View Full Version : How to convene early AGM. Just TOP-ed 2 months ago.
Hi all. Would like to know from experienced members on how residents can serve a formal letter to achieve early AGM. We understand that we have to get 10% of SP's signature requesting for it but is there a formal way to do it? Please advice!
Normally the first year is run by the Developer appointed MA. Why do you want to have early AGM?
Running a council is not an easy job - regardless of the fact it is not paid.
People may soon run out of enthusiasm.
Suggest you read this if you haven't done so:
https://www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf
The first AGM:
The agenda of the first AGM must include the following.
♦ To elect a council
♦ To determine the amount of contributions for the management fund
and sinking fund
♦ To decide whether insurances effected by the developer should be
varied or extended
♦ To decide the matters that are to be determined only at a general meet-
ing
♦ To appoint a managing agent and to determine the powers, duties or
functions of the MC to be delegated to the managing agent
♦ To adopt the audited account from the date the MC is constituted and
ending on a date not earlier than four months before the first AGM
My suggestion is to let the developer run the full one year, so you have a baseline to compare your future accounts.
You will have plenty of opportunities to serve - how many people can consistently do a free of charge job for years?
I have seen team shrinking from the initial 15 to just 3!
The current security industry practice of 2 x 12 hours shifts rather than 3 x 8 hours shifts makes security to be one of the biggest headaches.
You will understand what I mean when your MCST has changed 5+ security companies.
So why don't you save another 10 months of headache when the law requires developer to take care of it?
2x12 hours or 3x8 hours, all are going to be a problem because of the issues with the quality of the security guards and the security companies.......... :cower:
Companies can change to 3x8 hours, and then pay like 8 (hrs)/12 (hrs) of current pay to each guard, difficult to get good guards too..........
The current security industry practice of 2 x 12 hours shifts rather than 3 x 8 hours shifts makes security to be one of the biggest headaches.
You will understand what I mean when your MCST has changed 5+ security companies.
So why don't you save another 10 months of headache when the law requires developer to take care of it?
You might get different guards with 3 x 8 hrs, possibly senior locals.
Im sorry all. I think you guys misunderstand my question. Residents have intention to have an early AGM because there are numerous defects and issues with the common facilities which the developers refuse to answer. They are trying to wait for the csc payment to themselves so they can shirk responsibility. Only through an AGM would there be required to face us and our questions. Hope you guys can advice appropriately.
Normally the first year is run by the Developer appointed MA. Why do you want to have early AGM?
Im sorry all. I think you guys misunderstand my question. Residents have intention to have an early AGM because there are numerous defects and issues with the common facilities which the developers refuse to answer. They are trying to wait for the csc payment to themselves so they can shirk responsibility. Only through an AGM would there be required to face us and our questions. Hope you guys can advice appropriately.
Running a council is not an easy job - regardless of the fact it is not paid.
People may soon run out of enthusiasm.
Suggest you read this if you haven't done so:
https://www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf
Im sorry all. I think you guys misunderstand my question. Residents have intention to have an early AGM because there are numerous defects and issues with the common facilities which the developers refuse to answer. They are trying to wait for the csc payment to themselves so they can shirk responsibility. Only through an AGM would there be required to face us and our questions. Hope you guys can advice appropriately.
My suggestion is to let the developer run the full one year, so you have a baseline to compare your future accounts.
You will have plenty of opportunities to serve - how many people can consistently do a free of charge job for years?
I have seen team shrinking from the initial 15 to just 3!
Hope you have seen my response. You sound very experience. Would hope to know more from you. Our residents are frustrated with the terrible common facilities and workmanship.
It's unfortunate that you need to face the developer for the bad workmanship.
Well, the first thing is to have a solid team to form the council. You need people from construction, legal and accounting background.
And above all, you need committed people: the law doesn't allow council members to be paid.
Once you have the team, you can source for MA.(Not the one appointed by the developer). MA will then be able to advise the next steps.
The key is to have a core team: 3 would be good enough. The others can be the supporting council members.
Feeling frustrated is one thing, winning a case is another. So far i don't see many cases MCST can win over the developer. Maybe social media is the way to go?
Hi all. Would like to know from experienced members on how residents can serve a formal letter to achieve early AGM. We understand that we have to get 10% of SP's signature requesting for it but is there a formal way to do it? Please advice!
First annual general meeting
The first AGM must be convened within one month after the end of the initial period or six weeks after the developer receives a written request from the subsidiary proprietors of at least 10% of the total number of lots in the development.
