View Full Version : I suggest this for CPF so those people will stop complaining
I suggest govt to come up with opt in or out cpf for those who started working:
1) u can opt out of cpf. U r on your own. Employer no need to pay u 16% (employers laughing all the way to bank) and u keep your 20%. U will not have anything in your cpf account including medisave because u never deduct money 20% for cpf. You die your own business.
2) u can opt in cpf, u get 16% from employer and 2.5% interest rate for ordinary and 4% for special account but u need to follow whatever the govt implement, this includes retirement age and minimum sum.
I suggest govt to come up with opt in or out cpf for those who started working:
1) u can opt out of cpf. U r on your own. Employer no need to pay u 16% (employers laughing all the way to bank) and u keep your 20%. U will not have anything in your cpf account including medisave because u never deduct money 20% for cpf. You die your own business.
2) u can opt in cpf, u get 16% from employer and 2.5% interest rate for ordinary and 4% for special account but u need to follow whatever the govt implement, this includes retirement age and minimum sum.
What kind of option is this? Your choice like no choice, next!
I suggest govt to come up with opt in or out cpf for those who started working:
1) u can opt out of cpf. U r on your own. Employer no need to pay u 16% (employers laughing all the way to bank) and u keep your 20%. U will not have anything in your cpf account including medisave because u never deduct money 20% for cpf. You die your own business.
2) u can opt in cpf, u get 16% from employer and 2.5% interest rate for ordinary and 4% for special account but u need to follow whatever the govt implement, this includes retirement age and minimum sum.
i believe wat pple want
1) CPF rate to match inflation or higher
2) minimum sum dont increase like their fathers time
3) 55 year old can withdraw everything like their fathers time
Every time Government print money give some to CPF.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapore/money-supply-m3
thomastansb
05-06-14, 15:56
When you have 1 to 2 million people retiring, will you take the risk?
What if, half of them finish their CPF by 60 after they withdraw it at 55? It is a huge risk. They will end up begging, going to government, or whatever you can think of.
I would of course want to withdraw everything at 55. But not sure if it is a wise choice to make.
I suggest govt to come up with opt in or out cpf for those who started working:
1) u can opt out of cpf. U r on your own. Employer no need to pay u 16% (employers laughing all the way to bank) and u keep your 20%. U will not have anything in your cpf account including medisave because u never deduct money 20% for cpf. You die your own business.
2) u can opt in cpf, u get 16% from employer and 2.5% interest rate for ordinary and 4% for special account but u need to follow whatever the govt implement, this includes retirement age and minimum sum.
When you have 1 to 2 million people retiring, will you take the risk?
What if, half of them finish their CPF by 60 after they withdraw it at 55? It is a huge risk. They will end up begging, going to government, or whatever you can think of.
I would of course want to withdraw everything at 55. But not sure if it is a wise choice to make.
We go begging, govt also don't care. we go to govt, govt also dont bother. Then i rather take all my money by 55 or 60. At least, i choose my own future
We go begging, govt also don't care. we go to govt, govt also dont bother. Then i rather take all my money by 55 or 60. At least, i choose my own future
I think if very poor, government will care ....
darkseed73
05-06-14, 16:32
We go begging, govt also don't care. we go to govt, govt also dont bother. Then i rather take all my money by 55 or 60. At least, i choose my own future
I agree, pls don't make it sounds like govt is feeding our old ppl now.
They lock our money and give us back NOTHING and we STILL HAVE TO BEG.
Why should I allow that to happen?
I suggest govt to come up with opt in or out cpf for those who started working:
1) u can opt out of cpf. U r on your own. Employer no need to pay u 16% (employers laughing all the way to bank) and u keep your 20%. U will not have anything in your cpf account including medisave because u never deduct money 20% for cpf. You die your own business.
2) u can opt in cpf, u get 16% from employer and 2.5% interest rate for ordinary and 4% for special account but u need to follow whatever the govt implement, this includes retirement age and minimum sum.
y no option 3?
We opt out employee's 20% fm cpf.
juz let employer contribute the 16% in cpf is gd enuff liao :cheers5:
U all can opt out if u don't like. U r given a choice to choose.
U all can opt out if u don't like. U r given a choice to choose.
do we have the luxury of choice to opt out of CPF? not so eh?
When you have 1 to 2 million people retiring, will you take the risk?
What if, half of them finish their CPF by 60 after they withdraw it at 55? It is a huge risk. They will end up begging, going to government, or whatever you can think of.
I would of course want to withdraw everything at 55. But not sure if it is a wise choice to make.
you not sure does not mean others are like you also not sure. :)
We go begging, govt also don't care. we go to govt, govt also dont bother. Then i rather take all my money by 55 or 60. At least, i choose my own future
The gahmen is afraid that if u squander away all yr $ n you are too old or weak to work,they will end up having to look after u...
really squander $$ away ? really how many cases out of millions?
reckon singaporean are smart enough la... at least wont lose billions rite ? ;-)
This opt in or out can only choose once. Once u opt in or out no going back until u fulfill the retirement age.
This opt in or out can only choose once. Once u opt in or out no going back until u fulfill the retirement age.
If the Government have this option, I will be the first to list all my property in Singapore for sale.
If the Government have this option, I will be the first to list all my property in Singapore for sale.
Bro there r too many kpkb people. They just never think of anything and just complain. They thought their investments can beat cpf which is 2.5% interest rate plus 16% employer.
really squander $$ away ? really how many cases out of millions?
reckon singaporean are smart enough la... at least wont lose billions rite ? ;-)
I personally witnessed how some one splundered the money they got from downsizing... $80k in less than 2 years..not forgetting they have a 3.5k job..N plus they withdraw everything from their Cpf...got themselves new gfs. When I point out that they are splundering their money n lives away..just keep the money...Dun downsize..just rent out their roomy 5 room..they rebutted me that they are old Liao Will not live beyond 70..
These people are the same batch of people who kpkb against the government for locking up their funds. Now after getting their hands on their money liao...spent all no money liao..now blame government for othere.
No offense.. I feel the people who made the most noise are those financial not savvy people. Just want to spend.
Government well intentions are very misunderstood.
We go begging, govt also don't care. we go to govt, govt also dont bother. Then i rather take all my money by 55 or 60. At least, i choose my own future
well when the people become desperate they resort to vice then it starts to matters.
do we have the luxury of choice to opt out of CPF? not so eh?
who say cannot. u can go drive a taxi! DUH!!!!
really squander $$ away ? really how many cases out of millions?
reckon singaporean are smart enough la... at least wont lose billions rite ? ;-)
u will be surprised. I see so many cases.
Can be more specific how many cases you see or hear only?
Actual number likely very small.
u will be surprised. I see so many cases.
http://spicesg.blogspot.sg/2013/04/cheated-by-prc-woman_8.html
Just relating my experience as I hope other Singaporean men don't make the same, silly mistake. I really regretted meeting Xiao Feng. I recently started going to KTVs because of job requirements. I went to a place called, Grand Dynasty, just to bring my suppliers to enjoy themselves on company expense.
I am single and live alone, so it was refreshing when I met Xiao Feng, a pretty girl from Hunan. Although she was a KTV hostess, she made me feel like she was my girlfriend. Anyway, to cut the long story short, she chatted and exchanged phone numbers. I tipped her $50 after settling the bill and thought that that was the end of it.
When I got home at 3am, my phone rang. It was Xiao Feng. She wanted to see me and asked whether she could come to my place. I was excited because I really enjoyed chatting with her. I went back to pick her up and headed straight to my place. She stayed from 4am to 3pm and we enjoyed 2 ****s in the process. She told me she's here only for 30 days, and wanted to make as much as she can for her parents and brother back home. Before she went home, she asked me for $500. I was taken aback, and it was my mistake for not asking her the rate! SHIT! I don't earn a lot, as I'm just a salaryman. Anyway, I liked the feeling being with her and she assured me next time it would be 'free' as she said I am the only one she had sex with and wanted to see whether there is a future for us. She even asked me to spend Christmas in Shanghai with her. Taken in by her sweet words, I paid up. Yeah, I'm still banging my head on the wall! Though painful to my wallet, I really liked her and although people warned me not to get involved with KTV girls, the heart rules.
Anyway, I couldn't get my mind off her after that and she called me again on Friday saying to meet her after her "work". I said "OK" and again went back to my place to ****. Kept on telling myself that if she asks for $$$, its the end.... again we ****ed twice and she stayed till 5pm. To my surprise she did not ask for $$$ when i was sending her off, then i decided to send her back. BIG MISTAKE
Can be more specific how many cases you see or hear only?
Actual number likely very small.
I know many >10 uncles know are frequent KTV goers. How long they can continue before the exhaust their $$$? well its a matter of time. when ask why spend so much on this vices? answer cannot afford when young. now can why not. will die anyway.
I also have a friend whos father who dont have a job go buy a car coz his so call friend promise him some bogus business venture. and as a boss he must have a car. After get car liao then struggle to pay.
I also have 1 is son drain all his $ coz son have more GF then he can afford rake up lots of credit card bills then go ask father and mother help. Both parents are retirees end up the mother have to come out to work again as coffee aunty to put food on the table plus look after the son kids coz the daughter inlaw run away.
Another like gamble from gamble on boat to genting to 4D to casino. even force to sign exclusion he still can find way to gamble. from landed gamble until left HDB. No income ask kids for $ to gamble.
countless example I have seen from personal relative to friends.
Allthepies
05-06-14, 20:16
I suggest govt to come up with opt in or out cpf for those who started working:
1) u can opt out of cpf. U r on your own. Employer no need to pay u 16% (employers laughing all the way to bank) and u keep your 20%. U will not have anything in your cpf account including medisave because u never deduct money 20% for cpf. You die your own business.
2) u can opt in cpf, u get 16% from employer and 2.5% interest rate for ordinary and 4% for special account but u need to follow whatever the govt implement, this includes retirement age and minimum sum.
to protect good, honest, disciplined citizens who knows how to save for the future, we cannot allow opting out from the CPF scheme...
There are significant portion of the citizens who maximised enjoyment and have little or 0 savings for rainy days or retirement. These large group of citizens need force savings to protect not only themselves but those who are savers and future generations of singaporeans.
I know many >10 uncles know are frequent KTV goers. How long they can continue before the exhaust their $$$? well its a matter of time. when ask why spend so much on this vices? answer cannot afford when young. now can why not. will die anyway.
I also have a friend whos father who dont have a job go buy a car coz his so call friend promise him some bogus business venture. and as a boss he must have a car. After get car liao then struggle to pay.
I also have 1 is son drain all his $ coz son have more GF then he can afford rake up lots of credit card bills then go ask father and mother help. Both parents are retirees end up the mother have to come out to work again as coffee aunty to put food on the table plus look after the son kids coz the daughter inlaw run away.
Another like gamble from gamble on boat to genting to 4D to casino. even force to sign exclusion he still can find way to gamble. from landed gamble until left HDB. No income ask kids for $ to gamble.
countless example I have seen from personal relative to friends.
To add I have another uncle who is in a dead end business who do not know how to exit. and refuse to exit. Keep pouring and borrowing $ to put into a lost venture. I am counting down when the business will go bell up. If not for CPF he would be in worst state if his business go belly up. coz creditors cannot touch his CPF from his working days.
Allthepies
05-06-14, 20:33
u can put ur CPF money to good use as your downpayment for your first investment property.
CPF money is really a stepping stone for lower middle class to move up the value chain.
we used our CPF money for the downpayment for our first condo instead of HDB as u need more cash outlay to buy HDB. CPF money, discipline, delayed gratification and judgement help us to make our first small pot of gold.
make best use of what is available is the skill that every human possess but not commonly employed...this differentiate the "have" and the "have not", the happy and the unhappy, the positive and the negative...
I know many >10 uncles know are frequent KTV goers. How long they can continue before the exhaust their $$$? well its a matter of time. when ask why spend so much on this vices? answer cannot afford when young. now can why not. will die anyway.
I also have a friend whos father who dont have a job go buy a car coz his so call friend promise him some bogus business venture. and as a boss he must have a car. After get car liao then struggle to pay.
I also have 1 is son drain all his $ coz son have more GF then he can afford rake up lots of credit card bills then go ask father and mother help. Both parents are retirees end up the mother have to come out to work again as coffee aunty to put food on the table plus look after the son kids coz the daughter inlaw run away.
Another like gamble from gamble on boat to genting to 4D to casino. even force to sign exclusion he still can find way to gamble. from landed gamble until left HDB. No income ask kids for $ to gamble.
countless example I have seen from personal relative to friends.
Yes me too.
See too many to relate.
Not only men. Women too...buying spree...shopping gambling like no tomorrow.
u can put ur CPF money to good use as your downpayment for your first investment property.
CPF money is really a stepping stone for lower middle class to move up the value chain.
we used our CPF money for the downpayment for our first condo instead of HDB as u need more cash outlay to buy HDB. CPF money, discipline, delayed gratification and judgement help us to make our first small pot of gold.
make best use of what is available is the skill that every human possess but not commonly employed...this differentiate the "have" and the "have not", the happy and the unhappy, the positive and the negative...
Agree with you.
to protect good, honest, disciplined citizens who knows how to save for the future, we cannot allow opting out from the CPF scheme...
There are significant portion of the citizens who maximised enjoyment and have little or 0 savings for rainy days or retirement. These large group of citizens need force savings to protect not only themselves but those who are savers and future generations of singaporeans.
If these people don't take care of themselves.. We will indirectly have to support these people perhaps through higher tax etc.
