View Full Version : How to avoid SSD - by Proper-T
I have just learn something new in this forum.
According to proper-T, he mentioned that if you buy landed property as housing developer, you can actually buy and sell landed property without having to pay SSD.
Does anyone here know how to qualify as a "housing developers"?
Proper-T, can tell us more about this loophole? You mentioned quite a few, may we know which few you talking about?
Do you know that there are housing developers specialising in landed, especially detached houses. Quite a few were buying up detached in the past few years for re-sell. Looks like you are not even aware that housing developers don't need to pay SSD which means your 12% SSD or $1.68m may not be valid.
go read
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showpost.php?p=398420&postcount=1125
I have just learn something new in this forum.
According to proper-T, he mentioned that if you buy landed property as housing developer, you can actually buy and sell landed property without having to pay SSD.
Does anyone here know how to qualify as a "housing developers"?
Proper-T, can tell us more about this loophole? You mentioned quite a few, may we know which few you talking about?
Proper-T is correct. I am not surprised that you are ignorant on this, as like other aspects of landed save for the fact that landed prices will be CRASHING soon.
All the necessary information are clearly stated in IRAS website(kindly have some dignity and not ask me to provide the link here).
Landed developers are especially active in D15 lately. When you come across a brand-new landed for sale, didn't it cross your pea-sized brain that its a developer and not the home owner who is selling it?
To feed you some bone, 1 criterion to qualify is a complete demolition of the existing landed house before the new erection.
Proper-T is correct. I am not surprised that you are ignorant on this, as like other aspects of landed save for the fact that landed prices will be CRASHING soon.
All the necessary information are clearly stated in IRAS website(kindly have some dignity and not ask me to provide the link here).
Landed developers are especially active in D15 lately. When you come across a brand-new landed for sale, didn't it cross your pea-sized brain that its a developer and not the home owner who is selling it?
To feed you some bone, 1 criterion to qualify is a complete demolition of the existing landed house before the new erection.
Wah, another very defensive landed property owner here.
Since when did I ever say that proper-t was wrong. I was merely trying to find out more about the "loophole"
Since you are an expert in this area.
Based on the criteria you just siad, does it mean that any tom and dick can just register a company to buy a single plot landed property, demolish the entire structure, rebuild and resell, you will be automatically escape SSD? Is this correct?
Thank you for giving me the credit but this is old news already as pointed out by bullman. You can refer to hopeful's post if you are so interested to find out. I am surprised you didn't credit him for all his hard work and research. That's not very nice.
Thank you for giving me the credit but this is old news already as pointed out by bullman. You can refer to hopeful's post if you are so interested to find out. I am surprised you didn't credit him for all his hard work and research. That's not very nice.
Please focus on the subject of this thread, not bullman.
Is it true that any tom and dick can just register a company to buy a single plot landed property, demolish the entire structure, rebuild, resell, and you will be automatically escape SSD? Is this correct?
As for the transaction which you are doubting, do you happen to know who is the developer who bought the site for 12.8m, rebuild the entire site and sold it for 14m.
Surprise that u would waste ppl time here since u say u not interested in landed...those interested will then seek help and be helped.
Please focus on the subject of this thread, not bullman.
Is it true that any tom and dick can just register a company to buy a single plot landed property, demolish the entire structure, rebuild, resell, and you will be automatically escape SSD? Is this correct?
As for the transaction which you are doubting, do you happen to know who is the developer who bought the site for 12.8m, rebuild the entire site and sold it for 14m.
Its all in hopeful's post which he has kindly referred to this thread. Why should I spoon feed you? Are you mentally incapacitated?
princess_morbucks
19-05-13, 18:45
Sigh...... here is poor Ringo trying to ask for help only to get sarcastic replies.
Anyway thanks to those who answered, sincere or sarcastic, you have been helpful and I learned something new today. Thanks!
Nothing wrong with asking rude and mean people to go search for info for themselves. Its obvious what R33's intentions were when starting this thread. If you see the treatment and comments that R33 has dished out to others, I don't blame them. It would be a much more constructive and nicer forum without him around.
