View Full Version : After Yishun central condo price hit record high...
I now believe condo has now finally delinked from hdb.
Land price even higher than sky habitat by $200psf!!!
Higher than J gateway by about $350psf!!
Amen.
thomastansb
05-09-13, 21:39
Even Tanjong Pagar that site is around 1k psf/ppr also right? And now, Yishun also 1k psf. In fact, Yishun is higher than Tg Pagar. It is close to 1.1k psf/ppr.
I now believe condo has now finally delinked from hdb.
Land price even higher than sky habitat by $200psf!!!
Higher than J gateway by about $350psf!!
Amen.
Even Tanjong Pagar that site is around 1k psf/ppr also right? And now, Yishun also 1k psf. In fact, Yishun is higher than Tg Pagar. It is close to 1.1k psf/ppr.
Yes. The whole singapore is transforming into a city called ccr.
Y Gateway coming right up... and right behind it, another CM perhaps.
will heads roll at Fraser?
Y Gateway coming right up... and right behind it, another CM perhaps.
its time for a CM for the developers liao since they r always the one who misbehave :D
govt nid to do something b4 W gateway (woodleigh) comes :tsk-tsk:
Developers are targeting HNWI, anything tag at $1mil is for mass market liao.
will heads roll at Fraser?
this is the biggest gap i have seen in percentage and in quantum.
its time for a CM for the developers liao since they r always the one who misbehave :D
govt nid to do something b4 W gateway (woodleigh) comes :tsk-tsk:
how do you cool developers with deep pocket? by upping development charge? developers will ultimately pass the cost to the buyer.
Yes. The whole singapore is transforming into a city called ccr.
Hahaha.. according to some ocr supporters, the whole singapore is transforming into a city called ocr: everywhere is central so nowhere is central.
rymccondo77
06-09-13, 01:12
will heads roll at Fraser?
Probably !!
Reminded me of the gap between Capitaland and Keppel Land for Bishan (i.e. sky habitat) - Capitaland's was 27 per cent higher than the second-highest bidder Keppel Land.
This one, as Kane mentioned, is the biggest gap!!!
I think the one in charge of bidding will be retrenched immediately.. He just cost his company 50 million... Hahaha...
I think the one in charge of bidding will be retrenched immediately.. He just cost his company 50 million... Hahaha...
May not be an overbid.
how do you cool developers with deep pocket? by upping development charge? developers will ultimately pass the cost to the buyer.
set TDSR limit on them, hiak hiak :D
I think the one in charge of bidding will be retrenched immediately.. He just cost his company 50 million... Hahaha...
I think it's 500mil
I think it's 500mil
500mil can almost bid on a new plot of land for another mid size project.
Hahaha.. according to some ocr supporters, the whole singapore is transforming into a city called ocr: everywhere is central so nowhere is central.
soon MMs in OCR will hit the million dollar jackpot :D
I now believe condo has now finally delinked from hdb.
Land price even higher than sky habitat by $200psf!!!
Higher than J gateway by about $350psf!!
Amen.
No wonder after Wing Tai boss tried his luck to talk down the mkt (but CMI)
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/price-growth-slowing-upgrader-segment-private-homes-market-160000082.html
Now is old fox CDL boss turn try to use the similar tactic.. so other developers dare not bid so high next round
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/home-prices-may-slip-5-says-billionaire-kwek-041450817.html
They are running out of landbank liao!! So many bid also unsuccessful recently.. :(
No wonder after Wing Tai boss tried his luck to talk down the mkt (but CMI)
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/price-growth-slowing-upgrader-segment-private-homes-market-160000082.html
Now is old fox CDL boss turn try to use the similar tactic.. so other developers dare not bid so high next round
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/home-prices-may-slip-5-says-billionaire-kwek-041450817.html
They are running out of landbank liao!! So many bid also unsuccessful recently.. :(
CDL still got many landbank la ... the FH pasir plot 5 he bought > 10 yrs ago is enuff to generate tonnes of profit even if he stop bidding in the next 1 yr.
CDL still got many landbank la ... the FH pasir plot 5 he bought > 10 yrs ago is enuff to generate tonnes of profit even if he stop bidding in the next 1 yr.
The plot 5 is converted to LH99
thomastansb
06-09-13, 10:38
So if same price, will people buy Marina bay or Jurong? Orchard or Bedok?
I think most people will still choose wisely but there will always be some cocks around who will repent later.
Hahaha.. according to some ocr supporters, the whole singapore is transforming into a city called ocr: everywhere is central so nowhere is central.
I now believe condo has now finally delinked from hdb.
Land price even higher than sky habitat by $200psf!!!
Higher than J gateway by about $350psf!!
Amen.
Bye Bye HDB upgraders. The KPKB generation finally have shot u in the foot.. enjoy the ride down..
:doh::doh:
The plot 5 is converted to LH99
tat means cdl is selling LH condo on FH land lor.
in fact, the whole 5 plots of land all FH :scared-4:
u tink it is a bad idea for buyers to buy if they alrdy noe tat the landlord is not the govt?
or actually ppl dun care?
500mil can almost bid on a new plot of land for another mid size project.
I think Yishun Ai Huat Liao
意义顺利:cheers5:
Next time can cycle to Orchard Road.:cheers1:
People staying between Yishun and Orchard will HUAT AH !
But the question is, will the people in Yishun bite ?
Another point to note is the commercial element, if develop decide to sell away the commercial portion, I think the $1,077 psf may not mean a $1,500 psf for residential.
DKSG
Yishun central condo price easily beat ang mo kio centro residence.
I think no head will roll for this yishun central bid. Nobody will dare to put $500m extra bid without even letting the boss know.
The truth is out:
Desmond Sim, Associate Director, CBRE Research said: “Frasers’ top bid, about 50 percent more than the second bid, is probably intended to reinforce its stronghold of shopping centres in the area, namely Northpoint and Causeway Point.”
“The site’s integration with Yishun MRT station and bus interchange in future makes it a new focal point for Yishun,” he added.
thomastansb
06-09-13, 11:34
They asked for it. They want prices to go down. They don't want to see any 1M HDB anymore.
Bye Bye HDB upgraders. The KPKB generation finally have shot u in the foot.. enjoy the ride down..
