View Full Version : A RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND HOME, The case for women in National Service
CondoInterested
15-10-13, 11:40
To Mr Tan
Mr Charles Tan Meah Yang, before writing such articles, besides coming clean by
- declaring you aren't any relatives of any prominent TAN families here (although TAN is Singaporean chinese big surname) in Singapore
- declaring you have served NS
- declaring what is your vocation in NS
- better still declaring you are once a regular SAF personnel if you are and why you quit to the next job
- declaring you are still serving your "reservists"
- declaring you are going to encourage and ensure some or all of your female family members (your mother, your mother in law, your wife, your daughters, your sisters, your cousins) to sign on as full time regular SAF personnel (lead by example, don't just write)
- declaring that you are working here in Singapore (oops, just don't do that because it will telling lies as you are now working in London)To Mr Tan and Voters' servants
Considering the composition of Singapore inhabitants living or working here (those having some form of $$$ contribution to your masters who rightfully they are not masters but should be the voters' servants), the non citizen number is almost near the number of citizen and sometimes from now it may either be the same or even more than citizens. When time comes (maybe 2030), when foreigners (PRs included) outnumber citizens, isn't it another form of invisible invasion of your motherland, so honestly when that time comes, what are we citizens defending when citizens are the minority?
In order to prevent this outnumber thing from happening, all new Citizens and PRs must start to serve NS (may no need to be military form for the older ones) and if not, they will be downgraded with PR taken away if they do not serve NS.
Although PR's sons must serve NS under current law and finally be citizen after serving, but their sons are given a choice not to do so by giving up their rights. The sons of PR should not be given a choice, if they don't serve NS, their parents PR status should be taken away. This should make more sense than bring in the women folks to NS (military form).
Regarding women folks serving NS, why not have a referendum by allowing the citizen to vote for or against?
Charles (are you relative to Prince Charles?), what do you think?
http://www.todayonline.com/print-edition/am/15-10-2013 Page 8-9
http://www.todayonline.com/print-edition/frame-page-view?url=http://www.todayonline.com/sites/default/files/1510_AP_page_9.pdf&type=pdf&date=15102013&filename=1510_AP§ion=Commentary&pagenumber=9&referer=http://www.todayonline.com/print-edition/am/15-10-2013
TODAY, Tuesday, 15 October 2013
A RESPONSIBILITY TO DEFEND HOME
The case for women in National Service
Charles Tan Meah Yang
While the recently released Institute of Policy Studies survey reveals ambivalence over whether National Service (NS) should be obligatory for women, my stand on the matter is unequivocal: Yes, it should.
In a TODAY commentary last week, Mr Ho Shu Huang made an eloquent case for increasing efforts to accommodate volunteerism but, again, the manifest inequality embedded in the suggestion is that women should have a choice while men don’t — which I believe to be wrong on a number of levels.
It has long irked me that NS should be a “male-only” affair: A sacred institution to be preserved, unquestioned like Catholic priesthood.
This is not because I am some hardline pro-feminism campaigner seeking equality for all. Rather, you might view me as a men’s-rights advocate, seeking to redress a gross injustice.
The justifications for this discriminatory policy are numerous, although some hold more merit than others. They range from physical endowment (men tend to be stronger) and economics (drafting women in would further reduce GDP), to inherent responsibility (as my friend so eloquently put it: “I already have to give birth, what more do you want from me?”).
However, I think all these justifications fail for one reason or another. Firstly, physical strength and fitness are not prerequisites for military service; they simply discount combat roles, a rule which already applies to a significant proportion of servicemen.
Also, drafting women in while keeping the current term for men unchanged would indeed lower economic output, but the increased human resource and burden-sharing means shorter service terms would be required from all involved, mitigating the overall impact on our economy.
Conditional relief can also be provided to women who have children (such as a reduction in NS reservist liability), but to waive basic military training altogether on the basis of something as arbitrary as gender is, to me, an indefensible stance.
A MORAL IMPERATIVE
But, rather than tearing down the arguments why women should not sign up for NS, I believe the right way to think about this is to ask why they should. To me, it is a matter of moral imperative.
As a Singaporean, I have a responsibility to contribute to the defence of that which I call home.
The Total Defence framework rightly lists military defence first because, without the physical preservation of our sovereignty, the other four defences — civil, economic, social and psychological — are moot.
The overarching importance of the military to protecting our nation, coupled with the moral obligation for all of us, man or woman, to contribute towards that security, is what I believe justifies the enlistment of women.
I get the sense that the existing NS policy might be rooted in an outdated notion of machismo — where men are viewed as the rightful protectors, while women wait to be rescued from distress.
This is obviously not the case today — and has not been for some time now — and such backward thinking has no place in a modern society such as ours, which espouses the ideals of female emancipation and equal opportunity.
