View Full Version : Call to relax some rules as property market wanes
princess_morbucks
11-01-14, 07:59
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/premium/top-stories/call-relax-some-rules-property-market-wanes-20140111
THE government should relax some of its property-cooling measures as demand for real estate wanes.
This was the view of Getty Goh, director at Ascendant Assets, who felt this was necessary given "the lacklustre property market" and the likelihood that interest rates will rise this year and the next.
Speaking at the 12th Singapore Chinese Chamber of Commerce and Industry-Business Times (SCCCI-BT) Business Outlook Forum yesterday, Mr Goh said the government should consider repealing the Seller Stamp Duty (SSD) for residential properties introduced in January 2011, because sellers who are keen to dispose their properties may find themselves tied down by it.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sites/businesstimes.com.sg/files/imagecache/image_300x200/BT_20140111_MSLOOK11_911323.jpg
'Before TDSR came in, all of these owners could simply refinance with another bank, but now because of TDSR, all of them are now stuck as they cannot go to another bank right now and refinance in the event that they own two or three properties.'
Getty Goh
Wunderkind
11-01-14, 08:17
This makes sense. Instead of increasing land sales, the govt should look to relaxing the SSD to support the supply side. Land sales are bid at higher and higher prices which in turn means that the price of property will have to be kept high. Increasing supply through land sales does not work as developers are flushed with cash. In a rising interest rate environment , those who have holding power can hold on to their property while those who cannot can sell . The dynamics will create its market equilibrium given the fact that the property supply is now more than the demand.
Removing SSD will accelerate the drop and turn into avanlanche if things turn awry and everyone start throwing.
Wunderkind
11-01-14, 09:28
Removing SSD will accelerate the drop and turn into avanlanche if things turn awry and everyone start throwing.
Unless there is a large pool of desperate sellers and no buyers. The underlying demand is still strong as Singapore's economy is still humming along. Singaporeans like to invest in property. That is a fact. So how can the market stabilizes if land sales continue to be sold at record bid price? Let the real sellers and real buyers engage in the market dynamics.
Can consider imposing cooling measure on foreign developer.
Effects of cooling measures have just started no long ago, highly unlikely to be remove so soon.
Not forgetting current prices are still 60% above 2009 peak..
Actually the one who are suffering most in this situation are the property agents, I am not sure how many will have to force sell their property if incomes dries up. And I think this could be the one reason why government might have to reverse some of the cooling measures.
Who is this Getty Goh ?
SSD can stay forever. This is to discourage flipping and pty speculative trading. Other countries have as long as 15yrs of seller "fees". About TDSR, if some one did not do proper financial planning, it is not the gov's fault.
Dun think gov will do anything. If ever, the 1st CM to be tweaked is ABSD. That is pure draconian and direct market intervention to artificially reduce demand.
Removing foreigners ABSD for Central Area of CCR. That to me is the best way forward.
a) Government get to sell prime land along Marina Bay
b) Property agents get to sell property
c) Foreigners get to buy prime property in Singapore
Agree that it is ABSD that must go, because it is unfair and biased policies against PRs and foreigners, and "undemocratic". :o
Why should PRs be treated differently from purchasing goods (in this case "private properties") that are sold at market price? :beats-me-man:
Who is this Getty Goh ?
SSD can stay forever. This is to discourage flipping and pty speculative trading. Other countries have as long as 15yrs of seller "fees". About TDSR, if some one did not do proper financial planning, it is not the gov's fault.
Dun think gov will do anything. If ever, the 1st CM to be tweaked is ABSD. That is pure draconian and direct market intervention to artificially reduce demand.
Removing SSD will only benefit property agents as it will open flood gate for resale units to flood the market.
Agree that it is ABSD that must go, because it is unfair and biased policies against PRs and foreigners, and "undemocratic". :o
Why should PRs be treated differently from purchasing goods (in this case "private properties") that are sold at market price? :beats-me-man:
hmmm i tend to disagree on the PR portion. I think there s a need to create a distinction between singaporean and PRs, in part because the government was dolling out PRs like toilet paper few years ago.
It was so easy to get, foreigners were simply applying for PR AND stopping at that (not going further for citizenship status to cement their commitment to singapore) just to gain the associated advantages for being a PR in singapore (which at that time did not very clear distinctions from being a singaporean). So we had plenty of PRs buying property, flipping them, making money, making use of the other facilities, etc than going overseas to the States, London etc to further themselves than giving up Singaporean PR eventually. Being a Singaporean PR should be a privilege, not a passport to better riches elsewhere.
princess_morbucks
11-01-14, 10:03
Who is this Getty Goh ?
SSD can stay forever. This is to discourage flipping and pty speculative trading. Other countries have as long as 15yrs of seller "fees". About TDSR, if some one did not do proper financial planning, it is not the gov's fault.
Dun think gov will do anything. If ever, the 1st CM to be tweaked is ABSD. That is pure draconian and direct market intervention to artificially reduce demand.
I agree with you that if ever any CM will be tweaked it will be ABSD.
