View Full Version : Owners in the West beware!!
Fact: JG 1 day sold out event.
Logic: JG buyers brain-damaged from industrial pollutants, hence they overpay for JG, thinking it is damn cheap, hence JG is a 1 day sold out event.
Fact: SV is not a 1 day sold out event
Logic: SV buyers are astute buyers, dont want to overpay for SV. hence SV is not a 1 day sold out event.
Hopeful my friend, I thought I pointed out to you very very clearly already : one should not debate on the corollary, one should debate on the theorem. :)
Price does not equal value, therefore it cannot be used as proof, especially when value itself is being contested.
Those are precisely the ones "those doctors very good in theory but Usually cannot operate fast and accurate ok!"!!! :banghead:
Above My personal but valid opinion given that if they spent too much time doing research & teaching, they will have very little hands-on experience in the operating theatre, make sense? . :beats-me-man:
Then you should live next door to NUH, like us. :D You get treated by professor doctors.
Agree. Jurong will always be Jurong, prices will always be below Redhill and Queenstown.
This thread is really a lame attempt.
If Jurong is $1,800, anything at $1,800 between Jurong and Orchard, quickly grab!!!
DKSG
Is Bishan between Jurong and Orchard? How come its not sold out?
Beware
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9284/rlcn.jpg
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1788/2qjg.jpg
Regulators
30-09-13, 22:24
Largest commercial hub outside city centre so it is not the largest in sg lor, which means it makes more sense to buy near the largest commercial hub which is the city centre if prices are cheaper than jgateway pricing. Bishan not sold out due to tdsr u don't know meh. Don't forget jgateway buyers must also be banging their heads now for missing out on a gd buy in a better location :D
Beware
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9284/rlcn.jpg
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1788/2qjg.jpg
And then you get operated on by a trainee doctor will little operating table experience? :banghead:
What is your chance of full recovery? May be you won't die, but you coma or paralysed all your life thereafter, worst than DEATH! :scared-1:
When you get a stroke, the case that teddy was talking about, you don't get a ticket. You got straight into surgery.
And then you get operated on by a trainee doctor will little operating table experience? :banghead:
What is your chance of full recovery? May be you won't die, but you coma or paralysed all your life thereafter, worst than DEATH! :scared-1:
So, which hospital you go to is very very important! You don't live in Singapore, so you don't know right? :p
thank you. i think it is faster for an emergency case for JG residents to go to NTF hospital than for SV residents to go to Mt Alvernia? Novena?
"every minute later than 10 mins that you arrive at the hospital after your stroke, you chance of recovery reduces by a certain percentage?".
Yah, precisely that they will settle in JLD, which is a few km away from Jurong Island, just nice distance, hit sweet spot to descend there! :eek:
isnt that what i say:)
Jurong Island is the safest since the chimney is so tall. the exhaust (and particulates) settle in singapore mainland.
the coarser particles would be trapped by the filters. it is only the smaller particulate that gets blown off in the chimneys. and since they are so fine, they wont settle down quickly from the chimneys.
Ai yoh, don't you know, stalingrad = ringo33 and are supporting you? :sleep:
what happened to ringo33 ?
it looks l become the solo JLD / JG defender already :)
Is Bishan between Jurong and Orchard? How come its not sold out?
Because of much better pricing strategy from developer's viewpoint.
Forum readers should acquaint themselves with such pricing strategies used by developers.
Decent developers seldom allow themselves to "SOLD OUT within 1 day". The only few reasons are : pricing is way too high, so when really can con so many people to buy at ridiculously high price, eg $1,6xx for Jurong, they quickly let go everything for fear that the truth will descend in a short while
Confident developers, will do what CapLand is doing, keep some of the best units and price it at a real high premium. I reckon that CapLand will keep a handful of units in the last few floors and jack up the price.
Even if later cannot sell, they can still mark it down or use much better materials like marble to differentiate their product within the same development.
Product differentiation within the same development is also a relatively new trend.
DKSG
Ai yoh, don't you know, stalingrad = ringo33 and are supporting you? :sleep:
Hopeful doesnt know that his so-called friend is not supporting him. Just supporting the unit he bought.
Though he give impression that he is supporting the entire Jurong development.
DKSG
Is Bishan between Jurong and Orchard? How come its not sold out?
Between ALL the PCs in Jurong, how come the prices are not catching up ?
When investors find out that they bought at a super high peak price compared to PCs around, they better keep close watch of the prices of other PCs within the vicinity.
If the prices catch up and surpass their buying price, then they are saved!
Otherwise, if prices of surrounding PCs are struggling to reach the new PC price, have to BE BEWARE!
DKSG
in which location, the new PC pricing is lower than the old ones surrounding? If new PCs are selling lower than the old ones, then who will buy the old one, you?? :rolleyes: please also compare apple to apple...
now some of you guys are arguing for the sake of arguing....:tsk-tsk: in this way, this forum will be ruined by you guys....
Between ALL the PCs in Jurong, how come the prices are not catching up ?
When investors find out that they bought at a super high peak price compared to PCs around, they better keep close watch of the prices of other PCs within the vicinity.
If the prices catch up and surpass their buying price, then they are saved!
Otherwise, if prices of surrounding PCs are struggling to reach the new PC price, have to BE BEWARE!
DKSG
Because of much better pricing strategy from developer's viewpoint.
Forum readers should acquaint themselves with such pricing strategies used by developers.
Decent developers seldom allow themselves to "SOLD OUT within 1 day". The only few reasons are : pricing is way too high, so when really can con so many people to buy at ridiculously high price, eg $1,6xx for Jurong, they quickly let go everything for fear that the truth will descend in a short while
Confident developers, will do what CapLand is doing, keep some of the best units and price it at a real high premium. I reckon that CapLand will keep a handful of units in the last few floors and jack up the price.
Even if later cannot sell, they can still mark it down or use much better materials like marble to differentiate their product within the same development.
Product differentiation within the same development is also a relatively new trend.
DKSG
Please stop sprouting nonsense here. For this SV site, Capitaland was forced to make a very high bid because they needed to protect their interest in SH.
And this is FACTS to back up what I am saying.
http://www.novelty.com.sg/flash/TheBusinessTimes-25Feb.pdf
If Keppeland, the 2nd bidder have won this site, this project could be selling at $200psf cheaper. And that is the kind of valuation other developers are putting on the Bishan site.
As for all your flowery stories about how smart is Capitaland, it was already reported that Capitaland is lowering their margin for SV to move. And again this is FACTS to back up what I am saying
http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/capitalands-sky-vue-condo-rake-011200854.html
So please stop give us all that fairytale stories about how smart is capitaland. If they are smart, they would have build MM long ago.
Again, like EBD said, ALL FACT NO SHIT.
Between ALL the PCs in Jurong, how come the prices are not catching up ?
When investors find out that they bought at a super high peak price compared to PCs around, they better keep close watch of the prices of other PCs within the vicinity.
If the prices catch up and surpass their buying price, then they are saved!
Otherwise, if prices of surrounding PCs are struggling to reach the new PC price, have to BE BEWARE!
DKSG
Is the PC price in D22 not rising as a result of J Gateway? The last I check all projects around D22 are rising and now there is event a tug of wall between buyer and seller because sellers are raising their selling price due to the positive impact from JLD development.
So if you think otherwise, you could also dig deep and come out with some facts to challenge what I said. Yes, I said facts as I am not interested to listen to all your grandmother tale or about what stupid poll you are doing in your office.
Beware indeed, with the amount of nonsense you are posting, you are indeed losing a lot of your credibility very quickly. I am sure your sifu must be very disheartened to see you going down this route.
Hopeful doesnt know that his so-called friend is not supporting him. Just supporting the unit he bought.
Though he give impression that he is supporting the entire Jurong development.
DKSG
A man with substance and knowledge stand on his on 2 feet, why does he need buddy buddy to fan each other ego?
And what kind of childish support friend no friend you are talking about?
Grow up leh. You are making me feel like I am back in primary school.
proud owner
01-10-13, 01:01
It was not during the haze period. It is always wise not to stay facing major roads and worst is infront of bus-stop or or near bus terminals. One either stay low-rise (ie landed) in a estate or stay highrise not facing majors roads or expresssways. Noise and air pollution can be a real problem.
in a few month's time, fellow Interlace residents will be able to confirm if their units get 'sooty' ...
in a few month's time, fellow Interlace residents will be able to confirm if their units get 'sooty' ...
Bro, reflection is near to bukom leh....
Is the PC price in D22 not rising as a result of J Gateway? The last I check all projects around D22 are rising and now there is event a tug of wall between buyer and seller because sellers are raising their selling price due to the positive impact from JLD development.
are you absolutely sure that there is a direct correlation between the 2? without J Gateway, D22 PC price never rose between 2009-2012???
this is exactly the kind of claims that you slap yourself with
are you absolutely sure that there is a direct correlation between the 2? without J Gateway, D22 PC price never rose between 2009-2012???
JLD masterplan was announced in 2008 and judging the overwhelming response of new launches and intensive land bidding, you dont need to be Ringo33 to know what is the underlying season.
So are you saying that gospel might not be true? But then why do you still believe in gospel? peer pressure?
this is exactly the kind of claims that you slap yourself with
Did the gospel teaches your to speak and behave like this?
You are really giving your religion a very bad name. shame shame...
shareidiot
01-10-13, 08:35
Dear Mr Ringo33,
Sincerely request you to be wiser with your words (eg: pertaining to "Gospel" &/or "giving your religion a bad name", et cetera).
This is a condo forum, which therefore i reckon all forumners should stay focus on condo related topics/discussion. We can have different opinon, but should stay focus in topic (in this forum).
Kindly leave the Gospel & Jehovah aside.
Whether JLD will turn to a gold mine (for u or any other investors) or not, time will tell.
Shalom ! :)
Did the gospel teaches your to speak and behave like this?
You are really giving your religion a very bad name. shame shame...
Did the gospel teaches your to speak and behave like this?
You are really giving your religion a very bad name. shame shame...
well, i forgot that i shouldn't throw pearls to swine - better not point about your mistakes so that you can continually be a fool for folly's worth
JLD masterplan was announced in 2008 and judging the overwhelming response of new launches and intensive land bidding, you dont need to be Ringo33 to know what is the underlying season.
So are you saying that gospel might not be true? But then why do you still believe in gospel? peer pressure?
please!! property prices in RCR and OCR, all over the island, have risen since 2009 till now.
show us the direct correlation, or else i can also claim the emergence of mas selamat caused the Arab Spring
Dear Mr Ringo33,
Sincerely request you to be wiser with your words (eg: pertaining to "Gospel" &/or "giving your religion a bad name", et cetera).
This is a condo forum, which therefore i reckon all forumners should stay focus on condo related topics/discussion. We can have different opinon, but should stay focus in topic (in this forum).
Kindly leave the Gospel & Jehovah aside.
Whether JLD will turn to a gold mine (for u or any other investors) or not, time will tell.
Shalom ! :)
Actually you should be directing this post to eng81157 as he claims in the other thread that gospel MIGHT be true.
I will just leave it to you and eng81157 to trash it out if gospel is true or not.
shareidiot
01-10-13, 08:54
All forumners should refrain from such discussion in a condo forum. Let us stay focused. :)
Actually you should be directing this post to eng81157 as he claims in the other thread that gospel MIGHT be true.
I will just leave it to you and eng81157 to trash it out if gospel is true or not.
please!! property prices in RCR and OCR, all over the island, have risen since 2009 till now.
show us the direct correlation, or else i can also claim the emergence of mas selamat caused the Arab Spring
A rise by $1psf is also consider as risen. Is that what you are barking at?
Arab spring is not driven by jihad or religion or act against the west, it is driven by their country corruption and rising income gap. So please go read up before accusing Islam as violence.
All forumners should refrain from such discussion in a condo forum. Let us stay focused. :)
I agree, they should leave gospel out of the forum. I think the worst one I have read recently was when Regulators accusing Quran of copying Bible.
Obviously he doesnt know where is his boundary
shareidiot
01-10-13, 09:02
Please leave Gospel, Bible, Quaran & religion out of this forum. Let us stay focused...
I agree, they should leave gospel out of the forum. I think the worst one I have read recently was when Regulators accusing Quran of copying Bible.
Obviously he doesnt know where is his boundary
A rise by $1psf is also consider as risen. Is that what you are barking at?
Arab spring is not driven by jihad or religion or act against the west, it is driven by their country corruption and rising income gap. So please go read up before accusing Islam as violence.
eh kam gong, where did i accuse islam of promoting violence? it's an analogy to show that there is no or weak correlation
please continue to show your inept ability to process logic and read
Many...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/q71/s720x720/1376517_10151698122047568_1182574742_n.jpg
anomalies here.
1) bishan old condo price only slightly higher than geylang old condo?
2) bukit merah old condo slightly higher than marine parade old condo?
eh kam gong, where did i accuse islam of promoting violence? it's an analogy to show that there is no or weak correlation
please continue to show your inept ability to process logic and read
MAS SELAMAT = TERRORIST?
if you are going to say that Arab Spring is caused by Mas Selamat, that mean you are saying that Arab Spring is motivated by terrorist. And who are the people behind Arab Spring?
Think before you say and please keep religion discussion out of this forum
anomalies here.
1) bishan old condo price only slightly higher than geylang old condo?
2) bukit merah old condo slightly higher than marine parade old condo?
Any Data for Jurong in regards to Table 2 ?
Thanks
MAS SELAMAT = TERRORIST?
if you are going to say that Arab Spring is caused by Mas Selamat, that mean you are saying that Arab Spring is motivated by terrorist. And who are the people behind Arab Spring?
Think before you say and please keep religion discussion out of this forum
eh kam gong, read my previous post. it's an analogy to show there is no or weak correlation - just like how you associate a 2008 masterplan and rising prices in jurong.
i have to apologize that i overestimated your comprehension abilities. will try to remember that we have to abase ourselves to your level
Regulators
01-10-13, 12:02
You are talking to an idiot with a one track mind. For a person that use difference in developer selling price for same project to compare with increase in transaction price of resale condo, u can't expect much from his brain. The truth is everyone else's property seeing an increase in value except his jgateway. He better pray hard resale continue to surge in price otherwise he can forget about cap gain for his tiny dog box
eh kam gong, where did i accuse islam of promoting violence? it's an analogy to show that there is no or weak correlation
please continue to show your inept ability to process logic and read
You are talking to an idiot with a one track mind. For a person that use difference in developer selling price for same project to compare with increase in transaction price of resale condo, u can't expect much from his brain. The truth is everyone else's property seeing an increase in value except his jgateway. He better pray hard resale continue to surge in price otherwise he can forget about cap gain for his tiny dog box
mai luan luan gong ... jgateway is very promising wor .... chao chao $2000psf upon top.
we all ccr/rcr owners better repent now, cos ours will oni fetch $1500psf upon top *sob*
Regulators
01-10-13, 12:18
Correction....that kum gong relying on caspian n centris chart so his projected selling price should be $3000psf at least n ccr remain $1500psf. :D
mai luan luan gong ... jgateway is very promising wor .... chao chao $2000psf upon top.
we all ccr/rcr owners better repent now, cos ours will oni fetch $1500psf upon top *sob*
Correction....that kum gong relying on caspian n centris chart so his projected selling price should be $3000psf at least n ccr remain $1500psf. :D
$3000psf is a conservative estimate liao. tia gong the uncles in hougang chalet (tat mass condo u noe?) prophesised tat when the west dragon descend, will hit $5000psf. jitao upgraded fm mass to luxury condo! :eek:
Im so ooo regret nvr buy J gateway :doh:
$3000psf is a conservative estimate liao. tia gong the uncles in hougang chalet (tat mass condo u noe?) prophesised tat when the west dragon descend, will hit $5000psf. jitao upgraded fm mass to luxury condo! :eek:
Im so ooo regret nvr buy J gateway :doh:
and istana will move to JLD too
and istana will move to JLD too
I foresee JLD will build an Oxley Road too :D
Regulators
01-10-13, 12:30
Who knows, that guy could be petitioning liao :D
and istana will move to JLD too
Autumnwinds
01-10-13, 12:36
Lai lai, west dragon Jem opening tomorrow. I'm selling safety helmets at jurong east mrt. please do come and patronise my store!:rolleyes:
I foresee JLD will build an Oxley Road too :D
and chinese garden will be submitted for UNESCO heritage certification! pfft, what's botanic gardens compared to the grandeur of the pagoda!!
Allthepies
01-10-13, 12:58
seems to me to the superior folks from the North and East, the whole western region very yucky with bad quality air,dirty people, dirty streets, poor people..
wonder why people have become so snobbish...:doh::doh:
seems to me to the superior folks from the North and East, the whole western region very yucky with bad quality air,dirty people, dirty streets, poor people..
wonder why people have become so snobbish...:doh::doh:
i don't think anyone of us perpetuated the idea that the west has dirty and poor people or streets, though the air is definitely bad.
please be careful when making baseless sweeping statements as such
and chinese garden will be submitted for UNESCO heritage certification! pfft, what's botanic gardens compared to the grandeur of the pagoda!!
hmmm ... tink merlion & spore flyer has to be shifted to Jurong too, since JLD has become the iconic district in sg :47:
seems to me to the superior folks from the North and East, the whole western region very yucky with bad quality air,dirty people, dirty streets, poor people..
wonder why people have become so snobbish...:doh::doh:
It all started when the Jurong PC buyer (just one of them) is unhappy that the Jurong MM is priced at the same or slightly higher than the Bishan MM and Thomson MM. Then refused to accept that Bishan/Thomson is of a better location and valuation than Jurong.
I dont think most of the people here think lowly of Jurong. They just think that Bishan/Thomson is of a more superior location. And lamenting that Jurong buyers paid the same price as the Bishan/Thomson now.
Jurong and Bishan/Thomson same price, what are your thoughts ?
DKSG
why dont you just put up a poll to confirm your belief??? >> From a Investor perception, whether Bishan/Thomson is more superior than JLD?
It is all very subjective. Seems like you are also one of those stubborn one who dedicated to waste your energy in such thread...it only go on to show ones maturity and openness...:2cents:
It all started when the Jurong PC buyer (just one of them) is unhappy that the Jurong MM is priced at the same or slightly higher than the Bishan MM and Thomson MM. Then refused to accept that Bishan/Thomson is of a better location and valuation than Jurong.
I dont think most of the people here think lowly of Jurong. They just think that Bishan/Thomson is of a more superior location. And lamenting that Jurong buyers paid the same price as the Bishan/Thomson now.
Jurong and Bishan/Thomson same price, what are your thoughts ?
DKSG
why dont you just put up a poll to confirm your belief??? >> From a Investor perception, whether Bishan/Thomson is more superior than JLD?
It is all very subjective. Seems like you are also one of those stubborn one who dedicated to waste your energy in such thread...it only go on to show ones maturity and openness...:2cents:
Why not you start the poll ?
Bishan and Thomson and Jurong = Same Price --> which would readers choose to buy ?
For me, I ask around my office of investors and nearly all say Bishan or Thomson.
DKSG
Why not you start the poll ?
Bishan and Thomson and Jurong = Same Price --> which would readers choose to buy ?
For me, I ask around my office of investors and nearly all say Bishan or Thomson.
DKSG
Why waste time polling people who know talk only no action why not just use actual transaction record to determine which project is more attractive to investors.
Why not you start the poll ?
Bishan and Thomson and Jurong = Same Price --> which would readers choose to buy ?
For me, I ask around my office of investors and nearly all say Bishan or Thomson.
DKSG
the one person who chose to buy Jurong is the one who lives in Bishan?
just pulling ur leg.:)
hmmm ... tink merlion & spore flyer has to be shifted to Jurong too, since JLD has become the iconic district in sg :47:
swee lah! get rid of that eye sore of a merlion.
previously I hv done a poll. Results in this thread:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=18452
seems to me to the superior folks from the North and East, the whole western region very yucky with bad quality air,dirty people, dirty streets, poor people..
wonder why people have become so snobbish...:doh::doh:
Hi Allthepies
felt the same way too
wondering why so many here to condemn us People staying in Jurong
I just cant understand and many are very arrogant too
Hi Allthepies
felt the same way too
wondering why so many here to condemn us People staying in Jurong
I just cant understand and many are very arrogant too
u are blue collar workers.
sniff..sniff..sniff..and you stink too. cover my nose.
u are blue collar workers.
sniff..sniff..sniff..and you stink too. cover my nose.
Hi hopeful
anyway did a search through the caveat lodged on new and old
Jurong condo
Price still very healthy
Hi Allthepies
felt the same way too
wondering why so many here to condemn us People staying in Jurong
I just cant understand and many are very arrogant too
I dun tink many here came to condemn residents of Jurong
neither r ppl here to bash J gateway.
most ppl r here to challenge R33 for the many unrealistic visions he claimed for JLD.
