View Full Version : Time to tweak property curbs: CDL chief Kwek Leng Beng
princess_morbucks
07-02-14, 12:50
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/money/story/time-tweak-property-curbs-cdl-chief-kwek-leng-beng-20140207
A prominent real estate industry veteran called on the Government on Friday to review some of its property market cooling measures as home sales and prices fall.
"As the property market starts to cool ... this may be the right time to tweak the control measures in the light of concern over the global economy," said City Developments (CDL) executive chairman Kwek Leng Beng.
"It does take time for the medicine to work. Both the private and public sectors want a soft landing."
He also said developers should "continue to work closely and collectively with the Government to ensure a sustainable property market, which is a difficult balancing task".
princess_morbucks
07-02-14, 12:57
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/breaking-news/singapore/time-tweak-property-cooling-measures-kwek-leng-beng-20140207
IT is the time for the government to tweak the property cooling measures that it has introduced since 2009 given concerns over the global economy, Kwek Leng Beng, executive chairman of Hong Leong Group Singapore and listed property developer City Developments Limited (CDL) said on Friday.
"Since 2009, the Government has introduced a series of measures to control the real estate prices, to ensure home ownerships to Singaporeans are affordable with sufficient supply especially for first-time homebuyers. This is commendable," Mr Kwek said.
"As the property market starts to cool, I would like to humbly suggest that this may be the right time to tweak the control measures in the light of concern over the global economy even in the year of the horse. It does take time for the medicine to work. Both the private and public sectors want a soft landing," he added.
Mr Kwek was speaking at the Real Estate Developers' Association of Singapore (Redas) Spring Festival lunch held at the W Singapore hotel, where he was presented with the inaugural Redas Lifetime Achievement Award.
CDL stock has dropped till only $9.22. The Man has to speak. Furthermore can launch his Southbeach project.:scared-4:
and with the Fed starting to taper and most central bank worldwide bias towards inflation and with interest rates on the up?
With Singapore property kiasuism, any relaxation will cause immediate uptrend and cause another bubble..and Forbes Jesse Colombo will clap his hand.
Leng Beng say "humbly" in order not to offend Obi Wan.
I am guessing that the government could possibily removing some cooling measures for central area region so that we can rely on foreign investors money to develop the marina bay area.
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/money/story/time-tweak-property-curbs-cdl-chief-kwek-leng-beng-20140207
Time to tweak property curbs: CDL chief Kwek Leng Beng
Published on Feb 07, 2014
1:34 PM
By Melissa Tan
A prominent real estate industry veteran called on the Government on Friday to review some of its property market cooling measures as home sales and prices fall.
"As the property market starts to cool ... this may be the right time to tweak the control measures in the light of concern over the global economy," said City Developments (CDL) executive chairman Kwek Leng Beng.
"It does take time for the medicine to work. Both the private and public sectors want a soft landing."
He also said developers should "continue to work closely and collectively with the Government to ensure a sustainable property market, which is a difficult balancing task".
Mr Kwek was speaking at a lunch organised by the Real Estate Developers Association (Redas) at the W Singapore hotel in Sentosa Cove, where he was awarded the inaugural Redas Lifetime Achievement Award.
The award was established to honour a "pioneering group of industry leaders", Redas said in a statement.
The association noted that Mr Kwek was "known for his foresight and astute acquisitions" and had transformed CDL from a loss-making company into a profitable one.
He has also helped to reform the property sector with actions such as the introduction of the Developers' Fund to protect buyers, which enforced the rule that money collected for a specific project could not be used for any other purposes, Redas added.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/breaking-news/singapore/time-tweak-property-cooling-measures-kwek-leng-beng-20140207
Published February 07, 2014
Time to tweak property cooling measures: Kwek Leng Beng
By Felda Chay
[email protected]
IT is the time for the government to tweak the property cooling measures that it has introduced since 2009 given concerns over the global economy, Kwek Leng Beng, executive chairman of Hong Leong Group Singapore and listed property developer City Developments Limited (CDL) said on Friday.
"Since 2009, the Government has introduced a series of measures to control the real estate prices, to ensure home ownerships to Singaporeans are affordable with sufficient supply especially for first-time homebuyers. This is commendable," Mr Kwek said.
"As the property market starts to cool, I would like to humbly suggest that this may be the right time to tweak the control measures in the light of concern over the global economy even in the year of the horse. It does take time for the medicine to work. Both the private and public sectors want a soft landing," he added.
Mr Kwek was speaking at the Real Estate Developers' Association of Singapore (Redas) Spring Festival lunch held at the W Singapore hotel, where he was presented with the inaugural Redas Lifetime Achievement Award.
Mr Kwek's comments come amid signs that Singapore's housing market is slowing down.
Statistics from the Urban Redevelopment Authority showed that for the last three months of 2013, private home prices fell 0.9 per cent - first quarterly drop in about two years.
For the full year, URA's overall private home price index ended 1.1 per cent higher - a smaller gain compared to the 2.8 per cent seen in 2012.
The speech fro REDAS chief is much better and professional.
Separately, president of REDAS Chia Boon Kuah said the property market is showing signs of decelerating on the back of concerted efforts by the government to manage housing supply and curb speculative buying.
Restrictive home loans, the increased supply of residential units and fast increasing labour costs have been "unnerving" to developers.
Mr Chia said: "This is a resilient industry, and when the going gets tough, we just get more resourceful."
Meanwhile, REDAS also called on members to refocus attention on workplace safety and welfare of migrant workers in the industry.
