View Full Version : Tharman accepts slower growth as trade-off for social stability
princess_morbucks
06-06-14, 15:02
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/breaking-news/singapore/tharman-accepts-slower-growth-trade-social-stability-20140606
[SINGAPORE] Singapore is willing to accept slower growth as a trade-off for social stability as it aims to keep down the number of foreigners working in the city-state, finance minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam told Reuters.
Over the past decade, Singapore's economy has expanded by a 6.4 per cent annual average. Tharman said that he would be happy if Singapore grew 3 per cent a year, as long as growth was driven mainly by gains in productivity. "Three percent growth is good growth," he said during an interview on Thursday.
High past growth has brought rising numbers of foreigners to work in wealthy Singapore, which in turn has spurred discontent among citizens angered by the strains put on infrastructure and services.
Between 2000 and 2013, Singapore's population rose to 5.4 million from 4 million, with foreigners accounting for the bulk of the 35 per cent increase.
Its like the teacher said "no need to study harder, we got lower score never mind. So the dumb students won't feel so bad".
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/breaking-news/singapore/tharman-accepts-slower-growth-trade-social-stability-20140606
How the SG economy can grow if so much money being remitted back?
How the SG economy can grow if so much money being remitted back?
Interesting theory "How the SG economy can grow if so much money being remitted back?" can share what you means.
princess_morbucks
06-06-14, 18:48
How the SG economy can grow if so much money being remitted back?
For the work permit holders, their salary is below $2.2K.
How much will they remit home after spending some here?
S pass holders earn at least $2.2 K.
EP holders earn at least $3.3 K.
S pass and EP holders rent homes here and most have their families here.
So they will spend their bulk of salary here.
Interesting Logic, so when china sell what they manufacture to US and there is a trade deficit they are richer than US. True or False.
thomastansb
06-06-14, 19:34
Bad move. Bad bad one.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/breaking-news/singapore/tharman-accepts-slower-growth-trade-social-stability-20140606
invigorated
06-06-14, 21:52
Bad move. Bad bad one.
Why would you think so?
In my house, more money means more harmony. How come one can say less money more stability. Does he has a scientific proof to say less economic growth mean more social stability?. How can a leader say such a thing?.
In my house, more money means more harmony. How come one can say less money more stability. Does he has a scientific proof to say less economic growth mean more social stability?. How can a leader say such a thing?.
Post 2011 GE, Transport Suck, Housing Suck, CPF Suck, Medical Suck, future of old and young Suck. Only a handful of people benefit from the economic growth now it pay back time.
Transport minster out, Housing minster out, Labor minister out, two wise man out. So far can see some light.
rymccondo77
06-06-14, 22:32
Singapore grow fast - people complain (one example - see Roy's article below):
http://thehearttruths.com/category/in-singapore-weve-forgotten-i-think-that-i-am-better-than-you/
Minister of Trade now says okay for Singapore to grow slower - people also complain .....
Anyway he says slower economic growth, he did not say don't grow!
Singapore grow fast - people complain (one example - see Roy's article below):
http://thehearttruths.com/category/in-singapore-weve-forgotten-i-think-that-i-am-better-than-you/
Minister of Trade now says okay for Singapore to grow slower - people also complain .....
Anyway he says slower economic growth, he did not say don't grow!
It is unprecedented that a leader projecting a slower growth and at the same time pointing out the benefit of slower economy. There is no benefit on slower economy. Not even social stability.
Diff ppl diff stroke. Ppl here generally r diff from Roy supporters
His statements is like a bad news, good news jokes:
A guy is in the hospital with two broken legs. The nurse comes in and tells him that there's good news and bad news.
The guy asks for the bad news first.
The nurse says, "We're going to have to remove your legs."
Then the guy asks for the good news.
The nurse says, "The guy beside you wants to buy your sneakers."
rymccondo77
06-06-14, 23:29
Personally, I would rather trust Tharman :)
http://www.euromoney.com/GatewayAd.aspx?Redirect=http%3a%2f%2fwww.euromoney.com%2fArticle%2f3265239%2fFinance-Minister-of-the-Year-2013-Singapores-Tharman-Shanmugaratnam.html
P.S. Not that I am a PAP fan. Neither am I a Roy supporter.
Personally, I would rather trust Tharman :)
http://www.euromoney.com/GatewayAd.aspx?Redirect=http%3a%2f%2fwww.euromoney.com%2fArticle%2f3265239%2fFinance-Minister-of-the-Year-2013-Singapores-Tharman-Shanmugaratnam.html
P.S. Not that I am a PAP fan. Neither am I a Roy supporter.