A notice must be served to each eligible SP together with a copy of the agenda of the AGM. If the developer does not convene the first AGM within the specified period, any SP or mortgagee in possession of a lot may apply to the COB to order the appointment of a person to convene the first AGM. The bottom line here is that there must be an AGM after the initial period.
https://www.bca.gov.sg/bmsm/others/strata_living.pdf
First need to gather 10% of the SP.
Do you have a facebook group, you can try to see if there are 10% SP agree to the AGM and how many willing to be the council member.
We have just kicked the Developer MA out and get our MA. Changing most of the contractor also.
NorthernStar
01-08-16, 10:44
You can call for EOGM with 10% signatures from the SPs.. submit the request form to the MA office and they will arrange the meeting to be called 1 or 2 months later as MA need to prepare reports/ avenue for such meeting.
Do remember that:
1. EOGM need quorum at least 30% of the total shares! This is important. Else the meeting will be called-off
2. All the EOGM cost will charged back to your condo maintenance fund. Make sure MA or developer don't choose a ulu place (to purposely miss the quorum) or expensive place to hold the meeting
3. Not all the SPs care about this. social media group may have many voices, but come to actions, all disappears.
But before you go for the EOGM option, if the common area defects really affecting the safety, you can report the defects and cc to BCA officer. Make sure all your SPs report all the defects to MA office and keep chasing MA when will the defects to be rectified. cc the email to MA's director in charge. Make sure MA document down the records and keep a copy for yourselves. common defects like water leaks should have 10years warranty, paint about 5years. Ask your MA to provide such info to SPs.
nowadays all new development comes with some kind of defects.
U need to engage a professional surveyor if u want to fight it out
with the developer.
So have you formed your leadership team now, it is best to check all the defects of common areas as early as possible, the 1st year is the best. Otherwise you can see million dollar claims for some projects years later, and I am still struggling to find a winning case.
Enjoy to be a proud owner!
If a defect is detected within one year of completion:
Ask the developer to fix it.
If a defect is found after one year but within six years after completion:
Check if the defect is covered by warranties provided by the developer.
Determine whether the defect is due to the developer. This can involve calling in a building expert.
If it is the developer's fault, ask the firm to fix it.
If the developer refuses, homeowners may consider suing the developer for breach of contract.
If the unit was bought on resale, the owner cannot sue for breach of contract but may be able to sue the developer on tort, which is breach of duty of care.
Suing the developer for breach of contract is seen as an easier option, as suits under tort allow the developer to offer the defence of having hired an independent contractor, for instance.
If a defect is found between the sixth and 15th year:
Homeowners may be able to sue the developer within three years after the date that they could have reasonably found out about the defect.
Building and legal experts may have to be called in to determine what is a reasonable date.
If a defect is found after 15 years:
Homeowners can no longer sue developers to fix defects and may have to work with the Management Corporation Strata Title to resolve the problem or fix it themselves.
- See more at: http://business.asiaone.com/news/what-do-if-you-find-building-defect#sthash.vurarrXU.dpuf
You can call for EOGM with 10% signatures from the SPs.. submit the request form to the MA office and they will arrange the meeting to be called 1 or 2 months later as MA need to prepare reports/ avenue for such meeting.
Do remember that:
1. EOGM need quorum at least 30% of the total shares! This is important. Else the meeting will be called-off
2. All the EOGM cost will charged back to your condo maintenance fund. Make sure MA or developer don't choose a ulu place (to purposely miss the quorum) or expensive place to hold the meeting
3. Not all the SPs care about this. social media group may have many voices, but come to actions, all disappears.
But before you go for the EOGM option, if the common area defects really affecting the safety, you can report the defects and cc to BCA officer. Make sure all your SPs report all the defects to MA office and keep chasing MA when will the defects to be rectified. cc the email to MA's director in charge. Make sure MA document down the records and keep a copy for yourselves. common defects like water leaks should have 10years warranty, paint about 5years. Ask your MA to provide such info to SPs.
Thanks for sharing. We were told we cannot call for EOGM UNLESS mcst is formed. which requires CSC. Basically theres no way to call it within a year. Is that true?
Just a reminder that an office bearer of MCST cannot resign without a replacement. He needs to wait until the next AGM/EAGM to resign if no one is willing to take over. And office bearers are not paid. So before you are attempting to kick out the current MA (they are paid), you need to find a committed team first. The other things can be learned along the way.
The amount of work (without pay) is much much more than you would have initially thought. That's why the drop off rate is extremely high (70% to 90% if not 100% - meaning you could end up with a situation that no one is willing to serve the council.)
