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http://propertysoul.com/2014/06/07/property-great-singapore-sale-to-buy-or-to-wait/
Property Great Singapore Sale: To buy or to wait?
June 7, 2014
The annual GSS (Great Singapore Sale) may have started only on May 25. But for property new launches, the GSS started much earlier.
The sale is now on
With the steam of an overheated property market dying down, the buzz has now shifted to developers playing discount games to push new projects or clear old stock. With so many ‘great deals’, buyers are spoiled for choices.
1. MCL Land cut prices for Hallmark Residences in Bukit Timah and sold 39 units in February and March.
2. CapitaLand’s Sky Habitat in Bishan managed to move over 100 units after relaunched at 10 to 15 percent off its original prices set two years ago.
3. Wheelock Properties put up 95 units of The Panorama in Ang Mo Kio for balloting. With a discount of 12 percent, they claimed to sell 80 to 85 units.
4. China developer Ximeng Land relaunched the balance of 12 luxury villas on Pearl Island in Sentosa Cove, offering an 8 percent discount from a year ago.
It proves that ‘early birds’ enjoy no advantage. We don’t see developers giving rebates back to early buyers who have paid at premium prices.
Let’s face it: It’s a buyers’ market now!
I am particularly amazed by the 180 degree change of attitude at The Panorama. I visited the sales gallery three months ago. A developer’s representative was ‘patrolling’ there to ensure no photo-taking, no sales brochure before booking a unit …
Back in early January, a newspaper article mentioned that “hundreds of people visited the showflat” and “60 units out of the 120 units released were booked on the first day”. But the caveats show that only 56 units were transacted by end of April. So what happened to the units for the next 140 days after selling like hot cakes on the first day?
Anyway, the project won’t be completed until 2019. Who knows what the property market will be like five years from now?
Developers are now trying to transfer the risk of an unknown market to the buyers. Nonetheless, many buyers, especially first-time buyers and HDB upgraders, are excited by the new round of discounts and can’t wait to rush into the market.
More irresistible bargains on the way?
An HSR report revealed that 50 residential projects sold less than half of total units, including Hillion Residences in Bukit Panjang, Hillview Peak in Bukit Batok, Vue 8 Residence in Pasir Ris, The Glades in Tanah Merah, Treasure in Balmoral, Victory Ville, Devonshire 8, One Balmoral and 8 Raja.
Eight of these new projects sold less than 10 percent while two did not manage to sell any unit since their launch last year.
A Straits Times article on June 7 highlights the fact that 24 projects may be liable to $55.1 million in extension charges. Developers with foreign shareholders have to pay 8 to 24 percent of the land price to the government if they fail to sell their units two years after TOP. Projects that have already missed the deadline include Emerald Hill and The Marq.
All these facts are only the tip of an iceberg:
1. Many luxury homes in prime districts like Ardmore Park and Grange Road have been completed but not yet launched.
2. According to URA, as of 1st quarter 2014, there are a total of 6,733 private residential units launched but unsold. On top of that, an additional 80,261 private residential units are in the supply pipeline from the rest of this year to beyond 2018.
3. While developers are clearing their existing stock, every month there are new projects obtaining their TOP and new sites released by the government to build more private housing.
4. New project is not the only choice for buyers. There is strong competition from countless resale units whose owners are more flexible to slash prices if they are desperate to sell.
5. Local developers are competing with their counterparts from Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Australia, Japan, UK, US, etc. targeting the same buyers to move their current and future projects.
How can developers find so many buyers for their new units if they are only giving 15 percent discount? This is just the beginning of the big sale!
Where are the foreign shoppers?
In the midst of this ‘uniquely Singapore’ Property GSS, our most wanted foreign shoppers are nowhere to be seen.
Can participating developers seriously look into promotions targeting tourists from top-spending destinations? How about partnering with Singapore Tourism Board for organized shopping tours with free sightseeing, flight and accommodation bundled with booking a luxury home, with the 15 percent foreigner Additional Buyer Stamp Duty absorbed by the developers?
Afterall, individual developers have already stepped up their marketing efforts in overseas countries. For instance, S P Setia is now marketing Eco Sanctuary at Chestnut Avenue to buyers in Hong Kong who are suffering from Double Stamp Duty introduced by the local government.
Lesson learned: Sales of any product not meeting expectation at home can often find a new market in other countries.
The sale that worth waiting for
This year GSS is in its 20th year. Experienced shoppers like you and me have long become savvy buyers.
When the sale just starts, I am not in a hurry to buy. It is different from a private sale open for privileged customers for one day only.
Every sale starts with 10 percent discount for end of season sale; changes to 20 percent discount storewide; follows by further reduction of 50 percent; and ends with final reduction of 70 percent or more. Sometimes there is even a warehouse sale or moving out sale with massive mark-down of prices for stock clearance.
By then, I may not be able to find my size, or the color or style that I want. But it doesn’t matter. I have a limited budget and I will be very happy spotting a few ‘gems’ from the left-overs!