Who are the people who give away "finance minister of the year award"? Allies or competitors?. Most likely are the allies. If they like what you are doing that benefit them, they give you an award. Its as simple as that.
True award is when your competitors curse at you.
rymccondo77
07-06-14, 00:05
1) Like I said, I would rather trust in Tharman (even if he wins no awards!).
2) When a public figure says something, there will be people who agree or like what he / she says, and there will be those who think otherwise.
Can't please everybody :)
Cyberknight
07-06-14, 02:33
I trust Tharman, that Roy guy is going to occupy hong lim tomorrow. I just shake head.
Maybe garmen should just let all whom wants to withdraw CPF to withdraw and sign indemnity that they are not longer eligible for state support in their old age. cos they spent their $$$, do not have a roof over their head, no $$$ to makan, come and beg the garmen for welfarism. Look for Roy then...
For the work permit holders, their salary is below $2.2K.
How much will they remit home after spending some here?
S pass holders earn at least $2.2 K.
EP holders earn at least $3.3 K.
S pass and EP holders rent homes here and most have their families here.
So they will spend their bulk of salary here.
My safety coordinator clocks in at least $6k and above with OT and lives in worker's dormitory, so don't be so naive, many workers earn at least $2k with OT, live in worker's dormitory, so they can remit substantial amounts, EP and S pass holders, also earn quite a bit on average $3 to $4k and more, you are wrong many don't bring their families here and they rent rooms, many even share, again they remit home a sizable amounts of money, you seem to be out of touch, even maids remit almost all of their salaries back home so do Malaysians, many go back everyday so their money earned here goes back to Malaysia, please go visit money remittance centers in Orchard Road, Serangoon Road, Chinatown and Boon Lay and see first hand the crowds before you comment, look at the explosion in growth in JB infrastructure and residential properties, all these are fuelled only recently by the huge influx of Malaysians working in Singapore and spending back home.
Please come down to the ground to see. The leakage of money out of Singapore is tremendous, like you, nobody sees this or even wants to address and recognize this catastrophic leakage. The ministers only focus on growth but much of the growth is leaked out to other nations.
My safety coordinator clocks in at least $6k and above with OT and lives in worker's dormitory, so don't be so naive, many workers earn at least $2k with OT, live in worker's dormitory, so they can remit substantial amounts, EP and S pass holders, also earn quite a bit on average $3 to $4k and more, you are wrong many don't bring their families here and they rent rooms, many even share, again they remit home a sizable amounts of money, you seem to be out of touch, even maids remit almost all of their salaries back home so do Malaysians, many go back everyday so their money earned here goes back to Malaysia, please go visit money remittance centers in Orchard Road, Serangoon Road, Chinatown and Boon Lay and see first hand the crowds before you comment, look at the explosion in growth in JB infrastructure and residential properties, all these are fuelled only recently by the huge influx of Malaysians working in Singapore and spending back home.
Please come down to the ground to see. The leakage of money out of Singapore is tremendous, like you, nobody sees this or even wants to address and recognize this catastrophic leakage. The ministers only focus on growth but much of the growth is leaked out to other nations.
Which country does not allow remittance of money from foreign workers????
Social stability should NOT be traded off for anything, high growth, low growth or no growth. It is an old communist rhetoric.
PAP is trying to make it obvious for the its citizens that if you dont want foreigners, then please be ready to accept slower growth and self service
Social stability should NOT be traded off for anything, high growth, low growth or no growth. It is an old communist rhetoric.
in case i dont misunderstand you, do you mean to say social stability has priority ?
PAP is trying to make it obvious for the its citizens that if you dont want foreigners, then please be ready to accept slower growth and self service
That's reversed psychology. Are we kids?
in case i dont misunderstand you, do you mean to say social stability has priority ?
Social stability is a separate issue from economic growth. It is NOT more important than economic growth. However, it is dangerous when you are connecting the two separate issue together.
princess_morbucks
07-06-14, 10:52
My safety coordinator clocks in at least $6k and above with OT and lives in worker's dormitory, so don't be so naive, many workers earn at least $2k with OT, live in worker's dormitory, so they can remit substantial amounts, EP and S pass holders, also earn quite a bit on average $3 to $4k and more, you are wrong many don't bring their families here and they rent rooms, many even share, again they remit home a sizable amounts of money, you seem to be out of touch, even maids remit almost all of their salaries back home so do Malaysians, many go back everyday so their money earned here goes back to Malaysia, please go visit money remittance centers in Orchard Road, Serangoon Road, Chinatown and Boon Lay and see first hand the crowds before you comment, look at the explosion in growth in JB infrastructure and residential properties, all these are fuelled only recently by the huge influx of Malaysians working in Singapore and spending back home.
