Who is responsible?

[irisng]

If there is a water leaking from the conceal pipe from the upper level master-bedroom toilet (eg 14th floor) and seep through the wall to 13th, 12th, 11th & 10th level, this seepage damages all these levels master bedroom toilet false ceiling. Who should be responsible for these damages?

[zeamybro]

Depends on the building structure and to whom does this pipe belong to...

I have this scenario that the unit below me (15th floor) was experiencing a leak from the roof of the bathroom. MCST said I (16th floor) have to pay for the repairs as that leaking pipe belongs to my unit. I can actually bochap them since the leak didnt affect me but as neighbours not v nice la.

[irisng]

Depends on the building structure and to whom does this pipe belong to...

I have this scenario that the unit below me (15th floor) was experiencing a leak from the roof of the bathroom. MCST said I (16th floor) have to pay for the repairs as that leaking pipe belongs to my unit. I can actually bochap them since the leak didnt affect me but as neighbours not v nice la.

Thanks. Yours only involve 1 level? The case that I mentioned involved 4 levels. The leaking pipe comes from 14th floor. The management wants the 11th floor to pay for the 10th floor, not logic right because 11th floor is not the cause.

[DC33_2008]

The source of the water leak has to be fixed but the route of leakage between each floor has got to be fixed too. Is it due to poor workmanship? I have once trying to be a detective myself on a water leak issue when the person below my unit complain of water mark in their bathroom toilet. I got down with the Managing Agent technician and open the access panel of the false ceiling. We found that the leak comes from the connection around the water heater. Do a thorough investigation and do not just accept expert's advice.
Thanks. Yours only involve 1 level? The case that I mentioned involved 4 levels. The leaking pipe comes from 14th floor. The management wants the 11th floor to pay for the 10th floor, not logic right because 11th floor is not the cause.

[irisng]

The source of the water leak has to be fixed but the route of leakage between each floor has got to be fixed too. Is it due to poor workmanship? I have once trying to be a detective myself on a water leak issue when the person below my unit complain of water mark in their bathroom toilet. I got down with the Managing Agent technician and open the access panel of the false ceiling. We found that the leak comes from the connection around the water heater. Do a thorough investigation and do not just accept expert's advice.

Thanks. After months of investigations, finally found that the leak came from the 14th floor and seep through the walls of the affected unit. 14th floor had already got it fixed and now no more water seepage, but affected units false ceiling in the master toilet were badly damaged. I think is due to the poor workmanship or materials used during the construction of the building that causes such a leakage, so who should be responsible for all the affected units? Should it be 14th floor alone or one floor claim after another eg 10th floor claim against 11th floor and 11th floor claim against 12th floor and so on but the problem is, the cause does not come from all these affected levels, the cause came from 14th floor.

At last I'm able to post. I had hard time trying to post for the past few days.:mad:

[hopeful]

Thanks. After months of investigations, finally found that the leak came from the 14th floor and seep through the walls of the affected unit. 14th floor had already got it fixed and now no more water seepage, but affected units false ceiling in the master toilet were badly damaged. I think is due to the poor workmanship or materials used during the construction of the building that causes such a leakage, so who should be responsible for all the affected units? Should it be 14th floor alone or one floor claim after another eg 10th floor claim against 11th floor and 11th floor claim against 12th floor and so on but the problem is, the cause does not come from all these affected levels, the cause came from 14th floor.

At last I'm able to post. I had hard time trying to post for the past few days.:mad:

Given that it takes months of investigations, it is most likely a complex matter and all parties have taken reasonable care and skill in engaging contractors to identify and rectify the fault. Once reasonable care and skill has been exercised to employ contractors, it is no longer the owner(s) fault.
Each owner will have to bear their own cost.

However if a unit owner engage an un-licensed contractor/plumber, then that unit owner will have to pay for the unit below.
So people, please engage licensed contractor/plumber/electrician to show that you have taken reasonable care and skill.

[irisng]

Given that it takes months of investigations, it is most likely a complex matter and all parties have taken reasonable care and skill in engaging contractors to identify and rectify the fault. Once reasonable care and skill has been exercised to employ contractors, it is no longer the owner(s) fault.
Each owner will have to bear their own cost.