Yes, it's about time for all to realise that debt level must be firmly supported by income level.
Well done MND. Keep it up!
But reduction of 70% or even 50% is impossible. Removal of intervention measures would have taken place by then. No sane govt will blindly allow that.
I think a 30% knockoff at the very max.
http://propertysoul.com/2014/06/07/property-great-singapore-sale-to-buy-or-to-wait/
Property Great Singapore Sale: To buy or to wait?
June 7, 2014
The annual GSS (Great Singapore Sale) may have started only on May 25. But for property new launches, the GSS started much earlier.
The sale is now on
With the steam of an overheated property market dying down, the buzz has now shifted to developers playing discount games to push new projects or clear old stock. With so many ‘great deals’, buyers are spoiled for choices.
1. MCL Land cut prices for Hallmark Residences in Bukit Timah and sold 39 units in February and March.
2. CapitaLand’s Sky Habitat in Bishan managed to move over 100 units after relaunched at 10 to 15 percent off its original prices set two years ago.
3. Wheelock Properties put up 95 units of The Panorama in Ang Mo Kio for balloting. With a discount of 12 percent, they claimed to sell 80 to 85 units.
4. China developer Ximeng Land relaunched the balance of 12 luxury villas on Pearl Island in Sentosa Cove, offering an 8 percent discount from a year ago.
It proves that ‘early birds’ enjoy no advantage. We don’t see developers giving rebates back to early buyers who have paid at premium prices.
Let’s face it: It’s a buyers’ market now!
I am particularly amazed by the 180 degree change of attitude at The Panorama. I visited the sales gallery three months ago. A developer’s representative was ‘patrolling’ there to ensure no photo-taking, no sales brochure before booking a unit …
Back in early January, a newspaper article mentioned that “hundreds of people visited the showflat” and “60 units out of the 120 units released were booked on the first day”. But the caveats show that only 56 units were transacted by end of April. So what happened to the units for the next 140 days after selling like hot cakes on the first day?
Anyway, the project won’t be completed until 2019. Who knows what the property market will be like five years from now?
Developers are now trying to transfer the risk of an unknown market to the buyers. Nonetheless, many buyers, especially first-time buyers and HDB upgraders, are excited by the new round of discounts and can’t wait to rush into the market.
More irresistible bargains on the way?
An HSR report revealed that 50 residential projects sold less than half of total units, including Hillion Residences in Bukit Panjang, Hillview Peak in Bukit Batok, Vue 8 Residence in Pasir Ris, The Glades in Tanah Merah, Treasure in Balmoral, Victory Ville, Devonshire 8, One Balmoral and 8 Raja.
Eight of these new projects sold less than 10 percent while two did not manage to sell any unit since their launch last year.
A Straits Times article on June 7 highlights the fact that 24 projects may be liable to $55.1 million in extension charges. Developers with foreign shareholders have to pay 8 to 24 percent of the land price to the government if they fail to sell their units two years after TOP. Projects that have already missed the deadline include Emerald Hill and The Marq.
All these facts are only the tip of an iceberg:
1. Many luxury homes in prime districts like Ardmore Park and Grange Road have been completed but not yet launched.
2. According to URA, as of 1st quarter 2014, there are a total of 6,733 private residential units launched but unsold. On top of that, an additional 80,261 private residential units are in the supply pipeline from the rest of this year to beyond 2018.
3. While developers are clearing their existing stock, every month there are new projects obtaining their TOP and new sites released by the government to build more private housing.
4. New project is not the only choice for buyers. There is strong competition from countless resale units whose owners are more flexible to slash prices if they are desperate to sell.
5. Local developers are competing with their counterparts from Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Australia, Japan, UK, US, etc. targeting the same buyers to move their current and future projects.
How can developers find so many buyers for their new units if they are only giving 15 percent discount? This is just the beginning of the big sale!
Where are the foreign shoppers?
In the midst of this ‘uniquely Singapore’ Property GSS, our most wanted foreign shoppers are nowhere to be seen.
Can participating developers seriously look into promotions targeting tourists from top-spending destinations? How about partnering with Singapore Tourism Board for organized shopping tours with free sightseeing, flight and accommodation bundled with booking a luxury home, with the 15 percent foreigner Additional Buyer Stamp Duty absorbed by the developers?
Afterall, individual developers have already stepped up their marketing efforts in overseas countries. For instance, S P Setia is now marketing Eco Sanctuary at Chestnut Avenue to buyers in Hong Kong who are suffering from Double Stamp Duty introduced by the local government.
Lesson learned: Sales of any product not meeting expectation at home can often find a new market in other countries.
The sale that worth waiting for
This year GSS is in its 20th year. Experienced shoppers like you and me have long become savvy buyers.
When the sale just starts, I am not in a hurry to buy. It is different from a private sale open for privileged customers for one day only.
