View Full Version : Should HDB Flats Be Allowed To Be Used As Investment?
http://dollarsandsense.sg/should-hdb-flats-be-allowed-to-be-used-as-investment/
By Dinesh Dayani
Published on 20 Jun, 2015
DollarsAndSense looks at how public housing flats became investment tools for the rich, and whether this is equitable considering affordability of home is something Singaporeans struggle with.
It may be a little idealistic, but when someone mentions public housing, you expect it to be affordable for the people who do not earn enough. However, in Singapore, things are a little different, with about 80% of our population living in these flats. It has gradually become homes not just for the poor, or even the middle-income families, but also for the wealthier people in our population.
This is not a problem by itself. However, it starts becoming a problem when HDB flats become investments for richer families. This seems to go against the fabric of what these houses were made for – affordable homes of quality and value, which by the way, is HDB’s mission.
So how did HDB flats became an investment for richer families?
A brief history
Prior to 1989 – HDB owners had to sell off their flats if they wanted to buy private properties.
The logic behind this seems fair, as families who needed an affordable housing to live in should not be rich enough to afford private properties. This rule applied to all.
In 1989 – HDB owners who had bought their flats on the resale market were allowed to invest in private properties provided they still lived in their HDB flats. Private property owners were also allowed to buy a resale HDB flat, provided they lived in the flat subsequently.
This also seems fair. As people got richer, the government started allowing them to invest in private properties, which could be used to generate passive income, or for capital appreciation.
But this left out people who bought their flats directly from HDB.
In 1991 – Then Minister of State for National Development Lim Hng Kiang said those who bought flats directly from HDB could also invest in private properties, after a certain period, provided they still lived in their HDB flats.
This rule plug in the gap created by the earlier regulation and made the whole scene a fair one. With everyone able to buy both HDB flats and private properties, no one is left out. Of course, the caveat is that they still had to live in HDB flats, as private properties were for investment purposes only.
In 2003 – For years, this system worked well and fairly. Until 2003, the year in which HDB change its regulation to allow owners who had lived in their HDB flats for 15 years to rent out their entire flats, and presumably live in private properties. Previously, there were strict restrictions for renting out entire HDB flats.
This seems okay. It allowed families to stay in private properties that they already own without having to sell off their HDB flats. This apply to all families.
In 2010 – Amid a public housing shortage, which may or may not have been brought about by rich families choosing to rent out their flats and live in private properties, or by the steep increase in population due to the influx of foreign talents, the government ruled that private property owners now have to sell private units before buying HDB flats. However, if you already own a HDB flat and wanted to buy a private property, this ruling does not apply.
This made the scenario that Singaporeans faced extremely unfair since it only applies if you have a private property before buying a HDB but not the other way around.
That means that while HDB owners can upgrade themselves by buying and living in a private property while renting out their HDB flats, people who needed passive income from their private properties did not have the same option. This could of course include retirees, who previously had the option to buy a smaller HDB flat while renting out their private apartments for rental income.
After 2010 – Since then, there have been numerous changes to basically the same policies involving Additional Buyer’s Stand Duty (ABSD), Seller’s Stamp Duty (SSD) and the Loan-To-Value (LTV) to curb speculation.
In a parting thought, we just want to touch on the fact that we are not a welfare state and hence, it is important to ensure that our citizens are able to find ways to sustain themselves after retiring. Living off the passive income generated by owning multiple properties (including HDB flats) is one such way employed by retirees. However, it seems like the government, within their changed regulation imposed in 2010, took away that option from a signficant group of Singaporeans, forcing them to dispose their apartments if they wanted a HDB flat to live in.
Being the 3rd richest country in terms of GDP per capita, this nation has the capacity to build more than enough homes for prices to be affordable for the masses, there is no need to taper HDB flats supply, which will only be welcome news for property developers and owners.
Here’s why there is no need to taper, yet.
