View Full Version : MND to impose cap on percentage of foreigners in every HDB estate: Khaw
princess_morbucks
06-12-13, 11:19
http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/singapore/story/mnd-impose-cap-percentage-foreigners-every-hdb-estate-khaw-20131206
The Ministry of National Development will impose a cap on the percentage of foreigners in Housing Board estates, Minister Khaw Boon Wan wrote in a blog post on Friday.
While Minister of Parliament Foo Mee Har (West Coast) has suggested a 10 per cent cap on the number of flats that can be sublet to foreigners in each block, Mr Khaw said that "an appropriate cap" will soon be decided upon. He wrote: "I am mindful of the need to balance the impact on those who rely on subletting for additional income, especially the elderly."
Currently, only Singapore citizens and Permanent Residents can buy HDB flats. But foreigners can rent rooms or entire flats - there is no cap on the number of flats that can be sublet to foreign tenants as yet.
According to HDB statistics, less than 4 per cent of HDB flats are sublet to foreigners, excluding Malaysians. However, Mr Khaw said the proportion may go up to 9 per cent in some areas, or even 18 per cent in some blocks. "I agreed with MP Foo Mee Har that we need to maintain the Singaporean character of our heartlands. In principle, MND has agreed to impose such a cap. The question is at what level," Mr Khaw wrote.
princess_morbucks
06-12-13, 11:47
http://mndsingapore.wordpress.com/2013/12/06/preventing-foreigner-enclaves/
Please visit the MND Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/MNDsingapore)to leave a comment.
Allthepies
06-12-13, 11:50
Yeah... Back to basic for HDB.. poor will remain poor...
Yeah... Back to basic for HDB.. poor will remain poor...
how come i suddenly feel my hdb is worth lesser and lesser :banghead:
it's just way too myopic to just look at a percentage. let's go back to drawing board,
what is a "Singaporean" character in the HDB estates? high rise littering? lovely malay weddings at the void deck? sweet aroma of curry from indian neighbours? please don't think all Singaporeans forgot the curry saga between a local and PRC family. Ruling? Local family to shut windows whenever cooking curry. Want to talk about promoting Singaporean character? Still got a long way to go.
our society is a melting pot of immigrants and that is what gives us our unique-ness in the first place. so now, we are no more a melting pot?
What I want to know is will EM services who help Hdb rent out flats in areas like Toa Payoh(blk 2x to 3x) and Boon Lay be affected by the ruling and after TA expire can no longer rent out the whole blocks to foreigners?
princess_morbucks
06-12-13, 12:31
condo owners huat ah:D
ESP the OCR landlord :)!
Percentage of a unit?
Percentage of one block?
Percentage of an estate?
We love this Khaw sometimes.
HDB dweller's dream of renting out HDB and retiring in JB will become more difficult, so I think the sector that will get hit most will be Iskandar development.
HDB dweller's dream of renting out HDB and retiring in JB will become more difficult, so I think the sector that will get hit most will be Iskandar development.
Depending on how the rule is imposed, the Huat sectors are OCR condo & Iskandar developments (more Malaysians staying/renting in JB instead).
HDB landlords are the losers, while those staying in HDB (with no means to upgrade to private) will be happy.
princess_morbucks
06-12-13, 13:22
Depending on how the rule is imposed, the Huat sectors are OCR condo & Iskandar developments (more Malaysians staying/renting in JB instead).
HDB landlords are the losers, while those staying in HDB (with no means to upgrade to private) will be happy.
These make up the majority.
Majority happy is the right way to go!:)
Btw, the foreigners they are referring to, do not refer to Malaysians.
So it is likely Malaysian tenants will not be affected by the new rule.
Depending on how the rule is imposed, the Huat sectors are OCR condo & Iskandar developments (more Malaysians staying/renting in JB instead).
HDB landlords are the losers, while those staying in HDB (with no means to upgrade to private) will be happy.
Why OCR condo huat? In the first place, most HDB that are high with foreigners percentage are those nearer to town. not that many foreigners at far flung hdb.
princess_morbucks
06-12-13, 13:27
Why OCR condo huat? In the first place, most HDB that are high with foreigners percentage are those nearer to town. not that many foreigners at far flung hdb.
The foreigners who cannot rent HDB in future will have to turn to OCR condos for rental as OCR condos rental price are closest to HDB rental price.
Btw, the foreigners they are referring to, do not refer to Malaysians.
So it is likely Malaysian tenants will not be affected by the new rule.
Yes agreed, that's why I said 'depending on how the rule is imposed'.
