View Full Version : Tenants drawn to West Coast's lower rents
http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/saturday/premium/money/story/tenants-drawn-west-coasts-lower-rents-20131012
HOT SPOT
Tenants drawn to West Coast's lower rents
Published on Oct 12, 2013
By Melissa Tan
THE West Coast Park area, largely built on reclaimed land, is mainly occupied by light industry, some recreational areas and older housing projects.
But the estate is undergoing a rejuvenation and remains attractive to renters, consultants say.
There is potential for collective sales, given many older developments on smallish plots in the West Coast Road and Pasir Panjang areas, said Chesterton Singapore research head Elaine Chow.
One recent launch is the NeWest mixed development on the site of the former Hong Leong Garden Shopping Centre.
The 12-storey residential and commercial development went on sale in May and 134 out of its 136 homes have been sold by the end of August, according to Urban Redevelopment Authority data.
Other recent condos in the area are Hundred Trees and Botannia.
The 396-unit Hundred Trees condo in West Coast Drive, completed this year, was built on the former Hong Leong Garden condo site and is next to NeWest.
Homes had an average sale price of $1,401 per sq ft (psf) from April to September this year, property portal STProperty data show.
The median rental at Hundred Trees is $4.44 psf per month, according to Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX) data.
At the 493-unit Botannia in West Coast Park, completed in 2009, the average selling price was $1,303 psf from April to September, according to STProperty. Median rent is $3.43 psf a month, SRX data show.
Other projects include the freehold The Parc Condominium in West Coast Walk with 659 units, completed in 2010, and the 616-unit, 99-year leasehold Blue Horizon condo in West Coast Crescent, completed in 2005.
Tenants in the area are mostly expatriates and people who work or study at one-north, Singapore Science Park, the National University of Singapore and Singapore Polytechnic, consultants said.
The presence of Japanese schools in West Coast Road leads to a significant Japanese tenant population, said PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail.
Ms Chow said the area is popular among expats working for multinational companies in Jurong and Tuas. It also appeals to those working at HarbourFront and Tanjong Pagar due to the ease of commuting to the Central Business District via the Ayer Rajah Expressway, she said, adding that rents are cheaper in West Coast Park compared with Buona Vista.
One downside to the area is the absence of an MRT line.
[email protected]
http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/saturday/premium/money/story/tenants-drawn-west-coasts-lower-rents-20131012
HOT SPOT
Tenants drawn to West Coast's lower rents
Published on Oct 12, 2013
By Melissa Tan
THE West Coast Park area, largely built on reclaimed land, is mainly occupied by light industry, some recreational areas and older housing projects.
But the estate is undergoing a rejuvenation and remains attractive to renters, consultants say.
There is potential for collective sales, given many older developments on smallish plots in the West Coast Road and Pasir Panjang areas, said Chesterton Singapore research head Elaine Chow.
One recent launch is the NeWest mixed development on the site of the former Hong Leong Garden Shopping Centre.
The 12-storey residential and commercial development went on sale in May and 134 out of its 136 homes have been sold by the end of August, according to Urban Redevelopment Authority data.
Other recent condos in the area are Hundred Trees and Botannia.
The 396-unit Hundred Trees condo in West Coast Drive, completed this year, was built on the former Hong Leong Garden condo site and is next to NeWest.
Homes had an average sale price of $1,401 per sq ft (psf) from April to September this year, property portal STProperty data show.
The median rental at Hundred Trees is $4.44 psf per month, according to Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX) data.
At the 493-unit Botannia in West Coast Park, completed in 2009, the average selling price was $1,303 psf from April to September, according to STProperty. Median rent is $3.43 psf a month, SRX data show.
Other projects include the freehold The Parc Condominium in West Coast Walk with 659 units, completed in 2010, and the 616-unit, 99-year leasehold Blue Horizon condo in West Coast Crescent, completed in 2005.
Tenants in the area are mostly expatriates and people who work or study at one-north, Singapore Science Park, the National University of Singapore and Singapore Polytechnic, consultants said.
The presence of Japanese schools in West Coast Road leads to a significant Japanese tenant population, said PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail.
Ms Chow said the area is popular among expats working for multinational companies in Jurong and Tuas. It also appeals to those working at HarbourFront and Tanjong Pagar due to the ease of commuting to the Central Business District via the Ayer Rajah Expressway, she said, adding that rents are cheaper in West Coast Park compared with Buona Vista.
One downside to the area is the absence of an MRT line.
[email protected]
Might not be for long..
thomastansb
14-10-13, 21:18
Ya, lower is an under statement. Rental will continue to slide. Those who got it lower will be happy they didn't got it even lower...
Might not be for long..
I can't see how it can draw crowd when the previous building couldn't. It's down to tenant mix. The hawker didn't see more crowd after the parc top.
lower compared to Prime and east coast lah. $4.44psf is not that low relatively.
Ya, lower is an under statement. Rental will continue to slide. Those who got it lower will be happy they didn't got it even lower...
It will get even lower for West side. When more and more PCs TOP, many investors will realise one very fundamental fact in property investment.
The lesson is : "There are some PCs which you can HARDLY rent out. Put in market 3,6,9 months also got no offer." Hard truths in property investment.
So when buying a PC, when asking Location Location Location, always ask yourself if there is a good chance if cannot rent out.