Year Total Population (‘000) Increase in population (‘000) HDB Flat Supply (estimated)(‘000)
2008 4,839.4 250.8 8.1
2009 4,987.6 148.2 13.5
2010 5,076.7 89.2 17.7
2011 5,183.7 107.0 25.0
2012 5,312.4 128.7 27.0
2013 5,399.2 86.7 25.1
2014 5,469.7 70.6 24.3
Total 881.3 140.7
(Source: Singstat and HDB Press Release)
Our total population has increased 881,300 since 2008. If we assume 80% will continue to live in HDB flats, that is 705,040 more people who require such accommodation. At the same time, HDB flat supply has only risen by 140,700 units. If we assume there will be 3.5 persons per unit, we require 201,440 HDB flats. So we are already behind the curve, and do not need to taper until there is some excess for younger people to become more confident to start having families, and to get flats at prices which are attractive to do so.
DollarsAndSense.sg is a website that aims to provide interesting, bite-sized financial articles which is relevant to the average Singaporean.
http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2013/07/understanding-how-hdb-works-with-trepidation/
Subletting rules for these categories of flat buyers will also be relaxed. HDB will allow them to sublet their entire flat if they have occupied them for 10 years or more. With these changes, HDB resale flats bought without any CPF Housing Grant and without any loan from HDB will be treated more like private properties.
HDB relaxes rules to allow owners to sublet entire flat
The rule will benefit some 645,000 HDB flat owners if they have met the minimum occupation period.
By Irene Ngoo
Mar 3, 2007
Housing Board flat owners can now sublet their whole flats after they have occupied them for the minimum period.
National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan announced this in Parliament today, saying that the HDB recognises that an HDB flat is the single most valuable asset for many Singaporeans, and has a value that can be unlocked to provide some supplementary income for flat owners.
The relaxed rule will benefit some 645,000 HDB flat owners who can immediately sublet their flats if they have lived in them for three or five years, depending on whether the flat had been purchased with a housing subsidy.
The HDB has gradually relaxed its policy on the subletting of whole flats over the years since 2003. The policy was last relaxed in March 2005 when the minimum occupation period (MOP) for subletting was further reduced to 10 years for lessees with an outstanding HDB loan, and 5 years for all other lessees.
Under the latest relaxed rules, the revised MOP is:
-5 years for owners of subsidised flats, which are purchased directly from HDB or from the open market with a CPF Housing Grant; and
-3 years for owners of non-subsidised flats, which are bought from the open market without a CPF Housing Grant.
"This reduction of the MOP for subletting will allow flat owners greater flexibility to monetise their flats when it is needed, for example, . during retirement or times of financial difficulty," said an HDB statement today.
"It will also enlarge the rental market for HDB flats and offer more rental housing options for those who are not yet ready to buy a property."
Flat owners must seek HDB's prior approval before they sublet their flats, and will have to comply with HDB's subletting rules and conditions.
They can submit their applications online at HDB's InfoWeb at www.hdb.gov.sg.
HDB will conduct half-yearly flat inspections for approved subletting cases and work closely with the community to gather feedback on nuisance created by subtenants. In the event that subtenants disrupt the good environment and ambience of the public housing estates, HDB may revoke the subletting approval and the flat owner will be required to terminate the tenancy.
For further information or enquiries, the public can contact the HDB Branch Office Service Line at 1800 2255432
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php/765-HDB-relaxes-rules-to-allow-owners-to-sublet-entire-flat
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YlvEjlIelzk/Rr7xe3WF_9I/AAAAAAAAAy8/eIi52joe8Rk/s1600/statistics-+median+subletting+rents+by+town+and+flat+type-1.jpg
http://propertyhighlights.blogspot.fr/2007/08/hdb-subletting-market-statistics.html
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10955145_10205389688754600_6807330488507973756_n.jpg?oh=39633cd5a84b5a3d66daf1e1bb1483df&oe=5628C599
Arcachon, good, you have summarised all. Thanks.