Wunderkind
07-02-14, 15:45
The speech fro REDAS chief is much better and professional.
Separately, president of REDAS Chia Boon Kuah said the property market is showing signs of decelerating on the back of concerted efforts by the government to manage housing supply and curb speculative buying.
Restrictive home loans, the increased supply of residential units and fast increasing labour costs have been "unnerving" to developers.
Mr Chia said: "This is a resilient industry, and when the going gets tough, we just get more resourceful."
Meanwhile, REDAS also called on members to refocus attention on workplace safety and welfare of migrant workers in the industry.
He didn't really say anything of consequential. I would prefer Kwek Leng Beng for speaking his mind in a very rational and collected way.
he was humbled by his share price at 8+ dollar. Kwek and property agents are sharing the brunt of cm and tdsr
he was humbled by his share price at 8+ dollar. Kwek and property agents are sharing the brunt of cm and tdsr
Leng Beng wealth is not so much in CDL or any of his listed companies, it is his privately held hong leong holding companies that is worth the most to him.
but he has to answer to his cdl shareholders too which maybe close friends or relatives....maybe he feel pai seh. Though they are not commoners, more of face thing
proud owner
07-02-14, 16:50
well .... developers have made so much $$$ since the bull run started in 2006 ...
I am expecting more to start speaking up ... except maybe for the How Lian FEO ... they simply place all unsold units into their subsidiary and rent out ...
the big boys are starting to speak, the music will restart...
He didn't really say anything of consequential. I would prefer Kwek Leng Beng for speaking his mind in a very rational and collected way.
Very rational?
During property bull run, never read him telling the govt please introduce cooling measures...property is sky high...developers are making so much money...
It's good that Mr. Khaw don't give developer face...like he said in Facebook that
the govt did the right thing although it made sellers and developers unhappy.
well .... developers have made so much $$$ since the bull run started in 2006 ...
I am expecting more to start speaking up ... except maybe for the How Lian FEO ... they simply place all unsold units into their subsidiary and rent out ...
FEO is actually very active in the industrial property segment and with the -newly recruited ex senior URA executive, I think they should not make any comments about government policies.
We will know whether the govt did the right thing or not about property measures when 2016 GE comes? :beats-me-man:
Very rational?
During property bull run, never read him telling the govt please introduce cooling measures...property is sky high...developers are making so much money...
It's good that Mr. Khaw don't give developer face...like he said in Facebook that
the govt did the right thing although it made sellers and developers unhappy.
Patrickstar
07-02-14, 22:46
I always believe that singaporeans should not be penalised for investing in additional properties and only foreigners should be paying absd.
Very rational?
During property bull run, never read him telling the govt please introduce cooling measures...property is sky high...developers are making so much money...
It's good that Mr. Khaw don't give developer face...like he said in Facebook that
the govt did the right thing although it made sellers and developers unhappy.
Resale HDB prices could be correcting too fast and become unpredictable.
IT is time for the government to tweak some of its property cooling measures such as the additional buyer's stamp duty (ABSD), given concerns over the global economy and signs that the property market here is slowing down, said Kwek Leng Beng, executive chairman of Hong Leong Group Singapore and property developer City Developments.
He suggested that the government consider lifting the hefty stamp duties imposed on foreigners when they buy property here, and replace it with a tax on sellers who offload their property three or four years after snapping it up.
"Everybody is attracting foreigners today to their countries. We should attract foreigners. But if . . . you penalise them by having to pay additional tax, then they (will) say you don't welcome me.
"So why don't you (the government) just say, if you sell within three years, four years, then I tax you. You come in (and buy property) I don't want to tax. I think this is one way," said Mr Kwek, who was speaking to reporters on the sidelines of the Real Estate Developers' Association of Singapore (Redas) Spring Festival lunch yesterday.
The government can also consider lifting ABSD for locals - who are subject to the additional tax when they purchase more than one home - and permanent residents, he said.
"I don't think there is a lot of speculation. The prices are high because developers have got no land stock . . . in the land bank. (At the same time) they have to survive, they cannot let business come to a standstill.
"So I think for some of these, we will (need to) have a dialogue with the government . . . I think the government has the bigger picture. We leave it to them. They are trying their best. They want a stabilised market. We will cooperate with them."
Mr Kwek's comments come amid signs that the housing market is slowing down. Statistics from the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) showed that for the last three months of 2013, private home prices fell 0.9 per cent - the first quarterly drop in about two years. For the full year, URA's overall private home price index ended 1.1 per cent higher - a smaller gain compared with the 2.8 per cent recorded in 2012.
Besides working closely with the government to build a healthy property market, developers will also work closely with the government on the next phase of nation-building and real estate development to achieve a "distinctive, high-quality living environment for all", said Chia Boon Kuah, president of Redas.
This means that construction activity will remain at high levels and continue unabated for several years, making it "ever more important to re-focus our collective attention on workplace safety and welfare of the some 30,000 migrant workers in our industry", he said.
"As developers, we should support our contractors in showing duty of care for the health, safety and welfare of these workers. This enhances productivity, which, in the long run, translates into benefits for all."
Last month, a worksite accident in Sentosa left one foreign worker dead and 10 others injured.
The death of the worker takes the number of fatalities at worksite accidents to nine in just over a month, prompting Acting Manpower Minister Tan Chuan-Jin to write on his blog that the recent spate of accidents was "not tenable".
Developers and contractors should, therefore, "up the ante on workplace safety training and communication" and "recognise the contributions these workers make to our country", said Mr Chia, who is also group president and chief executive of developer GuocoLand.