Please come down to the ground to see. The leakage of money out of Singapore is tremendous, like you, nobody sees this or even wants to address and recognize this catastrophic leakage. The ministers only focus on growth but much of the growth is leaked out to other nations.
They can remit all the money they like.
The end result is more important, ie does Singapore benefit from their existence?
The answer seems to be yes, but at the expense of some who can't tolerate the sudden increase in influx.
Sometimes be naive and trust the ruling party to do its job well is good for individual's health.
No need to feel upset and irked by it.
princess_morbucks
07-06-14, 10:54
Here is the full article :
http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapore/spore-finance-minister-accepts-slower-growth-trade-social-stability
SINGAPORE - Singapore is willing to accept slower growth as a trade-off for social stability as it aims to keep down the number of foreigners working in the city-state, Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam told Reuters.
Over the past decade, Singapore's economy has expanded by a 6.4 per cent annual average. Tharman said that he would be happy if Singapore grew 3 per cent a year, as long as growth was driven mainly by gains in productivity. "Three per cent growth is good growth," he said during an interview on Thursday.
High past growth has brought rising numbers of foreigners to work in wealthy Singapore, which in turn has spurred discontent among citizens angered by the strains put on infrastructure and services.
Between 2000 and 2013, Singapore's population rose to 5.4 million from 4 million, with foreigners accounting for the bulk of the 35 per cent increase.
Unhappiness about inflows of foreigners helped an opposition party gain ground in the 2011 general elections as the People's Action Party, which has ruled Singapore since independence in 1965, won only 60 per cent of votes, its worst showing to date. The next election must be held by January 2017.
Tharman, who is also a deputy prime minister, said the government accepts a slower growth rate as the cost of ensuring the country retains its national identity, combats over-crowding and keeps the ratio of foreign to local workers at around one-third.
NOT LIKE DUBAI
"We are never going to be Dubai, we are a country with a social ethos that we take very seriously," the 57-year-old finance minister said.
The number of foreigners in Dubai is larger than that of locals, a result of its aggressive economic growth strategy.
At the end of 2013, there were 1.32 million foreigners in Singapore who held employment or work-passes, around 38 per cent of the total work-force.
In 2010, Singapore launched a 10-year plan to restructure its economy, aiming to increase productivity and cap the ratio of foreigners in the workforce at around one-third. The plan aimed to raise the productivity rate by an average of 2 to 3 per cent a year, though it actually fell in 2012 and 2013.
In line with the plan, the government has imposed regulations to curb hiring of overseas workers in some sectors.
Now many companies, particularly in the construction and hospitality sectors, are clamouring for a let-up in the rules, saying they are hurting their businesses.
Last week, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said the government would delay S$2 billion ($1.59 billion) of construction projects in order to reduce demand for foreign labour.
Tharman said no tweaks would be made to the rules to help companies in the sectors that are struggling, as they had to adjust and find more productive ways of working instead. "Giving them a little more slack can make some sense in the short-term but it delays that long-term transition," he said. "We know that this is a transition that can be done, it's not inventing something that hasn't been done elsewhere."
SOME INDUSTRIES WILL EXIT
For some companies though, he said, the rules may ultimately mean they have to leave Singapore as its economy becomes less competitive for some industries. "You can't move into higher value, high innovation activities without freeing up labour and land from the old activities, but you have to leave it to the market," Tharman said.
There are concerns that unhappiness about the number of foreigners in Singapore is causing some citizens to become hostile towards them.
Last month, organisers of a planned celebration on Singapore's main shopping street of Philippine independence day cancelled it after online abuse directed at the Filipino community.
Tharman said he didn't believe xenophobia was a major problem among Singaporeans or a threat to foreign investment.
Citizens "would be concerned for valid reasons if there is overcrowding in the buses or in their housing estates" he said. "But I don't think they are motivated in an unhealthy way."
In 2013, Singapore's economy expanded 3.9 per cent. The government forecasts growth of 2-4 per cent this year. Curbs on hiring foreign workers and steady economic growth mean the labour market is particularly tight, with unemployment hovering around 2 per cent.