Yes, I also don't mind if SSD continues.
TDSR will be permanent.
hmmm i tend to disagree on the PR portion. I think there s a need to create a distinction between singaporean and PRs, in part because the government was dolling out PRs like toilet paper few years ago.
It was so easy to get, foreigners were simply applying for PR AND stopping at that (not going further for citizenship status to cement their commitment to singapore) just to gain the associated advantages for being a PR in singapore (which at that time did not very clear distinctions from being a singaporean). So we had plenty of PRs buying property, flipping them, making money, making use of the other facilities, etc than going overseas to the States, London etc to further themselves than giving up Singaporean PR eventually. Being a Singaporean PR should be a privilege, not a passport to better riches elsewhere.
The effect of the CM on PR buying HDB will be temporary, after 3 years, they will flood the market. So I reckon 2016/7 will be the start of another up cycle.
No need cms on private condo. Private condo should be a free market. What govt should do is cms on HDB and resale HDB. Alot of those interviewed said HDB is not for profit so hdb should back to basic. Buy $300k sell $300k.
princess_morbucks
11-01-14, 10:35
No need cms on private condo. Private condo should be a free market. What govt should do is cms on HDB and resale HDB. Alot of those interviewed said HDB is not for profit so hdb should back to basic. Buy $300k sell $300k.
CMs for private property is to cushion the fall in case of a downturn.
It is to reduce the impact of a property bubble should a downturn occur.
SG Govt will basically mirror what HK does. Once HK reduces the Buyers Stamp Duty for foreigners, you can expect SG to follow suit at similar rate too.
Other than that, I also don't see any measures being removed any time soon. Govt is testing waters now, using supply side measures first.
All cms for private condo should be removed just TDSR remain is enough. TDSR should remain because it is the best cm. All other cms should be removed.
walkthetiger
11-01-14, 11:25
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/premium/top-stories/call-relax-some-rules-property-market-wanes-20140111
THE government should relax some of its property-cooling measures as demand for real estate wanes.
This was the view of Getty Goh, director at Ascendant Assets, who felt this was necessary given "the lacklustre property market" and the likelihood that interest rates will rise this year and the next.
Speaking at the 12th Singapore Chinese Chamber of Commerce and Industry-Business Times (SCCCI-BT) Business Outlook Forum yesterday, Mr Goh said the government should consider repealing the Seller Stamp Duty (SSD) for residential properties introduced in January 2011, because sellers who are keen to dispose their properties may find themselves tied down by it.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sites/businesstimes.com.sg/files/imagecache/image_300x200/BT_20140111_MSLOOK11_911323.jpg
'Before TDSR came in, all of these owners could simply refinance with another bank, but now because of TDSR, all of them are now stuck as they cannot go to another bank right now and refinance in the event that they own two or three properties.'
Getty Goh
I do hope gov here start thinking about how to remove the CMs smoothly and gradually; as eventually they will need to. But, I don’t think this will not come so soon.
It appears only the investors attempting to build a case to show gov here that market is bad enough...nice try by publishing and presenting all sort of ideas, views and figures everywhere to prove…. But how much does current price dropped from the peak, just read the overall index…not much I would say.
The interest rate will increase because many owners will find it difficult to refinance due to TDSR restriction. Hence, govt should consider those bought before the TDSR rules should allow to refinance without restricting them to the TDSR rules.
Many banks will start to take advantage of such situation to increase interest rate. If govt wants to reduce the risk of property bubbles, they should look into this area unless they are supporting banks to increase interest rate and force owners to pay more because they cannot refinance.
The interest rate will increase because many owners will find it difficult to refinance due to TDSR restriction. Hence, govt should consider those bought before the TDSR rules should allow to refinance without restricting them to the TDSR rules.
Many banks will start to take advantage of such situation to increase interest rate. If govt wants to reduce the risk of property bubbles, they should look into this area unless they are supporting banks to increase interest rate and force owners to pay more because they cannot refinance.
Now you can see, a lot of people have no chance of refinancing now.. With TDSR and the maximum year tenure, you will have no chance of refinancing and have to stick to the original loan package. You will have no chance of changing your package or bank and will be at the mercy of the banks.
Now that HDB have given BTO to even second timers.. This will mean a lot of people will have to sell existing unit (HDB or PC) when BTO reach TOP.. And look at the amount of EC, mostly are upgraders. This will mean a lot of them will have to sell exiting unit (HDB or PC) when the EC reach TOP.. So for the next few years as more and more BTO and EC TOP, you can really see a lot of unit out for fire sales which I think will be mostly HDB.. HDB resales market will be turning ugly...
And they kill off most of the demand for the resale HDB, single able to get BTO, PR have to wait 3 years to buy HDB, first time couple all getting BTO easily now, so they can forget about resale market..
For the remaining demand, CM such as maximum of tenure of 25 years, MSR of 30% really limit the price of the HDB that one can buy as they cannot loan much now..
There is always bad n good times when buying private properties. Never heard of any sellers ask for cooling measure in a bull markets..