Redas would hold a forum to identify and discuss common causes behind construction workplace accidents, challenges to risk reduction and best practices, he said.
Yesterday, Redas presented Mr Kwek with its inaugural Redas Lifetime Achievement Award, which it established to honour a pioneering group of industry leaders.
The Redas citation said that Mr Kwek has helped to shape the property industry and guided Redas through several difficult periods, such as the property crash in the early 1980s.
Together with other developers, he also helped to reform the sector by introducing the Developers' Fund to protect buyers. This ensured that money collected for a specific project could not be used for other purposes.
Mr Kwek received his award from Education Minister Heng Swee Keat, who was guest-of-honour at the event.
I think tdsr may not pull out so fast by govt. Now it is only start to see a dip n impact really felt by the market. Maybe near to the next election period, 2016/2017
Resale HDB prices could be correcting too fast and become unpredictable.
Valuation still high and even last month stats shows that prices went up a bit.
Mr. Khaw was right when he said that prices has not steadied for HDB resale...
means prices will come down more before it stabilises.
Wunderkind
08-02-14, 07:58
Very rational?
During property bull run, never read him telling the govt please introduce cooling measures...property is sky high...developers are making so much money...
It's good that Mr. Khaw don't give developer face...like he said in Facebook that
the govt did the right thing although it made sellers and developers unhappy.
The proof of the pudding is economic stability and people cohesion. And it is hard act to balance. It is not about giving whose face. There is no divide between businesses and consumers. For Singapore to work, both have to grow. It is about our future. What is the goal that the government want to accomplish by killing businesses?
Amber Woods
08-02-14, 08:20
Mr Kwek suggested lifting ABSD for foreigners clearly showed that he was more concern with his business's profitability than the greater good. Look at London now, the rich from emerging markets are buying and chasing up prices in London just to part their money.
We have also witnessed the many empty high end apartments in Singapore now bought by foreigners prior to the ABSD. This is a waste of resources and artificially inflated demand. That was the reason why the government imposed ABSD on foreigners. If not for the ABSD, we may be facing what London is facing now and with even more empty apartments.
The proof of the pudding is economic stability and people cohesion. And it is hard act to balance. It is not about giving whose face. There is no divide between businesses and consumers. For Singapore to work, both have to grow. It is about our future. What is the goal that the government want to accomplish by killing businesses?
Has businesses been killed now by the cooling measures?
If the developer placed lower bid, launch affordable prices, where consumer find it
Attractive and at the price where the developer still earn.
Would that be better for the economy?
Its time for the developer to think resourceful, learn how to work with current policy rules.
Not just having a fast and shortcut way to generate money.
walkthetiger
08-02-14, 09:39
Its time for the developer to think resourceful, learn how to work with current policy rules.
Not just having a fast and shortcut way to generate money.
Developers appear running out of solutions...haha... Mr. kwek, please continue to cut price your price, this will surely work.
Anyway, money was so easy in property past few years, should have make enough by now as well...It is time giving back to the people.
Wunderkind
08-02-14, 10:56
Has businesses been killed now by the cooling measures?
If the developer placed lower bid, launch affordable prices, where consumer find it
Attractive and at the price where the developer still earn.
Would that be better for the economy?
Its time for the developer to think resourceful, learn how to work with current policy rules.
Not just having a fast and shortcut way to generate money.
The developers are finding themselves like frogs in a boiling pot of water.
For sure they will be cooked if the water continues to boil. That why they are "jumping".
The epiphany is to discover that the once "animal lover" has left the kitchen to tend to his bonsai plant in the garden.
What is the problem with allowing foreigners to buy condo units which are basically air space (govt just need to increase plot ratio and height limit) and then leave vacant? Singapore earn their $$$ which can be distributed to help the poor! Why cares whether they leave vacant? Then don't have to keep asking Singaporeans who are already "poor" due to high costs of living etc to donate to charity to help the poor and keeping saying need to raise taxes particularly from assets!
Instead, govt should instead stop allowing foreigners (including PRs) to buy:
1. HDB flats!
2. landed properties!
3. heartland OCR properties!
By imposing ABSD that is artificially high compared to citizens, is the govt telling the foreigners that they are not welcomed here so much so that govt won't even allow them to buy "air space"? :doh:
Mr Kwek suggested lifting ABSD for foreigners clearly showed that he was more concern with his business's profitability than the greater good. Look at London now, the rich from emerging markets are buying and chasing up prices in London just to part their money.
We have also witnessed the many empty high end apartments in Singapore now bought by foreigners prior to the ABSD. This is a waste of resources and artificially inflated demand. That was the reason why the government imposed ABSD on foreigners. If not for the ABSD, we may be facing what London is facing now and with even more empty apartments.
Restricting foreigners ownership is global trend, to repair the damage made by low interest rate.
People do stupid thing because they don't have brain to think of good solution means you also want to follow suit? :doh:
Restricting foreigners ownership is global trend, to repair the damage made by low interest rate.
People do stupid thing because they don't have brain to think of good solution means you also want to follow suit? :doh:
Actually it has got more to do with people doing things for selfish reasons. eg. a small but noisy group of investors who are desperately look for foreigners money to return to help resurrect those properties located on the wrong side of CCR.
The situation is so bad that these owners are already talking about CCR price war with OCR property and also hoping that property market will crash because they are so jealous of those huge profit market people made in MM and OCR segment.
can you see how selfish and sometime stupid human being are right?
