View Full Version : just for laugh: the truth about the CPF
Truth Exposed: The Dirty CPF-HDB Scheme To Trick Singaporeans
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/04/02/truth-exposed-the-dirty-cpf-hdb-scheme-to-trick-singaporeans/ (http://thehearttruths.com/2014/04/02/truth-exposed-the-dirty-cpf-hdb-scheme-to-trick-singaporeans/)
author: ROY NGERNG 鄞义林
http://thehearttruths.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/protest-poster-41.jpg
anyone read this sibei long article?
he say he uncover the truth about the CPF and found out its true colours....
3rd may got hong lim park event some more :doh:
read it just for laugh :D
CCPF on e whole is good. HDB prices are not. There shd not be ECs n DBSS.
.....
anyone read this sibei long article?
he say he uncover the truth about the CPF and found out its true colours....
3rd may got hong lim park event some more :doh:
read it just for laugh :D
where is the funny part?
where is the funny part?
funny wat... complain hdb loan 2.6% is high, then take private home loan lor, nobody force hdb buyer to take hdb loan right
where is the funny part?
this is the most funny part of the article :D
If you’ve decided to attend the event, do pledge a $1 commitment to attend this event. Each pledge will be used for the event. We hope that more Singaporeans would take a stand and come together in a show of unity to let others know that it is time we will no longer allow our rights to be abused right in front of our eyes. We need to take our country back. You can transfer your $1 by ATM, Internet banking, or cheque, etc, to POSB Savings Account No. 279-12328-0.
the writer forgot to mention (correct me if i am wrong) that the CPF accrued interest of 2.5% once u sell yr property will be paid back to yr OWN CPF account. he made it sound like this accrued interest is paid to the GARMENT.
the writer forgot to mention (correct me if i am wrong) that the CPF accrued interest of 2.5% once u sell yr property will be paid back to yr OWN CPF account. he made it sound like this accrued interest is paid to the GARMENT.
ya, that is another point to laugh :D
and on another point,
even though it may be true that minimum sum had increased over the years.
I personally think that ultimately, my cpf is still my $$$. When I am gone, my children will get whatever is left over lah. For the record, i m not leaving this world soon :D
agree with you on this point. every dollar and cent in the cpf is your money.
the problem is locked up in minimum sum and drawdown age. and the goal post is keep shifting. don't think many live until the day to use the money.
basically, the money is left for next generation ... i'm fine with it :D
i support cpf. generally, it's a good scheme. whether the interest paid out is lower than fund or other country is debatable. however, accrued interest is something that i find troubling. it's like kena penalised for using own money.
this mean the property must at least generate 2.5% interest per year as minimum. else the property is making a lost when sell. like that property price can only go up :beats-me-man:
the writer forgot to mention (correct me if i am wrong) that the CPF accrued interest of 2.5% once u sell yr property will be paid back to yr OWN CPF account. he made it sound like this accrued interest is paid to the GARMENT.
thomastansb
03-04-14, 11:11
CPF as a pension? Pension can use to pay house one meh? Can't believe anyone would believe this kind of dumb and twisted articles. The writer is dumb enough but those believe this article must be worse than the writer. Can't even differenciate between pension and savings. We don't have pension scheme in Singapore. If not, our income tax will be like 40%.
Truth Exposed: The Dirty CPF-HDB Scheme To Trick Singaporeans
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/04/02/truth-exposed-the-dirty-cpf-hdb-scheme-to-trick-singaporeans/ (http://thehearttruths.com/2014/04/02/truth-exposed-the-dirty-cpf-hdb-scheme-to-trick-singaporeans/)
author: ROY NGERNG 鄞义林
http://thehearttruths.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/protest-poster-41.jpg
anyone read this sibei long article?
he say he uncover the truth about the CPF and found out its true colours....
3rd may got hong lim park event some more :doh:
read it just for laugh :D
funny wat... complain hdb loan 2.6% is high, then take private home loan lor, nobody force hdb buyer to take hdb loan right
how come HDB loan so high as compare to commercial loan?
is HDB pushing people to take commercial loan?
if not mistaken, if fall behind in HDB loan, HDB cannot re-possess flat whereas banks can repossess flat.
how come HDB loan so high as compare to commercial loan?
is HDB pushing people to take commercial loan?
aiya, u 3rd May go Hong Lim park to find out lor :D
ya, that is another point to laugh :D
and on another point,
even though it may be true that minimum sum had increased over the years.
I personally think that ultimately, my cpf is still my $$$. When I am gone, my children will get whatever is left over lah. For the record, i m not leaving this world soon :D
how long does this period accrued amount last?
does children inherit the parents' accrued amount also?
for example,
parent leave HDB flat and CPF amount to child. child already has HDB flat, so he sell his parent's HDB flat.
does the child also inherit his parents' accrued CPF amount also?
darkseed73
03-04-14, 11:31
I was told b4 to be born and raise in Singapore is my blessing.
Even when I was in US, my colleague told me she likes our CPF scheme compare to their social security scheme.
There is a very fragile balance for govt to strike between helping ppl and preventing ppl from abusing the schemes. I feel sometimes govt do too much resulting ppl having the mindset that everything govt is expected to solve. U want govt to solve every problem?
In return, govt expect u to follow their plans since u expect them to solve your problems.
Money don't drop from sky, and we don't have oil like Burnei. The only way govt make money is from it's ppl but that would be evil thus govt decide to take ppl's money to make more money in hope to reduce dependence on ppl for money. Is that wrong?
When I was in HK, I ask ppl why there are old ppl staying in "cages". That's becos there is no CPF life, no CPF, no crap to help them thus old ppl have to survive by themselves and "cages" has the cheapest rent in town. Have u seen the "public housing" in HK?
I compare us very closely with HK, becos I see a mirror image while working there. I knew Singapore will become the next HK and I see govt is try to prevent what happened in HK occuring in Sg. This including housing prices (with all the CRs), healthcare, old folks care etc
In the 90s, there was various news of old folks after getting CPF monies kenna cheated by China man, woman or spend it frivolously ending up by 60s they are broke. That's why govt created minimum sum becos ppl is dieing later....and later.....
Maybe I am just old and remembered some stuff.
Although, I agree this elite mindset must be killed.
Nobody is better then anybody, everybody should be given a chance before kenna shot down.
how long does this period accrued amount last?
does children inherit the parents' accrued amount also?
for example,
parent leave HDB flat and CPF amount to child. child already has HDB flat, so he sell his parent's HDB flat.
does the child also inherit his parents' accrued CPF amount also?
your question too cheem... bec i just cant figure out what does the parent's cpf accrued amount got to do with the child?
i will think, when the flat is sold, proceeds is used to settle outstanding loan, then remaining go to the child... same for the decease's cpf amount, child inherit...
Actually when the parents die and the cpf money is being pass to the kids... Is it past to them in cash or to their cpf?
I was told b4 to be born and raise in Singapore is my blessing.
Even when I was in US, my colleague told me she likes our CPF scheme compare to their social security scheme.
There is a very fragile balance for govt to strike between helping ppl and preventing ppl from abusing the schemes. I feel sometimes govt do too much resulting ppl having the mindset that everything govt is expected to solve. U want govt to solve every problem?
In return, govt expect u to follow their plans since u expect them to solve your problems.
Money don't drop from sky, and we don't have oil like Burnei. The only way govt make money is from it's ppl but that would be evil thus govt decide to take ppl's money to make more money in hope to reduce dependence on ppl for money. Is that wrong?
When I was in HK, I ask ppl why there are old ppl staying in "cages". That's becos there is no CPF life, no CPF, no crap to help them thus old ppl have to survive by themselves and "cages" has the cheapest rent in town. Have u seen the "public housing" in HK?
I compare us very closely with HK, becos I see a mirror image while working there. I knew Singapore will become the next HK and I see govt is try to prevent what happened in HK occuring in Sg. This including housing prices (with all the CRs), healthcare, old folks care etc
In the 90s, there was various news of old folks after getting CPF monies kenna cheated by China man, woman or spend it frivolously ending up by 60s they are broke. That's why govt created minimum sum becos ppl is dieing later....and later.....
Maybe I am just old and remembered some stuff.
Although, I agree this elite mindset must be killed.
Nobody is better then anybody, everybody should be given a chance before kenna shot down.
cpf is good for those who do not know how to invest and I support it.
for those who know how to invest, they will not like cpf as they claim that they can make more money than the 2.6% CPF pays..
if everybody claim that they can make more money by investing on their own and if they lose money in the end, who do you think they will blame?
people will blame gov for not setting up policing to prevent this and that...
so I agree with your post.. cpf generally is good for the public...
even I now know how to invest and surely can make more than 2.6%, i still support cpf because i dont want gov to use tax payer money to feed the bankrupt, the poor who lose all their money in crisis like the lehman, 2011.. etc
What is Money?
Money = Debt.
CPF is good, it's a plan for the future......
Anyway, the poster looks like it's done by an extremist.
http://www.fivestarsandamoon.com/roy-ngerng-the-truth-exposed-the-dirty-cpf-hdb-scheme-to-trick-singaporeans/
This article highlights some inaccuracies in a post by Roy Ngerng on his blog The Heart Truths.
The central contention in the post is regarding the rules governing the return of CPF savings withdrawn for housing. Mr Ngerng wants to have the right to decide whether to return the savings withdrawn for housing upon sale of the property because you should decide how much to “put into the bank”. He also takes issue with the need to return CPF savings inclusive of accrued interest because he sees this as interest that Singaporeans are paying to the Government for the use of their own money.
There are several problems with his arguments. First, the CPF is not a bank account. The purpose of the CPF is to provide a mechanism through which Singaporeans can save up for their retirement needs. Funds left in the CPF account earn specified rates of return. Some funds can also be withdrawn for investment in property or in other investment assets under the CPFIS scheme. The returns made on investments using CPF funds should contribute to the pool of savings being set aside for retirement. This includes the returns made on investments in property.
The accrued interest on the principal amounts withdrawn for housing comes from these returns. It ensures that monies in the OA grow at the same rate of return regardless of whether the money is left in the CPF account or withdrawn for housing. If the property purchased using CPF does not appreciate in value, the individual is only required to return whatever is the residual from the proceeds of his sale after paying off any outstanding mortgage. This could be less than the principal value of the CPF sums withdrawn.
It is not correct to describe the accrued interest on principal sums withdrawn for housing as interest paid to the Government and to equate it to the interest paid on a mortgage. This is because the accrued interest on the CPF savings withdrawn is part of your pool of savings which you will be able to drawn upon in your retirement years. Since the money is returned to the OA, it can also be used to finance your subsequent housing purchases.
It is also strange that in the example Mr Ngerng uses to explain how the value of the accrued interest grows over time, the value of the HDB flat remains the same. In fact, based on the Resale Price Index from 1990 to 2014, a 4-rm HDB flat purchased 24 years ago would be worth about 6 times its purchase price today. This would mean that Singaporeans selling their flats today would very likely enjoy cash profits on top of any CPF sums that would have to be returned to their CPF accounts. In addition their CPF savings would have grown and they would be in a much stronger position to meet their retirement needs.
The article also questions why the Minimum Sum has been increasing annually and why these increases are higher than the inflation rate. It alleges that the reason for doing so is to allow the government to retain more CPF monies in order to earn more from its investments.
This is not true either. The MS increases are necessary for two reasons:
1. Since 2003, the MS has been growing from $80,000 to reach a target of $120,000 in 2003 dollars in 2015. The increase in real value caters to Singaporeans’ rising expectations of what is considered a basic standard of living in retirement. (For similar reasons, from 1995 to 2003, the MS was increased from $40,000 to $80,000.)
2. The MS also increases with inflation to preserve its purchasing value.
The MS is not sized based on the government’s desire to retain more CPF monies in the system. Rather, it is sized to provide for basic retirement needs. If you have the full MS in cash at age 55 today ($148,000), the payouts that you receive from draw-down age should be able to cover the expenditure needs of a two-member retiree household in the 2nd quintile (in other words, between the 20th percentile and 40th percentile of households).
The article further claims that “you will never have enough in your CPF and will never be able to retire”. Yet, if we look at MS attainment rates, the figures are more encouraging. Among active CPF members who turned 55 in 2013, about 49% met their Minimum Sum in cash and property pledge – a significant improvement from 38% five years ago in 2009. For today’s new entrants who contribute to the CPF consistently, we expect that about 70% will be able to attain the inflation- adjusted MS fully in cash savings, if they make prudent housing choices.
An Illustration of some Misleading Points in the Article
In addition to the arguments above, several of the other pieces of data used in the article are erroneous, outdated or misleading. We have tried to explain this in the following examples:
1. Chart 1 misleads by suggesting that members’ CPF savings have gone missing.
He claims that a median income earner should have accumulated $700,000 in his OA and SA account by the age of 55, and questions why this is not happening. In doing so he seems to suggest that Singaporeans are being short-changed because they are not accumulating as much in retirement savings as they rightfully should given the CPF contribution rates.
The chart is misleading. First, many Singaporeans do not have such high balances in their CPF accounts because they have withdrawn a large part of their CPF savings for housing. This means that even though the money from an individual’s CPF contributions does not sit in his CPF account, it has been used effectively to secure a roof over his head and gain an asset that can appreciate in value over time. This is a good thing, as in many other countries retirees must worry about paying for rentals out of their retirement income because they cannot afford to own housing.
Second, in an MOM-commissioned occasional paper on retirement adequacy done by NUS and published in 2012, we take into account housing withdrawals so we can get a more realistic picture of retirement balances. This then enables us to determine what a reasonable contribution rate might be to help most Singaporeans accumulate enough in their CPF balances to meet their retirement needs.
2. References to international studies are outdated.
Charts 2-4 refer to several overseas studies and their conclusions on the adequacy of Singapore’s pension system. His references are in some cases outdated. For example, he refers to the 2011 OECD
page2image28280 page2image28440 page2image28600
Pensions at a Glance Report. In fact in the there are more recent versions of these reports with updated figures on the level of retirement adequacy provided by the CPF system. In the latest OECD report published in 2013, Singapore’s reported net Income Replacement Rate has increased from 16% to 42% after OECD took into consideration that OA savings also contribute towards retirement income.
3. Singapore’s social security contribution rates are high, but they include contributions that can be used to provide for housing and healthcare, in addition to retirement.
Chart 6 refers to Singapore’s social security contribution rate as being one of the highest in the world. However, the comparisons are inaccurate because the social security contribution rates of other countries are meant exclusively to provide for pension benefits in retirement. In Singapore’s case, the 37% overall contribution rate includes contributions to the Ordinary Account which can be used for housing and the Medisave Account to meet healthcare needs. These are unique features of Singapore’s social security system where the Government has provided an avenue for Singaporeans to save to meet these critical expenditures, and these monies can be used even before reaching retirement. Only the contribution to the Special Account is ringfenced for retirement needs and the maximum SA contribution rate is 9.5%.
4. Chart 9 misleads by suggesting that the Government is paying 2.5% on all CPF savings. Chart 9 also compares the returns on pension funds in several other countries.
The 2.5% interest rate quoted for Singapore is the minimum return that is provided on OA balances because OA funds are liquid and can be withdrawn for housing. The return on the SA and MA account currently stands at 4% and an extra 1% is provided on the first $60,000 of CPF balances to boost the savings of lower balance members. Monies in the Retirement Account and the CPF LIFE fund also earn 4% interest.
In the recent Budget Debate the Ministry of Finance provided some important considerations that we must bear in mind when comparing returns on CPF funds with returns on other pension funds.