Every sale starts with 10 percent discount for end of season sale; changes to 20 percent discount storewide; follows by further reduction of 50 percent; and ends with final reduction of 70 percent or more. Sometimes there is even a warehouse sale or moving out sale with massive mark-down of prices for stock clearance.
By then, I may not be able to find my size, or the color or style that I want. But it doesn’t matter. I have a limited budget and I will be very happy spotting a few ‘gems’ from the left-overs!
It's a yes and no, there are many project's that hv sells very well but those are not much highlighted, if one want a discounted project and the project is suitable for one, that's Ok but many wl prefer suitable project even is not discounting and many of these projects hv proven to sell well even without further discount. Recently HK hv relax one of the cooling measure and price's hv begin to move up, especially for new launches and prices are really high for Spore standard.
Waiting too... Still cannot stomach the 10% ABSD :( if only developers level the playing field ;)
Depends on individuals. Some waiting for crash of properties, some waiting for removal of CM, some like me waiting for a slight more discount from seller. I think property is unlike other items. It is one of the biggest investment ever to happen in ones life time. So have to be careful loh.
Most of the unsold units are the bigger units.
I think the tdsr restricted many buyers..if the bigger units discounted until 30% percent the people who have brought the smaller units would be sitting a big paper loss.:(
Most of the unsold units are the bigger units.
I think the tdsr restricted many buyers..if the bigger units discounted until 30% percent the people who have brought the smaller units would be sitting a big paper loss.:(
That is exactly the point. That is the idea.
That is exactly the point. That is the idea.
In that case...will impact ec..hdb also isn't it?
30 percent no joke. I don't think it's called " soft landing".
It will create panick among investors... Just like stocks..people will suddenly want to off load to cut losses.
HDB sure go up when population reach 6.9 to 8 millions.
Last time in 1996 people said don't buy will see $1millions,
now 2014 I say don't buy will see $2million for HDB!
In that case...will impact ec..hdb also isn't it?
30 percent no joke. I don't think it's called " soft landing".
It will create panick among investors... Just like stocks..people will suddenly want to off load to cut losses.
Relax. I stated max I can believe is 30%. Typically 10 to 15 % is logical.
You should read the original TS message, 70% lelong. Really ludicrous, although I must admit that sort of happened before.
This is an artificial buyers market.
The tides will turn immediately the moment cooling measures are removed.
When artificial economics are at work you are at the mercy of the government.
Things can change immdediately.
Buyers need to be aware
"Every sale starts with 10 percent discount for end of season sale; changes to 20 percent discount storewide; follows by further reduction of 50 percent; and ends with final reduction of 70 percent or more. Sometimes there is even a warehouse sale or moving out sale with massive mark-down of prices for stock clearance."
how come I observed the contray in the GSS ( not regarding to properties): there will be some discount in end of May and early June. By end of June, all the so called discounts are gone and the choices of goods are very limited?
"Every sale starts with 10 percent discount for end of season sale; changes to 20 percent discount storewide; follows by further reduction of 50 percent; and ends with final reduction of 70 percent or more. Sometimes there is even a warehouse sale or moving out sale with massive mark-down of prices for stock clearance."
how come I observed the contray in the GSS ( not regarding to properties): there will be some discount in end of May and early June. By end of June, all the so called discounts are gone and the choices of goods are very limited?
I noticed that too..:beats-me-man:
walkthetiger
09-06-14, 10:34
I noticed that too..:beats-me-man:
....there is no need to rush to buy for a second house now, unless u worry there will no better one later, and u can't wait longer.... looking at government's plan, it appears there is no shortage of supply... I prefer to watch how those developers conduct the great sale for buyers....
Landed segment still seems to be holding out to lower prices. A lot of resilience in this, driven by strong demand, and the fact that many of the old owners have no debt on the properties. The real question mark in this segment is whether those that bought in the past 24 months at historic highs, can sustain their mortgages should the economy dip. Right now no dip in sight, but it usually takes something that none has foreseen to trigger the downturn.
"Every sale starts with 10 percent discount for end of season sale; changes to 20 percent discount storewide; follows by further reduction of 50 percent; and ends with final reduction of 70 percent or more. Sometimes there is even a warehouse sale or moving out sale with massive mark-down of prices for stock clearance."
Article review that said 50% discount or even 70% discount is baseless. Looking at past 25 years, when was the last time property price reduced by 50%?
Do we have worldwide economic crisis now? Do we have high interest rate soon or now?
Most recent news ECB has reduced interest rate at Europe.
Can anyone quote which country has seen spike in interest rate now?
With General election due by 2016, does it make sense for the govt to see market crashed by 50%?
Use common sense to think.
Article review that said 50% discount or even 70% discount is baseless. Looking at past 25 years, when was the last time property price reduced by 50%?
Do we have worldwide economic crisis now? Do we have high interest rate soon or now?
Most recent news ECB has reduced interest rate at Europe.
Can anyone quote which country has seen spike in interest rate now?
With General election due by 2016, does it make sense for the govt to see market crashed by 50%?
Use common sense to think.