The worst measures is the TDSR.. this impacts all owners seeking to repriced or refinance even if you bt yr property years ago and is now retrenched or retired..
You are at the mercy of the banks and subjected to above mkt interest rate as you cannot even repriced due to this tdsr....
MAs policy hit at all.. not only recent property buyers as compared to those colling measures which target new property owners.. only the banks benefits from this unreal interest rate! :doh:
This should be removed...
The worst measures is the TDSR.. this impacts all owners seeking to repriced or refinance even if you bt yr property years ago and is now retrenched or retired..
You are at the mercy of the banks and subjected to above mkt interest rate as you cannot even repriced due to this tdsr....
MAs policy hit at all.. not only recent property buyers as compared to those colling measures which target new property owners.. only the banks benefits from this unreal interest rate! :doh:
This should be removed...
I think it is a great policy. It means that people who have punched above their weight have worn a hat too big for the head. It's still possible to sell now at a high profit for this group.
But I think there could be a slight concession for people seeking to reprice. It's just tough to decide where the line should be.
If policy has been applied across the board and same to everybody, it is fair after all, and TDSR is supposed to protect people from overleveraging. However, current ABSD policy IS NOT! Current ABSD is totally DISCRIMINATORY!
STILL, the ill effect of TDSR is that property sizes become smaller and smaller to make them more "affordable" to get over TSDR! IT IS TIME GOVT ACTS ON THIS Mickey-Mouse-ization of residential properties! These are for people to live in, not Mickey-Mouse! :doh:
The worst measures is the TDSR.. this impacts all owners seeking to repriced or refinance even if you bt yr property years ago and is now retrenched or retired..
You are at the mercy of the banks and subjected to above mkt interest rate as you cannot even repriced due to this tdsr....
MAs policy hit at all.. not only recent property buyers as compared to those colling measures which target new property owners.. only the banks benefits from this unreal interest rate! :doh:
This should be removed...
I think it is a great policy. It means that people who have punched above their weight have worn a hat too big for the head. It's still possible to sell now at a high profit for this group.
But I think there could be a slight concession for people seeking to reprice. It's just tough to decide where the line should be.
They should remove the LTV ceiling for those with multiple properties because with TDSR in place, the earlier LTV measure has become irrelevant.
The worst measures is the TDSR.. this impacts all owners seeking to repriced or refinance even if you bt yr property years ago and is now retrenched or retired..
You are at the mercy of the banks and subjected to above mkt interest rate as you cannot even repriced due to this tdsr....
MAs policy hit at all.. not only recent property buyers as compared to those colling measures which target new property owners.. only the banks benefits from this unreal interest rate! :doh:
This should be removed...
errr.... I doubt many people who bought their properties many years ago are affected by TDSR as prices is probably low.
Anyway, the TDSR criteria is not that strict what.... you affected meh? I am not leh.
Resale HDB prices could be correcting too fast and become unpredictable.
Best crash the hdb. Coz people been whinning abt high hdb price. They argue it's a utility. Hdb should buy back had etc. so best get back to basics with a crash then. Make hdb worthless coz that's what the people wanted anyway. It's just a roof nothing more.
If policy has been applied across the board and same to everybody, it is fair after all, and TDSR is supposed to protect people from overleveraging. However, current ABSD policy IS NOT! Current ABSD is totally DISCRIMINATORY!
STILL, the ill effect of TDSR is that property sizes become smaller and smaller to make them more "affordable" to get over TSDR! IT IS TIME GOVT ACTS ON THIS Mickey-Mouse-ization of residential properties! These are for people to live in, not Mickey-Mouse! :doh:
How dumb can u get. No one point a gun at the people go buy a small unit. They can don't buy and developers can't sell will just stop building a product people don't want to buy. Want to buy still want to complain lol!!!!! Don't like don't buy lah. Kiam gong.
I think it is a great policy. It means that people who have punched above their weight have worn a hat too big for the head. It's still possible to sell now at a high profit for this group.
But I think there could be a slight concession for people seeking to reprice. It's just tough to decide where the line should be.
Tdsr teaches people a lesson not to over leverage .
Yah loh, the way you say is also like saying that the MND & MAS are damn stupid? People want to buy will buy, don't want won't buy, no one point a gun to their head, why implement all the cooling measures like SSD, ABSD, LTV, TDSR, MSR blah blah blah since if developers can't sell because of high property selling price the property price will never go up why need all those cooling measures?! So you kiam gong or MND & MAS kiam gong? :doh:
How dumb can u get. No one point a gun at the people go buy a small unit. They can don't buy and developers can't sell will just stop building a product people don't want to buy. Want to buy still want to complain lol!!!!! Don't like don't buy lah. Kiam gong.
errr.... I doubt many people who bought their properties many years ago are affected by TDSR as prices is probably low.
Anyway, the TDSR criteria is not that strict what.... you affected meh? I am not leh.
Tdsr affect those cash rich retirees from investing in properties. They used to be able to take a loan if they make a downpayment of 40% and show bank statement. They are unable to take any loan now without income. Buying an investment property without taking any loan is not very wise in terms of taxation.
phantom_opera
09-02-14, 14:14
the recent ban SPR for 3y ruling + lower quantum of 25y + TDSR has big impact for those who wanting to sell DBSS @ Tampines :scared-3:
DBSS = Expensive HDB reality suddenly sinks in
Watch out for HDB resale, can be down 10% in a year :eek:
What govt trying to do now is to balance wealth distribution..narrow individual social standing.. So still can create wealth using private/hdb? Think again. Better get entry price correct..