There is a lot of people who regardless whether earning 20k per month 10k per month any income range is not financial ly savvy or prudent... Uni or pri school educated.
Cpf is a sort of safety net.
I feel strongly in this issues coz see too many cases how they literally spend everything in 2 years.
If these people don't take care of themselves.. We will indirectly have to support these people perhaps through higher tax etc.
There is a lot of people who regardless whether earning 20k per month 10k per month any income range is not financial ly savvy or prudent... Uni or pri school educated.
Cpf is a sort of safety net.
I feel strongly in this issues coz see too many cases how they literally spend everything in 2 years.
Agree. And there are other countries trying to study our CPF system and want to know and learn how it works. I wouldn't say that it is the best or flawless but it is working for our society at the moment. It is always easy to grumble, complain and criticize. But are there any better options or alternatives to manage CPF system which is rationale and will benefit the society? We need people to give solutions and not people who only know how to bark.
Agree. And there are other countries trying to study our CPF system and want to know and learn how it works. I wouldn't say that it is the best or flawless but it is working for our society at the moment. It is always easy to grumble, complain and criticize. But are there any better options or alternatives to manage CPF system which is rationale and will benefit the society? We need people to give solutions and not people who only know how to bark.
But honestly.. Looking at some blogger using this widely misunderstood system to stir sh*t...I think there will be overhaul how this safety net works.
Let's face it...sediments n irrational thinking overrules what's right..
I have an uncle who retired and cash out when he reached 55 many years ago.
Spent all the money on drinks and women. Even sold his flat.
In the end, have to depend on his children.
My cousins are no very educated and don't earn much.
He has become their burden, especially when his health deteriorated due to constant drinking.
He past away recently, leaving behind a pile of medical bills.
The moral of the story is don't take CPF for granted. You may not take all to the grave, but at least, you will not be a burden to your nok/kids.
I personally witnessed how some one splundered the money they got from downsizing... $80k in less than 2 years..not forgetting they have a 3.5k job..N plus they withdraw everything from their Cpf...got themselves new gfs. When I point out that they are splundering their money n lives away..just keep the money...Dun downsize..just rent out their roomy 5 room..they rebutted me that they are old Liao Will not live beyond 70..
These people are the same batch of people who kpkb against the government for locking up their funds. Now after getting their hands on their money liao...spent all no money liao..now blame government for othere.
No offense.. I feel the people who made the most noise are those financial not savvy people. Just want to spend.
Government well intentions are very misunderstood.
so you advocate punishing the multitudes for the sins of a few?
But honestly.. Looking at some blogger using this widely misunderstood system to stir sh*t...I think there will be overhaul how this safety net works.
Let's face it...sediments n irrational thinking overrules what's right..
and i believe that you and a few others in the thread are barking up the wrong tree too.
firstly, no one is calling for the CPF to be abolished. the main bugbear is the high-handed decision to impose an arbitary, vague, compulsory minimum-sum rule and the ever-escalating goal posts.
secondly, the government can easily devise an opt-in system. all the stories about people squandering their money away - these are the minority, rather than most
thirdly, CPF isn't the best system in the world. like ever other social systems, there are pros and cons. but to bask in the limelight of a lie and not keep updated with times, this is dangerous because you never know when your beloved cookie in the jar had turned rotten
so you advocate punishing the multitudes for the sins of a few?
since you brought up the word "sin", we all are being punished for the original sin yes?
......
firstly, no one is calling for the CPF to be abolished. the main bugbear is the high-handed decision to impose an arbitary, vague, compulsory minimum-sum rule and the ever-escalating goal posts......
http://www.tremeritus.com/2014/05/26/minister-tan-the-truth-about-our-cpf-minimum-sum/
can anyone fact check this? what was the life expectancy in 1955?
"When the British introduced the CPF scheme in 1955, we could withdraw all our savings at 55. Do we remember what our retirement age was then? It was 55. What was the life expectancy in 1955? It was about 60. Hence, what you withdrew at age 55 would have to last you for just a few years."
most people remember only one side of the equation, retirement at 1955.:rolleyes:
they forgot the other side of the equation, retire at 55, withdraw all the cpf and enjoy retirement for 5 years and die at 60.
to keep the minimum sum low, retire at 80, withdraw all the cpf and enjoy retirement for 5 years and die at 85.
since you brought up the word "sin", we all are being punished for the original sin yes?
are we going to talk about theology? while we suffer from the consequences of sin, there is redemption & hope in God
http://www.tremeritus.com/2014/05/26/minister-tan-the-truth-about-our-cpf-minimum-sum/
can anyone fact check this? what was the life expectancy in 1955?
"When the British introduced the CPF scheme in 1955, we could withdraw all our savings at 55. Do we remember what our retirement age was then? It was 55. What was the life expectancy in 1955? It was about 60. Hence, what you withdrew at age 55 would have to last you for just a few years."
most people remember only one side of the equation, retirement at 1955.:rolleyes:
they forgot the other side of the equation, retire at 55, withdraw all the cpf and enjoy retirement for 5 years and die at 60.
to keep the minimum sum low, retire at 80, withdraw all the cpf and enjoy retirement for 5 years and die at 85.
now again, for those who wants to keep their monies in CPF to earn interest and to provide for their retirement years, please go ahead.
like i have explained earlier, the bugbear is the lack of choice. since you mentioned about 'original sin', even God gave adam & eve a choice in the garden of eden too.
are we going to talk about theology? while we suffer from the consequences of sin, there is redemption & hope in God
the point you brought is multitudes being punished for the sins of the few.
A&E sin, we are punished. you can accept that.
a few wasted their CPF become dependents on the state, we are punished. you cannot accept that.
.....
like i have explained earlier, the bugbear is the lack of choice. since you mentioned about 'original sin', even God gave adam & eve a choice in the garden of eden too.
giving people choices without giving them understanding of the consequences of their choice taken is not very nice.
the point you brought is multitudes being punished for the sins of the few.
A&E sin, we are punished. you can accept that.
a few wasted their CPF become dependents on the state, we are punished. you cannot accept that.
giving people choices without giving them understanding of the consequences of their choice taken is not very nice.
the original sin is Adam & Eve's to bear, while my sins are for me to bear. rejecting this would be to reject my personal beliefs - i.e. wrong example used to bring across your point.
secondly, i advocate (and had been advocating) giving CPF holders power of choice and they be financially counselled accordingly. to deny people the right to handle their assets = draconian or worse, thievery
the original sin is Adam & Eve's to bear, while my sins are for me to bear. rejecting this would be to reject my personal beliefs - i.e. wrong example used to bring across your point.
secondly, i advocate (and had been advocating) giving CPF holders power of choice and they be financially counselled accordingly. to deny people the right to handle their assets = draconian or worse, thievery
somehow today i find myself not in the garden of eden and whose fault is that?
many times people tend to equate intelligence with wisdom and on many times intelligence does not equate to wisdom.
how many times have you counselled your kids and they still repeat their wrong doings?
i know i counselled/instructed/cajoled/scolded/even beat my kids and yet they still repeat their wrong doings :ashamed1:
somehow today i find myself not in the garden of eden and whose fault is that?
many times people tend to equate intelligence with wisdom and on many times intelligence does not equate to wisdom.
how many times have you counselled your kids and they still repeat their wrong doings?
i know i counselled/instructed/cajoled/scolded/even beat my kids and yet they still do the wrong stuff. :ashamed1:
that's why they are kids. You and i are not kids. :)
that's why they are kids. You and i are not kids. :)
age does not equate to wisdom too.
somehow today i find myself not in the garden of eden and whose fault is that?
many times people tend to equate intelligence with wisdom and on many times intelligence does not equate to wisdom.
how many times have you counselled your kids and they still repeat their wrong doings?
i know i counselled/instructed/cajoled/scolded/even beat my kids and yet they still repeat their wrong doings :ashamed1:
What you see as wrong doings, they may see as rite doings....
What some see as cpf is good, some see as bad...
What is correct is a perception of the mind....
somehow today i find myself not in the garden of eden and whose fault is that?
many times people tend to equate intelligence with wisdom and on many times intelligence does not equate to wisdom.
how many times have you counselled your kids and they still repeat their wrong doings?
i know i counselled/instructed/cajoled/scolded/even beat my kids and yet they still repeat their wrong doings :ashamed1:
wah, i don't comprehend your opening statement. that aside......
that is why kids aren't robots! for a period in life, parents can help make decisions for their kids but when the child grows up, he/she has to make his/her decisions.
e.g. smoking kills. does MOH make the decision for smokers and ban them from smoking? no. does MOH counsel and discourage them from smoking? yes.
wah, i don't comprehend your opening statement. that aside......
that is why kids aren't robots! for a period in life, parents can help make decisions for their kids but when the child grows up, he/she has to make his/her decisions.
e.g. smoking kills. does MOH make the decision for smokers and ban them from smoking? no. does MOH counsel and discourage them from smoking? yes.
What about chewing gum? Marijuana? Smoking in air-con? Can give us choices???
What about chewing gum? Marijuana? Smoking in air-con? Can give us choices???
chewing gum - please consult the daft scholars who proposed a blanket ban
marijuana - it's a drug for crying out loud! the society should be protected from such addictive substances
smoking in air-con places - look for the exit sign. smokers please just kill themselves and not subject others to second-hand smoke
What about chewing gum? Marijuana? Smoking in air-con? Can give us choices???
Yes of course smoke in your air-con car and air-con home. Can do it 24 hrs nobody stop you.
chewing gum - please consult the daft scholars who proposed a blanket ban
marijuana - it's a drug for crying out loud! the society should be protected from such addictive substances
smoking in air-con places - look for the exit sign. smokers please just kill themselves and not subject others to second-hand smoke
But people should be given choices leh.....
Those who don't smoke, stay away from smoker????
Marijuana allowed in certain states in us leh... So are some other drugs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_the_United_States
We are adults leh, we should be able to make our own choices...
Chewing gum - well, we can chew hear rite, so no problem... Hahahaha
Yes of course smoke in your air-con car and air-con home. Can do it 24 hrs nobody stop you.
Huh??? It should be equality rite???? Hahahahahaha
I kidding around lar.... I also think the banning of smoking in parks, air con building is good... But the poor smokers are complaining... S I empathize with them.... They are all shouting, where is the equality....
In this world, there is no such thing as EQUALITY, FAIRNESS.
we are all animals and in the past, the strongest will survive and weak will perish.... In today's world, is it the same????
But people should be given choices leh.....
Those who don't smoke, stay away from smoker????
Marijuana allowed in certain states in us leh... So are some other drugs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_the_United_States
We are adults leh, we should be able to make our own choices...
Chewing gum - well, we can chew hear rite, so no problem... Hahahaha
then let's ask - are societal norms in US applicable to Singapore? secondly, harm should be kept or removed from society, not the other way round. those who don't smoke or hate smoking will stay away from smokers. so, your point being?
then let's ask - are societal norms in US applicable to Singapore? secondly, harm should be kept or removed from society, not the other way round. those who don't smoke or hate smoking will stay away from smokers. so, your point being?
Do you have friends who smoke??? Do you hang around them???
Do you have friends who drive recklessly and u still are a passenger in the car??
Did you ever drink drive before???
Why when I compare us with Singapore, cannot???? But if compare social welfare of other countries with Singapore, can???? We choose what we want to compare??? The best, but not the worst???? What is good or bad is a perception of the mind of the individual....
To me, no one is wrong nor rite... Hahahaha... It is the perception of the individual that will determine rite from wrong...
Cheers... I am off to my pickup to catch a flight back to Singapore, my beloved country.... Every time I am overseas, I miss Singapore dearly....;)
Cheers.
Do you have friends who smoke??? Do you hang around them???
Do you have friends who drive recklessly and u still are a passenger in the car??
Did you ever drink drive before???
categorically, no to all.
secondly, what on earth has this got to do with the thread of discussion??? if you are trying to illustrate my point that we do have rights to make our decision, thanks then
.....
firstly, no one is calling for the CPF to be abolished. the main bugbear is the high-handed decision to impose an arbitary, vague, compulsory minimum-sum rule and the ever-escalating goal posts.
.....
that's because expected lifespan is ever escalating :)
Allthepies
06-06-14, 12:25
now again, for those who wants to keep their monies in CPF to earn interest and to provide for their retirement years, please go ahead.
like i have explained earlier, the bugbear is the lack of choice. since you mentioned about 'original sin', even God gave adam & eve a choice in the garden of eden too.
Giving people choice in itself may be harmful to others... please be careful what u wish for..
For the majority of forumers here who can manage money well, of course its good if we are given the choice to withdraw...but for the vast population, it is best to have some form of forced savings....
Giving people choice in itself may be harmful to others... please be careful what u wish for..