Yup during that time, we were caught in between. We were not allowed to rent out our HDB if we wanted to buy a private property, in the end we bought a EC and sold away our HDB, and now we had a EC (already >16 yrs) but not allowed to buy a HDB flat. We are getting old, planning to stay in HDB and rent out our EC to earn some extra income for our retired age as we are going to retire soon. This income will also help to cover the management fund of the EC. But now, we are "up and down", don't know what we do, continue staying in the EC or sell the EC and buy the HDB and depend on govt to feed us when our money runs out, hahaha.
It is actually not fair why those with HDB flat can buy private property and those already have private property, cannot buy HDB, no logic leh. Since those with HDB flat still can afford to buy private property, this shows that they are also well off, right?
Just look at how the computation of MediLife for those staying in Private Property. It is certainly disadvantaged those who are staying with their retired parents in private property. It is not encouraging 3-generation living. Garment needs to really review their policies. They have done something right for Pioneer Gen but how about those retirees who are non Pioneer Gen staying with children in private property. With more than 85% staying or owning a HDB flat, it has become a prime card for political gain as you can see housing policy changes over the years. It can be a double-edged sword if use wrongly as it creates other social problems which is already happening. More effort is needed to fire-fight them. It is really ironical.
Arcachon, good, you have summarised all. Thanks.
Yup during that time, we were caught in between. We were not allowed to rent out our HDB if we wanted to buy a private property, in the end we bought a EC and sold away our HDB, and now we had a EC (already >16 yrs) but not allowed to buy a HDB flat. We are getting old, planning to stay in HDB and rent out our EC to earn some extra income for our retired age as we are going to retire soon. This income will also help to cover the management fund of the EC. But now, we are "up and down", don't know what we do, continue staying in the EC or sell the EC and buy the HDB and depend on govt to feed us when our money runs out, hahaha.
It is actually not fair why those with HDB flat can buy private property and those already have private property, cannot buy HDB, no logic leh. Since those with HDB flat still can afford to buy private property, this shows that they are also well off, right?
Any policy affecting HDB which probably affect 85% is a game changer for HDB, EC and OCR (maybe even RCR). Difficult sometimes to do the equitable thing as market conditions does not favour.
Just wundering if they did not implement TDSR but took the opportunity to disallow at that juncture HDB flats to be used as investment and to be rented out completely, how different would the property market be now? :beats-me-man::beats-me-man: just wundering
Just look at how the computation of MediLife for those staying in Private Property. It is certainly disadvantaged those who are staying with their retired parents in private property. It is not encouraging 3-generation living. Garment needs to really review their policies. They have done something right for Pioneer Gen but how about those retirees who are non Pioneer Gen staying with children in private property. With more than 85% staying or owning a HDB flat, it has become a prime card for political gain as you can see housing policy changes over the years. It can be a double-edged sword if use wrongly as it creates other social problems which is already happening. More effort is needed to fire-fight them. It is really ironical.
Any policy affecting HDB which probably affect 85% is a game changer for HDB, EC and OCR (maybe even RCR). Difficult sometimes to do the equitable thing as market conditions does not favour.
Just wundering if they did not implement TDSR but took the opportunity to disallow at that juncture HDB flats to be used as investment and to be rented out completely, how different would the property market be now? :beats-me-man::beats-me-man: just wundering
I have asked that question before. According to some replies in this forum, the current condo number is insufficient to deal with that huge number of PRs and expats (the entry level type) suddenly requiring private housing. Their cost of living will spike through their budgets.
Another issue is that retirees already dependent on rental income will suffer tremendously. Those who have projected HDB rental into their other investments will also be affected heavily. Fair in some ways but also unfair to them to suddenly change the game so much. HDB prices will plummet as well with a good proportion of flats made empty, and there will be huge resource wastage and underutilisation.