How about PM can only get $1m a year salary? Then all GLC companies CEOs and MNC heads can only get max $1m salary? From top down, while simultaneously implementing min wages of $24k per year in bottom up, the wealth distribution will definitely be narrowed and individual social standing will be narrowed as well? :doh:
What govt trying to do now is to balance wealth distribution..narrow individual social standing.. So still can create wealth using private/hdb? Think again. Better get entry price correct..
Hi all
1. Bank growth is stagnating
2. Developers' suburb play is ending.
3. Developer cannot hold on the luxury properties much longer
Given our gahmen close ties with biz and in fact many GLC involved in properties, the tweaks will come…
ABSD might apply only to the 1st $3m of any property to encourage buying of high end segments….
Clearer LTV guideline where TDSR does not apply….
Regards
Hi all
1. Bank growth is stagnating
2. Developers' suburb play is ending.
3. Developer cannot hold on the luxury properties much longer
Given our gahmen close ties with biz and in fact many GLC involved in properties, the tweaks will come…
ABSD might apply only to the 1st $3m of any property to encourage buying of high end segments….
Clearer LTV guideline where TDSR does not apply….
Regards
Not a good idea. It will send the wrong signals.
Hi all
1. Bank growth is stagnating
2. Developers' suburb play is ending.
3. Developer cannot hold on the luxury properties much longer
Given our gahmen close ties with biz and in fact many GLC involved in properties, the tweaks will come…
ABSD might apply only to the 1st $3m of any property to encourage buying of high end segments….
Clearer LTV guideline where TDSR does not apply….
Regards
imposing ABSD only for the 1st $3m, will be like telling 90% of the citizens that you still need to pay ABSD because you cant afford more than $3m property. This will be a political suicide for the government for sure.
I actually still think that removing ABSD for property within central area might be a better approach because most >$3m property are still located within the central area region.
Hi all
1. Bank growth is stagnating
2. Developers' suburb play is ending.
3. Developer cannot hold on the luxury properties much longer
Given our gahmen close ties with biz and in fact many GLC involved in properties, the tweaks will come…
ABSD might apply only to the 1st $3m of any property to encourage buying of high end segments….
Clearer LTV guideline where TDSR does not apply….
Regards
They need red flag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgqcmmAg-mo
With sg govt strong reserve.. they mass support is much more crucial than hnw investments. Policy has already been tweak for slower growth.
How about PM can only get $1m a year salary? Then all GLC companies CEOs and MNC heads can only get max $1m salary? From top down, while simultaneously implementing min wages of $24k per year in bottom up, the wealth distribution will definitely be narrowed and individual social standing will be narrowed as well? :doh:
So what? Then chicken rice will cost $10 as all cost increase regardless of ones capability or skills. What a fantastic idea u have.
With sg govt strong reserve.. they mass support is much more crucial than hnw investments. Policy has already been tweak for slower growth.
Reserve are finite not a infinite source that will never run out. Policies must be sub stainable.
Yah loh, the way you say is also like saying that the MND & MAS are damn stupid? People want to buy will buy, don't want won't buy, no one point a gun to their head, why implement all the cooling measures like SSD, ABSD, LTV, TDSR, MSR blah blah blah since if developers can't sell because of high property selling price the property price will never go up why need all those cooling measures?! So you kiam gong or MND & MAS kiam gong? :doh:
Coz people like u tai gong buy until broke then kpkb why mas never stop them. Now limit them they still want to buy who's fault. Like that u so smart must well say out law all transaction! :doh:
At a ratio of 1000,000 / 24,000 = 41.67x, that big multiples is not enough to recognise a person for his capability or skills? These people have 3 heads, 6 arms and 6 legs that can do fantastic things 41.67 number of people cannot (using an analogy quoted by Warren Buffet)?
Regardless of whatever, they are just employee! :beats-me-man:
So what? Then chicken rice will cost $10 as all cost increase regardless of ones capability or skills. What a fantastic idea u have.
At a ratio of 1000,000 / 24,000 = 41.67x, that big multiples is not enough to recognise a person for his capability or skills? These people have 3 heads, 6 arms and 6 legs that can do fantastic things 41.67 number of people cannot (using an analogy quoted by Warren Buffet)?
Regardless of whatever, they are just employee! :beats-me-man:
So you are saying people with no skills should have no jobs?
I guess should tax u more to feed those who can't get job coz no skills.
People should be adequately paid for doing an honest job, and hence need protection with min wages like what govt is implementing for cleaners now so that these workers will not be exploited by unscrupulous business owners like you! :doh:
Next they are targeting min wages for security guards!
Next they are targeting min wages for service staffs!
Soon, we will see min wages for almost all professions!
If govt don't think chicken rice at $10 is a problem, why are you complaining? You think you are smarter than them?! :tongue3:
So you are saying people with no skills should have no jobs?
I guess should tax u more to feed those who can't get job coz no skills.
People should be adequately paid for doing an honest job, and hence need protection with min wages like what govt is implementing for cleaners now so that these workers will not be exploited by unscrupulous business owners like you! :doh:
Next they are targeting min wages for security guards!
Next they are targeting min wages for service staffs!
Soon, we will see min wages for almost all professions!
If govt don't think chicken rice at $10 is a problem, why are you complaining? You think you are smarter than them?! tongue3:
So those who's skill can't be worth $2000 a mth get replaced with processed. How? Tax ur more to feed them? At least now no skills can still take lower paying jobs to get by.
