View Full Version : How can new BTOs be made more affordable?
ppl complained tat BTO prices is still too high. how can BTO prices be cheaper?
is there a nid for BTO to imitate the designs of condos?
cant we have a basic, simple design to keep designing & building cost down by perhaps 10%-20%?
60 years leasehold ... bam ... cost down by 39 years lease
nothing change in design, quality, space, etc
we all know ... the most expensive component of property is land price
building cost is peanuts
ppl complained tat BTO prices is still too high. how can BTO prices be cheaper?
is there a nid for BTO to imitate the designs of condos?
cant we have a basic, simple design to keep designing & building cost down by perhaps 10%-20%?
phantom_opera
30-12-13, 20:17
ppl complained tat BTO prices is still too high. how can BTO prices be cheaper?
is there a nid for BTO to imitate the designs of condos?
cant we have a basic, simple design to keep designing & building cost down by perhaps 10%-20%?
bring the block to block distance to 10m
block to MRT track distance to 15m
block to MSCP distance to 20m
build on top of MSCP as much as possible
use lousy quality tiles, windows frames, paint etc :scared-1:
Simply doing away with the Home Shelter will achieve a drop in cost of construction.
Shorter lease as earlier mentioned.
But I do not think we shd go back to the days of small windows and cheap tiles.
Plot ratios are more or less maxed for livable standards, so building a higher density precinct is not going to improve anything.
Costs have gone up significantly due to HS requirements, lifts on every floor, and substantially more parking lot provisions.
60 years leasehold ... bam ... cost down by 39 years lease
nothing change in design, quality, space, etc
we all know ... the most expensive component of property is land price
building cost is peanuts
will changing to lh60 create another set of problem?
BTOs are expensive because they try to imitate condos' designs, use different designs in every estate and even different blocks - Save on design costs will make BTO flats cheaper and also standardized designs cheaper to maintain and manage!
BTOs expensive because now all tiled up, give better quality materials - So if can give cement floor, no wall-tiling, no cabinet, then BTO flats will be cheaper!
BTOs expensive because using internal rubbish chutes - Change to common chute, 1 per level will be much cheaper!
Obviously, the mother of all to make BTO flats cheap - CHANGE TO 60 YEARS LEASE!!! :cheers1:
ppl complained tat BTO prices is still too high. how can BTO prices be cheaper?
is there a nid for BTO to imitate the designs of condos?
cant we have a basic, simple design to keep designing & building cost down by perhaps 10%-20%?
ppl complained tat BTO prices is still too high. how can BTO prices be cheaper?
is there a nid for BTO to imitate the designs of condos?
cant we have a basic, simple design to keep designing & building cost down by perhaps 10%-20%?
I am not sure what exactly you are talking about here. AFAIK, PM Lee has already mentioned how cheap BTO can be bought through subsidies during his National Day Rally speech.
How low you expect bto to go?
I am not sure what exactly you are talking about here. AFAIK, PM Lee has already mentioned how cheap BTO can be bought through subsidies during his National Day Rally speech.
How low you expect bto to go?
well, I dun expect u to be able to comprehend, so dun bother to ask :47:
well, I dun expect u to be able to comprehend, so dun bother to ask :47:
You started a post saying that BTO should be more affordable. I am asking you a very simple and direct question. how low you expect BTO to go?
And if you are wise enough you should also know that the biggest cost component in BTO is not the material or construction cost but the cost of land.
And lastly did you actually check the price BTO flat and all the gov subsidies given for first timer and low income family before you post this thread?
And, how low do you expect BTO to go?
You started a post saying that BTO should be more affordable. I am asking you a very simple and direct question. how low you expect BTO to go?
simple.
how much has yr wage increased for the past 10 yrs vs how much hv BTO prices increased in the same period.
having subsidies doesn't mean it is affordable. if u merely relied on how cheap a BTO can be from PM's speech rally, den I wan to ask u a qn. How many % of BTO applicants actually enjoy tat full spectrum of subsidies used in his scenario?
And lastly did you actually check the price BTO flat and all the gov subsidies given for first timer and low income family before you post this thread?
did u not read the title of my thread?
which part of it u do not understand?
is tis a complaint thread abt low income family finding BTO unaffordable ?
is tis a complaint thread abt first timer finding BTO unaffordable?
simple.
how much has yr wage increased for the past 10 yrs vs how much hv BTO prices increased in the same period.
having subsidies doesn't mean it is affordable. if u merely relied on how cheap a BTO can be from PM's speech rally, den I wan to ask u a qn. How many % of BTO applicants actually enjoy tat full spectrum of subsidies used in his scenario?