If there is one thing I am sure of, it is that one cannot legislate equality — but legislation should strive not to create or exacerbate inequality.
Unfortunately, that is what the current lopsided NS law does, by creating a not-so-insignificant two-year gap between men and women from the same academic cohort, rather than making each take a “gap year” for NS (a caveat: I know the real maths will not work out as simply as 2 + 0 = 1 + 1).
In my opinion, legislation should aspire to treat all individuals equally, and to encourage each to contribute to the best of his/her ability.
That is what a law requiring women to serve NS would do.
LAST BASTION?
As a parting thought, I must confess a sneaking suspicion that part of the reason such blatant “male-only” institutions still exist is a misguided (and, ultimately, futile) desire of men to cling on to the fading embers of power — especially in a world where women are increasingly proving to be just as good, if not superior, in many fields.
Perhaps, the fear is that if we let the camel’s nose in the tent then, god forbid, we would have lost the last bastion of masculine pride, should women turn out to be better fighter pilots and military strategists than men.
My stand on the matter, however, is that “no girls allowed” policies should be confined to the domain of one’s childhood play spaces.
Any man or institution, for that matter, deserving of respect should embrace change and challenge as opportunities to prove one’s worth.
History has not been kind to those who adopt close-minded exclusionary policies to secure their influence.
Charles Tan Meah Yang is a Singaporean investment analyst currently working in London.
I get the sense that the existing NS policy might be rooted in an outdated notion of machismo, where men are viewed as the rightful protectors, while women wait to be rescued from distress. Legislation should aspire to treat all individuals equally, and to encourage each to contribute to the best of his/ her ability.
Women SAF personnel at a military exhibition. The writer believes National Service should not be a ‘male-only’ affair.
CondoInterested
15-10-13, 23:49
Can someone help with a mini referendum / voting here?
1) Support full time NS and NSwomen for our daughters
2) Support only volunteer service for our daughters
3) Neutral, don't want to use my brain to think too much
4) Huh? What? Where got time? / Strongly against full time NS and NSwomen for our daughters
5) PRs' sons should be like Singaporeans' son, must serve first, else their parents FO back to their country
6) Don't waste time, best all (sons and daughters) NS are volunteer basis because we also want our sons to Uni graduate / start work earlier
7) After Uni graduate then serve and pay full market rate Uni grads salary during NS and not cheap allowance worst than Banglas' pay.
Can choose more than one.
the question is WHO are we serving NS for the whole WORLD cos singapore is
a united nations with so many nationalities living here:doh::doh::doh:
for the record i have served and completed my NS with pride many many moons ago but back then i knew i was doing NATIONAL service for SINGAPORE:cheers1:
govt is hopeless.
why can't they think out of box solution?
like jihad-al-nikah for eg? it is a back-support, non-combat role.
then i am 99.99% sure no guys will not like NS anymore.
CondoInterested
17-10-13, 08:29
http://www.todayonline.com/print-edition/frame-page-view?url=http://www.todayonline.com/sites/default/files/1610_AP_page_22.pdf&type=pdf&date=16102013&filename=1610_AP§ion=Voices&pagenumber=22&referer=http://www.todayonline.com/print-edition/am/16-10-2013
TODAY, Wed, 16 October 2013
Objective of NS is to bolster defence, not foster equality
From Tan Si An
In his commentary, Mr Charles Tan presses “The case for women in National Service” (Oct 15) because legislation should treat all individuals equally and encourage each to contribute to the best of his/her ability.
But a draft is not an encouragement; it is coercion with threat of punishment.
Mr Tan has lost sight of the main objective of National Service (NS): To bolster Singapore’s defence, not foster equality. He is not alone, which compromises our security. The Institute of Policy Studies (IPS) found that many view the main task of NS as instilling discipline and values into the young.
Mr Tan’s suspicion that the male only policy of NS is due to a “notion of machismo” could not be further from the truth. I speak for many pragmatic Singaporeans in saying that most would rather further their studies or build their career.
And some men feel emasculated when they have to report at work to a woman of the same age because of NS.
There is nothing to stop women from signing on as a regular or volunteering. But if there are no compelling operational needs, why impose liability just to fulfil some highfalutin ideals?
There are more straightforward suggestions to redress gross injustices for men, like repealing the obsolete Women’s Charter or simply lowering the NS liability. Make no mistake, it is a liability to those serving and to their families, employers, even co-workers.
Therefore, such beggar-thy-neighbour suggestions to conscript women or first-generation permanent residents, for the sake of social equality or integration, are not grounded in hard-headed reality.
These suggestions arise because the institution of NS is viewed as sacrosanct. Yet, to many, the possibility of foreign military threats is remote, while the threat of being replaced at work, in an increasingly globalised and competitive market, is real.