I dun tink many here came to condemn residents of Jurong
neither r ppl here to bash J gateway.
most ppl r here to challenge R33 for the many unrealistic visions he claimed for JLD.
Hi mermaid
can see that they are "after" ringo33
in their enthusiasm to bash Ringo
many things were said about the Jurong Residents :doh:and those who bought J Gateway
I dun tink many here came to condemn residents of Jurong
neither r ppl here to bash J gateway.
most ppl r here to challenge R33 for the many unrealistic visions he claimed for JLD.
people here to bash the stupid buyers of JG at 17xx 'cos they upsets the natural order of things.
u blue collar worker should know your place, dont try to upstage your betters in Bishan okay.
if you buy JG at 1200, then it is only natural, cos jurong price lower than bishan price.
but now JG 1700xx, who the fxxk do you think u blue collar workers r? Hence ur betters at Bishan are upset.
I dun tink many here came to condemn residents of Jurong
neither r ppl here to bash J gateway.
most ppl r here to challenge R33 for the many unrealistic visions he claimed for JLD.
Can I ask which part is unrealistic????
It is true the govt pumping money into Jurong
It is true Jurong will be the next biggest place out of CBD
It is true they will have a hotel...
It is true there is a story
See what happened to Marina area
See what happened to Sentosa
The vision of Punggol 21 was disrupted by Asian crisis... Isnt it back on track???
The next area is in the north...
So anyone going in????
http://www.ura.gov.sg/woodlands/
Check this out...
http://www.ida.gov.sg/Collaboration-and-Initiatives/Collaboration-Opportunities/Store/Smart-and-Connected-Jurong-Lake-District-Pilots-and-Trials-CFC
Hi mermaid
can see that they are "after" ringo33
in their enthusiasm to bash Ringo
many things were said about the Jurong Residents :doh:and those who bought J Gateway
I dun follow tis thread closely in the past so Im not sure abt things tat were criticised abt Jurong Residents.
like I mentioned earlier, I have nothing agst J gateway.
I merely feel tat J gateway is overpriced as compared to many projects. If J gateway is cheap I will consider too :D
I dun share the rationale of the buyers but tat doesn't mean tat ppl shd not buy J gateway. Everyone has a perceived value of a project. BUT, Im kinda pissed off by R33's bad attitude to many forummers when they contested him on his disillusional beliefs.
But I hv to admit tat ppl who r fed up wif R33 r not nice in the attitudes as well -_-
people here to bash the stupid buyers of JG at 17xx 'cos they upsets the natural order of things.
u blue collar worker should know your place, dont try to upstage your betters in Bishan okay.
if you buy JG at 1200, then it is only natural, cos jurong price lower than bishan price.
but now JG 1700xx, who the fxxk do you think u blue collar workers r? Hence ur betters at Bishan are upset.
Hi hopeful
there is nothing wrong being a blue collar worker
after all he is making a honest living and if he can afford to buy a condo at S$1700psf in Jurong, so be it
btw : I am not a blue collar worker
people here to bash the stupid buyers of JG at 17xx 'cos they upsets the natural order of things.
well, if u ask me is J Gateway overpriced, I feel yes.
will I buy, my answer is no.
will I rather J gateway to be priced lower, my answer is oso no :D
Hi hopeful
there is nothing wrong being a blue collar worker
after all he is making a honest living and if he can afford to buy a condo at S$1700psf in Jurong, so be it
btw : I am not a blue collar worker
I dun understand the nid to bring in blue collar worker!
one is totally missing the point! :doh:
Can I ask which part is unrealistic????
It is true the govt pumping money into Jurong
It is true Jurong will be the next biggest place out of CBD
It is true they will have a hotel...
It is true there is a story
See what happened to Marina area
See what happened to Sentosa
The vision of Punggol 21 was disrupted by Asian crisis... Isnt it back on track???
The next area is in the north...
So anyone going in????
http://www.ura.gov.sg/woodlands/
Check this out...
http://www.ida.gov.sg/Collaboration-and-Initiatives/Collaboration-Opportunities/Store/Smart-and-Connected-Jurong-Lake-District-Pilots-and-Trials-CFC
so u r implying tat J gateway will command the best capital appreciation & highest rental yield in the future?
P/S: I hv nvr deny the facts. It is more of the false selling tat R33 is trying to promote.
so u r implying tat J gateway will command the best capital appreciation & highest rental yield in the future?
Did anyone say that????? No rite????
Is marina residences getting the best capital appreciation and highest yield??? Is Sentosa likewise???
seems to me to the superior folks from the North and East, the whole western region very yucky with bad quality air,dirty people, dirty streets, poor people..
wonder why people have become so snobbish...:doh::doh:
hahaha....bro allthepies, it is natural for people to stereotype others who are not from their own region or of their own kind. My ang mo boss told me a story about how the folks in his hometown dislike the fellas from the capital city. So each time his hometown team whip the capital city boys in a football match, there would be wild celebrations on the streets in his hometown (as though they won a cup final !!!) LOL....
My family and I lived on the west side of Singapore almost all our lives and all of us have turned out fine :)
Did anyone say that????? No rite????
Go n read up all R33's posts.
U can easily spot them, be it explicitly or implicitly.
people here to bash the stupid buyers of JG at 17xx 'cos they upsets the natural order of things.
u blue collar worker should know your place, dont try to upstage your betters in Bishan okay.
if you buy JG at 1200, then it is only natural, cos jurong price lower than bishan price.
but now JG 1700xx, who the fxxk do you think u blue collar workers r? Hence ur betters at Bishan are upset.
hahahaha...funny !!
hahaha....bro allthepies, it is natural for people to stereotype others who are not from their own region or of their own kind. My ang mo boss told me a story about how the folks in his hometown dislike the fellas from the capital city. So each time his hometown team whip the capital city boys in a football match, there would be wild celebrations on the streets in his hometown (as though they won a cup final !!!) LOL....
My family and I lived on the west side of Singapore almost all our lives and all of us have turned out fine :)
hey, no forummer has demeaned residents in jurong, except those who perpetuated the idea themselves - i.e. self-fulfilling condemnation.
I dun follow tis thread closely in the past so Im not sure abt things tat were criticised abt Jurong Residents.
like I mentioned earlier, I have nothing agst J gateway.
I merely feel tat J gateway is overpriced as compared to many projects. If J gateway is cheap I will consider too :D
I dun share the rationale of the buyers but tat doesn't mean tat ppl shd not buy J gateway. Everyone has a perceived value of a project. BUT, Im kinda pissed off by R33's bad attitude to many forummers when they contested him on his disillusional beliefs.
But I hv to admit tat ppl who r fed up wif R33 r not nice in the attitudes as well -_-
Hi mermaid
personally I also "felt" J Gateway were being priced a bit on the high side
and probably all the future growth and development had already been factored into the pricing
But is not investment a risk we have to take ?
So whether It turn out to be overwhelming or a failure, only time will tell
Go n read up all R33's posts.
U can easily spot them, be it explicitly or implicitly.
But you must understand that people bring up about the superiority of Bishan vs jurong.... He just point out info and Jurong and people bash him...
If this people keep doing this, people like Ringo who put info out may in the future not put this info out...
Must give people space rite....
Unless he spout nonsense... Than I have nothing to say....
Hi hopeful
there is nothing wrong being a blue collar worker
after all he is making a honest living and if he can afford to buy a condo at S$1700psf in Jurong, so be it
btw : I am not a blue collar worker
let me give u an example.
the manager drive a old mercedes.
one day, he hire a young chap, didnt know that the chap is rich.
so when the young chap drives a ferrari and park his car next to the manager, what would the manager feel? what would the rest of the colleagues feel?
the new chap has upset the natural order of things. if the new chap drive only a toyota, everything would be in harmony.
indeed there is nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker. just dont try to buy JG at 1700psf.
if the blue collar worker can afford a condo at 1700psf, dont buy it in Jurong, buy elsewhere, preferably bishan.
perhaps many of you would have observed where a young colleague try to upstage his superiors. and how they would whacked him to earth.
I dun understand the nid to bring in blue collar worker!
one is totally missing the point! :doh:
Hi mermaid
Its not me la who brought up Blue worker issue la :doh:
I am just replying to hopeful's post
But you must understand that people bring up about the superiority of Bishan vs jurong.... He just point out info and Jurong and people bash him...
If this people keep doing this, people like Ringo who put info out may in the future not put this info out...
Must give people space rite....
Unless he spout nonsense... Than I have nothing to say....
u mean he didn't spout nonsense when he talked about reclamations of coastlines, as if it is a foregone conclusion and refused to accept views that it may not happen.
u mean he didn't spout nonsense when he claimed that J gateway can easily achieve 5% rental yield
u mean he didn't spout nonsense when he had an entire thread dedicated to the 3rd IR being located in jurong
wow, if these aren't nonsense, i don't know what is
Hi mermaid
personally I also "felt" J Gateway were being priced a bit on the high side
and probably all the future growth and development had already been factored into the pricing
But is not investment a risk we have to take ?
So whether It turn out to be overwhelming or a failure, only time will tell
totally agree, it is an investment risk if one chose to buy a project which is on the high side.
but I supposed most ppl r fed up with R33's trolling when ppl corrected him tat he had paid for something expensive.
let me give u an example.
the manager drive a old mercedes.
one day, he hire a young chap, didnt know that the chap is rich.
so when the young chap drives a ferrari and park his car next to the manager, what would the manager feel? what would the rest of the colleagues feel?
the new chap has upset the natural order of things. if the new chap drive only a toyota, everything would be in harmony.
indeed there is nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker. just dont try to buy JG at 1700psf.
if the blue collar worker can afford a condo at 1700psf, dont buy it in Jurong, buy elsewhere, preferably bishan.
Hi hopeful
got your point
but how certain and sure that the unit was bought by a blue collar worker and that his Boss stays in a less prestigious resident ?
well, if u ask me is J Gateway overpriced, I feel yes.
will I buy, my answer is no.
will I rather J gateway to be priced lower, my answer is oso no :D
Based on what I have seen on squarefoot research, the average prices achieved for J Gateway is about the same as eCo, urban vista, midtown residences and hillion residences. It is lower than seahill, a 99LH project with no mrt station within 10 mins walking distance. Even foresque residences, also a project not near to any mrt station, is not very far behind from J Gateway in terms of average prices achieved.
I think it is safe to say that the prices achieved for J Gateway are not an anomaly relative to other new launches. It is our own perceptions that is telling us whether J Gateway is over priced.
u mean he didn't spout nonsense when he talked about reclamations of coastlines, as if it is a foregone conclusion and refused to accept views that it may not happen.
u mean he didn't spout nonsense when he claimed that J gateway can easily achieve 5% rental yield
u mean he didn't spout nonsense when he had an entire thread dedicated to the 3rd IR being located in jurong
wow, if these aren't nonsense, i don't know what is
Bro, for reclaimation of east coast, it is in the master plan. When or if it happens, no one knows rite.
As for 5%, it is his prediction. Rite???
For 3rd ir, sorry I did not follow that thread.
I hope I do not sound like lecturing or arguing...
If i do, it is because words are difficult for me to express in writing...
No offence please... :)
let me give u an example.
the manager drive a old mercedes.
one day, he hire a young chap, didnt know that the chap is rich.
so when the young chap drives a ferrari and park his car next to the manager, what would the manager feel? what would the rest of the colleagues feel?
the new chap has upset the natural order of things. if the new chap drive only a toyota, everything would be in harmony.
indeed there is nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker. just dont try to buy JG at 1700psf.
if the blue collar worker can afford a condo at 1700psf, dont buy it in Jurong, buy elsewhere, preferably bishan.
i think this example is strange and the harmony theory is strange. The mention of blue collar worker is equally crazy. So, a very rich blue collar worker cannot buy a condo at 1700psf and he cannot buy in jurong? What harmony? This is his own money!
hey, no forummer has demeaned residents in jurong, except those who perpetuated the idea themselves - i.e. self-fulfilling condemnation.
hahaha...from the way how it is written by some of the forumers, you can't deny that some of us will go away with that impression.
Bro, for reclaimation of east coast, it is in the master plan. When or if it happens, no one knows rite.
As for 5%, it is his prediction. Rite???
For 3rd ir, sorry I did not follow that thread.
I hope I do not sound like lecturing or arguing...
If i do, it is because words are difficult for me to express in writing...
No offence please... :)
read my statements carefully, the reasons are already stated
i think this example is strange and the harmony theory is strange. The mention of blue collar worker is equally crazy. So, a very rich blue collar worker cannot buy a condo at 1700 sqft and he cannot buy in jurong? What harmony? This is his own money!
Hi elmo
I don't find it strange
There are such bosses
On the contrary If I am that Manager or boss, I will be very Proud that my worker or subordinate can drive a Ferrari or stay in a Better Condo than me
But you must understand that people bring up about the superiority of Bishan vs jurong.... He just point out info and Jurong and people bash him...
If this people keep doing this, people like Ringo who put info out may in the future not put this info out...
Must give people space rite....
Unless he spout nonsense... Than I have nothing to say....
if he did not spout nonsense, where was he the only one been targeted? :D
dun u find it weird tat a person can be targeted by many in most of the threads he appeared?
.......
u mean he didn't spout nonsense when he claimed that J gateway can easily achieve 5% rental yield
......
wow, if these aren't nonsense, i don't know what is
why do say it is nonsense?
well, if 1700psf, 5% rental yield = 85psf or 7.08psf /month.
474sf x 7.08 = 3300pm required.
if only 1600psf, 5% rental yield = 80psf or 6.67psf/month.
474sf x 6.67 = 3100pm required.
would people pay that in the west?
well one-north people paying 3500 for 500-600sf units.
nonsense or not?
Based on what I have seen on squarefoot research, the average prices achieved for J Gateway is about the same as eCo, urban vista, midtown residences and hillion residences. It is lower than seahill, a 99LH project with no mrt station within 10 mins walking distance. Even foresque residences, also a project not near to any mrt station, is not very far behind from J Gateway in terms of average prices achieved.
I think it is safe to say that the prices achieved for J Gateway are not an anomaly relative to other new launches. It is our own perceptions that is telling us whether J Gateway is over priced.
so do u feel tat J gateway will yield one of the highest rental rate in Singapore?
and offer rental promises like the below? :D
Dont need to worry about rental yield for J Gateway, it will be one of the highest in Singapore when it TOP in 2016/7.
conservatively, I would say 4-5%
if he did not spout nonsense, where was he the only one been targeted? :D
dun u find it weird tat a person can be targeted by many in most of the threads he appeared?
"no prophet is accepted in his own hometown" comes to mind :).
why do say it is nonsense?
well, if 1700psf, 5% rental yield = 85psf or 7.08psf /month.
474sf x 7.08 = 3300pm required.
if only 1600psf, 5% rental yield = 80psf or 6.67psf/month.
474sf x 6.67 = 3100pm required.
would people pay that in the west?
well one-north people paying 3500 for 500-600sf units.
nonsense or not?
Aiyo, bro hopeful, why did you let the cat out of the bag on one-north residences :D
so do u feel tat J gateway will yield one of the highest rental rate in Singapore?
and offer rental promises like the below? :D
See response from bro hopeful :D
why do say it is nonsense?
well, if 1700psf, 5% rental yield = 85psf or 7.08psf /month.
474sf x 7.08 = 3300pm required.
if only 1600psf, 5% rental yield = 80psf or 6.67psf/month.
474sf x 6.67 = 3100pm required.
would people pay that in the west?
well one-north people paying 3500 for 500-600sf units.
nonsense or not?
omg! how can the rental yield for Jurong be compared to one-north! :doh:
it is liken telling a person tat if he vests in Pasir Ris, he can aim to achieve the same rental yield as Tanah Merah!
proud owner
01-10-13, 17:10
In terms of valuation. No individual liking.
And also in general. Just because a handful people like refinery fumes or cemeteries, doesnt mean the valuation of these are higher. Agree ?
Orchard valuation is always higher than River Valley. But a handful of people may prefer to stay in River Valley than Orchard. But if they offer them similar investment units in these 2 locations at the same price, they will pick up the Orchard unit. Agree ?
DKSG
bro ... how exactly is valuation done ?
it seems that I get valuation over the phone ... no one ever goes to a location to assess it ... and very much based on the last transacted price ...
so if some one pays 1000 psf ... the valuation will seem to use 1000 as a base ...
omg! how can the rental yield for Jurong be compared to one-north! :doh:
it is liken telling a person tat if he vests in Pasir Ris, he can aim to achieve the same rental yield as Tanah Merah!
If I understand correctly, prices of pasir ris properties are generally lower than Tanah Merah. So if a lower rental rate is achieved, the yield might be the same as Tanah Merah. Not possible?
omg! how can the rental yield for Jurong be compared to one-north! :doh:
it is liken telling a person tat if he vests in Pasir Ris, he can aim to achieve the same rental yield as Tanah Merah!
last time can make money because information not so transparent. now with squarefoot, all data at fingertips, harder to take advantage of the ignorant folks.
boy am i glad even after the showing the data, there are people who still refused to believe. it means that even with squarefoot around, still can make money.
woohoo, the phrase "have eyes but cannot see" comes to mind.
Hi elmo
I don't find it strange
There are such bosses
On the contrary If I am that Manager or boss, I will be very Proud that my worker or subordinate can drive a Ferrari or stay in a Better Condo than me
errr....correct you a bit can?
i will be very proud that my ex-worker or ex-subordinate can drive a Ferrari or stay in a better condo than me.
even better if his parents are the one that get him a Ferrari or a better condo and not by his own achievements.
because if a young chap achieve all this on his efforts, what would that make me an older chap? a useless nincomcoop, that's what. so it is only natural for an elder person to put a younger person in his place.
many people here would have personally observed that young upstarts are usually knocked down by their superiors. Perhaps they have experienced it themselves too whereby they try to suggest a good idea, pooh-poohed by their superiors in public, sometime later , the superiors implement their ideas and claimed credit for themselves.
similary for Jurong and Bishan. Bishan has been valued higher than Jurong.
It is okay for Bishan if Orchard is higher than Bishan, that has always been the case. Now there is this upstart Jurong who try to claim to be more expensive, it is intolerable to Bishan. hence all the slamming.
vovolversace
01-10-13, 17:44
omg! how can the rental yield for Jurong be compared to one-north! :doh:
it is liken telling a person tat if he vests in Pasir Ris, he can aim to achieve the same rental yield as Tanah Merah!
Warning!Don't reply to this troll!! Thank You.
errr....correct you a bit can?
i will be very proud that my ex-worker or ex-subordinate can drive a Ferrari or stay in a better condo than me.
even better if his parents are the one that get him a Ferrari or a better condo and not by his own achievements.
because if a young chap achieve all this on his efforts, what would that make me an older chap? a useless nincomcoop, that's what. so it is only natural for an elder person to put a younger person in his place.
many people here would have personally observed that young upstarts are usually knocked down by their superiors. Perhaps they have experienced it themselves too whereby they try to suggest a good idea, pooh-poohed by their superiors in public, sometime later , the superiors implement their ideas and claimed credit for themselves.
similary for Jurong and Bishan. Bishan has been valued higher than Jurong.
It is okay for Bishan if Orchard is higher than Bishan, that has always been the case. Now there is this upstart Jurong who try to claim to be more expensive, it is intolerable to Bishan. hence all the slamming.
Hi hopeful
thank you for your sharing
maybe we think and view things differently
to me : an apprentice can 1 day be better than his coach
a disciple can 1 day be better than his master
If 1 day Jurong can sell higher in psf than Bishan, then be it
because it is demand and supply at work not because some one bought it without due respect to Bishan
If I understand correctly, prices of pasir ris properties are generally lower than Tanah Merah. So if a lower rental rate is achieved, the yield might be the same as Tanah Merah. Not possible?
yes, u r rite.
pasir ris cannot achieve the absolute rental amt as Tanah merah but can achieve the same yield. paiseh for the misunderstanding, I meant rental rate & not yield in my previous post :o
but using the one north vs Jgateway example, it will be impossible for J gateway to achieve one north yield unless it is cheaper in the 1st place.
More jobs moving from Redhill to Jurong East....
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/994556_608876722486567_658751697_n.jpg
SINGAPORE: The Labour Movement's Employment and Employability Institute (e2i) began operations at its new campus at Jurong East on Tuesday. e2i was previously located at Redhill.
e2i said the new campus is bigger and will offer enhanced services such as integrated services.
Job seekers will be able to receive coaching, sit for assessment tests, attend training and have access to job opportunities.
Targeted assistance for low-wage workers and professional, managers and executives (PMEs) will also be available when two new centres for these two groups of workers are set up at the campus.
e2i will also partner employers and offer solutions for their manpower and productivity needs.
e2i said there will be regular outreach events and engagement sessions to provide targeted and customised solutions to business owners to help them raise their company's productivity, improve business capabilities and up-skill their workforce.