For the majority of forumers here who can manage money well, of course its good if we are given the choice to withdraw...but for the vast population, it is best to have some form of forced savings....
while i agree with your opening statement, i believe it applies more on decisions that impact those around you - e.g. smoking, gambling, murdering, etc etc. utilization of personal assets is a different matter as the act itself has little or no impact on the society at large. e.g. am i affected now by how the ultra-rich splurge on fast cars and fancy watches? nada, since they are spending their $$ after all.
secondly, there is already a savings system in place - CPF and i have no qualms about it. in fact, i am all for those, who aren't or worried they aren't able to manage their monies, to park their $$ in CPF.
thirdly, i abhor the "i-know-what's-best-and-i-run-your-life" approach. this is a slippery slope we are going down. an over-simplistic example - chicken rice is the best and most cost effective meal for you, so you can only eat chicken rice. will this work?
ok, let us assume that those who squandered away the cpf savings are the minority.
but cpf is afterall for retirement. how many of u here believe that the MAJORITY can achieve higher returns den what cpf give us?
if only minority can do it, the govt is actually doing good for majority of singaporeans.
ok, let us assume that those who squandered away the cpf savings are the minority.
but cpf is afterall for retirement. how many of u here believe that the MAJORITY can achieve higher returns den what cpf give us?
if only minority can do it, the govt is actually doing good for majority of singaporeans.
sometimes, it is not simply about whether as individuals, they can optimise the returns on their cpf more effectively den the board itself.
it is about having the freedom to decide for yourself; being able to have the final say as to wat u believe is the best investment strategy which suits yr own needs.
machiam u give yr wifey $1000 family allowance n dictates but dictates exactly how much she shd spend on wat n on where :doh:
tdsr oso liddat. now, they even wanna hv a say on how u spend yr salary! :mad: :doh:
sometimes, it is not simply about whether as individuals, they can optimise the returns on their cpf more effectively den the board itself.
it is about having the freedom to decide for yourself; being able to have the final say as to wat u believe is the best investment strategy which suits yr own needs.
machiam u give yr wifey $1000 family allowance n dictates but dictates exactly how much she shd spend on wat n on where :doh:
tdsr oso liddat. now, they even wanna hv a say on how u spend yr salary! :mad: :doh:
of course u have the freedom to decide how to spend ur money, but only after u have set aside a minimum sum for retirement ma..:D:D
to be realistic, got money got freedom, no money, or money not enough.......:beats-me-man:
of course u have the freedom to decide how to spend ur money, but only after u have set aside a minimum sum for retirement ma..:D:D
to be realistic, got money got freedom, no money, or money not enough.......:beats-me-man:
sir, I hv alrdy met my MS for both special n medisave acct and can retire any time ... can I withdraw all my OA liao? :doh:
sir, I hv alrdy met my MS for both special n medisave acct and can retire any time ... can I withdraw all my OA liao? :doh:
mdm, ic pls.. u look too young to be 55...
mdm, ic pls.. u look too young to be 55...
tat's the problem.
u wanna set MS, no prob ... how come meet liao still wanna tahan the excess amt till 55? :doh:
if we haven meet MS, den llst bo wei gong ... but met liao still kena tahan is :simmering:
is machiam next time yr daughter grow up liao u said she muz give 50% of her salary to u, the rest she can keep.
but she heng heng found a 10k job n u eyes green she got 5k to spend den restrict her spending?!!!! :beats-me-man:
tat's the problem.
u wanna set MS, no prob ... how come meet liao still wanna tahan the excess amt till 55? :doh:
if we haven meet MS, den llst bo wei gong ... but met liao still kena tahan is :simmering:
is machiam next time yr daughter grow up liao u said she muz give 50% of her salary to u, the rest she can keep.
but she heng heng found a 10k job n u eyes green she got 5k to spend den restrict her spending?!!!! :beats-me-man:
u this type got xtra money one is not govt's target la... most pple will use the money to buy property anyway.
it is about having the freedom to decide for yourself; being able to have the final say as to ....
haiz... Just think for one moment on this : this CPF is a tax, not really your money. It just so happens you are allowed to have a claim on this and can actually use it, albeit with this and that restrictions.
It is the gov who has the freedom to decide how to use the tax money. Allowing you to use to buy house is one of them. Another one is to buy an annuity for you. Third buying a medical insurance for you.
You have to get over this "why I cannot use my money" mindset, as this is not your real money. This whole CPF thing is designed to have the feature of a pension, but not the problem of it. It operates collectively as a pension, but individual has physical claims on his own so no free loaders. And the gov is relieved of future liabilities by design, which is the best feature (today all western world are facing the eventual bankruptcy of their pension system). And exactly because of these features, CPF needs this and that restrictions, which are necessary to function collectively.
And please, even with this and that restrictions, do ppl manage to use CPF effectively ? Most ppl in this forum do, including you. Are you *really* complaining ? Or just complain for fun ?
On the other hand, rate of return issue is separate. But gov hand is tied. ECB just cut eurozone rate to negative. How do you deliver a high yield in this environment ?? To complain is easy. To deliver 100bps over benchmark is what ppl are asking. How to get it on 300bln size ? Today ppl mortgage rate is only < 100bps spread. Be fair to the gov.
CPF is nothing lor.
How come no one ask how our reserves are accumulated and used?
Our CPF pay HDB a big portion goes into reserves. Developers bid for land majority also into reserves. As far as I know.
How are these allocated and spent? Nobody knows actually.
Those who want to withdraw cpf early, will you ever get your wish??? What are you doing about it??? Hyperventilating here, will your voice be heard??? Are you just speaking aloud???? Are you frustrated having your wish not granted???? How long have you been frustrated???? What are you doing to make that change???
:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
im not complaining for the fun of it. I am voicing out how i feel.
of cos, to make oneself feel better, he can treat the 20% as not his $.
I supppose many realised tat, no matter how much they say, it is not gg to hv any impact.
so, many chose to migrate.
haiz... Just think for one moment on this : this CPF is a tax, not really your money. It just so happens you are allowed to have a claim on this and can actually use it, albeit with this and that restrictions.
It is the gov who has the freedom to decide how to use the tax money. Allowing you to use to buy house is one of them. Another one is to buy an annuity for you. Third buying a medical insurance for you.
You have to get over this "why I cannot use my money" mindset, as this is not your real money. This whole CPF thing is designed to have the feature of a pension, but not the problem of it. It operates collectively as a pension, but individual has physical claims on his own so no free loaders. And the gov is relieved of future liabilities by design, which is the best feature (today all western world are facing the eventual bankruptcy of their pension system). And exactly because of these features, CPF needs this and that restrictions, which are necessary to function collectively.
And please, even with this and that restrictions, do ppl manage to use CPF effectively ? Most ppl in this forum do, including you. Are you *really* complaining ? Or just complain for fun ?
On the other hand, rate of return issue is separate. But gov hand is tied. ECB just cut eurozone rate to negative. How do you deliver a high yield in this environment ?? To complain is easy. To deliver 100bps over benchmark is what ppl are asking. How to get it on 300bln size ? Today ppl mortgage rate is only < 100bps spread. Be fair to the gov.
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can anyone fact check this? what was the life expectancy in 1955?
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistics/visualising_data/chart/Life_Expectancy_At_Birth.html
Life expectancy at birth for Year 1957, male: 60, female: 63.
So the "average" male should disappear by Year 2017, female by Year 2020.
If one lives beyond that, he/she will have problem for any system designed based on life expectancy.
So just buy FREEHOLD property la.
For those born in 1955, with a life expectancy of 60 years. The "average" ones should disappear by 2015.
The problem is "average". How about the other half who will still be around?
If medicine develops and the average Joe can live into age 120, what will happen when we are age 100?
Don't be so confident that you will not live that long.
Those who jumped the floor at age 95 might though they could only live until 63 when they were young.
So FREEHOLD is the worry free way to go.
CPF should be reverted back to it's original intent of the 50s and 60s, and that is savings for retirement only. This means people cannot use CPF to pay for any property like in the past. This will lead to home prices dropping to much more affordable level for Singaporeans with less income spent on their homes and a lot more income saved in their CPF for retirement.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistics/visualising_data/chart/Life_Expectancy_At_Birth.html
Life expectancy at birth for Year 1957, male: 60, female: 63.
So the "average" male should disappear by Year 2017, female by Year 2020.
If one lives beyond that, he/she will have problem for any system designed based on life expectancy.
So just buy FREEHOLD property la.
thank you for fact checking.
in 1955, cpf assumed people live to 60 because perhaps in 1950, most people who born in 1890 died in 1950, so they take life expectancy as 60yo in 1955 when they formulate cpf.
life expectancy is kinda of backward looking. can only know after it happens.
hard to predict what is the life expectancy for people born in 2014.
what do you with freehold property?
CPF should be reverted back to it's original intent of the 50s and 60s, and that is savings for retirement only. This means people cannot use CPF to pay for any property like in the past. This will lead to home prices dropping to much more affordable level for Singaporeans with less income spent on their homes and a lot more income saved in their CPF for retirement.
oso can lor, den hdb prices oso revert to thousands, bak chor mee $1, bus fare 10¢ etc :D
liddat 99% of singaporeans can retire immed liao, muahaha :D
CPF should be reverted back to it's original intent of the 50s and 60s, and that is savings for retirement only. This means people cannot use CPF to pay for any property like in the past. This will lead to home prices dropping to much more affordable level for Singaporeans with less income spent on their homes and a lot more income saved in their CPF for retirement.
Ya...then half the. Population. No need to work.
Deflation sets in...N economy tanks...
I used to ask myself how n why Cpf is founded.. Until some very wise n well read forummer shared videos n rise n fail of a country...N setting up similar funds is to kick start the ailing economy.
N countries all over the world have done similar initiatives like this..under the guise of different names.
I m very humbled after knowing all these..it's not easy.to run a country.
haiz... Just think for one moment on this : this CPF is a tax, not really your money. It just so happens you are allowed to have a claim on this and can actually use it, albeit with this and that restrictions.
It is the gov who has the freedom to decide how to use the tax money. Allowing you to use to buy house is one of them. Another one is to buy an annuity for you. Third buying a medical insurance for you.
You have to get over this "why I cannot use my money" mindset, as this is not your real money. This whole CPF thing is designed to have the feature of a pension, but not the problem of it. It operates collectively as a pension, but individual has physical claims on his own so no free loaders. And the gov is relieved of future liabilities by design, which is the best feature (today all western world are facing the eventual bankruptcy of their pension system). And exactly because of these features, CPF needs this and that restrictions, which are necessary to function collectively.
And please, even with this and that restrictions, do ppl manage to use CPF effectively ? Most ppl in this forum do, including you. Are you *really* complaining ? Or just complain for fun ?
On the other hand, rate of return issue is separate. But gov hand is tied. ECB just cut eurozone rate to negative. How do you deliver a high yield in this environment ?? To complain is easy. To deliver 100bps over benchmark is what ppl are asking. How to get it on 300bln size ? Today ppl mortgage rate is only < 100bps spread. Be fair to the gov.
Yes I agree.
Those who complain.. So what will you do with it anyway? Buy property n inflate the property market?
I asked the same qns to those.seniors who complained...
You know what their answer is??
Buy car! Go shopping go trips..
Buy mistress.. Go gamble.. Enjoy life!
You think they will say...I go find a better returns for. My money?
N to add on when you manage a country..you look at the entire picture...
You have to weigh the risks of doing so.
Imagine that the population is aging.. The cost of supporting these aging people went up.
Now complicate this issue with issues of non financially savvy.. Or people who don't bother to spend prudently..leaving them selves no savings..who have to pay these costs of supporting them?
When your reply is government support them lor...that means it will be us..the tax payers money!
N look at the trends.. Younger people more cc debts..spend more instead of save more...you think we as a whole as a country...giving people such choices is a good idea?
Just like freedom to.have arms...what's the pros n cons?
Ultimately we or our children will bare the costs.
For me I personally feel the risks outweighs the advantages..
N those who complain non stop of not giving choices..
If you come up.a more brilliant solutions to this as a nation...do share lor. N don't come up with something like we try out n see if this works..if doesn't work as you imagine..is it possible for the nation to recover from bad decisions??
What I hate when I talk to my people who complain this that etc.. Is that they complian without giving recommendations..
Whenever I ask them so what's the best way to resolve the issue at hand if they don't like my solution...I m honestly open to any suggestions..
*cricket sound*
I am voicing out how i feel.
of cos, to make oneself feel better, he can treat the 20% as not his $.
You are not getting what I meant. It is not about "how to feel good". I wanted to tell you your perception of CPF is wrong. CPF is our way of pension contribution but with an individual claim. And it helps a fragile gov like ours to survive AND last. You have to see the bigger picture.
Actually another good thing about CPF is we can use it to buy houses, pay medical bills and education. Govt is helping us to set aside only but keep increasing min sum like a bit :( and before we turn 55 yrs old, we can't withdraw our money if we really need it.
IMHO, most people can afford using CPF to buy houses but not much people can afford or willing to use their cash to buy houses especailly the low or average income owners. Same logic might go to medical or education, if you see your bank accounts keep depleting, you will feel the pinch but not the CPF account.
You are not getting what I meant. It is not about "how to feel good". I wanted to tell you your perception of CPF is wrong. CPF is our way of pension contribution but with an individual claim. And it helps a fragile gov like ours to survive AND last. You have to see the bigger picture.
I am not disputing how u (or govt) wanna perceive the whole cpf scheme. neither am i advocating tat it feels gd to be able to opt out of cpf. Im saying, everyone shd be given a choice. y must it be mandatory?
juz like tdsr.
if a person feels shiok using 99% of his salary to finance ppty, tat is his biz. he is responsible for his own actions. he dun need another person to tell or restrict him tat he can oni use 60% :doh:Yu
Actually another good thing about CPF is we can use it to buy houses ...
The alternative is to do away with OA contribution. So you can use CASH to buy houses.
The real gap is to contribute to employment insurance. So once you lost your job, you can still get 75% last drawn salary for 2 years. That will stimulate creativity and risk taking.
what do you with freehold property?
Just talked to a medical profession, the theoretical life span could eventually be close to infinite. (cells just reproduce themselves without cancers.)
So to match that longevity, the best is to own self funding assets: freehold property could be one, inflation indexed perpetuate bond can be another, a basket of yield generating stocks could be yet another.
well when the people become desperate they resort to vice then it starts to matters.
So u mean when they are only put to jail then govt start feeding them?
