View Full Version : Ensuring fairness in home ownership
Published on Sep 04, 2013
THE current policy requiring private property owners to sell their homes if they buy HDB flats affects many retirees who want to downgrade and rent out their residences ("Home ownership rules: HDB replies", Aug 23; and "Minimum occupation period not the issue" by Mrs Chloe Loke, Forum Online, last Wednesday).
In contrast, HDB flat owners, after satisfying the minimum occupation period, can buy private properties and choose to keep their flats. They have the benefit of renting out either their HDB flats or private properties.
With the huge supply of private properties coming on-stream over the next few years to cater to the rental market, perhaps it is timely for the HDB to review its policy of allowing the rental of whole HDB flats.
It should continue to allow an HDB flat owner who buys private property after satisfying the minimum occupation period to retain the flat - but he must continue to live in it.
To ensure fairness, a private property owner who buys an HDB flat must also live in it.
Since both HDB flat owner and private property owner must live in their flats, this will leave them the option of renting out their private properties, ensuring sufficient private homes in the rental market.
http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/forum-letters/story/ensuring-fairness-home-ownership-20130904
personally I feel tat a pte ppty owner shd be allowed to buy a HDB flat after satisfying the 5 yrs MOP for pte, coz the net impact at the end of the day is the same.
Thats assuming everyone is able to afford a private condo rental. The person write without using his brain.
Thats assuming everyone is able to afford a private condo rental. The person write without using his brain.
tat is not the point tat he is trying to bring across.
My view is that the policy should be that either all can own both (HDB and pte) or all cannot.
It's stupid to only allow people who buy HDB first to buy pte , but not the other way round.
My view is that the policy should be that either all can own both (HDB and pte) or all cannot.
It's stupid to only allow people who buy HDB first to buy pte , but not the other way round.
totally agree wif u.
No one will question how u wanna the rule to be like as long as u r fair to everyone.
I notice tat many times, it is not tat govt hv bad policies. rather the policies r skewed in favour of certain categories of ppl which make the public buay song.
Oh no we are back on this topic again :D
Not going to say much, just wait and see the regular updates on the number of HDB rental application, is it going to keep going up till 2016 or not.
If keep going up, all I can guess is that the current policy is bias towards closing the wealth gap and is part of a bigger picture the government is looking at. Only people in the known will know. Definitely not layman like me :D
Oh no we are back on this topic again :D
Not going to say much, just wait and see the regular updates on the number of HDB rental application, is it going to keep going up till 2016 or not.
If keep going up, all I can guess is that the current policy is bias towards closing the wealth gap and is part of a bigger picture the government is looking at. Only people in the known will know. Definitely not layman like me :D
lol ... u seems to suggest to me tat a person is considered as not wealthy if he buys a hdb 1st wor ... :47:
Amber Woods
04-09-13, 12:39
Thats assuming everyone is able to afford a private condo rental. The person write without using his brain.
You need to think deeper before making such comments.
During the earlier years, HDB flat owners could only rent out their spare rooms. If a family wanted to rent the whole apartment, they need to look at private property. Many HDB flat owners then locked up one room and rent out the entire flat anyway to beat the rule.
When there was a shortage of rented properties, the government allowed the renting of whole flat with the Board's approval. To this day, the policy has not been reversed.
Now that there could be an over supply of private properties, diverging the rental of whole flat back to the private market makes a lot of sense. HDB flats thus become a home for own stay. HDB owners can continue to rent out their spare rooms for extra incomes.
This proposed shift in policy will ensure that rental of private properties will not crush.
As long as there is sufficient rental units in the private market and HDB rooms for rental, market forces will ensure that rentals will be competitive. Those can afford to pay a little more can rent rooms in private flats or the entire apartment. Those who are on a smaller budget can rent rooms in HDB flats.
There is nothing new in the suggestion. The writer was simply suggesting that we should go back to where we were since now supply is catching up or even exceeding demand in the coming years.
One way is to vary the ABSD for HDB to be higher than that for pte property?
lol ... u seems to suggest to me tat a person is considered as not wealthy if he buys a hdb 1st wor ... :47:
Ok ok my bad, generally not as wealthy based on official income of less $10k to qualify BTO HDB.:cheers1:
There is always exception where I ever viewed a 5rm HDB, that is for sales but the unit in its original state as collected keys from HDB, no renovation at all and not even the lights.
Such owners I would say wealthy enough to have it empty for 5years MOP before putting up in market as resale. :D
personally I feel tat a pte ppty owner shd be allowed to buy a HDB flat after satisfying the 5 yrs MOP for pte, coz the net impact at the end of the day is the same.
It used to be allowed until there is a change of policy a few years back. So maybe let's take a step back and ask why govt change it?
Ok ok my bad, generally not as wealthy based on official income of less $10k to qualify BTO HDB.:cheers1:
Yr stmt is only true if u compare BTO owners with those whose combined income > $10k.
Eligible for BTO only concludes tat the person is married, nothing else. Prior to Jul 2013, singles regardless of whether rich or poor can only buy resale.
Hence many BTO married couples who bought BTO at young age followed by pte could be far richer den the singles who can only afford a pte condo.
Yr stmt is only true if u compare BTO owners with those whose combined income > $10k.
Eligible for BTO only concludes tat the person is married, nothing else. Prior to Jul 2013, singles regardless of whether rich or poor can only buy resale.
Hence many BTO married couples who bought BTO at young age followed by pte could be far richer den the singles who can only afford a pte condo.
I'm in agreement with your comment.
In fact recollecting many new couples back then focused to work hard and aim to pay down their BTO flat before upgrading to a bigger HDB flat or EC or PC, as there is no option to rent out their HDB while upgraded to stay in PC. :D
As for singles, all I could say policy was discriminating them back then as government is pro marriage and procreate :(
Ok let's focus on the main discussion of this tread you started on fairness of ownership. Cheers :)
It used to be allowed until there is a change of policy a few years back. So maybe let's take a step back and ask why govt change it?
Why they change it could well be as per wat Amber woods has explained. But do you think it should be reverted?
Ok let's focus on the main discussion of this tread you started on fairness of ownership. Cheers :)
Do u think the change is fair?
I highly doubt govt will wanna revert the rule coz tat will perhaps cause a mad rush for HDB flats?
Amber Woods
04-09-13, 15:55
Why they change it could well be as per wat Amber woods has explained. But do you think it should be reverted?
Do u think the change is fair?
I highly doubt govt will wanna revert the rule coz tat will perhaps cause a mad rush for HDB flats?
If owners of HDB flat have to live in the flat, there may not be a rush to buy HDB flats. However, if HDB continues to allow rental of whole flat after MOP, there will be a mad rush.
If owners of HDB flat have to live in the flat, there may not be a rush to buy HDB flats. However, if HDB continues to allow rental of whole flat after MOP, there will be a mad rush.
hmmm ... which way is better?
1. allow citizens to hold both pte & hdb regardless of which order but they will nid to stay in HDB, can only rent out condo.
2. Stick with the current "unfair" rule.
If allow option 1, it could mean tat there will not be enuff affordable housing for non citizens to rent since all existing owners who sublet the whole flat hv to move back to HDB ...
If more r being force to the pte markets, rental/demands for pte could soar higher ...
tink tis is not wat the govt wan oso :(
Amber Woods
04-09-13, 16:11
hmmm ... which way is better?
1. allow citizens to hold both pte & hdb regardless of which order but they will nid to stay in HDB, can only rent out condo.
2. Stick with the current "unfair" rule.
If allow option 1, it could mean tat there will not be enuff affordable housing for non citizens to rent since all existing owners who sublet the whole flat hv to move back to HDB ...
If more r being force to the pte markets, rental/demands for pte could soar higher ...
tink tis is not wat the govt wan oso :(
If the market has ample supply of private apartments for rental, rental will always be affordable. As it is now, the rental for some mass market condo is no more than that of HDB flats. What would happen if new stream of new PCs become available over the next few years? The rental for private PC will be depressed further.
Look at this
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications_and_papers/reference/yearbook_2013/yos2013.pdf
Check item 4.2
from 2006 to 2012 - condo increased from 114.6K to 139.9K - in total it increased 25.3K
in 2011, condo dropped... Remember the years of enbloc....
from 3006 to 2012 - total housing increased from 1.054.1mil to 1.152mil - a total increase of 100,000 units...
Check item 2.1
from 2006 to 2012, population increased from 4.4mil to 5.3mil - in total it increase 900K
Now compare the 2 - population vs housing.... 900K increase in population vs 100k increase in housing of all types...
You can minus construction workers, etc.... and come up with your own conclusion... You can look at population of Singapore residents and come up with your own conclusion.....
Every year you see population stats.... from 2005, etc.... Where is the population stats for 2013???? Can someone tell me the population of Singapore for the year 2013??? Food for thought....
Why they change it could well be as per wat Amber woods has explained. But do you think it should be reverted?
Do u think the change is fair?
I highly doubt govt will wanna revert the rule coz tat will perhaps cause a mad rush for HDB flats?
Ok lets understand why it was implemented. According to one of the "complaints", private property owners bought resale HDB to invest and "speculate" or rent out HDB to earn additional passive income. It can be quite easily achieved when another rule, taking bank loan and after 1 year can sell or 2 1/2(or 3?) years later, can rent whole unit out. These "may have" push the price of resale flats up. Of course not only private property owners, PRs who bought resale and can only take bank loan took advantage of it too.
I have no problem reverting the policy, as long as once they bought a hdb resale, they must stay in hdb and fulfill the MOP. After that they want to do what is their business. Of course they can still keep their private property if they want to.
Ok lets understand why it was implemented. According to one of the "complaints", private property owners bought resale HDB to invest and "speculate" or rent out HDB to earn additional passive income. It can be quite easily achieved when another rule, taking bank loan and after 1 year can sell or 2 1/2(or 3?) years later, can rent whole unit out. These "may have" push the price of resale flats up. Of course not only private property owners, PRs who bought resale and can only take bank loan took advantage of it too.
pls la, even if a person buys hdb 1st followed by pte, there is always a case of using the HDB as a speculative instrument wat, hence the sequence is not impt at all.
If the market has ample supply of private apartments for rental, rental will always be affordable. As it is now, the rental for some mass market condo is no more than that of HDB flats. What would happen if new stream of new PCs become available over the next few years? The rental for private PC will be depressed further.
I agree wif u only if our population is not set to increase to 6.9mil.
the oversupply tat we r gonna see in the next 1-2 yrs is only temporal due to a mismatch. when the population gradually increases, we will be faced with inadequate supply/at most balance supply. So if there is no oversupply, how to find affordable depressed pte rental for such ppl?
Amber Woods
04-09-13, 16:40
I agree wif u only if our population is not set to increase to 6.9mil.
the oversupply tat we r gonna see in the next 1-2 yrs is only temporal due to a mismatch. when the population gradually increases, we will be faced with inadequate supply/at most balance supply. So if there is no oversupply, how to find affordable depressed pte rental for such ppl?
The government is controlling the supply and demand both in term of population and housing. Do you think the government want to make the same mistake as what Mr Mah did by under building for the last 10 years?
Mr Khaw and DPM Therman have repeatedly said that housing will remain affordable and the government will build up supply before demand.
Look at this
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications_and_papers/reference/yearbook_2013/yos2013.pdf
Check item 4.2
from 2006 to 2012 - condo increased from 114.6K to 139.9K - in total it increased 25.3K
in 2011, condo dropped... Remember the years of enbloc....
from 3006 to 2012 - total housing increased from 1.054.1mil to 1.152mil - a total increase of 100,000 units...
