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3 Truths About CPF
This entry was posted in Economy and tagged CPF on May 21, 2014 by Doctor Wealth Team.
Much has been said about our national savings system CPF. As a Singaporean and an avid proponent of good personal finance, i decided to dig deep into this topic and try to shed light and clarity on this much debated but also pretty misunderstood scheme.
1) Truth 1 – CPF money is forced saving for your retirement and medical needs.
Many Singaporeans are very unhappy with being forced to save for retirement. They believe everyone should have a choice and that CPF forces the choice on them. While it is true that more choice is usually better in a democratic society like ours, it depends on whether having that freedom causes much more problems for society as a whole.
Singapore has a rapidly aging population. Within 20-30 years, we will have a clear inverted population pyramid where a smaller base of workers have to support a larger top of retirees. If we have no CPF scheme or equivalent, what will happen is that future government will need to either let the elderly who fail to save enough live in poverty or use government funds to provide housing, food and medical care. And the government money will come from higher taxes or investment returns.
So it is wise to start forced saving for everyone so that at least there is a minimum standard or base of savings to leverage off. Even with current numbers, it is clear we will need to spend more and more on elder care and subsidies on healthcare. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, we must do this as a caring and ethical society.
2) Truth 2 – CPF is still your money ….. with some restrictions
Think of CPF as a long term structured note that is principal guaranteed but which you cannot withdraw. The only way a citizen can withdraw CPF is for mandated purposes like housing and education or when you change citizenship. However, this principal guaranteed note does offer a 2.6% to 4% risk free interest rate. This is equivalent to a 20 year USA treasury note return. So we are not being shortchanged.
Now, some of us will argue that since the government takes this money and invests via MAS, GIC and Temasek to get better returns, we should partake in those returns directly. However, we need to realize that if we want to participate in those returns directly, we must also accept the risk if those returns turn out to be negative. There is no such thing as a risk free, high return instrument. That is what we call a scam.
Anyway, there is a way for us to get higher returns. We can always invest our CPF money in approved mutual funds over the long term to get equity like returns if we really know what we are doing when it comes to DIY investing via funds.
3) Truth 3 – CPF is not a perfect system
Of course, CPF is not a perfect system. Can the CPF board pay us more interest? Of course it can. The government can decide to pay 3.5% interest rate to CPF board if it wants to. But is this good? It is highly debatable. Paying more interest will only benefit those wealthier Singaporeans who have loads of cash in CPF. Also, paying more will mean that we add less to our reserves since I do not think Temasek and GIC should take even higher investment risks to maintain same extra returns. But perhaps small tweaks upwards to help Singaporeans save for retirement via CPF is practicable. To set the right tone that the government is in it with the people on this topic of retirement savings.
Another idea is that we can we give citizens a well run fund that thinks over a 15 to 30 year time horizon to help invest their CPF money? I think this is quite doable? If GIC can give 5-7% returns over such a time horizon, I can imagine them setting up a mirror fund where citizens can invest directly to do the same? The logic behind this is that the current approved mutual funds are too short term and profit driven in their approach and the average Singaporean does not buy them with the right mentality.
About the Author
Lim Dershing is the Director of Doctor Wealth Pte Ltd (www.drwealth.com), which is an online financial planning platform. Dershing is also an active angel investor in other digital media startups. His goal is to help via experience sharing, these businesses to grow to their full potential. His experience covers all the topics required to startup, build and scale an internet business in South East Asia.
Allthepies
23-05-14, 08:22
Explained well!
CPF is good lar.. though I know I can make more $ on my own, but not all the people knows, i may also cock-up 1 day... so for the sake of our younger generation, myself and well being of the public, we definitely need CPF.
I don't see what is bad about CPF.
It is enforced savings, which also dictates that employers have to contribute to their employees' retirement / housing / education / medical fund, which CPF is chiefly used for.
In fact, I wonder if the old men who spent their money on the transient china / batam girlfriends when they could withdraw their retirement funds at 55 ( in the earlier years ), prompted the sg government to look into an older age for full cash withdrawal.
with concerns to the recent saga, of the disgruntled male nurse, who claims to speak for everyone on demanding for earlier CPF funds withdrawal, higher CPF savings rates... what really scares me is that I see in the distance future, someone like him would be voted into the parliament.
He obviously doesn't know the difference between 1. income tax, 2. cpf, 3. medisave, to string a series of very weak accusation against the government / ruling party / LHL.
The recent news that he submitted for application as an NMP, which the clueless girl nominating his submission is scary.
I am pretty sure, as much as I am aghast by Tin Pei Ling, she would know the difference between the 3, i.e. income tax, cpf and medisave, as she used to work in an audit firm.
.....
In fact, I wonder if the old men who spent their money on the transient china / batam girlfriends when they could withdraw their retirement funds at 55 ( in the earlier years ), prompted the sg government to look into an older age for full cash withdrawal.
....
why does people like to use this argument?
the MSM reports and it is so? any figures provided?
And whatever happened to the old men who splurged in the 80's & 90's. There is no follow up stories by the MSM in the 00's?
I have suggestion for MSM. Please do a follow-up on the old men who splurged in the 80's & 90's. What are they doing now? Any regrets? etc.
And please persuade them to use their real names, photos, details so we know the story are not faked and so as to serve as a warning for the current generation.
do gather the statistics if u want to be assured that it's the truth, yourself.
the key worrying factor of Singaporeans is the displaced sense of self-entitlement.
Sorry, I am not your mother, no spoon-feeding here.
Plainly, I know of one, a retired guy with 1-2m sg$, who spurged it on PRC chinese women.
Now, he's living under the charity of his son's roof.
do gather the statistics if u want to be assured that it's the truth, yourself.
the key worrying factor of Singaporeans is the displaced sense of self-entitlement.
Sorry, I am not your mother, no spoon-feeding here.
Plainly, I know of one, a retired guy with 1-2m sg$, who spurged it on PRC chinese women.
Now, he's living under the charity of his son's roof.
how can there be any statistics if there are none compiled or published?
so based on your personal experience, the rest of retirees have to follow suit and have their money restrained?
why does people like to use this argument?
the MSM reports and it is so? any figures provided?
And whatever happened to the old men who splurged in the 80's & 90's. There is no follow up stories by the MSM in the 00's?
I have suggestion for MSM. Please do a follow-up on the old men who splurged in the 80's & 90's. What are they doing now? Any regrets? etc.
.
uh.... watever statistics coming out of msm will be seen as pap propaganda... wat's the point.
how can there be any statistics if there are none compiled or published?
so based on your personal experience, the rest of retirees have to follow suit and have their money restrained?
how to have statistics.. this kind of embarrassing thing how to share... if this happen to me, i would tell people that i lose money through investment rather than to the mei mei...:D
actually got real case lar, my uncle is one eg..
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/sg-wife-sg-men-so-stupid-always-get-cheated-foreign-wives-4172890.html
SG WIFE: SG MEN ARE SO STUPID, ALWAYS GET CHEATED BY FOREIGN WIVES
A Singaporean wife wonders why Singapore men never learn and still fall prey to foreign women after reading news about a Singaporean man who was cheated on by his PRC wife and left in debt.
According to a news report, 50-year-old Mr. Ang first met his PRC wife who was a beer lady at a coffee shop in Johor Bahru where he ran two restaurants. She is a 39 years old divorcee with two children from Heilongjiang, China.
Initially, the PRC woman was very nice and gentle to him and 'serve' him dutifully in bed. Mr. Ang was so mesmerised by her that he spent his entire life savings on her and was even persuaded to sell his two restaurants to buy a house for her children in China.
However, after he registered his marriage with her in Singapore, her attitude changed completely and she began to demand more money from Mr Ang who had to borrow from his friends to support her. He is now in debts and owes more than a hundred thousand dollars.
She even refused to have sex with him and made him a cuckold by having sex with three other men. She went missing after she was caught by Mr. Ang for making love with another man in their home.
TRS reader, UnhappyWife, wrote:
"There are so many such stories, and yet we are hearing even more. Why?? Shouldn't Singapore men be more wary of these foreign women who are apparently here for the money?
"Why Singapore men never learn and still want to get involved with these foreign women? I do not understand what's so great about these women that our local men are so smitten with them!
"This uncle really deserves it! Singapore men should wise up! And we, as a wife, should keep a look out on our husbands so that they won't fall prey to these sluts."
then then then who are the materialistic and demanding women?
Many men couldnt find nice women as there are lesser nowadays
uh.... watever statistics coming out of msm will be seen as pap propaganda... wat's the point.
Yalor
Government only do things that is right for the country and her citizens
Strong protest by the public when Gov wanted the casino
Gov went ahead and built 2 :scared-4:
believed if there is a street march...they will build 3 !!! :):doh:
Protest some more on CPF
wait the Gov increase the MS every quarterly then you know :scared-5:
hahahahaha
alamak, we also read of cases where people money at casino, and also their freedom (because cheating), then banned casino?
casino increase GDP
china mei-mei dont increase GDP
alamak, we also read of cases where people money at casino, and also their freedom (because cheating), then banned casino?
casino increase GDP
china mei-mei dont increase GDP
like that must band 4D and toto 1st. next band alcohol and cigarettes also ban singapore pools... band shopping too coz once $$$ on hand.. itchy leh....
scratch scratch.. darn itch.....
must teach people how to save n invest lah.. if not all go into long kao .
must teach people how to save n invest lah.. if not all go into long kao .
Precisely !!!
Investment
those who got money can buy shares in the millions
those who do not then buy in thousands
CPF FORCED SAVING
likewise those who has lots of spare cash can contribute more to cpf
those with less or living hand to mouth every mouth contribute less
Ye ye I am all for it :D:D:doh:
like that must band 4D and toto 1st. next band alcohol and cigarettes also ban singapore pools... band shopping too coz once $$$ on hand.. itchy leh....
scratch scratch.. darn itch.....
thats right if govt banned cpf withdrawal because of china mei-meis.
like that must band 4D and toto 1st. next band alcohol and cigarettes also ban singapore pools... band shopping too coz once $$$ on hand.. itchy leh....
scratch scratch.. darn itch.....
poor people buy 4D and TOTO
go casino also play those small amount table
Rich people no need to buy 4D and TOTO
go casino into VVIP room and play at NO LIMIT table :D
poor people drink todi
rich people drink Lafite and Latour
poor people smoke "black cat" cig
rich people smoke Cuban cigar
poor people shop at pasar malam
rich people go Paris and New York for shopping
thats right if govt banned cpf withdrawal because of china mei-meis.
i think we are not solving the problem at the source. need to offer a competitive Mei Mei options. Where Mei Mei can be acquire at a fair market rate and totally regulated. I suggest licensing all the Mei Mei that go into coffee shop. So that would mean the Mei Mei operate at a fair and regulated manner cannot cheat uncle. at the same time uncle happy.. also safer for uncles out there won't kana scam and cane for all the under 18 cases and CPF protected. win win!
Coz u take mei mei away... uncle go batam. fine Mina! If that happens like the cock teddy say our currency might all get redeem to rupia and ah kong need to spend more to defend the currency against rupia !
Maybe write to CPF board to approve a CPF draw down under twilight entertainment category. every year must put some $ aside into this special special acct so when retirement this special special acct can use for special purpose without risking the OA,SA,MA. Lets add a SSA!
I like that say got logic bo?
Yalor
Government only do things that is right for the country and her citizens
Strong protest by the public when Gov wanted the casino
Gov went ahead and built 2 :scared-4:
believed if there is a street march...they will build 3 !!! :):doh:
Protest some more on CPF
wait the Gov increase the MS every quarterly then you know :scared-5:
hahahahaha
i fully support the cpf system. those who earn more will have xtra money to invest n do not need the monies in cpf. it's those who earn less that will kpkb about the ms. china mei mei only affect a small group of old fools. Some others will give the money to their children for education, startup biz or watever. we are asian afterall, it's hard to say no when our children ask us for money. the ms of 155k may seems like a big sum but look at how much is the monthly payout? only enough for minimalist style of living.
some pple might tink they can manage their money better den putting in cpf, good for u. but for those who are not so savvy (majority?), the conservative one put money in fd, <1.2%, some kena 'conned' into buying insurance/structured product, worse are those who cheong penny stocks and get themselves burnt.
although the ideal is everyone take care of their own retirement. i tink generally, singaporeans have not reach that level yet.
i fully support the cpf system. those who earn more will have xtra money to invest n do not need the monies in cpf. it's those who earn less that will kpkb about the ms. china mei mei only affect a small group of old fools. Some others will give the money to their children for education, startup biz or watever. we are asian afterall, it's hard to say no when our children ask us for money. the ms of 155k may seems like a big sum but look at how much is the monthly payout? only enough for minimalist style of living.
some pple might tink they can manage their money better den putting in cpf, good for u. but for those who are not so savvy (majority?), the conservative one put money in fd, <1.2%, some kena 'conned' into buying insurance/structured product, worse are those who cheong penny stocks and get themselves burnt.
although the ideal is everyone take care of their own retirement. i tink generally, singaporeans have not reach that level yet.
It takes a lot of education. not everyone wants to see long term. I have a few friends who are female. they don't seem to have a retirement planning concept. get bonus? is cheong shopping, clubbing etc. when ever I ask them about planning fore retirement.. they will say wah.. long way leh.. plus bo $$$ how to plan retirement. I look at the LV bag and cartier watch I scratch my head.. where the $$$ go to.
Another friend wife just delivered the only planning the knows is buy insurance. and buy lots of it.
While there are those that know how to... there are also a lot that luan lai. or bo chap.
i fully support the cpf system. those who earn more will have xtra money to invest n do not need the monies in cpf. it's those who earn less that will kpkb about the ms. china mei mei only affect a small group of old fools. Some others will give the money to their children for education, startup biz or watever. we are asian afterall, it's hard to say no when our children ask us for money. the ms of 155k may seems like a big sum but look at how much is the monthly payout? only enough for minimalist style of living.
some pple might tink they can manage their money better den putting in cpf, good for u. but for those who are not so savvy (majority?), the conservative one put money in fd, <1.2%, some kena 'conned' into buying insurance/structured product, worse are those who cheong penny stocks and get themselves burnt.
although the ideal is everyone take care of their own retirement. i tink generally, singaporeans have not reach that level yet.
personally I take CPF as a bare min retirement plan. its a base line to fall back on.. or min life line. For sure one must self plan if possible to add on depending on ones vision of retirement.
i fully support the cpf system. those who earn more will have xtra money to invest n do not need the monies in cpf. it's those who earn less that will kpkb about the ms. china mei mei only affect a small group of old fools. Some others will give the money to their children for education, startup biz or watever. we are asian afterall, it's hard to say no when our children ask us for money. the ms of 155k may seems like a big sum but look at how much is the monthly payout? only enough for minimalist style of living.
some pple might tink they can manage their money better den putting in cpf, good for u. but for those who are not so savvy (majority?), the conservative one put money in fd, <1.2%, some kena 'conned' into buying insurance/structured product, worse are those who cheong penny stocks and get themselves burnt.
although the ideal is everyone take care of their own retirement. i tink generally, singaporeans have not reach that level yet.
