View Full Version : The Singapore's economy and property market beyond 2015
The Singapore's economy is going to slow down going forward and property prices can only decline gradually hereon. The cooling measures were in placed to ensure that when our economy takes a low growth path, not many people are exposed to inflated assets. Without these cooling measures, many more people would have bought or invested in properties would find themselves in an over-leveraged position when the values of their assets fall over the coming years.
My guess is that the General Election will be called in 2015 or early 2016 because our economy is still good and property prices especially in OCR has not corrected much. Many parents and would be first time buyers are happy that property prices are finally coming down. The minority (mainly the middle class) who bought property in recent years are still not having sleepless nights over to the values of their assets falling below their loan amount. Many of these buyers were also protected by the cooling measures and hence their LTV were below the 80% level.
Come 2016 and beyond, the economy and the property markets are likely to be even more challenging than 2015. Hence, GE in 2015 seems to be most favorable to the ruling party.
I had in late 2011 and 2012, urged people who were highly leveraged to sell off some of their investments. With prices in OCR still have not corrected much, it may well be your last chance for those highly leveraged investors to off load their assets even if it means lower profits or small losses. For those who could afford to hold on to your investments, good for you because not many people can be in your position. The market does not kills, greed does.
As we know, Singapore's economy has been quite poor for past 2 years (despite the large inflation) and will be so going forward, growing at miserable 1-3% (bearly beat inflation rate), and government seems unable to revive it to higher growth.......
Because economy is poor, coupled with the property cooling measures introduced by government which is causing the property prices to tank for past >1.5 years and expected to cause property price to drop for next few years, amounting to a crash of >20% expected.....
S$ is going to drop going forward (vs US$) because US economy is improving vs the poor Singapore economy which is slowing / going no where.......
In view of above, better have General Election early before people feel the pinch and put the blame on the ruling government and show their dissident and unhappiness by giving their vote to Opposition parties................... :doh:
For layman, better sell your spare properties or downgrade if you are over-leverage (before General Election) because when S$ drop vs US$, interest rates will shoot up, coupled with poor economy, ........... Oh my gosh!..............
But too late by then after General Election because Singapore really need bitter pill to help Singapore's economy to recover!
What bitter pills will come then after General Election?
Will GST increase? (to help the poor, but collect more taxes from every tom, dick and harry despite relatively low to ZERO salary rise because of poor Singapore's economy)
Will we see more "wealth tax"?
What kind of "wealth tax" will it be? Would the "wealth tax" be raised from:
- everybody who earns >$1500 per month,
- AND/OR everybody who owns property,
- AND/OR everybody whose property has NAV > $1000 per month,
- AND/OR something similar?
What else do you expect?
The Singapore's economy is going to slow down going forward and property prices can only decline gradually hereon. The cooling measures were in placed to ensure that when our economy takes a low growth path, not many people are exposed to inflated assets. Without these cooling measures, many more people would have bought or invested in properties would find themselves in an over-leveraged position when the values of their assets fall over the coming years.
My guess is that the General Election will be called in 2015 or early 2016 because our economy is still good and property prices especially in OCR has not corrected much. Many parents and would be first time buyers are happy that property prices are finally coming down. The minority (mainly the middle class) who bought property in recent years are still not having sleepless nights over to the values of their assets falling below their loan amount. Many of these buyers were also protected by the cooling measures and hence their LTV were below the 80% level.
Come 2016 and beyond, the economy and the property markets are likely to be even more challenging than 2015. Hence, GE in 2015 seems to be most favorable to the ruling party.
I had in late 2011 and 2012, urged people who were highly leveraged to sell off some of their investments. With prices in OCR still have not corrected much, it may well be your last chance for those highly leveraged investors to off load their assets even if it means lower profits or small losses. For those who could afford to hold on to your investments, good for you because not many people can be in your position. The market does not kills, greed does.
I have been telling people that OCR is the way to go for SG since joining the forum 2012.
It's simply the effect of modernisation plus policy changes. Economy GDP down is a deliberate steer to minimise and mitigate inflation effects in my opinion.
Do note that many middle upper and affluent Singaporeans have been saving and biding their time for the last two or three years. Many BTOs massively built during the catchup phase are also due for MOP very soon.
My guess is an even more sustained growth phase after GE. Just be on the lookout for it.
Your guess is unlikely to happen, and many don't expect your guess to happen, including the establishment................................
If it is likely to happen, better wait till early 2017 to have GE to capitalize on the "wealth effect" to get more votes. ................... :frog:
and by the way, given the massive BTOs coming on line and TOP and going 5 years in next few years, HDB resale flats prices will be significantly suppressed, and OCR private condo prices are expected to have major dip going forward................... (No more "upgrading effect" because people couldn't sell their HDB flats at inflated price to upgrade to OCR condos currently selling at inflated price...)
I have been telling people that OCR is the way to go for SG since joining the forum 2012.
It's simply the effect of modernisation plus policy changes. Economy GDP down is a deliberate steer to minimise and mitigate inflation effects in my opinion.
Do note that many middle upper and affluent Singaporeans have been saving and biding their time for the last two or three years. Many BTOs massively built during the catchup phase are also due for MOP very soon.
My guess is an even more sustained growth phase after GE. Just be on the lookout for it.
Your guess is unlikely to happen, and many don't expect your guess to happen, including the establishment................................
If it is likely to happen, better wait till early 2017 to have GE to capitalize on the "wealth effect" to get more votes. ................... :frog:
and by the way, given the massive BTOs coming on line and TOP and going 5 years in next few years, HDB resale flats prices will be significantly suppressed, and OCR private condo prices are expected to have major dip going forward................... (No more "upgrading effect" because people couldn't sell their HDB flats at inflated price to upgrade to OCR condos currently selling at inflated price...)
Simply put, if prices can be easily anticipated and moves according to expectations, then there won't be so many who miss the boat or catch the wrong boat.
If you don't own a HDB, you have no idea what the situation is going to be like when it MOP. If you don't visit the OCRs, you also will miss what's going on over there.
We will just have to be patient to see.
Not easy to anticipate, that is why even when some people who have the ability to anticipate talk about it openly, others will still not listen and even rubbish them (until it is too late). Is this any wonder why so many miss the boat and/or catch the wrong boat? .......... :onthego:
Simply put, if prices can be easily anticipated and moves according to expectations, then there won't be so many who miss the boat or catch the wrong boat.
If you don't own a HDB, you have no idea what the situation is going to be like when it MOP. If you don't visit the OCRs, you also will miss what's going on over there.
We will just have to be patient to see.
Not easy to anticipate, that is why even when some people who have the ability to anticipate talk about it openly, others will still not listen and even rubbish them (until it is too late). Is this any wonder why so many miss the boat and/or catch the wrong boat? .......... :onthego:
Yah my first two properties are bought at 30 to 70% of current prices. So I can tell with hindsight that the timing and class were perfect. But people always doubted me as i always move against the crowd. My timing and class of asset always differs from others.
Property prices are very difficult to predict. While GDP growth has declined, it is still a growth and the slower growth could be due to labour shortage.
The rump-up in housing supply could be due to "build first then relax immigration" policy. Housing prices are also impacted by ABSD, SSD, TDSR etc. These cooling measures may or may not be relaxed.
Then, as rightly pointed out, there are foreign exchange and interest rate impacts. S$ weakens means properties become cheaper to foreigners, so maybe demand will increase but interest rate will go up too, so demand will reduce. Prices may go either way. But in the longer term, with inflation, cash will generally decline in value.
Thanks for more balanced viewpoints. Admittedly, CCR and RCR and OCR are not uniform also. Every class and specific locality has a different proposition at all points of the cycle dependent on individual situation as well.
Property prices are very difficult to predict. While GDP growth has declined, it is still a growth and the slower growth could be due to labour shortage.
The rump-up in housing supply could be due to "build first then relax immigration" policy. Housing prices are also impacted by ABSD, SSD, TDSR etc. These cooling measures may or may not be relaxed.
Then, as rightly pointed out, there are foreign exchange and interest rate impacts. S$ weakens means properties become cheaper to foreigners, so maybe demand will increase but interest rate will go up too, so demand will reduce. Prices may go either way. But in the longer term, with inflation, cash will generally decline in value.
Singapore Land price will become cheaper because the Gov reclaim land from the sea using sand from other country.
Labor cost will become cheaper because other country not using their labor can let them work in Singapore.
We are not getting more FT because we don't like and have show in the 2011 election and the Gov agree we will not get more.
Our aging population can be easily be make to work longer because now people can work until they die, LKY show you can.
Still got a lot will show you property in future will become cheaper for everyone.
Happy SG50.
No quick recovery for Singapore property market: seminar
AS Singapore faces a "new normal" of slower growth and even stagnation risks, the property market is unlikely to stage a major rebound even if some cooling measures are relaxed now, market watchers said at a property seminar on Tuesday.
Chua Hak Bin, head of emerging Asia economics at Bank of America Merrill Lynch, warned that Singapore may enter a period of stagnation over the next couple of years.
Recent alarm bells were sounded when employment growth contracted for the first time in the first quarter since the global financial crisis (GFC), loans growth contracted in May for the first time since the GFC, and Singapore's inflation plunged to the lowest in five years, he said.
Some studies in the US have shown that macro-prudential measures such as housing loan-to-value ratios and stamp duties are more effective as tightening tools, but loosening these measures has less impact akin to "pushing on a string" in a downturn, Dr Chua said at the Real Estate Developers' Association of Singapore (Redas) property market seminar.
Redas president Augustine Tan flagged that any recovery in the property market will not be brisk. "We have to brace ourselves for a different mode of operation as the real estate market enters a different period," he told market practitioners at the seminar. "The build-up of the oversupply situation in the private residential market will not abate in the short term and recovery will not be a quick one."
The private housing inventory from the last few years of government land sales supply, along with the plunge in demand and rising vacancy rate, remains a drag on the market, he said.
Private home prices marked their seventh straight quarter of decline - the longest downward streak in 13 years - based on the Urban Redevelopment Authority's second-quarter flash index; over 89,000 new private residential units, including executive condominiums, are expected to be completed from 2015 to 2019.
Savills head of research Alan Cheong noted that prices alone do not provide a full picture. "It is more about market transactions collapsing that one should be concerned with," he said. Using the average monthly sales from January to May, it will take 12 years to clear the stock of launched and unsold inventory in the core central region. In the mass to mid-tier private homes market, it will take over 11 years to clear the inventory assuming that the government continues to sell land at the 2015 pace.
It also seems that Singapore's economy is becoming less supportive of the property market - going by lower GDP growth, slower population growth and a productivity drive that has fallen far below the growth target of 2-3 per cent per year. Labour productivity growth was negative in the last four years, while private investment contracted over the past two years.
But as the US starts raising interest rates, likely from September, the Sibor is expected to climb to 2 per cent by the end of next year, Dr Chua projected. Though past Federal rate hikes was accompanied by stronger US economic growth that in turn buoyed Asian economies and currencies, "we think that this time is different because of China", he said. A sputtering Chinese economy is negating that lift from the US economy and changes in US consumption patterns have reduced demand for Asian exports.
Property consultants at the seminar on Tuesday noted that prevailing economic conditions are also hurting key non-residential property segments.
As manufacturing activities remain subdued and supply of multiple-user factory space continues to outpace demand, rentals are expected to remain under pressure, said DTZ head of research Lee Nai Jia. "Difficulty in leasing is also expected to widen the rental gap between new and older industrial developments."
The relocation of tech companies like Google and Oracle from the CBD to modern high-tech business parks that are some 30-40 per cent cheaper in rents does not bode well for the office sector, property consultants noted.
According to Christine Li, research director at Cushman & Wakefield, new office leases as a proportion of total leases by floor area plunged to only 4 per cent in the first half of this year from 15 per cent in 2014. And among relocation contracts, as much as 88 per cent of the space is signed at cheaper buildings such as high-tech industrial buildings, business parks and suburban office buildings, up from 29 per cent in 2014. Office prices have shown to strongly correlate with economic growth in the past, except in an oversupply situation, Ms Li said.
In the retail space, rents and prices are also under pressure amid sliding occupancy rates. Knight Frank's survey of retailers showed that 53.3 per cent of the respondents are mulling downsizing or moving retail outlets to cheaper locations.
"The existing trend of major retailers consolidating their operations could persist through H2 2015 with the challenging retail market outlook," said Knight Frank's head of research and consultancy Alice Tan. "An influx of new retail space of 1.7 million sq ft in 2015 and 2016 could exert downward pressure on prime retail rents island-wide by 1 to 2 per cent in 2015."
No quick recovery for Singapore property market: seminar
AS Singapore faces a "new normal" of slower growth and even stagnation risks, the property market is unlikely to stage a major rebound even if some cooling measures are relaxed now, market watchers said at a property seminar on Tuesday.
Chua Hak Bin, head of emerging Asia economics at Bank of America Merrill Lynch, warned that Singapore may enter a period of stagnation over the next couple of years.
Recent alarm bells were sounded when employment growth contracted for the first time in the first quarter since the global financial crisis (GFC), loans growth contracted in May for the first time since the GFC, and Singapore's inflation plunged to the lowest in five years, he said.
These vested professionals only speak the "truth" after the fact. When the market was at a turning point some 3 years ago, these experts were still shouting to buy hoping to clear their inventories before reality bits.
So when the experts tell you to buy during the boom times, it would probably be the best time to sell. The herd follows the experts and the experts make their money and history will repeat itself. The average man will never learn from history.
These vested professionals only speak the "truth" after the fact. When the market was at a turning point some 3 years ago, these experts were still shouting to buy hoping to clear their inventories before reality bits.
So when the experts tell you to buy during the boom times, it would probably be the best time to sell. The herd follows the experts and the experts make their money and history will repeat itself. The average man will never learn from history.
1. Actually, to be precise, as far as 5-7 years ago, experts were already shouting oversupply.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/16009-Will-there-be-an-oversupply-of-condos
"from http://propertysoul.com/
About the trainer
Property Soul is a property enthusiast who bought her first condominium unit for rent since 2002. In the next 4˝ years, she built up a portfolio of five private properties. By 2008, its total value had more than doubled. In 2010 and 2011, she sold four of the properties, realizing a net profit of 80 to 120 percent.
In 2010, she set up a personal blog PropertySoul.com to share her experiences as a property investor and to exchange ideas with fellow investors on accumulating wealth through properties. In April 2014, she published her first book No B.S. Guide to Property Investment. The first print was sold out in bookstores within 8 weeks’ time. The book was a bestseller in Kinokuniya and Times bookstores.
Property Soul is also the founder of Property Club Singapore – a neutral platform for the learning and networking of like-minded private property buyers, investors and owners. Seminars, talks, workshops and networking sessions are organized regularly."
http://aboutsingaporeproperty.blogspot.sg/2010/07/oversupply-looming.html
http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/singapore-property-news/housing-oversupply-on-the-horizon-says-wing-tai-boss/a/69237
2. Assuming that your argument about the experts not saying what they really think three years ago is true, what makes you think they are telling the truth right now? Your so-called experts are encouraging you to sell now, before it's too late. Do you trust them? Do you think they themselves are selling now?
Reply to your question:
2. Assuming that your argument about the experts not saying what they really think three years ago is true, what makes you think they are telling the truth right now? Your so-called experts are encouraging you to sell now, before it's too late. Do you trust them? Do you think they themselves are selling now?
The experts are just reminding us a fact that Singapore private property market is already dead, private property prices regardless of OCR or CCR has been dropping for 6 quarters or 1.5 years now and early data already show that price will continue to drop in the 7th quarter, all these as a result of after introduction of very punitive property cooling measures like ABSD and TDSR by MAS and over-supply of private properties from massive land sales programme by MND.........
It is a no-brainer to predict that unless there is any effort and steps taken to reverse the trend by the Singapore government, private property prices every where (regardless of OCR or CCR) are expected to drop every quarter for next few years, and just nice to hit a recesion in say 2020 or after.
Many Singaporeans will end up losing their investment properties, and may even lose their own residential private properties if economy is bad and they lose their jobs by then (because they can't cash out of their investment property from now till the next recession)................... :onthego:
As to your first question, it is clear that even a broken clock is right twice a day, and the day has arrived NOW! :very_drunk:
1. Actually, to be precise, as far as 5-7 years ago, experts were already shouting oversupply.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/16009-Will-there-be-an-oversupply-of-condos
"from http://propertysoul.com/
About the trainer
Property Soul is a property enthusiast who bought her first condominium unit for rent since 2002. In the next 4˝ years, she built up a portfolio of five private properties. By 2008, its total value had more than doubled. In 2010 and 2011, she sold four of the properties, realizing a net profit of 80 to 120 percent.
In 2010, she set up a personal blog PropertySoul.com to share her experiences as a property investor and to exchange ideas with fellow investors on accumulating wealth through properties. In April 2014, she published her first book No B.S. Guide to Property Investment. The first print was sold out in bookstores within 8 weeks’ time. The book was a bestseller in Kinokuniya and Times bookstores.
Property Soul is also the founder of Property Club Singapore – a neutral platform for the learning and networking of like-minded private property buyers, investors and owners. Seminars, talks, workshops and networking sessions are organized regularly."
http://aboutsingaporeproperty.blogspot.sg/2010/07/oversupply-looming.html
http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/singapore-property-news/housing-oversupply-on-the-horizon-says-wing-tai-boss/a/69237
2. Assuming that your argument about the experts not saying what they really think three years ago is true, what makes you think they are telling the truth right now? Your so-called experts are encouraging you to sell now, before it's too late. Do you trust them? Do you think they themselves are selling now?
1. Actually, to be precise, as far as 5-7 years ago, experts were already shouting oversupply.
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/16009-Will-there-be-an-oversupply-of-condos
"from http://propertysoul.com/
About the trainer
Property Soul is a property enthusiast who bought her first condominium unit for rent since 2002. In the next 4˝ years, she built up a portfolio of five private properties. By 2008, its total value had more than doubled. In 2010 and 2011, she sold four of the properties, realizing a net profit of 80 to 120 percent.
In 2010, she set up a personal blog PropertySoul.com to share her experiences as a property investor and to exchange ideas with fellow investors on accumulating wealth through properties. In April 2014, she published her first book No B.S. Guide to Property Investment. The first print was sold out in bookstores within 8 weeks’ time. The book was a bestseller in Kinokuniya and Times bookstores.
Property Soul is also the founder of Property Club Singapore – a neutral platform for the learning and networking of like-minded private property buyers, investors and owners. Seminars, talks, workshops and networking sessions are organized regularly."
http://aboutsingaporeproperty.blogspot.sg/2010/07/oversupply-looming.html
http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/singapore-property-news/housing-oversupply-on-the-horizon-says-wing-tai-boss/a/69237
2. Assuming that your argument about the experts not saying what they really think three years ago is true, what makes you think they are telling the truth right now? Your so-called experts are encouraging you to sell now, before it's too late. Do you trust them? Do you think they themselves are selling now?
Mr Terrybear had answered your questions on my behalf.
Those non-vested experts would usually speak the truth or facts while vested experts would usually choose to "ignore" the facts and speak what sells. As a matter of facts, in 2011 (after GE 2011), when the government announced massive land supply, experts already know the oversupply situation would come. However those vested experts would say this time was different because of cheap money and population growth to support their claims. The herd buy into their argument and hence they could sell even more when market is booming. In the real estate market, there is this "window of opportunity" to sell and every experience developer knows the game.
Now these vested experts are not likely to tell you to sell because they still need to sell and clear their inventories. You have to decide for yourself do you need to sell or you can hold because you are not highly leveraged.
OK, good luck in your sales!
OK, good luck in your sales!
Are you referring to me? Most forumers since 2011 know that I am not vested nor did I miss the boat. I am merely sharing what I think I know.
Singapore’s grueling home price deadlock might finally be broken this year
Developers and sellers will capitulate.
It will be only a matter of time before home developers throw in the towel and surrender to the whims of cost-conscious property buyers.
A report by UOB said that private home prices will fall by a further 5-10% this year as developers and sellers capitulate to buyers' demands.
Although new home sales have declined sharply, prices have remained relatively elevated because of developers’ holding power.
"Some resolution to the stalemate could emerge this year as developers and sellers capitulate in the face of rising interest rates and weakening rentals. Increased willingness by developers/ sellers to cut prices could help spur inventory clearance as more price-sensitive demand returns. We expect a further 5-10% fall in private home prices this year,” the report said.
- See more at: http://sbr.com.sg/residential-property/in-focus/singapore%E2%80%99s-grueling-home-price-deadlock-might-finally-be-broken-year#sthash.Iu2bG1rR.dpuf
Are you referring to me? Most forumers since 2011 know that I am not vested nor did I miss the boat. I am merely sharing what I think I know.
OK have fun anyway then either renting or living with parents, or in some other exceptional cases, working for a place to stay!
OK have fun anyway then either renting or living with parents, or in some other exceptional cases, working for a place to stay!
I do not share my investment portfolio just like any other professional investor. However, I do share my views about social, economic and politics which have a direct impact on the property market. My views are based on social and economic fundamentals and consumers' behaviour.
I do not share my investment portfolio just like any other professional investor. However, I do share my views about social, economic and politics which have a direct impact on the property market. My views are based on social and economic fundamentals and consumers' behaviour.
This is exactly my view point as well - I share only very selectively.
But I prefer to use raw data and experience rather than "expert" views published. I monitor actual caveats to find out where the price drops are, where the price gains are, which locality and which segment, rental movements in different locality and type of property, population and demographic changes.
So far I have not seen your social, political and economic views clearly, only saw how you interpret the views in published articles.
Honestly, there was a period in 2013 and 2014 when I shared a good part of your views while waiting for a land parcel to be released. I wasn't in a hurry as well, knowing that prices would either drop or have very limited growth. If the Govt allowed for free fall, the land parcel would really change the dynamics in that region based on my monitoring. When I found out that the land parcel was withdrawn from a confirmed to the reserve list, I knew then that everything is within the control of those who need to be in control. Added to that was more than two years of income growth and savings for specific income groups, plus some subtle changes in policy.
The next wave will come very soon. It will not move fast but what I have seen it will be a very steady and slow one. The real risk is MERS especially. China and Greece not so much I feel. If you are not in a hurry, you can still monitor it for some time more.
This is exactly my view point as well - I share only very selectively.
But I prefer to use raw data and experience rather than "expert" views published. I monitor actual caveats to find out where the price drops are, where the price gains are, which locality and which segment, rental movements in different locality and type of property, population and demographic changes.
So far I have not seen your social, political and economic views clearly, only saw how you interpret the views in published articles.
Honestly, there was a period in 2013 and 2014 when I shared a good part of your views while waiting for a land parcel to be released. I wasn't in a hurry as well, knowing that prices would either drop or have very limited growth. If the Govt allowed for free fall, the land parcel would really change the dynamics in that region based on my monitoring. When I found out that the land parcel was withdrawn from a confirmed to the reserve list, I knew then that everything is within the control of those who need to be in control. Added to that was more than two years of income growth and savings for specific income groups, plus some subtle changes in policy.
The next wave will come very soon. It will not move fast but what I have seen it will be a very steady and slow one. The real risk is MERS especially. China and Greece not so much I feel. If you are not in a hurry, you can still monitor it for some time more.
Please read my postings between 2011 and 2012. I was not active in this forum between 2013 and 2015 (until recently).
To understand economic fundamental, you need to understand both macro and micro economics. The macro picture is that Singapore is now a matured economy and the government has chosen to let the economy grow as it is rather than like what was done in previous years to grow at all cost. From a macro economic perspective, it means that Singapore's growth will be slow and small in term of GDP and per capital income. As such, assets prices cannot increase like it was before. This is the "new normal" economists are talking about.
If you can see the big picture, you will have a good feel where and how to structure your investments.
Ok will source it out when there is time. This is a good state in the long run. If allowed fully to run its course, we would all be cursing right now like in HK.
Please read my postings between 2011 and 2012. I was not active in this forum between 2013 and 2015 (until recently).
To understand economic fundamental, you need to understand both macro and micro economics. The macro picture is that Singapore is now a matured economy and the government has chosen to let the economy grow as it is rather than like what was done in previous years to grow at all cost. From a macro economic perspective, it means that Singapore's growth will be slow and small in term of GDP and per capital income. As such, assets prices cannot increase like it was before. This is the "new normal" economists are talking about.
If you can see the big picture, you will have a good feel where and how to structure your investments.
Ok will source it out when there is time. This is a good state in the long run. If allowed fully to run its course, we would all be cursing right now like in HK.
Many analysts and even economists like to compare Singapore with Hong Kong, London, New York and Paris. We need to understand that all these cities are part of a bigger country with huge domestic demands. Hong Kong is part of China and the dynamics and domestic demands are very much different now than it was before.
Singapore is both a city and a country with its own set of economic and social challenges every country faces like income disparity, employment, inflation etc. We depend a lot on external demands to boost our economy.
Many analysts and even economists like to compare Singapore with Hong Kong, London, New York and Paris. We need to understand that all these cities are part of a bigger country with huge domestic demands. Hong Kong is part of China and the dynamics and domestic demands are very much different now than it was before.
Singapore is both a city and a country with its own set of economic and social challenges every country faces like income disparity, employment, inflation etc. We depend a lot on external demands to boost our economy.
We still have a number of fiscal tools on hand. What was done in the last few years was slowing down. The govt is looking for a reason to speed up. The reasons are drawing near.
We still have a number of fiscal tools on hand. What was done in the last few years was slowing down. The govt is looking for a reason to speed up. The reasons are drawing near.
Hope you get it right.
Fiscal policy can only do this much to a small economy like ours. We are affected by fiscal policies of the world greater economies. The dynamic of economic is that a strong growth will be followed by stagnation and/or recession. This is part of the economic cycles.
For those who have made your wealth through property investments (speculations for many) in the past, good for you. Your challenge going forward is to preserve your wealth.
For those who are still thinking of begging and borrowing enough to place that deposit to buy your first investment property and hope to strike gold down the road, you will need a lot of good luck going forward. The "new normal" will be very different from what we use to know. Property investment should only be a part of your investment portfolio and not your only investment. Only the very savvy and well funded investors may take some arbitrage profits but not without risk since property is illiquid.
Tdsr already prevent the speculators. Profit taking is mostly out of consideration.
Then why buy you may ask. Some have the answer. Some don't have. If don't have, don't buy better.
For those who have made your wealth through property investments (speculations for many) in the past, good for you. Your challenge going forward is to preserve your wealth.
For those who are still thinking of begging and borrowing enough to place that deposit to buy your first investment property and hope to strike gold down the road, you will need a lot of good luck going forward. The "new normal" will be very different from what we use to know. Property investment should only be a part of your investment portfolio and not your only investment. Only the very savvy and well funded investors may take some arbitrage profits but not without risk since property is illiquid.
Tdsr already prevent the speculators. Profit taking is mostly out of consideration.
Then why buy you may ask. Some have the answer. Some don't have. If don't have, don't buy better.
Speculators refers to those who bought and hold and hoping to sell at a profit few years later without any intention to stay or for long term rental. Some managed to sell with huge profits but many got caught and still holding them. Some can hold much longer but many will have to sell later when interest rate rises and rental unable to cover mortgages.
There will always have people buying and people selling. Questions we should ask is who are these people buying? Are they savvy investors, novice investors or are they buyers needing a home to stay?
Excellent.
So its one round back to:
1. What are they buying?
2. Where are they buying?
3. What is the price level they are buying at?
The answers will tell you which group they belong to.
Speculators refers to those who bought and hold and hoping to sell at a profit few years later without any intention to stay or for long term rental. Some managed to sell with huge profits but many got caught and still holding them. Some can hold much longer but many will have to sell later when interest rate rises and rental unable to cover mortgages.
There will always have people buying and people selling. Questions we should ask is who are these people buying? Are they savvy investors, novice investors or are they buyers needing a home to stay?
Looking at it , now is not a good time to buy?
Want to buy a new home freehold for long term stay and next time can pass to my kids.
Pass to your kids? May be your kids will have to go overseas to work because Singapore economy too bad, no good jobs for them?
Imagine, 5.8m population, only like 3.6m are Citizens.
What will happen to properties when these 2.2m population of foreigners leave Singapore (because Singapore's economy is bad and jobs getting less and less)?
Mind you, we still have not consider the 3.6m Citizens where up to 1m are foreigners-converted to citizens and they also have choice to go back to their own countries to work and leave!
And we need to consider many Singapore citizens who have foreign spouses and they can also go to their spouse's native countries to live and work!
And we still have not consider those well-educated and rich Citizens who have option to go overseas to work and live!
What will be left of Singapore?
Many vacant properties!
You still think Singapore's properties got value by then?
Looking at it , now is not a good time to buy?
Want to buy a new home freehold for long term stay and next time can pass to my kids.
