View Full Version : 'One condo unit - one parking space' approach not equitable
http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/sunday/premium/think/story/one-condo-unit-one-parking-space-approach-not-equitable-20130630
YOUR LETTERS
'One condo unit - one parking space' approach not equitable
Published on Jun 30, 2013
Last Sunday's article ("Parking crunch a headache for condos") highlights a fast-growing problem in Singapore, especially with new condominiums having fewer parking spaces for residents and visitors.
While it is logical and appropriate for condos facing a parking crunch to charge parking fees, this should not be done to supplement maintenance funds or to address deficits in operating funds.
The sole reason should be to manage parking demand.
In recent years, there have been rising differences in floor areas between units in each condo development.
The larger the unit, the higher the owner's contributions to the maintenance fund. The assumption being that there are more occupants in a larger unit, hence the greater use of common facilities such as parking spaces.
So to allocate one vehicle parking space to each unit is not equitable.
In larger cities in Britain, Canada and the United States, condo parking spaces are sold as separate titles.
Perhaps the authorities and developers here could study and implement such options.
Ong Tee Jin
Smaller units pay higher $psf than larger units. So how?
If the cost is not much more, might as well buy 2 smaller units in a condo rather than 1 big one.
Smaller units pay higher $psf than larger units. So how?
I think it should not be a matter of price psf you paid ... The rationale is on usage and consumption. pple who paid a much higher psf on smaller units have willingly subjected themselves to such pricing model .. Nothing much to complain. If just on pricing, the bigger units are also at a higher quantum...
walkthetiger
02-07-13, 13:33
http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/sunday/premium/think/story/one-condo-unit-one-parking-space-approach-not-equitable-20130630
YOUR LETTERS
'One condo unit - one parking space' approach not equitable
Published on Jun 30, 2013
Last Sunday's article ("Parking crunch a headache for condos") highlights a fast-growing problem in Singapore, especially with new condominiums having fewer parking spaces for residents and visitors.
While it is logical and appropriate for condos facing a parking crunch to charge parking fees, this should not be done to supplement maintenance funds or to address deficits in operating funds.
The sole reason should be to manage parking demand.
In recent years, there have been rising differences in floor areas between units in each condo development.
The larger the unit, the higher the owner's contributions to the maintenance fund. The assumption being that there are more occupants in a larger unit, hence the greater use of common facilities such as parking spaces.
So to allocate one vehicle parking space to each unit is not equitable.
In larger cities in Britain, Canada and the United States, condo parking spaces are sold as separate titles.
Perhaps the authorities and developers here could study and implement such options.
Ong Tee Jin
Isn’t this opening another money making opportunity for developers? It may look good as property price goes down for house, but many will end up pay more after factoring a car park lot.
Developer will say “thank you” to all.
For me is simple, if the project provides not enough car park lot, I will walk out of the showroom.
Agreed.
What is there to complain if you know & still want to buy a unit in condo with number of car park lots less than number of units?
You should:
1) don't buy such condo unit
2) complain to govt to close loop hole to allow developers to build condo with so few car park lots.
Isn’t this opening another money making opportunity for developers? It may look good as property price goes down for house, but many will end up pay more after factoring a car park lot.
Developer will say “thank you” to all.
For me is simple, if the project provides not enough car park lot, I will walk out of the showroom.
walkthetiger
02-07-13, 14:08
Agreed.
What is there to complain if you know & still want to buy a unit in condo with number of car park lots less than number of units?
You should:
1) don't buy such condo unit
2) complain to govt to close loop hole to allow developers to build condo with so few car park lots.
Agree too.
Such "idea" may spread like virus; very soon you will see it at EC, then slowly HDB may also follow.. everywhere…
In future, we may need to buy corridor and lift’s space and etc.....till no end....
actually I kind of agree with this article.
developers build too many units over available car parks to suit ppl's condo dream. in the past, a condo has virtually no "studios", and a 3 bd is 180 sqm. Car parks are always aplenty. Today, 180sqm can be made to 3 units, so the quantum is low and ppl can "afford". Only after ppl move in such projects they start to complain not enough car parks. If developer maintain 180sqm 3bd design, many ppl will not be able to afford condo anyway.
So instead of complaining, such condo buyers should tell themselves that you buy with your eyes open. This is the reason why units in this condo are affordable. And to practically solve the car park "problem" with this type of condos, selling car park separately is the most equitable and simple way.
Actually by pricing car park separately, each condo unit can be even more affordable, as the price of each can be reduced since the total revenue of the developer now includes sale of car parks.