The Fair Consideration Framework is a recognition of this reality. The IPS survey also shows that two out of five servicemen believe that employers prefer to hire those without NS commitments.
Brain drain and losing out in the war for talent are clear and present dangers to Singapore. Businesses and talents are globally mobile, and foreigners do consider NS liability for their sons when deciding whether to be a PR or citizen.
It is easy to support having someone else do something, like the 22 per cent of women in the survey who agreed that women should serve fulltime NS. Yet, only 9.3 per cent said they would do so.
Just as the Government urges companies to accept the reality of labour shortage and be more productive by replacing labour with capital, the Singapore Armed Forces must recognise the high cost of manpower, which is hard for it to do when such costs are externalised via conscription.
While Singaporeans should not be complacent about the security we enjoy, the Government should also be vigilant about the increased human capital opportunity cost from continued conscription, and ensure that it is not done for the sake of it.
While Singaporeans should not be complacent about the security we enjoy, the Government should also be vigilant about the increased human capital opportunity cost from continued conscription, and ensure that it is not done for the sake of it.
When the males in the country dont even have the balls to defend thier own property, family, wife n children. then its a failure of the generation. whine n whine abt NS.
When the invaders come rape their asses then complain n complain. The myopic and selfish mentality that defending their country should be done by other people. show how ballless the generation have become.
Even now envy why woman never do NS. Like my woman friend say. THE DAY the MAN can POP another human out of their PENIS then they have the right to ask woman to serve NS.
I think the generation should send your maid to NS on your behalf.. Oppss. complain again coz maid is FT too..
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Allthepies
17-10-13, 10:37
When the males in the country dont even have the balls to defend thier own property, family, wife n children. then its a failure of the generation. whine n whine abt NS.
When the invaders come rape their asses then complain n complain. The myopic and selfish mentality that defending their country should be done by other people. show how ballless the generation have become.
Even now envy why woman never do NS. Like my woman friend say. THE DAY the MAN can POP another human out of their PENIS then they have the right to ask woman to serve NS.
I think the generation should send your maid to NS on your behalf.. Oppss. complain again coz maid is FT too..
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Fully agree with your point.
Peace is very fragile, we can be laughing and shaking hand in public but below the surface, you don't see the evil greedy murderous grin. ....
before we even talk about whether women shd do ns or not, the firs qn shd be is there a need for it? our ns shrunk from 2.5 years to 2 years.. do u tink we need women to come in?
if 2 person can do a job, u dont deploy more, especially in singapore.
and ns has got nothin to do with whether men can pop babies from penis or not. if suddenly the population become 500k, i believe women oso must do ns, in a role that suit them.
Personally, I think every citizen has the responsibility to do NS whether male or female
By National Service, it does not necessarily mean serving in the front line as
combat soldiers.
The initial conscription of NS was to get the country in Ready Mode in time of emergency and external threat.
The males of course shall be in the front line and the female can be trained and serve in the supporting roles as in radar and communication which is vital in any state of emergency and threat. They can also be trained in First Aid and in maintaining the internal social law and order and also organizing counseling and support group for the old folks and children.
just my thinking
the women's NS duty is to have 3 or more within their lifetime.
because they fail to perform their NS duty in the last 30 years, the country is now being invaded by foreigners.
the women's NS duty is to have 3 or more within their lifetime.
because they fail to perform their NS duty in the last 30 years, the country is now being invaded by foreigners.
LKY is the culprit with his stop-at-two policy.
the women's NS duty is to have 3 or more within their lifetime.
because they fail to perform their NS duty in the last 30 years, the country is now being invaded by foreigners.
it is the duty of men to perform life time NS.
because they failed to perform their NS duty in the last 30 years, the country is now being invaded by foreigners. as a result, women nid to come out from the kitchen & help them fullfill their duties.
LKY is the culprit with his stop-at-two policy.
So now he is atoning for that policy by opening the Immigration Door wide wide .................OMG :scared-4::scared-4::doh:
by lifetime means until 40 years of age.
Women childbearing age is until 40. after that, the chances of defects are too high. That's why men NS duty ends at 40 also.
we have equality of sexes.
so let me rephrase: women are failing their duty to the country, to the nation,to have 3 or more by 40.
How can it be? Didnt you hear from august that the government played a role like prohibiting woman to have more than 2 kids policy?
by lifetime means until 40 years of age.
Women childbearing age is until 40. after that, the chances of defects are too high. That's why men NS duty ends at 40 also.
we have equality of sexes.
so let me rephrase: women are failing their duty to the country, to the nation,to have 3 or more by 40.
by lifetime means until 40 years of age.
Women childbearing age is until 40. after that, the chances of defects are too high. That's why men NS duty ends at 40 also.
we have equality of sexes.
so let me rephrase: women are failing their duty to the country, to the nation,to have 3 or more by 40.
lol ... I totally mis-interpreted yr post!
my bad!