With a larger space, e2i said it will be able to work with training partners to provide workers with access to classroom and experiential learning and vocational skills training.
- CNA/ac
Regulators
01-10-13, 20:17
Huh? U liken jgateway to be ferrari? :doh:
I think you are getting it mixed up with ferra residence
let me give u an example.
the manager drive a old mercedes.
one day, he hire a young chap, didnt know that the chap is rich.
so when the young chap drives a ferrari and park his car next to the manager, what would the manager feel? what would the rest of the colleagues feel?
the new chap has upset the natural order of things. if the new chap drive only a toyota, everything would be in harmony.
indeed there is nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker. just dont try to buy JG at 1700psf.
if the blue collar worker can afford a condo at 1700psf, dont buy it in Jurong, buy elsewhere, preferably bishan.
perhaps many of you would have observed where a young colleague try to upstage his superiors. and how they would whacked him to earth.
yes, u r rite.
pasir ris cannot achieve the absolute rental amt as Tanah merah but can achieve the same yield. paiseh for the misunderstanding, I meant rental rate & not yield in my previous post :o
but using the one north vs Jgateway example, it will be impossible for J gateway to achieve one north yield unless it is cheaper in the 1st place.
It is interesting that you said that the rental amount for Pasir Ris cannot be the same as Tanah Merah. Things may change in the not-too-distant future so I do think it is a bit premature to say. Going forward, on a psf basis, of course Pasir Ris may find it difficult to exceed Tanah Merah because the new condo units at TM are mostly compact ones, but in terms of rental quantum, Pasir Ris may not lose out.
It is also interesting that you said the yield achieved by one-north cannot be achieved by J Gateway. Same as above, things may change in the not-too-distant future, and again, I do think it is a bit premature to say. Of course, if your yield computation for one-north is based on its launch prices, it is almost certain win hands down. If you are comparing one-north against JG in this way, then in my view, it is not an equitable method of comparison as most properties bought in the past few years are likely to sit on very good rental yields now. It is still very early days for JG and only time will tell...
If there were no 1 north 200 hectare biz park, u think the condo rental will be there????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-north
Jurong lake district is 360 hectare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurong_Lake_District
Question, did anyone believe One North biz park will be so grand and succeed????
It is interesting that you said that the rental amount for Pasir Ris cannot be the same as Tanah Merah. Things may change in the not-too-distant future so I do think it is a bit premature to say. Going forward, on a psf basis, of course Pasir Ris may find it difficult to exceed Tanah Merah because the new condo units at TM are mostly compact ones, but in terms of rental quantum, Pasir Ris may not lose out.
It is also interesting that you said the yield achieved by one-north cannot be achieved by J Gateway. Same as above, things may change in the not-too-distant future, and again, I do think it is a bit premature to say. Of course, if your yield computation for one-north is based on its launch prices, it is almost certain win hands down. If you are comparing one-north against JG in this way, then in my view, it is not an equitable method of comparison as most properties bought in the past few years are likely to sit on very good rental yields now. It is still very early days for JG and only time will tell...
If there were no 1 north 200 hectare biz park, u think the condo rental will be there????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-north
Jurong lake district is 360 hectare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurong_Lake_District
Question, did anyone believe One North biz park will be so grand and succeed????
When someone tries to tell you that Pasir Ris is not lower valuation than Tanah Merah and paying same price in Newton as Orchard is not overpaying, we better stop talking. Because when people cannot understand the fundamentals of property investment and discuss based on "what I own is more valuable than anything else", it is a fruitless discussion.
DKSG
Bro, look at soleil vs amayllis ville, I cannot understand???
Bro, u ask me about Tanah Merah, I also don't understand why it can be 1.5k psf???? For Tanah Merah, it's because I am not familiar with that stretch....
The market forces determine if they want to buy....
Right now, market forces are determining CCR is not the way..... Why, TDSR and absd.... This are the game changers....
:D
When someone tries to tell you that Pasir Ris is not lower valuation than Tanah Merah and paying same price in Newton as Orchard is not overpaying, we better stop talking. Because when people cannot understand the fundamentals of property investment and discuss based on "what I own is more valuable than anything else", it is a fruitless discussion.
DKSG
why do say it is nonsense?
well, if 1700psf, 5% rental yield = 85psf or 7.08psf /month.
474sf x 7.08 = 3300pm required.
if only 1600psf, 5% rental yield = 80psf or 6.67psf/month.
474sf x 6.67 = 3100pm required.
would people pay that in the west?
well one-north people paying 3500 for 500-600sf units.
nonsense or not?
very simple, J Gateway isn't even built yet. hence, how can there be rental data? 5% is a mere speculation.
similarly, i can claim, without basis, rental yield will be 3% max only
very simple, J Gateway isn't even built yet. hence, how can there be rental data? 5% is a mere speculation.
similarly, i can claim, without basis, rental yield will be 3% max only
Bro, he can speculate 5% because of the future.... Likewise u can say 3% because I foresee this
Option
1. Singapore will be in recession then
2. Jurong gatweway will not attract biz
3. No one will rent because it is far from ccr
Etc... Then we can do a constructive argument rite?
U debunk at least substantiate leh... Whether people buy is another issue rite...
I say Las Vegas will boom and time to buy casino stocks.... It will grow... People can debunk it by sharing rite... If people just say 'u siow, how can?', then how I learn?
Bro, he can speculate 5% because of the future.... Likewise u can say 3% because I foresee this
Option
1. Singapore will be in recession then
2. Jurong gatweway will not attract biz
3. No one will rent because it is far from ccr
Etc... Then we can do a constructive argument rite?
U debunk at least substantiate leh... Whether people buy is another issue rite...
I say Las Vegas will boom and time to buy casino stocks.... It will grow... People can debunk it by sharing rite... If people just say 'u siow, how can?', then how I learn?
precisely, anyone can claim a certain figure. read the joker's statements and arguments in the thread and see if he accepts alternative views.
i'm all up for a good, robust debate (like with hopeful, regulator, thomas, bbj21, mermaid, chiaberry, etc). while we can't always agree on certain issues, we accept that each can have different views
Bro, look at soleil vs amayllis ville, I cannot understand???
Bro, u ask me about Tanah Merah, I also don't understand why it can be 1.5k psf???? For Tanah Merah, it's because I am not familiar with that stretch....
The market forces determine if they want to buy....
Right now, market forces are determining CCR is not the way..... Why, TDSR and absd.... This are the game changers....
:D
why look at $psf? look at quantum and the difference is there.
It is interesting that you said that the rental amount for Pasir Ris cannot be the same as Tanah Merah. Things may change in the not-too-distant future so I do think it is a bit premature to say.
Wif the shifting of OFS, more or less there will be certain extent of increase in demand for ppty in Pasir Ris, but does tat means tat Pasir Ris will be able to catch up wif the rental amt in Tanah Merah?
Let me give u an example.
Say the current mm in Tanah Merah is $2.5k per mth while an equiv mm in Pasir Ris is oni $2k. If u tell me tat demand for Pasir Ris mm can fight wif those in Tanah Merah, I wun be surprise cos being a potential tenant, I dun mind staying a few stn further away from central of spore/my work place (eg the tanah financial hub/uni etc) as there is quite a significant amt of savings per mth (25% diff).
However, as demand for Pasir Ris mm inceases (due to its low rental), rental amt will oso increase … say until it reaches $2.5k (as per how u feel, Pasir Ris can be on par wif Tanah Merah).
So now tell me, wat is the incentive now to pay the same amt for a location which is not as ideal?
Tenants will find it more worthwhile to rent Tanah Merah. So when demand for Tanah Merah increases, rental amount will increase.
So, it is possible for Pasir Ris mm to command a rental amt of $2.5k. But wat tis happen, Tanah Merah will no longer be $2.5k anymore.
Going forward, on a psf basis, of course Pasir Ris may find it difficult to exceed Tanah Merah because the new condo units at TM are mostly compact ones, but in terms of rental quantum, Pasir Ris may not lose out.
Gg fwd, it will be easier to compare Pasir Ris & Tanah Merah becos both recent new launches r equally compact.
It is also interesting that you said the yield achieved by one-north cannot be achieved by J Gateway. Same as above, things may change in the not-too-distant future, and again, I do think it is a bit premature to say. Of course, if your yield computation for one-north is based on its launch prices, it is almost certain win hands down. If you are comparing one-north against JG in this way, then in my view, it is not an equitable method of comparison as most properties bought in the past few years are likely to sit on very good rental yields now. It is still very early days for JG and only time will tell...
U see huh, there is nothing wrong wif J gateway. The only “flaw” is tat further potential is limited as current pricing for Jgateway has already factored in all the potentials. But I would feel tat other older projects like Caspian will hv unlimited potential as the initial investment outlay is much smaller as compared to J gateway.
why look at $psf? look at quantum and the difference is there.
Brudder, I look at both and still cannot figure
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/15536975/for-sale-amaryllis-ville
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/12794605/for-sale-soleil-sinaran
Just an example.... I did not scrutinise it closely...
Apparently Soleil sizes are bigger and their psf also higher...
So it is not a case of closer to town rite????
Not asking for an argument here hor.... Just scratching my head... Apparently the market decides leh....
The reason why people picking on Ringo is because some do not like his way of answering/reply....
I just looking for reasons... I am here to learn leh...:D:D:D
Brudder, I look at both and still cannot figure
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/15536975/for-sale-amaryllis-ville
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/12794605/for-sale-soleil-sinaran
Just an example.... I did not scrutinise it closely...
Apparently Soleil sizes are bigger and their psf also higher...
So it is not a case of closer to town rite????
Not asking for an argument here hor.... Just scratching my head... Apparently the market decides leh....
The reason why people picking on Ringo is because some do not like his way of answering/reply....
I just looking for reasons... I am here to learn leh...:D:D:D
both are in similar locale but soleil is newer and better location.
what i was refering to is dksg's point on rcr and ocr.
If there were no 1 north 200 hectare biz park, u think the condo rental will be there????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-north
Jurong lake district is 360 hectare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurong_Lake_District
Question, did anyone believe One North biz park will be so grand and succeed????
When talking about one-north, I always have a mixed feeling. I think the success of one-north is not only because the biz park, but the external environment of one-north residence. The tranquil, yet beautiful one-north park added more value to the condo than itself. From this aspect, J-gateway is not comparable. As a matter of fact, many tenants in one-north has nothing to do with the biz park there, they simply like the environment.
However, the design of one-north per se is really a disappointment. It is so disappointing that I would feel headache every time when I hear of the name of UOL. At such a good location, UOL has built such a "warm", transparent, and cramped condo so that the residents there have to turn on the air-con almost 24hrs a day.
When someone tries to tell you that Pasir Ris is not lower valuation than Tanah Merah and paying same price in Newton as Orchard is not overpaying, we better stop talking. Because when people cannot understand the fundamentals of property investment and discuss based on "what I own is more valuable than anything else", it is a fruitless discussion.
DKSG
the phrase is strange coming for you. you seems to be guilty of discussing based on ""what I own is more valuable than anything else" ie Bishan is more valuable than Jurong".
At the very least, there is a JLD story, any Bishan story?
the phrase is strange coming for you. you seems to be guilty of discussing based on ""what I own is more valuable than anything else" ie Bishan is more valuable than Jurong".
At the very least, there is a JLD story, any Bishan story?
tink u r mistaken. when dksg mentioned bishan, it nid not necc means tat he is vested. he is merely using the loc of recent launches to illustrate.
the point tat he is trying to bring abt is tat, in generally a more centralised location of Singapore is deemed to be more valuable than the extreme east/west/north.
no doubt one can argue tat the "inferior" location has a lot of development coming up, but tat doesn't auto upgrade the inferior location to a more "prime" location.
juz like a poor chap dressed up in branded & drive posh car doesn't transform him into a rich person mah, haha :D
tink u r mistaken. when dksg mentioned bishan, it nid not necc means tat he is vested. he is merely using the loc of recent launches to illustrate.
.....
R33 promoted/defended JLD/JG, yet forummers here accused him that he promoted/defended strongly because he bought a unit in JG. afaik, R33 has never acknowledged getting a unit.
yet DKSG has always made the point of using SV in comparing to JG. No forummers have accused him of being vested in SV?
as you said, it need not necessarily means R33 is vested in JG and DKSG is not vested in SV.
it seems to be the burden of proof is always on the lesser popular forummer.
R33 promoted/defended JLD/JG, yet forummers here accused him that he promoted/defended strongly because he bought a unit in JG. afaik, R33 has never acknowledged getting a unit.
yet DKSG has always made the point of using SV in comparing to JG. No forummers have accused him of being vested in SV?
as you said, it need not necessarily means R33 is vested in JG and DKSG is not vested in SV.
The diff lies in :
1. dksg used many projects to illustrated b4 while R33 defended J gateway hostily.
2. dksg sounds more like a salesman who condemn Jgateway while R33 sounds more like someone who is vested in J gateway/developer of Jgateway (IMHO).
3. If u say T3 is better den SV, or SV is a cheap neighbourhood, I dun see dksg defending aggressively.
But if u comment tat Jgateway is no gd etc ... R33 will come in & shot at u :D
it seems to be the burden of proof is always on the lesser popular forummer.
tis is rubbish! we talk based on logic, not by herd mentality.
fyi, R33 is definitely a popular forummer. juz look at how popular his threads r :D
***********************************************************************************************************************
when I told R33
me? sour grapes? :scared-5: u muz be kidding uncle!
if I hv bought a high flr rcr mm which is 2-3 mins fm mrt wif no west sun at below $1400psf, I cant fanthom wat aspect of Jurong I shd be envy of :cheers1:
he replied
Are you saying you are one of the sour grape MTB, or are you using this opportunity to brag about what you might have bought?
the conclusion I gathered is tat R33 wanna boast how great Jgateway is. But when someone presents tat he has gotten a cheaper/better deal, he cannot accept & accused others of bragging?
R33 promoted/defended JLD/JG, yet forummers here accused him that he promoted/defended strongly because he bought a unit in JG. afaik, R33 has never acknowledged getting a unit.
yet DKSG has always made the point of using SV in comparing to JG. No forummers have accused him of being vested in SV?
as you said, it need not necessarily means R33 is vested in JG and DKSG is not vested in SV.
it seems to be the burden of proof is always on the lesser popular forummer.
i dont think between the two there is any common consensus who is the more or less popular forum member.
the 2 main actors now absent. No more epic slugfest liao. only bit players left. looks like this thread dying a slow death.
must be because of this post
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=434326&postcount=1545
then people realised that JG buyers are people too, more likely Jurong HDB upgraders. Attacking JG at 17xxpsf (should be 15xx) is like saying Jurong people are carrotheads, idiots, brain-damaged as a result of industrial pollutants.
Out of sensitivity, the attacks against R33, JLD story, JG seems to lessen because attacking him is indirectly questioning the intelligence of the Jurong residents.
the mood of the thread seem to have shifted.
i dont think between the two there is any common consensus who is the more or less popular forum member.
hopefully somebody is free enough and have the know-how to setup such a poll :)
The difference lies in your own interpretation of what DKSG wrote.
If you are so eager, here is a quick summary for you to comment.
1) In July 2013, DKSG said that Jurong PC owners will start to take profit and upgrade to property closer to town, as a result price of properties between Jurong to Orchard will rise. Sep 2013, price of Bishan new launch is 10 to 15% below SH, URA estimate indicated that CCR RCR property prices came down, while OCR continue to surge.
SO MERMAID, whats your opinion on this?
2) In July 13, DKSG said that The Sail @ $20xxpsf is a good buy, so good that DKSG is compelled to buy. Sep 2013, DKSG thinks that The Sail @ $18xx is a good buy, but still talk only didnt buy. Has the sail price fallen by 10% in 2 months? Or is DKSG flip flopping and throwing darts in the dark?
So Mermaid, what is your opinion on this?
3) In Aug 2013, DKSG also said Trizon @$18xxpsf for 2 bedder is a better. Good based on what? Because J Gateway is $17xx for a MM apartment?
So Mermaid, what is your opinion on this?
3) In Aug 2013, DKSG also said that PLAB is a better buy as compared to JLD. I have asked him countless times, where exactly in PLAB would you recommend to buy now the government doesnt even have a concrete plan of what they are going to do with it? All Fart no Shit?
So Mermaid, whats your opinion?
4) In Sep 2013, SV didnt managed to sell out their entire project despite being closer to town and similar pricing to J Gateway. And now DKSG is saying that Bishan has got higher valuation
So Mermaid, what does higher higher valuation has got to do with which project is better since banks value J Gateway at the same price as SV.
Appreciate if you could give us some direct answers to the above question instead of ALL FART NO SHIT (EBD) and slitter away like a snake.
hopefully somebody is free enough and have the know-how to setup such a poll :)
I questioned the intention of yr poll.
Is there such a nid?
A more popular/high profile forummer does not means tat he is always more well liked.
as much as I can see where dksg is coming from, I dun agree on everything tat he said.
no doubt tat R33 is kinda nasty in names calling, but others who did the same back to him r equally as bad, no?
I feel tat u r oso a supporter of the West, but did u see ppl came in bashing u?
Brudder, I look at both and still cannot figure
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/15536975/for-sale-amaryllis-ville
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/12794605/for-sale-soleil-sinaran
Just an example.... I did not scrutinise it closely...
Apparently Soleil sizes are bigger and their psf also higher...
So it is not a case of closer to town rite????
Not asking for an argument here hor.... Just scratching my head... Apparently the market decides leh....
The reason why people picking on Ringo is because some do not like his way of answering/reply....
I just looking for reasons... I am here to learn leh...:D:D:D
Just a comment on the Soleil and Amaryllis comparison.
When you go into Soleil thread, you read lots of concerns about it being right next to hospital and yet after TOP, the prices surprise many.
Soleil is in Novena whereas Amaryliis is more towards Newton with 2 gates (Newton and towards Novena). But MRT is much nearer to Soleil.
Would think there are probably 2 reasons why market think the difference should be so great. One, Amaryllis is closer towards 20 year of lease where as Soleil is much newer, and second, the high floors at Soleil have a fantastic panaromic city view, Amaryllis best stacks have more limited view with no sky garden. But market sometimes quite confusing, nearby Lincoln suites 1 room almost hit 3000pfs whereas 1 room at Park infinia hit 2100pfs only and Soleil 1 room >2200pfs
Regulators
02-10-13, 12:24
The point a lot of sensible people are driving at is that if u want to buy a pty in a town constantly polluted by industrial affluent, the price had better be good. Guys like R33 only look at future developments in jurong to make a statement that they hv invested wisely, but that clearly is not the case from a price perspective. When people criticise n say that the price is not right, R33 would whip out data of Caspian n centris to justify the growth n rental potential of jgateway. It sounds like someone who has missed the boat n desperately trying to get the boat back when the boat has sailed miles away from the shore.
the 2 main actors now absent. No more epic slugfest liao. only bit players left. looks like this thread dying a slow death.
must be because of this post
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=434326&postcount=1545
then people realised that JG buyers are people too, more likely Jurong HDB upgraders. Attacking JG at 17xxpsf (should be 15xx) is like saying Jurong people are carrotheads, idiots, brain-damaged as a result of industrial pollutants.
Out of sensitivity, the attacks against R33, JLD story, JG seems to lessen because attacking him is indirectly questioning the intelligence of the Jurong residents.
the mood of the thread seem to have shifted.
Appreciate if you could give us some direct answers to the above question instead of ALL FART NO SHIT (EBD) and slitter away like a snake.
U juz examine yr attitude in responding to others and tell me does it warrant others to not to be nasty to u.
1) In July 2013, DKSG said that Jurong PC owners will start to take profit and upgrade to property closer to town.
Tat is his own prediction. Want to take profit & upgrade vs want to take profit & ABLE to upgrade is totally a diff thing.
Jgateway at $1700psf doesn’t mean tat other older proj can fetch tis $ too.
1) as a result price of properties between Jurong to Orchard will rise. Sep 2013, price of Bishan new launch is 10 to 15% below SH, URA estimate indicated that CCR RCR property prices came down, while OCR continue to surge.
I feel tat with the high quantum for Orchard, hard for prices to rise. Jurong is part of OCR but OCR prices is not primarily determined by Jurong.
2) In July 13, DKSG said that The Sail @ $20xxpsf is a good buy, so good that DKSG is compelled to buy. Sep 2013, DKSG thinks that The Sail @ $18xx is a good buy, but still talk only didnt buy.
I give u an example.
The market rate for fish is $30/kg, pork is $20/kg.
If pork is selling at $15/kg (25% discount) with fish remained at $30/kg , I feel tat it is very worth to buy pork.