The "car park entitlement" is a heritage of old condo designs, where it was truly meant to be "luxury" living, with spacious living and surrounding. This no longer applies in today's condo market, where "condo-living" becomes common commodity.
Agreed.
What is there to complain if you know & still want to buy a unit in condo with number of car park lots less than number of units?
You should:
1) don't buy such condo unit
2) complain to govt to close loop hole to allow developers to build condo with so few car park lots.
precisely...
walkthetiger
02-07-13, 14:31
actually I kind of agree with this article.
developers build too many units over available car parks to suit ppl's condo dream. in the past, a condo has virtually no "studios", and a 3 bd is 180 sqm. Car parks are always aplenty. Today, 180sqm can be made to 3 units, so the quantum is low and ppl can "afford". Only after ppl move in such projects they start to complain not enough car parks. If developer maintain 180sqm 3bd design, many ppl will not be able to afford condo anyway.
So instead of complaining, such condo buyers should tell themselves that you buy with your eyes open. This is the reason why units in this condo are affordable. And to practically solve the car park "problem" with this type of condos, selling car park separately is the most equitable and simple way.
Actually by pricing car park separately, each condo unit can be even more affordable, as the price of each can be reduced since the total revenue of the developer now includes sale of car parks.
The "car park entitlement" is a heritage of old condo designs, where it was truly meant to be "luxury" living, with spacious living and surrounding. This no longer applies in today's condo market, where "condo-living" becomes common commodity.
Sound liked the developers had solved a problem but create another problem called "not enough car park". Seem like you believed that people are pleading developer to build smaller with lesser car park lot, so that people can afford a PC.
If so, maybe when lesser people buy such project, developer will then understand better that such project will not sell. A solid hard and clear feedback to developers, if not enough car park space don't design so much units in the project.
To me, at minimum, one unit should come with one car park lot.
This is where our developer should learn from Malaysia counterpart.
Carparks are allocated (designated) to the unit, so no more nonsense. also, bigger unit (larger quantum) will have 2 allocated carparks, also no more nonsense.
...you believed that people are pleading developer to build smaller with lesser car park lot, so that people can afford a PC...
No that's not what I meant.
Developer exists to make money. car park is free, unit is not. therefore lesser car parks and more units are always preferred by developers.
It is the BUYER who needs to realize that the very fact that this condo is sold at this price is because developer manage to sell this number of units. You cannot claim innocent after buying and complain.
Market has proven most buyers ignore car park requirement and only look at the price (in fact, only look at the quantum, even ignoring the space), so developers are more than happy to sell you a condo with less car parks.
For example if JGateway units need to have sufficient car parks, it can only sell 400 units instead of 700. that means each unit price should be 75% higher than what it is now. Effectively you can see developer manage to achieve healthy profit margins despite high land cost.
This is why, for this type of developments, the only "equitable" solution to this problem and stop all arguments once and for all, is to sell car parks.
For truly luxury condos, car park is never a problem, so no need to do this. You do pay what you get.
walkthetiger
02-07-13, 14:51
This is where our developer should learn from Malaysia counterpart.
Carparks are allocated (designated) to the unit, so no more nonsense. also, bigger unit (larger quantum) will have 2 allocated carparks, also no more nonsense.
If buying of car park happened here, then funny things will happen at car park.... Maybe you will see “kisau” residents dinning at their lot, or convert it to something sillier.
walkthetiger
02-07-13, 15:03
Market has proven most buyers ignore car park requirement and only look at the price (in fact, only look at the quantum, even ignoring the space), so developers are more than happy to sell you a condo with less car parks.
Agree, for those who had blinding ignored car park matter before buying, they should not blame the developer now.
If you need a car-park lot and then avoid some projects.
URA is the culprit. It allows developments close to mrt to not provide 1-to-1 number of car park lots.
walkthetiger
02-07-13, 15:15
URA is the culprit. It allows developments close to mrt to not provide 1-to-1 number of car park lots.
:doh: Sure? Where can such info be found? Their website?
princess_morbucks
02-07-13, 15:24
This is where our developer should learn from Malaysia counterpart.
Carparks are allocated (designated) to the unit, so no more nonsense. also, bigger unit (larger quantum) will have 2 allocated carparks, also no more nonsense.
Long ago when in the condo where I lived, each unit was designated a carpark lot.
There was a neighbour who had 2 cars, and a neighbour within the same block without a car, and the latter allowed the former to use his lot.
:doh: Sure? Where can such info be found? Their website?
yup, google range-based car parking.