Know of someone in the pioneer gen who has seen his flat dropping in rent and could not find a tenant for almost 6 months. It is not a good sign for policy maker.
I have asked that question before. According to some replies in this forum, the current condo number is insufficient to deal with that huge number of PRs and expats (the entry level type) suddenly requiring private housing. Their cost of living will spike through their budgets.
Another issue is that retirees already dependent on rental income will suffer tremendously. Those who have projected HDB rental into their other investments will also be affected heavily. Fair in some ways but also unfair to them to suddenly change the game so much. HDB prices will plummet as well with a good proportion of flats made empty, and there will be huge resource wastage and underutilisation.
Flow with the current, that is what I can say. Swimming against the current take more effort, adjust your investment according to what the government want.
Flow with the current, that is what I can say. Swimming against the current take more effort, adjust your investment according to what the government want.
If ur unit is in a popular enclave, u may find a tenant only to be disappointed u can't lease out.
HDB have quota % for both Neighbourhood enclave & blocks.
Lastly they had restricted more Job sectors' workers from renting HDBs.
Won't be surprise HDB gets more stringent in Future.
Don't worry with too many if, when you do property investment the more important to consider is can or not.
If you think of all the if, than do nothing also got a lot of if.
Since 1988, my question is always can or not, Can go ahead and buy forget about the if.
The only way the government can give you money is through HDB (property), they can also top up your CPF but that is quite limited.
Buy 5 room HDB in 1995 for SGD 250,000 sell now SGD 640,000. Calculate how much the government give you.
Buy 2 Bedroom PC at SGD 535,000 in Jun 2006 sell now SGD 1,550,000.
All the Government in the World is printing money, how can they help you.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapore/money-supply-m1
Show me a chart where money supply is going the other direction.
challenger
22-06-15, 23:25
If ur unit is in a popular enclave, u may find a tenant only to be disappointed u can't lease out.
HDB have quota % for both Neighbourhood enclave & blocks.
Lastly they had restricted more Job sectors' workers from renting HDBs.
Won't be surprise HDB gets more stringent in Future.
If cannot rent to foreigners, rent to Singaporeans then. Can also rent to Malaysians. It is still decent income.
If don't allow rental of HDB, where are all the foreigners going to stay? East Coast Park? Rental of private property will sky-rocket.
I think it is ok if people have 1 HDB and 1 private property for some income. If a person have 2 private properties, then I guess it is time the HDB is let go. Younger generation also want to move near city area, so give them a chance.
Don't worry with too many if, when you do property investment the more important to consider is can or not.
If you think of all the if, than do nothing also got a lot of if.
Since 1988, my question is always can or not, Can go ahead and buy forget about the if.
The only way the government can give you money is through HDB (property), they can also top up your CPF but that is quite limited.
Govt also give cash on GST rebates etc but EC and private ppty owners including their family members don't get it except top up their medisave. Is it that these people staying in EC and private ppty don't need to buy things or don't need to pay GST for their purchases? No right, everybody paid GST for the purchases. If said EC and private ppty have money because they can afford to stay in private ppty, then how about those with HDB address and still have one or few private ppty, do they still get all these rebates or PUB subsidies from the govt?
When govt first implemented giving GST rebates, my friend told me that her aged mother didn't get a single cents because she stayed with her in a pte condo. My children also asked me why her friend got the rebates and she didn't have. Ya, why? The house belong to their parents, why the children or the aged mother don't get the rebates just because they stayed with them in pte ppty?
That is the disparity you in the policy. Something is really wrong and ignore by our policy makers.
Govt also give cash on GST rebates etc but EC and private ppty owners including their family members don't get it except top up their medisave. Is it that these people staying in EC and private ppty don't need to buy things or don't need to pay GST for their purchases? No right, everybody paid GST for the purchases. If said EC and private ppty have money because they can afford to stay in private ppty, then how about those with HDB address and still have one or few private ppty, do they still get all these rebates or PUB subsidies from the govt?