I wonder whether Malaysians can continue to be excluded though, given our MND minister's link. Even my wife (Malaysian) ask how come Malaysians can continue to enjoy this special privilege without Singaporeans complaining... :)
challenger
06-12-13, 13:58
I think only those sublet whole flat affected. Those rent room still ok. Devil in the details.
Yes agreed, that's why I said 'depending on how the rule is imposed'.
I wonder whether Malaysians can continue to be excluded though, given our MND minister's link. Even my wife (Malaysian) ask how come Malaysians can continue to enjoy this special privilege without Singaporeans complaining... :)
Singapore whether govt or private will always need malaysia's physical & human resources no matter how well we are doing. It will be good if it continues to be vice versa. At least their present federal govt is also trying to develop their country with Sg. Although recent Johor announcement on work week is likely to be a regression.:doh:
Yes agreed, that's why I said 'depending on how the rule is imposed'.
I wonder whether Malaysians can continue to be excluded though, given our MND minister's link. Even my wife (Malaysian) ask how come Malaysians can continue to enjoy this special privilege without Singaporeans complaining... :)
That is because Singaporean and Malaysians are very similar culturally...
You seldom hear people complain when Malaysian are around but Ah Tiong and other nationality all complain....
Those who kpkb about prices of HDB and condo now must bite the bullet liao.... be careful what you ask for!
puffer_fish
06-12-13, 14:20
Excellent news,
Hmm.....another cooling measure for HDB.
Landlords will be the latest addition of a group of HDB sellers.
Hmm.....another cooling measure for HDB.
Landlords will be the latest addition of a group of HDB sellers.
If the cap is set at 10% for sublet of entire flat and excludes Malaysians, this is likely to be a 雷声大，雨点小 move, which affects very few blocks. i.e. more of a political move than any real changes.
If the cap is set at 10% for sublet of entire flat and excludes Malaysians, this is likely to be a 雷声大，雨点小 move, which affects very few blocks. i.e. more of a political move than any real changes.
But foreigners make up 35% of singapore. Isnt 10% too restrictive?
Why OCR condo huat? In the first place, most HDB that are high with foreigners percentage are those nearer to town. not that many foreigners at far flung hdb.
Saw ang moh today at neighborhood coffee shop asking for kopi siu tai.. v localised. I like!
proud owner
06-12-13, 21:40
That is because Singaporean and Malaysians are very similar culturally...
You seldom hear people complain when Malaysian are around but Ah Tiong and other nationality all complain....
Those who kpkb about prices of HDB and condo now must bite the bullet liao.... be careful what you ask for!
IF there weren't any Ah Tiongs etc ... ONLY Malaysians ... I am sure singaporeans will complain about that.
Now that we have others .. Malaysians becomes PALs ...
Just like ... IF the English/French are playing, Australians will boo them in Rugby.. and treat the Kiwis are Friends...
If its only Aussie and Kiwis playing .... Kiwis will be booed ...
Allthepies
06-12-13, 22:06
IF there weren't any Ah Tiongs etc ... ONLY Malaysians ... I am sure singaporeans will complain about that.
Now that we have others .. Malaysians becomes PALs ...
Just like ... IF the English/French are playing, Australians will boo them in Rugby.. and treat the Kiwis are Friends...
If its only Aussie and Kiwis playing .... Kiwis will be booed ...
Very sharp observation! 10-20 years ago, we were booing the malaysians working here....
Very sharp observation! 10-20 years ago, we were booing the malaysians working here....
over the last 20 years, how many Singaporeans have married Malaysians?
Many Singapore politicians are malaysian too
Saw ang moh today at neighborhood coffee shop asking for kopi siu tai.. v localised. I like!
they drink beer out of the plastic ice buckets as well. +1 like.
Malaysia have improved a lot, their standard and quality or work is now much nearer to ours hence we find them similar.... These last 20 years they have assimilated to our culture
proud owner
06-12-13, 23:04
Malaysia have improved a lot, their standard and quality or work is now much nearer to ours hence we find them similar.... These last 20 years they have assimilated to our culture
in another 20 yrs will the Big Six ( say it in Cantonese ) also become our pals ?
:D why Malaysian? I prefer Indonesian.
Malaysia have improved a lot, their standard and quality or work is now much nearer to ours hence we find them similar.... These last 20 years they have assimilated to our culture
So has their pay packet..... similar to Singaporean.
This move probably came about to please some jealous HDB loser who only owns one property and unable to rent out, while his rich neighbor probably upgraded to a private property leaving him with a third world country neighbor.