How can it be? Didnt you hear from august that the government played a role like prohibiting woman to have more than 2 kids policy?
he might not be a true blue Singaporean to noe such history :47:
So now he is atoning for that policy by opening the Immigration Door wide wide .................OMG :scared-4::scared-4::doh:
父债子还? :D :D
How can it be? Didnt you hear from august that the government played a role like prohibiting woman to have more than 2 kids policy?
the ban was reversed in the 80's. yet why didnt the womenfolk increase the production after it was gostan.
the fault then lies in the womenfolk. they want freedom without responsibility.
as a result, we are being invaded by foreigners.
u see womenfolk like mermaid, they want the comfort of singapore, yet doesnt want the responsibility of keeping Singapore for singaporeans.
what will the next generation of singaporeans face? more invaders that's wat.
the ban was reversed in the 80's. yet why didnt the womenfolk increase the production after it was gostan.
the fault then lies in the womenfolk. they want freedom without responsibility.
as a result, we are being invaded by foreigners.
mermaid hit 40yo in the 80s, hence alrdy passed the age of "NS" :p
u see womenfolk like mermaid, they want the comfort of singapore, yet doesnt want the responsibility of keeping Singapore for singaporeans.
what will the next generation of singaporeans face? more invaders that's wat.
oei, oei, oei ... dun anyhow malign me hor! :( mermaid is single how to do NS :simmering:
mermaid hit 40yo in the 80s, hence alrdy passed the age of "NS" :p
oei, oei, oei ... dun anyhow malign me hor! :( mermaid is single how to do NS :simmering:
can la... 无名无份 those type loh.....
:D:D
mermaid hit 40yo in the 80s, hence alrdy passed the age of "NS" :p
oei, oei, oei ... dun anyhow malign me hor! :( mermaid is single how to do NS :simmering:
Be my 二奶
make sure you do your NS :D:D:ashamed1:
mermaid hit 40yo in the 80s, hence alrdy passed the age of "NS" :p
oei, oei, oei ... dun anyhow malign me hor! :( mermaid is single how to do NS :simmering:
Yes, the govt also at fault. They are too focus on marriage and they stigmatise teen pregnancies and single mothers.
Should have baby drops acroas the island.
Women prisoners who volunteer to act as surrogate mother would have their sentence reduced. Carry foetus for 9 months, cut sentence by 5 years. What a deal.
Those women drug traffickers facing death sentence, have 10 kids and they go free.
Any cost to government?
Imo, no cost at all other tham the usual bringing up & education expenses.
Benefits are a lot though.
Since orphans hve no parents, they are easily brain-washed to be loyal to govt. Each electiom, 100% orphan vote for pap.
Also, being orphans, they are well suited to go on suicide missions.
And orphans being loyal to govt, wil listen to govt orders.
Each female orphan will beget 10 new citizens.
Lets keep singapore for singaporeams, shall we.
Woman, do thy duty.
can la... 无名无份 those type loh.....
:D:D
chey! 无名无份谁会帮你生孩子！ :47:
Be my 二奶
make sure you do your NS :D:D:ashamed1:
没大没小! Im celebrating my 七十大寿 soon, boy :OldFart:
Yes, the govt also at fault. They are too focus on marriage and they stigmatise teen pregnancies and single mothers.
Lets keep singapore for singaporeams, shall we.
Woman, do thy duty.
not really govt's fault la. there r many women like mermaids liddat, ugly, fat, not highly educated, stupid, is bad genes sia :47:
It is ok, just like the unfit men serve as storekeeper.
There are other roles that women can play.
Eg for wombless women, they can be caregiver, milk-mother.
For singles, can be surrogate mother, milk-mother.
A suckling baby will not care whether the milkmother is fat & ugly. & stupid & hairy.
From each according to his ability.
It is ok, just like the unfit men serve as storekeeper.
There are other roles that women can play.
Eg for wombless women, they can be caregiver, milk-mother.
For singles, can be surrogate mother, milk-mother.
A suckling baby will not care whether the milkmother is fat & ugly. & stupid & hairy.
From each according to his ability.
u tink chin cai any woman can be surrogate mums? u go down a street ask an old woman see if she is capable of doing so :47:
u r so ignorant. not preggie how to be a milk mother? :doh:
u tis type of guy very bad. treating women as a child bearing machines! :hell-hath-no-fury:
u tink chin cai any woman can be surrogate mums? u go down a street ask an old woman see if she is capable of doing so :47:
u r so ignorant. not preggie how to be a milk mother? :doh:
u tis type of guy very bad. treating women as a child bearing machines! :hell-hath-no-fury:
can la, any woman is physically able to be a surrogate mum.
old woman also can. there is 61 year old woman who give birth to grandchild.
it is only a matter of hormones. given the right hormones, any non-pregnant woman (or man) will produce milk.