Tharman said no tweaks would be made to the rules to help companies in the sectors that are struggling, as they had to adjust and find more productive ways of working instead. "Giving them a little more slack can make some sense in the short-term but it delays that long-term transition," he said. "We know that this is a transition that can be done, it's not inventing something that hasn't been done elsewhere."
Yes its been done somewhere...... Its called Japan.
A crowded wet market is much better than an empty luxurious mall. Its a wrong direction to go.
... He "accepts" lower growth.... Not that he "prefers/wants"....
... The inevitable happens... Nobody can escape this destiny : in politics, winning an election is everything :(
.. Honestly I hope he is actually just being smart enough to already know that, no matter what we do, we can only grow 3% anyway. So might as well do a nice PR and tell every one " yea we at PAP listened and we decided to lower growth for you". Hmmm I think this is more plausible. Tharman is a smart guy
... He "accepts" lower growth.... Not that he "prefers/wants"....
... The inevitable happens... Nobody can escape this destiny : in politics, winning an election is everything :(
.. Honestly I hope he is actually just being smart enough to already know that, no matter what we do, we can only grow 3% anyway. So might as well do a nice PR and tell every one " yea we at PAP listened and we decided to lower growth for you". Hmmm I think this is more plausible. Tharman is a smart guy
Or a beginning of Catastrophic mistake. Since the 70s up to now, the way people make money is still pretty much the same. Manufacturing, trading, service, banking. Singapore cannot choke off these traditional economy. You cannot reinvent the wheel. What you can do is to become the best in each sectors. For that you need the best people from all over the world. You need a larger pool of people, not smaller. There is a limit what technology can do, but there is no limit what human can do. They key is to manage all these human resources.
That's reversed psychology. Are we kids?
Obviously many people in Singapore doesnt know exactly what they are wishing for and thats why government has got no choice to make it obvious to the people that if you want to curb foreigners that is the kind of economic growth you will expect.
Actually from the feedback I got from many business owners, the shortage of manpower is hitting their growth plans very hard and I sure hope that government will quickly beef up our transportation network to help ease congestion.
My safety coordinator clocks in at least $6k and above with OT and lives in worker's dormitory, so don't be so naive, many workers earn at least $2k with OT, live in worker's dormitory, so they can remit substantial amounts, EP and S pass holders, also earn quite a bit on average $3 to $4k and more, you are wrong many don't bring their families here and they rent rooms, many even share, again they remit home a sizable amounts of money, you seem to be out of touch, even maids remit almost all of their salaries back home so do Malaysians, many go back everyday so their money earned here goes back to Malaysia, please go visit money remittance centers in Orchard Road, Serangoon Road, Chinatown and Boon Lay and see first hand the crowds before you comment, look at the explosion in growth in JB infrastructure and residential properties, all these are fuelled only recently by the huge influx of Malaysians working in Singapore and spending back home.
Please come down to the ground to see. The leakage of money out of Singapore is tremendous, like you, nobody sees this or even wants to address and recognize this catastrophic leakage. The ministers only focus on growth but much of the growth is leaked out to other nations.
come to tink of it, many singaporeans may not be earning tat much, hence they kpkb :D
foreign workers r able to go back to their hometown build hse after working in sg for 10 yrs but some singaporean might not even be able to afford resale hdb after working for 10yrs.
Based on my observation, many unhappy Singaporeans are actually quite clueless about what they are complaining and they have this believe that voting against PAP is cool and there is someone out there who will do a better job without having for them to work hard for own success.
Perhaps this could be due to age and their lack of knowledge about what are some of the underlying reasons for certain policies and what they are trade off.
For example CPF. I noticed that many of the very vocal people on the internet are mostly young adults instead of those middle age or senior citizens. Honestly if you havent even started working or paying income tax, how would you understand the value of having CPF instead of paying super high income tax like other developed countries. On one hand, you doesnt like CPF, on the other hand you are complaining about healthcare cost etc. If we dont have CPF, doesnt have high income tax, how are we as a country going to be able to afford subsidizing healthcare?