Then the next day, fish leylong to $20/kg (33% discount), I feel tat pork at $15/kg is too exp. I would rather buy fish.
Then come the 3rd day, fish become $15/kg same price as pork, I would feel tat pork is overpriced.
The moral behind the story is:
Pricing cannot be viewed in isolation; it is relative.
2) but still talk only didnt buy. Has the sail price fallen by 10% in 2 months? Or is DKSG flip flopping and throwing darts in the dark?
I agree wif him on tis.
A gd buy doesn’t mean tat u hv to buy.
A gd buy doesn't mean tat it is the best buy.
A gd buy doesn’t mean tat it suits yr reqmt.
3) In Aug 2013, DKSG also said that PLAB is a better buy as compared to JLD. I have asked him countless times, where exactly in PLAB would you recommend to buy now the government doesnt even have a concrete plan of what they are going to do with it? All Fart no Shit?
Tis sentence is not very well phrased. I suppose the qn is asking whether a proj in PLAB is a better buy den Jgateway in JLD?
If yes, I would choose to buy a proj in PLAB too.
Reason : Jgateway pricing has alrdy factored in all future potential, Im not optimistic on huge capital appreciation.
But if u r asking me issit better to invest in a new proj in PLAB or buying a resale Caspian at eg $1400psf, I will definitely choose Caspian.
4) In Sep 2013, SV didnt managed to sell out their entire project despite being closer to town and similar pricing to J Gateway. And now DKSG is saying that Bishan has got higher valuation
So Mermaid, what does higher higher valuation has got to do with which project is better since banks value J Gateway at the same price as SV.
My personal take is tat SV is only worth buying for lower flr. In fact the higher flrs will be hard to sell as psf is not cheap. If buying for invstmt, I would rather get Jgateway den SV if both r $1700psf.
I feel tat dksg's definition of higher valuation refers the more strategic positioning of Bishan loc as compared to Jurong loc. In tis aspect, I agree wif him.
FACTS
Capsian is the ONLY TOP project in whole of district 22 that has got MM apartments and being 2 MRT stops away from Jurong East, it is the closest and most comparable example to use as a basis to project rental for J Gateway MM.
And J Gateway being located at the heart of Jurong Gateway with 5 big malls, hospitals, office towers, country club, integrated transport hub, Jurong Lake, garden etc all within walking distant, is surely a far more superior project than Caspian.
Hence I think you must be pretty naive to believe that rent at J gateway will not be higher than Caspian. Just like all the comments you made at the caspian thread.
Regulators
02-10-13, 12:46
Already told u to compare the yield of those who bought Caspian MM at launch n the yield of those who buy jgateway. If u can't achieve the same kind of percentage yield, what is the point of bringing it up? Also u r assuming MM rental will stay that way for Caspian all the way up to jgateway TOP, don't u think that is being naive? :doh:
FACTS
Capsian is the ONLY TOP project in whole of district 22 that has got MM apartments and being 2 MRT stops away from Jurong East, it is the closest and most comparable example to use as a basis to project rental for J Gateway MM.
And J Gateway being located at the heart of Jurong Gateway with 5 big malls, hospitals, office towers, country club, integrated transport hub, Jurong Lake, garden etc all within walking distant, is surely a far more superior project than Caspian.
Hence I think you must be pretty naive to believe that rent at J gateway will not be higher than Caspian. Just like all the comments you made at the caspian thread.
It is indeed tough and heartbreaking to see people holding onto a Jurong MM that was sold at the same price as a Bishan/Thomson MM struggling.
And then have to try day and night to convince himself and others that paying the same price is normal.
Which part of Jurong and Bishan/Thomson same price ---> choose Bishan/Thomson --> that people cannot understand ? Why when we say Scotts Road and Newton same price, choose Scotts Road, people can understand ? Or maybe also cannot.
It is indeed tough to educate people that if :
Jurong sells at $1,6xx psf resulting in SV selling at $1,9xx psf, then $2,0xx psf for The Sail is good buy.
BUT BUT BUT if Jurong sold for $1,6xx psf, and SV sold for only $1,5xx psf, then The Sail's good buy will no longer by $2,0xx psf, it will drop to $1,8xx psf.
Mermaid is right, at $1,6xx psf, most future gains are already factored in.
The saving grace is that for Singapore properties, as long as one wait long enough, it will always go up.
walkthetiger
02-10-13, 13:43
I give u an example.
The market rate for fish is $30/kg, pork is $20/kg.
If pork is selling at $15/kg (25% discount) with fish remained at $30/kg , I feel tat it is very worth to buy pork.
Then the next day, fish leylong to $20/kg (33% discount), I feel tat pork at $15/kg is too exp. I would rather buy fish.
Then come the 3rd day, fish become $15/kg same price as pork, I would feel tat pork is overpriced.
The moral behind the story is:
Pricing cannot be viewed in isolation; it is relative.
...even a fishmonger understands this easily....sometimes stubbornness blinds people.
Wif the shifting of OFS, more or less there will be certain extent of increase in demand for ppty in Pasir Ris, but does tat means tat Pasir Ris will be able to catch up wif the rental amt in Tanah Merah?
Let me give u an example.
Say the current mm in Tanah Merah is $2.5k per mth while an equiv mm in Pasir Ris is oni $2k. If u tell me tat demand for Pasir Ris mm can fight wif those in Tanah Merah, I wun be surprise cos being a potential tenant, I dun mind staying a few stn further away from central of spore/my work place (eg the tanah financial hub/uni etc) as there is quite a significant amt of savings per mth (25% diff).
However, as demand for Pasir Ris mm inceases (due to its low rental), rental amt will oso increase … say until it reaches $2.5k (as per how u feel, Pasir Ris can be on par wif Tanah Merah).
So now tell me, wat is the incentive now to pay the same amt for a location which is not as ideal?
Tenants will find it more worthwhile to rent Tanah Merah. So when demand for Tanah Merah increases, rental amount will increase.
So, it is possible for Pasir Ris mm to command a rental amt of $2.5k. But wat tis happen, Tanah Merah will no longer be $2.5k anymore.
Gg fwd, it will be easier to compare Pasir Ris & Tanah Merah becos both recent new launches r equally compact.
U see huh, there is nothing wrong wif J gateway. The only “flaw” is tat further potential is limited as current pricing for Jgateway has already factored in all the potentials. But I would feel tat other older projects like Caspian will hv unlimited potential as the initial investment outlay is much smaller as compared to J gateway.
Hi Mermaid, thanks for taking time out to explain. I used to think along the lines of your explanation on Tanah Merah and Pasir Ris. But I also do notice pockets of the property market sometimes do work in a not-so-straightforward fashion. For example, the rent of a 500 to 600 sqf unit at The Sail and One-North is about the same ($4,000) and this has been going on for sometime. Of course, we can argue that The Sail is not a good reference for comparison because there are on-going issues there. Even so, how do we explain this observation. I can only speculate the reason for this is that the tenant profile for One-North could be those working in the Buona Vista / NUS vicinity and they are willing and able to pay that kind of rent asked by the owners of One-North. Coming back to the pasir ris and tanah merah example, is it possible that the same scenario at the sail / one-north will play out? Your guess is as good as mine. If I view it from another angle, can I say that PR property have "little to lose" as they can command the same yield as TM and yet in with a shout to ask for the same rent as TM?
As for J Gateway, I don't disagree that the developer may have priced in the future potential of JLD. However when I compare the prices achieved by JG and the other new (99LH) launches all over the island over the last two years, I don't see JG prices are significantly higher than the rest. As for Caspian, my humble opinion is that it will also ride on the JLD wave but whether it will outperform JG, it is hard to say at the moment because I think its performance is likely to be influenced by JG as a benchmark.
When someone tries to tell you that Pasir Ris is not lower valuation than Tanah Merah and paying same price in Newton as Orchard is not overpaying, we better stop talking. Because when people cannot understand the fundamentals of property investment and discuss based on "what I own is more valuable than anything else", it is a fruitless discussion.
DKSG
Hi DKSG, I am not really sure what you mean. I thought Mermaid and I were just having a discussion on PR/TM and JG. I'm not trying to slam his or her views. Am not sure why you said "it is a fruitless discussion". It does come across as condescending.
Just as I respect Mermaid and other forumer's views, I also do respect your views. We joined this forum to share our knowledge and experience and for some of us to learn (myself included) something as well. I do think mutual respect in this forum will go some way in helping everyone get something useful out of this forum. I hope you get my drift.
I give u an example.
The market rate for fish is $30/kg, pork is $20/kg.
If pork is selling at $15/kg (25% discount) with fish remained at $30/kg , I feel tat it is very worth to buy pork.
Then the next day, fish leylong to $20/kg (33% discount), I feel tat pork at $15/kg is too exp. I would rather buy fish.
Then come the 3rd day, fish become $15/kg same price as pork, I would feel tat pork is overpriced.
1) There is no such thing as a market rate for fish and pork, its all depends on supply and demand. Just like property. when there are too many buyer chasing after 1 development, result is sold one 1 day. On the other hand if the product is not attractive, even with discount, promo girls in swimsuit, it will still not be sold out.
2) Pork and Fish are a totally different products, they are not close substitute. If pork is expensive, buyer will just switch to chicken, beef or even not eat meat at all.
Just like property J Gateway and Bishan SV are total different products. one is located in the heart of business district within Singapore largest employment zone, the other is located heart of residential district near cemetery. So for someone looking for a place at Jurong will not suddenly switch to Bishan just because price is jurong property is more expensive.
3) Again, there is no such thing as overpriced if its being sold out. One need to respect the market force. If you wan an example of over price product? Think Sky Habitat.
My personal take is tat SV is only worth buying for lower flr. In fact the higher flrs will be hard to sell as psf is not cheap. If buying for invstmt, I would rather get Jgateway den SV if both r $1700psf.
I feel tat dksg's definition of higher valuation refers the more strategic positioning of Bishan loc as compared to Jurong loc. In tis aspect, I agree wif him.
Capitaland tries to sell SH as D9 and D10 property and they failed miserably, not because banks are not prepare to lend, or valuer are not agreeable to the selling price, but buyers doesnt see the value of SH at that price.
About 20 years ago, Bishan was still a cemetery town and today someone is trying to brag there Bishan is good buy. So my question is, if cemetery can turn into good buy, why cant JLD turn into MUST buy? Ultimately what you and I think is not important, it is how the market think that is important.
1) There is no such thing as a market rate for fish and pork, its all depends on supply and demand. Just like property. when there are too many buyer chasing after 1 development, result is sold one 1 day. On the other hand if the product is not attractive, even with discount, promo girls in swimsuit, it will still not be sold out.
2) Pork and Fish are a totally different products, they are not close substitute. If pork is expensive, buyer will just switch to chicken, beef or even not eat meat at all.
Just like property J Gateway and Bishan SV are total different products. one is located in the heart of business district within Singapore largest employment zone, the other is located heart of residential district near cemetery. So for someone looking for a place at Jurong will not suddenly switch to Bishan just because price is jurong property is more expensive.
3) Again, there is no such thing as overpriced if its being sold out. One need to respect the market force. If you wan an example of over price product? Think Sky Habitat.
if u cannot relate the message tat Im trying to bring across via the analogy, I tink it will be pointless for me to explain further.
P/S: I have nvr deny the fact tat Sky habitat is overpriced. In fact, Trilinq, Urban Vista, Jgateway are all overpriced IMHO.
Tis sentence is not very well phrased. I suppose the qn is asking whether a proj in PLAB is a better buy den Jgateway in JLD?
If yes, I would choose to buy a proj in PLAB too.
Reason : Jgateway pricing has alrdy factored in all future potential, Im not optimistic on huge capital appreciation.
But if u r asking me issit better to invest in a new proj in PLAB or buying a resale Caspian at eg $1400psf, I will definitely choose Caspian.
Nah DKSG is trying be too smart, trying to see more than what his vision allows him.
Talking about buying PLAB now is like throwing darts in the dark because no one, not even URA has got any concrete plan they are going to do with PLAB, and here we have someone saying BUY?
BUY what is exactly I am asking?
Of course talk is free what, you can say want to buy the entire PLAB it will still cost you nothing.
if u cannot relate the message tat Im trying to bring across via the analogy, I tink it will be pointless for me to explain further.
P/S: I have nvr deny the fact tat Sky habitat is overpriced. In fact, Trilinq, Urban Vista, Jgateway are all overpriced IMHO.
There are no comparison between fish and pork, so dont even think of trying.
So my question is, if cemetery can turn into good buy, why cant JLD turn into MUST buy? Ultimately what you and I think is not important, it is how the market think that is important.
there is no such thing as to whether cemetery/JLD will be a gd/bad buy. Im sure a prudent buyer will not make a decision based on tis alone.
I can tell u, JLD is a gd buy, provided the price is the same as all other OCR projects. Else, it is expensive.
Take SV for example. At $1400- $1500psf for mm, everyone snatches. When it reaches $1600 - $1700 (for the higher flr), ppl oso stop buying even though Bishan is such a fantastic loc.
The rationale is the same regardless of the loc ...
Hi Mermaid, thanks for taking time out to explain. I used to think along the lines of your explanation on Tanah Merah and Pasir Ris. But I also do notice pockets of the property market sometimes do work in a not-so-straightforward fashion. For example, the rent of a 500 to 600 sqf unit at The Sail and One-North is about the same ($4,000) and this has been going on for sometime. Of course, we can argue that The Sail is not a good reference for comparison because there are on-going issues there. Even so, how do we explain this observation. I can only speculate the reason for this is that the tenant profile for One-North could be those working in the Buona Vista / NUS vicinity and they are willing and able to pay that kind of rent asked by the owners of One-North. Coming back to the pasir ris and tanah merah example, is it possible that the same scenario at the sail / one-north will play out? Your guess is as good as mine. If I view it from another angle, can I say that PR property have "little to lose" as they can command the same yield as TM and yet in with a shout to ask for the same rent as TM?
I noe wat u r driving at.
Non prime (One-North) doesn’t necc means the prices cannot be matched up with the Prime (The Sail). Tis I agree. But it doesn’t means tat becos One-North can fetch the same $ as The Sail, J gateway will be able to do so.
Assume, J Gateway managed to fetch One-North rental rate. But it oso cannot match One-North rental yield cos J gateway initial investment amt is way much higher in the 1st place.
Coming back to the pasir ris and tanah merah example, is it possible that the same scenario at the sail / one-north will play out? Your guess is as good as mine. If I view it from another angle, can I say that PR property have "little to lose" as they can command the same yield as TM and yet in with a shout to ask for the same rent as TM?
It is true, Pasir Ris ppty has nothing to lose as their prices r way much cheaper den Tanah Merah. In fact, Pasir Ris yield can be much better even though their rental amount is much lower den Tanah Merah due to the lower psf.
Btw, pricing for Urban Vista at Tanah Merah is similar to Jgateway.
Regulators
02-10-13, 14:41
and buyers of jgateway are relying on that saving grace and not good investment sense.
It is indeed tough and heartbreaking to see people holding onto a Jurong MM that was sold at the same price as a Bishan/Thomson MM struggling.
And then have to try day and night to convince himself and others that paying the same price is normal.
Which part of Jurong and Bishan/Thomson same price ---> choose Bishan/Thomson --> that people cannot understand ? Why when we say Scotts Road and Newton same price, choose Scotts Road, people can understand ? Or maybe also cannot.
It is indeed tough to educate people that if :
Jurong sells at $1,6xx psf resulting in SV selling at $1,9xx psf, then $2,0xx psf for The Sail is good buy.
BUT BUT BUT if Jurong sold for $1,6xx psf, and SV sold for only $1,5xx psf, then The Sail's good buy will no longer by $2,0xx psf, it will drop to $1,8xx psf.
Mermaid is right, at $1,6xx psf, most future gains are already factored in.
The saving grace is that for Singapore properties, as long as one wait long enough, it will always go up.
there is no such thing as to whether cemetery/JLD will be a gd/bad buy. Im sure a prudent buyer will not make a decision based on tis alone.
I can tell u, JLD is a gd buy, provided the price is the same as all other OCR projects. Else, it is expensive.
Take SV for example. At $1400- $1500psf for mm, everyone snatches. When it reaches $1600 - $1700 (for the higher flr), ppl oso stop buying even though Bishan is such a fantastic loc.
The rationale is the same regardless of the loc ...
What is your logic in using other OCR property price as a price ceiling for JLD properties?
Perhaps you could give us an example of a OCR district that is similar to JLD.
As for J Gateway, I don't disagree that the developer may have priced in the future potential of JLD. However when I compare the prices achieved by JG and the other new (99LH) launches all over the island over the last two years. I don't see JG prices are significantly higher than the rest.
Take mm launched tis yr for example. I still can find a handful of cheaper ones. One can argue tat the below may not hv any potential but Jgateway pricing alrdy factored in the potential, else it shd be similar.
La Fiesta (near SengKang mrt OCR)
highest $1440psf, lowest $1238psf
Bartley Ridge (near Bartley mrt RCR)
highest $1564psf, lowest $1281psf
Dnest (near Pasir Ris mrt OCR)
highest $1299psf, lowest $1041psf
Jewel (near buangkok mrt OCR)
$1411psf, lowest $1272psf
Jgateway (near Jurong mrt OCR)
highest $1774psf, lowest $1440psf
(Figures extracted fm URA)
Take mm launched tis yr for example. I still can find a handful of cheaper ones. One can argue tat the below may not hv any potential but Jgateway pricing alrdy factored in the potential, else it shd be similar.
La Fiesta (near SengKang mrt OCR)
highest $1440psf, lowest $1238psf
Bartley Ridge (near Bartley mrt RCR)
highest $1564psf, lowest $1281psf
Dnest (near Pasir Ris mrt OCR)
highest $1299psf, lowest $1041psf
Jewel (near buangkok mrt OCR)
$1411psf, lowest $1272psf
Jgateway (near Jurong mrt OCR)
highest $1774psf, lowest $1440psf
(Figures extracted fm URA)
J Gateway located right next to
1) IMM
2) NTF Hospital
3) Jurong Community hospital
4) Jem shopping mall cum office tower
5) Westgate shopping mall cum office tower
6) J Cube mall
7) Big Box warehouse retail mall
8) RWS hotel
9) Jurong Country club
10) International business park
11) launched and yet to launched commercial office tower
12) Chinese and Japanese Garden
13) Science Center, Omni theater, Snow City Ice Skating Rink
14) Jurong Lake.
15) Integrated transport hub with 3 MRT line interchange (2025)
J Gateway located right next to
1) IMM
2) NTF Hospital
3) Jurong Community hospital
4) Jem shopping mall cum office tower
5) Westgate shopping mall cum office tower
6) J Cube mall
7) Big Box warehouse retail mall
8) RWS hotel
9) Jurong Country club
10) International business park
11) launched and yet to launched commercial office tower
12) Chinese and Japanese Garden
13) Science Center, Omni theater, Snow City Ice Skating Rink
14) Jurong Lake.
15) Integrated transport hub with 3 MRT line interchange (2025)
aiyo! :doh: if Im yr teacher I will sure vomit blood leh! I tot I hv explained in great details the whole morning liao u still dun get the moral behind my story ????
*faint* liddat I give up.
aiyo! :doh: if Im yr teacher I will sure vomit blood leh! I tot I hv explained in great details the whole morning liao u still dun get the moral behind my story ????
*faint* liddat I give up.
he is stuck in his logical loop, dont waste your time, lol.
still waiting for "laoya" fone that cost the same as a smart fone.
dont say laoya fone is JG and smart fone is SV.
a real actual phone please.
you see, in the market, there is no such thing as a "laoya" fone that cost the same as a smart fone.
these are false choices.
similar eg people usually give is toyota versus ferrari at same price, which would you buy? there is no such thing as toyota and ferrari at same price.
For pork and fish example.
previously chicken is more expensive than fish.
yet now, fish is more expensive than chicken.
things do change in importance as the market decides.
the 2 main actors now absent. No more epic slugfest liao. only bit players left. looks like this thread dying a slow death.
must be because of this post
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=434326&postcount=1545
then people realised that JG buyers are people too, more likely Jurong HDB upgraders. Attacking JG at 17xxpsf (should be 15xx) is like saying Jurong people are carrotheads, idiots, brain-damaged as a result of industrial pollutants.
Out of sensitivity, the attacks against R33, JLD story, JG seems to lessen because attacking him is indirectly questioning the intelligence of the Jurong residents.
the mood of the thread seem to have shifted.
I have been to several threads all over this forum for some time (just that I have been a silent reader and only started to post now because I've got some free time :D:D). I came away with the conclusion that every location and property has its own supporters and naysayers. This is also a reflection of the diversity that we have in this forum, market place and the society at large.