Pass to your kids? May be your kids will have to go overseas to work because Singapore economy too bad, no good jobs for them?
Imagine, 5.8m population, only like 3.6m are Citizens.
What will happen to properties when these 2.2m population of foreigners leave Singapore (because Singapore's economy is bad and jobs getting less and less)?
Mind you, we still have not consider the 3.6m Citizens where up to 1m are foreigners-converted to citizens and they also have choice to go back to their own countries to work and leave!
And we need to consider many Singapore citizens who have foreign spouses and they can also go to their spouse's native countries to live and work!
And we still have not consider those well-educated and rich Citizens who have option to go overseas to work and live!
What will be left of Singapore?
Many vacant properties!
You still think Singapore's properties got value by then?
Since you are so negative about what is happening to Singapore, why are you still here? There is nothing much for you to talk about anymore, isn't it?
I am still here because I have properties here.............
But so do in other countries.................
When Singapore is in that kind of dire situation, I would have left Singapore much earlier by then........... :onthego:
Since you are so negative about what is happening to Singapore, why are you still here? There is nothing much for you to talk about anymore, isn't it?
I am still here because I have properties here.............
But so do in other countries.................
When Singapore is in that kind of dire situation, I would have left Singapore much earlier by then........... :onthego:
That is the kind of mentality that whatever is bought will suffer the lowest gain or the highest loss.
It's not true that you must be here because properties are here. Just ask Arcachon.
It is funny that you people are trying to justify this and that which is none of your business where I stay??????? :doh:
Frankly speaking, I can be here, I can be there, I can be anywhere I like......... Most important is that I don't put all my eggs in 1 single basket so that if Singapore crash and burn, I have other places to go, and I know of many people who are like me (just that they don't openly say so - Some may even sing how patriotic they are! - What a bunch of hypocrites!)..................... :hornybastard:
That is the kind of mentality that whatever is bought will suffer the lowest gain or the highest loss.
It's not true that you must be here because properties are here. Just ask Arcachon.
To some the world is soooooo big, to others the World is so smalllllll.
I was lucky to stay in the US for 3 years and France 8 years in my life time to know how big is the World.
Jim Roger and many others is in Singapore for a reason.
You can have all the money in this World but when you leave this World the money stay in this World.
You come empty, you go empty.
Others country can just leave a place and build a new one but you can't in Singapore.
To be able to connect to all part of the World make your World soooooo small.
If you ask me, I want to stay in Singapore where you can go any part of the World, eat anything the World produce and buy anything you want.
LKY spend all his life building Singapore and have in place all the safety feature it will be gone when everyone become a Greek.
It's not about leaving SG. It's about trying to shoot down one class of property while trying to promote another, ignoring other changes in the environment.
Speak of doomsday but hold heavier assets than others. If that is not hypocrisy, what is?
If crash happens, all your eggs here will be the first to get crushed.
It is funny that you people are trying to justify this and that which is none of your business where I stay??????? :doh:
Frankly speaking, I can be here, I can be there, I can be anywhere I like......... Most important is that I don't put all my eggs in 1 single basket so that if Singapore crash and burn, I have other places to go, and I know of many people who are like me (just that they don't openly say so - Some may even sing how patriotic they are! - What a bunch of hypocrites!)..................... :hornybastard:
It is fine if all my eggs here in Singapore get crushed and burned, because it is just part of a portfolio. As I mention before, I don't put all my eggs in 1 single basket, so Singapore is just 1 of the baskets. And you should heed my advise too! Look at Greece and you will know.
I don't think I exhibit any hypocrisy here because when Singapore private property prices go down, I am also affected. However, I prefer to tell the truth here, rather than to attempt to defend my own self-interest and try to talk up the property price, and not to tell the truth that CCR property prices are already down >20%, some even >30%, and will continue to go down for next few years. However, the fact is that I expect OCR private property prices to go down MUCH MUCH more than CCR private property prices in next few years going forward, for simple reason that CCR price has already dropped by >20% (some >30%) while OCR price has bearly dropped 5%. Still, both will continue to drop in next few years until next recession!............. Simple logic. See who is the hypocrite here trying to defend self-interest, like OCR price won't drop? :ashamed1:
When the ruling party resorts to populist policies to start to distribute money in whatever way to "buy" votes, especially before General Election, and this continue for a long term, then the country is down a slippery road, and sooner or later will be like Greece.................
It's not about leaving SG. It's about trying to shoot down one class of property while trying to promote another, ignoring other changes in the environment.
Speak of doomsday but hold heavier assets than others. If that is not hypocrisy, what is?
If crash happens, all your eggs here will be the first to get crushed.
Strongly salute. I have gotten a sensing before of the size of the world but SG still has most of the endearing factors to work, eat, take care of children, and nearby medical support available all year round.
It's definitely not something built overnight.
Private properties here are still not cheap if compared at face value to many in developed countries. But even discounting the amenities, just based on the latent demand, there are strong reasons for its price tags. And I think the Govt linking income to prices have rightly nipped the bud in its head. Stagnant prices for these couple of years when other countries continue to grow in house prices has been a very brave but ethically strong move.
To some the world is soooooo big, to others the World is so smalllllll.
I was lucky to stay in the US for 3 years and France 8 years in my life time to know how big is the World.
Jim Roger and many others is in Singapore for a reason.
You can have all the money in this World but when you leave this World the money stay in this World.
You come empty, you go empty.
Others country can just leave a place and build a new one but you can't in Singapore.
To be able to connect to all part of the World make your World soooooo small.
If you ask me, I want to stay in Singapore where you can go any part of the World, eat anything the World produce and buy anything you want.
LKY spend all his life building Singapore and have in place all the safety feature it will be gone when everyone become a Greek.
Is property still a good hedge against inflation in the long run?
I think it's safer to diversify our investment. Be it in stocks bonds etc. In my earlier days.. The afc made a few of my relatives bankrupted.
Strongly salute. I have gotten a sensing before of the size of the world but SG still has most of the endearing factors to work, eat, take care of children, and nearby medical support available all year round.
It's definitely not something built overnight.
Private properties here are still not cheap if compared at face value to many in developed countries. But even discounting the amenities, just based on the latent demand, there are strong reasons for its price tags. And I think the Govt linking income to prices have rightly nipped the bud in its head. Stagnant prices for these couple of years when other countries continue to grow in house prices has been a very brave but ethically strong move.
Agree with your observation. Totally .
It is fine if all my eggs here in Singapore get crushed and burned, because it is just part of a portfolio. As I mention before, I don't put all my eggs in 1 single basket, so Singapore is just 1 of the baskets............... And you should heed my advise too! Look at Greece and you will know.
When the ruling party resorts to populist policies to start to distribute money in whatever way to "buy" votes, and this continue for a long term, then the country is down a slippery road, and sooner or later will be like Greece.................
I think how we interpret those "populist measures" differ. For me, it's a shift of direct and indirect taxation from a less progressive to a more progressive one. In the end, I think I pay proportionally much more tax with higher incomes than with lower income. Just some examples.
1. Petrol tax increased 20c recently while no changes for diesel. So public transport not affected.
2. Increase of taxes on multiple property owner plus taxes on homes left empty. Taxing people with more than 1 property.
3. GST rebates only to households below an income threshold.
4. Using taxes like ABSDs to cover the shortfall in incomes from direct sales of homes to developers and home buyers.
If the less fortunate or less able benefits from these shifts resulting in the increase in the overall level of the whole country, I say why not, even if I have to pay much more? Tax on those luxury watches (costing tens of thousands), branded bags, and redistribute to those who really need support.
Can name me a few of those populist measures you claim?
It is fine if all my eggs here in Singapore get crushed and burned, because it is just part of a portfolio. As I mention before, I don't put all my eggs in 1 single basket, so Singapore is just 1 of the baskets. And you should heed my advise too! Look at Greece and you will know.
I don't think I exhibit any hypocrisy here because when Singapore private property prices go down, I am also affected. However, I prefer to tell the truth here, rather than to attempt to defend my own self-interest and try to talk up the property price, and not to tell the truth that CCR property prices are already down >20%, some even >30%, and will continue to go down for next few years. However, the fact is that I expect OCR private property prices to go down MUCH MUCH more than CCR private property prices in next few years going forward, for simple reason that CCR price has already dropped by >20% (some >30%) while OCR price has bearly dropped 5%. Still, both will continue to drop in next few years until next recession!............. Simple logic. See who is the hypocrite here trying to defend self-interest, like OCR price won't drop? :ashamed1:
When the ruling party resorts to populist policies to start to distribute money in whatever way to "buy" votes and promise of more "goodies" when they are elected especially before General Election (like Greece), and then try to recover these money in whatever way from every Tom Dick and Harry but disguised as some form of taxes that only taxes the "rich" or those with "wealth" (with questionable definition and determination for having "wealth" and/or being "rich", and people will sooner or later see the truth and "TRUST" by people is lost, like Greece), and this continue for a long time, then the country is down a slippery road, and sooner or later will be just like Greece.................
It's not about leaving SG. It's about trying to shoot down one class of property while trying to promote another, ignoring other changes in the environment.
Speak of doomsday but hold heavier assets than others. If that is not hypocrisy, what is?
If crash happens, all your eggs here will be the first to get crushed.
Property is a good hedge against inflation in the long run, but that is provided:
1) the country where you own the property has a growing/strong economy
2) The currency of the country is strong
3) the country won't go bankrupt (like Greece)
4) You have sufficient liquidity to hold the property through recession (coming soon in 2020 or thereafter)............
5) ...... (what else??????)................
Now, benchmark against Singapore:
1a) Singapore economy is going weaker and weaker
2a) S$ is going down, especially vs US$ and GBP (judging by recent trend)
3a) Singapore budget surplus is almost ZERO now, and expect more "wealth" taxes to be raised. (Hope they WON'T consider anybody earning >$2000 pm as "wealthy" or owning a property as "wealthy".....)
So, what is your conclusion about Singapore private property prices in the short-term to year 2020?
Is property still a good hedge against inflation in the long run?
I think it's safer to diversify our investment. Be it in stocks bonds etc. In my earlier days.. The afc made a few of my relatives bankrupted.
Is property still a good hedge against inflation in the long run?
I think it's safer to diversify our investment. Be it in stocks bonds etc. In my earlier days.. The afc made a few of my relatives bankrupted.
True. This largely also depends on one's age and how much risks can be stomached.
My view is if TDSR was not implemented in 2013, we would now be at rates that are bursting bubbles. We already slumped it first and reduced the bubbles' sizes from 2013.
http://www.scmp.com/property/hong-kong-china/article/1645542/hong-kongs-housing-market-facing-slump-2015
These two years were buffer zones to make sure that buyers have sufficient income to support the price. Earlier buyers are now the main risks (supposing they over-leveraged), but they also likely got the properties earlier and at lower price points and could afford to sell at larger "losses" (smaller gains). Many of the auction properties forced sold belong to this group.
Right now, it isn't easy to qualify to buy, much less to over-leverage in a manner that can cause bankruptcy. So I think every individual has got to apply some common sense in their choices.
Wow, GST is good for Singaporeans again?!
Come on, they say raising GST to 7% is to help the poor, so could they tell us NOW whether will they be RAISING GST after the General Election to help the poor? :surprise:
Raising petrol tax is good for lower income? What a bunch of bullshit!
Now, petrol is used in all commercial vehicles and public transport!
All these costs will sooner or later be passed to consumers, and the poor will be HIT HARD again! So how will the less fortunate benefit from petrol tax increase????
Come on, it is clear, directly increase taxes on those earning >$1 Million a year back to say 33% is the best way to raise govt's revenue to help the poor and the middle-income, instead of raising GST and petrol duty taxes and thus squeezing everybody from middle-income down to those with ZERO income!
Aren't we already have been warned to expect more "WEALTH TAXES" like GST?! Looks like this petrol duty has been disguised as a form of "wealth taxes" as well?
I think how we interpret those "populist measures" differ. For me, it's a shift of direct and indirect taxation from a less progressive to a more progressive one. In the end, I think I pay proportionally much more tax with higher incomes than with lower income. Just some examples.
1. Petrol tax increased 20c recently while no changes for diesel. So public transport not affected.
2. Increase of taxes on multiple property owner plus taxes on homes left empty. Taxing people with more than 1 property.
3. GST rebates only to households below an income threshold.
4. Using taxes like ABSDs to cover the shortfall in incomes from direct sales of homes to developers and home buyers.
If the less fortunate or less able benefits from these shifts resulting in the increase in the overall level of the whole country, I say why not, even if I have to pay much more? Tax on those luxury watches (costing tens of thousands), branded bags, and redistribute to those who really need support.
Can name me a few of those populist measures you claim?
Relax, brother. It's all part of a plan. Watch out for the coming PM Speech to cope with growth issues (which helps currency etc).
And I already said many times that TDSR ensures that new buyers have the liquidity through stress periods.
Budget surplus 0 is a good thing. All surpluses should be channeled to help the less fortunate in medical and basic needs. We still have ongoing gains in reserves as a buffer.
Any other concrete issues?
Property is a good hedge against inflation in the long run, but that is provided:
1) the country where you own the property has a growing/strong economy
2) The currency of the country is strong
3) the country won't go bankrupt (like Greece)
4) You have sufficient liquidity to hold the property through recession (coming soon in 2020 or thereafter)............
5) ...... (what else??????)................
Now, benchmark against Singapore:
1a) Singapore economy is going weaker and weaker
2a) S$ is going down, especially vs US$ and GBP (judging by recent trend)
3a) Singapore budget surplus is almost ZERO now, and expect more "wealth" taxes to be raised. (Hope they WON'T consider anybody earning >$2000 pm as "wealthy" or owning a property as "wealthy".....)
So, what is your conclusion about Singapore private property prices in the short-term to year 2020?
invigorated
16-07-15, 09:29
When the ruling party resorts to populist policies to start to distribute money in whatever way to "buy" votes and promise of more "goodies" when they are elected especially before General Election (like Greece), and then try to recover these money in whatever way from every Tom Dick and Harry but disguised as some form of taxes that only taxes the "rich" or those with "wealth" (with questionable definition and determination for having "wealth" and/or being "rich", and people will sooner or later see the truth and "TRUST" by people is lost, like Greece), and this continue for a long time, then the country is down a slippery road, and sooner or later will be just like Greece.................
I agree with kelonguni observations that taxes are moving towards a progressive direction. Have you taken up econs or read up on macroecons?
TB, I have seen your criticism and rantings but what i often miss are your suggestions on how to do it better. How else would you have done it?
The govt will not deny that taxes are an important source of their revenue. That said, there must be a delicate balance struck between taxing the middle and higher income and giving too much to those who are less well off, we are afterall a meritocratic state and the govt encourages citizens to be more independent.
GST no doubt taxes the well off more as they have a bigger consumption basket, some of the revenue would then trickle down to those who qualify for financial assistance. They come in the form of allowances for students of these families for their food and books, free tuition and recently, a waiver of all exam fees. There are also bursaries for good performers. These are the building blocks and the govt has ensured that money flows down more to them. Not forgetting a top up to their edusave, cda accounts etc. Of course, there are also rebates for utility bills, GST vouchers for the less privileged to cope with rises in prices. Some can also use the rental of their houses to fund their retirement if they had planned in advance.
I may be paying more petrol taxes but knowing the bigger purpose of it, I'm not balking. If you are qualified, would suggest you contribute more than just CAPs as it may appear that empty vessels do make the most noise. If you do feel so much for the poor, do join me to give out free food over some weekends as we do need volunteers like you.
I agree with kelonguni observations that taxes are moving towards a progressive direction. Have you taken up econs or read up on macroecons?
TB, I have seen your criticism and rantings but what i often miss are your suggestions on how to do it better. How else would you have done it?
The govt will not deny that taxes are an important source of their revenue. That said, there must be a delicate balance struck between taxing the middle and higher income and giving too much to those who are less well off, we are afterall a meritocratic state and the govt encourages citizens to be more independent.
GST no doubt taxes the well off more as they have a bigger consumption basket, some of the revenue would then trickle down to those who qualify for financial assistance. They come in the form of allowances for students of these families for their food and books, free tuition and recently, a waiver of all exam fees. There are also bursaries for good performers. These are the building blocks and the govt has ensured that money flows down more to them. Not forgetting a top up to their edusave, cda accounts etc. Of course, there are also rebates for utility bills, GST vouchers for the less privileged to cope with rises in prices. Some can also use the rental of their houses to fund their retirement if they had planned in advance.
I may be paying more petrol taxes but knowing the bigger purpose of it, I'm not balking. If you are qualified, would suggest you contribute more than just CAPs as it may appear that empty vessels do make the most noise. If you do feel so much for the poor, do join me to give out free food over some weekends as we do need volunteers like you.
Clap hand for you.
I like GST as it is a very indirect but effective way to tax the rich. The only problem is the retirees are badly affected as they no longer have any income, but then again, how much can a retiree consume. Cannot be eating buffet everyday right?
Clap hand for you.
I like GST as it is a very indirect but effective way to tax the rich. The only problem is the retirees are badly affected as they no longer have any income, but then again, how much can a retiree consume. Cannot be eating buffet everyday right?
That's why got the GST rebate and other schemes to help to reimburse the GST charged to them?
Funny, you asking me for solution? Am I paid $MILLIONS to solve the problems? :tranquillity:
Aren't we told that paying $MILLIONS to capable people we will get the solutions?
I am not paid $MILLIONS to solve the problem, so please go to ask those people who are PAID to solve the problem!
Are you telling us that you believe those people have been paid $MILLIONS BUT is incapable of solving the problems raised and hence you are asking other people like me who raised the problems/issues to solve the problem as well?
GST no doubt taxes the rich more in consumption on absolute terms, but it taxes the POOR even much much and GST taxes make up a very much bigger % to the poor and middle-income people than the rich.
Somebody here said retiree can't spend so much so won't incur so much GST, so not an issue. However, the same is also true for the rich: How much can the rich spend if they earn say $3 Millions a year? Very little in % terms actually! If they are not greedy, and they don't like to show off, then they probably won't spend more than $300k a year or <10% of their income!) So, while they incur 7% GST (i.e. pay 0.7% of their income on paying GST due to their consumption), they received 13% tax cut on their income (from 33% in 1990 to 20% now). So all in, the rich saved a lot on taxes vs their income (something like 12.7% of their income) actually since 1991 (or there about).
So, the truth is, GST is raised mostly come from the middle-income people, which makes up like 70-80% of the population (trying to make ends meet), not the rich. The middle-income on average earns like $50,000 a year, but spend like $45,000 a year on expenses, and hence end up paying like 6.3% more on taxes in GST vs their income!
So, conclusion: When GST was implemented and raised to 7% and income tax was reduced from 33% to 20%, the rich saved 12.7% in taxes on their income while the everybody else pay 6.3% or more in taxes on their income due to GST! Obviously, some will say there are rebates, but how many people are eligible for GST rebates and how much is that vs the additional taxes they need to pay?
I agree with kelonguni observations that taxes are moving towards a progressive direction. Have you taken up econs or read up on macroecons?
TB, I have seen your criticism and rantings but what i often miss are your suggestions on how to do it better. How else would you have done it?
The govt will not deny that taxes are an important source of their revenue. That said, there must be a delicate balance struck between taxing the middle and higher income and giving too much to those who are less well off, we are afterall a meritocratic state and the govt encourages citizens to be more independent.
GST no doubt taxes the well off more as they have a bigger consumption basket, some of the revenue would then trickle down to those who qualify for financial assistance. They come in the form of allowances for students of these families for their food and books, free tuition and recently, a waiver of all exam fees. There are also bursaries for good performers. These are the building blocks and the govt has ensured that money flows down more to them. Not forgetting a top up to their edusave, cda accounts etc. Of course, there are also rebates for utility bills, GST vouchers for the less privileged to cope with rises in prices. Some can also use the rental of their houses to fund their retirement if they had planned in advance.
I may be paying more petrol taxes but knowing the bigger purpose of it, I'm not balking. If you are qualified, would suggest you contribute more than just CAPs as it may appear that empty vessels do make the most noise. If you do feel so much for the poor, do join me to give out free food over some weekends as we do need volunteers like you.
The truth is, KPKB people seldom want to solve problems.
Solve one problem, they will go on to another problem. Even a good solution has its criticisms, and that's what they pick up and emphasize, blinding themselves to any potential merits.
The truly poor and much of the middle class do not actually complain as much as these people (who are well to do generally). This is because they also recognise the balanced package they are receiving from the country (cheap basic education, 99% reliable public transport). We can also turn the arrow and say that for these cheap services (like education), the poor are benefiting much more than the rich in terms of proportion of income. Going forward, even medical coverage and insurance for the poor will be much cheaper absolutely and relatively.
Do the KPKBians emphasize on that? Surely not. Neither should I, even though I sincerely feel we are in good (but not perfect) hands.
Funny, people raise problems/issues means KPKB?
So you are telling all of us to act dumb and mute as though there is no problem (when there are many waiting to be solved)?
Nobody raise any problem means no problem existed so that there is no need to work to find solutions for the problems?
No wonder when people raise problems, they and the people like you like to say you all since can raise problems HAVE to tell us the solution instead of KBKP? :pig:
So people or those "KPKBians" you labelled as should emphasize and keep singing songs on what has been done well and continue to brown tongue while closing their eyes and shut up on all those existing problems? Scary man! When society is like that, we will sure go down the slippery slope to hell when "no problem" (shut all us people up means no problem right!) means nothing get done/solved! Like that North Korea with their dictator must have been the best managed country in the world! What problem, where got problem in North Korea? Sure, there is always no problem in the eyes of the dictator in North Korea because you people who raise problems must be problem-makers, KPKBians, don't know who you are talking to and dare to raise problems without giving me solutions blah blah blah! Pang! :panda:
Sounds like you are saying the poor and middle-class has been so stupid all along?! Luckily many poor and middle-class nowadays are getting smarter already and they know how to raise and shout out loud the problems and KPKB, otherwise nobody complains means no problem, and when the trains keep shutting down they will have to pay even more fare increase to PAY MORE to help the transport companies (whose profits seem to be absolutely guaranteed) to improve the train system! Think less and less people in Singapore are dumb and mute and so stupid to accept such twisted logic propagated like you and those brown-tonguing anymore! :surprise:
The truth is, KPKB people seldom want to solve problems.
Solve one problem, they will go on to another problem. Even a good solution has its criticisms, and that's what they pick up and emphasize, blinding themselves to any potential merits.
The truly poor and much of the middle class do not actually complain as much as these people (who are well to do generally). This is because they also recognise the balanced package they are receiving from the country (cheap basic education, 99% reliable public transport). We can also turn the arrow and say that for these cheap services (like education), the poor are benefiting much more than the rich in terms of proportion of income. Going forward, even medical coverage and insurance for the poor will be much cheaper absolutely and relatively.
Do the KPKBians emphasize on that? Surely not. Neither should I, even though I sincerely feel we are in good (but not perfect) hands.
This government of ours has always been taking care of the rich because of the economic benefits the rich would add to our economy. However, in doing so, the rich have inflated assets prices leading to the watershed results in GE 2011. Hence, the government now shifted its position from centre-right to centre-left. With its centre-left policy, the poor would benefit more, the rich are somewhat "indifferent" but the middle income will always be at the loosing end be it centre-right or centre-left.
In a capitalism society, the poor are likely to remain poor while the rich are likely to become richer. The middle income have aspiration to become rich but find it tough to realise their aspirations. Hence, the government is seen helping the middle incomer to upgrade in term of making assets prices more affordable. Politically, this is one reason why asset prices cannot move faster than income because it will upset the middle middle income which make up about 60% of the population. From an economic perspective, assets prices rising faster than incomes will lead to a bubble economy and is not sustainable.
Taxes are the main source of revenue to any government. The move towards centre-left has lead to more progress taxes. GST appears to hit the middle income more than the poor and the rich.
invigorated
16-07-15, 13:05
The truth is, KPKB people seldom want to solve problems.
Solve one problem, they will go on to another problem. Even a good solution has its criticisms, and that's what they pick up and emphasize, blinding themselves to any potential merits.
The truly poor and much of the middle class do not actually complain as much as these people (who are well to do generally). This is because they also recognise the balanced package they are receiving from the country (cheap basic education, 99% reliable public transport). We can also turn the arrow and say that for these cheap services (like education), the poor are benefiting much more than the rich in terms of proportion of income. Going forward, even medical coverage and insurance for the poor will be much cheaper absolutely and relatively.
Do the KPKBians emphasize on that? Surely not. Neither should I, even though I sincerely feel we are in good (but not perfect) hands.
As a certain someone has shown, empty vessels do make the most noise.
Whenever one finger is pointed at someone, a few more will inadvertently be pointed back at ourselves. The govt cannot afford to feed every individual, lest we become a welfare state. Each person has a responsibility to plan for their retirement and ensuring sustenance. Costs too high? Find a side income, rent out a room or pick up a new skill and advance. If all fails, then go for financial aid but don't expect a drumstick there.
Very few people actually raise GST as a problem. Only you keep harping on it. Most see it as a kind of solution.
We have much more real problems to solve. We will never be problem free, but we should channel more resources to help deal with the real problems. The rich pay most of the GST re-channelling back as rebates mostly for the poor can also be re-packaged (only by you) as them paying less as a proportion of their incomes. Really classic, why don't you write about this method of accounting to the news or to the PM Facebook so we know who actually does this kind of warped and twisted calculation?
Going by your logic, the rich also pay less for their transport (as compared to public transport) with their private luxury cars and yachts as it also makes up a small percent of their income. We might as well set a rule that everytime they use public toilets must pay $100 each time instead of 10c or 20c as a percent of their income.
There is actually a huge majority of silent group. Not everyone uses such twisted logic ok?
Funny, people raise problems/issues means KPKB?
So you are telling all of us to act dumb and mute as though there is no problem (when there are many waiting to be solved)?
Nobody raise any problem means no problem existed so that there is no need to work to find solutions for the problems?
No wonder when people raise problems, they and the people like you like to say you all since can raise problems HAVE to tell us the solution instead of KBKP? :pig:
So people or those "KPKBians" you labelled as should emphasize and keep singing songs on what has been done well and continue to brown tongue while closing their eyes and shut up on all those existing problems? Scary man! When society is like that, we will sure go down the slippery slope to hell when "no problem" (shut all us people up means no problem right!) means nothing get done/solved! Like that North Korea with their dictator must have been the best managed country in the world! What problem, where got problem in North Korea? Sure, there is always no problem in the eyes of the dictator in North Korea because you people who raise problems must be problem-makers, KPKBians, don't know who you are talking to and dare to raise problems without giving me solutions blah blah blah! Pang! :panda:
Sounds like you are saying the poor and middle-class has been so stupid all along?! Luckily many poor and middle-class nowadays are getting smarter already and they know how to raise and shout out loud the problems and KPKB, otherwise nobody complains means no problem, and when the trains keep shutting down they will have to pay even more fare increase to PAY MORE to help the transport companies (whose profits seem to be absolutely guaranteed) to improve the train system! Think less and less people in Singapore are dumb and mute and so stupid to accept such twisted logic propagated like you and those brown-tonguing anymore! :surprise:
Steady and solid. Indeed someone with deeper insights.
Can I also rephrase as the middle income and the upper income groups supporting the lower income groups if just looking at GST?
I think that assessment is fair, as the middle income forms the largest strata by proportion.
My thinking is that the middle income may benefit in other less direct areas. For example, they may qualify to buy larger HDBs which the low income cannot afford and the high income does not qualify. So in that area, there is a potential for asset growth.
This government of ours has always been taking care of the rich because of the economic benefits the rich would add to our economy. However, in doing so, the rich have inflated assets prices leading to the watershed results in GE 2011. Hence, the government now shifted its position from centre-right to centre-left. With its centre-left policy, the poor would benefit more, the rich are somewhat "indifferent" but the middle income will always be at the loosing end be it centre-right or centre-left.
In a capitalism society, the poor are likely to remain poor while the rich are likely to become richer. The middle income have aspiration to become rich but find it tough to realise their aspirations. Hence, the government is seen helping the middle incomer to upgrade in term of making assets prices more affordable. Politically, this is one reason why asset prices cannot move faster than income because it will upset the middle middle income which make up about 60% of the population. From an economic perspective, assets prices rising faster than incomes will lead to a bubble economy and is not sustainable.
Taxes are the main source of revenue to any government. The move towards centre-left has lead to more progress taxes. GST appears to hit the middle income more than the poor and the rich.
bargain hunter
16-07-15, 13:50
i agree with bro kelonguni, the slowdown that we have been experiencing for the economy is more of consolidation than anything. bro TB, i feel it is too bearish to assume the economy will continue to weaken till 2020.
much as i have been a pessimist, i noticed that wage earners r all happy. the bulk of the population does not feel any pain or economic slowdown at all.
btw, do u guys receive email notifications when someone replies to this thread? i have not been receiving any email notifications since the website came back online. can someone teach me how to reset it?
bargain hunter
16-07-15, 14:09
holding elections this year will also enable the gahmen to relax some measures if needed next year?