Bro
I support
after all CPF had already deducted from my MS into CPF Life :cheers1:
so will be getting $1200 every month at 62 or 65...I don't know
as for the withdrawal portion ?...waiting for property to soften to fully utilize it
only thing is the Interest paid
too low at 2.5% :scared-4::scared-4::confused:
Bro
I support
after all CPF had already deducted from my MS into CPF Life :cheers1:
so will be getting $1200 every month at 62 or 65...I don't know
as for the withdrawal portion ?...waiting for property to soften to fully utilize it
only thing is the Interest paid
too low at 2.5% :scared-4::scared-4::confused:
hehe u dragon of course see the water shallow
:D
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/sg-wife-sg-men-so-stupid-always-get-cheated-foreign-wives-4172890.html
SG WIFE: SG MEN ARE SO STUPID, ALWAYS GET CHEATED BY FOREIGN WIVES
A Singaporean wife wonders why Singapore men never learn and still fall prey to foreign women after reading news about a Singaporean man who was cheated on by his PRC wife and left in debt.
According to a news report, 50-year-old Mr. Ang first met his PRC wife who was a beer lady at a coffee shop in Johor Bahru where he ran two restaurants. She is a 39 years old divorcee with two children from Heilongjiang, China.
Initially, the PRC woman was very nice and gentle to him and 'serve' him dutifully in bed. Mr. Ang was so mesmerised by her that he spent his entire life savings on her and was even persuaded to sell his two restaurants to buy a house for her children in China.
However, after he registered his marriage with her in Singapore, her attitude changed completely and she began to demand more money from Mr Ang who had to borrow from his friends to support her. He is now in debts and owes more than a hundred thousand dollars.
She even refused to have sex with him and made him a cuckold by having sex with three other men. She went missing after she was caught by Mr. Ang for making love with another man in their home.
TRS reader, UnhappyWife, wrote:
"There are so many such stories, and yet we are hearing even more. Why?? Shouldn't Singapore men be more wary of these foreign women who are apparently here for the money?
"Why Singapore men never learn and still want to get involved with these foreign women? I do not understand what's so great about these women that our local men are so smitten with them!
"This uncle really deserves it! Singapore men should wise up! And we, as a wife, should keep a look out on our husbands so that they won't fall prey to these sluts."
then then then who are the materialistic and demanding women?
Many men couldnt find nice women as there are lesser nowadays
Tons of these sob stories of stupid uncles in Singapore. Which is why CPF Life is good.
CPF is good when inflation is less than 4%.
Your money will be start to reduce when inflation is more than 4%.
Anyone believe inflation in Singapore is less than 4%?
Everyone agree CPF is good but most believe it can be better.
Would you like to leave your money to someone else to take care like the 401K.
What make you so sure CPF will not be like 401K.
That is why he should only get $300 per month from his CPF Life so that he can live in miserable to reflect on himself instead of $1200 per month or more to live comfortably!
Increasing CPF min sum and CPF Life payment safe-guard for these people is to encourage such irresponsible behaviour and penalizing many others who don't behave like that! :doh:
do gather the statistics if u want to be assured that it's the truth, yourself.
the key worrying factor of Singaporeans is the displaced sense of self-entitlement.
Sorry, I am not your mother, no spoon-feeding here.
Plainly, I know of one, a retired guy with 1-2m sg$, who spurged it on PRC chinese women.
Now, he's living under the charity of his son's roof.
Well said! :cheers1:
Doesn't make any cow sense!
And these people who support increase of CPF min sum have not replied my question yet:
1) CPF min sum of $155k giving payout of $1200 per month if not enough, then
2) how can $300 per month financial aid and $1000 per month min wage for people to support a family (of 4 or more) be enough?!!!!!
So, can these people tell me:
a) Either CPF min sum has been raised too high,
or
b) the financial aid and min wage provided by the govt is grossly insufficient!
Which is correct? Tell me please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :beats-me-man:
how can there be any statistics if there are none compiled or published?
so based on your personal experience, the rest of retirees have to follow suit and have their money restrained?
So, all men must have their money paid into CPF so that they will not squander away on PRC women? :doh:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/sg-wife-sg-men-so-stupid-always-get-cheated-foreign-wives-4172890.html
SG WIFE: SG MEN ARE SO STUPID, ALWAYS GET CHEATED BY FOREIGN WIVES
A Singaporean wife wonders why Singapore men never learn and still fall prey to foreign women after reading news about a Singaporean man who was cheated on by his PRC wife and left in debt.
According to a news report, 50-year-old Mr. Ang first met his PRC wife who was a beer lady at a coffee shop in Johor Bahru where he ran two restaurants. She is a 39 years old divorcee with two children from Heilongjiang, China.
Initially, the PRC woman was very nice and gentle to him and 'serve' him dutifully in bed. Mr. Ang was so mesmerised by her that he spent his entire life savings on her and was even persuaded to sell his two restaurants to buy a house for her children in China.
However, after he registered his marriage with her in Singapore, her attitude changed completely and she began to demand more money from Mr Ang who had to borrow from his friends to support her. He is now in debts and owes more than a hundred thousand dollars.
She even refused to have sex with him and made him a cuckold by having sex with three other men. She went missing after she was caught by Mr. Ang for making love with another man in their home.
TRS reader, UnhappyWife, wrote:
"There are so many such stories, and yet we are hearing even more. Why?? Shouldn't Singapore men be more wary of these foreign women who are apparently here for the money?
"Why Singapore men never learn and still want to get involved with these foreign women? I do not understand what's so great about these women that our local men are so smitten with them!
"This uncle really deserves it! Singapore men should wise up! And we, as a wife, should keep a look out on our husbands so that they won't fall prey to these sluts."
then then then who are the materialistic and demanding women?
Many men couldnt find nice women as there are lesser nowadays
Every where all over the world, if govt want people's money for long term, they have to pay super high interest rates (e.g 30 years bonds rate!).
This is not the case with SG's CPF, pay low rate and lock-in super long term............. :doh:
Precisely !!!
Investment
those who got money can buy shares in the millions
those who do not then buy in thousands
CPF FORCED SAVING
likewise those who has lots of spare cash can contribute more to cpf
those with less or living hand to mouth every mouth contribute less
Ye ye I am all for it :D:D:doh:
Rich and high income people get income tax reduction from 30% to 20/18%....
Poor people pay no income tax but rewarded with GST............... :o
poor people buy 4D and TOTO
go casino also play those small amount table
Rich people no need to buy 4D and TOTO
go casino into VVIP room and play at NO LIMIT table :D
poor people drink todi
rich people drink Lafite and Latour
poor people smoke "black cat" cig
rich people smoke Cuban cigar
poor people shop at pasar malam
rich people go Paris and New York for shopping
CPF min sum don't need to be so high lah..............
If $1000 per month can support a family (of 4 or more and including rental/property instalment), then a payout of $500 per month is more than enough for a person to survive!
We must remember that CPF Life is to provide payment for basic living, not luxury living... Those people seem to have forgotten this fact (but yet they don't forget when it comes to implementing amount for financial aid and min wage amount)...
i fully support the cpf system. those who earn more will have xtra money to invest n do not need the monies in cpf. it's those who earn less that will kpkb about the ms. china mei mei only affect a small group of old fools. Some others will give the money to their children for education, startup biz or watever. we are asian afterall, it's hard to say no when our children ask us for money. the ms of 155k may seems like a big sum but look at how much is the monthly payout? only enough for minimalist style of living.
some pple might tink they can manage their money better den putting in cpf, good for u. but for those who are not so savvy (majority?), the conservative one put money in fd, <1.2%, some kena 'conned' into buying insurance/structured product, worse are those who cheong penny stocks and get themselves burnt.
although the ideal is everyone take care of their own retirement. i tink generally, singaporeans have not reach that level yet.
Rich and high income people get income tax reduction from 30% to 20/18%....
Poor people pay no income tax but rewarded with GST............... :o
Teddy Sir
understand
that's why always said
spare a thought for the poor
Gov always said HDB and CPF is an Investment
Unless it can be exchange for bread and butter
I cant fill my stomach looking at it and marvel.....Wow how rich I am :D
Like some people said, looking at the CPF statement makes him feels so rich, when you have CPF min sum of $155k and medisave of $45k = $200k (!!!) but got no cash on hand to buy food to fill stomach because no job after 55 years old, how hah? Have to keep feeling rich and drink water to fill stomach until 65 years old???? :beats-me-man:
Teddy Sir
understand
that's why always said
spare a thought for the poor
Gov always said HDB and CPF is an Investment
Unless it can be exchange for bread and butter
I cant fill my stomach looking at it and marvel.....Wow how rich I am :D
Like some people said, looking at the CPF statement makes him feels so rich, when you have CPF min sum of $155k and medisave of $45k = $200k (!!!) but got no cash on hand to buy food to fill stomach because no job after 55 years old, how hah? Have to keep feeling rich and drink water to fill stomach until 65 years old???? :beats-me-man:
Teddy Sir
but you have to admire some of our forumers here for being magnanimous which I do, honestly
Regards to the CPF Life
Assuming if I tank off after collecting my payout after only 1 year....my remaining sum will be used to fund other people's payout
I don't mind if it is use for the less fortunate
So, increase the Minimum Sum to as high as possible...I support :D:D
Like some people said, looking at the CPF statement makes him feels so rich, when you have CPF min sum of $155k and medisave of $45k = $200k (!!!) but got no cash on hand to buy food to fill stomach because no job after 55 years old, how hah? Have to keep feeling rich and drink water to fill stomach until 65 years old???? :beats-me-man:
talk cock lah. 50% of the 155K is property pledge, have a cock eye tat always seemly like to skim over that fact.
talk cock lah. 50% of the 155K is property pledge, have a cock eye tat always seemly like to skim over that fact.
I am very generous
did not used Property to pledge
Well said! :cheers1:
Doesn't make any cow sense!
And these people who support increase of CPF min sum have not replied my question yet:
1) CPF min sum of $155k giving payout of $1200 per month if not enough, then
2) how can $300 per month financial aid and $1000 per month min wage for people to support a family (of 4 or more) be enough?!!!!!
So, can these people tell me:
a) Either CPF min sum has been raised too high,
or
b) the financial aid and min wage provided by the govt is grossly insufficient!
Which is correct? Tell me please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :beats-me-man:
talk cock sing song again. who is the one say 1200 not enough. u are the one say not enough!
Assuming if I tank off after collecting my payout after only 1 year....my remaining sum will be used to fund other people's payout
I don't mind if it is use for the less fortunate
So, increase the Minimum Sum to as high as possible...I support :D:D
How does the bequest work?
A bequest is money that you leave to your beneficiaries after your death.
Under the CPF LIFE plans, we will refund all your unused annuity premium and RA savings, if any, after your death.
We will pay any refund into your CPF account. This will then be paid to your beneficiaries along with your remaining CPF savings.
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/CPFSchemes/CPF_LIFE.htm
So, all men must have their money paid into CPF so that they will not squander away on PRC women? :doh:
For Cock like u? YES!
CPF is good when inflation is less than 4%.
Your money will be start to reduce when inflation is more than 4%.
Anyone believe inflation in Singapore is less than 4%?
Everyone agree CPF is good but most believe it can be better.
Would you like to leave your money to someone else to take care like the 401K.
What make you so sure CPF will not be like 401K.
Take the CPF go buy some rights or Reits or high div equity lor.
Every where all over the world, if govt want people's money for long term, they have to pay super high interest rates (e.g 30 years bonds rate!).
This is not the case with SG's CPF, pay low rate and lock-in super long term............. :doh:
No one stop cocks like u invest ur CPF in equity what. n how many lost $$$ ah?
Rich and high income people get income tax reduction from 30% to 20/18%....
Poor people pay no income tax but rewarded with GST............... :o
Rich people buy big ticket items pay more GST, ABSD , SSD, etc also. ur cock sense somehow cannot sync that.
How does the bequest work?
A bequest is money that you leave to your beneficiaries after your death.
Under the CPF LIFE plans, we will refund all your unused annuity premium and RA savings, if any, after your death.
We will pay any refund into your CPF account. This will then be paid to your beneficiaries along with your remaining CPF savings.
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/CPFSchemes/CPF_LIFE.htm
Yo Bro
Thank you for the Verification
pai sey...seldom bother about my cpf :D
did not even know there is a Life Standard Plan and a Life Basic Plan
hahahaha
Thanks again
The middle-income and poor people make up of 80% of people in Singapore and all who don't pay tax previously all ended up also paying more TAXES in the form of GST! GST forms a large part of their income! :doh:
Rich people pay GST but get NETT tax cut from direct INCOME TAX reduction! In summary, NETT they pay less taxes! :eek:
Rich people buy big ticket items pay more GST, ABSD , SSD, etc also. ur cock sense somehow cannot sync that.
The middle-income and poor people make up of 80% of people in Singapore and all who don't pay tax previously all ended up also paying more TAXES in the form of GST! GST forms a large part of their income! :doh:
Rich people pay GST but get NETT tax cut from direct INCOME TAX reduction! In summary, NETT they pay less taxes! :eek:
Talk cock again.
GST tax revenue forms 22% of all tax collected in 2013 When u factor in the Rich consumption on property tax 19% Property + STAMP duty. plus the top 20% pay 80% of the Tax which collected is 19% ur Rich pay more TAX coz they consume more!!!
19% + 15.2% = 34% TAX collected are paid by the well off! Thats not factoring their spending on consumer goods that is collected in the GST which contribute 22%.! even if u take 50% spit thats 34%+11%= 45% tax are paid by the rich. The remaining 31% comes from corporate taxes!
don't want to pay more tax consume less! u have a choice COCK! no one force u to go buy a Condo every other day!
Don't need to twist and turn here. You can try your trick on the uneducated and the old but many people know what GST is all about, regardless of your twist and turn.................
What has ABSD and SSD got to do with GST? :o
Talk cock again.
GST tax revenue forms 22% of all tax collected in 2013 When u factor in the Rich consumption on property tax 19% Property + STAMP duty. plus the top 20% pay 80% of the Tax which collected is 19% ur Rich pay more TAX coz they consume more!!!
19% + 15.2% = 34% TAX collected are paid by the well off! Thats not factoring their spending on consumer goods that is collected in the GST which contribute 22%.! even if u take 50% spit thats 34%+11%= 45% tax are paid by the rich. The remaining 31% comes from corporate taxes!
don't want to pay more tax consume less! u have a choice COCK! no one force u to go buy a Condo every other day!
Don't need to twist and turn here. You can try your trick on the uneducated and the old but many people know what GST is all about, regardless of your twist and turn.................
What has ABSD and SSD got to do with GST? :o
Cock... TAaX the T behind GS! U dumb cock!