Check item 2.1
from 2006 to 2012, population increased from 4.4mil to 5.3mil - in total it increase 900K
Now compare the 2 - population vs housing.... 900K increase in population vs 100k increase in housing of all types...
You can minus construction workers, etc.... and come up with your own conclusion... You can look at population of Singapore residents and come up with your own conclusion.....
Every year you see population stats.... from 2005, etc.... Where is the population stats for 2013???? Can someone tell me the population of Singapore for the year 2013??? Food for thought....
by rite when population increases at a much faster rate than the increase in housing, we shd be forever r very much under-supplied even though govt ramped up the supply recently.
But how come our rental market did experience a slow down in demand as if we r oversupplied huh?
pls la, even if a person buys hdb 1st followed by pte, there is always a case of using the HDB as a speculative instrument wat, hence the sequence is not impt at all.
Exactly. The policy is more reactive than anything.
The government is controlling the supply and demand both in term of population and housing. Do you think the government want to make the same mistake as what Mr Mah did by under building for the last 10 years?
Mr Khaw and DPM Therman have repeatedly said that housing will remain affordable and the government will build up supply before demand.
I think the rental market for both hdb & pte will still be healthy, juz tat new launches & resale market (for both) will slow down tremendously due to TDSR/new PR rule.
ABSD/SSD hv hope of being lifted soon? :D
ABSD/SSD hv hope of being lifted soon? :D
Actually with the TDSR in place, all the other duties become redundant, as they make private properties that much more unaffordable. I think they will time it for maximum "leverage" though. Think GE 2016.
by rite when population increases at a much faster rate than the increase in housing, we shd be forever r very much under-supplied even though govt ramped up the supply recently.
But how come our rental market did experience a slow down in demand as if we r oversupplied huh?
For which quarter???
https://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/text/2013/pr13-47.html
Rentals of private residential properties increased by 0.3% in 2nd Quarter 2013, which is significantly lower than the 0.8% increase in 1st Quarter 2013 (see Annexes A-3 (https://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-47a3.pdf) & A-4 (https://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-47a4.pdf)).
https://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-47a3.pdf
http://www.ura.gov.sg/pr/graphics/2013/pr13-24a3.pdf
Actually with the TDSR in place, all the other duties become redundant, as they make private properties that much more unaffordable. I think they will time it for maximum "leverage" though. Think GE 2016.
but if they cont'd the absd/ssd till 2016, I tink resale market will be badly hit ...
For which quarter???
recent mths la ... rental rates dropped.
but if they cont'd the absd/ssd till 2016, I tink resale market will be badly hit ...
The days of making "money" from properties are over.... Hahahahahahahaha
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 18:16
but if they cont'd the absd/ssd till 2016, I tink resale market will be badly hit ...
recent mths la ... rental rates dropped.
I agree with u, good brother. R-E-M-O-V-E THE SSD AND ABSD PLEASE !
I agree with u, good brother. R-E-M-O-V-E THE SSD AND ABSD PLEASE !
Remove the ABSD lah, not SSD, SSD still need to be there to ensure there is no flip flop, and there is no flooding of for-sales.
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 18:25
Remove the ABSD lah, not SSD, SSD still need to be there to ensure there is no flip flop, and there is no flooding of for-sales.
..............man, I dunno what to say ! SSD needs to be removed so that I can unload everything ! Then, I will contribute to the economy by buying another GCB!
Look at this
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications_and_papers/reference/yearbook_2013/yos2013.pdf
Check item 4.2
from 2006 to 2012 - condo increased from 114.6K to 139.9K - in total it increased 25.3K
in 2011, condo dropped... Remember the years of enbloc....
from 3006 to 2012 - total housing increased from 1.054.1mil to 1.152mil - a total increase of 100,000 units...
Check item 2.1
from 2006 to 2012, population increased from 4.4mil to 5.3mil - in total it increase 900K
Now compare the 2 - population vs housing.... 900K increase in population vs 100k increase in housing of all types...
You can minus construction workers, etc.... and come up with your own conclusion... You can look at population of Singapore residents and come up with your own conclusion.....
Every year you see population stats.... from 2005, etc.... Where is the population stats for 2013???? Can someone tell me the population of Singapore for the year 2013??? Food for thought....
That is useful. How come no one else give you a thumbsup for always giving numbers with references?
:cheers1:
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 18:31
You know the buyers could use ABSD as an excuse to ask for a lower price, dun you?
Removing the SSD will start the ball rolling all over again. Good for everyone, dun u think?
You know the buyers could use ABSD as an excuse to ask for a lower price, dun you?
Removing the SSD will start the ball rolling all over again. Good for everyone, dun u think?
Sellers are also using ABSD as an excuse to up the asking price, as it will cost them more to find a replacement (if they already have other units).
Don't think SSD will be removed for previously transacted units lah, as usual, policies don't apply retroactively...
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 18:38
Sellers are also using ABSD as an excuse to up the asking price, as it will cost them more to find a replacement (if they already have other units).
Don't think SSD will be removed for previously transacted units lah, as usual, policies don't apply retroactively...
REMOVE THEM. NUFF SAID.
My view is that the policy should be that either all can own both (HDB and pte) or all cannot.
It's stupid to only allow people who buy HDB first to buy pte , but not the other way round.
yup, agree.
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 18:41
yup, agree.
I agree on that too. Why must I sell all my private before buying HDB, I wanna downgrade can ? HDB looks exactly like condo except for swimming pool I can go to public pools. For security, I have faith in our police.
Fairness is......
If I don't have it, others also can't have it.
Look at this
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications_and_papers/reference/yearbook_2013/yos2013.pdf
Check item 4.2
from 2006 to 2012 - condo increased from 114.6K to 139.9K - in total it increased 25.3K
in 2011, condo dropped... Remember the years of enbloc....
from 3006 to 2012 - total housing increased from 1.054.1mil to 1.152mil - a total increase of 100,000 units...
Check item 2.1
from 2006 to 2012, population increased from 4.4mil to 5.3mil - in total it increase 900K
Now compare the 2 - population vs housing.... 900K increase in population vs 100k increase in housing of all types...
You can minus construction workers, etc.... and come up with your own conclusion... You can look at population of Singapore residents and come up with your own conclusion.....
Every year you see population stats.... from 2005, etc.... Where is the population stats for 2013???? Can someone tell me the population of Singapore for the year 2013??? Food for thought....
Perhaps partly because of this, average household size increased from 3.46 to 3.53. (Item 4.1)
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 18:47
Fairness is......
If I don't have it, others also can't have it.
That is called SELFISH.
I agree wif u only if our population is not set to increase to 6.9mil.
the oversupply tat we r gonna see in the next 1-2 yrs is only temporal due to a mismatch. when the population gradually increases, we will be faced with inadequate supply/at most balance supply. So if there is no oversupply, how to find affordable depressed pte rental for such ppl?
There is little chance of under supply going forward. Already Biddadari has firm plans afoot. In the west they are clearing large tracts of forests at CCK and Tengah and preparing the land for new towns.
And 7mil population is not cast in stone considering the uncertain politics and economics going forward. Just look at JLD, until now there are still no concrete news of what will be the driving push behind it. And the kinds of foreigners and immigrants coming in these days are also of much lower economic calibre.
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 18:51
There is little chance of under supply going forward. Already Biddadari has firm plans afoot. In the west they are clearing large tracts of forests at CCK and Tengah and preparing the land for new towns.
And 7mil population is not cast in stone considering the uncertain politics and economics going forward. Just look at JLD, until now there are still no concrete news of what will be the driving push behind it. And the kinds of foreigners and immigrants coming in these days are also of much lower economic calibre.
Although the second paragraph I cannot agree but I agree with your first.
There are so many ample supply of land being cleared into the next 30 years, Marina Bay, Pasir Panjang, Paya Lebar Airport, and what have you. I think very low chance of under supply, u are right.
The question now is, are the MMs worth it into the future?
Yes. Tengah will be the next new estate. Have to design the estate to ensure not in the flight path of fighter planes.
Although the second paragraph I cannot agree but I agree with your first.
There are so many ample supply of land being cleared into the next 30 years, Marina Bay, Pasir Panjang, Paya Lebar Airport, and what have you. I think very low chance of under supply, u are right.
The question now is, are the MMs worth it into the future?
I agree on that too. Why must I sell all my private before buying HDB, I wanna downgrade can ? HDB looks exactly like condo except for swimming pool I can go to public pools. For security, I have faith in our police.
People who own HDB should not be allowed to own private property and vice versa. Period. There are enough classes of properties for people to play around not to touch HDBs. ECs, private, studios, commercial, industrial, dual keys and what have you.
HDB is subsidized housing (with public taxes) and meant for the common citizen who needs a roof over their heads. It serves a basic purpose. The government should never have went way beyond that (some way beyond that was fine). The whole idea of treating it as a constant appreciating asset has caused prices to escalate and become a speculative tool in the resale market, not to mention ingrain in people s minds that they will be able to sell their HDB for a bumper profit.
Let us not forget land is still limited in singapore. How much more land can they open up for more new housing estates? If the majority chooses to rent their HDB out and settle in private at some point of time we will hit a supply ceiling.
Just a couple of years ago the number of HDB that was sublet was in the region of 20k-30k. Now its over 50k!! SO many flats taken out of the market, and what real difference does it make to the people who sublet it out? Life and death? The rental they make probably just adds another zero to their bank account. All these flats could have been sold to genuine couples with a limited budget who actually want to settle down and start a family. Its a bloody waste of public resources.
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 20:01
This forum is great, can tell who are the insiders. I merely rant like a mad man to lure them all out.
WOAHAHHEHEHEHEHEH
I personally know of quite a few people renting out their redhill etc hdbs out at a tidy profit staying in D15, 9, 10 etc. They re drawing five figures and can probably afford to purchase another studio to rent out instead. So what purpose does it serve? It enriches the rich. Of coures you have poor old folks that are renting out also to fund their retirement, that I understand. But in cases like these, I really dont know the purpose of public housing.
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 20:05
I personally know of quite a few people renting out their redhill etc hdbs out at a tidy profit staying in D15, 9, 10 etc. They re drawing five figures and can probably afford to purchase another studio to rent out instead. So what purpose does it serve? It enriches the rich. Of coures you have poor old folks that are renting out also to fund their retirement, that I understand. But in cases like these, I really dont know the purpose of public housing.
i TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, good brother :) You have a kind heart, GOD will bless you.
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 20:07
Yes. Tengah will be the next new estate. Have to design the estate to ensure not in the flight path of fighter planes.
Yes, must be careful on this :)
That is called SELFISH.
Thought that's what you want?
blackjack21trader
04-09-13, 21:08
Thought that's what you want?
What can I say? YOU ARE CORRECT. I am only human.
WOAHAHAAHHEHEHEHHEH
The days of making "money" from properties are over.... Hahahahahahahaha
govt has nothing to gain if our ppty value stay stagnant.
govt has nothing to gain if our ppty value stay stagnant.
Ok... If u say so....
:)
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2013/5/35730/taxman-collects-1-03-billion-in-absd
Ok... If u say so....
:)
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2013/5/35730/taxman-collects-1-03-billion-in-absd
Which is why when you balance the potential tax gains and political mileage, you know when they will most likely remove some of the duties.
There is little chance of under supply going forward. Already Biddadari has firm plans afoot. In the west they are clearing large tracts of forests at CCK and Tengah and preparing the land for new towns.
And 7mil population is not cast in stone considering the uncertain politics and economics going forward. Just look at JLD, until now there are still no concrete news of what will be the driving push behind it. And the kinds of foreigners and immigrants coming in these days are also of much lower economic calibre.
the over supply mentioned abv seems to be more applicable in the case of public housing.