When govt first implemented giving GST rebates, my friend told me that her aged mother didn't get a single cents because she stayed with her in a pte condo. My children also asked me why her friend got the rebates and she didn't have. Ya, why? The house belong to their parents, why the children or the aged mother don't get the rebates just because they stayed with them in pte ppty?
Govt also give cash on GST rebates etc but EC and private ppty owners including their family members don't get it except top up their medisave. Is it that these people staying in EC and private ppty don't need to buy things or don't need to pay GST for their purchases? No right, everybody paid GST for the purchases. If said EC and private ppty have money because they can afford to stay in private ppty, then how about those with HDB address and still have one or few private ppty, do they still get all these rebates or PUB subsidies from the govt?
When govt first implemented giving GST rebates, my friend told me that her aged mother didn't get a single cents because she stayed with her in a pte condo. My children also asked me why her friend got the rebates and she didn't have. Ya, why? The house belong to their parents, why the children or the aged mother don't get the rebates just because they stayed with them in pte ppty?
[DC33_2008]That is the disparity you in the policy. Something is really wrong and ignore by our policy makers.[DC33_2008]
There has already been a huge policy change to accommodate these disparities.
The problem lies with our bases for comparison. We always compare to people who seem to be having it easier, not quite aware that they also compare backwards to you and think you have it easier.
Iris has compared with those who bought HDBs in her time and retained HDBs till today. What has been left out in the comparison was her upgrading to (first hand?) ECs at yesterday's prices, which were very very enviable prices for those aiming to get their first houses of today.
Also, if we compare to those who only bought HDB and those who only bought ECs at yesterday's prices, how much has each class gained over the time period in comparison?
Now if we compare with those who bought HDB yesterday and continued to buy another private property while continuing to live in HDB, let us be reminded that they also took certain risks and probably had to sacrifice certain aspects of lifestyle (at least no facilities and no prestige factor) when taking up that option. In terms of policy angle, taxes and benefits have to be geared toward lifestyle and "consumption", much like how the car taxes mainly target transport "consumption". Those who took up this option never consumed the lifestyle but accorded it fully as an investment option, and accordingly, it should be taxed as an investment. Kindly be reminded that they pay much higher property taxes and income taxes as the private property is regarded as an investment property. They could also save up this amount and invest in any other investment instrument (note: no consumption).
Next, about the parents living with their children in ECs... Do the parents have existing HDB? What did they do with the HDB? If they did not buy any HDB, what do they do with the spare cash from not buying any HDB? It is already massively great fortune that children have chosen to live with them, and they get to enjoy the facilities and prestige of a private property as well. Surely they are much much better off than those in rental flats or are struggling with their first HDB mortage?
Lastly, the children. We need to remind them how fortunate they are to live in private property (consumption and prestige) at this juncture. If they wish to venture out, a HDB will be waiting for them and they can aim for that GST incentive anytime they are ready.
HDB prices have risen very much to reflect the potential for investment at a later stage. It takes much longer to clear the mortgage as compared to earlier years. If the youngsters of today compare with private property owners, or even HDB owners who paid yesterday's prices, guess how they would feel?
challenger
23-06-15, 20:01
That is the disparity you in the policy. Something is really wrong and ignore by our policy makers.
In policy matters, I think it is very difficult to be 100% fair. There are many special cases. Of course, if the situation are not special, but common, then measures should be taken to address them over time. I don't have the statistics so cannot say too much. But I do agree with you that it does not seem fair. Multiple property owners getting GST rebate but people with no property but staying in condo get nothing.
As for the argument of staying with parents in private property mean prestigious, I have to disagree. Some private properties are run down, they may be apartments without condo facilities. What prestige? My friend with huge family used to stay in terrace house. Super cramp. Some HDB cost $1 million dollars leh. Should families staying there be given GST rebates? We just have to accept distribution cannot be perfectly fair. In the meantime, work towards financial independence. Don't depend on the misery handout lah.
