR is big enough for the time being in my current place as well.
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