Since only Lao tiko got cheated. Then these people money should be locked till age 100. let the ladies have back their cpf by 55. Thank you very much.
So u mean when they are only put to jail then govt start feeding them?
When they start robbing wont it be a deterioration in social order? when people are in desperation they will do anything.
Those people who say let them draw all their money at 55. if they waste it all its their par say are just dreaming.
Agree. And there are other countries trying to study our CPF system and want to know and learn how it works. I wouldn't say that it is the best or flawless but it is working for our society at the moment. It is always easy to grumble, complain and criticize. But are there any better options or alternatives to manage CPF system which is rationale and will benefit the society? We need people to give solutions and not people who only know how to bark.
Because this scheme is a successfully money making business for every countries to learn.
Since only Lao tiko got cheated. Then these people money should be locked till age 100. let the ladies have back their cpf by 55. Thank you very much.
lao tiko spend money on young chicks... lao tibu spend money pull skin...
:D:D
Since only Lao tiko got cheated. Then these people money should be locked till age 100. let the ladies have back their cpf by 55. Thank you very much.
juz castrate them den they wun get cheated liao lah muahaha :D
55 den can get back cpf is too long leh .... haiz ..... not much time left to enjoy life :(
lao tiko spend money on young chicks... lao tibu spend money pull skin...
:D:D
But all the stories only on Lao tiko. So not only lock their money, must lock them up till 90 age old. Because one day they will still get back their cpf n they will still spend on chicks.
lao tiko spend money on young chicks... lao tibu spend money pull skin...
:D:D
aiyo, they oso nid to spend quite a lot on ducks leh .... those young n handsome n mouth sweet sweet one jin exp wor! :scared-5:
When they start robbing wont it be a deterioration in social order? when people are in desperation they will do anything.
Those people who say let them draw all their money at 55. if they waste it all its their par say are just dreaming.
Last time can take back by age 55. What's the crime rate that time? We must learn from history.
juz castrate them den they wun get cheated liao lah muahaha :D
55 den can get back cpf is too long leh .... haiz ..... not much time left to enjoy life :(
.... if u gua gua at 80years old..u got 25years to enjoy... i only scared u not enough money to enjoy life...
.... if u gua gua at 80years old..u got 25years to enjoy... i only scared u not enough money to enjoy life...
aiyo, at tat time lao kok kok aldy ... wats the point of having so much $?
u dun tell me at 70yo u still got the stamina to go n cheong? or 泡妞? :tongue3:
Ya...then half the. Population. No need to work.
Deflation sets in...N economy tanks...
I used to ask myself how n why Cpf is founded.. Until some very wise n well read forummer shared videos n rise n fail of a country...N setting up similar funds is to kick start the ailing economy.
N countries all over the world have done similar initiatives like this..under the guise of different names.
I m very humbled after knowing all these..it's not easy.to run a country.
What do you mean by half the population no need to work? People still need to work to pay for their housing and their retirement fund. But the great thing is that less of their income will go to housing and more income will go to their CPF retirement savings. And with larger CPF retirement savings, people will have be able to retire more comfortably when they grow old.
The original CPF did well for the past generation, reverting back to the original CPF will also do well for the next generations.
What do you mean by half the population no need to work? People still need to work to pay for their housing and their retirement fund. But the great thing is that less of their income will go to housing and more income will go to their CPF retirement savings. And with larger CPF retirement savings, people will have be able to retire more comfortably when they grow old.
The original CPF did well for the past generation, reverting back to the original CPF will also do well for the next generations.
Sorry my reply was aimed at the following: "oso can lor, den hdb prices oso revert to thousands, bak chor mee $1, bus fare 10¢ etc
liddat 99% of singaporeans can retire immed liao, muahaha
__________________"
Yes I agree.
Those who complain.. So what will you do with it anyway? Buy property n inflate the property market?
I asked the same qns to those.seniors who complained...
You know what their answer is??
Buy car! Go shopping go trips..
Buy mistress.. Go gamble.. Enjoy life!
You think they will say...I go find a better returns for. My money?
indeed, i will say tat :)
I can invest my money better den u.
btw, u r generalising aldy. not all ppl r 败家子.
Singapore need more of this "productive people".
On Benefits & Proud - Channel 5 Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LerbK2ftcfE
Last time can take back by age 55. What's the crime rate that time? We must learn from history.
Last time no QE. Well last time when? how many people hitting 55? the wave of people hitting 55 is going to peak ard 2020. and by 2030 60.
Well there are those who are haev taken back at 55. and we are seeing some of them already run into problem and are dependent on thier kids.
My Father now 80 years old staying in the second prison after staying in my 5 room HDB (First prison) for less than a year.
He got a two stoke and ICU twice.
25 years ago he was 55 years old.
He took his CPF with no minimum sum.
My mother very worry, quickly think of a way to stop him from spending.
My grandmother have a second stroke and my mother get my father to buy a 3 room HDB with the CPF money to house my grandmother.
3 room HDB in 1989 is SGD 25,000.
Now I want to buy a 3 room HDB for my parent it cost SGD 300,000.
well my parents took all out some amount out at 55. the remaining payout is just finished when they are 70.
My dad lost all his $ in 10yrs in some so call venture with friends. at some pt only left $100 in the bank and he was worried abt how to contuine going.
He manage to pick up the pieces after he found a job and luckly my mother is a saver.
And they are lucky I am supporting them on their day to day living cost. but life have to take a cut back when you are depending on your kids.
I see my uncle are not so lucky. and the other oldies who mis managed their $ when they got it all at 55.
Well there are those who did well. but equally there are those who really F it up with $ on hands suddenly.
indeed, i will say tat :)
I can invest my money better den u.
btw, u r generalising aldy. not all ppl r 败家子.
How many people are like you who can invest better than the government?
How many percent? or we go by the 80 20 rule?
Of course not all people 败家子. What if 80 percent are 败家子? If not, how many percentage is deemed ok for the government take the risk?
The alternative is to do away with OA contribution. So you can use CASH to buy houses.
The real gap is to contribute to employment insurance. So once you lost your job, you can still get 75% last drawn salary for 2 years. That will stimulate creativity and risk taking.
What happen if people use their creativity mind by doing some mischievous act and force the employer to sack them?
well my parents took all out some amount out at 55. the remaining payout is just finished when they are 70.
My dad lost all his $ in 10yrs in some so call venture with friends. at some pt only left $100 in the bank and he was worried abt how to contuine going.
He manage to pick up the pieces after he found a job and luckly my mother is a saver.
And they are lucky I am supporting them on their day to day living cost. but life have to take a cut back when you are depending on your kids.
I see my uncle are not so lucky. and the other oldies who mis managed their $ when they got it all at 55.
Well there are those who did well. but equally there are those who really F it up with $ on hands suddenly.
Agree, my family has 1 such case, once he collected the cpf money, all gone within a year and the amt is not small. Better buy a ppty instead if the CPF amt is substantial.
But it could be also that a person might not have a chance to enjoy his hard-earned CPF money, either he dies before his retirement age or he get a stroke.
My retired uncle used his CPF to help his son to buy his 1st house for his marriage and registered under his son's name. He then stayed with them. Few years later, his son wanted to S E L L this house back to my uncle because he wanted to shift out.:doh:
I am wondering, we are "importing" so many people at one go, does it means that we will have more retired people almost at the same time?
What happen if people use their creativity mind by doing some mischievous act and force the employer to sack them?
So ever time work 2-3 mths try to get fried . Then 2 yrs song song later find another job n do it again. Huat ah no need to do real work for life !
indeed, i will say tat :)
I can invest my money better den u.
btw, u r generalising aldy. not all ppl r 败家子.
This is precisely the me only thinking attitude that our nation has fallen to such desolate state.
The consequences of what you wish for , Choice, with the assumption that most people will make the wise decision as you, is far reaching and our next generation will bore the blunt of the consequences.
With aging population and increasingly volatile and uncertain world, any bad policy decisions will mean repercussions for generations to come.
Should the time come...and if you have children, you better pray that the rest do invest their money better than you.
Talking about choice.
Since we assume that people are wise enough to make their own decisions, Governement shouldn't take such a stern stance against having Casino in Singapore...or even in neighbourhood places for all that matter.
Anyway, our assumption is that most people will make wise decisions with their money right?
They will only gamble a bit in the Casino.
They will only invest a bit in stocks, property etc you named it.
They will only spend a bit on their mistresses, gfs etc.
They will only spend a bit overseas, expensive food etc.
Anyway its their money we are talking about here, wtf should government intervene? And give 2.5% or 4%?
We are talking about very investment savvy chaps (aunties uncles who don't even know how to use forums, FB, twitter etc) who probably can get returns on 6% 8% or even 10% returns with their money!
Lets forget about higher risks and higher returns rule for the moment and focus on choice! Or while they are still old but not that old lar, their investment horizon is long enough for them to recover whatever the risks they take.
Let them have the choice they want! Let us see how our nation would prosper! :cheers1:
Interesting that people want choice. When they f it up no choice then it's garmen they turn to. N that garmen must have choice ready for them.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv7son5p1w01vj0/2014-06-08%2008.35.26.jpg
And people kpkb say I want all my $$ at 55. This will happen n then ? Who must come to rescue again ?
How many people are like you who can invest better than the government?
How many percent? or we go by the 80 20 rule?
Of course not all people 败家子. What if 80 percent are 败家子? If not, how many percentage is deemed ok for the government take the risk?
it does not matter whether the extent of 败家子 is 20% or 80%. at the end of the day, a std procedure will be unfair to those who can tink wisely.
This is precisely the me only thinking attitude that our nation has fallen to such desolate state.
The consequences of what you wish for , Choice, with the assumption that most people will make the wise decision as you, is far reaching and our next generation will bore the blunt of the consequences.
With aging population and increasingly volatile and uncertain world, any bad policy decisions will mean repercussions for generations to come.
Should the time come...and if you have children, you better pray that the rest do invest their money better than you.
wake up!
stop expecting the govt to spoonfeed us n our next generation!
govt though highly paid, dun owe us anything! they hv no obligation to plan for our every needs from young to old!
singaporeans r too pampered & dependant on the govt on everything tats y govt hv to chup one leg in everything we do! :doh:
it does not matter whether the extent of 败家子 is 20% or 80%. at the end of the day, a std procedure will be unfair to those who can tink wisely.
wake up!
stop expecting the govt to spoonfeed us n our next generation!
govt though highly paid, dun owe us anything! they hv no obligation to plan for our every needs from young to old!
singaporeans r too pampered & dependant on the govt on everything tats y govt hv to chup one leg in everything we do! :doh:
I think you missed the whole point n the entire picture.
what th ey meant is social stability.
If those have kids their children too bad lor. Their kids have to take care of their children plus their parents debts n livelihood.
Those no kids either have to work or beg n roam the streets.
I think its very naive to think that when that happens..our society is not affected.
There are so many documentaries on that. Many countries hope to avoid such a situation. It hurts social fabric economy and so on.
Or maybe ask you this... When the time happens..what do you think will happen? More beggars? More suicides?
Interesting that people want choice. When they f it up no choice then it's garmen they turn to. N that garmen must have choice ready for them.
Every choice comes with consequences.
Consequences of the over 4 million people..how many will act responsibly when they get their hands on Cpf...how many will not?
Collectively if they didn't..what's the outcome of our nation?
How many here think they will not be affected when the time comes.
Becareful of what you wish for.
Of course if given the choice I would prefer to manage the Cpf myself. But when I see how many couldn't or have no knowledge.. N the dire consequences it will bring as a nature. I think rather not.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv7son5p1w01vj0/2014-06-08%2008.35.26.jpg
And people kpkb say I want all my $$ at 55. This will happen n then ? Who must come to rescue again ?
There will be more such stories in future.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv7son5p1w01vj0/2014-06-08%2008.35.26.jpg
And people kpkb say I want all my $$ at 55. This will happen n then ? Who must come to rescue again ?
My mum very frustrated whenever she goes to renew her deposit..there will always be cashers bankers hounding her to invest into structured deposit stocks etc.
Last time she was taken in n invested into something she had no idea wth is it..lost a lot of money.:simmering:
Now my instructions to her simple...never do anything when I m not around.
ask them to call me.I will always scold them; my mum so old Liao..wtf make them think she should venture into such high risks???
And the answer simple. The cashers n banks made the most commission. Do they care if the money they pursuaded my mum to part with is her only money?!
I think you missed the whole point n the entire picture.
what th ey meant is social stability.
If those have kids their children too bad lor. Their kids have to take care of their children plus their parents debts n livelihood.
Those no kids either have to work or beg n roam the streets.
I think its very naive to think that when that happens..our society is not affected.
There are so many documentaries on that. Many countries hope to avoid such a situation. It hurts social fabric economy and so on.
Or maybe ask you this... When the time happens..what do you think will happen? More beggars? More suicides?
I.think the answer is obvious. Their problems not my problem. They should look for the government!!
Swiss voters have overwhelmingly rejected a proposal to introduce what would have been the highest minimum wage in the world in a referendum. They felt it this move will hurt the nation as a whole increase unemployment.
I m humbled by the out come... This will not happen in Singapore.
... a std procedure will be unfair to those who can tink wisely.
Of course it's unfair. The rules are there to help the weaker ones.
And pls dun assume you are smarter than the gov. Things like TDSR is there for a reason. What do you know about our banking system ? Do you know the risk of excessive exposure on pty loan book to a bank , and to the economy ? It's not just about you.
singaporeans r too pampered & dependant on the govt on everything tats y govt hv to chup one leg in everything we do! :doh:
Funny you are complaining because the gov did not give you complete freedom, aren't you ? Who is the one being "dependent" and expecting the gov to help here ?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4fvcsqz52ivoa0/2014-06-08%2008.35.jpg
repost a proper version
Of course it's unfair. The rules are there to help the weaker ones.