Same question as asking, if Clementi same rental as Jurong, which will tenant pick ? If Novena same rental as Balestier, which one will tenant pick ?
The further you go away from the Central, the chances of rental goes down.
So, if we have 1,000 units and only 800 tenants, guess which 200 units cannot rent out ? Are these in Orchard Road ? Or Jurong ? Or Jurong West Extension ?
DKSG
It will get even lower for West side. When more and more PCs TOP, many investors will realise one very fundamental fact in property investment.
The lesson is : "There are some PCs which you can HARDLY rent out. Put in market 3,6,9 months also got no offer." Hard truths in property investment.
So when buying a PC, when asking Location Location Location, always ask yourself if there is a good chance if cannot rent out.
Same question as asking, if Clementi same rental as Jurong, which will tenant pick ? If Novena same rental as Balestier, which one will tenant pick ?
The further you go away from the Central, the chances of rental goes down.
So, if we have 1,000 units and only 800 tenants, guess which 200 units cannot rent out ? Are these in Orchard Road ? Or Jurong ? Or Jurong West Extension ?
DKSG
With many MMs and 2 roomers units bought for investment purposes over the past few years, it is a worrying thought if the no of top units outstrip the no of people who are renting. Do u think this will happen within the next 2-3 years or the underlying demand for rental homes will still be more than supply?
Logical thinking suggests that there will be rentals whether in Jurong or Orchard or Punggol, bec people work in all these places, the question is whether which areas will have a relative oversupply, if at all.
Rental at the west near mrt like boonlay, lakeside, jurong east mrt etc are quite strong in demand. U will be amazed by the rental transacted over at condos like centris, caspian, lakeshore or even older condos like parc oasis. Their rental is just slightly lower than some rcr condos.
The places where i feel there may be an oversupply of condos for rental in next 2-3years will be pasir ris and punggol. Currently, the rentals over there are already weak.
Rental at the west near mrt like boonlay, lakeside, jurong east mrt etc are quite strong in demand. U will be amazed by the rental transacted over at condos like centris, caspian, lakeshore or even older condos like parc oasis. Their rental is just slightly lower than some rcr condos.
The places where i feel there may be an oversupply of condos for rental in next 2-3years will be pasir ris and punggol. Currently, the rentals over there are already weak.
Thats because there are simply more jobs than supply of housing in the west. And for the east north and north east, its the opposite so you will need to be very selective when buying investment property in those region.
If you want to buy investment property to collect rent, just put your money in the west, you wont go wrong.
Retirees like me prefer to live far away from refineries & similar heavy industries. Really bad for health. I don't want to die cannot die, suffer from all kind of cancers due to pollution + drain all my money on medical expense. Soon, more than 20% in SG will be Retirees like me.
Thats because there are simply more jobs than supply of housing in the west. And for the east north and north east, its the opposite so you will need to be very selective when buying investment property in those region.
If you want to buy investment property to collect rent, just put your money in the west, you wont go wrong.
yiguang2001
19-10-13, 15:06
The key to property is actually government.
- they control the cooling measures
- they control the FT numbers
- they control the land
- they control the development
When rental and vacancy rate go the wrong direction for Singaporean investors, chances of adjustment is very high. Election time is not the time to upset too many people.
The key to property is actually government.
- they control the cooling measures
- they control the FT numbers
- they control the land
- they control the development
When rental and vacancy rate go the wrong direction for Singaporean investors, chances of adjustment is very high. Election time is not the time to upset too many people.
they cannot control recession.
:p
With many MMs and 2 roomers units bought for investment purposes over the past few years, it is a worrying thought if the no of top units outstrip the no of people who are renting. Do u think this will happen within the next 2-3 years or the underlying demand for rental homes will still be more than supply?
personally, I feel tat in the next 1-2 yrs, I expect supply to be more den demand. hence small units targeted for rental will face a certain degree of challenge if they r not so ideal ~ low floor, not near mrt, far fm amenities etc....
but with TDSR permanently there, I would tink tat gg fwd, quantum will be the main deciding factor. units having smaller psf/sizes will reign in demand.
http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/saturday/premium/money/story/tenants-drawn-west-coasts-lower-rents-20131012
HOT SPOT
Tenants drawn to West Coast's lower rents
Published on Oct 12, 2013
By Melissa Tan
THE West Coast Park area, largely built on reclaimed land, is mainly occupied by light industry, some recreational areas and older housing projects.
But the estate is undergoing a rejuvenation and remains attractive to renters, consultants say.
There is potential for collective sales, given many older developments on smallish plots in the West Coast Road and Pasir Panjang areas, said Chesterton Singapore research head Elaine Chow.
One recent launch is the NeWest mixed development on the site of the former Hong Leong Garden Shopping Centre.
The 12-storey residential and commercial development went on sale in May and 134 out of its 136 homes have been sold by the end of August, according to Urban Redevelopment Authority data.
Other recent condos in the area are Hundred Trees and Botannia.
The 396-unit Hundred Trees condo in West Coast Drive, completed this year, was built on the former Hong Leong Garden condo site and is next to NeWest.
Homes had an average sale price of $1,401 per sq ft (psf) from April to September this year, property portal STProperty data show.
The median rental at Hundred Trees is $4.44 psf per month, according to Singapore Real Estate Exchange (SRX) data.
