View Full Version : Don't know can tell them my story.
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Master Arcachon, majority dun like to listen to your successfully story lah , usually people like gossips , rumours and distorted stories. But if I would have heard your story in 2009-2011 I will huat liao or at least less resentful. sad
Very ungrateful person u r arcachon.
Without them renting hdb or condo in Singapore u think alot can survive with the loan? Old people can rent out hdb and retire.
Master Arcachon, majority dun like to listen to your successfully story lah , usually people like gossips , rumours and distorted stories. But if I would have heard your story in 2009-2011 I will huat liao or at least less resentful. sad
I was blessed to know one of my colleague bought a 2 Bedroom FH @ Geylang for SGD 420,000 in 2006.
I share with lot of people but not all are so blessed.
Some feel offended, some told me I like to boast while a few got into the boat and happy sailing.
One told me he cannot buy private because got HDB in 2007, I ask him who told him, he say his agent.
He went back Singapore bought a private(Simei EC), went china bought a few property after hearing my story.
Another told me he is saving a million dollar to buy landed, after hearing my story he went back Singapore buy private(8 @ Woodleigh) in 2009, now bought land in France and got builder to build his house.
I got a visit from a colleague from Singapore who hear my story, he went back sell his HDB bought a 3 Bedroom PH EC (Twin Waterfall).
He told me he don't understand in his office lot of people got lot of cash in CPF and staying in HDB.
One without much cash go India buy land and build shop house.
My sister-in-law bought commercial because cannot get private due to MOP and bought a few in China.
Those who are blessed are those who Hear, Learn and Action while others do everything except Hear, Learn and Action.
Hope my sharing can help more and I will feel more blessed.
I was blessed to know one of my colleague bought a 2 Bedroom FH @ Geylang for SGD 420,000 in 2006.
I share with lot of people but not all are so blessed.
Some feel offended, some told me I like to boast while a few got into the boat and happy sailing.
One told me he cannot buy private because got HDB in 2007, I ask him who told him, he say his agent.
He went back Singapore bought a private(Simei EC), went china bought a few property after hearing my story.
Another told me he is saving a million dollar to buy landed, after hearing my story he went back Singapore buy private(8 @ Woodleigh) in 2009, now bought land in France and got builder to build his house.
I got a visit from a colleague from Singapore who hear my story, he went back sell his HDB bought a 3 Bedroom PH EC (Twin Waterfall).
He told me he don't understand in his office lot of people got lot of cash in CPF and staying in HDB.
One without much cash go India buy land and build shop house.
My sister-in-law bought commercial because cannot get private due to MOP and bought a few in China.
Those who are blessed are those who Hear, Learn and Action while others do everything except Hear, Learn and Action.
Hope my sharing can help more and I will feel more blessed.
Master Arcachon ,忠言逆耳 , 凉药苦口 . What to do, that's life!
watchlist88
02-09-15, 13:11
Housing price to income ratio must always be proportional, otherwise it creates dissentment in the masses. They do not want to see themselves or their children having to slog and pay their entire life for the house leaving nothing for retirement. Fo those who were able to profit from the disproportional ratio in the years before the slew of cooling measures came in because the government did not keep a tight lid on things, you have stepped onto the right boat or had the acumen to make the move.
Moving forward, the government has realised that housing affordability is a very crucial aspect of governance after the last election, and I am sure they will continue to keep a close watch on things in case it gets out of hand. Till then, nobody can predict what the future holds !
Housing price to income ratio must always be proportional, otherwise it creates dissentment in the masses. They do not want to see themselves or their children having to slog and pay their entire life for the house leaving nothing for retirement. Fo those who were able to profit from the disproportional ratio in the years before the slew of cooling measures came in because the government did not keep a tight lid on things, you have stepped onto the right boat or had the acumen to make the move.
Moving forward, the government has realised that housing affordability is a very crucial aspect of governance after the last election, and I am sure they will continue to keep a close watch on things in case it gets out of hand. Till then, nobody can predict what the future holds !
Master WL88 , what you said is normally, usually ,generally but what I read were different, some Masters always said not time to buy, property prices crashing, oversupply , Govt intervention to press down market price etc etc. Like you said "nobody can predict what the future holds !"
It doesn't mean up or down or stable. Down when there is a black swan, Up when everything are smooth and steady, and stable because of govt intervention.
Masters please advise
Master WL88 , what you said is normally, usually ,generally but what I read were different, some Masters always said not time to buy, property prices crashing, oversupply , Govt intervention to press down market price etc etc. Like you said "nobody can predict what the future holds !"