So now foreigners will start forming enclaves in private property, happy now?
Imagine if you stay in a hdb unit with many tenants from next door going in and out at different time of the days and some at the corridors. It is easy to implement but difficult to monitor as tenant can sublet to foreigners.
This move probably came about to please some jealous HDB loser who only owns one property and unable to rent out, while his rich neighbor probably upgraded to a private property leaving him with a third world country neighbor.
Imagine if you stay in a hdb unit with many tenants from next door going in and out at different time of the days and some at the corridors. It is easy to implement but difficult to monitor as tenant can sublet to foreigners.
So? It is ok for this to happen in private property?
Garment can only control the no. of tenants in a unit based on the size of unit in both hdb and PCs. Owners of either hdb or private property should be considerate to their neighbours and not overwhelmed by just the rental income. I believe most owners would not like to see overcrowding of their flats/ condos as it is exposed to higher wear and tear. It is possible for such incident to be raised in AGM. Quite a lot of the condos in prime areas are mostly rented and does not seem to be a problem. May be it depends on the type of tenant.
So? It is ok for this to happen in private property?
So? It is ok for this to happen in private property?
Political move. Pte properties have much worse enclave situation.
But foreigners make up 35% of singapore. Isnt 10% too restrictive?
Khaw already revealed that only 4% of HDB flats are rented to foreigners (excluding our beloved Malaysians) under the current foreigner composition. I believe many of them stay in dormitories, or rent HDB rooms instead of the entire flat.
So 10% is a v gd number actually. Certainly not too restrictive. We rented out our entire HDB flat to Indian workers for > 5 years. Officially there were 6 of them, unofficially I am not sure.
It was certainly a bit inconvenient for our neighbours, to the extent that my next-door neighbour sold out. At times, it is necessary to support certain rules for the country's good. This is 1 such situation.
Allthepies
07-12-13, 09:14
Khaw already revealed that only 4% of HDB flats are rented to foreigners (excluding our beloved Malaysians) under the current foreigner composition. I believe many of them stay in dormitories, or rent HDB rooms instead of the entire flat.
So 10% is a v gd number actually. Certainly not too restrictive. We rented out our entire HDB flat to Indian workers for > 5 years. Officially there were 6 of them, unofficially I am not sure.
It was certainly a bit inconvenient for our neighbours, to the extent that my next-door neighbour sold out. At times, it is necessary to support certain rules for the country's good. This is 1 such situation.
Then government should stop all renting of HDB flats...
imagine your HDB home was once a peaceful quiet environment, then ur neighbour who has another condo to live rented out his HDB and to maximise his profit rented it to 6 unrelated individuals squeezing into the HDB unit like a squatter settlement....:doh::doh:
Allthepies
07-12-13, 09:17
I think to maintain the balance, HDB should impose whole unit rental should only rent out to 1 family/individual, cannot treat the unit like a squatter and rent out to multiple unrelated individuals.....
I support all these moves fully. Like i ve said before, HDB is basic public housing subsidized by public taxes. It is a roof over the head, not for speculation. If you want a potentially appreciating asset class there re plenty of options for you to play with. Studios, ECs, commercial, industrial, PCs, etc.
Everyone wants a constantly appreciating HDB but is that possible? In the end the future generations will have to pay for it, because income appreciation will never catch up with asset appreciation. Your $300k hdb go up by 10% is $30k. Your $30k salary go up by 10% is $3k. So the gap widens every year.
Then government should stop all renting of HDB flats...
imagine your HDB home was once a peaceful quiet environment, then ur neighbour who has another condo to live rented out his HDB and to maximise his profit rented it to 6 unrelated individuals squeezing into the HDB unit like a squatter settlement....:doh::doh:
Well in our case, it was a corporate lease, and 6 names were provided as tenants, not exactly unrelated. The same scenario is also played out for condos in Little India or Meyer Rd right? Just exchange the term 'HDB' for 'condo'.
But taking a step back, you do know the reason why Mah BT allowed sublet of entire flat right?
Officially, it's to alleviate the housing shortage for foreigners due to their influx, unofficially, well Mah was always the top revenue man.
I think to maintain the balance, HDB should impose whole unit rental should only rent out to 1 family/individual, cannot treat the unit like a squatter and rent out to multiple unrelated individuals.....
Easier said than done though. How about 'corporate' lease? How about illegal subletting which HDB owner is unaware of? How about rental of rooms to 2 or 3 individuals per room?