1 Truth I see about CPF and their concerted party is that it acts and behave like insurance companies:
- They take your money to invest, earn say 8-18% return (did Temasek say they earn about 18% p.a. over the long term?) but give you 2.5% return only............ :doh:
1 Truth I see about CPF and their concerted party is that it acts and behave like insurance companies:
- They take your money to invest, earn say 8-18% return (did Temasek say they earn about 18% p.a. over the long term?) but give you 2.5% return only............ :doh:
U don't like it ? Think I can do better ? U are free to invest it equity urself. Want the gain but don't want the risk! U sound like one of those cock fly by night guarantee u 24% interest gold scams!
U don't like it ? Think I can do better ? U are free to invest it equity urself. Want the gain but don't want the risk! U sound like one of those cock fly by night guarantee u 24% interest gold scams!
why can't we ask Ho Ching and friends to manage the CPF funds?
annualised returns 13% over so many years very good le.
we not so greedy ask for 24% returns, only 13% sama-sama Temasek.
is asking Ho Ching to manage CPF funds such an unreasonable request?
why can't we ask Ho Ching and friends to manage the CPF funds?
annualised returns 13% over so many years very good le.
we not so greedy ask for 24% returns, only 13% sama-sama Temasek.
is asking Ho Ching to manage CPF funds such an unreasonable request?
Well like u say annualized . So that yr u retire is negative how? People can take it? We invest our own $ also some time make sometime don't. But we avg it out over a time scale it might look like 6-8% . Didn't do properly at a emergency time.need $ have go bite bullet that the hit sell even When market is down.
Well if not happy with 2.5% can always take the OA out go diy. Not everyone have the know how to diy n make $
Well like u say annualized . So that yr u retire is negative how? People can take it? We invest our own $ also some time make sometime don't. But we avg it out over a time scale it might look like 6-8% . Didn't do properly at a emergency time.need $ have go bite bullet that the hit sell even When market is down.
how does it become negative?
lets say from 25-55. sure have up and downs. but over the years annualised at 13%. so retire at 55, sure up.
under the capable hands of HoChing, when has the returns of TH has gone negative in any year? That's why I only want CPF to be managed by HoChing, and nobody else. GIC returns sucks. MAS returns sucks. Temasek returns, yummmm.
i am not sure about most people, but personally i am more of thrill seeker rather than investor.
i rather get depressed about getting 8% returns in 1 year and euphoric getting 20% returns in another year rather than getting emotionless at a flat 2.5/4%
yup, i do get depressed when cpf hits 8%.
does anybody else get depressed when cpf rates hit 8%?
Well if not happy with 2.5% can always take the OA out go diy. Not everyone have the know how to diy n make $
i agreed 1000% with your statement. as you said, not everyone know how to diy n make$.
that's why i sincerely hope our dear HoChing can manage the CPF funds.
An appeal to HC.
Dear HC, can you manage our CPF funds?
We entrust our CPF funds in your hands.
We entrust the quality of our retirement life in your hands.
sign
hopeful
Good idea.. get HC to manage our cpf.. dun mind getting 8% pa returns.. if she can make more, then she gets a bigger bonus.. if she loses yr after yr ? Then how ? Can change fund manager ? Afterall, malaysia epf getting 6-8% return each yr.. maybe we should consult rhem how they did it ?
Or can list our swf ? They can Use ipo $ n left our cpf alone.. :-)
Good idea.. get HC to manage our cpf.. dun mind getting 8% pa returns.. if she can make more, then she gets a bigger bonus.. if she loses yr after yr ? Then how ? Can change fund manager ? Afterall, malaysia epf getting 6-8% return each yr.. maybe we should consult rhem how they did it ?
Or can list our swf ? They can Use ipo $ n left our cpf alone.. :-)
you of little faith. :doh::doh:
it takes a supremely beautiful and supremely brainy woman like HC to snare an alpha-alpha-alpha male like LHL.
you think a mermaid with thunder thighs can snare an alpha-alpha-alpha male?
how can you doubt the capabilities of our dear HC ?
it takes a supremely beautiful and supremely brainy woman like HC to snare an alpha-alpha-alpha male like LHL.
u don't need to be good in many things, just need to be good in ONE thing...
:D
Good idea.. get HC to manage our cpf.. dun mind getting 8% pa returns.. if she can make more, then she gets a bigger bonus.. if she loses yr after yr ? Then how ? Can change fund manager ? Afterall, malaysia epf getting 6-8% return each yr.. maybe we should consult rhem how they did it ?
Or can list our swf ? They can Use ipo $ n left our cpf alone.. :-)
malaysia bank borrowing rates currently is how much? 3- 4 %?
how does it become negative?
lets say from 25-55. sure have up and downs. but over the years annualised at 13%. so retire at 55, sure up.
under the capable hands of HoChing, when has the returns of TH has gone negative in any year? That's why I only want CPF to be managed by HoChing, and nobody else. GIC returns sucks. MAS returns sucks. Temasek returns, yummmm.
i am not sure about most people, but personally i am more of thrill seeker rather than investor.
i rather get depressed about getting 8% returns in 1 year and euphoric getting 20% returns in another year rather than getting emotionless at a flat 2.5/4%
yup, i do get depressed when cpf hits 8%.
does anybody else get depressed when cpf rates hit 8%?
i agreed 1000% with your statement. as you said, not everyone know how to diy n make$.
that's why i sincerely hope our dear HoChing can manage the CPF funds.
An appeal to HC.
Dear HC, can you manage our CPF funds?
We entrust our CPF funds in your hands.
We entrust the quality of our retirement life in your hands.
sign
hopeful
I think u should put ur $$ with Barny Maddoff he pay u Bao Jia regardless what the market situation is good interest. I think that's the type of schemes that suit ur appetite of returns. High interest zero risk type investment. but u might need to fly to US penatary to pay him a visit though. Last I heard he needed some quiet time to himself.
I think u should put ur $$ with Barny Maddoff he pay u Bao Jia regardless what the market situation is good interest. I think that's the type of schemes that suit ur appetite of returns. High interest zero risk type investment. but u might need to fly to US penatary to pay him a visit though. Last I heard he needed some quiet time to himself.
How many times do i have to say this?
I want Ho Ching to manage our CPF funds and get returns like Temasek Holding's and nobody else to manage.
Do you have any doubts about HoChing's abilities?
Do you have any doubts about TH's published returns?
Is that why you beat about the bush, suggest this person and that person?
Tell us why you dont want HoChing to manage our CPF funds?
u don't need to be good in many things, just need to be good in ONE thing...
:D
gentlemen dont speak of that ONE thing :)
anyway, an alpha x3 male is not interested in marrying women that is good in that ONE thing. Fling yes, marry no.
How many times do i have to say this?
I want Ho Ching to manage our CPF funds and get returns like Temasek Holding's and nobody else to manage.
Do you have any doubts about HoChing's abilities?
Do you have any doubts about TH's published returns?
Is that why you beat about the bush, suggest this person and that person?
Tell us why you dont want HoChing to manage our CPF funds?
Then go ask her. maybe u should write to her. Good for u if she manage for u. Pls report back ur progress.!
Then go ask her. maybe u should write to her. Good for u if she manage for u. Pls report back ur progress.!
now we are getting somewhere.
thank you for supporting HoChing to manage our CPF funds.
she is a shy flower.
if one person ask of course, dont answer.
but if general public proclaiming, she would accept la.
can I add your signature to the petition for her to manage our CPF fund.
ps.
from:
http://www.temasek.com.sg/mediacentre/mediacontacts
looks like the email addresses at TH is made up of first and last name,
so after collecting the signatures, i will email to
[email protected] or
[email protected]
now we are getting somewhere.
thank you for supporting HoChing to manage our CPF funds.
she is a shy flower.
if one person ask of course, dont answer.
but if general public proclaiming, she would accept la.
can I add your signature to the petition for her to manage our CPF fund.
ps.
from:
http://www.temasek.com.sg/mediacentre/mediacontacts
looks like the email addresses at TH is made up of first and last name,
so after collecting the signatures, i will email to
[email protected] or
[email protected]
I can manage my own OA. u are the one who die die want some one bao u 10% right? go do your own asking mah. open mouth also lazy?
Too bad, we are not allowed to take risk to invest in the best places we want when money tied up in CPF! No freedom to invest overseas, can't invest more than 30% in equities, can't invest in hedge funds, private equities, venture capital etc! Money tied up so long term and no freedom to invest best instrument we want yet give so little interest! :doh:
U don't like it ? Think I can do better ? U are free to invest it equity urself. Want the gain but don't want the risk! U sound like one of those cock fly by night guarantee u 24% interest gold scams!
Is this anything new about minority? :cheers1:
How many times do i have to say this?
I want Ho Ching to manage our CPF funds and get returns like Temasek Holding's and nobody else to manage.
Do you have any doubts about HoChing's abilities?
Do you have any doubts about TH's published returns?
Is that why you beat about the bush, suggest this person and that person?
Tell us why you dont want HoChing to manage our CPF funds?
Too bad, we are not allowed to take risk to invest in the best places we want when money tied up in CPF! No freedom to invest overseas, can't invest more than 30% in equities, can't invest in hedge funds, private equities, venture capital etc! Money tied up so long term and no freedom to invest best instrument we want yet give so little interest! :doh:
u already say can use in equity. so? talk cock again. ur typical man in the street dont even know what hedge funds are. as usual talk cock.
Tell us, use in what equity? Why only equity in Singapore which is 1 the lousiest market?! Why can't invest overseas equities? :doh:
Why can't invest in foreign currencies when now is the best time to do so?! :simmering:
u already say can use in equity. so? talk cock again. ur typical man in the street dont even know what hedge funds are. as usual talk cock.
Tell us, use in what equity? Why only equity in Singapore which is 1 the lousiest market?! Why can't invest overseas equities? :doh:
Why can't invest in foreign currencies when now is the best time to do so?! :simmering:
Talk cock lah. 1stly if u want to invest in foreign equity. there are a bloody whole bunch of USD ETF on SGX! 2nd now US is the best time? Wat a con job!!! US is all time hight everyone waiting for it to have a major correction!!!! 3rd if all the avg joe have put the $$ all in US during the 09 it will all have gone kar put!
And the avg joe in Singapore mostly donno hegde fund donno much abt US equity . Some even EFT only starting to get the hang of it. and U! are the Rich 20% that KPKB! TALK COCK SING SONG NO.1!!!!!
Talk cock! Buy USD ETF in Singapore, the thinly traded market?! :tsk-tsk:
You don't even know 1st most important rule in investment/trading?! :banghead:
Talk cock lah. 1stly if u want to invest in foreign equity. there are a bloody whole bunch of USD ETF on SGX! 2nd now US is the best time? Wat a con job!!! US is all time hight everyone waiting for it to have a major correction!!!! 3rd if all the avg joe have put the $$ all in US during the 09 it will all have gone kar put!
And the avg joe in Singapore mostly donno hegde fund donno much abt US equity . Some even EFT only starting to get the hang of it. and U! are the Rich 20% that KPKB! TALK COCK SING SONG NO.1!!!!!
Talk cock! Buy USD ETF in Singapore, the thinly traded market?! :tsk-tsk:
You don't even know 1st most important rule in investment/trading?! :banghead:
here comes the COCK talk again. Do you really even understand ETF before COCKs come out of your mouth? here eat this cockanarden!
have u heard of Market Makers in ETF?
Market Makers have a slightly different role to APs. Market Makers play an important role in ensuring there is sufficient liquidity on the secondary market by providing continuous bid and offer prices acting as both the purchaser or seller of the ETF units, and applying for additional ETF units, where necessary, to meet investor demand.
1 bloody stupid idiot talking about market makers for singapore market? The bid-ask spread is so big that an elephant can pass through!
Just by what you said, I am very sure you are not a seasoned investor in equity instruments! Can only talk cock but no knowledge and no substance NO NUT! :D
here comes the COCK talk again. Do you really even understand ETF before COCKs come out of your mouth? here eat this cockanarden!
have u heard of Market Makers in ETF?
Market Makers have a slightly different role to APs. Market Makers play an important role in ensuring there is sufficient liquidity on the secondary market by providing continuous bid and offer prices acting as both the purchaser or seller of the ETF units, and applying for additional ETF units, where necessary, to meet investor demand.
I can manage my own OA. u are the one who die die want some one bao u 10% right? go do your own asking mah. open mouth also lazy?
yes you can manage your own OA? Can the rest of people manage their own OA? Can the rest of the 80% managed their own OA?
You dont want bottom income earners to earn higher rates in their OA?
yes you can manage your own OA? Can the rest of people manage their own OA? Can the rest of the 80% managed their own OA?
You dont want bottom income earners to earn higher rates in their OA?
retirees can take money out and invest in all these TLC bonds, that offer better interest, albeit with price risks. just some examples,
Capitaland Limited 2.95% 03 Sep 2016 SGD
3.22% 22 Jun 2022 SGD
City Developments Limited 3.22% 08 Apr 2015 SGD
2.565% 04 Feb 2013 SGD
DBS Group Holdings Ltd 4.47% 15 Jul 2021 SGD
Oversea Chinese Banking Corp 3.78% 28 Nov 2017 SGD
5.6% 27 Mar 2019 SGD
United Overseas Bank Ltd 4.95% 30 Sep 2016 SGD
yes you can manage your own OA? Can the rest of people manage their own OA? Can the rest of the 80% managed their own OA?
You dont want bottom income earners to earn higher rates in their OA?
Hopeful rich people like you guys should not be greedy. Rich are the ones with High OA to give high interest to OA for everyone who will benefit the most? can I ask? the Rich will benefit the most.
Government can top up the lower income OA instead of paying high interest coz the high interest only benefit the Rich most becoz they have the most to gain from high interest.
retirees can take money out and invest in all these TLC bonds, that offer better interest, albeit with price risks. just some examples,
Capitaland Limited 2.95% 03 Sep 2016 SGD
3.22% 22 Jun 2022 SGD
City Developments Limited 3.22% 08 Apr 2015 SGD
2.565% 04 Feb 2013 SGD
DBS Group Holdings Ltd 4.47% 15 Jul 2021 SGD
Oversea Chinese Banking Corp 3.78% 28 Nov 2017 SGD
5.6% 27 Mar 2019 SGD
United Overseas Bank Ltd 4.95% 30 Sep 2016 SGD
Again this is rich people example. Can I ask what is the min value to participate in the bonds to get these interest rates? if I only have $10K can I get a not?
Let me help you with the answer
"How to buy corporate bonds in Singapore
Singapore corporate bonds are only available to accredited investors The minimum investment sum is S$250,000. "
http://www.singapore-stock-analysis.com/corporate-bonds.html
Again this is rich people example. Can I ask what is the min value to participate in the bonds to get these interest rates? if I only have $10K can I get a not?
Let me help you with the answer
"How to buy corporate bonds in Singapore
Singapore corporate bonds are only available to accredited investors The minimum investment sum is S$250,000. "
http://www.singapore-stock-analysis.com/corporate-bonds.html
apa tu cakap? only rich people want higher interest rates for their money? anyone with a right mind would want it. if citizens can withdraw the $ and invest wisely to earn better returns (with relatively low risks), why not?
half of the retirees will withdraw their $ and invest in chiobu with negative returns :D. that is the scary part. who is going to look after them when that happen?