I think the TS does not mean on the whole collapse of 70%. What I have seen before are isolated deal (s) of huge discount of 50 to 70% not the whole market dip of 70%.
Wolverine23
09-06-14, 22:14
The threadstarter has sold off all her properties. Of course, she will talk down the market.
Let's see what is her stance when market turns up. :D:D:D
Every sale starts with 10 percent discount for end of season sale; changes to 20 percent discount storewide; follows by further reduction of 50 percent; and ends with final reduction of 70 percent or more. Sometimes there is even a warehouse sale or moving out sale with massive mark-down of prices for stock clearance.
By then, I may not be able to find my size, or the color or style that I want. But it doesn’t matter. I have a limited budget and I will be very happy spotting a few ‘gems’ from the left-overs!
Experienced the GSS today. They don't have my size for almost everything I like. It's either that or design I don't like, or out of my price budget.
Still managed to get after emptying the shop something almost the right size and almost the right design and within budget.
With General election due by 2016, does it make sense for the govt to see market crashed by 50%?
Use common sense to think.
I agree with u that market will not crash by 50% cos the gov already mentioned that they couldn't prevent a crashed but will engineered a "soft landing" I think that many possibilities can happen within the next 12 mths. Frm the past, it served as a guide doesn't mean that it will not happen in the future. Anything is possible, just like many Bros here would want to have a change in the garment in 2016.i would always say " I'm not sure if changing is good" but my friends would always reply " you will never know" then I speechless.
To all sellers, pls be realistic
To all buyers, pls be sensible
walkthetiger
09-06-14, 22:50
Experienced the GSS today. They don't have my size for almost everything I like. It's either that or design I don't like, or out of my price budget.
Still managed to get after emptying the shop something almost the right size and almost the right design and within budget.
.....Likewise.... Some shops are trying to sell "rubbish" at discounted price during this GSS, but still can't find a buyer for months......
I agree with u that market will not crash by 50% cos the gov already mentioned that they couldn't prevent a crashed but will engineered a "soft landing" I think that many possibilities can happen within the next 12 mths. Frm the past, it served as a guide doesn't mean that it will not happen in the future. Anything is possible, just like many Bros here would want to have a change in the garment in 2016.i would always say " I'm not sure if changing is good" but my friends would always reply " you will never know" then I speechless.
To all sellers, pls be realistic
To all buyers, pls be sensible
Singapore is very prosperous now a change in govt will kill everything down to our jobs and future and exchange rate. I prefer under this current govt rule.
walkthetiger
09-06-14, 23:06
The threadstarter has sold off all her properties. Of course, she will talk down the market.
...走的快，好世界
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistics/browse_by_theme/population/time_series/hhinc.xls
Look at table T7. Look at how many % of household earn 12k or more for year 2000,2005,2010??? What do you see???
Look at the % of household who earn 20k or more for year 2000,2005,2010???
Look at the salary growth.... Did your salary also moved in tandem ????
walkthetiger
09-06-14, 23:31
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistics/browse_by_theme/population/time_series/hhinc.xls
Look at table T7. Look at how many % of household earn 12k or more for year 2000,2005,2010??? What do you see???
Look at the % of household who earn 20k or more for year 2000,2005,2010???
Look at the salary growth.... Did your salary also moved in tandem ????
... also try looking at the cost of living index...try asking those families with young children, how much they need every month, how much their children need for future education, and how much are their annual medical bills as well...
walkthetiger
09-06-14, 23:39
Singapore is very prosperous now a change in govt will kill everything down to our jobs and future and exchange rate. I prefer under this current govt rule.
....Don't worry, gov change is impossible..... have faith in this gov....
2000 vs 2005 vs 2010, did the cost of raising a kid increase so much???
2000 vs 2010, cost of sending kid overseas dropped because sing dollar strengthen....
% of household earning > 20k/month
Year 2000 - 2.4%
Year 2005 - 3.4%
Year 2010 - 6.6%
Year 2013 - 9.9%
Mind boggling. Look at hdb max criteria.... 10 or 12k per month... Now compare the % of household earning more than 12k per month in 2000, 2005 and 2013... Really mind boggling...
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistics/browse_by_theme/population/time_series/hhinc.xls
Now I know the gini coefficient effect.... Really shocking....
1. Yes, cost of raising kid went up exponentially. Childcare went up by maybe about 30%-50% to increase pay of childcare teachers to meet the % of household meeting the % you stated. This is excluding the childcares heavily subsidised by Govt, but the households with the income range you stated, which type of childcare do you think they will send their kids to?
Milk powder also increased by about 30-40% since 2008.
2. Car costs also went up in a similar fashion. More than 100% rise due to COE. I think the households meeting the criteria you stated are also affected similarly. Some have more than 1 car.
3. Many of those households are already taking on the financing cost of a private. Especially the younger households that begin with private apartments. Don't you think?
2000 vs 2005 vs 2010, did the cost of raising a kid increase so much???
2000 vs 2010, cost of sending kid overseas dropped because sing dollar strengthen....