I support all these moves fully. Like i ve said before, HDB is basic public housing subsidized by public taxes. It is a roof over the head, not for speculation. If you want a potentially appreciating asset class there re plenty of options for you to play with. Studios, ECs, commercial, industrial, PCs, etc.
Everyone wants a constantly appreciating HDB but is that possible? In the end the future generations will have to pay for it, because income appreciation will never catch up with asset appreciation. Your $300k hdb go up by 10% is $30k. Your $30k salary go up by 10% is $3k. So the gap widens every year.
So u are saying u will be happy to pay more taxes fund the retriees who only income depends on renting out his hdb?
So u are saying u will be happy to pay more taxes fund the retriees who only income depends on renting out his hdb?
V gd point. Noted that those who advocate returning HDB to their roots and disallow rental, are mainly those who have either sold their HDB flats or have ventured straight into private property.
They do not realise that the retirement problem will only get worse in the coming years, without HDB rental income. Thanks to Mah, the Govt is now stuck and the policy can't be easily u-turned without devastating effects on (a) the lower income group, and (b) those who are funding/planning to fund their condo purchase with HDB rental.
Allthepies
07-12-13, 10:39
Easier said than done though. How about 'corporate' lease? How about illegal subletting which HDB owner is unaware of? How about rental of rooms to 2 or 3 individuals per room?
Once the law is implemented, then residents affected can have legal solution... when they see their neighbour unit tenated to multiple tenants and is disturbing the neighbours, they can lodge a complain to HDB, HDB can then launch an investigation and if found guilty, either give warning or repossess the HDB unit. ...
See it is very easy to enforced, one you disturb the neighbours they will automatically take action against you...
Allthepies
07-12-13, 10:42
The key point is that while still allowing HDB owner to earn a passive income, they must not inconvenience their neighbours....
It the logical and win win situation...
Once the law is implemented, then residents affected can have legal solution... when they see their neighbour unit tenated to multiple tenants and is disturbing the neighbours, they can lodge a complain to HDB, HDB can then launch an investigation and if found guilty, either give warning or repossess the HDB unit. ...
See it is very easy to enforced, one you disturb the neighbours they will automatically take action against you...
You do know that a lot of the HDB contracts for entire flats are for 'corporate' leases right, eg SBS drivers? So, we should disallow corporate leases for HDB?
Not so easy after all.
Allthepies
07-12-13, 10:48
You do know that a lot of the HDB contracts for entire flats are for 'corporate' leases right, eg SBS drivers? So, we should disallow corporate leases for HDB?
Not so easy after all.
Build hostel to house them :)
Build hostel to house them :)
Err, I heard that SBS seems to be v proud of the fact that their drivers are 'integrated' into the HDB community, unlike another GLC transport co. that employs PRC drivers and house them in hostels. Practically, there are not enuff hostels also in land scarce SG.
Another case in point, I know of retirees who would rent out their entire 3 room HDB flat to tenants, while they themselves rent a HDB room elsewhere. The reason is subletting entire flat helps them with higher rental income, as compared to renting out 1 room only. This group would be affected by proposals to rent to families only.
These are all v complicated issues, which have to be carefully considered. Not an envious job certainly for the politicians & civil service heads. Though it can be argued that we do pay gd money for them to come up with solutions...... :)
Shoeboxes units to gain in demand.
Old large PC units and landed face risk of being turned into squatters.
princess_morbucks
07-12-13, 14:13
They should just revert to old rule, ie own HDB and pte property can, but cannot let out HDB, ie HDB for own stay.
As to where the foreigners going to stay, it is up to the government or employer to subsidize their stay in non HDB estates.
So? It is ok for this to happen in private property?
According to the presumed logic, HDB is heavily subsidised and must fulfil national agenda. Private as the name implies should remain regulated by private entities.
Political move. Pte properties have much worse enclave situation.
I agree as MPs (not sure whether how many have ever stayed in HDB before) must be seen listening to the ground. This is not a big issue in public housing yet as so far limited to certain blocks in estate with close proximity to workplace with huge foreigners working.
Foreign enclaves already up and running in CCRs (many), D15 (eg. Meyer Rd, mandarin Gdn), D17(Melville P), heard that D22(near the oil refinery Jurong island too).
What you said did not make sense.
If allow retirees to rent out whole HDB flats, where are they going to live if they are poor?
If rent out 1 room or 2 room, how much rental can they get? They are better off selling the 4 or 5 room flats and buy a studio. Less trouble with tenants and abuse by tenants too.
Funding condo purchase using HDB rental? Is that the govt's responsibility/job?