At the 493-unit Botannia in West Coast Park, completed in 2009, the average selling price was $1,303 psf from April to September, according to STProperty. Median rent is $3.43 psf a month, SRX data show.
Other projects include the freehold The Parc Condominium in West Coast Walk with 659 units, completed in 2010, and the 616-unit, 99-year leasehold Blue Horizon condo in West Coast Crescent, completed in 2005.
Tenants in the area are mostly expatriates and people who work or study at one-north, Singapore Science Park, the National University of Singapore and Singapore Polytechnic, consultants said.
The presence of Japanese schools in West Coast Road leads to a significant Japanese tenant population, said PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail.
Ms Chow said the area is popular among expats working for multinational companies in Jurong and Tuas. It also appeals to those working at HarbourFront and Tanjong Pagar due to the ease of commuting to the Central Business District via the Ayer Rajah Expressway, she said, adding that rents are cheaper in West Coast Park compared with Buona Vista.
One downside to the area is the absence of an MRT line.
[email protected]
actually is quite true. know of quite a no. that are renewing their rent move West.
they cannot control recession.
:p
well many dont care. they cannot see beyond the borders of singapore. They will just blame if things go to shit.
personally, I feel tat in the next 1-2 yrs, I expect supply to be more den demand. hence small units targeted for rental will face a certain degree of challenge if they r not so ideal ~ low floor, not near mrt, far fm amenities etc....
but with TDSR permanently there, I would tink tat gg fwd, quantum will be the main deciding factor. units having smaller psf/sizes will reign in demand.
Do you think Bishan Sky Vue will have better capital gain and rental potential than J Gateway?
Do you think Bishan Sky Vue will have better capital gain and rental potential than J Gateway?
I think its not the time to enter the market. the growth are at the end of the curve. be it BS or JG. I think its all with very limited upside.
hate to burst anyones bubble but thats the hard truth.
The key to property is actually government.
- they control the cooling measures
- they control the FT numbers
- they control the land
- they control the development
When rental and vacancy rate go the wrong direction for Singaporean investors, chances of adjustment is very high. Election time is not the time to upset too many people.
Upset rich people is ok, anyway this group of people is small anyway. Upset the poor, then u may see more and more seat loss... So do you think majority of the people want to see price up or price down? I think the last election have send out a clear signal.
Upset rich people is ok, anyway this group of people is small anyway. Upset the poor, then u may see more and more seat loss... So do you think majority of the people want to see price up or price down? I think the last election have send out a clear signal.
Actually there is not a lot of poor. just the big group of middle class with very big aspiration.
I think its not the time to enter the market. the growth are at the end of the curve. be it BS or JG. I think its all with very limited upside.
hate to burst anyones bubble but thats the hard truth.
I think you could well be correct.
Looks like developers reeling in the last few suckers.
it's time for the developers to lower their bids!
thomastansb
21-10-13, 14:42
I think majority of the people want to buy low and sell high (who doesn't?). If they are sellers, they want prices to go up. IMO, I feel people f the government for anything. Even if they own properties, they still kpkb high prices even though that benefit them. But if prices will to come down, which I think there is a very extremely high chance that it will, at least the Government can say they have done their part to moderate the prices. Yes, people will be tu lan, people will still kpkb, but people have nothing more to say. They get what they asked for. The government just fulfilling people's wishes.
Upset rich people is ok, anyway this group of people is small anyway. Upset the poor, then u may see more and more seat loss... So do you think majority of the people want to see price up or price down? I think the last election have send out a clear signal.
walkthetiger
21-10-13, 19:01
I think majority of the people want to buy low and sell high (who doesn't?). If they are sellers, they want prices to go up. IMO, I feel people f the government for anything. Even if they own properties, they still kpkb high prices even though that benefit them. But if prices will to come down, which I think there is a very extremely high chance that it will, at least the Government can say they have done their part to moderate the prices. Yes, people will be tu lan, people will still kpkb, but people have nothing more to say. They get what they asked for. The government just fulfilling people's wishes.
Give the less wealthy group a chance to buy low now, give everyone a chance to enter the game, if the price doesn't drop and still going up a fast and furious pace, this group of people will be deprived in the property game forever. Especially the younger ones have just started and live on salary. Think for them too.
walkthetiger
21-10-13, 19:14
it's time for the developers to lower their bids!
...hah...It does remind me of Centerpoint making a famous record bid for Yishun.. Good luck to them.
...hah...It does remind me of Centerpoint making a famous record bid for Yishun.. Good luck to them.
tat one special case, cos it is yishun gateway :D
Give the less wealthy group a chance to buy low now, give everyone a chance to enter the game, if the price doesn't drop and still going up a fast and furious pace, this group of people will be deprived in the property game forever. Especially the younger ones have just started and live on salary. Think for them too.
Well it depends. Less wealthy will always have chance to enter the market. Thats what HDB has provided the 1st timer.
Done mean market crash the less wealthy can enter. coz why? usually in those scenario interest rates will spike. TDSR caps the amount that they can come in as investment.
The other factor is human factor in a crash these players usually dont have the guts for risk.
Some will benefit from a price drop but not all the KPKBs.
I am not complaining. but if it drops I am not complaining either ;)
walkthetiger
23-10-13, 00:09
Well it depends. Less wealthy will always have chance to enter the market. Thats what HDB has provided the 1st timer.