Now you can see, a lot of people have no chance of refinancing now.. With TDSR and the maximum year tenure, you will have no chance of refinancing and have to stick to the original loan package. You will have no chance of changing your package or bank and will be at the mercy of the banks.
Now that HDB have given BTO to even second timers.. This will mean a lot of people will have to sell existing unit (HDB or PC) when BTO reach TOP.. And look at the amount of EC, mostly are upgraders. This will mean a lot of them will have to sell exiting unit (HDB or PC) when the EC reach TOP.. So for the next few years as more and more BTO and EC TOP, you can really see a lot of unit out for fire sales which I think will be mostly HDB.. HDB resales market will be turning ugly...
And they kill off most of the demand for the resale HDB, single able to get BTO, PR have to wait 3 years to buy HDB, first time couple all getting BTO easily now, so they can forget about resale market..
For the remaining demand, CM such as maximum of tenure of 25 years, MSR of 30% really limit the price of the HDB that one can buy as they cannot loan much now..
I fully agree. Most PC owners will hold on to their properties since the cost of replacement is so high with all the Buyer/ seller tax etc. But when they hold on their properties, they are at the mercy of the banks since refinancing is so tough at today's environment.
Govt will remove CMs eventually but no so soon. CM should apply to HDB and perhaps remove some CMs for PC since it is private.
Next election they might lose a few more seats!
Many frustrated investors, genuine buyers n sellers out there directly affected by all these cm..
Next election they might lose a few more seats!
Many frustrated investors, genuine buyers n sellers out there directly affected by all these cm..
i doubt so. Remember one of the major bugbears for the last election was rising property prices. Now the government has effectively stemmed it. Private property owners only consist of what 20%? And nobody s going to give a hoot about frustrated investors. Caveat emptor.
Actually if you ask me i m glad hdb resale prices are coming down. As i ve said many times, hdbs are meant to be just a basic roof over your head, not a speculative tool. One cannot buy a hdb assuming prices will only go up and confirm guarantee upgrade on MOP. Its just wrong.
I would want them to relax the TDSR and Loan tenure to benefit those in their 40s onwards who want to downgrade or swap to another property using at least 30yrs loan.
But if they do that, the property market have no chance of cooling. it will come back alive again. lol.
I would want them to relax the TDSR and Loan tenure to benefit those in their 40s onwards who want to downgrade or swap to another property using at least 30yrs loan.
But if they do that, the property market have no chance of cooling. it will come back alive again. lol.
you re right. There s simply too much liquidity on the sidelines. Once the CMs are lifted people will chiong in. They re using "simple" economic measures in this case. There will come a time when it will be ok to lift the measures. But the time is not now
MSR/ TDSR will be the tools govt use to bring down prices. This would benefit the buyers. Past few yrs sellers had been sitting on huge gain.
Who is this Getty Goh ?
He was from MINDEF
puffer_fish
11-01-14, 15:24
Best is status quo for another 1 year, needs more time to look around
How about take out the ADSD for 1st timer PR & fore, 2nd ppt for Sporean, but not MSR/ TDSR. Who still can afford or want to upgrade then they can buy lor.
removing ABSD for PR or foreigner on island wide basis will be political -suicide for the government, the best way forward is to carve-out cental area of CCR for foreigners and PR participation.
star said it very well: Private properties are private transactions, and they are sold at open market prices. Why should govt ensure that the citizens get to buy private properties cheap cheap? You expect govt to ensure every citizen can afford private properties? Or you mixed up HDB flats with private properties?
Well well, HDB flats is the segment controlled by govt using land acquired cheaply using National Development Act and hence it is govt's job to ensure that they are cheap, and is the segment that needs a lot of Cooling Measures but govt didn't introduce fast enough and strong enough. Private properties are open market and should be left to market forces but strangely cooling measures are much swifter and stronger than HDB flats! By applying inappropriate CMs on private condos, it is like artificially surpressing private condos so that foreigners and PRs can buy cheap cheap and it is a raid of national reserves when govt cannot sell GLS at a better price.
hmmm i tend to disagree on the PR portion. I think there s a need to create a distinction between singaporean and PRs, in part because the government was dolling out PRs like toilet paper few years ago.
It was so easy to get, foreigners were simply applying for PR AND stopping at that (not going further for citizenship status to cement their commitment to singapore) just to gain the associated advantages for being a PR in singapore (which at that time did not very clear distinctions from being a singaporean). So we had plenty of PRs buying property, flipping them, making money, making use of the other facilities, etc than going overseas to the States, London etc to further themselves than giving up Singaporean PR eventually. Being a Singaporean PR should be a privilege, not a passport to better riches elsewhere.
No need cms on private condo. Private condo should be a free market. What govt should do is cms on HDB and resale HDB. Alot of those interviewed said HDB is not for profit so hdb should back to basic. Buy $300k sell $300k.
With all d cooling measures / interest rate hike, it will be good for multi properties owners/ developers be pressured to let go some units (supply) to the buyers according to tdsr/msr.