Like that all those housewives even worse, no CPF to withdraw, how?
Perhaps govt should legislate all housewives to contribute to CPF? :rolleyes:
Also, men need to serve NS, women don't need. Is it time to legislate that women also need to serve 2 years NS to be fair to all? :p
half of the retirees will withdraw their $ and invest in chiobu with negative returns :D. that is the scary part. who is going to look after them when that happen?
apa tu cakap? only rich people want higher interest rates for their money? anyone with a right mind would want it. if citizens can withdraw the $ and invest wisely to earn better returns (with relatively low risks), why not?
u have not answer my question. like what you ask for 10% flat interest in CPF isnt the Rich who benifit most? those who have the most CPF are mostly the high earners and smart investors who make a killing in the stock market then roll it back to CPF in bad times still get 10%?
The poor wont not have the $$ power to do anything nor the type of gain from the 10% on the Rich dude like u?
Poor get workfare. tops ups etc. those are more targeted at the pooer people that cannot contribute enough to the CPF and the interest rate today cap at 60K for 4% are also preventing distributing too much gain the cash rich!
So u need to get ur argument right you want to argue the poor is dis vantage or u want to add avantage to the rich? i sense a flipping here n there. u need to make up your mind.
The citizens who are better off want more gain than 2.5%? they have many avenue. take out buy 2nd prop, put in equity , buy Gold!
The not so well off mostly are concern risk adverse. how many can make the 2.5%? take out they will just put in FD for 1%. but they might not even get 1% coz min u need 50K! those struggling with min sum wont even have 50K.
u need to put some thoughts to those who are not so savy.
Question : Is there a problem with CPF return before the GFC in 2007.
The return of CPF was not a issue but after GFC in 2007, CPF return become a big issue, why?
When MAS print money, did they give the money to CPF so that the money in CPF not depreciated.
Now that the money is depreciated, who is going to topup.
Those who have no property and did not buy after 2006 till 2013, who is going to pay for their depreciate money deposit.
e.g.
I have SGD 100,000 in CPF, being a good boy I do nothing happily collecting my 2.6 %. Then I found the other half of me use this money to buy a PC for SGD 535,000 and in 2010 it value at SGD 1,550,000. Now I become very angry because my CPF return is soooooooo low. Who should I blame.
\
u have not answer my question. like what you ask for 10% flat interest in CPF isnt the Rich who benifit most? those who have the most CPF are mostly the high earners and smart investors who make a killing in the stock market then roll it back to CPF in bad times still get 10%?
The poor wont not have the $$ power to do anything nor the type of gain from the 10% on the Rich dude like u?
Poor get workfare. tops ups etc. those are more targeted at the pooer people that cannot contribute enough to the CPF and the interest rate today cap at 60K for 4% are also preventing distributing too much gain the cash rich!
So u need to get ur argument right you want to argue the poor is dis vantage or u want to add avantage to the rich? i sense a flipping here n there. u need to make up your mind.
The citizens who are better off want more gain than 2.5%? they have many avenue. take out buy 2nd prop, put in equity , buy Gold!
The not so well off mostly are concern risk adverse. how many can make the 2.5%? take out they will just put in FD for 1%. but they might not even get 1% coz min u need 50K! those struggling with min sum wont even have 50K.
u need to put some thoughts to those who are not so savy.
eh, gong dai! what on earth are u talking about?! it's about having the freedom of choice. look at ST forums, there is a guy arguing against the notion of "Government knows best". going by your stupid arguments, aren't you are then penalizing those who are savvy for the sake of those who aren't?
as all opponents of CPF-Life had and are arguing, live it to the CPF account holders to decide what to do with their own money. if you aren't savvy, live your savings with the program. kum gong, even without CPF-Life, all account holders had the choice to park their money with CPF and not withdraw it.
just don't force a program down everyone's throats. is it that hard to have an opt-in option?
eh, gong dai! what on earth are u talking about?! it's about having the freedom of choice. look at ST forums, there is a guy arguing against the notion of "Government knows best". going by your stupid arguments, aren't you are then penalizing those who are savvy for the sake of those who aren't?
as all opponents of CPF-Life had and are arguing, live it to the CPF account holders to decide what to do with their own money. if you aren't savvy, live your savings with the program. kum gong, even without CPF-Life, all account holders had the choice to park their money with CPF and not withdraw it.
just don't force a program down everyone's throats. is it that hard to have an opt-in option?
Dont bull shit me. People want 10% right can u honestly answer me that don't benefit the rich more? Poor are hand to mouth might not even contribute CPF! How demand to pay on selves 10% on CPF not be self fulling selfishness ?
So can I ask you. IF the acct holders squander, lost, and cannot save and run out of cash before 65. who will they turn to for help? u? cut ur pay? give more free hand outs? come from where?
if no free handout or help they will have to resort to worst of vice loan shark, stealing? etc
u are really black hearted to hope people take out their $ and spend it then go beg. Yes those people KPKB 1 are like you the rich ones who know what to do with their $. What abt those who donno what to do with it? IF everyone who knows take out all the CPF and all u have left in the CPF are all the low income folk as a whole entity you think CPF would have the ability to support them? CPF can go to insurance to bargain for a good bargain? Ur CPF life will have a good deal?
DONT be SELFISH u dumbo. all u think is urself. look ard you we like in a society not your own little island where you only think about yourself.!
u are really black hearted to hope people take out their $ and spend it then go beg. Yes those people KPKB 1 are like you the rich ones who know what to do with their $. What abt those who donno what to do with it? IF everyone who knows take out all the CPF and all u have left in the CPF are all the low income folk as a whole entity you think CPF would have the ability to support them? CPF can go to insurance to bargain for a good bargain? Ur CPF life will have a good deal?
DONT be SELFISH u dumbo. all u think is urself. look ard you we like in a society not your own little island where you only think about yourself.!
eh, GONG DAI - go read what the writer wrote in ST forum. did he or any of us argue that there must be handouts after CPF monies are squandered? you mean all these years the government was paying out monies to old uncles to squandered their CPF on china mei meis?!? so, all those who are arguing for a choice = black-hearted?! then we have tons of black hearted singaporeans around.
CPF bargain insurance for what?! wah piang - CPF OA = medisave program?!??!?!?! hello, CPF life is an annuity program. CPF can't support low income people after the rich withdraw their monies??!?!?! please lah, at least read through what you type so that you don't get ridiculed by self-inflicted nonsense
Don't need to argue with him lah, he is the kind who say raise GST to help the poor! Now for so long GST never raised, don't want to help the poor anymore??? Ha ha ha! :p
eh, GONG DAI - go read what the writer wrote in ST forum. did he or any of us argue that there must be handouts after CPF monies are squandered? you mean all these years the government was paying out monies to old uncles to squandered their CPF on china mei meis?!? so, all those who are arguing for a choice = black-hearted?! then we have tons of black hearted singaporeans around.
CPF bargain insurance for what?! wah piang - CPF OA = medisave program?!??!?!?! hello, CPF life is an annuity program. CPF can't support low income people after the rich withdraw their monies??!?!?! please lah, at least read through what you type so that you don't get ridiculed by self-inflicted nonsense
Don't forget the medisave $45k you can't even touch and also ever increasing (on top of the CPF min sum of $155k)! :banghead:
eh, GONG DAI - go read what the writer wrote in ST forum. did he or any of us argue that there must be handouts after CPF monies are squandered? you mean all these years the government was paying out monies to old uncles to squandered their CPF on china mei meis?!? so, all those who are arguing for a choice = black-hearted?! then we have tons of black hearted singaporeans around.
CPF bargain insurance for what?! wah piang - CPF OA = medisave program?!??!?!?! hello, CPF life is an annuity program. CPF can't support low income people after the rich withdraw their monies??!?!?! please lah, at least read through what you type so that you don't get ridiculed by self-inflicted nonsense
Don't forget the medisave $45k you can't even touch and also ever increasing (on top of the CPF min sum of $155k)! :banghead:
talk cock again. cannot use medisave for medical? insurance? u mean touch for you to go spend on mei mei in geylang is it?
eh, GONG DAI - go read what the writer wrote in ST forum. did he or any of us argue that there must be handouts after CPF monies are squandered? you mean all these years the government was paying out monies to old uncles to squandered their CPF on china mei meis?!? so, all those who are arguing for a choice = black-hearted?! then we have tons of black hearted singaporeans around.
CPF bargain insurance for what?! wah piang - CPF OA = medisave program?!??!?!?! hello, CPF life is an annuity program. CPF can't support low income people after the rich withdraw their monies??!?!?! please lah, at least read through what you type so that you don't get ridiculed by self-inflicted nonsense
hey tai gong. u want to quote a ST forum article? Pls post it here. if not who the hell know what you rare mumbling abt.
CPF LIFE is not form of annuity ? :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: Kong kum one the universal coverage on the pioneer group how is the negotiated ? can they exclude all the healthly ones only have the sick ones ? which insurance will take that package?
KAM eh!
hey tai gong. u want to quote a ST forum article? Pls post it here. if not who the hell know what you rare mumbling abt.
CPF LIFE is not form of annuity ? :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: Kong kum one the universal coverage on the pioneer group how is the negotiated ? can they exclude all the healthly ones only have the sick ones ? which insurance will take that package?
KAM eh!
gong dai, no $ to buy yesterday's ST?!? forgot you're painfully stupid that you aren't even able to go look up on ST's website.
kum gong, thanks for agreeing with me that CPF Life is an annuity program. How on earth is CPF Life linked to the Pioneer package? please lah, even our finance minister never hinted of a causal link so don't try barking up your senseless arguments the wrong tree.
Hopeful rich people like you guys should not be greedy. Rich are the ones with High OA to give high interest to OA for everyone who will benefit the most? can I ask? the Rich will benefit the most.
Government can top up the lower income OA instead of paying high interest coz the high interest only benefit the Rich most becoz they have the most to gain from high interest.
funny, you mentioned the rich benefit the most from higher interest rates.
total cpf contribution is capped. a billionaire cannot put in $1million each month into CPF account.
cpf as a % of wealth for the top 20% is relatively small.
cpf as a % of wealth for the bottom 80% is relatively big.
so when CPF rates increase, it is the bottom 80% that would benefit more.
it is also funny that just because rich benefit the most, no higher rates for CPF.
how about the doing away with the estate tax? rich people benefit the most from the abolishing of the estate tax.
Rich people also benefit the most from implementation of GST because they in return got a 10% income tax cuts and 12% business income tax cuts! :rolleyes:
funny, you mentioned the rich benefit the most from higher interest rates.
total cpf contribution is capped. a billionaire cannot put in $1million each month into CPF account.
cpf as a % of wealth for the top 20% is relatively small.
cpf as a % of wealth for the bottom 80% is relatively big.
so when CPF rates increase, it is the bottom 80% that would benefit more.
it is also funny that just because rich benefit the most, no higher rates for CPF.
how about the doing away with the estate tax? rich people benefit the most from the abolishing of the estate tax.
Don't need to argue with him lah, he is the kind who say raise GST to help the poor! Now for so long GST never raised, don't want to help the poor anymore??? Ha ha ha! :p
actually i like GST.. GST will take care of those who under declare their income..
i once worked for a local business.. they set up 1 company after another to avoid GST (once biz hit 1mio the company have to pay GST)...
during that time, i saw them buy cars for themself and their relatives working in the company and all charged to company expenses.. can like that meh.. so GST will ensure that they be taxed based on what they consumed.
imagine the salaried workers like you and me have to pay our income tax... and these businessmen and their relatives escape from it...this will be unfair right...
of course with GST, our income tax must reduce lar... best dont need to pay for salaried accounts...
You have to be fair for the majority of middle-incomers whose income is not high and pay little to ZERO income taxes, whose young children and aged parents don't pay any income taxes, suddenly these middle-incomers need to pay GST for themselves and their children and parents to live! :tsk-tsk:
As to under-declaring income, this is a crime and loss of state's revenue! It is the job of govt to nail them and make they pay, especially when they already paying less taxes because of business and income tax cut from 30% to 17% and 20%!
As to what you say, obvious this is illegal! Looks like this is common and govt should just plug these corporate tax losses loophole! :tsk-tsk:
actually i like GST.. GST will take care of those who under declare their income..
i once worked for a local business.. they set up 1 company after another to avoid GST (once biz hit 1mio the company have to pay GST)...
during that time, i saw them buy cars for themself and their relatives working in the company and all charged to company expenses.. can like that meh.. so GST will ensure that they be taxed based on what they consumed.
imagine the salaried workers like you and me have to pay our income tax... and these businessmen and their relatives escape from it...this will be unfair right...
of course with GST, our income tax must reduce lar... best dont need to pay for salaried accounts...
i think hard to strike a fair balance.
i always thought about this.. i wish that when I am employed, GST is high and income tax is zero.. but when I retire, i wish the other way..:D (just my wishful thinking only)
honestly, how to implement a tax policy that will satisfy everyone... for me, rather than be unhappy, find some alternatives to work around it lor...life must still go on..
btw, i have not been paying taxes for a few years:ashamed1:.. due to tax rebates from children... but i guess have to start paying very soon once the rebates are used up.
What is fair?
Fair means if you earn more, you pay more tax. Otherwise, any honorable people would expect people who earn less to pay more tax?
But the world is now getting skewed, with all kind of taxes being levied on people that has nothing to do with income (be it from personal income or businesses), and letting people who earn more income pay less taxes while people who earn less are now made to shoulder higher taxes in other form (E.g. GST etc).
Honestly, why would anybody expect and make the young, the old and unable to work anymore, the disabled, the handicapped, and all those people who has no income to pay taxes (in any form, such as GST)? :banghead:
In the very least, GST or VAT or whatever implemented in other developed countries (e.g. UK) exempt basic necessities (inclusive of medical and children stuffs) from GST/VAT!
i think hard to strike a fair balance.
i always thought about this.. i wish that when I am employed, GST is high and income tax is zero.. but when I retire, i wish the other way..:D (just my wishful thinking only)
honestly, how to implement a tax policy that will satisfy everyone... for me, rather than be unhappy, find some alternatives to work around it lor...life must still go on..
btw, i have not been paying taxes for a few years:ashamed1:.. due to tax rebates from children... but i guess have to start paying very soon once the rebates are used up.
As i said, there is no implementation that will make people happy.
In SG, when I make 3k (think dont need to pay income tax right), how much would I consume and pay GST? I think not so much right?
Not siding the rich, but I think they pay more GST for what they consume: cars, fine dining, jewellery, country clubs. Not sure how much the poor actually pays towards GST when they eat in hawker center? i spent 90% eating in hawker center
not an expert but if a policy were to tax the higher income heavily, then it may reach a point that there is no incentive to work harder... the full potential of a salaried worker/business men can be achieved, then i think the tax system is not doing right...
all of us think differently, there will be no end to this kind of discussion
suddenly some people as usual like to gleen through and forget the less well to to. get GST credit rebates. even middle income family also get GST rebates but just less than the low income.