Done mean market crash the less wealthy can enter. coz why? usually in those scenario interest rates will spike. TDSR caps the amount that they can come in as investment.
The other factor is human factor in a crash these players usually dont have the guts for risk.
Some will benefit from a price drop but not all the KPKBs.
I am not complaining. but if it drops I am not complaining either ;)
Surely not HDB.
Market crash.. but no one knows when...
Give the less wealthy group a chance to buy low now, give everyone a chance to enter the game, if the price doesn't drop and still going up a fast and furious pace, this group of people will be deprived in the property game forever. Especially the younger ones have just started and live on salary. Think for them too.
but forever there will be a "younger one" after the younger one has gotten their house. that's why govt help you to buy your first house. but beyond that, it is indeed getting more and more difficult with the prices and policies. takes a major crash to change that.
thomastansb
23-10-13, 10:55
They have BTO to enter the game. Buy 250k, sell 500k. But ironically, the younger ones are screwing themselves. They want resale prices to come down - which take away their chance to enter the game. But they deserve it since this is what they want.
Give the less wealthy group a chance to buy low now, give everyone a chance to enter the game, if the price doesn't drop and still going up a fast and furious pace, this group of people will be deprived in the property game forever. Especially the younger ones have just started and live on salary. Think for them too.
thomastansb
23-10-13, 10:57
Nowadays, the younger generation want the resale prices to come down. So if they buy at 250k, they prefer to sell at 300k. Seems like the intelligence level of our Gen Y is going downhill.
Well it depends. Less wealthy will always have chance to enter the market. Thats what HDB has provided the 1st timer.
Done mean market crash the less wealthy can enter. coz why? usually in those scenario interest rates will spike. TDSR caps the amount that they can come in as investment.
The other factor is human factor in a crash these players usually dont have the guts for risk.
Some will benefit from a price drop but not all the KPKBs.
I am not complaining. but if it drops I am not complaining either ;)
Nowadays, the younger generation want the resale prices to come down. So if they buy at 250k, they prefer to sell at 300k. Seems like the intelligence level of our Gen Y is going downhill.
when u are at that age, u only think of your first house, not the investment house.
i only started thinking about investment ppty when i hit 33.
but forever there will be a "younger one" after the younger one has gotten their house. that's why govt help you to buy your first house. but beyond that, it is indeed getting more and more difficult with the prices and policies. takes a major crash to change that.
Crash dont mean they can buy or have the balls to buy too.
They have BTO to enter the game. Buy 250k, sell 500k. But ironically, the younger ones are screwing themselves. They want resale prices to come down - which take away their chance to enter the game. But they deserve it since this is what they want.
totally agree.. short sighteness and self centerness is the top of thier mind these days.
when u are at that age, u only think of your first house, not the investment house.
i only started thinking about investment ppty when i hit 33.
Thus I call this short sightedness... a generation tat cannot see far.
thomastansb
23-10-13, 11:15
We don't need investment property mindset to know that we should buy low and sell higher. When I am buying my first house, I wouldn't want the value to go down. I think it is common sense.
when u are at that age, u only think of your first house, not the investment house.
i only started thinking about investment ppty when i hit 33.
We don't need investment property mindset to know that we should buy low and sell higher. When I am buying my first house, I wouldn't want the value to go down. I think it is common sense.
Bro u got it wrong. the generation today want to buy cheap. theirs to go up. but other people to go down. not see any foreginers but when they want to renovate they want cheap cheap cost. and when they rent out they want to rent to foreginers high high. or sell to next person high high.
but as long not thiers.. they want crash, no foreigners and yes $2 chicken rice all round and Maids that cost $100 per mth. oh forgot no tax. and free health care. Key is they no need to pay anything n have slow slow life style with great work life balance.
thats the confused generation today.
thomastansb
23-10-13, 13:06
Hahaha. And the air of Switzerland, zero tax, cheap cars but no traffic jam.
Bro u got it wrong. the generation today want to buy cheap. theirs to go up. but other people to go down. not see any foreginers but when they want to renovate they want cheap cheap cost. and when they rent out they want to rent to foreginers high high. or sell to next person high high.
but as long not thiers.. they want crash, no foreigners and yes $2 chicken rice all round and Maids that cost $100 per mth. oh forgot no tax. and free health care. Key is they no need to pay anything n have slow slow life style with great work life balance.
thats the confused generation today.
walkthetiger
23-10-13, 20:59
Bro u got it wrong. the generation today want to buy cheap. theirs to go up. but other people to go down. not see any foreginers but when they want to renovate they want cheap cheap cost. and when they rent out they want to rent to foreginers high high. or sell to next person high high.
but as long not thiers.. they want crash, no foreigners and yes $2 chicken rice all round and Maids that cost $100 per mth. oh forgot no tax. and free health care. Key is they no need to pay anything n have slow slow life style with great work life balance.
thats the confused generation today.
Things have changed; it is difficult to compare my generation with the younger.
I do feel for the younger generation when I look at my children, they have seem went thru much more challenges to meet the modern higher expectation, they had a tougher education expectation and competition with foreigner talents. Things of today are more expensive also, include property as we all knew, but their starting salary appeared like peanuts.