Wunderkind
11-01-14, 19:30
It is clear that the government has the means within its disposal to revive a moribund property market. The timing of the measures to bring life back to the market will depend on the state of the property market.
However, I find it hard to believe that the government is "sadistic" That they want to see "pain" first for those who have invested in the market, and will likely be facing difficulty of refinancing their loan in a rising interest rate environment due to TDSR and SSD.
It will be politically unwise not to do something to alleviate the difficulties. The pendulum of the current housing policy may just have swung a bit too far left compared to the earlier Mah's policy.
Once the property buyers sentiment have been badly dented, just like the aftermath of 1997, whatever the govt want to do by then will be too late and useless (that is to say, govt has no ability to revive the property market by then). It took 8 long years before the property market start to recover by 2005. History is our guide...................... :doh:
It is clear that the government has the means within its disposal to revive a moribund property market. The timing of the measures to bring life back to the market will depend on the state of the property market.
However, I find it hard to believe that the government is "sadistic" That they want to see "pain" first for those who have invested in the market, and will likely be facing difficulty of refinancing their loan in a rising interest rate environment due to TDSR and SSD.
It will be politically unwise not to do something to alleviate the difficulties. The pendulum of the current housing policy may just have swung a bit too far left compared to the earlier Mah's policy.
walkthetiger
11-01-14, 19:44
star said it very well: Private properties are private transactions, and they are sold at open market prices. Why should govt ensure that the citizens get to buy private properties cheap cheap? You expect govt to ensure every citizen can afford private properties? Or you mixed up HDB flats with private properties?
Well well, HDB flats is the segment controlled by govt using land acquired cheaply using National Development Act and hence it is govt's job to ensure that they are cheap, and is the segment that needs a lot of Cooling Measures but govt didn't introduce fast enough and strong enough. Private properties are open market and should be left to market forces but strangely cooling measures are much swifter and stronger than HDB flats! By applying inappropriate CMs on private condos, it is like artificially surpressing private condos so that foreigners and PRs can buy cheap cheap and it is a raid of national reserves when govt cannot sell GLS at a better price.
Gov here did not help citizens buy private properties cheap. They have just put up a temporary wall to block the money pumping in the market, cool everything down a while to pleased the common folks and prepare for next election.
What you say doesn't make any sense.
Cool private properties to please common folks?
If what you say is true, then they should heat up HDB flat prices more to all above $1m to please the 85% of HDB flats' owners? :doh:
Gov here did not help citizens buy private properties cheap. They have just put up a temporary wall to block the money pumping in the market, cool everything down a while to please the common folks and prepare for next election.
A man loss might be another person gain. Not forgetting that there are those hogging a few properties. Market can change from bull to bear and they should be aware of the risks.
walkthetiger
11-01-14, 19:51
Once the property buyers sentiment have been badly dented, just like the aftermath of 1997, whatever the govt want to do by then will be too late and useless (that is to say, govt has no ability to revive the property market by then). It took 8 long years before the property market start to recover by 2005. History is our guide...................... :doh:
Agree...they are always slow and steady........history will repeat, likely this time again, I feel it strongly......
walkthetiger
11-01-14, 20:02
What you say doesn't make any sense.
Cool private properties to please common folks?
If what you say is true, then they should heat up HDB flat prices more to all above $1m to please the 85% of HDB flats' owners? :doh:
Let say pushing all HBD above $1m, the young ones will be working like a slave to buy a house.
I have seen lot of common folks dumping their huge savings into the private market in recent years.... gov is doing the so called "protecting" for these people from overleverage….It is a double edged sword.
Again, it is not govt's job to protect people from over-leverage or invest wrongly and lose money or put too much money in properties etc.
Private properties are open market transactions, and govt should not artificially manipulate it. Govt's job is to regulate the banks and ensure banks don't anyhow speculate and loan out recklessly. MSR, TDSR has their purpose, although I would not agree with how TDSR is calculated because it is biased against people who have assets but no active incomes. However, SSD, ABSD, TDSR do not make sense.
In the first instance, you say they are introducing private properties Cooling Measures to prepare for election.
If this is true, then they should push up HDB flats prices all to above $1m, since 85% of citizens already own their HDB flats and majority will be very happy with new-found richness, the young ones who don't have HDB flats only make up small figure and will not affect election outcome.
Let say pushing all HBD above $1m, the young ones will be working like a slave to buy a house.
I have seen lot of common folks dumping their huge savings into the private market in recent years.... gov is doing the so called "protecting" for these people from overleverage….It is a double edged sword.
Removing SSD retrospectively will accelerate the correction I reckon, but if TDSR is taken out, the rally will be on…
Market just started consolidating and people are calling for an unwinding. Heh.
Again, it is not govt's job to protect people from over-leverage or invest wrongly and lose money or put too much money in properties etc.