IF the middle income family choose to spend more then thats the excess that they would have to pay for consumption.
The rich can always park the $ offshore and not get tax. So scraping GST help ? LOL.
like ST example the rich business man can always setup more business spend and charge it to the company as expense get GST rebates to company. So how u tax those high income?
everything complain Fairness. How come the Rich can buy Prada and I cannot? How is that Fair? Why the Rich can drive nice car? how is that fair? Why the Rich can eat big meals and fancy restaurant how is that fair?
Everyday complain not fair. why not focus the engery on getting oneself there than sit on a lazy ass whining.
Mr Inderjit Singh : "things have become tougher for some middle and low income Singaporeans" over the last three years.
This is despite all the GST rebates that minority is talking about. So food for thought? Well, it is obvious, especially the middle-incomers are the worst off, because of GST, commercial rentals being jacked up and businesses passed the costs down to consumers, etc contributing to significant rise in costs of living while wage increase is pittant compared to rise in costs of living!
While the poorest still get rebates and financial helps, the middle-incomers are left to fence for themselves and are the real worst-off of the lot!
Now the poor (in some sectors) get further help by getting MIN WAGE (which minority denied that "progressive wage" is MIN WAGE!) while again the middle-incomes get ZERO help!. Now Mr Singh confirmed "progressive wage" is MIN WAGE!
Calling on minority, you have been exposed as a LIAR (by Mr Singh's statements!)
suddenly some people as usual like to gleen through and forget the less well to to. get GST credit rebates. even middle income family also get GST rebates but just less than the low income.
IF the middle income family choose to spend more then thats the excess that they would have to pay for consumption.
The rich can always park the $ offshore and not get tax. So scraping GST help ? LOL.
like ST example the rich business man can always setup more business spend and charge it to the company as expense get GST rebates to company. So how u tax those high income?
everything complain Fairness. How come the Rich can buy Prada and I cannot? How is that Fair? Why the Rich can drive nice car? how is that fair? Why the Rich can eat big meals and fancy restaurant how is that fair?
Everyday complain not fair. why not focus the engery on getting oneself there than sit on a lazy ass whining.
=============================================
PAP MP Inderjit Singh: Not every Singaporean's life is better
Tuesday, May 27, 2014 - 17:45
AsiaOne
SINGAPORE - Mr Inderjit Singh said in a lengthy post on Facebook that "things have become tougher for some middle and low income Singaporeans" over the last three years.
The PAP MP asked in his commentary: "We must ask ourselves, are all the amenities and entertainment places we built in the last 10 years being enjoyed by mainly Singaporeans or by new arrivals and foreigners?"
In the Facebook post he put up on Monday night, he looked more closely at the disconnect between Singapore's wealth and well-being of Singaporeans, as well as how policies are made here.
[email protected]
His post on Facebook:
Response to the President Address At the Re-Opening of 2nd Session of Parliament May 2014
Introduction
1. Parliament is debating the President's address this week. I wanted to share my thoughts on what the government has achieved in the past 3 three years and what more it can do in the remainder of this 12th term of parliament. Since I am currently traveling and not in Singapore, I decided to share my thoughts through this post instead.
2. Post GE2011, the government got a very clear signal from Singaporeans about the issues that affected them most and the government spent considerable time fixing these problems, which were created as a result of a decade long series of policy misjudgment linked to its "growth at all cost" economic strategy. We must all agree, that the government has done well in many areas, particularly the manner in which it sorted out issues in the housing, healthcare and even transport to some extent.
3. The icing on the cake has been the Pioneer Generation Package, which is unprecedented in Singapore on many counts and shows that the government is taking an effort to move beyond dollars and cents, to inculcate care and compassion in policy making. But, really though, beyond the Pioneer Package, if someone were to ask me honestly whether the lives of all Singaporeans have become better in these last few years, I would not be able to do that.
The disconnect between the country's wealth and Singaporeans' well being
4. Yes, I would agree that Singapore as a country and as an economy has improved. Yes Singapore has become richer, but not all Singaporeans have seen an improvement in their daily lives. I mean it is really a noteworthy achievement that while most of the developed world remains mired in an economic crisis that can be traced back to more than 5 years ago, Singapore has emerged relatively unscathed, grown from strength to strength and even restructured and repositioned its economy in the meanwhile. But did every Singaporean benefit from this? I would say there is still a significant section of our society who didn't. Did every Singaporean's life become better? Sadly, not every Singaporean's did.
5. In fact, things have become tougher for some middle and low income Singaporeans. While wages may have risen, the cost of living outpaced the rise in wages and therefore life has become tougher for some unless they adjust their lifestyles downwards to live comfortably in their own country. If this is the message for Singaporeans as has been suggested by some, I think it is a sad thing because for many years since independence Singaporeans had expected and also achieved better and better standards of living and aimed higher and higher had their aspirations met or exceeded. The growing income disparity coupled with stagnant wages at the bottom and a sudden increase in population has put undue pressure on lower income Singaporeans. Of course the rich are very happy - high end restaurants and places of entertainment are always busy and full. We must ask ourselves, are all the amenities and entertainment places we built in the last 10 years being enjoyed by mainly Singaporeans or by new arrivals and foreigners? I really wonder whether this is what we want as a nation.
6. We progressed from 3rd world to 1st world in just 1 generation - a great success. So where is the disconnect between the country's wealth, which has grown tremendously, and Singaporeans' wealth. While indicators may seem to indicate most Singaporeans are richer, I believe they may be so because of things such as assets enhancement, which may not mean everyone's life became better because they actually have less disposable income. While the government wants to solve this through unlocking asset wealth for retirement spending at old age it may not be the best way.
7. I would caution against overly emphasizing the role of the home in providing for retirement adequacy. To achieve this goal of a home being a source of retirement funding, asset appreciation would be beneficial. However, the appreciation of housing prices can cause serious anxiety among the young who are looking to settle down and start a family. Asset appreciation can, very simplistically, be seen as an intergenerational transfer of wealth - the young working Singaporean is paying the elderly retiree an inflated price for their home.
8. Asset appreciation through increase in property prices also has an illusory effect on a person's wealth. Even though my home price has increased constantly over the years I am not any richer till I dispose of my property. But in that instance, I would have to purchase a replacement home, which would of course be more expensive. Constantly increasing property prices, in my opinion, are not a good thing for our country. With our limited land space, a meltdown of the property mar-ket like that seen in certain American states in 2008/09 may be unlikely, but the fear is still real and justified.
9. What worries me most is how our young see their future in Singapore. Are they seeing a good life becoming more difficult to achieve or do they see a sense of hope and opportunity in Singapore? The most important task ahead for the government and this parliament is to improve the lives of the average Singaporean and to show our young that this is their home where they will benefit most from the opportunities that arise and that this country is their best hope of finding a good life.
The process of Wealth Creation - Creating vs Importing
10. If not asset enhancement, then how do we create wealth for our citizens? Yes, the government has come up with a plethora of government assistance schemes, subsidies and grants to help our lower-income. But in doing so, we may affect their self-pride and their motivation levels. Killing a person's pride can also lead to destroying his self-belief and we definitely do not want our citizens to stop believing in themselves or their abilities. Why not instead give everyone a decent salary so that they do not need to depend on government handouts to live comfortably? This way, at least we do not kill their confidence as we want them to take pride in Singapore's development and not be embarrassed instead.
11. Our founding fathers created wealth by their own blood, sweat and tears: inspiring Singaporeans to work hard together to create success and prosperity. The problem really is that for many years now, we have focused on the outcome and not the process. So while we focused on building wealth for Singapore, we didn't pay as much attention to how we were doing this. In recent years we have shifted the focus away from growing through motivating and encouraging Singaporeans to importing talent that the government feels will contribute to the nation's bottom-line - our GDP. Today we are willing to achieve growth by transplanting what others, including foreigners can do into Singapore - an "instant tree" mentality of sorts -- what pride do Singaporean have in such a prosperity? I am not saying we should stop importing talent and enterprises but what I am saying is that we overdid this to achieve the ends, compromising on the means of getting to our goal - building things ourselves, even if things take a little longer to build.
12. Singapore's original success story was written by hardworking locals assisted with 'imports' in specific roles that our locals lacked the necessary expertise in. Today's Singapore is a very dif-ferent story. We have attempted to bring in the best from around the world to drive our growth and in certain instances sidelined our own local talent. The ends have too often been used to justify the means.
13. According to a recent wealth report from Barclays Bank, Singapore has the fifth highest concen-tration of millionaires in the world; 8.8 per cent of the population has at least one million US dollars in investable assets (excluding the value of the primary residence). The same report also highlighted that Singapore was the fastest place for one to accumulate their wealth.
14. This is certainly good news if the growth is equitable and enjoyed by most Singaporeans. Sadly I believe the reality may not be so. While asset enhancement may had helped Singaporeans, I believe a large number of the wealthy millionaires are new citizens or PRs who transplanted their wealth from wherever and however they acquired it, to Singapore. The median income of Singa-poreans has certainly risen and on the surface is a good thing for the county, but it seems to be highly correlated to the increase in the number of new citizens and PRs. So the question is, did Singaporeans really see a big growth of their income to afford the high cost of living here?
15. I am glad that this government has thankfully, heeded the call of Singaporeans and shifted its focus away from simply the outcome, of high GDP growth rates, towards the effort and process by which this is achieved aiming to ensure that the growth is equitable and fair. So an inclusive growth strategy adopted by the government since 2011 is definitely the right direction so that everyone enjoys the fruits of the wealth of the nation.
16. While social assistance schemes and safety nets are necessary I feel that they are not addressing the root cause of the problem - low wages. The progressive wage model is a good start in legislating a sectorial minimum wage, I urge this government to further develop the model and include more sectors. Ensuring that all Singaporeans earn a decent living wage would promote self-sufficiency and reduce their dependence on the government for assistance even to achieve a basic standard of comfortable life.
Ask usual prata. u are talking bat GST then I tell u there is GST rebate. then u can magically pull a parallel with a middle income are having a tougher time. In that speech is there any recreance to GST being the cause?
Can you show us? don't prata and jump ard like a fly on a hot surface.
suddenly some people as usual like to gleen through and forget the less well to to. get GST credit rebates. even middle income family also get GST rebates but just less than the low income.
IF the middle income family choose to spend more then thats the excess that they would have to pay for consumption.
The rich can always park the $ offshore and not get tax. So scraping GST help ? LOL.
like ST example the rich business man can always setup more business spend and charge it to the company as expense get GST rebates to company. So how u tax those high income?
everything complain Fairness. How come the Rich can buy Prada and I cannot? How is that Fair? Why the Rich can drive nice car? how is that fair? Why the Rich can eat big meals and fancy restaurant how is that fair?
Everyday complain not fair. why not focus the engery on getting oneself there than sit on a lazy ass whining.
kinda of confusing your stance.
on one hand, you point out the "unfairness" of the rich can buy prada and i cannot.
on the other hand, you point out the unfairness of the rich benefit more from higher cpf rates.
kinda of confusing your stance.
on one hand, you point out the "unfairness" of the rich can buy prada and i cannot.
on the other hand, you point out the unfairness of the rich benefit more from higher cpf rates.
the reason I point out rich can buy prada and I cannot is a sarcasm. u didn't get my sarcasm?
Mr Inderjit Singh : "things have become tougher for some middle and low income Singaporeans" over the last three years.
This is despite all the GST rebates that minority is talking about. So food for thought? Well, it is obvious, especially the middle-incomers are the worst off, because of GST, commercial rentals being jacked up and businesses passed the costs down to consumers, etc contributing to significant rise in costs of living while wage increase is pittant compared to rise in costs of living!
While the poorest still get rebates and financial helps, the middle-incomers are left to fence for themselves and are the real worst-off of the lot!
Now the poor (in some sectors) get further help by getting MIN WAGE (which minority denied that "progressive wage" is MIN WAGE!) while again the middle-incomes get ZERO help!. Now Mr Singh confirmed "progressive wage" is MIN WAGE!
Calling on minority, you have been exposed as a LIAR (by Mr Singh's statements!)
=============================================
PAP MP Inderjit Singh: Not every Singaporean's life is better
Tuesday, May 27, 2014 - 17:45
AsiaOne
SINGAPORE - Mr Inderjit Singh said in a lengthy post on Facebook that "things have become tougher for some middle and low income Singaporeans" over the last three years.
The PAP MP asked in his commentary: "We must ask ourselves, are all the amenities and entertainment places we built in the last 10 years being enjoyed by mainly Singaporeans or by new arrivals and foreigners?"
In the Facebook post he put up on Monday night, he looked more closely at the disconnect between Singapore's wealth and well-being of Singaporeans, as well as how policies are made here.
[email protected]
His post on Facebook:
Response to the President Address At the Re-Opening of 2nd Session of Parliament May 2014
Introduction
1. Parliament is debating the President's address this week. I wanted to share my thoughts on what the government has achieved in the past 3 three years and what more it can do in the remainder of this 12th term of parliament. Since I am currently traveling and not in Singapore, I decided to share my thoughts through this post instead.
2. Post GE2011, the government got a very clear signal from Singaporeans about the issues that affected them most and the government spent considerable time fixing these problems, which were created as a result of a decade long series of policy misjudgment linked to its "growth at all cost" economic strategy. We must all agree, that the government has done well in many areas, particularly the manner in which it sorted out issues in the housing, healthcare and even transport to some extent.
3. The icing on the cake has been the Pioneer Generation Package, which is unprecedented in Singapore on many counts and shows that the government is taking an effort to move beyond dollars and cents, to inculcate care and compassion in policy making. But, really though, beyond the Pioneer Package, if someone were to ask me honestly whether the lives of all Singaporeans have become better in these last few years, I would not be able to do that.
The disconnect between the country's wealth and Singaporeans' well being
4. Yes, I would agree that Singapore as a country and as an economy has improved. Yes Singapore has become richer, but not all Singaporeans have seen an improvement in their daily lives. I mean it is really a noteworthy achievement that while most of the developed world remains mired in an economic crisis that can be traced back to more than 5 years ago, Singapore has emerged relatively unscathed, grown from strength to strength and even restructured and repositioned its economy in the meanwhile. But did every Singaporean benefit from this? I would say there is still a significant section of our society who didn't. Did every Singaporean's life become better? Sadly, not every Singaporean's did.
5. In fact, things have become tougher for some middle and low income Singaporeans. While wages may have risen, the cost of living outpaced the rise in wages and therefore life has become tougher for some unless they adjust their lifestyles downwards to live comfortably in their own country. If this is the message for Singaporeans as has been suggested by some, I think it is a sad thing because for many years since independence Singaporeans had expected and also achieved better and better standards of living and aimed higher and higher had their aspirations met or exceeded. The growing income disparity coupled with stagnant wages at the bottom and a sudden increase in population has put undue pressure on lower income Singaporeans. Of course the rich are very happy - high end restaurants and places of entertainment are always busy and full. We must ask ourselves, are all the amenities and entertainment places we built in the last 10 years being enjoyed by mainly Singaporeans or by new arrivals and foreigners? I really wonder whether this is what we want as a nation.