It doesn't mean up or down or stable. Down when there is a black swan, Up when everything are smooth and steady, and stable because of govt intervention.
Masters please advise
Masters , or some Masters know that they have to die die press the property price to meet the income ratio within a time frame rather than gradually let the income ratio gap close up? From official data our home ownership is high they dun have to meet time frame isn't it. I went to meet MP session, the staff told me that in 2002 when property price was low many residents complained can't pay installment, now complain house too expensive.
watchlist88
02-09-15, 13:54
Hi Master Citizen, if you saw the 2014 video that Arcachon posted in another link about Minister Khaw saying that his ministry has to consider lots of variables when considering when is right time to relax or tighten housing policies, you are right to say that there is a lot of uncertainty or variables to be able to "predict the future" housing market. MND has got lots of statistical data and analysts to feed local and international info to him to decide, we are the ones at the bottom of the pack.
Given that there is a housing oversupply currently, impending interest rate hikes, tightening of foreign labour and immigration policies, global uncertainty regarding health of China's economy (may balloon into another Asian financial crisis, who knows ?), I will say park your money elsewhere first and wait for opportune moment. That could be many years down the years, who know ? I don't know either.
Housing price to income ratio must always be proportional, otherwise it creates dissentment in the masses. They do not want to see themselves or their children having to slog and pay their entire life for the house leaving nothing for retirement.
1988 - When I first bought my first 4 room HDB (smallest HDB), there is no such things as "Housing price to income ratio". It more on whether you want or don't want to buy.
I choose to buy with minimum CPF (SAF pay reduce CPF)and cash top up every month.
1995 - When I buy my 5 room HDB also don't have "Housing price to income ratio". It more on whether you want or don't want to buy.
I choose to buy with borrow money from my father and save on car and holidays. There are no MSR, CPF grant, Bank loan........
2006 - When I buy my 2 Bedroom (cheapest in the development) also don't have "Housing price to income ratio". It more on whether you can pay 20% and at that time 5% DPS.
I choose to buy.
They can only do so much, the rest is depend on individual what they want. Problem is some don't want and they also don't let other have.
They do not need to provide every family with 4 room HDB and they start to build 2 room HDB after 2011 election. Now everyone is happy.??????
Hi Master Citizen, if you saw the 2014 video that Arcachon posted in another link about Minister Khaw saying that his ministry has to consider lots of variables when considering when is right time to relax or tighten housing policies, you are right to say that there is a lot of uncertainty or variables to be able to "predict the future" housing market. MND has got lots of statistical data and analysts to feed local and international info to him to decide, we are the ones at the bottom of the pack.
Given that there is a housing oversupply currently, impending interest rate hikes, tightening of foreign labour and immigration policies, global uncertainty regarding health of China's economy (may balloon into another Asian financial crisis, who knows ?), I will say park your money elsewhere first and wait for opportune moment. That could be many years down the years, who know ? I don't know either.
Thanks for your reply Master WL88, in fact I parked my money any where except local property, I lost in gold, stock, foreign currencies ,unit trust ,insurance policies ,cars, JV business venture etc etc. Just regret never invested property.
Thanks for your reply Master WL88, in fact I parked my money any where except local property, I lost in gold, stock, foreign currencies ,unit trust ,insurance policies ,cars, JV business venture etc etc. Just regret never invested property.
All Masters , are gold, stock, foreign currencies ,unit trust ,insurance policies resilient to crises they are never oversupply and safe?
All Masters , are gold, stock, foreign currencies ,unit trust ,insurance policies resilient to crises they are never oversupply and safe?
They are under control by Big Fish, swim with care.
All the Masters , of course we can leave our money to the banks as FD, they use it to invest , when everything smooth , they pay us interest rate.
When some things happened ? look at Lehman ,Cyprus bank ,greek banks and 1997 Malaysia banks.
When you borrow a lot, Bank worry not you.
When you save a lot, You worry not the Bank.
Let me park my two cents on this.
The current situation is even if someone intends to buy, he/she/the family may still be curbed by the CMs especially TDSR and/or ABSD. Even though there is ABSD remission, my impression is that it has to be paid upfront while awaiting the remission after property is built.
For a significant group who qualify in income, they could still be limited by their existing debts (mortgages or cars). These may result in the inability to buy despite the touted increase in affordability due to the held prices over the years.
Therefore, writing as if everyone can buy but choose not to can be frustrating for some of these readers. But I agree that those who qualify in every aspect but still choose to wait for their money to appreciate might be waiting for a boat that never comes.