First, such returns must be looked at in the context of the performance of domestic currencies. Interest rates are typically higher in countries whose currencies have tended to depreciate over time because higher interest rates compensate for weaker currencies. Second, pension funds abroad especially in emerging markets, are predominantly invested in their domestic capital markets and are exposed to market risk in those markets. Should the markets underperform, Governments may find they are unable to deliver on their obligations to pensioners. This has happened to several pension funds and has led to uncertainty for pensioners and the need to undertake significant structural reform to pension systems.
auyiah these days all would like to mislead people. Coz there are people who wished to be mislead. coz Truth they don't want to believe mah.
cpf is good for those who do not know how to invest and I support it.
for those who know how to invest, they will not like cpf as they claim that they can make more money than the 2.6% CPF pays..
if everybody claim that they can make more money by investing on their own and if they lose money in the end, who do you think they will blame?
people will blame gov for not setting up policing to prevent this and that...
so I agree with your post.. cpf generally is good for the public...
even I now know how to invest and surely can make more than 2.6%, i still support cpf because i dont want gov to use tax payer money to feed the bankrupt, the poor who lose all their money in crisis like the lehman, 2011.. etc
totally agree with this. but there are people out there writing articles like these trying to deceive many ignorant people.
this is the most funny part of the article :D
If you’ve decided to attend the event, do pledge a $1 commitment to attend this event. Each pledge will be used for the event. We hope that more Singaporeans would take a stand and come together in a show of unity to let others know that it is time we will no longer allow our rights to be abused right in front of our eyes. We need to take our country back. You can transfer your $1 by ATM, Internet banking, or cheque, etc, to POSB Savings Account No. 279-12328-0.
should like gilbert need $$$ to buy his kopi.
Can someone please enlighten me on how much truth is there in the para below from the article by Roy Ngerng? This really scared the hell out of me!!:scared-1: Thank you in advance.
Now, note that the CPF accrued interest I’ve shown you so far is only at the 30-years mark. But do you know that as long as you do not pay this CPF accrued interest back to the CPF, this accrued interest just keeps growing
So it doesn’t stop there.
Most people never know about this CPF accrued interest, so they wouldn’t have paid “back” this accrued interest and so, this CPF accrued interest would keep growing. In fact, you most likely would only see any mention of this “accrued interest” on the CPF website which informs you of what you need to pay back when you sell your house.
If the accrued interest keeps growing until the 40 year mark, it would have grown to $396,339, or more than the stated value of the flat of $300,000!
And after 50 years, it would have grown to $621,051, or more than twice the stated value of the flat (Chart 19)! Now do you know why most Singaporeans would never be able to retire?
Chart 19
Let me give you a bit of perspective. Initially, you had thought that together with the mortgage, you are only paying $405,960 for the flat right? But when you add in the CPF accrued interest of $220,795 at the 30 year point, the total amount that you are actually paying for your $300,000 flat would be $626,755.
So, after the 30 year point, your mortgage would have ended but you still have to continue to pay because the CPF accrued interest keeps increasing and increasing non-stop! After 50 years, your $300,000 flat would cost $1,027,011 (Chart 20)!
The “mortgage” never ends! The PAP has devised an insidious scheme to make you keep paying (without you knowing) so that your CPF keeps dwindling (for their use).
CPF accrued interest = the amount u should have earned from CPF if u had not withdraw it for your properties, it doesn't matter to you if are not selling away the properties.
if you do sell away your property, you must use your proceeds to refund this accrued interest into your CPF Ordinary acct. This money is still yours and can be used for further property purchase or investment.
if your proceeds is not enough to cover the CPF accrued interest, you do not need to come out with extra cash to meet the accrued interest amount.
In theory, CPF accrued interest will keep growing as mention above, 30yrs, 40yrs, etc.
But in practical, you can choose to withdraw CPF at 55 yrs old.
So, at age 55, CPF accrued interest amount become irrelevant.
if the sale of hdb proceeding is not enough to cover the accrued interest, will it stop there?
ie: some years later, buy another property and sell, will the sales proceeding (assuming make money) require to cover the previous "shortfall" of accrued interest? ie: accrued interest clawback?
CPF accrued interest = the amount u should have earned from CPF if u had not withdraw it for your properties, it doesn't matter to you if are not selling away the properties.
if you do sell away your property, you must use your proceeds to refund this accrued interest into your CPF Ordinary acct. This money is still yours and can be used for further property purchase or investment.
if your proceeds is not enough to cover the CPF accrued interest, you do not need to come out with extra cash to meet the accrued interest amount.
In theory, CPF accrued interest will keep growing as mention above, 30yrs, 40yrs, etc.
But in practical, you can choose to withdraw CPF at 55 yrs old.
So, at age 55, CPF accrued interest amount become irrelevant.
if the sale of hdb proceeding is not enough to cover the accrued interest, will it stop there?
ie: some years later, buy another property and sell, will the sales proceeding (assuming make money) require to cover the previous "shortfall" of accrued interest? ie: accrued interest clawback?
Q:Both my co-owner and I are selling our property with insufficient sale proceeds for the full CPF refunds to our CPF accounts. How much do we need to refund?
A: If you sell your property at or above its current market value and the selling price is insufficient to repay the outstanding housing loan and full CPF refunds required, we will allocate the proceeds between your co-owner’s and your CPF account, as follows:
( Your CPF P+I* / All owners’ CPF P+I* ) x Net sale proceeds^
( Your co-owner’s CPF P+I* / All owners’ CPF P+I* ) x Net sale proceeds^
You and your co-owner do not need to top up the shortfall in cash as long as the property is sold at or above its current market value.
* P+I refers to the CPF principal amount withdrawn for the property and its accrued interest.
^ Net sale proceeds refers to the selling price less outstanding housing loan
CPF accrued interest = the amount u should have earned from CPF if u had not withdraw it for your properties, it doesn't matter to you if are not selling away the properties.
if you do sell away your property, you must use your proceeds to refund this accrued interest into your CPF Ordinary acct. This money is still yours and can be used for further property purchase or investment.
if your proceeds is not enough to cover the CPF accrued interest, you do not need to come out with extra cash to meet the accrued interest amount.
In theory, CPF accrued interest will keep growing as mention above, 30yrs, 40yrs, etc.
But in practical, you can choose to withdraw CPF at 55 yrs old.
So, at age 55, CPF accrued interest amount become irrelevant.
[/I]
If i leave the property to my child after i pass on and he decides to sell it for whatever reason, can he pocket all the cash from the transaction? or will be taxed heavily because of the so called accured interest? thanks very much.
[/I]
If i leave the property to my child after i pass on and he decides to sell it for whatever reason, can he pocket all the cash from the transaction? or will be taxed heavily because of the so called accured interest? thanks very much.
Yes. He will get all the Net sale proceeds, nothing deducted due to accrued interest.
Net sale proceeds meaning, some money has to go back to CPF? BUt i'm already gone, so who's CPF account would it go to? apologies for my ignorance and thank you for your patience.
:ashamed1:
Yes. He will get all the Net sale proceeds, nothing deducted due to accrued interest.
Net sale proceeds meaning, some money has to go back to CPF? BUt i'm already gone, so who's CPF account would it go to? apologies for my ignorance and thank you for your patience.
:ashamed1:
Net sale proceeds refers to the selling price less outstanding housing loan.
nothing to go back to anybody's cpf...
Net sale proceeds refers to the selling price less outstanding housing loan.
nothing to go back to anybody's cpf...
THank you Thank you!!!:):)
THank you Thank you!!!:):)
dun be worry about the article from ROY NGERNG, is really senseless...
read it just for laughing at his ignorance :D
u can find more info at CPF website: Post death matters (http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/Losing-Loved-One/LO2.htm)
dun be worry about the article from ROY NGERNG, is really senseless...
read it just for laughing at his ignorance :D
u can find more info at CPF website: Post death matters (http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/CPF/my-cpf/Losing-Loved-One/LO2.htm)
everything he write is correct, there is only 1 mistake, the title, he misspelt 'half' as 'heart'
The author of the article is making a false assumptions with intention to confuse people. Interest paid to CPF goes back you the person acct no like disappear into someone else pocket.
And when they buy their next place the so call INTEREST are use again to pay for the new prop. so wats wrong with that?
If a person don't sell the accrue interest have also no meaning or impact.
Alternative view. :cheers1:
http://sonofadud.com/2014/04/04/cpf-and-hdb-10-real-dirty-tricks/
just thinking out loud, why do we need appreciating asset (HDB) for retirement purposes?
why can't we have higher CPF interest, so even if HDB price is maintained lows we still have enough in CPF for retirement?
i would rather be asset poor (low HDB price) and cash rich (big CPF) and smile when i look at my CPF statement every month.
Cpf is good if govt allows us to withdraw all monies when one reaches retiring age. Eg 55 or 65. Cpf is good if we are allow to use it for critic illness. If cpf is a successfully scheme, why didnt the govt reveal the our cpf balances?
Why cant the government put 1Million into my CPF account instead?
The real question is how can it be paid with a aging population. Or rely on the free market to pay for it. i.e. housing where it can be monetized.
Also property in a country always increase when the value of the country increases. to disallow HDB to participate in that would it be fair for the population?
The other question to ask is if HDB is of no value would people want to own it? We asian always belive in owning something that holds value. also if HDB have no value would people take care of it? i.e will it become a getto for the poor only? would that be fair?
Why can the government make me a millionaire and take care of me head to toe from cradle to grave? Why why why?
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/15/where-your-cpf-money-is-going-learning-from-the-city-harvest-trial/
part 2 lai liao :gun3:
https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/posts/10152498158376383
BREAKING NEWS:
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong has sent a letter of demand to blogger Roy Ngerng Yi Ling for defamation.
The Prime minister is represented by Mr Davinder Singh, Senior Counsel.
Mr Ngerng, who blogs at The Heart Truth, is being represented by Mr M. Ravi.
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/15/where-your-cpf-money-is-going-learning-from-the-city-harvest-trial/
part 2 lai liao :gun3:
https://www.facebook.com/theonlinecitizen/posts/10152498158376383
BREAKING NEWS:
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong has sent a letter of demand to blogger Roy Ngerng Yi Ling for defamation.
The Prime minister is represented by Mr Davinder Singh, Senior Counsel.
Mr Ngerng, who blogs at The Heart Truth, is being represented by Mr M. Ravi.
Good about time to invite the guy for coffee. Freedom on speech come with responsibility !
the lawyer letter can be found in ah Roy's website :
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/19/i-have-just-been-sued-by-the-singapore-prime-minister-lee-hsien-loong/
nowadays sue leow just say sorry, remove articles then case close. if press too hard will get backfire.
nowadays sue leow just say sorry, remove articles then case close. if press too hard will get backfire.
the last point in page 2 of the lawyer letter:
"13(b) your written offer of damages and costs"
i wonder how much Roy will offer ? :rolleyes:
Either you or your children still get back your CPF money at the end of the day, and perhaps more: https://www.cpf.gov.sg/cpf_trans/ssl/financial_model/lifecal/Life_Estimator.asp
The only catch is if you live longer (which is expected with longer life expectancy), someone has to pay for your monthly payout, so the government has to keep growing the population and economy.
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/19/i-have-just-been-sued-by-the-singapore-prime-minister-lee-hsien-loong/
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/19/i-have-just-been-sued-by-the-singapore-prime-minister-lee-hsien-loong/
this guy gone case .. unrepentant summore..
There are two type of people who become famous.
1. Do the right thing to become famous.
2. Do stupid thing to become famous.
There are two type of people who become famous.
1. Do the right thing to become famous.
2. Do stupid thing to become famous.
Got another type is famous by accident.
Got another type is famous by accident.
I LIKE. Got another type is famous by accident.
nowadays sue leow just say sorry, remove articles then case close. if press too hard will get backfire.
Rather than suing
It will be interesting if PM can debunk all the points raised by Roy
Of course cannot use words like "idiot" and "kamgong" :D:D:)
Rather than suing
It will be interesting if PM can debunk all the points raised by Roy
Of course cannot use words like "idiot" and "kamgong" :D:D:)
There are a different between slander and pts to debunk. If the article is out to slander i think its a waste of time to even debunk. If everyone so free write a article without facts with the intended to slander. Then how much time is needed to debunk each of them? won't it be c bay bo eng?
Its fair to remind the jokers that freedom of speech do come with responsibility. Freedom to speak is != to Freedom to Slander.
There are a different between slander and pts to debunk. If the article is out to slander i think its a waste of time to even debunk. If everyone so free write a article without facts with the intended to slander. Then how much time is needed to debunk each of them? won't it be c bay bo eng?
Its fair to remind the jokers that freedom of speech do come with responsibility. Freedom to speak is != to Freedom to Slander.
Referring to his earlier blog entries
not the one that gets him into trouble la
Sorry if caused confusion :cheers1:
Yes, but instead they have lost the golden opportunity to clarify and debunk and let people make an intelligent judgement.
'silencing' people with law suit will only make people bring the discussions 'underground', just like if they try to out-law prostitution and gambling.............................
In this way, they will lose votes without even knowing why. :o
Soon, minority and his gang will need to go around coffeeshops, heartlands, and markets etc everywhere over all corners in Singapore to snook around to know what the people are discussing and thinking instead of just gathering such information online in comfort from his office............... :p
Referring to his earlier blog entries
not the one that gets him into trouble la
Sorry if caused confusion :cheers1:
Rather than suing
It will be interesting if PM can debunk all the points raised by Roy
Of course cannot use words like "idiot" and "kamgong" :D:D:)
Yes, but instead they have lost the golden opportunity to clarify and debunk.
'silencing' people with law suit will only make people bring the discussions 'underground', just like if they try to out-law prostitution and gambling.............................
Hi Teddy Sir
Precisely
believed many Singaporean deep in their heart will want to know but are remaining silent
Just that Roy is more vocal
Read his earlier blog entries and he was very cautious until his last entry ..he has stepped into a landmines and it exploded right in his face
Actually, regardless of how he put it, he has many questions and he is looking for answers from the establishment, as are many people, if anybody just bother to read what has been discussed, talked about, whether on internet, at coffeeshops, at private places, at markets, food courts etc.
Instead of providing the clarifications and details, they prefer law suit.....
What can we say?
Will law suit 'silence' such thoughts in everybody's mind who have doubts and waiting for clarifications that is not forth-coming?
Take the eg of forever increasing CPF min sum. If the $155k min sum can provide a payment of $1.2k per month for 1 person is still not enough, then, how can $300 per month of financial help to the needy and $1000 per month of min wage enough for people to support a family of 4 or more? So, either CPF min sum has been raised too high or the help and min wage is not high enough. Which is correct?
Also, I read somewhere that >80% of people in Singapore will never be able to able accumulate the amount of the CPF min sum by the time they retire! So, what is the point of raising the CPF min sum by so much in this case? :doh:
Hi Teddy Sir
Precisely
believed many Singaporean deep in their heart will want to know but are remaining silent
Just that Roy is more vocal
Read his earlier blog entries and he was very cautious until his last entry ..he has stepped into a landmines and it exploded right in his face
phantom_opera
20-05-14, 11:08
when the voting population is more educated and more demanding, they will have to increase the return of CPF and do more top-ups
otherwise they will lose more seats
they did it in the past by pegging CPF SMRA return to 10y SGS + 1%
but QE crashed the SGS bond yield so people do not see higher return at all :doh: again this assumes the inflation rate is accurate ;)
plan B has to come e.g. peg CPF OA rate to inflation rate or 2.5% whichever is higher
Actually, regardless of how he put it, he has many questions and he is looking for answers from the establishment, as are many people, if anybody just bother to read what has been discussed, talked about, whether on internet, at coffeeshops, at private places, at markets, food courts etc.
Instead of providing the clarifications and details, they prefer law suit.....
What can we say?
Will law suit 'silence' such thoughts in everybody's mind who have doubts and waiting for clarifications that is not forth-coming?
Take the eg of forever increasing CPF min sum. If the $155k min sum can provide a payment of $1.2k per month for 1 person is still not enough, then, how can $300 per month of financial help to the needy and $1000 per month of min wage enough for people to support a family of 4 or more? So, either CPF min sum has been raised too high or the help and min wage is not high enough. Which is correct?
Also, I read somewhere that >80% of people in Singapore will never be able to able accumulate the amount of the CPF min sum by the time they retire! So, what is the point of raising the CPF min sum by so much in this case? :doh:
if this roy can write like u, he wont get sued.