And pls dun assume you are smarter than the gov. Things like TDSR is there for a reason. What do you know about our banking system ? Do you know the risk of excessive exposure on pty loan book to a bank , and to the economy ? It's not just about you.
Funny you are complaining because the gov did not give you complete freedom, aren't you ? Who is the one being "dependent" and expecting the gov to help here ?
It the me me me only thinking
thinking thinking. I m not surprised by the responses
Ultimately the actions of others will hurt you too.
We are all connected to one another like it or not.
Just like singapore is connected to the rest of the damn world.
It's pity that many fail to realise that!
I.think the answer is obvious. Their problems not my problem. They should look for the government!!.
Exactly.
Actually it will be "your" problem: "beggars", "suicides", sure none of your business; how about robbers ?! Or as a result of parent's failure, children growing up severely deprived of peroper upbringing, what do you think they will do ? "rags to riches" story, or more into vices ?! Can your children, boys and girls, still walk around freely at night everywhere ?
To run a country is not at all easy.
Of course it's unfair. The rules are there to help the weaker ones.
And pls dun assume you are smarter than the gov. Things like TDSR is there for a reason. What do you know about our banking system ? Do you know the risk of excessive exposure on pty loan book to a bank , and to the economy ? It's not just about you.
Funny you are complaining because the gov did not give you complete freedom, aren't you ? Who is the one being "dependent" and expecting the gov to help here ?
1. i did not say/imply/hint/suggest tat the govt is smarter den me or vice versa. pls do not put words into my post.
2. i did not say tdsr is there without a reason or tdsr lacks prudency. do not assume tat others r daft.
3. show wif concrete evidence to illustrate tat i expect to rely on the govt. else, refrain fm making malicious assumptions abt me simply to prove tat u r rite.
It the me me me only thinking
thinking thinking. I m not surprised by the responses
Ultimately the actions of others will hurt you too.
We are all connected to one another like it or not.
Just like singapore is connected to the rest of the damn world.
It's pity that many fail to realise that!
Maybe watch too much movies recently - I suddenly think of Spider-Man who didn't stop the robber who ended up killing his uncle and x-men. Maybe next time we can go back to the past and correct those mistakes lol..... And then there will be no such thread ;)
Maybe watch too much movies recently - I suddenly think of Spider-Man who didn't stop the robber who ended up killing his uncle and x-men. Maybe next time we can go back to the past and correct those mistakes lol..... And then there will be no such thread ;)
Bingo!
Haha the theme "we are connected to each other like it or not" or "one actions will impact another indirectly" is a popular recurring theme in movies.
Maybe take this thread as an example...One person failure due to his or her misuse of cpf lead to harm or etc to someone's ( who advocate the freedom to use of CPF) relatives or children.
To have such naive thinking n mindset it's their problem is dangerous.
That's what I kept saying becareful of what you wish for. ;)
1. i did not say/imply/hint/suggest tat the govt is smarter den me or vice versa. pls do not put words into my post.
2. i did not say tdsr is there without a reason or tdsr lacks prudency. do not assume tat others r daft.
3. show wif concrete evidence to illustrate tat i expect to rely on the govt. else, refrain fm making malicious assumptions abt me simply to prove tat u r rite.
TDSR... What's your stand...do you advocate or against it?
My mum very frustrated whenever she goes to renew her deposit..there will always be cashers bankers hounding her to invest into structured deposit stocks etc.
Last time she was taken in n invested into something she had no idea wth is it..lost a lot of money.:simmering:
Now my instructions to her simple...never do anything when I m not around.
ask them to call me.I will always scold them; my mum so old Liao..wtf make them think she should venture into such high risks???
And the answer simple. The cashers n banks made the most commission. Do they care if the money they pursuaded my mum to part with is her only money?!
Agree, I'm also very easily persuaded by the bankers.:D When the bankers are nice and helpful to me, most of the time I will buy:banghead: This moment, this banker asked me to invest, 1 year later, another banker asked me to sell and buy another one, in the end, I also lose money. So now I was telling to myself, don't believe 100% what the bankers say, afterall it is not their money, what they want is to meet their targets. Actually, a bit of lost confidence in this bank liao. Previously bought a "xxxxx" from them, but I only received 1st year interest and the rest of 4 years no interest at all.:mad: The only lucky thing was I get back my principal amount.
indeed, i will say tat :)
I can invest my money better den u.
btw, u r generalising aldy. not all ppl r 败家子.
I m keen to know what makes you so sure you invest your money better than I did?
Agree, I'm also very easily persuaded by the bankers.:D When the bankers are nice and helpful to me, most of the time I will buy:banghead: This moment, this banker asked me to invest, 1 year later, another banker asked me to sell and buy another one, in the end, I also lose money. So now I was telling to myself, don't believe 100% what the bankers say, afterall it is not their money, what they want is to meet their targets. Actually, a bit of lost confidence in this bank liao. Previously bought a "xxxxx" from them, but I only received 1st year interest and the rest of 4 years no interest at all.:mad: The only lucky thing was I get back my principal amount.
You very lucky.I m sure there are many others not as lucky.
You very lucky.I m sure there are many others not as lucky.
Because that's a principle guaranteed investment lor. Now I only buy principle guranteed investment, cannot afford to take the risk anymore.:tsk-tsk:
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/more-singapore-stories/story/1m-gone-2-years-widow-now-broke-20140608
What will happen if can withdraw one shot all the money? Probably buy many lorries.
I don't even trust myself with money sometimes.
So now how?
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/more-singapore-stories/story/1m-gone-2-years-widow-now-broke-20140608
What will happen if can withdraw one shot all the money? Probably buy many lorries.
I don't even trust myself with money sometimes.
So now how?
Give me lemme I help u.:D
Give me lemme I help u.:D
Can, 6% per annum.
Sign up at kelong_ahlong.com.
All bankers have quota to meet every month. It is better you buy from them than to buy from someone else. You can consider Eastspring M class with monthly payout of 0.004cent for every unit. Returns is about 5%. Price has been hovering between 0.98 and 1.13 in the last 3 years.
Agree, I'm also very easily persuaded by the bankers.:D When the bankers are nice and helpful to me, most of the time I will buy:banghead: This moment, this banker asked me to invest, 1 year later, another banker asked me to sell and buy another one, in the end, I also lose money. So now I was telling to myself, don't believe 100% what the bankers say, afterall it is not their money, what they want is to meet their targets. Actually, a bit of lost confidence in this bank liao. Previously bought a "xxxxx" from them, but I only received 1st year interest and the rest of 4 years no interest at all.:mad: The only lucky thing was I get back my principal amount.
Maybe those who choose to withdraw at age 55, should sign a indemnity like they die their business, they no money their business, they sick their business.
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/more-singapore-stories/story/1m-gone-2-years-widow-now-broke-20140608
What will happen if can withdraw one shot all the money? Probably buy many lorries.
I don't even trust myself with money sometimes.
So now how?
IMHO, I think those people who never see so much money in their life, will tend to spend without much restriction if they are given a lump sum of money at one go because they have so many things in mind to buy and enjoy. I'm not talking about the above pitiful family, I pity her for her ignorance. I wonder if CPF is not compulsory, don't know what will Singapore be in the future. With lots of old people begging at the street or depending on their children? Not everybody has the capability of managing their own money.
IMHO, I think those people who never see so much money in their life, will tend to spend without much restriction if they are given a lump sum of money at one go because they have so many things in mind to buy and enjoy. I'm not talking about the above pitiful family, I pity her for her ignorance. I wonder if CPF is not compulsory, don't know what will Singapore be in the future. With lots of old people begging at the street or depending on their children? Not everybody has the capability of managing their own money.
The irony is that those people who have been most vocal about taking all CPF out are probably the group of people who need to have minimum sum imposed on them more than anyone else.
condoviewer
08-06-14, 14:55
Maybe those who choose to withdraw at age 55, should sign a indemnity like they die their business, they no money their business, they sick their business.
Not that easy to wash your hands off citizens.
Opportunists and activists will use these people to score political points and cause chaos and division.
TDSR... What's your stand...do you advocate or against it?
be it cpf MS or tdsr, i am not saying tat such policies r wrong. i juz feel tat it shd not blindly be applied across everyone without examining their savings or repayment ability.
u tink as long one abide the 60% rule he will be safe?
wat a joke!
in time of crisis tell me who is more risk prone here?
A oni loan 50% of his salary but wif totally no cash reserves or buffer, vs B who is 80% leverage but hv say a few hundred k of reserves?
I m keen to know what makes you so sure you invest your money better than I did?
the 'u' here refers to returns generated via $ being locked up in cpf, not u leh zzzz...
i dun tink im gd in investing! My strength is in savings! :D
I think the big mistake of the govt was to change the rules to allow CPF to be used to buy private property and resale HDB. Now more than 50% of the people cannot meet minimum sum and it's mostly due to property.
In the CPF review, the govt should be reducing significantly the amount people can take out from their CPF to buy private property and resale HDB, and saving more of their income for their CPF retirement savings.
Singaporeans' household debt is now 75% of GDP and mortgage debt is now a historic high 45% of GDP under the current low mortgage rate, and this debt is still growing especially when interest rates goes up. Singaporeans are highly leverage. To reduce the debt level, the govt will not remove the CMs until the interest rates goes up and property prices drop significantly.
be it cpf MS or tdsr, i am not saying tat such policies r wrong. i juz feel tat it shd not blindly be applied across everyone without examining their savings or repayment ability.
u tink as long one abide the 60% rule he will be safe?
wat a joke!
in time of crisis tell me who is more risk prone here?
A oni loan 50% of his salary but wif totally no cash reserves or buffer, vs B who is 80% leverage but hv say a few hundred k of reserves?
So do u advocate it?
be it cpf MS or tdsr, i am not saying tat such policies r wrong. i juz feel tat it shd not blindly be applied across everyone without examining their savings or repayment ability.
u tink as long one abide the 60% rule he will be safe?
wat a joke!
in time of crisis tell me who is more risk prone here?
A oni loan 50% of his salary but wif totally no cash reserves or buffer, vs B who is 80% leverage but hv say a few hundred k of reserves?
How to make exceptions n selective on people base on the skill sets? Look at the mini bond case . Those are suppose to be aunties who are savy n unsavy. When all kana overnight all become unsavy. If the mini bond pay out all the unsavy also be consider savy. So who's call is it to decide who is savy or not?
I think the big mistake of the govt was to change the rules to allow CPF to be used to buy private property and resale HDB. Now more than 50% of the people cannot meet minimum sum and it's mostly due to property.
In the CPF review, the govt should be reducing significantly the amount people can take out from their CPF to buy private property and resale HDB, and saving more of their income for their CPF retirement savings.
Singaporeans' household debt is now 75% of GDP and mortgage debt is now a historic high 45% of GDP under the current low mortgage rate, and this debt is still growing especially when interest rates goes up. Singaporeans are highly leverage. To reduce the debt level, the govt will not remove the CMs until the interest rates goes up and property prices drop significantly.
We'll those cannot meet min sub who bought property either make $$$ if it's their 2nd property cannot meet also never mind can sell. Those with one property at least they can still rent out a room to collect rent if come to worst. So I don't feel it's a bad policy to allow those who can afford.
Without Cpf housing policies a larger segment might not even have a roof. And might long term renters. Which is worst off.
We'll those cannot meet min sub who bought property either make $$$ if it's their 2nd property cannot meet also never mind can sell. Those with one property at least they can still rent out a room to collect rent if come to worst. So I don't feel it's a bad policy to allow those who can afford.
Without Cpf housing policies a larger segment might not even have a roof. And might long term renters. Which is worst off.
CPF can still be used for BTO.
The irony is that those people who have been most vocal about taking all CPF out are probably the group of people who need to have minimum sum imposed on them more than anyone else.
Not everyone can have 500k minimum sum ....
Not everyone can have 500k minimum sum ....
Where did you get that figure?
Where did you get that figure?
That is absolutely correct statement. The same like not every man is handsome
Not everyone can have 500k minimum sum ....
Frankly those cannot cannot Loh. It only means at 55 the don't have the loose change they can spend. I don't see what's the big fuss people are trying to kick up. 77.5K a lot meh ? It's barely ex ought for min retirement. At least with annuity the are guarantee some $ till they go into the box.
Its better not to allow withdrawal of CPF
In fact it should be increased the age from 65 to 75 and monthly payment just enough for daily expenses
If we allow withdrawal
Very soon people will be begging in the street
Our wives will be maids in other countries
Our sons will be construction workers in other countries
Our daughters will be xxxxxx in other countries
You just do not have a Choice because we do not have resources
Our only resources is CPF
You should just trust the Government 100% that they are doing all these for our own good and learn to appreciate and be thankful that we have annual 2.5% and 4% interest return
From 55 to 75 before getting withdrawal
Learn new skills that can double or even triple the productive value
Government has set up many Learning centres to assist you
Government has also set up centres to match your new found skill set with relevant employment
If possible Government can import Foreign Talent to assist and create new employment for you
So do not worry
No one will be left behind as all safety nets are in place
My mum very frustrated whenever she goes to renew her deposit..there will always be cashers bankers hounding her to invest into structured deposit stocks etc.
Last time she was taken in n invested into something she had no idea wth is it..lost a lot of money.:simmering:
Now my instructions to her simple...never do anything when I m not around.
ask them to call me.I will always scold them; my mum so old Liao..wtf make them think she should venture into such high risks???