Thanks Master Arcachon and Kelonguni for your enlightenment, you are optimistic on property investments. But what I would like to hear is how they parked their money from those masters who are pessimistic on property investments. Or they just want to mislead and talk down property.
one man's meat is another man's poison.
http://blog.wenxuecity.com/blog/frontend.php?act=articlePrint&blogId=39903&date=201311&postId=6823
watchlist88
02-09-15, 17:25
Let me park my two cents on this.
The current situation is even if someone intends to buy, he/she/the family may still be curbed by the CMs especially TDSR and/or ABSD. Even though there is ABSD remission, my impression is that it has to be paid upfront while awaiting the remission after property is built.
For a significant group who qualify in income, they could still be limited by their existing debts (mortgages or cars). These may result in the inability to buy despite the touted increase in affordability due to the held prices over the years.
Therefore, writing as if everyone can buy but choose not to can be frustrating for some of these readers. But I agree that those who qualify in every aspect but still choose to wait for their money to appreciate might be waiting for a boat that never comes.
To add on about the ABSD, it really sucks big time because IRAS takes your $$$ and then returns you say 5 years later when house TOP. I could take this $$$ and invest myself over these 5 years, in short there is opportunity costs lost because IRAS don't pay you any interest at all for the 5 years. See my example simple calculations at different annualised returns of 5%, 7% and 10% :
$1m house = $70,000 ABSD (7% for Singaporeans buying 2nd property )
YEAR 5% returns 7% returns 10% returns
1 $73,500 $74,900 $77,000
2 $77,175 $80,143 $84,700
3 $81,034 $85,753 $93,170
4 $85,085 $91,756 $102,487
5 $89,340 $98,179 $112,736
That too. But my descriptions are more for the group that has not even saved up the 7% on top of the 20%.
It's quite a huge sum. $ 1 million property requires about 300k cash and CPF. Certainly beyond the reach of someone who has not worked more than several years.
To add on about the ABSD, it really sucks big time because IRAS takes your $$$ and then returns you say 5 years later when house TOP. I could take this $$$ and invest myself over these 5 years, in short there is opportunity costs lost because IRAS don't pay you any interest at all for the 5 years. See my example simple calculations at different annualised returns of 5%, 7% and 10% :
$1m house = $70,000 ABSD (7% for Singaporeans buying 2nd property )
YEAR 5% returns 7% returns 10% returns
1 $73,500 $74,900 $77,000
2 $77,175 $80,143 $84,700
3 $81,034 $85,753 $93,170
4 $85,085 $91,756 $102,487
5 $89,340 $98,179 $112,736
Another way to minimise this is to get a TOP property, resales, or one about to TOP. Then the 7% will not accumulate over years.
To add on about the ABSD, it really sucks big time because IRAS takes your $$$ and then returns you say 5 years later when house TOP. I could take this $$$ and invest myself over these 5 years, in short there is opportunity costs lost because IRAS don't pay you any interest at all for the 5 years. See my example simple calculations at different annualised returns of 5%, 7% and 10% :
$1m house = $70,000 ABSD (7% for Singaporeans buying 2nd property )
YEAR 5% returns 7% returns 10% returns
1 $73,500 $74,900 $77,000
2 $77,175 $80,143 $84,700
3 $81,034 $85,753 $93,170
4 $85,085 $91,756 $102,487
5 $89,340 $98,179 $112,736
My2¢. After more than 2 decades of 打工仔, observing and learning from those "orang kaya baru", there are those who have the "career luck" and those who have the "property or investment luck".
There are those who were very efficient, effective at work and often spotted for higher post and promotion. They will make their $ through these. However, there are those who are not on any fast track, but always savvy when it comes to investment, like Midas Touch. e.g. bought a first private during SARS, sold for almost $0.5M profit before Lehman, went it 2009 (Best ever for propty, stocks, even COE) like multiple MM units (grouped investment), TOP rental of $4~5k (~7 % yld until 2014 drop to 5%), cash out 1 in 2013 - in preparation for cash needy days.... Guess which is better?
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Actually both works as well in accumulation of wealth... important is to identify which is your strong areas for growth.... and choose that path ....
Good for if one chooses the one which assist to gain financial independence
The very capable tries to balance both on their own .... very tough, not impossible, may not do well at both as not focused ...
The wise one play to the strength of his or her own (MD, Senior Manager,CEO) tap on the strength of other experts (trusted agents) to do the rest..
Actually luck is also important just that we can't really control it.
Sometimes it's just one heng thing lead to another. Luck plus savvy or working hard/smart is important. Best is if all three present but very rare.