% of household earning > 20k/month
Year 2000 - 2.4%
Year 2005 - 3.4%
Year 2010 - 6.6%
Year 2013 - 9.9%
Mind boggling. Look at hdb max criteria.... 10 or 12k per month... Now compare the % of household earning more than 12k per month in 2000, 2005 and 2013... Really mind boggling...
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistics/browse_by_theme/population/time_series/hhinc.xls
Now I know the gini coefficient effect.... Really shocking....
1. Yes, cost of raising kid went up exponentially. Childcare went up by maybe about 30%-50% to increase pay of childcare teachers to meet the % of household meeting the % you stated. This is excluding the childcares heavily subsidised by Govt, but the households with the income range you stated, which type of childcare do you think they will send their kids to?
Milk powder also increased by about 30-40% since 2008.
2. Car costs also went up in a similar fashion. More than 100% rise due to COE. I think the households meeting the criteria you stated are also affected similarly. Some have more than 1 car.
3. Many of those households are already taking on the financing cost of a private. Especially the younger households that begin with private apartments. Don't you think?
Why did everything go up???? Why???? Did you notice inflation seems so high in recent years???? Why?????
Do you think your money got smaller???? Why????
Have you heard of QE????
Look at Singapore money supply
https://secure.mas.gov.sg/MSB-XML/Report.aspx?tableSetID=I&tableID=I.1
Death , Life , Tax and Inflation. Four certainties in life. The faster we come to grips with it and the faster we act on it. Then the better planned we will be.
Death , Life , Tax and Inflation. Four certainties in life. The faster we come to grips with it and the faster we act on it. Then the better planned we will be.
Life is about relativity.... If every Singapore has 1 million in the bank, being a millionaire does not mean anything...
In ippt, if everyone runs 9.45 min for 2.4 km, they will need to bring the timing lower to qualify for gold....
If everyone can understand and do something about the above. And if no one bitches about cpf, salary low, life not fair, house price high, etc.... It will raise the bar....
If everyone smart, you need to work harder to shine.... Why do you think the ave looking girl likes to be in a group of ugly girls....
The painful truth....
Why did everything go up???? Why???? Did you notice inflation seems so high in recent years???? Why?????
Do you think your money got smaller???? Why????
Have you heard of QE????
Look at Singapore money supply
https://secure.mas.gov.sg/MSB-XML/Report.aspx?tableSetID=I&tableID=I.1
I agree with what you mean generally. Was just addressing what you stated that childcare has not increased significantly. It has. Disposable income of families have increased but so has their commitment to other areas of spend. TDSR and ABSD attempts to address the difference caused by leveraging. Leveraging is like 2.4km run split into 24 parts, each time run 100m only and tabulate overall timing. As a result, huge ticket items impacted like cars and property as everyone cheongs their max and can even run multiple 2.4km runs and have excellent timing without the capacity.
For the last two years, property is on decline in all areas or remain flat. It will stabilise somewhere finally at the point supported by income.
walkthetiger
10-06-14, 07:31
1. Yes, cost of raising kid went up exponentially. Childcare went up by maybe about 30%-50% to increase pay of childcare teachers to meet the % of household meeting the % you stated. This is excluding the childcares heavily subsidised by Govt, but the households with the income range you stated, which type of childcare do you think they will send their kids to?
Milk powder also increased by about 30-40% since 2008.
2. Car costs also went up in a similar fashion. More than 100% rise due to COE. I think the households meeting the criteria you stated are also affected similarly. Some have more than 1 car.
3. Many of those households are already taking on the financing cost of a private. Especially the younger households that begin with private apartments. Don't you think?
No doubt that $10K-20k household income families have increased, but they still belong to Singapore middle income group. Now the gov should not focus on them to help them richer...think about the less wealthy group, they need more help to cope with the high cost of living in Singapore.
.....To ensure a better life for Singaporean, there should be some works in place to ensure things remain affordable. The gap between rich and poor has widened.
No doubt that $10K-20k household income families have increased, but they still belong to Singapore middle income group. Now the gov should not focus on them to help them richer...think about the less wealthy group, they need more help to cope with the high cost of living in Singapore.
.....To ensure a better life for Singaporean, there should be some works in place to ensure things remain affordable. The gap between rich and poor has widened.
This is a conundrum.... Look at New York, London, Paris.... The govt looks at other countries and take a note from there and tweak it. Which city has what you mentioned???
Seriously, I agree with you but what policies can be implemented???
No solution leh...
That's the price paid for being first world ...:(
I agree with what you mean generally. Was just addressing what you stated that childcare has not increased significantly. It has. Disposable income of families have increased but so has their commitment to other areas of spend. TDSR and ABSD attempts to address the difference caused by leveraging. Leveraging is like 2.4km run split into 24 parts, each time run 100m only and tabulate overall timing. As a result, huge ticket items impacted like cars and property as everyone cheongs their max and can even run multiple 2.4km runs and have excellent timing without the capacity.