V gd point. Noted that those who advocate returning HDB to their roots and disallow rental, are mainly those who have either sold their HDB flats or have ventured straight into private property.
They do not realise that the retirement problem will only get worse in the coming years, without HDB rental income. Thanks to Mah, the Govt is now stuck and the policy can't be easily u-turned without devastating effects on (a) the lower income group, and (b) those who are funding/planning to fund their condo purchase with HDB rental.
The thing is, >=85% of people live in HDB flats, and many of these residents (as opposed to those who own HDB flats and rent their HDB flats out to anybody room by room etc) are fed up with irresponsible low-income foreign workers who do not have manners living beside them.
Condos, well, are private and should be left to market forces since people who buy condos don't get subsidy from govt (who in turn get these revenue from public / citizens / residents) and they form <= 10% of properties in Singapore, and also the fact that few, if any, citizens living in condos are complaining about their foreign neighbours (in contrast to the lots of complains from citizens living in HDB flats).
I agree as MPs (not sure whether how many have ever stayed in HDB before) must be seen listening to the ground. This is not a big issue in public housing yet as so far limited to certain blocks in estate with close proximity to workplace with huge foreigners working.
Foreign enclaves already up and running in CCRs (many), D15 (eg. Meyer Rd, mandarin Gdn), D17(Melville P), heard that D22(near the oil refinery Jurong island too).
Ya why didn't anyone question this. Ok noted. Will raise it.
Err, I heard that SBS seems to be v proud of the fact that their drivers are 'integrated' into the HDB community, unlike another GLC transport co. that employs PRC drivers and house them in hostels. Practically, there are not enuff hostels also in land scarce SG.
Another case in point, I know of retirees who would rent out their entire 3 room HDB flat to tenants, while they themselves rent a HDB room elsewhere. The reason is subletting entire flat helps them with higher rental income, as compared to renting out 1 room only. This group would be affected by proposals to rent to families only.
These are all v complicated issues, which have to be carefully considered. Not an envious job certainly for the politicians & civil service heads. Though it can be argued that we do pay gd money for them to come up with solutions...... :)
They should just revert to old rule, ie own HDB and pte property can, but cannot let out HDB, ie HDB for own stay.
As to where the foreigners going to stay, it is up to the government or employer to subsidize their stay in non HDB estates.
The govt did somewhat like this. They chase away people from old flats claiming SER then tidy up these old flats and rent out to foreigners.
What you said did not make sense.
If allow retirees to rent out whole HDB flats, where are they going to live if they are poor?
If rent out 1 room or 2 room, how much rental can they get? They are better off selling the 4 or 5 room flats and buy a studio. Less trouble with tenants and abuse by tenants too.
Funding condo purchase using HDB rental? Is that the govt's responsibility/job?
The point is people want a backup plan. If this source is cut off, and we know it's over 85% of the SG residents then things will turn nasty. CBCB will start and govt will have headache. Only those who do not rent will be pleased. What's the percentage? SG is getting interesting.
Allthepies
07-12-13, 15:43
Tat why I say as long as each HDB unit allow only to be rented out to 1 real family, not a family of "squatters" then the situation will vastly improved....
This is the only reasonable solution I can think of currently to balance between passive income and disturbance to HDB neighbours.
princess_morbucks
07-12-13, 15:47
Tat why I say as long as each HDB unit allow only to be rented out to 1 real family, not a family of "squatters" then the situation will vastly improved....
The foreigner may not be able to afford the rental if his is the only family renting it.
The foreigner may not be able to afford the rental if his is the only family renting it.
Most are singles. Why would they want to rent whole flats?
Since majority of SG HDB residents are fed up with ill-mannered foreigners living next to them and/or foreigners forming enclaves / clusters, then something will have to be done about HDB rental. How they are going to do is up to them. I don't believe the backup plan of these majority who are complaining is to rent out their flat and where are they going to live then (since majority are not rich enough to have another private property to live in). And, aren't we told that SG govt will not yield to populist policy? Have they become too soft and is unwilling to implement policy that is good for the people and the country in the long-term just because majority are against it because of self-interest and are looking at the short-term? :o
The point is people want a backup plan. If this source is cut off, and we know it's over 85% of the SG residents then things will turn nasty. CBCB will start and govt will have headache. Only those who do not rent will be pleased. What's the percentage? SG is getting interesting.
Allthepies
07-12-13, 23:53
The foreigner may not be able to afford the rental if his is the only family renting it.