Which is why when you balance the potential tax gains and political mileage, you know when they will most likely remove some of the duties.
so when do u tink they will most likely remove absd?
You need to think deeper before making such comments.
During the earlier years, HDB flat owners could only rent out their spare rooms. If a family wanted to rent the whole apartment, they need to look at private property. Many HDB flat owners then locked up one room and rent out the entire flat anyway to beat the rule.
When there was a shortage of rented properties, the government allowed the renting of whole flat with the Board's approval. To this day, the policy has not been reversed.
Now that there could be an over supply of private properties, diverging the rental of whole flat back to the private market makes a lot of sense. HDB flats thus become a home for own stay. HDB owners can continue to rent out their spare rooms for extra incomes.
This proposed shift in policy will ensure that rental of private properties will not crush.
As long as there is sufficient rental units in the private market and HDB rooms for rental, market forces will ensure that rentals will be competitive. Those can afford to pay a little more can rent rooms in private flats or the entire apartment. Those who are on a smaller budget can rent rooms in HDB flats.
There is nothing new in the suggestion. The writer was simply suggesting that we should go back to where we were since now supply is catching up or even exceeding demand in the coming years.
BOTTOMLINE is that singapores housing mkt is in ONE BIG MESS there are SO many diffferent kinds of housing and so so so many laws/rules/regulations that whatever you do sure got some happy and some NOT happy so just be prepared for more and more glorious years of debate and discussions in the FORUMS that is:)
Although the second paragraph I cannot agree but I agree with your first.
There are so many ample supply of land being cleared into the next 30 years, Marina Bay, Pasir Panjang, Paya Lebar Airport, and what have you. I think very low chance of under supply, u are right.
The question now is, are the MMs worth it into the future?
In the future, housing will be more n more exp.
Affordable quantums make MMs very attractive..
so when do u tink they will most likely remove absd?
absd=another bloody stupid decision Wahaahahaha:doh::):scared-1:
In the future, housing will be more n more exp.
Affordable quantums make MMs very attractive..
bro in the FUTURE everything will be more X house car food the list goes on:doh:
But to be fair ONE thing has NOT gone up for a LONG LONG time the price of chill iced BEER:cheers1:in a coffeeshop cheers:):):)
bro in the FUTURE everything will be more X house car food the list goes on:doh:
precisely, so wouldnt MMs be more popular in the future?
Imagine A has a 1 bedder mm at 484sqft for sale while B hv a 650sqft mm. Which one is more affordable n can draw larger number of buyers?
precisely, so wouldnt MMs be more popular in the future?
Imagine A has a 1 bedder mm at 484sqft for sale while B hv a 650sqft mm. Which one is more affordable n can draw larger number of buyers?
if you ask me the future of spore property is something even a fortune teller will be confused about:D best is to play your own game if you are young learn from the old if you are old learn from the older if you older learn from the elders if you are very very old then prepare to go into a 16sft GOLDEN MM (casket) cos end of the day thats where we all going:D:D:D cheers bro look at my nick its the beer thats talking:cheers1:
if you ask me the future of spore property is something even a fortune teller will be confused about:D best is to play your own game if you are young learn from the old if you are old learn from the older if you older learn from the elders if you are very very old then prepare to go into a 16sft GOLDEN MM (casket) cos end of the day thats where we all going:D:D:D cheers bro look at my nick its the beer thats talking:cheers1:
If u think malaysia, indonesia, thailand, philipines, hk properties price will go higher in future so will singapore.
My coffee at toast box is now $1.80 in 2013, lets see whether in 2020 will it remain $1.80. What do u think?
You need to think deeper before making such comments.
During the earlier years, HDB flat owners could only rent out their spare rooms. If a family wanted to rent the whole apartment, they need to look at private property. Many HDB flat owners then locked up one room and rent out the entire flat anyway to beat the rule.
When there was a shortage of rented properties, the government allowed the renting of whole flat with the Board's approval. To this day, the policy has not been reversed.
Now that there could be an over supply of private properties, diverging the rental of whole flat back to the private market makes a lot of sense. HDB flats thus become a home for own stay. HDB owners can continue to rent out their spare rooms for extra incomes.
This proposed shift in policy will ensure that rental of private properties will not crush.
As long as there is sufficient rental units in the private market and HDB rooms for rental, market forces will ensure that rentals will be competitive. Those can afford to pay a little more can rent rooms in private flats or the entire apartment. Those who are on a smaller budget can rent rooms in HDB flats.
There is nothing new in the suggestion. The writer was simply suggesting that we should go back to where we were since now supply is catching up or even exceeding demand in the coming years.
lets take a look at impact on HDB. U create a situation where it will immediately devalue a HDB house. There is will definately a cap on upside. If you cant rent out a HDB and definately sell it when u upgrade, it puts a downward pressure on value of house. Nobody will buy resale. Will u buy? young will buy BTO 20% cheaper. PR will buy? wont buy also, no upside and dont know sell to who in future. U create a situation which 80% of population suffer.
anyone in the right mind will want to invest in a property which have upside, dont wanna stay can rent. All will buy a porperty hoping to rent out, cos now u coming Singapore u can only rent private!! So now how much is a average condo? $1m? how manys PRs can affort $2k-$3k rental?
Cannot rent HDB cos OWNER must occupy. Only source is PRIVATE housing. So your normal retail assistance come here work earn 2k stay condo. U buy HDB no more upside cos y? cos u got no one to sell it to. So price decline, while Private chong!!! cos only can rent Private. so how? forever cannot upgrade, the rich get richer, buy property rent to the poor. Poor become poor, cannot take part in the country's success.
The decision to rent is up to individual, but if you take the feature away it will immediately impact the growth potential of the one assets thats help the middle and lower class to ride the wave.
SARBO THE POOR and MIDDLE CLASS. COS YOUR PAY WILL NEVER CATCH UP with Asset appreciation!
SO tell me the suggestion stupid or not. CANNOT RENT HDB is not saboing 80% of Singaporeans?
If u think malaysia, indonesia, thailand, philipines, hk properties price will go higher in future so will singapore.
My coffee at toast box is now $1.80 in 2013, lets see whether in 2020 will it remain $1.80. What do u think?
Can meh. Everyone want to see pay increase. Complain wage suppression. Increase all the pay the cost can sell be 1.8 a coffee meh?
lets take a look at impact on HDB. U create a situation where it will immediately devalue a HDB house. There is will definately a cap on upside. If you cant rent out a HDB and definately sell it when u upgrade, it puts a downward pressure on value of house. Nobody will buy resale. Will u buy? young will buy BTO 20% cheaper. PR will buy? wont buy also, no upside and dont know sell to who in future. U create a situation which 80% of population suffer.
anyone in the right mind will want to invest in a property which have upside, dont wanna stay can rent. All will buy a porperty hoping to rent out, cos now u coming Singapore u can only rent private!! So now how much is a average condo? $1m? how manys PRs can affort $2k-$3k rental?
Cannot rent HDB cos OWNER must occupy. Only source is PRIVATE housing. So your normal retail assistance come here work earn 2k stay condo. U buy HDB no more upside cos y? cos u got no one to sell it to. So price decline, while Private chong!!! cos only can rent Private. so how? forever cannot upgrade, the rich get richer, buy property rent to the poor. Poor become poor, cannot take part in the country's success.
The decision to rent is up to individual, but if you take the feature away it will immediately impact the growth potential of the one assets thats help the middle and lower class to ride the wave.
SARBO THE POOR and MIDDLE CLASS. COS YOUR PAY WILL NEVER CATCH UP with Asset appreciation!
SO tell me the suggestion stupid or not. CANNOT RENT HDB is not saboing 80% of Singaporeans?
Aiyah the short sighted ones will tell u my home is roof not to make $ not to rent out. So don't tell me abt this. They will also don't want other people make $$ coz push up hdb price. Which they see have no value to them too. Coz home mah wat ever assest apperication also no meaning.
They forgot in emergency , or when upgrade they will need it. But some kpkb say I don't want upgrade head not so big no need such hat. So it's not important! So don't tell me valuation increase! Valuation increase is to collect more tax from me!!!!!
They all forget they will all die n this will be assest for their kids. N will also help them be social mobile.
But short sighted 1s tell u the dont f care. So?
Condem the rest of the less vocals 1s Loh.
They also forget denying a segment of population n force them to higher cost rental will in the end fan inflation. As the cost of housing such workers will end up being pass to the population.
Bro, be thankful for such people....
In a race of 100 people, if 80 think of winning, your chance damn slim.... But if 19 think of winning, your chances increase....
In the race, the 'losers' will say things like
- aiyo, why he train so hard, this is just a game wat
- must relax lar
- those winners sabo leh
And the list goes on.....
At the end of the day, you need to be thankful that many are not desperate for money.... You need to be glad that they are looking at the big pix. You need to be thankful they not hungry for investment. If all are good runners, you need to train even harder... Hahahahahaha
Aiyah the short sighted ones will tell u my home is roof not to make $ not to rent out. So don't tell me abt this. They will also don't want other people make $$ coz push up hdb price. Which they see have no value to them too. Coz home mah wat ever assest apperication also no meaning.
They forgot in emergency , or when upgrade they will need it. But some kpkb say I don't want upgrade head not so big no need such hat. So it's not important! So don't tell me valuation increase! Valuation increase is to collect more tax from me!!!!!
They all forget they will all die n this will be assest for their kids. N will also help them be social mobile.
But short sighted 1s tell u the dont f care. So?
Condem the rest of the less vocals 1s Loh.
They also forget denying a segment of population n force them to higher cost rental will in the end fan inflation. As the cost of housing such workers will end up being pass to the population.
In the future, housing will be more n more exp.
Affordable quantums make MMs very attractive..
Do you see this in the car market:confused::confused::confused:
When u go out, you see more lower quantum cars?????
Bro, be thankful for such people....
In a race of 100 people, if 80 think of winning, your chance damn slim.... But if 19 think of winning, your chances increase....
In the race, the 'losers' will say things like
- aiyo, why he train so hard, this is just a game wat
- must relax lar
- those winners sabo leh
And the list goes on.....
At the end of the day, you need to be thankful that many are not desperate for money.... You need to be glad that they are looking at the big pix. You need to be thankful they not hungry for investment. If all are good runners, you need to train even harder... Hahahahahaha
Hah hah true!
Hah hah true!
Bro, u tell them all your strategies, u not scared they take your advise and go in and become competitor. Then they pretend they are did not enter the market... They then confuse u and try to make u 'hippie' style but they gather bullet to hit u?
At the end of the day, more 'hippie' style means less competition leh.... Hahahahaha...
U nice and share, they say u heartless...:doh::doh:
Amber Woods
05-09-13, 08:24
There is so much public information out there for one to digest and make informed decisions.
When the government mentioned about bringing property prices down to 2009 level and having a Housing Affordability Index of 4, the majority of the population were pleased accept the minority who are either rich or multiple property owners.
This forum only serves as a platform for people to share and contribute and we know very well about 80% of the contributors here are vested. We can expect a lot of unhappy people in this forum since 80% of the contributors here are vested or largely belonging to the 20% (of the population) or aspired to be.
With this in mind, enjoy and speak your minds but be respectful to people who disagree with you.
blackjack21trader
05-09-13, 08:47
There is so much public information out there for one to digest and make informed decisions.
When the government mentioned about bringing property prices down to 2009 level and having a Housing Affordability Index of 4, the majority of the population were pleased accept the minority who are either rich or multiple property owners.