I am assuming your already know the answers to these questions, or else you wont be posting such a thread right?
Or is this just one of those many kong jiao wei thread?
And btw, how low do you think BTO should go?
bring the block to block distance to 10m
block to MRT track distance to 15m
block to MSCP distance to 20m
build on top of MSCP as much as possible
use lousy quality tiles, windows frames, paint etc :scared-1:
Some guy in StraitsTimes already complain the hdb look like concert jungle with all the bto pre fab walls. Not creative n too near liao. Maybe that guy expect full glass hdb?
Make cheaper? 30yrs lease lor. N internal wall all use the wood type.
But the thread starter should look at wat the people want. People want cheap but don't want cheap quality or poor location. That's wat the people really want.
simple.
how much has yr wage increased for the past 10 yrs vs how much hv BTO prices increased in the same period.
having subsidies doesn't mean it is affordable. if u merely relied on how cheap a BTO can be from PM's speech rally, den I wan to ask u a qn. How many % of BTO applicants actually enjoy tat full spectrum of subsidies used in his scenario?
We'll actually wage have increases quit a lot over the last 10 yrs. personally I have seen 100% increase .
But on avg 50% across the board for middle income.
We'll actually wage have increases quit a lot over the last 10 yrs. personally I have seen 100% increase .
But on avg 50% across the board for middle income.
the qn is, do the bulk of bto applicants enjoyed a 50% increase in wages for the past 10yrs?
u cant be quoting us examples of fat increases where the bulk dun qualify for bto in the 1st place.
the qn is, do the bulk of bto applicants enjoyed a 50% increase in wages for the past 10yrs?
u cant be quoting us examples of fat increases where the bulk dun qualify for bto in the 1st place.
Why not under 10k combine middle income a lot. Median combine family income $7500.
Why not leh?
I know many people don't like the idea that their pay actually increased. They only like to hear pity word. Pay never increase even though it actually did.
Those that fall below the median income ie low income have higher subsidy. Which still allow them to own a roof. 2 bedder.
Why not under 10k combine middle income a lot. Median combine family income $7500.
Why not leh?
I know many people don't like the idea that their pay actually increased. They only like to hear pity word. Pay never increase even though it actually did.
Those that fall below the median income ie low income have higher subsidy. Which still allow them to own a roof. 2 bedder.
cos I do noe there r many ppl with less den 20% pay rise over the last 5 yrs, some even pay freeze for 2-3 yrs.
50% increase may sound little cos it means 5% increase each yr.
public servants definitely exceed tis, but many pte employees r simply not as fortunate.
cos I do noe there r many ppl with less den 20% pay rise over the last 5 yrs, some even pay freeze for 2-3 yrs.
50% increase may sound little cos it means 5% increase each yr.
public servants definitely exceed tis, but many pte employees r simply not as fortunate.
Did those who increase less than 20% in the last 10 yrs improve their skill set? Did they move up int their jobs? If they didn't should be hard to expect increase. One who expect pay to increase need to improve their value to the company over time. If not as a boss why why would I pay so much more?
I m talking abt private employees.
So perhaps u should define the criteria of people who cannot afford ? Then it would make the discussion more realistic.
Don't need lah, cut foreigners intake then locals pay definitely increase! Govt knows that, and is doing this now, but they are only targeting low-income workers. May be you want to tell govt about this and they should not cut foreigners intake? :p
Did those who increase less than 20% in the last 10 yrs improve their skill set? Did they move up int their jobs? If they didn't should be hard to expect increase. One who expect pay to increase need to improve their value to the company over time. If not as a boss why why would I pay so much more?
I m talking abt private employees.
So perhaps u should define the criteria of people who cannot afford ? Then it would make the discussion more realistic.
Don't need lah, cut foreigners intake then locals pay definitely increase! Govt knows that, and is doing this now, but they are only targeting low-income workers. May be you want to tell govt about this and they should not cut foreigners intake? :p
Oh really? So everyone pay all increase ain't it lppl. Ur coffee become $4. So wat pay all increase where inflation go through the roof. N the people getting pay increase without even generating new skills?