Agree with Bargain Hunter.
Typical complain here and there lar. My Colleagues, friends around me always complain cost high, food expensive, GST here and there.
But every time are flashed with the latest gadgets, driving latest cars and every year at least 1 long and 1 short holiday.
Of course got the poorer one lar like my sisters families. Fly budget lor, after all SG dollar berry strong. Still can afford Taiwan, Thailand, China for holiday.
So SG not so poor lar.. All the people complaint and complaint are part of their daily routine lar. So all don't be so -ve.
holding elections this year will also enable the gahmen to relax some measures if needed next year?
I think with relaxing the measures may be a bit too late and ineffective now with the huge supplies of CONDO coming up. Yesterday's business time also reported. So I think air storm is on the way.
holding elections this year will also enable the gahmen to relax some measures if needed next year?
The government may remove some cooling measures which are no longer relevant such as SSD. However, I do not see why the government wants to remove any when the market is making a steady soft landing.
The government is not expected to relax any cooling measures until prices have reach "meaningful" level as stated by DPM Tharman.
We are not likely to see the next wave in our property market for a longer time as discussed earlier in this thread. Property investment should be a part of your investment portfolio and not your only investment hoping to strike gold.
Unless there are concrete and effective actions taken, I am afraid that is going to be the case and economy will continue to be bad/weaken..............
My hypothesis: General Election is always called when the ground is most sweet........... This is especially when are looking at a GE that is not due until 2017 Feb........... If called in Sep 2015, that is like almost 1.5 years earlier!
My gut feeling is that they believe the ground is most sweet now compared to 1.5 years later, which tells me that they expect Singapore's economy will continue to be bearish going forward.......... :hurt:
The bulk not feeling pain? Mmm...., not when so much money has been thrown their way since last year and this year......... As you said, there is even a "Budget 2015" flyer to remind you how much money you have benefited from them! Everyone benefited (big or small)! But I am very scared because usually when big money has been thrown out like that, more will be collected back after the General Election in order to balance their budget and return to budget surplus (and how many times this had already happened before????!)........... Not sure whether many people will repent thereafter for taking the bait....................
Given that this year they have NOT rule out increasing GST or other so-called "wealth taxes" after the General Election despite many rumbling and queries/noises, so we should expect increase in GST or other so-called "wealth taxes" after the General Election to balance the budget to budget surplus?
i agree with bro kelonguni, the slowdown that we have been experiencing for the economy is more of consolidation than anything. bro TB, i feel it is too bearish to assume the economy will continue to weaken till 2020.
much as i have been a pessimist, i noticed that wage earners r all happy. the bulk of the population does not feel any pain or economic slowdown at all.
btw, do u guys receive email notifications when someone replies to this thread? i have not been receiving any email notifications since the website came back online. can someone teach me how to reset it?
I think with relaxing the measures may be a bit too late and ineffective now with the huge supplies of CONDO coming up. Yesterday's business time also reported. So I think air storm is on the way.
Actually I think no need to remove or relax measures, at most reduce ABSD to 3.5 or 5% is enough. There is a huge long queue saving up for the last few years to participate. Some have already made the move at current prices. The questions are who these people are and when they would commit.
bargain hunter
16-07-15, 15:03
but the idea is for price to fall (esp before elections) and cooling measures are meant to support the market then. so i don't feel that it is too late when the storm arrives. relaxing the cooling measures should not be done to support property prices at the current levels.
I think with relaxing the measures may be a bit too late and ineffective now with the huge supplies of CONDO coming up. Yesterday's business time also reported. So I think air storm is on the way.
Hope they understand the situation and don't anyhow commit now without strong liquidity because they will be sailing into the biggest storm of all times in coming recession (expected 2020 or thereafter)! Mark my words: Coming recession is going to be worst than what we have seen before!
Anyway, it's their call, but don't say I never warn............................. :peaceful:
Actually I think no need to remove or relax measures, at most reduce ABSD to 3.5 or 5% is enough. There is a huge long queue saving up for the last few years to participate. Some have already made the move at current prices. The questions are who these people are and when they would commit.
bargain hunter
16-07-15, 15:09
that's right. the idea of relaxing measures is not to create a new bull run. it is just to support after a bear run.
property investment has been around for so long. u r right that pple should not expect to strike gold, esp. in the short term. however, pple will still invest in property and collect rental, even if it means negative cash flow in the short term. i don't see anything wrong with that.
The government may remove some cooling measures which are no longer relevant such as SSD. However, I do not see why the government wants to remove any when the market is making a steady soft landing.
The government is not expected to relax any cooling measures until prices have reach "meaningful" level as stated by DPM Tharman.
We are not likely to see the next wave in our property market for a longer time as discussed earlier in this thread. Property investment should be a part of your investment portfolio and not your only investment hoping to strike gold.
Actually I think no need to remove or relax measures, at most reduce ABSD to 3.5 or 5% is enough. There is a huge long queue saving up for the last few years to participate. Some have already made the move at current prices. The questions are who these people are and when they would commit.
Some words of truth in this ... you see the High park Residences .. why pple queue like buying vegetable .... make me really stunned like vegetable
bargain hunter
16-07-15, 15:18
you may be right that things may weaken or turn worse next year, that is why chances are high that election is this year and not 2017. however, there r other factors to consider. calling it in 2017 may be too late if there's an extraordinary event in between.
holding the election in 2015 will also enable them to implement the concerte and effective actions that u hope to see next year.
u r right that they may be bearish on next year but that doesn't mean there are not going to do anything and just let it rot till the following election.
Unless there are concrete and effective actions taken, I am afraid that is going to be the case and economy will continue to be bad/weaken..............
My hypothesis: General Election is always called when the ground is most sweet........... This is especially when are looking at a GE that is not due until 2017 Feb........... If called in Sep 2015, that is like almost 1.5 years earlier!
My gut feeling is that they believe the ground is most sweet now compared to 1.5 years later, which tells me that they expect Singapore's economy will continue to be bearish going forward.......... :hurt:
The bulk not feeling pain? Mmm...., not when so much money has been thrown their way since last year and this year......... As you said, there is even a "Budget 2015" flyer to remind you how much money you have benefited from them! Everyone benefited (big or small)! But I am very scared because usually when big money has been thrown out like that, more will be collected back after the General Election in order to balance their budget and return to budget surplus (and how many times this had already happened before????!)........... Not sure whether many people will repent thereafter for taking the bait....................
Given that this year they have NOT rule out increasing GST or other so-called "wealth taxes" after the General Election despite many rumbling and queries/noises, so we should expect increase in GST or other so-called "wealth taxes" after the General Election to balance the budget to budget surplus?
Bears will always bears.
His hope is for OCR to crash while CCR stays the way it is as it has already crashed.
Let's wait and see what transpires and wish for the very best for him.
Singapore's economy is strongly affected by global economy.
Didn't they say that they can't do anything when Singapore's economy is bad just because the world's economy is real bad previously? Same now right?
US bearly recovering, China is slowdown, Europe has not even show signs of recovery yet, Greece event is hurting sentiment and Europe, Japan falls back after initial euphoria (seems unlikely to recover), .......... Singapore's economy looks bearish going forward. Life will be hard for Singaporeans going forward if they need to take bitter pills because bitter pills seldom benefit the majority of middle-income people (as they are only able to provide aid to the 10% or so lowest income group), like raise GST, implement some kind of new "wealth taxes" etc...........
you may be right that things may weaken or turn worse next year, that is why chances are high that election is this year and not 2017. however, there r other factors to consider. calling it in 2017 may be too late if there's an extraordinary event in between.
holding the election in 2015 will also enable them to implement the concerte and effective actions that u hope to see next year.
u r right that they may be bearish on next year but that doesn't mean there are not going to do anything and just let it rot till the following election.
Singapore's economy is strongly affected by global economy.
Didn't they say that they can't do anything when Singapore's economy is bad just because the world's economy is real bad previously? Same now right?
US bearly recovering, China is slowdown, Europe has not even show signs of recovery yet, Greece event is hurting sentiment and Europe, Japan falls back after initial euphoria (seems unlikely to recover), .......... Singapore's economy looks bearish going forward. Life will be hard for Singaporeans going forward if they need to take bitter pills because bitter pills seldom benefit the majority of middle-income people (as they are only able to provide aid to the 10% or so lowest income group), like raise GST, implement some kind of new "wealth taxes" etc...........
do you think with a bigger population, SG will not fall sick so easily. meaning there is a bigger domestic consumption and don't have to depend on other countries.. bigger population to challenge NY/London for No 1 position as a financial center and also the other industry area like medical?
人多好办事。
US bearly recovering, China is slowdown, Europe has not even show signs of recovery yet, Greece event is hurting sentiment and Europe, Japan falls back after initial euphoria (seems unlikely to recover), .......... Singapore's economy looks bearish going forward.
Given all the bears creeping around, do you think Fed will raise interest rates in a big way or a symbolic way?
Do include MERS as a risk as well.
that's right. the idea of relaxing measures is not to create a new bull run. it is just to support after a bear run.
property investment has been around for so long. u r right that pple should not expect to strike gold, esp. in the short term. however, pple will still invest in property and collect rental, even if it means negative cash flow in the short term. i don't see anything wrong with that.
That is exactly what I meant that property investment should be part of your investment portfolio and not your only investment hoping to strike gold.
From a friend who take action instead of talk only.
https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11745625_10153504120573875_4872431046568475032_n.jpg?oh=def228f6f30c4606fc013a18784f01f0&oe=561FC557
First time receiving a tax refund. Won't get such a deal in Spore. What to do with the extra cash?
This is how they give money.
Wasn't there a big hoo-ha and a big "No" from the people about having bigger population in Singapore? How???????
do you think with a bigger population, SG will not fall sick so easily. meaning there is a bigger domestic consumption and don't have to depend on other countries.. bigger population to challenge NY/London for No 1 position as a financial center and also the other industry area like medical?
人多好办事。
https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FSingaporeMatters%2Fvideos%2F788006751285720%2F&display=popup&ref=plugin
He take his life time to make it work and I pay SGD 535,000 for a 2 Bedroom beside the river. Thank you.
https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FSingaporeMatters%2Fvideos%2F788006751285720%2F&display=popup&ref=plugin
He take his life time to make it work and I pay SGD 535,000 for a 2 Bedroom beside the river. Thank you.
I have the utmost respect for him
Challenging half-year ahead
Thursday, Jul 16, 2015
Chia Yan Min
THE only forecast economists can make with any certainty these days is that of turbulent times ahead.
The Singapore economy shocked forecasters by growing just 1.7 per cent in April to June over the same period last year, according to advance estimates released on Tuesday by the Ministry of Trade and Industry.
This was significantly below the 2.6 per cent tipped by economists, and the slowest quarterly rate of expansion in three years.
..........................................
Economists are now looking ahead to the release of labour market data for the second quarter, due out at the end of this month.
Just 300 jobs were added in the first three months of this year, which left some economists surprised and worried, though others believed it was a one-off.
Some economists also expect the Government to narrow its forecast range for full-year growth to 2 to 3 per cent, from the current 2 to 4 per cent.
you may be right that things may weaken or turn worse next year, that is why chances are high that election is this year and not 2017. however, there r other factors to consider. calling it in 2017 may be too late if there's an extraordinary event in between.
holding the election in 2015 will also enable them to implement the concerte and effective actions that u hope to see next year.
u r right that they may be bearish on next year but that doesn't mean there are not going to do anything and just let it rot till the following election.
This government of ours has always been taking care of the rich because of the economic benefits the rich would add to our economy. However, in doing so, the rich have inflated assets prices leading to the watershed results in GE 2011. Hence, the government now shifted its position from centre-right to centre-left. With its centre-left policy, the poor would benefit more, the rich are somewhat "indifferent" but the middle income will always be at the loosing end be it centre-right or centre-left.
In a capitalism society, the poor are likely to remain poor while the rich are likely to become richer. The middle income have aspiration to become rich but find it tough to realise their aspirations. Hence, the government is seen helping the middle incomer to upgrade in term of making assets prices more affordable. Politically, this is one reason why asset prices cannot move faster than income because it will upset the middle middle income which make up about 60% of the population. From an economic perspective, assets prices rising faster than incomes will lead to a bubble economy and is not sustainable.
Taxes are the main source of revenue to any government. The move towards centre-left has lead to more progress taxes. GST appears to hit the middle income more than the poor and the rich.
I do agree with your thinking. The reason why government has to favor the rich is the they create value in terms of getting business etc to keep people employed. Bo Bian but true.
Given all the bears creeping around, do you think Fed will raise interest rates in a big way or a symbolic way?
Do include MERS as a risk as well.
I m betting it to raise a very small margin n keep it that way. But if the Singapore currency devalues...the sibor rates will raise higher too right?
i agree with bro kelonguni, the slowdown that we have been experiencing for the economy is more of consolidation than anything. bro TB, i feel it is too bearish to assume the economy will continue to weaken till 2020.
much as i have been a pessimist, i noticed that wage earners r all happy. the bulk of the population does not feel any pain or economic slowdown at all.
btw, do u guys receive email notifications when someone replies to this thread? i have not been receiving any email notifications since the website came back online. can someone teach me how to reset it?
Did u go to your my profile control panel to check your subscriptions? I do receive notifications.
Challenging half-year ahead
Thursday, Jul 16, 2015
Chia Yan Min
THE only forecast economists can make with any certainty these days is that of turbulent times ahead.
The Singapore economy shocked forecasters by growing just 1.7 per cent in April to June over the same period last year, according to advance estimates released on Tuesday by the Ministry of Trade and Industry.
This was significantly below the 2.6 per cent tipped by economists, and the slowest quarterly rate of expansion in three years.
..........................................
Economists are now looking ahead to the release of labour market data for the second quarter, due out at the end of this month.
Just 300 jobs were added in the first three months of this year, which left some economists surprised and worried, though others believed it was a one-off.
Some economists also expect the Government to narrow its forecast range for full-year growth to 2 to 3 per cent, from the current 2 to 4 per cent.
Talk cock lah. When the good times are here and price goes up like Q after Q didn't the economist forecast good times for Singapore? everything have cycle. So don't talk cock sing song lah. Currently we are entering the unwinding phase of the QE and $ out flow back to US is normal. But Asia economy are much stronger than they were 10 yrs ago.
So talk cock lah.. now whole asia is unwinding. Malaysia , Indo, Vietnam, Thai all are slow down. u think Singapore is immune? Talk until like only Singapore is impacted. If we are so bad how come our currency is still stronger than the neighbours verses USD?
So DONT TALK COCK peddling your BULLSHIT.
http://www.ipscommons.sg/budget-2015-the-next-lap-of-singapores-economic-restructuring/
We move into the next phases of economy restructure to stay ahead of the pack.
http://www.thebanker.com/Comment/Viewpoint/The-economic-restructuring-of-Singapore?ct=true
"The Singapore economy is facing a new paradigm. Externally, the extraordinarily loose monetary policies in advanced economies have created a wall of money that has led to a surge in credit growth and asset prices in many parts of Asia. Domestically, Singapore is heading towards a demographic cliff, with resident labour force growth declining and the capacity to absorb foreign labour reaching its limits, creating wage and cost pressures. "
And the same people peddling the bull shit singapore are doomed are the same bullshit people KPKB about to much people say NO. to augmenting the aging population with inflow to keep economy running up. The same bullshit being peddled that want it all. want growth and in the same breath kpkb say I don't need GDP growth and want to see less people etc. Everything have trade off Duhh!!!!!
Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
This government of ours has always been taking care of the rich because of the economic benefits the rich would add to our economy. However, in doing so, the rich have inflated assets prices leading to the watershed results in GE 2011. Hence, the government now shifted its position from centre-right to centre-left. With its centre-left policy, the poor would benefit more, the rich are somewhat "indifferent" but the middle income will always be at the loosing end be it centre-right or centre-left.
In a capitalism society, the poor are likely to remain poor while the rich are likely to become richer. The middle income have aspiration to become rich but find it tough to realise their aspirations. Hence, the government is seen helping the middle incomer to upgrade in term of making assets prices more affordable. Politically, this is one reason why asset prices cannot move faster than income because it will upset the middle middle income which make up about 60% of the population. From an economic perspective, assets prices rising faster than incomes will lead to a bubble economy and is not sustainable.
Taxes are the main source of revenue to any government. The move towards centre-left has lead to more progress taxes. GST appears to hit the middle income more than the poor and the rich.
I do agree with your thinking. The reason why government has to favor the rich is the they create value in terms of getting business etc to keep people employed. Bo Bian but true.
I dont agree that the poor remain poor . The Government need to groom the economy and defiantly the rich who comes that contribute to the economy will also pull through jobs for the population. and there are many levelling playing field . Where in the world you are entitle a HDB which is a assest that will also grow with the country? And where 40% of the population pay tax and where the top 10 % of the population pay 80% of the tax. ?
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-budget-2015-personal-income-tax-for-top-5-of-earners-to-be-raised-says-tharman
Immigration curbs here to stay despite falling economic growth: Morgan Stanley
Strong growth isn’t so important now.
Singapore’s stringent immigration curbs are here to stay despite the toll that it has taken on headline economic growth.
According to a report by Morgan Stanley, immigration policies will not be loosened anytime soon because Singapore no longer has need for extremely strong growth.
“Contrary to speculation about a potential loosening in immigration policy post the election, we think the slowdown in immigration intake is structural and here to stay. Growth is a means to an end. Strong growth was required previously to lift living standards, lower unemployment and meet developmental objectives," the report noted.
"However now, with already high wealth levels and a tight labour market, the economic rationale for strong growth becomes less compelling and socioeconomic and political considerations for the side-effects of fast immigration are likely to become correspondingly more important,” Morgan Stanley stated.
The report added that Singapore is also unlikely to move to the other end of the spectrum and adopt a net zero immigration policy.
“We think this would not be economically realistic as Singapore’s low indigenous birth rate means that the overall working age population would decline by -0.1% CAGR from now until 2020 and keeping the labour import strategy alive would be instrumental in sustaining GDP growth at a reasonable level to fund the social/healthcare needs of an ageing population,” Morgan Stanley said.
Let's face it: CCR has already crashed (as you admitted), dropping >20% to >30%,
AND you expect that OCR private property prices can hold at current price which is just barely 5% below historical PEAK price when every quarter the price is like dropping about 1+%?
That must have been the most wishful thinking or lie! Talk of being hypocrite and propagating self-interests, this is the best example!
Bears will always bears.
His hope is for OCR to crash while CCR stays the way it is as it has already crashed.
Let's wait and see what transpires and wish for the very best for him.
Tax for top 5% earners to be raised? Oh my god!
Those marginal earners, like those earning only $160,000 per year also get hit!
Think, who benefited from the 13% income tax cut from 33% to 20%?
If need to raise income tax, just raise those earning >$1M a year from 20% to 33% can already! Please, no more hitting the middle-income, not those earning $160,000 a year! $160,000 is not even worth a peanut!
HDB flat is an asset? Ha ha ha! What a joke! Who own the land your HDB flat sits on hah? Oh yes, an asset that is yours for ONLY 99 years! Ha ha ha!
40% of the population pay tax and where top 10% of the population pay 80% of the tax? This simply tells us that Singaporeans as a bunch mostly earn low income and the top people are just earning "obscene" income so obviously they need to pay more! Earn more income, pay more taxes, 天经地义!
I dont agree that the poor remain poor . The Government need to groom the economy and defiantly the rich who comes that contribute to the economy will also pull through jobs for the population. and there are many levelling playing field . Where in the world you are entitle a HDB which is a assest that will also grow with the country? And where 40% of the population pay tax and where the top 10 % of the population pay 80% of the tax. ?
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-budget-2015-personal-income-tax-for-top-5-of-earners-to-be-raised-says-tharman
Let's face it: CCR has already crashed (as you admitted), dropping >20% to >30%,
AND you expect that OCR private property prices can hold at current price which is just barely 5% below historical PEAK price when every quarter the price is like dropping about 1+%?
That must have been the most wishful thinking or lie! Talk of being hypocrite and propagating self-interests, this is the best example!
I was paraphrasing your words in case you were unaware. My viewpoint has always been the closing of the gap for very good reasons. Have explained enough times, up to you whether you want to believe. For the record, with the current TDSR in place permanently, I expect the gap from CCR to RCR to be no more than 150psf and RCR to OCR to be another 150psf to 200max. Average long term trend.
watchlist88
16-07-15, 22:51
Wow ... firstly I must say very interesting writeups here. I agree mostly what the thought and insights from Leeds. There are similar principles whether investing in property or stocks except that property is not a liquid asset, you can't get rid of it quick and fast enough if conditions turn for the worse. In stocks, we look for earnings potential and the Price-Earnings ratio , commonly called PE ratio. In property, we should watch out for Price-Income ratio, what I term as PI ratio. Buy at high PE ratio for stocks or high PI ratio for property, you better tread carefully because you did not buy with a 'margin of safety' , a term renownly used by Warren Buffett. And better diversify and don't put all your eggs into just 1 basket, eg property plays.
watchlist88
16-07-15, 23:17
Government has stepped in with CM, prevented property bubble, and luckily we had a soft landing for property market. But government also said prices had not corrected to meaningful levels yet so we have a hint that PI ratio is still high. At least for me, skipping property plays for now till I can sense a reasonable PI ratio. Till then, take my monies invest elsewhere better lor .... hehe ....
Government has stepped in with CM, prevented property bubble, and luckily we had a soft landing for property market. But government also said prices had not corrected to meaningful levels yet so we have a hint that PI ratio is still high. At least for me, skipping property plays for now till I can sense a reasonable PI ratio. Till then, take my monies invest elsewhere better lor .... hehe ....
The situation is rather complex here. I think Arcachon can explain better.
Property play seems similar to companies or stock play but is vastly different.
But like previously discussed, if cannot find a good reason for it, then its better not to touch it until the reason is figured out. Wish you all the very best.
I may be paying more petrol taxes but knowing the bigger purpose of it, I'm not balking. If you are qualified, would suggest you contribute more than just CAPs as it may appear that empty vessels do make the most noise. If you do feel so much for the poor, do join me to give out free food over some weekends as we do need volunteers like you.
Good stuff! kindness is gold and this society needs more of it than ever as a country progresses.
OCR and CCR gap narrowing? History tells us that it is always temporary (had happened before, and will happened again, i.e. will widen again significantly in future, UNLESS the general population and those middle-income earners has wage increment of 10% to >20% every year PERSISTENTLY like the top earners and the rich)................
And another thing I am sure for now is:
- OCR private property prices at >$1000 psf is not tenable because the people living in the heartland, their income are not increasing with the poor Singapore's economy and cannot even beat the REAL inflation rate.........
So, expect OCR private property prices to continue to slide further and further until 2020 (or thereafter) when a recession arrives on shore again...........
Mark my words: Singapore's private property market is dead and on down-trend, regardless of OCR or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, OCR will be WORST HIT going forward into 2017............ :teapot:
I was paraphrasing your words in case you were unaware. My viewpoint has always been the closing of the gap for very good reasons. Have explained enough times, up to you whether you want to believe. For the record, with the current TDSR in place permanently, I expect the gap from CCR to RCR to be no more than 150psf and RCR to OCR to be another 150psf to 200max. Average long term trend.
Brother, history of SG never had TDSR (permanent measure). History of Singapore never had 6.9 million.
Also, you truly underestimate the heartlands.
Never drive looking at the rear view mirror constantly.
OCR and CCR gap narrowing? History tells us that it is always temporary (had happened before, and will happened again, i.e. will widen again significantly in future, UNLESS the general population and those middle-income earners has wage increment of 10% to >20% every year PERSISTENTLY like the top earners and the rich)................
And another thing I am sure for now is:
- OCR private property prices at >$1000 psf is not tenable because the people living in the heartland, their income are not increasing with the poor Singapore's economy and cannot even beat the REAL inflation rate.........
So, expect OCR private property prices to continue to slide further and further until 2020 (or thereafter) when a recession arrives on shore again...........
Mark my words: Singapore's private property market is dead and on down-trend, regardless of OCR or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, OCR will be WORST HIT going forward into 2017............ :teapot:
What teddybear said is correct, if income is falling, the Singapore economy performs poorly, and all else such as population, cooling measures remain the same, then property prices will continue to fall till 2017, 2020 and beyond.
You have to decide for yourself whether you believe income will fall, Singapore economy will perform poorly, population and cooling measures will stay the same etc.
As for me, I believe there is a good chance that income will continue to rise, Singapore economy will out-perform the region, population will likely increase and cooling measures will be tweaked slightly. On the other hand, interest rate will go up but with paper money continuing to lose its value due to massive QE continuing in Europe and Japan, maybe China as well. On balance, if you have the cash, and don't like other investment such as stock and bonds, it is still better parking in property compared to keeping it in the bank.
Brother, history of SG never had TDSR (permanent measure). History of Singapore never had 6.9 million.
Also, you truly underestimate the heartlands.
Never drive looking at the rear view mirror constantly.
the BEAR is full of shit lah... only stupid will believe him ah.... listen to him is like some noise from a dying motor going Fart Fart Fart......
Wow ... firstly I must say very interesting writeups here. I agree mostly what the thought and insights from Leeds. There are similar principles whether investing in property or stocks except that property is not a liquid asset, you can't get rid of it quick and fast enough if conditions turn for the worse. In stocks, we look for earnings potential and the Price-Earnings ratio , commonly called PE ratio. In property, we should watch out for Price-Income ratio, what I term as PI ratio. Buy at high PE ratio for stocks or high PI ratio for property, you better tread carefully because you did not buy with a 'margin of safety' , a term renownly used by Warren Buffett. And better diversify and don't put all your eggs into just 1 basket, eg property plays.
different is the leverage. Property allow post people to leverage and even use CPF to leverage into property. while stocks not every can get a margin acct and there is a limit on the leverage. in addition the finance cost of a margin acct is much higher than a property loan plus the risk of a margin call on stocks volatility. thus over the last few years of low interest a lot of $$ are pilled into the property. with impending int increase and end of QE. the will no doubt be some unwinding.
OCR and CCR gap narrowing? History tells us that it is always temporary (had happened before, and will happened again, i.e. will widen again significantly in future, UNLESS the general population and those middle-income earners has wage increment of 10% to >20% every year PERSISTENTLY like the top earners and the rich)................
And another thing I am sure for now is:
- OCR private property prices at >$1000 psf is not tenable because the people living in the heartland, their income are not increasing with the poor Singapore's economy and cannot even beat the REAL inflation rate.........
So, expect OCR private property prices to continue to slide further and further until 2020 (or thereafter) when a recession arrives on shore again...........
Mark my words: Singapore's private property market is dead and on down-trend, regardless of OCR or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, OCR will be WORST HIT going forward into 2017............ :teapot:
Mark your words??? WHAT A JOKE OF THE DAY!! your words are like PRATA!!! FLIPPING AS IT FLY THROUGH THE AIR!
TALK BULL SHIT People in the heartland dont need to RENT. so regardless property price in the heartland >1000psf are not tenable are a load of crap. if OCR is not tenable then CCR is will get it even worst then.
wow slide until 2020.. what a bold bullshit. what you looking though your BALL? s?
Immigration curbs here to stay despite falling economic growth: Morgan Stanley
Strong growth isn’t so important now.
Singapore’s stringent immigration curbs are here to stay despite the toll that it has taken on headline economic growth.
According to a report by Morgan Stanley, immigration policies will not be loosened anytime soon because Singapore no longer has need for extremely strong growth.
“Contrary to speculation about a potential loosening in immigration policy post the election, we think the slowdown in immigration intake is structural and here to stay. Growth is a means to an end. Strong growth was required previously to lift living standards, lower unemployment and meet developmental objectives," the report noted.
"However now, with already high wealth levels and a tight labour market, the economic rationale for strong growth becomes less compelling and socioeconomic and political considerations for the side-effects of fast immigration are likely to become correspondingly more important,” Morgan Stanley stated.
The report added that Singapore is also unlikely to move to the other end of the spectrum and adopt a net zero immigration policy.
“We think this would not be economically realistic as Singapore’s low indigenous birth rate means that the overall working age population would decline by -0.1% CAGR from now until 2020 and keeping the labour import strategy alive would be instrumental in sustaining GDP growth at a reasonable level to fund the social/healthcare needs of an ageing population,” Morgan Stanley said.
Well when people are doing well have food on table. have money in pocket will KPKB say growth not important. when things start going south like Greece lets see if growth is important a not lor.