Its all in hopeful's post which he has kindly referred to this thread. Why should I spoon feed you? Are you mentally incapacitated?
How convenient it is to just divert my question to someone else.
Earlier when I question you about how much the developer might have put in to redevelope the property and you were saying that it could just be minor renovation because the property might still be in good.
But then someone say that the 1 criteria is that the property must be fully demolished and rebuild. So does that mean that you are just smoking your way around in this forum and bragging about things which you don't have a clue?
Interestingly there are others in this forum who believe you and start questioning me about the transaction I posted.
So you mention quite a few developers are using this to escape SSD. So can you name us one?
Let's not waste our tIme talking about proper-t or ringo33. We should focus on the subject of how to buy landed property and escape SSD.
buttercarp
19-05-13, 21:04
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=10208
See Question no 15
Q: If I have bought 4 old houses, demolished them and erected new housing units for sale, would I be exempted from SSD if I sell them within the 4 years holding period?
A: Licensed developers are exempted from SSD. Therefore, there is no requirement for them to apply for exemption. Non-licensed housing developers may apply for SSD remission only if they are registered companies or businesses, and lawfully carrying on the business of housing development. But if you are an individual redeveloping the residential properties, the exemption or remission from SSD does not apply to you.
Housing development refers to the building of new housing accommodation or total demolition of existing buildings and rebuilding of new housing accommodation. Developers who alter, repair, do additions to existing buildings or partially demolish and rebuild the residential properties will be liable to pay SSD when they sell these properties within the 4 years holding period.
Haha, Ringo.....Ringo.....I thought you are not interested in landed houses. Why suddenly wake up and ask so many questions? As you tend to ignore other people's questions, why shall people answer your questions? Go and search for the answers yourself. It is not that hard....:doh:
Let's not waste our tIme talking about proper-t or ringo33. We should focus on the subject of how to buy landed property and escape SSD.
princess_morbucks
19-05-13, 21:28
https://spring.ura.gov.sg/lad/ecoh/eservices/faqs.cfm
The above tells you how to go about applying for the licence.
Looks like our Ringo is going big time!
FTW, Ringo!
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=10208
See Question no 15
Q: If I have bought 4 old houses, demolished them and erected new housing units for sale, would I be exempted from SSD if I sell them within the 4 years holding period?
A: Licensed developers are exempted from SSD. Therefore, there is no requirement for them to apply for exemption. Non-licensed housing developers may apply for SSD remission only if they are registered companies or businesses, and lawfully carrying on the business of housing development. But if you are an individual redeveloping the residential properties, the exemption or remission from SSD does not apply to you.
Housing development refers to the building of new housing accommodation or total demolition of existing buildings and rebuilding of new housing accommodation. Developers who alter, repair, do additions to existing buildings or partially demolish and rebuild the residential properties will be liable to pay SSD when they sell these properties within the 4 years holding period.
If you buy just one house, will that qualify as housing development?
If you buy just one house, will that qualify as housing development?
Yah lor...suddenly so interested. Be nice and apologize to all the old birds in the landed forum. Maybe, they may take pity on you and tell you.
Yah lor...suddenly so interested. Be nice and apologize to all the old birds in the landed forum. Maybe, they may take pity on you and tell you.
Do you agree that for this transaction the seller might still make a profit?
Originally Posted by Ringo33
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Less than 2 years, 12% SSD = $1.68m + stamp duty $378.6K + 1% agent commission $140K
Total : $2.20m
Lost : ($1,000,000)
Do you agree that for this transaction the seller might still make a profit?
Stop changing subject lah, you want your answers, go kowtow to the landed experts.
So wat does 1 loss making txn prove? The entire landed segment going to crash? I can show you many condo txn in the red as well.
Stop changing subject lah, you want your answers, go kowtow to the landed experts.