I honestly think that teenagers should go out and have fun like a teenagers instead of wasting time involving in politics
Allthepies
07-06-14, 17:40
Please come down to the ground to see. The leakage of money out of Singapore is tremendous, like you, nobody sees this or even wants to address and recognize this catastrophic leakage. The ministers only focus on growth but much of the growth is leaked out to other nations.
ultimately they are driven and work hard for their families, pay taxes, spend on food, housing, water, transport : )
Come to the ground to see how "driven" singaporean workers are...: )
matrix0405
08-06-14, 11:25
If there is any slow down in the economy, the blame lies squarely on the people.
Based on my observation, many unhappy Singaporeans are actually quite clueless about what they are complaining and they have this believe that voting against PAP is cool and there is someone out there who will do a better job without having for them to work hard for own success.
Perhaps this could be due to age and their lack of knowledge about what are some of the underlying reasons for certain policies and what they are trade off.
For example CPF. I noticed that many of the very vocal people on the internet are mostly young adults instead of those middle age or senior citizens. Honestly if you havent even started working or paying income tax, how would you understand the value of having CPF instead of paying super high income tax like other developed countries. On one hand, you doesnt like CPF, on the other hand you are complaining about healthcare cost etc. If we dont have CPF, doesnt have high income tax, how are we as a country going to be able to afford subsidizing healthcare?
I honestly think that teenagers should go out and have fun like a teenagers instead of wasting time involving in politics
They expect no Cpf n no tax n no gst $$$ fall from the sky n everything is cheap n their pay is high n working hours are short. No need to study n have pay that's high also. Don't work ah kong will take care . That's what they expect. I wonder is there a place like this in the world?
They can remit all the money they like.
The end result is more important, ie does Singapore benefit from their existence?
The answer seems to be yes, but at the expense of some who can't tolerate the sudden increase in influx.
Sometimes be naive and trust the ruling party to do its job well is good for individual's health.
No need to feel upset and irked by it.
The problem is the people mind set theses days. They benefit from the growth n the FW are here to provide a service. In the same breathe they cannot bare to see the FW gain from working here n go home.
When a Singaporean go Dubai don't they do the same? They sacrifice to leave their family behind with the aim to bring back a better living future for their families at home. If not why bother to sacrifice.
When the FW are here they also spend here this create also a industry which are run by Singaporeans ie doms, food n beverage, transport, remittance business n support services on the FW. Why people never see that benefits the Singaporean business leh.? These are Singaporean sme who also hire Singaporean. People just like to be color blinded . The xenophobic emotions stirred by lies n misconceptions are indeed worrying.
If there is any slow down in the economy, the blame lies squarely on the people.
No as usual they will blame n complain. That's tHe people mindset today.
The problem is the people mind set theses days. They benefit from the growth n the FW are here to provide a service. In the same breathe they cannot bare to see the FW gain from working here n go home.
When a Singaporean go Dubai don't they do the same? They sacrifice to leave their family behind with the aim to bring back a better living future for their families at home. If not why bother to sacrifice.
When the FW are here they also spend here this create also a industry which are run by Singaporeans ie doms, food n beverage, transport, remittance business n support services on the FW. Why people never see that benefits the Singaporean business leh.? These are Singaporean sme who also hire Singaporean. People just like to be color blinded . The xenophobic emotions stirred by lies n misconceptions are indeed worrying.
Interesting, how does the average Singaporean benefit from the growth? Many have seen the wages stagnate or even decreased, many have beed displaced from their jobs in ths "growing economy". Please elaborate rather then calling others xenophobic. Be more specific.
Yes Singaporean employers and businessmen benefit, but they do not form the bulk of the population
You think it is easy to go to Dubai for Singaporeans? How about if US, Canada. Australia open their doors blindly lie Singapore? many Singaporeans would be making a bee line there, in fact one cherry picking Singaporean was earning big bucks in OZ until he unfortunately lost his life. And BTW these countries I mentioned are very, very selective on their intake and don't just take in any cheap labour regardless of quality.
Anyway I don't know why I am even posting this? As property owner, I should welcome foreigners as I benefit from rental tremendously, since I benefit why should I care for the average Singaporean like you say....thanks alot dude.
Interesting, how does the average Singaporean benefit from the growth? Many have seen the wages stagnate or even decreased, many have beed displaced from their jobs in ths "growing economy". Please elaborate rather then calling others xenophobic. Be more specific.
Jobs. wage stagnate ? avg household income increase. stagnate are those at the bottom ranks where there are no skill set increase. the middle income family have been increasing. maybe u should check censors and tax collection before you jump to conclusion from your sources that all Singaporean wage stagnate.
no benefit? rather have a job that have wage then no jobs. thats the comparison.
people think jobs are given theses days. no one every think that there might not even be a JOBS if theres no economical growth?