Tax for top 5% earners to be raised? Oh my god!
Those marginal earners, like those earning only $160,000 per year also get hit!
Think, who benefited from the 13% income tax cut from 33% to 20%?
If need to raise income tax, just raise those earning >$1M a year from 20% to 33% can already! Please, no more hitting the middle-income, not those earning $160,000 a year! $160,000 is not even worth a peanut!
HDB flat is an asset? Ha ha ha! What a joke! Who own the land your HDB flat sits on hah? Oh yes, an asset that is yours for ONLY 99 years! Ha ha ha!
40% of the population pay tax and where top 10% of the population pay 80% of the tax? This simply tells us that Singaporeans as a bunch mostly earn low income and the top people are just earning "obscene" income so obviously they need to pay more! Earn more income, pay more taxes, 天经地义!
WOW I JUST HAD KOPI AND I SAW THIS BULLSHIT .. Why I am not surprised leh for some one who like ASS.
1stly 160K is middle income like you say so mtly earn 13.3K pm is middle income wow!!!! where you plug that FACT out? From your ASS? coz last I heard middle income are people earning 3.5-4K pm each. and those people dont pay much tax! and 160K are consider high income like you say earn more pay more tax ! 天经地义 ! at 13.3K middle income SINGAPOREAN ARE ALL VERY RICH!! comparing what our MY neighbor earns. a average $600 pm !!! With so many people earn so much no wonder they dont feel they are richer coz everyone is doing well and tax little!!!!!
2nd which hole u plug out sgp tax is 33%? down to 20%? What a lie! its now at 22% for coming assessment! So don't peddle your bullshit here. and 22% are for those earning 320K and above! even ur high earner at 160K only pay 15% tax! So high earners are tax much more!
3rd HDB not assets? So can you sell me your HDB at $1? Coz it worthless mah!! PUT YOUR $$ WHERE YOUR GAP IS DONT TALK COCK. Peopel derive rent out of their HDB, Capital gain to use for education or business or even upgrade. So dont come peddle your CRAP its not a assest. Not Assest pls sell it to us at $1 pls.
4thly top 10% are paying 80% of the tax already. tax them more they leave coz high income earners are very mobile they can just go HK. So net net who lost? Go and tax the next level of rich? the 160K folks? and CRAP like you KPKB say tax them already? WAT BULL YOU SAY SINGAPOREAN ARE LOW INCOME EARNERS? YOU already say medium income earn 160K !! IS THAT IN YOUR SHIT COVERED EYES LOW? GET DOWN FROM YOUR IVORY TOWER AND COMPARE IT WITH OUR NEIGHBOURS!
SO IN SHORT WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT FROM YOU!
Amber Woods
17-07-15, 18:11
different is the leverage. Property allow post people to leverage and even use CPF to leverage into property. while stocks not every can get a margin acct and there is a limit on the leverage. in addition the finance cost of a margin acct is much higher than a property loan plus the risk of a margin call on stocks volatility. thus over the last few years of low interest a lot of $$ are pilled into the property. with impending int increase and end of QE. the will no doubt be some unwinding.
Agree that the good thing about buying property is that you could use CPF to leverage.
If I have 300K in cash and have to invest now, I would prefer to buy some QUALITY bonds for say 5% coupon. If I can get financing at 50%, I could buy 500K of bond with just 250K in cash. My return would be about $20,000 pa after deducting the interest.
On the other hand, if I will to buy an investment property in OCR for $1m with 500K loan and with the other 500K from my cash and CPF, my return would be about $30,000 assuming 3% from rental. Less off my interest, maintenance cost and the opportunity cost of lost interest from my CPF and Cash, I will be worst off than buying bonds. I will also likely to risk seeing my property's value falling over the next few years.
What Leeds was saying made a lot of financial sense. Property should be a part of your investment portfolio and not your only investment going forward. Of course if OCR prices dive like some of the properties in CCR, the equation will change. For now and the foreseeable future, it makes sense to stay away from property even if we have the cash to invest.
If in need of housing urgently or in a few years, this half year is the most ideal.
No need to rush cos lots of supply, can slowly beo, but if something you like, I don't think the price drop forward will really be meaningful, if any.
I am looking forward to Singapore Savings bond coming out soon.
Agree that the good thing about buying property is that you could use CPF to leverage.
If I have 300K in cash and have to invest now, I would prefer to buy some QUALITY bonds for say 5% coupon. If I can get financing at 50%, I could buy 500K of bond with just 250K in cash. My return would be about $20,000 pa after deducting the interest.
On the other hand, if I will to buy an investment property in OCR for $1m with 500K loan and with the other 500K from my cash and CPF, my return would be about $30,000 assuming 3% from rental. Less off my interest, maintenance cost and the opportunity cost of lost interest from my CPF and Cash, I will be worst off than buying bonds. I will also likely to risk seeing my property's value falling over the next few years.
What Leeds was saying made a lot of financial sense. Property should be a part of your investment portfolio and not your only investment going forward. Of course if OCR prices dive like some of the properties in CCR, the equation will change. For now and the foreseeable future, it makes sense to stay away from property even if we have the cash to invest.
Singapore Savings bond.
This is how I understand what is this.
I print some paper and you use money to exchange ownership for it in this case electronic paper( don't need ink paper and machine).
When you remove the Bank the right to print money and you start to print money, is it also call print money ?
Agree that the good thing about buying property is that you could use CPF to leverage.
If I have 300K in cash and have to invest now, I would prefer to buy some QUALITY bonds for say 5% coupon. If I can get financing at 50%, I could buy 500K of bond with just 250K in cash. My return would be about $20,000 pa after deducting the interest.
On the other hand, if I will to buy an investment property in OCR for $1m with 500K loan and with the other 500K from my cash and CPF, my return would be about $30,000 assuming 3% from rental. Less off my interest, maintenance cost and the opportunity cost of lost interest from my CPF and Cash, I will be worst off than buying bonds. I will also likely to risk seeing my property's value falling over the next few years.
What Leeds was saying made a lot of financial sense. Property should be a part of your investment portfolio and not your only investment going forward. Of course if OCR prices dive like some of the properties in CCR, the equation will change. For now and the foreseeable future, it makes sense to stay away from property even if we have the cash to invest.
Amber seems to understand the economics of asset investments. Keep it up, you should be doing well in building up or preserving your wealth whichever stage of your life in are in now.
Since history do not lie, we can look back to note that the rich and the foreign investors started to invest in CCR between 2006 and 2010. In 2011, prices in OCR already started to soften.
However, the middle income and less savvy foreign investors just started to invest in OCR and RCR between 2009 to 2012. When I suggested in late 2011 and 2012 to sell some of your investments especially for those highly leveraged investors, I was being called names.
Many of the rich had already sold off their investments between 2011 and 2013 in OCR. More properties in OCR are now in the market and they were mostly bought in 2006 onward. Most of these owners will be selling at a lost, but these rich people knows what they are doing. Rather than holding on to an asset falling in values over the longer term, they would rather cut losses and invest in other assets class or properties elsewhere. Many foreigners are not likely to loose much due to the appreciation of Sing $ over the years.
Between 2013 and now, prices in OCR and RCR started to soften but at a much slower pace because developers are still chucking out smaller and compact units which make them affordable. OCR buyers are generally buyers buying for own stay so they are not particular about the high price in term of psf they are paying. They look at affordability. Many of the investors who invest in OCR are not savvy investors and they also jump in to buy because these small and compact units are affordable.
Even though we are seeing some rich individuals and foreigners cherry picking at some distress properties in CCR now, there is no clear sign that prices would not soften further. Nevertheless, these rich people know what they are doing and certainly their objective is to preserved their wealth. They could afford to see prices soften by another 20% without feeling uneasy.
Prices in OCR and RCR should continue to soften and there is much room for prices to correct. With prices in OCR taken a beating, with expected hike in interest rate and low rental yield, the rich and upper middle income are not likely to touch OCR and RCR properties for a much longer time.
The middle income are starting to feel the fear of buying now because "not many people are buying". These group of people will only buy when everyone is buying. Of course, there are also many people who have not choice but to buy now because they need a home even though they know it is not the right time to buy.
As I mentioned in this thread, 2015 may well be your last opportunity (for those who are highly-leveraged) to off load their investment properties. You may make little profit, no profit or suffer small losses, it may well turn up to be a good call.
Like what Amber did, she prefers to leverage on good quality bonds instead even if she has cash to spare.
I too held the view that OCR prices north of $1k psf seems high. It is amazing that some OCR units went for in excess of $1.5k psf. These are not isolated transactions but are transactions for hundreds of units. I checked out Highpark Residences in Sengkang West yesterday. To me, Sengkang West is as OCR as one can get. This is a 1399 units development. It was opened for sale over the long weekend from July 17. In two days, the developer sold more than 1000 units, averaging $1k psf. Also sold were four 254 sq.m. strata bungalows at about $2.5m a piece. $2.5m for 99 years leasehold property in Sengkang West?
Perhaps, the property market is much harder to read now compared to the past.
This whole thing is confusing.......
Do people
1. Buy when prices drop
Or
2. Buy when prices increase....
Hahahahahaha
Those who sold, they now have to wait for absd to be abolished to buy again..... If not, have to pay absd......
If 1 can hold a property for 30 years, the tenant would have paid for the loan amount of the property (if not all, the bulk of it)... In some cases, tenant pay all the loan and you also have surplus)...
So simple and yet people fail to understand this.....
I agree it is very confusing but I sense that ABSD is no longer a major deterrent in people's decision to purchase. 7% or 10% ABSD is just added to the price to determine affordability and yield. I know of several people paying ABSD including one on employment pass paying ABSD of 15%. He explained that he will hold the property for the long term, and if he held it for 15 years, it is just 1% per year. I am not too convinced with his logic, but it is worth taking into account.
It's funny how foreigners value our properties much more than we ourselves do.
I remember asking people to deleverage in 2013 and 2014 because of TDSR. It is designed to counter multiple asset purchases. But the aim was never to stop first property purchases by genuine and prudent buyers who for some reason can't buy HDB.
My prediction is that buyers can take the next 3 years to observe the so called excess supply being soaked up. It won't be fast so no rush. It will be OCR followed by RCR followed by CCR (provided transport woes are settled well). The real heat will take about 5 to 10 years to reach CCR (if at all).
The only disclaimer is provided the Govt doesn't suddenly change the game by tweaking anything significantly.
I have a colleague who has a private property too, PRC PR. His words were "If banks lend me, I will buy another unit and pay whatever taxes." Another Singaporean paid over 200k for second private property. Many other more normal examples.
I am also wanting to get a 2nd property too. The high park residence has proven 1 point housing is still cheap!
This whole thing is confusing.......
Do people
1. Buy when prices drop
Or
2. Buy when prices increase....
Hahahahahaha
Those who sold, they now have to wait for absd to be abolished to buy again..... If not, have to pay absd......
If 1 can hold a property for 30 years, the tenant would have paid for the loan amount of the property (if not all, the bulk of it)... In some cases, tenant pay all the loan and you also have surplus)...
So simple and yet people fail to understand this.....
As long we treat property as a separate assest class there is up or down. as long have the ability hold it would be ok. its people who over leverage that are having fear when there are down turn thus need to run for the exit. and there are also those short term holders. anyay with the ABDS flippers are all gone.
minority,
Don't bull-shit and trying to tell all kinds of lies here, you are worst then the 130+ news media.................
Let's see, you say $160k per year income is high-income and need to pay more tax?
Ok, we also know that Ministers earn $2000k per year income. So if you are saying that $160k per year is high-income, then you are telling us that $2000k per year income to you is OBSCENE-INCOME? Can't be right?! (since you are the strongest PAP flag carrier, BUT unfortunately only a brown-tonguer, a liar with no integrity, no honesty, and no moral character that can't even call a sheep a sheep and must twist to become a "horse" and trying hard to get into good book...............)
Don't forget, $2000k / $160k = 12.5x
We also know that the minimum wage in Singapore is $1k per month, or $14k per year (assuming the worker gets a 13th month bonus and another 1 month bonus).
Then, $160k (middle-income) / $14k (low-income) = 11.4x
So, we definitely cannot put $2000k per year income in the same "income category" as $160k per year income (just like we cannot put $160k per year income with $14k per year income in the same "income category")................
In this case, the only reasonable conclusion we can made here is that $2000k per year income is HIGH-INCOME, and hence $160k per year income can only be labelled as "MIDDLE-INCOME", simple as that! :dog:
And minority,
please STOP all you lying...... You are telling us that top-income earners never pay 33% income tax in Singapore before? Well, they have it so good to have their income tax cut from 33% before 1994 (before implementation of GST) to now 20%! And even more, their corporate taxes have been cut from 30% before 1994 to now 17%! In absolute terms, top-income earners' income have multiplied many many times since 1994! Go look at the income statistics over the years!
And another of your lie, that HDB flat is an asset....................
According to the regulations of HDB flats, a HDB flat "owner" is not really an owner, but just a "leasee" with only 99-years lease, and anyway the land is owned by the government and leased to HDB flat owners for 99-years, so it is clear that HDB flat "owners" (actually is "leasee" to be more exact) leased the HDB flats from the government for 99 years, and HDB flat is never "owned" by the "owners", but just "leased" by the "leasee" (but news media like to call them "owners" to give them some high-hat and make them feel "prouder")..........
And furthermore, government is seriously concerned about HDB flat prices for past few years, particularly resale HDB flats' price escalation, thus enacting new regulations which makes making profit from HDB flats by buying in BTO and selling in resale market over, and people should just learn to treat HDB flats as an "expense" that will depreciate to ZERO in 99 years, not "asset" (which can allow them to make profit). Anyway, government didn't create HDB flats for people to flip for profit...............
So what if top 10% are paying 80% of the taxes?
Really, if you look at the income statistics over the years, the top-income earners' income have multiplied many many OBSCENE times since 1994 (while the low-income's income has barely increased with inflation rate)!
Because of such facts, I and many others believe that this phenomenon (that now top 10% are paying 80% of the taxes) is happening is mainly because the RICH-POOR gap has become too wide, because the rich and those in power (who can decide and/or influence their own salaries and bonuses and perks etc) are paying themselves OBSCENE salaries and bonuses, not to mention all kind of allowances and perks and SQUEEZING the middle-income and lower-income salaried people under their pay-rolls. For example, the current SMRT CEO is already getting highest pay package of all previous CEOs so far, yet SMRT trains are still breaking down frequently, and there is no improvement at all! Then, why is he getting much higher pay than previous CEOs? For ensuring that SMRT trains keep breaking down? This basically tells us about the ILLs happening in Singapore, and all about paying more for performance sounds bull-shit, just like this SMRT case!
Now, if you think or they think they are paying too much taxes (despite paying themselves so much pay for not achieving the performance improvement etc), why not just ask them to take home less salaries, less bonuses, less perks and less allowances etc, and distribute more money to their subordinates? Well, if they distribute so much more to their subordinates, their subordinates may end up paying more taxes than them! Then, we will have top 10% earners paying just 30% of the taxes or even less! That may sounds like a pretty good idea and good deal to you and those "obscene"-income people who complained about paying too much income taxes already?
This is actually what is happening in Finland! And the reason? Their typical CEOs only earns an annual salary of about EUR500k, their Prime Minister only get an annual salary of EUR180k............... Oh, we didn't see those Finnish CEOs and talents leaving Finland........... They are still 1 of the top most innovative countries in the world.......... And for a Prime Minister with a salary of only EUR180k per year income, Finland is the least corrupt country in the world by world-ranking, less corrupt in ranking than Singapore (If my memory did not fail me)....................... :applause:
So, all the facts above point to 1 single FACT: That you are full of bull shits covering your eyes, and you are telling lots of lies to try to mislead everybody in Singapore and even the world, SAME like you lies about GST, eg saying Singapore's GST of 7% is much lower than UK's 20%.................. FULL of bullshit! Why don't you also tell all of us honestly that UK's VAT (equivalent of GST) fully exempts all basic necessities, children necessities and medical stuffs etc?! :gun4:
WOW I JUST HAD KOPI AND I SAW THIS BULLSHIT .. Why I am not surprised leh for some one who like ASS.
1stly 160K is middle income like you say so mtly earn 13.3K pm is middle income wow!!!! where you plug that FACT out? From your ASS? coz last I heard middle income are people earning 3.5-4K pm each. and those people dont pay much tax! and 160K are consider high income like you say earn more pay more tax ! 天经地义 ! at 13.3K middle income SINGAPOREAN ARE ALL VERY RICH!! comparing what our MY neighbor earns. a average $600 pm !!! With so many people earn so much no wonder they dont feel they are richer coz everyone is doing well and tax little!!!!!
2nd which hole u plug out sgp tax is 33%? down to 20%? What a lie! its now at 22% for coming assessment! So don't peddle your bullshit here. and 22% are for those earning 320K and above! even ur high earner at 160K only pay 15% tax! So high earners are tax much more!
3rd HDB not assets? So can you sell me your HDB at $1? Coz it worthless mah!! PUT YOUR $$ WHERE YOUR GAP IS DONT TALK COCK. Peopel derive rent out of their HDB, Capital gain to use for education or business or even upgrade. So dont come peddle your CRAP its not a assest. Not Assest pls sell it to us at $1 pls.
4thly top 10% are paying 80% of the tax already. tax them more they leave coz high income earners are very mobile they can just go HK. So net net who lost? Go and tax the next level of rich? the 160K folks? and CRAP like you KPKB say tax them already? WAT BULL YOU SAY SINGAPOREAN ARE LOW INCOME EARNERS? YOU already say medium income earn 160K !! IS THAT IN YOUR SHIT COVERED EYES LOW? GET DOWN FROM YOUR IVORY TOWER AND COMPARE IT WITH OUR NEIGHBOURS!
SO IN SHORT WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT FROM YOU!
Tax for top 5% earners to be raised? Oh my god!
Those marginal earners, like those earning only $160,000 per year also get hit!
Think, who benefited from the 13% income tax cut from 33% to 20%?
If need to raise income tax, just raise those earning >$1M a year from 20% to 33% can already! Please, no more hitting the middle-income, not those earning $160,000 a year! $160,000 is not even worth a peanut!
HDB flat is an asset? Ha ha ha! What a joke! Who own the land your HDB flat sits on hah? Oh yes, an asset that is yours for ONLY 99 years! Ha ha ha!
40% of the population pay tax and where top 10% of the population pay 80% of the tax? This simply tells us that Singaporeans as a bunch mostly earn low income and the top people are just earning "obscene" income so obviously they need to pay more! Earn more income, pay more taxes, 天经地义!
Relax leh, don't use red and bold fonts. So emotional how to be calm in making the most well considered decisions?
We can't change the system, only can calculate and consider our personal best step based on what our system has. I wish you all calmness and peace.
minority,
And another of your lie, that HDB flat is an asset....................
According to the regulations of HDB flats, a HDB flat "owner" is not really an owner, but just a "leasee" with only 99-years lease, and anyway the land is owned by the government and leased to HDB flat owners for 99-years, so it is clear that HDB flat "owners" (actually is "leasee" to be more exact) leased the HDB flats from the government for 99 years, and HDB flat is never "owned" by the "owners", but just "leased" by the "leasee" (but news media like to call them "owners" to give them some high-hat and make them feel "prouder")..........
Sorry, one thing I don't quite understand, why HDB is not the owner's asset when he/she used his/her money to purchase it even though it is 99 years, If not how can they still sell off their HDB within these 99 years. Maybe if said the land does not belong to them, I understand but why the house still does not belong to them when they have fully paid. If that's the case, that means that EC owners and private ppty owners (99 years) are also not the owners of their property even though they have fully paid? So is it better to buy freehold property? If rent direct from HDB and pay only a small amount of money to HDB monthly, then I understand it is not the asset of the stayer but if bought it with our CPF or cash, why still not our asset???
According to his method of counting, anything that is not FH CCR is not an asset.
Sorry, one thing I don't quite understand, why HDB is not the owner's asset when he/she used his/her money to purchase it even though it is 99 years, If not how can they still sell off their HDB within these 99 years. Maybe if said the land does not belong to them, I understand but why the house still does not belong to them when they have fully paid. If that's the case, that means that EC owners and private ppty owners (99 years) are also not the owners of their property even though they have fully paid? So is it better to buy freehold property? If rent direct from HDB and pay only a small amount of money to HDB monthly, then I understand it is not the asset of the stayer but if bought it with our CPF or cash, why still not our asset???
Do you get a HDB deed of title/ownership after you fully paid up your HDB flat?
According to HDB regulations (it was mentioned in this forum before I think), HDB flats' "owners" are really just "leasees".........
Sorry, one thing I don't quite understand, why HDB is not the owner's asset when he/she used his/her money to purchase it even though it is 99 years, If not how can they still sell off their HDB within these 99 years. Maybe if said the land does not belong to them, I understand but why the house still does not belong to them when they have fully paid. If that's the case, that means that EC owners and private ppty owners (99 years) are also not the owners of their property even though they have fully paid? So is it better to buy freehold property? If rent direct from HDB and pay only a small amount of money to HDB monthly, then I understand it is not the asset of the stayer but if bought it with our CPF or cash, why still not our asset???
This whole thing is confusing.......
Do people
1. Buy when prices drop
Or
2. Buy when prices increase....
Hahahahahaha
Those who sold, they now have to wait for absd to be abolished to buy again..... If not, have to pay absd......
If 1 can hold a property for 30 years, the tenant would have paid for the loan amount of the property (if not all, the bulk of it)... In some cases, tenant pay all the loan and you also have surplus)...
So simple and yet people fail to understand this.....
I agree with Chestnut. so simple and I don't understand why need to have economics theory here and there. There are things in life don't need so many theory lar.. don't over read this and that and in the end do nothing.
We cannot time the market. As long as we have holding power, let it go down lar.. it will come up eventually.. the cycle may takes a few years. So if you have spare cash, instead of waiting and waiting, do some investment lar ..if you decide not to do anything then, just shut up . why must talk down the market and give free economic advice.. you think people don't have economic sense?
And if you buy and are in the market, also shut up lar.. don't need to everyday come here and talk up the market.
Do you get a HDB deed of title/ownership after you fully paid up your HDB flat?
According to HDB regulations (it was mentioned in this forum before I think), HDB flats' "owners" are really just "leasees".........
Actually you do have a deed after fully paying. But it's better to leave with HDB rather than keep at home. That deed is valid for the remaining of the 99 years.
Lessees is the word actually bro. Technically the land and unit has to be returned after 99 years. But within the 80 to 90 years after you pay up, you can keep the rent of minimum 2k plus per month, or let 2.5 generations of yourself and children, grandchildren utilise its value.
It's still much of an asset that fully serves it's purpose in your lifetime.
I think can agar agar time but cannot perfectly time the market. Much like COE.
But it is fine to either talk up or down the market, presenting clearly the rationale for doing so. If not, don't need forum already. Most importantly is to stay on track and follow the discussion instead of coming up with emotional responses.
If not, readers coming in will feel bored and then it degenerates into silent forum - what then is the purpose of the forum?
I agree with Chestnut. so simple and I don't understand why need to have economics theory here and there. There are things in life don't need so many theory lar.. don't over read this and that and in the end do nothing.
We cannot time the market. As long as we have holding power, let it go down lar.. it will come up eventually.. the cycle may takes a few years. So if you have spare cash, instead of waiting and waiting, do some investment lar ..if you decide not to do anything then, just shut up . why must talk down the market and give free economic advice.. you think people don't have economic sense?
And if you buy and are in the market, also shut up lar.. don't need to everyday come here and talk up the market.
anything dat u can sell is an asset la...be it ur property (30year lease or fh), ur car, ur tv, or even ur wife (if there's a buyer). this one oso need to argue!
According to his method of counting, anything that is not FH CCR is not an asset.
He is a ASS Lah.. base on his ANAL LOGY. EVEN FH is not a asset. Coz everything can go to shit. so how can it be a asset if its not handed on a silver platter and BAO JIA to HIM.
Basically He is a a ASS! SET!
Do you get a HDB deed of title/ownership after you fully paid up your HDB flat?
According to HDB regulations (it was mentioned in this forum before I think), HDB flats' "owners" are really just "leasees".........
So people buying FH and 999 are also leasse? too then? even FH. if government need to build road they acquire it. you also LAN LAN. so basically to you nothing is assest lah.! What a WRAP logic.!
you mean when they fully pay up their HDB and they sell they get ZERO $ back? They cannot rent out their unit to collect rental while staying in it? they cannot rent it out later to monitize the HDB when they move to stay in their private? HOW IS THAT NOT ASSEST?
GET your head out of your ASS LAH.
Relax leh, don't use red and bold fonts. So emotional how to be calm in making the most well considered decisions?
We can't change the system, only can calculate and consider our personal best step based on what our system has. I wish you all calmness and peace.
The only clamminess one can get with that piece of shit is when its flushed down the toilet.
minority,
Don't bull-shit and trying to tell all kinds of lies here, you are worst then the 130+ news media.................
Let's see, you say $160k per year income is high-income and need to pay more tax?
Ok, we also know that Ministers earn $2000k per year income. So if you are saying that $160k per year is high-income, then you are telling us that $2000k per year income to you is OBSCENE-INCOME? Can't be right?! (since you are the strongest PAP flag carrier, BUT unfortunately only a brown-tonguer, a liar with no integrity, no honesty, and no moral character that can't even call a sheep a sheep and must twist to become a "horse" and trying hard to get into good book...............)
Don't forget, $2000k / $160k = 12.5x
We also know that the minimum wage in Singapore is $1k per month, or $14k per year (assuming the worker gets a 13th month bonus and another 1 month bonus).
Then, $160k (middle-income) / $14k (low-income) = 11.4x
So, we definitely cannot put $2000k per year income in the same "income category" as $160k per year income (just like we cannot put $160k per year income with $14k per year income in the same "income category")................
In this case, the only reasonable conclusion we can made here is that $2000k per year income is HIGH-INCOME, and hence $160k per year income can only be labelled as "MIDDLE-INCOME", simple as that! :dog:
And minority,
please STOP all you lying...... You are telling us that top-income earners never pay 33% income tax in Singapore before? Well, they have it so good to have their income tax cut from 33% before 1994 (before implementation of GST) to now 20%! And even more, their corporate taxes have been cut from 30% before 1994 to now 17%! In absolute terms, top-income earners' income have multiplied many many times since 1994! Go look at the income statistics over the years!
And another of your lie, that HDB flat is an asset....................
According to the regulations of HDB flats, a HDB flat "owner" is not really an owner, but just a "leasee" with only 99-years lease, and anyway the land is owned by the government and leased to HDB flat owners for 99-years, so it is clear that HDB flat "owners" (actually is "leasee" to be more exact) leased the HDB flats from the government for 99 years, and HDB flat is never "owned" by the "owners", but just "leased" by the "leasee" (but news media like to call them "owners" to give them some high-hat and make them feel "prouder")..........
And furthermore, government is seriously concerned about HDB flat prices for past few years, particularly resale HDB flats' price escalation, thus enacting new regulations which makes making profit from HDB flats by buying in BTO and selling in resale market over, and people should just learn to treat HDB flats as an "expense" that will depreciate to ZERO in 99 years, not "asset" (which can allow them to make profit). Anyway, government didn't create HDB flats for people to flip for profit...............
So what if top 10% are paying 80% of the taxes?
Really, if you look at the income statistics over the years, the top-income earners' income have multiplied many many OBSCENE times since 1994 (while the low-income's income has barely increased with inflation rate)!
Because of such facts, I and many others believe that this phenomenon (that now top 10% are paying 80% of the taxes) is happening is mainly because the RICH-POOR gap has become too wide, because the rich and those in power (who can decide and/or influence their own salaries and bonuses and perks etc) are paying themselves OBSCENE salaries and bonuses, not to mention all kind of allowances and perks and SQUEEZING the middle-income and lower-income salaried people under their pay-rolls. For example, the current SMRT CEO is already getting highest pay package of all previous CEOs so far, yet SMRT trains are still breaking down frequently, and there is no improvement at all! Then, why is he getting much higher pay than previous CEOs? For ensuring that SMRT trains keep breaking down? This basically tells us about the ILLs happening in Singapore, and all about paying more for performance sounds bull-shit, just like this SMRT case!
Now, if you think or they think they are paying too much taxes (despite paying themselves so much pay for not achieving the performance improvement etc), why not just ask them to take home less salaries, less bonuses, less perks and less allowances etc, and distribute more money to their subordinates? Well, if they distribute so much more to their subordinates, their subordinates may end up paying more taxes than them! Then, we will have top 10% earners paying just 30% of the taxes or even less! That may sounds like a pretty good idea and good deal to you and those "obscene"-income people who complained about paying too much income taxes already?