If really really cannot tahan, tell your MP to raise in parliament lor. Government is slowly changing, they are more receptive to our suggestions now. After noise very loud, DBSS suspended, no more luxury EC penthouse.
I agree about resale HDB very expensive now. Prices can drop some more. Not fair to those starting family.
In policy matters, I think it is very difficult to be 100% fair. There are many special cases. Of course, if the situation are not special, but common, then measures should be taken to address them over time. I don't have the statistics so cannot say too much. But I do agree with you that it does not seem fair. Multiple property owners getting GST rebate but people with no property but staying in condo get nothing.
As for the argument of staying with parents in private property mean prestigious, I have to disagree. Some private properties are run down, they may be apartments without condo facilities. What prestige? My friend with huge family used to stay in terrace house. Super cramp. Some HDB cost $1 million dollars leh. Should families staying there be given GST rebates? We just have to accept distribution cannot be perfectly fair. In the meantime, work towards financial independence. Don't depend on the misery handout lah.
If really really cannot tahan, tell your MP to raise in parliament lor. Government is slowly changing, they are more receptive to our suggestions now. After noise very loud, DBSS suspended, no more luxury EC penthouse.
I agree about resale HDB very expensive now. Prices can drop some more. Not fair to those starting family.
Just a simple example to illustrate the clear difference between consumption of public and private goods.
The price of taking a brand new bus will never be higher than that of driving an old, run down car. Even if you own a car and take public transport, in terms of usage, you will only be charged the price of the public good. You can rent out your car and get the earnings to recover the loan or even earn income, not a problem as it is regarded as an investment. Can you take back the car anytime to drive? Yes.
The Govt has this scheme of annual valuation of home tied to the incentive one gets (sort of regardless of HDB or private). I presume highly prized HDB will have high annual valuation comparable to some private property. In that sense the policy has a good degree of compromise already.
You can of course find exceptions to find exceptional cases. But most cases are not like that.
Next, about the parents living with their children in ECs... Do the parents have existing HDB? What did they do with the HDB? If they did not buy any HDB, what do they do with the spare cash from not buying any HDB? It is already massively great fortune that children have chosen to live with them, and they get to enjoy the facilities and prestige of a private property as well. Surely they are much much better off than those in rental flats or are struggling with their first HDB mortage?
Before my friend got married, they (5 people-3 daughter including herself + parents) rented a 2 room HDB flat from the govt. After all got married and her father passed away, left her mother staying in the 2 room HDB flat. So my friend asked her mother to stay with her in a private condo and help to look after her children. Her mother did not change the HDB address but in the end, HDB took back the flat, not very sure about the actual reason but I heard that is because 1 person cannot stay in "so big" flat (1 room 1 hall). BTW my friend's mother has not been working since young and where she got money. She has to depend on her daughter for living.
HDB prices have risen very much to reflect the potential for investment at a later stage. It takes much longer to clear the mortgage as compared to earlier years. If the youngsters of today compare with private property owners, or even HDB owners who paid yesterday's prices, guess how they would feel?
How about those who bought the HDB and private ppty in earlier's prices, isn't the prices were so much better than today's prices and yet these group of people with HDB address still receive the rebates or subsidies from the govt, so why EC and private ppty owners especially their parents and qualified children never get it.
I find it weird when govt give rebates and subsidies based on houses you live in, particularly if you don't own them or if you live in HDB flats but driving jaguars and Mercedes E class or higher and/or renting out other private properties to collect rental..............
Something is really wrong right?
Govt also give cash on GST rebates etc but EC and private ppty owners including their family members don't get it except top up their medisave. Is it that these people staying in EC and private ppty don't need to buy things or don't need to pay GST for their purchases? No right, everybody paid GST for the purchases. If said EC and private ppty have money because they can afford to stay in private ppty, then how about those with HDB address and still have one or few private ppty, do they still get all these rebates or PUB subsidies from the govt?