For the last two years, property is on decline in all areas or remain flat. It will stabilise somewhere finally at the point supported by income.
Bro, I have no idea on the child care ... Paiseh...
Look at how much to loan on new car and Coe still high leh... Singaporeans are rich... Remove absd and u will see a flood of buyers... Now they not willing to pay absd and so buy overseas properties...
Tdsr is not the main killer in my opinion...
Look at how many households earning > 12 k.
Look at how many household earning more than 20k per month - > 9 % leh... This figures are shocking
London, New York and Paris are cities... Singapore is a country. No? Tell our fellow Poor Singaporeans to leave, give up their citizenships? Go where?
walkthetiger
10-06-14, 08:37
This is a conundrum.... Look at New York, London, Paris.... The govt looks at other countries and take a note from there and tweak it. Which city has what you mentioned???
Seriously, I agree with you but what policies can be implemented???
No solution leh...
That's the price paid for being first world ...:(
Beside knowing how to invest, do spare a bit of time to think about the problems Singapore is facing and your less wealthy people too ... your country has a set of unique problems to solve....Also take note that jobs opportunity weren't that great in those cities..so many foreigners admire your country, as this country knows how to fix the basic things correctly.
Beside knowing how to invest, do spare a bit of time to think about the problems Singapore is facing and your less wealthy people too ... your country has a set of unique problems to solve....Also take note that jobs opportunity weren't that great in those cities..so many foreigners admire your country, as this country knows how to fix the basic things correctly.
I am confused???? Are you a Singaporean??? I am saying that every country has its own problem..... Look at US, France, Indonesia, Thailand.... Which country is ideal... I have not found any ideal country at all... Have you????
There will always be poverty.... It is the extend of it...
Look at Indonesia... Are they worse off???
The ideal world does not exist... It is a dream... That's why John Lenon sang imagine....
"Imagine"
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
I too hope for this day... but I do not expect to see it in my lifetime nor my children's lifetime... So if thats the case, what should 1 do???
The dreamer will suffer.... for the hope to become reality, it seems unlikely...
unless of course the dreamer is an inventor...
London, New York and Paris are cities... Singapore is a country. No? Tell our fellow Poor Singaporeans to leave, give up their citizenships? Go where?
Why need to leave???? Singapore is still a better place compared with many other countries.... Who ever said Singapore is unlivable???? The govt still take care of this group leh.... No????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/11/30/singapore-is-it-a-city-or-country/
I am confused???? Are you a Singaporean??? I am saying that every country has its own problem..... Look at US, France, Indonesia, Thailand.... Which country is ideal... I have not found any ideal country at all... Have you????
There will always be poverty.... It is the extend of it...
Look at Indonesia... Are they worse off???
The ideal world does not exist... It is a dream... That's why John Lenon sang imagine....
"Imagine"
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
I too hope for this day... but I do not expect to see it in my lifetime nor my children's lifetime... So if thats the case, what should 1 do???
The dreamer will suffer.... for the hope to become reality, it seems unlikely...
unless of course the dreamer is an inventor...
i dream of the day when they build a shelter to cover the whole island, then no so hot :D
beside that, no much complaints :D
:cheers1:
i dream of the day when they build a shelter to cover the whole island, then no so hot :D
beside that, no much complaints :D
Must have air-con hor... machiam Bugis Mall
http://www.bugisjunction-mall.com.sg/malls/static/subpage_about.aspx?id=mall
invigorated
10-06-14, 10:04
Bro, I have no idea on the child care ... Paiseh...
Look at how much to loan on new car and Coe still high leh... Singaporeans are rich... Remove absd and u will see a flood of buyers... Now they not willing to pay absd and so buy overseas properties...
Tdsr is not the main killer in my opinion...
Look at how many households earning > 12 k.
Look at how many household earning more than 20k per month - > 9 % leh... This figures are shocking
Agree with u and many others here that ABSD and TDSR are definitely deprrssing prices artificially.
Would like to highlight that using household income may not fit your arguements well. I vaguely remember that you've quoted household income before in previous posts.
Household incomes computes that of all family members right? Change in household sizes, more family members going to work due to booming job market, couples staying with parents as they are waiting for bto or units to top.. all these have dramatic effects on household incomes and some of them are highlighted in the reports.
The main contention of this data, imho, isn't so much of how it affects housing prices as the profile of buyers vary in every household, but rather, of living affordability in sg.
Other considerations are that cpf is also considered in household incomes and the salaries of low income groups. When govt increases the cpf contribution by employers, household incomes will rise. On top of that, those earning less than 20k a year do not form part of the statistics as data is unavailable. This skews the data further...
Bro, I have no idea on the child care ... Paiseh...
Look at how much to loan on new car and Coe still high leh... Singaporeans are rich... Remove absd and u will see a flood of buyers... Now they not willing to pay absd and so buy overseas properties...
Tdsr is not the main killer in my opinion...
Look at how many households earning > 12 k.