My2¢. After more than 2 decades of 打工仔, observing and learning from those "orang kaya baru", there are those who have the "career luck" and those who have the "property or investment luck".
There are those who were very efficient, effective at work and often spotted for higher post and promotion. They will make their $ through these. However, there are those who are not on any fast track, but always savvy when it comes to investment, like Midas Touch. e.g. bought a first private during SARS, sold for almost $0.5M profit before Lehman, went it 2009 (Best ever for propty, stocks, even COE) like multiple MM units (grouped investment), TOP rental of $4~5k (~7 % yld until 2014 drop to 5%), cash out 1 in 2013 - in preparation for cash needy days.... Guess which is better?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Actually both works as well in accumulation of wealth... important is to identify which is your strong areas for growth.... and choose that path ....
Good for if one chooses the one which assist to gain financial independence
The very capable tries to balance both on their own .... very tough, not impossible, may not do well at both as not focused ...
The wise one play to the strength of his or her own (MD, Senior Manager,CEO) tap on the strength of other experts (trusted agents) to do the rest..
watchlist88
03-09-15, 10:02
My2¢. After more than 2 decades of 打工仔, observing and learning from those "orang kaya baru", there are those who have the "career luck" and those who have the "property or investment luck".
There are those who were very efficient, effective at work and often spotted for higher post and promotion. They will make their $ through these. However, there are those who are not on any fast track, but always savvy when it comes to investment, like Midas Touch. e.g. bought a first private during SARS, sold for almost $0.5M profit before Lehman, went it 2009 (Best ever for propty, stocks, even COE) like multiple MM units (grouped investment), TOP rental of $4~5k (~7 % yld until 2014 drop to 5%), cash out 1 in 2013 - in preparation for cash needy days.... Guess which is better?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Actually both works as well in accumulation of wealth... important is to identify which is your strong areas for growth.... and choose that path ....
Good for if one chooses the one which assist to gain financial independence
The very capable tries to balance both on their own .... very tough, not impossible, may not do well at both as not focused ...
The wise one play to the strength of his or her own (MD, Senior Manager,CEO) tap on the strength of other experts (trusted agents) to do the rest..
Your 2 cents very valuable and wise indeed. Similar thoughts as me.
Let me share my 2 cents too with my own experience. I could have gone on to work my way up to senior management position back then as my boss recognised my contributions but decided enough of the work stress and lack of time to spend with wife and my young kids is not worth the sacrifice. Decided then that the best way to generate extra income was to focus and look at different types of investments and what suits my risk appetite. Read up on many investment books and researched to educate myself, because formal schooling does not teach about financial discipline and investment to the average person.
Rode through the ups and downs of the markets during Asian Financial Crisis, SARS, US Sep 11 attacks, US subprime crisis, EURO financial crisis, etc. The one big thing that I learned about investing all these years is that you need to be calm (know yourself well), control your emotions, do not panic and follow the herd if you have the holding power. Of course, don’t follow the herd and buy into everything too worse still at the peak, buy only when it is value for money. The same principles can be applied to investments in properties. I would say my investments had been giving me decent annualised returns around 7% to 10% all these years despite all the various crisis.
Steady and salute!
Your 2 cents very valuable and wise indeed. Similar thoughts as me.
Let me share my 2 cents too with my own experience. I could have gone on to work my way up to senior management position back then as my boss recognised my contributions but decided enough of the work stress and lack of time to spend with wife and my young kids is not worth the sacrifice. Decided then that the best way to generate extra income was to focus and look at different types of investments and what suits my risk appetite. Read up on many investment books and researched to educate myself, because formal schooling does not teach about financial discipline and investment to the average person.
Rode through the ups and downs of the markets during Asian Financial Crisis, SARS, US Sep 11 attacks, US subprime crisis, EURO financial crisis, etc. The one big thing that I learned about investing all these years is that you need to be calm (know yourself well), control your emotions, do not panic and follow the herd if you have the holding power. Of course, don’t follow the herd and buy into everything too worse still at the peak, buy only when it is value for money. The same principles can be applied to investments in properties. I would say my investments had been giving me decent annualised returns around 7% to 10% all these years despite all the various crisis.
Steady and salute!
Master Kelonguni and WL88, I didn't see any things extraordinary, my Parents and Parents in law made twice from their HDB flats. They were not even educated and dun even understood what were SARS, AFC, DOT.COM etc. Did Master WL88 park his money else where and made a lot of money or just Property again.
watchlist88
03-09-15, 11:32
Master Kelonguni and WL88, I didn't see any things extraordinary, my Parents and Parents in law made twice from their HDB flats. They were not even educated and dun even understood what were SARS, AFC, DOT.COM etc. Did Master WL88 park his money else where and made a lot of money or just Property again.