This forum only serves as a platform for people to share and contribute and we know very well about 80% of the contributors here are vested. We can expect a lot of unhappy people in this forum since 80% of the contributors here are vested or largely belonging to the 20% (of the population) or aspired to be.
With this in mind, enjoy and speak your minds but be respectful to people who disagree with you.
YOU ARE RIGHT, GOOD BROTHER !
And tell ya I am the 20%, and I have a PLAN:
OBAMA's CHANGE .
blackjack21trader
05-09-13, 08:49
I shall reveal to you the proper steps to take come this October !
But I have to wait for FED's minutes first before I can confirm the effectiveness of this strategy.
GOOD LUCK.
Do you see this in the car market:confused::confused::confused:
When u go out, you see more lower quantum cars?????
well, cars can be made smaller in the 1st place onot? :hell-hath-no-fury:
imagine a person wanna buy a 2 bedder. every thing being the same except the size. 650sqft @ $1300 ($845k) vs 900sqft @ $1150 ($1035k) makes a lot of diff wor!
Bro, be thankful for such people....
In a race of 100 people, if 80 think of winning, your chance damn slim.... But if 19 think of winning, your chances increase....
In the race, the 'losers' will say things like
- aiyo, why he train so hard, this is just a game wat
- must relax lar
- those winners sabo leh
And the list goes on.....
At the end of the day, you need to be thankful that many are not desperate for money.... You need to be glad that they are looking at the big pix. You need to be thankful they not hungry for investment. If all are good runners, you need to train even harder... Hahahahahaha
bro in a strange way you always make a lot of sense:D
Amber Woods
05-09-13, 10:03
YOU ARE RIGHT, GOOD BROTHER !
And tell ya I am the 20%, and I have a PLAN:
OBAMA's CHANGE .
I humbly also belong to that 20% but I prefer to discuss what seem to me obvious rather than advance or protect my own interests. I believe this is the way toward a more constructive engagement. It is nothing noble but just discuss what seem to be the things coming rather than trying to denie its existence.
precisely, so wouldnt MMs be more popular in the future?
Imagine A has a 1 bedder mm at 484sqft for sale while B hv a 650sqft mm. Which one is more affordable n can draw larger number of buyers?
I will sell a 650sqft mm @ a 484sqft price. :D But provided it is profiting
Bro, u tell them all your strategies, u not scared they take your advise and go in and become competitor. Then they pretend they are did not enter the market... They then confuse u and try to make u 'hippie' style but they gather bullet to hit u?
At the end of the day, more 'hippie' style means less competition leh.... Hahahahaha...
U nice and share, they say u heartless...:doh::doh:
Aiywah all singaporean. I am not selfish. made my $ liao. If Singapore can do better I am always happy. If Singapore better I will also become better too. Tai Kay Happy mah... unfortunately so many selfish people hor...
I will sell a 650sqft mm @ a 484sqft price. :D But provided it is profiting
u shd noe tat is is not possible at all, assume every aspect being the same.
the point tat Im trying to bring across is, older condos will find it harder & harder to sell in the future becos of the big & unaffordable quantum.
u shd noe tat is is not possible at all, assume every aspect being the same.
the point tat Im trying to bring across is, older condos will find it harder & harder to sell in the future becos of the big & unaffordable quantum.
Originally Posted by mermaid
precisely, so wouldnt MMs be more popular in the future?
Imagine A has a 1 bedder mm at 484sqft for sale while B hv a 650sqft mm. Which one is more affordable n can draw larger number of buyers?
:confused:
Originally Posted by mermaid
precisely, so wouldnt MMs be more popular in the future?
Imagine A has a 1 bedder mm at 484sqft for sale while B hv a 650sqft mm. Which one is more affordable n can draw larger number of buyers?
:confused:
tat means a person wanna buy a 1 bedder. he has a choice of either mm at 484sqft or a larger 1 bedder at 650sqft mm. I mean to say becos at the end of the day, the quantum for the 650sqft will be more unaffordable. hence the 484sq became relatively more attractive.
eg 484sqft X $1500 = $726k vs 650sqft X $1400 = $910k.
wat u tink?
winston churchill:
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries
voltaire:
The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor
i dont know why you the top 20% are all complaining about?
i quite agreed by the quote by voltaire.
my comfortable lifestyle depends on the poor. poor maids who work cheaply to clean the house. poor chauffeur who also work cheaply to drive me around. poor labourers who also work cheaply to take care of the plantation.
aren't you all glad that there are many poor to serve the top 20%?
winston churchill:
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries
voltaire:
The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor
i dont know why you the top 20% are all complaining about?
i quite agreed by the quote by voltaire.
my comfortable lifestyle depends on the poor. poor maids who work cheaply to clean the house. poor chauffeur who also work cheaply to drive me around. poor labourers who also work cheaply to take care of the plantation.
aren't you all glad that there are many poor to serve the top 20%?
lol ... how certain tat those lamenting r not the sandwiched class?
how do u define the top 20%?
With the incoming of more & more talents, one might no longer be in the top 20% anymore!
tat means a person wanna buy a 1 bedder. he has a choice of either mm at 484sqft or a larger 1 bedder at 650sqft mm. I mean to say becos at the end of the day, the quantum for the 650sqft will be more unaffordable. hence the 484sq became relatively more attractive.
eg 484sqft X $1500 = $726k vs 650sqft X $1400 = $910k.
wat u tink?
For own stay, if I cannot even afford a 650sqft MM, I would buy HDB. For investment, I assume the investors can afford both, so which one to choose mainly depends on the yield.
Back to this thread, I think current HDB policy is quite fair lah. Those owning condos and forbidden to buy HDB no need to be jealous. My HDB enbloc experience taught me that buying HDB won't make you better off, all depends on the timing. Note for BTO and HDB enbloc cases, the MOP is actually 7-8 years instead of 5 years hah...
To tell you the truth, if time could rewound, I would give up my HDB enbloc previleges although my HDB also appreciate a lot.
Think you hit the nail on the head!
Precisely the one complaining about high private property prices are those sandwiched between top 20%-30% who are nearly there being able to afford private property and suddenly the incoming foreign talents took over them and make it difficult for them to afford that private property, hence cpcb!
You think HDB dwellers who never think about living in private property care about private property prices? To them, making HDB flats prices cheap is the most important!
It is also the top 20-30% who are now living in HDB flats (make the profit from ah kong generosity first) and dreaming to upgrade to private properties who are complaining about high private property prices and wanting high HDB resale flat prices so that they don't have to come out much to upgrade to private property!
So ah kong want to listen to the 10% to push up HDB flat prices or the other 70% who want cheap HDB prices, who want HDB flats more as home than an asset?
lol ... how certain tat those lamenting r not the sandwiched class?
how do u define the top 20%?
With the incoming of more & more talents, one might no longer be in the top 20% anymore!
well, cars can be made smaller in the 1st place onot? :hell-hath-no-fury:
imagine a person wanna buy a 2 bedder. every thing being the same except the size. 650sqft @ $1300 ($845k) vs 900sqft @ $1150 ($1035k) makes a lot of diff wor!
but 5 seater cars - which one has more on the road??? High quantum or low quantum????
You look at car prices and tell me if Singaporeans are rich????
Hahahahahahaha
How to stay in 650sq 2 bedder???? Need to sleep standing leh.... Just a joke... Relax lar, we are not in a race, right???? I not racing with you rite???? Must be like bro Radha, have a beer...:cheers1:
but 5 seater cars - which one has more on the road??? High quantum or low quantum????
You look at car prices and tell me if Singaporeans are rich????
Hahahahahahaha
How to stay in 650sq 2 bedder???? Need to sleep standing leh.... Just a joke... Relax lar, we are not in a race, right???? I not racing with you rite???? Must be like bro Radha, have a beer...:cheers1:
most pple are in the race, the only pple who are not in the race are those who are already miles ahead of the rest and those bz working for their next meal.
of course anyone can opt out of the race anytime, but being human.. hard la...
With this in mind, enjoy and speak your minds but be respectful to people who disagree with you.
you can say someone is stupid cos u are entitled to your opinion. But u cannot the person eat $$$$ without proof. Shanmugan say one.
but 5 seater cars - which one has more on the road??? High quantum or low quantum????
You look at car prices and tell me if Singaporeans are rich????
Hahahahahahaha
How to stay in 650sq 2 bedder???? Need to sleep standing leh.... Just a joke... Relax lar, we are not in a race, right???? I not racing with you rite???? Must be like bro Radha, have a beer...:cheers1:
not say race mah, juz some thoughts for consideration wrt future purchase. yr race ended & get trophy liao while Im still a MTB who has juz joined the race.
I dun wanna ended up buying something which will hv a hard time selling in the future oso.
most pple are in the race, the only pple who are not in the race are those who are already miles ahead of the rest and those bz working for their next meal.
of course anyone can opt out of the race anytime, but being human.. hard la...
Opting out of the race is an option.
Office Boy took that option quite a while ago...
Staying in office watching all the drama pass by you is quite fun too!
DKSG
Amber Woods
05-09-13, 23:06
you can say someone is stupid cos u are entitled to your opinion. But u cannot the person eat $$$$ without proof. Shanmugan say one.
Calling people stupid or no brain is not defamatory but is disrespectful. It is socially unacceptable calling people stupid or without brain especially if you are engaging others in the community like in this forum.
There is so much public information out there for one to digest and make informed decisions.
When the government mentioned about bringing property prices down to 2009 level and having a Housing Affordability Index of 4, the majority of the population were pleased accept the minority who are either rich or multiple property owners.
This forum only serves as a platform for people to share and contribute and we know very well about 80% of the contributors here are vested. We can expect a lot of unhappy people in this forum since 80% of the contributors here are vested or largely belonging to the 20% (of the population) or aspired to be.
With this in mind, enjoy and speak your minds but be respectful to people who disagree with you.
Actually there are not so many unhappy people here leh.... They just voicing their opinion and during which may get into heated views.... Which is healthy....
I think the 20% actually don't mind.... Because all the money has been made....
I really don't think much of the affordability index u mentioned... It is just a smoke screen... It applies to hdb bto flats... Not resale or private...
The affordability will come in terms of subsidies/grants....
Here is ndr speech....
http://www.pmo.gov.sg/content/pmosite/mediacentre/speechesninterviews/primeminister/2013/August/prime-minister-lee-hsien-loong-s-national-day-rally-2013--speech.html#.Uijox2thiSM
Key points - up to your interpretation....
SHARING FRUITS OF PROGRESS THROUGH HOUSING
The HDB programme is not just about the roof over our heads. It is also a valuable nest egg. But it is not just a valuable nest egg. It is also a home, a home where we sink roots, where we raise families, where we build ties, friendships, emotional ties with our fellow Singaporeans
I do not think we want to do this by bringing down the BTO prices because that after a while will bring down all the resale market and everybody who owns a flat in Singapore will be hurt.
Ideally of course, you want the home, you want the asset, you want it all. One lady, a mother at a dialogue expressed this. She said she hoped her property would appreciate because it is hers and she wanted to keep its value, but then at the same time she wanted her kids to have cheaper housing. And then she laughed because she knew that you cannot really have both. You must decide which it is going to be. So we cannot deliver everything this mother is hoping for but we can maintain the value of HDB flats over the years, provided Singapore remains stable and strong. At the same time, we can keep the flats affordable for future flat buyers. And I will make sure that every Singaporean family who is working can afford an HDB flat. We can do that. What do I mean?
The affordability index will be achieved thru grants..... Think deep.....