And the answer simple. The cashers n banks made the most commission. Do they care if the money they pursuaded my mum to part with is her only money?!
LOL
how come your mother so stupid wan :D:banghead:
Luckily she has you around
This is why we need cpf.
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/more-singapore-stories/story/1m-gone-2-years-widow-now-broke-20140608
Some People just don't know how to manage money.
This is why we need cpf.
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/more-singapore-stories/story/1m-gone-2-years-widow-now-broke-20140608
Some People just don't know how to manage money.
Then, she decided to invest the remaining $100,000 in her brother's transport business in Kuala Lumpur, thinking it would give her a stable income."But I was told the money was only enough to buy one lorry and we needed three lorries. So, I withdrew half of my children's money, which was about $400,000, to buy two more lorries."
This statement does not add up
3 lorries for half a million Singapore dollars ?
That last $400,000 she withdrew lasted her five months.
That was S$80,000 spent per month..How ?
.
That was S$80,000 spent per month..How ?
"I also don't know how I finished (using) the money," she said.
Obvious isn't it? Easy guess.
If she ever care for the family she'd at least gotten better furniture although it's a rented house. Just need to use a small % of the last 400k she withdrawn can get some decent one right? But instead ......
Still not too late. Go find a job and kick all the bad habits.
"I also don't know how I finished (using) the money," she said.
Obvious isn't it? Easy guess.
If she ever care for the family she'd at least gotten better furniture although it's a rented house. Just need to use a small % of the last 400k she withdrawn can get some decent one right? But instead ......
Still not too late. Go find a job and kick all the bad habits.
S$80k easily equal to a monthly payroll of quite a big factory, say at least 150 workers
Say even if she is a guy and cheong KTV in JB every night
also more than enough
condoviewer
08-06-14, 20:49
.
That was S$80,000 spent per month..How ?
People often talk about mei mei "cheating" old men of cpf money.
There are also guys who will cheat lonely women of their bodies and money.
frankly if she have 1M SGD. plonk it into a Asenders Reits or keppel reits paying 6%. thats 60K. more than her income as a cleaner in singapore. can lead a comfy life in JB for a long time.
All bankers have quota to meet every month. It is better you buy from them than to buy from someone else. You can consider Eastspring M class with monthly payout of 0.004cent for every unit. Returns is about 5%. Price has been hovering between 0.98 and 1.13 in the last 3 years.
Currently, I am holding Eastspring M class only, bought from the bank few months back.:ashamed1:
.
That was S$80,000 spent per month..How ?
juz go casino n walk one round la :doh:
So do u advocate it?
yes.
in fact i feel tat 60% is too high risk liao. can set a more stringent one, eg 40% and if a borrower hv buffer can be allowed to leverage more, all tis will be done on a case by case basis at the discretion of the bank.
Nice article, how coincidence. Thanks SPH for the effort. Maybe don't let PR withdraw CPF?
juz go casino n walk one round la :doh:
yeah sway sway come out, 80k become S$1M :scared-2:
yeah sway sway come out, 80k become S$1M :scared-2:
Or underwear also leave it on the table.
"I also don't know how I finished (using) the money," she said.
Obvious isn't it? Easy guess.
If she ever care for the family she'd at least gotten better furniture although it's a rented house. Just need to use a small % of the last 400k she withdrawn can get some decent one right? But instead ......
Still not too late. Go find a job and kick all the bad habits.
Easy money easy go, she doesn't feel the treasure there.
But she did mention.
"I made a mistake. People knew I had so much money and they all came to me. I am so stupid. I never buy house and finished all the money meant for my children."
Lots of things after done already then regret but is too late. Some mistakes can still amend but some simply gone means gone, no way turning back.
The irony is that those people who have been most vocal about taking all CPF out are probably the group of people who need to have minimum sum imposed on them more than anyone else.
Yes, well said! Can't agree more with that.
Interesting that people want choice. When they f it up no choice then it's garmen they turn to. N that garmen must have choice ready for them.
Yes, the choices from the gahmen shall then be:-
(1) eat sh*t
(2) jump down from the 13th storey of a building
(3) take a boat & sail out into the ocean, if you are lucky you find a desolate island with coconut trees & all - you can live there for the rest of your life
darkseed73
10-06-14, 17:40
Yes, the choices from the gahmen shall then be:-
(1) eat sh*t
(2) jump down from the 13th storey of a building
(3) take a boat & sail out into the ocean, if you are lucky you find a desolate island with coconut trees & all - you can live there for the rest of your life
I prefer to jump from MBS......
Why now then start complaining?
Why now then start complaining?
“People support CPF cuts because there are no protest outside parliament.” - PM Lee
Now got Hong Lim Park protest
so everyone talks about it ???? :D:D
People r engross with the 20m wave coming.
10 sec later they r gone.....
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27189951
Koreans could once be sure that their children would look after them in their old age, but no longer - many of those who worked hard to transform the country's economy find the next generation has other spending priorities. As a result, some elderly women are turning to prostitution.
Kim Eun-ja sits on the steps at Seoul's Jongno-3 subway station, scanning the scene in front of her. The 71-year-old's bright lipstick and shiny red coat stand out against her papery skin.
Beside her is a large bag, from which comes the clink of glass bottles as she shifts on the cold concrete.
Mrs Kim is one of South Korea's "Bacchus Ladies" - older women who make a living by selling tiny bottles of the popular Bacchus energy drink to male customers.
But often that's not all they're selling. At an age when Korean grandmothers are supposed to be venerated as matriarchs, some are selling sex.
Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
I can't trust my children to help - they're in deep trouble because they have to start preparing for their old age”
Mr Kim
"You see those Bacchus Ladies standing over there?" she asks me. "Those ladies sell more than Bacchus. They sometimes go out with the grandpas and earn money from them. But I don't make a living like that.
"Men do proposition me when I'm standing in the alleyway," she adds. "But I always say, 'No.'"
Mrs Kim says she makes about 5,000 Won ($5, or £3) a day selling the drinks. "Drink up fast," she says. "The police are always watching me. They don't differentiate."
The centre of this underground sex trade is a nearby park in the heart of Seoul. Jongmyo Park is a place where elderly men come to while away their sunset years with a little chess and some local gossip.
It's built around a temple to Confucius, whose ideas on venerating elders have shaped Korean culture for centuries. But under the budding trees outside, the fumbling transactions of its elderly men and women tell the real story of Korean society in the 21st Century.
Women in their 50s, 60, even their 70s, stand around the edges of the park, offering drinks to the men. Buy one, and it's the first step in a lonely journey that ends in a cheap motel nearby.
The men in the park are more willing to talk to me than the women.
Standing around a game of Korean chess, a group of grandfathers watch the match intently. About half the men here use the Bacchus Ladies, they say.
"We're men, so we're curious about women," says 60-year-old Mr Kim.
"We have a drink, and slip a bit of money into their hands, and things happen!" he cackles. "Men like to have women around - whether they're old or not, sexually active or not. That's just male psychology."
Another man, 81 years old, excitedly showed me his spending money for the day. "It's for drinking with my friends," he said. "We can find girlfriends here, too - from those women standing over there. They'll ask us to play with them. They say, 'Oh, I don't have any money,' and then they glue on to us. Sex with them costs 20,000 to 30,000 Won (£11-17), but sometimes they'll give you a discount if they know you."
South Korea's grandparents are victims of their country's economic success.
As they worked to create Korea's economic miracle, they invested their savings in the next generation. In a Confucian society, successful children are the best form of pension.
But attitudes here have changed just as fast as living standards, and now many young people say they can't afford to support themselves and their parents in Korea's fast-paced, highly competitive society.
The government, caught out by this rapid change, is scrambling to provide a welfare system that works. In the meantime, the men and women in Jongmyo Park have no savings, no realistic pension, and no family to rely on. They've become invisible - foreigners in their own land.
"Those who rely on their children are stupid," says Mr Kim. "Our generation was submissive to our parents. We respected them. The current generation is more educated and experienced, so they don't listen to us.
"I'm 60 years old and I don't have any money. I can't trust my children to help. They're in deep trouble because they have to start preparing for their old age. Almost all of the old folks here are in the same situation."
Most Bacchus women have only started selling sex later in life, as a result of this new kind of old-age poverty, according to Dr Lee Ho-Sun, who is perhaps the only researcher to have studied them in detail.
One woman she interviewed first turned to prostitution at the age of 68. About 400 women work in the park, she says, all of whom will have been taught as children that respect and honour were worth more than anything.
"One Bacchus woman said to me 'I'm hungry, I don't need respect, I don't need honour, I just want three meals a day," Lee says.
Police, who routinely patrol the area but are rarely able to make an arrest, privately say this problem will never be solved by crackdowns, that senior citizens need an outlet for stress and sexual desire, and that policy needs to change.
“People support CPF cuts because there are no protest outside parliament.” - PM Lee
Now got Hong Lim Park protest
so everyone talks about it ???? :D:D
HLP BS protest. More like a Roy $$ collection scam
HLP BS protest. More like a Roy $$ collection scam
Sack from job already, of course must collect more $$ donations by eliciting public sympathy.
Sack from job already, of course must collect more $$ donations by eliciting public sympathy.
why need to work? Talk cock and collect people hard earn $$$ is easier. Just need to blogg can make $ why need to work leh?
Sack from job already, of course must collect more $$ donations by eliciting public sympathy.
why was he sacked from job?
why was he sacked from job?
Because his backside itchy. Obviously his job wasn't his priority, his blogging took precedence over his job, to the extent of unauthorized used of the hospital's computer facilities & steal work time for his blogging/CPF activities.
Because his backside itchy. Obviously his job wasn't his priority, his blogging took precedence over his job, to the extent of unauthorized used of the hospital's computer facilities & steal work time for his blogging/CPF activities.
fair enough
In a way, this CPF issue reflects the great social divide btw different classes in Singapore:-
Supporters of Roy:
sandwich struggling class of middle income Singaporeans, low income group:-
These people have low/NIL savings in the bank, due to their low salary, mortgages to pay off, kids to support etc. These are the people paying minimal if at all, any income tax. When they retire, they desperately need to take out all the CPF monies to sustain their monthly expenditure, the few hundred dollars payout a month isn't enough for them to sustain their family.
To them: "I just know I need the CPF monies now & immediately. I don't think about what if I live till 100 years old. I can't even cope with my expenses now & today, if I can't even feed my family today, let alone think about what to do at 90 years old. It is MY CPF monies & I want it all NOW!"
Supporters of PAP's CPF Policies
People doing well in their careers, professionals, businessmen, smart investors etc the well-off ones
They don't need to depend on monthly CPF handouts for retirement, they already have retirement plans in place. Additional CPF handouts are just icing on the cake, that's all. They are likely either to be indifferent to this MS Scheme, withdrawal age debate etc, or support PAP's CPF policies.
These are typically people who pay more than $500 to tens of thousands in income tax per month.
They are more likely to support PAP's CPF policies, because of the potential future social costs to taxpayers. If pple are allowed to withdraw full CPF monies at age 55, there will invariably be a group who used up their CPF, sell their homes & end up needing state support. State monies = taxpayers monies. The group needing state support will thus become a liability to the rest.
of the 2 classes, which have more stake in singapore's success?
of the 2 classes, which have more stake in singapore's success?
I would suggest both classes need each other, not that I'm sitting on the fence, I really think both need each other for success.
To continue my earlier post:-
A: X withdraws all his CPF $200,000.00 at age 55, retires & spends $1,200.00 a month after that - which allows him to maintain his present modest (with the occasional dining out at hawker centres) but still ok lifestyle without any cutbacks or sacrifices in the things he used to enjoy whilst still working. His CPF runs out at age 69. No money already after that. Too sick to work also. So no choice, ask for govt handout.
B: Govt keeps his CPF MS, & through CPF Life policy - he gets say $800 per month - so he cannot afford to eat at hawker centres, can only afford Maggi noodles, bread & water - the bare minimum survival - very uncomfortable life indeed, but he gets to live nevertheless & will get $800.00 for his entire lifetime.
Which is better for the country? Under scenario A - X inevitably sponges off the rest of the working population if X lives beyond 69, the taxpayers end up paying for his upkeep, if govt have to clear X off the street & house him in an aged home, provide him with 2 meals a day.
Under B scenerio, X must cut-back on his quality of life, so as not to sponge off the rest of society when his CPF money runs out.
25 years ago at age 55, you can pay full cash for a 3 room HDB for SGD 25,000.
Rent the HDB for 25 years and now still get SGD 2,000 a month rental and valuation of SGD 300,000.
Money is a depreciating assets and at the rate the world is printing it can only get worst.
Never Never put your money in the Bank doing nothing, soon you need to pay the Bank for putting your money.
How long does it take to get people to understand their money in the Bank is not their money and Bank don't need your money to issue Loan.
25 years ago at age 55, you can pay full cash for a 3 room HDB for SGD 25,000.
Rent the HDB for 25 years and now still get SGD 2,000 a month rental and valuation of SGD 300,000.
Money is a depreciating assets and at the rate the world is printing it can only get worst.
Never Never put your money in the Bank doing nothing, soon you need to pay the Bank for putting your money.
How long does it take to get people to understand their money in the Bank is not their money and Bank don't need your money to issue Loan.
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
I thought it is already happening... hahahahahaha
http://www.posb.com.sg/personal/deposit/savings/fees/default.page
The passbook savings account for your daily basic banking needs. It operates with a passbook for easy tracking of all your transactions.