Yes Singaporean employers and businessmen benefit, but they do not form the bulk of the population
The business man hires kang tao. hire more skilled work force, and even if they have to hire FW they have to full fill SGP work force quota. Those are jobs for singaporean. u can argue why must hire FW! then 1stly those jobs local want to do? then the argument pay more!!! sure!! so easy.. then maybe no pt setup shop here in sgp. coz the cost of labour verses skillset don't match. ! Pass the cost to the consumer for paying more??? NO NO NO people will scream thats not fair!!!!
You think it is easy to go to Dubai for Singaporeans?
Did I say its easy? You think its easy for the FW to come Singapore? The cost involved? not must take a lot of test too. So you think its easy?
How about if US, Canada. Australia open their doors blindly lie Singapore? many Singaporeans would be making a bee line there, in fact one cherry picking Singaporean was earning big bucks in OZ until he unfortunately lost his life. And BTW these countries I mentioned are very, very selective on their intake and don't just take in any cheap labour regardless of quality.
Again define Cheap? look at Silicon Valley how many % are asian? u mean difficult? no if you have a skills they want they open the door big big for you. Singapore people complain want things to be cheaper then naturally those delivering the service need to be low cost. The sheep fur grow on the sheep as the saying goes.
Anyway I don't know why I am even posting this? As property owner, I should welcome foreigners as I benefit from rental tremendously, since I benefit why should I care for the average Singaporean like you say....thanks alot dude.
You donno? Coz you are feeling the pinch. u want it all good pay good rental but want things to the cheap cheap. U think u all Singaporean should be taken care of but it should not be at your cost.
The pt is I care for the avg Singaporean don't mean I must endorse them to a life of laziness and entitlement. Help those in the bottom ranks not by giving away $ but help them get skilled. Help Singaporean not by crippling them with a sense of self entitlement but skills that can survived in a globalised world.!
Avg household income increase? Come on, cars and homes have increased way beyond wages, you must be living in a rock.
Economic growth has not filtered down to the general public, mostly goes to foreigners, they are enjoying higher wages in Singapore then ever and remitting the money back. Philippines knows this and it's largest export besides pineapple are it's people, they encourage their people to go out and bring back the economic growth of other people's countries and yet you cannot see this.
Let's not mix foreign workers and displaced PMETs, foreign workers are definitely needed to do jobs no Singaporeans want to do. I was running a metalcasting foundry you think I don't know the problem of getting labour? I do my part by getting household robots to clean my home and automate as much as possible to avoid having to get a maid. Eat out to sustain the economy as much as possbile, what I earn I try to spend here but I admit, selfishness has overtaken me too as I am less noble now, I service my car in JB and pump petrol across the causeway regularly, I eat more overseas too....afterall if I don't do it, foreigners do too.
It is so easy for foreigners to come to SG to work, again you are blind, so many ads in ASEAN recruiting foreigners to SG, it has never been easier for them, they can even look for jobs when on holiday in SG. Do you see any ads posted on bus stops recruiting people to work in US, Canada, Australia in SG? Yet you can see such ads in Myanmar, Vietnam and Malaysia.
Singapore opens door for crap skills, how many are Silicon Valley level of foreigners in Singapore? Most are half baked PMET foreigners coming in, the barriers are low here, you yourself admit that if the skill sets are high you can get into the US, so you are saying US has high barriers to entry, not Singapore.
Your last point is noble but how do you intend to achieve that if they cannot even grow in Singapore? nobody says we must give them crutch mentality but they need help to get on their feet.
We all in Condosingapore lead good lives I am sure, so many may be out of touch with the average person.
[QUOTE=xebay11;483849]Avg household income increase? Come on, cars and homes have increased way beyond wages, you must be living in a rock.
You or me? or your expectation have gone out of wack with income? U expect PC? Car? Car is a luxury in land scare singapore thats a fact. U mean everyone must be allowed to own a car? Like that you must well say a ROLEX price have gone up faster than wage. We must be able to afford a ROLEX each in singapore then?
Economic growth has not filtered down to the general public, mostly goes to foreigners, they are enjoying higher wages in Singapore then ever and remitting the money back. Philippines knows this and it's largest export besides pineapple are it's people, they encourage their people to go out and bring back the economic growth of other people's countries and yet you cannot see this.