Private properties are open market transactions, and govt should not artificially manipulate it. Govt's job is to regulate the banks and ensure banks don't anyhow speculate and loan out recklessly. MSR, TDSR has their purpose, although I would not agree with how TDSR is calculated because it is biased against people who have assets but no active incomes. However, SSD, ABSD, TDSR do not make sense.
In the first instance, you say they are introducing private properties Cooling Measures to prepare for election.
If this is true, then they should push up HDB flats prices all to above $1m, since 85% of citizens already own their HDB flats and majority will be very happy with new-found richness, the young ones who don't have HDB flats only make up small figure and will not affect election outcome.
It only goes to show how little you know about how Singapore government run this county and how short sighted you are when come to real estate. Perhaps it could be due to the fact that CCR property has not doing well over the past 5 years hence guys like you getting a little desperate and crazy.
You said that property should be free for all and government should not interfere. Have you ever asked yourself how much money does the government collect every year from government land sale. And after collecting so many billions from GLS, should property bubble burst, who do you think the Singaporeans and opposition is going to blame for inaction.
Temasek and GIC are very good representation of how Singapore government runs this country, they are not in the business of high risk high returns, they are more interested in moderate growth and consistent returns.
Plus Singapore being a financial hub for SE Asia, what do you think will be the consequence if Singapore property market would to suddenly suffer a major correction? How is this going to help the overall economic and Singapore status as a gold standard financial hub.
Perhaps you should get out of your well one of these days to see the bigger picture.
Remove absd for first time buyer of whatever nationality, that will encourage investors and foreigners to come....
Increase TDSR to 70%, as 60% is too low.....
Don't remove SSD, as SSD ensure that the right type of investors are coming to SG, aka, long term investors.... and no speculators or immediate flipping....
then observe what happens...
Implement these measures after Q1 if prices keep dropping from now til, Mar
walkthetiger
12-01-14, 01:15
Again, it is not govt's job to protect people from over-leverage or invest wrongly and lose money or put too much money in properties etc.
Private properties are open market transactions, and govt should not artificially manipulate it. Govt's job is to regulate the banks and ensure banks don't anyhow speculate and loan out recklessly. MSR, TDSR has their purpose, although I would not agree with how TDSR is calculated because it is biased against people who have assets but no active incomes. However, SSD, ABSD, TDSR do not make sense.
In the first instance, you say they are introducing private properties Cooling Measures to prepare for election.
If this is true, then they should push up HDB flats prices all to above $1m, since 85% of citizens already own their HDB flats and majority will be very happy with new-found richness, the young ones who don't have HDB flats only make up small figure and will not affect election outcome.
When the herds jump-in, it is time to leave…. When gov signals you don’t buy, you should listen…. ongoing things in Singapore for decades already…
Young ones did not appear from nowhere. If they can't afford a house, their parents in the 85% will likely worry. Anyway, I think they will choose to blame gov for not helping the young ones instead.
Remove absd for first time buyer of whatever nationality, that will encourage investors and foreigners to come....
Increase TDSR to 70%, as 60% is too low.....
Don't remove SSD, as SSD ensure that the right type of investors are coming to SG, aka, long term investors.... and no speculators or immediate flipping....
then observe what happens...
Implement these measures after Q1 if prices keep dropping from now til, Mar
The government didnt introduce CMs on a tikam tikam basis. They knew exactly what is driving the market.
e.g When government restrict new PR from HDB resale market, COV instantly drop.
Dun worry, Gov , or PAP, will be blamed *whatever* it does, or does not :cool:
Yesterday headline : the rich lost millions in pty. the "common folks" smile with a glee : yea the rich deserved it !
Today headline : HDB COV massive drop, valuation going down. The "common folks" start to worry. However the even "commoner" folks continue the smile with a glee : yea the high COV asking HDB owners deserve it too !
Tomorrow headline : HDB resale prices collapse to 2000 level. The "even commoner" folks totally lose hope of evr upgrading , but all fresh grads and newly weds will smile with a glee : yea we finally have a chance too, just like you did in 2000-2006 !
Ppl always complain and demand this and that when it does not concern them. When it does, the attitude usually changes totally.
This is life. Deal with it ...
Wrong! When gov signals you don't buy, you must buy quickly! They are always too early in warnings.
When gov ask you people to study IT, don't study! History is our guide! :p
When the herds jump-in, it is time to leave…. When gov signals you don’t buy, you should listen…. ongoing things in Singapore for decades already…
Young ones did not appear from nowhere. If they can't afford a house, their parents in the 85% will likely worry. Anyway, I think they will choose to blame gov for not helping the young ones instead.
Wrong! When gov signals you don't buy, you must buy quickly! They are always too early in warnings.
When gov ask you people to study IT, don't study! History is our guide! :p
Information Technology is a very general terms, which area of IT are you talking about?
Government is building Singapore into a chemical, finance, biomedical, regional hub, are you saying that our children should not pursue career in this area?
Removing SSD retrospectively will accelerate the correction I reckon, but if TDSR is taken out, the rally will be on…
Market just started consolidating and people are calling for an unwinding. Heh.