So u are saying $10 chicken rice is ok?
So what the pay become 2000 pm. When basic cost all inflate becoz of that. Lppl. Feel good for how long before kpkb n min wage need to be 3k?
Btw government never say $10 chicken rice is ok. They say if u want $10 chicken rice the chicken rice need to be more quality no just plane old chicken rice.
Get it through ur numb skull.
If you want to cow-pay cow-bull, please take it out with the Government and not me! I didn't implement min wages for cleaners and security guards! It is the govt! Soon they will implement min wages for retail staffs as well!
Since you are the one saying introducing min wages will result in chicken rice raising to $10, please raise your issue with the govt! :tongue3:
But I doubt you dare to raise with the govt, because you are just No Action Talk Only with no balls in front of the authority and only dare to cpcb and attack other forumers here! :doh:
So those who's skill can't be worth $2000 a mth get replaced with processed. How? Tax ur more to feed them? At least now no skills can still take lower paying jobs to get by.
So u are saying $10 chicken rice is ok?
So what the pay become 2000 pm. When basic cost all inflate becoz of that. Lppl. Feel good for how long before kpkb n min wage need to be 3k?
People should be adequately paid for doing an honest job, and hence need protection with min wages like what govt is implementing for cleaners now so that these workers will not be exploited by unscrupulous business owners like you! :doh:
Next they are targeting min wages for security guards!
Next they are targeting min wages for service staffs!
Soon, we will see min wages for almost all professions!
If govt don't think chicken rice at $10 is a problem, why are you complaining? You think you are smarter than them?! :tongue3:
You are the one saying chicken rice will go to $10 if min wages are implemented (just like many business owners)!
However, govt don't give a hood about what these business owners like you are saying and go ahead to implement min wages for cleaners anyway, so I deduce that they don't think chicken rice will go to $10 or it is Ok since the boat for all the poor has been lifted! Furthermore, as you said, if chicken rice can go to $10, won't it be of higher quality and high standard? What is the problem? I believe you are the KIAM GONG NUMB SKULL, not the govt you are complaining about for implementing min wages! :tongue3:
Oh I forgot, you don't even dare to admit that you are criticising the govt for implementing min wages because you got no balls! So Are you criticising min wages? Admit or deny it! :tongue3:
Btw government never say $10 chicken rice is ok. They say if u want $10 chicken rice the chicken rice need to be more quality no just plane old chicken rice.
Get it through ur numb skull.
If you want to cow-pay cow-bull, please take it out with the Government and not me! I didn't implement min wages for cleaners and security guards! It is the govt! Soon they will implement min wages for retail staffs as well!
Since you are the one saying introducing min wages will result in chicken rice raising to $10, please raise your issue with the govt! :tongue3:
But I doubt you dare to raise with the govt, because you are just No Action Talk Only with no balls in front of the authority and only dare to cpcb and attack other forumers here! :doh:
that is not min wage. its progressive wage. u need to skill up to get to do more. ur dumb min wage is a 1 size fit all. no need improve skills also must pay 2K per mth.
u trying to bluff who?
So like that say the pang kopi aunty who suddenly see bay happy pay become $2000 but next day her boss tell her go back lar kopi coz the stall cannot afford to pay her $2000 pm. Then this aunty how?
Many are part time house wifes who need some income to supplement their household. Min wage don't give them $. they straight away no job. and at the same time overall cost goes up. the aunty better off?
UR MIN WAGE DONT WORK! HAI LANG more like it.!
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Next u will be screaming Dole Dole Dole! must have Dole! :banghead::banghead::banghead:
Oh, now I know that min wage for cleaners you have disguised it as "progressive wage"? :banghead:
So, how is it progressive when the businesses will need to pay $1k per month minimum wage to cleaners anyway? :rolleyes:
Please get your fact right:
Min wage for cleaners are implemented by Singapore govt, not me!
Now you telling Singapore GOVERNMENT that
"UR MIN WAGE DONT WORK! HAI LANG more like it.!" :banghead::banghead::banghead:" :tsk-tsk:
that is not min wage. its progressive wage. u need to skill up to get to do more. ur dumb min wage is a 1 size fit all. no need improve skills also must pay 2K per mth.
u trying to bluff who?
So like that say the pang kopi aunty who suddenly see bay happy pay become $2000 but next day her boss tell her go back lar kopi coz the stall cannot afford to pay her $2000 pm. Then this aunty how?
Many are part time house wifes who need some income to supplement their household. Min wage don't give them $. they straight away no job. and at the same time overall cost goes up. the aunty better off?
UR MIN WAGE DONT WORK! HAI LANG more like it.!
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Next u will be screaming Dole Dole Dole! must have Dole! :banghead::banghead::banghead:
If you want to cow-pay cow-bull, please take it out with the Government and not me! I didn't implement min wages for cleaners and security guards! It is the govt! Soon they will implement min wages for retail staffs as well!
Since you are the one saying introducing min wages will result in chicken rice raising to $10, please raise your issue with the govt! :tongue3:
But I doubt you dare to raise with the govt, because you are just No Action Talk Only with no balls in front of the authority and only dare to cpcb and attack other forumers here! :doh:
Oh, now I know that min wage for cleaners you have disguised it as "progressive wage"? :banghead:
So, how is it progressive when the businesses will need to pay $1k per month minimum wage to cleaners anyway? :rolleyes:
Please get your fact right:
Min wage for cleaners are implemented by Singapore govt, not me!