Wat next all the mnc move to other Asia country when our workforce become too expensive n no better skills which they can tap else where at cheaper rates?
Then all no job n can go suck on their toes abt high pay n easy life.
Did those who increase less than 20% in the last 10 yrs improve their skill set? Did they move up int their jobs? If they didn't should be hard to expect increase. One who expect pay to increase need to improve their value to the company over time. If not as a boss why why would I pay so much more?
I m talking abt private employees.
So perhaps u should define the criteria of people who cannot afford ? Then it would make the discussion more realistic.
couples wif tertiary education combined pay abt 7k.
sole income earner of 5k.
not everyone has the means to further upgrade, not ever position got promotion opportunity.
couples wif tertiary education combined pay abt 7k.
sole income earner of 5k.
not everyone has the means to further upgrade, not ever position got promotion opportunity.
You havent answer my question. How low should BTO go??
As I said, you like it or not, the govt is already cutting foreigners intake.
I suppose they don't really think that your complaint is valid and your complaints are just a bunch of rubbish talk and they have decided to disregard what you are complaining here.
Above make sense? Ha ha ha! :tongue3:
Oh really? So everyone pay all increase ain't it lppl. Ur coffee become $4. So wat pay all increase where inflation go through the roof. N the people getting pay increase without even generating new skills?
Wat next all the mnc move to other Asia country when our workforce become too expensive n no better skills which they can tap else where at cheaper rates?
Then all no job n can go suck on their toes abt high pay n easy life.
Don't need lah, cut foreigners intake then locals pay definitely increase! Govt knows that, and is doing this now, but they are only targeting low-income workers. May be you want to tell govt about this and they should not cut foreigners intake? :p
$7.5k per month median income actually quite Ok lah, depending what life style they want...
But we should not be using median income because who knows whether the spread is very wide from bottom 10% to the 50%? (just like from the 95th% income to 99th% income the gap is so so wide until herds of elephants can pass through!) :p
We should take the 10th% income from the bottom, and if they still can have comfortable life with their income, and those below 10th% income or no income continue to get good social benefit/help, then will be good enough! :cool:
The way to ensure this is to specifically state a poverty line with respect to per head and state a min wage with respect to per hour work? :p
couples wif tertiary education combined pay abt 7k.
sole income earner of 5k.
not everyone has the means to further upgrade, not ever position got promotion opportunity.
as long as BTO is benchmarked with market price, we are screwed!
if punggol BTO is going to be expensive
affordable? yes, with 25-35 years loan
if the late 90s or early 2000 many buy BTO and can pay off by 10-15 years or less. that's why there are many upgraders 2011-2013 go into private properties with their full paid hdb.
with the current price, how many BTO new owners can pay off their hdb before their loan tenure is up. that's a classic home loan 'slave'
Extract from PM Lee NDR speech
A family today, if you are earning $1,000, you should be able to afford a 2-room flat. If you are earning $2,000, you should be able to afford a 3-room flat. If you are earning $4,000, you should be able to afford a 4-room flat and that is completely possible. When I say afford, I mean use your CPF mostly and have a 25-year loan, not a 30-year loan and then in your later years, your income can be used to beef up your retirement savings. So $1K, 2-room flat; $2K, 3-room flat; $4K, 4-room flat; 25-year loan, mostly from your CPF. It can be done, we are almost there. How do we do this? I do not think we want to do this by bringing down the BTO prices because that after a while will bring down all the resale market and everybody who owns a flat in Singapore will be hurt. But we will keep the BTO prices stable for some time; we will increase the support for the lower and middle-income households. And we already have the mechanisms to do this, to subsidise flat purchases. I talked about the Special CPF Housing Grant just now, SHG. We also have the Additional CPF Housing Grant (AHG) which extends to the middle income families as well, lower-middle-income households too. So together, low-income households and middle-income households get a big discount on 2-room flats and 3-room flats, sometimes more than one-third off the price in discounts. But we will do more.