My children are quite lucky as I can provide them with lot of essential things, else I guess their life will be very miserable.
Things have changed; it is difficult to compare my generation with the younger.
I do feel for the younger generation when I look at my children, they have seem went thru much more challenges to meet the modern higher expectation, they had a tougher education expectation and competition with foreigner talents. Things of today are more expensive also, include property as we all knew, but their starting salary appeared like peanuts.
My children are quite lucky as I can provide them with lot of essential things, else I guess their life will be very miserable.
I am sure my parents felt the same when the look at me as a child back many many 10s of yrs ago.
Every generation think the next have challenge.
The difference is if the generation them selves can stand up to it.
walkthetiger
23-10-13, 22:23
I am sure my parents felt the same when the look at me as a child back many many 10s of yrs ago.
Every generation think the next have challenge.
The difference is if the generation them selves can stand up to it.
Not all families can sponsor sound education coupled with well up bringing, not all families can sponsor all essential things to their children either. Without such advantage, I would say only a few have managed to climb to the very top, and a handful managed to make good or decent living, but many young ones are still strangling meeting end needs, still there are even more young ones get only peanuts. Inflation has slaughtered them, not to forget this.
I don’t have the heart to blame them for asking the Government a cheaper shelter for setting up new family, at least for this time.
Spare a though for them.
thomastansb
23-10-13, 22:27
Is it expensive in the first place? Can a normal graduate buy a 4 bedroom flat?
Not all family can sponsor sound education coupled with well up bringing, not all family can sponsor all essential things to them either. Without such advantage, I would say only a few have managed to climb to very top, and a handful managed to make good or decent living, many young ones are still strangling meeting end needs, still there are even more young ones get only peanuts. Inflation has slaughtered them.
How to blame them for asking the Government for a cheaper shelter, at least for this time.
Spare a though for them.
walkthetiger
23-10-13, 22:42
Is it expensive in the first place? Can a normal graduate buy a 4 bedroom flat?
How much a graduate can earn? or how much are we willing to pay a fresh graduate for their work? We would say lesser the better if you are the boss.
Have to be fair to them; as the older generation was not squeeze to the last dollar to buy a shelter, but the younger generation may have to loan of 20-30 years for a shelter, still unsure if they rice bowl will be taken up by FT next month, or their company will retrench them this month.
thomastansb
23-10-13, 23:31
If I am the boss, I won't pay as low as I can. You pay appropriately for the right person.
A graduate starting pay is around 2.5k on the low side and easily go up to 3.5k within 5 years. Do you think it is enough to buy a 4 bedroom?
How much a graduate can earn? or how much are we willing to pay a fresh graduate for their work? We would say lesser the better if you are the boss.
Have to be fair to them; as the older generation was not squeeze to the last dollar to buy a shelter, but the younger generation may have to loan of 20-30 years for a shelter, still unsure if they rice bowl will be taken up by FT next month, or their company will retrench them this month.
walkthetiger
23-10-13, 23:55
If I am the boss, I won't pay as low as I can. You pay appropriately for the right person.
A graduate starting pay is around 2.5k on the low side and easily go up to 3.5k within 5 years. Do you think it is enough to buy a 4 bedroom?
My friend, every year only a small percent of students get the chance study in local University, yet only get 2-3k a month after that. Should be enough for a miserable life with very empty HDB, but still comes with 20 -30 years of housing loan, with children will be even tougher.
Let’s compare generation with generation, theirs doesn't seem more comfortable to the older one. Be fair to them, especially for those who can’t make it to local university, likely getting very minimum salary, that lead to population decline, no money to set up family.
Now, about 25% of each cohort can go into local universities.
So, a bachelor degree no big deal.
Last time if you have a bachelor degree, you are in the top 10%, you can afford condos!
Now even if you have a bachelor degree, you are only in the top 25%, you can still afford a EC! :p
Freak not! The govt is expanding local university places. Soon, 40% of each cohort will get a place in the local universities! And we are not counting a few % who will go overseas, so may be 45% of each cohort will be graduates with at least a Bachelor degree?! :beats-me-man:
But it also means by then, even if you have a Bachelor degree, you may not be able to afford a EC! :rolleyes:
My friend, every year only a small percent of students get the chance study in local University, yet only get 2-3k a month after that. Should be enough for a miserable life with very empty HDB, but still comes with 20 -30 years of housing loan, with children will be even tougher.
Let’s compare generation with generation, theirs doesn't seem more comfortable to the older one. Be fair to them, especially for those who can’t make it to local university, likely getting very minimum salary, that lead to population decline, no money to set up family.
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 00:14
Now, about 25% of each cohort can go into local universities.
So, a bachelor degree no big deal.
Last time if you have a bachelor degree, you are in the top 10%, you can afford condos!
Now even if you have a bachelor degree, you are only in the top 25%, you can still afford a EC! :p
Freak not! The govt is expanding local university places. Soon, 40% of each cohort will get a place in the local universities! And we are not counting a few % who will go overseas, so may be 45% of each cohort will be graduates with at least a Bachelor degree?! :beats-me-man:
But it also means by then, even if you have a Bachelor degree, you may not be able to afford a EC! :rolleyes:
Well, our friend thinks they deserved only 2-3k after all, price of housing has multiple many times, very disproportionality. It is easy to see why they are unhappy.
proud owner
24-10-13, 00:28
Well, our friend thinks they deserved only 2-3k after all, price of housing has multiple many times, very disproportionality. It is easy to see why they are unhappy.
didn't someone in this forum claimed (last year) that starting pay for graduates have gone up a lot ??