It is true that our parents generation had it good for property prices, whether HDB or private houses because Singapore progressed from 3rd world to 1st world in past 50 years. It went on a steep upwards curve as economy progressed and incomes rose. Now that we are already 1st world nation, there is the term called “point of diminishing returns with even much more efforts needed”. I akin it to an Olympic swimming champion trying to break his own record by just 0.5 second or 1 second but had to put in lots more commitment, training and discipline.
Look at the pricing of new BTO, EC or private houses now and I can only say IMHO that the upwards curve is going to be gradual if even at all to be affordable for majority, after the dust has settled over next few years. But like I said earlier, nobody can forsee the future it is just some educated guesses I suppose at this point as there are many factors affecting property prices, whether internal or external environment conditions.
For the record, I actually made my monies by parking in various instruments ranging from long term (for high risk types), medium term (average risk) to short term (low risk), not so much on property though.
It is true that our parents generation had it good for property prices, whether HDB or private houses because Singapore progressed from 3rd world to 1st world in past 50 years. It went on a steep upwards curve as economy progressed and incomes rose. Now that we are already 1st world nation, there is the term called “point of diminishing returns with even much more efforts needed”. I akin it to an Olympic swimming champion trying to break his own record by just 0.5 second or 1 second but had to put in lots more commitment, training and discipline.
Look at the pricing of new BTO, EC or private houses now and I can only say IMHO that the upwards curve is going to be gradual if even at all to be affordable for majority, after the dust has settled over next few years. But like I said earlier, nobody can forsee the future it is just some educated guesses I suppose at this point as there are many factors affecting property prices, whether internal or external environment conditions.
What I see now is the same when they start to build the circle line. I told myself when the circle line is operating the price of the property will increase.
What we have now is controlled property price, leave it to free market and the price will not be so low.
LKY did a lot of good things but things may be different when they start to lose even with all the good things given to the people.
Money have to come from somewhere and the future of property price is going to be up.
Olympic swimming champion is limited by the rule same as property limited by CM.
Remove the rule, new record will be broken.
Master WL88 thank you for your reply. I have tried many investment instruments but none beat all those I know who have invested in local properties. From what I know, some are not even educated not to mention wise and savvy. Just blindly buy once they have the money. Can we simply say that property investment dun really need smart , wise and educated. It is a non sophisticated and intricate investment instrument, so long you have money and confidence. Perhaps you know better. I 'm here to learn. Thank You.
Master WL88 thank you for your reply. I have tried many investment instruments but none beat all those I know who have invested in local properties. From what I know, some are not even educated not to mention wise and savvy. Just blindly buy once they have the money. Can we simply say that property investment dun really need smart , wise and educated. It is a non sophisticated and intricate investment instrument, so long you have money and confidence. Perhaps you know better. I 'm here to learn. Thank You.
You are right, I know nothing about property investment before I bought my first PC.
Even though join two estate agency still don't understand how people can buy million dollar property with their income.
Leverage was never in my mind, must be those years of programming by parent and government.
Bought my first PC but don't dare to tell my parent until TOP, afraid they cannot sleep after knowing it.
Was lucky get post oversea and got lot of time in front of the desktop, learn a bit from guru from skyscrapercity.com.
2011 went but Singapore to leverage max before ABSD. Now Bank don't dare to loan me money.
Master WL88 thank you for your reply. I have tried many investment instruments but none beat all those I know who have invested in local properties. From what I know, some are not even educated not to mention wise and savvy. Just blindly buy once they have the money. Can we simply say that property investment dun really need smart , wise and educated. It is a non sophisticated and intricate investment instrument, so long you have money and confidence. Perhaps you know better. I 'm here to learn. Thank You.
Masters , so far my only investment still sound are those bonds still earning peanut interest of 5-6% . When I buy ocbc 5.1% , 1 of my friend bought a condo with about same amount for down payment , after 6 years of collecting my interest rate and his rental. We compared, his ROI is much much higher than mine.
Masters , so far my only investment still sound are those bonds still earning peanut interest of 5-6% . When I buy ocbc 5.1% , 1 of my friend bought a condo with about same amount for down payment , after 6 years of collecting my interest rate and his rental. We compared, his ROI is much much higher than mine.