So wat does 1 loss making txn prove? The entire landed segment going to crash? I can show you many condo txn in the red as well.
got many meh in the red meh? Office boy say only a few so don't anyhow say :tsk-tsk:
princess_morbucks
19-05-13, 22:17
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Less than 2 years, 12% SSD = $1.68m + stamp duty $378.6K + 1% agent commission $140K
Total : $2.20m
Lost : ($1,000,000)
How do you know it is the same unit?
got many meh in the red meh? Office boy say only a few so don't anyhow say :tsk-tsk:
No offence to condo owners but I went to the CCR txn thread and from Apr post until now, I already counted more than 10 and that is only for CCR.
No offence to condo owners but I went to the CCR txn thread and from Apr post until now, I already counted more than 10 and that is only for CCR.
dont change subject. This thread is about how to avoid SSD.
Stop changing subject lah, you want your answers, go kowtow to the landed experts.
So wat does 1 loss making txn prove? The entire landed segment going to crash? I can show you many condo txn in the red as well.
Do you think reno & minor A&A can qualify for SSD exemption?
3. It all depends on the condition they bought it in. Given the price psf of $1,741 they paid in 2011, its a good indication that the house was probably done up quite well. They may have only carried out some renovation or minor A&A which would not be much.
.
dont change subject. This thread is about how to avoid SSD.
Ahkongkid ask I must answer mah...
Have you kowtowed to the landed experts yet? Mebbe you can tell us whether you have got the answer to yr question.
Do you think reno & minor A&A can qualify for SSD exemption?
3. It all depends on the condition they bought it in. Given the price psf of $1,741 they paid in 2011, its a good indication that the house was probably done up quite well. They may have only carried out some renovation or minor A&A which would not be much.
Still gloating over that one transaction?
Since it pleases you so much, I will give you the point and even state that my statement was in contradiction to the SSD remission which incidentally was discovered by hopeful and not you. I am human after all and make mistakes.
It is quite hilarious seeing you even start a thread in my nick just to publicise that one incident, You must really want to win so bad.
It really doesn't matter to me if I am ridiculed because of that one slip-up. I readily admit my mistake and am ready to move on.
So what does this single victory earn you? One landed transaction which recorded a loss and that is going to prove that a land storm is coming?
Still gloating over that one transaction?
Since it pleases you so much, I will give you the point and even state that my statement was in contradiction to the SSD remission which incidentally was discovered by hopeful and not you. I am human after all and make mistakes.
It is quite hilarious seeing you even start a thread in my nick just to publicise that one incident, You must really want to win so bad.
It really doesn't matter to me if I am ridiculed because of that one slip-up. I readily admit my mistake and am ready to move on.
So what does this single victory earn you? One landed transaction which recorded a loss and that is going to prove that a land storm is coming?
aiyo, told you so many time dont anyhow post things which you dont understand, or act like you know so much. never listen. Still want to KPKB and talk like you know so much.
Check out your own post.
Lost? Yep, certainly describes you.
($1,000,000)? Are you sure?
Do you know that there are housing developers specialising in landed, especially detached houses. Quite a few were buying up detached in the past few years for re-sell. Looks like you are not even aware that housing developers don't need to pay SSD which means your 12% SSD or $1.68m may not be valid.
Do I know? heheh.
So, do you still think that the seller is making a profit from this deal? No wingtai dinner for super rich story please. Got enough of that already.
princess_morbucks
20-05-13, 10:46
Do you think reno & minor A&A can qualify for SSD exemption?
According to the link provided by buttercarp, the answer is NO.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=10208
Housing development refers to the building of new housing accommodation or total demolition of existing buildings and rebuilding of new housing accommodation. Developers who alter, repair, do additions to existing buildings or partially demolish and rebuild the residential properties will be liable to pay SSD when they sell these properties within the 4 years holding period.
According to the link provided by buttercarp, the answer is NO.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=10208
Housing development refers to the building of new housing accommodation or total demolition of existing buildings and rebuilding of new housing accommodation. Developers who alter, repair, do additions to existing buildings or partially demolish and rebuild the residential properties will be liable to pay SSD when they sell these properties within the 4 years holding period.
does anyone know if rebuilding a semi-D can be qualified as housing development?