Really base on what? I see middle income have gone up. Fresh grad pay is now $3000-3800 depends on discipline. verses $1800 20yrs ago. You mean thats stagnation? Its childish to think wages went to foreigners u mean singaporean want to go throw rubbish for $1000 per mth? or be a construction worker? or you mean u want to go be a maid to get paid $550 a mth without off day? Yeah FW comes here to work for better pay. So do singaporean goes US , Dubai for example. If not for a better pay then back home why would anyone come here to work. And they are still paid lower in some jobs than the Singaporean. And to be narrow minded to say that with out the Skilled FT Singaporean will have more job?The companies will not even setup shop here coz there are not enough human capital to run a business. in the end you think those singaporean who would be the mgr, or engineer or supervisors will have jobs? Narrow midness. You are running your own company and you see the hiring problem.I have some advertise for mths don't even get a Singaporean resume!
Let's not mix foreign workers and displaced PMETs, foreign workers are definitely needed to do jobs no Singaporeans want to do. I was running a metalcasting foundry you think I don't know the problem of getting labour? I do my part by getting household robots to clean my home and automate as much as possible to avoid having to get a maid.
That I agree.
Eat out to sustain the economy as much as possbile, what I earn I try to spend here but I admit, selfishness has overtaken me too as I am less noble now, I service my car in JB and pump petrol across the causeway regularly, I eat more overseas too....afterall if I don't do it, foreigners do too.
It is so easy for foreigners to come to SG to work, again you are blind, so many ads in ASEAN recruiting foreigners to SG, it has never been easier for them, they can even look for jobs when on holiday in SG. Do you see any ads posted on bus stops recruiting people to work in US, Canada, Australia in SG? Yet you can see such ads in Myanmar, Vietnam and Malaysia.
BTW what is the un employment rate in vietnam? Myanmmar? Actually you are comparing different industry. actually in Vietnam you can hardly find skill people but labour is so cheap and avg education levels are not up. They are open for skilled workers. But not low cost workers coz their own population do not have skills.
we are the inverse. We have a growing population of youths that are getting skilled but 1 thing we lack is human resources that the vietnam can easily tap. I was trying to fill a post in vietnam looking for a person with 2 skill set. 1 stone 2 birds. But later the reality is you just cannot find a dual skills person there . Finding a person with 1 good skills also hard already. in the end hire 2 viet and get someone outside of the country to mentor them. and fly in more often. Thats the problem with the developing country.
Singapore opens door for crap skills, how many are Silicon Valley level of foreigners in Singapore? Most are half baked PMET foreigners coming in, the barriers are low here, you yourself admit that if the skill sets are high you can get into the US, so you are saying US has high barriers to entry, not Singapore.
In the 1st place if a person is given a choice they would rather go Silicon valley. that by nature of the best attract the best. What singapore hv to move towards is attracting the best. When singpoare have react that level we can be picky. US when they started they also have a open immigration policies. NY is build by immigrants, the irish, greeks , chinese etc.
Your last point is noble but how do you intend to achieve that if they cannot even grow in Singapore? nobody says we must give them crutch mentality but they need help to get on their feet.
Why cannot grow? education is open to everyone. Jobs are almost a given to call. as long anyone willing to work hard have the opportunity. but there are no guarantee in life. Grow to become a millionaire? Go take some risk.
We all in Condosingapore lead good lives I am sure, so many may be out of touch with the average person.
What is the definition of good life? We don't have slums. If the idea of good life is everyone is entitled a PC and Car and guaranteed jobs and high pay? then thats a expectation that out of wack.
What is a avg person? someone who live in HDB with a Job? Is that a hard life? Thats attainable for everyone today as long you work for it. Study get a job. want more climb the corporate ladder, want more than tat try venture out. But The more you want the more risk you have to take tats the reality. but the base line are there. HDB from HDB and hawker food and public transport are affordable for the avg joe. Want more frankly work for it.
Another of those twist and turn from minority full of holes, people know your tricks, ha ha ha! :doh:
[QUOTE]
You or me? or your expectation have gone out of wack with income? U expect PC? Car? Car is a luxury in land scare singapore thats a fact. U mean everyone must be allowed to own a car? Like that you must well say a ROLEX price have gone up faster than wage. We must be able to afford a ROLEX each in singapore then?