For families who are only able to afford 2-room flats, I would say the 2-room flats are already quite affordable to them. We are happy they are able to buy the 2-room flats; it is a reasonable cost on them every month. But what we should do is to help them when they are ready to upgrade from a 2-room to a 3-room flat when they improve their lives, and we will give them some Step-Up Housing Grants to help them to upgrade later on. So from 2-room if you need to upgrade later, you get help from the Government. For others buying 3-room and 4-room flats, the lower income, the lower-middle income, first-time buyers, 3-room and 4-room flats, we can also do more. The 3-room flats relatively speaking are less of an issue, it is more affordable. The 4-room flats, it is okay but I think we can give more help to the households who are buying them. So we will extend the SHG, which is now only for 2- and 3-room flats, we will extend that also to 4-room. And we will also broaden it so that instead of only for the low income households, we will also allow it for the middle-income households. So what it means, net-net, is a middle-income household buying a 4-room flat can get a saving of up to $20,000, which is not so small. $20,000 more than what they are getting today which is already not so small. So let me explain how this works. I shall be your housing agent.
HDB has a very beautiful development - Fernvale Riverwalk, a BTO project in Sengkang. It is a marvellous place, waterfront living, 2-room, 3-room, 4-room flats, Sengkang West Avenue, Fernvale Link, Punggol Reservoir just down there. There are going to be four residential blocks, 20- to 22 storey-high with spaces for relaxation and bonding. So there will be children’s playgrounds, if you are young kids; there will be adults and elderly fitness stations, you can practise for your IPPT; resting shelters, a precinct pavilion, open green spaces and if you like nature, not very far away, leisure stroll along the boardwalk next to Punggol Reservoir. Hence it is called Fernvale Riverwalk. Furthermore, supermarkets, eating house, shops and a childcare centre. Everything is there. How much do you think a 3-room flat in this place will cost, cheapest? People say flats are expensive. How much do you think they will cost? Think about it. BTO price, I think I should do a poll. I offer you three choices - $150,000, $200,000, $250,000. Who thinks that the cheapest flat is $250,000? Hands up. Who thinks the cheapest flat is $200,000? Hands up. Wow, quite a lot. Who thinks the cheapest flat is $150,000? I think we must vote again. $250,000 is out, so $150,000 and $200,000, your choice. $150,000, hands up. $200,000?. I think $200,000 wins, but actually $200,000 loses, because the cheapest flat is just $150,000. 3-room flats, posted price. So if you add grants, add subsidies, low income families pay even less. But people will say this is only because it is the cheapest flat. So let me take a typical flat in Fernvale Riverwalk, typical 3-room flat and let me show you some sums. I am still your HDB housing agent, remember, but not getting any commission from (Housing Minister) Khaw Boon Wan.
So a typical Fernvale 3-room flat BTO price, let me go through, show you the arithmetic because afterwards we got a stall outside, you can sign (up for a flat). 3-room BTO flat typical price is a bit more than $150,000 but not much more; it is $170,000. Now, let us assume that you are one of the (households with a monthly income of) $2,000 buying this flat. What grants are you going to get? Existing, just the present arrangements, you will have $45,000 of grants already, various things. But now because we have changed our SHG, you will get an extra $10,000 of grant and furthermore if the husband is an NS man, which I think most Singaporeans will be, from the NS Recognition Award, you will have another $4,000 worth of grant down there. So the nett price to him buying the flat, if you have your calculators, is $111,000. So when you think it is $200,000, I think that may be the impression, but it is not accurate. It is actually a lot more affordable than you think. If this household takes a 25-year mortgage, how much will the monthly repayment be? $427. So the CPF can pay all of that, cash repayment every month, zero. So it is not bad. It is so attractive that some people will now ask how about the 4-room flat. So let me show you the 4-room flat sums.
I take a typical flat again is $285,000. It is not the cheapest, the cheapest is about $250,000 odd, but I use a typical example. Household income for this family? Let us say $4,000. Husband and wife working, not hard to achieve. Existing grants for this household, they will already have $15,000 worth of grant but with a new scheme, with SHG extended, they will get $20,000 more. And I assume this is also an NS man, so $4,000 of NS Recognition Award going in towards the flat, so the net price to him is $246,000, less than a quarter million, also affordable. Now supposing they take a mortgage, 25-year mortgage, monthly repayment of $987, of which the CPF will look after $920 and his cash repayment, is all of $67 or about $2 a day. Not bad. And people say HDB is making money. Something is wrong.
This is how we are making HDB flats more affordable and especially more affordable for the less well-off Singaporeans. Let me summarise my points. We have made significant moves in recent years. Tonight, what I have announced is another significant move but it is not the end of the story. We will monitor closely how well people can afford housing in Singapore and over time as it becomes necessary, we will do more to help the lower and the middle income Singaporeans own their homes. We will always make sure that an HDB flat is always within reach, affordable and available to Singaporeans. Do not worry, go ahead, plan on it, get married, get your flat. If you make the effort, the opportunities are there in Singapore.
couples wif tertiary education combined pay abt 7k.
sole income earner of 5k.
not everyone has the means to further upgrade, not ever position got promotion opportunity.