Also do not understand why keep increasing Minimum Sum :scared-4:
Instead CPF can pay out Interest rate a few points above Inflation
Does it not benefit peasants like us more ?
After all our 2 Sovereign Funds are generating annually 16% to 17% returns ????
But then again, I know I am dreaming :D:cheers1:
Think you must be dreaming....................... :p
If they behave like insurance companies, they will only pay you the guaranteed portion + minimal additional bonus while keeping the the remaining profits even if they earn more, what can you do about it?
That is why I never buy whole life insurance, because I only look at the guaranteed column and the return is just SO SO SUPER LOW! :simmering:
Also do not understand why keep increasing Minimum Sum :scared-4:
Instead CPF can pay out Interest rate a few points above Inflation
Does it not benefit peasants like us more ?
After all our 2 Sovereign Funds are generating annually 16% to 17% returns ????
But then again, I know I am dreaming :D:cheers1:
Yes, but instead they have lost the golden opportunity to clarify and debunk and let people make an intelligent judgement.
'silencing' people with law suit will only make people bring the discussions 'underground', just like if they try to out-law prostitution and gambling.............................
In this way, they will lose votes without even knowing why. :o
Soon, minority and his gang will need to go around coffeeshops, heartlands, and markets etc everywhere over all corners in Singapore to snook around to know what the people are discussing and thinking instead of just gathering such information online in comfort from his office............... :p
so by slandering is asking for clarity? there are intelligent way to ask for clarity verses slander.
u mean its right to slander with malicious intent ?
Referring to his earlier blog entries
not the one that gets him into trouble la
Sorry if caused confusion :cheers1:
Well he is stupid. why must slander ? thats basically malicious intent involved. He looking for more donations?
Think you must be dreaming....................... :p
If they behave like insurance companies, they will only pay you the guaranteed portion + minimal additional bonus while keeping the the remaining profits even if they earn more, what can you do about it?
That is why I never buy whole life insurance, because I only look at the guaranteed column and the return is just SO SO SUPER LOW! :simmering:
Yalor
what to do
do not have the guts of Roy and one of our former President
so can only continue to dream lor :D:cheers1:
so by slandering is asking for clarity? there are intelligent way to ask for clarity verses slander.
u mean its right to slander with malicious intent ?
Aiyah
asked Intelligent Question
Answer come back were
What to you think ?
take 52 manhours to work it out :scared-5::confused:
Not that it had never been ask before
Got ask like never ask like that la
Aiyah
asked Intelligent Question
Answer come back were
What to you think ?
take 52 manhours to work it out :scared-5::confused:
Not that it had never been ask before
Got ask like never ask like that la
So slander and rumour mongering is right way to do it?
So slander and rumour mongering is right way to do it?
Ok, I got it
Sue and sue is the only way to silence them
shut their mouth up :doh:
Freedom to speak != to Freedom to Slander.
The right to freedom of expression is recognized as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Article 19 of the ICCPR states that "[e]veryone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference" and "everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice". Article 19 goes on to say that the exercise of these rights carries "special duties and responsibilities" and may "therefore be subject to certain restrictions" when necessary "[f]or respect of the rights or reputation of others" or "[f]or the protection of national security or of public order (order public), or of public health or morals".[2][3]
Ok, I got it
Sue and sue is the only way to silence them
shut their mouth up :doh:
Well if they question smartly and not slander. This guy is out to slander with the article. He deserve what he get.
So you are saying that President Ong has slander and rumour mongering??? :doh:
Did he get the list of Singapore assets and their values he wanted in order to fulfill his job diligently as the President of Singapore? :ashamed1:
So slander and rumour mongering is right way to do it?
Aiyah
asked Intelligent Question
Answer come back were
What to you think ?
take 52 manhours to work it out :scared-5::confused:
Not that it had never been ask before
Got ask like never ask like that la
So you are saying that President Ong has slander and rumour mongering??? :doh:
Did he get the list of Singapore assets and their values he wanted in order to fulfill his job diligently as the President of Singapore? :ashamed1:
Did he use the same stupid style as this spider? get ur facts right. like that u are say I can say anything I want about u? as long as I can get a public to think u are something u are not by making up stories to slander u? thats is right way to go? :doh::doh::doh:
Did he use the same stupid style as this spider? get ur facts right. like that u are say I can say anything I want about u? as long as I can get a public to think u are something u are not by making up stories to slander u? thats is right way to go? :doh::doh::doh:
No wonder Singaporean are DAFTS :doh:
That includes you and me :D
Not I say one hor :D
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/19/i-have-just-been-sued-by-the-singapore-prime-minister-lee-hsien-loong/
how come davinder singh signed as "Drew E Napier" ?
looks like now everybody can make make own Drew E Napier stamp, their letter head and start sending letters.
Maybe this Roy can send a forged letter to sue the PM.
ps. lawyer also so good, also give sample letter of apology.
also regarding point 11.
"foreseeable... that it would be republished over the internet."
PAP youth video supposed to be for private screening, yet it is uploaded to youtube :doh:
IF pap youth cannot forsee that uploading private video to youtube would be republished over the internet, whatmore this Roy?
you expect Roy to be smarter than pap youth meh?
or govt hold Roy to higher standard than pap youth.
So you are saying people like you should NOT use same stupid style as this spider?
Haven't you been saying anything you want about me like KNN, village fool, clown, talk cock, flipping prata, pig brain, blind, etc etc since long time ago?
Please get your fact right! Looks like you have been slandering me all along!
If the establishment seriously believes in the need to control internet in terms of malicious slander and rumour mongering etc, they should sue you and hurl you to court first for malicious slander, rumour mongering for SO SO LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please see below for evidence and proofs of your slander and rumour mongering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did he use the same stupid style as this spider? get ur facts right. like that u are say I can say anything I want about u? as long as I can get a public to think u are something u are not by making up stories to slander u? thats is right way to go? :doh::doh::doh:
No wonder Singaporean are DAFTS :doh:
That includes you and me :D
Not I say one hor :D
As usual u are a blind village fool that refuse to see anything but ur point. can u explain to me why how will anyone US feel so much cheaper when exchange rate is 1.8? No one feel US is cheaper or worth it compare to SGP when exchange rate is 1.8.
Its only lately when exchange rate drop to 1.25 people feel US is a good deal!
And why inflation on the products are not raising that much is also becoz with volume the vendors margin are lower but still acceptable!
So if ur grey matter is lacking u need to go buy a pig brain to por a bit.
I are like flipping prata. 1.8 exchange rate us cheaper meh ? By then u won't feel its cheaper ! U really like to fudge n flip prata right ?
Hey village fool . I akreadybsay comparing products price taking a Xbox one price for example. Us appear cheap becoz of the exchanger rates n USD have been devalued . N US have a much larger deamand n they disyrubtors of product can still survive with lower margins ! How many container loads can us consume verses Singapore then ? Since u so clever to look at containers?
Who cam command a better bargain price some one buying ONE container verses someone buying a ship load of it? Economic of scale u village fool or clown.
WAH U are so Stupid.. KNN = Know Nothing u NUT!!!!
U have a fitly mind. thats clouding ur judgement to be narrow and fueling ur Xenophobia.
"What is KNN"?
Is that a bad word or what? Anyway, I don't understand but I sense that is a bad word.
As usual, that can only spill out of your mouth, a bloody stupid idiot with no brain and no moral value, that has no heart for the sick, the disabled, the aged who can't work, the handicap, and young and infant who have no ability to earn money but yet need to pay GST and pay through their nose medical expenses when they fall ill!
And you expect these middle-income people to be able to afford Class B ward for many years into their retirement just because they can't stay in Class C ward? Since I don't know what is "KNN", I will return it to you:
"You KNN your mother is it?"
KNN again talk cock. since u can afford why are u clogging up the C ward! let the people who need !!!
another case of talk cock.
So you are saying people like you should NOT use same stupid style as this spider?
Haven't you been saying anything you want about me like KNN, village fool, clown, talk cock, flipping prata, pig brain, blind, etc etc since long time ago?
Please get your fact right! Looks like you have been slandering me all along!
If the establishment seriously believes in the need to control internet in terms of malicious slander and rumour mongering etc, they should sue you and hurl you to court first for malicious slander, rumour mongering for SO SO LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please see below for evidence and proofs of your slander and rumour mongering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sue me then! wats stopping u! U are like for this type of style right? Debunk me then!
Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
Yes, but instead they have lost the golden opportunity to clarify and debunk.
'silencing' people with law suit will only make people bring the discussions 'underground', just like if they try to out-law prostitution and gambling.............................
So you are so stupid idiot that is why don't know why a product sold in US is cheaper than in Singapore for same product manufactured and shipped from same other foreign country?! :rolleyes:
Then what are trying to argue as though you are expert? :tsk-tsk:
Unlike other people, I don't believe in suing other people................
I believe in debunking all those slander and rumour mongering, pull the lowly rat out of their hole, EXPOSE and make a mockery of the low-form creature and let everybody in this world know what kind of "rat" with no moral character and ethic value that person IS despite of whatever high ethic, moral value and character they have blown own trumpet for!
Shame on you minority! :tongue3:
Sue me then! wats stopping u!
So you are saying people like you should NOT use same stupid style as this spider?
Haven't you been saying anything you want about me like KNN, village fool, clown, talk cock, flipping prata, pig brain, blind, etc etc since long time ago?
Please get your fact right! Looks like you have been slandering me all along!
If the establishment seriously believes in the need to control internet in terms of malicious slander and rumour mongering etc, they should sue you and hurl you to court first for malicious slander, rumour mongering for SO SO LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please see below for evidence and proofs of your slander and rumour mongering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What to expect from this gay?
He just can't control his temper.
If investment loses money do govt cut money from CPF or they still payout 2.5%? During lehman bro investment loses alot but they still payout 2.5% ordinary account and 4% special account.
Unlike other people, I don't believe in suing other people................
I believe in debunking all those slander and rumour mongering, pull the lowly rat out of their hole, EXPOSE and make a mockery of the low-form creature and let everybody in this world know what kind of "rat" with no moral character and ethic value that person IS despite of whatever high ethic, moral value and character they have blown own trumpet for!
Shame on you minority! :tongue3:
Oh really? then proof to me I am slandering u then. don't come talk to me about moral when u have none to start wait.
Donno who is the one blowing a empty horn. :doh::doh::doh:
Oh, forgot to highlight the vulgarity part that you hurled at me. Just that alone is sufficient for me to hurl you to court.
Since you are challenging me to sue you, then, please give me your name, address, IC number and I will issue you a legal letter about the vulgarity you hurled at me.....................
Oh really? then proof to me I am slandering u then. don't come talk to me about moral when u have none to start wait.
Donno who is the one blowing a empty horn. :doh::doh::doh:
KNN again talk cock. since u can afford why are u clogging up the C ward! let the people who need !!!
another case of talk cock.
Oh, forgot to highlight the vulgarity part that you hurled at me. Just that alone is sufficient for me to hurl you to court.
Since you are challenging me to sue you, then, please give me your name, address, IC number and I will issue you a legal letter about the vulgarity you hurled at me.....................
KNN is vulgar? I told you its mean Know Nothing NUT!. U want to read it as vulgar is because you have a Dirty BRAIN To start with.
COME ! I challenge u!
YES I REPEAT U TALK COCK... and incase u don't understand what COCK means. let me help u wiki it.
cock1
kɒk/Submit
noun
1.
BRITISH
a male bird, especially of a domestic fowl.
synonyms: rooster, cockerel, male fowl, capon; More
minority, Looks like you have no NUT to stand behind what you said and meant! :doh:
At least we know the Roy guy has the NUT to put his name to what he wrote and stand behind what he said and meant! He has much better character than you do! :cheers1:
KNN is vulgar? I told you its mean Know Nothing NUT!. U want to read it as vulgar is because you have a Dirty BRAIN To start with.
COME ! I challenge u!
Oh, forgot to highlight the vulgarity part that you hurled at me. Just that alone is sufficient for me to hurl you to court.
Since you are challenging me to sue you, then, please give me your name, address, IC number and I will issue you a legal letter about the vulgarity you hurled at me.....................
Oh really? then proof to me I am slandering u then. don't come talk to me about moral when u have none to start wait.
Donno who is the one blowing a empty horn.
KNN again talk cock. since u can afford why are u clogging up the C ward! let the people who need !!!
[QUOTE=teddybear;480005]Looks like you have no NUT to stand behind what you said and meant! :doh:
At least we know the Roy guy has the NUT to put his name to what he wrote and stand behind what he said and meant! He has much better character than you do! :cheers1:
Well That guy have no brian u have none too ! As usual u want to force people to accept ur interpertation? Cannot accept the truth of my clarification? I am just using ur style against u. u cannot accept it? LOL! Come Come. show us ur NUT then!
reporter2 not going to make a stand?
later like ringo33 vs patrickstar, r33 vs crusader, crusader vs reporter2?
You hurled vulgarity at me and now you are denying?
Obviously you have NO NUT at all! Ha ha ha!
Otherwise, show us that you have nut. If you have NUT, then please stand behind what you said and meant (just like Roy Ngerng) and stop beating around the bush.
Give me your name and address and IC number and I will follow up to ask my lawyer to issue you a legal letter, same style like what PM Lee issue to Roy Ngerng, including your statement of apology, and compensating me and paying for all my legal costs....................... :D
Well That guy have no brian u have none too ! I am just using ur style against u. u cannot accept it? LOL! Come Come. show us ur NUT then!
Looks like you have no NUT to stand behind what you said and meant! :doh:
At least we know the Roy guy has the NUT to put his name to what he wrote and stand behind what he said and meant! He has much better character than you do! :cheers1:
You hurled vulgarity at me and now you are denying?
Obviously you have NO NUT at all! Ha ha ha!
Otherwise, show us that you have nut. If you have NUT, then please stand behind what you said and meant (just like Roy Ngerng) and stop beating around the bush.
Give me your name and address and IC number and I will follow up to ask my lawyer to issue you a legal letter, same style like what PM Lee issue to Roy Ngerng, including your statement of apology, and compensating me and paying for all my legal costs....................... :D
u have no NUT to accept that you have a DIRTY Mind? Common Stand up to it and admit that you have a dirty mind! Stand up like the spider you so admire then! where is Ur NUT!!!!
Becoze u ask me to give u I must?Who are u! Why do it this way u give out ur IC no. and bank acct no. we DONAT $ to u for your medical care. U ARE A NUT CASE!
What to expect from a gay's blog?
He just can't control his temper.
People already warned him to shut up but he still iron teeth. So no choice ought to be taught a lesson.
People already warned him to shut up but he still iron teeth. So no choice ought to be taught a lesson.
he deserve what he get. If one want to knock ones head into a wall. then let it be.
There are smart way to go around it. there is the stupid way. goes figure his choice.
I believe he want the attention. like the other GG objective are likely Donations also.
Guys knock it off la
We are here to share our view and opinion
If differ then drop the subject and agree to disagree
Each of us are unique and we also know that it is impossible to force our view and opinion on one another
:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
What to expect from this gay?
He just can't control his temper.
why bring his sexual orientation into the discussion?
u means gays just cannot control their temper.
does ST publish the money flow from cpf to mas, gic, th and back to cpf in order to rebut Roy's flow chart?
and money flow from land sales to reserves to hdb etc.
perhaps by doing so, they can educate the public
Guys knock it off la
We are here to share our view and opinion
If differ then drop the subject and agree to disagree
Each of us are unique and we also know that it is impossible to force our view and opinion on one another
:cheers1::cheers1::cheers1:
never hear of conversion by the sword?
why bring his sexual orientation into the discussion?
u means gays just cannot control their temper.
does ST publish the money flow from cpf to mas, gic, th and back to cpf in order to rebut Roy's flow chart?
and money flow from land sales to reserves to hdb etc.
perhaps by doing so, they can educate the public
Maybe his/her pent up frustration to release is clouding his/her temper? Maybe. Since we are all speculating here.
never hear of conversion by the sword?
thought the Thread Starter put the heading of this thread just for laugh ?