Look at how many household earning more than 20k per month - > 9 % leh... This figures are shockingTo add on, MERCEDES is the NUMBER 1 selling car in SG!!! What does it says?!!
Agree with u and many others here that ABSD and TDSR are definitely deprrssing prices artificially.
Would like to highlight that using household income may not fit your arguements well. I vaguely remember that you've quoted household income before in previous posts.
Household incomes computes that of all family members right? Change in household sizes, more family members going to work due to booming job market, couples staying with parents as they are waiting for bto or units to top.. all these have dramatic effects on household incomes and some of them are highlighted in the reports.
The main contention of this data, imho, isn't so much of how it affects housing prices as the profile of buyers vary in every household, but rather, of living affordability in sg.
Other considerations are that cpf is also considered in household incomes and the salaries of low income groups. When govt increases the cpf contribution by employers, household incomes will rise. On top of that, those earning less than 20k a year do not form part of the statistics as data is unavailable. This skews the data further...
Compare 2000, 2005, 2010, 2013.... Do you think household size changed????
If you think the household size is bigger now compared with 5 years ago or 10 years ago... can I ask you a question - why you think so????:confused::confused::confused:
household size stats
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications_and_papers/cop2010/census_2010_release2/findings.pdf
stats here - T7
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistic...ries/hhinc.xls
Happy reading... Interpret it whichever way you want....
I not buying any more properties... hahahahahaha...:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Ok no more contribution from me on this topic... Cheers :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
smellyfish
10-06-14, 11:36
sale in Singapore always the odd size items. Or weird weird items. The nice classic items you want to buy, lucky if got 10%.
same for GSS, same for Sincere watch private sale. same for so called property sale???
:cheers1:
sale in Singapore always the odd size items. Or weird weird items. The nice classic items you want to buy, lucky if got 10%.
same for GSS, same for Sincere watch private sale. same for so called property sale???
:cheers1:
Hexagon shape with half area balcony?
Thanks bro Chestnut. It's good that we all have our own views and do share.
I do ponder about the sustainability of some of these increases or so called growth. We have charged into first world country in too short a time. How much further can we cheong?
Compare 2000, 2005, 2010, 2013.... Do you think household size changed????
If you think the household size is bigger now compared with 5 years ago or 10 years ago... can I ask you a question - why you think so????:confused::confused::confused:
household size stats
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications_and_papers/cop2010/census_2010_release2/findings.pdf
stats here - T7
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistic...ries/hhinc.xls
Happy reading... Interpret it whichever way you want....
I not buying any more properties... hahahahahaha...:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Ok no more contribution from me on this topic... Cheers :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Thanks bro Chestnut. It's good that we all have our own views and do share.
I do ponder about the sustainability of some of these increases or so called growth. We have charged into first world country in too short a time. How much further can we cheong?
Bro, not much.....
When a company does 1mil revenue, growing to 3 mil no prob, growing to 5 mil, no prob, next growing to 10 mil, no prob....
When a company does 30 billion revenue, how the hack to grow at exponential levels????
So we were in an explosive growth during past few years... those days are over....
The people have also spoken, there will be less foreigners and also less growth in Singapore.... So we just take whatever comes lor...
Cheers :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Think Apple 5 years ago to now.... Explosive...
Think apple now and the next 5 years - how to be explosive????
Now look at the stocks for the above??? will apple stocks be explosive like the past????
Cheers again :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
invigorated
10-06-14, 22:17
Compare 2000, 2005, 2010, 2013.... Do you think household size changed????
If you think the household size is bigger now compared with 5 years ago or 10 years ago... can I ask you a question - why you think so????:confused::confused::confused:
household size stats
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications_and_papers/cop2010/census_2010_release2/findings.pdf
stats here - T7
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistic...ries/hhinc.xls
Happy reading... Interpret it whichever way you want....
I not buying any more properties... hahahahahaha...:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Ok no more contribution from me on this topic... Cheers :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
My point was pretty clear that using the household income to gauge its effect on housing prices isn't a good one. I didn't say that household sizes have increased as you've mentioned, rather, that it changes and more importantly, the profile of the people in household changes too.
Imagine two scenarios,
One where the children stay with parents while waiting for bto.
Fiance with parents, his salary of 5k and parents own combined 15k. Thus household income 20k.
Fiancee with parents, her salary of 5k and parents also 15k, hh income 20k.
Another scenario when their houses are ready, 3 different households of household incomes 10k, 15k, 15k. Doesn't the profile of families matter in your interpreting of data???
Did I understand this wrongly??? I'm not suggesting this data isn't meaningful, but I feel that it isn't useful in filling in the direction of the housing market. We can't just say, hey, higher percentage of families with incomes of 20k so prices likely to go up..
Cyberknight
10-06-14, 23:04
Hi there, chestnut did not say more higher income hseholds= property Px goes up.
He is just asking u...if ur salary increases over past 10 yrs.....