:doh::doh:
Now the biggest shopping mall landlord in the north is Fraser!
They asked for it. They want prices to go down. They don't want to see any 1M HDB anymore.
Yes very true.
will heads roll at Fraser?
It's Thailand's money...... no longer Singapore's......
Ouch, if I'm the Thai tycoon.
Is the commercial units strata title?
can fetch at least $7000 psf for ground floor units
Is the commercial units strata title?
can fetch at least $7000 psf for ground floor units
No. It is not. Those centrally located in the big HDB towns are not. Junction 9 @ ave 9 is.
No. It is not. Those centrally located in the big HDB towns are not. Junction 9 @ ave 9 is.
ok, then they will sell it to their own REIT like SPH selling the one at Clementi....
every area has its opportunity to shine - this could be the North's turn. East, West and South have their moments of glory when a project hits a crazy new psf and in turn lifting up the regional psf level.
Finally attention is now on the north :)
rymccondo77
06-09-13, 13:26
I think no head will roll for this yishun central bid. Nobody will dare to put $500m extra bid without even letting the boss know.
The truth is out:
Desmond Sim, Associate Director, CBRE Research said: “Frasers’ top bid, about 50 percent more than the second bid, is probably intended to reinforce its stronghold of shopping centres in the area, namely Northpoint and Causeway Point.”
“The site’s integration with Yishun MRT station and bus interchange in future makes it a new focal point for Yishun,” he added.
Frasers can achieve its aim without spending $500 million more than the next highest bidder. That is too much a gap.
easy to talk from the hindsight.
victorcpwong
06-09-13, 14:49
I think no head will roll for this yishun central bid. Nobody will dare to put $500m extra bid without even letting the boss know.
The truth is out:
Desmond Sim, Associate Director, CBRE Research said: “Frasers’ top bid, about 50 percent more than the second bid, is probably intended to reinforce its stronghold of shopping centres in the area, namely Northpoint and Causeway Point.”
“The site’s integration with Yishun MRT station and bus interchange in future makes it a new focal point for Yishun,” he added.
You believe that?
Nothing can justify bidding at 50% premium. It is sheer ignorance of market or a miscalculation. No business, in its right mind, can afford this kind of premium. It's huge.
Now, let's see whether there are greater fools going after their final products.
walkthetiger
06-09-13, 14:59
I think no head will roll for this yishun central bid. Nobody will dare to put $500m extra bid without even letting the boss know.
$500 millions extra was obviously unnecessary spent, yishun doesn't worth that much, that place is not bishan, amk, or even jurong east. The result shows serious miss calculation error, no doubt. Someone misleaded the boss in that bidding game, to think there were fierce competition from other bidders is without common sense, the one who proposed the bid figure should be axed.
$500m to u might not worth it but to their bosses might worth it. Different people might have different value of money. Some buy Ferrari some buy vios different views.
$500m to Frasers to 独霸北方 might consider cheap to them.
$500 millions extra was obviously unnecessary spent, yishun doesn't worth that much, that place is not bishan, amk, or even jurong east. The result shows serious miss calculation error, no doubt. Someone misleaded the boss in that bidding game, to think there were fierce competition from other bidders is without common sense, the one who proposed the bid figure should be axed.
dont waste time to talk on hindsight.
thomastansb
06-09-13, 16:19
Even Bishan or AMK is not worth the price tag. 1.1k psf/ppr is ridiculous for any area outside CCR. Let's see how they repent. I am sure there are plenty of suckers who would pay 1.7k psf for suburban anyway.
$500 millions extra was obviously unnecessary spent, yishun doesn't worth that much, that place is not bishan, amk, or even jurong east. The result shows serious miss calculation error, no doubt. Someone misleaded the boss in that bidding game, to think there were fierce competition from other bidders is without common sense, the one who proposed the bid figure should be axed.
The plot 5 is converted to LH99
So who is the winner in the end:doh:
$500m to u might not worth it but to their bosses might worth it. Different people might have different value of money. Some buy Ferrari some buy vios different views.
$500m to Frasers to 独霸北方 might consider cheap to them.
I buy vios cos I no 500million:cheers1:
So who is the winner in the end:doh:
if they buy all the 5 plots of FH land > 10 yrs ago & launch it these 2-3 yrs at LH, u say who is the winner?
walkthetiger
06-09-13, 16:48
Even Bishan or AMK is not worth the price tag. 1.1k psf/ppr is ridiculous for any area outside CCR. Let's see how they repent. I am sure there are plenty of suckers who would pay 1.7k psf for suburban anyway.
Ridiculous is the right word. If money is to be spent without justification, not sure how the CEO answers to their shareholders, maybe like "our boss is rich so this is fine with him" hah...
Likewise, those who buy will say "i can afford it, who should care".
i am sure if the 2nd highest bidder bid at $1000psf, everyone would have sing a different tune.:doh:
So naturally the retail rental will be high and translate into higher price product for consumer like us. Inflation high again. All because of these greedy developer.
By the way, the bid by Faser is combined by 2 different units.
The Faser home team assume the house can sell at $1300psf so they submit $xxx:
Den Faser retail team assume the shopping mall can bring in xxxx business so they submit $xxx.
Combine both and they got $1.5b
I now believe condo has now finally delinked from hdb.
Land price even higher than sky habitat by $200psf!!!
Higher than J gateway by about $350psf!!
Amen.
Do not boast off too early.
one thinking with knees can also know HDB and PCs will always be linked. The only thing is there may be a lag in the cycle.
walkthetiger
06-09-13, 17:25
So naturally the retail rental will be high and translate into higher price product for consumer like us. Inflation high again. All because of these greedy developer.
By the way, the bid by Faser is combined by 2 different units.
The Faser home team assume the house can sell at $1300psf so they submit $xxx:
Den Faser retail team assume the shopping mall can bring in xxxx business so they submit $xxx.
Combine both and they got $1.5b
Seem like insider news leaking ... could rest other's head on the chopping board.
walkthetiger
06-09-13, 17:27
Do not boast off too early.
one thinking with knees can also know HDB and PCs will always be linked. The only thing is there may be a lag in the cycle.
KBW may not take this lightly.
KBW may not take this lightly.
only if KBW can control the market.