So end of the day we all just laugh it off
no need to force into each other
so be humorous la
Relax
minority, You still trying to twist and turn that "KNN" means mean "Know Nothing NUT" as an aftermath to cover up after you have been confronted with hurling vulgarity?
Please do a Google Search and see what is the standard definition the abbreviation "KNN" is used in Singapore. It is obvious that when you use the abbreviation, you are referring to the commonly used term that most Singaporean know and and as defined in those webpages that you can find using Google.
So, You have NO NUT means NO NUT since you don't even dare to stand behind what you said and meant!
minority, you have NO NUT! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
u have no NUT to accept that you have a DIRTY Mind? Common Stand up to it and admit that you have a dirty mind! Stand up like the spider you so admire then! where is Ur NUT!!!!
Becoze u ask me to give u I must?Who are u! Why do it this way u give out ur IC no. and bank acct no. we DONAT $ to u for your medical care. U ARE A NUT CASE!
KNN is vulgar? I told you its mean Know Nothing NUT!. U want to read it as vulgar is because you have a Dirty BRAIN To start with.
COME ! I challenge u!
YES I REPEAT U TALK COCK... and incase u don't understand what COCK means. let me help u wiki it.
cock1
kɒk/Submit
noun
1.
BRITISH
a male bird, especially of a domestic fowl.
synonyms: rooster, cockerel, male fowl, capon; More
minority, You still trying to twist and turn that "KNN" means mean "Know Nothing NUT" as an aftermath to cover up after you have been confronted with hurling vulgarity?
Please do a Google Search and see what is the standard definition the abbreviation "KNN" is used in Singapore. It is obvious that when you use the abbreviation, you are referring to the commonly used term that most Singaporean know and and as defined in those webpages that you can find using Google.
So, You have NO NUT means NO NUT since you don't even dare to stand behind what you said and meant!
minority, you have NO NUT! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
u can assume all u want. Coz u have a Dirty mind? common! what make u assume its vulgar ? Cover up? u cannot accept a fact and u want to twist n turn. U prata flipping behaviour.
Come show some NUT to admit you have a dirty mind!
why teddy n minority like to argue so much har?? dont understand.
its like online everitt road..
:D
why teddy n minority like to argue so much har?? dont understand.
its like online everitt road..
:D
eight words cannot match ? :doh::doh:
minority, You still trying to twist and turn that "KNN" means mean "Know Nothing NUT" as an aftermath to cover up after you have been confronted with hurling vulgarity?
Please do a Google Search and see what is the standard definition the abbreviation "KNN" is used in Singapore. It is obvious that when you use the abbreviation, you are referring to the commonly used term that most Singaporean know and and as defined in those webpages that you can find using Google.
So, You have NO NUT means NO NUT since you don't even dare to stand behind what you said and meant!
minority, you have NO NUT! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me help you with ur amateurish google and selective eye sight.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
KNN may refer to:
k-nearest neighbor algorithm, a method for classifying objects
Kabataan News Network, a Philippine television show made by teens
Khanna railway station (Indian Railways code), in Khanna, India
Kings Norton railway station (England; National Rail code), in Birmingham, England
Konkani language (ISO 639-3 language code), spoken in the Konkan coast of India
Korea New Network, broadcast television in South Korea
Kurdish News Network, news television form Iraqi Kurdistan
Kankan Airport, Guinea (by IATA code)
minority, trying to twist and turn again?
You living in Philippine or India that is why you want to use those definition? And do they make sense if you plug those definition into what you said:
KNN again talk cock.
Since you really have NO NUT to admit that you are using Singapore slang and Singlish definition of "KNN" for the fact that you are living in Singapore, what can we say? :moon:
Let me help you with ur amateurish google and selective eye sight.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
KNN may refer to:
k-nearest neighbor algorithm, a method for classifying objects
Kabataan News Network, a Philippine television show made by teens
Khanna railway station (Indian Railways code), in Khanna, India
Kings Norton railway station (England; National Rail code), in Birmingham, England
Konkani language (ISO 639-3 language code), spoken in the Konkan coast of India
Korea New Network, broadcast television in South Korea
Kurdish News Network, news television form Iraqi Kurdistan
Kankan Airport, Guinea (by IATA code)
KNN again talk cock. since u can afford why are u clogging up the C ward! let the people who need !!!
another case of talk cock.
minority, trying to twist and turn again?
You living in Philippine or India that is why you want to use those definition? And do they make sense if you plug those definition into what you said:
Since you really have NO NUT to admit that you are using Singapore slang and Singlish definition of "KNN" for the fact that you are living in Singapore, what can we say? :moon:
Why u Racist? what are u implying? Xenophobic Nutless ah gong.
Well u have a Dirty mind don't impose your view on me.
btw where is your favourite spider NUT?
singapore-stories/story/blogger-roy-ngerng-takes-down-blog-post-about-pm-lee-201
u like him also no nut?
YOUR CPF: The Complete Truth And Nothing But The Truth
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/20/your-cpf-the-complete-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth/ (http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/20/your-cpf-the-complete-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth/)
seems that the blogger is still going strong... today got new posting :D
come on guys... please dun quarrel over knn... no award for whoever win the argument over knn lah :D:D:D
YOUR CPF: The Complete Truth And Nothing But The Truth
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/20/your-cpf-the-complete-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth/ (http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/20/your-cpf-the-complete-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth/)
seems that the blogger is still going strong... today got new posting :D
come on guys... please dun quarrel over knn... no award for whoever win the argument over knn lah :D:D:D
u have to be careful when u use the KNN hor.. some dirty minded person say u use vulgar language on them. like school boy run to teacher cry father cry mother. ;)
minority, trying to twist and turn again?
You living in Philippine or India that is why you want to use those definition? And do they make sense if you plug those definition into what you said:
Since you really have NO NUT to admit that you are using Singapore slang and Singlish definition of "KNN" for the fact that you are living in Singapore, what can we say? :moon:
u Are so funny so stay singapore must be singapore slang? OK Let me give you another. U Should just FO Nutless ah gong. !!!!! pls poll me to explain what it mean to u. Or ur Dirty mind is seeing something else because you have a Dirty mind?
Almost everyone here who knows the history of this argument knows that YOU HAVE NO NUT! Simple as that, no need to argue anymore............................ :rolleyes:
u Are so funny so stay singapore must be singapore slang? OK Let me give you another. U Should just FO Nutless ah gong. !!!!! pls poll me to explain what it mean to u. Or ur Dirty mind is seeing something else because you have a Dirty mind?
Almost everyone here who knows the history of this argument knows that YOU HAVE NO NUT! Simple as that, no need to argue anymore............................ :rolleyes:
u even know what history is???? or u mean ur NUT is History?
LOL!!! NUT? Do u even know what a NUT is? Have u seen 1? Opss.. u dont even have 1?
Make Love Not War, I have no NUT. Anyone else have no NUT.
YOUR CPF: The Complete Truth And Nothing But The Truth
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/20/your-cpf-the-complete-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth/ (http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/20/your-cpf-the-complete-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth/)
seems that the blogger is still going strong... today got new posting :D
come on guys... please dun quarrel over knn... no award for whoever win the argument over knn lah :D:D:D
This guys is a Nut bag. I hope he get sue till he concuss.
he apologises liao ! :D
http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/blogger-roy-ngerng-apologises-pm-lee
SINGAPORE — Blogger Roy Ngerng has responded to the letter of demand sent to him by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong over a defamatory article he wrote, saying he “unreservedly apologises”.
But the 33-year-old healthcare worker asked if damages sought against him can be dropped, and also claimed that legal costs cannot be demanded of him at this stage of the legal process.
Mr Ngerng also asked to have an “open dialogue” with Mr Lee on the issue of the Central Provident Fund, “so that the transactions involving the CPF will be transparent to ordinary Singaporeans”.
The letter of demand arose from a May 15 article in which Mr Ngerng accused Mr Lee of misappropriating CPF monies.
He was given a two-day extension till 5pm today by Mr Lee to meet certain demands, including the removal of the offending article, an apology that is to be posted on his blog for as long as the article was put up, and an offer of damages.
Mr Ngerng said he will be posting the apology on his blog tonight.
he should not have mentioned names.
he should have said stat boards, ministries like cpf, mas, etc is misappropriating money.
http://www.edvantage.com.sg/content/blogger-seeks-ruling-stat-board-cant-sue-defamation
learn to use PAP dictionary
thunder loud loud rain small small...
but kena sued leow then ask for dialog seems familiar... who use this trick before?
he apologises liao ! :D
http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/blogger-roy-ngerng-apologises-pm-lee
SINGAPORE — Blogger Roy Ngerng has responded to the letter of demand sent to him by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong over a defamatory article he wrote, saying he “unreservedly apologises”.
But the 33-year-old healthcare worker asked if damages sought against him can be dropped, and also claimed that legal costs cannot be demanded of him at this stage of the legal process.
Mr Ngerng also asked to have an “open dialogue” with Mr Lee on the issue of the Central Provident Fund, “so that the transactions involving the CPF will be transparent to ordinary Singaporeans”.
The letter of demand arose from a May 15 article in which Mr Ngerng accused Mr Lee of misappropriating CPF monies.
He was given a two-day extension till 5pm today by Mr Lee to meet certain demands, including the removal of the offending article, an apology that is to be posted on his blog for as long as the article was put up, and an offer of damages.
Mr Ngerng said he will be posting the apology on his blog tonight.
Why he never stand by what he say? u mean its not truthfully factual? LOL!
looks like he is the the seedless variety of grapes.
thunder loud loud rain small small...
but kena sued leow then ask for dialog seems familiar... who use this trick before?
mean time can make some $$ from donations.! and advertisement revenue to his site! HUAT AH!
he also like city harvest what asking for donations can can pay direct to his acct. All he need is a online payment gateway.. kerching kerching.
why only LHL sue?
how come HC of TH and Tharman of MAS dont sue?
later people think HC and Tharman misappropiate CPF funds instead of LHL,
or LHL's skin is thinner than HC's, which is a real possibility.
Like you, NO NUT to admit what you said! :beats-me-man:
Why he never stand by what he say? u mean its not truthfully factual? LOL!
looks like he is the the seedless variety of grapes.
Like you, NO NUT to admit what you said! :beats-me-man:
U mean like U a one COCK eye village clown.
he apologises liao ! :D
http://www.todayonline.com/singapore/blogger-roy-ngerng-apologises-pm-lee
SINGAPORE — Blogger Roy Ngerng has responded to the letter of demand sent to him by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong over a defamatory article he wrote, saying he “unreservedly apologises”.
But the 33-year-old healthcare worker asked if damages sought against him can be dropped, and also claimed that legal costs cannot be demanded of him at this stage of the legal process.
Mr Ngerng also asked to have an “open dialogue” with Mr Lee on the issue of the Central Provident Fund, “so that the transactions involving the CPF will be transparent to ordinary Singaporeans”.
The letter of demand arose from a May 15 article in which Mr Ngerng accused Mr Lee of misappropriating CPF monies.
He was given a two-day extension till 5pm today by Mr Lee to meet certain demands, including the removal of the offending article, an apology that is to be posted on his blog for as long as the article was put up, and an offer of damages.
Mr Ngerng said he will be posting the apology on his blog tonight.
Its a wise thing to do
Yes you may have written 400 articles
Just one will caused your downfall
Hope you have learned the lesson
In fact I enjoyed reading
Hope you can continue writing and make it to 800
Cheers :cheers1::cheers1:
Oh gosh
May 26, 2014
Lee Hsien Loong’s New Request To Take Down 4 More Articles And 1 Video
The Singapore prime minister had sent me new requests this morning to take down 4 articles and 1 video today.
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/26/lee-hsien-loongs-new-request-to-take-down-4-more-articles-and-1-video/
This guy should be just sued. he is not sincere to apologise anyway. get on with it. frankly.
Think many are eagerly waiting for more details about CPF management.... :beats-me-man:
Oh gosh
May 26, 2014
Lee Hsien Loong’s New Request To Take Down 4 More Articles And 1 Video
The Singapore prime minister had sent me new requests this morning to take down 4 articles and 1 video today.
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/26/lee-hsien-loongs-new-request-to-take-down-4-more-articles-and-1-video/
Oh gosh oh gosh
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/28/i-will-continue-to-speak-up-on-singaporeans-cpf-to-protect-us/
David vs Goliath ?
Freedom of Speech do not include freedom to defame. He can always talk about CPF but not defame.
This seem to be this guy problem. The cannot understand or just have malicious intent. Actually he is a coward trying to use public opinion to hide his original intent to defame.
Oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh
Please stop all these
It is all so embarrassing and sad that these are to happen
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/30/update-30052014-fund-raising-for-roy-ngerngs-court-case-against-lee-hsien-loong/
Oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh
Please stop all these
It is all so embarrassing and sad that these are to happen
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/05/30/update-30052014-fund-raising-for-roy-ngerngs-court-case-against-lee-hsien-loong/
SAD? I am SAD got stupid people get bluff by this joker. Its SAD people cannot see pass the farce this guy is putting up. The Money go to a needy more is more worth it. Even throw into the dustbin also more worth it.
Frankly is this donation even real maybe he donate to himself to create some his own truth.
SAD? I am SAD got stupid people get bluff by this joker. Its SAD people cannot see pass the farce this guy is putting up. The Money go to a needy more is more worth it. Even throw into the dustbin also more worth it.
Frankly is this donation even real maybe he donate to himself to create some his own truth.
Its about the process
Since then the situation has come down to not about Roy
Its now about Roy and certain segment of the public
Btw if you want to throw money into dustbin, please let me know where and when :cheers1::cheers1:
I do not mind being a rubbish collector for that day :D
Its about the process
Since then the situation has come down to not about Roy
Its now about Roy and certain segment of the public
Btw if you want to throw money into dustbin, please let me know where and when :cheers1::cheers1:
I do not mind being a rubbish collector for that day :D
Really?
Hah hah.. I think I decided flushing done the toilet is more green and efficient.
Really?
Hah hah.. I think I decided flushing done the toilet is more green and efficient.
you sure
flushing money down the toilet ? :doh:
Oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh
why so many Singaporean so siao (mad)
donating to this ?
$72,000 raised
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/06/02/update-four-02062014-fund-raising-for-roy-ngerngs-court-case-against-lee-hsien-loong/
They should all be flushed down the toilet
all 72k of it :mad::scared-1:
Oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh
why so many Singaporean so siao (mad)
donating to this ?
$72,000 raised
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/06/02/update-four-02062014-fund-raising-for-roy-ngerngs-court-case-against-lee-hsien-loong/
They should all be flushed down the toilet
all 72k of it :mad::scared-1:
sit back watch show :D
In the Paypal section,
he is right to leave unclaimed the foreign currencies, EUR or AUD, but there is 1 transaction where he completed a US$12.34. he should refund that US$12.34.
No foreign influence please
he is transparent about donations show as to LEAD by example.
CPF, GIC, TH damn bloody opaque.
.....
why so many Singaporean so siao (mad)
donating to this ?
.....
a lot of people really want to know why cpf minimum sum increasing every year. and also why cannot withdraw all when they retire.
TH, GIC, MAS lose their CPF money is it?
Oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh
why so many Singaporean so siao (mad)
donating to this ?