woman are precious, only they can bear child. hence man is ready to give live to defend woman. because without woman, there will not be any more next generation.
the explicit NS duty for men is to defend their family, country.
the implicit NS duty for women is to procreate. however singaporean woman have long close 2 eyes to their NS duties.
it is time for the govt to explicitly spell out this NS duty for women. For no children means no future Singapore.
can la, any woman is physically able to be a surrogate mum.
old woman also can. there is 61 year old woman who give birth to grandchild.
it is only a matter of hormones. given the right hormones, any non-pregnant woman (or man) will produce milk.
woman are precious, only they can bear child. hence man is ready to give live to defend woman. because without woman, there will not be any more next generation.
the explicit NS duty for men is to defend their family, country.
the implicit NS duty for women is to procreate. however singaporean woman have long close 2 eyes to their NS duties.
it is time for the govt to explicitly spell out this NS duty for women. For no children means no future Singapore.
in spore, it is harder & harder for women to fulfil NS la, honestly.
in the past women juz nid to give birth & look after family, now women nid to work.
& raising children is very exp in spore.
dun mention singles, many married couples oso dun wan to pro-create. tis is a hard truth.
dun worry, mayb medical advancement will be so gd tat in future, men can give birth too, given the rite hormones & womb :D
in spore, it is harder & harder for women to fulfil NS la, honestly.
in the past women juz nid to give birth & look after family, now women nid to work.
& raising children is very exp in spore.
dun mention singles, many married couples oso dun wan to pro-create. tis is a hard truth.
dun worry, mayb medical advancement will be so gd tat in future, men can give birth too, given the rite hormones & womb :D
i agree that it is expensive.
and that's why i disagreed strongly on the PAP stance of married couples/teen pregnancies for reasons already given. Orphans are the most loyal citizen, given the right conditioning.
Hopeful, you are dangerous man! This is so ...NAZI mindset! A mass production of a molded men/women!
Yes, the govt also at fault. They are too focus on marriage and they stigmatise teen pregnancies and single mothers.
Should have baby drops acroas the island.
Women prisoners who volunteer to act as surrogate mother would have their sentence reduced. Carry foetus for 9 months, cut sentence by 5 years. What a deal.
Those women drug traffickers facing death sentence, have 10 kids and they go free.
Any cost to government?
Imo, no cost at all other tham the usual bringing up & education expenses.
Benefits are a lot though.
Since orphans hve no parents, they are easily brain-washed to be loyal to govt. Each electiom, 100% orphan vote for pap.
Also, being orphans, they are well suited to go on suicide missions.
And orphans being loyal to govt, wil listen to govt orders.
Each female orphan will beget 10 new citizens.
Lets keep singapore for singaporeams, shall we.
Woman, do thy duty.
The damage has been done from 1969 to 1987! Come to 90's, the competition has gone so keen that women and men are working hard to achieve their dreams! Then, all the costs have shoot up to the roof that woman has to work to have dual income to sustain a family and save enough for retirement as they have very few offspring who can support their retirement! This is a vicious cycle as the women work very hard and got stress-up from work and from their kids' education. This has restrained women further to have more baby!
the ban was reversed in the 80's. yet why didnt the womenfolk increase the production after it was gostan.
the fault then lies in the womenfolk. they want freedom without responsibility.
as a result, we are being invaded by foreigners.
u see womenfolk like mermaid, they want the comfort of singapore, yet doesnt want the responsibility of keeping Singapore for singaporeans.
what will the next generation of singaporeans face? more invaders that's wat.
The damage has been done from 1969 to 1987! Come to 90's, the competition has gone so keen that women and men are working hard to achieve their dreams! Then, all the costs have shoot up to the roof that woman has to work to have dual income to sustain a family and save enough for retirement as they have very few offspring who can support their retirement! This is a vicious cycle as the women work very hard and got stress-up from work and from their kids' education. This has restrained women further to have more baby!
O really its just all becoz of cost?? LOL. complain complain again. what abt the fact everyone rather enjoy themselves go holiday, party and clubing plus spend time chasing their dream coz there are more opportunity then settle down be house wives.
talk cock a lot always want to complain n complain.
proud owner
18-10-13, 23:49
Should woman do NS ... YES YES YES
I am not going to argue about equality or defending the country ....
NS should instill some form of discipline in them ...
the past few years , we have seen a rise in number of crimes committed by female .. and sadly their sentences were always very lenient..
the law kind of let them off easy ...
sending the girls to NS (uniform group) will be good ... they can be Cooks in the camp, Admin work , etc etc ... but making put on Uniform and do some exercises and marching is good ...
look at our female teenagers now ... how many do house work ?
how many can cook ? sew ?