Some masters will argue that because of the time when we enter the market. Fast forward to now , can any Masters tell me if we do the same now, can bonds or any other investments beat property?
You are right, I know nothing about property investment before I bought my first PC.
Even though join two estate agency still don't understand how people can buy million dollar property with their income.
Leverage was never in my mind, must be those years of programming by parent and government.
Bought my first PC but don't dare to tell my parent until TOP, afraid they cannot sleep after knowing it.
Was lucky get post oversea and got lot of time in front of the desktop, learn a bit from guru from skyscrapercity.com.
2011 went but Singapore to leverage max before ABSD. Now Bank don't dare to loan me money.
Master Arcachon , usually people dun like to listen to Encik or legitimate Leaders. They refer " Indian Chief " lah
Master Arcachon , usually people dun like to listen to Encik or legitimate Leaders. They refer " Indian Chief " lah
Understand, how many will follow him even though he die on the cross for them. Amen.
To add on about the ABSD, it really sucks big time because IRAS takes your $$$ and then returns you say 5 years later when house TOP. I could take this $$$ and invest myself over these 5 years, in short there is opportunity costs lost because IRAS don't pay you any interest at all for the 5 years. See my example simple calculations at different annualised returns of 5%, 7% and 10% :
$1m house = $70,000 ABSD (7% for Singaporeans buying 2nd property )
YEAR 5% returns 7% returns 10% returns
1 $73,500 $74,900 $77,000
2 $77,175 $80,143 $84,700
3 $81,034 $85,753 $93,170
4 $85,085 $91,756 $102,487
5 $89,340 $98,179 $112,736
That's assuming u r selling ur HDB to get the refund. I forgo getting a new car to pay for the ABSD and I have to say I have no regrets yet.
Masters , so far my only investment still sound are those bonds still earning peanut interest of 5-6% . When I buy ocbc 5.1% , 1 of my friend bought a condo with about same amount for down payment , after 6 years of collecting my interest rate and his rental. We compared, his ROI is much much higher than mine.
Assume apartment 1 mil. Leverage 750k. Down 250k.
Now u down 250k on bonds at 5.1 % = 12.75k interest per year.
Loan 750k on bonds at interest % means net 4.1% = 30.75k
Total interest per year = $42.5k
Over 5 years = 212.5k.
Power of leveraging but also double edged sword. You choose what u want.
Assume apartment 1 mil. Leverage 750k. Down 250k.
Now u down 250k on bonds at 5.1 % = 12.75k interest per year.
Loan 750k on bonds at interest % means net 4.1% = 30.75k
Total interest per year = $42.5k
Over 5 years = 212.5k.
Power of leveraging but also double edged sword. You choose what u want.
Agree, chose what you know best.
Driving is not dangerous when you know how to drive.
From my observation, being savvy in one's investment does not need one to be educated (degree, master type) but investment wise is a definite yes. Just like many successful startups.
Liken it to Li Ka Shing or Warren B's principle of wealth accumulation, it's about their personal beliefs and some easy to understand addition & subtraction.
Master WL88 thank you for your reply. I have tried many investment instruments but none beat all those I know who have invested in local properties. From what I know, some are not even educated not to mention wise and savvy. Just blindly buy once they have the money. Can we simply say that property investment dun really need smart , wise and educated. It is a non sophisticated and intricate investment instrument, so long you have money and confidence. Perhaps you know better. I 'm here to learn. Thank You.
250k on bonds, no debt - Can sleep well, no nightmare, why not?
250k dnpymt, 750k debt.
1. If cannot sleep well, cold sweat at every fed news, why bother to go into such investment to give one so poor quality of life.
2. If confident, able to take the impending increase in interest rate, or even better 6 mths or more contingency (unforeseen), again, why not invest.
By the way, Citizen, what is your age group now? You are correct to come in to learn from a place with some of the most savvy in Sg, local & non-locals. I started reading this forum and the skyscraper more than 5 years ago.
I am not talking about myself, I have mtb once and managed to hop in the 2nd. Mid 40s and 2 properties, not likely to be able to get 3rd one with the current policies in place.
Assume apartment 1 mil. Leverage 750k. Down 250k.
Now u down 250k on bonds at 5.1 % = 12.75k interest per year.
Loan 750k on bonds at interest % means net 4.1% = 30.75k
Total interest per year = $42.5k
Over 5 years = 212.5k.
Power of leveraging but also double edged sword. You choose what u want.