$72,000 raised
http://thehearttruths.com/2014/06/02/update-four-02062014-fund-raising-for-roy-ngerngs-court-case-against-lee-hsien-loong/
They should all be flushed down the toilet
all 72k of it :mad::scared-1:
these people aren't crazy. they merely have a different value system and ascribed a higher value to the pursuit of truth than monetary assets.
i don't call people, who have different views from me, mad
these people aren't crazy. they merely have a different value system and ascribed a higher value to the pursuit of truth than monetary assets.
i don't call people, who have different views from me, mad
i dont understand. isnt the court case all about the amt of compensation for defamation? they are not going to talk about cpf in the court.
so what is this donation about?
i dont understand. isnt the court case all about the amt of compensation for defamation? they are not going to talk about cpf in the court.
so what is this donation about?
in this going to be a closed court session?
well, this roy will have the pulpit to talk about CPF even though out of topic. if the judge try to shut him up by citing contempt of court, more publicity, what has the judge/govt has to hide.
in this going to be a closed court session?
well, this roy will have the pulpit to talk about CPF even though out of topic. if the judge try to shut him up by citing contempt of court, more publicity, what has the judge/govt has to hide.
open or closed court i dunno, but court got procedure to follow one ma... how can suka suka say this say that..
these people aren't crazy. they merely have a different value system and ascribed a higher value to the pursuit of truth than monetary assets.
i don't call people, who have different views from me, mad
Hi eng81157
apologize and say sorry
but if you can see through my sarcasm then have a good laugh
cheers :cool::cool:
i dont understand. isnt the court case all about the amt of compensation for defamation? they are not going to talk about cpf in the court.
so what is this donation about?
do u merely think that it's about the compensation or defamation? if all the blogger wants is to be a lightning rod for something bigger, then he has achieved his aim. hope you watched hunger games 2.
apart from the legal discourse, i think there are loads of implications that can be drawn from the saga - david vs goliath, commoner vs ruling elite, meek vs bully, mocking jay vs cruel ruler, etc etc.
do u merely think that it's about the compensation or defamation? if all the blogger wants is to be a lightning rod for something bigger, then he has achieved his aim. hope you watched hunger games 2.
apart from the legal discourse, i think there are loads of implications that can be drawn from the saga - david vs goliath, commoner vs ruling elite, meek vs bully, mocking jay vs cruel ruler, etc etc.
to me it's a very straight forward defamation case. the ministers already said so many times until juice come out leow.. 'u can say i stupid but cannot say i eat money!!!'
this guy does not act alone, he has got the support of a community. i seriously dont think that all he want is the truth about cpf.
condoviewer
03-06-14, 18:49
this guy does not act alone, he has got the support of a community. i seriously dont think that all he want is the truth about cpf.
He is a perfect pawn as he loves the limelight and attention.
Tis guy is an opportunistic attention seeker.
He got sued for alleging PM stealing money. It is so easy to fan emotion with " give my CPF money back !"
"truth about CPF " is very simple. The other thread summarizes it nicely.
And how GIC, TH invest is completely none of your business. You engage a fund manager, the fund manager has his freedom to act professionally. they are accountable to the one engaging them, here the Gov, not any man on the street. You want any investment to have a referendum first ??! If GIC or TH has profoundly failed over the years, we have grounds to complain. Here ppl are merely jealous : why GIC or TH make 10% but I get 2.5% only ?
Allthepies
03-06-14, 20:46
why so many Singaporean so siao (mad)
if no siao peoplè how the other people can make money? But hope not too many siao singaporeans in singapore or else they will drag down singapore....
Allthepies
03-06-14, 20:51
do u merely think that it's about the compensation or defamation? if all the blogger wants is to be a lightning rod for something bigger, then he has achieved his aim. hope you watched hunger games 2.
apart from the legal discourse, i think there are loads of implications that can be drawn from the saga - david vs goliath, commoner vs ruling elite, meek vs bully, mocking jay vs cruel ruler, etc etc.
or dumb people with lots of free time vs good government,
traitor vs home protector, free loader vs hardworking government, havoc creator vs peace keeper etc
Allthepies
03-06-14, 20:57
Tis guy is an opportunistic attention seeker.
He got sued for alleging PM stealing money. It is so easy to fan emotion with " give my CPF money back !"
"truth about CPF " is very simple. The other thread summarizes it nicely.
And how GIC, TH invest is completely none of your business. You engage a fund manager, the fund manager has his freedom to act professionally. they are accountable to the one engaging them, here the Gov, not any man on the street. You want any investment to have a referendum first ??! If GIC or TH has profoundly failed over the years, we have grounds to complain. Here ppl are merely jealous : why GIC or TH make 10% but I get 2.5% only ?
nicely said
....If GIC or TH has profoundly failed over the years, we have grounds to complain. Here ppl are merely jealous : why GIC or TH make 10% but I get 2.5% only ?
1) how can we know GIC/TH has not failed over the years? isn't that why minimum sum is increasing and later withdrawals?
2)and if GIC/TH has trumpeted their superior returns over the years, then CPF board investing directly to GIC/TH would be safe.
are we paying too much premium for a risk free return of 2.5% as compared to a variable returns of a few % points under/over 10%, maybe 6-14% ?
Yes, a dafamation case. But this is defamation concerning CPF, so I suppose many people think that obviously the court case (or the defense lawyer) will have to dig deep into things about and around CPF, so a lot about CPF have to come to light otherwise how to prove that what he said about CPF is "defamation"? I suppose that is why so many people funded him for the court case? If no court case then nothing in details about CPF will come to light? :beats-me-man:
to me it's a very straight forward defamation case. the ministers already said so many times until juice come out leow.. 'u can say i stupid but cannot say i eat money!!!'
this guy does not act alone, he has got the support of a community. i seriously dont think that all he want is the truth about cpf.
Allthepies
03-06-14, 21:05
1) how can we know GIC/TH has not failed over the years? isn't that why minimum sum is increasing and later withdrawals?
2)and if GIC/TH has trumpeted their superior returns over the years, then CPF board investing directly to GIC/TH would be safe.
are we paying too much premium for a risk free return of 2.5% as compared to a variable returns of a few % points under/over 10%, maybe 6-14% ?
it much higher than the less risk free bank saving rate of 0.05% - 1%... anyone dare to ask the banks why they give so low returns and wat they doing with our money?
I doubt anyone will dare defame the banks because they will make sure you go bankrupt and go to jail : )
it much higher than the less risk free bank saving rate of 0.05% - 1%... anyone dare to ask the banks why they give so low returns and wat they doing with our money?
I doubt anyone will dare defame the banks because they will make sure you go bankrupt and go to jail : )
why compare with banks?
what is difference between banks and cpf? - i can withdraw all my money :)
why compare with banks?
what is difference between banks and cpf? - i can withdraw all my money :)
You Like this Bank ?
I do :ashamed1:
http://www.ocbc.com/personal-banking/Accounts/360-account.html?utm_source=branch_merchandising&utm_medium=branch&utm_campaign=360account
it much higher than the less risk free bank saving rate of 0.05% - 1%... anyone dare to ask the banks why they give so low returns and wat they doing with our money?
I doubt anyone will dare defame the banks because they will make sure you go bankrupt and go to jail : )
Hope CPF can also issue Credit Card like Banks
to do supermarket groceries shopping
say 10% ~ 15% from monthly contributions :ashamed1:
at least for the not so well to do, their basic needs are being met
so less kpkb
1) how can we know GIC/TH has not failed over the years? isn't that why minimum sum is increasing and later withdrawals?
this "minimum sum has to increase because GIC made big losses" is total nonsense.
The return of GIC and TH was published. You just choose not to believe it. ( well I know YOU believe it, but as sh** stirrer nature you like to poke, am I right ?:cool: )
I have direct dealing with these entities. these are professionally ran entities and there is nothing fishy about it.
The usual argument has always been : I want to see the details to prove it, telling me it makes x% return is not enough. Well who are you ? GIC does not report to you. It reports to the gov. Fact of life is, only the boss knows the real numbers. Average joes, look at your passport: it is accepted almost everywhere, this is not by accident. Or you can look at SG gov bonds, what market is willing to lend, to see if the gov is bluffing about its reserves or not.
Tis guy is an opportunistic attention seeker.
He got sued for alleging PM stealing money. It is so easy to fan emotion with " give my CPF money back !"
"truth about CPF " is very simple. The other thread summarizes it nicely.
And how GIC, TH invest is completely none of your business. You engage a fund manager, the fund manager has his freedom to act professionally. they are accountable to the one engaging them, here the Gov, not any man on the street. You want any investment to have a referendum first ??! If GIC or TH has profoundly failed over the years, we have grounds to complain. Here ppl are merely jealous : why GIC or TH make 10% but I get 2.5% only ?
I would like to know lei afterall its my money
also like to know why only 2.5% and that does not mean I am jealous la
actually hor don't care because have met my MS and its only 200k
but when it ballooned to 500k... think will also join in and kpkb :ashamed1::ashamed1:
You can't compare with banks.
You have a choice whether you want to deposit your money with the banks, and you can withdraw any time.
The same is not true with CPF. Since you can't touch CPF money for >30-40 years, it is then expected that the rate of return is equivalent to 30-40 years bond, which obviously will have to be much higher than 2.5% then. :tsk-tsk:
it much higher than the less risk free bank saving rate of 0.05% - 1%... anyone dare to ask the banks why they give so low returns and wat they doing with our money?
I doubt anyone will dare defame the banks because they will make sure you go bankrupt and go to jail : )
You buy into a fund, does the fund tell you exactly what it does with yr money ?
2.5 too low or not, that is indeed arguable. There can be a meaningful discussion on what rate of return gov must write into law. You cannot compare it totally as 30y bond, because you can use yr CPF fund anytime to buy house, shares and funds. The liquidity is not guaranteed.
If CPF pays 10% p.a., I doubt anybody cares how much GIC and TH make.......... :p
this "minimum sum has to increase because GIC made big losses" is total nonsense.
The return of GIC and TH was published. You just choose not to believe it. ( well I know YOU believe it, but as sh** stirrer nature you like to poke, am I right ?:cool: )
I have direct dealing with these entities. these are professionally ran entities and there is nothing fishy about it.
The usual argument has always been : I want to see the details to prove it, telling me it makes x% return is not enough. Well who are you ? GIC does not report to you. It reports to the gov. Fact of life is, only the boss knows the real numbers. Average joes, look at your passport: it is accepted almost everywhere, this is not by accident. Or you can look at SG gov bonds, what market is willing to lend, to see if the gov is bluffing about its reserves or not.
If I buy into a fund, I need to be happy with the return. So If they can't give me good return, then I don't buy into that fund, I invest in others. Similarly for CPF, if people got the choice, but the problem people don't have, and forced to accept miserable 2.5% return for past 10+ years...... :p
No, you can't use CPF SA and medisave account to buy house, and buy any investment you like. You can't even use medisave for anything else except medical fees, and even then there are so many restrictions and caps. And how much interest rate you get for the medisave of min amount $45k?
Even with CPF OA, there are too much restrictions on what you can invest with it.
Given the fact that the CPF money has been locked up for such a long period and so much restriction have been imposed, it is just like buying 30-40 years bond. If you say you can't compare to bonds, why then is CPF interest rate to be paid now pegged to 10-year bond? It just gives us impression that even the govt themselves treat the CPF money like bonds! :beats-me-man:
You buy into a fund, does the fund tell you exactly what it does with yr money ?
2.5 too low or not, that is indeed arguable. There can be a meaningful discussion on what rate of return gov must write into law. You cannot compare it totally as 30y bond, because you can use yr CPF fund anytime to buy house, shares and funds. The liquidity is not guaranteed.
If CPF pays 10% p.a., I doubt anybody cares how much GIC and TH make.......... :p
Can try these bank, almost 10%.
http://www.allbankingsolutions.com/DEPSUB1.htm
My Indian colleague transfer SGD 100,000 to India and very happy.
this "minimum sum has to increase because GIC made big losses" is total nonsense.
The return of GIC and TH was published. You just choose not to believe it. ( well I know YOU believe it, but as sh** stirrer nature you like to poke, am I right ?:cool: )
I have direct dealing with these entities. these are professionally ran entities and there is nothing fishy about it.
The usual argument has always been : I want to see the details to prove it, telling me it makes x% return is not enough. Well who are you ? GIC does not report to you. It reports to the gov. Fact of life is, only the boss knows the real numbers. Average joes, look at your passport: it is accepted almost everywhere, this is not by accident. Or you can look at SG gov bonds, what market is willing to lend, to see if the gov is bluffing about its reserves or not.
are GIC and TH returns real or not?
if returns are false, then it is risky for CPF to invest in GIC/TH, better to invest in 2.5% bonds.
if returns are true, then it is not risky for CPF to invest in GIC/TH, better to invest in variable 6-14% returns rather than 2.5% fixed. "Bad" year get 6%, good year 14%.
which is which? are GIC and TH returns real or not?
the government is having their cake (get high real GIC/TH returns) and eat it too (pay low CPF rates). can that be described as jealousy by the common folks for wanting higher rates?
the lay people only know 2 things
1) minimum sum is increasing year by year.
2) cannot withdraw the money in its entirety.
this is "proof" enough for them that GIC/TH is losing their CPF money.
The ministers can show all the figures in the world, audited accounts, quote SG bonds yield, the strength of the reserves etc etc etc, but the "proof" in the pudding for the people is the 2 points above that show that GIC, TH is losing their hard-earned CPF money.
and are visa-free travel and high CPF rate goes mutually exclusive?
cannot have visa-free travel and high CPF rates meh?
btw, the average joes dont travel around the world, at most JB and Batam.
it is convenient for the singapore elite to travel to europe/america on a whim using visa-free pasport, but does the average joe travel to europe/america on a whim? no. they booked their travel way in advance, whereby has time to arrange for visa.
so visa-free travel is a little bit nice to have, but not that essential until we have to settle for 2.5% CPF rate just to get that visa-free passport :)
I dont know about anybody else, but i would prefer 6% (if bad year) on my CPF and arrange for visa rather than 2.5% and visa-free travel.
Wah, 1 year FD 9.75%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :scared-1:
Just give an example how significant 2.5% p.a. and 10% means to any person:
1) If you get 2.5% p.a. on your CPF money, it takes 28.8 years to double your money.
2) If you get 10% p.a. on your capital, it only takes 7.2 years to double your money!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, the solution to many people not having enough to retire despite hitting min sum of $155k and another $45k in medisave is to get higher returns! Imagine, if a person has $200k at age 55 years old and get a 10% p.a. return, he would have $400k at age of 62.2 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't need to raise CPF min sum and medisave min sum anymore! :p
Can try these bank, almost 10%.
http://www.allbankingsolutions.com/DEPSUB1.htm
My Indian colleague transfer SGD 100,000 to India and very happy.
You buy into a fund, does the fund tell you exactly what it does with yr money ?
2.5 too low or not, that is indeed arguable. There can be a meaningful discussion on what rate of return gov must write into law. You cannot compare it totally as 30y bond, because you can use yr CPF fund anytime to buy house, shares and funds. The liquidity is not guaranteed.
a quick question:
if i have a 30 year bond, can i pledge my bond to a bank to borrow money?
if I can pledge a 30 year bond to borrow money, then it is "comparable" to CPF.
disclosure: i m not a bond man.
......
No, you can't use CPF SA and medisave account to buy house, and buy any investment you like. You can't even use medisave for anything else except medical fees, and even then there are so many restrictions and caps. And how much interest rate you get for the medisave of min amount $45k?
Even with CPF OA, there are too much restrictions on what you can invest with it. ......
you can buy only immovable objects (like house) and paper instruments (like shares, funds).
that means you cannot buy physical gold, because if you can buy physical gold with CPF and take possession of the physical gold, you can potentially move your money out of CPF.
CPF money have to be circulated within the system.
btw, when you buy shares with CPF, can you ask for the physical share certificates?
If CPF pays 10% p.a., I doubt anybody cares how much GIC and TH make.......... :p
tallk cock lah. people like you will never be satisfied. if its 10% u will KPKB why not 20%. :doh::doh::doh:
Tis guy is an opportunistic attention seeker.
He got sued for alleging PM stealing money. It is so easy to fan emotion with " give my CPF money back !"
"truth about CPF " is very simple. The other thread summarizes it nicely.