BUT they can all do hair, nails, make up, and some can even get 50 over men charged in court ... :doh:
btw how many want GF who are all tanned and ruffled with musscles etc or as cook smell like food in thier hair?
Oh then Crazy teddy will complain say NS take away the productive years from the woman. they could be having babies.! spend in NS thats why population is down!!!!! KPKB again.
proud owner
19-10-13, 00:15
btw how many want GF who are all tanned and ruffled with musscles etc or as cook smell like food in thier hair?
Oh then Crazy teddy will complain say NS take away the productive years from the woman. they could be having babies.! spend in NS thats why population is down!!!!! KPKB again.
I would want my gf (if still can have hahaha) to be tanned, toned, and can cook ...
rather then fair and pal like walking dead ..and can't cook
mind you all our mothers could cook and managed all the house hold chores .. they didn't always smell good ... do you love them less ?
Too much babies and poor leaving condition is not good.
Very prosper good leaving condition but not enough babies also not good.
Ideally government should help to create the environment so that the country in balance between babies and prosper. Easier to say it than doing it of course. But that is the fact.
proud owner
19-10-13, 00:28
Too much babies and poor leaving condition is not good.
Very prosper good leaving condition but not enough babies also not good.
Ideally government should help to create the environment so that the country in balance between babies and prosper. Easier to say it than doing it of course. But that is the fact.
in order to show the world that we are doing really well ... and have one of the highest reserve in the world ...
our govt is not spending money like how they shud ..
as mentioned by Minority ...Stop at 2 was the policy then ... people got used to it .. and could not turn ...
all those tax rebate for 1st 2nd child etc is not working
I suggest :
from the point of Pregnancy to delivery to 1st year ...
ALL medical expenses , child care, milk powder , diapers ... paid by govt..
I tell you ... you will see more new born straight away ...
this is more effective than giving tax rebate ...
unfortunately our govt is more keen to accumulate Reserves
I would want my gf (if still can have hahaha) to be tanned, toned, and can cook ...
rather then fair and pal like walking dead ..and can't cook
mind you all our mothers could cook and managed all the house hold chores .. they didn't always smell good ... do you love them less ?
how can compare relationship between child & mother with bf & gf?
2 different kind of love.
child & mother is agape love.
bf & gf is eros love
.......
from the point of Pregnancy to delivery to 1st year ...
ALL medical expenses , child care, milk powder , diapers ... paid by govt..
I tell you ... you will see more new born straight away ...
this is more effective than giving tax rebate ...
unfortunately our govt is more keen to accumulate Reserves
like that govt need to spend money.
better to use cpf system.
1) can use cpf to fully pay for pregnancy related expenses,
2) no children, withdraw cpf at 75
1 children, withdraw at 70
2 children, withdraw at 65
3 children, withdraw at 60
4 children, withdraw at 55.
the rationale given is that no children, so old folk need lots of cpf to look after themselves.
many children to look after, then old folk no need so much money, can take out earlier.
and guys being guys, will pressure their wives to have more kids so that they can withdraw cpf money earlier :)
proud owner
19-10-13, 01:01
how can compare relationship between child & mother with bf & gf?
2 different kind of love.
child & mother is agape love.
bf & gf is eros love
love for the female gender
proud owner
19-10-13, 01:07
like that govt need to spend money.
better to use cpf system.
1) can use cpf to fully pay for pregnancy related expenses,
2) no children, withdraw cpf at 75
1 children, withdraw at 70
2 children, withdraw at 65
3 children, withdraw at 60
4 children, withdraw at 55.
the rationale given is that no children, so old folk need lots of cpf to look after themselves.
many children to look after, then old folk no need so much money, can take out earlier.
and guys being guys, will pressure their wives to have more kids so that they can withdraw cpf money earlier :)
this is a disincentive ...
afterall CPF is your own money ... allowing one to withdraw at various ages will result in losing votes FOR SURE...
what I want to see is that the govt be seen SPENDING money on where they know the urgent need is ...
so far all they do is 'indirect' help
for once ... how about a straight forward help .. the moment the wife is tested positive to be pregnant... govt will take care of all the Standard expenses ... all the way to the baby is celebrate his 1st birthday ,,,
already couples are hearing SO much negativity, how expensive it is etc ..
Let the govt take care of the first 8 mth + 12 mth burden ...
this will work .. its a small amt ... but the benefit is that we will have our OWN population issue taken care of ...without having to import and create so much social unhappiness
this is a disincentive ...
afterall CPF is your own money ... allowing one to withdraw at various ages will result in losing votes FOR SURE...
what I want to see is that the govt be seen SPENDING money on where they know the urgent need is ...
so far all they do is 'indirect' help
for once ... how about a straight forward help .. the moment the wife is tested positive to be pregnant... govt will take care of all the Standard expenses ... all the way to the baby is celebrate his 1st birthday ,,,
already couples are hearing SO much negativity, how expensive it is etc ..