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 09:43
didn't someone in this forum claimed (last year) that starting pay for graduates have gone up a lot ??
...Hah.... it does tell us that some friends here may has been paying only $2-3k for his fresh graduate, and think it is an appropriate rate, still thinking it is a lot for them already.... Illusion
thomastansb
24-10-13, 09:59
If we compare gen with gen, then I think the latest gen is quite whinny and selfish and self-centered. But it is also stupid to compare gen with gen, isn't it? My father gen, Singapore was 3rd world. Now, Singapore is 1st world. How to compare the prices?
Anyway, 3k can easily buy a 4 bedroom. I don't see any issue with that. If your issue is 25 years loan is too long, then take a 15 years loan.
My friend, every year only a small percent of students get the chance study in local University, yet only get 2-3k a month after that. Should be enough for a miserable life with very empty HDB, but still comes with 20 -30 years of housing loan, with children will be even tougher.
Let’s compare generation with generation, theirs doesn't seem more comfortable to the older one. Be fair to them, especially for those who can’t make it to local university, likely getting very minimum salary, that lead to population decline, no money to set up family.
thomastansb
24-10-13, 10:05
This is life. Singapore has move to first world country. Asset price will have to go up. You want cheap house, buy a BTO. It is pointless to compare 70s and now. Last time no MRT, now got MRT. Last time unemployment very high. Last time got riot. Last time got no water. How to compare like this?
Anyway, my point is HDB is still very cheap and affordable to most people. If the topic is about affordability, show me it is not affordable. If you are just harping on housing going up fast than salary, then this is life as I have explained above why. It happens everywhere. Just suck it up.
Well, our friend thinks they deserved only 2-3k after all, price of housing has multiple many times, very disproportionality. It is easy to see why they are unhappy.
Anyway, 3k can easily buy a 4 bedroom. I don't see any issue with that. If your issue is 25 years loan is too long, then take a 15 years loan.
but I tink some ppl juz hv tis type of greedy, unrealistic mentality:
wan big units, too small no face but kpkb tat it is unaffordable.
die die take big units liao but buay song ended up wif long period of big loans. prefer shorter loan cos dun wan to pay too much interests.
where got such thing one? :doh:
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 10:20
If we compare gen with gen, then I think the latest gen is quite whinny and selfish and self-centered. But it is also stupid to compare gen with gen, isn't it? My father gen, Singapore was 3rd world. Now, Singapore is 1st world. How to compare the prices?
Anyway, 3k can easily buy a 4 bedroom. I don't see any issue with that. If your issue is 25 years loan is too long, then take a 15 years loan.
Try turn this picture around for some so-called reflection, someone like you must has gone thru those early days when things were cheaper and affordable, but now making negative remarks at all our children "latest gen is quite whinny and selfish and self-centered and short-sighted". You think they asked for this, or simply deserve it because they are born later.
Who is really being "selfish and self-centered"?
You may have encountered some bad ones who you think they deserved only $2-3k, don’t be so negative on all, as their time isn’t much better.
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 10:30
but I tink some ppl juz hv tis type of greedy, unrealistic mentality:
Exactly, it was some, not all. You don't seem to belong to that group who Kpkb.
Maybe those who were paid $2-3k, tend to be really unhappy ones.
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 10:46
This is life. Singapore has move to first world country. Asset price will have to go up. You want cheap house, buy a BTO. It is pointless to compare 70s and now. Last time no MRT, now got MRT. Last time unemployment very high. Last time got riot. Last time got no water. How to compare like this?
Friend, hope you realised you indeed had "kpkb" on younger generation quite a bit. They didn't appear from nowhere or some caves, think again.
This is life, for you to see some (worth 2k-3k) ones who are really unhappy.
thomastansb
24-10-13, 10:49
You talk so much, still haven't tell me if a graduate earning 3k can buy a 4 bedroom comfortably.
No facts, empty talk. Only know how to complain. You confirm belong to those whiner ignorant groups who don't know much facts but complain a lot. No figures, nothing. Only know how to talk. Ya, those early days where chicken rice cost 70 cents. Keep harping on that and maybe you will find 70 cents rice. I suggest you write a letter to all the ministers, ask them why don't have 70 cents chicken rice because your father has it so you ought to have it too.
Try turn this picture around for some so-called reflection, someone like you must has gone thru those early days when things were cheaper and affordable, but now making negative remarks at all our children "latest gen is quite whinny and selfish and self-centered and short-sighted". You think they asked for this, or simply deserve it because they are born later.
Who is really being "selfish and self-centered"?
You may have encountered some bad ones who you think they deserved only $2-3k, don’t be so negative on all, as their time isn’t much better.
thomastansb
24-10-13, 10:51
Someone who is earning 10 to 20k can be equally unhappy. If they are unhappy about life, they would be no matter how much they are earning.
Let us know why you think a 3k income graduate cannot afford a 4 bedroom then we continue. If not, you can continue to whine and complain.
Friend, hope you realised you indeed had "kpkb" on younger generation quite a bit. They didn't appear from nowhere or some caves, think again.