This is actually what is happening in Finland! And the reason? Their typical CEOs only earns an annual salary of about EUR500k, their Prime Minister only get an annual salary of EUR180k............... Oh, we didn't see those Finnish CEOs and talents leaving Finland........... They are still 1 of the top most innovative countries in the world.......... And for a Prime Minister with a salary of only EUR180k per year income, Finland is the least corrupt country in the world by world-ranking, less corrupt in ranking than Singapore (If my memory did not fail me)....................... :applause:
So, all the facts above point to 1 single FACT: That you are full of bull shits covering your eyes, and you are telling lots of lies to try to mislead everybody in Singapore and even the world, SAME like you lies about GST, eg saying Singapore's GST of 7% is much lower than UK's 20%.................. FULL of bullshit! Why don't you also tell all of us honestly that UK's VAT (equivalent of GST) fully exempts all basic necessities, children necessities and medical stuffs etc?! :gun4:
HEY ASS WIPE!
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO STATE 160K IS MIDDLE INCOME. I AM BASICALLY TAKING YOUR QUOTE ITS MIDDLE INCOME THEN. SO 12K Per month pay is Middle income you say.!!!!!
SO A COUPLE of MIDDLE INCOME WILL BE COMBINE HOUSE HOLD INCOME OF 25K THEN!!! THIS IS MIDDLE INCOME??? MY ASSSSS!!!! DONT BULLSHIT ME! NOW AS USUAL TRY TO PRATA SAY $2K IS HIGH INCOME WHAT FART ARE YOU FARTING FROM YOUR LOOSE ASSS OF YOUR?? NOT GETTING ENOUGH LUV FROM YOUR DAD???
WOW TAX in 1993?? WHY NOT BRING UP 1945? or maybe the 1800s!!! WE ARE RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW. LIKE TAT MUST WELL SAY WHEN YOUR GRAND MOTHER COME OUT WORK IS PAID $100pm.!!! WHY NOT YOU SAY $100PM is Middle income!!! Coz in 1945 THAT IS THE PAY!!!! WTF!!!! HOW ANAL CAN THAT GET JUST TO FURTHER YOUR BULLSHIT!!!
AND USUAL LIE and TWIST. Quote something don't quote something. Since you like to quote 1993 why u never mention there a tax rate cut across all income group? why is that so? Coz you only want to pick items that are in favour of your bull shit agenda.
GO SEE YOUR DAD AND GET SOME LUV I THINK YOU REALLY LACK IT IN YOUR CHILD HOOD!!!
ONE MOMENT WHEN COMPARING SOMETHING TO YOUR FAVOUR YOU QOUTE 2015 NUMBER WHEN NOT IN FAVOUR CAN PULL BACK 1993! WHO ARE YOU DR WITH A TIME MACHINE UP YOUR ASS???
I agree with Chestnut. so simple and I don't understand why need to have economics theory here and there. There are things in life don't need so many theory lar.. don't over read this and that and in the end do nothing...
agreed too :)
and I thought the highpark 1100 plus sale in 3 days should have silenced the "economist" here : what economic theory ? pty market is not stk market.
"in the end do nothing" is the worst. say 2018 is the year interest rate back to normal level, from 2009-2018, almost a decade of low interest rate. how many decades do you have in your life ?
Actually you do have a deed after fully paying. But it's better to leave with HDB rather than keep at home. That deed is valid for the remaining of the 99 years.
Lessees is the word actually bro. Technically the land and unit has to be returned after 99 years. But within the 80 to 90 years after you pay up, you can keep the rent of minimum 2k plus per month, or let 2.5 generations of yourself and children, grandchildren utilise its value.
It's still much of an asset that fully serves it's purpose in your lifetime.
no need to explain to that dumb ass lah. he will tell you that you are bluffing. the $ are paper and bull etc. then he will tell you actually in 1900s the house cost $2K. and today so much diff. the house should still be sold at $2K but when he want to collect rent he will quote you 2015 market rental rate. thats how bull shit this guy is.
Sorry, one thing I don't quite understand, why HDB is not the owner's asset when he/she used his/her money to purchase it even though it is 99 years, If not how can they still sell off their HDB within these 99 years. Maybe if said the land does not belong to them, I understand but why the house still does not belong to them when they have fully paid. If that's the case, that means that EC owners and private ppty owners (99 years) are also not the owners of their property even though they have fully paid? So is it better to buy freehold property? If rent direct from HDB and pay only a small amount of money to HDB monthly, then I understand it is not the asset of the stayer but if bought it with our CPF or cash, why still not our asset???
You cannot take equity loan from a HDB flat.
You cannot take equity loan from a HDB flat.
I know there are some restriction on HDB because it is subsidized but we are using our money to purchase the flat, so why are we not the owner then. One thing puzzle me is, after 99 years, govt is going to take back the land, so if "owners" sell at that time, nobody is going to buy from them, then where should these people stay if they have no money to buy another flat as the HDB flat is getting more and more expensive.
According to his method of counting, anything that is not FH CCR is not an asset.
But he did say is according to the HDB regulations leh.
If govt taking back the land they will give a replacement unit likely. Moreover owning a hdb also benefit your next generation even if it is 99yrs as your children can utilise or rent out.
Actually you do have a deed after fully paying. But it's better to leave with HDB rather than keep at home. That deed is valid for the remaining of the 99 years.
Lessees is the word actually bro. Technically the land and unit has to be returned after 99 years. But within the 80 to 90 years after you pay up, you can keep the rent of minimum 2k plus per month, or let 2.5 generations of yourself and children, grandchildren utilise its value.
It's still much of an asset that fully serves it's purpose in your lifetime.
My in-law said the HDB had handed her some documents after she had fully paid her HDB flat but I'm not sure what documents are that because I didn't ask.
If govt taking back the land they will give a replacement unit likely. Moreover owning a hdb also benefit your next generation even if it is 99yrs as your children can utilise or rent out.
I think most likely nowadays, children will sell off the flats when both parents are not around anymore and shared among the siblings unless either one of the siblings are not married and still want to stay there, if not likely that they will sell the flat. 2 of my friends did that also, sold the flats and shared among the siblings, either use the money to buy his dream home or go for holidays.
I think most likely nowadays, children will sell off the flats when both parents are not around anymore and shared among the siblings unless either one of the siblings are not married and still want to stay there, if not likely that they will sell the flat. 2 of my friends did that also, sold the flats and shared among the siblings, either use the money to buy his dream home or go for holidays.
Most have to sell coz cannot own 2 hdb units. Unless decouple.
I know there are some restriction on HDB because it is subsidized but we are using our money to purchase the flat, so why are we not the owner then. One thing puzzle me is, after 99 years, govt is going to take back the land, so if "owners" sell at that time, nobody is going to buy from them, then where should these people stay if they have no money to buy another flat as the HDB flat is getting more and more expensive.
I have yet see any HDB or housing building that is 99yrs leh.. mostly hit 60 enbloc liao.
minority,
Don't lie here........
To whose interest is it to propogate the notion that 99-years leasehold property is as good as freehold? Who will benefit? The answer is obvious...............
You brown-tonguing again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :glee:
So people buying FH and 999 are also leasse? too then? even FH. if government need to build road they acquire it. you also LAN LAN. so basically to you nothing is assest lah.! What a WRAP logic.!
you mean when they fully pay up their HDB and they sell they get ZERO $ back? They cannot rent out their unit to collect rental while staying in it? they cannot rent it out later to monitize the HDB when they move to stay in their private? HOW IS THAT NOT ASSEST?
GET your head out of your ASS LAH.
minority,
Just because you are ignorant and do not know means they don't exist in the world???????????? :asshole:
I have yet see any HDB or housing building that is 99yrs leh.. mostly hit 60 enbloc liao.
minority,
You really can twist and turn!
You claim yourself number 2 ranking in twist and turn nobody dare to claim number 1 position!!!!!!!!!!!!! :glee:
Didn't you say $160k is HIGH-INCOME?
If $160k or even $320k is really considered HIGH-INCOME, then $2000k to $4000k will become OBSCENE-INCOME right? So you telling us that these people like the Ministers taking OBSCENE-INCOME? Can't be right, that is why I only consider them taking HIGH-INCOME......... :chargrined:
BUT, rapidly rising gap in income of top 1% earners and bottom 80% earners is a FACT isn't it? Isn't this the reason why top 10% earners paying 80% of all income taxes?
Actually there is another more starking fact - I was told that top 1% paying more than 50% of all income and business taxes!!!!!!!!!!!! Why you didn't tell us?????????????
This will just prove that top 1% are just taking TOO MUCH MONEY............. They should just distribute more money down to their subordinates so that they don't need to pay so much taxes.................. :angel:
And given that Singapore government is clamping down on HDB resale flats' prices with property cooling measures, and they won't rise BUT instead keep falling, how can HDB flats be an asset when they are falling in value?????
And how, you still didn't tell us, did the poor in UK pay much more GST with 20% VAT compared to the poor in Singapore paying 7% GST? Don't dare to response to this question because it will just expose all lies being told about Singapore's GST vs other countries??????
HEY ASS WIPE!
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO STATE 160K IS MIDDLE INCOME. I AM BASICALLY TAKING YOUR QUOTE ITS MIDDLE INCOME THEN. SO 12K Per month pay is Middle income you say.!!!!!
SO A COUPLE of MIDDLE INCOME WILL BE COMBINE HOUSE HOLD INCOME OF 25K THEN!!! THIS IS MIDDLE INCOME??? MY ASSSSS!!!! DONT BULLSHIT ME! NOW AS USUAL TRY TO PRATA SAY $2K IS HIGH INCOME WHAT FART ARE YOU FARTING FROM YOUR LOOSE ASSS OF YOUR?? NOT GETTING ENOUGH LUV FROM YOUR DAD???
WOW TAX in 1993?? WHY NOT BRING UP 1945? or maybe the 1800s!!! WE ARE RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW. LIKE TAT MUST WELL SAY WHEN YOUR GRAND MOTHER COME OUT WORK IS PAID $100pm.!!! WHY NOT YOU SAY $100PM is Middle income!!! Coz in 1945 THAT IS THE PAY!!!! WTF!!!! HOW ANAL CAN THAT GET JUST TO FURTHER YOUR BULLSHIT!!!
AND USUAL LIE and TWIST. Quote something don't quote something. Since you like to quote 1993 why u never mention there a tax rate cut across all income group? why is that so? Coz you only want to pick items that are in favour of your bull shit agenda.
GO SEE YOUR DAD AND GET SOME LUV I THINK YOU REALLY LACK IT IN YOUR CHILD HOOD!!!
ONE MOMENT WHEN COMPARING SOMETHING TO YOUR FAVOUR YOU QOUTE 2015 NUMBER WHEN NOT IN FAVOUR CAN PULL BACK 1993! WHO ARE YOU DR WITH A TIME MACHINE UP YOUR ASS???
minority,
Don't bull-shit and trying to tell all kinds of lies here, you are worst then the 130+ news media.................
Let's see, you say $160k per year income is high-income and need to pay more tax?
Ok, we also know that Ministers earn $2000k per year income. So if you are saying that $160k per year is high-income, then you are telling us that $2000k per year income to you is OBSCENE-INCOME? Can't be right?! (since you are the strongest PAP flag carrier, BUT unfortunately only a brown-tonguer, a liar with no integrity, no honesty, and no moral character that can't even call a sheep a sheep and must twist to become a "horse" and trying hard to get into good book...............)
Don't forget, $2000k / $160k = 12.5x
We also know that the minimum wage in Singapore is $1k per month, or $14k per year (assuming the worker gets a 13th month bonus and another 1 month bonus).
Then, $160k (middle-income) / $14k (low-income) = 11.4x
So, we definitely cannot put $2000k per year income in the same "income category" as $160k per year income (just like we cannot put $160k per year income with $14k per year income in the same "income category")................
In this case, the only reasonable conclusion we can made here is that $2000k per year income is HIGH-INCOME, and hence $160k per year income can only be labelled as "MIDDLE-INCOME", simple as that! :dog:
And minority,
please STOP all you lying...... You are telling us that top-income earners never pay 33% income tax in Singapore before? Well, they have it so good to have their income tax cut from 33% before 1994 (before implementation of GST) to now 20%! And even more, their corporate taxes have been cut from 30% before 1994 to now 17%! In absolute terms, top-income earners' income have multiplied many many times since 1994! Go look at the income statistics over the years!
And another of your lie, that HDB flat is an asset....................
According to the regulations of HDB flats, a HDB flat "owner" is not really an owner, but just a "leasee" with only 99-years lease, and anyway the land is owned by the government and leased to HDB flat owners for 99-years, so it is clear that HDB flat "owners" (actually is "leasee" to be more exact) leased the HDB flats from the government for 99 years, and HDB flat is never "owned" by the "owners", but just "leased" by the "leasee" (but news media like to call them "owners" to give them some high-hat and make them feel "prouder")..........
And furthermore, government is seriously concerned about HDB flat prices for past few years, particularly resale HDB flats' price escalation, thus enacting new regulations which makes making profit from HDB flats by buying in BTO and selling in resale market over, and people should just learn to treat HDB flats as an "expense" that will depreciate to ZERO in 99 years, not "asset" (which can allow them to make profit). Anyway, government didn't create HDB flats for people to flip for profit...............
So what if top 10% are paying 80% of the taxes?
Really, if you look at the income statistics over the years, the top-income earners' income have multiplied many many OBSCENE times since 1994 (while the low-income's income has barely increased with inflation rate)!
Because of such facts, I and many others believe that this phenomenon (that now top 10% are paying 80% of the taxes) is happening is mainly because the RICH-POOR gap has become too wide, because the rich and those in power (who can decide and/or influence their own salaries and bonuses and perks etc) are paying themselves OBSCENE salaries and bonuses, not to mention all kind of allowances and perks and SQUEEZING the middle-income and lower-income salaried people under their pay-rolls. For example, the current SMRT CEO is already getting highest pay package of all previous CEOs so far, yet SMRT trains are still breaking down frequently, and there is no improvement at all! Then, why is he getting much higher pay than previous CEOs? For ensuring that SMRT trains keep breaking down? This basically tells us about the ILLs happening in Singapore, and all about paying more for performance sounds bull-shit, just like this SMRT case!
Now, if you think or they think they are paying too much taxes (despite paying themselves so much pay for not achieving the performance improvement etc), why not just ask them to take home less salaries, less bonuses, less perks and less allowances etc, and distribute more money to their subordinates? Well, if they distribute so much more to their subordinates, their subordinates may end up paying more taxes than them! Then, we will have top 10% earners paying just 30% of the taxes or even less! That may sounds like a pretty good idea and good deal to you and those "obscene"-income people who complained about paying too much income taxes already?
This is actually what is happening in Finland! And the reason? Their typical CEOs only earns an annual salary of about EUR500k, their Prime Minister only get an annual salary of EUR180k............... Oh, we didn't see those Finnish CEOs and talents leaving Finland........... They are still 1 of the top most innovative countries in the world.......... And for a Prime Minister with a salary of only EUR180k per year income, Finland is the least corrupt country in the world by world-ranking, less corrupt in ranking than Singapore (If my memory did not fail me)....................... :applause:
So, all the facts above point to 1 single FACT: That you are full of bull shits covering your eyes, and you are telling lots of lies to try to mislead everybody in Singapore and even the world, SAME like you lies about GST, eg saying Singapore's GST of 7% is much lower than UK's 20%.................. FULL of bullshit! Why don't you also tell all of us honestly that UK's VAT (equivalent of GST) fully exempts all basic necessities, children necessities and medical stuffs etc?! :gun4:
You are now asking the smart question..........
Many people either are too stupid to ask this question, or they have hidden agenda to hide this glaring fact..................... :chargrined:
And somebody here also answered your question about why a HDB flat "owner" is really a "lessee" and not "owner" - because HDB flat "owner" can't even re-mortgage their HDB flats even when they already paid off their HDB flat................. (compare to 99-year leasehold property owners...........) :glee:
I know there are some restriction on HDB because it is subsidized but we are using our money to purchase the flat, so why are we not the owner then. One thing puzzle me is, after 99 years, govt is going to take back the land, so if "owners" sell at that time, nobody is going to buy from them, then where should these people stay if they have no money to buy another flat as the HDB flat is getting more and more expensive.
minority,
Don't lie here........
To whose interest is it to propogate the notion that 99-years leasehold property is as good as freehold? Who will benefit? The answer is obvious...............
You brown-tonguing again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :glee:
Again you try to prata and lie.. DID I SAY 99YR is AS GOOD AS FREEHOLD?? You are the one who say becoz LH99 is not a asset right? Coz it will expire at end of 99yrs??? WELL 999Yrs will also Expire even FH ALSO Can Expire if the government say there is use for the LAND!!.
SO BASE ON YOUR BULLSHIT ANAL LOGY ITS ALL A LEASE THUS THEY ARE NOT ASSEST!
OH I FORGOT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE BUY AND OWN ARE NOT ASSEST ONLY YOURS LH99 IN CCR IS ASSEST.. NOW I SEE YOUR AGENDA.. WHAT BULL SHIT!
minority,
Just because you are ignorant and do not know means they don't exist in the world???????????? :asshole:
THEN PLS SHOW US A LIVING REFERENCE PLS>... COZ TALK IS CHEAP TWIRTP
minority,
You really can twist and turn!
You claim yourself number 2 ranking in twist and turn nobody dare to claim number 1 position!!!!!!!!!!!!! :glee:
Didn't you say $160k is HIGH-INCOME?
If $160k or even $320k is really considered HIGH-INCOME, then $2000k to $4000k will become OBSCENE-INCOME right? So you telling us that these people like the Ministers taking OBSCENE-INCOME? Can't be right, that is why I only consider them taking HIGH-INCOME......... :chargrined:
BUT, rapidly rising gap in income of top 1% earners and bottom 80% earners is a FACT isn't it? Isn't this the reason why top 10% earners paying 80% of all income taxes?
Actually there is another more starking fact - I was told that top 1% paying more than 50% of all income and business taxes!!!!!!!!!!!! Why you didn't tell us?????????????
This will just prove that top 1% are just taking TOO MUCH MONEY............. They should just distribute more money down to their subordinates so that they don't need to pay so much taxes.................. :angel:
And given that Singapore government is clamping down on HDB resale flats' prices with property cooling measures, and they won't rise BUT instead keep falling, how can HDB flats be an asset when they are falling in value?????
And how, you still didn't tell us, did the poor in UK pay much more GST with 20% VAT compared to the poor in Singapore paying 7% GST? Don't dare to response to this question because it will just expose all lies being told about Singapore's GST vs other countries??????
WHY NOT COMPARE FACEBOOK CEO OR GOOGLE CEO?? OR WARREN BUFFET???
YOU ARE A REAL PRATA AND SWINE!! THAT TWIST N TURN.!!! SO YOU ARE THE ONE SAY EARN 12K is Middle indome. IF SO THEN SINGAPOREAN ARE RICH!!!! 12K pm 24K Pm are middle income and tax is less than 15%!!!
SO ?? GOT PE MIDDLE INCOMEEOPLE EARN 2M they PAY TAX 22% !! THEY ALSO CONSUME MORE GST!! MORE PROPERTY TAX!!! JEALOUS SOME CEO CAN MAKE THAT COZ LOOSER LIKE YOU EARN 200K U THINK YOU DESERVE ALL THE BREAK??? WOW WHAT HORSE SHIT HAVE YOU EATEN? ?? COME DOWN FROM YOU BLOODY HIGH HORSE LAH!!!
DONT TALK COCK!!!! I THINK U NEED SOME ASS TIME FROM YOUR DAD MAN!!!! YOU ARE DEPRIVED!
You are now asking the smart question..........
Many people either are too stupid to ask this question, or they have hidden agenda to hide this glaring fact..................... :chargrined:
And somebody here also answered your question about why a HDB flat "owner" is really a "lessee" and not "owner" - because HDB flat "owner" can't even re-mortgage their HDB flats even when they already paid off their HDB flat................. (compare to 99-year leasehold property owners...........) :glee:
YEAH LAH ONLY YOUR SMALL LH99 in TOWN IS ASSEST. The REST OF THE PEOPLE WITH LH99 ELSE WHERE ARE SHIT... YEAH NOW WE KNOW YOUR STUPID AGENDA.
I have yet see any HDB or housing building that is 99yrs leh.. mostly hit 60 enbloc
liao.
Yup, my spouse is already a "senior citizen" and I don't think we have ever heard about HDB reaching 99 years too.
HDB flats can reach 99 years or not I don't know, may be not is because the building quality too poor? The poor building quality had been admitted previously by HDB personnel (think I read in newspapers' forum page), but the argument is that you pay what you get mah...... (You pay low price you expect high quality?!).
In other countries, 100 years or much older buildings are just too common..........
Yup, my spouse is already a "senior citizen" and I don't think we have ever heard about HDB reaching 99 years too.
Climate plus humidity bro. Lethal combi.
I thought we have discussed this before?
I also almost never hear of any FH building older than 100 years old. Have you?
HDB flats can reach 99 years or not I don't know, may be not is because the building quality too poor? The poor building quality had been admitted previously by HDB personnel (think I read in newspapers' forum page), but the argument is that you pay what you get mah...... (You pay low price you expect high quality?!).
In other countries, 100 years or much older buildings are just too common..........
Have lah, There are FH temples more than 100 years old........... Luckily they sit on FH land, else such old temples with exquisite structures and carvings and antique values will go into drain.............. :hurt:
And also LKY's house........... Can be National Monument already......... This was reported in the Newspaper:
"The pre-war bungalow at 38, Oxley Road, which was built by a Jewish merchant more than 100 years ago, has witnessed some momentous turning points in Singapore's history."
Climate plus humidity bro. Lethal combi.
I thought we have discussed this before?
I also almost never hear of any FH building older than 100 years old. Have you?
Have lah, There are FH temples more than 100 years old........... Luckily they sit on FH land, else such old temples with exquisite structures and carvings and antique values will go into drain.............. :hurt:
And also LKY's house........... Can be National Monument already......... This was reported in the Newspaper:
"The pre-war bungalow at 38, Oxley Road, which was built by a Jewish merchant more than 100 years ago, has witnessed some momentous turning points in Singapore's history."
Just knew somehow you were going to use this example. But why stop there and don't give the complete picture about the problems of old buildings? I think the number can count with at most two hands.
According to Mr Lee, yes still can live in it but huge maintenance problems.
"No, no, no. You know the cost of preserving it? It's an old house built over a hundred years ago. No foundation. The cost of maintaining it, damp comes up the wall because there's no foundation. So the piling in the neighbourhood has made cracks in my walls. But fortunately the pillars are sound."
Lame excuse lah........................ Quite a number of the Ministers don't think it is a problem though, they want the house to be preserved as a National Monument........... :glee:
In overseas, there are many hundreds of years old buildings and people can still live in and maintain.................... :chargrined:
Just knew somehow you were going to use this example. But why stop there and don't give the complete picture about the problems of old buildings? I think the number can count with at most two hands.
According to Mr Lee, yes still can live in it but huge maintenance problems.
"No, no, no. You know the cost of preserving it? It's an old house built over a hundred years ago. No foundation. The cost of maintaining it, damp comes up the wall because there's no foundation. So the piling in the neighbourhood has made cracks in my walls. But fortunately the pillars are sound."
I already explained to you. Overseas is either not so hot or not so humid.
Locally, other than museums, churches or special monuments with special cultural values, name me one residential building that is 100 years old, or 90 years old.
For LKY house, they would have to spend millions just to keep it standing for decades more.
Other than age and huge cost of maintenance, the young most likely would not want to live in buildings based on yesteryears' designs.
Sometimes you really make me wonder - have you really lived in an old house (>50 years) before?
Lame excuse lah........................ Quite a number of the Ministers don't think it is a problem though, they want the house to be preserved as a National Monument........... :glee:
In overseas, there are many hundreds of years old buildings and people can still live in and maintain.................... :chargrined:
Overseas not so hot and not humid so cheaper to maintain? Wow! Don't talk nonsense lah! Different climate has different problems!
There are still very old conservations houses around in Singapore with people living in..... I know that very well..................
For LKY house need to spend millions to keep it standing? Clearly You are plugging figures from the air! If so, there won't be >100 years old churches, temples, conservation houses around etc! It is obvious that maintaining a house is much cheaper than re-building a new one of the same size (unless you can increase the plot ratio and built-up area for a profit), and that is a fact.................
Now you leaking the REAL reason - It is the young people and you who don't like to live in old houses, not because old houses cannot maintain to live in..................... :chargrined:
Furthermore, because of increase in plot ratio and rising land prices in the past, most people can make money rebuilding with higher density than maintaining..............
Still, we will see more and more old properties around going forward as they ages and because property prices will not go up (especially in OCR - since incomes of middle-income group are not increasing to catch up with inflation), plot ratio already maximised, they will have to maintain and maintain until 99 years or more. For those 99years leasehold properties, they will have to be returned to the Government for free at the end of 99 years..................... :hurt:
I already explained to you. Overseas is either not so hot or not so humid.
Locally, other than museums, churches or special monuments with special cultural values, name me one residential building that is 100 years old, or 90 years old.
For LKY house, they would have to spend millions just to keep it standing for decades more.
Other than age and huge cost of maintenance, the young most likely would not want to live in buildings based on yesteryears' designs.
Sometimes you really make me wonder - have you really lived in an old house (>50 years) before?
Definitely not plucked from the air.
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-slider-potong-pasir
"The lovely stained glass windows, which were produced by J. Dobbelaere of Bruges, Belgium, in 1912, were restored at a cost of $1 million late last year."
The monuments are worth the work because they serve the public and the culture. But for residential houses the economy of scale does not apply. It is cheaper to tear down and rebuild than to maintain. Typical landed cost 600K to rebuild the last I checked.
In my previous message I already asked for residential properties over 100 years, and all you can come up with are churches, temples, conservation houses? In fact, most of the conservation houses at 60 years old are already very run down.
Overseas not so hot and not humid so cheaper to maintain? Wow! Don't talk nonsense lah! Different climate has different problems!
There are still very old conservations houses around in Singapore with people living in..... I know that very well..................
For LKY house need to spend millions to keep it standing? Clearly You are plugging figures from the air! If so, there won't be >100 years old churches, temples, conservation houses around etc! It is obvious that maintaining a house is much cheaper than re-building a new one of the same size (unless you can increase the plot ratio and built-up area for a profit), and that is a fact.................
Now you leaking the REAL reason - It is the young people and you who don't like to live in old houses, not because old houses cannot maintain to live in..................... :chargrined:
Furthermore, because of increase in plot ratio and rising land prices in the past, most people can make money rebuilding with higher density than maintaining..............
Still, we will see more and more old properties around going forward as they ages and because property prices will not go up (especially in OCR - since incomes of middle-income group are not increasing to catch up with inflation), plot ratio already maximised, they will have to maintain and maintain until 99 years or more. For those 99years leasehold properties, they will have to be returned to the Government for free at the end of 99 years..................... :hurt:
HDB flats can reach 99 years or not I don't know, may be not is because the building quality too poor? The poor building quality had been admitted previously by HDB personnel (think I read in newspapers' forum page), but the argument is that you pay what you get mah...... (You pay low price you expect high quality?!).
In other countries, 100 years or much older buildings are just too common..........
I would think that the previous HDB had better quality than current one. Previously HDB just build a flat without finished flooring, doors etc, it was up to the owners to do it themselves choosing their own quality of materials and workmanship. My in-law stayed in the current place since 1965 (about 50 yrs old flat), in fact, she didn't even do the flooring, just cover the floor with "rubber mat", no cabinets, no wall tiles etc, a simple house but her flat still look good, no leaking anywhere. My friend private apartment (about 10 yrs old), quality was even worst than my in-law HDB, leaking piping, wall has more sands than cement etc.
I would think that the previous HDB had better quality than current one. Previously HDB just build a flat without finished flooring, doors etc, it was up to the owners to do it themselves choosing their own quality of materials and workmanship. My in-law stayed in the current place since 1965 (about 50 yrs old flat), in fact, she didn't even do the flooring, just cover the floor with "rubber mat", no cabinets, no wall tiles etc, a simple house but her flat still look good, no leaking anywhere. My friend private apartment (about 10 yrs old), quality was even worst than my in-law HDB, leaking piping, wall has more sands than cement etc.
True to an extent. Prices of land, raw materials and manpower have gone up but there is a max for the selling price.
But empty apartments are always easier to maintain than one with flooring, cabinets, wall tiles. There is a depreciation cost for it.
I already explained to you. Overseas is either not so hot or not so humid.
Locally, other than museums, churches or special monuments with special cultural values, name me one residential building that is 100 years old, or 90 years old.
For LKY house, they would have to spend millions just to keep it standing for decades more.