What about a a Singaporean whos father is civil servant and mother a clerk. Worked and upgraded from rental hdb to owning a mansionnate and now retired nicely . While the dad in retirement still can buy a HDB for one of the kid. both children went to university and now one kid owns roof 5bed room hdb with a stable job while the other did better went on to live in town and own 5 properties. and likely retire collecting rent from 5 properties. But they all take MRT coz they dont need a car. Likly the next generation after that will do better!
This is the Singapore Story regardless your background if you are willing to strive u can progress and not stuck in any of the class divide.
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11888115_1197832323575555_547346106591589151_n.jpg?oh=c54b4bf1a61dba77416525cb9a035453&oe=567F0971
Actually how come dont also have this other story? Singaporean worked till 55 decide to retire. rent out his 4-5 bed room in Singapore go JB live like king in rented bunglow and have own car while happy collecting rent from the 4-5 room HDB and CPF life pocket $$. while medical is take care by pioneer benefits which are world class?
Your example is the envy of many. But I believe the parent and sibling all work hard (and smart also) to move up the ladder. This country has room for social mobility for those who are willing to give themselves a chance by trying hard enough. Hands me down prosperity may not last if the next generation knows not how to grow it.
What about a a Singaporean whos father is civil servant and mother a clerk. Worked and upgraded from rental hdb to owning a mansionnate and now retired nicely . While the dad in retirement still can buy a HDB for one of the kid. both children went to university and now one kid owns roof 5bed room hdb with a stable job while the other did better went on to live in town and own 5 properties. and likely retire collecting rent from 5 properties. But they all take MRT coz they dont need a car. Likly the next generation after that will do better!
This is the Singapore Story regardless your background if you are willing to strive u can progress and not stuck in any of the class divide.
Your example is the envy of many. But I believe the parent and sibling all work hard (and smart also) to move up the ladder. This country has room for social mobility for those who are willing to give themselves a chance by trying hard enough. Hands me down prosperity may not last if the next generation knows not how to grow it.
Well its all in each own hardiness and willing to reach for it. If ones swindle all the $$ and assest collected in the last generation ten that be it. They just have to learn the hard way.
let me add another story which is a someone I know. Mother is helper, Dad not ard. Grew up in a 3 bedder in D9. Went to university in UK on loan. Came back worked in MNC. Bought a Privated Condo in Town Fringe renting out lived with Mum. when Mum Passed on sold the mums 3bedder in Town bought a 5 room resale in OCR . Recently retrenched but happy go lucky coz picky on job as no dependant HDB is fully paid and Collecting rent from a Condo. Maybe will try to get job in next 24 mths not seem to be urgent.
Another one. someone close to me. Father is salesman, mum hse wife. Study locally went to local U and then while working did his PHD. Married have 3 kids stay in HDB . While working did some side biz inline with IT boom. Made some bucks jump on the 2008 property low and exited. then recently went to buy a condo in the OCR. Plan is move in the OCR rent out fully paid HDB. By time he hit 55 his condo fully paid have the option to move back to hdb collect rent on condo . retirement plan will get income from his condo or hdb rental plus his cpf life . Will live comfortably.
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11888115_1197832323575555_547346106591589151_n.jpg?oh=c54b4bf1a61dba77416525cb9a035453&oe=567F0971
I have a suggestion since the author of the above imaged feel so betrayed? why dont the follow what the 1,2,3 people did go work in london or work as a plumber in australia then come back singapore and retire as a king in JB? You mean its a entitlement to lived in bungalow and drive a car? 1,2,3 all have to leave home to move abroad and work? I suggest the author who feel betrayed do the same go overseas and work make the $$$ where the exchange rate is btter then singpaore then come back singapore retire,. Rather than feel entitle?
Another one. someone close to me. Father is salesman, mum hse wife. Study locally went to local U and then while working did his PHD. Married have 3 kids stay in HDB . While working did some side biz inline with IT boom. Made some bucks jump on the 2008 property low and exited. then recently went to buy a condo in the OCR. Plan is move in the OCR rent out fully paid HDB. By time he hit 55 his condo fully paid have the option to move back to hdb collect rent on condo . retirement plan will get income from his condo or hdb rental plus his cpf life . Will live comfortably.
With rental from just 1 property, can live comfortably? I guess his saving should good by the time he retired.
Retire to JB live like King while rent out Sg property?
JB so easy for u stay indefinitely? Custom runs every month in/out? Confirm boleh?
What happens if u rent out SG Hdb. Barr from re-entering JB while doing visa runs?
Sleep on the streets? lol
Retire to JB live like King while rent out Sg property?
JB so easy for u stay indefinitely? Custom runs every month in/out? Confirm boleh?