Now you telling Singapore GOVERNMENT that
"UR MIN WAGE DONT WORK! HAI LANG more like it.!" :banghead::banghead::banghead:" :tsk-tsk:
Well if u cannot understand what is explained by the fact that cleaners are operating machines and skilling up. there are so much i can explain to a intellectually challenged.
ITS NOT MIN WAGE. if u cannot tell the diff then too bad. Do I care ? :doh::doh::doh:
thomastansb
10-02-14, 09:16
That would be good. HDB should drop 30 to 50%.
the recent ban SPR for 3y ruling + lower quantum of 25y + TDSR has big impact for those who wanting to sell DBSS @ Tampines :scared-3:
DBSS = Expensive HDB reality suddenly sinks in
Watch out for HDB resale, can be down 10% in a year :eek:
We must agree the CM are taking it hit now.. Slowly the demand is drying up (I know there are a lot of ready buyer with no ready cash to buy or is unable to get loan. I don't classified them as demand)
OK. People can go concentrate on their jobs and other investments instead of dreaming to get rich quick on property.
OK. People can go concentrate on their jobs and other investments instead of dreaming to get rich quick on property.
With all these cooling measures, people just have to go back to traditional way of generating wealth.
For those who have already accumulated a few properties to collect rental, just be contented and enjoy a carefree retirement life. Those who have not, just buy the cheapest home and then work hard in your career to save up.
Having said that, I do think the government should remove some CMs is selective area to promote some investment activities or else, many agents will become taxi drivers, construction industry will stop paying bonus, banks and law firms might even start retrenching staffs.
Buyers should not be expecting capital appreciation when buying property now..
phantom_opera
10-02-14, 09:55
if CDL or CAPL share price continues to weaken then
"Houston we have a problem"
With all these cooling measures, people just have to go back to traditional way of generating wealth.
For those who have already accumulated a few properties to collect rental, just be contented and enjoy a carefree retirement life. Those who have not, just buy the cheapest home and then work hard in your career to save up.
Having said that, I do think the government should remove some CMs is selective area to promote some investment activities or else, many agents will become taxi drivers, construction industry will stop paying bonus, banks and law firms might even start retrenching staffs.
The problem is developers are still bidding aggressively for GLS.
if CDL or CAPL share price continues to weaken then
"Houston we have a problem"
Ocbc looks attractive now too.
OK. People can go concentrate on their jobs and other investments instead of dreaming to get rich quick on property.
Since the implementation of 4years ssd and 60%ltv, i doubt there are still speculators hoping to make quick bucks.
And there is nothing wrong to dream of retiring with few investment properties for passive income. When there is a dream, there is a will.
The problem is developers are still bidding aggressively for GLS.
Then it's a grave they are digging for themselves. Don't lobby the Govt to reduce or remove the cooling measures. Just bid realistically for GLS. It is in part the developers to blame for driving prices upwards.
Then it's a grave they are digging for themselves. Don't lobby the Govt to reduce or remove the cooling measures. Just bid realistically for GLS. It is in part the developers to blame for driving prices upwards.
Yes, so i do not expect govt to tweak any CM in near future until there is a significant drop of interest in GLS bidding.
Then it's a grave they are digging for themselves. Don't lobby the Govt to reduce or remove the cooling measures. Just bid realistically for GLS. It is in part the developers to blame for driving prices upwards.
takes two hands to clap. when the developers bid at a realistic price that's a tad low, the government refuses to sell the land parcel. that fateful act sent a wrong signal to developers.
With all these cooling measures, people just have to go back to traditional way of generating wealth.
For those who have already accumulated a few properties to collect rental, just be contented and enjoy a carefree retirement life. Those who have not, just buy the cheapest home and then work hard in your career to save up.
Having said that, I do think the government should remove some CMs is selective area to promote some investment activities or else, many agents will become taxi drivers, construction industry will stop paying bonus, banks and law firms might even start retrenching staffs.
cannot care free lah. those who never accumulated all green eye. want the whole system to reset for their favor.
Developer is just like normal bizman. Expect govt to save them when bankrupt? Quiet when making profit?
Car industry already got the impact from govt measure and close shop.
takes two hands to clap. when the developers bid at a realistic price that's a tad low, the government refuses to sell the land parcel. that fateful act sent a wrong signal to developers.
Too bad. The developers also have to send a signal back to govt. not to be so greedy.
The problem is developers are still bidding aggressively for GLS.
Developers dont really have a choice, as their core business is selling property. If they dont bid and sell, how are they going to pay for their staffs salary?
If government is going charge you the air you breath, you cant just stop breathing right?
Amber Woods
10-02-14, 10:35
takes two hands to clap. when the developers bid at a realistic price that's a tad low, the government refuses to sell the land parcel. that fateful act sent a wrong signal to developers.
The government's reserve price is reasonable low if the past bidding exercises suggest. Past biddings for RESIDENTIAL lands had shown that the final prices bided were some 40% to 60% higher than reserved prices.
There was only a case of a piece of COMMERCIAL land at Paya Lebar which the government rejected the highest bid because it was below its reserved. Obviously, developers under-estimated the future potential of Paya Lebar regional centre than or they were just simply "opportunist bids" during uncertain times.
The government's reserve price is reasonable low if the past bidding exercises suggest. Past biddings for RESIDENTIAL lands had shown that the final prices bided were some 40% to 60% higher than reserved prices.