So say a company manage to escape SSD, does "developer" needs to pay GST when they buy or sell?
princess_morbucks
20-05-13, 13:07
does anyone know if rebuilding a semi-D can be qualified as housing development?
So say a company manage to escape SSD, does "developer" needs to pay GST when they buy or sell?
Hi Ringo, remember a forummer called Secretariat who buys old house to rebuild and then sell?
He said he quit this forum but can be found in the renotalk.com forum under the name Lauer.
Perhaps you can pm him and let us know the outcome.
I have just learn something new in this forum.
According to proper-T, he mentioned that if you buy landed property as housing developer, you can actually buy and sell landed property without having to pay SSD.
Does anyone here know how to qualify as a "housing developers"?
Proper-T, can tell us more about this loophole? You mentioned quite a few, may we know which few you talking about?
Sure, you want to know an example. Go check out 59 Conway Grove developed by ECG Development. Bought in 2011 and just sold not too long ago.
Still gloating over that one transaction?
Since it pleases you so much, I will give you the point and even state that my statement was in contradiction to the SSD remission which incidentally was discovered by hopeful and not you. I am human after all and make mistakes.
It is quite hilarious seeing you even start a thread in my nick just to publicise that one incident, You must really want to win so bad.
It really doesn't matter to me if I am ridiculed because of that one slip-up. I readily admit my mistake and am ready to move on.
So what does this single victory earn you? One landed transaction which recorded a loss and that is going to prove that a land storm is coming?
No worries at all buddy. Look at the number of idiotic mistakes that Ringo made with no apologies whatsoever. It takes a man to own up to his mistake. :cheers4:
So bullman and proper-t, thanks for your valuable contribution.
Could you guys also comment on how do one qualify to be a housing developer?
Does housing developer needs to pay GST for their sale and purchase?
And I presume that profit from disposal of property should also be taxable I presume?
No worries at all buddy. Look at the number of idiotic mistakes that Ringo made with no apologies whatsoever. It takes a man to own up to his mistake. :cheers4:
Thanks bullman, your support is greatly appreciated!
princess_morbucks
20-05-13, 23:48
www.redas.com/html/ePropFAQs/development_license.html
: Who can be a developer?
Any individual, group of persons, society, or company can be a housing developer if they engages in or undertakes housing development.
However, a bank or an insurance company is not included if it only lends or provides money for housing development.
www.redas.com/html/ePropFAQs/development_license.html (http://www.redas.com/html/ePropFAQs/development_license.html)
: Who can be a developer?
Any individual, group of persons, society, or company can be a housing developer if they engages in or undertakes housing development.
However, a bank or an insurance company is not included if it only lends or provides money for housing development.
other question
Does housing developer needs to pay GST for their sale and purchase?
And I presume that profit from disposal of property should also be taxable I presume?
princess_morbucks
21-05-13, 15:27
other question
Does housing developer needs to pay GST for their sale and purchase?
And I presume that profit from disposal of property should also be taxable I presume?
This website may be helpful.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=2328
For GST-registered businesses
Sale and lease of residential properties are exempted from GST (i.e. GST need not be charged).
Sale and lease of non-residential properties are subject to GST.
For properties that consist of both residential and non-residential portions, only the non-residential portion is subject to GST.
This website may be helpful.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page04.aspx?id=2328
For GST-registered businesses
Sale and lease of residential properties are exempted from GST (i.e. GST need not be charged).
Sale and lease of non-residential properties are subject to GST.
For properties that consist of both residential and non-residential portions, only the non-residential portion is subject to GST.
You are too nice to even entertain his questions.
Landed property development is a domain of high technical play with huge downsides if one makes a noobie mistake.
At least Ringo33 or hopeful and the likes are anytime better than this crazy man called blackjack21trader :P
At least Ringo33 or hopeful and the likes are anytime better than this crazy man called blackjack21trader :P
Heard blackjack21trader was admitted to IMH again, he is still currently fighting his multiple personalities.