Initially, I accept that not everyone will like Jurong / JG. I can also accept that some of us may find JG "over-valued" for whatever reasons. I think that's fine as everyone is entitled to their opinions. Then the comments started to shift to attack and condemnation mode about Jurong and its residents: "air pollution in Jurong area", "odour-less poisonous fumes breathe in by people who stay in Jurong" and whatever not... In some cases, I think some of the comments were bordering on personal attacks as well. Personally, I don't think such comments are necessary for one to get his or her points across. And I don't find the same type of disparaging comments being said about other part of Singapore. So why do some of us deem it fit to use such such words and comments? I can't help but go away with the impression that some of us have a condescending attitude towards others.
Although one can argue this is a public forum and that we can always ignore such comments, we also cannot deny that people who reside in the western region and read this might naturally get offended (and become defensive). Already we can see that the quality of this thread/forum has gone downhill and for some of us, it has become an unpleasant experience. There are countless rounds of comments over the same thing over and over again. I also think there are some forumers who just want to have the final word on everything but the reality is that it won't happen until everyone exercises some self-restrain.
My point is this: I think all of us owe it to ourselves and the participants of this forum to be mindful and exercise some self-restrain.
Lastly, I am a nobody but a learning participant in this forum. If you think what I have written above is garbage, please ignore it. Thank you.
J Gateway located right next to
1) IMM
2) NTF Hospital
3) Jurong Community hospital
4) Jem shopping mall cum office tower
5) Westgate shopping mall cum office tower
6) J Cube mall
7) Big Box warehouse retail mall
8) RWS hotel
9) Jurong Country club
10) International business park
11) launched and yet to launched commercial office tower
12) Chinese and Japanese Garden
13) Science Center, Omni theater, Snow City Ice Skating Rink
14) Jurong Lake.
15) Integrated transport hub with 3 MRT line interchange (2025)
Most of these places are already there for the past 10 years.
How does a warehouse retail whatever (I cannot bring myself to say that it is a "mall") increase value of properties around it ? Like the IKEA in Tampines with Giant ?!
IBP can increase value ? Then value already increased when prices is at $680 psf ! Similiarly Chinese/Japanese Garden also.
Jurong and Bishan/Thomson same price. That is already a given fact.
Bishan/Thomson is more valuable than Jurong is also given.
You see, we are trying to help you validate the stories your agent(s) are telling you.
DKSG
I have been to several threads all over this forum for some time (just that I have been a silent reader and only started to post now because I've got some free time :D:D). I came away with the conclusion that every location and property has its own supporters and naysayers. This is also a reflection of the diversity that we have in this forum, market place and the society at large.
Initially, I accept that not everyone will like Jurong / JG. I can also accept that some of us may find JG "over-valued" for whatever reasons. I think that's fine as everyone is entitled to their opinions. Then the comments started to shift to attack and condemnation mode about Jurong and its residents: "air pollution in Jurong area", "odour-less poisonous fumes breathe in by people who stay in Jurong" and whatever not... In some cases, I think some of the comments were bordering on personal attacks as well. Personally, I don't think such comments are necessary for one to get his or her points across. And I don't find the same type of disparaging comments being said about other part of Singapore. So why do some of us deem it fit to use such such words and comments? I can't help but go away with the impression that some of us have a condescending attitude towards others.
Although one can argue this is a public forum and that we can always ignore such comments, we also cannot deny that people who reside in the western region and read this might naturally get offended (and become defensive). Already we can see that the quality of this thread/forum has gone downhill and for some of us, it has become an unpleasant experience. There are countless rounds of comments over the same thing over and over again. I also think there are some forumers who just want to have the final word on everything but the reality is that it won't happen until everyone exercises some self-restrain.
My point is this: I think all of us owe it to ourselves and the participants of this forum to be mindful and exercise some self-restrain.
Lastly, I am a nobody but a learning participant in this forum. If you think what I have written above is garbage, please ignore it. Thank you.
I think we have to differentiate between EVERYONE in Jurong and just that few hundred people who bought the Jurong MM (not even including non-MM buyers who paid $1,3xx psf).
By trying to rally all Jurong people to join someone in defending buying Jurong MM at $1,6xx is a bit despicable.
And I think our point is very simple.
Bishan/Thomson just sold for the same price as Jurong. Period.
DKSG
Take mm launched tis yr for example. I still can find a handful of cheaper ones. One can argue tat the below may not hv any potential but Jgateway pricing alrdy factored in the potential, else it shd be similar.
La Fiesta (near SengKang mrt OCR)
highest $1440psf, lowest $1238psf
Bartley Ridge (near Bartley mrt RCR)
highest $1564psf, lowest $1281psf
Dnest (near Pasir Ris mrt OCR)
highest $1299psf, lowest $1041psf
Jewel (near buangkok mrt OCR)
$1411psf, lowest $1272psf
Jgateway (near Jurong mrt OCR)
highest $1774psf, lowest $1440psf
(Figures extracted fm URA)
Hi mermaid, once again thanks for taking time to respond.
Ok I get your drift. Good luck in our own property hunting !!
aiyo! :doh: if Im yr teacher I will sure vomit blood leh! I tot I hv explained in great details the whole morning liao u still dun get the moral behind my story ????
*faint* liddat I give up.
I am just listing them down for the record so if you think the JLD property price MUST be equal to all other ocr property price then I am asking you WHY SO?
I think we have to differentiate between EVERYONE in Jurong and just that few hundred people who bought the Jurong MM (not even including non-MM buyers who paid $1,3xx psf).
By trying to rally all Jurong people to join someone in defending buying Jurong MM at $1,6xx is a bit despicable.
And I think our point is very simple.
Bishan/Thomson just sold for the same price as Jurong. Period.
DKSG
Not sure why you have use words like "despicable"...
To each our own...
Out of sensitivity, the attacks against R33, .....
Huh? Are you saying that R33 is a defenseless innocent forumer who doesn't attack? You have read and posted before in the landed forums. Please be objective and tell all here truthfully about his actions in the landed forum.
You yourself, in fact, have inadvertently called him 'low-class' behind his back in case you have forgotten.
LIKE!
You speak my mind! Salute to 081828 and Ringo!
I have been to several threads all over this forum for some time (just that I have been a silent reader and only started to post now because I've got some free time :D:D). I came away with the conclusion that every location and property has its own supporters and naysayers. This is also a reflection of the diversity that we have in this forum, market place and the society at large.
Initially, I accept that not everyone will like Jurong / JG. I can also accept that some of us may find JG "over-valued" for whatever reasons. I think that's fine as everyone is entitled to their opinions. Then the comments started to shift to attack and condemnation mode about Jurong and its residents: "air pollution in Jurong area", "odour-less poisonous fumes breathe in by people who stay in Jurong" and whatever not... In some cases, I think some of the comments were bordering on personal attacks as well. Personally, I don't think such comments are necessary for one to get his or her points across. And I don't find the same type of disparaging comments being said about other part of Singapore. So why do some of us deem it fit to use such such words and comments? I can't help but go away with the impression that some of us have a condescending attitude towards others.
Although one can argue this is a public forum and that we can always ignore such comments, we also cannot deny that people who reside in the western region and read this might naturally get offended (and become defensive). Already we can see that the quality of this thread/forum has gone downhill and for some of us, it has become an unpleasant experience. There are countless rounds of comments over the same thing over and over again. I also think there are some forumers who just want to have the final word on everything but the reality is that it won't happen until everyone exercises some self-restrain.
My point is this: I think all of us owe it to ourselves and the participants of this forum to be mindful and exercise some self-restrain.
Lastly, I am a nobody but a learning participant in this forum. If you think what I have written above is garbage, please ignore it. Thank you.
proud owner
02-10-13, 15:42
When talking about one-north, I always have a mixed feeling. I think the success of one-north is not only because the biz park, but the external environment of one-north residence. The tranquil, yet beautiful one-north park added more value to the condo than itself. From this aspect, J-gateway is not comparable. As a matter of fact, many tenants in one-north has nothing to do with the biz park there, they simply like the environment.
However, the design of one-north per se is really a disappointment. It is so disappointing that I would feel headache every time when I hear of the name of UOL. At such a good location, UOL has built such a "warm", transparent, and cramped condo so that the residents there have to turn on the air-con almost 24hrs a day.
I went to One north launch presentation ...
I actually believed in the whole area .. and wanted to buy a unit ... but I was already holding 3 properties at that time...so gave it a miss..
on 2 occasions when I came back to Singapore for home leave, I stayed at One North residences with a friend... I actually liked it a lot ...
the environment is nice .. the layout of the unit is good ...
the walk to MRT station is ok ish .. just that its warm and humid and made that short journey quite unbearable.
Most of these places are already there for the past 10 years.
How does a warehouse retail whatever (I cannot bring myself to say that it is a "mall") increase value of properties around it ? Like the IKEA in Tampines with Giant ?!
IBP can increase value ? Then value already increased when prices is at $680 psf ! Similiarly Chinese/Japanese Garden also.
Jurong and Bishan/Thomson same price. That is already a given fact.
Bishan/Thomson is more valuable than Jurong is also given.
You see, we are trying to help you validate the stories your agent(s) are telling you.
DKSG
If you wish to comment on the lists, why cherry pick to comment on some while totally ignoring the rest? Are too afraid to confront the truth or are you here just to create false info to feed your headless trolls?
$680psf? From which year, for what size. Was this with or without JLD?
proud owner
02-10-13, 15:54
...even a fishmonger understands this easily....sometimes stubbornness blinds people.
if I only eat fish and not pork...the price drop in pork will not interest me ..
in fact as a buyer I might try my luck and ask the fishmonger if theres a discount... who knows I might be lucky ..since there are many who believe that if fish price stays the same and pork price drops, aunties doing grocery will switch to pork, the fishmonger may just sell me cheaper..
Not sure why you have use words like "despicable"...
To each our own...
I said "a bit despicable", how can you, like others whom you talking about, lift one word and comment ?
Not very good leh ...
DKSG
If you wish to comment on the lists, why cherry pick to comment on some while totally ignoring the rest? Are too afraid to confront the truth or are you here just to create false info to feed your headless trolls?
$680psf? From which year, for what size. Was this with or without JLD?
You cannot read the whole sentence ?
From the time IBP is created, from the time Chinese/Japanese garden is created. 10 years ago.
Since you ham-pa-lang, all put in the say the Jurong $1,6xx psf MM has all these "facilities" including Chinese/Jap Garden, IBP, we have to point out to you that these doesnt increase the value of Jurong. BECAUSE they have been there for more than 10 years.
You have to restrict your list of facilities that will cause Jurong prices to escalate to NEW facilities. Not those old ones which have been there for eons. Because if those there since eons can increase the value of Jurong, they have already increased.
DKSG
I am just listing them down for the record so if you think the JLD property price MUST be equal to all other ocr property price then I am asking you WHY SO?
It is not my intention to try to convince u tat JLD prices muz be the same wif other OCR prices.
I am saying ... J gateway prices is very high cos it has alrdy factored in all the potential of JLD.
1. If it hasn't, J gateway shd command similar prices to other OCR projects.
2. Since it has alrdy factored in the potential, further appreciation is limited.
3. Since price is high, cannot expect the same high rental yield as other lower investment old projects.
Got my points? I tot I explain in great details & in simple English liao ... really so hard to understand meh? :banghead: If still dun get it, nvm & dun bother to ask me to explain all over again the same point in diff form.
You cannot read the whole sentence ?
From the time IBP is created, from the time Chinese/Japanese garden is created. 10 years ago.
Since you ham-pa-lang, all put in the say the Jurong $1,6xx psf MM has all these "facilities" including Chinese/Jap Garden, IBP, we have to point out to you that these doesnt increase the value of Jurong. BECAUSE they have been there for more than 10 years.
You have to restrict your list of facilities that will cause Jurong prices to escalate to NEW facilities. Not those old ones which have been there for eons. Because if those there since eons can increase the value of Jurong, they have already increased.
DKSG
I am not sure if you remember saying MOST of the project I listed where already around since 10 years ago? So I am asking you, why bring up IBP and chinese garden, what about the rest? Cherry picking?
I am just stating the fact about the USP of J Gateway and its surrounding and why is mentioning IBP, Chinese garden in appropriate? Is that too overwhelming?
So does that mean that if you sell SV or SH, you are not supposed to talk about RI or proximity to the central catchment area or if you sell D15, you are not supposed to talk about the beach because they are more than 10 years old?
I am sorry, I see no logic in your reasoning here.
It is not my intention to try to convince u tat JLD prices muz be the same wif other OCR prices.
I am saying ... J gateway prices is very high cos it has alrdy factored in all the potential of JLD.
1. If it hasn't, J gateway shd command similar prices to other OCR projects.
2. Since it has alrdy factored in the potential, further appreciation is limited.
3. Since price is high, cannot expect the same high rental yield as other lower investment old projects.
Got my points? I tot I explain in great details & in simple English liao ... really so hard to understand meh? :banghead: If still dun get it, nvm & dun bother to ask me to explain all over again the same point in diff form.
Already factor in all the potential of JLD
I have listed down around 15 items about JLD, could you possibly put a dollar psf value to each of the items? Do you have information about what the market knows and doesnt know? ( i am not referring to fish or pork market of course)
If you cant, then how do you know that potential future value has already been factored in?
proud owner
02-10-13, 16:34
to all bros and sis in this thread :
in real estate investment, especially in Singapore, its very different from other major cities in the world.
Spore is small ... no where is too far from anywhere.
Bishan is more residential. JLD is mre industrial. But there are indeed growth plans for JLD... at $1700 psf (highest) many feel it is expensive and has built in future value. But hey, which new launch hasn't built in future value ?
for those who has no reasons and need to be in Jurong will think Bishan is a better buy.
for those whose work takes them to Jurong, rather than getting caught in the PIE jam every morning and evening, might as well live there. After all there are schools and malls and all. And a future growth plan in place.
for investment... if you look at bishan area... anymore land for more growth other than pockets of lands for condos ? In that aspect, Jurong is a better buy and the growth plan for the next 15 20 years means better chance of rental demand and price appreciation.
you can argue that the launch price is already too high and no room for further appreciation.
Look at Luxus landed terraces.. at that location, that time, it was so so expensive... see where it is now... in fact it kind triggered price hike for landed in Seletar..
Between Greenwood and Newton, which is a better location ?
GW has restaurants and schools.
Newton/Chancery has restaurants and schools too. It also has MRT stn..
Why is GW landed psf much higher than NEwton ?
by the argument of the anti JLD, newton should be priced higher right ?
but no GW is pricier. how do you explain that ?
its all about buyer preferences.
if I am buying to stay, and my work is in CBD, I would buy Bishan in a heart beat( that is if I have only 2 choices, Bishan or JLD).
if I work in Jurong, JLD will be my choice.
JLD maybe priced higher than Bishan, it is near my work place. I would save on travelling time, and it has amenities and MORE in the next 10 years.
in a small country like Singapore... its hard to determine which is a better location. In the past yes, easy.. CCR is the best.
a lot has changed since.
a location with Growth potential is a better one.
Already factor in all the potential of JLD
I have listed down around 15 items about JLD, could you possibly put a dollar psf value to each of the items? Do you have information about what the market knows and doesnt know? ( i am not referring to fish or pork market of course)
If you cant, then how do you know that potential future value has already been factored in?
so u r trying to tell me J gateway current pricing has yet to factor in the future development tats y u conservatively estimated the rental yield to be 4-5% & a selling price of $1900/$2000psf upon TOP?
walkthetiger
02-10-13, 16:47
to all bros and sis in this thread :
Spore is small ... no where is too far from anywhere.... if I work in Jurong, JLD will be my choice.
...a location with Growth potential is a better one.
If S ‘pore is really that small, then you don't need to move to Jurong.
The growth potential: Bishan is nearer to CBD... the heartbeat of Singapore economy.
so u r trying to tell me J gateway current pricing has yet to factor in the future development tats y u conservatively estimated the rental yield to be 4-5% & a selling price of $1900/$2000psf upon TOP?
I am very familiar with this taichi avoidance tactic of replying a question with another question.
Let me ask you this.
Did you, in your own words, said that "J Gateway pricing has alrdy factored in ALL the potential of JLD"?
If the answer is yes, then you must know how to put a dollar psf value to all development with JLD, or else how can you make the above statement?
So Mermaid, could you then put a dollar value to the 15 items I have listed about JLD??
If you cant just say you cant, dont need to give excuses or tell me stories.
If S ‘pore is really that small, then you don't need to move to Jurong.
The growth potential: Bishan is nearer to CBD... the heartbeat of Singapore economy.
Why do you want to be near when you can be right in the heart of Singapore largest commercial center?
I am very familiar with this taichi avoidance tactic of replying a question with another question.
Let me ask you this.
Did you, in your own words, said that "J Gateway pricing has alrdy factored in ALL the potential of JLD"?
If the answer is yes, then you must know how to put a dollar psf value to all development with JLD, or else how can you make the above statement?
So Mermaid, could you then put a dollar value to the 15 items I have listed about JLD??
If you cant just say you cant, dont need to give excuses or tell me stories.
I nid u to reply me b4 I can answer u.
since u cant quantify & justify yr stand, on wat basic do u expect others to do the same for u?
anyway, like I mentioned b4, Im not vested in Jgateway so Im not worry abt the fate.
If it doesn't rise up to expectation, it is the owners who suffer.
If it beats expectation, my ppty prices will rise too hence it is a win win situation for me.
If S ‘pore is really that small, then you don't need to move to Jurong.
The growth potential: Bishan is nearer to CBD... the heartbeat of Singapore economy.
not sure about heartbeat.
looks like manufacturing has biggest share of GDP.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistics/visualising_data/chart/Share_Of_GDP_By_Industry.html
I nid u to reply me b4 I can answer u.
since u cant quantify & justify yr stand, on wat basic do u expect others to do the same for u?
anyway, like I mentioned b4, Im not vested in Jgateway so Im not worry abt the fate.
If it doesn't rise up to expectation, it is the owners who suffer.
If it beats expectation, my ppty prices will rise too hence it is a win win situation for me.
I am fully aware that you are pretty clueless about JLD and thats what exactly I am trying to prove here. And thanks for making it short and sharp.
Now that you have admitted to not have a clue about JLD, I hope you can stop making cheap shot comment that J Gateway price has already factored in ALL the potential of JLD.
J Gateway price has already factored in ALL the potential of JLD.
Tis is a fact.
u can choose to deny but tis fact will not change.
no point trying to argue yr way out & try yr means to convince me becos I am neither a potential buyer nor tenant.
U juz nid to ask yrself tis qn:
Using $2000psf allows u to buy a mm of any district u like, which one will u choose?
There is no nid for u to tell us yr choice but if yr answer is not Jgateway, den u shd realise the message tat I am bringing across.
with tis I rest my case.
Already factor in all the potential of JLD
I have listed down around 15 items about JLD, could you possibly put a dollar psf value to each of the items? Do you have information about what the market knows and doesnt know? ( i am not referring to fish or pork market of course)
If you cant, then how do you know that potential future value has already been factored in?
Hi Ringo33
I am also one of them that did mentioned that the future growth had been factored in to the value of J Gateway.
The developer knows all these 15 completed future and on going development or maybe even more than you and the man in the street before they decide to price their product and they did a Good job marketing their product with this intrinsic value element (to me the developer is like the MM in the stock market)
Of course we can see that the market respond were overwhelming and sold within a day despite 7 earlier CMs
So either the developer had calculated the value wrong or the general buying
market knows something the developer don't ?
Now I am not trying to dispute how to peg these future development by using dollar term onto JG because it cannot be measured in monetary equivalent
Now what I am trying to say is this
The developer had set the price (with intrinsic value) and the market has accepted that offer
So it will take time to see whether who is right(developer who is the seller or buyer who is the market) as the price will find its water level in due time
I am interested in JG but back off once it was made known it was oversubscribed
So if somewhere in the future if I do make a purchase it would be either
I am buying at a discounted price or at a higher price the present owner paid for
I leave it to market forces
Thank you
Please do not lood me hor
am only a novice learning from real expert here :(
Hi Ringo33
I am also one of them that did mentioned that the future growth had been factored in to the value of J Gateway.
The developer knows all these 15 completed future and on going development or maybe even more than you and the man in the street before they decide to price their product and they did a Good job marketing their product with this intrinsic value element (to me the developer is like the MM in the stock market)
Of course we can see that the market respond were overwhelming and sold within a day despite 7 earlier CMs
So either the developer had calculated the value wrong or the general buying
market knows something the developer don't ?