May I know how many units are there in your project? How many owners are staying there?
The developer's MA may not be the best, but most of them are decent, you could end up with worse. It is very very hard to find a good MA with reasonable price. Maybe forumers can share some of the good MAs?
It is not true that you cannot kick them out within a year. But it is hard because you need to find a team (without pay) to fight with someone who are paid (and with years of experiences.)
So really, your team needs to have lawyer, developer, auditor, those type of background people, and yet they are willing to spend hundreds of hours per year FREE.
Good luck!
http://blog.moneysmart.sg/property/what-the-mcst-does-for-your-condo-and-how-to-spot-the-good-ones/
As a practical action item, you can start to compile a detailed list of all the defects. (It might be 10-20 pages long with hundreds of email exchanges for clarification.) These can be very useful document if you need to go to court years later - Many defects, in particular, water seepage will only come out years later.
Just this task could take you 2 hours a day, and burn your weekends to learn the building and construction terminologies.
May I know how many units are there in your project? How many owners are staying there?
Just saw your other post, you have 810 units. How many owners are staying there?
There are successful MCST hiring their own staff rather than use MA.
That developer has been in the news over the years if buyers have paid attention. Workmanship is getting from bad to worse, a prevailing trend across the industry.
LA FIESTA is a nice name.
http://www.data.com.sg/property/mainproj.fxp?cbldg=LA%20FIESTA&cformat=2&cid=data&r=566810865
Legislation has to be changed to fundamentally hold Developers accountable.
First some developer tried to argue that all SPs must sue developer together.
http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/laws-of-singapore/case-law/free-law/court-of-appeal-judgments/16881-management-corporation-strata-title-plan-no-1938-v-goodview-properties-pte-ltd-2000-sgca-56
Then court of Appel settled only 1st hand buyer can sue developer for breaching of contract, but only get their share (Very small portion).
http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/laws-of-singapore/case-law/cases-in-articles/building-and-construction/1403-management-corporation-strata-title-plan-no-2297-v-seasons-park-ltd-2005-2-slr-613-2005-sgca-16
Maybe the new media can do something！
"43 As would be apparent from our discussions on the first issue, for a buyer of a unit in a development to have a claim in contract against the developer, he must have purchased the property direct from the developer. If he should be a sub-purchaser, he would not have a claim in contract against the developer. However, there are ways to overcome this and it would depend on whether the project has been completed and title is legally passed to the original purchaser, and on whether the developer is agreeable to a novation agreement. In the alternative, the sub-purchaser could sue in contract if the original purchaser is willing to lend his name to being a co-plaintiff (subject always to the sub-purchaser indemnifying the original purchaser as to costs and other possible liabilities) to the action in contract. All these arrangements could be set out in the agreement for sub-sale from the original purchaser to the sub-purchaser, provided that the original purchaser is agreeable. At [32] above, we have also indicated that, for future developments, amending the standard sale and purchase agreement prescribed under the Housing Developers Rules could be a solution."
So has the Sales and purchase agreement been changed?
ELD is horrible. Our MA is as bad. Unresponsive, ineffective and just plain ignorant. We are being pushed to take up action externally already. ELD is just wasting everyone's time. If we show you our lift lobby you would be amazed to know it is of a private condo's
LA FIESTA is a nice name.
http://www.data.com.sg/property/mainproj.fxp?cbldg=LA%20FIESTA&cformat=2&cid=data&r=566810865
Legislation has to be changed to fundamentally hold Developers accountable.
First some developer tried to argue that all SPs must sue developer together.
http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/laws-of-singapore/case-law/free-law/court-of-appeal-judgments/16881-management-corporation-strata-title-plan-no-1938-v-goodview-properties-pte-ltd-2000-sgca-56
Then court of Appel settled only 1st hand buyer can sue developer for breaching of contract, but only get their share (Very small portion).
http://www.singaporelaw.sg/sglaw/laws-of-singapore/case-law/cases-in-articles/building-and-construction/1403-management-corporation-strata-title-plan-no-2297-v-seasons-park-ltd-2005-2-slr-613-2005-sgca-16
Maybe the new media can do something！
Thanks, LA fiesta is a nice name with a good location. Sadly it has been milked dry by EL Development. From a land suitable for 700 odd units, we got 810 units instead. Coupled with 6sqm big air con ledges which is twice the typical size. What we got is terrible service and a lack lustre development all in the name of maximising profits by ELD.
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