Really base on what? I see middle income have gone up. Fresh grad pay is now $3000-3800 depends on discipline. verses $1800 20yrs ago. You mean thats stagnation? Its childish to think wages went to foreigners u mean singaporean want to go throw rubbish for $1000 per mth? or be a construction worker? or you mean u want to go be a maid to get paid $550 a mth without off day? Yeah FW comes here to work for better pay. So do singaporean goes US , Dubai for example. If not for a better pay then back home why would anyone come here to work. And they are still paid lower in some jobs than the Singaporean. And to be narrow minded to say that with out the Skilled FT Singaporean will have more job?The companies will not even setup shop here coz there are not enough human capital to run a business. in the end you think those singaporean who would be the mgr, or engineer or supervisors will have jobs? Narrow midness. You are running your own company and you see the hiring problem.I have some advertise for mths don't even get a Singaporean resume!
That I agree.
BTW what is the un employment rate in vietnam? Myanmmar? Actually you are comparing different industry. actually in Vietnam you can hardly find skill people but labour is so cheap and avg education levels are not up. They are open for skilled workers. But not low cost workers coz their own population do not have skills.
we are the inverse. We have a growing population of youths that are getting skilled but 1 thing we lack is human resources that the vietnam can easily tap. I was trying to fill a post in vietnam looking for a person with 2 skill set. 1 stone 2 birds. But later the reality is you just cannot find a dual skills person there . Finding a person with 1 good skills also hard already. in the end hire 2 viet and get someone outside of the country to mentor them. and fly in more often. Thats the problem with the developing country.
In the 1st place if a person is given a choice they would rather go Silicon valley. that by nature of the best attract the best. What singapore hv to move towards is attracting the best. When singpoare have react that level we can be picky. US when they started they also have a open immigration policies. NY is build by immigrants, the irish, greeks , chinese etc.
Why cannot grow? education is open to everyone. Jobs are almost a given to call. as long anyone willing to work hard have the opportunity. but there are no guarantee in life. Grow to become a millionaire? Go take some risk.
What is the definition of good life? We don't have slums. If the idea of good life is everyone is entitled a PC and Car and guaranteed jobs and high pay? then thats a expectation that out of wack.
What is a avg person? someone who live in HDB with a Job? Is that a hard life? Thats attainable for everyone today as long you work for it. Study get a job. want more climb the corporate ladder, want more than tat try venture out. But The more you want the more risk you have to take tats the reality. but the base line are there. HDB from HDB and hawker food and public transport are affordable for the avg joe. Want more frankly work for it.
The majority of people hope to get more in return for implementing GST just like those earning large income and businessmen, and not having to pay additional taxes via GST to compensate for net tax savings enjoyed by the rich. :o
They expect no Cpf n no tax n no gst $$$ fall from the sky n everything is cheap n their pay is high n working hours are short. No need to study n have pay that's high also. Don't work ah kong will take care . That's what they expect. I wonder is there a place like this in the world?
The majority of people hope to get more in return for implementing GST just like those earning large income and businessmen, and not having to pay additional taxes via GST to compensate for net tax savings enjoyed by the rich. :o
Do a 5 years old kid pay GST and if yes why.
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....
Really base on what? I see middle income have gone up. Fresh grad pay is now $3000-3800 depends on discipline. verses $1800 20yrs ago. You mean thats stagnation? ......
what was the price of housing 20 years ago? what was the affordability then and now?
is that progression, stagnation or regression?
if you like, you can bring back the example of singapore being a swampland, and everybody is fisherman and live in mud huts ;)
Wages
http://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/Income-Summary-Table.aspx
http://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/IncomeTimeSeries.aspx
http://www.statista.com/statistics/226956/average-world-wages-in-purchasing-power-parity-dollars/
[QUOTE=minority;483869]
what was the price of housing 20 years ago? what was the affordability then and now?
is that progression, stagnation or regression?
if you like, you can bring back the example of singapore being a swampland, and everybody is fisherman and live in mud huts ;)
Why not? When I graduated from poly my pay is $800.
Not if I graduate from poly its ard 2K-2.2K unit is 3-3.8K
a HDB 5 bedder from BTO is 300K a combine income of 2 person is 5K. - 7.2K why cannot afford a BTO. its sub sub water!
here 298K 5 bed room before you say 300K is bull.
http://esales.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eampu05p.nsf/0/14MAYBTO_page_2381/$file/about0.htm
Pls lah if you want to go Buy PC and complain PC is expensive ? its PC after all go work for it. PC is not a entitlement.
[QUOTE=hopeful;483919]
Why not? When I graduated from poly my pay is $800.
.
what was price of HDB then?
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