6. We progressed from 3rd world to 1st world in just 1 generation - a great success. So where is the disconnect between the country's wealth, which has grown tremendously, and Singaporeans' wealth. While indicators may seem to indicate most Singaporeans are richer, I believe they may be so because of things such as assets enhancement, which may not mean everyone's life became better because they actually have less disposable income. While the government wants to solve this through unlocking asset wealth for retirement spending at old age it may not be the best way.
7. I would caution against overly emphasizing the role of the home in providing for retirement adequacy. To achieve this goal of a home being a source of retirement funding, asset appreciation would be beneficial. However, the appreciation of housing prices can cause serious anxiety among the young who are looking to settle down and start a family. Asset appreciation can, very simplistically, be seen as an intergenerational transfer of wealth - the young working Singaporean is paying the elderly retiree an inflated price for their home.
8. Asset appreciation through increase in property prices also has an illusory effect on a person's wealth. Even though my home price has increased constantly over the years I am not any richer till I dispose of my property. But in that instance, I would have to purchase a replacement home, which would of course be more expensive. Constantly increasing property prices, in my opinion, are not a good thing for our country. With our limited land space, a meltdown of the property mar-ket like that seen in certain American states in 2008/09 may be unlikely, but the fear is still real and justified.
9. What worries me most is how our young see their future in Singapore. Are they seeing a good life becoming more difficult to achieve or do they see a sense of hope and opportunity in Singapore? The most important task ahead for the government and this parliament is to improve the lives of the average Singaporean and to show our young that this is their home where they will benefit most from the opportunities that arise and that this country is their best hope of finding a good life.
The process of Wealth Creation - Creating vs Importing
10. If not asset enhancement, then how do we create wealth for our citizens? Yes, the government has come up with a plethora of government assistance schemes, subsidies and grants to help our lower-income. But in doing so, we may affect their self-pride and their motivation levels. Killing a person's pride can also lead to destroying his self-belief and we definitely do not want our citizens to stop believing in themselves or their abilities. Why not instead give everyone a decent salary so that they do not need to depend on government handouts to live comfortably? This way, at least we do not kill their confidence as we want them to take pride in Singapore's development and not be embarrassed instead.
11. Our founding fathers created wealth by their own blood, sweat and tears: inspiring Singaporeans to work hard together to create success and prosperity. The problem really is that for many years now, we have focused on the outcome and not the process. So while we focused on building wealth for Singapore, we didn't pay as much attention to how we were doing this. In recent years we have shifted the focus away from growing through motivating and encouraging Singaporeans to importing talent that the government feels will contribute to the nation's bottom-line - our GDP. Today we are willing to achieve growth by transplanting what others, including foreigners can do into Singapore - an "instant tree" mentality of sorts -- what pride do Singaporean have in such a prosperity? I am not saying we should stop importing talent and enterprises but what I am saying is that we overdid this to achieve the ends, compromising on the means of getting to our goal - building things ourselves, even if things take a little longer to build.
12. Singapore's original success story was written by hardworking locals assisted with 'imports' in specific roles that our locals lacked the necessary expertise in. Today's Singapore is a very dif-ferent story. We have attempted to bring in the best from around the world to drive our growth and in certain instances sidelined our own local talent. The ends have too often been used to justify the means.
13. According to a recent wealth report from Barclays Bank, Singapore has the fifth highest concen-tration of millionaires in the world; 8.8 per cent of the population has at least one million US dollars in investable assets (excluding the value of the primary residence). The same report also highlighted that Singapore was the fastest place for one to accumulate their wealth.
14. This is certainly good news if the growth is equitable and enjoyed by most Singaporeans. Sadly I believe the reality may not be so. While asset enhancement may had helped Singaporeans, I believe a large number of the wealthy millionaires are new citizens or PRs who transplanted their wealth from wherever and however they acquired it, to Singapore. The median income of Singa-poreans has certainly risen and on the surface is a good thing for the county, but it seems to be highly correlated to the increase in the number of new citizens and PRs. So the question is, did Singaporeans really see a big growth of their income to afford the high cost of living here?
15. I am glad that this government has thankfully, heeded the call of Singaporeans and shifted its focus away from simply the outcome, of high GDP growth rates, towards the effort and process by which this is achieved aiming to ensure that the growth is equitable and fair. So an inclusive growth strategy adopted by the government since 2011 is definitely the right direction so that everyone enjoys the fruits of the wealth of the nation.
16. While social assistance schemes and safety nets are necessary I feel that they are not addressing the root cause of the problem - low wages. The progressive wage model is a good start in legislating a sectorial minimum wage, I urge this government to further develop the model and include more sectors. Ensuring that all Singaporeans earn a decent living wage would promote self-sufficiency and reduce their dependence on the government for assistance even to achieve a basic standard of comfortable life.
Bull shit again.
Progressive wage is different from Min wage. don't fudge it and try to bullshit
Progressive wage means u need to improve ur skill to get a increase in your wage. min wage is still do the same shit but ur wage regardless u or ur peer doing shit also get a min $$$ . Min wage do not encourage workforce to improve their skills.
Get your facts right.
Bull shit again.
Progressive wage is different from Min wage. don't fudge it and try to bullshit
Progressive wage means u need to improve ur skill to get a increase in your wage. min wage is still do the same shit but ur wage regardless u or ur peer doing shit also get a min $$$ . Min wage do not encourage workforce to improve their skills.
Get your facts right.
another piece of nonsense. even our ministers acknowledge it is a form of minimum wage model
http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-story/budget-2013/story/budget-2013-singapores-approach-more-minimum-wage-model-20130306
"With the WIS, WTS and the progressive wage model, we believe we have now a minimum wage model - in fact, it is more than a minimum wage model - whereby we can actually maximise the upside for the low-wage workers, and at the same time, minimise the downside," he said
OK, minority, can you confirm that you are saying that what MP Mr Inderjit Singh said is "Bull shit" when he said "progressive wage" is "minimum wage"?
So, are you telling the govt and employers that the employers can pay their workers less than the minimum wage of $1000 per month NOW because the workers still have not been improved and upgraded?
Bull shit again.
Progressive wage is different from Min wage. don't fudge it and try to bullshit
Progressive wage means u need to improve ur skill to get a increase in your wage. min wage is still do the same shit but ur wage regardless u or ur peer doing shit also get a min $$$ . Min wage do not encourage workforce to improve their skills.
Get your facts right.
Mr Inderjit Singh : "things have become tougher for some middle and low income Singaporeans" over the last three years.
This is despite all the GST rebates that minority is talking about. So food for thought? Well, it is obvious, especially the middle-incomers are the worst off, because of GST, commercial rentals being jacked up and businesses passed the costs down to consumers, etc contributing to significant rise in costs of living while wage increase is pittant compared to rise in costs of living!
While the poorest still get rebates and financial helps, the middle-incomers are left to fence for themselves and are the real worst-off of the lot!
Now the poor (in some sectors) get further help by getting MIN WAGE (which minority denied that "progressive wage" is MIN WAGE!) while again the middle-incomes get ZERO help!. Now Mr Singh confirmed "progressive wage" is MIN WAGE!
Calling on minority, you have been exposed as a LIAR (by Mr Singh's statements!)
This is what Labour chief Lim Swee Say said:
"With the WIS, WTS and the progressive wage model, we believe we have now a minimum wage model - in fact, it is more than a minimum wage model - whereby we can actually maximise the upside for the low-wage workers, and at the same time, minimise the downside,".
So, minority, are you saying that what Labour chief and Minister Lim Swee Say said that singapore's progressive wage is already minimum wage is "Bull shit"?
OK, minority, can you confirm that you are saying that what MP Mr Inderjit Singh said is "Bull shit" when he said "progressive wage" is "minimum wage"?
So, are you telling the govt and employers that the employers can pay their workers less than the minimum wage of $1000 per month NOW because the workers still have not been improved and upgraded?
another piece of nonsense. even our ministers acknowledge it is a form of minimum wage model
http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-story/budget-2013/story/budget-2013-singapores-approach-more-minimum-wage-model-20130306
"With the WIS, WTS and the progressive wage model, we believe we have now a minimum wage model - in fact, it is more than a minimum wage model - whereby we can actually maximise the upside for the low-wage workers, and at the same time, minimise the downside," he said
Relax relax. It is all a matter of of definitions and assumptions.
Under some of them, progressive wage is a type of minimum wage.
But if you include some other stricter criteria, then it is not specifically the minimum wage kind of minimum wage?
Like that also need to argue?
Make money, not war.
Relax relax. It is all a matter of of definitions and assumptions.
Under some of them, progressive wage is a type of minimum wage.
But if you include some other stricter criteria, then it is not specifically the minimum wage kind of minimum wage?
Like that also need to argue?
Make money, not war.
dont worry about them.. they enjoy the process.. not the outcome..
:D
dont worry about them.. they enjoy the process.. not the outcome..
:D
yeah
each carrying a hammer and they like to cock each other ...
opps sorry, I mean KOK :D
Ha ha ha! :cheers4:
dont worry about them.. they enjoy the process.. not the outcome..
:D
"minimum wage" means specifying a minimum wage to pay.
So, "progressive wage" is still "minimum wage", regardless of what icings they put on top of the "minimum wage" crteria, unless minority is telling us that employers got the option to pay their workers less than the "minimum wage" than may be it is right to say "progressive wage" is not "minimum wage".
Anyway, we already hear from the horse's mouth: "Progressive wage" is "minimum wage"! So what is he trying to deny and start accusing MP Mr Inderjit Singh and Labour Chief Minister Lim Swee Say as spilling "bull shit"?! :doh:
Relax relax. It is all a matter of of definitions and assumptions.
Under some of them, progressive wage is a type of minimum wage.
But if you include some other stricter criteria, then it is not specifically the minimum wage kind of minimum wage?
Like that also need to argue?
Make money, not war.
"minimum wage" means specifying a minimum wage to pay.
So, "progressive wage" is still "minimum wage", regardless of what icings they put on top of the "minimum wage" crteria, unless minority is telling us that employers got the option to pay their workers less than the "minimum wage" than may be it is right to say "progressive wage" is not "minimum wage".
Anyway, we already hear from the horse's mouth: "Progressive wage" is "minimum wage"! So what is he trying to deny and start accusing MP Mr Inderjit Singh and Labour Chief Minister Lim Swee Say as spilling "bull shit"?! :doh:
Bull shit I call a spade a spade. Not what icing bull shit and call them the same when it please you to do so.. Its not the same. the only thing the same is they involved wage.
Q: How does PWM compare to a minimum wage model?
A: We all already know that minimum wage refers to the minimum salary a worker should be paid for any work he or she carries out. Countries like Australia and Malaysia have them. The benefits and challenges of the minimum wage model have been well-documented and debated the world over. Some say that if the government sets the bar too low, it does not really help workers (eg. Taiwan). On the other hand, if the government sets the minimum wage too high, the state runs the risk of higher unemployment (eg. European Union). The debate still goes on.
You can say that the PWM is an ‘evolved’ wage model, probably even ahead of what the rest of the world has done. The PWM is more than just ensuring the minimum wage for a worker. Rather, the worker gets paid according to his or her level of skill and productivity and he or she can embark on a journey of skills upgrading in order to climb the wage ladder.
Q: I still don’t get it…a wage ladder?!
Imagine a step ladder where you have salary tiers. A worker has to climb the step ladder in order to get to the next level. To get to the next level, they would have to go through a process of upgrading their skills and increasing productivity. At the same time, their employers would have to make a commitment by providing ample opportunities for employees to grow in their careers. To ensure this, the respective union clusters work out a progressive wage model that is tailored to each sub-sector, such as the security sub-sector or the cleaning sub-sector. That’s the PWM in a nutshell.
Q: Isn’t this minimum wage packaged differently?
It is the same only in one aspect, which is the minimum wage point. However, PWM doesn’t stop at the minimum point but looks at the wage pathway as a progressive journey, which means workers don’t get stuck at the lowest wage level. Instead, employers are encouraged to actively train their staff and look at ways to improve work processes to increase productivity and meet higher service standards. Also, as employers invest more in technology and re-design jobs to improve overall productivity, they help their workers climb the ladder and achieve higher wages. So you avoid a situation where employers suddenly face increased operating costs while employees get paid more for doing the same work without any increase in productivity. You can say it’s a win-win situation for the employee and employer.
Bull shit I call a spade a spade. Not what icing bull shit and call them the same when it please you to do so.. Its not the same. the only thing the same is they involved wage.
Q: How does PWM compare to a minimum wage model?
A: We all already know that minimum wage refers to the minimum salary a worker should be paid for any work he or she carries out. Countries like Australia and Malaysia have them. The benefits and challenges of the minimum wage model have been well-documented and debated the world over. Some say that if the government sets the bar too low, it does not really help workers (eg. Taiwan). On the other hand, if the government sets the minimum wage too high, the state runs the risk of higher unemployment (eg. European Union). The debate still goes on.
You can say that the PWM is an ‘evolved’ wage model, probably even ahead of what the rest of the world has done. The PWM is more than just ensuring the minimum wage for a worker. Rather, the worker gets paid according to his or her level of skill and productivity and he or she can embark on a journey of skills upgrading in order to climb the wage ladder.
Q: I still don’t get it…a wage ladder?!
Imagine a step ladder where you have salary tiers. A worker has to climb the step ladder in order to get to the next level. To get to the next level, they would have to go through a process of upgrading their skills and increasing productivity. At the same time, their employers would have to make a commitment by providing ample opportunities for employees to grow in their careers. To ensure this, the respective union clusters work out a progressive wage model that is tailored to each sub-sector, such as the security sub-sector or the cleaning sub-sector. That’s the PWM in a nutshell.
Q: Isn’t this minimum wage packaged differently?
It is the same only in one aspect, which is the minimum wage point. However, PWM doesn’t stop at the minimum point but looks at the wage pathway as a progressive journey, which means workers don’t get stuck at the lowest wage level. Instead, employers are encouraged to actively train their staff and look at ways to improve work processes to increase productivity and meet higher service standards. Also, as employers invest more in technology and re-design jobs to improve overall productivity, they help their workers climb the ladder and achieve higher wages. So you avoid a situation where employers suddenly face increased operating costs while employees get paid more for doing the same work without any increase in productivity. You can say it’s a win-win situation for the employee and employer.
so thanks for agreeing that progressive wage is a form of minimum wage.
"Bull shit again.
Progressive wage is different from Min wage. don't fudge it and try to bullshit
Progressive wage means u need to improve ur skill to get a increase in your wage. min wage is still do the same shit but ur wage regardless u or ur peer doing shit also get a min $$$ . Min wage do not encourage workforce to improve their skills.
Get your facts right."
In response to your earlier statements:
Bull shit again.