Other than age and huge cost of maintenance, the young most likely would not want to live in buildings based on yesteryears' designs.
Sometimes you really make me wonder - have you really lived in an old house (>50 years) before?
Why you bother to explain to that prick. He knows it just want to argue and give bullshit so he can drive his hate agenda. just play along lah. he jolly well know the facts just that he want to twist the facts to present his own twisted agenda. no need to explain to him just wack him !!!
HDB flats can reach 99 years or not I don't know, may be not is because the building quality too poor? The poor building quality had been admitted previously by HDB personnel (think I read in newspapers' forum page), but the argument is that you pay what you get mah...... (You pay low price you expect high quality?!).
In other countries, 100 years or much older buildings are just too common..........
Oh now you don't know. I thought you said LH99 will give back government and the place is worthless. etc not assets zero value. now you say u have yet to see any and want to change goal post say its poor quality??? WOW!!! YOUR PRATA SURE FLIP VERY FAST!!!
DONT BULLSHIT WHEN YOU CANNOT SUSTAIN YOUR ARGUMENT. OTHER COUNTRIES GOT 100yrs Building. SINGAPORE ALSO HAVE WHAT. I AM ASKING YOU CAN YOU SHOW ME A LH99 HDB STILL STANDING WHERE THE OCCUPANT GET ZERO VALUE FROM IT. PLS SHOW ME. IF NOT I CALL YOU BULLSHIT AND BLUFF!
Just knew somehow you were going to use this example. But why stop there and don't give the complete picture about the problems of old buildings? I think the number can count with at most two hands.
According to Mr Lee, yes still can live in it but huge maintenance problems.
"No, no, no. You know the cost of preserving it? It's an old house built over a hundred years ago. No foundation. The cost of maintaining it, damp comes up the wall because there's no foundation. So the piling in the neighbourhood has made cracks in my walls. But fortunately the pillars are sound."
For him BULLSHIT IS THE MANTRA. JUST FLIP THE PRATA AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. CANNOT CONVINCE ?? CONFUSE! Typical pattern.
Have lah, There are FH temples more than 100 years old........... Luckily they sit on FH land, else such old temples with exquisite structures and carvings and antique values will go into drain.............. :hurt:
And also LKY's house........... Can be National Monument already......... This was reported in the Newspaper:
"The pre-war bungalow at 38, Oxley Road, which was built by a Jewish merchant more than 100 years ago, has witnessed some momentous turning points in Singapore's history."
Well FH land can also be acquired. regardless FH temple or residentual. so base on your warp this assets its of no value either!!! so what bullshit are you yapping about?
Lame excuse lah........................ Quite a number of the Ministers don't think it is a problem though, they want the house to be preserved as a National Monument........... :glee:
In overseas, there are many hundreds of years old buildings and people can still live in and maintain.................... :chargrined:
I can name tons of pre war houses in Amoy Street that are being preserved and still being live in or use as office so what is your FARTING Point? Divert topic again? BULLSHIT!
Anyone try to let your friends who is a owner of another HDB to stay in your HDB?
My friend is doing major renovation and he need a place to stay.
I ask HDB whether I can let my friend stay since I have no tenants, guess what is their reply.
Hi Mr xxx,
Your email refers.
Under the terms and conditions to sublet whole flat, flat owners are not allowed to sublet the flat on a short term basis. The period of subletting to each subtenant per application must not be less than 6 months. Apart from that, the subtenants must not be tenants/owners of other HDB flats except for :
· Tenants/owners who are divorced/legally separated
· Only one of the divorced/legally separated parties may be a subtenant
· Owners who are eligible to sublet their whole HDB flat
· They must sublet their own flat within 1 month after having rented a flat from another flat owner
In this case, you may apply to sublet the flat to your friends for a period of at least 6 months, subject to above eligibility criteria and non citizen quota guideline.
You may refer to the enclosed the terms and conditions for subletting of whole flat, including the latest guideline on Non Citizen Quota for more information.
Regards
Hi Mr xxx,
Your email refers.
Under the terms and conditions to sublet whole flat, flat owners are not allowed to sublet the flat on a short term basis. The period of subletting to each subtenant per application must not be less than 6 months. Apart from that, the subtenants must not be tenants/owners of other HDB flats except for :
· Tenants/owners who are divorced/legally separated
· Only one of the divorced/legally separated parties may be a subtenant
· Owners who are eligible to sublet their whole HDB flat
· They must sublet their own flat within 1 month after having rented a flat from another flat owner
In this case, you may apply to sublet the flat to your friends for a period of at least 6 months, subject to above eligibility criteria and non citizen quota guideline.
You may refer to the enclosed the terms and conditions for subletting of whole flat, including the latest guideline on Non Citizen Quota for more information.
Regards
the officer who did this just pluck the info from the standard rules & regulations dat u can find in faq and reply to u.
not surprising though..
Anyone try to let your friends who is a owner of another HDB to stay in your HDB?
My friend is doing major renovation and he need a place to stay.
I ask HDB whether I can let my friend stay since I have no tenants, guess what is their reply.
Coz by default people with use this as a back door to do under table leasing. IF your friends want to stay at your flat without paying anything do you even have to ask HDB?
I would think that the previous HDB had better quality than current one. Previously HDB just build a flat without finished flooring, doors etc, it was up to the owners to do it themselves choosing their own quality of materials and workmanship. My in-law stayed in the current place since 1965 (about 50 yrs old flat), in fact, she didn't even do the flooring, just cover the floor with "rubber mat", no cabinets, no wall tiles etc, a simple house but her flat still look good, no leaking anywhere. My friend private apartment (about 10 yrs old), quality was even worst than my in-law HDB, leaking piping, wall has more sands than cement etc.
Building process have also changed. in the 50s they use to lay solid bricks for all the walls. Then came those hollow bricks which is lighter and now everything is pre feb. so there are changes in the build process. Some of the private developments the walls are like those overseas using pre fab boards as partitions.
So materials have changed so have the process . Labour shortages also have change how they deal with the process. So comparing look and feel back in 50s n now is totally a different comparison though.
I think can agar agar time but cannot perfectly time the market. Much like COE.
But it is fine to either talk up or down the market, presenting clearly the rationale for doing so. If not, don't need forum already. Most importantly is to stay on track and follow the discussion instead of coming up with emotional responses.
If not, readers coming in will feel bored and then it degenerates into silent forum - what then is the purpose of the forum?
It is nice to have forumer like you who understand what a good forum should be. Hope to have more forumers like you so that this forum remains lively.
Here is what Managing Director of MAS Mr Ravi Menon said today.
MAS: Still too early to ease cooling measures
Prices should soften further.
Property developers and homeowners hoping that the cooling measures will be relaxed soon will have to wait longer after the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) said it is still premature to ease the policies, reported Today Online.
“Property prices have softened somewhat, but like I said last year, in the context of the price increase that had occurred — 60 percent over three years — the softening we have seen is really not all that much. So, it’s still premature to consider removing any of the cooling measures that are in place,” explained MAS managing director Ravi Menon at a media briefing on Tuesday.
Private home prices started climbing steeply in mid-2009 before peaking in Q3 2013. The introduction of the Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) framework in June 2013 saw the market gradually decline.
Based on flash estimates by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), prices of private units dipped 0.9 percent in Q2, or the seventh consecutive quarter of price falls since the 2013 peak. However, prices corrected by less than seven percent from their record high.
“It is fair from the point of view of a policy stance aimed at re-engineering home affordability. The property market cooling is happening in an orderly fashion, and it is prudent to allow this to continue,” said Barclays economist Leong Wai Ho.
Meanwhile, Century 21 chief executive Ku Swee Yong wasn’t surprised by Menon’s comments.
“Based on the still-strong reaction from developers to Government Land Sale tenders and the decent response to some of the new launches, this is probably not the correct time to be easing curbs,” he noted.
Menon’s views mirror that of Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam and National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan.
Last October, Mr Tharman stated that “prices have some distance to go in achieving a meaningful correction”, while Mr Khaw mentioned it was not the right time to ease the cooling measures since there is still room for property prices to moderate.
Top Classification (Section):
News
By: Romesh Navaratnarajah
- See more at: http://sbr.com.sg/source/propertyguru/mas-still-too-early-ease-cooling-measures#sthash.FYk02U21.dpuf
Hei minority,
You are the biggest liar here, twist here and there, with no integrity and moral character to talk of, and you judging other people? What a laughing stock! Talk of twisted agenda, twisting facts and even propagating outright lies, you are the NUMBER ONE here............. :glee:
Why you bother to explain to that prick. He knows it just want to argue and give bullshit so he can drive his hate agenda. just play along lah. he jolly well know the facts just that he want to twist the facts to present his own twisted agenda. no need to explain to him just wack him !!!
minority,
ONE thing I know very well - 99LH properties will definitely be WORTH ZERO value and and their land must be returned to the GOVERNMENT after the end of 99 years lease, that is a FACT!
Are you trying to twist this and lie and tell us otherwise that this is not true? Come on, don't beat around the bush, just focus on answering the question! See who is bluffing................ :asshole:
And what is wrong with flipping PRATA? Are you telling us that those people flipping PRATA are low class, no moral character and value? Again, focus on answering the question? Are you like Jason Neo, can make derogatory remarks against some race and can get away is it?
Oh now you don't know. I thought you said LH99 will give back government and the place is worthless. etc not assets zero value. now you say u have yet to see any and want to change goal post say its poor quality??? WOW!!! YOUR PRATA SURE FLIP VERY FAST!!!
DONT BULLSHIT WHEN YOU CANNOT SUSTAIN YOUR ARGUMENT. OTHER COUNTRIES GOT 100yrs Building. SINGAPORE ALSO HAVE WHAT. I AM ASKING YOU CAN YOU SHOW ME A LH99 HDB STILL STANDING WHERE THE OCCUPANT GET ZERO VALUE FROM IT. PLS SHOW ME. IF NOT I CALL YOU BULLSHIT AND BLUFF!
HDB flats can reach 99 years or not I don't know, may be not is because the building quality too poor? The poor building quality had been admitted previously by HDB personnel (think I read in newspapers' forum page), but the argument is that you pay what you get mah...... (You pay low price you expect high quality?!).
In other countries, 100 years or much older buildings are just too common..........
The example you quote is about some stained glass windows that can be bought only from 1 single manufacturer and/or must be specially ordered, obviously very very very VERY expensive..........
Maintaining an old property, do you use back all the same brand, same model, same type, same design etc? Obviously not!
So, maintaining an old property is much easier and cheaper (if you use general brands and products) than those of temples and churches where restoration back must be exactly the same..........
Definitely not plucked from the air.
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-slider-potong-pasir
"The lovely stained glass windows, which were produced by J. Dobbelaere of Bruges, Belgium, in 1912, were restored at a cost of $1 million late last year."
The monuments are worth the work because they serve the public and the culture. But for residential houses the economy of scale does not apply. It is cheaper to tear down and rebuild than to maintain. Typical landed cost 600K to rebuild the last I checked.
In my previous message I already asked for residential properties over 100 years, and all you can come up with are churches, temples, conservation houses? In fact, most of the conservation houses at 60 years old are already very run down.
minority,
Talking about yourself the BIGGEST BULLSHITTER here! :chargrined:
For him BULLSHIT IS THE MANTRA. JUST FLIP THE PRATA AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. CANNOT CONVINCE ?? CONFUSE! Typical pattern.
Well FH land can also be acquired.
so base on your warp this assets its of no value either!!!
minority,
I don't understand your above statement: What do you mean by FH land can also be acquired and so also no value?
Are you telling us that the FH land can be acquired by the Singapore Government without paying market-value compensation?
If so, Are you telling us that Singapore Government are acting like a big robber? I don't think so right?!
Since what you said is not true, then how can the FH land has no value when acquired by the Singapore Government?
Stop beating around the bush again and can answer the question directly? You got no ball and no brain? :chargrined:
Well FH land can also be acquired. regardless FH temple or residentual. so base on your warp this assets its of no value either!!! so what bullshit are you yapping about?
Have lah, There are FH temples more than 100 years old........... Luckily they sit on FH land, else such old temples with exquisite structures and carvings and antique values will go into drain..............
And also LKY's house........... Can be National Monument already......... This was reported in the Newspaper:
"The pre-war bungalow at 38, Oxley Road, which was built by a Jewish merchant more than 100 years ago, has witnessed some momentous turning points in Singapore's history."
minority,
I don't understand your above statement: What do you mean by FH land can also be acquired and so also no value?
Are you telling us that the FH land can be acquired by the Singapore Government without paying market-value compensation?
If so, Are you telling us that Singapore Government are acting like a big robber? I don't think so right?!
Since what you said is not true, then how can the FH land has no value when acquired by the Singapore Government?
Stop beating around the bush again and can answer the question directly? You got no ball and no brain? :chargrined:
AS USUAL QUOTE AND LIE. WHERE DID I SAY NO COMPENSATION???? TELL ME WHERE WHICH BLIND EYE OF YOURS SAW IT? OHH FORGOT U MADE IT UP!!!!
GOOD YOU FINALLY GOT THE POINT AFTER SO LONG THEN IT GIT INTO UR THICK SKULL!!! THERE IS COMPENSATION. SO WHAT MAKE YOU THINK LH99 HDB IS NOT A ASSETS THEN!!! WHAT JOKE! ONLY YOUR LH99 HAVE VALUE AND OTHER PEOPLE NO VALUE? EVEN FH ARE ALSO NOT FOREVER! GOVERNMENT CAN ACQUIRE! SO? DONT BULL SHIT!
Hei minority,
You are the biggest liar here, twist here and there, with no integrity and moral character to talk of, and you judging other people? What a laughing stock! Talk of twisted agenda, twisting facts and even propagating outright lies, you are the NUMBER ONE here............. :glee:
ONCE A PRATA MAN FOR EVERY A PRATA MAN.. WORST ONE THAT LIKE TO BEND OVER AND FLIP PRATA!!!!
minority,
ONE thing I know very well - 99LH properties will definitely be WORTH ZERO value and and their land must be returned to the GOVERNMENT after the end of 99 years lease, that is a FACT!
Are you trying to twist this and lie and tell us otherwise that this is not true? Come on, don't beat around the bush, just focus on answering the question! See who is bluffing................ :asshole:
And what is wrong with flipping PRATA? Are you telling us that those people flipping PRATA are low class, no moral character and value? Again, focus on answering the question? Are you like Jason Neo, can make derogatory remarks against some race and can get away is it?
DID I SAY AT THE END OF 99YR GOVERNMENT WILL NOT TAKE BACK!!! LIE AGAIN!!!!! YOU SAY HDB IS LH99 SO NOT ASSEST!! U SAY ONE NOT ME!!!! SO U JUSTIFY THAT AT END OF 99YR ITS ZERO.. SO I ASK YOU AGAIN. FIND ME ONE HDB THAT IS LH99 THAT BECOME ZERO.. I AM STILL WAITING LEH... PLS FIND ME ONE....
SO YOU ARE ALSO SAYING LH99 PRIVATE ARE NOT ASSETS TOO THEN!!! COZ IT HAVE THE SAME LOGIC AS YOU HAVE STATED!!! ZEROED !
The example you quote is about some stained glass windows that can be bought only from 1 single manufacturer and/or must be specially ordered, obviously very very very VERY expensive..........
Maintaining an old property, do you use back all the same brand, same model, same type, same design etc? Obviously not!
So, maintaining an old property is much easier and cheaper (if you use general brands and products) than those of temples and churches where restoration back must be exactly the same..........
Dont talk cock lah... NEVER USE BACK THE SAME BRAND THAT'S WHY MORE EXPENSIVE!! COZ EVERYTHING MUST CUSTOM! OLD BRAND ALL EXTINCT PARTS CANNOT FIND!! SO EVERYTHING IS CUSTOM !!
SO DONT TALK COCK!
minority,
Talking about yourself the BIGGEST BULLSHITTER here! :chargrined:
YOU MEAN YOU SHITTED WHEN U WAS BROKEBACKED BY YOUR DADDYY???? EHHH THATS MESSY!!!!
Thanks for the positive comments. We also need some balanced positivity from yourself too.
My take is that there are multiple stakeholders here. I will just list the major ones that can influence the directions.
1. Buyers.
2. Sellers.
3. Developers.
4. Ministry (including MAS).
5. Banks
Some buyers have delayed their purchases for years and waiting for entry point. Some can wait some more, some can't. Many have saved for years awaiting entry point.
Sellers - many groups with mixed situations. Some want out, some want to wait.
Developers - deep pockets but must take reading from ministry. Cutting costs and cannot raise prices beyond rationality.
The ministry is the most crucial. It must portray the effort to stand on the side of the majority to push down the prices, while at the same time, because of your centre-left shift descriptions, tax the upper quadrant of income earners more to make up for the lack of gains due to stagnant prices and decreasing transactions. They are in good control of the situation and think for the people, so the stagnant prices may not necessarily be bad for all, as it aids first timers in owning their first home primarily.
Given the background demand and rise in incomes, their later explanations will definitely run along the lines of equilibrating incomes with home prices before cooling measures are moderated. But they need to do it carefully to prevent accidental stimulation. Going forward, I think weak seller groups (those that exceed TDSR), pessimists, and those who need the liquidity may provide further dips for the years ahead. But buyers are unlikely able to be choosy when negotiating with sellers willing to compromise on price. Developers may also mostly try to trim prices marginally, but definitely be prevented from making huge losses.
I see a flat line going ahead and a sustained and slow recovery of prices.
It is nice to have forumer like you who understand what a good forum should be. Hope to have more forumers like you so that this forum remains lively.
Here is what Managing Director of MAS Mr Ravi Menon said today.
MAS: Still too early to ease cooling measures
Prices should soften further.
Property developers and homeowners hoping that the cooling measures will be relaxed soon will have to wait longer after the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) said it is still premature to ease the policies, reported Today Online.
“Property prices have softened somewhat, but like I said last year, in the context of the price increase that had occurred — 60 percent over three years — the softening we have seen is really not all that much. So, it’s still premature to consider removing any of the cooling measures that are in place,” explained MAS managing director Ravi Menon at a media briefing on Tuesday.
Private home prices started climbing steeply in mid-2009 before peaking in Q3 2013. The introduction of the Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) framework in June 2013 saw the market gradually decline.
Based on flash estimates by the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), prices of private units dipped 0.9 percent in Q2, or the seventh consecutive quarter of price falls since the 2013 peak. However, prices corrected by less than seven percent from their record high.
“It is fair from the point of view of a policy stance aimed at re-engineering home affordability. The property market cooling is happening in an orderly fashion, and it is prudent to allow this to continue,” said Barclays economist Leong Wai Ho.
Meanwhile, Century 21 chief executive Ku Swee Yong wasn’t surprised by Menon’s comments.
“Based on the still-strong reaction from developers to Government Land Sale tenders and the decent response to some of the new launches, this is probably not the correct time to be easing curbs,” he noted.
Menon’s views mirror that of Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam and National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan.
Last October, Mr Tharman stated that “prices have some distance to go in achieving a meaningful correction”, while Mr Khaw mentioned it was not the right time to ease the cooling measures since there is still room for property prices to moderate.
Top Classification (Section):
News
By: Romesh Navaratnarajah
- See more at: http://sbr.com.sg/source/propertyguru/mas-still-too-early-ease-cooling-measures#sthash.FYk02U21.dpuf
Something (like 99years leasehold HDB flats) that will keep depreciating in value as times go by until they become ZERO value you call that "assets"?! No wonder you can never be rich!!!!!! :chargrined:
And you have no ball and brain to reply a simple question like below?:
And what is wrong with flipping PRATA? Are you telling us that those people flipping PRATA are low class, no moral character and value? Again, focus on answering the question? Are you like Jason Neo, can make derogatory remarks against some race and can get away is it?
DID I SAY AT THE END OF 99YR GOVERNMENT WILL NOT TAKE BACK!!! LIE AGAIN!!!!! YOU SAY HDB IS LH99 SO NOT ASSEST!! U SAY ONE NOT ME!!!! SO U JUSTIFY THAT AT END OF 99YR ITS ZERO.. SO I ASK YOU AGAIN. FIND ME ONE HDB THAT IS LH99 THAT BECOME ZERO.. I AM STILL WAITING LEH... PLS FIND ME ONE....
SO YOU ARE ALSO SAYING LH99 PRIVATE ARE NOT ASSETS TOO THEN!!! COZ IT HAVE THE SAME LOGIC AS YOU HAVE STATED!!! ZEROED !
minority,
ONE thing I know very well - 99LH properties will definitely be WORTH ZERO value and and their land must be returned to the GOVERNMENT after the end of 99 years lease, that is a FACT!
Are you trying to twist this and lie and tell us otherwise that this is not true? Come on, don't beat around the bush, just focus on answering the question! See who is bluffing................ :asshole:
And what is wrong with flipping PRATA? Are you telling us that those people flipping PRATA are low class, no moral character and value? Again, focus on answering the question? Are you like Jason Neo, can make derogatory remarks against some race and can get away is it?
invigorated
22-07-15, 23:05
Something (like 99years leasehold HDB flats) that will keep depreciating in value as times go by until they become ZERO value you call that "assets"?! No wonder you can never be rich!!!!!! :chargrined:
And you have no ball and brain to reply a simple question like below?:
TB, if you don't know the definition of asset, here it is:
1 plural
a :the property of a deceased person subject by law to the payment of his or her debts and legacies
b :the entire property of a person, association, corporation, or estate applicable or subject to the payment of debts
2 :advantage, resource <his wit is his chief asset>
3 a :an item of value owned
b plural :the items on a balance sheet showing the book value of property owned
4 :something useful in an effort to foil or defeat an enemy: as
a :a piece of military equipment
b :spy
Yes the hdb may be worth nothing at end of 99 years but we are not saying that everyone's going to sell it at end of 99 years correct?
An apple may eventually perish but as long as it's still edible enough, there is a value to it. Only rotten people will keen evaluating on the value of the apple when it's rotten. The rest just focus on harvesting more apples.
For him, car is also not asset, because COE expires. All jobs and businesses are also not assets as they will be given up or collapse one day (just see Nokia).
The only thing that is an asset to him is his FH CCR property. He does not know that if you use a HDB wisely, it can help one generate one or more properties (FH or LH). But even then, the asset that helps you get more assets (according to him), is not an asset.
Makes sense?
TB, if you don't know the definition of asset, here it is:
1 plural
a :the property of a deceased person subject by law to the payment of his or her debts and legacies
b :the entire property of a person, association, corporation, or estate applicable or subject to the payment of debts
2 :advantage, resource <his wit is his chief asset>
3 a :an item of value owned
b plural :the items on a balance sheet showing the book value of property owned
4 :something useful in an effort to foil or defeat an enemy: as
a :a piece of military equipment
b :spy
Yes the hdb may be worth nothing at end of 99 years but we are not saying that everyone's going to sell it at end of 99 years correct?
An apple may eventually perish but as long as it's still edible enough, there is a value to it. Only rotten people will keen evaluating on the value of the apple when it's rotten. The rest just focus on harvesting more apples.
Something (like 99years leasehold HDB flats) that will keep depreciating in value as times go by until they become ZERO value you call that "assets"?! No wonder you can never be rich!!!!!! :chargrined:
And you have no ball and brain to reply a simple question like below?:
WHAT COCK YOU TALKING.. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO BRING RACE INTO THIS CONVERSATION AND TRY TO INSINUATE SOMETHING. JUST LIKE THE BALLLESS ROY. LIES N MORE LIES N MORE TWISTED LIES.
IN CASE YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS FLIPPING PRATA? ITS A ACTION FLIPPING A PIECE OF DOUGH. FLIP N FLOP! EXACTLY SAME ACTION AS YOU HAVE BEEN VERY EXPERT AT. AND IF IN YOUR RACIST MIND THAT HAS SOME STEREOTYPING . THAT I CANNOT HELP YOU! WHAT A XENOPHOBIC RACIST!!!!
For him, car is also not asset, because COE expires. All jobs and businesses are also not assets as they will be given up or collapse one day (just see Nokia).
The only thing that is an asset to him is his FH CCR property. He does not know that if you use a HDB wisely, it can help one generate one or more properties (FH or LH). But even then, the asset that helps you get more assets (according to him), is not an asset.
Makes sense?
Minor correction. Only His FH or LH CCR are assets. everyone else are all useless and not assets. thats his wrap logic.
True to an extent. Prices of land, raw materials and manpower have gone up but there is a max for the selling price.
But empty apartments are always easier to maintain than one with flooring, cabinets, wall tiles. There is a depreciation cost for it.
My Old HDB flat also looks good when I sold it 12 yrs ago at that time. No problem for the complete 12 yrs during my stay. Even my tiles flooring, I dropped my iron on the floor, no chip either. I miss my old house, feel like buying a HDB again and spend my retired days there but rules not allowed for pte ppty owner.
minority,
Don't need to point fingers, I understand flipping prata, but the very fact that you are saying flipping prata is bad, so you are obviously insinuating that the particular race who are flipping prata to sell are bad? Wow! My goodness! You are as good as Jason Neo who had posted online a photo he had taken of a school bus with Malay children from Huda Kindergarten dressed in their uniform which includes traditional Malay headwear and putting a captioned on the photo: “Bus filled with young terrorist trainees?” :disgust:
You are similar: Point at particular race of people who make a living flipping prata to sell, then said in derogatory remarks that others are like these people FLIPPING PRATA, FLIP N FLOP! If this is not derogatory to the particular race, what is it?! :tongue-new:
If your intention is to say I "flip & flop", just say so, don't need to drag the particular race of people into it by calling me "flipping prata"! So what if I and the particular race of people flip prata, is it demeaning to flip prata???? If you have no intention to derogate the particular race then why you mention flipping prata to mean flip & flop? It is obvious that your RACIST mind are at work!!!!!!!!! :eagerness:
And applying your comments, how about this about Amos Yee's picture:
IF IN YOUR filthy MIND THAT HAS SOME STEREOTYPING . THAT I CANNOT HELP YOU! WHAT A XENOPHOBIC filthy and dirty minded to say a cartoon picture as obscene!!!! Is the picture (minus the face) obscene or the face in there obscene?
What a mockery when rape videos and scenes broadcast on TV by MediaCorp are considered perfectly acceptable to the toddlers and the young with no charges brought against MediaCorp!
WHAT COCK YOU TALKING.. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO BRING RACE INTO THIS CONVERSATION AND TRY TO INSINUATE SOMETHING. JUST LIKE THE BALLLESS ROY. LIES N MORE LIES N MORE TWISTED LIES.
IN CASE YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS FLIPPING PRATA? ITS A ACTION FLIPPING A PIECE OF DOUGH. FLIP N FLOP! EXACTLY SAME ACTION AS YOU HAVE BEEN VERY EXPERT AT. AND IF IN YOUR RACIST MIND THAT HAS SOME STEREOTYPING . THAT I CANNOT HELP YOU! WHAT A XENOPHOBIC RACIST!!!!
Just to check, can a developer bought a freehold land but sell to the public as 99 years only?
Just to check, can a developer bought a freehold land but sell to the public as 99 years only?
Oh, I mean after building an apartment/condo sell it as 99 years instead of FH.
My Old HDB flat also looks good when I sold it 12 yrs ago at that time. No problem for the complete 12 yrs during my stay. Even my tiles flooring, I dropped my iron on the floor, no chip either. I miss my old house, feel like buying a HDB again and spend my retired days there but rules not allowed for pte ppty owner.
Agreed that some HDB quality are really good.
Depends on when you buy, it might even be cheap.
Really a good deal for a citizen. On the bright side, you have managed to sell with profits and I guess the private property has also increased in value?
It depends on whether you really want a HDB again. My friend sold her private and rented a HDB for a few years waiting to be eligible again. So I guess is really about whether you really really want.
Oh, I mean after building an apartment/condo sell it as 99 years instead of FH.
Not sure. Sounds wrong to do that. Must confirm right from the start no?
minority,
Don't need to point fingers, I understand flipping prata, but the very fact that you are saying flipping prata is bad, so you are obviously insinuating that the particular race who are flipping prata to sell are bad? Wow! My goodness! You are as good as Jason Neo who had posted online a photo he had taken of a school bus with Malay children from Huda Kindergarten dressed in their uniform which includes traditional Malay headwear and putting a captioned on the photo: “Bus filled with young terrorist trainees?” :disgust:
You are similar: Point at particular race of people who make a living flipping prata to sell, then said in derogatory remarks that others are like these people FLIPPING PRATA, FLIP N FLOP! If this is not derogatory to the particular race, what is it?! :tongue-new:
If your intention is to say I "flip & flop", just say so, don't need to drag the particular race of people into it by calling me "flipping prata"! So what if I and the particular race of people flip prata, is it demeaning to flip prata???? If you have no intention to derogate the particular race then why you mention flipping prata to mean flip & flop? It is obvious that your RACIST mind are at work!!!!!!!!! :eagerness:
And applying your comments, how about this about Amos Yee's picture:
IF IN YOUR filthy MIND THAT HAS SOME STEREOTYPING . THAT I CANNOT HELP YOU! WHAT A XENOPHOBIC filthy and dirty minded to say a cartoon picture as obscene!!!! Is the picture (minus the face) obscene or the face in there obscene?