Now I am not trying to dispute how to peg these future development by using dollar term onto JG because it cannot be measured in monetary equivalent
Now what I am trying to say is this
The developer had set the price (with intrinsic value) and the market has accepted that offer
So it will take time to see whether who is right(developer who is the seller or buyer who is the market) as the price will find its water level in due time
I am interested in JG but back off once it was made known it was oversubscribed
So if somewhere in the future if I do make a purchase it would be either
I am buying at a discounted price or at a higher price the present owner paid for
I leave it to market forces
Thank you
My view is that MCL Land could have priced it higher. Before the launch date, the prices quoted were higher than what we see on the URA data now. On the day of the launch, I think the actual prices were about $100 psf lower or thereabouts. (If people can recall, the launch date coincided with the announcement of the TDSR framework. Maybe MCL Land gotten wind of this announcement; I don't know.) Even with the initial prices, the response was still overwhelming. By the time JG was shaping up for its launch, I think there were two ballot slips for every unit. It was that crazy.
If MCL Land had not lower its prices on launch date, would JG still be sold out within a short span of time? I think it is entirely possible given the overwhelming response. But of course this is just my own pure speculation. My point is, I do think, MCL Land "left some money on the table" for buyers. It could have tried to cream off more from buyers by not lowering prices and still sell off all JG units within a short span of time.
So why did MCL Land did what it did? Perhaps the answer lies along the lines of what Ringo had mentioned before; MCL Land lowered JG prices so to create a total sell-out marketing statement as it has another project near Lakeside due for launch soon.
to all bros and sis in this thread :
in real estate investment, especially in Singapore, its very different from other major cities in the world.
Spore is small ... no where is too far from anywhere.
Bishan is more residential. JLD is mre industrial. But there are indeed growth plans for JLD... at $1700 psf (highest) many feel it is expensive and has built in future value. But hey, which new launch hasn't built in future value ?
for those who has no reasons and need to be in Jurong will think Bishan is a better buy.
for those whose work takes them to Jurong, rather than getting caught in the PIE jam every morning and evening, might as well live there. After all there are schools and malls and all. And a future growth plan in place.
for investment... if you look at bishan area... anymore land for more growth other than pockets of lands for condos ? In that aspect, Jurong is a better buy and the growth plan for the next 15 20 years means better chance of rental demand and price appreciation.
you can argue that the launch price is already too high and no room for further appreciation.
Look at Luxus landed terraces.. at that location, that time, it was so so expensive... see where it is now... in fact it kind triggered price hike for landed in Seletar..
Between Greenwood and Newton, which is a better location ?
GW has restaurants and schools.
Newton/Chancery has restaurants and schools too. It also has MRT stn..
Why is GW landed psf much higher than NEwton ?
by the argument of the anti JLD, newton should be priced higher right ?
but no GW is pricier. how do you explain that ?
its all about buyer preferences.
if I am buying to stay, and my work is in CBD, I would buy Bishan in a heart beat( that is if I have only 2 choices, Bishan or JLD).
if I work in Jurong, JLD will be my choice.
JLD maybe priced higher than Bishan, it is near my work place. I would save on travelling time, and it has amenities and MORE in the next 10 years.
in a small country like Singapore... its hard to determine which is a better location. In the past yes, easy.. CCR is the best.
a lot has changed since.
a location with Growth potential is a better one.
Thumbs-up :cheers4:
See, many people really make the mistake in property investment. Look for a place with lots of land nearby to invest because there is growth and future developments nearby? :doh:
If this is the case, might as well buy in Johor, Kuantan or Tregganu, lots of empty land to further develop! Will you make money investing in property in those places like that?
The whole of London is really not big, but the property prices in Zone 1 to Zone 4 can be >10x !!! :scared-1:
Mind you, London has 1 of the most comprehensive train system running from Zone 1 to Zone 4 accompanied with Park-and-Ride in the outer Zones! It will be the same for Singapore sooner or later: Zone 1 = CCR, Zone 4 = OCR!
Let's see, Jurong $2000 psf, Orchard $20,000 psf? Will we see that in next 10 years?
Now Jurong $1500 psf, Orchard $3000 psf average. Well, looks like Orchard has a lot of upside potential compared to Jurong!
to all bros and sis in this thread :
in real estate investment, especially in Singapore, its very different from other major cities in the world.
Spore is small ... no where is too far from anywhere.
Bishan is more residential. JLD is mre industrial. But there are indeed growth plans for JLD... at $1700 psf (highest) many feel it is expensive and has built in future value. But hey, which new launch hasn't built in future value ?
for those who has no reasons and need to be in Jurong will think Bishan is a better buy.
for those whose work takes them to Jurong, rather than getting caught in the PIE jam every morning and evening, might as well live there. After all there are schools and malls and all. And a future growth plan in place.
for investment... if you look at bishan area... anymore land for more growth other than pockets of lands for condos ? In that aspect, Jurong is a better buy and the growth plan for the next 15 20 years means better chance of rental demand and price appreciation.
you can argue that the launch price is already too high and no room for further appreciation.
Look at Luxus landed terraces.. at that location, that time, it was so so expensive... see where it is now... in fact it kind triggered price hike for landed in Seletar..
Between Greenwood and Newton, which is a better location ?
GW has restaurants and schools.
Newton/Chancery has restaurants and schools too. It also has MRT stn..
Why is GW landed psf much higher than NEwton ?
by the argument of the anti JLD, newton should be priced higher right ?
but no GW is pricier. how do you explain that ?
its all about buyer preferences.
if I am buying to stay, and my work is in CBD, I would buy Bishan in a heart beat( that is if I have only 2 choices, Bishan or JLD).
if I work in Jurong, JLD will be my choice.
JLD maybe priced higher than Bishan, it is near my work place. I would save on travelling time, and it has amenities and MORE in the next 10 years.
in a small country like Singapore... its hard to determine which is a better location. In the past yes, easy.. CCR is the best.
a lot has changed since.
a location with Growth potential is a better one.
My view is that MCL Land could have priced it higher. Before the launch date, the prices quoted were higher than what we see on the URA data now. On the day of the launch, I think the actual prices were about $100 psf lower or thereabouts. (If people can recall, the launch date coincided with the announcement of the TDSR framework. Maybe MCL Land gotten wind of this announcement; I don't know.) Even with the initial prices, the response was still overwhelming. By the time JG was shaping up for its launch, I think there were two ballot slips for every unit. It was that crazy.
If MCL Land had not lower its prices on launch date, would JG still be sold out within a short span of time? I think it is entirely possible given the overwhelming response. But of course this is just my own pure speculation. My point is, I do think, MCL Land "left some money on the table" for buyers. It could have tried to cream off more from buyers by not lowering prices and still sell off all JG units within a short span of time.
So why did MCL Land did what it did? Perhaps the answer lies along the lines of what Ringo had mentioned before; MCL Land lowered JG prices so to create a total sell-out marketing statement as it has another project near Lakeside due for launch soon.
Hi 081828
Yes maybe they got wind of the TDSR
but believed the general market don't as it was announced after market closed I think, after 5pm
that bring us to another topic.....Return unit
not many were returned and those returned were those with multiple purchase
From here we can see the faith buyers have in this project
but will not want to speculate what will happen in 2 ~ 3 years down the road
then got this feeling...should be good as I like the buzzzzz :)
To simi: correction , MCL Land not MM stock , it belongs to HK Land, Jardine family, blue chip ok :)
Jgway at 1700 should be "fully valued", this is my opinion.
Although the discussions here fun to watch :)
developer sure to place some tua pek kong here to promote the next project.
Hi Ringo33
I am also one of them that did mentioned that the future growth had been factored in to the value of J Gateway.
The developer knows all these 15 completed future and on going development or maybe even more than you and the man in the street before they decide to price their product and they did a Good job marketing their product with this intrinsic value element (to me the developer is like the MM in the stock market)
Of course we can see that the market respond were overwhelming and sold within a day despite 7 earlier CMs
So either the developer had calculated the value wrong or the general buying
market knows something the developer don't ?
Now I am not trying to dispute how to peg these future development by using dollar term onto JG because it cannot be measured in monetary equivalent
Now what I am trying to say is this
The developer had set the price (with intrinsic value) and the market has accepted that offer
So it will take time to see whether who is right(developer who is the seller or buyer who is the market) as the price will find its water level in due time
I am interested in JG but back off once it was made known it was oversubscribed
So if somewhere in the future if I do make a purchase it would be either
I am buying at a discounted price or at a higher price the present owner paid for
I leave it to market forces
Thank you
JLD was first announce in 2008 at the point in time we have already seen all the ura impressive presentation. However price of properties in jurong didn't actually take off unit people starts to see the construction activities and the opening of JEM shopping mall. This is a classic example of seeing is believe or you could say The proof of the pudding is tasting it.
Judging from the comments I read in this forum I would say that there is still a sizable group of buyer and investors out there who still have no clue about what exactly is happening in JLD. And in property it's not about how much you know. It's about how many people knows about it, the more buyer chasing after limited supply the higher is the price.
You think that after one j gateway launch and one JEM opening, jld has reach e peak of its potential? I would say we have seen nothing yet. The entire skyline around jurong gateway is going transform and the evevning backdrop of jld is going to be so bright and beautiful that it will look like a city on its own.
Like I said on my first post, this is only the first wave The second wave will come when westgate and JEM office tower top. Its only when people see it then they realize the true value.
To simi: correction , MCL Land not MM stock , it belongs to HK Land, Jardine family, blue chip ok :)
Jgway at 1700 should be "fully valued", this is my opinion.
Although the discussions here fun to watch :)
Side track a bit
Blue chip can also be controlled or correct word "Used"
to move the index :)
Agreed that its fun if all can be mutual and respectful of each other views
JLD was first announce in 2008 at the point in time we have already seen all the ura impressive presentation. However price of properties in jurong didn't actually take off unit people starts to see the construction activities and the opening of JEM shopping mall. This is a classic example of seeing is believe or you could say The proof of the pudding is tasting it.
Judging from the comments I read in this forum I would say that there is still a sizable group of buyer and investors out there who still have no clue about what exactly is happening in JLD. And in property it's not about how much you know. It's about how many people knows about it, the more buyer chasing after limited supply the higher is the price.
You think that after one j gateway launch and one JEM opening, jld has reach e peak of its potential? I would say we have seen nothing yet. The entire skyline around jurong gateway is going transform and the evevning backdrop of jld is going to be so bright and beautiful that it will look like a city on its own.
Like I said on my first post, this is only the first wave The second wave will come when westgate and JEM office tower top. Its only when people see it then they realize the true value.
Hi Ringo33
thank you for replying and reinforcing your points again
All in CCR or JLD are vested because they must have done their own hardwork and visioning; just like climbing physically to a higher level to look further into the horizon. Just that, the two groups are looking at different directions (CCR & west) and merely stating what is appearing before their eyes. So, nobody is wrong here because both are right in stating what they see.
JLD was first announce in 2008 at the point in time we have already seen all the ura impressive presentation. However price of properties in jurong didn't actually take off unit people starts to see the construction activities and the opening of JEM shopping mall. This is a classic example of seeing is believe or you could say The proof of the pudding is tasting it.
Judging from the comments I read in this forum I would say that there is still a sizable group of buyer and investors out there who still have no clue about what exactly is happening in JLD. And in property it's not about how much you know. It's about how many people knows about it, the more buyer chasing after limited supply the higher is the price.
You think that after one j gateway launch and one JEM opening, jld has reach e peak of its potential? I would say we have seen nothing yet. The entire skyline around jurong gateway is going transform and the evevning backdrop of jld is going to be so bright and beautiful that it will look like a city on its own.
Like I said on my first post, this is only the first wave The second wave will come when westgate and JEM office tower top. Its only when people see it then they realize the true value.
I said "a bit despicable", how can you, like others whom you talking about, lift one word and comment ?
Not very good leh ...
DKSG
Glad you realise it is not good to use such word(s). Hope you don't do it again. Thanks.
Regulators
02-10-13, 23:40
If u had so much faith in jld back in 2008, then u must be a real goon to wait till 2013 to enter the jurong mkt at peak pricing. :doh:
JLD was first announce in 2008 at the point in time we have already seen all the ura impressive presentation. However price of properties in jurong didn't actually take off unit people starts to see the construction activities and the opening of JEM shopping mall. This is a classic example of seeing is believe or you could say The proof of the pudding is tasting it.
Judging from the comments I read in this forum I would say that there is still a sizable group of buyer and investors out there who still have no clue about what exactly is happening in JLD. And in property it's not about how much you know. It's about how many people knows about it, the more buyer chasing after limited supply the higher is the price.
You think that after one j gateway launch and one JEM opening, jld has reach e peak of its potential? I would say we have seen nothing yet. The entire skyline around jurong gateway is going transform and the evevning backdrop of jld is going to be so bright and beautiful that it will look like a city on its own.
Like I said on my first post, this is only the first wave The second wave will come when westgate and JEM office tower top. Its only when people see it then they realize the true value.
If u had so much faith in jld back in 2008, then u must be a real goon to wait till 2013 to enter the jurong mkt at peak pricing. :doh:
Very sharp analysis!
But there will always be people who MTB in 08 (lehman time) and pray hard that property market crash by 50% and after MTB for so long and kenna so many CMs, no choice hamtam a Jurong MM. And then realise that the Bishan/Thomson MM sold afew months later at the SAME or LOWER price !
Where is the poll asking people's preference betw Jurong and Bishan MM at same price which one will people buy ?
DKSG
If u had so much faith in jld back in 2008, then u must be a real goon to wait till 2013 to enter the jurong mkt at peak pricing. :doh:
You dont know about who you talking to, so please stop embarrassing yourself by making up stories about others and then feed on it like a headless troll.
Since 2008, J Gateway is also the only and most prime residential project has has been launched within Jurong Gateway. So what nonsense are you talking about?
Please stop trolling this thread with all that cheap talk and side show. If you need attention, you can start a new thread to brag about your imaginary "5 properties-Sometime 10K sometime 15k", or "I am rich, I have more money than you"
Very sharp analysis!
But there will always be people who MTB in 08 (lehman time) and pray hard that property market crash by 50% and after MTB for so long and kenna so many CMs, no choice hamtam a Jurong MM. And then realise that the Bishan/Thomson MM sold afew months later at the SAME or LOWER price !
Where is the poll asking people's preference betw Jurong and Bishan MM at same price which one will people buy ?
DKSG
You sound like a desperate headless troll that feed of lies and fairytales
Block 285A Executive HDB flat sold $840,000 in Aug 2013.
I think this should be the record price in that area.
You have summarized it all...many ppl don't see it. In which countries do they have many job creation outside city?? London? KL?
They only know, buy CCR, nothing will grow wrong, but they didn't see the better value in investing in places like JLD.
:2cents:
to all bros and sis in this thread :
in real estate investment, especially in Singapore, its very different from other major cities in the world.
Spore is small ... no where is too far from anywhere.
Bishan is more residential. JLD is mre industrial. But there are indeed growth plans for JLD... at $1700 psf (highest) many feel it is expensive and has built in future value. But hey, which new launch hasn't built in future value ?
for those who has no reasons and need to be in Jurong will think Bishan is a better buy.
for those whose work takes them to Jurong, rather than getting caught in the PIE jam every morning and evening, might as well live there. After all there are schools and malls and all. And a future growth plan in place.
for investment... if you look at bishan area... anymore land for more growth other than pockets of lands for condos ? In that aspect, Jurong is a better buy and the growth plan for the next 15 20 years means better chance of rental demand and price appreciation.
you can argue that the launch price is already too high and no room for further appreciation.
Look at Luxus landed terraces.. at that location, that time, it was so so expensive... see where it is now... in fact it kind triggered price hike for landed in Seletar..
Between Greenwood and Newton, which is a better location ?
GW has restaurants and schools.
Newton/Chancery has restaurants and schools too. It also has MRT stn..
Why is GW landed psf much higher than NEwton ?
by the argument of the anti JLD, newton should be priced higher right ?
but no GW is pricier. how do you explain that ?
its all about buyer preferences.
if I am buying to stay, and my work is in CBD, I would buy Bishan in a heart beat( that is if I have only 2 choices, Bishan or JLD).
if I work in Jurong, JLD will be my choice.
JLD maybe priced higher than Bishan, it is near my work place. I would save on travelling time, and it has amenities and MORE in the next 10 years.
in a small country like Singapore... its hard to determine which is a better location. In the past yes, easy.. CCR is the best.
a lot has changed since.
a location with Growth potential is a better one.
Two school of thoughts:
1. CCR is the super prime area. All other region's pricing have to take cues from how well connected it is to CCR. I.e. no other regions can exceed CCR in terms of pricing. Also, the better connected it is, the more superior it is. I.e. Bishan is more superior because it is better connected to CCR than Punggol.
2. Jurong is a super fast growth region and will grow faster than the rest of Singapore. In the best case scenario, it can even exceed other regions in terms of pricing. (i.e. challenging the proximity/connectivity value as mentioned above)
#1 is definitely true for me. As for #2, it has happened in the case of JG. Only people who believed strongly in #2 will buy JG. For those who are not, you perhaps do not believe in #2. For me, I will have to wait to see if JG is repeated in other new developments in Jurong.
Two school of thoughts:
1. CCR is the super prime area. All other region's pricing have to take cues from how well connected it is to CCR. I.e. no other regions can exceed CCR in terms of pricing. Also, the better connected it is, the more superior it is. I.e. Bishan is more superior because it is better connected to CCR than Punggol.
2. Jurong is a super fast growth region and will grow faster than the rest of Singapore. In the best case scenario, it can even exceed other regions in terms of pricing. (i.e. challenging the proximity/connectivity value as mentioned above)
#1 is definitely true for me. As for #2, it has happened in the case of JG. Only people who believed strongly in #2 will buy JG. For those who are not, you perhaps do not believe in #2. For me, I will have to wait to see if JG is repeated in other new developments in Jurong.
If we want to make a fair comparing, then we should not use Core Central Region (CCR) to compare with JG, because CCR is a region that cover from Bukit Timah all the way to Marina South.
Whereas JG is one development located within JLD, which is within Jurong Western Region and is part of the OUTSIDE CORE CENTRAL REGION.
So when someone CCR is better buy, they should also say which part of CCR or which particular project is a better buy and better buy in terms of what? self consumption or investment returns?
Anyone?
If we want to make a fair comparing, then we should not use Core Central Region (CCR) to compare with JG, because CCR is a region that cover from Bukit Timah all the way to Marina South.
Whereas JG is one development located within JLD, which is within Jurong Western Region and is part of the OUTSIDE CORE CENTRAL REGION.
So when someone CCR is better buy, they should also say which part of CCR or which particular project is a better buy and better buy in terms of what? self consumption or investment returns?
Anyone?
I did not mention anything about better buy. Rather, I'm trying to describe the drivers at a macro level behind the recent pricing on JG vs SV. The thing about property is that it is not really like a stock market where pricing is so transparent and dynamic. We can says buying this share vs this other share is a better buy becos both share and information are available at the same time. In theory we can discuss about it. But, in reality, we cant. Prices have changed and JG is no longer or easily available.
Valuation is by past transactions and the exact revaluation of JG will not happened until a new transaction of a JG happened. It will of course be positively increased by nearby condo's increasing prices. A JG secondary sale won't happened until says 4yrs later. It could be earlier if new buyers offer significantly higher price for the existing owners. Or, existing owners have to exit somehow and sell withing the 4 yrs SSD period.
Two school of thoughts:
1. CCR is the super prime area. All other region's pricing have to take cues from how well connected it is to CCR. I.e. no other regions can exceed CCR in terms of pricing. Also, the better connected it is, the more superior it is. I.e. Bishan is more superior because it is better connected to CCR than Punggol.
2. Jurong is a super fast growth region and will grow faster than the rest of Singapore. In the best case scenario, it can even exceed other regions in terms of pricing. (i.e. challenging the proximity/connectivity value as mentioned above)
#1 is definitely true for me. As for #2, it has happened in the case of JG. Only people who believed strongly in #2 will buy JG. For those who are not, you perhaps do not believe in #2. For me, I will have to wait to see if JG is repeated in other new developments in Jurong.
THe Jurong story is not the first time such stories are being spinned.
I hope people can remember the Tampines/Pasir Ris stories told 1-2 decades ago, that time, people also believed that Tampines will be the next growth area. And it turned out, YES! Tampines did grow into an outstanding OCR town! With many BANKS and other financial institutions moving part of their lower value processes there.
Isnt this similar story to Jurong story ? Tampines even got identified industries some more - powerful ones - BANKS!
From the time the Tamp stories were told, did Tamp valuation went up ? Answer is YES! Thats why we are saying that Jurong valuation will go up from the current or from the time the stories were told. But did Tampines become a prime location on its own, valuation exceeding say Bedok or Bishan ? Answer is no, not in general.
DKSG
I did not mention anything about better buy. Rather, I'm trying to describe the drivers at a macro level behind the recent pricing on JG vs SV. The thing about property is that it is not really like a stock market where pricing is so transparent and dynamic. We can says buying this share vs this other share is a better buy becos both share and information are available at the same time. In theory we can discuss about it. But, in reality, we cant. Prices have changed and JG is no longer or easily available.