Smaller units pay higher $psf than larger units. So how?
That is private transaction between buyer and seller.
Larger unit pay more for sinking fund and maintenance which directly benefit all shareholder.
So how?
Agreed.
What is there to complain if you know & still want to buy a unit in condo with number of car park lots less than number of units?
You should:
1) don't buy such condo unit
2) complain to govt to close loop hole to allow developers to build condo with so few car park lots.
Agree - but this requires people to behave like grown ups, not crying children & take responsibility for their decisions.
I would also just walk away.
darkseed73
02-07-13, 16:26
No that's not what I meant.
Developer exists to make money. car park is free, unit is not. therefore lesser car parks and more units are always preferred by developers.
It is the BUYER who needs to realize that the very fact that this condo is sold at this price is because developer manage to sell this number of units. You cannot claim innocent after buying and complain.
Market has proven most buyers ignore car park requirement and only look at the price (in fact, only look at the quantum, even ignoring the space), so developers are more than happy to sell you a condo with less car parks.
For example if JGateway units need to have sufficient car parks, it can only sell 400 units instead of 700. that means each unit price should be 75% higher than what it is now. Effectively you can see developer manage to achieve healthy profit margins despite high land cost.
This is why, for this type of developments, the only "equitable" solution to this problem and stop all arguments once and for all, is to sell car parks.
For truly luxury condos, car park is never a problem, so no need to do this. You do pay what you get.
I don't like u keep using that term "TRULY LUXURY CONDOS" - I want to say WTF. So far only the hamilton scotts can let u park car inside your home and that is the best example of "buy" your own carpark lot which I assume it's "TRULY LUXURY" to you?
I agree with most bro/sis here by saying - walk away.
But don't come and tell me only "TRULY LUXURY CONDOS" have carpark lots for everyone or expect me to buy a condo without enough carpark lots.
darkseed73
02-07-13, 16:30
Actually since we on this topic, I just wanted to share with bro/sis.
I walk out of Treasure Trove becos of this reason, even though 99.9% thinks this project is a good buy and sure make money.
No. of Blocks / Storey / units : 14 blocks / 16 storeys / 882 units
No. of Car park lots : 2 level of Basement carpark with 809 Carpark lots & 4 Handicap lots
Im sure not all families own a car and some big families own more than 1 car.
Hence building too many carpark lots is a waste of space & resources.
so the best a developer could do is to remove carpark charges from the maintenance fee. Make it an optional expense, for eg:
Total units :500
Total carpark lots :350
Maintenance fee :
1 bedder : $150
2 bedder : $180
3 bedder : $210
4 bedder : $240
If need carpark lots, pay $80 per 1 lot, $150 for 2 lots.
fair to everyone, wun see non car owners parking bicycle, barang barang in carpark :D
thomastansb
02-07-13, 16:58
Yup. Rental is much better as well.
2 x 800k studio = 6k rent
1 x 1.6M 3 bedroom = 5k rent usually
If the cost is not much more, might as well buy 2 smaller units in a condo rather than 1 big one.
walkthetiger
02-07-13, 17:07
yup, google range-based car parking.
Revised Housing Developers Rules
"11. With the implementation of the RCPS for residential uses in Zones 1 and 2, the number of parking spaces provided may be lower than the number of housing units in some housing projects. To ensure that potential home buyers are aware of the lower car parking provision prior to purchase, the 2 Where the commercial and/or hotel components form more than 20% of the total GFA. Housing Developers Rules (HDR) will be revised to require developers who decide to provide less than the CPS under the RCPS for their projects, to provide information on the approved car parking provision to buyers upfront, i.e. before the issue of the Option to Purchase and payment of booking fee. The standard Option to Purchase and Sale and Purchase Agreement prescribed under the HDR will also be amended to include more information on the car parking provision."
Nice information....learnt something.
Seem like those residents have no case to complaint, unless they were not informed at all before buying the project comes with lesser than one car park lot.
For those project comes with enough, but resident still needs more lot, may really depend on the management preferred way of handling.
For luxury condos, there are usually 1.5 or more car park lots to 1 condo unit!
If car park lots not much more than condo units, how can the condo be "luxury"? Developers think rich people can pay so much for luxury condos but no money to buy more than 1 car? :banghead:
No that's not what I meant.
Developer exists to make money. car park is free, unit is not. therefore lesser car parks and more units are always preferred by developers.
It is the BUYER who needs to realize that the very fact that this condo is sold at this price is because developer manage to sell this number of units. You cannot claim innocent after buying and complain.