I only know when the HDB looks much cheaper than condo, I will go for HDB instead of PCs.
walkthetiger
06-09-13, 19:05
only if KBW can control the market.
I only know when the HDB looks much cheaper than condo, I will go for HDB instead of PCs.
Ya.. should leave this market to the buyer.
Pikachu1245
06-09-13, 19:54
May not be an overbid.
I believe at $1450-$1650psf and above for this condominium can sell.....anyway by the time foundation up..more millionaires minted worldwide and demand should be there as long as open to the worldwide buyers...
victorcpwong
06-09-13, 23:14
i am sure if the 2nd highest bidder bid at $1000psf, everyone would have sing a different tune.:doh:
I doubt so.
Say, if the 2nd bidder was close to Frasers' bid but also some 50% higher than cluster-bids of all the other bidders, then either the 1st & 2nd bidders knew something that other didn't or both were deadly wrong by the same measure. The latter being far more probable.
In the present case, Frasers winning at hefty 50% premium is a pyrrhic victory. Bet they are not about to pop the champagne.
tat means cdl is selling LH condo on FH land lor.
in fact, the whole 5 plots of land all FH :scared-4:
u tink it is a bad idea for buyers to buy if they alrdy noe tat the landlord is not the govt?
or actually ppl dun care?
It's freehold agri land lah. When CDL applied for it to be converted to resi land, SLA converted it to 99 yr leasehold resi.
Stop perpetuating half truth.
The only leasehold on freehold land owned by developer is FEO's The Shore.
NorthernStar
07-09-13, 08:47
Do not boast off too early.
one thinking with knees can also know HDB and PCs will always be linked. The only thing is there may be a lag in the cycle.
it is totally different game now.. when gov move to more stringent HDB policy to made Singaporean happy, they shouldn't be bother the condo restrictions as this will upset those high income group which can't by HDB.. prepare for bigger price gap between condo and HDB..
NorthernStar
07-09-13, 08:48
only if KBW can control the market.
I only know when the HDB looks much cheaper than condo, I will go for HDB instead of PCs.
yes.. but prepare to sell all ur private condos in SG and overseas.. everyone Singaporean should get a HDB before they buy condo..
NorthernStar
07-09-13, 08:53
So naturally the retail rental will be high and translate into higher price product for consumer like us. Inflation high again. All because of these greedy developer.
By the way, the bid by Faser is combined by 2 different units.
The Faser home team assume the house can sell at $1300psf so they submit $xxx:
Den Faser retail team assume the shopping mall can bring in xxxx business so they submit $xxx.
Combine both and they got $1.5b
with massive BTOs in Yishun, Canberra area, the populations here will be increase significantly..the bids of Fraser commercial unit may not be wrong.. with integrated bus interchange and link to MRT, the combine mega mall will be success. eg. Jurong point.
walkthetiger
07-09-13, 10:50
with massive BTOs in Yishun, Canberra area, the populations here will be increase significantly..the bids of Fraser commercial unit may not be wrong.. with integrated bus interchange and link to MRT, the combine mega mall will be success. eg. Jurong point.
Has to agree that the huge increase of population in that area will give good commercial potential.
Let's assume the $1.4b bid is truly and mainly due to Fraser commercial unit's projected figure, then Fraser commercial unit has indeed deployed aggressive strategy to monopolize that area, and surely planned to push the commercial price to a new height by eliminating all competitors using the bidding game. A typically game played by most properties tycoon in countries like HK, but is this a smart move in current market of Singapore? I am not sure if this is healthy to local property. The matter of fact is they give $500 millions to Government for eliminating all competitors, rather then using it for bidding other site.
In the end, who will be footing the bill? After all, Yishun is just a home to many average Singaporean.
Those of you who are already vested in this area will say huat argh. But those starting out and younger wannabe upgraders will groan because it will put the prices out of range. The price increases % will go up more than their salaries and hdbs. :(
Think of the longer term consequences.
walkthetiger
07-09-13, 12:57
Those of you who are already vested in this area will say huat argh. But those starting out and younger wannabe upgraders will groan because it will put the prices out of range. The price increases % will go up more than their salaries and hdbs. :(
Think of the longer term consequences.
For those folks who live there, they will realise one big contributing reason lead to higher prices for long term...things like foods and etc will seem to be more ex than other town, which gives a new meaning to the word “prosperous town”. Good luck to Yishun residents.
For those folks who live there, they will realise one big contributing reason lead to higher prices for long term...things like foods and etc will seem to be more ex than other town, which gives a new meaning to the word “prosperous town”. Good luck to Yishun residents.
Want cheap ah go ulu place loh. live on ubin? maybe go back to the jungle? its free can live off the land!
This guy is following the path of sky habitat.
Heads will definitely roll Liao.
Perhaps there are bigger plans for Yishun that we don't know about yet. Don't let us pass judgement too quickly. All may be revealed in due course. After all, Yishun is one of the entry points for traffic on the North-South Expressway, so the Govt may be ramping up development here to pay for its infrastructure.
walkthetiger
07-09-13, 17:10
Perhaps there are bigger plans for Yishun that we don't know about yet. Don't let us pass judgement too quickly. All may be revealed in due course. After all, Yishun is one of the entry points for traffic on the North-South Expressway, so the Govt may be ramping up development here to pay for its infrastructure.
The bidding result has shown otherwise, as it appeared that only one bidder knew about such secretive plan of government? Even big player like Far East has no clue of such bigger plan?
NorthernStar
07-09-13, 17:16
Those of you who are already vested in this area will say huat argh. But those starting out and younger wannabe upgraders will groan because it will put the prices out of range. The price increases % will go up more than their salaries and hdbs. :(
Think of the longer term consequences.
IMO, price link will break, young generation can look forward for HDB housing.. GOV will push more affordable HDB for them..
NorthernStar
07-09-13, 17:21
For those folks who live there, they will realise one big contributing reason lead to higher prices for long term...things like foods and etc will seem to be more ex than other town, which gives a new meaning to the word “prosperous town”. Good luck to Yishun residents.
i seriously think it will not in this case, Yishun still have Chong Pang and Nee Soon East market. Every weekends jam like crazy... Now, Yishun have 2 different choices to cater different segments of shoppers.