Fees
A $2 fall-below fee will apply if your average daily balance for the month falls below $500.
Enjoy a waiver of the $2 fall-below fee if you meet any of the following criteria:
below 21 years old
62 years old and above
full-time National Service man (whose allowance/salary is credited to this account)
a recipient of the Ministry of Community Development and Sports' (MCDS) public assistance and special grant schemes.
http://worksingapore.com/articles/live_2.php
To continue my earlier post:-
A: X withdraws all his CPF $200,000.00 at age 55, retires & spends $1,200.00 a month after that - which allows him to maintain his present modest (with the occasional dining out at hawker centres) but still ok lifestyle without any cutbacks or sacrifices in the things he used to enjoy whilst still working. His CPF runs out at age 69. No money already after that. Too sick to work also. So no choice, ask for govt handout.
B: Govt keeps his CPF MS, & through CPF Life policy - he gets say $800 per month - so he cannot afford to eat at hawker centres, can only afford Maggi noodles, bread & water - the bare minimum survival - very uncomfortable life indeed, but he gets to live nevertheless & will get $800.00 for his entire lifetime.
Which is better for the country? Under scenario A - X inevitably sponges off the rest of the working population if X lives beyond 69, the taxpayers end up paying for his upkeep, if govt have to clear X off the street & house him in an aged home, provide him with 2 meals a day.
Under B scenerio, X must cut-back on his quality of life, so as not to sponge off the rest of society when his CPF money runs out.
Under B should realized he need to safe earlier. If arriving at 55 without any plan then no choice can only blame oneself never plan. But never mind still can tong 15 yrs working. Not happy why other people have retirement at 55 happy poon bi bi while the other that to work? Perhaps reflect what he being doing the last 55yrs? Maybe the next 15 yr finally do something right. At least can retire better. If still never plan. Then that the min and survived on Cpf life n medi life liao lor. Who to blame ?
To continue my earlier post:-
...his CPF $200,000.00 ....
B: Govt keeps his CPF MS, & through CPF Life policy - he gets say $800 per month -
I think 200,000 in CPF Life can get you 1200 pm... wouldn't this make it an obvious choice ?
phantom_opera
12-06-14, 16:22
1.2kpm annuity is only after 65 ... between 55-65 must drive taxi or go begging :banghead:
and seriously if I am at 55 right now, 1.2kpm 10y later can still buy me chicken rice or not :rolleyes:
Can lah, just how many pieces of chicken meat and how much rice given to you only.....
minority told you even now got $1 chicken rice (when coffeeshop now selling like $3)! It is not whether have cheap chicken rice or not, it is whether you bother to go find out where is it or not....... Furthermore you old already cannot eat too much, especially meat, so $1 chicken rice portion enough for you already........ :p
If $1200 pm cannot survive for 1 person, then $380 pm financial aid and $1000 pm min wage how to support whole family??? :banghead:
1.2kpm annuity is only after 65 ... between 55-65 must drive taxi or go begging :banghead:
and seriously if I am at 55 right now, 1.2kpm 10y later can still buy me chicken rice or not :rolleyes:
phantom_opera
12-06-14, 16:35
Can lah, just how many pieces of chicken meat and how much rice given to you only.....
minority told you even now got $1 chicken rice (when coffeeshop now selling like $3)! It is not whether have cheap chicken rice or not, it is whether you bother to go find out where is it or not....... Furthermore you old already cannot eat too much, especially meat, so $1 chicken rice portion enough for you already........ :p
$1? .. I am going to survive on Milo (which has 50% sugar)
1.2kpm annuity is only after 65 ... between 55-65 must drive taxi or go begging :banghead:
and seriously if I am at 55 right now, 1.2kpm 10y later can still buy me chicken rice or not :rolleyes:
If you are able to meet the Minimum Sum now and even after paying off your housing loan as at age 55
Then congratulations
You are the Lucky 1 out of every 8 person
But if you are unable to meet the Minimum Sum by age 55
Then chances of you meeting the MS and with housing loan still in progress
Probably you are in the low wage group
Then Woes to you
and you are not allowed to complain or KPKB
KPKB some more our very own Mr minority here will turn round and ask you
Hawker center, kopitiam or restaurant ?
Hahahahahaha
1.2kpm annuity is only after 65 ... between 55-65 must drive taxi or go begging :banghead:
and seriously if I am at 55 right now, 1.2kpm 10y later can still buy me chicken rice or not :rolleyes:
It's pegged to inflation. By the time you are 65, the amount will be higher.
Just rice and soup will do. No need chicken.
It's pegged to inflation. By the time you are 65, the amount will be higher.
Just rice and soup will do. No need chicken.
No choice la
from 55 to 65 before CPF life set in for your monthly payout
Chiam see tong lor, what to do ?
can take up 2nd or 3rd job
be a security guard or maybe a trolley collector at the airport lor :ashamed1:
... but if you are unable to meet the Minimum Sum by age 55
Probably you are in the low wage group
Then Woes to you...
the truth is, if you are "in the low wage group" for your entire working life, you will still be in tough life at retirement. This is what SG system is.
1.2kpm annuity is only after 65 ... between 55-65 must drive taxi or go begging :banghead:
and seriously if I am at 55 right now, 1.2kpm 10y later can still buy me chicken rice or not :rolleyes:
u forgot there is 4% in the RA as interest till 65? the $1200 applies to the folks today who is 65. and the RA is moved to a annuity plan that pays $1200 today what.
what happen in 10yrs time for a 55yr will have to keep pace with inflation. And yes thats why the min sum will increase. if not u will say $1200 where got enough 10yrs time ! precisely!
As for have to go drive taxi at 55 to 65? well never ask yourself why ? how come never plan? at least still can drive taxi from 55 to 65. or u rather spend the 1200 and run out of $ at 65 then go drive taxi then? Which is worst?
phantom_opera
12-06-14, 17:29
It is not just low wage group, even middle class will have problem going forward
Many young couples bought 400-500k Punggol flats ... if no kids boleh lah, if got 2-3 kids they will discover to their horror that at 55 they have:
1. No jobs (replaced by younger PMETs from overseas)
2. No cash (cars + tuitions + etc)
3. Little CPF (OA all used to pay HDB)
It is no wonder we Singaporeans self-protect by having no kid
At 55, pledge your HDB to top up min sum, 55-65 just pray your children can get a job to support u
In other country like Malaysia or China, can move to kampong, in Singapore move to Tekong?
If you are able to meet the Minimum Sum now and even after paying off your housing loan as at age 55
Then congratulations
You are the Lucky 1 out of every 8 person
But if you are unable to meet the Minimum Sum by age 55
Then chances of you meeting the MS and with housing loan still in progress
Probably you are in the low wage group
Then Woes to you
and you are not allowed to complain or KPKB
KPKB some more our very own Mr minority here will turn round and ask you
Hawker center, kopitiam or restaurant ?
Hahahahahaha
Who's fault? GOD, Ah Kong? or is it self inflicted that hitting 55 still have zero $ in pocket? what have the person been doing the last 55yrs ah?
It's pegged to inflation. By the time you are 65, the amount will be higher.
Just rice and soup will do. No need chicken.
Comcenter right in the heart of town. Food court. Fried rice is $2.5. other food is price at $2.5 to $3.
There are places still with low cost food even in the heart of town too.
the truth is, if you are "in the low wage group" for your entire working life, you will still be in tough life at retirement. This is what SG system is.
This is the fact everywhere. not just SGP. If you are low income you have to scrape the bottom of the can. The question will be is there opportunity to help uplift them to better skilled jobs at least get their kids out of the poverty trap. Education is the most important tool.
Who inturn the kids can help support the parents and cushion the retirement stress of a low income parent.
Can lah, just how many pieces of chicken meat and how much rice given to you only.....
minority told you even now got $1 chicken rice (when coffeeshop now selling like $3)! It is not whether have cheap chicken rice or not, it is whether you bother to go find out where is it or not....... Furthermore you old already cannot eat too much, especially meat, so $1 chicken rice portion enough for you already........ :p
If $1200 pm cannot survive for 1 person, then $380 pm financial aid and $1000 pm min wage how to support whole family??? :banghead:
Dont prata and tell lies. I say $1.5 chicken rice. which is the truth. there are. in tiong barhu there is 1.99 chicken rice. in com centre $2.5 fried rice so u can whine all you want there are options.
so don't talk cock.
the truth is, if you are "in the low wage group" for your entire working life, you will still be in tough life at retirement. This is what SG system is.
very true
that's why we are unable to attaint the Swee standard of Living
our Government spoke about not too long ago :ashamed1:
phantom_opera
12-06-14, 17:38
This is the fact everywhere. not just SGP. If you are low income you have to scrape the bottom of the can. The question will be is there opportunity to help uplift them to better skilled jobs at least get their kids out of the poverty trap. Education is the most important tool.
Who inturn the kids can help support the parents and cushion the retirement stress of a low income parent.
Hard truth yes. But human beings are intolerant of pain. Given increasing stress & risk, Singaporeans will never reproduce and very soon we will be a hotel, not a nation.
LKY said we cannot be like Scandinavians as they are willing to pay high income tax to support each other with trust .. people will abuse system!!!
Then be prepared and be delighted with Hotel Singapura;)
Who's fault? GOD, Ah Kong? or is it self inflicted that hitting 55 still have zero $ in pocket? what have the person been doing the last 55yrs ah?
It is not a question of whose fault la
As an ELECTED Government
what can they do for this group of people who are trapped
(No point telling them that this is not my fault, it is solely your own doing)
Or continue to trap their whatever small sum they have in their cpf and ask them to hide in one corner and cry ?
It is not a question of whose fault la
As an ELECTED Government
what can they do for this group of people who are trapped
(No point telling them that this is not my fault, it is solely your own doing)
Or continue to trap their whatever small sum they have in their cpf ?
Thats to help them when they are worst of at 65. from 55-65 find them jobs. try to get them work. ant than not enough? those that can't work there is welfare that have to be tap on.
can't u see Medishield life, cpf life all are to help people retire in peace and off load the youth from supporting the ageing parents?
wat u expect? golden handshake for everyone when hit 55 regardless? :banghead:
Hard truth yes. But human beings are intolerant of pain. Given increasing stress & risk, Singaporeans will never reproduce and very soon we will be a hotel, not a nation.
LKY said we cannot be like Scandinavians as they are willing to pay high income tax to support each other with trust .. people will abuse system!!!
Then be prepared and be delighted with Hotel Singapura;)
Well during the war. people still reproduce. there was stress n risk then too. my ah kong have 15 kids. went through the war and so on.
reproduce or not is not stress. its the people life style and the liberation of the female population to pursue a equal footing. which is a evolution where the female population get industrialised thats what happen. its not a bad thing but the smaller family when family are better educated and the youths have more options like to enjoy 1st then settle down and then career 1st then have children. have nothing to do with stress.
actually if you look at the lower income less educated family . they actually have more kids! for example the $1M lost in 2yr lady for example.
Thats to help them when they are worst of at 65. from 55-65 find them jobs. try to get them work. ant than not enough? those that can't work there is welfare that have to be tap on.
can't u see Medishield life, cpf life all are to help people retire in peace and off load the youth from supporting the ageing parents?
wat u expect? golden handshake for everyone when hit 55 regardless? :banghead:
I don't expect much really
for after 55 and still unable to meet MS
it will be worst when reach age 65
but there is something which I am really puzzled
Usually before GE
there were cookies and handout voluntarily and suddenly everyone become very happy
Question is : Why only always before a GE
Cant they do it every year ? :beats-me-man::beats-me-man:
very true
that's why we are unable to attaint the Swee standard of Living
our Government spoke about not too long ago :ashamed1:
Swiss standard comes with having the low income having attain a certain education level too. no education no skill want swiss standard of living?
swiss chocolate I give u.
Hard truth yes. But human beings are intolerant of pain. Given increasing stress & risk, Singaporeans will never reproduce and very soon we will be a hotel, not a nation.
LKY said we cannot be like Scandinavians as they are willing to pay high income tax to support each other with trust .. people will abuse system!!!
Then be prepared and be delighted with Hotel Singapura;)
Bro, stress or not stress depends on individuals and their lifestyle, their spending. Do our parents feel stress when bringing us up. I remember my parents pay r very low and we seldom buy things and seldom eat in fast food or restaurant. But they still give birth to alot of children. And also our hdb flat was only a 3 room flat. What is enough for one maynot seem enough for different people. Some need only $10k in bank, some will need $5m to feel secure.
Swiss standard comes with having the low income having attain a certain education level too. no education no skill want swiss standard of living?
swiss chocolate I give u.
So very true
then maybe instead of our Funds buying over companies in other countries
shouldn't they invest in our own SME to upgrade their product quality
You keep upgrade skill set of workers also no use ma
because if SME do not also upgrade then how
End up employing every upgraded workers to MANAGER ?
hahahaha
phantom_opera
12-06-14, 18:05
Bro, stress or not stress depends on individuals and their lifestyle, their spending. Do our parents feel stress when bringing us up. I remember my parents pay r very low and we seldom buy things and seldom eat in fast food or restaurant. But they still give birth to alot of children. And also our hdb flat was only a 3 room flat. What is enough for one maynot seem enough for different people. Some need only $10k in bank, some will need $5m to feel secure.
That is because of our parent or grandparent generation starting with a low base ... high economic growth saves all ... but high growth is simply not sustainable .. not to mention one year you have 10 million graduates from China and India to fight for that silly 3k job
Teachers in 1970's can own semi-D and car and still got spare change, teachers now can?