I totally agree on this. SSD is there for a reason and it is for the right reason. Removal of SSD will mean that the government supports flipping.
Are you 1 of the foreign thrash that is why you reply me with such question, not knowing about what had really happened >20 years ago in Singapore?! I am talking about Singapore history, and history is our guide! You are the ignorant fool because you are not in Singapore >20 years ago!
Information Technology is a very general terms, which area of IT are you talking about?
Government is building Singapore into a chemical, finance, biomedical, regional hub, are you saying that our children should not pursue career in this area?
Once the property buyers sentiment have been badly dented, just like the aftermath of 1997, whatever the govt want to do by then will be too late and useless (that is to say, govt has no ability to revive the property market by then). It took 8 long years before the property market start to recover by 2005. History is our guide...................... :doh:
opps, once I quoted history is our guide, there are some forumeer quoting "this time is different"..!!!
I was wondering, how different?
both can be true, but sometimes "this time is different" pans out, sometimes it didn't.................. :p
Also, note that history don't repeat themselves in the same way, they always varies, e.g. the length of the period may be different, the cause of the drop and appreciation may be different.................. :beats-me-man:
opps, once I quoted history is our guide, there are some forumeer quoting "this time is different"..!!!
I was wondering, how different?
walkthetiger
12-01-14, 15:03
both can be true, but sometimes "this time is different" pans out, sometimes it didn't.................. :p
Also, note that history don't repeat themselves in the same way, they always varies, e.g. the length of the period may be different, the cause of the drop and appreciation may be different.................. :beats-me-man:
"This time is different". This sounds very familiar to me. Perhaps I heard this many times before…. there were so many stories in HK, lot of common folks and some so-called "season investors" who jumped in during the peak and shout "this time is different, the market can only go up and will never come down, market is moving to a new age...."…. Many of them ended jump down from their unit... The greed has not changed at all, when it becomes too much inside a person, a person will be eventually blinded to believe all sort of theories, figures and etc to suit his belief.
Are you 1 of the foreign thrash that is why you reply me with such question, not knowing about what had really happened >20 years ago in Singapore?! I am talking about Singapore history, and history is our guide! You are the ignorant fool because you are not in Singapore >20 years ago!
I am not sure what nonsense you are talking here.
Below you say that we should do the opposite of what the government is saying. So like you did, cling on to your property in the no so good side of CCR and then calling people buying MM and OCR stupid. 5 years later, you are still singing the same tune and now crying for government to remove CMs :D
So you said that study IT was a waste of time, I am asking you when part of IT is waste of time?
Originally Posted by teddybear http://forums.condosingapore.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?p=456336#post456336)
Wrong! When gov signals you don't buy, you must buy quickly! They are always too early in warnings.
When gov ask you people to study IT, don't study! History is our guide! :p
Please go around to ask those people who listened to the govt more than 20 years ago to study IT because said bright prospects and what happened after that... :banghead:
I am not sure what nonsense you are talking here.
Below you say that we should do the opposite of what the government is saying. So like you did, cling on to your property in the no so good side of CCR and then calling people buying MM and OCR stupid. 5 years later, you are still singing the same tune and now crying for government to remove CMs :D
So you said that study IT was a waste of time, I am asking you when part of IT is waste of time?
"This time is different", believe it or not, will have to depend on who said it.
Many people said "This time is different" in early 1998 that the property crash will recover quickly, but it recovered only by 2005.........
Many people said "This time is different" in early 2009 that the property crash will last for a long long time, but it recovered by early 2010........
So who said "This time is different" about what??? :rolleyes:
"This time is different". This sounds very familiar to me. Perhaps I heard this many times before…. there were so many stories in HK, lot of common folks and some so-called "season investors" who jumped in during the peak and shout "this time is different, the market can only go up and will never come down, market is moving to a new age...."…. Many of them ended jump down from their unit... The greed has not changed at all, when it becomes too much inside a person, a person will be eventually blinded to believe all sort of theories, figures and etc to suit his belief.
walkthetiger
12-01-14, 15:35
"This time is different", believe it or not, will have to depend on who said it.
Many people said "This time is different" in early 1998 that the property crash will recover quickly, but it recovered only by 2005.........
Many people said "This time is different" in early 2009 that the property crash will last for a long long time, but it recovered by early 2010........
So who said "This time is different" about what??? :rolleyes:
Agreed... :)...Believe wrong person, highway to death sometimes...
Wrong! When gov signals you don't buy, you must buy quickly! They are always too early in warnings.
When gov ask you people to study IT, don't study! History is our guide! :p
The good days of everybody making a lot from everything IT is already passé. Probably just before dotcom bust. However, there should still be value if one is able to choose right tends eg. Mobile, cloud kind of innovations, FBI, Dropbox. Finance also has it's heydays as simple loan banking, before all the more complicated investment, private, HNWI banking came to steal the limelight.
Please go around to ask those people who listened to the govt more than 20 years ago to study IT because said bright prospects and what happened after that... :banghead:
I have asked you many times already which part of IT do you think is useless? Is information technology DEAD after 20 years?