Fraser always has strong foothold in North area. Causeway Point, North Point, Yew Tee point...
walkthetiger
07-09-13, 17:37
i seriously think it will not in this case, Yishun still have Chong Pang and Nee Soon East market. Every weekends jam like crazy... Now, Yishun have 2 different choices to cater different segments of shoppers.
Fraser always has strong foothold in North area. Causeway Point, North Point, Yew Tee point...
Fraser can now decide their most prefer and comfortable "price market" of the central area, without competition, where shop-owners in the region has excuse to link their rental escalation with new central's pricing, all will "prosperous".
i seriously think it will not in this case, Yishun still have Chong Pang and Nee Soon East market. Every weekends jam like crazy... Now, Yishun have 2 different choices to cater different segments of shoppers.
Fraser always has strong foothold in North area. Causeway Point, North Point, Yew Tee point...
Brother, i ask you. Got disagreement means what? The more the merrier, but too much also not good.
If no disagreement means :sleep: Nothing happen.
Brother, i ask you. Got disagreement means what? The more the merrier, but too much also not good.
If no disagreement means :sleep: Nothing happen.
Same like rising stock market/shares will hit resistance level. :D
NorthernStar
07-09-13, 19:12
Same like rising stock market/shares will hit resistance level. :D
yup.. agreed that.. there are many small malls proposed in the region too.. CEL mall and the mall near ave 4.. Fraser can't just mark-up the rental as high as their wish... consumers are smart, they know where to "geng" the cheap and good stuff..
IMO, the residential price will be at high side but not > $1600.. the high bid price are due to commercial consideration. However, good for Yishun residents, at least we are going to have a mega mall to shop ard..:cheers1:
walkthetiger
07-09-13, 19:39
the high bid price are due to commercial consideration. However, good for Yishun residents, at least we are going to have a mega mall to shop ard..:cheers1:
Guess that already meant a higher price will be on commercial. Let say Far East wins the bid, and they avoid denoting S$500 millions to Gov, a potential better/same quality mall for shoppers will still appear. ...$500 millions are no small sum, surely will not come free from a developer..
NorthernStar
08-09-13, 08:42
Guess that already meant a higher price will be on commercial. Let say Far East wins the bid, and they avoid denoting S$500 millions to Gov, a potential better/same quality mall for shoppers will still appear. ...$500 millions are no small sum, surely will not come free from a developer..
agreed that the $500 millions is too big the gap..
Think of the bright side:
1. the extra money from land sale can enable gov to do more public development or offering help to needy.
2. An integrated mega mall shopping experiences will be much better than 2 malls offering similar shops and restaurants.
3. Can't think of Far East can handle a good mall. Their waterTown also joint-venture with Fraser.
4. Price gap will be constantly check with the smaller malls and markets nearby. How Fraser can cover back the high bid price.. human traffic is the main considerations imo.
walkthetiger
08-09-13, 10:17
agreed that the $500 millions is too big the gap..
Think of the bright side:
1. the extra money from land sale can enable gov to do more public development or offering help to needy.
2.Price gap will be constantly check with the smaller malls and markets nearby. How Fraser can cover back the high bid price.. human traffic is the main considerations imo.
Well, it is still an assumption that Gov will channel that S$500 millions directly into charity or public development, there is no direct commitment. Also, appeared to make sense the price bench marking will be heavily link with their next-door Northpoint. Not sure of the exact number of shops, let say 500 shops in the new project, then each will cost $1 million more relatively, using some estimation jokingly.... hah.
Right, we should be moving forward.
Guess that already meant a higher price will be on commercial. Let say Far East wins the bid, and they avoid denoting S$500 millions to Gov, a potential better/same quality mall for shoppers will still appear. ...$500 millions are no small sum, surely will not come free from a developer..
What fnn did is a logical move because they already have an existing mall across the road. What they are doing is not just expanding their footprint but also to protect their turf. Jurong point is just another example, and suburban malls are extremely lucrative especially for developer who is looking to float on stock exchange.
rymccondo77
08-09-13, 12:02
Yes it is important for Fraser to expand as well as protect its turf, but no need to win at such a big gap versus the other bidders :)
Yes it is important for Fraser to expand as well as protect its turf, but no need to win at such a big gap versus the other bidders :)
The big gap is because of different income projection and business strategy and ideas for the plot.
For any other bidders they will have to consider factors such as competition from Northpoint, while for FNN when they win, the will strengthen and monopolized their foothold in that area that they are most familiar with.
In a open bidding like this, the objective is to win the bid, not to win the bid by the smallest margin.
1 FC Commercial Trustee Pte. Ltd. $923,952,040.00
2 Euland Pte. Ltd. $777,777,700.00
3 Mapletree Trustee Pte. Ltd $748,346,000.00
4 AT Capital Holdings Pte Ltd $707,000,000.00
Apart from what i said in another thread, look at the above bids received from last month tender (commercial site at Cecil street). FC $900+ mil while the rest $700+ mil. It is still a cool $150 mil. And now this Yishun site... Who made the call??? FC suddenly so aggressive. No more with FEO & the Sekisui.
These 2 sites already cost $2.4 bil excluding building cost etc.
Consumers will eventually pay e bill.
Consumers will eventually pay e bill.
Who else?? Up or down of coz consumers pay whenever there is a transaction including selling property to the next party, not only consumers products, food etc, unless got only 1 ppty (own stay obviously) and remain as it is, but very impossible.
Office ppty not able to see/feel it directly but financial product costs & services will also increase (why no one talk about this). Long or short chain, it will still come back unless live in the mountain.
walkthetiger
08-09-13, 15:47
What they are doing is to protect their turf..
Spot on. It is very logical for them to win the bid this way, kill all competitors using sky-high bidding price, then gain full control of the market, as well as knowing there is no need to worry about translating of S$500 millions to the Yishun’s resident in the end, as this is a “dog eat dog” world after all, as money is most important of all, and they believed a developer should recognize only money. This way, they are really truly very successful developer in Singapore. Yishun resident should even thank them for securing the project, giving them a mega mall in return…..hah…
FNN deserves this spotlight, as other bigger players has chosen not to deploy such tactic. All should know that other bigger players can also afford such tactic, but all choose not too.
victorcpwong
08-09-13, 16:00
The big gap is because of different income projection and business strategy and ideas for the plot.