Let the govt take care of the first 8 mth + 12 mth burden ...
this will work .. its a small amt ... but the benefit is that we will have our OWN population issue taken care of ...without having to import and create so much social unhappiness
2 things pop up
1. road to hell is paved with good intentions.
2. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-04/not-yours-give
medicare, disability payments used to be small, overtime, it has expanded and covers more stuff becoming the monster it is now.
another example is the roman corn dole.
I would want my gf (if still can have hahaha) to be tanned, toned, and can cook ...
rather then fair and pal like walking dead ..and can't cook
mind you all our mothers could cook and managed all the house hold chores .. they didn't always smell good ... do you love them less ?
Dont think u want ur GF to cook army food? kill rabbit and snake or bbq iguana for u ;)?
I think I rather have a fair GF heh heh.
Too much babies and poor leaving condition is not good.
Very prosper good leaving condition but not enough babies also not good.
Ideally government should help to create the environment so that the country in balance between babies and prosper. Easier to say it than doing it of course. But that is the fact.
If only we live in a ideal world. but in a ideal world we would want a even more ideal world. never ending...
in order to show the world that we are doing really well ... and have one of the highest reserve in the world ...
our govt is not spending money like how they shud ..
as mentioned by Minority ...Stop at 2 was the policy then ... people got used to it .. and could not turn ...
all those tax rebate for 1st 2nd child etc is not working
I suggest :
from the point of Pregnancy to delivery to 1st year ...
ALL medical expenses , child care, milk powder , diapers ... paid by govt..
I tell you ... you will see more new born straight away ...
this is more effective than giving tax rebate ...
unfortunately our govt is more keen to accumulate Reserves
goverment pay for all expense will not help. once people get use to it then they will think goverment must take care and bring up the kids. must play mummy n dady too! coz if not real mommy n daddy no time to go golfing and shopping. frankly my grandparent time grandfather pay only $300-400 a mth. they have 10 kids. mum have to take care of kids and work apart time chors like tailoring. did they have problem with less kids? no.
Its not the $ its the quality of life people are use to. once u have the entertainment, enjoyment the freedom its no turning back. no want want to be stuck in the kitchen looking after 10 crying kids. Now people rather go holiday , go clubs. go drinking. go shopping have many FB. etc.
government can pay how much $$$ also no 1 want to give up their life style or career .
Maybe wat the people want is we go back become a fishing village. with no choice no lifestyle nothing to do. then the only entertaiment is F each other. then yeah u will get more babies.
Maybe to start is to cut internet. no internet in singapore. then people will stop looking at the iPhone ipad. or playing games online at night or watching netflix n youtube. and some some time Fing each other.
this is a disincentive ...
afterall CPF is your own money ... allowing one to withdraw at various ages will result in losing votes FOR SURE...
what I want to see is that the govt be seen SPENDING money on where they know the urgent need is ...
so far all they do is 'indirect' help
for once ... how about a straight forward help .. the moment the wife is tested positive to be pregnant... govt will take care of all the Standard expenses ... all the way to the baby is celebrate his 1st birthday ,,,
already couples are hearing SO much negativity, how expensive it is etc ..
Let the govt take care of the first 8 mth + 12 mth burden ...
this will work .. its a small amt ... but the benefit is that we will have our OWN population issue taken care of ...without having to import and create so much social unhappiness
Sure why not?. With that they should mover from indirect taxation to direct taxation. Increase tact for everyone to 50%. I m sure everyone is happy to pay more taxes and lice with double digit jobless rates.
I would want my gf (if still can have hahaha) to be tanned, toned, and can cook ...
rather then fair and pal like walking dead ..and can't cook
mind you all our mothers could cook and managed all the house hold chores .. they didn't always smell good ... do you love them less ?
wat if after NS, yr demure, timid, dependent, meek & cant cook gf became :
independent
can cook
can carry 10kg rice without u helping
brave
tanned
fit
swing arms while walking
shake legs while seated
fm C cup become A Cup
muscular wif biceps & 6 packs
talk to u in brotherly manner (machiam mermaid's tone)
will u love them less? :p
like that govt need to spend money.
better to use cpf system.