How about if you have 3 bedrooms, you can only rent to 3 different individuals.... and not 6 or 9 or 12 packing the living room, dining room, kitchen
Allthepies
08-12-13, 08:05
The foreigner may not be able to afford the rental if his is the only family renting it.
Either the landlords reduce their rents or leave their units vacant.... additional plus point to keep the cost of living down..
HDB have imposed rules that limit the number of chinese, malay and indian owners. So what is the big deal on limiting the number of foreigners in every hdb estate? I think this is fair. You limit Singaporean and don't limit foreigner. That is not fair.
Also I believe those who depend on rental from HDB to survive is really a small number of people. So are we going to just protect the rental for this small group of people and sacrifice the well being of majority of the people staying in HDB?
The govt is rebalancing the fragile tussle between capitalism and a healthy social fabric.
Either extreme is no good.
I think their statistic is wrong.
They are looking at how many rooms are rented out versus the total rooms available to come to conclusion of anyway from 10% to as high as 19% in a block is rented out.
However, assuming one 3rm flat typically house 3.5 pax , but we know the landlords are renting one 3rm flat to 6-9pax .. LOL.. so the percentage should be as high as 30% to 60% (must muliple by factor of 2 min and 3 max).
Yeah... Back to basic for HDB.. poor will remain poor...
Coz the people wanted it. They get wat they ask for.
Since majority of SG HDB residents are fed up with ill-mannered foreigners living next to them and/or foreigners forming enclaves / clusters, then something will have to be done about HDB rental. How they are going to do is up to them. I don't believe the backup plan of these majority who are complaining is to rent out their flat and where are they going to live then (since majority are not rich enough to have another private property to live in). And, aren't we told that SG govt will not yield to populist policy? Have they become too soft and is unwilling to implement policy that is good for the people and the country in the long-term just because majority are against it because of self-interest and are looking at the short-term? :o
U seem to imply Singaporean are very mannered? Lol. Many can't even clean up their table after they eat.
there are some estates especially near business parks or industrial estates witha higher concentration, this will have a dilutive effect tht is socially positive.
Tat why I say as long as each HDB unit allow only to be rented out to 1 real family, not a family of "squatters" then the situation will vastly improved....
This is the only reasonable solution I can think of currently to balance between passive income and disturbance to HDB neighbours.
Yep, difference between a family nucleus and a family of squatters is huge. I'd say a family nucleus tenant tends to be much more responsible and create less problem in general. I've got a friend renting out her place in City Square to a family of squatters, and they never seem to ever clean their common space resulting in permanent stain marks on the floor.
Patrickstar
08-12-13, 15:24
Majority of hdb blocks are occupied by locals, what enclave are they talking about?
3m locals vs 2.4m foreigners+PRs ... Enclaves always been there since there's literally insignificant integration ...
In other countries ... 5% of any foreign is already considered very high
Unless one is so oblivious to their surroundings or they are super introvert ... One should have easily notice it
I don't see how they can easily implement or even enforce such rental quota .. Unless the number of flats are not that high...
Law in Singapore is to tell the people not to break it. If they think they are above the law than the Law will bring them to task.
You don't need policeman all over Singapore, you need Law that make people who want to break it think twice.
ROI very low. Need to educate them not to do this type of investment.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/man-arrested-for-armed/909826.html
Police on Wednesday arrested a 35-year-old man suspected of committing armed robbery at Geylang Bahru.
After parking the car, the man demanded for the woman's valuables which included a smartphone, a wristwatch valued at about S$2,000, ATM cards, a credit card, about S$200 in cash and US$200 in cash.
If convicted, he may be jailed up to 10 years and given at least 12 strokes of the cane.
Tenant who don't understand what is Law. Two week to move out of my house and I have to included this into my next tenant agreement that they will pay for the noise activities.
TERMINATION OF SUBLETTING APPROVAL AT APT XXXXXXXXXXXXX
I refer to our email dated 27 Aug 2010 regarding noise nuisance from your unit.
2 We have received another feedback on 20 Nov 2010 that the occupiers (i.e. subtenants) in the flat are causeing noise nuisance again late at night. We have previously sought your co-operation in April 2010 and Aug 2010 to inform your subtenants to reduce their noise activities.
3 Despite HDB's constant reminder to you to reduce the noise activities and in view of the constant noise actitvities that are of disturbance to the harmonious living environment, HDB hereby, will revoke the subletting approval dated 1 April 2007 by giving you two weeks' notice. Please ensure that the subtenants are to vacate the premises at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX by 7 Dec 2010.
They should just revert to old rule, ie own HDB and pte property can, but cannot let out HDB, ie HDB for own stay.