For any other bidders they will have to consider factors such as competition from Northpoint, while for FNN when they win, the will strengthen and monopolized their foothold in that area that they are most familiar with.
In a open bidding like this, the objective is to win the bid, not to win the bid by the smallest margin.
I have to disagree.
Different future business plan is in the nebulous future. However brilliant that business objective is irrelevant to today's bidding exercise. Smart bidding strategy is to read the market correctly and achieve success at reasonable premium, if not at the least premium.
Winning a bid by thin margin takes a lot of luck. Winning between 5% - 10% margin is more usual. Winning at 50% margin is breaking the bank, for sure.
Want cheap ah go ulu place loh. live on ubin? maybe go back to the jungle? its free can live off the land!
but the prob is, yishun isnt a fantastic location to begin wif, let alone commanding tis $!
Do u tink the resi portion de responses will be overwhelming?
I have to disagree.
Different future business plan is in the nebulous future. However brilliant that business objective is irrelevant to today's bidding exercise. Smart bidding strategy is to read the market correctly and achieve success at reasonable premium, if not at the least premium.
Winning a bid by thin margin takes a lot of luck. Winning between 5% - 10% margin is more usual. Winning at 50% margin is breaking the bank, for sure.
As I have explain earlier the reason why Fraser could justify bidding at such a high price is because of Northpoint and Northpoint is the only reason why F&N is so determined to win this bid. With the new site in the pocket.
a) Fraser can now integrate the new mall to Northpoint, creating a big mall to enjoy the economy of scale
b) control the tenant mix of the 2 malls so that they compliment synergized instead of competing
c) Kills of any competition and have total control the rental rate on both malls.
Simply put, the whole here for F&N is larger than the sum of its parts and that same cannot be said for other bidder
Fraser who is one of the largest and most experience mall operator in Singapore read and understand the market well, and what they did was necessary and logical, and any developers in their position will do like wise. e.g. Capitaland with Jurong Gateway.
Yes, the bid was high, but it was justifiable and necessary.
walkthetiger
08-09-13, 18:05
I have to disagree.
Different future business plan is in the nebulous future. However brilliant that business objective is irrelevant to today's bidding exercise. Smart bidding strategy is to read the market correctly and achieve success at reasonable premium, if not at the least premium.
Winning a bid by thin margin takes a lot of luck. Winning between 5% - 10% margin is more usual. Winning at 50% margin is breaking the bank, for sure.
If winning by one dollar is still a win, then no need to dump so much money like no tommorrow.
If winning by one dollar is still a win, then no need to dump so much money like no tommorrow.
Wanna make a guess what are tonight's 4D result?
walkthetiger
08-09-13, 18:56
Wanna make a guess what are tonight's 4D result?
All bidders have to do some homework beforehand to know how much money is necessary to win the bid. At first, I though their homework goes wrong somewhere, but FNN later explained it was their confident in the market that leads to their bidding figure that wins by record margin. If they are all along correct, they should have bided $2 billions instead, to demonstrate their absolute confident in Yishun, may also help to show off their muscle to the competitors….hah
Anyway, their competitors should be smiling at this time.
All bidders have to do some homework beforehand to know how much money is necessary to win the bid. At first, I though their homework goes wrong somewhere, but FNN later explained it was their confident in the market that leads to their bidding figure that wins by record margin. If they are all along correct, they should have bided $2 billions instead, to demonstrate their absolute confident in Yishun, may also help to show off their muscle to the competitors….hah
Anyway, their competitors should be smiling at this time.
When F&N decided they MUST win the bid they submit a price which they think will be out of reach to the even the most optimistic competitors. And thats exactly they did and thats what they got.
To F&N it really doesnt matter what others bidders are bidding because their goal is to secure the site and they did just that. For shopping mall, its not so much about how much you pay for it, its about what you do with it and how you manage it.
Wunderkind
08-09-13, 22:28
Just wondering if FNN has considered the saleability of the residential property at 1600 psf in Yishun area?
Definitely a very bold move to bid at such a high land price!
Other bidders may not believe that 1600 psf will sell.
Just thinking if FNN has considered the saleability of the residential property at 1600 psf in Yishun area?
Definitely a very bold move to bid at such a high land price! Other bidders may not believe that 1600 psf will sell.
The meat here is in the shopping mall not the residential
walkthetiger
08-09-13, 22:38
Just wondering if FNN has considered the saleability of the residential property at 1600 psf in Yishun area?
Definitely a very bold move to bid at such a high land price!
Other bidders may not believe that 1600 psf will sell.
Wait and see, leave it to the buyers.
Just wondering if FNN has considered the saleability of the residential property at 1600 psf in Yishun area?
Definitely a very bold move to bid at such a high land price!
Other bidders may not believe that 1600 psf will sell.
Well the leader lead, if its the leader.
Assume the new mall rake in 10mil profit per year. It will take 50yrs to earn back extra 500mil :o
walkthetiger
08-09-13, 23:01
When F&N decided they MUST win the bid they submit a price which they think will be out of reach to the even the most optimistic competitors. And thats exactly they did and thats what they got.
To F&N it really doesnt matter what others bidders are bidding because their goal is to secure the site and they did just that. For shopping mall, its not so much about how much you pay for it, its about what you do with it and how you manage it.
Then, guess that FNN must regret not biding higher then $1.4 billions, maybe $2 billions in future is better one, as it will guarantee a win further, most importantly it doesn't concern a thing in business as well. Perfect.
walkthetiger
08-09-13, 23:10
Assume the new mall rake in 10mil profit per year. It will take 50yrs to earn back extra 500mil :o
Maybe 5-10 years are enough, so imagine how important it is to monopolize it...hah
It is a win at all costs. Business calculations must have been done. Consumers just have to wait to pay more.
Assume the new mall rake in 10mil profit per year. It will take 50yrs to earn back extra 500mil :o
the rental for Northpoint is around $16.60 psf per month. Max GFA for this site is around 1.2m sqft, assuming 50% is converted to retail, potential rental income will be 600,000 x 16.6 x 12 = $119m per year.