What a mockery when rape videos and scenes broadcast on TV by MediaCorp are considered perfectly acceptable to the toddlers and the young with no charges brought against MediaCorp!
HOW RACIST CAN A TWERP LIKE YOU CAN GET? I SAY YOU ARE FLIP FLOPPING LIKE FLIPPING PRATA YOU NOW WANT TO INSINLATE SOME RACIST CRAP. WELL NO WONDER YOU ARE SO SUPPORTIVE OF FAMOUS AMOS... FLIP AND FLOP LIKE PRATA!!!! OH YOU HAVE NOT HEARD OF SYNONYMS??? WOW. MUST DIRECTLY TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE STUPID?? CANNOT SAY YOU ARE PRETTY DULL?? WTF!!! ADMIT IT PRICK YOU ARE A BLOODY RACIST XENOPHOBIC PRICK TRYING TO INSUNATE RACIST REMARKS FROM NOTHING.
I SAY FLIPPING PRATA AND YOU CAN TWIST IT TO SOMETHING RACIST!!!!
SO I SAY YOU ARE A SHIT HEAD.. A FARTING DULL PIG or AS DUMB AS A COW. ETC WHAT OTHER RACIST INSINUATION WILL U COME UP WITH?? I REALLY AMAZE AT YOUR BULL SHIT. LET ME TEACH YOU ENGLISH. " FLIPPING PRATA " I.E. IS CALL A VERB WHICH IS DESCRIPTIVE OF A ACTION. YOUR SUPID EXAMPLE "BUS FULL OF TERRORIST" IS A NOUN WHICH IS DESCRIPTIVE OF A OBJECT. SO DONT COME TRY TWIST AND BULLSHIT YOUR WAY THROUGH WITH LIES AND CRAP. WE HAVE ENOUGH OF THOSE BULL SHIT FROM YOU.
BTW DONT GET CHEES OFF ITS ALL PART OF THE FREE SPEECH YOU SO MUCH STAND BEHIND AMOS THE COKKIE. FREE SPEECH IN YOUR MIND IS THE FREEDOM TO INSULT RIGHT!!!! SO IN THE CONCEPT OF YOUR FAV AMOS " YOU DUMB DICK GO WANK OFF SOME WHERE ELSE!"
OH BTW DID YOU GET HUMP BY YOUR DAD YESTERDAY THATS WHY YOU ARE SO TOUCHY FEELY?? TELL US?? MAYBE WE WILL TRY TO UNDERSTAND YOUR PAIN.
Oh, I mean after building an apartment/condo sell it as 99 years instead of FH.
IF they own the land yes. Far East did that for a few project in the east. The Shore for example. and in Newton beside the Chinese Clan they own the land and the sold the plot beside for LH99 to raise fund to upgrade the Clan building.
If in need of housing urgently or in a few years, this half year is the most ideal.
No need to rush cos lots of supply, can slowly beo, but if something you like, I don't think the price drop forward will really be meaningful, if any.
I am looking forward to Singapore Savings bond coming out soon.
You mentioned about looking forward to Singapore Saving Bond?
SSB is more toward wealth preservation and not for those who want to build their wealth. SSB is good as part of your investment portfolio to spread out your risk if your portfolio consists of more risky assets such as equity and bonds because SSB is as good as risk free with lower yield. You also need to note that the maximum you can hold is $100K and you cannot leverage. On the other hand, for property, bonds and even equity, you could leverage to earn higher returns. Of course these comes with risk.
For the rich, they are not likely to be interested in SSB. However, they may well still buy 100K just to keep them as part of their portfolio since it is risk free and 100K to them is peanut. To the middle income, 100K can be a lot of money especially if you need the cash to buy your first property. However, if you have 100K to spare and have no wish to invest in other risky asset, SSB is good to have.
SSB is likely to attract retail investors who have no access to the bond market and averse to the risky equity. SSB is mainly designed for these group of people which make up the majority of the population (the lower middle income and middle income).
Hope you find my writing useful.
You mentioned about looking forward to Singapore Saving Bond?
SSB is more toward wealth preservation and not for those who want to build their wealth. SSB is good as part of your investment portfolio to spread out your risk if your portfolio consists of more risky assets such as equity and bonds because SSB is as good as risk free with lower yield. You also need to note that the maximum you can hold is $100K and you cannot leverage. On the other hand, for property, bonds and even equity, you could leverage to earn higher returns. Of course these comes with risk.
For the rich, they are not likely to be interested in SSB. However, they may well still buy 100K just to keep therm as part of their portfolio since it is risk free and 100K to them is peanut. To the middle income, 100K can be a lot of money especially if you need the cash to buy your first property. However, if you have 100K to spare and have no wish to invest in other risky asset, SSB is good to have.
SSB is likely to attract retail investors who have no access to the bond market and averse to the risky equity. SSB is mainly designed for these group of people which make up the majority of the population (the lower middle income and middle income).
Hope you find my writing useful.
EHH according to teddy the bear middle income earn 160K min so actually 100K is nothing to most singaporean ;)
EHH according to teddy the bear middle income earn 160K min so actually 100K is nothing to most singaporean ;)
I would classify these people as upper middle income.
minority,
Now, another who agreed that $160k income is still "middle income".............
Why you want to keep insisting that $160k income is HIGH-INCOME and hence $2000k income becomes OBSCENE-INCOME? :disgust:
I would classify these people as upper middle income.
EHH according to teddy the bear middle income earn 160K min so actually 100K is nothing to most singaporean ;)
I would classify these people as upper middle income.
The trouble with most upper middle income especially if they are younger tend to be highly leveraged in property, bonds and even equity because they are in the stage of building their wealth. Their nettworth can be the same or even lower when comparing with the average middle income.
minority,
Now, another who agreed that $160k income is still "middle income".............
Why you want to keep insisting that $160k income is HIGH-INCOME and hence $2000k income becomes OBSCENE-INCOME? :disgust:
YES YES SO 160K IS MIDDLE INCOME LIKE YOU SAY THEN SINGAPOREAN ARE BLOODY RICH!!! compare to our MY neighbour Mean income of $2000. Thailand $1700pm , $1650 in Indonesia !! SINGAPOREAN MIDDLE INCOME ALL EARN 12K PM!!! WOW!!!! SINGAPOREAN ARE ALL VERY RICH SO RICH ALL LOOK AT EACH OTHER FEEL THE ARE NOT COZ SO MANY POPLE EARN 12K pm!!!!!
DONT TALK COCK LAH... PLS SHOW SOME STATS WHEN YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH. AS USUAL YOU LIKE TO QUOTE PEOPLE OUT OF CONTEXT. HE SAY UPPER MIDDLE. NOT MIDDLE INCOME YOU LIAR.
The trouble with most upper income especially if they are younger tend to be highly leveraged in property, bonds and even equity because they are in the stage of building their wealth. Their nettworth can be the same or even lower when comparing with the average middle income.
How can it be? coz according to the bear HDB is not a asset ;)
How can it be? coz according to the bear HDB is not a asset ;)
Purely from a financial standpoint, HDB flat is an asset because you could buy and sell. It may not be an asset class to the rich. However, to most average middle income, they see HDB flat as an asset because it makes up the bulk of their so call "investment". Then again, to the rich and upper middle income, HDB flat is not an asset class for investment.
Middle Income at what level is in comparison to a country in itself, not with other countries because of cost of living is different in the country etc.............
Like what you said need to compare to our Malaysia neighbours, let's say their Prime Minister only earns RM200k a year, Singapore's Prime Minister earns >$3800k a year (or 53.2x), so are you trying to tell us to equate Malaysia PM's pay to Singapore PM's pay AND trying to stress to us that Singapore PM's pay is OBSCENE-INCOME again? What is your MOTIVE??????????? :disgust:
YES YES SO 160K IS MIDDLE INCOME LIKE YOU SAY THEN SINGAPOREAN ARE BLOODY RICH!!! compare to our MY neighbour Mean income of $2000. Thailand $1700pm , $1650 in Indonesia !! SINGAPOREAN MIDDLE INCOME ALL EARN 12K PM!!! WOW!!!! SINGAPOREAN ARE ALL VERY RICH SO RICH ALL LOOK AT EACH OTHER FEEL THE ARE NOT COZ SO MANY POPLE EARN 12K pm!!!!!
DONT TALK COCK LAH... PLS SHOW SOME STATS WHEN YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH. AS USUAL YOU LIKE TO QUOTE PEOPLE OUT OF CONTEXT. HE SAY UPPER MIDDLE. NOT MIDDLE INCOME YOU LIAR.
minority,
Now, another who agreed that $160k income is still "middle income".............
Why you want to keep insisting that $160k income is HIGH-INCOME and hence $2000k income becomes OBSCENE-INCOME? :disgust:
You mentioned about looking forward to Singapore Saving Bond?
SSB is more toward wealth preservation and not for those who want to build their wealth. SSB is good as part of your investment portfolio to spread out your risk if your portfolio consists of more risky assets such as equity and bonds because SSB is as good as risk free with lower yield. You also need to note that the maximum you can hold is $100K and you cannot leverage. On the other hand, for property, bonds and even equity, you could leverage to earn higher returns. Of course these comes with risk.
For the rich, they are not likely to be interested in SSB. However, they may well still buy 100K just to keep them as part of their portfolio since it is risk free and 100K to them is peanut. To the middle income, 100K can be a lot of money especially if you need the cash to buy your first property. However, if you have 100K to spare and have no wish to invest in other risky asset, SSB is good to have.
SSB is likely to attract retail investors who have no access to the bond market and averse to the risky equity. SSB is mainly designed for these group of people which make up the majority of the population (the lower middle income and middle income).
Hope you find my writing useful.
Have several more risky instruments on hand. I think 100K SSB is decent backup for mortgages and emergencies. Can last a couple of years of mortgages if needed. Remaining funds can go for more risky ventures.
Agreed that some HDB quality are really good.
Depends on when you buy, it might even be cheap.
Really a good deal for a citizen. On the bright side, you have managed to sell with profits and I guess the private property has also increased in value?
It depends on whether you really want a HDB again. My friend sold her private and rented a HDB for a few years waiting to be eligible again. So I guess is really about whether you really really want.
My intention is to stay in HDB and rent out my private for rental income to support my old age. I had been staying in the HDB since young, till now still have that type of "close feeling" in staying in HDB, maybe because I'm getting older and older, trying to capture the past memories.
Middle Income at what level is in comparison to a country in itself, not with other countries because of cost of living is different in the country etc.............
Like what you said need to compare to our Malaysia neighbours, let's say their Prime Minister only earns RM200k a year, Singapore's Prime Minister earns >$3800k a year (or 53.2x), so are you trying to tell us to equate Malaysia PM's pay to Singapore PM's pay AND trying to stress to us that Singapore PM's pay is OBSCENE-INCOME again? What is your MOTIVE??????????? :disgust:
LOL!!!!! COMPARE WITH NAJIB?? ALL THE MAKAN $$ LEH MAYBE YOU U NEVER READ NEWS??? OR AS USUAL ONLY QUOTE WHAT YOU NEED TO JUSTIFY YOUR BULLSHIT! 1MBD LEH?? $700M USD LEH.. WITH THAT ITS LIKE WHAT 700 Xs SINGAPORE PM PAY!!!! THATS A GOOD COMPARISON!!! GOOD ONE!!!
SINCE YOU WANT TO COMPARE COUNTRY PRICE OK.... SURE... Middle income in Indo or Malaysia spend on Starbucks is $4.5-5 SGD for a coffee. SINGAPORE?? STAR BUCKS SAME COFFEE 5.5-6.5! AND SINGAPOREAN LIKE YOU SAY GET PAID! 12Kpm compare to the meagre MY/INDO >2K PM in neighbour countries!!! 6 X MORE!!!! and from the product consumtion stand pt we are only starbucks coffee in singapore only 20% more expensive!! WOW SINGAPOREAN EARN SO MUCH MORE CONSUMPTION SO MUCH LESSER THAN THE NEIGHBOUR COUNTRIES!!!!
SINGAPOREAN RICH AND COST LESSER TO SPEND IN COUNTRY AND BEST GO OVERSEAS LIKE FARKING KING COZ EARN 6X More Pay 20% less than home price when having holidays!!! WOW!!!
Now WHEN YOU WANT TO JUSTIFY BULLSHIT YOU SAY MUST LOOK AT LOCAL PAY. WHEN YOU WANT TO SAY OVERSEASE HOUSE CHEAP WHY YOU NEVER SAY THEY HAVE MORE LAND AND THIER LOCAL PAY ALSO LOWER? WHY? COZ AS USUAL YOU HAVE SELECTIVE COMPOSITION TO SPEW BULLSHIT AND LIES. ONLY CHOOSE ITEMS YOU WANT TO COMPARE TO JUSTIFY YOUR CRAP!
Purely from a financial standpoint, HDB flat is an asset because you could buy and sell. It may not be an asset class to the rich. However, to most average middle income, they see HDB flat as an asset because it makes up the bulk of their so call "investment". Then again, to the rich and upper middle income, HDB flat is not an asset class for investment.
Totally agree with that! Actually to the upper middle income as you classify those. a HDB are still treated as a asset. maybe they have moved on to private many still keep the HDB as a backup while derving rental from it to fund the current private home or maybe another investment home.
Have several more risky instruments on hand. I think 100K SSB is decent backup for mortgages and emergencies. Can last a couple of years of mortgages if needed. Remaining funds can go for more risky ventures.
Can buy it in smaller trenches as a ladder bond so various trenches matures one year after the other so to derive the max int over a period of time. while maintaining some year liquidity
My thinking is that, it depends on income earners. Low income earners (<2k) will consider $160K per year as a VERY high income while high income earners (eg >10 per month) will consider this amount is like a peanut. A person can never get satisfy with the amount of money they have.
My intention is to stay in HDB and rent out my private for rental income to support my old age. I had been staying in the HDB since young, till now still have that type of "close feeling" in staying in HDB, maybe because I'm getting older and older, trying to capture the past memories.
The upper middle income would not qualify to buy HDB flats. Those upper middle income own HDB flats in their earlier years were probably not upper middle income then, hence they still hold on to their HDB flats.
Just two points.
1. The hdb nowadays may be quite different from those of yesteryear. Depending on locality. You might or might not get used to it.
2. You can buy a hdb stay in it for 5 years, then buy private for rental if you wish. The option is still there but few are willing to undergo the difficult phases.
My intention is to stay in HDB and rent out my private for rental income to support my old age. I had been staying in the HDB since young, till now still have that type of "close feeling" in staying in HDB, maybe because I'm getting older and older, trying to capture the past memories.
invigorated
23-07-15, 14:05
My thinking is that, it depends on income earners. Low income earners (<2k) will consider $160K per year as a VERY high income while high income earners (eg >10 per month) will consider this amount is like a peanut. A person can never get satisfy with the amount of money they have.
Let's not let our personal bias cloud our judgement, especially when the percentiles are readily available from iras.
160k is neither middle income nor high middle income. It's high income.
From iras records, it's about top 11% of income earners ABOVE $30k pa. Teddy, where did you plug the fallacy from?
http://www.salary.sg/2014/compare-your-annual-income-2014/
The upper middle income would not qualify to buy HDB flats. Those upper middle income own HDB flats in their earlier years were probably not upper middle income then, hence they still hold on to their HDB flats.
Sorry, irisng, soppose to response to minority.
Not forgetting that those with less than 20K income do not pay tax.
Anyway I think he confused household income with personal income.
Let's not let our personal bias cloud our judgement, especially when the percentiles are readily available from iras.
160k is neither middle income nor high middle income. It's high income.
From iras records, it's about top 11% of income earners ABOVE $30k pa. Teddy, where did you plug the fallacy from?
http://www.salary.sg/2014/compare-your-annual-income-2014/
invigorated
23-07-15, 14:43
Not forgetting that those with less than 20K income do not pay tax.
Anyway I think he confused household income with personal income.
Yes agree, 160k will definitely rank higher than top 10% if you include those lower income earners.
I think S$160K GROSS personal income is not really that high, but S$160K TAXABLE personal income is fairly decent, probably in the upper middle range?
The upper middle income would not qualify to buy HDB flats. Those upper middle income own HDB flats in their earlier years were probably not upper middle income then, hence they still hold on to their HDB flats.
Yes it all depends on phases the person went through. Some of those who sold their HDB and upgraded and income bracket no longer eligible to apply or own a HDB might look back that they miss the change to hold on to theirs. and different people do hold on their assest with different view. be it monetary or sentimental.
Three biggest challenges Singapore will face up to SG100: Lee Hsien Loong
In the long term, maintaining a strong, unique national identity is key to prolonging Singapore's success story, says the Prime Minister.
POSTED: 23 Jul 2015 16:00 UPDATED: 23 Jul 2015 16:25
SINGAPORE: Enhancing the economy, the ageing population and maintaining a national identity are the three biggest challenges that Singapore faces over the next half-century, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said.
The immediate challenge over the next decade is getting the economy to the next level, he said in an interview published by Time magazine on Thursday (Jul 23).
"We are looking for a path which no country has yet found and we are not even an economy like the Japanese or Germans, or never mind the big power economy. So to get to the next level is a big challenge, if we don't get to the next level then we will have malaise and the angst, and even disillusionment which you see in many developed countries," he said.
In this time, the country's demographics will not have become a major issue - but it will be in a generation's time, on a 25-year timeframe, Mr Lee said.
If Singapore does not get the balance between its birthrate and immigration policies right, the country could end up in the same "tight spot" the Japanese currently face, he added.
But the key to keep Singapore successful in 2065 - 50 years from now, and a hundred years from Independence - is in maintaining a unique sense of national identity, he told Time.
"Before you can make any policies and get people to say 'I want to do this or the other', first, people must feel that we are Singaporeans and we want to be together and we are different from the others and we are special," Mr Lee said.
"And keeping that sense of unity and specialness over the long-term - I think it is critical and it is a very big challenge."
THE SINGAPORE APPROACH
Mr Lee said that the landmark of 50 years of Independence is a time of both celebration and soul-searching for Singapore.
"After 50 years we still have a strong consensus and we can celebrate the 50th anniversary together. For many countries, the 50th anniversary is a very thought-provoking time; I mean it is troubled because the starting premises of the country - the initial fervour, the ideals have been modified, the political consensus is no longer there," said the Prime Minister.
"The world has changed and them, the society has changed and they ask themselves 'What am I, why do I still exist?'"
Asked to define if there is a "Singapore model" of development, Mr Lee said there was not so much a model but an approach that Singapore has always taken: A pragmatic one based on looking for "solutions which work".
"You are talking about both economic development as well as social development, and you are talking about a society and a political system where we are trying to work towards a middle ground rather than to work towards division between either economic interest groups or racial groups or rich and poor or left- and right wing - or geographical divisions. This is one Singapore to a very considerable extent," he said.
"There is competition, there is opposition, they compete, sometimes they win seats, but basically most people benefit from the system and uphold the system."
- CNA/es
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/three-biggest-challenges/2002256.html
It's already quite obvious what PM will emphasise during PM rally.
Just two points.
1. The hdb nowadays may be quite different from those of yesteryear. Depending on locality. You might or might not get used to it.
2. You can buy a hdb stay in it for 5 years, then buy private for rental if you wish. The option is still there but few are willing to undergo the difficult phases.
Thanks. I'm not young enough to go through the difficult phases anymore. Just hope that govt will allow private owners to buy the HDB from the open markets but hopefully by the time, I'm still around. BTW I'm still eligible to buy the HDB.
Let's not let our personal bias cloud our judgement, especially when the percentiles are readily available from iras.
160k is neither middle income nor high middle income. It's high income.
From iras records, it's about top 11% of income earners ABOVE $30k pa. Teddy, where did you plug the fallacy from?
http://www.salary.sg/2014/compare-your-annual-income-2014/
A person with $160k income will definitely said that that is not a high income because money is always not enough. But to me, earning $160k per year is considered as a high income.
Just two points.
1. The hdb nowadays may be quite different from those of yesteryear. Depending on locality. You might or might not get used to it.
2. You can buy a hdb stay in it for 5 years, then buy private for rental if you wish. The option is still there but few are willing to undergo the difficult phases.
Different in what sense? Can you explain what you mean by difficult phase?
My thinking is that, it depends on income earners. Low income earners (<2k) will consider $160K per year as a VERY high income while high income earners (eg >10 per month) will consider this amount is like a peanut. A person can never get satisfy with the amount of money they have.
I think it has more to do with your social circle. If your friends and family are all in that income bracket, you wun feel at all that you are a high income earner.
I think it has more to do with your social circle. If your friends and family are all in that income bracket, you wun feel at all that you are a high income earner.
SO when every singaporean according to Teddy large majority earn 160K. No wonder they dont feel they are doing well. and he feel they deserve even more freebiz and tax breaks. LOL! sound self serving.
High-income or not should not be based on top how many % earners in the country is considered high income, similarly for middle-income, otherwise consider those very poor countries, like Indonesia, high-income only earning US$1000 per month or more (the "high-income" bar is so low)??????
If you count this way, then, the middle-incomers percentage will always be the same, and it contradicts the claim made by Singapore government whereby they state that Singapore is prosperous because there is a very large percentage of middle-incomers, much more than many other countries around us...........
Let's not let our personal bias cloud our judgement, especially when the percentiles are readily available from iras.
160k is neither middle income nor high middle income. It's high income.
From iras records, it's about top 11% of income earners ABOVE $30k pa. Teddy, where did you plug the fallacy from?
http://www.salary.sg/2014/compare-your-annual-income-2014/
minority,
What do you mean by Najib makan 1MBD $700M USD?
Come on,
minority, do you have evidence to prove that Najib makan 1MBD $700M USD to make that statement?
If you don't have evidence, then AREN'T you making false and defamatory allegation which is totally untrue????? :asshole:
If you don't have evidence and yet make such un-substantiated statement, you are no better than Roy Ngerng right?!!!! :pig:
minority,
Again, above just shows you are a loud mouth with no integrity and moral character and yet are trying to "lecture" others about integrity and moral character, a bunch of bullshit and hypocrite words!!! :tsk-tsk:
LOL!!!!! COMPARE WITH NAJIB?? ALL THE MAKAN $$ LEH MAYBE YOU U NEVER READ NEWS??? OR AS USUAL ONLY QUOTE WHAT YOU NEED TO JUSTIFY YOUR BULLSHIT! 1MBD LEH?? $700M USD LEH.. WITH THAT ITS LIKE WHAT 700 Xs SINGAPORE PM PAY!!!! THATS A GOOD COMPARISON!!! GOOD ONE!!!
SINCE YOU WANT TO COMPARE COUNTRY PRICE OK.... SURE... Middle income in Indo or Malaysia spend on Starbucks is $4.5-5 SGD for a coffee. SINGAPORE?? STAR BUCKS SAME COFFEE 5.5-6.5! AND SINGAPOREAN LIKE YOU SAY GET PAID! 12Kpm compare to the meagre MY/INDO >2K PM in neighbour countries!!! 6 X MORE!!!! and from the product consumtion stand pt we are only starbucks coffee in singapore only 20% more expensive!! WOW SINGAPOREAN EARN SO MUCH MORE CONSUMPTION SO MUCH LESSER THAN THE NEIGHBOUR COUNTRIES!!!!
SINGAPOREAN RICH AND COST LESSER TO SPEND IN COUNTRY AND BEST GO OVERSEAS LIKE FARKING KING COZ EARN 6X More Pay 20% less than home price when having holidays!!! WOW!!!
Now WHEN YOU WANT TO JUSTIFY BULLSHIT YOU SAY MUST LOOK AT LOCAL PAY. WHEN YOU WANT TO SAY OVERSEASE HOUSE CHEAP WHY YOU NEVER SAY THEY HAVE MORE LAND AND THIER LOCAL PAY ALSO LOWER? WHY? COZ AS USUAL YOU HAVE SELECTIVE COMPOSITION TO SPEW BULLSHIT AND LIES. ONLY CHOOSE ITEMS YOU WANT TO COMPARE TO JUSTIFY YOUR CRAP!
Middle Income at what level is in comparison to a country in itself, not with other countries because of cost of living is different in the country etc.............
Like what you said need to compare to our Malaysia neighbours, let's say their Prime Minister only earns RM200k a year, Singapore's Prime Minister earns >$3800k a year (or 53.2x), so are you trying to tell us to equate Malaysia PM's pay to Singapore PM's pay AND trying to stress to us that Singapore PM's pay is OBSCENE-INCOME again? What is your MOTIVE??????????? :disgust:
invigorated
25-07-15, 01:45
High-income or not should not be based on top how many % earners in the country is considered high income, similarly for middle-income, otherwise consider those very poor countries, like Indonesia, high-income only earning US$1000 per month or more (the "high-income" bar is so low)??????
If you count this way, then, the middle-incomers percentage will always be the same, and it contradicts the claim made by Singapore government whereby they state that Singapore is prosperous because there is a very large percentage of middle-incomers, much more than many other countries around us...........
This logic is irrational. Please la, high, median or low incomes are mathematically and statistically derived, not your suka suka definition aka 'i like so i define 160k as middle income' logic..
Quoting asiaone:
In Singapore, there is no official definition, although two National University of Singapore academics, who published a study on the subject last November, defined the middle class as those whose household income falls between $2,001 and $5,000 - 40 per cent of the citizen population.
http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20130312-408083.html
SO when every singaporean according to Teddy large majority earn 160K. No wonder they dont feel they are doing well. and he feel they deserve even more freebiz and tax breaks. LOL! sound self serving.
He should be in that situation so u r right. His friends and family probably all in that bracket so he doesn't feel that he is in a high imcome bracket. Or perhaps he is at the bottom of his social circle.
He should be in that situation so u r right. His friends and family probably all in that bracket so he doesn't feel that he is in a high imcome bracket. Or perhaps he is at the bottom of his social circle.
Yes, I have a friend who earns that figure. Uses up all his baby bonus tax incentives (8 or 10K) in one year and says he is average income earner only.
MPs probably earn 15-16K per month too, not including sidelines.
Statistically there are high income earners. They just don't know it themselves because the people around them earn even more.
So, how do the NUS academics derive middle income to be $2,001 and $5,000? :mask: It means taking bottom 40% or middle 40%? If you accept their definition, that means the % is always the same for every countries, and every country MUST have same % of middle-income right? Then why Singapore can claim itself to be more prosperous than its neighbors just because Singapore claimed to be have a much larger population of MIDDLE-INCOME? Contradiction contradiction.......... :devilish:
Based on my usage of statistics, if $2000k is HIGH-INCOME, $15k is LOW-INCOME, then it is perfectly reasonable to label those earning $160k as being MIDDLE-INCOME, and fair statistics too because they are about 12x of each other. Obviously you can only expect NUS academics to say only "politically correct" thing, and for 1 thing, they will never say $2000k is OBSCENE-INCOME for politicians right? Then, they will obviously also agree with me that $2000k is HIGH-INCOME, which means that $160k CANNOT be HIGH-INCOME! Now, some people will say $160k should be "HIGH MIDDLE-INCOME", but that is still "MIDDLE INCOME" but only on the high side only right but NEVER HIGH-INCOME! :applouse:
And for another thing, $160k-500k probably are still only "MIDDLE-INCOME", as are those earning $50k-160k. Those earning below $50k per year should be HIGH "LOW-INCOME"?
This logic is irrational. Please la, high, median or low incomes are mathematically and statistically derived, not your suka suka definition aka 'i like so i define 160k as middle income' logic..
Quoting asiaone:
In Singapore, there is no official definition, although two National University of Singapore academics, who published a study on the subject last November, defined the middle class as those whose household income falls between $2,001 and $5,000 - 40 per cent of the citizen population.
http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20130312-408083.html
So, how do the NUS academics derive middle income to be $2,001 and $5,000? :mask: It means taking bottom 40% or middle 40%? If you accept their definition, that means the % is always the same for every countries, and every country MUST have same % of middle-income right? Then why Singapore can claim itself to be more prosperous than its neighbors just because Singapore claimed to be have a much larger population of MIDDLE-INCOME? Contradiction contradiction.......... :devilish:
Based on my usage of statistics, if $2000k is HIGH-INCOME, $15k is LOW-INCOME, then it is perfectly reasonable to label those earning $160k as being MIDDLE-INCOME, and fair statistics too because they are about 12x of each other. Obviously you can only expect NUS academics to say only "politically correct" thing, and for 1 thing, they will never say $2000k is OBSCENE-INCOME for politicians right? Then, they will obviously also agree with me that $2000k is HIGH-INCOME, which means that $160k CANNOT be HIGH-INCOME! Now, some people will say $160k should be "HIGH MIDDLE-INCOME", but that is still "MIDDLE INCOME" but only on the high side only right but NEVER HIGH-INCOME! :applouse:
And for another thing, $160k-500k probably are still only "MIDDLE-INCOME", as are those earning $50k-160k. Those earning below $50k per year should be HIGH "LOW-INCOME"?