This is life, for you to see some (worth 2k-3k) ones who are really unhappy.
Exactly, it was some, not all. You don't seem to belong to that group who Kpkb.
Maybe those who were paid $2-3k, tend to be really unhappy ones.
I kpkb a lot too :p
but more on the unfair treatment for Singles wrt BTO ownership. I kpkb so much tat I hv became KBW FB fwens liao! haha :D
thomastansb
24-10-13, 10:54
I am Gen Y btw. I kpkb on the same generation. And yes, I didn't have the luxury to go thru those cheaper and affordable period. And I didn't have my father's luxury to buy a 80k flat.
Friend, hope you realised you indeed had "kpkb" on younger generation quite a bit. They didn't appear from nowhere or some caves, think again.
This is life, for you to see some (worth 2k-3k) ones who are really unhappy.
Squall8888
24-10-13, 11:01
That is our new generation. They are too greedy and ignore those hdb owners like our parents. As long as they buy it cheaply, they don't care if their parents hdb value drop or not.
My starting pay was 1.2k in 1998. Fresh grad from NUS. I bought a 140k hdb via a walk in selection. That time, there were no bto. Now, if I do a direct comparison, a NUS grad get 3 to 3.5k on average. Bto is around 280k. And we have iphone and ipad around, just kidding. I would swap with them anytime.
but I tink some ppl juz hv tis type of greedy, unrealistic mentality:
wan big units, too small no face but kpkb tat it is unaffordable.
die die take big units liao but buay song ended up wif long period of big loans. prefer shorter loan cos dun wan to pay too much interests.
where got such thing one? :doh:
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 11:05
I am Gen Y btw. I kpkb on the same generation. And yes, I didn't have the luxury to go thru those cheaper and affordable period. And I didn't have my father's luxury to buy a 80k flat.
My friend, it is pointless kpkb at a generation u belonged to.
Likely, your gen has not reached retirement age, maybe it is time moving on and go back to work, help our economy. :)
That is our new generation. They are too greedy and ignore those hdb owners like our parents. As long as they buy it cheaply, they don't care if their parents hdb value drop or not.
My starting pay was 1.2k in 1998. Fresh grad from NUS. I bought a 140k hdb via a walk in selection. That time, there were no bto. Now, if I do a direct comparison, a NUS grad get 3 to 3.5k on average. Bto is around 280k. And we have iphone and ipad around, just kidding. I would swap with them anytime.
actually I dun understand y ppl nid to kpkb tat housing is expensive. didn't they r eligible to buy subsidised BTO? BTO is very cheap leh. Resale is not exp too, Im juz not willing to pay COV nia.
but ppty tis kinda of thing, it is forever appreciating. hence u buy exp today, juz be it. it will only be more exp in the future. hence there is no nid to kpkb cos as long as u committed to one, u will hv a chance to reap the benefits of the appreciation in the long run.
y kpkb & cripple one's own legs leh? :beats-me-man:
thomastansb
24-10-13, 11:20
Because they see their parents buy 50k, sell 500k now. But they didn't see the hardship their parents went thru in the 70s, 80s. Don't talk about transport or jobs. Even the most basic necessity - Water is a problem. If Malaysia cut off water for 1 week, we will all die. So now, they are unhappy that they have to pay 250k. Anyway, most are talking rubbish. They say housing unaffordable but when come to real figures, they are dumbfounded.
actually I dun understand y ppl nid to kpkb tat housing is expensive. didn't they r eligible to buy subsidised BTO? BTO is very cheap leh. Resale is not exp too, Im juz not willing to pay COV nia.
but ppty tis kinda of thing, it is forever appreciating. hence u buy exp today, juz be it. it will only be more exp in the future. hence there is no nid to kpkb cos as long as u committed to one, u will hv a chance to reap the benefits of the appreciation in the long run.
y kpkb & cripple one's own legs leh? :beats-me-man:
Because they see their parents buy 50k, sell 500k now. But they didn't see the hardship their parents went thru in the 70s, 80s. Don't talk about transport or jobs. Even the most basic necessity - Water is a problem. If Malaysia cut off water for 1 week, we will all die. So now, they are unhappy that they have to pay 250k. Anyway, most are talking rubbish. They say housing unaffordable but when come to real figures, they are dumbfounded.
I ever asked my dad, which is better?
getting a few hundred $ pay while bread, noodles is < $1 vs getting a $2k pay but wif noodles ard $3-$5?
He said he prefers the latter cos he is he can save more wif higher pay & higher cost of living. In the past, it is very hard to save $ even though things r very cheap.
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 11:30
But they didn't see the hardship their parents went thru in the 70s, 80s. Don't talk about transport or jobs. Even the most basic necessity - Water is a problem...
...water problem appear way back...
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 11:35
I ever asked my dad, which is better?
getting a few hundred $ pay while bread, noodles is < $1 vs getting a $2k pay but wif noodles ard $3-$5?
He said he prefers the latter cos he is he can save more wif higher pay & higher cost of living. In the past, it is very hard to save $ even though things r very cheap.
.....Those days when you earn only few hundreds, noodle cost in cents only, may be 10 times cheaper than now.