Then, guess that FNN must regret not biding higher then $1.4 billions, maybe $2 billions in future is better one, as it will guarantee a win further, most importantly it doesn't concern a thing in business as well. Perfect.
The success factor of a shopping mall is not how much you bid for it, its your ability to generate human traffic to beef up your rental. Among all the bidders, only FNN has got the ability to pull this off at this price because they are experience mall opertors and thats the reason why they submitted a must win $1.4 billion bid to protect their turf.
the rental for Northpoint is around $16.60 psf per month. Max GFA for this site is around 1.2m sqft, assuming 50% is converted to retail, potential rental income will be 600,000 x 16.6 x 12 = $119m per year.
Aiyo, u talking about revenue I talking about net profit.
1.4b haven't even include construction cost n bank interest.
Given if you give the commercial rental a 10% yield, still 11mil per year based on your estimation n will take 40++ yrs to recoup the 500mil
Ok lah. Since you all talking about rental, then i will share loh.
Northpoint current net income abt $34mil per year
Yishun hub commercial space x 2.2 net income $74.8 mil
Total net income $108.80 mil (have not consider rental rates increase for northpoint until yishun hub TOP + existing rental calculation on future Yishun hub)
Woodlands Causeway point net income ~ $52 mil per year
So what all these figures tell you???
Aiyo, u talking about revenue I talking about net profit.
1.4b haven't even include construction cost n bank interest.
Given if you give the commercial rental a 10% yield, still 11mil per year based on your estimation n will take 40++ yrs to recoup the 500mil
Before you talk about profit, I think you need to first establish the rental revenue fix and variable cost. If you dont have a proper methodology to derive in thos cost, then you are just throwing darts in the dark, or should I say pointless.
No businessmen in this world will invest in a business that requires more than 10 years ROI, so your estimation must be off many many miles.
Before you talk about profit, I think you need to first establish the rental revenue fix and variable cost. If you dont have a proper methodology to derive in thos cost, then you are just throwing darts in the dark, or should I say pointless.
No businessmen in this world will invest in a business that requires more than 10 years ROI, so your estimation must be off many many miles.
U are super optimistic with OCR.
U go calculate lor, income over cost see what's the net yield.
Based in Pro888 figure, the yield is less than 10%.
I am not saying it takes 50yrs to breakeven, I am estimating it takes 50yrs to level out the additional 500mil impact lol.
walkthetiger
09-09-13, 00:10
its your ability to generate human traffic to beef up your rental. .
Generally, all malls are designed to generate human traffic, but for a better design one, so more money necessary for building and construction later on.
U are super optimistic with OCR.
U go calculate lor, income over cost see what's the net yield.
Based in Pro888 figure, the yield is less than 10%.
I am not saying it takes 50yrs to breakeven, I am estimating it takes 50yrs to level out the additional 500mil impact lol.
1) Its a known fact that suburban malls with integrated transport hub are extremely lucrative business for landlord because it has got high human traffic 365 days.
2) You are the one who are telling us all sort of ROI projection, I am just asking you if you have done your homework of analyzing the cost and revenue. Like I said, if you dont know the cost and revenue, how the hell are you going to know that is the ROI?
3) What pro888 provided are net income. If you dont know the cost structure of the business, how the hell do you know that its less than 10%?
4) Lastly, why do you even bother to think that you are smarter in your numbers than the professional that is handling the bid at F&N?
Generally, all malls are designed to generate human traffic, but for a better design one, so more money necessary for building and construction later on.
Suburban shopping malls that are build next to integrated transport hub are gold mine for landlord and thats the only reason why developer are willing to pump in huge investment and keeping it for themselves. For a mall to be successful, the tenant mix is extremely important and thats is where mall operators like Fraser Centerpoint will make the difference.
For FEO and CDL etc, they are opportunistic bidders, not a serious contender.
U are super optimistic with OCR.
U go calculate lor, income over cost see what's the net yield.
Based in Pro888 figure, the yield is less than 10%.
I am not saying it takes 50yrs to breakeven, I am estimating it takes 50yrs to level out the additional 500mil impact lol.
Amongst most developers, they all admit that this bid is way off the market. They call it once in a century mistake.
The other mistake they pointed out is the once in a century mistake by buyers of the $1,7xx Jurong PC!
But developer can still hope to find a few hundred people who make the once a century mistake, but the few hundred people may not find the next once a century mistake resale buyers.
DKSG
proud owner
09-09-13, 00:59
Those of you who are already vested in this area will say huat argh. But those starting out and younger wannabe upgraders will groan because it will put the prices out of range. The price increases % will go up more than their salaries and hdbs. :(
Think of the longer term consequences.
so PRs are not the reasons why HDB resale sky rocketed ..
next election ... people will complain of High property prices becos developers anyhow bid high high ...
developers be careful ... CM will be on you next round
so PRs are not the reasons why HDB resale sky rocketed ..
next election ... people will complain of High property prices becos developers anyhow bid high high ...
developers be careful ... CM will be on you next round
Government is not going to kill the developers for sure as they are not so stupid to bite the hands that feed them. Looking at what the government are doing, I think they are going to use HDB BTO price to further dampening the market and to gain votes
walkthetiger
09-09-13, 09:18
so PRs are not the reasons why HDB resale sky rocketed ..
next election ... people will complain of High property prices becos developers anyhow bid high high ...
developers be careful ... CM will be on you next round
An OCR site "residential cum commercial integrated with MRT station, or some interchange hub", giving developers some good excuses for delinking with other OCR, they seem turning greedy one by one by turning this into incredible and exciting selling point, maybe too hot already.
Hope this can be cool down a little, there are many similar projects coming up, so are the many MRTs stations are coming up in OCR, really there are no shortage in near future.
Amongst most developers, they all admit that this bid is way off the market. They call it once in a century mistake.
The other mistake they pointed out is the once in a century mistake by buyers of the $1,7xx Jurong PC!
But developer can still hope to find a few hundred people who make the once a century mistake, but the few hundred people may not find the next once a century mistake resale buyers.
DKSG
LIKE, LIKE, LIKE!
Amongst most developers, they all admit that this bid is way off the market. They call it once in a century mistake.