However if a unit owner engage an un-licensed contractor/plumber, then that unit owner will have to pay for the unit below.
So people, please engage licensed contractor/plumber/electrician to show that you have taken reasonable care and skill.

Thanks. The contractors were engaged by the management to check on all the affected units, at last found that the leak came from the 14th floor master bedroom piping.

[hopeful]

Thanks. The contractors were engaged by the management to check on all the affected units, at last found that the leak came from the 14th floor master bedroom piping.

err..need to say thanks. I am just pulling your legs with regards to the following article
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/23845-Condo-owners-sue-for-32m-defendants-try-to-shift-blame?p=508122#post508122

"Developer Mer Vue Developments, a subsidiary of Wheelock Properties; main contractor Tiong Aik Construction; and RSP Architects Planners & Engineers are arguing that they had taken care to engage competent independent contractors to carry out the works, and so are not responsible for any faults."

so as long as you take reasonably care to hire licensed electrician, plumber, contractor, rest assured that you are not responsible for any faults.
How to prove reasonably care?
1) ask for minimal 3 quotations from licensed professionals
2) ask for their referrals, work experience and keep copies
3) ask for their licenses and keep copies
4) keep records of all emails etc.

For example, if you renovate your unit and it leaks to the lower unit, according to the strata title act regarding interfloor leak, you have to bear the cost, link is below. (i dont bluff you)
http://www.bca.gov.sg/BMSM/bmsm_faqs.html#general_q4
but if above floor unit owner can proof that he has taken reasonable care, he is free from liability as per Court of Appeal ruling in 2005.
Who is more powerful?
Court of Appeal > BMSM (this one i am not pulling your leg)

[irisng]

err..need to say thanks. I am just pulling your legs with regards to the following article
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/23845-Condo-owners-sue-for-32m-defendants-try-to-shift-blame?p=508122#post508122

"Developer Mer Vue Developments, a subsidiary of Wheelock Properties; main contractor Tiong Aik Construction; and RSP Architects Planners & Engineers are arguing that they had taken care to engage competent independent contractors to carry out the works, and so are not responsible for any faults."

so as long as you take reasonably care to hire licensed electrician, plumber, contractor, rest assured that you are not responsible for any faults.
How to prove reasonably care?
1) ask for minimal 3 quotations from licensed professionals
2) ask for their referrals, work experience and keep copies
3) ask for their licenses and keep copies
4) keep records of all emails etc.

For example, if you renovate your unit and it leaks to the lower unit, according to the strata title act regarding interfloor leak, you have to bear the cost, link is below. (i dont bluff you)
http://www.bca.gov.sg/BMSM/bmsm_faqs.html#general_q4
but if above floor unit owner can proof that he has taken reasonable care, he is free from liability as per Court of Appeal ruling in 2005.
Who is more powerful?
Court of Appeal > BMSM (this one i am not pulling your leg)

Anyway still have to thank you for extracting out the articles for me as a reference. I would think that since the cause came from 14th floor, there is no reason why the floor above each other has to pay for other people damages that is not caused by them (eg 13th floor has to pay for 12th floor, 12th floor pay for 11th floor and so on).

[patricia]

Anyway still have to thank you for extracting out the articles for me as a reference. I would think that since the cause came from 14th floor, there is no reason why the floor above each other has to pay for other people damages that is not caused by them (eg 13th floor has to pay for 12th floor, 12th floor pay for 11th floor and so on).
So, what is the plan. Completely construct a new drainage pipe network OR try to repair existing pipe network ( can be quite a complicated task)?

[irisng]

So, what is the plan. Completely construct a new drainage pipe network OR try to repair existing pipe network ( can be quite a complicated task)?

I heard that the contractor by-pass the pipe leakage and do a resurfacing piping.

[irisng]

I don't think that it was be a complicated task because it involved only 1 master bedroom toilet of the source unit. The contractor cut the pipe before the leak portion, then by-pass the leak portion and run a surface pipe at the same master bedroom toilet. They did a test before they confirmed the actual cause. They turned off the water supply to the source master bedroom toilet and water stopped leaking down to the below affected units (had checked with the owners of the affected units), then they turned on again and the water started to leak again. This testing method was suggested by one of the owners.