So very true
then maybe instead of our Funds buying over companies in other countries
shouldn't they invest in our own SME to upgrade their product quality
You keep upgrade skill set of workers also no use ma
because if SME do not also upgrade then how
End up employing every upgraded workers to MANAGER ?
hahahaha
Bro, our sme focus very much in local market... Damn bloodly local market so small... If they go international, they will be chewed alive.... No economy of scales...
That's why a lot of coys start in their home country and become big then go international....
Actually Singapore very poor thing... No natural resources... Local market too small, need to rely on international companies to set up here...and base their regional office here.... That's why u see a lot of regional managers here covering ASEAN/apac region.... Singapore tends to be hub for SEA market and HK for North Asia.
That is because of our parent or grandparent generation starting with a low base ... high economic growth saves all ... but high growth is simply not sustainable .. not to mention one year you have 10 million graduates from China and India to fight for that silly 3k job
Teachers in 1970's can own semi-D and car and still got spare change, teachers now can?
Teachers in the 70s were the cream of the crop... How many educated folks were there then???? In the 70s, how many MNCs??? How many local MDs... First local MD in Singapore for an MNC was Koh Boon Hwee of HP about 27 years or so ago....
Today, teachers pay are lower than those who work in MNC....
Paradigm shift
Bro, our sme focus very much in local market... Damn bloodly local market so small... If they go international, they will be chewed alive.... No economy of scales...
That's why a lot of coys start in their home country and become big then go international....
Actually Singapore very poor thing... No natural resources... Local market too small, need to rely on international companies to set up here...and base their regional office here.... That's why u see a lot of regional managers here covering ASEAN/apac region.... Singapore tends to be hub for SEA market and HK for North Asia.
Bro
actually our Singapore will not be a "poor thing" la
we have our only resources and that is CPF and Tax ....debatable la :p
Being a Free Port is also good
but also lure in many products from various countries to compete on our own turf
We can be small but that does not means we are weak and incapable
If our Government can only go a little further helping the SME develop,
it will be great (speaking here not on cheap PMETs la)
Once our SMEs are strong then it can provide a constant employment outlet for our very own Singaporean ite, poly and uni grads
Our "think tank" at EDB, IE and Springs still have a long way to go
So very true
then maybe instead of our Funds buying over companies in other countries
shouldn't they invest in our own SME to upgrade their product quality
You keep upgrade skill set of workers also no use ma
because if SME do not also upgrade then how
End up employing every upgraded workers to MANAGER ?
hahahaha
SME are also invested in but MNC in SGP hire more people though. What we lack is the human capital that can have a Apple , IBM or GE.
Wats happen to creative.. was at a time leading the consumer sound devices but they never got anywhere. lack of $$ or lack of human capital or just plain poor leadership.
That is because of our parent or grandparent generation starting with a low base ... high economic growth saves all ... but high growth is simply not sustainable .. not to mention one year you have 10 million graduates from China and India to fight for that silly 3k job
Teachers in 1970's can own semi-D and car and still got spare change, teachers now can?
Why not ? I have a teacher friend his place enbloc by capital land. Then he bought a resale HDB and a place in D9.
don't say cannot.
High growth will always follow by a period of slow growth then follow by high growth. I rather there is growth then no growth. Which is worst actually? no growth or hv periods of high and then slower growth?
Also the question is grow or get over taken. coz growth is not like a knob can happy turn on and turn of at a fancy though.
SME are also invested in but MNC in SGP hire more people though. What we lack is the human capital that can have a Apple , IBM or GE.
Wats happen to creative.. was at a time leading the consumer sound devices but they never got anywhere. lack of $$ or lack of human capital or just plain poor leadership.
Question will be
Why cant we Grow our own MNC ?
you mean to say oversea big MNC grow out of thin air ?
go read up on Apple IBM and GE
what bro chestnut said is very true
Only when there are local market support from Government and the public then SME can go regional then on to the global stage
Right now what happen ?
You tell people Akira, a local brand...Singaporean shun away :banghead:
So how can government give a helping hand ?
You go HDB hub, wow so many LCD hanging here and there
but NONE are AKIRA !!!
IDA is starting on a very good initiations on Accreditation exercise for local product
Hope it will kick off with more such programs
Question will be
Why cant we Grow our own MNC ?
you mean to say oversea big MNC grow out of thin air ?
go read up on Apple IBM and GE
what bro chestnut said is very true
Only when there are local market support from Government and the public then SME can go regional then on to the global stage
Right now what happen ?
You tell people Akira, a local brand...Singaporean shun away :banghead:
So how can government give a helping hand ?
You go HDB hub, wow so many LCD hanging here and there
but NONE are AKIRA !!!
IDA is starting on a very good initiations on Accreditation exercise for local product
Hope it will kick off with more such program
Bro, china companies don't even need to go out of china.... They local market already enough.... The china govt had to come out with incentives for china brand to go overseas (some form of funding)... That's why u see Lenovo, huawei go international....
Everything cannot be said in a few sentences... And it is also debatable... The main issue is out market size is a pathetic 5mil....
You look at apples revenue in Singapore.... The revenue is actually a regional number with tax breaks here.... Something for u to think about, how clever our govt is.... ;)
Another question - do you think our SMEs can compete with MNCs in terms of renumerations to employees??? That's why many like to join MNCs vs local firms...
What to do????
Do you know how much a GM working in local firm is paid compared with a GM in an MNC???
Look at the revenue/profit and you can guess Liao...
Bro, china companies don't even need to go out of china.... They local market already enough.... The china govt had to come out with incentives for china brand to go overseas (some form of funding)... That's why u see Lenovo, huawei go international....
Everything cannot be said in a few sentences... And it is also debatable... The main issue is out market size is a pathetic 5mil....
You look at apples revenue in Singapore.... The revenue is actually a regional number with tax breaks here.... Something for u to think about, how clever our govt is.... ;)
Another question - do you think our SMEs can compete with MNCs in terms of renumerations to employees??? That's why many like to join MNCs vs local firms...
What to do????
Do you know how much a GM working in local firm is paid compared with a GM in an MNC???
Look at the revenue/profit and you can guess Liao...
Bro
right now its half in half out situation
Singapore Government must ka ka go in and support local enterprises
nurture them and force them regional and global
so far program are neither here nor there
an example
Rental
Reit they also got share ma.
shareholder and stakeholders every quarter also wants dividends ma
on one hand they try to fuel the economies and on the other hand carry a fire extinguisher ....hahahaha
right hand fight left hand
There is a saying
When elephant make love or fight...we on the ground died or suffer :ashamed1::ashamed1:
Lao Wan Tong martial art .....hahahaha
Bro chestnut
We have 6,000 scientists at A* star
send them out to companies where their product also match their expertise
you ask them about CPF they drag their feet shift goal posts after goal post
they tell you is Long term investment
long long 30 to 50 to 60years
if for the people and local enterprises they want short short every quarters also want or even immediate returns
that's the irony:banghead::banghead:
you ask them about CPF they drag their feet shift goal posts after goal post
they tell you is Long term investment
long long 30 to 50 to 60years
if for the people and local enterprises they want short short every quarters also want or even immediate returns
that's the irony:banghead::banghead:
u seems to be confuse. confusing a retirement planning which is long term by nature and a growth and skills and productivity. u mean u will pay your maid 550 pm but she tell u wait 10yrs for her to clean your house?
Bro
actually our Singapore will not be a "poor thing" la
we have our only resources and that is CPF and Tax ....debatable la :p
Being a Free Port is also good
but also lure in many products from various countries to compete on our own turf
We can be small but that does not means we are weak and incapable
If our Government can only go a little further helping the SME develop,
it will be great (speaking here not on cheap PMETs la)
Once our SMEs are strong then it can provide a constant employment outlet for our very own Singaporean ite, poly and uni grads
Our "think tank" at EDB, IE and Springs still have a long way to go
well u cannot deny tat we are by geographic limited by our human capital. 5M people. tats all. host a singapore idol here how many stars can you get out of it? hold 1 in india, china or America. u can have a steady stream of talents. Its plain statistic.
Even that is not enough to accelerate growth. Who did you think put American on the moon? not an american. actually is a German V2 rocket scientist they capture. Who was the co-founder or face book? who was the founder of yahoo? and the list goes on. Human capital is needed. Its something u can spend decades nurturing and maybe u get a handful and by then much of the countries ard us have moved on.
1st u make sure u buy everything local then. Change all ur home appliance to Akira. will u? Like u say locals consumers don't even support local brands!
I can say the only success was creative. but that also it lost out to the big boys in the globalised world. So want to depend on SME? many eat grass liao.
I Repeat again, there is nothing wrong with CPF return.
1. It is because the World is printing Money too fast.
2. Money = Debt.
3. Bank don't need your deposit to issue Loan.
I Repeat again, there is nothing wrong with CPF return.
1. It is because the World is printing Money too fast.
2. Money = Debt.
3. Bank don't need your deposit to issue Loan.
I agree. The QE have fudge it all. destroyed so much values that was stored in paper. thus people are in a hurry to transfer that value to other more limited resources.
well u cannot deny tat we are by geographic limited by our human capital. 5M people. tats all. host a singapore idol here how many stars can you get out of it? hold 1 in india, china or America. u can have a steady stream of talents. Its plain statistic.
Even that is not enough to accelerate growth. Who did you think put American on the moon? not an american. actually is a German V2 rocket scientist they capture. Who was the co-founder or face book? who was the founder of yahoo? and the list goes on. Human capital is needed. Its something u can spend decades nurturing and maybe u get a handful and by then much of the countries ard us have moved on.
1st u make sure u buy everything local then. Change all ur home appliance to Akira. will u? Like u say locals consumers don't even support local brands!
I can say the only success was creative. but that also it lost out to the big boys in the globalised world. So want to depend on SME? many eat grass liao.
Good to know that there are people like you
Bound by limitations
everything also cannot
this cannot that cannot....
hahahaha
my last posting on this subject
cheers
Good to know that there are people like you
Bound by limitations
everything also cannot
this cannot that cannot....
hahahaha
my last posting on this subject
cheers
BTW did I say cannot? Question is whats best use of the limited resources for the country.
Good to know that there are people like you. Where talk is cheap and reality are augmented.
Also my last reply to you.
I Repeat again, there is nothing wrong with CPF return.
1. It is because the World is printing Money too fast.
2. Money = Debt.
3. Bank don't need your deposit to issue Loan.
Arcachon
just curious
Print so much money
where did it go to ?
phantom_opera
12-06-14, 21:09
This thread is surely political :D
I think what makes people unhappy is the ever delaying timeline in which you can cash out the money, and the ever increasing minimum sum thing.
Most older people think cpf like an endowment contract and you can cash out at the end of the policy. But the terms and conditions keep changing and they felt cheated in that sense. :confused:
Arcachon
just curious
Print so much money
where did it go to ?
Here, enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCThv5tYUVaG4ZPA3p6EXZbQ/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xx_5PuLIzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOZ2l6UNY34
Here, enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCThv5tYUVaG4ZPA3p6EXZbQ/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xx_5PuLIzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOZ2l6UNY34
Wow Arcachon
these will take me several days to go through
Thank you very much mate ....wave
I think what makes people unhappy is the ever delaying timeline in which you can cash out the money, and the ever increasing minimum sum thing.
Most older people think cpf like an endowment contract and you can cash out at the end of the policy. But the terms and conditions keep changing and they felt cheated in that sense. :confused:
Actually also not totally the Govt choice. Who could have totally anticipated the series of global events that make retiring for everyone so much more difficult to plan for? We used to be such a simpler place to live in just 8 years ago.
The young want wage increase. Increased wages lead to asset and general inflation. The retiring want comfortable retirement. Want to be non productive for 20 to 30 years but want no risk in preparing for retirement. Everybody says Govt must solve everything cos they are overpaid. If personal money all exhausted wait for welfare from state. Not an easy job to fulfil. Many sides of the equation to deal with.
Wow Arcachon
these will take me several days to go through
Thank you very much mate ....wave
You are Welcome, after I watch Money = Debt, I went back to Singapore in 2011 to get into more Debt.
You are Welcome, after I watch Money = Debt, I went back to Singapore in 2011 to get into more Debt.
2011 still can. You are lucky.
Fast forward to today. You need strong income and strong source of funds to get more debts.
2011 still can. You are lucky.
Fast forward to today. You need strong income and strong source of funds to get more debts.
Agreed, Time waits for no Man.
You are Welcome, after I watch Money = Debt, I went back to Singapore in 2011 to get into more Debt.
Wuahahaha
was just making enquiries the other day in China
FD 6% pa
going back there again :D
Thought we already achieve Swee cost of living but NOT Swee standard of income? :D
very true
that's why we are unable to attaint the Swee standard of Living
our Government spoke about not too long ago :ashamed1:
Wait long long also don't have????? Give you $10,000 before GE, after GE take back $30,000?????????????? :p
I don't expect much really
for after 55 and still unable to meet MS
it will be worst when reach age 65
but there is something which I am really puzzled
Usually before GE
there were cookies and handout voluntarily and suddenly everyone become very happy
Question is : Why only always before a GE
Cant they do it every year ? :beats-me-man::beats-me-man:
Wuahahaha
was just making enquiries the other day in China
FD 6% pa
going back there again :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmMbRdWrfDM
Better than people getting paid $Millions and asking us to provide them solutions to their problems? :doh:
u seems to be confuse. confusing a retirement planning which is long term by nature and a growth and skills and productivity. u mean u will pay your maid 550 pm but she tell u wait 10yrs for her to clean your house?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmMbRdWrfDM
like this type of movies
thanks
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