As to where the foreigners going to stay, it is up to the government or employer to subsidize their stay in non HDB estates.
Then overall cost goes up again. Coz housing the employee cost goes up. An ur daiy services will be increased.
According to the presumed logic, HDB is heavily subsidised and must fulfil national agenda. Private as the name implies should remain regulated by private entities.
National agenda also include giveing each Singaporean to participate in the country growth. Ie assets. Allow rental to allow people to generate retirement income is also a fair policy.
What you said did not make sense.
If allow retirees to rent out whole HDB flats, where are they going to live if they are poor?
If rent out 1 room or 2 room, how much rental can they get? They are better off selling the 4 or 5 room flats and buy a studio. Less trouble with tenants and abuse by tenants too.
Funding condo purchase using HDB rental? Is that the govt's responsibility/job?
Put scenario so simple. There are retirees who rent out n go stay with their children. Having their own income gives them dignity . At the same time allow them no to fully be dependent on their kids! So not add burden on their kids.
Really? Renting a few rooms can generate 600-1000. To u very little to a retiree or family who need $ is a lot!
U talk bs a lot.
Build hostel to house them :)
I think the best solution is Singaporean encourage their kids to be bus drivers. Just not my kids.
I m speaking the mind of those many xenophobics.
tonite the reason is VERY apparent why we need such controls:eek:
Totally agree.. What happen yesterday have just show why Khaw want to implement this policy. So any more question on this point?
Totally agree.. What happen yesterday have just show why Khaw want to implement this policy. So any more question on this point?
sorry, even if these measures are instilled, the indians will still flock from all over the island to congregate at Little India during weekends.
They will have to control at source, ie. in little india. They may have to have more police patrolling in all the other areas with congregation of foreigners on weekend.
sorry, even if these measures are instilled, the indians will still flock from all over the island to congregate at Little India during weekends.
They will have to control at source, ie. in little india. They may have to have more police patrolling in all the other areas with congregation of foreigners on weekend.
it is hard to enforce, in my opinion. how will the police deny them the rights and access to public space?
just as an example, look at lucky plaza and the walkways along it till tung building during weekends, packed with pinoys seating all around picnicking. i don't see police shooing them off.
Totally agree.. What happen yesterday have just show why Khaw want to implement this policy. So any more question on this point?
wrong. most of the foreign workers stay in dormitories. This kind of thing wouldn't happen if they had proper living conditions. U let them stay in hdb flat would be much better than them not staying in one at all.
well, the riot was certainly not caused by a protest of poor living conditions
Totally agree.. What happen yesterday have just show why Khaw want to implement this policy. So any more question on this point?
You obviously have short memory, actually Singaporeans have all along been unhappy with foreigners living in their midst, but our great ministers keep on saying to locals...."foreigners are good, foreigners are needed, Singaporeans should welcome and integrate with them".........so what happened to the integration part? Just thrown out of the window with this fantastic U turn. We pay them millions for U turn policies and you agree?
One stone kills many birds it is like those novel written by Jing Yong's swordman chu with his finger stance of striking out one pellet that zooms in on multiple MAjor targets....
- happy for those who kao peh kao bu of HDB landlords where they can never be one...even if they can be one in the future(who knows) they kill their own chance...(be careful of what u ask for, do not be myopic)..
- directing on the feedbacks of issues/complaints of many foreigners in HDB
- Warn those people who ya ya pa pa ya that keep on boosting their HDB rental is giving good returns (remind me of a bird who bathes in warm pond during winter keep on singing happily to let others know and at the end attract a cat to eat it up!! lol)...don't cho run...can let u eat but can also take yr cake away...don't make people ang buck and cause problems...
- warn those who have the thought of buying HDB to get rental to rethink their strategy as even if u can buy are u sure u can rent out? this include Sgrean and PRs)....
Reflect on IT!!! U GET what U ask FOR LOL :cheers1:
(Note: Don't forget this is internet...the whole world is reading what u say..u are not living in yr own world which ironically those common users of internet always think they are...)
it is hard to enforce, in my opinion. how will the police deny them the rights and access to public space?
just as an example, look at lucky plaza and the walkways along it till tung building during weekends, packed with pinoys seating all around picnicking. i don't see police shooing them off.
alot of pinoys are also having picnic at Botanic gardens nowadays ... maybe that's why they now talk about protecting the trees haha
alot of pinoys are also having picnic at Botanic gardens nowadays ... maybe that's why they now talk about protecting the trees haha
Botanic Gardens is now in UNESCO's tentative list.
http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/5786/
3m locals vs 2.4m foreigners+PRs ... Enclaves always been there since there's literally insignificant integration ...