Yes, u r right. There r always some exceptions. But we are looking at the overall picture in percentage of hseholds over past 13 yrs. The 3 hseholds living in same family should have gotten their BTOs by then. Unless they decided to stay together to save expenses.
Hi there, chestnut did not say more higher income hseholds= property Px goes up.
He is just asking u...if ur salary increases over past 10 yrs.....
Yes, u r right. There r always some exceptions. But we are looking at the overall picture in percentage of hseholds over past 13 yrs. The 3 hseholds living in same family should have gotten their BTOs by then. Unless they decided to stay together to save expenses.
I have seen many people choose this route, opting to house several families together. Oddly, it happens to be the more well to do groups who do that. Those that can barely make ends meet seem to prefer to live independently.
Of course, there is our Mt Sinai fellow who opposes the trend provided he has spoken the whole truth, but that is the exception rather than the norm.
Weird right?
Cyberknight
10-06-14, 23:26
The weird thinking for some ("or should I say many?") is that to have arrived is by having a "condo" address even it means moving from a 120sqm 5 room flat to a 65sqm "condo" address.
My point was pretty clear that using the household income to gauge its effect on housing prices isn't a good one. I didn't say that household sizes have increased as you've mentioned, rather, that it changes and more importantly, the profile of the people in household changes too.
Imagine two scenarios,
One where the children stay with parents while waiting for bto.
Fiance with parents, his salary of 5k and parents own combined 15k. Thus household income 20k.
Fiancee with parents, her salary of 5k and parents also 15k, hh income 20k.
Another scenario when their houses are ready, 3 different households of household incomes 10k, 15k, 15k. Doesn't the profile of families matter in your interpreting of data???
Did I understand this wrongly??? I'm not suggesting this data isn't meaningful, but I feel that it isn't useful in filling in the direction of the housing market. We can't just say, hey, higher percentage of families with incomes of 20k so prices likely to go up..
In your 2 scenarios, over the past 10 or even 20 years, hasn't this been happening??? Unless you tell me 10 years ago, it wasn't the case????
I did not say household income goes up, property prices goes up....
If I believe that, I would be advocating buying properties... I would be snapping up like nobody biz.... Hahahahahaha.... Don't get so serious over this property thingy.... People provide info, just use it and interpret to whatever you like leh.... Like you want to interpret that profile change, after I ask you a few question, u still think you are rite, I will agree with you one... I have no problem one.... I love peace, not war:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
The weird thinking for some ("or should I say many?") is that to have arrived is by having a "condo" address even it means moving from a 120sqm 5 room flat to a 65sqm "condo" address.
Bro, for me it's about passive income.... It's about hedging against inflation.... It's about the tenant paying for my properties.... It's about planing for retirement... It's about legacy planing...
Bro, not much.....
When a company does 1mil revenue, growing to 3 mil no prob, growing to 5 mil, no prob, next growing to 10 mil, no prob....
When a company does 30 billion revenue, how the hack to grow at exponential levels????
So we were in an explosive growth during past few years... those days are over....
The people have also spoken, there will be less foreigners and also less growth in Singapore.... So we just take whatever comes lor...
Cheers :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
Think Apple 5 years ago to now.... Explosive...
Think apple now and the next 5 years - how to be explosive????
Now look at the stocks for the above??? will apple stocks be explosive like the past????
Cheers again :cheers1::cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
S curve effect..
I believe a drop followed by only slightly increase in future..
I like that and is happening. Just enjoy. Look at the big picture. :D
Bro, for me it's about passive income.... It's about hedging against inflation.... It's about the tenant paying for my properties.... It's about planing for retirement... It's about legacy planing...
Back to the topic...For OCR properties, the ones furthest from City area. (Tampines, Pasir ris, Punggol)...now hovering around 1 to 1.2 k for 2-bedders...how much do you think will drop?
Those nearer to city... like Bishan (Sky Habitat 1.5k to 1.6k for 2 bedder i think) and AMK....how much do you think will drop?
using 2 bedder type which is the most popular and sought after as the baseline.
Just a rule of thumb. Those units in OCR increase more in the last 3-4 years will drop more but need to qualify that there is always exception.
Back to the topic...For OCR properties, the ones furthest from City area. (Tampines, Pasir ris, Punggol)...now hovering around 1 to 1.2 k for 2-bedders...how much do you think will drop?
Those nearer to city... like Bishan (Sky Habitat 1.5k to 1.6k for 2 bedder i think) and AMK....how much do you think will drop?
using 2 bedder type which is the most popular and sought after as the baseline.
Just a rule of thumb. Those units in OCR increase more in the last 3-4 years will drop more but need to qualify that there is always exception.
Examples include? Where to find all these info?
Examples include? Where to find all these info?
Upper Bukit Timah.
Cyberknight
11-06-14, 20:01
Bro, for me it's about passive income.... It's about hedging against inflation.... It's about the tenant paying for my properties.... It's about planing for retirement... It's about legacy planing...
I like that. To achieve passive income, it also means choices.
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