And how GIC, TH invest is completely none of your business. You engage a fund manager, the fund manager has his freedom to act professionally. they are accountable to the one engaging them, here the Gov, not any man on the street. You want any investment to have a referendum first ??! If GIC or TH has profoundly failed over the years, we have grounds to complain. Here ppl are merely jealous : why GIC or TH make 10% but I get 2.5% only ?
so in a bad year GIC lost some $ in their investment. the people will get jealous a not? or KPKB why their CPF return is -ve? People want gain cannot accept lost . now people want high gain can they accept high lost?
a quick question:
if i have a 30 year bond, can i pledge my bond to a bank to borrow money?
depends on the liquidity, issuer, and willingness of the bank, can be a no or yes with a haircut. No it is most definitely not comparable.
and the average joe buys an insurance policy because it has a free gift ! :rolleyes:
after CPF IS scheme was introduced to address ppl complaints ("why pay 2.5% so little"), ok you do it yourself. Result: most of the CPF IS account made loss, and those who did not, managed lower yields than 2.5% ! (I did make better because I placed it myself on a fix income fund and that only yields 4% over all these years!).
So now ppl realize doing it yourself is not so great, let's ask the gov deliver me high yield directly instead ! How hypocritic can you get ? (These are the well off group, who is really treating this as funding opportunities).
And for those who do not even have 50-75k in CPF at retirement, let's face it: it makes no difference to you anyway. you are not going to retire nicely in this SG system. You cannot even enjoy a moment of luxury ("why can't I take out all?"). Sad, but this is what it is. (If not, let say after you enjoy the 70k luxury for a while, then what next ? Gov's problem ?) It is a bit cruel the SG system is eventually you fend for yourself, but I think I prefer a system where you are responsible for your own self.
All these higher yield discussion is really more for the well off. For this group, are you really not aware that, no thanks to all the central banks, low rate is going to last a long time ? You know US 30y is only 3.#% and SA is paying 4%. SG 10y can only get 1.#%. If not because of the HDB loan, CPF already has a hard time paying 2.5%. Sure let TH/GIC do it directly and get good yields (yea hopeful that's your obsession on HC), but even me I will not want that risk. For these 150k, let it do 2.5-4% riskless is fine.
so in a bad year GIC lost some $ in their investment...
there is also something else. many of GIC/TH investments are controversial, you need guts, wisdom, business acumen, etc to do something that many ppl on the street do not understand. for example, we made some from the Glencore deal, but do you know this firm was founded by a "technically-criminal" oil trader who fled US ? Can you imagine how ppl on the street will react if they are asked to "consult" before making an investment ?
... and not to mention many investments not for commercial reasons. this world is never fair, even at country level. :rolleyes:
depends on the liquidity, issuer, and willingness of the bank, can be a no or yes with a haircut. No it is most definitely not comparable.
.
Pun Pee Pee...:cheers2: so well say
For the less well off group, maybe the gov should increase 1 more % of GST since the rich spend more .. then channel this extra 1% to the less well off CPF account.. :D Of course it is easy to say than done.. people will be shouting not fair....:p but boh pian, all of us here are preaching to help the less well off folks...
but boh pian, all of us here are preaching to help the less well off folks...
A proportion of preachers are just kelong so to speak.
Black also can preach until white.
......
after CPF IS scheme was introduced to address ppl complaints ("why pay 2.5% so little"), ok you do it yourself. Result: most of the CPF IS account made loss, and those who did not, managed lower yields than 2.5% ! (I did make better because I placed it myself on a fix income fund and that only yields 4% over all these years!).
So now ppl realize doing it yourself is not so great, let's ask the gov deliver me high yield directly instead ! How hypocritic can you get ? (These are the well off group, who is really treating this as funding opportunities).
And for those who do not even have 50-75k in CPF at retirement, let's face it: it makes no difference to you anyway. you are not going to retire nicely in this SG system. You cannot even enjoy a moment of luxury ("why can't I take out all?"). Sad, but this is what it is. (If not, let say after you enjoy the 70k luxury for a while, then what next ? Gov's problem ?) It is a bit cruel the SG system is eventually you fend for yourself, but I think I prefer a system where you are responsible for your own self.
All these higher yield discussion is really more for the well off. For this group, are you really not aware that, no thanks to all the central banks, low rate is going to last a long time ? You know US 30y is only 3.#% and SA is paying 4%. SG 10y can only get 1.#%. If not because of the HDB loan, CPF already has a hard time paying 2.5%. Sure let TH/GIC do it directly and get good yields (yea hopeful that's your obsession on HC), but even me I will not want that risk. For these 150k, let it do 2.5-4% riskless is fine.
amk, thanks for sharing. if an full time finance professional like yourself manage to eke out a miserly 4% returns, what chance does the ordinary man on the street have? Nada. So is it any wonder why majority of people lose money under CPF-IS?
and why does people not have 50k-75k in CPF? Perhaps to be blame are not the people, but the low rates itself.
At 2.5% rate, the money barely have time to double before it is time to retire at 55.
At a conservative 10% return by TH, the money double every 7 years. after working for 30years, the CPF money u received from your first pay check would be 16x the amount. If your 1st year CPF is $3000, then 30 years later, it is $48000 :)
if CPF rates are high, it would be much easier for people to meet the minimum sum and what not.
using above example, the 1st 4 years of CPF contributions will be more than enough to cover the minimum sum. (48k + ~44k + ~40k + ~36k > 155k)
Investing in GIC and TH are so risk free. On a bad day, yeah 6%, on a really really bad day, maybe 4%. But why worry about a few bad years of 4% right? As our esteemed HC has said, investments are for the long term. So i think a span of 30 years of CPF contributions should be long term enough and 100% double confirmed make money. TH make annualised returns of 16% over 30 years, imagine that.
www.temasekreview.com.sg/#portfolio-totalShareholderReturn
Putting money in TH is really a no-brainer decision.
.......we made some from the Glencore deal, but do you know this firm was founded by a "technically-criminal" oil trader who fled US ? Can you imagine how ppl on the street will react if they are asked to "consult" before making an investment ? .....
Thank you once again for affirming my belief in the superior investing capability of GIC/TH. My faith in the 2 is not misplaced, especially my faith in HC :)
and why do you keep on asking how ppl on the street will react or take a referendum before GIC, TH invest. That is as irrelevant to the common folks as visa-free passport. Important things to the common folks is 10% returns.
The only referendum needed is for people to vote for CPF to be invested in TH instead of SGS,SGSS.
poor GIC/TH, victims of their own success ;) until every tom, dick and harry want their CPF to be managed by them.
unless of course, only a certain harry knows their dirty secrets that GIC, TH actually lose money and that's why he prefer 2.5-4% SGS bonds :p
Pun Pee Pee...:cheers2: so well say
For the less well off group, maybe the gov should increase 1 more % of GST since the rich spend more .. then channel this extra 1% to the less well off CPF account.. :D Of course it is easy to say than done.. people will be shouting not fair....:p but boh pian, all of us here are preaching to help the less well off folks...
All the people here preaching to help the less well off. is talk only as long its not from thier pocket they scream must help must help. when it come to the real out of pocket experience. all KPKB cry wolf like going to slaughter them. KPKB how unfair Singapore have become and they want to go back to the pre rafflles era where land was free , and everything is worthless.
One example is CFP keep KPKB must have more interest. frankly when ask what abt risk? Then u get a reply what risk? RISK! not my dai Ji.
And frankly who benifit the most from high CPF interest rates? The Rich coz Rich have more income and that also translate to higher CPF amount.
So frankly its BS people say help the poor here. They are just hoping to help themselves.
All the people here preaching to help the less well off. is talk only as long its not from thier pocket they scream must help must help. when it come to the real out of pocket experience. all KPKB cry wolf like going to slaughter them. KPKB how unfair Singapore have become and they want to go back to the pre rafflles era where land was free , and everything is worthless.
One example is CFP keep KPKB must have more interest. frankly when ask what abt risk? Then u get a reply what risk? RISK! not my dai Ji.
And frankly who benifit the most from high CPF interest rates? The Rich coz Rich have more income and that also translate to higher CPF amount.
So frankly its BS people say help the poor here. They are just hoping to help themselves.
ah gong! :doh::doh::doh:
several ministers & MPs have also called for an increase to CPF rates. so these ministers & MPs are also KPKBing to help the rich?? :banghead::banghead:
obviously you don't even consider why the calls were made - of which is a different issue.
ok just for entertainment of hopeful, I have asked HC to entertain your obsession. Alright you can invest with TH, with these conditions:
1) capital not guaranteed. i.e. you can lose all, even when TH itself is making a profit. (what it is called, you are the equity tranche of a risky investment)
2) past return is not indication of future performance. you may get 20/10/0/-10/etc.
3) withdrawal is not guaranteed. at a cost to be determined by prevailing market condition at time of withdrawal.
but I was also scolded: "all the banks in the world are dying to lend money to me at <1% ! if I'm doing this to you, it's pure national service at my cost."
If gov writes into law CPF yield 5% or more, this is just really gov giving money to everyone. No need to plan for any investment yourself already. 5% risk free, how nice ! Financial freedom achieved ! Who needs financial planning ? :rolleyes:
(btw HDB loan is CPF+0.1, are you saying the vast majority of SG'eans will have to pay 5.1% for the HDB loan ?? :scared-5: )
look what I really want to see, is gov issuing ibonds, rather than upping the CPF rate.
this can silence a lot of ppl's complaints. (let's hope ppl dun complain "gov manipulating inflation numbers").
ever wonder why investment banks like GS, MS, JPM love our swf ie tem etc?
because our swf dish out to these blood suckers... our swf like broker... do they really trade ? hmmmm. their track records are ???
there no free lunches... so am very wary.... By the way, temasek call themselves a private entity hor... nothing related to govt .... so.... make yr judgment carefully. ...
;-)
ok just for entertainment of hopeful, I have asked HC to entertain your obsession. Alright you can invest with TH, with these conditions:
1) capital not guaranteed. i.e. you can lose all, even when TH itself is making a profit. (what it is called, you are the equity tranche of a risky investment)
2) past return is not indication of future performance. you may get 20/10/0/-10/etc.
3) withdrawal is not guaranteed. at a cost to be determined by prevailing market condition at time of withdrawal.
but I was also scolded: "all the banks in the world are dying to lend money to me at <1% ! if I'm doing this to you, it's pure national service at my cost."
1) are equity tranche returns higher is it? if TH returns 10%, i get 20%? but i cannot think of myself. other people CPF funds involved, so no need to get extra risk for extra returns. just conservative 10% returns will do.
2) we are looking for sustainable long-term returns. so what if 5year returns at TH sucks at 3%, look at all the other periods, so much higher than CPF. remember it is a 30 year period investment starting from 25 and ending at 55.
3) it is ok la. at conservative 10% annually, my CPF already go up by 16x after 30years. if market drop by 50% at time of FULL withdrawal, still go up by 8x. compared to steady pun-pee-pee only 2x after 30 years. :doh:
market have to drop 90% at time of withdrawal before sama-sama.
and if you dont make FULL withdrawal when market drop, then it is just unrealised paper loss, when market recover, can withdraw fully at ~15x.
where got <1%?
http://www.temasek.com.sg/investorrelations/temasekbonds
HC is such a sweet joker. She is no longer the stern dragon lady that i think she is. Her image grows in my heart :)
If gov writes into law CPF yield 5% or more, this is just really gov giving money to everyone. No need to plan for any investment yourself already. 5% risk free, how nice ! Financial freedom achieved ! Who needs financial planning ? :rolleyes:
(btw HDB loan is CPF+0.1, are you saying the vast majority of SG'eans will have to pay 5.1% for the HDB loan ?? :scared-5: )
look what I really want to see, is gov issuing ibonds, rather than upping the CPF rate.
this can silence a lot of ppl's complaints. (let's hope ppl dun complain "gov manipulating inflation numbers").
govt dont have to write into law, just invest CPF money into TH for a risk-free returns of 15% compounded annually over 30years.
do we really need to plan for investment ourself?
and how can lowly educated workers like cleaners do financial planning?
in fact people would just love to have higher mortgage for HDB loans. what happens when mortgage rates are high? why prices goes down, HDB becomes more affordable to the masses if they dont bring HDB prices down, how can a $1000pm salary afford a HDB at 5.1% mortgage. This will make Tharman a liar.
.......
One example is CFP keep KPKB must have more interest. frankly when ask what abt risk? Then u get a reply what risk? RISK! not my dai Ji.
And frankly who benifit the most from high CPF interest rates? The Rich coz Rich have more income and that also translate to higher CPF amount.
So frankly its BS people say help the poor here. They are just hoping to help themselves.
please study TH returns. tell me what risk is there?
do you know that cpf contribution is capped?
can a billionare put in $1mio per month into CPF?
how much he can put is subjected to a cap. and so his CPF is only a very small percentage of his wealth. so even at high CPF rates, the billionaire's wealth not be much affected.
eg.
billionaire have total wealth of $1billion and CPF of $1mio. govt give 10% rate which earns $100k.
100k out of 1 billion is 0.01%.
compared to the lowly cleaner.
cleaner has total wealth only $100k, and CPF of $30k. govt give 10% rate which earns 3k.
3k out of $100k is 3% of the cleaner's wealth.
so who benefits more from higher CPF rates? the billionaire or the cleaner?
so you dont want a cleaner to benefit from higher CPF rates because the billionaire would gain 0.01%. what a joke.:doh:
please study TH returns. tell me what risk is there?
do you know that cpf contribution is capped?
can a billionare put in $1mio per month into CPF?
how much he can put is subjected to a cap. and so his CPF is only a very small percentage of his wealth. so even at high CPF rates, the billionaire's wealth not be much affected.
eg.
billionaire have total wealth of $1billion and CPF of $1mio. govt give 10% rate which earns $100k.
100k out of 1 billion is 0.01%.
compared to the lowly cleaner.
cleaner has total wealth only $100k, and CPF of $30k. govt give 10% rate which earns 3k.
3k out of $100k is 3% of the cleaner's wealth.
so who benefits more from higher CPF rates? the billionaire or the cleaner?
so you dont want a cleaner to benefit from higher CPF rates because the billionaire would gain 0.01%. what a joke.:doh:
Oi u are another case of kong jiao way.
A cleaner can amass 600K CPF in their working life time? I know a Doc can easily amass that. So with ur super skills in maths. Who get to gain the most form your so call 10% CPF Bao Jia ZERO Risk return? Ah?
Can you tell me? don't tell me Cleaner and Doctor is the same.
1) are equity tranche returns higher is it? if TH returns 10%, i get 20%? but i cannot think of myself. other people CPF funds involved, so no need to get extra risk for extra returns. just conservative 10% returns will do.
2) we are looking for sustainable long-term returns. so what if 5year returns at TH sucks at 3%, look at all the other periods, so much higher than CPF. remember it is a 30 year period investment starting from 25 and ending at 55.
3) it is ok la. at conservative 10% annually, my CPF already go up by 16x after 30years. if market drop by 50% at time of FULL withdrawal, still go up by 8x. compared to steady pun-pee-pee only 2x after 30 years. :doh:
market have to drop 90% at time of withdrawal before sama-sama.
and if you dont make FULL withdrawal when market drop, then it is just unrealised paper loss, when market recover, can withdraw fully at ~15x.
where got <1%?
http://www.temasek.com.sg/investorrelations/temasekbonds
HC is such a sweet joker. She is no longer the stern dragon lady that i think she is. Her image grows in my heart :)
cpf invest with hc... den no $ to buy hdb leh...
Oi u are another case of kong jiao way.
A cleaner can amass 600K CPF in their working life time? I know a Doc can easily amass that. So with ur super skills in maths. Who get to gain the most form your so call 10% CPF Bao Jia ZERO Risk return? Ah?
Can you tell me? don't tell me Cleaner and Doctor is the same.
u replying to the correct post?
where do you get the figure of 600k for cleaner?
hopeful you are doing this for fun. :tsk-tsk: I'm done with this story.
("...just give me 10% enough.. I dun want more". there is no such thing as "risk less 10%". oh wait, why dun you educate all the average joes "dun worry there is no risk in TH". when that is done then get back to me, I will prepare the proposal , shall we ? ;) )
btw 1% I meant the spread. also bonds are not necessarily issued at par.
cpf invest with hc... den no $ to buy hdb leh...
i pretend to act stupid and dont know what you mean ;)
CPF-IS not invest with HC, it is the entire CPF that with invest with HC instead of buying SGS/SGSS
so you still have your CPF-IS to play with if you want, but if dont want to play CPF-IS then have still $ to buy HDB
hopeful you are doing this for fun. :tsk-tsk: I'm done with this story.