Actually there are not so many unhappy people here leh.... They just voicing their opinion and during which may get into heated views.... Which is healthy....
I think the 20% actually don't mind.... Because all the money has been made....
I really don't think much of the affordability index u mentioned... It is just a smoke screen... It applies to hdb bto flats... Not resale or private...
The affordability will come in terms of subsidies/grants....
Here is ndr speech....
http://www.pmo.gov.sg/content/pmosite/mediacentre/speechesninterviews/primeminister/2013/August/prime-minister-lee-hsien-loong-s-national-day-rally-2013--speech.html#.Uijox2thiSM
Key points - up to your interpretation....
SHARING FRUITS OF PROGRESS THROUGH HOUSING
The HDB programme is not just about the roof over our heads. It is also a valuable nest egg. But it is not just a valuable nest egg. It is also a home, a home where we sink roots, where we raise families, where we build ties, friendships, emotional ties with our fellow Singaporeans
I do not think we want to do this by bringing down the BTO prices because that after a while will bring down all the resale market and everybody who owns a flat in Singapore will be hurt.
Ideally of course, you want the home, you want the asset, you want it all. One lady, a mother at a dialogue expressed this. She said she hoped her property would appreciate because it is hers and she wanted to keep its value, but then at the same time she wanted her kids to have cheaper housing. And then she laughed because she knew that you cannot really have both. You must decide which it is going to be. So we cannot deliver everything this mother is hoping for but we can maintain the value of HDB flats over the years, provided Singapore remains stable and strong. At the same time, we can keep the flats affordable for future flat buyers. And I will make sure that every Singaporean family who is working can afford an HDB flat. We can do that. What do I mean?
The affordability index will be achieved thru grants..... Think deep.....
Government is supporting current BTO price by grant, such that the young couple buyers can buy " cheap" . A higher BTO price will support higher resale HDB price, which in turn will support the current price of EC and mass PC. The government is the one that is supporting the high price of property. With so much investment in infrastructures, upgrading of older facilities and expansion of new urban centers, the land price will only go up to fund these investment.
Amber Woods
06-09-13, 09:38
Prices have to come down before it goes up again. That is how to maintain a sustainable market.
Just like the stock market, when the market reaches to very high PER, the market will corrects and it is only healthy for the market to correct
Think deeper!
Prices have to come down before it goes up again. That is how to maintain a sustainable market.
Just like the stock market, when the market reaches to very high PER, the market will corrects and it is only healthy for the market to correct
Think deeper!
it is not healthy for mkt to always correct.
At the end of each correction, prices will soar higher den b4.
low BTO price only exists in pre-mature areas. I just heard the price of Ghim Moh (10 minutes away from MRT) 4rm BTO has reached 600k.
The goverment does use the money of relative rich people to subsidy the less rich ones.
Amber Woods
06-09-13, 10:03
it is not healthy for mkt to always correct.
At the end of each correction, prices will soar higher den b4.
The longer the market stays high, the greater is the correction. This is how the market works.
The market is always right. We are not in control how long and often market should correct. Unlike the stock market, real estate market takes a longer time to react and hence correction is not often thus any correction can be more impactful.
Amber Woods
06-09-13, 10:10
low BTO price only exists in pre-mature areas. I just heard the price of Ghim Moh (10 minutes away from MRT) 4rm BTO has reached 600k.
The goverment does use the money of relative rich people to subsidy the less rich ones.
More first timers will go for BTO and resale will eventually takes a hit which is the case now. As reported in the Straits Times today, developers are pricing their new launches lower and analysts expect resale prices will also adjust itself downward.
The market is just starting to react to the new measures. Like I said, real estate market is less elastic and it takes a longer time to react.
The longer the market stays high, the greater is the correction. This is how the market works.
tis time round the ppty market soar longer den b4 ... tat means the greater the correction?
but KBW assured oni soft landing wor ...
u foreseen how many % correction will happen in pte ppty?
low BTO price only exists in pre-mature areas. I just heard the price of Ghim Moh (10 minutes away from MRT) 4rm BTO has reached 600k.
The goverment does use the money of relative rich people to subsidy the less rich ones.
Well people have choice mah. want good location have to pay. loh. well at least the less well of benifits.
Amber Woods
06-09-13, 13:03
tis time round the ppty market soar longer den b4 ... tat means the greater the correction?
but KBW assured oni soft landing wor ...
u foreseen how many % correction will happen in pte ppty?
It is nice to know someone here has the "courage" to acknowledge that the market will be experiencing a soft landing. Without the government's measures, a soft landing is not possible. This soft landing may last 2 years, 3 years (nobody can predicts) until the government achieves its objective in balancing the needs of the population. Not withstanding any crisis, this soft landing is here to stay for a while.
It is nice to know someone here has the "courage" to acknowledge that the market will be experiencing a soft landing. Without the government's measures, a soft landing is not possible. This soft landing may last 2 years, 3 years (nobody can predicts) until the government achieves its objective in balancing the needs of the population. Not withstanding any crisis, this soft landing is here to stay for a while.
the someone u r referring to me?
u muz be mistaken. it is totally within my expectation for prices to correct by 5%-10% due to the temporal over supply in the next 1-2 yrs.
but I dun believe in a crash unless there is some external shocks.
mayb im wrong, but even if market were to crash, better still for me cos Im baiting for a MM.
Amber Woods
06-09-13, 13:28
the someone u r referring to me?
u muz be mistaken. it is totally within my expectation for prices to correct by 5%-10% due to the temporal over supply in the next 1-2 yrs.
but I dun believe in a crash unless there is some external shocks.
mayb im wrong, but even if market were to crash, better still for me cos Im baiting for a MM.
I am not mistaken. I am saying you have the "courage" to acknowledge a soft landing without "fear" of the wrath of the majority here who are like you expecting a soft landing but deny its coming.
blackjack21trader
06-09-13, 17:12
You guys are focusing on the wrong target. Take your August transaction and think hard.
Think:
Q. Do You know who are the ones that can still afford buying after the CMs ? Which group is the one actually being stopped in the track? Unintended ones, maybe ?
Q. If prices continue to edge up, what does it imply socially as a whole ? Who can afford to upgrade and who cannot? You and me unhappy only?
Some here say they already earn enough so they do not care. What is enough ? Do not be gullible, the chickens will come back to roast. That day will be the day you realise you cannot unload your private properties.
Good Luck, that is all I can reveal.
blackjack21trader
06-09-13, 17:17
Good Luck.
blackjack21trader
06-09-13, 17:29
A mistake has been made as I said before. This mistake is made by the developers and the blue whale investors. They built too many high quantum big size units in CCR before 2010. Their anticipation is that the Chinese will buy up these units. But did they? Look at what these rich are actually buying instead.
That is why a quantum beyond the S$2million for more than 1000sqft older CCR unit, you will be stuck.
Believe your uncle or not is up to you.
Calling people stupid or no brain is not defamatory but is disrespectful. It is socially unacceptable calling people stupid or without brain especially if you are engaging others in the community like in this forum.
okie i have explained y i feel the suggestion is stupid in my OPINION. FEEL free to challenge my view why its is not. I am engaging his suggestion, why i think its stupid after my DEEP meditation. Are you going to engage the logic behind his suggestion or u rather Focus on the word "stupid"
come lets engage based on his suggest how it will benefit everyone or most of the population and most importantly the future generation of HDB house owners.
thomastansb
07-09-13, 00:37
CCR big units are in serious trouble. Already quite a number are selling at massive loss. Maybe 300k loss is nothing to them but to me, it is a lot !!!!
HDB resale already dipping so I guess the end of property market.
A mistake has been made as I said before. This mistake is made by the developers and the blue whale investors. They built too many high quantum big size units in CCR before 2010. Their anticipation is that the Chinese will buy up these units. But did they? Look at what these rich are actually buying instead.
That is why a quantum beyond the S$2million for more than 1000sqft older CCR unit, you will be stuck.
Believe your uncle or not is up to you.
CCR big units are in serious trouble. Already quite a number are selling at massive loss. Maybe 300k loss is nothing to them but to me, it is a lot !!!!
HDB resale already dipping so I guess the end of property market.
But why are prices continuing to rise, albeit slowly? Clearly prices are now increasing less than inflation, but they are still on the rise.
i am actually looking for 2 bedder CCR (not super luxury kind: definitely less than 2100psf) and in this market i think this is probably safest for three reasons:
1. narrow price gap between CCR and OCR;
2. no competition against so many shoeboxes coming out now;
3. less risk of big loss with big units.
But i still found it hard to look for good deals. Market is still quite firm :(
I learn a lot from this forum and I noticed the difference between positive thinking and negative thinking.
Those top 20% of rich people who earn by themselves and not inherited are people who are more positive thinking. These people know nobody own them a living therefore they run the rat race more eagerly and try to beat the race therefore they workhard and smart. These people are also generally more generous in some ways. These people also has the right attitude in life.
Those negative thinking people will tend to complain about life been unfair and like everyone own them a living. If they don't get it, others also cannot get it unlike positive thinking people. These people do not have the right attitude in life.
Affordable houses are hard to determine at what price is affordable. Those negative thinking has ever think why others can afford and not them? If cannot afford then these people got to do something in life to change. Has food price rises? Yes! So don't houses price will not rise? Do you wish your salary to increase or stagnant forever like what people suggest about houses price not to increase? Yes, property price rises faster than salary whuch is call inflation. Many things prices increases which also happen in many countries not just Singapore. That is Capitalism side effects. What to do? Everyone kana not just negative thinking people. But it is the positive thinking people that willing to change and take charge of their life.
Individual has responsibility for themselves and not others responsible for them. Who can help you if you don't help yourself first.
Well, I am nobody to reprimand anyone but just hope those negative thinking people to change their thoughts. It is the thinking that affect your perspective and your behavior and it will change your life. Good night!
But why are prices continuing to rise, albeit slowly? Clearly prices are now increasing less than inflation, but they are still on the rise.
i am actually looking for 2 bedder CCR (not super luxury kind: definitely less than 2100psf) and in this market i think this is probably safest for three reasons:
1. narrow price gap between CCR and OCR;
2. no competition against so many shoeboxes coming out now;
3. less risk of big loss with big units.
But i still found it hard to look for good deals. Market is still quite firm :(
Agreeable.....:cheers1::cheers1: the issue is ABSD is causing the fall and ABSD is also the one preventing people to buy.... If no ABSD, many would cheong CCR.... Many buying small quantum because of ABSD.... Hahahaha
Bro, look at this chart
http://www.srx.com.sg/srx/index.jsp?link=spi
August 2013 index srx (for condo) is 186.8
August 2012 index is 167.3
August 2011 index is 156.1
So many nay Sayers here kept saying prices will drop since don't know when.... Of course one day they will get it right.... HAHAHAHAHAHA
This people never travel leh????? They never see New York, Paris, London, :doh::doh::doh:
They don't understand that population will still increase, economy will still grow, developers are still buying at higher prices and because of this, the govt is trying to control and prevent the prices to increase drastically....
:doh::doh::doh:
I am not saying prices will shoot up!!!! I have already shifted my money to greener pasture... So property play is now out for me.... Makes no diff to me.. Hahahaha
I learn a lot from this forum and I noticed the difference between positive thinking and negative thinking.
Those top 20% of rich people who earn by themselves and not inherited are people who are more positive thinking. These people know nobody own them a living therefore they run the rat race more eagerly and try to beat the race therefore they workhard and smart. These people are also generally more generous in some ways. These people also has the right attitude in life.
Those negative thinking people will tend to complain about life been unfair and like everyone own them a living. If they don't get it, others also cannot get it unlike positive thinking people. These people do not have the right attitude in life.