AS USUALY A LOAD OF FARTING BULLSHIT FOR A SAT AFTERNOON. YOUR STATISTICS!!! AHAH HAHA HAHA DONT MAKE BE LAUGH LEH.. MY TOES ARE ALL LAUGHING EVEN MY DOG IS.. PRATA MAN HAVE STATISTICS??? WOW DONT LATER FLIP HERE FLIP THERE AGAIN??? DONT CANNOT WIN A ARGUEMENT QUOTE RACIAL INSINUATION OR NOW EVEN BETTER OWN STATISTICS!!! LOL!! WHO THE FART CARE ABOUT YOUR STATISTICS!!!! SOME BULLS SHIT YOU PULL OUT OF YOUR ASS!!!!
SINGAPORE IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST PER CAPITA INCOME WHICH IS IN LINE WITH THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES!!!
HERE ARE SOME REAL! STATISTICS FOR YOU TO SUCK ON!!!!
Singapore 38K!
Malaysia 7K
Japan 37K
United States 45K!
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapore/gdp-per-capita
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/malaysia/gdp-per-capita
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/gdp-per-capita
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-per-capita
And this is not taking into consideration the hefty tax leveled in those countries compared to Singapore!
BUT THEN AGAIN WHAT DO a LIEING FART LIKE YOU CARE ABOUT REAL WORLD STATISTICS!!!! YES CONTINUE PULL OUT CRAP STATS FROM YOUR ASS . YOU SELF SERVING BULLSHIT.!!! COZ BASE ON YOUR BULLSHIT 160k sINGAPORE SHOULD BE THE KING OF THE WORLD THEN!! EVEN US WORLD BIGGEST ECONOMY CANNOT SMELL OUR DUST IN TERMS OF INCOME!
minority,
Don't lie lah.......
Who said Singapore is 1 of the highest per capita income in the world in line with developed countries?
But why you don't tell us that the same publication also say Singapore has 1 of the highest RICH-POOR gap in the world that is OUT-OF-LINE with many developed countries in the world?
AS USUALY A LOAD OF FARTING BULLSHIT FOR A SAT AFTERNOON. YOUR STATISTICS!!! AHAH HAHA HAHA DONT MAKE BE LAUGH LEH.. MY TOES ARE ALL LAUGHING EVEN MY DOG IS.. PRATA MAN HAVE STATISTICS??? WOW DONT LATER FLIP HERE FLIP THERE AGAIN??? DONT CANNOT WIN A ARGUEMENT QUOTE RACIAL INSINUATION OR NOW EVEN BETTER OWN STATISTICS!!! LOL!! WHO THE FART CARE ABOUT YOUR STATISTICS!!!! SOME BULLS SHIT YOU PULL OUT OF YOUR ASS!!!!
SINGAPORE IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST PER CAPITA INCOME WHICH IS IN LINE WITH THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES!!!
HERE ARE SOME REAL! STATISTICS FOR YOU TO SUCK ON!!!!
Singapore 38K!
Malaysia 7K
Japan 37K
United States 45K!
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapore/gdp-per-capita
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/malaysia/gdp-per-capita
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/gdp-per-capita
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-per-capita
And this is not taking into consideration the hefty tax leveled in those countries compared to Singapore!
BUT THEN AGAIN WHAT DO a LIEING FART LIKE YOU CARE ABOUT REAL WORLD STATISTICS!!!! YES CONTINUE PULL OUT CRAP STATS FROM YOUR ASS . YOU SELF SERVING BULLSHIT.!!! COZ BASE ON YOUR BULLSHIT 160k sINGAPORE SHOULD BE THE KING OF THE WORLD THEN!! EVEN US WORLD BIGGEST ECONOMY CANNOT SMELL OUR DUST IN TERMS OF INCOME!
minority,
What do you mean by Najib makan 1MBD $700M USD?
Come on,
minority, do you have evidence to prove that Najib makan 1MBD $700M USD to make that statement?
If you don't have evidence, then AREN'T you making false and defamatory allegation which is totally untrue????? :asshole:
If you don't have evidence and yet make such un-substantiated statement, you are no better than Roy Ngerng right?!!!! :pig:
minority,
Again, above just shows you are a loud mouth with no integrity and moral character and yet are trying to "lecture" others about integrity and moral character, a bunch of bullshit and hypocrite words!!! :tsk-tsk:
I BASICALLY ASK YOU IF YOU READ THE PAPERS?? DOCUMENTS LEAKED FROM THE INVESTIGATIONS? HOW ABOUT NAJIB NEVER DENY RECEIVEING THE FUNDS ? OTHER THAN EHH NEVER USE FOR PERSONAL USE. PUBLIC FUNDS DEPOSITED IN OWN ACCT !!!!! U CAN CALL IT MAKAN , CHAMPOT, SUKA, MASUK, WHAT EVER SHIT U WANT TO CALL IT. DONT COME GIVE ME THE CRAP ABOUT NAJIB PAY. PER YEAR 300KRM CAN BUY JET? CAN BUY A FARTING BIG HOUSE IN BEVELEY HILL? CAN HAVE A PALACE LIKE HOME IN MALAYSIA? WIFE WHO DONT WORK CAN GO ON SHOPPING SPREE ARD THE WORLD? DONT COME BULLSHIT ME LAH..
SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING OUR SINGAPOREAN MIDDLE CLASS LIKE YOU SAY THE 160k VERY POOR THING FOLKS SHOULD GO MALAYSIA! COZ THEY ALL CAN PARTY LIKE THE PM!!!! SHOP LIKE THE WIFE!!! BUY PROPERTY IN BEVERLY HILL AND EVEN OWN 2 JETS!!! COZ DUAL INCOME IN PER HOUSE HOLD INCOME WILL BE 320k!!!! HUAT AH!!! NO NEED TAX BREAK IN SINGAPORE LAH NO NEED WAHT SPECIAL HAND OUT WHICH ARE PEANUTS! GO PARTY IN LIKE NAJIB!!!
PICTURE TELL A THOUSAND WORDS SO i CALL UR BULL SHIT AND LIES ALL THAT SELF SERVING BULLSHIT AND CRAP YOU PULL OUT FROM YOUR ASS!
YEAH THATS un un un beliveliable.!!! STUN LIKE VEGETABLES!!!
http://says.com/my/news/prime-minister-najib-official-residence-electricity-bill-cost-rm2-2-million-in-2012
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/assets/uploads/articles/Private_jet_Najib_malaysia_rafizi_ramli_2015.jpg
http://images.says.com/uploads/story_source/source_image/213876/418e.jpeg
http://images.says.com/uploads/story_source/source_image/201054/3466.png
minority,
Papers say you believe? Roy Ngerng and some other people on internet also said PM Lee misappropriated CPF money, so you will believe?!
What is the difference between you saying Najib took 1MDB money and Roy Ngerng saying PM Lee misappropriate CPF money? Same right?! No evidence, quote other people say only!
So far, all those so-called documents still have not been authenticated to be genuine, and not confirmed by Malaysia Police and Malaysia's Attorney General. Some people have also questioned about them and that even the documents provider Justo said they have been tempered with!
So, most important thing is: when you made the statement that Najib took the money, are you in possession of solid and concrete and substantiated evidence that you are sure are authentic and have not been tampered with?
minority,
stop beating around the bush lah, we know your tactic!
And despite you vehemently saying that the picture posted by Amos Yee is obscene, you still cannot tell us how exactly that picture is obscene, as compared to MediaCorp's rape scenes and another picture similar to what Amos Yee posted on the internet. Strange, that picture why AG didn't take action because if the picture Amos Yee posted is obscene, that picture is also obscene right (since it has LKY's face in it)?
minority, you didn't do your job and make police report on that picture is it?????? :scared-3:
Wow, interesting, people still know how much Malaysia's PM and DPM spend on electricity, on prime minister's residence etc.
By the way, do you know how much Singapore spend on Istana used by the President and Prime Minister?
Do you know have much money is being managed by GIC and their assets and market values over the years?
Do you know have much money is being managed by Temasek and their assets and market values over the years?
Do you know have much money is being managed by MAS and their assets and market values over the years?
In the past, the Singapore government denied that CPF money has been used by GIC and Temasek for investments, But now they confirmed that CPF money has been taken by GIC and Temasek to invest. So do you know how much CPF money has been taken by GIC and Temasek to invest?
I BASICALLY ASK YOU IF YOU READ THE PAPERS?? DOCUMENTS LEAKED FROM THE INVESTIGATIONS? HOW ABOUT NAJIB NEVER DENY RECEIVEING THE FUNDS ? OTHER THAN EHH NEVER USE FOR PERSONAL USE. PUBLIC FUNDS DEPOSITED IN OWN ACCT !!!!! U CAN CALL IT MAKAN , CHAMPOT, SUKA, MASUK, WHAT EVER SHIT U WANT TO CALL IT. DONT COME GIVE ME THE CRAP ABOUT NAJIB PAY. PER YEAR 300KRM CAN BUY JET? CAN BUY A FARTING BIG HOUSE IN BEVELEY HILL? CAN HAVE A PALACE LIKE HOME IN MALAYSIA? WIFE WHO DONT WORK CAN GO ON SHOPPING SPREE ARD THE WORLD? DONT COME BULLSHIT ME LAH..
SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING OUR SINGAPOREAN MIDDLE CLASS LIKE YOU SAY THE 160k VERY POOR THING FOLKS SHOULD GO MALAYSIA! COZ THEY ALL CAN PARTY LIKE THE PM!!!! SHOP LIKE THE WIFE!!! BUY PROPERTY IN BEVERLY HILL AND EVEN OWN 2 JETS!!! COZ DUAL INCOME IN PER HOUSE HOLD INCOME WILL BE 320k!!!! HUAT AH!!! NO NEED TAX BREAK IN SINGAPORE LAH NO NEED WAHT SPECIAL HAND OUT WHICH ARE PEANUTS! GO PARTY IN LIKE NAJIB!!!
PICTURE TELL A THOUSAND WORDS SO i CALL UR BULL SHIT AND LIES ALL THAT SELF SERVING BULLSHIT AND CRAP YOU PULL OUT FROM YOUR ASS!
YEAH THATS un un un beliveliable.!!! STUN LIKE VEGETABLES!!!
http://says.com/my/news/prime-minister-najib-official-residence-electricity-bill-cost-rm2-2-million-in-2012
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/assets/uploads/articles/Private_jet_Najib_malaysia_rafizi_ramli_2015.jpg
http://images.says.com/uploads/story_source/source_image/213876/418e.jpeg
http://images.says.com/uploads/story_source/source_image/201054/3466.png
minority,
What do you mean by Najib makan 1MBD $700M USD?
Come on,
minority, do you have evidence to prove that Najib makan 1MBD $700M USD to make that statement?
If you don't have evidence, then AREN'T you making false and defamatory allegation which is totally untrue????? :asshole:
If you don't have evidence and yet make such un-substantiated statement, you are no better than Roy Ngerng right?!!!! :pig:
minority,
Again, above just shows you are a loud mouth with no integrity and moral character and yet are trying to "lecture" others about integrity and moral character, a bunch of bullshit and hypocrite words!!! :tsk-tsk:
minority,
More questions for you, if you want to talk about transparency etc:
- Do you know how much Temasek CEO is paid every year, inclusive of bonuses, perks, stock options (if any)?
- Do you know how much GIC CEO/Managing Director is paid every year, inclusive of bonuses, perks, stock options (if any)?
- Do you know how much ministers who take up the role of directors and Chairmanship in GIC are being paid in directorship fees, salaries, perks, allowances etc (if any)?
- Do you know how much assets Singapore really has? (Since the ex-President Ong Teng Cheong who was supposed to be the guardian of these assets admitted that he don't even know! He tried to ask for the information but was not given!)
- .... (what else that we don't know, there are many right?)............
minority,
Papers say you believe? Roy Ngerng and some other people on internet also said PM Lee misappropriated CPF money, so you will believe?!
What is the difference between you saying Najib took 1MDB money and Roy Ngerng saying PM Lee misappropriate CPF money? Same right?! No evidence, quote other people say only!
So far, all those so-called documents still have not been authenticated to be genuine, and not confirmed by Malaysia Police and Malaysia's Attorney General. Some people have also questioned about them and that even the documents provider Justo said they have been tempered with!
So, most important thing is: when you made the statement that Najib took the money, are you in possession of solid and concrete and substantiated evidence that you are sure are authentic and have not been tampered with?
minority,
stop beating around the bush lah, we know your tactic!
And despite you vehemently saying that the picture posted by Amos Yee is obscene, you still cannot tell us how exactly that picture is obscene, as compared to MediaCorp's rape scenes and another picture similar to what Amos Yee posted on the internet. Strange, that picture why AG didn't take action because if the picture Amos Yee posted is obscene, that picture is also obscene right (since it has LKY's face in it)?
minority, you didn't do your job and make police report on that picture is it?????? :scared-3:
Wow, interesting, people still know how much Malaysia's PM and DPM spend on electricity, on prime minister's residence etc.
By the way, do you know how much Singapore spend on Istana used by the President and Prime Minister?
Do you know have much money is being managed by GIC and their assets and market values over the years?
Do you know have much money is being managed by Temasek and their assets and market values over the years?
Do you know have much money is being managed by MAS and their assets and market values over the years?
In the past, the Singapore government denied that CPF money has been used by GIC and Temasek for investments, But now they confirmed that CPF money has been taken by GIC and Temasek to invest. So do you know how much CPF money has been taken by GIC and Temasek to invest?
Loads of craps bulls…
Snore…
You are right, minority full loads of craps............. :applause:
Loads of craps bulls…
Snore…
If you count this way, then, the middle-incomers percentage will always be the same, and it contradicts the claim made by Singapore government whereby they state that Singapore is prosperous because there is a very large percentage of middle-incomers, much more than many other countries around us...........
If 160k per year (approx. 13k per month) is not considered as a high income, that means my household income is considered VERY VERY LOW because my monthly household income is <10k. Why govt said that S'pore is prosperous, maybe because there are such people like us with "so low income" and yet still can afford 2 pte ppty or 1 HDB and 1 pte ppty (with hard-earned money). So we are not considered as high income earners, why are we deprived from buying HDB just because we have pte ppty? Why from the implementation of GST rebates till now, we have not received any rebates from the govt., I thought GST rebates is to help the low income earners? I'm sure there are many people who earn even lesser than us, maybe monthly household income <5k, how should these type of people classify under?
According to minority, if you want to believe, he will tell you that middle-incomers (per person) earns from $15k a year to $100k a year, so $160k (per person) a year is considered HIGH-INCOME.... (BUT then he will NOT tell you that $2000k (per person) a year income is then considered OBSCENE-INCOME (relative to $160k).....)
You can accept minority's definition if you feel good about it (and pretend that you don't know there are now quite a large number of people earning $2000k (per person) a year income or more)................. :drinking_coffee_ico
Since minority want to insist that $160k per year is considered "HIGH-INCOME", so he is telling us that $2000k per year income is "OBSCENE-INCOME"????
However, I just want to be realistic, considering the RICH-POOR divide and divergence as the years goes by..... Furthermore, how can we consider people earning $2000k a year, like the Minister, to be considered earning "OBSCENE-INCOME"????
Realistic approximations tells me that we should instead take multiples from each categories, starting from the lowest income or minimum wage group....
If min wage is $14k a year and considered "LOW-INCOME", then taking about 12x will result in $160k being "MIDDLE-INCOME", and take another 12x will result in about $2000k being "HIGH-INCOME", and take another 12x will result in $24,000k being "OBSCENE-INCOME" (note: this is income or earned salary, not business profits. This is a reasonable figure because then CEOs in Singapore also earning "HIGH-INCOME", not "OBSCENE-INCOME".... )
Obvious, this is an estimation but realistic, and if more people earning within $160k range, then there are more "MIDDLE-INCOME" people, if more people earn near the $14k a year range, then there are more "LOW-INCOME" people. In this way, the % of "MIDDLE-INCOME" are not fixed, but based on how much you earn...
So, $100k a year (per person) is also considered "MIDDLE-INCOME", but albeit on the low side (sorry to say that)...
If you look at the policies now, they are meant only to take care of the LOW "LOW-INCOME", not the "MIDDLE-INCOME" as even the LOW "MIDDLE-INCOME" still has enough to eat.... As the Minister says, "you want a meal in the hawker centre, food court, or restaurant"? So, more hawker centre will resolve the problem......... And "MIDDLE-INCOME" should not be entitled to any benefits because they don't want to breed people who are lazy to work right? (and I agreed with that too!)
Oh about cannot buy HDB flats thing because income too "high", my understanding is that sooner or later the income ceiling will be raised, reflecting changing income and affordability of the people for the past 2 decades....
As to what you say about properties you can afford, did you afford a real asset that is yours forever or you "own" something that expires at the end of 99 years???? Did you have to slough to achieve afford those??? Singaporeans are know to work the longest hours in the world, and that explains why we have 1 of the lowest birth rate in the world....
If 160k per year (approx. 13k per month) is not considered as a high income, that means my household income is considered VERY VERY LOW because my monthly household income is <10k. Why govt said that S'pore is prosperous, maybe because there are such people like us with "so low income" and yet still can afford 2 pte ppty or 1 HDB and 1 pte ppty (with hard-earned money). So we are not considered as high income earners, why are we deprived from buying HDB just because we have pte ppty? Why from the implementation of GST rebates till now, we have not received any rebates from the govt., I thought GST rebates is to help the low income earners? I'm sure there are many people who earn even lesser than us, maybe monthly household income <5k, how should these type of people classify under?
It's quite apparent that Teddy is just taking the highest income level and lowest income level and finding a figure somewhat in the middle between those figures without taking the actual population percentage into consideration which in itself isn't entirely wrong. I often wonder if my personal income now is say 5K a month? - It will be a very tight stretch to keep up with the standard of living in SG.
and ya, I'm personally amazed with folks who earn lesser but have many assets. I guess that comes with a lot of prudent spending and sounds investments during the property boom days or some people got property inheritance from older generations. Higher income owners may not necessary have that much after all.
If 160k per year (approx. 13k per month) is not considered as a high income, that means my household income is considered VERY VERY LOW because my monthly household income is <10k. Why govt said that S'pore is prosperous, maybe because there are such people like us with "so low income" and yet still can afford 2 pte ppty or 1 HDB and 1 pte ppty (with hard-earned money). So we are not considered as high income earners, why are we deprived from buying HDB just because we have pte ppty? Why from the implementation of GST rebates till now, we have not received any rebates from the govt., I thought GST rebates is to help the low income earners? I'm sure there are many people who earn even lesser than us, maybe monthly household income <5k, how should these type of people classify under?
Already a good fortune to be able to get a private home from yesteryear's prices. Be aware of some even trying to afford HDB at today's prices. And many others trying to afford old condo at yesteryear's prices and sizes. In all, in excellent shape. Many choices abound if they are carefully considered.
Already a good fortune to be able to get a private home from yesteryear's prices. Be aware of some even trying to afford HDB at today's prices. And many others trying to afford old condo at yesteryear's prices and sizes. In all, in excellent shape. Many choices abound if they are carefully considered.
That's why I was trying to say, why Singapore is prosperous, living in Singapore is fortunate, most Singaporeans with middle income (I considered mine as one of the middle income group, if I consider $160k per year to high income group, if $160k per year is considered as middle income, then mine will be considered as low income) are able to afford at least 1 or more properties, be it HDB or private owned, whether is it 99 yrs, 999 years or FH.
High Income or Low Income to anyone is about relative to what they have and how they spend.
A person can have a million dollar within 1 year back to zero.
Should look at the other source of Income, expense and most important Health.
You bring nothing to this World, You take nothing out of this World.
Every second in this World is a Bonus, spend it wisely.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/-it-doesn-t-mean-we-are-rich-just-because-we-live-here-023317465.html
"It doesn't mean we are rich just because we live here"
By Nicholas Yong | Yahoo Newsroom – 9 hours ago
Call it the power of mrbrown: The popular blogger's tweet about a private property owner's gripe is circulating online, provoking indignation and endless mockery.
In a profile of Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's Ang Mo Kio GRC by The Straits Times, father of three Chew B.W. was one of the constituents interviewed. His complaint: Not enough is being done for those living in private estates.
Mr Chew noted the rising cost of living, such as the cost of a year's tuition at The Learning Lab ($4,000) and a fencing costume for one of his children ($600). He added: "It doesn't mean we are rich just because we live here. The Government should also help people like us - we pay the most taxes."
According to the Manpower Ministry's website, the median gross monthly income in June 2014 was $3,770. The cost of a semi-detached house typically runs into seven figures.
Mr Chew's sentiments got short shrift from netizens on social media. The tweet has been retweeted almost 570 times.
Here are some of the choicer comments on Twitter:
https://mobile.twitter.com/mrbrown/status/625208514126843904
Over on Facebook, user Callan Tham said: "Here, let me play the world's smallest violin for them." Kwan Tuck Soon also remarked: "The gahmen should help them upgrade to a mansion with a fencing room."
But it was Reddit user xavierkoh who had perhaps the most reasoned response: "Perhaps what we really need to cultivate as a community is a sense of empathy for the less privileged instead of always focusing on our own problems which might be more trivial in nature as compared to others. Without that, our society will further fragment into distinct social classes who only care about themselves."
See where u belong To. Don't be surprised 200k is in 95 percentile
Single income,
2 kids,
No Car,
Stay at Condo,
is higher than 80.1% of all resident taxpayers.
No complain to Government
I do not know what to say if people with 160k household income (is higher than 89.2% of all resident taxpayers) is consider middle class
In summary, no matter whether you look up or down, there are always those who earn more or less than you.
What does it mean to be of the 80th or 90th percentile? Or the 95th percentile?
More important is to tailor a lifestyle that is compatible with affordability and preference.
In summary, no matter whether you look up or down, there are always those who earn more or less than you.
More important is to tailor a lifestyle that is compatible with affordability and preference.
Agree. Live with the affordability and preference.
Agree. Live with the affordability and preference.
And contentment...
See where u belong To. Don't be surprised 200k is in 95 percentile
No lah according to the Loony Bear 160K is middle income leh. very cham one leh. so many thing to pay for. I also below the middle income very cham one leh. have 4 property all not assets coz in singapore LH99 , LH999 and HDB according the loony bear are not assets. and some more I don't own them!! the bank own them I have to pay loan with the rental i collect. !! so cham leh rental take liao never go into my pocket go to the bank so basically the bank earn the tenant stay for free and I get fleeced to own worthless asset leh.. and left hand right hand nothing go to me. So poor thing leh. my car cost $$$ leh. not free . how come no free car? My kids have to go tuition how come no benefit give free tuition leh. Not to mention I MUST PAY FOR MY HOLIDAY!!! WTF.. how can we be paying for my holiday right??? HDB rented out some more to pay the bank land for my current condo.. WHY LIKE TAT!! WHY not government make my condo cheap cheap so I can collect the rental from my HDB go my pocket leh.. SO CHAM LEH LOW MIDDLE CLASS EARN LESS THATN 160K OWN 4 Property with a CAR and must pay for everything!! singapore so expensive leh my life here are suffering...
Tats the FART UP LOGIC WE HAVE FROM THE LOONY BEAR!!! LIFE SUCKS HERE COZ I CANT GET EVERY LUXURY IN LIFE SEREVED TO ME ON SILVER PLATTER!! SHOULD TAX THE OTEHER RICHER PEOPLE SO I CAN HAVE MORE BENEFITS LEH!! BLAH BALH BLAH
I CALL THE BEAR SELECTIVE BULLSHIT!!!!!
See where u belong To. Don't be surprised 200k is in 95 percentile
i think according to the crappy bear 200K is just about middle class just make it.. neck about the water folks.. I think the 95% is 95% just make it.. is it ;)
It's quite apparent that Teddy is just taking the highest income level and lowest income level and finding a figure somewhat in the middle between those figures without taking the actual population percentage into consideration which in itself isn't entirely wrong. I often wonder if my personal income now is say 5K a month? - It will be a very tight stretch to keep up with the standard of living in SG.
and ya, I'm personally amazed with folks who earn lesser but have many assets. I guess that comes with a lot of prudent spending and sounds investments during the property boom days or some people got property inheritance from older generations. Higher income owners may not necessary have that much after all.
he talk cock prata king lah. u tell him something with statics he say its all lies. only his made up statistics are true. 160K is middle class he say. when shown the censors and the GDP per capital he say those are lies.. then he flip prata change topic to distract people from his bull.
minority,
Don't lie lah.......
Who said Singapore is 1 of the highest per capita income in the world in line with developed countries?
But why you don't tell us that the same publication also say Singapore has 1 of the highest RICH-POOR gap in the world that is OUT-OF-LINE with many developed countries in the world?
Well not I say 1. so don't talk cock lah!
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/s’pore-is-now-richest-in-the-world.html
"Singapore topped the charts for highest GDP per capita in 2010 at close to SGD $70,000 (USD $56,532), according to a study.
In the Wealth Report 2012 published by Knight Frank and Citi Private Bank, Singapore is also expected to continue to be the global leader in 2050.
GDP per capita refers to the total output of a country divided by the population.
Trailing closely behind Singapore is Norway at about SGD $63,000 (USD $51,226), then the U.S. at about SGD $56,200 (USD $45,511), followed by Hong Kong at almost SGD $56,000 (USD $45,301).
The report also forecasts that Singapore’s GDP per capita will more than double to about SGD $170,000 (USD $137,710)."
minority,
Papers say you believe? Roy Ngerng and some other people on internet also said PM Lee misappropriated CPF money, so you will believe?!
What is the difference between you saying Najib took 1MDB money and Roy Ngerng saying PM Lee misappropriate CPF money? Same right?! No evidence, quote other people say only!
So far, all those so-called documents still have not been authenticated to be genuine, and not confirmed by Malaysia Police and Malaysia's Attorney General. Some people have also questioned about them and that even the documents provider Justo said they have been tempered with!
So, most important thing is: when you made the statement that Najib took the money, are you in possession of solid and concrete and substantiated evidence that you are sure are authentic and have not been tampered with?
minority,
stop beating around the bush lah, we know your tactic!
And despite you vehemently saying that the picture posted by Amos Yee is obscene, you still cannot tell us how exactly that picture is obscene, as compared to MediaCorp's rape scenes and another picture similar to what Amos Yee posted on the internet. Strange, that picture why AG didn't take action because if the picture Amos Yee posted is obscene, that picture is also obscene right (since it has LKY's face in it)?
minority, you didn't do your job and make police report on that picture is it?????? :scared-3:
Wow, interesting, people still know how much Malaysia's PM and DPM spend on electricity, on prime minister's residence etc.
By the way, do you know how much Singapore spend on Istana used by the President and Prime Minister?
Do you know have much money is being managed by GIC and their assets and market values over the years?
Do you know have much money is being managed by Temasek and their assets and market values over the years?
Do you know have much money is being managed by MAS and their assets and market values over the years?
In the past, the Singapore government denied that CPF money has been used by GIC and Temasek for investments, But now they confirmed that CPF money has been taken by GIC and Temasek to invest. So do you know how much CPF money has been taken by GIC and Temasek to invest?
As USUAL FLIP PRATA. I ASK YOU CAN YOU TELL ME HOW NAJIB EARN 200K RM per year can afford all this lavishness . you go off tangent and flip the prata to change topic? COZ YOU DONT HAVE ANSWER. YOU KNOW I KNOW 700M PUBLIC FUNDS DEPOSITED INTO HIS OWN ACCT WHICH HE NEVER DENY!!! IS WRONG!! SO DONT COME TALK COCK SING COCK SONG WHEN CANNOT EXPLAIN COME UP WITH A BUNCH OF BULL SHIT.
HOW MUCH TO POWER NAJIB ACCOM ? HOW MUCH IS NAJIB ELECTRICAL BILL??? 3.5M!! OK U COCKANADEN .
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/pm-and-deputys-official-homes-spent-rm3.5-million-on-water-and-electricity
PLS ANSWER MY QUESTION AND DONT DOGE !!! WHY CAN NAJIB AFFORD THESE IF HIS PAY IS 200K pm!!!!
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