There was only a case of a piece of COMMERCIAL land at Paya Lebar which the government rejected the highest bid because it was below its reserved. Obviously, developers under-estimated the future potential of Paya Lebar regional centre than or they were just simply "opportunist bids" during uncertain times.
that's the event, which in my personal opinion, sent a wrong signal to the industry. if bids are rejected because they are deemed "opportunistic", then i liken it to "having a cake in your hand and eating it at the same time"
it's freaking crazy for URA to imply that only (ever) increasing bids are considered "realistic"
Amber Woods
10-02-14, 11:49
that's the event, which in my personal opinion, sent a wrong signal to the industry. if bids are rejected because they are deemed "opportunistic", then i liken it to "having a cake in your hand and eating it at the same time"
it's freaking crazy for URA to imply that only (ever) increasing bids are considered "realistic"
I bet to differ. If the reserve price is already low in the first place, developer with good foresight and courage should buy and not try putting in unrealistic low bids. In this particular case, I think the developers actually "miss the boat" and cry foul later when their bids were rejected.
I bet to differ. If the reserve price is already low in the first place, developer with good foresight and courage should buy and not try putting in unrealistic low bids. In this particular case, I think the developers actually "miss the boat" and cry foul later when their bids were rejected.
sorry but the reserve price isn't transparent - there is no benchmark except market valuation to be used. similary, a developer with good foresight may also factor in future price weakenings into its bid. that's i state it's pure madness when URA considers (ever) increasing bids as realistic. can't future prices be lower than current standards?
Amber Woods
10-02-14, 12:23
sorry but the reserve price isn't transparent - there is no benchmark except market valuation to be used. similary, a developer with good foresight may also factor in future price weakenings into its bid. that's i state it's pure madness when URA considers (ever) increasing bids as realistic. can't future prices be lower than current standards?
We need to understand that URA operates an open tender system. There is nothing to stop any developers from putting in unrealistic low bids in the tender system.
So during a time when the market turns sour, the tender still needs to go on. If developers are fearful of the future, they could either not participate in the tender or "tikam" and put in very low bids. Even if their low bids were accepted, they are still safe with the purchase. This is where URA could not stop such "opportunist bids" in a public tender. Therefore, the reserve price system works in this case.
There were past instances when URA awarded tenders even when prices were below its reserve price. According to URA, they decided to award the tenders to the highest bidders even though their prices were below reserve price because their bids were "serious and realistic". Yes. there is certain amount of judgement call here and URA chief valuer is tasked to make the call.
There is no 100% full proof system but I think URA was right not to award tender if the prices are consider "tikam" prices. This is to safe guard our national interest.
We need to understand that URA operates an open tender system. There is nothing to stop any developers from putting in unrealistic low bids in the tender system.
So during a time when the market turns sour, the tender still needs to go on. If developers are fearful of the future, they could either not participate in the tender or "tikam" and put in very low bids. Even if their low bids were accepted, they are still safe with the purchase. This is where URA could not stop such "opportunist bids" in a public tender. Therefore, the reserve price system works in this case.
There were past instances when URA awarded tenders even when prices were below its reserve price. According to URA, they decided to award the tenders to the highest bidders even though their prices were below reserve price because their bids were "serious and realistic". Yes. there is certain amount of judgement call here and URA chief valuer is tasked to make the call.
There is no 100% full proof system but I think URA was right not to award tender if the prices are consider "tikam" prices. This is to safe guard our national interest.
i'm not debating the mechanics of the tender system. i am pointing out it isn't just the developers pushing up land prices. and by your latest post, thanks for reinforcing my point that the government is partly responsible too.
Amber Woods
10-02-14, 12:52
i'm not debating the mechanics of the tender system. i am pointing out it isn't just the developers pushing up land prices. and by your latest post, thanks for reinforcing my point that the government is partly responsible too.
The URA as an organ of the government is responsible for the integrity of the tender system. A responsible government will also "intervene" the market if the market is not working efficiently as in the case discussed and also the real estate market which is the most inefficient of all markets. That is my point.
Cleaners operate very advance machines that we only have now? Why they can't skill up to learn to operate those same some old machinery after so many years? Why need to wait till min wage for cleaners implemented then suddenly they can learn to operate these old machinery?
If you can't explain, don't! Don't tell all those lies!
And, you don't even have balls to admit that you are complaining about the govt's min wages for cleaners after saying:
"UR MIN WAGE DONT WORK! HAI LANG more like it.!
:banghead::banghead::banghead:"
Ok ok, min wages for cleaners you like to call it "progressive wage", but that is really little difference, just like I call you a DONKEY but you said No, you are a MULE! Ok ok, mule has DONKEY blood and is usually importent, suit you too! :tongue3:
Well if u cannot understand what is explained by the fact that cleaners are operating machines and skilling up. there are so much i can explain to a intellectually challenged.
ITS NOT MIN WAGE. if u cannot tell the diff then too bad. Do I care ? :doh::doh::doh:
that is not min wage. its progressive wage. u need to skill up to get to do more. ur dumb min wage is a 1 size fit all. no need improve skills also must pay 2K per mth.
u trying to bluff who?
So like that say the pang kopi aunty who suddenly see bay happy pay become $2000 but next day her boss tell her go back lar kopi coz the stall cannot afford to pay her $2000 pm. Then this aunty how?
Many are part time house wifes who need some income to supplement their household. Min wage don't give them $. they straight away no job. and at the same time overall cost goes up. the aunty better off?
UR MIN WAGE DONT WORK! HAI LANG more like it.!
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Next u will be screaming Dole Dole Dole! must have Dole! :banghead::banghead::banghead:
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