Market has proven most buyers ignore car park requirement and only look at the price (in fact, only look at the quantum, even ignoring the space), so developers are more than happy to sell you a condo with less car parks.
For example if JGateway units need to have sufficient car parks, it can only sell 400 units instead of 700. that means each unit price should be 75% higher than what it is now. Effectively you can see developer manage to achieve healthy profit margins despite high land cost.
This is why, for this type of developments, the only "equitable" solution to this problem and stop all arguments once and for all, is to sell car parks.
For truly luxury condos, car park is never a problem, so no need to do this. You do pay what you get.
But don't come and tell me only "TRULY LUXURY CONDOS" have carpark lots for everyone or expect me to buy a condo without enough carpark lots.
... maybe my wording is too harsh ... But reality is, entry level condos today do not provide enough car parks for the specific reasons that it can remain affordable to the buyer. And the mass maket has proven it sells. it will continue this way.
I dun "expect you to buy a condo without enough carpark lots", I expect someone need to be prepred to pay a lot more to have sufficient car parks. Goodwood Residence, I remember this one has 50% extra, this is what I call luxury. This kind of projects are designed with prestige in mind, therefore car park lots are specifically made extra. 20% extra is the bare minimum.
What I agree with this article is, be pragmatic, sell car park lots. Solve all problems later.
Autumnwinds
02-07-13, 21:04
I live in a suburban condo, I park 2 cars with no extra charge. My neighbour has 3, with no extra charge either. It isn't about truly luxurious or not, any development can choose to have more/less carpark lots.
Generally I would look for properties with minimum 1-1 ratio car park lots. But, as per what was said earlier, carpark lots should be tagged to share value, not psf.
It isn't about truly luxurious or not, any development can choose to have more/less carpark lots.
How old is your condo ? I bet it's not new.
Today's entry level condos cannot afford to build extra car park lots for all its units.
Because selling 500 units at 1mil each is far easier than selling 250 units at 2mil each. (let say the physical land size can only have 250 car park lots)
... I dun understand why ppl are so against selling it... Completely fair and transparent, pure investors can even save if not buying the lot.
Isn’t this opening another money making opportunity for developers? It may look good as property price goes down for house, but many will end up pay more after factoring a car park lot.
Developer will say “thank you” to all.
For me is simple, if the project provides not enough car park lot, I will walk out of the showroom.
Exactly! The authority made all kind of stupid rules except for issues where they should set a fair rule such as car park lot. Obviously they are on the same side as developer. The least they can do is set a min 1 unit to 1 lot rule
Autumnwinds
02-07-13, 21:32
How old is your condo ? I bet it's not new.
Today's entry level condos cannot afford to build extra car park lots for all its units.
Because selling 500 units at 1mil each is far easier than selling 250 units at 2mil each. (let say the physical land size can only have 250 car park lots)
... I dun understand why ppl are so against selling it... Completely fair and transparent, pure investors can even save if not buying the lot.
It isn't new, but there are still new developments with 1-1 car park lots. Not very hard to find. Though keeping quantum low is much easier to move off units, we as buyers should have checked and made sure before buying.
So to people who did not check and have been given a "surprise", congrats to them.:cheers4:
The biggest one they are on the same side of developers: Give free 10% saleable space for balconies to developers but yet developers can charge you for those balconies' space! Ops! :doh:
And the excuse is quite lame! :scared-1: I would expect developers to design what they deemed to be most suitable for the estate, and not all must surely have 10% balconies space to take full advantage of the free 10% space for balconies given by the authority!
Exactly! The authority made all kind of stupid rules except for issues where they should set a fair rule such as car park lot. Obviously they are on the same side as developer. The least they can do is set a min 1 unit to 1 lot rule
I believe it is the composition of people staying at the condo. Know of suburban condo who has 2-3 carparks to one unit which has no problem before but became a problem in the last 7 years as most of their kids have grown up and started to own cars. Another one in CBD which has too many carparks lots that they lease out the lots to fund the maintenance fee. Another relatively new city fringe condo which has 1.5 lots per unit and has quite a lot of empty lots as most of the people rented out their units but residents are skeptical of leasing lots due to security reason.
I live in a suburban condo, I park 2 cars with no extra charge. My neighbour has 3, with no extra charge either. It isn't about truly luxurious or not, any development can choose to have more/less carpark lots.
Generally I would look for properties with minimum 1-1 ratio car park lots. But, as per what was said earlier, carpark lots should be tagged to share value, not psf.
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