Just because government promote IT that doesnt mean everyone who jump into IT will become the next google or bill gate. At least it give Singaporeans a head start in the new information revolution.
On the same note, have you not heard that 3 in 4 lawyers will stop practicing after 10 years?
So may I ask you again, which part of IT do you think is useless?
I have asked you many times already which part of IT do you think is useless? Is information technology DEAD after 20 years?
Just because government promote IT that doesnt mean everyone who jump into IT will become the next google or bill gate. At least it give Singaporeans a head start in the new information revolution.
On the same note, have you not heard that 3 in 4 lawyers will stop practicing after 10 years?
So may I ask you again, which part of IT do you think is useless?
Everything look useless when the property appreciate SGD 1,000,000 from 2006 to 2010.
Everything look useless when the property appreciate SGD 1,000,000 from 2006 to 2010.
thats the reason why gov introduce cooling measures to bring people back down to earth again.
Wunderkind
12-01-14, 20:29
Agreed... :)...Believe wrong person, highway to death sometimes...
The question really is do we have the calibre of people in our system who dare to see thing differently and do thing differently ? Or do we still use the same old dogged approach to fixing problems even though times have changed?
Do we have the calibre of Ben Bernanke who, when he was faced with the daunting issue of the US recession, took the unprecedented action of initiating the massive QE program in order to keep the liquidity and credit flowing and thus prevented the US economy and perhaps also the world economy from going into a severe economic depression ?
Times can only be different if the people in the system are of a exraordinary quality of mind that know how to respond to changing times.
walkthetiger
12-01-14, 22:07
The question really is do we have the calibre of people in our system who dare to see thing differently and do thing differently ? Or do we still use the same old dogged approach to fixing problems even though times have changed?
Do we have the calibre of Ben Bernanke who, when he was faced with the daunting issue of the US recession, took the unprecedented action of initiating the massive QE program in order to keep the liquidity and credit flowing and thus prevented the US economy and perhaps also the world economy from going into a severe economic depression ?
Times can only be different if the people in the system are of a exraordinary quality of mind that know how to respond to changing times.
During my younger days, I always believe in changing the world to improve everything, but now I feel the world is filled up with all type of bullshit. Just my view..
The question really is do we have the calibre of people in our system who dare to see thing differently and do thing differently ? Or do we still use the same old dogged approach to fixing problems even though times have changed?
Do we have the calibre of Ben Bernanke who, when he was faced with the daunting issue of the US recession, took the unprecedented action of initiating the massive QE program in order to keep the liquidity and credit flowing and thus prevented the US economy and perhaps also the world economy from going into a severe economic depression ?
Times can only be different if the people in the system are of a exraordinary quality of mind that know how to respond to changing times.
Honestly, QE is the worst economic solution ever produced. And its unfortunate all the major economies decided to follow. QE really only came about because the major parties couldn t come eye to eye to sit down and think about practical non monetary economic solutions to resolve unemployment etc. So they leave it to the FED to print money. Easy way out. Its a solution for people who can t think.
End of the day for every $1 printed I think only 10 cents or less went to the right channels. It exacerbated income inequality, and brought inflation to the emerging economies. And it was an easy to to cheapen your currency and export yourself out of the problems. QE will come back to bite them someday.
I have asked you many times already which part of IT do you think is useless? Is information technology DEAD after 20 years?
Just because government promote IT that doesnt mean everyone who jump into IT will become the next google or bill gate. At least it give Singaporeans a head start in the new information revolution.
On the same note, have you not heard that 3 in 4 lawyers will stop practicing after 10 years?
So may I ask you again, which part of IT do you think is useless?
Aiyah to the bear everything is useless n dead lah.. bear mah.
Everything look useless when the property appreciate SGD 1,000,000 from 2006 to 2010.
no leh. there are happy campers with HDB from 25K become 350K. those are happy campers.
thats the reason why gov introduce cooling measures to bring people back down to earth again.
Those who miss the boat are not happy mah. or those who are too greedy regret never buy more. Those who think they want to bet against the system sell n rent and missed big time. so feel its shitty..
those who heeded the advice. "dont sell ur HDB" are happy campers or those who snag a few and are satisfied they participated in the growth of the nation are happy.
For the one how say government was wrong to promote IT in the 90s.
THE total IT spending in Singapore this year is expected to exceed S$26.2 billion, up by almost 4.4 per cent over 2013, according to preliminary estimates released by research agency Gartner. This will be slightly more than the 4.2 per cent growth to US$758 billion that the Asia Pacific region as a whole is expected to achieve. Last year the Asia Pacific region saw a gain of 4.7 per cent.
Worldwide IT spending is projected to total US$3.8 trillion in 2014, a 3.1 per cent increase from 2013 spending of US$3.7 trillion, according to Gartner. Last year the market experienced flat growth, up 0.4 per cent year-over-year.