("...just give me 10% enough.. I dun want more". there is no such thing as "risk less 10%". oh wait, why dun you educate all the average joes "dun worry there is no risk in TH". when that is done then get back to me, I will prepare the proposal , shall we ? ;) )
btw 1% I meant the spread. also bonds are not necessarily issued at par.
amk, you are such a spoil sport :)
haha, actually 10% or even higher, the poor will still remain the poor and always will be regardless of rates because you are damn right about the money.
"in the land of the beautiful, there is no average-looking person."
10% returns will get 16x over 30 years. but then again, so does everybody. suddenly that 16x returns doesnt look so big afterall. and what will it do to the prices? The minimum sum may not be $155k but maybe $2million.
but i think govt is not paying enough attention to educate the public about retirement myth, and to increase the TFR.
how can people still believe that everybody can retire at 55 when current life-span is 85, and with falling TFR :doh:
perhaps some simple illustrations can help to educate the public about retirement myth.
illustration #1
can a robinson crusoe retire?
no. he fish & farm until he die. there is simply nobody else to provide food for him when he retire.
illustration #2
in a community of 10 old people and 1 young man in a farm. The 1 young people can produce only enough food for 2.
if CPF rates at 16%, the poorest old people have $1mio and richest have $10mio.
if CPF rates at 2.5%, the poorest old people have $100k and richest have $1mio.
who will the young man work for?
in both scenarios, the young man still work for the richest man. the rest of the poorer 9 elderly still have to farm or starve, no retirement for them.
(the 9 elderly people will complain that government 30 years ago promise they can retire, the 1 young man will say tough luck. i can only grow enough food for 2, 1 portion for myself and 1 portion to the highest bidder.)
no matter how much money a person have, his money is always in relation to others. if he is at bottom in the wealth ranking, tough luck.
repeat: it doesnt matter whether CPF is at 2.5% risk-free, or 16% risk-free, it is the ranking of my wealth in relation to others that is the big determinant whether i can retire or not. cruel? yes. reality? yes.
in an ageing society, falling TFR, that is what will happen: demand for goods/services exceed the supply of good/services.
demand and supply, yet it so hard for the people to understand.
it is like the paradox of thrift.
if one person save, it is good for him. everybody saves, economy suffers, everybody suffers.
if one person give birth to lesser children, it is good for his children. everybody give birth to lesser children, the whole country suffers.
i pre-apologise for my disjointed thoughts. :ashamed1:
and you are such a spoil sport ;)
illustration #1
can a robinson crusoe retire?
no. he fish & farm until he die. there is simply nobody else to provide food for him when he retire.
Can.
http://financialmentor.com/true-wealth/the-parable-of-the-mexican-fisherman-and-investment-banker/2422
The Parable Of The Mexican Fisherman And Investment Banker
One of my favorite stories – The Parable of The Mexican Fisherman - is perfect holiday fodder that brings much needed perspective to the wealth building game. It is short, fun and packs an important message. Additionally, I provide some related questions at the end of the story to help you plan for a prosperous New Year…
The Parable of The Mexican Fisherman And The Banker
An American investment banker was taking a much-needed vacation in a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. The boat had several large, fresh fish in it.
The investment banker was impressed by the quality of the fish and asked the Mexican how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied, “Only a little while.” The banker then asked why he didn’t stay out longer and catch more fish?
The Mexican fisherman replied he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.
The American then asked “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”
The Mexican fisherman replied, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos: I have a full and busy life, senor.”
The investment banker scoffed, “I am an Ivy League MBA, and I could help you. You could spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat, and with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats until eventually you would have a whole fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to the middleman you could sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You could control the product, processing and distribution.”
Then he added, “Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City where you would run your growing enterprise.”
The Mexican fisherman asked, “But senor, how long will this all take?”
To which the American replied, “15-20 years.”
“But what then?” asked the Mexican.
The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You could make millions.”
“Millions, senor? Then what?”
To which the investment banker replied, “Then you would retire. You could move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
u replying to the correct post?
where do you get the figure of 600k for cleaner?
precisely my pt. who benifit most? a Cleaner with 100K in CPF or a Doc with 600K in CPF if ur call for 10% no risk interest happen?
illustration #1
can a robinson crusoe retire?
no. he fish & farm until he die. there is simply nobody else to provide food for him when he retire.
Can.
http://financialmentor.com/true-wealth/the-parable-of-the-mexican-fisherman-and-investment-banker/2422
The Parable Of The Mexican Fisherman And Investment Banker
One of my favorite stories – The Parable of The Mexican Fisherman - is perfect holiday fodder that brings much needed perspective to the wealth building game. It is short, fun and packs an important message. Additionally, I provide some related questions at the end of the story to help you plan for a prosperous New Year…
The Parable of The Mexican Fisherman And The Banker
An American investment banker was taking a much-needed vacation in a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. The boat had several large, fresh fish in it.
The investment banker was impressed by the quality of the fish and asked the Mexican how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied, “Only a little while.” The banker then asked why he didn’t stay out longer and catch more fish?
The Mexican fisherman replied he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.
The American then asked “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”
The Mexican fisherman replied, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos: I have a full and busy life, senor.”
The investment banker scoffed, “I am an Ivy League MBA, and I could help you. You could spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat, and with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats until eventually you would have a whole fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to the middleman you could sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You could control the product, processing and distribution.”
Then he added, “Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City where you would run your growing enterprise.”
The Mexican fisherman asked, “But senor, how long will this all take?”
To which the American replied, “15-20 years.”
“But what then?” asked the Mexican.
The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You could make millions.”
“Millions, senor? Then what?”
To which the investment banker replied, “Then you would retire. You could move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
One Question the fisherman need to ponder. What if one day a big trawler comes and catches all his fishes and left him nothing to catch everyday? or Maybe climate changes happen and all the fishes in the aread die off etc. What will the fisherman do?
precisely my pt. who benifit most? a Cleaner with 100K in CPF or a Doc with 600K in CPF if ur call for 10% no risk interest happen?
i still dont get your point but anyway, since playtime is over, a cleaner will always be at the bottom of the dung heap, irregardless of what CPF rate is given, be it 2.5% or 10%.
and even if the cleaner's salary is increased to $1000pm, that $1000pm is still the lowest salary in Singapore. so a cleaner is still eating shit. Thats is the life for the bottom dwellers.
however by virtue that there are foreigners who are earning even lower than them, then the cleaner lifestyle is marginally improved when their salary is up to $1000.
Now the foreigner workers are the ones truly at the bottom of the dung heap in Singapore. However when they returned to their little villages with their savings, they will be enjoying a more comfortable life than singapore's lower class because their neighbours would even be much poorer than them.
thomastansb
06-06-14, 10:50
You should be more careful with your words. My mum earn less than 1k a month and she is not eating shit. Unless you think eating at hawker is equivalent to eating shit.
i still dont get your point but anyway, since playtime is over, a cleaner will always be at the bottom of the dung heap, irregardless of what CPF rate is given, be it 2.5% or 10%.
and even if the cleaner's salary is increased to $1000pm, that $1000pm is still the lowest salary in Singapore. so a cleaner is still eating shit. Thats is the life for the bottom dwellers.
however by virtue that there are foreigners who are earning even lower than them, then the cleaner lifestyle is marginally improved when their salary is up to $1000.
Now the foreigner workers are the ones truly at the bottom of the dung heap in Singapore. However when they returned to their little villages with their savings, they will be enjoying a more comfortable life than singapore's lower class because their neighbours would even be much poorer than them.
You should be more careful with your words. My mum earn less than 1k a month and she is not eating shit. Unless you think eating at hawker is equivalent to eating shit.
so u take exception to a cleaner eating shit but dont take exception to a cleaner at the bottom of the dung heap?
so u take exception to a cleaner eating shit but dont take exception to a cleaner at the bottom of the dung heap?
technically, the comparisons are not the same. being at the bottom of a heap does not mean consuming from the heap
technically, the comparisons are not the same. being at the bottom of a heap does not mean consuming from the heap
thank you for the language lesson. when translating a phrase from one language to another, nuances often get lost. so i will use the original hokkien phrase: cleaners will still "jiak sai".
hopefully no people take offense to this phrase.
i still dont get your point but anyway, since playtime is over, a cleaner will always be at the bottom of the dung heap, irregardless of what CPF rate is given, be it 2.5% or 10%.
and even if the cleaner's salary is increased to $1000pm, that $1000pm is still the lowest salary in Singapore. so a cleaner is still eating shit. Thats is the life for the bottom dwellers.
however by virtue that there are foreigners who are earning even lower than them, then the cleaner lifestyle is marginally improved when their salary is up to $1000.
Now the foreigner workers are the ones truly at the bottom of the dung heap in Singapore. However when they returned to their little villages with their savings, they will be enjoying a more comfortable life than singapore's lower class because their neighbours would even be much poorer than them.
thus I repeated n repeated myself. The cleaners need to learn new skills.
how u want me to explain? take out ur calculator and calculate then.
say a cleaner manage to save $50K 10% interest is how much?
a doctor with 600K 10% is how much.
so how is increasing the cpf interest help the poor? or it help the rich more?
should the $ spend be focus on the lower income to get them to learn a new skills to do a job that pay better?
thats progressive wage ladder.
So u got my pt. the poor will always remaind at the bottom if the cannot get a better job regardless the cpf interest rates or not.
Thats wat the who BS pt that the stupid roy missed.
http://catherinelim.sg/2014/06/07/an-open-letter-to-the-prime-minster/#comments
http://2x43di7fqtr1359hx1tnjj0te6.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/lhl1.jpg
An Open Letter to the Prime Minister
I had thought to keep quiet during this period of political transition while watching events unfold. But what is happening currently has perturbed me enough to want to do another commentary. I have cast it in the form of a direct letter to the PM, to convey a greater sense of urgency.
Dear Mr Prime Minister
We are in the midst of a crisis where the people no longer trust their government, and the government no longer cares about regaining their trust.
There are two clear signs that the present situation has reached crisis proportions, that it is not just an affective divide, not just an emotional estrangement between your PAP leadership and the people.
Firstly, the people are resorting to forms of high-visibility, high-risk protest never seen before, such as graffiti writ large on public buildings, persistent, strident online criticism despite stern government warnings and threats, an increased frequency of mass gatherings held at the Speakers’ Corner, as well as increased hostility shown at these gatherings.
Secondly, the protest is not confined to a small group of young dissidents emboldened by Internet power, but is spreading to involve large segments of the population, as seen in a senior citizen’s active contribution to the angry graffiti, and in a public outpouring of sympathy, in the form of financial help, for the blogger Roy Ngerng who is being sued by you for defamation.
How did this crisis arise in the first place?
With utmost respect, Sir, I must point out that it is ultimately your inability or unwillingness to listen to the people. After your initial show of contrition and your ardent promises of change, following the shock of the General Election of 2011 (a change of heart which must have astonished as well as heartened a lot of Singaporeans like myself), your government now seems to be hardening its position and going back to the old PAP reliance on a climate of fear maintained by the deployment of the famous PAP instruments of control, notably the defamation suit.
Hence while you see yourself as simply going by the rules, Singaporeans see you as the PAP juggernaut ready to mow down the little people in its path.In all fairness to you, Sir, the defamation suit, per se, is a legitimate instrument in any law-governed society, allowing anyone to seek redress and justice. Hence, making use of this means to defend your reputation is entirely within your rights, as indeed, you would be the first to affirm that it is the right of any blogger to sue the government if he or she thinks fit. But in Singapore, alas, it is by no means such a simple, straightforward matter. For Singaporeans have long got used to a certain belief that colours all their perceptions, namely, that here, there is no level playing field but one massively tilted in favour of an all-powerful, vindictive government that will have no qualms about reducing its opponents to bankruptcy. Hence while you see yourself as simply going by the rules, Singaporeans see you as the PAP juggernaut ready to mow down the little people in its path.
Again in fairness to you, Sir, it can clearly be seen that you and your colleagues have, since the debacle of 2011, made great efforts to improve the lot of the people. Indeed, anyone can see the improvements, continuously planned or implemented, in the many areas of jobs, transport, housing, education, recreation. But the hard truth is that the expectations of the people, especially the young, go well beyond material needs, to encompass the long denied need for freedom of expression, open debate and public assembly. Unlike the older generation who were grateful for simple amenities such as modern sanitation and clean streets, the new, better educated, globally-exposed, Internet population demand much more.
The truth, Sir, is more sobering: they are seeing these so-called achievements as no more than what is owing to them from leaders who have chosen to pay themselves handsomely to do their job.Indeed, you probably are tempted to call them the spoilt, blasé, so-what generation that is taking for granted these material achievements which would have been appreciated anywhere else in the world. The truth, Sir, is more sobering: they are seeing these so-called achievements as no more than what is owing to them from leaders who have chosen to pay themselves handsomely to do their job. Moreover, the skepticism bred by distrust has cast all these laudable efforts of your government as just self-serving strategies to advance party interests and stay in power. I have to say that I am somewhat dismayed by the pure vitriol of your more extreme online critics who gleefully twist everything that you say and do to serve their cynicism. It is a sad measure of what can happen when trust is gone.
In short, distrust is something so emotionally charged that it is guided by its own perilous logic and propelled by its own alarming momentum. It has already widened the original disconnect between the PAP and the people into an almost unbridgeable chasm.
What can be done to deal with this unprecedented crisis of trust before it escalates further and reaches a point of no return, something which obviously neither side wants?
For a start, there are some hard truths that have to be faced by the PAP, no matter how unpalatable:
1) For the change to be truly beneficial to the people, it cannot be something merely concessionary, much less cosmetic or superficial, such as the leaders giving up the traditional austere all-white uniform for something a little more colourful, so as to blend in with the crowd; abandoning their usual stern, distant style for greater friendliness and smiling approachability; purging their image of all signs of elitism through a more visible presence at hawker centres or the MRT; peppering their speeches with humorous personal anecdotes and admiring observations about ordinary Singaporeans, such as this young person with little education who made good or that hardworking teacher who went out of her way to help her students, etc.
True change goes well beyond all these surface overtures. It has to be no less than paradigmatic, enacted at a much higher level of sincere purpose backed up by sincere action, no matter how difficult.True change goes well beyond all these surface overtures. It has to be no less than paradigmatic, enacted at a much higher level of sincere purpose backed up by sincere action, no matter how difficult. Only then can there be an overhaul of old mindsets and habits of governance, no matter how valued.
Now I will have the temerity to suggest, Sir, that the PAP leadership had, not too long ago, missed a certain rare and valuable opportunity to show the people its sincerity for this kind of change. Shortly after the watershed 2011 General Election, some ex-political detainees made a request for a commission of inquiry to look into the allegations that the government had made against them, a request which was brusquely dismissed. To accede to the request would of course have shocked PAP diehards and the majority of Singaporeans, simply because it would have been so uncharacteristic of the PAP style.
But if it is true that extraordinary problems call for extraordinary solutions, it would have been precisely this act of unaccustomed humility, courage and sensitivity to the people’s feelings, that would have conveyed unquestioned sincerity and honesty, and provoked positive reaction from the people. And if, additionally, there were gracious acceptance of the verdict of the inquiry, even if it meant an apology and the need to make amends, that would have been a gesture large and empathetic enough, to win over even the most vocal critics. It would certainly have begun the process of creating, for the first time in the history of the PAP government-people relationship, a nexus of understanding and reciprocity. (I have dealt rather lengthily on this example simply because to this day, I fervently wish that it had happened)
2) As long as the crisis of trust persists, Sir, all your words of advice, caution and encouragement to the people, all the statements you are making about the need for good politics and good policies, for constructive debate, for all Singaporeans to work together in harmony and goodwill to build a strong, prosperous, stable society where everyone will be cared for, which everyone can call home, etc, etc, will only fall on deaf ears, or worse, be construed as no more than PR pronouncements of much pretension and little worth.