Valuation is by past transactions and the exact revaluation of JG will not happened until a new transaction of a JG happened. It will of course be positively increased by nearby condo's increasing prices. A JG secondary sale won't happened until says 4yrs later. It could be earlier if new buyers offer significantly higher price for the existing owners. Or, existing owners have to exit somehow and sell withing the 4 yrs SSD period.
Thas why, the best guage now is the movement in resale prices in Jurong. If resale prices quickly catch up with the recent launch, then there is a good chance the value of the Jurong MM increased pass it purchase price.
But if resale prices in Jurong didnt move more than the OCR index, that means only a handful is buying the Jurong story. Doesnt mean the story is not truth, it only means the increase in valuation (in most people's view) is muted.
Our Jurong MM buyer is playing on this 4-year no resale period to try to convince people that 4 years later, the price sure will exceed current price by a certain margin.
DKSG
Thas why, the best guage now is the movement in resale prices in Jurong. If resale prices quickly catch up with the recent launch, then there is a good chance the value of the Jurong MM increased pass it purchase price.
But if resale prices in Jurong didnt move more than the OCR index, that means only a handful is buying the Jurong story. Doesnt mean the story is not truth, it only means the increase in valuation (in most people's view) is muted.
Our Jurong MM buyer is playing on this 4-year no resale period to try to convince people that 4 years later, the price sure will exceed current price by a certain margin.
DKSG
Too early to tell who is the winner. No risk no gain. If a JG MM investors makes the best return, I salute their guts and foresight.
Too early to tell who is the winner. No risk no gain. If a JG MM investors makes the best return, I salute their guts and foresight.
Maybe I didnt communicate well. What I meant is at current prices, where people pay $1,6xx for Jurong MM and now Bishan/Thomson MM selling for $1,5xx, Bishan/Thomson, on hindsight, presents much better value.
Those Jurong advocate is extrapolating 10-15 years of whatever development, I cannot comment on that. Who knows what is going to happen in 10-15 years ?
If people pay $1,3xx psf for Tampines 10 years ago on the Tampines story, today, they are still trying to break even - this is a hypothetical statement, not referring to any actual PC in Tampines.
When a new PC sells at 40% more than its surrounding new PCs, we know something is not right.
When a PC is selling at a higher psf than another in a better location, we know somehting is not right.
DKSG
Regulators
03-10-13, 16:18
not about winner or loser, just a matter of jgateway being overpriced. at the end of the day, most residential areas in singapore will be developed with different areas holding different charms and appeal, but the fact remains that there are only certain areas demarcated as prime districts in singapore and if an OCR project is priced close to a prime district district property, alarm bells will be ringing and two questions will surface, whether the prime district properties are undervalued or the ocr property is grossly overpriced. Nobody is faulting the fact that some growth is taking place in jurong east and the lake district, and as DKSG has pointed out, such growth stories are heard everywhere in singapore and thus nothing new.
Too early to tell who is the winner. No risk no gain. If a JG MM investors makes the best return, I salute their guts and foresight.
Maybe I didnt communicate well. What I meant is at current prices, where people pay $1,6xx for Jurong MM and now Bishan/Thomson MM selling for $1,5xx, Bishan/Thomson, on hindsight, presents much better value.
Those Jurong advocate is extrapolating 10-15 years of whatever development, I cannot comment on that. Who knows what is going to happen in 10-15 years ?
If people pay $1,3xx psf for Tampines 10 years ago on the Tampines story, today, they are still trying to break even - this is a hypothetical statement, not referring to any actual PC in Tampines.
When a new PC sells at 40% more than its surrounding new PCs, we know something is not right.
When a PC is selling at a higher psf than another in a better location, we know somehting is not right.
DKSG
Then how should one see the prices of Tanah Merah, Hougang (Midtown Residence) and Bukit Panjang (Hillion Residence) vis-a-vis to JG?
I'm asking this question not meant to challenge you. Just curious...
Maybe I didnt communicate well. What I meant is at current prices, where people pay $1,6xx for Jurong MM and now Bishan/Thomson MM selling for $1,5xx, Bishan/Thomson, on hindsight, presents much better value.
Those Jurong advocate is extrapolating 10-15 years of whatever development, I cannot comment on that. Who knows what is going to happen in 10-15 years ?
If people pay $1,3xx psf for Tampines 10 years ago on the Tampines story, today, they are still trying to break even - this is a hypothetical statement, not referring to any actual PC in Tampines.
When a new PC sells at 40% more than its surrounding new PCs, we know something is not right.
When a PC is selling at a higher psf than another in a better location, we know somehting is not right.
DKSG
According to your theory, the further a property is away from central region, the price will be lower regardless of what amenities or district. And thats perhaps the reason why you KPKB when J Gateway was sold out in one day and you start claiming that as a result of J Gateway lauch in Jul 2013, price of property from Jurong all the way to Orchard will rise.
However when government realease the Q3 (Jul to Sep) estimate, it clearly state that prices of RCR and CCR has fallen while OCR property (which include JLD) rises.
And when Capitaland launch SV, they launch it at 10-15% lower than SH and despite it being the same price at JG, it still left with around 150 units. And because SV was not sold out, you turn around and say that J Gateway is now even more overvalue.
Instead of always telling yourself that you are smart and all the J Gateway and OCR property buyers are stupid perhaps you might want to evaluation your (price)/(distant from central theory) because there are MANY MANY OCR projects that are currently selling at higher psf than CCR but much lower quantum of course.
And I am pretty sure if government announce tomorrow that they are going to build 5 malls, 2 hospital, 1 hotels, 3 high rise office buildings, world class tourist attraction and new MRT line at Bishan, I am sure you will be the first one to shout bishan HUAT AH.
You have the right to like Bishan The Sail or whatever, but if they are not performing, please dont call OCR property buyer as stupid crazy trying to defend their over priced purchase.
Just curious, if you see someone living in HDB driving a bigger car than you, does it make you feel uncomfortable?
You have the right to like Bishan The Sail or whatever, but if they are not performing, please dont call OCR property buyer as stupid crazy trying to defend their over priced purchase.
Just curious, if you see someone living in HDB driving a bigger car than you, does it make you feel uncomfortable?
Again, trying to provoke other people in Jurong.
We are not talking about JURONG in general. We are talking about the Jurong buyers who paid $16xx, $17xx psf! This means we are only talking about 30 people ?
The rest of the Jurong people who bought at 40% less are smart! In fact, they HUAT! Once prices start to move closer to the $1,6xx.
Never in any of our posts we say people are stupid or crazy, please dont insinuate this kinda feelings in people. Everyone who has the ability to buy property are smart. A little bit of judgement differences and errors does not make a person "crazy or stupid".
Also, nothing wrong with overpaying for properties. But if overpay still dont know, then got problem!
DKSG
Again, trying to provoke other people in Jurong.
We are not talking about JURONG in general. We are talking about the Jurong buyers who paid $16xx, $17xx psf! This means we are only talking about 30 people ?
The rest of the Jurong people who bought at 40% less are smart! In fact, they HUAT! Once prices start to move closer to the $1,6xx.
Never in any of our posts we say people are stupid or crazy, please dont insinuate this kinda feelings in people. Everyone who has the ability to buy property are smart. A little bit of judgement differences and errors does not make a person "crazy or stupid".
Also, nothing wrong with overpaying for properties. But if overpay still dont know, then got problem!
DKSG
You mean you actually know that only 30+ unit at J Gateway is sold above $16xx psf and you go around telling the entire forum that J Gateway is $17xxpsf? Do you agree that your have overly exaggerating the prices of J Gateway to justify your argument that J Gateway buyer over paid for their purpose?
Have it ever occurs to you the those who paid $1700psf for higher floor units are perhaps those who want to buy the best unit and they are not concern about making money? And why choose to talk about J Gateway when there are those who pay $25xxpsf for Echelon, or over $3000psf for marina bay LH property?
Perhaps you might want to start reading from the beginning of of thread. It might help you to recall what you wrote.
Again let not forget about that in your eye, Jurong will always be Jurong and that is an example of worst street.
You mean you actually know that only 30+ unit at J Gateway is sold above $16xx psf and you go around telling the entire forum that J Gateway is $17xxpsf? Do you agree that your have overly exaggerating the prices of J Gateway to justify your argument that J Gateway buyer over paid for their purpose?
Have it ever occurs to you the those who paid $1700psf for higher floor units are perhaps those who want to buy the best unit and they are not concern about making money? And why choose to talk about J Gateway when there are those who pay $25xxpsf for Echelon, or over $3000psf for marina bay LH property?
Perhaps you might want to start reading from the beginning of of thread. It might help you to recall what you wrote.
Again let not forget about that in your eye, Jurong will always be Jurong and that is an example of worst street.
We are not talking about why people overpaid. You are always trying to provoke people's sentiments.
If people overpay and they know and they want it that way, then it is ok.
Yet, you want to provoke their emotions to say that others say those who overpaid are stupid.
No one is stupid, as long as they know what they are doing.
DKSG
We are not talking about why people overpaid. You are always trying to provoke people's sentiments.
If people overpay and they know and they want it that way, then it is ok.
Yet, you want to provoke their emotions to say that others say those who overpaid are stupid.
No one is stupid, as long as they know what they are doing.
DKSG
You are right no one is stupid, they can always read back what you wrote 2 months ago.
Some say : Jurong will always be Jurong
Some say : anyone got money will move out of jurong
some say : that Jurong price will remain the low if price of their eastern neighbor doesnt rise
Some say : futuer of Jurong depend on how well other district are doing.
Personally i believe these people comments are right. Jurong is just a heavy industrial estate!
You are right no one is stupid, they can always read back what you wrote 2 months ago.
Some say : Jurong will always be Jurong
Some say : anyone got money will move out of jurong
some say : that Jurong price will remain the low if price of their eastern neighbor doesnt rise
Some say : futuer of Jurong depend on how well other district are doing.
Again, trying to provoke other people in Jurong.
We are not talking about JURONG in general. We are talking about the Jurong buyers who paid $16xx, $17xx psf! This means we are only talking about 30 people ?
The rest of the Jurong people who bought at 40% less are smart! In fact, they HUAT! Once prices start to move closer to the $1,6xx.
Never in any of our posts we say people are stupid or crazy, please dont insinuate this kinda feelings in people. Everyone who has the ability to buy property are smart. A little bit of judgement differences and errors does not make a person "crazy or stupid".
Also, nothing wrong with overpaying for properties. But if overpay still dont know, then got problem!
DKSG
So excluding the 30 odd people who pay 16xx,17xx, is JG still overpriced as compared to SV?
So excluding the 30 odd people who pay 16xx, 17xx, has future price 10 years been captured in the remaining units?
You are right no one is stupid, they can always read back what you wrote 2 months ago.
Some say : Jurong will always be Jurong
Some say : anyone got money will move out of jurong
some say : that Jurong price will remain the low if price of their eastern neighbor doesnt rise
Some say : futuer of Jurong depend on how well other district are doing.
Thanks for the summary! Which of these statements are not basic property investment statements? Can always apply to any location. Orchard will always be Orchard, more expensive than Newton. Anyone who can afford comfortably will choose to stay in Queenstown compared to Jurong. Jurong prices will depends on other locations, prices generally move in tandem, when they are out of tandem, there are buying opportunities (of the cheaper ones, not the more expensive ones). Future of Jurong depends on other locations --> this one you must think yourself what it means, I decide not to educate you further. DKSG
So excluding the 30 odd people who pay 16xx,17xx, is JG still overpriced as compared to SV?
So excluding the 30 odd people who pay 16xx, 17xx, has future price 10 years been captured in the remaining units?
For those who paid $1,3xx psf when neighbouring Jurong PCs sold for $1,1xx-$1,2xx, I think that is decent value, got chance to sell for more than $1,450 in future.
DKSG
Thanks for the summary! Which of these statements are not basic property investment statements? Can always apply to any location. Orchard will always be Orchard, more expensive than Newton. Anyone who can afford comfortably will choose to stay in Queenstown compared to Jurong. Jurong prices will depends on other locations, prices generally move in tandem, when they are out of tandem, there are buying opportunities (of the cheaper ones, not the more expensive ones). Future of Jurong depends on other locations --> this one you must think yourself what it means, I decide not to educate you further. DKSG
I can't recall anyone here quoting bishan sky habitat when they want to sell j gateway. But I certainly hear many people singing about j gateway to sell sky vue. And I can't recall clementi trillinq selling many units but j gateway was sold out in one day.
Perhaps the table has turned juong might be taking the lead and that's why you are spending so much time and effort trying to talk down its value without much success.
Basic property investment statement? You mean property 101?
Not really leh I already told you many OCR property psf already higher than ccr. Why can't you accept the fact and move on what must keep kpkb like a cry baby?
I can't recall anyone here quoting bishan sky habitat when they want to sell j gateway. But I certainly hear many people singing about j gateway to sell sky vue. And I can't recall clementi trillinq selling many units but j gateway was sold out in one day.
Perhaps the table has turned juong might be taking the lead and that's why you are spending so much time and effort trying to talk down its value without much success.
Basic property investment statement? You mean property 101?
Not really leh I already told you many OCR property psf already higher than ccr. Why can't you accept the fact and move on what must keep kpkb like a cry baby?
Jurong take a lead in price ?! A laughing stock statement!
It only means those who paid $1,6xx-$1,7xx for Jurong took a lead to become the Carrot Head!
When Orchard is lower price than Newton, most people know its time to sell Newton and move to Orchard.
Why people cannot accept they fact that they bought Jurong at $1,6xx-$1,7xx and then weeks later, Bishan/Thomson selling for $1,4xx-$1,5xx.
Jurong and Bishan/Thomson same price!!!
But no worries la! Like many people say, even at $1,7xx, wait long also can make some money.
DKSG
Jurong take a lead in price ?! A laughing stock statement!
It only means those who paid $1,6xx-$1,7xx for Jurong took a lead to become the Carrot Head!
When Orchard is lower price than Newton, most people know its time to sell Newton and move to Orchard.
Why people cannot accept they fact that they bought Jurong at $1,6xx-$1,7xx and then weeks later, Bishan/Thomson selling for $1,4xx-$1,5xx.
Jurong and Bishan/Thomson same price!!!
But no worries la! Like many people say, even at $1,7xx, wait long also can make some money.
DKSG
If you are comparing new launch MM to ols apartment newton is already more expensive than orchard so what nonsense are you talking about.
Since when did j gateway has to depend on other district to sell. Its more like sky vue fans like you who need to use j gateway price to justify the value of bishan. Then again it didn't sell all units.
And why would j gateway owner cares about what bishan is doing. You should be asking what sky habitat owners are feeling about SV pricing. E,g of how they got screwed for buying bishan
If you are comparing new launch MM to ols apartment newton is already more expensive than orchard so what nonsense are you talking about.
Since when did j gateway has to depend on other district to sell. Its more like sky vue fans like you who need to use j gateway price to justify the value of bishan. Then again it didn't sell all units.
And why would j gateway owner cares about what bishan is doing. You should be asking what sky habitat owners are feeling about SV pricing. E,g of how they got screwed for buying bishan
If you can understand how the SH buyers feel screwed, how come you cannot understand how the Jurong MM buyers at $1,7xx feel ?
But we all know you understand, that is the rationale and motivations for these posts.
Jurong MM at $1,7xx, classic !
DKSG
If you can understand how the SH buyers feel screwed, how come you cannot understand how the Jurong MM buyers at $1,7xx feel ?
But we all know you understand, that is the rationale and motivations for these posts.
Jurong MM at $1,7xx, classic !
DKSG
J gateway was sold out in less than 24 hours, sky habitat has about 60% unsold units after almost 500 days since launch.
Do you not know how to tell th difference?
Seahill OCR $19xx psf. Echelon $25xx psf. all leasehold more expensive than some orchard apartment. Those are classic too I presume?
Excuse me, sold out don't mean anything really. Do be careful about drawing the wrong conclusions. Sold out can be simply due to sister company, related parties, agents etc buying them and putting them for sub sale or resale after SSD lock in period. Its psychological as the reference price is the original transacted price.
Between the 2, Sky vue is a relatively safer buy as it is lower than its peak neighbour. J gate is the peak right? No other higher reference price right?
Anyway the market can be illogical due to imperfect information. Many can claim to be right upon hindsight.
:2cents:
Sold out within 24 hours is good?
History told us that those got long queues ones, quickly sold out ones, most buyers will lose money in the future few years! :o
J gateway was sold out in less than 24 hours, sky habitat has about 60% unsold units after almost 500 days since launch.
Do you not know how to tell th difference?
Seahill OCR $19xx psf. Echelon $25xx psf. all leasehold more expensive than some orchard apartment. Those are classic too I presume?
Excuse me, sold out don't mean anything really. Do be careful about drawing the wrong conclusions. Sold out can be simply due to sister company, related parties, agents etc buying them and putting them for sub sale or resale after SSD lock in period. Its psychological as the reference price is the original transacted price.
Between the 2, Sky vue is a relatively safer buy as it is lower than its peak neighbour. J gate is the peak right? No other higher reference price right?
Anyway the market can be illogical due to imperfect information. Many can claim to be right upon hindsight.
:2cents:
for a project to be able to sell off all 730+ units in ONE DAY, it certainly means there are too many buyers and not enough units to go around. under such circumstance, it will be a seller markets. which will always be good for sellers.
When a project is 100% sold out, it also practically remove any risk of developer slashing price to clear stock, like what we see in D Leedon, Interlace and SH.
In terms of supply, right next to SV, there are still 2 or 3 plots of empty land for residential development, hence there will still be supply in the pipe line which will directly compete with SV and SH. And considering the $200psf premium capitaland has paid over the 2nd highest bidder to secure the site, one will have to wonder what happen if future site are sold at lower psf? Will future cheaper supply in the market further depress the price of SV? will this be a case of trying to catch the falling knife?
J Gateway one the other hand, has no such worries. There are only 1000 homes to be build WITHIN Jurong Gateway, with J Gateway 730 unis, the next project located right next to J Gateway will only have around 250units, which I am sure will be selling at much higher than J Gateway and this should give J Gateway a upward push in price.
And lastly, once you factor in the number of new jobs that are going to move into JLD, its pretty much a no brainer from an investment point of view, which project has got more potential
And lets not forget Bishan selling point is close to the city, and if property within the city is falling, dont you think that Bishan property price will have to move in tandem?? I mean if a tenant can find an apartment in D9 or 10 at the same price as Bishan, why go all the way to bishan, which is pretty much a HDB estate.
Sold out within 24 hours is good?
History told us that those got long queues ones, quickly sold out ones, most buyers will lose money in the future few years! :o
old man history is longer, which era of property bubble are you talking about?
Which era of property bubble you are interested? History always repeat themselves, if you are ignorant, please go read up. The bubble duration may be different, but the losers always have common traits.... :o
They will always try to psycho themselves and the others that "this time it will be different!!!" :doh:
I am old enough to see to many of such people and cases... Sad indeed. These people just never learn! :ashamed1:
old man history is longer, which era of property bubble are you talking about?
Regulators
04-10-13, 00:21
Are you trying to imply that those who manage to secure a unit at jgateway have struck gold? :doh: :doh:
When a project gets sold out fast, the people to applaud are not the buyers, but the agents who have made all that possible with their superb marketing and balloting system and the hype they have created. With jurong east having their first new condo in years and with the jld plan, it is just the perfect combination for the developer to make a huge windfall from goonies like you. :doh:
J gateway was sold out in less than 24 hours, sky habitat has about 60% unsold units after almost 500 days since launch.
Do you not know how to tell th difference?
Seahill OCR $19xx psf. Echelon $25xx psf. all leasehold more expensive than some orchard apartment. Those are classic too I presume?
proud owner
04-10-13, 01:32
See, many people really make the mistake in property investment. Look for a place with lots of land nearby to invest because there is growth and future developments nearby? :doh:
If this is the case, might as well buy in Johor, Kuantan or Tregganu, lots of empty land to further develop! Will you make money investing in property in those places like that?
The whole of London is really not big, but the property prices in Zone 1 to Zone 4 can be >10x !!! :scared-1:
Mind you, London has 1 of the most comprehensive train system running from Zone 1 to Zone 4 accompanied with Park-and-Ride in the outer Zones! It will be the same for Singapore sooner or later: Zone 1 = CCR, Zone 4 = OCR!
Let's see, Jurong $2000 psf, Orchard $20,000 psf? Will we see that in next 10 years?