Progressive wage is different from Min wage. don't fudge it and try to bullshit
Progressive wage means u need to improve ur skill to get a increase in your wage. min wage is still do the same shit but ur wage regardless u or ur peer doing shit also get a min $$$ . Min wage do not encourage workforce to improve their skills.
Get your facts right.
NOW you admit that what you said about "progressive wage" is not minimum wage is "bull shit", otherwise if you didn't "bull shit" means your are saying that your Minister Lim Swee Say is saying "bull shit" since he said "we have now a minimum wage model"! :tongue3:
Bull shit I call a spade a spade. Not what icing bull shit and call them the same when it please you to do so.. Its not the same. the only thing the same is they involved wage.
Q: How does PWM compare to a minimum wage model?
A: We all already know that minimum wage refers to the minimum salary a worker should be paid for any work he or she carries out. Countries like Australia and Malaysia have them. The benefits and challenges of the minimum wage model have been well-documented and debated the world over. Some say that if the government sets the bar too low, it does not really help workers (eg. Taiwan). On the other hand, if the government sets the minimum wage too high, the state runs the risk of higher unemployment (eg. European Union). The debate still goes on.
You can say that the PWM is an ‘evolved’ wage model, probably even ahead of what the rest of the world has done. The PWM is more than just ensuring the minimum wage for a worker. Rather, the worker gets paid according to his or her level of skill and productivity and he or she can embark on a journey of skills upgrading in order to climb the wage ladder.
Q: I still don’t get it…a wage ladder?!
Imagine a step ladder where you have salary tiers. A worker has to climb the step ladder in order to get to the next level. To get to the next level, they would have to go through a process of upgrading their skills and increasing productivity. At the same time, their employers would have to make a commitment by providing ample opportunities for employees to grow in their careers. To ensure this, the respective union clusters work out a progressive wage model that is tailored to each sub-sector, such as the security sub-sector or the cleaning sub-sector. That’s the PWM in a nutshell.
Q: Isn’t this minimum wage packaged differently?
It is the same only in one aspect, which is the minimum wage point. However, PWM doesn’t stop at the minimum point but looks at the wage pathway as a progressive journey, which means workers don’t get stuck at the lowest wage level. Instead, employers are encouraged to actively train their staff and look at ways to improve work processes to increase productivity and meet higher service standards. Also, as employers invest more in technology and re-design jobs to improve overall productivity, they help their workers climb the ladder and achieve higher wages. So you avoid a situation where employers suddenly face increased operating costs while employees get paid more for doing the same work without any increase in productivity. You can say it’s a win-win situation for the employee and employer.
This is what Labour chief Lim Swee Say said:
"With the WIS, WTS and the progressive wage model, we believe we have now a minimum wage model - in fact, it is more than a minimum wage model - whereby we can actually maximise the upside for the low-wage workers, and at the same time, minimise the downside,".
So, minority, are you saying that what Labour chief and Minister Lim Swee Say said that singapore's progressive wage is already minimum wage is "Bull shit"?
In response to your earlier statements:
NOW you admit that what you said about "progressive wage" is not minimum wage is "bull shit", otherwise if you didn't "bull shit" means your are saying that your Minister Lim Swee Say is saying "bull shit" since he said "we have now a minimum wage model"! :tongue3:
Bull shit show me how minwage is 100% = to Progressive wage? Dont just bull shit and play with words.
KNN Talk cock! :tongue3:
Progressive wage = minimum wage + icings
So Progressive wage is a kind of minimum wage (quoting Minister Lim Swee Say). Is the above clear enough?! :doh:
Bull shit show me how minwage is 100% = to Progressive wage? Dont just bull shit and play with words.
KNN Talk cock! :tongue3:
Progressive wage = minimum wage + icings
So Progressive wage is a kind of minimum wage (quoting Minister Lim Swee Say). Is the above clear enough?! :doh:
Thank you . So you agree Progressive wage != Minmum wage then. Coz its not equal. Thank you for agreeing that.
I quote again what Labour Chief and Minister Lim Swee Say said:
This is what Labour chief Lim Swee Say said:
"With the WIS, WTS and the progressive wage model, we believe we have now a minimum wage model - in fact, it is more than a minimum wage model - whereby we can actually maximise the upside for the low-wage workers, and at the same time, minimise the downside,".
So, minority, are you saying that what Labour chief and Minister Lim Swee Say said that singapore's progressive wage is already minimum wage is "Bull shit"?
minority, by contradicting what Minister Lim Swee Say said and saying bull shit of what Minister Lim said and you strongly claiming "progressive wage" is NOT "minimum wage", so you are telling all of us that what Minister Lim said and quoted in newspaper "is bull shit" and he lied? So, tell us, either you lying or you are telling us that Minster Lim is lying?
I believe Minister Lim and hence you must be lying! :simmering:
Thank you . So you agree Progressive wage != Minmum wage then. Coz its not equal. Thank you for agreeing that.
I quote again what Labour Chief and Minister Lim Swee Say said:
minority, by contradicting what Minister Lim Swee Say said and saying bull shit of what Minister Lim said and you strongly claiming "progressive wage" is NOT "minimum wage", so you are telling all of us that what Minister Lim said and quoted in newspaper "is bull shit" and he lied? So, tell us, either you lying or you are telling us that Minster Lim is lying?
I believe Minister Lim and hence you must be lying! :simmering:
Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
KNN Talk cock!
Progressive wage = minimum wage + icings
So I repeat finally we have a agreement that Progressive Wage != Minimum wage. It such a rare occasion we can come to a agreement with a cock screw like you. I need to go buy 4D and TOTO tonight. could be my lucky day.!
HUAT AH!
Please stop all your lies and misleading arguments!
People here are not stupid which you think them of as though with all your lies and twist and turns and misleading statements, people will believe you! :tongue3:
So I repeat finally we have a agreement that Progressive Wage != Minimum wage. It such a rare occasion we can come to a agreement with a cock screw like you. I need to go buy 4D and TOTO tonight. could be my lucky day.!
HUAT AH!
I quote again what Labour Chief and Minister Lim Swee Say said:
This is what Labour chief Lim Swee Say said:
"With the WIS, WTS and the progressive wage model, we believe we have now a minimum wage model - in fact, it is more than a minimum wage model - whereby we can actually maximise the upside for the low-wage workers, and at the same time, minimise the downside,".
So, minority, are you saying that what Labour chief and Minister Lim Swee Say said that singapore's progressive wage is already minimum wage is "Bull shit"?
minority, by contradicting what Minister Lim Swee Say said and saying bull shit of what Minister Lim said and you strongly claiming "progressive wage" is NOT "minimum wage", so you are telling all of us that what Minister Lim said and quoted in newspaper "is bull shit" and he lied? So, tell us, either you lying or you are telling us that Minster Lim is lying?
I believe Minister Lim and hence you must be lying!
Please stop all your lies and misleading arguments!
People here are not stupid which you think them of as though with all your lies and twist and turns and misleading statements, people will believe you! :tongue3:
Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
KNN Talk cock!
Progressive wage = minimum wage + icings
I am quoting u ! u mean u are lying? from the above comment is I don't see Progressive Wage = Minimum wage . So who is lying? HMMM.... u again u prataman again? want to flip prata?
Do I need to donate $ to send u to primary school? Can u count or equate ? or u need picture cards with apple n orange?
1=1
1!= 1.5
2!=2.5
But Minister Lim say that progressive wage is also minimum wage, so you say he is lying? :tongue3:
More like you are lying and twist and turns! :rolleyes:
I am quoting u ! u mean u are lying? from the above comment is I don't see Progressive Wage = Minimum wage . So who is lying? HMMM.... u again u prataman again? want to flip prata?
Do I need to donate $ to send u to primary school? Can u count or equate ? or u need picture cards with apple n orange?
1=1
1!= 1.5
2!=2.5
.......
Q: I still don’t get it…a wage ladder?!
Imagine a step ladder where you have salary tiers. A worker has to climb the step ladder in order to get to the next level. To get to the next level, they would have to go through a process of upgrading their skills and increasing productivity. At the same time, their employers would have to make a commitment by providing ample opportunities for employees to grow in their careers. To ensure this, the respective union clusters work out a progressive wage model that is tailored to each sub-sector, such as the security sub-sector or the cleaning sub-sector. That’s the PWM in a nutshell.
.....
i was looking at the step ladder for cleaners.
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/employment-practices/order-by-commissioner-for-labour.pdf
I still dont get how wage ladder under PWM is different from wage ladder NOT under PWM.
eg. just like cleaning job, we also have wage ladder for minister job.
http://www.psd.gov.sg/content/psd/en/white_paper/white_paper.html
junior minister
minister
prime minister
senior minister
minister mentor
civil servants also have salary scale, not under PWM.
eg.http://www.salarysingapore.com/civil-service-pay-scale-in-singapore.html
you meet the grade, you get salary increment according to pay scale.
But Minister Lim say that progressive wage is also minimum wage, so you say he is lying? :tongue3:
More like you are lying and twist and turns! :rolleyes:
Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
KNN Talk cock!
Progressive wage = minimum wage + icings
u already agree its not equal now u want to prata? LOL!!!! what is ur stand? Prata stand?
minority, stop beating around the bush! Either you stupid idiot cannot understand or you avoiding the question???
I say: Progressive wage is MIN WAGE! Loud and clear, totally agree with Minister Lim Swee Say who said so too!
If you say I prata, you mean Minister Lim Swee Say is lying? :scared-3:
Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
KNN Talk cock!
Progressive wage = minimum wage + icings
u already agree its not equal now u want to prata? LOL!!!! what is ur stand? Prata stand?
But Minister Lim say that progressive wage is also minimum wage, so you say he is lying? :tongue3:
More like you are lying and twist and turns! :rolleyes:
u stop back paddling. Show me proof that is equal. u urself say not equal now u want to back paddle.?
Which Bush are u lost in? never trim the bush so u get lost? Lie say Lie don't now go hide in some bush.!
Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
KNN Talk cock!
Progressive wage = minimum wage + icings
u stop back paddling. Show me proof that is equal. u urself say not equal now u want to back paddle.?
Which Bush are u lost in? never trim the bush so u get lost? Lie say Lie don't now go hide in some bush.!
progressive wage model by govt = a series of minimum wage
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/employment-practices/order-by-commissioner-for-labour.pdf
eg group 1
minimum wage for general cleaner $1000
minimum wage for outdoor cleaner $1200
minimum wage for multiskilled cleaner $1400
minimum wage for supervisor $1600.
so when general cleaner upgrade to outdoor cleaner, his wage is $1200 and above, cannot be only $1100.
in this context, PWM is still minimum wage model.
is there any industry that is lower paid than cleaners?
how much does lowest fast food worker get?
how much does local construction worker (non-foreign) get?
so if general cleaner is lowest of the low, then by setting a minimum wage for general cleaner, it is setting a benchmark minimum wage for the whole of singapore.
Think in Singapore cleaners are the lowest paid lot, so putting a minimum wage to the lowest paid salary will prevent others from falling below those of cleaners (but will not lift much, so next are security guards pay under review)..................
progressive wage model by govt = a series of minimum wage
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/employment-practices/order-by-commissioner-for-labour.pdf
eg group 1
minimum wage for general cleaner $1000
minimum wage for outdoor cleaner $1200
minimum wage for multiskilled cleaner $1400
minimum wage for supervisor $1600.
so when general cleaner upgrade to outdoor cleaner, his wage is $1200 and above, cannot be only $1100.
in this context, PWM is still minimum wage model.
is there any industry that is lower paid than cleaners?
how much does lowest fast food worker get?
how much does local construction worker (non-foreign) get?
so if general cleaner is lowest of the low, then by setting a minimum wage for general cleaner, it is setting a benchmark minimum wage for the whole of singapore.
Think in Singapore cleaners are the lowest paid lot, so putting a minimum wage to the lowest paid salary will prevent others from falling below those of cleaners (but will not lift much, so next are security guards pay under review)..................
i was reading this speech by tharman
https://app.mewr.gov.sg/web/contents/Contents.aspx?Yr=2014&ContId=1920
" Our approach is therefore different from one of legislating a national minimum wage. Many countries have a national minimum wage. I do not intend to get into a full discussion here on minimum wages. But let me just say that there is more than meets the eye in how minimum wages impact the poor. "
if cleaners are lowest of the low, by setting a minimum wage for cleaners, then effectively it is a national minimum wage.
the word "resident" cleaners, workers, workforce are used a few times.
does non-resident/foreign cleaners also come under the minimum $1000?
if foreign cleaners come under PWM, then lowest paid foreigners are the maids, then minimum wage for cleaners is not a national minimum wage.
i was reading this speech by tharman
https://app.mewr.gov.sg/web/contents/Contents.aspx?Yr=2014&ContId=1920
" Our approach is therefore different from one of legislating a national minimum wage. Many countries have a national minimum wage. I do not intend to get into a full discussion here on minimum wages. But let me just say that there is more than meets the eye in how minimum wages impact the poor. "
if cleaners are lowest of the low, by setting a minimum wage for cleaners, then effectively it is a national minimum wage.
the word "resident" cleaners, workers, workforce are used a few times.
does non-resident/foreign cleaners also come under the minimum $1000?
if foreign cleaners come under PWM, then lowest paid foreigners are the maids, then minimum wage for cleaners is not a national minimum wage.
There is a lot of talk about progressive wage now. I believe the minimum wages of some of the lowest incomes are related to the wages of some of the highest incomes ;)
There is a lot of talk about progressive wage now. I believe the minimum wages of some of the lowest incomes are related to the wages of some of the highest incomes ;)
the white paper for minister salaries.
http://www.psd.gov.sg/content/dam/psd_web/white_paper/White%20Paper%20-%20Salaries%20for%20a%20Capable%20and%20Committed%20Govt.pdf/jcr%3acontent/renditions/original.res/White%20Paper%20-%20Salaries%20for%20a%20Capable%20and%20Committed%20Govt.pdf
do u mean the national bonus which is dependent on 4 factors?
NB depends on:
• Real Median Income Growth Rate (25%);
• Real Growth Rate of Lowest 20th Percentile Income (25%); :)
• Unemployment rate (25%);
• Real GDP Growth Rate (25%).
i dont think so le, the minimum wage for cleaner up from $850 to $1000, only a one time occurence in 2014. it will remain $1000 for the next few years, so real growth rate of lowest 20th percentile income will be like 0% for the next few years.
As you said "the word "resident" cleaners, workers, workforce are used a few times.", so the min wage only applies to "resident" workers since it is the govt's job to protect the benefits of "residents" and not "foreigners".......... :2cents:
i was reading this speech by tharman
https://app.mewr.gov.sg/web/contents/Contents.aspx?Yr=2014&ContId=1920
" Our approach is therefore different from one of legislating a national minimum wage. Many countries have a national minimum wage. I do not intend to get into a full discussion here on minimum wages. But let me just say that there is more than meets the eye in how minimum wages impact the poor. "
if cleaners are lowest of the low, by setting a minimum wage for cleaners, then effectively it is a national minimum wage.
the word "resident" cleaners, workers, workforce are used a few times.
does non-resident/foreign cleaners also come under the minimum $1000?
if foreign cleaners come under PWM, then lowest paid foreigners are the maids, then minimum wage for cleaners is not a national minimum wage.
the white paper for minister salaries.
http://www.psd.gov.sg/content/dam/psd_web/white_paper/White%20Paper%20-%20Salaries%20for%20a%20Capable%20and%20Committed%20Govt.pdf/jcr%3acontent/renditions/original.res/White%20Paper%20-%20Salaries%20for%20a%20Capable%20and%20Committed%20Govt.pdf
do u mean the national bonus which is dependent on 4 factors?