What happens if u rent out SG Hdb. Barr from re-entering JB while doing visa runs?
Sleep on the streets? lol
many people are doing that living in JB come back once a while ? I have a retired aunt doing that never hear her complain leh.
invigorated
05-10-15, 13:35
Actually many of us have benefitted from the stories and misadventures of our elders, some who had missed the boat and others who have reaped the benefits of foresight. At least with forums, we get a few more affirmations on property decisions.
It's always great to have relatives who are generous with sharing their little gems of information so that younger ones like us benefit, they should definitely share their stories.
Unfortunately, there's also this uncle who started injecting most of our dialogues with his purchases and how he had benefitted from the lows and being able to upgrade, making some of the dialogue stale and possibly also leading to a misunderstanding that he is overzealous. There was once we told him to tone down and now he starts to harp if he can share his story every time we meet him. So dunno what to tell him also.
With all the property cooling measures and tightening of foreigners into Singapore, his case might become a one-off event and not to be repeated in future? :p
Actually many of us have benefitted from the stories and misadventures of our elders, some who had missed the boat and others who have reaped the benefits of foresight. At least with forums, we get a few more affirmations on property decisions.
It's always great to have relatives who are generous with sharing their little gems of information so that younger ones like us benefit, they should definitely share their stories.
Unfortunately, there's also this uncle who started injecting most of our dialogues with his purchases and how he had benefitted from the lows and being able to upgrade, making some of the dialogue stale and possibly also leading to a misunderstanding that he is overzealous. There was once we told him to tone down and now he starts to harp if he can share his story every time we meet him. So dunno what to tell him also.
History always repeat itself in another Time and space. That is why we study History.
History always repeat itself in another Time and space. That is why we study History.
Never drive forward looking solely at the rear view mirror; never drive forward ignoring the rear view mirror.
DayDreamer
08-10-15, 04:20
Just to share my story. My family moved from Segamat to JB so I can go to Singapore to study. After O level, I went to New York. My father wanted me back to help in the business. Everything went well until my father passed on in 2008. I was 29. It was the most difficult time of my life. Company was in a mess. We manufacture veneer from Congo Africa to US customers. Sub Prime crisis came. Had to lay off 200 workers. Since they follow the French system, we had to pay lots of compensation. Eventually sold off the factory.
My father left over some properties in Singapore and Malaysia. He loved properties because he was very poor when he was young and his family can't afford a house. He wanted me and my brother to have a better life.
In 2010, I was looking to buy my first home. Look at Shanghai one, RV Edge and 8 Rodyk. I chicken out and missed the boat.
I married a Singaporean and bought a DBSS in Bishan in 2011. Bought a B1 commercial in 2012 for own use and tenanted half the unit. Collecting rental from 2 units my dad bought in 2000 fully paid off from rental.
Bought a Condo in 2013 under my brother's name. Tenanted out.
I sold off the Malaysia properties and moved most of the money to Sg since 2010. Our properties dropped about 30%-40%. I sold most at breakeven.
Invested into bonds and fixed deposit averaging 5-6%. Made back most of the money from currency pairing. I think it was pure luck.
Kept our old JB condo. Tenanted out to cover maintenance fees and some spending money when I go back to JB. Still have a unit at Lot 1 Waterfront waiting for someone to turn around the mall. Now waiting to buy back Malaysia properties when the opportunity comes.
However, in Sg, lost money in stocks and gold. Still holding on to them.
Overall wood biz not doing as good as before. Need to look for other ventures. Started doing shirt printing biz 2 years ago. Invested about 50K in printers with help of PIC. Thinking to invest in automated system. Having sleepless nights as the investment cost is about 200k. Might be overkill for sg market.
Looking to start a Biotech trading company with wife but looks like a tough market.
I am hoping to buy another property after I lower my exposure in the next 5 years or so.
Thank you for sharing. You are still young. Still got opportunities.
I was just wondering why buy Malaysian properties because I think the rental mkt is low + the ringgit will continue to drop in the long run. Maybe Aussie ccy may recover as the country is big in natural resources. Good luck.
DayDreamer
29-10-15, 10:19
Thank you for sharing. You are still young. Still got opportunities.
I was just wondering why buy Malaysian properties because I think the rental mkt is low + the ringgit will continue to drop in the long run. Maybe Aussie ccy may recover as the country is big in natural resources. Good luck.
Yes, but recently running into string of bad luck. A lot of doors closed. I will buy back only when it is very low. Maybe I will try KL this time. As for Aussie, I am not familiar.
Thinking to go back to school, I am feeling out of touch. :)
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