Affordable houses are hard to determine at what price is affordable. Those negative thinking has ever think why others can afford and not them? If cannot afford then these people got to do something in life to change. Has food price rises? Yes! So don't houses price will not rise? Do you wish your salary to increase or stagnant forever like what people suggest about houses price not to increase? Yes, property price rises faster than salary whuch is call inflation. Many things prices increases which also happen in many countries not just Singapore. That is Capitalism side effects. What to do? Everyone kana not just negative thinking people. But it is the positive thinking people that willing to change and take charge of their life.
Individual has responsibility for themselves and not others responsible for them. Who can help you if you don't help yourself first.
Well, I am nobody to reprimand anyone but just hope those negative thinking people to change their thoughts. It is the thinking that affect your perspective and your behavior and it will change your life. Good night!
Hi Bro, just sit back and enjoy life!
Bro, look at this chart
http://www.srx.com.sg/srx/index.jsp?link=spi
August 2013 index srx (for condo) is 186.8
August 2012 index is 167.3
August 2011 index is 156.1
So many nay Sayers here kept saying prices will drop since don't know when.... Of course one day they will get it right.... HAHAHAHAHAHA
This people never travel leh????? They never see New York, Paris, London, :doh::doh::doh:
They don't understand that population will still increase, economy will still grow, developers are still buying at higher prices and because of this, the govt is trying to control and prevent the prices to increase drastically....
:doh::doh::doh:
I am not saying prices will shoot up!!!! I have already shifted my money to greener pasture... So property play is now out for me.... Makes no diff to me.. Hahahaha
Hi Bro, just sit back and enjoy life!
Bro, I really enjoying life Liao.... Traveling around playing golf... HAHAHAHAHAHA... Must try as amany new courses... Property play has no more meat.... At least for me...
:cheers1::cheers1:
People are going for the bone now. Look at the recent land sale at yishun.
Bro, I really enjoying life Liao.... Traveling around playing golf... HAHAHAHAHAHA... Must try as amany new courses... Property play has no more meat.... At least for me...
:cheers1::cheers1:
I learn a lot from this forum and I noticed the difference between positive thinking and negative thinking.
Those top 20% of rich people who earn by themselves and not inherited are people who are more positive thinking. These people know nobody own them a living therefore they run the rat race more eagerly and try to beat the race therefore they workhard and smart. These people are also generally more generous in some ways. These people also has the right attitude in life.
Those negative thinking people will tend to complain about life been unfair and like everyone own them a living. If they don't get it, others also cannot get it unlike positive thinking people. These people do not have the right attitude in life.
Affordable houses are hard to determine at what price is affordable. Those negative thinking has ever think why others can afford and not them? If cannot afford then these people got to do something in life to change. Has food price rises? Yes! So don't houses price will not rise? Do you wish your salary to increase or stagnant forever like what people suggest about houses price not to increase? Yes, property price rises faster than salary whuch is call inflation. Many things prices increases which also happen in many countries not just Singapore. That is Capitalism side effects. What to do? Everyone kana not just negative thinking people. But it is the positive thinking people that willing to change and take charge of their life.
Individual has responsibility for themselves and not others responsible for them. Who can help you if you don't help yourself first.
Well, I am nobody to reprimand anyone but just hope those negative thinking people to change their thoughts. It is the thinking that affect your perspective and your behavior and it will change your life. Good night!
Yalor, that's what I'm thinking too.
People are going for the bone now. Look at the recent land sale at yishun.
Bro, the developers all minimal land bank... So the land from gls is their meat... But in this case, no meat - bone also can... HAHAHAHAHAHA
But the yishun one is different.... The commercial part has meat... Look at frasers - centre point, anchor point, etc.... That is one of their forte...
Read this...
http://clubs.ntu.edu.sg/rms/researchreports/Property%20Market%20Risks%20in%20Singapore.pdf
Interesting....:D
Consumers will suffer as things in this area will never be cheap anymore.
Bro, the developers all minimal land bank... So the land from gls is their meat... But in this case, no meat - bone also can... HAHAHAHAHAHA
But the yishun one is different.... The commercial part has meat... Look at frasers - centre point, anchor point, etc.... That is one of their forte...
Consumers will suffer as things in this area will never be cheap anymore.
Brudder, look at > 20 years ago... I think someone with 1 mil can retire... Today leh???? That's the price to pay with progress and prosperity....
You look at salaries in Thailand or Indonesia, then u compare with cost of living...
Look at NY, HK and look at cost of living - it is also tight with property prices...
Bro, we just do our part and share with our kids - investment plans and inflation theory....
I bring my kids traveling and open up their eyes and views of the world.... :D:D
Yup. My dad's generation can retire with a couple of million and we have to at least double that to be comfortable. :D
Brudder, look at > 20 years ago... I think someone with 1 mil can retire... Today leh???? That's the price to pay with progress and prosperity....
You look at salaries in Thailand or Indonesia, then u compare with cost of living...
Look at NY, HK and look at cost of living - it is also tight with property prices...
Bro, we just do our part and share with our kids - investment plans and inflation theory....
I bring my kids traveling and open up their eyes and views of the world.... :D:D
Yup. My dad's generation can retire with a couple of million and we have to at least double that to be comfortable. :D
Brudder, I dare not say how much money we need to retire here... If I say, people think I siao.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
:D:D:D
I suppose retirement should not be a downgrade of lifestyle. I am not surprised on the amount needed.
Brudder, I dare not say how much money we need to retire here... If I say, people think I siao.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
:D:D:D
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 09:32
My expense is already $15,000 a month for FIXED expenses now. How much do you think you will need?
I bet your estimated retirement fund now will not be enough also.
DUMBS can be dumber !
I suppose retirement should not be a downgrade of lifestyle. I am not surprised on the amount needed.
Bro, retirement will be a downgrade for most... At retirement age...
But if an individual wants early retirement, there are 2 ways
- retirement with downgrade because of health issue, etc...
- or retirement w/o change in lifestyle (if no health issue,etc... And using it as option)...
Even for the top 10%, most will retire with some lifestyle changes....
:D:D
There will be no changes to my lifestyle... If not for me, not worth it....
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Amber Woods
07-09-13, 09:49
You said this earlier:
Thats assuming everyone is able to afford a private condo rental. The person write without using his brain.
Now you said this:
okie i have explained y i feel the suggestion is stupid in my OPINION. FEEL free to challenge my view why its is not. I am engaging his suggestion, why i think its stupid after my DEEP meditation. Are you going to engage the logic behind his suggestion or u rather Focus on the word "stupid"
come lets engage based on his suggest how it will benefit everyone or most of the population and most importantly the future generation of HDB house owners.
As the Chinese's saying: when a scholar meets a solider, there can be no engagement.
You said this earlier:
Now you said this:
As the Chinese's saying: when a scholar meets a solider, there can be no engagement.
I personally find he has a right to his opinion and u shouldn't push your idealogy onto people leh....
So who's the soldier and who's the scholar in your statement???? No need so personal rite.... Speak your views can Liao wat.... But u cannot insist people must agree with you wat... Just like you say it is a done deal tha tp rices will drop 10% or so within 2 years... It's your opinion wat.... People challenge u and u say they deceiving themselves.... You need to be truly open and not perceive to be open leh....
:)
Amber Woods
07-09-13, 10:05
I personally find he has a right to his opinion and u shouldn't push your idealogy onto people leh....
So who's the soldier and who's the scholar in your statement???? No need so personal rite.... Speak your views can Liao wat.... But u cannot insist people must agree with you wat... Just like you say it is a done deal tha tp rices will drop 10% or so within 2 years... It's your opinion wat.... People challenge u and u say they deceiving themselves.... You need to be truly open and not perceive to be open leh....
:)
He said the writer wrote without his brain. I pointed out that it is socially not acceptable to call people stupid or without brain. Now he said he meant "his opinion is stupid".
This is the case. If you are not in the loop, hope this clarify.
He said the writer's wrote without his brain. I pointed out that it is socially not acceptable to call people stupid or without brain. Now he said he meant "his opinion is stupid".
This is the case. If you are not in the loop, hope this clarify.
Brudder, when an opinion is stupid, to me it is similar to not using his brain rite????
Can u tell me a situation whereby an opinion is stupid and the person used his brain to come out with such a stupid suggestion??? Bothe the same wat??? It's just the choice of words...
There are people in the forum going around calling people dumb, etc... And u only pick on him???? That's not rite leh... I am really speaking my honest opinion.... If u disagree, I respect... No problem...
If u only pick on him but don't pick on the rest who use such words, u will also be deemed to be partial rite...
Bro, this is a forum, relax and enjoy.... Things u don't like, just shut it off... Cannot have too much moderation rite....
Cheers.....
:cheers1::D
No ill intention here hor (from me, that is) :cheers1:
My expense is already $15,000 a month for FIXED expenses now. How much do you think you will need?
.....
bro, u still in small league
http://news.asiaone.com/news/plush/local-socialite-jamie-chua-shows-hermes-house-online
seeking $450,000 a month for alimony
Amber Woods
07-09-13, 10:31
Brudder, when an opinion is stupid, to me it is similar to not using his brain rite????
Can u tell me a situation whereby an opinion is stupid and the person used his brain to come out with such a stupid suggestion??? Bothe the same wat??? It's just the choice of words...
There are people in the forum going around calling people dumb, etc... And u only pick on him???? That's not rite leh... I am really speaking my honest opinion.... If u disagree, I respect... No problem...
If u only pick on him but don't pick on the rest who use such words, u will also be deemed to be partial rite...
Bro, this is a forum, relax and enjoy.... Things u don't like, just shut it off... Cannot have too much moderation rite....
Cheers.....
:cheers1::D
No ill intention here hor (from me, that is) :cheers1:
Calling people stupid or no brain is not defamatory but is disrespectful. It is socially unacceptable calling people stupid or without brain especially if you are engaging others in the community like in this forum.
It is really up to you to continue calling people stupid or no brain just because he or she shares different ideas. Like I said above, calling people names such as stupid or no brain is not defamatory but is disrespectful. It is socially unacceptable calling people stupid or without brain especially if you are engaging others in the community like in this forum.
If wish to engage with people meaningfully in this forum, you will appreciate my efforts. I just hope that name calling in this forum is to become history (after MR B's case).
It is really up to you to continue calling people stupid or no brain just because he or she shares different ideas. Like I said above, calling people names such as stupid or no brain is not defamatory but is disrespectful. It is socially unacceptable calling people stupid or without brain especially if you are engaging others in the community like in this forum.
If wish to engage with people meaningfully in this forum, you will appreciate my efforts. I just hope that name calling in this forum is to become history (after MR B's case).
Bro, emotion run high in engagements and words will be spoken....
Even in a vocal environment, 4 letter words are spoken...
But I respect your wishes for hoping to make this a better place...:cheers1:
But hor, really not need to say things like scholar and soldiers lar... I hope u get my drift...
:cheers1:
Amber Woods
07-09-13, 10:40
Bro, emotion run high in engagements and words will be spoken....
Even in a vocal environment, 4 letter words are spoken...
But I respect your wishes for hoping to make this a better place...:cheers1:
But hor, really not need to say things like scholar and soldiers lar... I hope u get my drift...
:cheers1:
The Chinese's proverb is to describe the difficulties to communicate between a scholar and a solider. It is by no means offending if you do appreciate Chinese's proverb.
However, I spologise if it sounds offensive to some people.
....