The other mistake they pointed out is the once in a century mistake by buyers of the $1,7xx Jurong PC!
But developer can still hope to find a few hundred people who make the once a century mistake, but the few hundred people may not find the next once a century mistake resale buyers.
DKSG
Lol he trying to talk up his Jurong la
Lol he trying to talk up his Jurong la
This thread is about Yishun my boy not Jurong.
Having said that, you should consider the sail because DKSG highly recommended that project.
Lol he trying to talk up his Jurong la
Remember, Jurong vision has been sold but yet to materialise.
Just look at the empty lands around Yishun. The same thing can also happen at Lower Seletar Reservoir area.
When govt plans are announced, developers will price in, buyers will price in, sellers will price in, etc. All running towards the target price.
Just reverse the order, When govt plans are not announced, developers priced it in, buyers will not buy, sellers will not price. What is missing in this equation? Govt plans. So if Govt has plans for this area and we all dont know it except a few who does, it is logical for them to take the bet. I will bet in Yishun over Jurong because of the investment at the Airport and I am living in Yishun.
Remember, Jurong vision has been sold but yet to materialise.
Just look at the empty lands around Yishun. The same thing can also happen at Lower Seletar Reservoir area.
When govt plans are announced, developers will price in, buyers will price in, sellers will price in, etc. All running towards the target price.
Just reverse the order, When govt plans are not announced, developers priced it in, buyers will not buy, sellers will not price. What is missing in this equation? Govt plans. So if Govt has plans for this area and we all dont know it except a few who does, it is logical for them to take the bet. I will bet in Yishun over Jurong because of the investment at the Airport and I am living in Yishun.
I am not sure what exactly you are talking about here. JLD vision was first announce in 2008 and its a 15 year project. Since 2008 many things have happened and thats the reason why many people are so sour about it.
As for this Yishun plot, its a no brainer for developer. Its a massive and growing township with intergrated transport hub. It will be foolish to expect the site to be selling cheap.
Dont mind me. Anyway please see this report :)
http://business.asiaone.com/news/fcl-units-stunning-bid-yishun-plot
He predicts strong demand for the apartments, as potential buyers, especially those living in Yishun, will be drawn to the site's locational attributes and amenities such as easy access to buses and the MRT.
He expects buyers to fork out an average price of $1,300 psf for a unit there.
He believes that apartments in the new development could be launched at prices ranging from $1,350 to $1,450 psf in 2014.
"Skies Miltonia, a 99-year leasehold condominium project in the Yishun area launched recently for sale has transacted at an average price of $1,070 psf in the primary market this year.
"However, Skies Miltonia is located about 1.7 kilometres from the Khatib MRT Station, while the subject property is just across the road from the Yishun MRT Station," said Mr Mak.
- See more at: http://business.asiaone.com/news/fcl-units-stunning-bid-yishun-plot/page/0/2#sthash.F1gGJpbM.dpuf
walkthetiger
09-09-13, 11:09
Remember, Jurong vision has been sold but yet to materialise.
Just look at the empty lands around Yishun.The same thing can also happen at Lower Seletar Reservoir area.
When govt plans are not announced, developers priced it in, buyers will not buy, sellers will not price.
The remaining empty land around Yishun’s central will be used as temporary bus interchange, after that it will be years later matter what it will become.
Mentioned this before, the result has shown only one developer seem to know something where other big player like FEO appears know nothing, seem unbelievable.
Comparing Jurong with Yishun, Yishun is just and still a sleeping town without a major plan. Only thing coming up is huge influx average Singapore.
there are many similar projects coming up, so are the many MRTs stations are coming up in OCR, really there are no shortage in near future.
Care to share where are the many similar projects that are coming up that near existing/ future mrt stns in the near future? :D
I am very happy for this Yishun project!!
It has blurred the line between OCR, RCR and CCR!!
Dont mind me. Anyway please see this report :)
http://business.asiaone.com/news/fcl-units-stunning-bid-yishun-plot
He predicts strong demand for the apartments, as potential buyers, especially those living in Yishun, will be drawn to the site's locational attributes and amenities such as easy access to buses and the MRT.
He expects buyers to fork out an average price of $1,300 psf for a unit there.
He believes that apartments in the new development could be launched at prices ranging from $1,350 to $1,450 psf in 2014.
"Skies Miltonia, a 99-year leasehold condominium project in the Yishun area launched recently for sale has transacted at an average price of $1,070 psf in the primary market this year.
"However, Skies Miltonia is located about 1.7 kilometres from the Khatib MRT Station, while the subject property is just across the road from the Yishun MRT Station," said Mr Mak.
- See more at: http://business.asiaone.com/news/fcl-units-stunning-bid-yishun-plot/page/0/2#sthash.F1gGJpbM.dpuf
stalingrad
09-09-13, 16:49
Yes. The whole singapore is transforming into a city called ccr.
Except the real CCR. The real CCR is now a slum.
I am very happy for this Yishun project!!
It has blurred the line between OCR, RCR and CCR!!
this project will help elevate the price of property within 400m radius and also traffic congestion within 100m radius
http://goo.gl/maps/6SUtP
What can you see then?:)
Lots of job going to the area.
1.
http://www.jtc.gov.sg/RealEstateSolutions/PublishingImages/SeletarAerospacePark/Plan_SAP.jpg
JTC said that the development of Phase 3, which includes 20ha with runway access, will begin early next year and is expected to be completed by 2014.
When SAP is completed, it is expected to provide jobs for some 10,000 workers.
2.
Pratt & Whitney, the jet-engine unit of United Technologies Corp., is spending almost $110 million on two new facilities in Singapore, including a 180,000-square-foot manufacturing plant that’s scheduled to be completed in 2014, it said in a Jan. 31 statement. The plan will boost its Singapore workforce to more than 2,500 over the next five years.
3.
The school will start by taking in pupils up to Grade 5 or age 11, and eventually grow its enrollment to 3,000.
Singapore – Monday May 27, 2013: Opening in September 2014, GEMS World Academy, Singapore (GWA) will be the first school in South East Asia connected to the GEMS global network of international schools. The network provides the opportunity for students from Singapore to interact with their peers in other cities around the world from over 150 nationalities. This unique learning environment is designed to prepare students for a world that is more interconnected than ever before. GWA, Singapore will educate the leaders of the future and provide young people with educational opportunities to qualify and attend some of the best universities in the world.