Opportunity is self created. grabbed. not fall from sky sitting ard contemplating why no opportunity. Thats what different the people who are have the hunger and those who keep complaining they are hungry.
My pt is here there are ample opportunity if one is willing to venture. Opportunity big or small all depends on ones willingness to strive for it.
as long as BTO is benchmarked with market price, we are screwed!
if punggol BTO is going to be expensive
affordable? yes, with 25-35 years loan
if the late 90s or early 2000 many buy BTO and can pay off by 10-15 years or less. that's why there are many upgraders 2011-2013 go into private properties with their full paid hdb.
with the current price, how many BTO new owners can pay off their hdb before their loan tenure is up. that's a classic home loan 'slave'
ur 25-30yrs loan is assuming a person never get pay increase for 25-30 yrs. and never progress.
with a progress in careerer a 300K BTO can easy easy pay up in 10yrs.
As I said, you like it or not, the govt is already cutting foreigners intake.
I suppose they don't really think that your complaint is valid and your complaints are just a bunch of rubbish talk and they have decided to disregard what you are complaining here.
Above make sense? Ha ha ha! :tongue3:
really? u cant handle the truth? Who are the lower income jobs being done by? Today is all FW doing those jobs. Is there singaporean want to be cleaners , rubbish man, construction workers? opps.. u are the ones who want ur kids to do them right? I forgot.
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
$7.5k per month median income actually quite Ok lah, depending what life style they want...
But we should not be using median income because who knows whether the spread is very wide from bottom 10% to the 50%? (just like from the 95th% income to 99th% income the gap is so so wide until herds of elephants can pass through!) :p
We should take the 10th% income from the bottom, and if they still can have comfortable life with their income, and those below 10th% income or no income continue to get good social benefit/help, then will be good enough! :cool:
The way to ensure this is to specifically state a poverty line with respect to per head and state a min wage with respect to per hour work? :p
Talk rots. There are the subsidy provided for the lower income to get BTO. 2bedders etc. So wat else u want?
So u willing to pay 40% tax to fund these social projects? MinWage LOL! When most of the low end and dirty jobs are done by FW u kao pay abt MinWage? When the kopi become $4 a cup see who is the 1st to Kao pay. I
bet u are the 1st to kao pay again.
typical Kao Pay singaporean. kom plain everything expensive yet want min wage. Want everything cheap, want everything low tax, want service good good. but dont want to pay more. And want high high pay and light light work.
Pls find me a country so good. I am still waiting for u to tell me where have such place.
Am I talking to a COW?
You can't read?
Why I can't handle the truth? Actually fact is, you are the one who can't the truth!
The truth is, "the govt think your complaints are just a bunch of rubbish talk and they have decided to disregard what you are complaining here", and they have already proceeded to restrict the intake of foreigners that can work here.
You not happy? Want to COW PAY COW BULL here? You are talking to the wrong audience. Please COW PAY COW BULL in front of the PM, no point doing it here! :tongue3:
really? u cant handle the truth? Who are the lower income jobs being done by? Today is all FW doing those jobs. Is there singaporean want to be cleaners , rubbish man, construction workers? opps.. u are the ones who want ur kids to do them right? I forgot.
:banghead::banghead::banghead:
As I said, you like it or not, the govt is already cutting foreigners intake.
I suppose they don't really think that your complaint is valid and your complaints are just a bunch of rubbish talk and they have decided to disregard what you are complaining here.
Above make sense? Ha ha ha! :tongue3:
Am I talking to a COW?
You can't read?
Why I can't handle the truth? Actually fact is, you are the one who can't the truth!
The truth is, "the govt think your complaints are just a bunch of rubbish talk and they have decided to disregard what you are complaining here", and they have already proceeded to restrict the intake of foreigners that can work here.
You not happy? Want to COW PAY COW BULL here? You are talking to the wrong audience. Please COW PAY COW BULL in front of the PM, no point doing it here! :tongue3:
U can't read? I am say u cow pay cow bu. u are barking up the wrong tree . U blind ah.? Must be
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