NB depends on:
• Real Median Income Growth Rate (25%);
• Real Growth Rate of Lowest 20th Percentile Income (25%); :)
• Unemployment rate (25%);
• Real GDP Growth Rate (25%).
i dont think so le, the minimum wage for cleaner up from $850 to $1000, only a one time occurence in 2014. it will remain $1000 for the next few years, so real growth rate of lowest 20th percentile income will be like 0% for the next few years.
The pegging will definitely affect labour policies. I do see more local aunties and uncles working and receiving higher pay, which is a good thing. At least now more senior citizens who need a job can have one to pay for rising cost of living while keep themselves occupied meaningfully. I'm just amused at the recent interest in lower wages and trying to connect the dots.
Cleaners make up of <10% of lowest 20th percentile income?
Now time to help the other group in the lowest 20th percentile income - Security guards......
"good" to be so enthusiastic in lifting the income of lowest income workers............. :p
the white paper for minister salaries.
http://www.psd.gov.sg/content/dam/psd_web/white_paper/White%20Paper%20-%20Salaries%20for%20a%20Capable%20and%20Committed%20Govt.pdf/jcr%3acontent/renditions/original.res/White%20Paper%20-%20Salaries%20for%20a%20Capable%20and%20Committed%20Govt.pdf
do u mean the national bonus which is dependent on 4 factors?
NB depends on:
• Real Median Income Growth Rate (25%);
• Real Growth Rate of Lowest 20th Percentile Income (25%); :)
• Unemployment rate (25%);
• Real GDP Growth Rate (25%).
i dont think so le, the minimum wage for cleaner up from $850 to $1000, only a one time occurence in 2014. it will remain $1000 for the next few years, so real growth rate of lowest 20th percentile income will be like 0% for the next few years.
The pegging will definitely affect labour policies. I do see more local aunties and uncles working and receiving higher pay, which is a good thing. At least now more senior citizens who need a job can have one to pay for rising cost of living while keep themselves occupied meaningfully. I'm just amused at the recent interest in lower wages and trying to connect the dots.
1-2 years ago, i remember reading in TR emeritus that cleaner reject $50 pay increase because that additional $50 would bring her over the threshold for some assistance/subsidy. so increase by $50 will remove subsidy of $100-200 :banghead:
some examples of subsidies
http://app.msf.gov.sg/Portals/0/Table%20of%20Government%20schemes%20and%20eligbility%20criteria%20%28PQ%29%20final.pdf
eg
CHAS Subsidy Blue Tier
Aged 40 and above (From 1 Jan 2014 onwards, there will be no age criteria),
and with PC income of not more than $1,100.
If you are indoor worker $1000, please dont upgrade to outdoor worker ($1200), you lose subsidy :banghead:
CDC/CCC Bursary for Post Secondary Students
Singapore Citizen with gross monthly household per capita income of $850 and
below. Up to $2,900 per year, depending on level of study.
MOE Bursary for Post Secondary Students
Singapore Citizen with per capita income of $1,700 and below. Up to $2,150 per year, depending on income
and level of study.
pay no longer $850, now $1000, sorry no more CDC, but heng arrh, still have MOE bursary, buy now educed to $2150 from $2900.
:banghead:
I wonder with the minimum wage of $1000 for cleaners, there will be an upward revision for eligibility criteria.
if no revision in the figures, then increase in minimum wage, govt spend less on assistance, subsidy and cost is passed on to you and me.
The pegging will definitely affect labour policies. I do see more local aunties and uncles working and receiving higher pay, which is a good thing. At least now more senior citizens who need a job can have one to pay for rising cost of living while keep themselves occupied meaningfully. I'm just amused at the recent interest in lower wages and trying to connect the dots.
i am also trying to connect the dots.
do you know why $1000 is the minimum wage and not some other figure like $900 or $1100?
because Tharman said $1000 is enough to buy a HDB flat :p
i am also trying to connect the dots.
do you know why $1000 is the minimum wage and not some other figure like $900 or $1100?
because Tharman said $1000 is enough to buy a HDB flat :p
If what Tharman said is true that $1000 income can buy a HDB flat
then he must tell the public on the age of the person when purchasing one
Assuming if a person is a 40year old and he went ahead and buy
I would presume that most of the monthly payment for the installment will come from his monthly CPF contributions
What if 10years and 15years later after reaching age 50 and 55 and his monthly wage is still at $1000 ?
Then part of his monthly installment will have to be in cash because part of the employers contribution will be reduced
How will it then affect his day to day expenses
Another area will be the Minimum Sum
Assuming from past record the annual increased is 6% to 6.5%
From 1st July this year the Minimum Sum will be at $155,000
How much will be the Minimum sum then at 1st July 2029 ?
If what Tharman said is true that $1000 income can buy a HDB flat
then he must tell the public on the age of the person when purchasing one
Assuming if a person is a 40year old and he went ahead and buy
I would presume that most of the monthly payment for the installment will come from his monthly CPF contributions
What if 10years and 15years later after reaching age 50 and 55 and his monthly wage is still at $1000 ?
Then part of his monthly installment will have to be in cash because part of the employers contribution will be reduced
How will it then affect his day to day expenses
Another area will be the Minimum Sum
Assuming from past record the annual increased is 6% to 6.5%
From 1st July this year the Minimum Sum will be at $155,000
How much will be the Minimum sum then at 1st July 2029 ?
dont worry too much as hdb price will go up and up.
he can sell his 2 room flat (the example used by khaw), and then buy a 1 room flat or even rent.
government has planned it all for you. no person shall be left behind.
dont worry too much as hdb price will go up and up.
he can sell his 2 room flat (the example used by khaw), and then buy a 1 room flat or even rent.
government has planned it all for you. no person shall be left behind.
even if price of his 3bedroom HDB goes up
so does the 2 bedroom and the 1 bedroom
and if using 100% of CPF contribution to pay for his monthly installment
most of the proceeds from the sales will go back to CPF as accrued interest :beats-me-man::scared-2::scared-2:
Worst still Minimum Sum will be higher by then :banghead:
An option for him
Be like me, hold 2 jobs :cool::cool:
even if price of his 3bedroom HDB goes up
so does the 2 bedroom and the 1 bedroom
and if using 100% of CPF contribution to pay for his monthly installment
most of the proceeds from the sales will go back to CPF as accrued interest :beats-me-man::scared-2::scared-2:
Worst still Minimum Sum will be higher by then :banghead:
An option for him
Be like me, hold 2 jobs :cool::cool:
$1000pm is for 2room, not 3br.
cleaner by day, security guard by night.
security guard can take turns to sleep at night.
wah, like dat minimum $2000pm.
dont worry, as long as want to work, won't die, worst case scenario is postpone retirement to 85.
$1000pm is for 2room, not 3br.
cleaner by day, security guard by night.
security guard can take turns to sleep at night.
wah, like dat minimum $2000pm.
dont worry, as long as want to work, won't die, worst case scenario is postpone retirement to 85.
Good idea !!!
bring wife along
she can be the security guard assistance
like dat combine monthly income likely to be 2.5k to 3k :ashamed1::ashamed1:
Think in Singapore cleaners are the lowest paid lot, so putting a minimum wage to the lowest paid salary will prevent others from falling below those of cleaners (but will not lift much, so next are security guards pay under review)..................
So ur son want to be cleaners? or rubbish throwers?
progressive wage model by govt = a series of minimum wage
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Documents/employment-practices/order-by-commissioner-for-labour.pdf
eg group 1
minimum wage for general cleaner $1000
minimum wage for outdoor cleaner $1200
minimum wage for multiskilled cleaner $1400
minimum wage for supervisor $1600.
so when general cleaner upgrade to outdoor cleaner, his wage is $1200 and above, cannot be only $1100.
in this context, PWM is still minimum wage model.
is there any industry that is lower paid than cleaners?
how much does lowest fast food worker get?
how much does local construction worker (non-foreign) get?
so if general cleaner is lowest of the low, then by setting a minimum wage for general cleaner, it is setting a benchmark minimum wage for the whole of singapore.
Progressive wage models involves learning more skills i.e. learning to operate or lead a team. a skill is learn.
Min wage is regardless what shit the person is downing wake up next morning when min wage is implemented pay suddenly increase for no reason . And it increased across the board by law.
With min wage employers are know to cut back on the employees if they cannot afford the min wage.
thats the different.
And which generation want to be cleaners? thats why need to study work hard on learning skills.!
Progressive wage models involves learning more skills i.e. learning to operate or lead a team. a skill is learn.
Min wage is regardless what shit the person is downing wake up next morning when min wage is implemented pay suddenly increase for no reason . And it increased across the board by law.
With min wage employers are know to cut back on the employees if they cannot afford the min wage.
thats the different.
And which generation want to be cleaners? thats why need to study work hard on learning skills.!
before you ramble more nonsense, why don't you read on the history leading up to the progressive wage model? in particular the cleaning sector.
for about a decade, opponents of the minimum wage model, including the current labor chief, have been purporting that skills improvement, leading to increase in productivity, will lead to wage increases. history shown us this is all a fallacy as real wages for this group of workers declined. this has got nothing to do with productivity but the nature of business.
hence, even the labor chief acknowledged a U-turn is needed - the progressive wage model that stipulates a minimum wage for certain sectors of the workforce.
before you ramble more nonsense, why don't you read on the history leading up to the progressive wage model? in particular the cleaning sector.
for about a decade, opponents of the minimum wage model, including the current labor chief, have been purporting that skills improvement, leading to increase in productivity, will lead to wage increases. history shown us this is all a fallacy as real wages for this group of workers declined. this has got nothing to do with productivity but the nature of business.
hence, even the labor chief acknowledged a U-turn is needed - the progressive wage model that stipulates a minimum wage for certain sectors of the workforce.
Before u ramble off can u show me proof it's that same? Progressive wage uncle raising new skills . Min wage is by law regardless what the person skillet that's the min a plumber or cleaner even a coffee aunts have to be paid. Regardless of skills. Can u tell me that's the same ? :banghead:
Before u ramble off can u show me proof it's that same? Progressive wage uncle raising new skills . Min wage is by law regardless what the person skillet that's the min a plumber or cleaner even a coffee aunts have to be paid. Regardless of skills. Can u tell me that's the same ? :banghead:
labor chief already said it is in essence a minimum wage model for certain sectors. still want proof?! :banghead::banghead: how dimwit can u be? want to contradict minister zorro??! :banghead::banghead:
secondly, the fallacy of productivity increases leading to general wage increases, in particular for sector working sectors, is history. want to deny this too? pity it is a fact. why is this so? go think, but your lack of cranial matter won't be able to delve into conflating issues or comprehend my statement
Ha ha ha!
Good try twisting and turning, but not convincing.........
Progressive wage is based on stipulating minimum wage, that is a fact, even Labour Chief and Minister Lim Swee Say admitted this!
So, you can stop your twist and turn, you think people will believe what you said?! :tongue3:
Progressive wage models involves learning more skills i.e. learning to operate or lead a team. a skill is learn.
Min wage is regardless what shit the person is downing wake up next morning when min wage is implemented pay suddenly increase for no reason . And it increased across the board by law.
With min wage employers are know to cut back on the employees if they cannot afford the min wage.
thats the different.
And which generation want to be cleaners? thats why need to study work hard on learning skills.!
...Min wage is regardless what shit the person is downing wake up next morning when min wage is implemented pay suddenly increase for no reason . And it increased across the board by law.
.....
isnt that the case here?
suddenly for no reason, cleaner pay increase from $850 to $1000.
does productivity increase? no
"and it increase across the board the law."
however if cleaners are lowest of the low, and the $1000 only affects the cleaners,then only cleaners are affected and not across the board. what other full time occupation earns $850pm for residents?
isnt that the case here?
suddenly for no reason, cleaner pay increase from $850 to $1000.
does productivity increase? no
"and it increase across the board the law."
however if cleaners are lowest of the low, and the $1000 only affects the cleaners,then only cleaners are affected and not across the board. what other full time occupation earns $850pm for residents?
No there was a progressive wage involved. Learn to operate cleaning machines? no?
Did the other labour overnight get wage increase? i.e. the plumbers? the Mac donal servers? no.
Ha ha ha!
Good try twisting and turning, but not convincing.........
Progressive wage is based on stipulating minimum wage, that is a fact, even Labour Chief and Minister Lim Swee Say admitted this!
So, you can stop your twist and turn, you think people will believe what you said?! :tongue3:
LOL!!! U make me ROF LOL!!!! who is the twister n prata man?
Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
KNN Talk cock!
Progressive wage = minimum wage + icings
isnt that the case here?
suddenly for no reason, cleaner pay increase from $850 to $1000.
does productivity increase? no
"and it increase across the board the law."
however if cleaners are lowest of the low, and the $1000 only affects the cleaners,then only cleaners are affected and not across the board. what other full time occupation earns $850pm for residents?
there was once a moronic MP/minister who commented that when business rakes in more profits, these profits will translate to better pay hikes for workers.
if i own a business, my priority is to maximize profits and fulfill obligations to shareholders. why should i give better-than-market pay increases to my employees? i would pay to keep my top performers and those who bring in the buck. but for the low-wage earners and in an era of easily-available-cheap foreign labor, i can easily replace such workers. hence, wages of certain work sectors have declined over the past decade and showed us the fallacy of WIS schemes and the thought that productivity improvements equate to pay hikes.
let me put this in an easy-to-understand mathetical argument,
pay hikes = productivity improvements (excl. inflation),
but
productivity improvements =/= pay hikes
there was once a moronic MP/minister who commented that when business rakes in more profits, these profits will translate to better pay hikes for workers.
if i own a business, my priority is to maximize profits and fulfill obligations to shareholders. why should i give better-than-market pay increases to my employees? i would pay to keep my top performers and those who bring in the buck. but for the low-wage earners and in an era of easily-available-cheap foreign labor, i can easily replace such workers. hence, wages of certain work sectors have declined over the past decade and showed us the fallacy of WIS schemes and the thought that productivity improvements equate to pay hikes.
let me put this in an easy-to-understand mathetical argument,
pay hikes = productivity improvements (excl. inflation),
but
productivity improvements =/= pay hikes
YEs why not. if the business do well I get more bonus.and those who contributed to the business more get more bonus. or commission. But if u are the cleaner in the company then u wont feel u get anything!
Thus the need to learn new skill be seek a higher contribution factor to a company then will get more pay.
want to do mediocre job expect more pay?
LOL get real!
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