3) The old era that may be aptly called The Lee Kuan Yew Era, is now over, and for the succeeding PAP leaders to be seen as clinging to it despite their obviously good intentions and efforts to respond to the unstoppable forces of change in the new era, is to be caught in a neither-here-nor-there, politically ill-defined domain that gets pushed and pulled both ways. It gives the unfortunate impression of lack of leadership direction, which is invariably and unfavourably contrasted with the strength, conviction and vision of the first Prime Minister, Mr Lee Kuan Yew.
Hence, while Singaporeans attribute Singapore’s amazing success in the world to Mr Lee’s purposeful style, they are less ready to do the same for the two succeeding Prime Ministers whose achievements are by no means inconsiderable. While Singaporeans were ready to accord Mr Lee much respect and trust (though with scant affection), they perceive the younger leaders after him as less deserving of these, and therefore not entitled to lecture and scold them as Mr Lee used to do with impunity. If Lee Kuan Yew alone received the famously humongous ministerial salary increase, the people would not have minded, but when the rest also did, they were outraged.
Today, in a twist of supreme irony that would have incensed Mr Lee, Singaporeans see the defamation suit itself, and not the act that has entailed it, as the very cause of the erosion of trust.4) What had worked well in the old era may no longer be relevant today, or worse, may even be damaging. When Mr Lee Kuan Yew liberally used the defamation suit against his critics, one of the reasons he gave (if I remember correctly) was that he wanted to punish them for implying government corruption, and thus eroding the trust of the people, which he said was necessary for the government to do its work. Today, in a twist of supreme irony that would have incensed Mr Lee, Singaporeans see the defamation suit itself, and not the act that has entailed it, as the very cause of the erosion of trust. A few more applications of this once effective instrument of control, even if legally justifiable, would surely damage the PAP cause further, in the highly charged atmosphere of the new Singapore.
5) While Singaporeans appreciate the original PAP principles of hard work, self discipline, responsibility and incorruptibility, they can see that the inflexibility of style based on rationality, reason, head-over-heart logic and letter-of-the-law adherence may be woefully inadequate to deal with a new era where politics is necessarily complex, messy and noisy. This is because human nature, ultimately, cannot be ignored, and has to be factored into any political equation.
So, in terms of practical action, what can be done about the present growing crisis of trust in our midst?
Again, Sir, I will beg to be presumptuous, and make the following suggestions:
1) You, and only you, Sir, can initiate the process leading to the solution of the problem. In theory and ideally, the three forces for major change in any society, namely, the government, the institutions and the people, work together. But in Singapore, unfortunately, the last two are helpless. Only the dominant PAP can initiate change and sustain it. Hence, whether you like it or not, Sir, if you genuinely seek a restoration of trust, you have first to go it alone, signal your new attitude to the institutions and the people, and patiently encourage them to take the cue and play their part. It will be a long, strenuous process.
A less-than-genuine effort would be something like launching a high-profile project such as the great Singapore Conversation, watch it go through the motions and various stages of a set timetable, and then shrug off the indifferent results.
There must be many in your camp who feel the same way but are reluctant to speak up. It may be a good thing to start listening to them in order to start listening to the people.2) There are some voices in your government, Sir, and some staunch PAP loyalists who have bravely, albeit gently, tried to draw your attention to the growing divide between you and the people. Professor Tommy Koh some time back actually commented that the use of the defamation suit was not exactly commendable or useful in the long run, and recently Dr Lily Neo calmly and tactfully suggested during a parliamentary sitting that you ought to be listening more to the people and communicating better with them. There must be many in your camp who feel the same way but are reluctant to speak up. It may be a good thing to start listening to them in order to start listening to the people.
3) In the end, you and your colleagues who have for decades been skilfully solving tough, bread-and-butter problems faced by the nation, will be in the best position to deal with this equally serious problem of trust. It is of course a completely different problem, but with the same application of efficiency, determination and dedication, it will no doubt be one more crisis solved, or at least defused, for the nation to move on.
This is an epochal time in Singapore’s history, when one era is fading into the past, and a new one is being transitioned into. If the present crisis of trust is not resolved, it will become even more intractable for the next Prime Minister and the new generation of leaders, for by then the crisis would have deteriorated into meltdown. In the absence of the people’s trust, effective government is virtually impossible, as every leader knows. To prevent this from happening, only you, Sir, can pave the way for a new understanding and reconciliation. It is a huge, onerous, daunting and certainly unenviable task of damage control, repair and restoration. But it is surely top priority, if only because the alternative would be just too scary.
Yours sincerely
Catherine Lim
Tis entire article is based on one presumption, that those complaining "are right" and the gov is wrong, thus, " please do this and that to rectify", dun " miss the opportunity" blah blah.
And once again these ppl are right because "ministers paid millions".:ashamed1:
Catherine Lim, you are so wrong. Do you even consider your basis of argument, that "younger generation takes material achievement for granted because they deserve it since ministers paid millions", is even legitimate ?
She hoping to sell more books?
Actually the people will never trust the government. regardless how good. coz the people always think of themselves 1st. Not country.
That is the no. 1 problem. Self centerness of the population. Well Together we stand. divided we fail.
condoviewer
07-06-14, 20:49
Well Together we stand. divided we fail.
http://modernsurvivalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/a-nation-cannot-survive-treason-from-within.jpg
nobody thinks PAP have an image problem?
their image is suffering from death by a thousand cuts.
the PM should really tell his members to stop saying inane things like taking toothpicks from restaurant" or $600k peanuts or even $8 heart operation.
and then stupid stuff like "inside polling station is not within 200m of station"
most times, a simple apology saying that you screwed up and promised you do better next time work wonders than trying to go some legal gymnastics.
i think HC show more balls than the other guys. (even though wayang2), at least she offer to take responsibility for TH poor performance, even though in the end, she didnt leave.
sometimes, image is more important than the reality.
hope pap can wayang like cao cao.
http://www.chinavoc.com/history/three/caocao.htm
"It happened that Cao Cao was once riding at the head of his troops along a narrow path in some wheat fields, and, beholding the luxuriant growth on both sides, gave orders that no one should be allowed to trample on the wheat and that anyone who disobeyed should be beheaded. At this, the soldiers all dismounted and started marching on foot. Presently Cao Cao's own horse bolted and rushed into the wheat fields. In those days, laws were never applied to a sovereign, but Cao Cao said to his officers and men, "How can I expect my troops to follow me if I myself violate the military laws I made. But I am the commander-in-chief. Without me the army would be leaderless. So it behooves me to mete out my own punishment. " With these words, Cao Cao drew his sword and cut off his head-dress in place of his head. Then he had it hung by the side of the path as a warning to all."
Like dat say. The the opposes are equally similar. Flipping n flopping on what they say. One moment zero FW policy. One moment say open up. One moment say actually open a little. Largy best keep quiet when queries on their no tender award to own people. N the list goes on.
When government apologies people say government weak got things to hide. When government say $1000 own hdb people say bullshit. When don't debat too much on bill people say not transparent. When there are voice n debate people government in fighting.
All depends what I want to see. Every thing only see half empty. Nothing will appear goods good also say not good enough.
The unhappy will always find reason to be unhappy.
nobody thinks PAP have an image problem?
their image is suffering from death by a thousand cuts.
the PM should really tell his members to stop saying inane things like taking toothpicks from restaurant" or $600k peanuts or even $8 heart operation.
and then stupid stuff like "inside polling station is not within 200m of station"
most times, a simple apology saying that you screwed up and promised you do better next time work wonders than trying to go some legal gymnastics.
i think HC show more balls than the other guys. (even though wayang2), at least she offer to take responsibility for TH poor performance, even though in the end, she didnt leave.
sometimes, image is more important than the reality.
hope pap can wayang like cao cao.
http://www.chinavoc.com/history/three/caocao.htm
"It happened that Cao Cao was once riding at the head of his troops along a narrow path in some wheat fields, and, beholding the luxuriant growth on both sides, gave orders that no one should be allowed to trample on the wheat and that anyone who disobeyed should be beheaded. At this, the soldiers all dismounted and started marching on foot. Presently Cao Cao's own horse bolted and rushed into the wheat fields. In those days, laws were never applied to a sovereign, but Cao Cao said to his officers and men, "How can I expect my troops to follow me if I myself violate the military laws I made. But I am the commander-in-chief. Without me the army would be leaderless. So it behooves me to mete out my own punishment. " With these words, Cao Cao drew his sword and cut off his head-dress in place of his head. Then he had it hung by the side of the path as a warning to all."
last time pple stupid.. today the pple will want to see the real head roll...
last time pple stupid.. today the pple will want to see the real head roll...
well, LHL need a Wang Hou to appease the masses.
http://modernsurvivalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/a-nation-cannot-survive-treason-from-within.jpg
especially when traitors occupy the highest level of powers.
Like dat say. The the opposes are equally similar. Flipping n flopping on what they say. One moment zero FW policy. One moment say open up. One moment say actually open a little. Largy best keep quiet when queries on their no tender award to own people. N the list goes on.
When government apologies people say government weak got things to hide. When government say $1000 own hdb people say bullshit. When don't debat too much on bill people say not transparent. When there are voice n debate people government in fighting.
All depends what I want to see. Every thing only see half empty. Nothing will appear goods good also say not good enough.
The unhappy will always find reason to be unhappy.
you see a monkey eat shit. you find it funny.
you see a human eat shit. you find it disgusting.
my expectations of pap and clowns are different. when i see clowns clowning around, i laugh. when i see pap ministers clowning around, it is sickening.
"Every month, when I receive my CPF statement, I feel so rich" by the same idiot who takes half the toothpicks :doh:
there is no single critical incident, but it is a series of mis-steps like this that tarnish pap's image gradually.
"Every month, when I receive my CPF statement, I feel so rich" by the same idiot who takes half the toothpicks :doh:
lol i googled and found out lss said that!! totally bad and stupid comment!!
it's like someone wearing an armani suit, and cut a few holes here n there, and then tell a homeless man and say 'see? we are the same....'
I guess its always easier to claim credit coz that just cant go wrong.
phantom_opera
10-06-14, 11:45
PAP has a communication problem to those who are not financially trained.
ST quoted Tharman as saying that 2.5% CPF OA return is already decent because if GIC/Temasek wants to seek 1y rolling funding it only cost 1.7% on average in the past 10y :doh:
While that is absolutely true but that is not how the protesters are thinking ... the more financially trained group will invest their CPF OA in stocks or properties or simply transfer to CPF SA while the untrained of course will just kpkb that 2.5% is below inflation rate
ST should simply say that extra 1% already given to first 20k in CPF OA ... then the debate will be whether 3.5% can beat inflation or not
Then PAP can say first 20k is pegged to inflation rate or 3.5% whichever is higher as the ultimate solution :p
76 years old lady begged Hri Kumar to help her get CPF money back
http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2014/06/76-years-old-lady-begged-hri-kumar-to-help-her-get-cpf-money-back/
76 years old lady begged Hri Kumar to help her get CPF money back
http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2014/06/76-years-old-lady-begged-hri-kumar-to-help-her-get-cpf-money-back/
Hello minority, pls speak on this issue.
phantom_opera
15-06-14, 16:36
Read that Norway GPF return 5.7%pa (with inflation 1.89%pa) since 1998
So the return of 5%pa for SMRA account (first 60k) is considered quite ok provided long term inflation rate is around 1.5-2%pa
You asking minority to speak on the issue?
Don't you know why he kept quiet?
If you force him to reply, he may say all this just talk cock and bullshit? :scared-2:
As usual, don't expect any word from him that is even slightly critical of the establishment, but he got lots of good words and even exaggeration about (for even those issues that majority singaporeans deemed as bad) ........... :beats-me-man:
Hello minority, pls speak on this issue.
Hello minority, pls speak on this issue.
don't think Hri Kumar can do much
maybe Singaporean do some donation to her
under a TRUST Account ?
Read that Norway GPF return 5.7%pa (with inflation 1.89%pa) since 1998
So the return of 5%pa for SMRA account (first 60k) is considered quite ok provided long term inflation rate is around 1.5-2%pa
Population of Norway also around the same as Singapore
5 over million
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway
Their Gini coefficient as of 2011 = 22.3
Norway (Listeni/ˈnɔrweɪ/; Norwegian: About this sound Norge (Bokmål) or About this sound Noreg (Nynorsk)), officially the Kingdom of Norway (Kongeriket Norge in Bokmål and Kongeriket Noreg in Nynorsk), is a Scandinavian unitary constitutional monarchy whose territory comprises the western portion of the Scandinavian Peninsula, Jan Mayen, the Arctic archipelago of Svalbard, and the sub-Antarctic Bouvet Island.[note 1] Norway has a total area of 385,252 square kilometres (148,747 sq mi) and a population of 5,109,059 people.
Norway Area - 385,252.0 km2, 148,747 sq mi
Singapore Area - Total 716.1 km2, 276 sq mi
Hello minority, pls speak on this issue.
The lady have a landed. I repeat Lived in a landed. What else is there to say? If I live in a landed I have no road to go? Or Really worst of than the low income? Who is worst?
She need to attend some finical planning class. No diff from the lady who waste 1M in 1yr. Donno where the $ go.
She have so many options like downgrade to a HDB. sell the landed. and put the suplus into a REITs or equity that pay good divined.
Depend on the $100 CPF? LOL! And people kpkb about min sum. if no Min Sum the when hit 65 how to catch up with inflation?
People are so funny. want Cradle to grave all take care of. Do some planning. Anyway this lady is not like jia lat. got option just don't want. to take. who to blame? blame god lor.
Norway (Listeni/ˈnɔrweɪ/; Norwegian: About this sound Norge (Bokmål) or About this sound Noreg (Nynorsk)), officially the Kingdom of Norway (Kongeriket Norge in Bokmål and Kongeriket Noreg in Nynorsk), is a Scandinavian unitary constitutional monarchy whose territory comprises the western portion of the Scandinavian Peninsula, Jan Mayen, the Arctic archipelago of Svalbard, and the sub-Antarctic Bouvet Island.[note 1] Norway has a total area of 385,252 square kilometres (148,747 sq mi) and a population of 5,109,059 people.
Norway Area - 385,252.0 km2, 148,747 sq mi
Singapore Area - Total 716.1 km2, 276 sq mi
Also
Norway has extensive reserves of petroleum, natural gas, minerals, lumber, seafood, fresh water, and hydropower.
Resources
Export revenues from oil and gas have risen to almost 50% of total exports and constitute more than 20% of the GDP.[95] Norway is the fifth-largest oil exporter and third-largest gas exporter in the world, but it is not a member of OPEC.
http://myweb.rollins.edu/tlairson/asiabus/singstr2.jpg
http://www.oldstratforduponavon.com/sitebuilder/images/singapore-620x413.jpg
http://scenery.cultural-china.com/chinaWH/images/exbig_images/bfabf33cfb09e1b1eed26c6e95bfe54f.bmp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9DX-_TV3KA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRwwWyM7dXc
You asking minority to speak on the issue?
Don't you know why he kept quiet?
If you force him to reply, he may say all this just talk cock and bullshit? :scared-2:
As usual, don't expect any word from him that is even slightly critical of the establishment, but he got lots of good words and even exaggeration about (for even those issues that majority singaporeans deemed as bad) ........... :beats-me-man:
Talk cock lah. So this lady She live in a landed. so u think she have a problem or the low income have a bigger problem? U are a joke.
Talk cock lah. So this lady She live in a landed. so u think she have a problem or the low income have a bigger problem? U are a joke.
Sorry to have underestimated her for thinking she is poor
But learn an important lesson
Those who live in Landed and Private Property should not ask for CPF to be returned :) or any at all
Those who live in HDB cannot either
Because they will use the money to go to Batam :) :eek:
Not happy with the above ?
Give up Singapore citizen ship
Wuahahaha
Will there be more changes to cpf coming soon because of all the unhappiness? :confused:
Will there be more changes to cpf coming soon because of all the unhappiness? :confused:
Since when people are happy. nothing is ever enough. it s More More More. now a days is ME ME ME + the MORE MORE MORE.
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