Developed by GEMS Education, the largest K-12 private education operator in the world, GWA, Singapore is a five-hectare, S$213 million investment to be located in Yishun, and is currently scheduled to open in September 2014. The new campus will house state-of-the-art education infrastructure, incorporating modern design and sustainability features that may be adapted to meet the needs of future generations. These facilities range from generous classroom space and a world-class 750-seat auditorium, to a planetarium and a well-equipped sports arena.
blackjack21trader
09-09-13, 21:55
So Greenwich can buy or not? Have some spare change.:p
So Greenwich can buy or not? Have some spare change.:p
Got spare change dun be shy..contribute to absd and help the needy
blackjack21trader
09-09-13, 22:03
Got spare change dun be shy..contribute to absd and help the needy
So you are saying Greenwich can buy? Pro and cons plse, good brother share :)
blackjack21trader
09-09-13, 22:05
last time I work around here, the landed seems like easy to rent. dunno now still as good?
So you are saying Greenwich can buy? Pro and cons plse, good brother share :)
Hmm.. give you 1.2k+ psf will you hoot?
proud owner
10-09-13, 00:15
last time I work around here, the landed seems like easy to rent. dunno now still as good?
one of my favorite landed estate ...
problem is ... no schools
For those wannabe who think they are smarter than F&N here is an article to tell you why you should not.
NPI for Northpoint alone is $35.3m per year, a far cry from the trolls estimate of $10m.
SOMEONE told me once he wanted to come back in his next life as either an insurance company boss or a suburban mall owner. I'm not sure what kind of karma he would have to accumulate in his current life to be bestowed with that good fortune in the next, but it certainly sounds like an agreeable proposition.
Why not? Certain suburban malls, for example, seem to enjoy a durable competitive advantage - the kind that makes value investors drool over their Porter five forces analyses and discounted cash flow calculations.
A comparison of the profitability of Singapore malls shows that the most profitable tend to be located in suburban centres like Tampines, Bishan and Yishun - suburban in Singapore being defined as a location not within the Central Business District.
A prime example would be Bishan's Junction 8. Around a one-kilometre radius are HDB flats, landed property, condos, industrial buildings, well-known schools like Raffles Institution, Catholic High, St Joseph's Institution, a mosque, a church, a stadium and swimming pool, and a library. There are some eateries and shops by the HDB blocks around it, but the mall has otherwise no competition in sight - the nearest malls are probably AMK Hub and the Toa Payoh Central area. Those two places, arguably, pale in comparison.
Land around Bishan is mostly built up. No alternative malls should be springing up anytime soon. Junction 8 thus has a captive audience of the estimated 65,000 HDB dwellers living nearby and perhaps some of the 109,000 people living in Toa Payoh flats and another 150,000 living in Ang Mo Kio flats as well, not including those living in private property and the students, workers and other people using the various amenities nearby. Bishan is also accessible.
Bishan MRT station beside Junction 8 is an interchange for the North-South and Circle lines. Bishan is also a 10-minute train ride away from Orchard, and has a bus interchange too.
Shopper traffic in 2012, by the way, was 29.2 million - the third highest among CapitaMall Trust malls after Bugis Junction and Raffles City. This translates to roughly 80,000 people a day.
A tenant that leaves is easily replaced, looking at Junction 8's occupancy history. It was fully occupied for eight of 10 years from 2003 to 2012, through Sars and the global financial crisis, with the only exceptions being 2004 (99.8 per cent occupancy) and 2012 (99.6 per cent). This slipped to 99.4 per cent last year, perhaps reflecting a tougher retail environment as costs rise.
However, shopping malls which cater to people's basic needs will have a sustainable advantage, especially in Singapore. People here like to eat out, for instance. The Singaporean weather is hot, humid, and rainy. Shopping malls offer plenty of good food across all price ranges in comfortable settings.
Mall tenants cater to a spectrum of needs. By having a tenant mix squarely in the mass market segment, suburban malls ensure a constant stream of visitors. The tenant mix in a place like Junction 8 will give a rough idea of the magic formula required. It has bakeries BreadTalk and Four Leaves, mass market fashion chains Cotton On, G2000 and Giordano, Chinese food like Din Tai Fung and Crystal Jade, DBS Bank, a Food Junction food court, a Golden Village cinema, fast food chains McDonald's, KFC, MOS Burger, Subway, telco shops SingTel, StarHub and M1, a Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf, a Swensen's ice cream restaurant, Best Denki and Challenger for electronics, Japanese food chains like Sakae Sushi, shops selling crocs, flip flops, a Cristofori Music School and an NTUC supermarket in the basement.
Suburban malls do not need unique, quirky boutiques and fine dining restaurants to be profitable. By being the only mall around and catering to basic needs of people living nearby, they will do just fine - especially when located in a densely populated, middle to upper-middle class area like Bishan.
It is thus no surprise that the mall is doing just fine, with one of the highest net property income (NPI) per square foot of net lettable area (NLA) among malls in Singapore's listed Reits. Based on latest figures, the mall generated net property income of $157 per square foot in 2013.
This is akin to renting out a 1,000 sq ft condominium and enjoying $157,000 in profit a year after the deduction of maintenance expenses and property management fees, before mortgage payments and other costs.
This works out to takings of roughly $13,000 a month. Do you get $13,000 a month from renting out your condo?
This is what I call foresight...as for those who question Fraser bid....take this as a lesson.
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapore/more-singapore-stories/story/3-things-about-yishuns-upcoming-integrated-development-n#3
walkthetiger
02-08-14, 11:47
For those wannabe who think they are smarter than F&N here is an article to tell you why you should not.
NPI for Northpoint alone is $35.3m per year, a far cry from the trolls estimate of $10m.
... nothing new, most info was found in the open tender document from some gov site since last year.... they are shifting the $1.4b burden on Mall tenants....They need more than magic in current sentiment, many small businesses are not doing exceptionally well comparing with some years ago.... Residential site is relatively small and squeeze.... Due to that $1.4b, this appears the toughest project in recent years; need to be extra careful of their fine prints to ensure they deliver things they promise....
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