In other countries ... 5% of any foreign is already considered very high
Unless one is so oblivious to their surroundings or they are super introvert ... One should have easily notice it
I don't see how they can easily implement or even enforce such rental quota .. Unless the number of flats are not that high...
Yesterday I could not sleep. Yes, we have almost equal number of residents now. I have to add that 3m locals is not a correct reflection. Not every Singaporeans are in Singapore. If you do not include those who are away for studies, work or holidays, we have a much smaller number.
Immediately after having that thought, I locked my doors and windows before I went to bed. I don't feel safe yesterday.
alot of pinoys are also having picnic at Botanic gardens nowadays ... maybe that's why they now talk about protecting the trees haha
erm, they don't chop down trees for firewood leh.....
actually the pinoy also picnic in hk, so not just sg only. They picnic everywhere....
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/archive/saturday/premium/top-stories/mnd-cap-hdb-flats-rented-foreigners-20131207
Published December 07, 2013
MND to cap HDB flats rented to foreigners
Caps for each block will exclude Malaysians and be applicable only to the subletting of whole flats
By Mindy Tan
[email protected]
THE Ministry of National Development (MND) will impose a cap on the number of flats that can be sublet to foreigners in each Housing and Development Board block.
While the appropriate cap has yet to be decided, Minister of National Development Khaw Boon Wan said in his blog post, Preventing Foreigner Enclaves, yesterday that he was "mindful of the need to balance the impact on those who rely on subletting for additional income, especially the elderly".
Said an HDB spokeswoman: "We are finalising the details of the cap, which will exclude Malaysians, in view of their close cultural and historical similarities with Singaporeans. The cap will only be applicable to the subletting of whole flats. MND and HDB are targeting to finalise all the details soon. We will announce the details once they are ready for implementation."
The way the cap is ministered could be similar to the way quotas on the number of Singapore Permanent Residents (SPR) allowed to purchase resale flats are measured, said Eugene Lim, key executive officer at ERA Realty. For resale flats, the SPR quota is set at 5 per cent and 8 per cent at the neighbourhood and block levels respectively, and is applied in addition to the existing Ethnic Integration Policy limits.
"To the HDB owner who is subletting his unit, if the foreigner ratio is filled for his block or his neighbourhood, it simply means he can only sublet to locals. By having less tenants to choose from, you may end up with lower rentals," said Mr Lim.
Alternatively, the ratio could be calculated based on the owner's leasing history in terms of how frequently the flat owner has leased the flat to foreigners in the past, said Ong Kah Seng, director at R'ST Research.
Currently, more than 35,000 flats, representing less than 4 per cent of all HDB flats, are sublet to foreigners, excluding Malaysians. This figure refers to the subletting of the entire HDB flat, and not rooms. However, the proportion could go up to 9 per cent in some areas, or even 18 per cent in some blocks, Mr Khaw said on his blog yesterday.
There is no existing cap on the number of HDB flats sublet to foreign tenants.
With tighter caps, however, more foreigners might move to private residential properties, particularly older apartments which tend to have lower rents, suggested R'ST Research's Mr Ong.
"Also, the size of an old apartment's bedroom is usually larger, so it can cater to foreigners who still wish to co-share a bedroom to defray occupancy costs," said Mr Ong.
Mr Khaw had said earlier this year during a debate on his ministry's Budget that the government would implement a quota. This was in response to a call from West Coast GRC MP Foo Mee Har for a quota of 10 per cent to address her worry that foreign enclaves were sprouting.
"I agreed with MP Foo Mee Har that we need to maintain the Singaporean character of our heartlands. In principle, MND has agreed to impose such a cap. The question is at what level," said Mr Khaw.
Mohamed Ismail, chief executive of PropNex Realty, reckoned that 10 per cent was a good level, adding that he did not expect the cap to have any impact on the rental market.
"This will mainly even out the foreign enclaves in each estate," said Mr Ismail. "However, as there is a need to fulfil some of these criteria, rental of the flats may take a longer process."
hdb in little india will be badly affected
It is perfectly natural for people to want to mix around and gather with like people.
The challenge is in how to provide a safe and conducive environment or venue for them to do that instead of simply "letting nature take its course" where they just form enclaves and picnic spots without consideration of the environment nor pollution.
Theoretically, Singapore is touted as a Garden City.
Picnics are encouraged in gardens.
Thus we should expect picnics at any corner or turn of the street.
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