Last heard from his personal assistant that he was viewing this thread and suddenly stood up from his chair and smashed the terminal onto the floor. He was screaming, " Why tell? Why tell? "..wonder what that means hmmmmmm...
Took the whole floor of workforce including 2 coffee aunties to pin him down on the floor, before someone was able to call the IMH ambulance. So the saying that a crazy man's strength is powerful is correct.
After making sure the crazy man is properly constrained. I took a look at this thread and would like to point out that although licensed developers are not subject to SSD, they are subjected to many regulations more restrictive than the SSD. Including a time period for them to unload the property.
You are too nice to even entertain his questions.
Landed property development is a domain of high technical play with huge downsides if one makes a noobie mistake.
Very glad you are still following this thread.
Got a quick question for you.
According to proper-T, he was saying that the below transaction could be sold by a developer, which doesnt need to pay GST, so he could still be making a profit.
do you think if it is a developer, who need to tear down the entire building, rebuild and (include adding a swimming pool), is still making a profit from this deal?
Jalan Sejarah Detached 7,352sqft
Bought : 2011-05-23 $1,741psf $12.8m
Sold : 2013-05-06 $1,904psf $14.0m
Less than 2 years, 12% SSD = $1.68m + stamp duty $378.6K + 1% agent commission $140K
Total : $2.20m
Lost : ($1,000,000)
Many hiddened costs, these could include surveys, finding sub-contractors that can be trusted and also good legal advisors. Many times, the costs could overrun and worse, the materials may be in shortages. Sometimes, you can also have uninvited guests entering your work site to scream at you. :(
Very glad you are still following this thread.
Got a quick question for you.
According to proper-T, he was saying that the below transaction could be sold by a developer, which doesnt need to pay GST, so he could still be making a profit.
do you think if it is a developer, who need to tear down the entire building, rebuild and (include adding a swimming pool), is still making a profit from this deal?
Don't forget the labor costs and project overrun costs.
Very glad you are still following this thread.
Got a quick question for you.
According to proper-T, he was saying that the below transaction could be sold by a developer, which doesnt need to pay GST, so he could still be making a profit.
do you think if it is a developer, who need to tear down the entire building, rebuild and (include adding a swimming pool), is still making a profit from this deal?
S$2million paper profits could easily be buried by the construction costs of a bungalow. When you do a complete rebuild, you need to lay pipes and wires and cables. This is the difficult part.
S$2million paper profits could easily be buried by the construction costs of a bungalow. When you do a complete rebuild, you need to lay pipes and wires and cables. This is the difficult part.
I mean you dun want to dig into some national treasure and then the whole project is stalled or worse, aborted.
The rest is like lego.
Good Luck.
Very glad you are still following this thread.
Got a quick question for you.
According to proper-T, he was saying that the below transaction could be sold by a developer, which doesnt need to pay GST, so he could still be making a profit.
do you think if it is a developer, who need to tear down the entire building, rebuild and (include adding a swimming pool), is still making a profit from this deal?
I agree that the mentioned transaction could be in the red. Not to forget that the profits in these projects are also used to support the backoffice at the HQ.
In Singapore, projects very easily get overrun due to the weather. Sometimes rain, sometimes hot. Sigh yo...a man who completes the project on time is a lucky man.
That is why my best advice is to wait for the landed to crash.
Good Luck.
If you want to be a good developer, make sure you employ project managers who are S4 Officers in SAF. Do not employ someone like blackjack21trader :(
If you want to be a good developer, make sure you employ project managers who are S4 Officers in SAF. Do not employ someone like blackjack21trader :(
Someone like blackjack21trader is more suitable for the position of CEO so as to pyscho all the workers or better still, the newspapers.
got many meh in the red meh? Office boy say only a few so don't anyhow say :tsk-tsk:
Thank you for remembering Office Boy's words.
DKSG
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