1) can use cpf to fully pay for pregnancy related expenses,
2) no children, withdraw cpf at 75
1 children, withdraw at 70
2 children, withdraw at 65
3 children, withdraw at 60
4 children, withdraw at 55.
the rationale given is that no children, so old folk need lots of cpf to look after themselves.
many children to look after, then old folk no need so much money, can take out earlier.
and guys being guys, will pressure their wives to have more kids so that they can withdraw cpf money earlier :)
tis type grandpa lee's style of ruling dun work on youngsters anymore, shushu!
wat if after NS, yr demure, timid, dependent, meek & cant cook gf became :
independent
can cook
can carry 10kg rice without u helping
brave
tanned
fit
swing arms while walking
shake legs while seated
fm C cup become A Cup
muscular wif biceps & 6 packs
talk to u in brotherly manner (machiam mermaid's tone)
will u love them less? :p
U left out can pee anywhere as long have a bush. :)
U left out can pee anywhere as long have a bush. :)
n now can share 1 pair of underwear...
n now can share 1 pair of underwear...
dun be silly! muahahaha! :D
dun be silly! muahahaha! :D
actually its a bad idea.. man will confuse about their own sexuality on the bed.....
actually its a bad idea.. man will confuse about their own sexuality on the bed.....
it is impossible in the 1st place -_-
it is impossible in the 1st place -_-
ya but it's funny to imagine dat happen..
Be my 二奶
make sure you do your NS :D:D:ashamed1:
that remind me of inspecting good and product prior making order..u don know what u are getting or getting more then you bargain for !!
skali she is already pass 80s in the silver years..
that remind me of inspecting good and product prior making order..u don know what u are getting or getting more then you bargain for !!
skali she is already pass 80s in the silver years..
the moral of the story... got er nai not necessary mean happier... can be more hell.
lol
the moral of the story... got er nai not necessary mean happier... can be more hell.
lol
got more properties happier la ...
at least u dun nid to worry it will run away.
and only u can ditch it if u r sick of it, it cant ditch u :D
wat if after NS, yr demure, timid, dependent, meek & cant cook gf became :
independent
can cook
can carry 10kg rice without u helping
brave
tanned
fit
swing arms while walking
shake legs while seated
fm C cup become A Cup
muscular wif biceps & 6 packs
talk to u in brotherly manner (machiam mermaid's tone)
will u love them less? :p
Wat if arm pit Hair never shave. The Bush can take cover like camouflage foliage? How? I think many will Kpkb blame ah kong for destroying the last natural resources thats left on the island.
I think this will get more petition than any green movement in singapore! :):):):)
n now can share 1 pair of underwear...
but can share the condom on the Rifle? Ehh I mean keeping out the sand and dust hor....
proud owner
23-10-13, 01:36
[quote=mermaid;439088]wat if after NS, yr demure, timid, dependent, meek & cant cook gf became :
independent
can cook
can carry 10kg rice without u helping
brave
tanned
fit
swing arms while walking
shake legs while seated
fm C cup become A Cup
muscular wif biceps & 6 packs
talk to u in brotherly manner (machiam mermaid's tone)
will u love them less? :p[
I know you are joking ...
sending the girls to NS ... will not turn them into GI Jane ... not Asian women ....too ku niang already ... at best they are more tanned ..and toned from the marching and running ...
and perhaps more outspoken
I know you are joking ...
sending the girls to NS ... will not turn them into GI Jane ... not Asian women ....too ku niang already ... at best they are more tanned ..and toned from the marching and running ...
and perhaps more outspoken
I am definitely not joking ....
mermaid b4 NS is alrdy quite manly, hahaha ...
really cannot imagine mermaid turning macho & protect a guy instead!
bf: help! cockroach!!!
mermaid: here I come!
bf hugged mermaid & said "thank god tat u r around"
muahahaha :D
[quote=mermaid;439088]wat if after NS, yr demure, timid, dependent, meek & cant cook gf became :
independent
can cook
can carry 10kg rice without u helping
brave
tanned
fit
swing arms while walking
shake legs while seated
fm C cup become A Cup
muscular wif biceps & 6 packs
talk to u in brotherly manner (machiam mermaid's tone)
will u love them less? :p[
I know you are joking ...
sending the girls to NS ... will not turn them into GI Jane ... not Asian women ....too ku niang already ... at best they are more tanned ..and toned from the marching and running ...
and perhaps more outspoken
They will learn how to K the husband next time. how to K mother and ancestor 18 generation. How to arm twist and un armed combat.
Surely this will be good right for the toughening up the females of singapore! I am sure all the Singaporean guys lov a more manly woman that is more Alpha in the house hold.
[QUOTE=proud owner;439908]
They will learn how to K the husband next time. how to K mother and ancestor 18 generation. How to arm twist and un armed combat.
Surely this will be good right for the toughening up the females of singapore! I am sure all the Singaporean guys lov a more manly woman that is more Alpha in the house hold.
hubby : i am going out to meet my revervist fren
wife : army things cannot tok to me meh!! CANNOT GO!
hubby : :simmering::simmering::simmering:
hubby : i am going out to meet my revervist fren
wife : army things cannot tok to me meh!! CANNOT GO!
hubby : :simmering::simmering::simmering:
worse still
hubby : i am going out to meet my reservist fwen
wife : bring me along. yr reservist fwen oso my reservist fwen.
hubby : :simmering::simmering::simmering:
:D
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