As the Chinese's saying: when a scholar meets a solider, there can be no engagement.
there is no need for engagement since a soldier will beat up a scholar anytime.
my advise: in modern times, when a soldier point his gun at you, do as he says and dont try to debate the cruelty of war or any other airy fairy topics with the soldier ok.
there is no need for engagement since a soldier will beat up a scholar anytime.
my advise: in modern times, when a soldier point his gun at you, do as he says and dont try to debate the cruelty of war or any other airy fairy topics with the soldier ok.
why u need a solider? or scholar? nothing can beat a KPKB with a facebook account and a twitter account.
Published on Sep 04, 2013
THE current policy requiring private property owners to sell their homes if they buy HDB flats affects many retirees who want to downgrade and rent out their residences ("Home ownership rules: HDB replies", Aug 23; and "Minimum occupation period not the issue" by Mrs Chloe Loke, Forum Online, last Wednesday).
In contrast, HDB flat owners, after satisfying the minimum occupation period, can buy private properties and choose to keep their flats. They have the benefit of renting out either their HDB flats or private properties.
With the huge supply of private properties coming on-stream over the next few years to cater to the rental market, perhaps it is timely for the HDB to review its policy of allowing the rental of whole HDB flats.
It should continue to allow an HDB flat owner who buys private property after satisfying the minimum occupation period to retain the flat - but he must continue to live in it.
To ensure fairness, a private property owner who buys an HDB flat must also live in it.
Since both HDB flat owner and private property owner must live in their flats, this will leave them the option of renting out their private properties, ensuring sufficient private homes in the rental market.
http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/forum-letters/story/ensuring-fairness-home-ownership-20130904
I SHOULD BE ALLOW TO AFFORD A GCB!!!! NOT FAIR!
why u need a solider? or scholar? nothing can beat a KPKB with a facebook account and a twitter account.
The old saying is the pen is mightier than the sword. In modern times, the keyboard is the most offensive weapon.
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 13:59
I SHOULD BE ALLOW TO AFFORD A GCB!!!! NOT FAIR!
Totally agree with you good brother !
The rest are DUMBS.
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 14:01
bro, u still in small league
http://news.asiaone.com/news/plush/local-socialite-jamie-chua-shows-hermes-house-online
seeking $450,000 a month for alimony
Here you are referring to the top 1% liao. There are still 10% or so in my small league.
WOAHAHHEHEHEHEHEH
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 14:03
I agree with brother Amber Woods. If one is of SOUND MIND, one should not call others DUMBS.
For myself, as good brothers like Amber would know, I am of THE UNSOUND MIND, so I am exempted.
DUMDS GETTING EVEN DUMBER !
WOAAHHEHHEHEH
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 14:04
I have 2 minds- one sound and another unsound.
I will selectively choose the deserving mind to engage the selfish ones here.
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 14:06
I tell you, in my opinion, in less than 3 years,
someone here will KPKB as the RP divide gets even wider. Then he/she will learn to be humble.
dun believe mark this post.
RP divide will get worse.
Yishun condo going to be 1600+ psf. HDB prices prevented from rising much by Govt measures. bye bye to upgrader's dream. Just be happy to get yourself a BTO and stay there for the rest of your lives.
RP divide will get worse.
Yishun condo going to be 1600+ psf. HDB prices prevented from rising much by Govt measures. bye bye to upgrader's dream. Just be happy to get yourself a BTO and stay there for the rest of your lives.
Just bcos the Thais hope to sell at 1600+ psf does not mean you must buy. As long as people balk at the price, developer will eventually have to lower their margin.
I tell you, in my opinion, in less than 3 years,
someone here will KPKB as the RP divide gets even wider. Then he/she will learn to be humble.
dun believe mark this post.
But may I ask, since u have been saying price will drop... If price drop across the board, then actually the divide will get narrower right? :ashamed1:
Well, I thought that the prices being asked for OCR condos are ridiculous these days but people are still buying.....which is what has led to CM after CM after CM until :doh:
It is about time people call the developers' bluff and refuse to buy until the developers lelong lelong eh?
But people are still trying to squeeze through the loopholes by using kids' names to buy so how?
walkthetiger
07-09-13, 15:35
It is about time people call the developers' bluff and refuse to buy until the developers lelong lelong eh?
People should do it now.... hold and wait.... With so much gov’s plan in the pipeline, there is really no shortage of nicer and better project coming up. So why rush in now to agree with some developers’ ridiculous quoted prices...
Some really deserve a wake up call.
That is herd mentality and kaisu syndrome. :D
People should do it now.... hold and wait.... With so much gov’s plan in the pipeline, there is really no shortage of nicer and better project coming up. So why rush in now to agree with some developers’ ridiculous quoted prices...
Some really deserve a wake up call.
People should do it now.... hold and wait.... With so much gov’s plan in the pipeline, there is really no shortage of nicer and better project coming up. So why rush in now to agree with some developers’ ridiculous quoted prices...
Some really deserve a wake up call.
I totally agree.
It's about time the developers wake up and stop making ridiculously high priced bids for land in far flung places.
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 16:05
But may I ask, since u have been saying price will drop... If price drop across the board, then actually the divide will get narrower right? :ashamed1:
Refer to what sister chiaberry mentioned about Yishun being S$1600psf.
I am saying that I am saying that the price will drop, get it?
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 16:07
Just bcos the Thais hope to sell at 1600+ psf does not mean you must buy. As long as people balk at the price, developer will eventually have to lower their margin.
You got the point. That is why I am the one shouting crash way way before all these . My gut feeling was then some kancheong developers will definately escalate the already hot market. My intention is for all here in this forum to follow me to shout CRASH to pass the wrong signal to these developers lurking around here and borrowing our ideas.
Now you believe in my THIRD EYE liao bo?
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 16:10
If those supposedly clever BULLS in this forum had known what is coming next like now, they would not be so dumb as to shout rocket in this forum and put the most illuminated me down.
They should do the reverse like me. But instead they said they already earned enough so they do not care. So selfish.
Well, YOU ALREADY EARNED ENOUGH. FOR ME IT WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH OK, GET IT?
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 16:13
Now it is all too late now. The developers lurking in this forum already absorbed the message and no return for the wannabe investors/upgraders.
I knew this is coming so urgently, that is why I DID WHAT I DID, GET IT GET IT? HOW DUMB ARE YOU? CALL YOURSELF SEASONED INVESTOR, more like SCISSORED INVESTOR la.
really SABOTAGE OWN PEOPLE :(
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 16:19
Now it is all too late now. The developers lurking in this forum already absorbed the message and no return for the wannabe investors/upgraders.
I knew this is coming so urgently, that is why I DID WHAT I DID, GET IT GET IT? HOW DUMB ARE YOU? CALL YOURSELF SEASONED INVESTOR, more like SCISSORED INVESTOR la.
really SABOTAGE OWN PEOPLE :(
First the de-link came in landed and I could tell myself "OH SHIT this will diffuse to the rest of the property segments like private condos."
I knew it will happen someday but NOT SO SOON. if you COOL down the market by words of mouth in this forum, the developers lurking around will not be so BOLD.
Even the BIG BROTHERS came out to help you guys. BUT WHAT YOU SAY? WHAT DID YOU SAY IN THIS FORUM?
NOW IT HAD HAPPENED, IT is time for me to say GOODBYE, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN NOW.
For me, I have a big inheritance, so I do not mind not upgrading or not in the game. Cannot say the same for the 20% that is in this forum.
GOOD LUCK !
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 16:28
"THE ONES THAT SAY PROPERTY MARKET WILL DROP ARE ACTUALLY THE KIND AND COMPASSIONATE BIG BROTHERS, They know YOU GUYS WILL never be competitive enough to stay in the game. So they have your interests at heart and say it for you. REMEMBER THIS FINAL WORDS BY ME."- final last words by BJ21T
Those that say rocket in an already rocket market are the greedy fools instead.
walkthetiger
07-09-13, 17:01
"THE ONES THAT SAY PROPERTY MARKET WILL DROP ARE ACTUALLY THE KIND AND COMPASSIONATE BIG BROTHERS, They know YOU GUYS WILL never be competitive enough to stay in the game. So they have your interests at heart and say it for you. REMEMBER THIS FINAL WORDS BY ME."- final last words by BJ21T
Those that say rocket in an already rocket market are the greedy fools instead.
Correct.
There is no need to suck the mass-market investors till their last drop of blood, rather keeping them alive to ensure the market still healthy for long run.
Dumb & wasting time arguing market up down.
Market goes in cycle and subject to global economic, political, unforseen events like Sara, bird flu, etc. Only a fool say he can predict exactly when is up or down
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 18:09
Dumb & wasting time arguing market up down.
Market goes in cycle and subject to global economic, political, unforseen events like Sara, bird flu, etc. Only a fool say he can predict exactly when is up or down
I have risen from my grave when you said that. Are you implying I am a FOOL since I always do FENGSHUI CELESTIAL PREDICTION for my readers?
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 18:12
Dumb & wasting time arguing market up down.
Market goes in cycle and subject to global economic, political, unforseen events like Sara, bird flu, etc. Only a fool say he can predict exactly when is up or down
I PREDICT THE FIRST PLACE YOU VISIT AFTER YOU WAKE UP TOMM IS THE TOILET BOWL!
AM I ACCURATE ? NOW YOU BELIVE IN MY THIRD EYE LIAOBO?
RP divide will get worse.
Yishun condo going to be 1600+ psf. HDB prices prevented from rising much by Govt measures. bye bye to upgrader's dream. Just be happy to get yourself a BTO and stay there for the rest of your lives.
the poor asked for it. The hv oni themselves to blame.
Now wif absd/ssd/tdsr, sandwiched class will be the next to kpkb.
so wat will happen?
felicia_sg
07-09-13, 20:50
The poor (bottom 70%) will be very happy HDB flats remain cheap! They are not upgrading to private anyway, why they care about private property prices?
Only that borderline 20-30% rich (count from top) will kpkb. But they only make up about 10%, why should gov care & lose the other 70% of votes? :rolleyes:
the poor asked for it. The hv oni themselves to blame.
Now wif absd/ssd/tdsr, sandwiched class will be the next to kpkb.
so wat will happen?
walkthetiger
07-09-13, 21:19
The poor (bottom 70%) will be very happy HDB flats remain cheap! They are not upgrading to private anyway, why they care about private property prices?
Only that borderline 20-30% rich (count from top) will kpkb. But they only make up about 10%, why should gov care & lose the other 70% of votes? :rolleyes:
Private is exclusive, should be ready for no government assist or help, in another word it is you take care of yourself.
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 21:33
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ltzDV-QQm58
Dun say too early yet. Good luck!
blackjack21trader
07-09-13, 22:23
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ltzDV-QQm58
Dun say too early yet. Good luck!
That day will come when u want to upgrade and realise you can never even with increased wealth level . Dun say too early yet. Be humble!
That day will come when u want to upgrade and realise you can never even with increased wealth level . Dun say too early yet. Be humble!
That day is not far away, if not here already...
HDB resale prices are not going to increase like before with the recent changes in HDB policies. It is not so easy to upgrade now.
Developers still bidding high land prices, and the herd still flock to buy indiscriminately.
The govt is not removing the CMs any sooner though SSD seems redundant now. TDSR solve the root cause IMHO, a master stroke from MAS. It is not only a CM for buyers, but for developers too.
puffer_fish
08-09-13, 10:12
CM measures are good... this will protect the entire singapore property market.
And would weed out the weak investors so as to prevent the 害人害己。。。if you dont have strong financial status...then better invest other country least you dont hurt singapore market
if you cant afford to pay down payment of at least 50 or 80 % then better not invest cos 不要害到你家里人
nobrainer32007
08-09-13, 10:48
Good points!