Now Jurong $1500 psf, Orchard $3000 psf average. Well, looks like Orchard has a lot of upside potential compared to Jurong!
my comments are strictly for Bishan and JLD...
proud owner
04-10-13, 01:38
Maybe I didnt communicate well. What I meant is at current prices, where people pay $1,6xx for Jurong MM and now Bishan/Thomson MM selling for $1,5xx, Bishan/Thomson, on hindsight, presents much better value.
Those Jurong advocate is extrapolating 10-15 years of whatever development, I cannot comment on that. Who knows what is going to happen in 10-15 years ?
If people pay $1,3xx psf for Tampines 10 years ago on the Tampines story, today, they are still trying to break even - this is a hypothetical statement, not referring to any actual PC in Tampines.
When a new PC sells at 40% more than its surrounding new PCs, we know something is not right.
When a PC is selling at a higher psf than another in a better location, we know somehting is not right.
DKSG
a friend of mine bought Ardmore II during launch at about 2500 psf ..
hey to date ... it hasn't really moved much ...
proud owner
04-10-13, 01:44
Sold out within 24 hours is good?
History told us that those got long queues ones, quickly sold out ones, most buyers will lose money in the future few years! :o
you mean like the one in Bedok ?
where someone posted pictures and all of Laguna ?
was it sold out within 24 hr ?
will laguna lose money ?
When eCo was launch around Q3/Q4 of 2012, URA data shows the prices were already in the region of $13xx to $14xx psf for a small unit (of about 549 sqf).
When Urban Vista was launch in March this year (I can still remember at that time Felicia Chin was appearing on our TV screens almost every two to three minutes), URA data shows prices achieved are in the region of $15xx even for non-MM units. And mind you, Urban Vista is very near to the MRT tracks.
Yes, there were grumblings about how expensive they are and yet there seems to be an air of acceptance that these prices are ok. A certain forumer even said, and I quote: "Just ask yourself if you can imagine Tenah Merah studio going for $1,850 3-4 years from now? For me, I can even squeeze out any imagination that this will happen."
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=15720&page=50
Investors who are buying condos at Tanah Merah are probably looking at a potential tenant pool that includes Changi Business Park. It also enjoys direct mrt connection to the airport and 20 to 25 mins mrt ride to raffles place / city hall. These are good investment merits and the prices are probably reflecting that. But CBP is also not new and has been around even before eCo was launched.
So if that gentleman can imagine a TM studio condo hitting $1850 psf in 3 to 4 yrs down the road, may I ask aloud, why JG, with the JLD potential, cannot hit $1850 as well?? And JG, like eCo and UV, is 20 to 25 mins to raffles place by mrt, plus close proximity to a number of institutions of higher education, biopolis area, and many other positives that Ringo has been mentioning??
Fast forward to four months after Urban Vista was launch, we now know JG was sold for prices around the same level as Urban Vista and eCo. And yet, there seems to be so much negative comments about JG, and to a certain extent, about Jurong.
So may I ask aloud again, if JG buyers now have to bang their heads because some projects at Bishan and Upper Thomson are going at $13xx to $14xx psf, then how about those buyers at UV and eCo? And how about buyers of Hillion, Midtown, Foresque, Seahill, Hillview Peak, the buyers who bought Centro Residence at $17xx to $19xx (and there are many transacted at $15xx psf range), the buyers who bought Watertown at $13xx to $16xx, and many other 99LH suburban projects with buyers who paid above what bishan and upper thomson are now asking?? And mind you, the vast majority of these transactions were made before JG was launched. So why only when JG is sold out, the "friendly" warnings start to come out??
I take a look at the URA data and noticed that a mm (474sqft) at JG is generally selling at ard 760k on average. (I'm not going to quote those 8xxk mm). In order to make a decent profit, one has to sell at least $960k (not forgetting haven't deduct bank penalty, lawyer fee, agent fee, stamp duty etc)
This means that JG buyers has to sell at ard 2025psf.
If you think got such people buy JG from you at this price, then there's no need to debate anymore.
DKGS, pls save the trouble convincing the rest. Better time could be spent on other things. As least some of us get it can already.
I do believe in JLD story, but it could be a costly one.
I take a look at the URA data and noticed that a mm (474sqft) at JG is generally selling at ard 760k on average. (I'm not going to quote those 8xxk mm). In order to make a decent profit, one has to sell at least $960k (not forgetting haven't deduct bank penalty, lawyer fee, agent fee etc)
This means that JG buyers has to sell at ard 2025psf.
If you think got such people buy JG from you at this price, then there's no need to debate anymore.
DKGS, pls save the trouble convincing the rest. Better time could be spent on other things. As least some of us get it can already.
I do believe in JLD story, but it could be a costly one.
Your rationalization should also apply to many other projects, not just JG.
Your rationalization should also apply to many other projects, not just JG.
Yes I agree and I know not every project worth buying.
JG is just a classic example.
4 Key areas mentioned
http://www.ura.gov.sg/uol/master-plan/View-Master-Plan/master-plan-2008/Growth-Area.aspx
I take a look at the URA data and noticed that a mm (474sqft) at JG is generally selling at ard 760k on average. (I'm not going to quote those 8xxk mm). In order to make a decent profit, one has to sell at least $960k (not forgetting haven't deduct bank penalty, lawyer fee, agent fee, stamp duty etc)
This means that JG buyers has to sell at ard 2025psf.
If you think got such people buy JG from you at this price, then there's no need to debate anymore.
DKGS, pls save the trouble convincing the rest. Better time could be spent on other things. As least some of us get it can already.
I do believe in JLD story, but it could be a costly one.
This apply to all MM apartment regardless of location. Capital gain is absolute terms are generally lower for MM due to its size, but it offer low cash outlay, higher rental yield and more important, its affordable for those who are buying their first investment property or those who are marginalized by CMs.
Dont always think about MM vs say 3 or 4 Bedder, instead one should look at keeping money in the bank vs buying MM because quantum is now a big concern due to cooling measures.
When eCo was launch around Q3/Q4 of 2012, URA data shows the prices were already in the region of $13xx to $14xx psf for a small unit (of about 549 sqf).
When Urban Vista was launch in March this year (I can still remember at that time Felicia Chin was appearing on our TV screens almost every two to three minutes), URA data shows prices achieved are in the region of $15xx even for non-MM units. And mind you, Urban Vista is very near to the MRT tracks.
Yes, there were grumblings about how expensive they are and yet there seems to be an air of acceptance that these prices are ok. A certain forumer even said, and I quote: "Just ask yourself if you can imagine Tenah Merah studio going for $1,850 3-4 years from now? For me, I can even squeeze out any imagination that this will happen."
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=15720&page=50
Investors who are buying condos at Tanah Merah are probably looking at a potential tenant pool that includes Changi Business Park. It also enjoys direct mrt connection to the airport and 20 to 25 mins mrt ride to raffles place / city hall. These are good investment merits and the prices are probably reflecting that. But CBP is also not new and has been around even before eCo was launched.
So if that gentleman can imagine a TM studio condo hitting $1850 psf in 3 to 4 yrs down the road, may I ask aloud, why JG, with the JLD potential, cannot hit $1850 as well?? And JG, like eCo and UV, is 20 to 25 mins to raffles place by mrt, plus close proximity to a number of institutions of higher education, biopolis area, and many other positives that Ringo has been mentioning??
Fast forward to four months after Urban Vista was launch, we now know JG was sold for prices around the same level as Urban Vista and eCo. And yet, there seems to be so much negative comments about JG, and to a certain extent, about Jurong.
So may I ask aloud again, if JG buyers now have to bang their heads because some projects at Bishan and Upper Thomson are going at $13xx to $14xx psf, then how about those buyers at UV and eCo? And how about buyers of Hillion, Midtown, Foresque, Seahill, Hillview Peak, the buyers who bought Centro Residence at $17xx to $19xx (and there are many transacted at $15xx psf range), the buyers who bought Watertown at $13xx to $16xx, and many other 99LH suburban projects with buyers who paid above what bishan and upper thomson are now asking?? And mind you, the vast majority of these transactions were made before JG was launched. So why only when JG is sold out, the "friendly" warnings start to come out??
As I see it, this is going to be the trend because our government knows that they can make a lot more money by enhancing the value of leasehold 99 district rather than collecting stamp duties and property taxes from FH estate. And thats the reason why government is putting so much effort in developing OCR, expanding infrastructure, decentralizing schools and business activities, and freeing up or building more coastal land for development.
I would imaging that when the southern coastal land get developed, those sea facing development will perhaps one day be more expensive than D15 due to it being newer and also having a sea view without ECP noise, I am sure the same people in this forum is going start giving friendly warning.
At the end of the day, the value of the property is determined by the market, how much people are willing to pay or rent. Its not always determine by its history, the weight of the concrete or the quality of soil its being built on.
As I see it, this is going to be the trend because our government knows that they can make a lot more money by enhancing the value of leasehold 99 district rather than collecting stamp duties and property taxes from FH estate. And thats the reason why government is putting so much effort in developing OCR, expanding infrastructure, decentralizing schools and business activities, and freeing up or building more coastal land for development.
I would imaging that when the southern coastal land get developed, those sea facing development will perhaps one day be more expensive than D15 due to it being newer and also having a sea view without ECP noise, I am sure the same people in this forum is going start giving friendly warning.
At the end of the day, the value of the property is determined by the market, how much people are willing to pay or rent. Its not always determine by its history, the weight of the concrete or the quality of soil its being built on.
Dont ever believe that proeprty value is not always determined by the location! How many times experts all over chanted "Location! Location! Location!"
Every one can imagine one day Tanah Merah will reach $1,850 psf! But wait, even with that kinda of imagination, Jurong will still be $1,7xx psf! And that is for many years later!
What this means is the many years of price escalation and potential of Jurong has been factored in the developers' selling price when they sell SOME MM units for $1,6xx-$1,7xx!
DKSG
Dont ever believe that proeprty value is not always determined by the location! How many times experts all over chanted "Location! Location! Location!"
Every one can imagine one day Tanah Merah will reach $1,850 psf! But wait, even with that kinda of imagination, Jurong will still be $1,7xx psf! And that is for many years later!
What this means is the many years of price escalation and potential of Jurong has been factored in the developers' selling price when they sell SOME MM units for $1,6xx-$1,7xx!
DKSG
LLL is perhaps one of the most misused terms in property. Many con artist would like to make you think that everywhere within CCR are of superior location sure make money, even if it mean locating next to big traffic junction, back alley or next to a big chinese temple. On the other hand anything that is located outside CCR LLL doesnt apply.
This is as good as saying anybody who wear armani cloths will look handsome and anyone who where g2000 will look stupid.
LLL is perhaps one of the most misused terms in property. Many con artist would like to make you think that everywhere within CCR are of superior location sure make money, even if it mean locating next to big traffic junction, back alley or next to a big chinese temple. On the other hand anything that is located outside CCR LLL doesnt apply.
This is as good as saying anybody who wear armani cloths will look handsome and anyone who where g2000 will look stupid.
This sums up your belief. You totally dismissed the LLL theory in order for a fast growth Jurong story to stand. Interesting for me, because in an way, a growth story is an LLL story as well.
I take a look at the URA data and noticed that a mm (474sqft) at JG is generally selling at ard 760k on average. (I'm not going to quote those 8xxk mm). In order to make a decent profit, one has to sell at least $960k (not forgetting haven't deduct bank penalty, lawyer fee, agent fee, stamp duty etc)
This means that JG buyers has to sell at ard 2025psf.
If you think got such people buy JG from you at this price, then there's no need to debate anymore.
DKGS, pls save the trouble convincing the rest. Better time could be spent on other things. As least some of us get it can already.
I do believe in JLD story, but it could be a costly one.
My sentiments exact. Jgateway hv to sell ard $1900-$2000psf in order to earn a decent profit. If I am a potential buyer, I will ask myself :"If I buy at $1900psf today, will I be able to sell at $2200psf in the future?
Regulators
04-10-13, 11:08
Even at $1900psf, those who bought MM at $1700psf earn less than $100k after 4 long years. Question is who in the right frame of mind would pay $900k for a 474sqft unit in jurong four years later?
My sentiments exact. Jgateway hv to sell ard $1900-$2000psf in order to earn a decent profit. If I am a potential buyer, I will ask myself :"If I buy at $1900psf today, will I be able to sell at $2200psf in the future?
Even at $1900psf, those who bought MM at $1700psf earn less than $100k after 4 long years. Question is who in the right frame of mind would pay $900k for a 474sqft unit in jurong four years later?
lets assume ppty booms 4 yrs later, easily for Jgateway to selling at $1900psf, earning the $100k profit. But tat would means tat other OCR project owners who bought at ard $1200- $1400psf will earn even more!
So may I ask aloud again, if JG buyers now have to bang their heads because some projects at Bishan and Upper Thomson are going at $13xx to $14xx psf, then how about those buyers at UV and eCo? And how about buyers of Hillion, Midtown, Foresque, Seahill, Hillview Peak
they should bang too, just at different degree :) mkt is at peak, developer is slashing new sale price, if you had waited, you could have bought it cheaper. nothing special about this. part and parcel about this pty cycle.
in 4yrs time, if jgway can make, all the above will make too, and all those bought before this peak will make more. it's your judgment on the risk, where you should take. take it on jgway, or other projects. JLD could fail just like pg21, whereas the rest of the island continues *organically*.
SG is too small. if market turns, all will turn. you won't see jgway outperform where the rest slump. When Singapore Inc. tanks, no place is spared, whatever grand JLD one wants to believe makes no difference. When Singapore Inc. booms, every region grows *organically*, all your pty holdings will make. If you believe in explosive growth in JLD and willing to take the risk, that's fine. Explosive growth of JLD depends entirely on SG Inc. itself doing well. I have no confidence in SG Inc. today, sorry to say that, so I have no confidence in JLD's great expectation. Risk is too high. Almost like gamble. In today's strange macro environment, other more "established" areas at worse can have organic growth that is more dependable.
LLL is perhaps one of the most misused terms in property. Many con artist would like to make you think that everywhere within CCR are of superior location sure make money, even if it mean locating next to big traffic junction, back alley or next to a big chinese temple. On the other hand anything that is located outside CCR LLL doesnt apply.
This is as good as saying anybody who wear armani cloths will look handsome and anyone who where g2000 will look stupid.
Ehh.. I still think LLL means a lot.
My sentiments exact. Jgateway hv to sell ard $1900-$2000psf in order to earn a decent profit. If I am a potential buyer, I will ask myself :"If I buy at $1900psf today, will I be able to sell at $2200psf in the future?
Then CCR will be $4000 psf? Even though the report says that CCR is down 0.x% but quantum must be taken into context. CCR those that drop are usually the higher quantum units. which are also bigger. u look at the MM in CCR like watermark, tribeca the psf is $2500 even LH like lumiere, icon etc.. the psf is $2000 for the studio now. if they are going at $1600 people will cheong it. give the choice or jurong or Tanjong Pargar / RV.
my 5c
Yes agree. Quantum is the key not psf $.
Then CCR will be $4000 psf? Even though the report says that CCR is down 0.x% but quantum must be taken into context. CCR those that drop are usually the higher quantum units. which are also bigger. u look at the MM in CCR like watermark, tribeca the psf is $2500 even LH like lumiere, icon etc.. the psf is $2000 for the studio now. if they are going at $1600 people will cheong it. give the choice or jurong or Tanjong Pargar / RV.
my 5c
tink CCR hard to chiong wor, quantum too big liao.
wat I mean is tat if one had bought something high, hard to earn much as compared to those who bought it low cos when the prices of yr ppty rises, other rise too.
Well said!!!!
My last purchase was in 2012 and paid 3% absd. After all the additional cm... Enough liao... Call it a day... Look for other greener pastures...
Diversification matters to me now... Hahahahaha
Don't need to put all eggs in 1 basket rite?
Property is now a gamble - agree👍
they should bang too, just at different degree :) mkt is at peak, developer is slashing new sale price, if you had waited, you could have bought it cheaper. nothing special about this. part and parcel about this pty cycle.
in 4yrs time, if jgway can make, all the above will make too, and all those bought before this peak will make more. it's your judgment on the risk, where you should take. take it on jgway, or other projects. JLD could fail just like pg21, whereas the rest of the island continues *organically*.
SG is too small. if market turns, all will turn. you won't see jgway outperform where the rest slump. When Singapore Inc. tanks, no place is spared, whatever grand JLD one wants to believe makes no difference. When Singapore Inc. booms, every region grows *organically*, all your pty holdings will make. If you believe in explosive growth in JLD and willing to take the risk, that's fine. Explosive growth of JLD depends entirely on SG Inc. itself doing well. I have no confidence in SG Inc. today, sorry to say that, so I have no confidence in JLD's great expectation. Risk is too high. Almost like gamble. In today's strange macro environment, other more "established" areas at worse can have organic growth that is more dependable.
walkthetiger
04-10-13, 13:44
[QUOTE=
SG is too small. if market turns, all will turn. you won't see jgway outperform where the rest slump. When Singapore Inc. tanks, no place is spared, whatever grand JLD one wants to believe makes no difference. When Singapore Inc. booms, every region grows *organically*, all your pty holdings will make. If you believe in explosive growth in JLD and willing to take the risk, that's fine. Explosive growth of JLD depends entirely on SG Inc. itself doing well. I have no confidence in SG Inc. today, sorry to say that, so I have no confidence in JLD's great expectation. Risk is too high. Almost like gamble. In today's strange macro environment, other more "established" areas at worse can have organic growth that is more dependable.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
Building collapsed, but my unit will be still okay as it got nothing to do with the collapse. Unbelieveable right?
My sentiments exact. Jgateway hv to sell ard $1900-$2000psf in order to earn a decent profit. If I am a potential buyer, I will ask myself :"If I buy at $1900psf today, will I be able to sell at $2200psf in the future?
logic a bit funny.
If person A buy at $1000psf, will he be able to sell to person B at $1300psf.
If person B buy at $1300psf, will he be able to sell to person C at $1600psf.
If person C buy at $1600psf, will he be able to sell to person D at $2000psf.
now working backwards.
if Person C dont think can sell to Person D at $2000psf, so he dont buy at 1600
if Person C dont buy at $1600psf, then person B wont buy at $1300psf.
if Person B dont buy at $1300psf, then person A wont buy at $1000psf.
like dat developer will not sell any property le.:beats-me-man:
Then CCR will be $4000 psf? Even though the report says that CCR is down 0.x% but quantum must be taken into context. CCR those that drop are usually the higher quantum units. which are also bigger. u look at the MM in CCR like watermark, tribeca the psf is $2500 even LH like lumiere, icon etc.. the psf is $2000 for the studio now. if they are going at $1600 people will cheong it. give the choice or jurong or Tanjong Pargar / RV.
my 5c
why people like to give these kind of fake choices?
like laoya phone vs smart fone at same price.
like mm CCR vs mm JG at same price.
these things got exist in first place?
logic a bit funny.
If person A buy at $1000psf, will he be able to sell to person B at $1300psf.
If person B buy at $1300psf, will he be able to sell to person C at $1600psf.
If person C buy at $1600psf, will he be able to sell to person D at $2000psf.
now working backwards.
if Person C dont think can sell to Person D at $2000psf, so he dont buy at 1600
if Person C dont buy at $1600psf, then person B wont buy at $1300psf.
if Person B dont buy at $1300psf, then person A wont buy at $1000psf.
like dat developer will not sell any property le.:beats-me-man:
hmmm ... shdnt work backwards when evaluating :p
cos $2000psf is definitely doable; it is only a matter of when.
when I asked if I buy at $1900psf today, will I be able to sell at $2200psf, Im looking at the potential in the mid term.
Of cos I noe tat even to aim $2500psf is closed one eye if we r looking at say 20 yrs later.
Agreed.
Building collapsed, but my unit will be still okay as it got nothing to do with the collapse. Unbelieveable right?
just as different parts of singapore increase price at different rates in boom times, different parts will decrease price at different rates in crash times.
so if my place drop 20%, while other place drop 30%, i am better off isnt it.
walkthetiger
04-10-13, 13:55
logic a bit funny.
If person A buy at $1000psf, will he be able to sell to person B at $1300psf.
If person B buy at $1300psf, will he be able to sell to person C at $1600psf.
If person C buy at $1600psf, will he be able to sell to person D at $2000psf.
It still works.....as we will see that transaction ( person C to D ) many many many years later lor....
Regulators
04-10-13, 13:56
Yes, someone who pays $1600psf-1770 for a condo in jurong n likening himself to buying a prime pty must be damn stupid...and ouch, did I hear u just slapping yourself in the face
LLL is perhaps one of the most misused terms in property. Many con artist would like to make you think that everywhere within CCR are of superior location sure make money, even if it mean locating next to big traffic junction, back alley or next to a big chinese temple. On the other hand anything that is located outside CCR LLL doesnt apply.
This is as good as saying anybody who wear armani cloths will look handsome and anyone who where g2000 will look stupid.
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