When govt first implemented giving GST rebates, my friend told me that her aged mother didn't get a single cents because she stayed with her in a pte condo. My children also asked me why her friend got the rebates and she didn't have. Ya, why? The house belong to their parents, why the children or the aged mother don't get the rebates just because they stayed with them in pte ppty?
Before my friend got married, they (5 people-3 daughter including herself + parents) rented a 2 room HDB flat from the govt. After all got married and her father passed away, left her mother staying in the 2 room HDB flat. So my friend asked her mother to stay with her in a private condo and help to look after her children. Her mother did not change the HDB address but in the end, HDB took back the flat, not very sure about the actual reason but I heard that is because 1 person cannot stay in "so big" flat (1 room 1 hall). BTW my friend's mother has not been working since young and where she got money. She has to depend on her daughter for living.
How about those who bought the HDB and private ppty in earlier's prices, isn't the prices were so much better than today's prices and yet these group of people with HDB address still receive the rebates or subsidies from the govt, so why EC and private ppty owners especially their parents and qualified children never get it.
Firstly, let's assume your position that your friend's mother is really deserving of the rebates. She probably represents a very small minority of condo dwellers. A substantial number in her position (living wth children in private condo) have probably retired with substantial savings and investments (which might include HDBs). Trying to equate her position with other HDB dwellers (in terms of receipt of rebate) will be unfair in terms of over-distribution to the other 95% of private property dwellers as well as under-distribution to 95% of the HDB dwellers (the other 5% of HDB dwellers being the Jaguar and Mercedes drivers of course although for some, this is actually a company transport vehicle for their bosses or bridal rental cars).
But my most sincere view is that your friend's mother is still luckier than the myriads of rental flat dwellers and those living alone who have a flat that they can't really cash out upon even if their bank account is zero. Your friend's mother was probably unlucky in the sense that rental of whole HDBs was not allowed so easily in the past, but she at least was able to sell back the HDB and get the sums paid by the Dad back. For many others, the sums are still locked up as they may have no children or their children's lifestyles might be too incompatible - no way to cash out and can only consider lease buyback. She still has many other options currently, including applying for a studio HDB apartment to live in for 5 years, and renting out subsequently (it sounds dumb but she has options which the vast majority of HDB owners doesn't have).
I still remember Teddybear's most striking view: private property owners are definitely richer than HDB owners. I would like to refine it as 95% of private property owners are richer than 95% of HDB owners. Therefore the policy stance should reflect this reality.
Now let's address the contexts of the 5% of multiple property owners. There is only 1 person I know who have gotten both HDB and private properties at yesterday's prices. Most have gotten HDB at yesterday's prices and private condo at today's prices. I presume you have no difficulty accepting those in this group who live in PC as they are not entitled to rebates, but still sore over the HDB dweller who owns PC but rents it out as investment.
The fact remains that SG should continue to attract the right kind of investments in order to grow. If a foreigner can buy a PC and totally regard it as an investment (renting it out but not living in it), why shouldn't locals be allowed to do so? The one who does so already pays 10% property tax of annual valuation plus additional annual income taxes from rental income (not inclusive of ABSD, BSD etc). The total amount paid annually is likely much more than the election tax incentive every 5 years. It just doesn't make sense to penalise this form of investment so severely when it has already been taxed so heavily. (Again: refer to consumption of public good).
If the Govt really wants to equate everything, then no man shall be born richer or poorer than another. But in reality?
Before my friend got married, they (5 people-3 daughter including herself + parents) rented a 2 room HDB flat from the govt. After all got married and her father passed away, left her mother staying in the 2 room HDB flat. So my friend asked her mother to stay with her in a private condo and help to look after her children. Her mother did not change the HDB address but in the end, HDB took back the flat, not very sure about the actual reason but I heard that is because 1 person cannot stay in "so big" flat (1 room 1 hall). BTW my friend's mother has not been working since young and where she got money. She has to depend on her daughter for living.