Singapore government should go back to basic (ie public housing is for owner occupation) and not be too ambitious to co-mingle too many other social objectives into its housing policies and consequently created so many loopholes and flip flop in its policies.
Set up a real committee comprising more than a few really good men to objectively and wholistically study the issues and come up with sound and thoughtful long term recommendations to correct (not patch) current situations.
Walk the talk? Why not? When it makes sense and there is no drama.
You need to think deeper before making such comments.
During the earlier years, HDB flat owners could only rent out their spare rooms. If a family wanted to rent the whole apartment, they need to look at private property. Many HDB flat owners then locked up one room and rent out the entire flat anyway to beat the rule.
When there was a shortage of rented properties, the government allowed the renting of whole flat with the Board's approval. To this day, the policy has not been reversed.
Now that there could be an over supply of private properties, diverging the rental of whole flat back to the private market makes a lot of sense. HDB flats thus become a home for own stay. HDB owners can continue to rent out their spare rooms for extra incomes.
This proposed shift in policy will ensure that rental of private properties will not crush.
As long as there is sufficient rental units in the private market and HDB rooms for rental, market forces will ensure that rentals will be competitive. Those can afford to pay a little more can rent rooms in private flats or the entire apartment. Those who are on a smaller budget can rent rooms in HDB flats.
There is nothing new in the suggestion. The writer was simply suggesting that we should go back to where we were since now supply is catching up or even exceeding demand in the coming years.
In future, singaporeans should wake up to their idea that if they want to afford private properties, they must be entrepreneurs, be the boss/businessmen, create wealth and generate jobs, do something that benefits the human race and mankind and thee country etc, and not just do a 9-5 job, and expect to be paid sufficiently well to afford a private, or use their HDB as a springboard to upgrade to a private, civil servants included! :tsk-tsk:
That day will come when u want to upgrade and realise you can never even with increased wealth level . Dun say too early yet. Be humble!
blackjack21trader
08-09-13, 11:30
That day is not far away, if not here already...
HDB resale prices are not going to increase like before with the recent changes in HDB policies. It is not so easy to upgrade now.
Developers still bidding high land prices, and the herd still flock to buy indiscriminately.
The govt is not removing the CMs any sooner though SSD seems redundant now. TDSR solve the root cause IMHO, a master stroke from MAS. It is not only a CM for buyers, but for developers too.
Well said ! Good brother is correct :)
blackjack21trader
08-09-13, 11:31
CM measures are good... this will protect the entire singapore property market.
And would weed out the weak investors so as to prevent the 害人害己。。。if you dont have strong financial status...then better invest other country least you dont hurt singapore market
if you cant afford to pay down payment of at least 50 or 80 % then better not invest cos 不要害到你家里人
Beautiful words, excellent argument !
blackjack21trader
08-09-13, 11:32
In future, singaporeans should wake up to their idea that if they want to afford private properties, they must be entrepreneurs, be the boss/businessmen, create wealth and generate jobs, do something that benefits the human race and mankind and thee country etc, and not just do a 9-5 job, and expect to be paid sufficiently well to afford a private, or use their HDB as a springboard to upgrade to a private, civil servants included! :tsk-tsk:
Brilliant analysis ! What can I say but agree with good brother !
You said this earlier:
Now you said this:
As the Chinese's saying: when a scholar meets a solider, there can be no engagement.
okie we are not engaging. nvm, you are in your world, i am in mind, since we don't connect there is no need to discuss. in my view the suggestion is still stupid in my world, a hard working individual who runs the rat race. Our conversation ends here.
For others whom are interested in a debate and not lecturing .... i am more than happy to engage a meaning discussion, not a choice of words to express your unhappiness to my choice of words on my feeling towards a STUPID suggestion(in my opinoin) that will affect 80% of population's asset and render FT that earns $2000-$3000 no place to stay. The suggestion is that everyone must stay in their HDB and cannot rent out.
Cannot RENT HDB = must rent Private?
PS if wanna teach moral education, school is a better place.
Thats assuming everyone is able to afford a private condo rental. The person write without using his brain.
self quote is boring, but still have to do it. The person write with using his brain, doesnt mean i say he is stupid. But his suggestion is stupid as it lack a deep thinking about the current situation of FT whoms works here.
Published on Sep 04, 2013
THE current policy requiring private property owners to sell their homes if they buy HDB flats affects many retirees who want to downgrade and rent out their residences ("Home ownership rules: HDB replies", Aug 23; and "Minimum occupation period not the issue" by Mrs Chloe Loke, Forum Online, last Wednesday).
In contrast, HDB flat owners, after satisfying the minimum occupation period, can buy private properties and choose to keep their flats. They have the benefit of renting out either their HDB flats or private properties.
With the huge supply of private properties coming on-stream over the next few years to cater to the rental market, perhaps it is timely for the HDB to review its policy of allowing the rental of whole HDB flats.
It should continue to allow an HDB flat owner who buys private property after satisfying the minimum occupation period to retain the flat - but he must continue to live in it.
To ensure fairness, a private property owner who buys an HDB flat must also live in it.
Since both HDB flat owner and private property owner must live in their flats, this will leave them the option of renting out their private properties, ensuring sufficient private homes in the rental market.
http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/forum-letters/story/ensuring-fairness-home-ownership-20130904
1) So Singaporean now MUST STAY WITH A STRANGER in their house?
2) FT earning $2000-$3000 whom used to share renting of whole HDB unit now MUST either rent PRIVATE condo or MUST STAY in with a Singaporean FAMILY.
IF this is not suggesting without thinking and using the brain then is what?
BTW i never say he is stupid
1) So Singaporean now MUST STAY WITH A STRANGER in their house?
2) FT earning $2000-$3000 whom used to share renting of whole HDB unit now MUST either rent PRIVATE condo or MUST STAY in with a Singaporean FAMILY.
IF this is not suggesting without thinking and using the brain then is what?
BTW i never say he is stupid
Point noted.
It's really difficult to come up with a proposal that will please everyone.
Point noted.
It's really difficult to come up with a proposal that will please everyone.
Actually its quiet simple, to build on their existing HDB suggest and serve the needs of the really poor. The govt policies to date is to let everyone have a chance to participate in the growth of the country through the most valuable asset HDB.
I will build a HDB estate in Lim Chu Kang, Cheap cheap HDB house based on build cost only. There is will 0 value in the house cos the house will not appreciate and can only sell back to HDB. There is no design to be spoken of, only take care of most basic needs and transport system will only be bus connecting to CCK which is the nearest MRT.
it will also be BTO, to test the real demand of so call want cheap housing and want a house only. In 1 generation time , survey the children of this housing type to identify if they are better off financially, or they remain trapped in the poor status.
The current housing is expensive to buy, but instantly create a positive asset value. IF the not so well to do family can work and pay the dues this life time, they leave a "headstart" to the next generation, a chance to get out of the vicious cycle of always acquiring debts and not assets. Assets are never cheaps cos they produce values and market forces will always price them correctly.
My observation are that KPKB gen Y will spend their $$$$ on gucci bags, chanel bags while wait in line to take the bus. Dont believe? Just look ard while u are taking MRT and Bus. Buy $7K bag and take MRT. My fear ins that in 3 generations , Singapore no longer around loh. So no need worry future generations have it tough. IF HDB cost 1M then, Singapore should still be good. IF it cost $50k only due to market forces, what good is that?
1) So Singaporean now MUST STAY WITH A STRANGER in their house?
- Very good way of ensuring that foreigners can integrate into Singapore society and with Singaporeans!
2) FT earning $2000-$3000 whom used to share renting of whole HDB unit now MUST either rent PRIVATE condo or MUST STAY in with a Singaporean FAMILY.
- Very good way of ensuring that foreigners can integrate into Singapore society and with Singaporeans!
IF this is not suggesting without thinking and using the brain then is what?
- In the past, this policy has ensured that foreigners can integrate into Singapore society and with Singaporeans! May be it is time for them to bring back the good old policy to solve the problem they are having now where foreigners just form cliche and do not integrate and mix around with Singaporeans in Singapore!
1) So Singaporean now MUST STAY WITH A STRANGER in their house?
2) FT earning $2000-$3000 whom used to share renting of whole HDB unit now MUST either rent PRIVATE condo or MUST STAY in with a Singaporean FAMILY.
IF this is not suggesting without thinking and using the brain then is what?
BTW i never say he is stupid
1) So Singaporean now MUST STAY WITH A STRANGER in their house?
- Very good way of ensuring that foreigners can integrate into Singapore society and with Singaporeans!
2) FT earning $2000-$3000 whom used to share renting of whole HDB unit now MUST either rent PRIVATE condo or MUST STAY in with a Singaporean FAMILY.
- Very good way of ensuring that foreigners can integrate into Singapore society and with Singaporeans!
IF this is not suggesting without thinking and using the brain then is what?
- In the past, this policy has ensured that foreigners can integrate into Singapore society and with Singaporeans! May be it is time for them to bring back the good old policy to solve the problem they are having now where foreigners just form cliche and do not integrate and mix around with Singaporeans in Singapore!
very funny teddy, that is call a hotel.
CM measures are good... this will protect the entire singapore property market.
And would weed out the weak investors so as to prevent the 害人害己。。。if you dont have strong financial status...then better invest other country least you dont hurt singapore market
if you cant afford to pay down payment of at least 50 or 80 % then better not invest cos 不要害到你家里人
Yes, agree with you. CMs are good for the property market. Private property prices must go in tandem with income levels. TDSR is like 良药苦口 (good medicine taste bitter), it not only protects the market, it protects the banks and individuals.
As for public housing, I agree with some of the bros here that it is better to go back to basic - take care of the basic needs of majority Singaporeans and the less well off. It should be affordable and provide a shelter for one to live in, a nest to return after a day's hard work. Don't use public housing as a springboard to go private. If everyone also wants to use HDB to upgrade, I can't imagine one day 80% private 20% public housing?! I even have someone telling me that her vision for the future Singapore is everyone stays in private housing!!! Lol!
Be realistic, be contented, we all have taken a lot of things for granted...
To have a roof over one's head is already a blessing!
blackjack21trader
08-09-13, 19:37
Yes, agree with you. CMs are good for the property market. Private property prices must go in tandem with income levels. TDSR is like 良药苦口 (good medicine taste bitter), it not only protects the market, it protects the banks and individuals.
As for public housing, I agree with some of the bros here that it is better to go back to basic - take care of the basic needs of majority Singaporeans and the less well off. It should be affordable and provide a shelter for one to live in, a nest to return after a day's hard work. Don't use public housing as a springboard to go private. If everyone also wants to use HDB to upgrade, I can't imagine one day 80% private 20% public housing?! I even have someone telling me that her vision for the future Singapore is everyone stays in private housing!!! Lol!
Be realistic, be contented, we all have taken a lot of things for granted...
To have a roof over one's head is already a blessing!
Beautiful language ! Totally agree good brother ;)
http://www.stjobs.sg/career-resources/hr-updates/govt-will-do-its-best-to-help-smes-tackle-labour-crunch/a/133378
Acknowledging that these firms' biggest challenge currently is the lack of manpower, PM Lee reiterated that the Government has slowed the pace but did not stop the inflow. But he warned that not controlling the foreign worker numbers will lead to "serious consequences".
Really dilemma....:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
Where will all this workers stay???? hdb or private or dormitory????
I know where they stay, do you???? What is the impact???? here's the clue... Do your own math.... Hahahaha
http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/passes-visas/work-permit-fw/before-you-apply/Pages/list-of-approved-housing.aspx
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