Wunderkind
13-01-14, 07:23
Honestly, QE is the worst economic solution ever produced. And its unfortunate all the major economies decided to follow. QE really only came about because the major parties couldn t come eye to eye to sit down and think about practical non monetary economic solutions to resolve unemployment etc. So they leave it to the FED to print money. Easy way out. Its a solution for people who can t think.
End of the day for every $1 printed I think only 10 cents or less went to the right channels. It exacerbated income inequality, and brought inflation to the emerging economies. And it was an easy to to cheapen your currency and export yourself out of the problems. QE will come back to bite them someday.
It prevented the US from sliding into a era of depression and likely dragging the rest of the world economies along the downward spiral of recession. It is not the most ideal solution but it does the work . The question is can our people in the system dare think of the kind of solution that works , or go back to historical answers .
Allthepies
13-01-14, 08:00
Honestly, QE is the worst economic solution ever produced. And its unfortunate all the major economies decided to follow. QE really only came about because the major parties couldn t come eye to eye to sit down and think about practical non monetary economic solutions to resolve unemployment etc. So they leave it to the FED to print money. Easy way out. Its a solution for people who can t think.
End of the day for every $1 printed I think only 10 cents or less went to the right channels. It exacerbated income inequality, and brought inflation to the emerging economies. And it was an easy to to cheapen your currency and export yourself out of the problems. QE will come back to bite them someday.
this is an outcome of democracy, u cannot move in any direction, so have to take the middle road.....
What you say doesn't make any sense.
Cool private properties to please common folks?
If what you say is true, then they should heat up HDB flat prices more to all above $1m to please the 85% of HDB flats' owners? :doh:
only happy for 5 mins nia,, then they will realise they cant cash out coz that's their only house, they have to pay more property tax every year, and their children will have to pay even more when they become adults...
so basically, >1 mil hdb does not improve 85% singaporean's life at all..
TDSR is here to stay, it makes sense in rising or falling market.
If prices drop 10% then I think we will see 2-3% reduction in ABSD and ABSD, until there is a real drop I think no reason to change, if anything we are in equilibrium at the moment.
As far as HDB measures go I think it would make more sense to not allow PR to buy HDB, in order to get PR the applicant should be making enough to afford a condo not relying on public housing .
Focus now should be on improving quality of life for everyone, all this shoebox development is not a move in the right direction, with construction costs low relative to prices we should be building bigger units not smaller units, rather than selling a block of land with a fixed development ratio , the URA should be dictating the total number of units or bedrooms and propmote larger room sizes .It is the number of people in a development that dictates the strain on local resources not the size of the building , building an extra 10 floors to allow bigger units does nobody any harm in most locations.
smellyfish
13-01-14, 09:45
SSD should be down to 2 years. That should be the first to tweak in this mkt.
None of the cooling measure will be taken away.. Imagine if the CM is taken away and the price rebound? That will be another joke about the government. I don't feel the CM is taking effect.. More cooling measure should be implemented... :D.. The government should come out with a final killer blow....
walkthetiger
13-01-14, 15:33
None of the cooling measure will be taken away.. Imagine if the CM is taken away and the price rebound? That will be another joke about the government. I don't feel the CM is taking effect.. More cooling measure should be implemented... :D.. The government should come out with a final killer blow....
A real tough time for property agents recently..
A real tough time for property agents recently..
Yes, this group of people will be hit worst during this period. Very soon the real estate agencies are going to start lobbying the government for some relieve.
Please go around to ask those people who listened to the govt more than 20 years ago to study IT because said bright prospects and what happened after that... :banghead:
I have been working in Singapore IT for more than 20 years now, no regret, still having fun, and learning new stuff.
One is entitled to love his profession - and play the stock/property market at the same time.
A real tough time for property agents recently..
don t have much sympathy for them. They make like crazy during the boom times, like to show off their wealth on sunday times. Its fine to have a few low years....
You are just plain lucky or you are just the few talented IT personnel who managed to survive.......
I know of many being retrenched and then stay jobless thereafter for many years......... :o
Since you are in IT, you should know where all these IT jobs go to don't you despite so many older Singaporean IT professionals are jobless?
Care to make a fair statement for all to know?
I have been working in Singapore IT for more than 20 years now, no regret, still having fun, and learning new stuff.
One is entitled to love his profession - and play the stock/property market at the same time.
You are just plain lucky or you are just the few talented IT personnel who managed to survive.......
I know of many being retrenched and then stay jobless thereafter for many years......... :o
Since you are in IT, you should know where all these IT jobs go to don't you despite so many older Singaporean IT professionals are jobless?
How much do you actually know about IT in the first place?
Can you tell us which successful IT professionals didnt have some form of IT studies in the 90s?
Like I said before Singapore IT market is worth S$26.2 billion, while the worldwide IT market is worth US$3.8 trillion
Do you even know how many zeros are there in 1 trillion?
Stop all you jiaowei lah. Perhaps you should just focus on air pollution and foreigners peeing at teban.
if one policy has to be removed, it must be the ABSd imposed on Singapore citizen!
:mad:
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