Not all families can sponsor sound education coupled with well up bringing, not all families can sponsor all essential things to their children either. Without such advantage, I would say only a few have managed to climb to the very top, and a handful managed to make good or decent living, but many young ones are still strangling meeting end needs, still there are even more young ones get only peanuts. Inflation has slaughtered them, not to forget this.
I don’t have the heart to blame them for asking the Government a cheaper shelter for setting up new family, at least for this time.
Spare a though for them.
My parents are civil servants before they retire . so much said I dont have a silver spoon. So I can I dont expect them to provide me with my climb to anywhere.
What they have provided is a education. Its up to me how I make the best of what I am arm with to climb anywhere. When I started work house price match to pay then are also appear daunting. It always will. so did housing appear to my parents time. it always will with a start up family without assest.
What good was this at least the education I am armed with allow me to do what I can best to get ahead.
So I am sparing the young ones a real thought. Not to help them be weak. arm them with the tools to get ahead. i.e.education and jobs.
Not give aid to wimp and fancy. We live in now a very globalized world. its not if our cheese will get stolen But how we persevere to defend the cheese that was left for us and fight to achieve more.
not whine n whine n whine abt other people have good life why we dont. so wat can help one time? next meal ? wait for things to drop from the sky?
Do give them a further thought. no near them shove further down the lazy lane.
For me I am doing the same for my kids. Give them a education and the world is they oyster. Dads / Mum cheese are not theirs to feast on. Go find their own.
.....Those days when you earn only few hundreds, noodle cost in cents only, may be 10 times cheaper than now.
put it tis way.
those were the days when one earns $500, total expenses in 1 mth eg $10.
so wat? the most thrifty person at most can save $490 nia.
Now u earn $2k, expenses $1k, still can save $1k leh :p
actually I dun understand y ppl nid to kpkb tat housing is expensive. didn't they r eligible to buy subsidised BTO? BTO is very cheap leh. Resale is not exp too, Im juz not willing to pay COV nia.
but ppty tis kinda of thing, it is forever appreciating. hence u buy exp today, juz be it. it will only be more exp in the future. hence there is no nid to kpkb cos as long as u committed to one, u will hv a chance to reap the benefits of the appreciation in the long run.
y kpkb & cripple one's own legs leh? :beats-me-man:
ask FB to take away the 'like' button. the complaint will reduce.
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 12:55
My parents are civil servants before they retire . so much said I dont have a silver spoon. So I can I dont expect them to provide me with my climb to anywhere.
What they have provided is a education. Its up to me how I make the best of what I am arm with to climb anywhere. When I started work house price match to pay then are also appear daunting. It always will. so did housing appear to my parents time. it always will with a start up family without assest.
What good was this at least the education I am armed with allow me to do what I can best to get ahead.
So I am sparing the young ones a real thought. Not to help them be weak. arm them with the tools to get ahead. i.e.education and jobs.
Not give aid to wimp and fancy. We live in now a very globalized world. its not if our cheese will get stolen But how we persevere to defend the cheese that was left for us and fight to achieve more.
not whine n whine n whine abt other people have good life why we dont. so wat can help one time? next meal ? wait for things to drop from the sky?
Do give them a further thought. no near them shove further down the lazy lane.
For me I am doing the same for my kids. Give them a education and the world is they oyster. Dads / Mum cheese are not theirs to feast on. Go find their own.
This is very correct.. :)
Squall8888
24-10-13, 14:15
You got memory loss? In the 90s, I remember Malaysia threaten to turn off the water supply. Singapore responded by saying it is an act of war. But nowadays, people don't remember shit things that have happened and the hardship of our parents.
...water problem appear way back...
thomastansb
24-10-13, 14:23
When noodle cost in cents, don't forget to mention - 3rd world country, poor sanitation, water issues, unemployment, no MRT, bus no aircon (this one jia lat, our current gen will curse and swear without aircon), no shopping center (another killer for current gen) etc. You want?
Anyway, still no response whether 3k graduate can buy 4 bedroom HDB or not. You confirm those kpkb Gen Y in disguise :D
.....Those days when you earn only few hundreds, noodle cost in cents only, may be 10 times cheaper than now.
thomastansb
24-10-13, 14:25
You wait long long. They only care about themselves. As long as they can buy 50k HDB, they don't care about their parents' HDB. But when they sell, the Government better let them sell at 1 million. That is the mentality.
You got memory loss? In the 90s, I remember Malaysia threaten to turn off the water supply. Singapore responded by saying it is an act of war. But nowadays, people don't remember shit things that have happened and the hardship of our parents.
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 15:17
When noodle cost in cents, don't forget to mention - 3rd world country, poor sanitation, water issues, unemployment, no MRT, bus no aircon (this one jia lat, our current gen will curse and swear without aircon), no shopping center (another killer for current gen) etc. You want?
Anyway, still no response whether 3k graduate can buy 4 bedroom HDB or not. You confirm those kpkb Gen Y in disguise :D
Friend, we have been drifting away from the topic. All I hope is that you stop Kpkb on the younger generation, or the generation you belonged to as well.
There is no winner in this discussion.
Please see #44.
walkthetiger
24-10-13, 15:27
You got memory loss? In the 90s, I remember Malaysia threaten to turn off the water supply. Singapore responded by saying it is an act of war. But nowadays, people don't remember shit things that have happened and the hardship of our parents.
Please read more into history, Water Rationing in the 1960s.
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