How about those who bought the HDB and private ppty in earlier's prices, isn't the prices were so much better than today's prices and yet these group of people with HDB address still receive the rebates or subsidies from the govt, so why EC and private ppty owners especially their parents and qualified children never get it.
1996 I pay in full SGD 65,000 to help my parent in law buy a 3 room HDB, but I told them to take a loan of 25 years and put the money in the Bank.
But my most sincere view is that your friend's mother is still luckier than the myriads of rental flat dwellers and those living alone who have a flat that they can't really cash out upon even if their bank account is zero. Your friend's mother was probably unlucky in the sense that rental of whole HDBs was not allowed so easily in the past, but she at least was able to sell back the HDB and get the sums paid by the Dad back. For many others, the sums are still locked up as they may have no children or their children's lifestyles might be too incompatible - no way to cash out and can only consider lease buyback. She still has many other options currently, including applying for a studio HDB apartment to live in for 5 years, and renting out subsequently (it sounds dumb but she has options which the vast majority of HDB owners doesn't have).
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. It is a rental flat from the HDB and not owned by them, they didn't buy it because during that time, they had no money to buy. HDB took back the 2 room flat and offered to rent her 1 room flat because she was told that 2 room flat is too big for 1 person to stay (after her husband passed away).
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. It is a rental flat from the HDB and not owned by them, they didn't buy it because during that time, they had no money to buy. HDB took back the 2 room flat and offered to rent her 1 room flat because she was told that 2 room flat is too big for 1 person to stay (after her husband passed away).
She is still very lucky. No need to pay rent or mortgage for many years. Assuming rent of $100 to 200 per month, she would have saved 5 to 6k every 5 years. I am comparing only to the solo old folks in rental flats and those who service mortgage till 0 cash every month.
Nonetheless her case might still be justified for an exception to award any incentive. Just that it must not be a rule.
1996 brought a 3 room HDB for SGD 65,000.
20 years later if sell the HDB for SGD 300,000.
My parent in law stay there for 20 years for free rental and get SGD 235,000, and get about SGD 979.16 per month for staying in the HDB.
Which government in the world give money like that.
1996 brought a 3 room HDB for SGD 65,000.
20 years later if sell the HDB for SGD 300,000.
My parent in law stay there for 20 years for free rental and get SGD 235,000, and get about SGD 979.16 per month for staying in the HDB.
Which government in the world give money like that.
Can sell good. But stay where ?
The problem is give so much still got people reject.
The more you buy the more you get, don't buy get nothing still have to pay.
Lots of people think don't buy better, not many know how much they get to lose.
Can sell good. But stay where ?
The problem is give so much still got people reject.
Buy a studio and cash out SGD 200,000.
1996 brought a 3 room HDB for SGD 65,000.
20 years later if sell the HDB for SGD 300,000.
My parent in law stay there for 20 years for free rental and get SGD 235,000, and get about SGD 979.16 per month for staying in the HDB.
Which government in the world give money like that.
Is it that this forum was under maintenance for the past few days?
How come free rental and still can get S$235,000? She did pay rental but I think very cheap, less than $100 and I don't think she get S$235,000 leh because she rented from the HDB direct (property belongs to HDB), but HDB did offer her a 1 bedded flat (room and hall together) after they took back her 2 room flat.
Is it that this forum was under maintenance for the past few days?
How come free rental and still can get S$235,000? She did pay rental but I think very cheap, less than $100 and I don't think she get S$235,000 leh because she rented from the HDB direct (property belongs to HDB), but HDB did offer her a 1 bedded flat (room and hall together) after they took back her 2 room flat.
This forum need regular break.
Nothing is free in Singapore, even the air we breath.
Money is created and those who know get the most, just like what the Greece is doing now.
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